Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000007
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00:01 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:21 >>Guys there are some powerful, powerful verses that we've got 00:24 to look at in the Bible when we talk about the subject of love, 00:28 freedom, risk. 00:30 And really describe what happened--not only here on 00:32 planet earth but also what is taking place in the context of 00:36 heaven and the conflict that began there and is now come down 00:41 to this planet. 00:43 I'm thinking of Revelation chapter 12. 00:45 I'm thinking Ezekiel 28. 00:46 I know we've looked at some of these bible verses briefly. 00:49 But I think we really need to dig in. 00:51 We really need to find some of the key elements that are here. 00:55 >>Where do you want to start? 00:56 >>I think we should start in Revelation 12. 00:58 >>Alright, let's do it. 00:59 >>Not only because that is my favorite book of the bible--the 01:02 book of Revelation. 01:04 Revelation chapter 12 it basically lays out in verse 7 01:07 through 9 this war that broke out in heaven. 01:13 I'll just read the verses Revelation chapter 12:7-9 and it 01:16 says here "War broke out in heaven and Michael and his 01:19 angels fought with the dragon. 01:21 And the dragon and his angels fought but they did not prevail 01:25 nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 01:28 So that great dragon was cast out that serpent of old called 01:32 the devil and Satan who deceives the whole world. 01:36 He was cast to the earth and his angels were cast out with him. 01:41 >>How huge isn't' it? 01:44 >>Powerful verses. 01:45 >>So much there. 01:46 >>This brings together not only the fact that this--earth is 01:50 engaged in a war and a conflict but that this war actually began 01:52 in heaven. 01:54 This war isn't like the kind of wars we have today on planet 01:57 earth. 01:59 You know we have tanks and grenades and bombs and missiles 02:00 and machine guns this war is different. 02:04 This war is a war that can be described as political. 02:07 It is a war of words. 02:10 It's a war of ideas. 02:11 It's a conflict of principles. 02:14 In fact the bible describes that in many other places. 02:17 The principles and powers that are in conflict in relation to 02:22 not only heaven but the planet earth and what's going on in 02:25 this planet. 02:26 >>Ok James you're saying this is a political war and really 02:28 that's in the text. 02:30 >>Yes. 02:31 >>In chapter 12 verse 7 the first verse you read in 02:34 Revelation is says war broke out in heaven. 02:37 The Greek word that the apostle John chose to employ here guys 02:41 is polemos from which we get words--well first of all like 02:46 poles--like the North Pole, South Pole--two poles on a 02:49 battery a positive and a negative. 02:52 It's the idea of polemic. 02:55 It's the idea of two divided or opposite ends of a spectrum or 03:01 of ideas. 03:03 Polemos is a word from which we get words like politics. 03:06 When we witness a political battle in American 03:10 culture--political war. 03:12 >>Or any culture. 03:13 >>Or any culture at least now-a-days the opponents--you 03:16 don't find you know, Obama challenging the person who's 03:21 running against him to a dual or to a sword fight or even to an 03:26 arm wrestling match. 03:27 These guys don't engage in a physical battle. 03:31 When you watch a political war occur when the Presidential 03:35 debate for example was taking place. 03:36 Its two guys with suits and ties standing behind pulpits--behind 03:40 podiums. 03:41 And what are they shooting at one another? 03:43 >>Words. 03:45 >>Yeah words. 03:46 >>Ideas. 03:47 >>Ideas concepts and really those ideas and concepts come 03:48 down to something very basic. 03:51 Each of the opponents is basically representing what they 03:55 stand for and what they purported to bringing to the 04:01 people as a superior form of governance. 04:04 And then in our political system it always goes in the direction 04:08 of character assassination. 04:10 So the words that are being shot back and forth are words that 04:12 are claiming to represent--I'm representing myself as a 04:16 political candidate. 04:17 And this guy. 04:19 You don't want him governing because I'll tell you some 04:24 things about him and the effort is is lower the estimation of 04:27 the people's opinion in the opinion polls as we call them so 04:33 that the political war can be won by the opponent. 04:36 >>Smear campaign. 04:37 >>It's a smear campaign propaganda campaign and that's 04:39 what's going on here in the universe when the bible says war 04:42 or polemos broke out in heaven it means a political battle 04:48 erupted in the angelic community or the angelic society. 04:52 >>I want to just add something. 04:54 I love everything you said there and I think you did a very good 04:57 job articulating it. 04:58 Basically the two candidates or in this case the war that breaks 05:01 out between God and the dragon is two basic views of reality. 05:07 That's what the two--the two candidates see the world 05:11 differently and they're essentially saying my way of 05:14 viewing the world is a superior way to viewing the world then my 05:19 opponents. 05:21 So you have not just on issues but those issues are a 05:24 reflection of just totally different ways of viewing the 05:27 nature of reality and as we're gonna discover here the dragon 05:32 or Satan's view of reality--view of God is such that he sees God 05:37 as overbearing. 05:39 He sees God as controlling. 05:42 He sees God as exercising and unwarranted sovereignty and 05:45 control. 05:46 >>And restrictions. 05:48 >>And restrictions--exactly, so--so what we're gonna see here 05:50 is that the question at least in this particular political 05:53 debate. 05:54 This is an American political debate or another country's 05:57 political debate. 05:58 This is--The data over which they're debating here is the 06:02 nature of God's character and governance. 06:05 >>In the text itself before we move from Revelation 12--just 06:09 don't want to lose there's another word that is used in the 06:13 text that tells us the nature of this warfare. 06:17 War broke out in heaven, polemos. 06:20 But then in verse 9 it says that Satan deceives the whole world. 06:25 So the word deceives is employed. 06:27 Right? 06:29 >>Deception. 06:31 >>Yeah deception--this isn't --this isn't again--the devil 06:33 isn't sharpening a knife to attack. 06:36 He's not loading a gun to attack. 06:39 He's not shooting laser beams out of his fingertips. 06:41 >>Darth Vader like bzzzzz. 06:43 >>It's nothing like that--it's-it's deception. 06:46 He's spinning a web of ideas in order to catch his prey. 06:51 >>This is like a movie man it's like the original epic you know 06:54 like Lord Byron said truth is stranger than fiction. 06:56 It's just like this is real. 06:59 >>mhmmm. 07:00 >>And this is what happened when we were talking about in the 07:02 garden. 07:04 God created this world and gave it to mankind, Adam and Eve. 07:08 And as we read the account there in Genesis chapter 3 the 07:12 serpent, Satan, the devil came to Adam and Eve in the Garden 07:16 and started spinning these lies--trafficking these lies 07:19 about God--about his character. 07:21 Putting forth that God was restrictive--that God was 07:24 limiting their ability they would be like him. 07:27 And so this world became the center of the universe. 07:30 You read about this a little bit further here in Revelation 07:35 chapter 12 it talks about how the devil has come down unto 07:37 you--Whoa to the inhabitants of the earth and sea for the devil. 07:40 >>What verse? 07:42 >>Verse 12 of Revelation 12 for the devil is come down to you 07:45 having great wrath because he knows his time is short or he 07:48 has just a short time. 07:49 So in the controversy this earth has become the center because we 07:55 bought into the lie in the Garden of Eden. 07:57 We started to believe some of the things that the devil was 07:59 trafficking about God--about his character--about love--about 08:03 freedom--about the restrictiveness that Satan was 08:06 trying to project on the character of God. 08:08 >>There's a part of that verse you didn't read maybe on 08:11 purpose. 08:12 The first part of the verse or did you read it and I missed it 08:14 where it says therefore rejoice. 08:15 >>I skipped it. 08:16 >>Oh heavens and you who dwell in them which gives the cosmic 08:19 perspective. 08:20 >>Yes. 08:21 >>That is to say that--that. 08:23 >>Heaven is involved. 08:24 >>Yeah heaven is involved but it is not heaven as in stars and 08:27 suns and galaxies. 08:28 Heavens and you who dwell in them so the heavens as we talked 08:31 about in a previous conversation--the heavens are 08:33 populated. 08:34 And in this world is a theater and in this world something's 08:39 happening--there's a great controversy in the heaven's. 08:42 >>Are now rejoicing. 08:45 >>Populated heavens are rejoicing that Satan was cast 08:48 out of their realm. 08:49 But whoa to the inhabitants of the earth. 08:52 And they're still engaged in watching the great controversy 08:56 unfold. 08:57 So that one verse takes in heaven on earth, right? 09:00 The whole cosmic war between good and evil. 09:04 >>But I think it's really important here is we build this 09:06 theme and develop this theme to understand that it's not a 09:08 physical casting out that they're rejoicing over. 09:11 It is the casting out of the idea--the casting out of the 09:16 trafficking--the casting out of the misrepresentation of the 09:19 character of God. 09:20 The heavens are rejoicing not because the devil's come down to 09:24 this earth and they're-oh thank goodness he's down there. 09:26 >>Geographically he's been removed. 09:29 >>Right. 09:30 >>Yeah. 09:31 >>They're rejoicing because it's clear. 09:32 It--something has become clear in their minds and hearts about 09:34 his accusations. 09:36 >>Concerning the vote has swung. 09:38 >>That's a great way to say it. 09:40 >>Yes, yes. 09:41 >>The commercial goes you know this message has been approved 09:43 by God. 09:44 [Laughter] 09:45 >>Those commercials have been persuasive and the popular vote 09:48 has. 09:49 >>Now that it's moved from heaven to earth to follow the 09:52 metaphor of politics straight through. 09:54 The popular vote has been won in the heavenly society and now 09:58 there's a voting booth on earth. 10:00 And it's called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10:02 >>Ooooh I like that. 10:04 >>And they're invited to the voting booth. 10:06 Adam and Eve--humanity is invited to vote. 10:08 >>There's more than one candidate and so this is the 10:12 drama. 10:14 >>Could we then--Revelation 12 is built very much on Genesis 3 10:17 because you have the dragon and the serpent being cast out. 10:21 I think it would be even though we've been there before it would 10:23 be well for us to at least go back to Genesis 3 and 10:26 re-establish the nature of that deception. 10:31 The deception revolved around certain things about God--about 10:35 his character. 10:37 Two political candidates one is saying this--one is saying that. 10:38 We have biblical data as to what the serpent was saying. 10:43 We know what his line is. 10:44 >>Everything you're about to read is on earth but that's the 10:47 beautiful thing is that we are drawn to the scene on earth in 10:51 the garden because that gives us a picture about what happened in 10:55 realms we don't. 10:56 >>Yes, good point. 10:57 >>We don't have access to those realms and so God has outlined 10:59 what has happened on earth and that's our reference point. 11:03 That's how it went down up there--the way that it went. 11:07 So the controversy simple transferred. 11:09 >>Yeah that's excellent. 11:10 >>So Genesis 3 then. 11:12 >>Genesis 3. 11:14 >>Let's--let's go back there and summarize what transpired at the 11:18 fall of mankind. 11:19 Um I'll just initiate it by calling attention to verse 1 11:22 that the serpent approaches with cunning--with deception--with 11:27 deceptive intent. 11:28 >>Yeah the bible does not--the bible does not often introduce 11:33 Satan as a super powerful being. 11:36 There are certainly assents in which he is powerful--relative 11:39 to say to those of us at this table. 11:41 But relative to God his power is negligable. 11:45 I mean he's a created being. 11:46 God could just snap him out of existence. 11:49 So our concern about Satan and our fear of him--I'm' just using 11:55 that--Our concern about him should not be that he is strong 11:58 and he's muscular and he's terrible and that he's 12:01 frightening. 12:02 It's that he's subtle. 12:03 There's a subtlety--There's a couple scriptures introduced 12:05 that way over and over again. 12:07 >>So he's not this guy with a pitch fork and with the. 12:09 >>Is that subtle. 12:10 >>With the horns. 12:11 [Laughter] 12:12 >>In other words the caricature that we invent of Satan--the 12:15 caricature invented of Satan are most pleasing to him. 12:18 >>That's right. 12:19 It serves his purposes. 12:20 >>Perfectly. 12:22 I think something you said was to the real heart of the key 12:24 issue on this cosmic war. 12:26 You said that God could just snap him out of existence. 12:29 Well a lot of people actually wonder well why not? 12:33 I mean if he's the enemy and he's done all these dastardly 12:37 things and we're suffering under his influence why didn't God 12:41 just snap him out of existence the moment that he began to 12:46 rebel? 12:47 Why not you see millions--billions of 12:50 angels--Lucifer begins to level accusations against the 12:53 character of God and spin his web of deception. 12:55 Why wouldn't God just say what Lucifer is saying about me is 12:59 false. 13:00 Don't talk about me like that anymore. 13:03 Snap, out of existence. 13:04 >>That would bring us right back to our theme of love requires 13:08 freedom--requires risk. 13:10 In other words if God is love and that love requires freedom 13:15 and that freedom involves this choice that we have to love or 13:20 not to have. 13:21 And so that we. 13:22 >>To love or not to love. 13:23 >>To love or not to love excuse me and so we exercise that 13:26 choice. 13:27 We say oh well I chose not to love God. 13:29 >>Snap. 13:30 >>Oh whoops. 13:32 >>That's force. 13:33 >>Try to imagine the picture--this is what I 13:35 >>That's Kim. 13:36 >>Yeah try to imagine in your mind all the angels are standing 13:41 there God says what he's saying about me isn't true. 13:44 Zap he's gone. 13:45 In that next moment what are all the angels thinking? 13:46 >>Hmmm. 13:47 >>Yeah. 13:48 >>Don't challenge God. 13:50 Don't say anything different I think we better watch our P's 13:54 and Q's because we're dealing here with a kind of power that's 13:57 all about zapping. 13:58 >>You know I was in Vancouver, Canada and I was interacting 14:03 with this ex-drug addict who was recovering. 14:05 And he would come to these meetings-these bible study 14:11 meetings we would have and any time the subject of God and evil 14:16 would come up he would just like freak out and he would begin to 14:20 curse and swear and I remember I would always have to gently walk 14:23 up, grab him, take his outside and say cool it. 14:26 And his main issue was if I was God I would shoot the devil in 14:31 the head tonight. 14:33 He would always say that. 14:34 If I was God I would just blow him away. 14:37 And I remember thinking about that and thinking man I get 14:40 where he's coming from like I get it you know. 14:44 He's perplexed. 14:45 And at some point the conversation led to I asked him 14:48 if God were to shoot the devil dead today would that solve 14:55 God's problem?? 14:56 Would that--tomorrow morning--ok the devil he's on the 15:01 ground--his brains are across the floor. 15:03 Tomorrow morning is there no--are there not prostitutes 15:08 tomorrow--is there no drug addicts under the 15:10 bridge--tomorrow morning is everything perfect on earth?--Is 15:14 evil gone? 15:16 And he thought about it first he said guess not. 15:21 He said the problem that God has is not with the guy with the 15:24 pitchfork and the horns. 15:25 God's issue is floating around between your ears. 15:28 The issue God is dealing with is in our minds because--so the 15:32 voice in Genesis is introduced these false concepts of God so 15:36 that's what he's up against. 15:38 And at the end of the day in the last conversation we read 15:41 Philippians 2. 15:42 Tell me how you feel about this--tell me if I'm on to 15:44 something. 15:45 In Philippians 2 this idea of the Messiah coming to this world 15:52 and representing God. 15:53 At the end of that it says every knee will bow of those in 15:57 heaven, on earth and under the earth and every tongue will 16:00 confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. 16:05 So check this out. 16:07 The problem that God has is not that his muscles are not big 16:11 enough to remove sin from the world. 16:13 What God wants is for sin to bow the knee--for evil to bow the 16:18 knee. 16:19 So in the end. 16:20 >>By way of evidence? 16:22 >>By way of the fact that God's character would have been what's 16:25 the word I'm looking for? 16:27 >>Vindicated? 16:29 >>Vindicated. 16:30 >>Exohonorated? 16:31 >>Yeah in the end and what we've been saying here that God is not 16:34 going to win the war--not by force. 16:36 >>Not by position but by influence. 16:39 >>Yeah by the virtue of his character so in the end evil 16:41 would be allowed to play its full course out. 16:45 So that the entire universe would see, ok yeah I'm 16:49 voting--I'm voting for candidate number 1. 16:51 And then in that sense God would have conquered evil. 16:54 Because of the virtue of his character. 16:57 I think it's important to high light. 16:58 It's not an issue of power. 17:01 It's not an issue of just this person called Satan. 17:03 The issue is also in the deceptions that have been 17:07 introduced into our own minds. 17:08 >>And I think we--I love what you say there Jeffrey--I think 17:10 we've also at times we overplay Satan's influence in the world. 17:14 Satan was the originator of sin. 17:18 But we are now participants in sin==participants in rebellion. 17:22 Every bit as much as the angels or Satan. 17:25 >>We got the virus. 17:27 >>He pushed the snowball down the hill. 17:29 He got it going. 17:30 But we're now caught up in the wake of that such that and I've 17:32 said the same thing too. 17:34 If the devil were to die tonight by some means supernatural or 17:37 natural or whatever--hypothetically--we 17:40 know that that's not going to happen. 17:41 That doesn't solve the problems of the world because I've got 17:44 devil like thinking--selfish thinking between my ears and so 17:47 do you and so do you and so do billions of people--so do the 17:50 fallen angels. 17:52 So the problem you're exactly correct in identifying the 17:55 solution will be proportionate--commensurate the 18:00 diagnosis.--And the diagnosis is not--it's not an issue of power. 18:03 It's an issue of persuasion or conviction and love. 18:07 >>Jeffrey you mentioned and David you just mentioned that 18:10 the issue God is dealing with is between our ears. 18:13 We want to share the story of a lady that we met in 18:18 Africa--James and I did and her name's Barbara. 18:22 And she has an incredible story. 18:24 And it all happened between her ears. 18:27 It all happened--she encountered ideas about God--concepts about 18:34 God--insights to God's love. 18:36 And it radically impacted her thinking and the weapons if you 18:42 will that were used were words on paper. 18:45 Literature was given to her and it radically transformed the way 18:52 she thinks and feels about God. 18:54 So let's look at Barbara's story. 18:56 >>I was really looking for happiness because you know 19:05 teenagers they think happiness is in drinking beer, clubbing. 19:09 Well I became an alcoholic when I was very young at the age of 19:17 16. 19:18 A lot of times when I go clubbing I used to drink a lot 19:22 of alcohol. 19:23 Different men used to take me out when I'm drunk I go with 19:27 them. 19:29 When I used to club I used to smoke and do all of those bad 19:33 things. 19:34 I didn't find happiness at all. 19:37 When I became in contact with the VOP's I-I became a changed 19:46 person. 19:47 I started going through them--started studying them 19:50 answering questions. 19:52 That's when I knew that the bad life I had was not good at all. 19:58 [Music] 20:05 As I was reading I came across a very important verse 20:09 Hebrews chapter 9 verse 28. 20:11 That verse touched me. 20:13 It says Jesus Christ was once a sacrifice to take the sins of 20:21 many and he will appear again for the second time not bear 20:26 sin. 20:29 But to bring salvation to everyone who is waiting for him. 20:32 And definitely I am one of those people who is waiting for him. 20:37 [Music] 20:45 >>To partner with Light Bearers in spreading the gospel visit us 20:48 online at lightbearers.org or call us toll free at 20:52 1-877-585-1111. 20:55 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 21:01 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 21:04 [Music] 21:14 >>So the devils obviously not the guy with the pitchfork and 21:18 the horns. 21:20 We've been talking about the fact that God's problem is far 21:23 more profound than what we often make it out to be. 21:26 We over simplify. 21:27 If I were God I would zap him. 21:29 And the reality is that the world is a messed up place and I 21:32 made a comment in our last conversation about the fact that 21:37 were the devil to die tonight tomorrow the world would remain 21:41 the same. 21:43 And I mentioned the prostitute, the drug dealer under the 21:45 bridge. 21:46 But in mentioning these different people--I'm talking 21:48 about the victimization. 21:50 Is that even a word? 21:51 The victimization of the world that these are victims and we're 21:57 all part of this world and Genesis chapter 3 actually 22:01 records. 22:02 >>Let me just say 22:04 >>this process here 22:05 >>Before you look at Genesis 2 that I appreciate that 22:07 clarification on a very personal level. 22:09 That when we mention the prostitutes, the drug addicts 22:12 under the bridge whatever that kind of--that--that language. 22:17 I appreciate the clarification a lot because my mother was a drug 22:20 addict. 22:21 She was never homeless but she was a drug addict and I knew as 22:28 a kid although I didn't have the language to wrap 22:31 around--victimization. 22:33 I knew, check this out--this was amazing. 22:36 I learned this when I was a teenager. 22:38 I didn't even know this. 22:39 But when my mom and dad--my biological father separated my 22:44 mom explained to me later that the reason they separated is 22:47 because my mom gave him an ultimatum. 22:50 The ultimatum was that they were young and they were you know 22:55 partying and whatever and here comes this baby--that's me. 23:00 And she tells him I don't want to continue this life of, you 23:04 know, well mainly him. 23:06 She wasn't really into drugs. 23:08 She was socially drinking. 23:10 But she wasn't a drug addict. 23:12 But my biological father was a heavy drug user from what she 23:16 told me. 23:18 And she said, you know, we have a baby now and you need to stop 23:21 this. 23:23 We need to settle down have a family. 23:24 We need to be responsible now. 23:26 And he just kept saying yeah, yeah, yeah but then continuing 23:29 on as a party animal. 23:30 And my mom left my biological father in order to move away 23:35 from drugs and alcohol. 23:37 Then my mom married a guy my step-father and he was an 23:43 alcoholic or became one along the way and was abusive. 23:47 And then my mom became an alcoholic and a drug addict in 23:50 order to cope with the abuse and the pain that was continually 23:55 being put upon here. 23:57 I watched my mom. 23:58 >>It was a coping mechanism. 24:00 >>Yeah it was a coping mechanism. 24:01 So she was, Jeffrey--she was in fact--she was, you know, a 24:05 sinner like all of us. 24:06 But she was a victim of what was coming her way and she coped 24:10 with it by becoming--my mom you know--I just cringe to say it. 24:15 But my mom was an alcoholic and a drug addict. 24:17 Praise God the last three years of her life she completely 24:21 stopped using drugs and alcohol and became a just a vibrant 24:26 Christian. 24:28 She loved the Lord. 24:29 >>Hallelujah. 24:30 >>Yeah so I appreciate that a lot. 24:31 I appreciate that clarification because all of that's in my 24:35 history. 24:36 >>So the history of Genesis 3 is in many ways the story of the 24:40 first deception and the first victimization. 24:44 But it's not a victimization of control. 24:46 It's not of power or of strength. 24:49 It's of manipulation--psychological 24:51 manipulation. 24:52 >>That's a great way to say it. 24:53 >>We've been--we've been there haven't we? 24:55 We sort of talked about the three parts--the tripod of 24:58 deception and the first there was where Satan the serpent said 25:03 to Eve has God really said you shall not eat of every tree of 25:07 the garden? 25:08 Suggesting that there was this vast horizon of restriction but 25:12 only modicum of freedom when in fact the opposite was true. 25:15 God had given huge freedom of every tree of the garden you may 25:18 freely eat. 25:19 But just this one, don't. 25:20 So suggesting that God is unclear and that he's 25:23 withholding and that he's restrictive. 25:25 He then transitions--now this is just review for us. 25:28 But we're talking about a war. 25:29 And if we want to know what happened up there. 25:32 This is a really good insight as to his M-O, Satan's M-O. 25:36 Then he says in the day that you eat of that tree you're not 25:39 gonna die. 25:40 Translation God has lied to you. 25:41 God is not trust worthy. 25:42 He doesn't love you. 25:44 He's trying to control you or manipulate you for purposes 25:46 napharius implied of his own. 25:48 And then the third leg of the tripod is where he just comes 25:52 right out and says this is what it's about. 25:54 He knows that in the day that you eat of this tree you'll be 25:59 like him. 26:00 You'll be like God. 26:01 So you have this sort of God is a with holder and restrictive. 26:04 He's unclear. 26:05 You have God is untrustworthy. 26:07 He doesn't love you. 26:08 He's manipulating you. 26:09 And the reason is he's self-serving he's looking out 26:12 for number one. 26:13 All of this and this was our big point a couple of discussions 26:16 ago. 26:17 And I hope our listeners will get this. 26:19 All of that psychological attack and all of that psychological 26:23 reorientation comes before the physical act of sinning. 26:27 >>Yeah, yeah. 26:29 >>The point is not. 26:30 >>That's crucial to get that. 26:31 >>Taking . 26:32 >>That's the effect. 26:33 >>That's right. 26:34 >>That's the effect. 26:35 >>yeah we have another insight to the psychological nature of 26:38 this warfare and the fact that it was a complete distortion of 26:44 the character of God that was deposited in human thoughts and 26:47 feelings. 26:49 We have another insight to that in Job 1 because here we have 26:52 verse 6. 26:55 Just listen to this and see if you--you--you agree that there's 26:59 something more here than really meets the eye on the surface. 27:03 It says there was a day when the sons of God came to present 27:06 themselves before the Lord-verse 6. 27:08 And Satan came also among them. 27:10 So the picture is Satan is now showing up in this heavenly 27:14 conclave--this heavenly parliament--this meeting before 27:18 God. 27:19 So they're all together and the devil proceeds to level an 27:24 accusation and here's--here's where it goes. 27:26 The Lord said to Satan where do you come from? 27:29 Satan said I come from earth that's verse 7. 27:31 Verse 8 the Lord said to Satan but have you considered my 27:35 servant Job? 27:37 So God points to a human being as if to say he's my true 27:40 representation on earth. 27:42 You're here purporting to represent planet earth. 27:44 But I value what I see taking place in Job and he's my true 27:48 man. 27:49 Ok and then the devil begins his accusation. 27:52 And he says in verse 9 does Job fear or reverence or serve God 27:58 for nothing? 28:00 Question mark again. 28:01 He's into this question mark on God and he says does God--Job 28:06 fear God for nothing? 28:08 And then he says have you not made a hedge about him--around 28:11 him--his household around all that he has on every side. 28:13 You have blessed the work of his hands and his possessions have 28:18 increased in the land. 28:22 But now stretch out your hand and touch all that he has and he 28:24 will surely curse you to your face. 28:26 What the devil basically just said is--is God you have bought 28:32 Job's loyalty and affection and trust and whatever you got from 28:37 Job you've purchased with stuff with material blessings. 28:41 But if you take all the stuff away--the material blessings 28:45 away he'll curse you because Job isn't serving you because of 28:49 something that's intrinsically worthy of being serve that he 28:54 sees in you. 28:55 He's basically prostituting himself to you. 28:56 He's giving service to you. 29:00 >>That's good though. 29:02 >>He's-He's serving you because you've bought him off. 29:04 So two motives are in contrast here. 29:08 God is claiming that Job and I have something going on. 29:11 And the basis of it is love. 29:14 >>Loyalty and love. 29:15 >>Loyalty, love and trust. 29:17 And the devil is saying no, no, no that's not what's going on. 29:19 What's going on here is that you're self-serving and he's 29:22 self-serving and you've got an arrangement going where you're 29:25 scratching one another's backs. 29:26 >>Ok now that is awesome. 29:28 That is so true. 29:29 But I got to speak to this now. 29:31 This is not just a conversation between Job or excuse me between 29:36 Satan and God because if that were the case God could then 29:39 just leverage his omniscience and say I really know what's 29:42 going on and you don't really know what's going on by virtue 29:45 of the fact I am God and you're not omniscient. 29:47 However, the other players here are those listening in who don't 29:52 have the gift that God has--the natural innate ability of 29:57 knowing the truth. 29:58 So now an accusation has been levied and God here can either 30:01 grab Satan by the neck and wring his neck and say what I'm saying 30:05 is true. 30:06 Now that's an option his power or just snap him out of 30:09 existence as we've talked about. 30:10 Or he can look around and say ok. 30:13 This is an accusation. 30:15 >>There's a jury here. 30:16 >>There's a jury here so let's see. 30:18 And the rest of the book of Job is the playing out of God 30:21 answering the accusation of Satan not with his might but by 30:26 allowing evil to play its course and seeing where Job's loyalty 30:31 really lies. 30:34 Is it because the goodies. 30:37 Is it because of the stuff? 30:39 Or is it because of which God is himself. 30:40 >>Phillip Yancy calls this the wager. 30:41 >>The wager? 30:42 >>Yeah this is a wager between God and the devil. 30:43 Not in the simplistic sense of a bet but in the sense of there 30:47 are two claims being made. 30:49 Let's play it out. 30:50 Let's see what the truth of the matter actually is. 30:53 >>Isn't it fascinating to you that God's reply in his defense 30:58 is pointing to a human being and saying check out what's 31:03 happening in the war that's raging in his heart and in his 31:08 mind. 31:09 And check out who's on the throne of his heart and mind. 31:14 So God's defense in court is by pointing to the human race and 31:20 saying you should consider that little piece of data right 31:23 there. 31:25 >>Ok 31:26 >>That's powerful. 31:27 >>Ok I've gotta bring something here. 31:28 I hope this works. 31:29 I want you to tell me if you think this is awesome or not. 31:30 [Laughing] 31:31 >>Is there anything-is there anything in between David. 31:33 It's awesome or not. 31:34 Is it ok to say well that's alright. 31:36 >>I don't know if it's going to be as awesome as that. 31:38 >>yeah, yeah, yeah I know, I know. 31:40 >>Today 31:41 >>Ok so here's--you mentioned earlier Ty that God could've 31:45 just snapped Satan out of existence and we just said here 31:47 God could've wrung Satan's neck so to speak. 31:49 Ok and you said that there would have just been a puff of smoke. 31:53 But then all the angels would have said oh but we'll--now 31:55 we'll serve God out of fear that we don't want to be snapped out 31:59 of existence rather from love. 32:00 Ok but--but we have to remember we're dealing with an omnipotent 32:03 being here. 32:04 A being who has the resources of every possible option available 32:08 to him. 32:09 So he could have done something even more subtle and persuasive 32:14 and that is this: he could've just thought Satan out of 32:17 existence and then with his power removed. 32:20 >>I know where you are going. 32:23 >He could've removed any memory of Satan so that--now--now 32:25 here's where this gets really amazing so that the angels would 32:28 be blissfully unaware. 32:29 There would be no question of loyalty. 32:31 Now watch this I've got these--we've got these magnets 32:35 at the table here to play with. 32:37 So it would be a little bit like this. 32:38 Ok let's just say that--that behind the scene-I'm going to 32:41 take these heavier magnets here and I'm going to put them under 32:42 the table so I can--Can you get a shot of that Jim? 32:45 So that I can move but if you didn't know that I had the 32:48 magnets under the table it would look like this thing is moving 32:51 on its own. 32:52 Right? 32:53 So if God goes behind the scene so to speak which he can do for 32:57 any one of us. 32:58 Right now he can make you think any thought you want. 33:00 He can remove any memory that you've had any affecting or any 33:02 part of your personality he can manipulate. 33:05 So he can just go behind the scenes and do whatever he wants. 33:09 >>And nobody would know the difference. 33:11 >>And nobody would know the difference. 33:12 Now let me ask you this question. 33:13 Here's the question-And you're already on to it but I'm gonna 33:15 ask it anyway for our listeners. 33:17 Who is the only one who would know what's really going on? 33:22 The only one who would know? 33:23 [Simultaneously] God 33:24 >>Ok so who gets jipped then? 33:26 Who's the one that gets jipped? 33:28 God himself knows that if he begins to manipulate in that 33:32 absolutely subtle and undetected way the one who suffers is God. 33:36 And what he longs for are real relationships with real people 33:39 which require real love and real freedom and real risks. 33:43 God could manipulate the circumstances to where it looks 33:47 to everybody in a robotic fashion as if all is well. 33:50 >>Except for him. 33:52 >>Except for him the one that gets robbed. 33:54 >>Price too high to pay. 33:56 To high. 33:57 >>Not only does God get robbed but another way of saying it is 33:59 if God were to just. 34:01 >>That's awesome. 34:02 >>That is awesome. 34:03 >>Ok whoooooo. 34:04 >>On the continuum--on the spectrum from awesome to not 34:06 that's awesome. 34:08 >>That was amazing. 34:09 [Talking over one another] 34:11 >>Here's the thing not only does God as you say jipped--not only 34:13 does he get robbed but--but God in himself would be submitting 34:24 to a value system or an exercise of principles and characters 34:29 that's completely contrary to who God is. 34:35 >>That was Jeffrey's point in our last conversation. 34:37 Not only. 34:38 >>Does he not want to? 34:39 >>He just wouldn't. 34:40 That's not the kind of--a virtue--a virtuoso violinist. 34:45 If I picked up the violin I could--it would be a disaster. 34:48 But a virtuoso violinist wouldn't pick up the violin and 34:51 purposely, intentionally play. 34:54 No. 34:55 Naturally what's going to flow out of him or her--their 34:58 fingers--it's going to be beautiful. 35:00 Right? 35:01 You wouldn't intentionally play something that sounded 35:03 discordant and off key and disharmonious and out of tune 35:06 when you have the capacity to do something grand and beautiful. 35:10 >>Especially if you love beauty. 35:12 >>You know did we ever in our earlier conversation we had 35:16 mentioned several times that we wanted to go to Psalm 27:4 did 35:20 we ever get there? 35:22 >>we never did. 35:23 >>Well this is not a bad place to go there. 35:24 At least to just mention it. 35:26 David basically says there in the Psalm-I'll just read it Ty 35:29 and you can launch off on this or I can launch off on this 35:33 because both of us are saying man we've got to bring that 35:35 up--we've got to bring that up. 35:36 And this is a great place. 35:37 Psalm 27 verse 4 one thing I have desired of the Lord and 35:42 that I will seek that I may dwell in the house of the Lord 35:44 that I may be in fellowship with him all the days of my life to 35:47 behold the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in his temple. 35:52 God is beautiful and I love the idea that God is not just 35:57 God--strong, mighty- omnipotent-omniscient- 36:00 omni-benevolent and all of the 36:01 attributes all the omni's. God is beautiful. 36:05 And as a beautiful God of love and art and creativity he's not 36:11 going to be satisfied with the little. 36:14 >>Doing anything under the table. 36:15 >>Right. 36:16 >>And that's funny that we would say it that way--under the 36:18 table. 36:19 >>Yeah that implies deception. 36:21 Isn't that something? 36:22 >>I'm going to use that. 36:23 >>So what we're suggesting here is that God is a God of full 36:26 disclosure. 36:27 He's above the table. 36:28 He's playing out all his attributes right before the 36:35 universe to behold before humanity and angels so that we 36:39 can all look on--look in--this just came to my mind Isaiah 5 36:43 God in the local historical sense is saying hey this is 36:49 everything I've done for Israel. 36:51 They're like a vineyard that I've planted. 36:54 I've planted this vineyard. 36:56 I've pulled out the stones and I've cultivated the ground and 36:59 I've planted Israel as a beautiful grapevine. 37:02 But it brought forth bad grapes. 37:07 And then God says something interesting. 37:09 >>I love this. 37:10 >>He says--he says judge between me and my vineyard--between me 37:16 and Israel--judge between me and them. 37:18 >> Is there anything more? 37:21 >>is there anything more that I could have done for Israel that 37:23 I have not done. 37:25 So God is inviting judgment. 37:28 He invites inquiry and he's aiming for full disclosure. 37:31 He wants everything on the table. 37:33 Nothing under the table. 37:36 >>Authenticity is not an option with God. 37:38 >>That's right. 37:39 >>It's not an option. 37:40 >>That's right. 37:41 >>I think if everyone's cools with this I'd like to go to 37:44 Ezekiel 28 which is a passage that we've been to before. 37:46 But in saying God is a God of beauty. 37:49 He's a God that's above the table. 37:50 He's above board. 37:52 He's a God of authenticity. 37:54 We have to then realize that in this conflict Satan has tools in 37:57 his tool box. 37:58 He has resources that he can use that are not available to God. 38:02 Right? 38:03 In other words deception, innuendo, insinuation, 38:07 manipulation. 38:09 >>Coercion. 38:10 >>Coercion and we see this. 38:11 >>Go there fast we got one minute before the break. 38:13 >>Well then let's just go afterward because we want to 38:15 spend some time there. 38:16 >>Yeah well Ezekiel 28 though, we can spend some real time 38:20 there--just--just go and get us started there at least and then 38:23 we do need to take a break because of the required. 38:25 >>Yeah I get that. 38:27 >>Alright. 38:28 >>Let's be sure. 38:29 >>To come back. 38:31 >>That we come back because there's this, as you're aware, 38:34 this weird little word that show up there in the King James it's 38:38 like merchandiser. 38:39 Its merchandise and 38:41 >>yeah merchandise. 38:42 >>Trafficking and it's like what?--Where--What is that word 38:44 doing there. 38:48 >>And in a newer King James Version they actually dealt with 38:51 it by calling it trading. 38:52 >>Trading. 38:53 >>Yeah. 38:54 >>And in the break I'll look up some other translations and see 38:55 what that word is rendered as. 38:57 >>But basically what we've come to so far in this conversation 38:59 is that the war that we're engaged in is a political war 39:05 that's taking place in the hearts and minds of human 39:07 beings. 39:08 The basic issue in the Great War between good and evil is 39:11 misrepresentation of the character of God verses the 39:15 truth about the character of God. 39:18 And that's the playing field. 39:21 That's the landscape upon which this war is occurring. 39:25 >>That's right. 39:27 [Music] 39:34 Announcer: A light in Zambia is a moving video 39:38 documentary that traces the stories of five amazing African 39:41 men and women who encountered Christ through the powerful 39:44 medium of gospel literature. 39:46 To receive your free copy call 1-877-585-1111 or write to Light 39:53 Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 39:59 Once again to receive your free copy of A Light in Zambia call 40:04 1-877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell 40:11 Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 40:14 Simply ask for the Zambia DVD. 40:18 [Music] 40:30 >>We ended our last conversation where I was really hoping to get 40:33 to Ezekiel 28 but we had time constraints. 40:36 But now we're good. 40:38 So let's--let's go take a look at this verse I was mentioning 40:40 that sort of shows up. 40:42 It's an unusual word and what I want to do so that we can 40:45 appreciate just how unusual it is--just sort of read some of 40:49 Ezekiel 28 just very quickly in context so that when we get to 40:52 that word we can say whoa that is kind of odd. 40:54 So I'm just going to read beginning in verse 12 we've been 40:57 here before. 40:58 It says son of man take up a lamentation for the King of Tyre 41:01 and say thus to him thus says the Lord God you are the seal of 41:05 perfection full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 41:06 This is describing the fall of Lucifer. 41:11 You were in Eden the Garden of God. 41:12 Every precious stone was your covering the Sardis, topaz 41:14 diamond, the barrel onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and 41:17 emerald with gold. 41:18 The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you 41:20 on the day you were created. 41:22 You were the anointed cherub who covers I established you. 41:24 You were on the holy mountain of God. 41:27 You walked back and forth in the midst of the fire. 41:29 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were 41:32 created till iniquity was found in you. 41:34 Ok so far so good right? 41:35 Not so good it's actually so terrible but in terms of our 41:40 understanding. 41:42 It's the fall of Lucifer and now listen to this--next 41:45 verse--verse 16 by the abundance of your trading you became 41:49 filled with violence within and you sinned. 41:51 Therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the 41:55 mountain of God. 41:56 I destroyed you oh covering cherub from the midst of the 41:58 fiery stones. 41:59 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. 42:01 You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of you splendor. 42:03 I cast you to the ground. 42:05 I laid you before kings that they might gaze at you. 42:08 You defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your 42:11 iniquities--here it is again. 42:12 By the iniquity of your trading. 42:14 And we could continue to read on here. 42:17 But isn't it interesting were God is basically raising a 42:20 series of accusations--you were perfect--you were perfect--you 42:22 were perfect---and then iniquity was found in you and you exalted 42:25 your heart by reason of your splendor. 42:27 And in the midst of all these sort of understandable 42:30 accusations God says you know what it was? 42:32 It was your trading. 42:33 It was your trafficking. 42:35 One of the verses there in the King James it was your 42:38 merchandise. 42:40 Now I remember the first time I read that I thought what--what? 42:45 So it's like. 42:46 >>What's trading? 42:47 >>yeah that's right like you were selling something. 42:49 But what was Satan selling? 42:50 He wasn't selling widgets. 42:51 Right he wasn't selling trinkets. 42:52 >>Drugs, Arms. 42:55 >>no, no, no, no he was selling the very--we began this program 42:58 by talking about Revelation 12:7 war in heaven--polemos. 43:01 A political war. 43:03 The thing that Satan is selling here is an idea. 43:06 He's selling a picture. 43:09 He's selling his version of reality. 43:12 And that version of reality revolves around the fact that 43:15 God is controlling that God is manipulative that God is 43:18 coercive that God is restrictive. 43:20 >>It's his own smear campaign. 43:22 >>It's a smear campaign. 43:23 Now here's a fascinating little thing here. 43:25 I read an article several years ago by one of our premier 43:29 theologians and Dr. Richard Davidson. 43:32 And he said he's a brilliant Hebrew scholar that the root 43:36 word here--the word is its recula--this word by your 43:42 trading, by your trafficking is recula. 43:44 And he said the root word in the Hebrew is the very same as the 43:48 root word for gossip-to lie to tell a tall tale. 43:55 >>So we're engaged in a gossip war? 43:57 >>There's a gossip war. 44:00 What he was selling was gossip and that's where you remember we 44:02 said that Satan had things in his tool box that were available 44:05 to him. 44:06 God has truth, honesty, integrity, authenticity, 44:11 transparency. 44:12 No wonder God wants everything to be above the table. 44:13 Because God's character is only above board. 44:17 Where Satan can be down here a manipulating, creating, 44:20 coercing. 44:21 God says no, no, no, no let's everything that's dark let's 44:25 turn the lights on. 44:26 Everything that's spoken in secret let's say it out loud. 44:29 >>New Testament same idea, alright. 44:33 >>Ok 44:34 >>So fast forward from the trafficking, trading of 44:36 deceptive ideas in Ezekiel 28 we come to the apostle Paul in 2 44:41 Corinthians. 44:42 >>Yes. 44:43 >>Chapter 4-chapter 4. 44:44 >>Ok I thought you were going to chapter 10. 44:46 >>Yeah, yeah I could hear that in your voice. 44:48 Chapter 4 and starting with verse 3. 44:51 Here's Satan in chapter 28 of Ezekiel. 44:56 Here's Satan now being discussed by Paul he says but even if our 45:00 gospel is veiled. 45:02 It is veiled to those who are perishing whose minds the God of 45:07 this age has blinded who do not believe lest the light of the 45:14 gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of 45:17 God-emphasis-should shine on them. 45:20 You catch that. 45:22 So, so, so here Paul is saying--I'll just summarize 45:26 it-Paul is saying that the world is blinded on a mental level due 45:33 to the lies that Satan has imposed upon the human mind. 45:40 Notice that the devil is focused on minds. 45:43 And he is called here the god of this age. 45:47 And he blinds people's minds to the image of God. 45:52 And Jesus is the infinite contrast. 45:54 Jesus is the evidence that God is bringing to the table so to 45:59 speak. 46:00 Jesus is the above the table full disclosure that God is 46:05 bringing to the world so that the light of the glory of the 46:09 image of God should shine into human minds and illuminate our 46:14 thinking regarding the character of God. 46:16 Verse 6 for it is the God who commanded the light to shine out 46:23 of darkness who has shown in our hearts exactly where the 46:25 controversy is going on to give the light that is the 46:29 information--the data--the insight of the knowledge of the 46:32 glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 46:36 So Jesus is the one through whom the truth about God's character 46:41 is revealed in contrast to the blinding deception of Satan--his 46:47 trading--his traffic. 46:48 >>As to who God is. 46:50 >>Isn't that amazing? 46:51 >>Totally. 46:52 >>So you have a harmony here Paul is thinking exactly like 46:53 this description in Ezekiel 28. 46:56 >>And it says heart and knowledge. 46:58 It seems to encompass both mental and emotional. 47:01 It's like the way we mentally think about God and the way we 47:05 feel about God. 47:06 >>Oh I like that mind and heart. 47:09 >>Mind and heart. 47:10 >>Yeah, yeah. 47:11 >>Something that we can't lose sight of here and we just need 47:12 to allow the sobriety of this point to--to impress itself upon 47:16 our mind. 47:18 And that is that Paul uses the strongest possible language here 47:21 for Satan. 47:22 He calls him the god--if I'm not mistaken it's the very same 47:27 Greek word Sayaws that's used for God in the rest of the New 47:29 Testament. 47:30 He calls him the God of this age. 47:31 In other words he's saying that his power is so significant--his 47:35 manipulative psychological power is so significant that it is as 47:37 if he is a God like figure to those whose minds are blinded 47:42 about who the true God is. 47:44 >>Yeah he's pervasive in his influence. 47:45 First John chapter 5 I think it is says that the whole world is 47:50 under the sway. 47:52 >>The influence. 47:54 >>of the wicked one. 47:55 Sway. 47:57 >>That really makes sense when you look a little further on 47:59 here in 2 Corinthians chapter 11. 48:01 2 Corinthians chapter 11 48:02 >>I thought we were going to 10 ok. 48:06 >>We're going to go back to that but Satan in this chapter 11 48:07 takes us back to Genesis--takes us back to the beginning of the 48:11 deception-brings us all the way through Genesis to this 48:15 conflict. 48:16 And many times we read this in a very literally sense. 48:19 But I want to read these verses to you and tell me what you 48:22 think. 48:23 Because as I have been listening to this conversation these 48:25 verses are taking on a completely different meaning to 48:27 me than they used to when I used to read these verses. 48:30 I'll start in 2 Corinthians 11 and let's just begin with verse 48:33 1. 48:35 And I'm reading here from the King James Paul says would to 48:38 God you would bear with me a little in my folly and deed bear 48:40 with me for I am jealous over you--verse 2--with Godly 48:43 jealousy. 48:44 For I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you 48:47 as a chaste virgin to Christ but--verse 3--I fear lest by any 48:53 means as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety. 48:57 >>Or craftiness my version. 49:00 >>So your minds--your minds should be corrupted from the 49:02 simplicity that is in Christ. 49:05 Now notice this for if he that comes preaches another Jesus 49:12 whom you have not--whom we have not preached or if you receive 49:17 another spirit which you have not received or another gospel 49:21 which you have not accepted you might well bear with him. 49:24 Now notice this and I'm just gonna skip all of these verses 49:29 now I'm going to go to verse 13 for such those that bring these 49:32 other gospel spirits and Jesus--for such are false 49:36 prophets--false apostles excuse me--deceitful workers 49:40 transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ for no marvel 49:45 for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 49:52 Therefore is no great thing if his ministers also be 49:55 transformed and the ministers of righteousness whose end shall be 50:00 according to their works. 50:01 Now I used to take this very literally. 50:03 Oh Satan's gonna come he's gonna come as a minister of 50:06 righteousness. 50:07 But look at this in the context of our conversation. 50:09 Satan came to Eve in the garden as a minister of righteousness, 50:15 as an angel of light. 50:18 We talked about the pitchfork. 50:19 >>Bringing truth. 50:20 >>Yes this is light. 50:21 This is truth. 50:22 This is good news. 50:23 This is the gospel. 50:25 >>But his light is darkness. 50:27 >>His light is darkness.' 50:28 >>This is so good James 50:29 >>So you got this whole great controversy take--and what we're 50:33 looking for in the world--just generally speaking. 50:35 What we're looking for is we're looking for the pitchfork. 50:36 We're looking for the horns. 50:38 We're looking for the dark. 50:39 And here it is its light. 50:41 It's almost completely true but yet there's one aspect of it 50:47 that's false. 50:48 >>Nature of deception mixing. 50:50 >>yes. 50:51 >>the mingling. 50:52 >>the mingling of truth. 50:53 >>And Paul is so concerned about this. 50:55 He says I am so concerned about this because you know back in 50:57 the Garden of Eden--back in the Garden of Eden it worked. 51:00 >>It worked. 51:01 >>And we were perfect back then and it worked. 51:03 It was so subtle. 51:05 It was so crafty and it worked. 51:06 >>This scripture basically indicates among other 51:09 things-these are such great points. 51:11 This scripture indicates that Satan is--has set up a religious 51:17 system or a series of religious systems and that he is 51:22 masquerading in a religious garb purporting to represent God 51:28 through people who are ministers. 51:31 But in the process of their theology they're misrepresenting 51:36 the caricature of God in alignment with the original 51:40 deception of Revelati-of Genesis 3. 51:42 >>We're gonna get there--We're gonna get there. 51:45 But the truth of the matter is--is a significant number of 51:48 religions and even Christian perspectives that puport to be 51:54 representing God are actually representing a picture of God--a 51:57 caricature of God that are nothing like what scripture 52:01 reveals. 52:02 >>Another Jesus. 52:03 >>We have to be honest--well that's the thing I was gonna 52:05 say. 52:06 >>Another gospel 52:07 >>He says here another Jesus, a different spirit, a different 52:08 gospel. 52:09 >>Isn't that something? 52:10 >>Not everything that claims to be Christian is Christian. 52:12 You can't just take that name as a label and stick it on things 52:15 and suddenly it's biblical or suddenly it's Christian. 52:17 Not that we're sitting here at the table and saying oh we have 52:20 all the truth. 52:21 But what we are saying is that we are living in a matrix of 52:24 deception. 52:25 We are living in a place where the subtlety and the lines 52:29 between truth and error can be--so who then is our 52:31 lighthouse? 52:33 Who--through the fog--through the night--through the 52:36 waves-what's the. 52:37 >>Jesus. 52:39 >>He says it's Jesus God who made the light to shine out of 52:41 darkness by showing in our hearts to give us the 52:42 light--lighthouse of the knowledge of who God is in the 52:46 face of Jesus. 52:48 He's the one that we gotta keep coming back to such that we 52:50 could just say this and we're getting slightly ahead. 52:52 If a picture that we have of God in our mind whatever that 52:54 picture is--is not harmonizable with the person that we see in 53:01 the gospels of Jesus our picture of God is wrong. 53:05 >>Praise God that is 53:06 >>In the five minutes that we have left we gotta go to 2 53:09 Corinthians 10. 53:11 >>Ok that's back one page. 53:13 >>2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 3 through 5--3 through 5 for 53:17 though we walk in the flesh we do not war according to the 53:21 flesh for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but 53:25 mighty through God for the pulling down of strongholds 53:30 casting out arguments in every high thing that exalts itself 53:37 against the knowledge of God bringing every thought into 53:42 captivity to the obedience of Christ. 53:45 I think if I'm not mistaken and James has it right here--I think 53:49 the King James Version instead of casting down arguments it's 53:53 casting down imaginations. 53:55 >>Yes imaginations or marginal reference reasoning's. 53:58 Imaginations--reasoning's. 54:00 >>Ideas, concepts. 54:02 >>So the devil is engaged in a warfare against humanity in 54:04 which he is leveraging ideas, arguments, images, imaginings, 54:12 theological perspectives. 54:14 >>He's trafficking. 54:16 >>Trafficking and ideas and he's aiming for the mind. 54:20 He's aiming for the heart. 54:21 He's planting distorted perceptions of the character of 54:22 God and we're called upon--all of us as believers. 54:24 Anybody who believes in God--in Christ--to do a kind of warfare. 54:31 >>Yeah that's right. 54:33 >>A Type of warfare. 54:34 >>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this program 54:36 is a part of that warfare. 54:38 Because the goal of this program Table Talk is for us and our 54:42 listeners to learn to think biblically and clearly about who 54:48 God is. 54:49 So there's no weapons under the table. 54:51 There's no knives here. 54:52 This is very much an act of spiritual warfare. 54:55 >>It is. 54:56 It is. 54:57 >>Unmasking Satan and giving glory to God. 55:01 God is awesome. 55:02 God deserves our praise. 55:04 >>God is beautiful. 55:05 >>He is beautiful. 55:06 >>Look at these verses too. 55:08 These verses actually add to this just a little bit--I don't 55:11 know if we have time to do this though. 55:12 >>We got three minutes. 55:13 >>2 Peter chapter 2. 55:14 >>Talk fast I've heard you do it. 55:17 >>2 Peter chapter 2 again summarizing bringing it 55:19 together. 55:20 But tying in some of these words that we've read in Ezekiel 55:22 chapter 28 but there were false prophets among the people even 55:25 as there shall be false teachers among you who privately shall 55:29 bring in damnable heresies even in denying the Lord that brought 55:33 them. 55:34 And bring upon themselves swift destruction and many shall 55:36 follow their pernicious ways by reason of whom the truth shall 55:40 evil be spoken of. 55:41 And through covertness they shall with vain words make 55:45 merchandise of you. 55:46 God--Satan has been using--has been using words--wrong words to 55:51 make merchandise to traffic his merchandise against God they're 55:54 going to make merchandise of you who judgment now be long time 55:57 lingers not whose damnation slumbers not. 56:00 For if God spared not the angels that sinned but cast them 56:03 down--in other words these verses are tying in--not just 56:06 what happened in heaven. 56:08 Not just what's going on in spiritual places. 56:10 Not just what is happening with Lucifer and his merchandise. 56:13 But those who follow Christ. 56:16 Those who seek as we are doing to upend his plan--his 56:22 purpose--his work. 56:23 We're going to fall under that same category. 56:25 We're gonna receive opposition. 56:26 We're going to find ourselves in a similar situation that all of 56:30 God's faithful people have found themselves in. 56:32 In the context of this great controversy. 56:35 >>It's a spiritual warfare, James that takes the form of 56:38 intellectual controversy. 56:40 Who is God? 56:43 What is a Christian? 56:45 Who was Jesus? 56:46 I mean insurance policies and other things--acts of God. 56:50 >>What? 56:52 >>What? 56:54 This God. 56:55 The God of scripture. 56:56 The God of love. 56:57 The God of goodness. 56:58 The God...and you know its interesting back in 2 56:59 Corinthians 10 where you read the line there about casting 57:01 down--pulling down strongholds. 57:03 Think this through. 57:05 These strongholds have a stronghold on us and on our 57:11 minds. 57:14 >>They're fortresses. 57:15 >>They are fortresses in the mind. 57:16 This is who God really is. 57:18 He's controlling. 57:19 He's manipulative. 57:20 This is who....and until--like Eve in the garden--until we 57:22 think clearly about the love of God--the beauty of God--the 57:25 goodness of God. 57:26 These strongholds in our mind will elicit a whole host of 57:29 behaviors that will bring shame, fear, guilt, broken 57:34 relationships. 57:35 >>Ty I think a good way to wrap this up and I--you guys can 57:40 piggy back on this real quick I think a great big picture--frame 57:44 is a statement that Paul makes in First Corinthians 4 verse 9 57:49 and we're aware of this statement. 57:51 >>You got about 30 seconds. 57:52 >>That we have been made a spectacle to the world both to 57:56 angels and to men. 58:00 This whole picture of Job we are Job. 58:03 This little speck in the universe called planet earth is 58:06 Job. 58:07 This is--this is--this is the theater here and the entire 58:11 universe is looking on. 58:12 And how we live our lives and how we relate. 58:15 How we think and feel about God will be the thing that God 58:20 points to to indicate his character. 58:21 >>Praise God. 58:22 >>Praise God. 58:23 Announcer: To receive our free monthly newsletter and a list of 58:28 Light Bearers resources visit us online at lighbearers.org or 58:32 call us toll free at 1-877-585-1111. 58:37 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 58:42 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. |
Revised 2014-12-17