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[Music]
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>>Guys there are some powerful,
powerful verses that we've got
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to look at in the Bible when we
talk about the subject of love,
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freedom, risk.
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And really describe what
happened--not only here on
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planet earth but also what is
taking place in the context of
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heaven and the conflict that
began there and is now come down
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to this planet.
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I'm thinking of
Revelation chapter 12.
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I'm thinking Ezekiel 28.
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I know we've looked at some
of these bible verses briefly.
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But I think we
really need to dig in.
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We really need to find some of
the key elements that are here.
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>>Where do you want to start?
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>>I think we should
start in Revelation 12.
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>>Alright, let's do it.
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>>Not only because that is my
favorite book of the bible--the
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book of Revelation.
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Revelation chapter 12 it
basically lays out in verse 7
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through 9 this war
that broke out in heaven.
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I'll just read the verses
Revelation chapter 12:7-9 and it
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says here "War broke out
in heaven and Michael and his
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angels fought with the dragon.
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And the dragon and his angels
fought but they did not prevail
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nor was a place found for
them in heaven any longer.
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So that great dragon was cast
out that serpent of old called
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the devil and Satan who
deceives the whole world.
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He was cast to the earth and his
angels were cast out with him.
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>>How huge isn't' it?
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>>Powerful verses.
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>>So much there.
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>>This brings together not only
the fact that this--earth is
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engaged in a war and a conflict
but that this war actually began
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in heaven.
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This war isn't like the kind
of wars we have today on planet
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earth.
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You know we have tanks and
grenades and bombs and missiles
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and machine guns
this war is different.
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This war is a war that
can be described as political.
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It is a war of words.
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It's a war of ideas.
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It's a conflict of principles.
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In fact the bible describes
that in many other places.
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The principles and powers that
are in conflict in relation to
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not only heaven but the planet
earth and what's going on in
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this planet.
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>>Ok James you're saying this
is a political war and really
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that's in the text.
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>>Yes.
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>>In chapter 12 verse 7
the first verse you read in
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Revelation is says
war broke out in heaven.
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The Greek word that the apostle
John chose to employ here guys
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is polemos from which we get
words--well first of all like
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poles--like the North
Pole, South Pole--two poles on a
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battery a
positive and a negative.
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It's the idea of polemic.
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It's the idea of two divided or
opposite ends of a spectrum or
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of ideas.
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Polemos is a word from which
we get words like politics.
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When we witness a
political battle in American
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culture--political war.
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>>Or any culture.
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>>Or any culture at least
now-a-days the opponents--you
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don't find you know, Obama
challenging the person who's
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running against him to a dual or
to a sword fight or even to an
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arm wrestling match.
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These guys don't
engage in a physical battle.
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When you watch a political
war occur when the Presidential
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debate for
example was taking place.
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Its two guys with suits and ties
standing behind pulpits--behind
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podiums.
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And what are they
shooting at one another?
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>>Words.
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>>Yeah words.
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>>Ideas.
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>>Ideas concepts and really
those ideas and concepts come
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down to something very basic.
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Each of the opponents is
basically representing what they
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stand for and what they
purported to bringing to the
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people as a
superior form of governance.
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And then in our political system
it always goes in the direction
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of character assassination.
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So the words that are being shot
back and forth are words that
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are claiming to represent--I'm
representing myself as a
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political candidate.
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And this guy.
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You don't want him governing
because I'll tell you some
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things about him and the effort
is is lower the estimation of
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the people's opinion in the
opinion polls as we call them so
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that the political war
can be won by the opponent.
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>>Smear campaign.
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>>It's a smear campaign
propaganda campaign and that's
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what's going on here in the
universe when the bible says war
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or polemos broke out in heaven
it means a political battle
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erupted in the angelic community
or the angelic society.
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>>I want to just add something.
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I love everything you said there
and I think you did a very good
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job articulating it.
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Basically the two candidates or
in this case the war that breaks
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out between God and the dragon
is two basic views of reality.
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That's what the two--the
two candidates see the world
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differently and they're
essentially saying my way of
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viewing the world is a superior
way to viewing the world then my
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opponents.
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So you have not just on
issues but those issues are a
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reflection of just totally
different ways of viewing the
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nature of reality and as we're
gonna discover here the dragon
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or Satan's view of reality--view
of God is such that he sees God
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as overbearing.
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He sees God as controlling.
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He sees God as exercising
and unwarranted sovereignty and
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control.
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>>And restrictions.
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>>And restrictions--exactly,
so--so what we're gonna see here
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is that the question at least
in this particular political
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debate.
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This is an American political
debate or another country's
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political debate.
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This is--The data over which
they're debating here is the
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nature of God's
character and governance.
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>>In the text itself before
we move from Revelation 12--just
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don't want to lose there's
another word that is used in the
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text that tells us the
nature of this warfare.
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War broke out
in heaven, polemos.
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But then in verse 9 it says that
Satan deceives the whole world.
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So the word
deceives is employed.
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Right?
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>>Deception.
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>>Yeah deception--this isn't
--this isn't again--the devil
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isn't sharpening
a knife to attack.
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He's not
loading a gun to attack.
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He's not shooting laser
beams out of his fingertips.
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>>Darth Vader like bzzzzz.
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>>It's nothing like
that--it's-it's deception.
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He's spinning a web of ideas
in order to catch his prey.
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>>This is like a movie man it's
like the original epic you know
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like Lord Byron said
truth is stranger than fiction.
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It's just like this is real.
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>>mhmmm.
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>>And this is what happened when
we were talking about in the
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garden.
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God created this world and gave
it to mankind, Adam and Eve.
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And as we read the account
there in Genesis chapter 3 the
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serpent, Satan, the devil came
to Adam and Eve in the Garden
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and started spinning these
lies--trafficking these lies
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about God--about his character.
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Putting forth that God
was restrictive--that God was
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limiting their ability
they would be like him.
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And so this world became
the center of the universe.
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You read about this a little
bit further here in Revelation
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chapter 12 it talks about
how the devil has come down unto
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you--Whoa to the inhabitants of
the earth and sea for the devil.
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>>What verse?
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>>Verse 12 of Revelation 12 for
the devil is come down to you
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having great wrath because
he knows his time is short or he
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has just a short time.
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So in the controversy this earth
has become the center because we
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bought into the lie
in the Garden of Eden.
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We started to believe some
of the things that the devil was
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trafficking about God--about
his character--about love--about
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freedom--about the
restrictiveness that Satan was
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trying to project on
the character of God.
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>>There's a part of that
verse you didn't read maybe on
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purpose.
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The first part of the verse or
did you read it and I missed it
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where it says therefore rejoice.
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>>I skipped it.
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>>Oh heavens and you who dwell
in them which gives the cosmic
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perspective.
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>>Yes.
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>>That is to say that--that.
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>>Heaven is involved.
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>>Yeah heaven is involved but
it is not heaven as in stars and
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suns and galaxies.
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Heavens and you who dwell in
them so the heavens as we talked
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about in a previous
conversation--the heavens are
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populated.
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And in this world is a theater
and in this world something's
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happening--there's a great
controversy in the heaven's.
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>>Are now rejoicing.
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>>Populated heavens are
rejoicing that Satan was cast
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out of their realm.
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But whoa to the
inhabitants of the earth.
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And they're still engaged in
watching the great controversy
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unfold.
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So that one verse takes
in heaven on earth, right?
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The whole cosmic war
between good and evil.
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>>But I think it's really
important here is we build this
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theme and develop this theme
to understand that it's not a
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physical casting out
that they're rejoicing over.
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It is the casting out of
the idea--the casting out of the
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trafficking--the casting out
of the misrepresentation of the
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character of God.
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The heavens are rejoicing not
because the devil's come down to
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this earth and they're-oh
thank goodness he's down there.
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>>Geographically
he's been removed.
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>>Right.
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>>Yeah.
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>>They're
rejoicing because it's clear.
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It--something has become clear
in their minds and hearts about
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his accusations.
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>>Concerning the vote has swung.
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>>That's a great way to say it.
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>>Yes, yes.
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>>The commercial goes you know
this message has been approved
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by God.
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[Laughter]
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>>Those commercials have been
persuasive and the popular vote
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has.
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>>Now that it's moved from
heaven to earth to follow the
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metaphor of
politics straight through.
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The popular vote has been won
in the heavenly society and now
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there's a voting booth on earth.
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And it's called the tree of
the knowledge of good and evil.
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>>Ooooh I like that.
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>>And they're
invited to the voting booth.
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Adam and Eve--humanity
is invited to vote.
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>>There's more than one
candidate and so this is the
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drama.
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>>Could we then--Revelation 12
is built very much on Genesis 3
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because you have the dragon
and the serpent being cast out.
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I think it would be even though
we've been there before it would
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be well for us to at
least go back to Genesis 3 and
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re-establish the
nature of that deception.
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The deception revolved around
certain things about God--about
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his character.
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Two political candidates one is
saying this--one is saying that.
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We have biblical data as to
what the serpent was saying.
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We know what his line is.
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>>Everything you're about to
read is on earth but that's the
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beautiful thing is that we are
drawn to the scene on earth in
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the garden because that gives us
a picture about what happened in
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realms we don't.
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>>Yes, good point.
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>>We don't have access to those
realms and so God has outlined
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what has happened on earth
and that's our reference point.
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That's how it went down up
there--the way that it went.
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So the controversy
simple transferred.
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>>Yeah that's excellent.
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>>So Genesis 3 then.
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>>Genesis 3.
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>>Let's--let's go back there and
summarize what transpired at the
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fall of mankind.
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Um I'll just initiate it by
calling attention to verse 1
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that the serpent approaches with
cunning--with deception--with
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deceptive intent.
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>>Yeah the bible does not--the
bible does not often introduce
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Satan as a super powerful being.
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There are certainly assents in
which he is powerful--relative
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to say to those
of us at this table.
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But relative to God
his power is negligable.
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I mean he's a created being.
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God could just snap
him out of existence.
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So our concern about Satan and
our fear of him--I'm' just using
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that--Our concern about him
should not be that he is strong
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and he's muscular and
he's terrible and that he's
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frightening.
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It's that he's subtle.
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There's a subtlety--There's
a couple scriptures introduced
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that way over and over again.
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>>So he's not this guy
with a pitch fork and with the.
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>>Is that subtle.
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>>With the horns.
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[Laughter]
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>>In other words the caricature
that we invent of Satan--the
00:12:12.60\00:12:15.10
caricature invented of
Satan are most pleasing to him.
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>>That's right.
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It serves his purposes.
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>>Perfectly.
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I think something you said
was to the real heart of the key
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issue on this cosmic war.
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You said that God could
just snap him out of existence.
00:12:26.06\00:12:29.66
Well a lot of people
actually wonder well why not?
00:12:29.66\00:12:33.13
I mean if he's the enemy and
he's done all these dastardly
00:12:33.13\00:12:37.20
things and we're suffering under
his influence why didn't God
00:12:37.20\00:12:41.33
just snap him out of existence
the moment that he began to
00:12:41.33\00:12:46.36
rebel?
00:12:46.36\00:12:47.23
Why not you see
millions--billions of
00:12:47.23\00:12:50.16
angels--Lucifer begins to
level accusations against the
00:12:50.16\00:12:53.00
character of God and
spin his web of deception.
00:12:53.00\00:12:55.53
Why wouldn't God just say what
Lucifer is saying about me is
00:12:55.53\00:12:59.86
false.
00:12:59.86\00:13:00.93
Don't talk about
me like that anymore.
00:13:00.93\00:13:03.23
Snap, out of existence.
00:13:03.23\00:13:04.76
>>That would bring us right back
to our theme of love requires
00:13:04.76\00:13:08.06
freedom--requires risk.
00:13:08.06\00:13:10.56
In other words if God is love
and that love requires freedom
00:13:10.56\00:13:15.06
and that freedom involves this
choice that we have to love or
00:13:15.06\00:13:20.63
not to have.
00:13:20.63\00:13:21.40
And so that we.
00:13:21.40\00:13:22.53
>>To love or not to love.
00:13:22.53\00:13:23.96
>>To love or not to love excuse
me and so we exercise that
00:13:23.96\00:13:26.30
choice.
00:13:26.30\00:13:27.16
We say oh well I
chose not to love God.
00:13:27.16\00:13:29.10
>>Snap.
00:13:29.10\00:13:29.76
>>Oh whoops.
00:13:29.76\00:13:32.30
>>That's force.
00:13:32.30\00:13:33.70
>>Try to imagine the
picture--this is what I
00:13:33.70\00:13:35.33
>>That's Kim.
00:13:35.33\00:13:36.60
>>Yeah try to imagine in your
mind all the angels are standing
00:13:36.60\00:13:41.63
there God says what he's
saying about me isn't true.
00:13:41.63\00:13:44.10
Zap he's gone.
00:13:44.10\00:13:45.20
In that next moment what
are all the angels thinking?
00:13:45.20\00:13:46.56
>>Hmmm.
00:13:46.56\00:13:47.43
>>Yeah.
00:13:47.43\00:13:48.60
>>Don't challenge God.
00:13:48.60\00:13:50.76
Don't say anything different
I think we better watch our P's
00:13:50.76\00:13:54.26
and Q's because we're dealing
here with a kind of power that's
00:13:54.26\00:13:57.73
all about zapping.
00:13:57.73\00:13:58.96
>>You know I was in Vancouver,
Canada and I was interacting
00:13:58.96\00:14:03.10
with this ex-drug
addict who was recovering.
00:14:03.10\00:14:05.56
And he would come to
these meetings-these bible study
00:14:05.56\00:14:11.30
meetings we would have and any
time the subject of God and evil
00:14:11.30\00:14:16.50
would come up he would just like
freak out and he would begin to
00:14:16.50\00:14:20.16
curse and swear and I remember I
would always have to gently walk
00:14:20.16\00:14:23.70
up, grab him, take his
outside and say cool it.
00:14:23.70\00:14:26.16
And his main issue was if I was
God I would shoot the devil in
00:14:26.16\00:14:31.36
the head tonight.
00:14:31.36\00:14:33.23
He would always say that.
00:14:33.23\00:14:34.56
If I was God I
would just blow him away.
00:14:34.56\00:14:37.46
And I remember thinking about
that and thinking man I get
00:14:37.46\00:14:40.16
where he's coming from
like I get it you know.
00:14:40.16\00:14:44.06
He's perplexed.
00:14:44.06\00:14:45.20
And at some point the
conversation led to I asked him
00:14:45.20\00:14:48.53
if God were to shoot the devil
dead today would that solve
00:14:48.53\00:14:55.03
God's problem??
00:14:55.03\00:14:56.36
Would that--tomorrow morning--ok
the devil he's on the
00:14:56.36\00:15:01.13
ground--his brains
are across the floor.
00:15:01.13\00:15:03.00
Tomorrow morning is there
no--are there not prostitutes
00:15:03.00\00:15:08.00
tomorrow--is there no
drug addicts under the
00:15:08.00\00:15:10.00
bridge--tomorrow morning is
everything perfect on earth?--Is
00:15:10.00\00:15:14.63
evil gone?
00:15:14.63\00:15:16.13
And he thought about it
first he said guess not.
00:15:16.13\00:15:21.43
He said the problem that God
has is not with the guy with the
00:15:21.43\00:15:24.26
pitchfork and the horns.
00:15:24.26\00:15:25.46
God's issue is floating
around between your ears.
00:15:25.46\00:15:28.30
The issue God is dealing with
is in our minds because--so the
00:15:28.30\00:15:32.00
voice in Genesis is introduced
these false concepts of God so
00:15:32.00\00:15:36.56
that's what he's up against.
00:15:36.56\00:15:38.76
And at the end of the day in
the last conversation we read
00:15:38.76\00:15:41.10
Philippians 2.
00:15:41.10\00:15:42.23
Tell me how you feel
about this--tell me if I'm on to
00:15:42.23\00:15:44.43
something.
00:15:44.43\00:15:45.70
In Philippians 2 this idea of
the Messiah coming to this world
00:15:45.70\00:15:52.10
and representing God.
00:15:52.10\00:15:53.30
At the end of that it says
every knee will bow of those in
00:15:53.30\00:15:57.23
heaven, on earth and under
the earth and every tongue will
00:15:57.23\00:16:00.73
confess Jesus Christ is Lord
to the glory of God the Father.
00:16:00.73\00:16:05.83
So check this out.
00:16:05.83\00:16:07.16
The problem that God has is
not that his muscles are not big
00:16:07.16\00:16:11.53
enough to remove
sin from the world.
00:16:11.53\00:16:13.96
What God wants is for sin to bow
the knee--for evil to bow the
00:16:13.96\00:16:18.46
knee.
00:16:18.46\00:16:19.36
So in the end.
00:16:19.36\00:16:20.60
>>By way of evidence?
00:16:20.60\00:16:22.93
>>By way of the fact that God's
character would have been what's
00:16:22.93\00:16:25.50
the word I'm looking for?
00:16:25.50\00:16:27.80
>>Vindicated?
00:16:27.80\00:16:29.66
>>Vindicated.
00:16:29.66\00:16:30.56
>>Exohonorated?
00:16:30.56\00:16:31.83
>>Yeah in the end and what we've
been saying here that God is not
00:16:31.83\00:16:34.26
going to win the
war--not by force.
00:16:34.26\00:16:36.40
>>Not by
position but by influence.
00:16:36.40\00:16:39.43
>>Yeah by the virtue of his
character so in the end evil
00:16:39.43\00:16:41.86
would be allowed to
play its full course out.
00:16:41.86\00:16:45.00
So that the entire
universe would see, ok yeah I'm
00:16:45.00\00:16:49.70
voting--I'm voting
for candidate number 1.
00:16:49.70\00:16:51.60
And then in that sense
God would have conquered evil.
00:16:51.60\00:16:54.96
Because of the
virtue of his character.
00:16:54.96\00:16:57.13
I think it's
important to high light.
00:16:57.13\00:16:58.60
It's not an issue of power.
00:16:58.60\00:17:01.36
It's not an issue of
just this person called Satan.
00:17:01.36\00:17:03.73
The issue is also in the
deceptions that have been
00:17:03.73\00:17:07.40
introduced into our own minds.
00:17:07.40\00:17:08.66
>>And I think we--I love what
you say there Jeffrey--I think
00:17:08.66\00:17:10.90
we've also at times we overplay
Satan's influence in the world.
00:17:10.90\00:17:14.90
Satan was the originator of sin.
00:17:14.90\00:17:18.40
But we are now participants in
sin==participants in rebellion.
00:17:18.40\00:17:22.33
Every bit as much
as the angels or Satan.
00:17:22.33\00:17:25.93
>>We got the virus.
00:17:25.93\00:17:27.33
>>He pushed the
snowball down the hill.
00:17:27.33\00:17:29.56
He got it going.
00:17:29.56\00:17:30.83
But we're now caught up in the
wake of that such that and I've
00:17:30.83\00:17:32.96
said the same thing too.
00:17:32.96\00:17:34.23
If the devil were to die tonight
by some means supernatural or
00:17:34.23\00:17:37.46
natural or
whatever--hypothetically--we
00:17:37.46\00:17:40.56
know that that's
not going to happen.
00:17:40.56\00:17:41.93
That doesn't solve the problems
of the world because I've got
00:17:41.93\00:17:44.26
devil like thinking--selfish
thinking between my ears and so
00:17:44.26\00:17:47.83
do you and so do you and so
do billions of people--so do the
00:17:47.83\00:17:50.60
fallen angels.
00:17:50.60\00:17:52.00
So the problem you're exactly
correct in identifying the
00:17:52.00\00:17:55.13
solution will be
proportionate--commensurate the
00:17:55.13\00:18:00.20
diagnosis.--And the diagnosis is
not--it's not an issue of power.
00:18:00.20\00:18:03.26
It's an issue of persuasion
or conviction and love.
00:18:03.26\00:18:07.93
>>Jeffrey you mentioned and
David you just mentioned that
00:18:07.93\00:18:10.66
the issue God is dealing
with is between our ears.
00:18:10.66\00:18:13.00
We want to share the
story of a lady that we met in
00:18:13.00\00:18:18.36
Africa--James and I
did and her name's Barbara.
00:18:18.36\00:18:22.33
And she has an incredible story.
00:18:22.33\00:18:24.43
And it all
happened between her ears.
00:18:24.43\00:18:27.23
It all happened--she encountered
ideas about God--concepts about
00:18:27.23\00:18:34.73
God--insights to God's love.
00:18:34.73\00:18:36.40
And it radically impacted her
thinking and the weapons if you
00:18:36.40\00:18:42.00
will that were used
were words on paper.
00:18:42.00\00:18:45.90
Literature was given to her and
it radically transformed the way
00:18:45.90\00:18:52.40
she thinks and feels about God.
00:18:52.40\00:18:54.46
So let's look
at Barbara's story.
00:18:54.46\00:18:56.00
>>I was really looking
for happiness because you know
00:18:56.00\00:19:05.76
teenagers they think happiness
is in drinking beer, clubbing.
00:19:05.76\00:19:09.46
Well I became an alcoholic when
I was very young at the age of
00:19:09.46\00:19:17.23
16.
00:19:17.23\00:19:18.36
A lot of times when I go
clubbing I used to drink a lot
00:19:18.36\00:19:22.53
of alcohol.
00:19:22.53\00:19:23.86
Different men used to take
me out when I'm drunk I go with
00:19:23.86\00:19:27.46
them.
00:19:27.46\00:19:29.06
When I used to club I used
to smoke and do all of those bad
00:19:29.06\00:19:33.46
things.
00:19:33.46\00:19:34.83
I didn't find happiness at all.
00:19:34.83\00:19:37.36
When I became in contact with
the VOP's I-I became a changed
00:19:37.36\00:19:46.26
person.
00:19:46.26\00:19:47.36
I started going through
them--started studying them
00:19:47.36\00:19:50.93
answering questions.
00:19:50.93\00:19:52.56
That's when I knew that the bad
life I had was not good at all.
00:19:52.56\00:19:58.36
[Music]
00:19:58.36\00:20:05.26
As I was reading I came
across a very important verse
00:20:05.26\00:20:09.43
Hebrews chapter 9 verse 28.
00:20:09.43\00:20:11.53
That verse touched me.
00:20:11.53\00:20:13.73
It says Jesus Christ was once
a sacrifice to take the sins of
00:20:13.73\00:20:21.33
many and he will appear again
for the second time not bear
00:20:21.33\00:20:26.66
sin.
00:20:26.66\00:20:29.06
But to bring salvation to
everyone who is waiting for him.
00:20:29.06\00:20:32.40
And definitely I am one of those
people who is waiting for him.
00:20:32.40\00:20:37.43
[Music]
00:20:37.43\00:20:45.83
>>To partner with Light Bearers
in spreading the gospel visit us
00:20:45.83\00:20:48.60
online at lightbearers.org
or call us toll free at
00:20:48.60\00:20:52.80
1-877-585-1111.
00:20:52.80\00:20:55.86
You can also write to us
at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper
00:20:55.86\00:21:01.00
Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438.
00:21:01.00\00:21:04.76
[Music]
00:21:04.76\00:21:14.86
>>So the devils obviously not
the guy with the pitchfork and
00:21:14.86\00:21:18.80
the horns.
00:21:18.80\00:21:20.03
We've been talking about the
fact that God's problem is far
00:21:20.03\00:21:23.13
more profound than what
we often make it out to be.
00:21:23.13\00:21:26.10
We over simplify.
00:21:26.10\00:21:27.23
If I were God I would zap him.
00:21:27.23\00:21:29.33
And the reality is that the
world is a messed up place and I
00:21:29.33\00:21:32.80
made a comment in our last
conversation about the fact that
00:21:32.80\00:21:37.46
were the devil to die tonight
tomorrow the world would remain
00:21:37.46\00:21:41.86
the same.
00:21:41.86\00:21:43.06
And I mentioned the prostitute,
the drug dealer under the
00:21:43.06\00:21:45.36
bridge.
00:21:45.36\00:21:46.50
But in mentioning these
different people--I'm talking
00:21:46.50\00:21:48.30
about the victimization.
00:21:48.30\00:21:50.46
Is that even a word?
00:21:50.46\00:21:51.83
The victimization of the world
that these are victims and we're
00:21:51.83\00:21:57.56
all part of this world
and Genesis chapter 3 actually
00:21:57.56\00:22:01.86
records.
00:22:01.86\00:22:02.66
>>Let me just say
00:22:02.66\00:22:04.13
>>this process here
00:22:04.13\00:22:05.23
>>Before you look at
Genesis 2 that I appreciate that
00:22:05.23\00:22:07.23
clarification on a
very personal level.
00:22:07.23\00:22:09.60
That when we mention the
prostitutes, the drug addicts
00:22:09.60\00:22:12.93
under the bridge whatever that
kind of--that--that language.
00:22:12.93\00:22:17.10
I appreciate the clarification a
lot because my mother was a drug
00:22:17.10\00:22:20.13
addict.
00:22:20.13\00:22:21.40
She was never homeless but she
was a drug addict and I knew as
00:22:21.40\00:22:28.46
a kid although I didn't
have the language to wrap
00:22:28.46\00:22:31.56
around--victimization.
00:22:31.56\00:22:33.16
I knew, check this
out--this was amazing.
00:22:33.16\00:22:36.33
I learned this
when I was a teenager.
00:22:36.33\00:22:38.26
I didn't even know this.
00:22:38.26\00:22:39.56
But when my mom and dad--my
biological father separated my
00:22:39.56\00:22:44.13
mom explained to me later that
the reason they separated is
00:22:44.13\00:22:47.70
because my mom
gave him an ultimatum.
00:22:47.70\00:22:50.76
The ultimatum was that they were
young and they were you know
00:22:50.76\00:22:55.60
partying and whatever and
here comes this baby--that's me.
00:22:55.60\00:23:00.16
And she tells him I don't want
to continue this life of, you
00:23:00.16\00:23:04.40
know, well mainly him.
00:23:04.40\00:23:06.23
She wasn't really into drugs.
00:23:06.23\00:23:08.80
She was socially drinking.
00:23:08.80\00:23:10.13
But she wasn't a drug addict.
00:23:10.13\00:23:12.10
But my biological father was
a heavy drug user from what she
00:23:12.10\00:23:16.96
told me.
00:23:16.96\00:23:18.23
And she said, you know, we have
a baby now and you need to stop
00:23:18.23\00:23:21.33
this.
00:23:21.33\00:23:23.06
We need to settle
down have a family.
00:23:23.06\00:23:24.13
We need to be responsible now.
00:23:24.13\00:23:26.00
And he just kept saying yeah,
yeah, yeah but then continuing
00:23:26.00\00:23:29.23
on as a party animal.
00:23:29.23\00:23:30.56
And my mom left my biological
father in order to move away
00:23:30.56\00:23:35.70
from drugs and alcohol.
00:23:35.70\00:23:37.26
Then my mom married a guy
my step-father and he was an
00:23:37.26\00:23:43.63
alcoholic or became one
along the way and was abusive.
00:23:43.63\00:23:47.00
And then my mom became an
alcoholic and a drug addict in
00:23:47.00\00:23:50.70
order to cope with the abuse and
the pain that was continually
00:23:50.70\00:23:55.13
being put upon here.
00:23:55.13\00:23:57.70
I watched my mom.
00:23:57.70\00:23:58.90
>>It was a coping mechanism.
00:23:58.90\00:24:00.13
>>Yeah it was a
coping mechanism.
00:24:00.13\00:24:01.36
So she was, Jeffrey--she was
in fact--she was, you know, a
00:24:01.36\00:24:05.66
sinner like all of us.
00:24:05.66\00:24:06.90
But she was a victim of what
was coming her way and she coped
00:24:06.90\00:24:10.26
with it by becoming--my mom you
know--I just cringe to say it.
00:24:10.26\00:24:15.03
But my mom was an
alcoholic and a drug addict.
00:24:15.03\00:24:17.63
Praise God the last three
years of her life she completely
00:24:17.63\00:24:21.46
stopped using drugs and alcohol
and became a just a vibrant
00:24:21.46\00:24:26.93
Christian.
00:24:26.93\00:24:28.66
She loved the Lord.
00:24:28.66\00:24:29.60
>>Hallelujah.
00:24:29.60\00:24:30.43
>>Yeah so I
appreciate that a lot.
00:24:30.43\00:24:31.66
I appreciate that clarification
because all of that's in my
00:24:31.66\00:24:35.06
history.
00:24:35.06\00:24:36.56
>>So the history of Genesis 3
is in many ways the story of the
00:24:36.56\00:24:40.73
first deception and
the first victimization.
00:24:40.73\00:24:44.13
But it's not a
victimization of control.
00:24:44.13\00:24:46.16
It's not of
power or of strength.
00:24:46.16\00:24:49.16
It's of
manipulation--psychological
00:24:49.16\00:24:51.03
manipulation.
00:24:51.03\00:24:52.53
>>That's a great way to say it.
00:24:52.53\00:24:53.50
>>We've been--we've
been there haven't we?
00:24:53.50\00:24:55.56
We sort of talked about
the three parts--the tripod of
00:24:55.56\00:24:58.50
deception and the first there
was where Satan the serpent said
00:24:58.50\00:25:03.36
to Eve has God really said you
shall not eat of every tree of
00:25:03.36\00:25:07.63
the garden?
00:25:07.63\00:25:08.90
Suggesting that there was this
vast horizon of restriction but
00:25:08.90\00:25:12.50
only modicum of freedom when
in fact the opposite was true.
00:25:12.50\00:25:15.73
God had given huge freedom of
every tree of the garden you may
00:25:15.73\00:25:18.66
freely eat.
00:25:18.66\00:25:19.53
But just this one, don't.
00:25:19.53\00:25:20.70
So suggesting that God
is unclear and that he's
00:25:20.70\00:25:23.86
withholding and
that he's restrictive.
00:25:23.86\00:25:25.26
He then transitions--now
this is just review for us.
00:25:25.26\00:25:28.03
But we're talking about a war.
00:25:28.03\00:25:29.93
And if we want to know
what happened up there.
00:25:29.93\00:25:32.30
This is a really good insight
as to his M-O, Satan's M-O.
00:25:32.30\00:25:36.20
Then he says in the day that
you eat of that tree you're not
00:25:36.20\00:25:39.20
gonna die.
00:25:39.20\00:25:40.10
Translation God has lied to you.
00:25:40.10\00:25:41.76
God is not trust worthy.
00:25:41.76\00:25:42.96
He doesn't love you.
00:25:42.96\00:25:44.20
He's trying to control you
or manipulate you for purposes
00:25:44.20\00:25:46.73
napharius implied of his own.
00:25:46.73\00:25:48.66
And then the third leg of the
tripod is where he just comes
00:25:48.66\00:25:52.86
right out and says
this is what it's about.
00:25:52.86\00:25:54.63
He knows that in the day that
you eat of this tree you'll be
00:25:54.63\00:25:59.26
like him.
00:25:59.26\00:26:00.10
You'll be like God.
00:26:00.10\00:26:01.36
So you have this sort of God is
a with holder and restrictive.
00:26:01.36\00:26:04.90
He's unclear.
00:26:04.90\00:26:05.83
You have God is untrustworthy.
00:26:05.83\00:26:07.63
He doesn't love you.
00:26:07.63\00:26:08.63
He's manipulating you.
00:26:08.63\00:26:09.76
And the reason is he's
self-serving he's looking out
00:26:09.76\00:26:12.23
for number one.
00:26:12.23\00:26:13.50
All of this and this was our big
point a couple of discussions
00:26:13.50\00:26:16.86
ago.
00:26:16.86\00:26:17.73
And I hope our
listeners will get this.
00:26:17.73\00:26:19.00
All of that psychological attack
and all of that psychological
00:26:19.00\00:26:23.70
reorientation comes before
the physical act of sinning.
00:26:23.70\00:26:27.96
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:26:27.96\00:26:29.36
>>The point is not.
00:26:29.36\00:26:30.30
>>That's crucial to get that.
00:26:30.30\00:26:31.40
>>Taking .
00:26:31.40\00:26:32.13
>>That's the effect.
00:26:32.13\00:26:33.13
>>That's right.
00:26:33.13\00:26:33.90
>>That's the effect.
00:26:33.90\00:26:35.16
>>yeah we have another insight
to the psychological nature of
00:26:35.16\00:26:38.76
this warfare and the fact that
it was a complete distortion of
00:26:38.76\00:26:44.10
the character of God that was
deposited in human thoughts and
00:26:44.10\00:26:47.66
feelings.
00:26:47.66\00:26:49.43
We have another insight to that
in Job 1 because here we have
00:26:49.43\00:26:52.93
verse 6.
00:26:52.93\00:26:55.00
Just listen to this and see if
you--you--you agree that there's
00:26:55.00\00:26:59.40
something more here than really
meets the eye on the surface.
00:26:59.40\00:27:03.66
It says there was a day when
the sons of God came to present
00:27:03.66\00:27:06.60
themselves
before the Lord-verse 6.
00:27:06.60\00:27:08.36
And Satan came also among them.
00:27:08.36\00:27:10.60
So the picture is Satan is
now showing up in this heavenly
00:27:10.60\00:27:14.40
conclave--this heavenly
parliament--this meeting before
00:27:14.40\00:27:18.56
God.
00:27:18.56\00:27:19.80
So they're all together and
the devil proceeds to level an
00:27:19.80\00:27:24.20
accusation and
here's--here's where it goes.
00:27:24.20\00:27:26.30
The Lord said to Satan
where do you come from?
00:27:26.30\00:27:29.80
Satan said I come
from earth that's verse 7.
00:27:29.80\00:27:31.93
Verse 8 the Lord said to
Satan but have you considered my
00:27:31.93\00:27:35.86
servant Job?
00:27:35.86\00:27:37.26
So God points to a human
being as if to say he's my true
00:27:37.26\00:27:40.90
representation on earth.
00:27:40.90\00:27:42.90
You're here purporting
to represent planet earth.
00:27:42.90\00:27:44.73
But I value what I see taking
place in Job and he's my true
00:27:44.73\00:27:48.53
man.
00:27:48.53\00:27:49.53
Ok and then the devil
begins his accusation.
00:27:49.53\00:27:52.80
And he says in verse 9 does Job
fear or reverence or serve God
00:27:52.80\00:27:58.73
for nothing?
00:27:58.73\00:28:00.06
Question mark again.
00:28:00.06\00:28:01.33
He's into this question mark
on God and he says does God--Job
00:28:01.33\00:28:06.63
fear God for nothing?
00:28:06.63\00:28:08.73
And then he says have you not
made a hedge about him--around
00:28:08.73\00:28:11.00
him--his household around
all that he has on every side.
00:28:11.00\00:28:13.80
You have blessed the work of his
hands and his possessions have
00:28:13.80\00:28:18.10
increased in the land.
00:28:18.10\00:28:22.06
But now stretch out your hand
and touch all that he has and he
00:28:22.06\00:28:24.40
will surely
curse you to your face.
00:28:24.40\00:28:26.73
What the devil basically just
said is--is God you have bought
00:28:26.73\00:28:32.33
Job's loyalty and affection and
trust and whatever you got from
00:28:32.33\00:28:37.66
Job you've purchased with
stuff with material blessings.
00:28:37.66\00:28:41.76
But if you take all the stuff
away--the material blessings
00:28:41.76\00:28:45.30
away he'll curse you because
Job isn't serving you because of
00:28:45.30\00:28:49.86
something that's intrinsically
worthy of being serve that he
00:28:49.86\00:28:54.50
sees in you.
00:28:54.50\00:28:55.46
He's basically
prostituting himself to you.
00:28:55.46\00:28:56.96
He's giving service to you.
00:28:56.96\00:29:00.26
>>That's good though.
00:29:00.26\00:29:02.60
>>He's-He's serving you
because you've bought him off.
00:29:02.60\00:29:04.43
So two motives
are in contrast here.
00:29:04.43\00:29:08.26
God is claiming that Job
and I have something going on.
00:29:08.26\00:29:11.60
And the basis of it is love.
00:29:11.60\00:29:14.43
>>Loyalty and love.
00:29:14.43\00:29:15.66
>>Loyalty, love and trust.
00:29:15.66\00:29:17.06
And the devil is saying no, no,
no that's not what's going on.
00:29:17.06\00:29:19.06
What's going on here is that
you're self-serving and he's
00:29:19.06\00:29:22.46
self-serving and you've got an
arrangement going where you're
00:29:22.46\00:29:25.90
scratching one another's backs.
00:29:25.90\00:29:26.96
>>Ok now that is awesome.
00:29:26.96\00:29:28.33
That is so true.
00:29:28.33\00:29:29.76
But I got to speak to this now.
00:29:29.76\00:29:31.50
This is not just a conversation
between Job or excuse me between
00:29:31.50\00:29:36.03
Satan and God because if that
were the case God could then
00:29:36.03\00:29:39.00
just leverage his omniscience
and say I really know what's
00:29:39.00\00:29:42.90
going on and you don't really
know what's going on by virtue
00:29:42.90\00:29:45.10
of the fact I am God
and you're not omniscient.
00:29:45.10\00:29:47.76
However, the other players here
are those listening in who don't
00:29:47.76\00:29:52.80
have the gift that God has--the
natural innate ability of
00:29:52.80\00:29:57.10
knowing the truth.
00:29:57.10\00:29:58.36
So now an accusation has been
levied and God here can either
00:29:58.36\00:30:01.53
grab Satan by the neck and wring
his neck and say what I'm saying
00:30:01.53\00:30:05.73
is true.
00:30:05.73\00:30:06.86
Now that's an option his
power or just snap him out of
00:30:06.86\00:30:09.83
existence as we've talked about.
00:30:09.83\00:30:10.83
Or he can look
around and say ok.
00:30:10.83\00:30:13.10
This is an accusation.
00:30:13.10\00:30:15.16
>>There's a jury here.
00:30:15.16\00:30:16.70
>>There's a jury
here so let's see.
00:30:16.70\00:30:18.33
And the rest of the book of
Job is the playing out of God
00:30:18.33\00:30:21.33
answering the accusation of
Satan not with his might but by
00:30:21.33\00:30:26.30
allowing evil to play its course
and seeing where Job's loyalty
00:30:26.30\00:30:31.40
really lies.
00:30:31.40\00:30:34.86
Is it because the goodies.
00:30:34.86\00:30:37.70
Is it because of the stuff?
00:30:37.70\00:30:39.03
Or is it because of
which God is himself.
00:30:39.03\00:30:40.30
>>Phillip Yancy
calls this the wager.
00:30:40.30\00:30:41.23
>>The wager?
00:30:41.23\00:30:42.30
>>Yeah this is a wager
between God and the devil.
00:30:42.30\00:30:43.56
Not in the simplistic sense of
a bet but in the sense of there
00:30:43.56\00:30:47.96
are two claims being made.
00:30:47.96\00:30:49.83
Let's play it out.
00:30:49.83\00:30:50.90
Let's see what the truth
of the matter actually is.
00:30:50.90\00:30:53.46
>>Isn't it fascinating to you
that God's reply in his defense
00:30:53.46\00:30:58.83
is pointing to a human being
and saying check out what's
00:30:58.83\00:31:03.30
happening in the war that's
raging in his heart and in his
00:31:03.30\00:31:08.66
mind.
00:31:08.66\00:31:09.86
And check out who's on the
throne of his heart and mind.
00:31:09.86\00:31:14.43
So God's defense in court is by
pointing to the human race and
00:31:14.43\00:31:20.20
saying you should consider
that little piece of data right
00:31:20.20\00:31:23.93
there.
00:31:23.93\00:31:24.93
>>Ok
00:31:24.93\00:31:25.50
>>That's powerful.
00:31:25.50\00:31:26.40
>>Ok I've gotta
bring something here.
00:31:26.40\00:31:27.40
I hope this works.
00:31:27.40\00:31:28.63
I want you to tell me if you
think this is awesome or not.
00:31:28.63\00:31:30.06
[Laughing]
00:31:30.06\00:31:31.23
>>Is there anything-is
there anything in between David.
00:31:31.23\00:31:33.43
It's awesome or not.
00:31:33.43\00:31:34.66
Is it ok to say
well that's alright.
00:31:34.66\00:31:36.70
>>I don't know if it's
going to be as awesome as that.
00:31:36.70\00:31:38.96
>>yeah, yeah,
yeah I know, I know.
00:31:38.96\00:31:40.70
>>Today
00:31:40.70\00:31:41.93
>>Ok so here's--you mentioned
earlier Ty that God could've
00:31:41.93\00:31:45.03
just snapped Satan out of
existence and we just said here
00:31:45.03\00:31:47.63
God could've wrung
Satan's neck so to speak.
00:31:47.63\00:31:49.90
Ok and you said that there would
have just been a puff of smoke.
00:31:49.90\00:31:53.20
But then all the angels would
have said oh but we'll--now
00:31:53.20\00:31:55.26
we'll serve God out of fear that
we don't want to be snapped out
00:31:55.26\00:31:59.40
of existence rather from love.
00:31:59.40\00:32:00.96
Ok but--but we have to remember
we're dealing with an omnipotent
00:32:00.96\00:32:03.53
being here.
00:32:03.53\00:32:04.80
A being who has the resources of
every possible option available
00:32:04.80\00:32:08.53
to him.
00:32:08.53\00:32:09.80
So he could have done something
even more subtle and persuasive
00:32:09.80\00:32:14.80
and that is this: he could've
just thought Satan out of
00:32:14.80\00:32:17.70
existence and then
with his power removed.
00:32:17.70\00:32:20.93
>>I know where you are going.
00:32:20.93\00:32:23.36
>He could've removed any memory
of Satan so that--now--now
00:32:23.36\00:32:25.70
here's where this gets really
amazing so that the angels would
00:32:25.70\00:32:28.83
be blissfully unaware.
00:32:28.83\00:32:29.76
There would be no
question of loyalty.
00:32:29.76\00:32:31.43
Now watch this I've got
these--we've got these magnets
00:32:31.43\00:32:35.56
at the table here to play with.
00:32:35.56\00:32:37.03
So it would be a
little bit like this.
00:32:37.03\00:32:38.26
Ok let's just say that--that
behind the scene-I'm going to
00:32:38.26\00:32:41.10
take these heavier magnets here
and I'm going to put them under
00:32:41.10\00:32:42.96
the table so I can--Can
you get a shot of that Jim?
00:32:42.96\00:32:45.00
So that I can move but if
you didn't know that I had the
00:32:45.00\00:32:48.76
magnets under the table it would
look like this thing is moving
00:32:48.76\00:32:51.16
on its own.
00:32:51.16\00:32:52.00
Right?
00:32:52.00\00:32:53.96
So if God goes behind the scene
so to speak which he can do for
00:32:53.96\00:32:57.40
any one of us.
00:32:57.40\00:32:58.56
Right now he can make you
think any thought you want.
00:32:58.56\00:33:00.43
He can remove any memory that
you've had any affecting or any
00:33:00.43\00:33:02.40
part of your
personality he can manipulate.
00:33:02.40\00:33:05.10
So he can just go behind the
scenes and do whatever he wants.
00:33:05.10\00:33:09.30
>>And nobody would
know the difference.
00:33:09.30\00:33:11.20
>>And nobody would
know the difference.
00:33:11.20\00:33:12.26
Now let me ask
you this question.
00:33:12.26\00:33:13.53
Here's the question-And you're
already on to it but I'm gonna
00:33:13.53\00:33:15.93
ask it anyway for our listeners.
00:33:15.93\00:33:17.16
Who is the only one who would
know what's really going on?
00:33:17.16\00:33:22.06
The only one who would know?
00:33:22.06\00:33:23.30
[Simultaneously] God
00:33:23.30\00:33:24.60
>>Ok so who gets jipped then?
00:33:24.60\00:33:26.46
Who's the one that gets jipped?
00:33:26.46\00:33:28.96
God himself knows that if
he begins to manipulate in that
00:33:28.96\00:33:32.60
absolutely subtle and undetected
way the one who suffers is God.
00:33:32.60\00:33:36.96
And what he longs for are real
relationships with real people
00:33:36.96\00:33:39.96
which require real love and
real freedom and real risks.
00:33:39.96\00:33:43.03
God could manipulate the
circumstances to where it looks
00:33:43.03\00:33:47.13
to everybody in a robotic
fashion as if all is well.
00:33:47.13\00:33:50.53
>>Except for him.
00:33:50.53\00:33:52.06
>>Except for him the
one that gets robbed.
00:33:52.06\00:33:54.26
>>Price too high to pay.
00:33:54.26\00:33:56.53
To high.
00:33:56.53\00:33:57.80
>>Not only does God get robbed
but another way of saying it is
00:33:57.80\00:33:59.83
if God were to just.
00:33:59.83\00:34:01.00
>>That's awesome.
00:34:01.00\00:34:01.93
>>That is awesome.
00:34:01.93\00:34:03.03
>>Ok whoooooo.
00:34:03.03\00:34:04.20
>>On the continuum--on the
spectrum from awesome to not
00:34:04.20\00:34:06.33
that's awesome.
00:34:06.33\00:34:08.30
>>That was amazing.
00:34:08.30\00:34:09.60
[Talking over one another]
00:34:09.60\00:34:11.00
>>Here's the thing not only does
God as you say jipped--not only
00:34:11.00\00:34:13.80
does he get robbed but--but God
in himself would be submitting
00:34:13.80\00:34:24.43
to a value system or an exercise
of principles and characters
00:34:24.43\00:34:29.63
that's completely
contrary to who God is.
00:34:29.63\00:34:35.36
>>That was Jeffrey's
point in our last conversation.
00:34:35.36\00:34:37.23
Not only.
00:34:37.23\00:34:38.20
>>Does he not want to?
00:34:38.20\00:34:39.33
>>He just wouldn't.
00:34:39.33\00:34:40.56
That's not the kind of--a
virtue--a virtuoso violinist.
00:34:40.56\00:34:45.83
If I picked up the violin I
could--it would be a disaster.
00:34:45.83\00:34:48.63
But a virtuoso violinist
wouldn't pick up the violin and
00:34:48.63\00:34:51.96
purposely, intentionally play.
00:34:51.96\00:34:54.00
No.
00:34:54.00\00:34:55.66
Naturally what's going to
flow out of him or her--their
00:34:55.66\00:34:58.33
fingers--it's
going to be beautiful.
00:34:58.33\00:35:00.53
Right?
00:35:00.53\00:35:01.70
You wouldn't intentionally
play something that sounded
00:35:01.70\00:35:03.93
discordant and off key and
disharmonious and out of tune
00:35:03.93\00:35:06.93
when you have the capacity to do
something grand and beautiful.
00:35:06.93\00:35:10.03
>>Especially if you love beauty.
00:35:10.03\00:35:12.26
>>You know did we ever in
our earlier conversation we had
00:35:12.26\00:35:16.20
mentioned several times that we
wanted to go to Psalm 27:4 did
00:35:16.20\00:35:20.90
we ever get there?
00:35:20.90\00:35:22.06
>>we never did.
00:35:22.06\00:35:23.30
>>Well this is not a
bad place to go there.
00:35:23.30\00:35:24.86
At least to just mention it.
00:35:24.86\00:35:26.13
David basically says there in
the Psalm-I'll just read it Ty
00:35:26.13\00:35:29.60
and you can launch off on
this or I can launch off on this
00:35:29.60\00:35:33.20
because both of us are saying
man we've got to bring that
00:35:33.20\00:35:35.60
up--we've got to bring that up.
00:35:35.60\00:35:36.60
And this is a great place.
00:35:36.60\00:35:37.80
Psalm 27 verse 4 one thing
I have desired of the Lord and
00:35:37.80\00:35:42.16
that I will seek that I may
dwell in the house of the Lord
00:35:42.16\00:35:44.80
that I may be in fellowship with
him all the days of my life to
00:35:44.80\00:35:47.76
behold the beauty of the Lord
and to inquire in his temple.
00:35:47.76\00:35:52.10
God is beautiful and I love
the idea that God is not just
00:35:52.10\00:35:57.13
God--strong, mighty-
omnipotent-omniscient-
00:35:57.13\00:36:00.16
omni-benevolent and all of the
00:36:00.16\00:36:01.56
attributes all the
omni's. God is beautiful.
00:36:01.56\00:36:05.16
And as a beautiful God of love
and art and creativity he's not
00:36:05.16\00:36:11.80
going to be
satisfied with the little.
00:36:11.80\00:36:14.20
>>Doing
anything under the table.
00:36:14.20\00:36:15.76
>>Right.
00:36:15.76\00:36:16.96
>>And that's funny that we
would say it that way--under the
00:36:16.96\00:36:18.40
table.
00:36:18.40\00:36:19.46
>>Yeah that implies deception.
00:36:19.46\00:36:21.30
Isn't that something?
00:36:21.30\00:36:22.13
>>I'm going to use that.
00:36:22.13\00:36:23.36
>>So what we're suggesting here
is that God is a God of full
00:36:23.36\00:36:26.66
disclosure.
00:36:26.66\00:36:27.50
He's above the table.
00:36:27.50\00:36:28.73
He's playing out all his
attributes right before the
00:36:28.73\00:36:35.36
universe to behold before
humanity and angels so that we
00:36:35.36\00:36:39.13
can all look on--look in--this
just came to my mind Isaiah 5
00:36:39.13\00:36:43.60
God in the local historical
sense is saying hey this is
00:36:43.60\00:36:49.90
everything I've done for Israel.
00:36:49.90\00:36:51.83
They're like a
vineyard that I've planted.
00:36:51.83\00:36:54.26
I've planted this vineyard.
00:36:54.26\00:36:56.50
I've pulled out the stones and
I've cultivated the ground and
00:36:56.50\00:36:59.60
I've planted Israel
as a beautiful grapevine.
00:36:59.60\00:37:02.53
But it brought forth bad grapes.
00:37:02.53\00:37:07.16
And then God says
something interesting.
00:37:07.16\00:37:09.00
>>I love this.
00:37:09.00\00:37:10.26
>>He says--he says judge between
me and my vineyard--between me
00:37:10.26\00:37:16.33
and Israel--judge
between me and them.
00:37:16.33\00:37:18.73
>> Is there anything more?
00:37:18.73\00:37:21.00
>>is there anything more that I
could have done for Israel that
00:37:21.00\00:37:23.43
I have not done.
00:37:23.43\00:37:25.63
So God is inviting judgment.
00:37:25.63\00:37:28.50
He invites inquiry and
he's aiming for full disclosure.
00:37:28.50\00:37:31.73
He wants
everything on the table.
00:37:31.73\00:37:33.80
Nothing under the table.
00:37:33.80\00:37:36.20
>>Authenticity is
not an option with God.
00:37:36.20\00:37:38.33
>>That's right.
00:37:38.33\00:37:39.20
>>It's not an option.
00:37:39.20\00:37:40.46
>>That's right.
00:37:40.46\00:37:41.70
>>I think if everyone's cools
with this I'd like to go to
00:37:41.70\00:37:44.00
Ezekiel 28 which is a passage
that we've been to before.
00:37:44.00\00:37:46.60
But in saying God
is a God of beauty.
00:37:46.60\00:37:49.76
He's a God
that's above the table.
00:37:49.76\00:37:50.96
He's above board.
00:37:50.96\00:37:52.00
He's a God of authenticity.
00:37:52.00\00:37:54.36
We have to then realize that in
this conflict Satan has tools in
00:37:54.36\00:37:57.16
his tool box.
00:37:57.16\00:37:58.43
He has resources that he can use
that are not available to God.
00:37:58.43\00:38:02.56
Right?
00:38:02.56\00:38:03.63
In other words deception,
innuendo, insinuation,
00:38:03.63\00:38:07.96
manipulation.
00:38:07.96\00:38:09.26
>>Coercion.
00:38:09.26\00:38:10.16
>>Coercion and we see this.
00:38:10.16\00:38:11.36
>>Go there fast we got
one minute before the break.
00:38:11.36\00:38:13.23
>>Well then let's just go
afterward because we want to
00:38:13.23\00:38:15.13
spend some time there.
00:38:15.13\00:38:16.36
>>Yeah well Ezekiel 28 though,
we can spend some real time
00:38:16.36\00:38:20.16
there--just--just go and get us
started there at least and then
00:38:20.16\00:38:23.26
we do need to take a
break because of the required.
00:38:23.26\00:38:25.96
>>Yeah I get that.
00:38:25.96\00:38:27.70
>>Alright.
00:38:27.70\00:38:28.73
>>Let's be sure.
00:38:28.73\00:38:29.90
>>To come back.
00:38:29.90\00:38:31.13
>>That we come back because
there's this, as you're aware,
00:38:31.13\00:38:34.76
this weird little word that show
up there in the King James it's
00:38:34.76\00:38:38.23
like merchandiser.
00:38:38.23\00:38:39.90
Its merchandise and
00:38:39.90\00:38:41.23
>>yeah merchandise.
00:38:41.23\00:38:42.86
>>Trafficking and it's like
what?--Where--What is that word
00:38:42.86\00:38:44.56
doing there.
00:38:44.56\00:38:48.03
>>And in a newer King James
Version they actually dealt with
00:38:48.03\00:38:51.06
it by calling it trading.
00:38:51.06\00:38:52.46
>>Trading.
00:38:52.46\00:38:53.40
>>Yeah.
00:38:53.40\00:38:54.66
>>And in the break I'll look up
some other translations and see
00:38:54.66\00:38:55.93
what that word is rendered as.
00:38:55.93\00:38:57.20
>>But basically what we've come
to so far in this conversation
00:38:57.20\00:38:59.83
is that the war that we're
engaged in is a political war
00:38:59.83\00:39:05.26
that's taking place in
the hearts and minds of human
00:39:05.26\00:39:07.30
beings.
00:39:07.30\00:39:08.50
The basic issue in the Great
War between good and evil is
00:39:08.50\00:39:11.46
misrepresentation of the
character of God verses the
00:39:11.46\00:39:15.30
truth about the
character of God.
00:39:15.30\00:39:18.56
And that's the playing field.
00:39:18.56\00:39:21.53
That's the landscape upon
which this war is occurring.
00:39:21.53\00:39:25.30
>>That's right.
00:39:25.30\00:39:27.36
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[Music]
00:40:18.06\00:40:30.16
>>We ended our last conversation
where I was really hoping to get
00:40:30.16\00:40:33.76
to Ezekiel 28 but we
had time constraints.
00:40:33.76\00:40:36.26
But now we're good.
00:40:36.26\00:40:38.06
So let's--let's go take a look
at this verse I was mentioning
00:40:38.06\00:40:40.90
that sort of shows up.
00:40:40.90\00:40:42.33
It's an unusual word and
what I want to do so that we can
00:40:42.33\00:40:45.23
appreciate just how unusual
it is--just sort of read some of
00:40:45.23\00:40:49.00
Ezekiel 28 just very quickly in
context so that when we get to
00:40:49.00\00:40:52.33
that word we can say
whoa that is kind of odd.
00:40:52.33\00:40:54.33
So I'm just going to read
beginning in verse 12 we've been
00:40:54.33\00:40:57.50
here before.
00:40:57.50\00:40:58.73
It says son of man take up a
lamentation for the King of Tyre
00:40:58.73\00:41:01.70
and say thus to him thus says
the Lord God you are the seal of
00:41:01.70\00:41:05.23
perfection full of
wisdom and perfect in beauty.
00:41:05.23\00:41:06.80
This is describing
the fall of Lucifer.
00:41:06.80\00:41:11.06
You were in Eden
the Garden of God.
00:41:11.06\00:41:12.33
Every precious stone was
your covering the Sardis, topaz
00:41:12.33\00:41:14.80
diamond, the barrel onyx and
jasper, sapphire, turquoise and
00:41:14.80\00:41:17.33
emerald with gold.
00:41:17.33\00:41:18.60
The workmanship of your timbrels
and pipes was prepared for you
00:41:18.60\00:41:20.83
on the day you were created.
00:41:20.83\00:41:22.53
You were the anointed cherub
who covers I established you.
00:41:22.53\00:41:24.96
You were on the
holy mountain of God.
00:41:24.96\00:41:27.16
You walked back and
forth in the midst of the fire.
00:41:27.16\00:41:29.50
You were perfect in your
ways from the day that you were
00:41:29.50\00:41:32.53
created till
iniquity was found in you.
00:41:32.53\00:41:34.20
Ok so far so good right?
00:41:34.20\00:41:35.63
Not so good it's actually
so terrible but in terms of our
00:41:35.63\00:41:40.90
understanding.
00:41:40.90\00:41:42.00
It's the fall of Lucifer
and now listen to this--next
00:41:42.00\00:41:45.00
verse--verse 16 by the abundance
of your trading you became
00:41:45.00\00:41:49.80
filled with violence
within and you sinned.
00:41:49.80\00:41:51.80
Therefore I cast you as
a profane thing out of the
00:41:51.80\00:41:55.03
mountain of God.
00:41:55.03\00:41:56.23
I destroyed you oh covering
cherub from the midst of the
00:41:56.23\00:41:58.33
fiery stones.
00:41:58.33\00:41:59.33
Your heart was lifted
up because of your beauty.
00:41:59.33\00:42:01.30
You corrupted your wisdom
for the sake of you splendor.
00:42:01.30\00:42:03.63
I cast you to the ground.
00:42:03.63\00:42:05.16
I laid you before kings
that they might gaze at you.
00:42:05.16\00:42:08.36
You defiled your sanctuaries
by the multitude of your
00:42:08.36\00:42:11.23
iniquities--here it is again.
00:42:11.23\00:42:12.46
By the iniquity of your trading.
00:42:12.46\00:42:14.86
And we could
continue to read on here.
00:42:14.86\00:42:17.73
But isn't it interesting
were God is basically raising a
00:42:17.73\00:42:20.36
series of accusations--you were
perfect--you were perfect--you
00:42:20.36\00:42:22.70
were perfect---and then iniquity
was found in you and you exalted
00:42:22.70\00:42:25.26
your heart by
reason of your splendor.
00:42:25.26\00:42:27.96
And in the midst of all
these sort of understandable
00:42:27.96\00:42:30.23
accusations God says
you know what it was?
00:42:30.23\00:42:32.90
It was your trading.
00:42:32.90\00:42:33.86
It was your trafficking.
00:42:33.86\00:42:35.26
One of the verses there
in the King James it was your
00:42:35.26\00:42:38.90
merchandise.
00:42:38.90\00:42:40.16
Now I remember the first time I
read that I thought what--what?
00:42:40.16\00:42:45.76
So it's like.
00:42:45.76\00:42:46.73
>>What's trading?
00:42:46.73\00:42:47.83
>>yeah that's right like
you were selling something.
00:42:47.83\00:42:49.33
But what was Satan selling?
00:42:49.33\00:42:50.23
He wasn't selling widgets.
00:42:50.23\00:42:51.20
Right he wasn't
selling trinkets.
00:42:51.20\00:42:52.83
>>Drugs, Arms.
00:42:52.83\00:42:55.46
>>no, no, no, no he was selling
the very--we began this program
00:42:55.46\00:42:58.00
by talking about Revelation
12:7 war in heaven--polemos.
00:42:58.00\00:43:01.60
A political war.
00:43:01.60\00:43:03.46
The thing that Satan is
selling here is an idea.
00:43:03.46\00:43:06.96
He's selling a picture.
00:43:06.96\00:43:09.30
He's selling his
version of reality.
00:43:09.30\00:43:12.26
And that version of reality
revolves around the fact that
00:43:12.26\00:43:15.53
God is controlling that
God is manipulative that God is
00:43:15.53\00:43:18.83
coercive that
God is restrictive.
00:43:18.83\00:43:20.16
>>It's his own smear campaign.
00:43:20.16\00:43:22.06
>>It's a smear campaign.
00:43:22.06\00:43:23.40
Now here's a
fascinating little thing here.
00:43:23.40\00:43:25.20
I read an article several
years ago by one of our premier
00:43:25.20\00:43:29.40
theologians and
Dr. Richard Davidson.
00:43:29.40\00:43:32.80
And he said he's a brilliant
Hebrew scholar that the root
00:43:32.80\00:43:36.33
word here--the word is
its recula--this word by your
00:43:36.33\00:43:42.06
trading, by your
trafficking is recula.
00:43:42.06\00:43:44.40
And he said the root word in the
Hebrew is the very same as the
00:43:44.40\00:43:48.10
root word for gossip-to
lie to tell a tall tale.
00:43:48.10\00:43:55.50
>>So we're
engaged in a gossip war?
00:43:55.50\00:43:57.63
>>There's a gossip war.
00:43:57.63\00:44:00.06
What he was selling was gossip
and that's where you remember we
00:44:00.06\00:44:02.43
said that Satan had things in
his tool box that were available
00:44:02.43\00:44:05.73
to him.
00:44:05.73\00:44:06.73
God has truth, honesty,
integrity, authenticity,
00:44:06.73\00:44:11.16
transparency.
00:44:11.16\00:44:12.30
No wonder God wants everything
to be above the table.
00:44:12.30\00:44:13.76
Because God's
character is only above board.
00:44:13.76\00:44:17.20
Where Satan can be down
here a manipulating, creating,
00:44:17.20\00:44:20.16
coercing.
00:44:20.16\00:44:21.46
God says no, no, no, no let's
everything that's dark let's
00:44:21.46\00:44:25.70
turn the lights on.
00:44:25.70\00:44:26.93
Everything that's spoken in
secret let's say it out loud.
00:44:26.93\00:44:29.56
>>New Testament
same idea, alright.
00:44:29.56\00:44:33.50
>>Ok
00:44:33.50\00:44:34.60
>>So fast forward from
the trafficking, trading of
00:44:34.60\00:44:36.53
deceptive ideas in Ezekiel 28
we come to the apostle Paul in 2
00:44:36.53\00:44:41.33
Corinthians.
00:44:41.33\00:44:42.43
>>Yes.
00:44:42.43\00:44:43.16
>>Chapter 4-chapter 4.
00:44:43.16\00:44:44.86
>>Ok I thought you
were going to chapter 10.
00:44:44.86\00:44:46.83
>>Yeah, yeah I could
hear that in your voice.
00:44:46.83\00:44:48.66
Chapter 4 and
starting with verse 3.
00:44:48.66\00:44:51.86
Here's Satan in
chapter 28 of Ezekiel.
00:44:51.86\00:44:56.16
Here's Satan now being discussed
by Paul he says but even if our
00:44:56.16\00:45:00.20
gospel is veiled.
00:45:00.20\00:45:02.40
It is veiled to those who are
perishing whose minds the God of
00:45:02.40\00:45:07.60
this age has blinded who do not
believe lest the light of the
00:45:07.60\00:45:14.36
gospel of the glory of
Christ who is the image of
00:45:14.36\00:45:17.10
God-emphasis-should
shine on them.
00:45:17.10\00:45:20.83
You catch that.
00:45:20.83\00:45:22.96
So, so, so here Paul is
saying--I'll just summarize
00:45:22.96\00:45:26.76
it-Paul is saying that the world
is blinded on a mental level due
00:45:26.76\00:45:33.13
to the lies that Satan has
imposed upon the human mind.
00:45:33.13\00:45:40.23
Notice that the
devil is focused on minds.
00:45:40.23\00:45:43.53
And he is called
here the god of this age.
00:45:43.53\00:45:47.50
And he blinds people's
minds to the image of God.
00:45:47.50\00:45:52.50
And Jesus is the
infinite contrast.
00:45:52.50\00:45:54.76
Jesus is the evidence that God
is bringing to the table so to
00:45:54.76\00:45:59.53
speak.
00:45:59.53\00:46:00.80
Jesus is the above the table
full disclosure that God is
00:46:00.80\00:46:05.76
bringing to the world so that
the light of the glory of the
00:46:05.76\00:46:09.43
image of God should shine into
human minds and illuminate our
00:46:09.43\00:46:14.56
thinking regarding
the character of God.
00:46:14.56\00:46:16.33
Verse 6 for it is the God who
commanded the light to shine out
00:46:16.33\00:46:23.13
of darkness who has shown
in our hearts exactly where the
00:46:23.13\00:46:25.96
controversy is going on
to give the light that is the
00:46:25.96\00:46:29.13
information--the data--the
insight of the knowledge of the
00:46:29.13\00:46:32.40
glory of God in the
face of Jesus Christ.
00:46:32.40\00:46:36.23
So Jesus is the one through whom
the truth about God's character
00:46:36.23\00:46:41.06
is revealed in contrast to the
blinding deception of Satan--his
00:46:41.06\00:46:47.10
trading--his traffic.
00:46:47.10\00:46:48.66
>>As to who God is.
00:46:48.66\00:46:50.60
>>Isn't that amazing?
00:46:50.60\00:46:51.36
>>Totally.
00:46:51.36\00:46:52.60
>>So you have a harmony here
Paul is thinking exactly like
00:46:52.60\00:46:53.63
this description in Ezekiel 28.
00:46:53.63\00:46:56.70
>>And it says
heart and knowledge.
00:46:56.70\00:46:58.36
It seems to encompass
both mental and emotional.
00:46:58.36\00:47:01.00
It's like the way we mentally
think about God and the way we
00:47:01.00\00:47:05.06
feel about God.
00:47:05.06\00:47:06.80
>>Oh I like that mind and heart.
00:47:06.80\00:47:09.26
>>Mind and heart.
00:47:09.26\00:47:09.83
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:47:09.83\00:47:11.10
>>Something that we can't lose
sight of here and we just need
00:47:11.10\00:47:12.36
to allow the sobriety of this
point to--to impress itself upon
00:47:12.36\00:47:16.93
our mind.
00:47:16.93\00:47:18.20
And that is that Paul uses the
strongest possible language here
00:47:18.20\00:47:21.03
for Satan.
00:47:21.03\00:47:22.73
He calls him the god--if I'm
not mistaken it's the very same
00:47:22.73\00:47:27.03
Greek word Sayaws that's used
for God in the rest of the New
00:47:27.03\00:47:29.46
Testament.
00:47:29.46\00:47:30.40
He calls him
the God of this age.
00:47:30.40\00:47:31.73
In other words he's saying that
his power is so significant--his
00:47:31.73\00:47:35.00
manipulative psychological power
is so significant that it is as
00:47:35.00\00:47:37.30
if he is a God like figure
to those whose minds are blinded
00:47:37.30\00:47:42.60
about who the true God is.
00:47:42.60\00:47:44.10
>>Yeah he's
pervasive in his influence.
00:47:44.10\00:47:45.90
First John chapter 5 I think it
is says that the whole world is
00:47:45.90\00:47:50.63
under the sway.
00:47:50.63\00:47:52.06
>>The influence.
00:47:52.06\00:47:54.00
>>of the wicked one.
00:47:54.00\00:47:55.83
Sway.
00:47:55.83\00:47:57.40
>>That really makes sense when
you look a little further on
00:47:57.40\00:47:59.00
here in 2
Corinthians chapter 11.
00:47:59.00\00:48:01.00
2 Corinthians chapter 11
00:48:01.00\00:48:02.80
>>I thought we
were going to 10 ok.
00:48:02.80\00:48:06.30
>>We're going to go back to that
but Satan in this chapter 11
00:48:06.30\00:48:07.90
takes us back to Genesis--takes
us back to the beginning of the
00:48:07.90\00:48:11.40
deception-brings us all
the way through Genesis to this
00:48:11.40\00:48:15.50
conflict.
00:48:15.50\00:48:16.66
And many times we read
this in a very literally sense.
00:48:16.66\00:48:19.16
But I want to read these verses
to you and tell me what you
00:48:19.16\00:48:22.00
think.
00:48:22.00\00:48:23.20
Because as I have been listening
to this conversation these
00:48:23.20\00:48:25.26
verses are taking on a
completely different meaning to
00:48:25.26\00:48:27.50
me than they used to when
I used to read these verses.
00:48:27.50\00:48:30.26
I'll start in 2 Corinthians 11
and let's just begin with verse
00:48:30.26\00:48:33.96
1.
00:48:33.96\00:48:35.23
And I'm reading here from the
King James Paul says would to
00:48:35.23\00:48:38.13
God you would bear with me a
little in my folly and deed bear
00:48:38.13\00:48:40.96
with me for I am jealous
over you--verse 2--with Godly
00:48:40.96\00:48:43.43
jealousy.
00:48:43.43\00:48:44.70
For I have espoused you to one
husband that I may present you
00:48:44.70\00:48:47.23
as a chaste virgin to Christ
but--verse 3--I fear lest by any
00:48:47.23\00:48:53.23
means as the serpent beguiled
Eve through his subtlety.
00:48:53.23\00:48:57.76
>>Or craftiness my version.
00:48:57.76\00:49:00.40
>>So your minds--your minds
should be corrupted from the
00:49:00.40\00:49:02.96
simplicity that is in Christ.
00:49:02.96\00:49:05.86
Now notice this for if he that
comes preaches another Jesus
00:49:05.86\00:49:12.10
whom you have not--whom we have
not preached or if you receive
00:49:12.10\00:49:17.13
another spirit which you have
not received or another gospel
00:49:17.13\00:49:21.00
which you have not accepted
you might well bear with him.
00:49:21.00\00:49:24.73
Now notice this and I'm just
gonna skip all of these verses
00:49:24.73\00:49:29.36
now I'm going to go to verse 13
for such those that bring these
00:49:29.36\00:49:32.96
other gospel spirits and
Jesus--for such are false
00:49:32.96\00:49:36.36
prophets--false apostles
excuse me--deceitful workers
00:49:36.36\00:49:40.96
transforming themselves into the
apostles of Christ for no marvel
00:49:40.96\00:49:45.56
for Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light.
00:49:45.56\00:49:52.16
Therefore is no great
thing if his ministers also be
00:49:52.16\00:49:55.03
transformed and the ministers of
righteousness whose end shall be
00:49:55.03\00:50:00.30
according to their works.
00:50:00.30\00:50:01.30
Now I used to take
this very literally.
00:50:01.30\00:50:03.66
Oh Satan's gonna come he's
gonna come as a minister of
00:50:03.66\00:50:06.20
righteousness.
00:50:06.20\00:50:07.30
But look at this in the
context of our conversation.
00:50:07.30\00:50:09.30
Satan came to Eve in the garden
as a minister of righteousness,
00:50:09.30\00:50:15.66
as an angel of light.
00:50:15.66\00:50:18.33
We talked about the pitchfork.
00:50:18.33\00:50:19.66
>>Bringing truth.
00:50:19.66\00:50:20.70
>>Yes this is light.
00:50:20.70\00:50:21.66
This is truth.
00:50:21.66\00:50:22.36
This is good news.
00:50:22.36\00:50:23.30
This is the gospel.
00:50:23.30\00:50:25.90
>>But his light is darkness.
00:50:25.90\00:50:27.06
>>His light is darkness.'
00:50:27.06\00:50:28.33
>>This is so good James
00:50:28.33\00:50:29.90
>>So you got this whole great
controversy take--and what we're
00:50:29.90\00:50:33.23
looking for in the
world--just generally speaking.
00:50:33.23\00:50:35.26
What we're looking for is
we're looking for the pitchfork.
00:50:35.26\00:50:36.86
We're looking for the horns.
00:50:36.86\00:50:38.30
We're looking for the dark.
00:50:38.30\00:50:39.63
And here it is its light.
00:50:39.63\00:50:41.20
It's almost completely true
but yet there's one aspect of it
00:50:41.20\00:50:47.53
that's false.
00:50:47.53\00:50:48.60
>>Nature of deception mixing.
00:50:48.60\00:50:50.56
>>yes.
00:50:50.56\00:50:51.46
>>the mingling.
00:50:51.46\00:50:52.30
>>the mingling of truth.
00:50:52.30\00:50:53.73
>>And Paul is so
concerned about this.
00:50:53.73\00:50:55.03
He says I am so concerned about
this because you know back in
00:50:55.03\00:50:57.86
the Garden of Eden--back in
the Garden of Eden it worked.
00:50:57.86\00:51:00.43
>>It worked.
00:51:00.43\00:51:01.80
>>And we were perfect
back then and it worked.
00:51:01.80\00:51:03.90
It was so subtle.
00:51:03.90\00:51:05.06
It was so crafty and it worked.
00:51:05.06\00:51:06.23
>>This scripture
basically indicates among other
00:51:06.23\00:51:09.20
things-these are
such great points.
00:51:09.20\00:51:11.43
This scripture indicates that
Satan is--has set up a religious
00:51:11.43\00:51:17.10
system or a series of
religious systems and that he is
00:51:17.10\00:51:22.46
masquerading in a religious
garb purporting to represent God
00:51:22.46\00:51:28.50
through people
who are ministers.
00:51:28.50\00:51:31.36
But in the process of their
theology they're misrepresenting
00:51:31.36\00:51:36.46
the caricature of God in
alignment with the original
00:51:36.46\00:51:40.10
deception of
Revelati-of Genesis 3.
00:51:40.10\00:51:42.43
>>We're gonna get
there--We're gonna get there.
00:51:42.43\00:51:45.53
But the truth of the matter
is--is a significant number of
00:51:45.53\00:51:48.56
religions and even Christian
perspectives that puport to be
00:51:48.56\00:51:54.63
representing God are actually
representing a picture of God--a
00:51:54.63\00:51:57.83
caricature of God that are
nothing like what scripture
00:51:57.83\00:52:01.30
reveals.
00:52:01.30\00:52:02.26
>>Another Jesus.
00:52:02.26\00:52:03.46
>>We have to be honest--well
that's the thing I was gonna
00:52:03.46\00:52:05.23
say.
00:52:05.23\00:52:06.03
>>Another gospel
00:52:06.03\00:52:07.30
>>He says here another Jesus,
a different spirit, a different
00:52:07.30\00:52:08.33
gospel.
00:52:08.33\00:52:09.00
>>Isn't that something?
00:52:09.00\00:52:10.23
>>Not everything that claims
to be Christian is Christian.
00:52:10.23\00:52:12.66
You can't just take that name as
a label and stick it on things
00:52:12.66\00:52:15.20
and suddenly it's biblical
or suddenly it's Christian.
00:52:15.20\00:52:17.36
Not that we're sitting here at
the table and saying oh we have
00:52:17.36\00:52:20.50
all the truth.
00:52:20.50\00:52:21.73
But what we are saying is that
we are living in a matrix of
00:52:21.73\00:52:24.66
deception.
00:52:24.66\00:52:25.96
We are living in a place
where the subtlety and the lines
00:52:25.96\00:52:29.23
between truth and error
can be--so who then is our
00:52:29.23\00:52:31.60
lighthouse?
00:52:31.60\00:52:33.76
Who--through the fog--through
the night--through the
00:52:33.76\00:52:36.20
waves-what's the.
00:52:36.20\00:52:37.80
>>Jesus.
00:52:37.80\00:52:39.16
>>He says it's Jesus God who
made the light to shine out of
00:52:39.16\00:52:41.10
darkness by showing in
our hearts to give us the
00:52:41.10\00:52:42.63
light--lighthouse of the
knowledge of who God is in the
00:52:42.63\00:52:46.16
face of Jesus.
00:52:46.16\00:52:48.16
He's the one that we gotta
keep coming back to such that we
00:52:48.16\00:52:50.36
could just say this and
we're getting slightly ahead.
00:52:50.36\00:52:52.36
If a picture that we have of
God in our mind whatever that
00:52:52.36\00:52:54.66
picture is--is not harmonizable
with the person that we see in
00:52:54.66\00:53:01.56
the gospels of Jesus
our picture of God is wrong.
00:53:01.56\00:53:05.10
>>Praise God that is
00:53:05.10\00:53:06.86
>>In the five minutes that
we have left we gotta go to 2
00:53:06.86\00:53:09.90
Corinthians 10.
00:53:09.90\00:53:11.53
>>Ok that's back one page.
00:53:11.53\00:53:13.20
>>2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse
3 through 5--3 through 5 for
00:53:13.20\00:53:17.93
though we walk in the flesh
we do not war according to the
00:53:17.93\00:53:21.86
flesh for the weapons of
our warfare are not carnal but
00:53:21.86\00:53:25.33
mighty through God for the
pulling down of strongholds
00:53:25.33\00:53:30.46
casting out arguments in every
high thing that exalts itself
00:53:30.46\00:53:37.30
against the knowledge of
God bringing every thought into
00:53:37.30\00:53:42.23
captivity to the
obedience of Christ.
00:53:42.23\00:53:45.76
I think if I'm not mistaken and
James has it right here--I think
00:53:45.76\00:53:49.50
the King James Version instead
of casting down arguments it's
00:53:49.50\00:53:53.60
casting down imaginations.
00:53:53.60\00:53:55.73
>>Yes imaginations or
marginal reference reasoning's.
00:53:55.73\00:53:58.56
Imaginations--reasoning's.
00:53:58.56\00:54:00.83
>>Ideas, concepts.
00:54:00.83\00:54:02.06
>>So the devil is engaged in
a warfare against humanity in
00:54:02.06\00:54:04.90
which he is leveraging ideas,
arguments, images, imaginings,
00:54:04.90\00:54:12.16
theological perspectives.
00:54:12.16\00:54:14.30
>>He's trafficking.
00:54:14.30\00:54:16.66
>>Trafficking and ideas
and he's aiming for the mind.
00:54:16.66\00:54:20.46
He's aiming for the heart.
00:54:20.46\00:54:21.60
He's planting distorted
perceptions of the character of
00:54:21.60\00:54:22.90
God and we're called
upon--all of us as believers.
00:54:22.90\00:54:24.70
Anybody who believes in God--in
Christ--to do a kind of warfare.
00:54:24.70\00:54:31.60
>>Yeah that's right.
00:54:31.60\00:54:33.53
>>A Type of warfare.
00:54:33.53\00:54:34.80
>>I'm going to go out on a limb
here and say that this program
00:54:34.80\00:54:36.50
is a part of that warfare.
00:54:36.50\00:54:38.00
Because the goal of this program
Table Talk is for us and our
00:54:38.00\00:54:42.93
listeners to learn to think
biblically and clearly about who
00:54:42.93\00:54:48.30
God is.
00:54:48.30\00:54:49.20
So there's no
weapons under the table.
00:54:49.20\00:54:51.16
There's no knives here.
00:54:51.16\00:54:52.23
This is very much an
act of spiritual warfare.
00:54:52.23\00:54:55.83
>>It is.
00:54:55.83\00:54:56.80
It is.
00:54:56.80\00:54:57.76
>>Unmasking Satan
and giving glory to God.
00:54:57.76\00:55:01.43
God is awesome.
00:55:01.43\00:55:02.90
God deserves our praise.
00:55:02.90\00:55:04.56
>>God is beautiful.
00:55:04.56\00:55:05.50
>>He is beautiful.
00:55:05.50\00:55:06.46
>>Look at these verses too.
00:55:06.46\00:55:08.70
These verses actually add to
this just a little bit--I don't
00:55:08.70\00:55:11.13
know if we have
time to do this though.
00:55:11.13\00:55:12.53
>>We got three minutes.
00:55:12.53\00:55:13.60
>>2 Peter chapter 2.
00:55:13.60\00:55:14.90
>>Talk fast
I've heard you do it.
00:55:14.90\00:55:17.06
>>2 Peter chapter 2
again summarizing bringing it
00:55:17.06\00:55:19.56
together.
00:55:19.56\00:55:20.76
But tying in some of these
words that we've read in Ezekiel
00:55:20.76\00:55:22.63
chapter 28 but there were false
prophets among the people even
00:55:22.63\00:55:25.43
as there shall be false teachers
among you who privately shall
00:55:25.43\00:55:29.53
bring in damnable heresies even
in denying the Lord that brought
00:55:29.53\00:55:33.20
them.
00:55:33.20\00:55:34.40
And bring upon themselves
swift destruction and many shall
00:55:34.40\00:55:36.90
follow their pernicious ways by
reason of whom the truth shall
00:55:36.90\00:55:40.16
evil be spoken of.
00:55:40.16\00:55:41.56
And through covertness
they shall with vain words make
00:55:41.56\00:55:45.03
merchandise of you.
00:55:45.03\00:55:46.60
God--Satan has been using--has
been using words--wrong words to
00:55:46.60\00:55:51.40
make merchandise to traffic his
merchandise against God they're
00:55:51.40\00:55:54.96
going to make merchandise of you
who judgment now be long time
00:55:54.96\00:55:57.70
lingers not whose
damnation slumbers not.
00:55:57.70\00:56:00.63
For if God spared not the
angels that sinned but cast them
00:56:00.63\00:56:03.26
down--in other words these
verses are tying in--not just
00:56:03.26\00:56:06.93
what happened in heaven.
00:56:06.93\00:56:08.80
Not just what's going
on in spiritual places.
00:56:08.80\00:56:10.86
Not just what is happening with
Lucifer and his merchandise.
00:56:10.86\00:56:13.70
But those who follow Christ.
00:56:13.70\00:56:16.03
Those who seek as we are
doing to upend his plan--his
00:56:16.03\00:56:22.70
purpose--his work.
00:56:22.70\00:56:23.73
We're going to fall
under that same category.
00:56:23.73\00:56:25.03
We're gonna receive opposition.
00:56:25.03\00:56:26.30
We're going to find ourselves in
a similar situation that all of
00:56:26.30\00:56:30.00
God's faithful people
have found themselves in.
00:56:30.00\00:56:32.80
In the context of
this great controversy.
00:56:32.80\00:56:35.70
>>It's a spiritual warfare,
James that takes the form of
00:56:35.70\00:56:38.73
intellectual controversy.
00:56:38.73\00:56:40.70
Who is God?
00:56:40.70\00:56:43.23
What is a Christian?
00:56:43.23\00:56:45.16
Who was Jesus?
00:56:45.16\00:56:46.66
I mean insurance policies
and other things--acts of God.
00:56:46.66\00:56:50.00
>>What?
00:56:50.00\00:56:52.93
>>What?
00:56:52.93\00:56:53.80
This God.
00:56:53.80\00:56:54.60
The God of scripture.
00:56:54.60\00:56:55.90
The God of love.
00:56:55.90\00:56:56.60
The God of goodness.
00:56:56.60\00:56:57.66
The God...and you know
its interesting back in 2
00:56:57.66\00:56:58.90
Corinthians 10 where you read
the line there about casting
00:56:58.90\00:57:01.26
down--pulling down strongholds.
00:57:01.26\00:57:03.93
Think this through.
00:57:03.93\00:57:05.43
These strongholds have a
stronghold on us and on our
00:57:05.43\00:57:11.86
minds.
00:57:11.86\00:57:14.23
>>They're fortresses.
00:57:14.23\00:57:15.43
>>They are
fortresses in the mind.
00:57:15.43\00:57:16.86
This is who God really is.
00:57:16.86\00:57:18.00
He's controlling.
00:57:18.00\00:57:19.26
He's manipulative.
00:57:19.26\00:57:20.50
This is who....and until--like
Eve in the garden--until we
00:57:20.50\00:57:22.66
think clearly about the love
of God--the beauty of God--the
00:57:22.66\00:57:25.26
goodness of God.
00:57:25.26\00:57:26.80
These strongholds in our
mind will elicit a whole host of
00:57:26.80\00:57:29.63
behaviors that will bring
shame, fear, guilt, broken
00:57:29.63\00:57:34.50
relationships.
00:57:34.50\00:57:35.70
>>Ty I think a good way to
wrap this up and I--you guys can
00:57:35.70\00:57:40.40
piggy back on this real quick I
think a great big picture--frame
00:57:40.40\00:57:44.83
is a statement that Paul makes
in First Corinthians 4 verse 9
00:57:44.83\00:57:49.96
and we're aware
of this statement.
00:57:49.96\00:57:51.20
>>You got about 30 seconds.
00:57:51.20\00:57:52.43
>>That we have been made a
spectacle to the world both to
00:57:52.43\00:57:56.80
angels and to men.
00:57:56.80\00:58:00.80
This whole
picture of Job we are Job.
00:58:00.80\00:58:03.76
This little speck in the
universe called planet earth is
00:58:03.76\00:58:06.53
Job.
00:58:06.53\00:58:07.96
This is--this is--this is
the theater here and the entire
00:58:07.96\00:58:11.50
universe is looking on.
00:58:11.50\00:58:12.70
And how we live our
lives and how we relate.
00:58:12.70\00:58:15.36
How we think and feel about
God will be the thing that God
00:58:15.36\00:58:20.00
points to to
indicate his character.
00:58:20.00\00:58:21.20
>>Praise God.
00:58:21.20\00:58:22.53
>>Praise God.
00:58:22.53\00:58:23.80
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00:58:28.03\00:58:32.00
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00:58:32.00\00:58:37.16
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