[Music]
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[Music]
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I love the fact that
we're studying the bible around
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the table.
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This is exactly what needs to
be happening all over the place
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people sitting around the table
having a conversation about the
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things that really matter.
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We've come from some really,
really simple but deep topics.
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And we're going to continue on
now in the logical trajectory of
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where we've come from.
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We are now going to consider
what we're calling players and
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stakes.
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The players and the stakes
of the great controversy between
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good and evil; the Great War;
the cosmic battle between good
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and evil.
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And the reason we're calling
this players and stakes is
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because there are key
individuals that are involved in
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the war, in the great
controversy between good and
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evil.
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So let's just take this
in three parts, alright.
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What do you guys think of this?
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Number one let's talk about
the fact that we live in an
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inhabited universe.
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We're not alone as human beings.
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We'll flush that
out more as we go.
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We're not alone in the universe.
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Number two we're going to talk
about Lucifer specifically and
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the angelic order.
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I just said we're not
alone in the universe.
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There are other civilizations; I
guess you could say other actual
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communities of beings in the
universe beside human beings.
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And one of those communities'
angels and Lucifer whom we're
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going to get a character profile
of, a personality profile of is
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key in the controversy.
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And thirdly let's explore the
fact that planet earth and the
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human race is right in the cross
hairs of the Great War between
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good and evil.
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That the great controversy is
happening right here right now
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on our planet, more
specifically between our ears.
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Right here on planet
earth with the human race.
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So let's go.
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Inhabited universe what
are we talking about here?
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Does the bible actually teach
that there are other orders of
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created beings in the
universe besides human beings?
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>>The answer's yes obviously.
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I mean I shouldn't say obviously
but an answer to the question,
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you're asking a
yes or no question.
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The answer is yes the bible does
teach that that there is God.
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There are human beings.
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There are other; you said
civilizations, but other orders
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of being, other kinds of beings.
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We don't, probably it would
be very safe to say that what we
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don't know about these beings is
far greater than what we do know
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about them.
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But what we do know about
them the bible does present a
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reasonable picture so that we
can kind of--we know what we're
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dealing with.
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We know what
we're talking about.
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And so, yeah.
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>>Are we talking Star Wars?
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Are we talking Star Trek?
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Are we talking
weird looking aliens?
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That's not what
we're saying is it?
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What are we talking about
when we say that we live in a
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universe with
other orders of beings?
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>>Okay so let's just start right
there when--the moment you start
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talking about, you know
physical appearance that's where
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things--that gets into the
category of things that I was
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saying there.
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We don't know is far
greater than what we do know
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>>Okay.
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>>I've never personally seen an
angel but amazingly--this might
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sound crazy to like an
atheist or to an agnostic who is
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listening in.
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I have great reason to
believe that there are angels.
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But if you said ok now sketch
an ang--I would probably sketch
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something
that's like I imagined.
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You know a Hollywood picture,
television picture or a painting
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of what an angel is
supposed to look like.
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>>Okay.
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>>So as far as their physicality
I don't, that's not even the
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point.
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But I think the real point
here is what kind of beings are
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these?
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And they are revealed to us
in scripture as being in a sense
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very much like human beings.
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In that they are
volitional beings.
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They make choices.
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They are moral beings in that
they can make right and wrong
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choices.
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And so in that sense
they're very much like us.
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>>Okay first let's just
establish that that other orders
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of beings do exist.
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Bring scripture to the table.
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I'll bring one.
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Okay you got one.
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>>Hebrews 2 this is one we've
been looking at quite a bit.
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>>You love Hebrews
it's always in Hebrews.
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>> It's a relational book.
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We're talking
about relationships here.
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Hebrews chapter 2 is a summary,
if you will, of the creation,
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the creation act and the fall.
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>>I was already there.
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>>And in Hebrews chapter 2 we
looked at this already but we'll
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just look at it
again in verse 7.
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It's talking about verse 6
man you are mindful of him.
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What is he that you made
him that you take care of him?
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And then it says in verse 7
you have made him, that is man,
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mankind a little
lower than the angels.
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So here is an order of beings
that is described in Hebrews
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chapter 2 in the
context of creation.
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Here's an order of beings that
have been made higher than us.
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In other words, we were made
a little lower than the angels.
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So there is an order of being,
beings called angels that were,
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occupied a position a
little bit higher than us.
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>>Okay I'll bring a
scripture to the table then.
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>>Before I can see
you're in Job already.
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I'm just gonna stay on the same
page here in Hebrews chapter one
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and I'm just
going to read verse 14.
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It says are they not all, they,
angels, are the angels not all
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ministering spirits sent forth
to minister for those who will
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inherit salvation?
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So they're spiritual
beings, spirit beings.
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>>Okay, yeah, yeah.
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And there in that scripture I'll
just--before I go to the one
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I've got here--that
scripture actually says they're
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interactive
with the human realm.
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Right?
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'Cause it says there
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>>They're ministers.
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>>Sent forth,
that's travel language.
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They live somewhere else then
planet earth as their I guess
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you could say permanent address.
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But their sent.
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That means they
come and they go right?
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To be--to minister to those
who shall be heirs of salvation.
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That means that they're actively
engaged with the human race on
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some level.
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>>I like that.
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>>Right?
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Okay here's one I
have to bring to the table.
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This is Job 38 Job has
been having his whole experience
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which, which maybe
we'll talk about later.
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And then God is responding
to Job who's now been, been just
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really expressing how horrible
his experience is and saying
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basically God you know.
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What's going on here?
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Where are you?
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So then God poses a
question to Job okay.
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He says in verse 4 where were
you when I laid the foundations
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of the earth?
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This is Job 38 did
I say what chapter?
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>>Mhm.
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>>Chapter 38 verse 4 where
were you, Job, when I laid the
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foundations of the earth?
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Tell me if you
have understanding?
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That's verse 4 then God
elaborates a little bit about
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the creation of the earth.
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And then he says in verse 7 when
the morning stars sing together
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and all the sons of
God shouted for joy.
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Okay so here's the
question God is asking Job.
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Job were you there when I laid
the foundations of the earth?
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When I created the earth?
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When all the sons of God and the
morning stars shouted for you?
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So there's chronology here.
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The chronology here is that
when planet earth is created.
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When planet earth is created
there is already an order of
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beings according to this
that are witnessing the event.
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So chronically if they're
shouting for joy and singing
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when earth and mankind is being
made, they're witnessing it, if
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they're singing about it.
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So they already exist.
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Now there are two orders of
beings here, the morning stars
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and the sons of God.
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The morning stars are just a
biblical metaphor in poetry for
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angels.
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Because according to Revelation
1 verse 20 and Revelation 12:7-9
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right?
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The angels are likened to stars.
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So it's a cymbol for angels.
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The stars in
scripture are angels.
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The angels are witnessing
the creation of planet earth.
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>>That doesn't, just to clarify,
that doesn't mean that every
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time we see the word star in the
bible that that's necessarily an
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angel.
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>>Oh sometimes it means stars.
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>> Yeah, Got it just I just
want to--so we're clear on that.
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But and that's not just in
Revelation that's Isaiah too.
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Isaiah 14 which we'll
probably end up in later.
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But morning star.
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>>Every time Jeffrey uses the
word hearts he's not necessarily
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using it in the metaphoric sense
with his romantic Latin self.
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When he's talking about his love
for Marianna, sometimes he might
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be talking about the
biological actual physical.
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>>The cardiac muscle.
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>>Yeah the cardiac muscle.
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>>But mostly I
refer to the romantic.
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>>So stars are used
to symbolize angels.
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Okay, then
there's the sons of God.
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The sons of God are also,
according to this scripture
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verse 7.
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They are witnessing the creation
of planet earth and the human
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race, right?
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Who are the sons of God?
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I'd like to suggest
that the sons of God are the
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representative heads of
other worlds that God has made.
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Now that's a mouth full and
I can give you two pieces of
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biblical evidence
to demonstrate that.
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Number one is the
context of Job itself.
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In chapters 1 and 2 there's a
heavenly convention it's called.
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And it says there was a day
when the sons of God, that's the
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language, came to present
themselves before the Lord, and
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Satan came also
among them, right?
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So the sons of God are coming.
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They're traveling before the
Lord for this heavenly congress
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meeting of some kind alright.
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They're called the sons of God.
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Well who are they
and why are they there?
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Well in the context Satan came
among them and the Lord said to
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Satan from where, a
point of origins question.
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From where do you come?
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And Satan said from earth.
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So Satan is claiming to be
representative of planet earth
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and the human race,
there's a lot there.
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But these guys, these others
are sons of God who are there to
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represent other places in the
universe that God has made with
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rational volitional creatures.
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Okay second biblical evidence is
the genealogy in Luke chapter 3
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so and so is the
son of so and so.
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So the son of so and
so David the son of Jesse.
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Jesse the son of Obed and
it just keeps going back, back,
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back until it finally
says Adam the son of God.
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So that language is indicating
that in a primary sense, in a
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primary sense Adam
was the son of God.
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We're sons and daughters of God,
of course, all of us as human
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beings on a
secondary sense by procreation
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But here's the point Adam was
the son of God and the primary
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sense that he did not
have a human mom or dad.
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He was the first and therefore
the head of the human race.
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Right, are you with me on that?
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>>Totally.
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>>So then the sons of God came
to present themselves before the
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Lord.
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We can deduce that these are
people traveling to meet with
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the Lord who are representatives
of other worlds God has made.
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Okay so.
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>I think that's what I like all
of that and basically much of
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what you're saying there
strongly suggests that the, the
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angelic beings are
an organized group.
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They're sent forth.
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They're at a congress.
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They're assembling.
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There's' all these reasons to
believe that they're organized
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and that leads me to
a couple of scriptures.
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You asked us to bring
some scriptures to the table.
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One is where Jesus in the Garden
of Gethsemane and Peter goes to
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cut off the ear of the people
that have come to arrest or the
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head probably, but he misses.
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The--those that have come to
arrest Jesus and Jesus says I'm
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in Matthew 26 verse 53 He says
do you not think that I can now
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pray to my father and he would
provide me with more than 12
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legions of angels.
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So now this tells us
a lot about the angels.
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But one of them is that they're
organized and they're under the
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direction of God.
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Now then sort of couple
that with a text in First
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Thessalonians chapter 4 where
Paul refers to the voice of the
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Arc angel.
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Right and Arc here meaning
the first or the one who's over.
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So we have this
sort of orderly picture.
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This organized
picture of these beings.
00:12:09.86\00:12:11.36
I think civilization, earlier
your used the word civilization.
00:12:11.36\00:12:13.96
I think that's a very good
word because it's an organized
00:12:13.96\00:12:17.26
assembly of other worldly
beings, spiritual beings.
00:12:17.26\00:12:20.90
>>In our last conversation
we were talking about the garden
00:12:20.90\00:12:23.66
and it seems that the early,
I don't know if I'm overstating
00:12:23.66\00:12:27.86
this but one of the earliest
statements about the angels is
00:12:27.86\00:12:32.16
right there in Genesis.
00:12:32.16\00:12:33.70
And it's in the context
of the garden and the fall.
00:12:33.70\00:12:37.06
We were just talking
about the fall in our previous
00:12:37.06\00:12:39.33
conversation.
00:12:39.33\00:12:40.60
And at the very close of chapter
3 there's, there's an angelic
00:12:40.60\00:12:45.13
order there that's involved
with the affairs of humanity.
00:12:45.13\00:12:48.00
And it says there in verse
24 that God drove out the man,
00:12:48.00\00:12:51.66
speaking of Adam and Eve
from the garden and he placed
00:12:51.66\00:12:55.03
Cherubim.
00:12:55.03\00:12:58.93
He placed Cherubim at the
east of the Garden of Eden and a
00:12:58.93\00:13:01.86
flaming sword which turned every
way to guard the way to the tree
00:13:01.86\00:13:08.33
of life.
00:13:08.33\00:13:09.46
So at the fall of man
the angelic order is present.
00:13:09.46\00:13:13.66
It's also present there.
00:13:13.66\00:13:15.40
And it's somehow involved
in the affairs of humanity and
00:13:15.40\00:13:18.46
obviously
interested in the fall of man.
00:13:18.46\00:13:23.23
>>You know I really love this
because in Matthew chapter 18
00:13:23.23\00:13:25.53
which is, which is just picking
up where you're leaving off.
00:13:25.53\00:13:29.03
In Matthew 18 Jesus is talking
about us and specifically about
00:13:29.03\00:13:33.56
little children,
little ones, little ones.
00:13:33.56\00:13:35.80
And as he's talking about little
ones and how we interact with
00:13:35.80\00:13:40.13
those who are maybe
not as strong as us.
00:13:40.13\00:13:44.96
He describes how they are
watched over by these angelic
00:13:44.96\00:13:49.00
beings.
00:13:49.00\00:13:50.43
So they're not just guarding
this garden but they're actually
00:13:50.43\00:13:52.43
guarding us.
00:13:52.43\00:13:53.50
They're protecting us.
00:13:53.50\00:13:54.83
In verse 10 he says take heed
that you do not despise one of
00:13:54.83\00:13:57.26
these little ones.
00:13:57.26\00:13:58.60
For I say to you that
in heaven they're angels.
00:13:58.60\00:14:03.33
So all these
little ones have angels.
00:14:03.33\00:14:04.93
>>Possessive.
00:14:04.93\00:14:05.70
>> Their angels, their angels.
00:14:05.70\00:14:06.83
>>That's where we get
the idea of a guardian angel.
00:14:06.83\00:14:07.86
>>Guardian angel.
00:14:07.86\00:14:09.50
Their angels always see the face
of my father who is in heaven.
00:14:09.50\00:14:13.86
So there again you
have that connection.
00:14:13.86\00:14:15.40
You have the connection of the
angels with God the organization
00:14:15.40\00:14:18.30
connection there.
00:14:18.30\00:14:19.66
And then again you have
that transition from God and the
00:14:19.66\00:14:24.66
order to us.
00:14:24.66\00:14:25.93
Not just to .
00:14:25.93\00:14:26.73
>>That is so good.
00:14:26.73\00:14:27.86
>>One of us but there,
to the plural, to all of us.
00:14:27.86\00:14:29.20
All of us have angels that--and
Jesus says be careful because
00:14:29.20\00:14:31.76
these angels are continually
guarding these little ones,
00:14:31.76\00:14:36.23
continually watching
over these little ones.
00:14:36.23\00:14:37.56
>>So there's something to
this whole guardian angel thing.
00:14:37.56\00:14:39.30
>>It's biblical.
00:14:39.30\00:14:40.23
>>There's something to that.
00:14:40.23\00:14:41.63
It's powerful and, and Peter,
you'll remember this text gives
00:14:41.63\00:14:45.56
this really powerful picture.
00:14:45.56\00:14:47.86
I'm in First Peter chapter 1 and
you remember that verse 12 and
00:14:47.86\00:14:53.90
I'll just read the last
part there just for the sake of
00:14:53.90\00:14:56.46
brevity here.
00:14:56.46\00:14:57.56
But it says that the
angels desire to look into.
00:14:57.56\00:15:00.83
>>yea.
00:15:00.83\00:15:02.40
>>speaking of the salvation.
00:15:02.40\00:15:04.16
>>It's talking about the
condition of humanity and God's
00:15:04.16\00:15:07.43
plan of restoration.
00:15:07.43\00:15:09.13
This whole process of the gospel
and of the story of redemption
00:15:09.13\00:15:13.26
and how the angels
desire to look into it.
00:15:13.26\00:15:17.16
So you were just saying that
you have angels that are sent to
00:15:17.16\00:15:19.96
guard.
00:15:19.96\00:15:21.16
So you have this beautiful
picture that--and I love what
00:15:21.16\00:15:23.40
you said we are not alone.
00:15:23.40\00:15:24.40
And not only are we not alone.
00:15:24.40\00:15:25.40
>>They're invested.
00:15:25.40\00:15:26.86
>>They're invested in this
because after all I think we'll
00:15:26.86\00:15:29.43
undeveloped this.
00:15:29.43\00:15:32.76
This thing went
down in their back yard.
00:15:32.76\00:15:33.93
>>And it didn't just go
down in their back yard.
00:15:33.93\00:15:35.56
It went down in their family.
00:15:35.56\00:15:36.83
Because we've been talking, you
know, a guardian angel, that's
00:15:36.83\00:15:39.96
positive.
00:15:39.96\00:15:40.93
And the angels that
were there to guard.
00:15:40.93\00:15:42.23
But every one of the--not
everyone but so many of these
00:15:42.23\00:15:45.00
texts that Job text.
00:15:45.00\00:15:46.23
Even the text I quoted don't
you think that he could send his
00:15:46.23\00:15:48.46
angels to protect
assume a conflict.
00:15:48.46\00:15:51.93
All of these texts that we're
quoting are set against the
00:15:51.93\00:15:55.13
background of a conflict.
00:15:55.13\00:15:56.40
And I just want to read a verse
here that will sort of set that
00:15:56.40\00:15:59.96
up.
00:15:59.96\00:16:01.16
This is in the book of
Revelation and it says chapter
00:16:01.16\00:16:02.90
12 verse 9 so the
great dragon was cast out.
00:16:02.90\00:16:06.60
That serpent of old.
00:16:06.60\00:16:07.83
That's how we spent our last
lesson was on the serpent in the
00:16:07.83\00:16:09.70
tree, he's
cunning and he's subtle.
00:16:09.70\00:16:12.20
That serpent of old
called the devil and Satan.
00:16:12.20\00:16:14.06
We're gonna talk
about him in just a moment.
00:16:14.06\00:16:16.06
But look at this who
deceives the whole world.
00:16:16.06\00:16:18.36
There's the deception.
00:16:18.36\00:16:20.23
There's the cleverness.
00:16:20.23\00:16:21.60
There's the subtlety.
00:16:21.60\00:16:22.86
He was cast to the earth and his
angels were cast out with him.
00:16:22.86\00:16:27.20
So there is a civil war.
00:16:27.20\00:16:30.93
You say this
happened in the back yard.
00:16:30.93\00:16:32.50
Indeed it happened not just
in the back yard in terms of
00:16:32.50\00:16:34.66
territorial vicinity it
happened in their family.
00:16:34.66\00:16:37.93
This is a civil war.
00:16:37.93\00:16:39.40
>>And it says his angels.
00:16:39.40\00:16:41.73
It's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
since when does the dragon or
00:16:41.73\00:16:45.53
Satan have his own angels?
00:16:45.53\00:16:47.36
>>Those that are loyal to him.
00:16:47.36\00:16:48.76
>>So we thought that God created
all the angels but now there
00:16:48.76\00:16:51.06
seems to be a
transition of loyalty.
00:16:51.06\00:16:53.33
>>God did create all the angels.
00:16:53.33\00:16:54.50
>>Right, right, right.
00:16:54.50\00:16:55.56
>>He created them
but check this out.
00:16:55.56\00:16:57.13
In Genesis chapter 2 one of the
things--this was before the fall
00:16:57.13\00:17:01.26
Genesis 2.
00:17:01.26\00:17:02.53
One of the things that God said
to Adam and Eve was to tend the
00:17:02.53\00:17:05.00
garden and keep it.
00:17:05.00\00:17:06.26
And the word there to keep in
the Hebrew one of the meanings
00:17:06.26\00:17:09.26
is to guard it.
00:17:09.26\00:17:10.40
Right now if I said to
you hey Jeffrey guard this.
00:17:10.40\00:17:15.96
You aut--what do you
automatically assume.
00:17:15.96\00:17:17.86
>>Yeah it's an assumption there.
00:17:17.86\00:17:19.83
There's
something to guard against.
00:17:19.83\00:17:20.90
>>Yeah against.
00:17:20.90\00:17:21.70
It says beware of dog.
00:17:21.70\00:17:22.86
That means
there's something what?
00:17:22.86\00:17:24.43
>>Something hairy in
there that you gotta watch out.
00:17:24.43\00:17:26.03
>>So if God says to Adam
and Eve, this really gives us an
00:17:26.03\00:17:28.96
insight to the fact that the
serpent didn't just show up in
00:17:28.96\00:17:30.93
the tree.
00:17:30.93\00:17:31.80
You know
spontaneously, whoa, you know.
00:17:31.80\00:17:33.73
Rabbit out of a hat.
00:17:33.73\00:17:35.00
That they were told to be on the
lookout for a deceiver, for an
00:17:35.00\00:17:39.26
enemy.
00:17:39.26\00:17:41.30
>>For a thief.
00:17:41.30\00:17:42.86
The bible says he's a thief.
00:17:42.86\00:17:44.10
>>A Thief.
00:17:44.10\00:17:45.23
A murderer that would come.
00:17:45.23\00:17:46.26
>>Guys we gotta take a break.
00:17:46.26\00:17:47.60
>>Awe.
00:17:47.60\00:17:49.40
>>We're coming back though.
00:17:49.40\00:17:50.56
This is good stuff.
00:17:50.56\00:17:51.76
The break we're gonna take
though, this is pretty exciting
00:17:51.76\00:17:54.86
stuff.
00:17:54.86\00:17:56.20
We're producing some videos
and Light Bearers is really
00:17:56.20\00:17:59.40
interested in communicating
to the world at large.
00:17:59.40\00:18:04.43
And there's a project
we're calling Digma.com.
00:18:04.43\00:18:08.03
And we just want people to
understand what Digma.com is.
00:18:08.03\00:18:11.46
It's basically a building
library of sharable videos.
00:18:11.46\00:18:15.93
You can literally click on
any one of these short videos.
00:18:15.93\00:18:20.13
They're about 7
minutes long each.
00:18:20.13\00:18:22.36
You can click on any one of
these videos and email it to a
00:18:22.36\00:18:25.03
friend,
stimulate a conversation.
00:18:25.03\00:18:27.26
>>They're good.
00:18:27.26\00:18:28.40
>>With somebody.
00:18:28.40\00:18:29.10
And this is a building library.
00:18:29.10\00:18:30.50
They're right now I think about
10 or 12 of them at the website.
00:18:30.50\00:18:33.16
Something like that and then
there are more that are being
00:18:33.16\00:18:36.60
produced and so we just want
to share with people that this
00:18:36.60\00:18:40.66
resource is available.
00:18:40.66\00:18:42.56
And take a look.
00:18:42.56\00:18:45.33
>>Hi I'm Ty Gibson,
welcome to digma.com.
00:18:45.33\00:18:49.73
I am so excited about this
website because you're about to
00:18:49.73\00:18:54.80
discover a powerful new
way to share life, transforming
00:18:54.80\00:18:58.56
messages and videos with your
family, friends and anybody else
00:18:58.56\00:19:02.23
on the planet who
has access to a computer.
00:19:02.23\00:19:04.70
Digma is a Greek word.
00:19:04.70\00:19:08.26
It basically means to show or to
reveal something by means of a
00:19:08.26\00:19:12.43
pattern or an
example of some kind.
00:19:12.43\00:19:14.23
It's the second half of the word
paradigm from which we get the
00:19:14.23\00:19:19.36
English word
paradigm as in paradigm shift.
00:19:19.36\00:19:22.40
And so what you're going to
find at digma.com is a growing
00:19:22.40\00:19:26.36
library of short videos
and transcripts dealing with
00:19:26.36\00:19:29.16
paradigms and
fundamental questions.
00:19:29.16\00:19:31.56
What's the meaning of life?
00:19:31.56\00:19:33.93
What is our origin and
destiny as human beings?
00:19:33.93\00:19:37.83
What happens when we die?
00:19:37.83\00:19:40.13
Does God exist or are we
alone in this vast universe?
00:19:40.13\00:19:44.33
Why is there so much evil
and suffering in our world?
00:19:44.33\00:19:48.56
An estimated 70 percent of
Americans have a computer right
00:19:48.56\00:19:53.43
in their home and stay in
touch with family and friends by
00:19:53.43\00:19:57.03
email.
00:19:57.03\00:19:58.23
And more than 400 million
people are active on facebook.
00:19:58.23\00:20:01.46
And 5 million new users
are signing up every week.
00:20:01.46\00:20:07.36
We are literally in the midst of
a communications revolution of
00:20:07.36\00:20:12.43
massive proportion.
00:20:12.43\00:20:13.76
This is granting the
gospel direct and easy access to
00:20:13.76\00:20:18.36
millions upon
millions of homes and hearts.
00:20:18.36\00:20:22.60
And that's what
digma.com is all about.
00:20:22.60\00:20:26.36
It's a tool for leading
our family and friends on an
00:20:26.36\00:20:29.43
exciting paradigm shift by
revealing the truth of God's
00:20:29.43\00:20:33.80
creative power and his
incredibly beautiful character
00:20:33.80\00:20:38.56
in contrast to our world's
popular misconceptions about who
00:20:38.56\00:20:43.56
God is.
00:20:43.56\00:20:45.53
>>I've just gotta say
that I love those Digma videos.
00:20:45.53\00:20:55.56
>>I've just gotta say
that I love those Digma videos.
00:20:55.56\00:21:09.60
I know that it's you on their
Ty but it's a product of Light
00:21:09.60\00:21:13.33
Bearers ministry and I have
showed those to so many people
00:21:13.33\00:21:17.00
in so many different contexts
and settings and never have I
00:21:17.00\00:21:20.06
yet had a situation where
people weren't like, well these
00:21:20.06\00:21:22.66
are--these are special.
00:21:22.66\00:21:25.00
So praise God for the wisdom
that he's given you and the
00:21:25.00\00:21:28.73
resources he's given
this ministry to do it.
00:21:28.73\00:21:30.90
>>yeah, yeah.
00:21:30.90\00:21:32.40
>>Now, now I want to get right
back into our conversation here
00:21:32.40\00:21:35.73
'cause we were sort of
transitioning from the first
00:21:35.73\00:21:37.76
part which was we're
in an inhabited universe.
00:21:37.76\00:21:41.00
And now we're transitioning into
sort of who is this Lucifer guy?
00:21:41.00\00:21:45.53
Who is this Satan guy that we
keep sort of coming up against?
00:21:45.53\00:21:48.80
And let's talk about him.
00:21:48.80\00:21:52.13
But before we do I think what
we're seeing scripture confirm
00:21:52.13\00:21:55.43
here is just a basic
sense that most people have.
00:21:55.43\00:21:59.93
You go outside especially in a
place that doesn't have a lot of
00:21:59.93\00:22:03.70
light pollution.
00:22:03.70\00:22:05.20
You know you go off in the
wilderness and the woods or the
00:22:05.20\00:22:07.70
desert and
you're away from lights.
00:22:07.70\00:22:09.03
And you look up
and the sky is awesome.
00:22:09.03\00:22:10.60
I mean I was just recently
in the outback of Australia.
00:22:10.60\00:22:12.83
We drove right down through the
middle of Australia and the sky
00:22:12.83\00:22:16.56
there is amazing.
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.20
The stars are so thick that you
feel like you could just almost
00:22:18.20\00:22:21.33
reach out and touch them.
00:22:21.33\00:22:23.90
And no one who has seen that can
fail to think to themselves at
00:22:23.90\00:22:27.80
some level.
00:22:27.80\00:22:29.66
We can't be alone.
00:22:29.66\00:22:31.16
There has to be
this too big, too grand.
00:22:31.16\00:22:35.16
There has to be
something out there.
00:22:35.16\00:22:37.23
And scripture here is confirming
this basic human sense and
00:22:37.23\00:22:40.93
intuition that we are not alone.
00:22:40.93\00:22:43.23
>>Yeah and the bible is also
confirming because you've been
00:22:43.23\00:22:45.40
hinting at the existence
to a dark side of all this.
00:22:45.40\00:22:49.96
The bible clearly communicates
that God created everything good
00:22:49.96\00:22:53.70
and perfect.
00:22:53.70\00:22:56.03
But then there was, as
you called a civil war.
00:22:56.03\00:22:58.80
There was a fracture
in the angelic community.
00:22:58.80\00:23:01.60
The angels were all created
good, holy, and beautiful with
00:23:01.60\00:23:05.76
the capacity to love.
00:23:05.76\00:23:08.43
Like God loves obviously.
00:23:08.43\00:23:09.90
The bible describes the angels
as emotional beings at different
00:23:09.90\00:23:16.76
times.
00:23:16.76\00:23:17.66
>>Yeah because
they experience joy.
00:23:17.66\00:23:18.96
>>They experience joy.
00:23:18.96\00:23:20.16
They rejoice the angels in
heaven rejoice when one person
00:23:20.16\00:23:21.93
turns to the Lord,
Luke chapter 15 tells us.
00:23:21.93\00:23:24.36
So the angels are very real.
00:23:24.36\00:23:26.23
But there's been a division
among them according to various
00:23:26.23\00:23:29.93
scriptures.
00:23:29.93\00:23:31.70
Revelation 12 comes to mind.
00:23:31.70\00:23:33.40
>>We just read
that one Revelations 12.
00:23:33.40\00:23:35.00
>>Yeah, so verse 7 says
there was war in heaven.
00:23:35.00\00:23:37.36
War erupted in
the heavenly realm.
00:23:37.36\00:23:41.30
>>The last place I would
ever think of a war breaking out
00:23:41.30\00:23:44.56
would be heaven.
00:23:44.56\00:23:46.40
>>yeah, yeah and I think maybe
the inhabitants of heaven, when
00:23:46.40\00:23:50.16
they witnessed the creation of
humanity and saw this glorious
00:23:50.16\00:23:54.06
new thing that God had made.
00:23:54.06\00:23:56.60
They probably thought
the same thing Jeffrey.
00:23:56.60\00:23:58.36
The last thing we will ever
expect for there to be a war
00:23:58.36\00:24:02.26
between good and
evil is on planet earth.
00:24:02.26\00:24:05.43
But the fact is God created
these beings, angels, with free
00:24:05.43\00:24:11.96
will.
00:24:11.96\00:24:14.30
And so it happened.
00:24:14.30\00:24:15.53
In Ephesians we clearly have
language in chapter 3 verse 10.
00:24:15.53\00:24:18.93
Here's the language I'm just
quoting a part of the verse that
00:24:18.93\00:24:22.00
there are principalities and
powers in the heavenly places or
00:24:22.00\00:24:26.06
the heavenly realm.
00:24:26.06\00:24:28.03
Okay, also again in chapter 6
it says we wrestle not against
00:24:28.03\00:24:33.13
flesh and blood but against
principalities and powers
00:24:33.13\00:24:36.33
against the rulers of the
darkness of this age, that is
00:24:36.33\00:24:40.40
this era in universal history.
00:24:40.40\00:24:43.33
Against spiritual hosts or
groups of wickedness in the
00:24:43.33\00:24:48.56
heavenly realm.
00:24:48.56\00:24:49.80
So both of these
scriptures according to Paul.
00:24:49.80\00:24:52.53
Paul's perspective is cosmic.
00:24:52.53\00:24:54.50
He sees that there is
an intersection an inner
00:24:54.50\00:24:58.43
penetration between a heavenly
realm and the earthly realm.
00:24:58.43\00:25:03.73
This scripture says that there
are rulers and authorities,
00:25:03.73\00:25:06.76
principalities and powers.
00:25:06.76\00:25:08.10
Which implies what you were
saying an orderly system of some
00:25:08.10\00:25:11.23
kind.
00:25:11.23\00:25:12.10
Even after the fall.
00:25:12.10\00:25:13.36
It's orderly because we're told
in one of the gospels; I don't
00:25:13.36\00:25:16.23
know the verse off the top of my
head that Beelzebub or Satan is
00:25:16.23\00:25:20.10
the ruler of the demons.
00:25:20.10\00:25:22.33
That means they're
under his authority.
00:25:22.33\00:25:25.06
So scripture is clear.
00:25:25.06\00:25:27.23
The angels have experienced
a division among themselves.
00:25:27.23\00:25:32.53
There is a great war that
has erupted between angels.
00:25:32.53\00:25:38.03
And they have two
different sides now among them.
00:25:38.03\00:25:41.00
Right?
00:25:41.00\00:25:44.00
That's clear in scripture.
00:25:44.00\00:25:45.53
The numbers aren't exact
in scripture but we're told in
00:25:45.53\00:25:50.30
Revelation chapter 12 that
approximately one-third of the
00:25:50.30\00:25:53.40
angels.
00:25:53.40\00:25:55.43
Well how many angels are there?
00:25:55.43\00:25:57.13
We don't know exactly.
00:25:57.13\00:25:58.40
But we have two scriptures
that tell us that it's a sizable
00:25:58.40\00:26:00.40
number.
00:26:00.40\00:26:01.56
One is in Hebrews chapter
12 here's Paul's language and
00:26:01.56\00:26:05.10
innumerable company of angels.
00:26:05.10\00:26:07.53
Did I say the word innumerable
like there were a lot of b's
00:26:07.53\00:26:13.93
there I thought.
00:26:13.93\00:26:16.53
An innumerable
company of angels.
00:26:16.53\00:26:18.43
So there are a lot of them.
00:26:18.43\00:26:19.66
And Daniel chapter 7 says
ten thousand times ten thousand.
00:26:19.66\00:26:23.56
>>And thousands of thousands.
00:26:23.56\00:26:24.63
>>Right.
00:26:24.63\00:26:25.33
So there are a lot of angels.
00:26:25.33\00:26:26.46
>>And that's referring
to the angels that remained.
00:26:26.46\00:26:28.10
>>Oh good point.
00:26:28.10\00:26:30.96
>>On God's side meaning.
00:26:30.96\00:26:32.93
>>That there's.
00:26:32.93\00:26:34.06
>>That doesn't even
factor in the third spoken of in
00:26:34.06\00:26:35.13
Revelation 12.
00:26:35.13\00:26:35.93
You follow what I'm saying?
00:26:35.93\00:26:36.93
>>Yep.
00:26:36.93\00:26:37.93
>>That means there
was a lot in other words.
00:26:37.93\00:26:39.20
>>And here's the point of the
thousands and thousands and ten
00:26:39.20\00:26:39.86
thousand times ten thousand.
00:26:39.86\00:26:40.73
The word million
doesn't occur very much.
00:26:40.73\00:26:42.16
In fact, not at all, I think
in the King James or maybe just
00:26:42.16\00:26:45.56
once.
00:26:45.56\00:26:46.83
In Hebrew speak when you wanted
to say a really large number you
00:26:46.83\00:26:50.96
said a thousand.
00:26:50.96\00:26:52.16
If you wanted to say a really
large number you'd say ten
00:26:52.16\00:26:54.10
thousand.
00:26:54.10\00:26:56.16
So to say a really, really large
number would be thousands of
00:26:56.16\00:27:00.26
thousands.
00:27:00.26\00:27:01.46
And a huge number would be
to say ten thousand times ten
00:27:01.46\00:27:03.36
thousand.
00:27:03.36\00:27:04.73
In other words you don't
encounter billion, trillion,
00:27:04.73\00:27:06.33
quadrillion in scripture.
00:27:06.33\00:27:07.83
This is basically
scripture--it's not saying a
00:27:07.83\00:27:09.56
hund--ten thousand times ten
thousand is a hundred million.
00:27:09.56\00:27:12.56
Okay it's not saying there are a
hundred million angels and then
00:27:12.56\00:27:14.80
a thousand times a
thousand another million.
00:27:14.80\00:27:16.30
A hundred and one million.
00:27:16.30\00:27:17.53
No what its saying
is there's and inum--
00:27:17.53\00:27:19.86
>>multiplied millions of angels.
00:27:19.86\00:27:21.80
>>You got it.
00:27:21.80\00:27:22.66
>>Maybe even.
00:27:22.66\00:27:23.63
>>A large number.
00:27:23.63\00:27:24.40
>>billions.
00:27:24.40\00:27:25.16
>>Yeah perhaps.
00:27:25.16\00:27:26.30
>>there are billions of
human beings and everyone has a
00:27:26.30\00:27:28.30
guardian angel according
to Matthew 18:10 was it?
00:27:28.30\00:27:31.26
>>18:10.
00:27:31.26\00:27:32.33
>>Okay but hey I want
00:27:32.33\00:27:33.60
>>there are billions of human
beings but there are millions
00:27:33.60\00:27:36.03
and billions that
have already died.
00:27:36.03\00:27:38.30
So if angels--if those faithful
angels have not experienced
00:27:38.30\00:27:41.06
death.
00:27:41.06\00:27:42.03
They wouldn't have a
diminishment of their
00:27:42.03\00:27:43.46
population.
00:27:43.46\00:27:44.63
So there's every reason to
believe that there would be
00:27:44.63\00:27:46.00
billions or more.
00:27:46.00\00:27:47.23
>>It's amazing you know the
scriptures are telling us that
00:27:47.23\00:27:50.53
there is a light and a dark
side to this great controversy.
00:27:50.53\00:27:58.00
When I was a kid and again
I grew up in a secular home.
00:27:58.00\00:27:59.86
We had no knowledge
of the existence of God.
00:27:59.86\00:28:02.90
It was never spoken of.
00:28:02.90\00:28:04.20
But I had an experience as a
child that has never ever left
00:28:04.20\00:28:10.06
me.
00:28:10.06\00:28:11.86
And it was so scary that to this
day it's a vivid memory in my
00:28:11.86\00:28:17.00
mind.
00:28:17.00\00:28:19.13
We were living in Los Angeles
California and there was this
00:28:19.13\00:28:23.40
story in my family.
00:28:23.40\00:28:24.96
Everybody was grieving about the
fact that one of my uncles had
00:28:24.96\00:28:31.56
accidentally shot another one
of my uncles, his brother in a
00:28:31.56\00:28:35.90
hunting accident.
00:28:35.90\00:28:41.33
>>Wow.
00:28:41.33\00:28:42.50
>>literally he killed his
brother accidentally in the
00:28:42.50\00:28:44.10
woods.
00:28:44.10\00:28:45.36
Thought he was, you know, one
of the animals they were hunting
00:28:45.36\00:28:47.83
for.
00:28:47.83\00:28:48.63
And shot and killed him.
00:28:48.63\00:28:50.36
And this was a very
horrible thing in our family.
00:28:50.36\00:28:54.10
And as a kid I remember hearing
the story about Uncle Billy is
00:28:54.10\00:28:57.13
dead.
00:28:57.13\00:28:58.93
And again in a secular
home some of our family members.
00:28:58.93\00:29:03.30
I'm just a kid standing on
the edge watching all of this
00:29:03.30\00:29:07.66
happen, my aunt's got together
and they sat around a table in
00:29:07.66\00:29:13.33
our house.
00:29:13.33\00:29:15.53
And they determined, I don't
know where they got the idea, to
00:29:15.53\00:29:18.63
make contact.
00:29:18.63\00:29:22.63
>>With Billy.
00:29:22.63\00:29:24.83
>>With Billy to communicate.
00:29:24.83\00:29:26.26
>>Right.
00:29:26.26\00:29:27.30
>>With Billy.
00:29:27.30\00:29:28.50
Now I was just kind of watching
from a distance and what I
00:29:28.50\00:29:32.56
witnessed was so amazing.
00:29:32.56\00:29:37.26
And it frightened everybody when
they as they were sitting around
00:29:37.26\00:29:39.70
this table engaged in
this communication process.
00:29:39.70\00:29:43.53
And communication started there
was a point at which one of my
00:29:43.53\00:29:46.66
aunts began kind of, you know,
arguing with what was taking
00:29:46.66\00:29:53.60
place with this being
that was communicating.
00:29:53.60\00:29:57.16
And as a kid I watched from
a distance around the corner as
00:29:57.16\00:30:01.30
the table that they were sitting
around literally began to quake
00:30:01.30\00:30:05.63
and to shake and to
just start to lift up.
00:30:05.63\00:30:08.10
And to just move in a
direction across the room.
00:30:08.10\00:30:11.86
I ran to my room and I don't
know memories when you're a kid
00:30:11.86\00:30:17.03
can start to get a
little blurry with the time.
00:30:17.03\00:30:19.23
I don't know if it was days
or weeks later I was lying on my
00:30:19.23\00:30:22.80
bed.
00:30:22.80\00:30:24.03
And this was the experience that
you would think that was the
00:30:24.03\00:30:26.30
scary part.
00:30:26.30\00:30:27.36
Here was the really
scary part for me as a kid.
00:30:27.36\00:30:28.63
I was laying in my room and my
face was toward the wall on my
00:30:28.63\00:30:32.90
bed.
00:30:32.90\00:30:34.00
And something sat on my bed.
00:30:34.00\00:30:38.13
Depressed the
mattress I could feel it.
00:30:38.13\00:30:42.40
And I knew that
it wasn't my mom.
00:30:42.40\00:30:44.80
I knew that it
wasn't a brother or sister.
00:30:44.80\00:30:46.60
>>you just had a sense.
00:30:46.60\00:30:48.16
>>I was terrified.
00:30:48.16\00:30:49.03
Now here's the thing.
00:30:49.03\00:30:50.16
I didn't know till years
later that the bible actually
00:30:50.16\00:30:53.86
says--teaches very clearly
that we are not--this is in
00:30:53.86\00:30:57.76
Deuteronomy we are not to
engage in what the bible calls
00:30:57.76\00:31:00.73
necromancy.
00:31:00.73\00:31:02.80
Which is the word for
communication with the dead.
00:31:02.80\00:31:04.66
Or the bible calls
it familiar spirits.
00:31:04.66\00:31:07.96
And the reason why is because
the dead know not anything,
00:31:07.96\00:31:11.83
scripture says.
00:31:11.83\00:31:13.00
They are in an unconscious
state sleep waiting for the
00:31:13.00\00:31:15.03
resurrection.
00:31:15.03\00:31:16.30
And when human beings
think they're communicating with
00:31:16.30\00:31:19.80
familiar spirits familial
spirits, family members who have
00:31:19.80\00:31:24.73
died.
00:31:24.73\00:31:26.26
Really what they're experiencing
is contact with demonic forces
00:31:26.26\00:31:29.23
that are coming
into the situation.
00:31:29.23\00:31:32.10
And
00:31:32.10\00:31:33.56
>>What did you do?
00:31:33.56\00:31:35.20
In your room when that
depression came on the bed?
00:31:35.20\00:31:36.90
>>I laid there for a long time
just terrified and trembling.
00:31:36.90\00:31:40.16
And finally worked up the
courage to just turn around and
00:31:40.16\00:31:43.23
look.
00:31:43.23\00:31:44.40
And there was nothing there.
00:31:44.40\00:31:45.43
It was not a human being.
00:31:45.43\00:31:46.70
There was a dark spiritual
force right there in my bedroom.
00:31:46.70\00:31:50.10
>>You know I went through an
experience like that once as a
00:31:50.10\00:31:53.10
Christian, as a believer.
00:31:53.10\00:31:54.60
And it reminds me that the bible
teaches very clearly that there
00:31:54.60\00:31:58.00
are good and bad angels.
00:31:58.00\00:32:00.70
In fact you can see this in just
a couple of verses in the book
00:32:00.70\00:32:04.03
of Matthew chapter 4.
00:32:04.03\00:32:05.16
Jesus is in the wilderness.
00:32:05.16\00:32:07.00
He has come to this earth
as a man as a human being.
00:32:07.00\00:32:11.16
And he's been led out into
the wilderness and there he
00:32:11.16\00:32:13.40
encounters Lucifer.
00:32:13.40\00:32:15.06
He encounters the devil.
00:32:15.06\00:32:16.20
He encounters Satan.
00:32:16.20\00:32:17.46
And it says here that the devil
in verse 5 of Matthew 4 took him
00:32:17.46\00:32:20.46
to the holy city and set
him on a pentacle of the temple.
00:32:20.46\00:32:23.80
So there's power.
00:32:23.80\00:32:25.10
There is a spiritual being that
has power to manipulate and take
00:32:25.10\00:32:29.53
control of and
move physical objects.
00:32:29.53\00:32:33.10
>>A body.
00:32:33.10\00:32:34.33
>>Physical objects including
people and do things with them.
00:32:34.33\00:32:36.80
And then he says
what's really interesting.
00:32:36.80\00:32:38.40
He says if you are the son
of God cast yourself for it is
00:32:38.40\00:32:42.83
written He shall give his
angels charge concerning thee.
00:32:42.83\00:32:46.16
And in their hands they shall
bear thee up lest though at any
00:32:46.16\00:32:49.73
time you dash your
foot against a stone.
00:32:49.73\00:32:52.46
In other words the devil himself
is communicating in this verse
00:32:52.46\00:32:54.86
that God has given
angels charge over human beings.
00:32:54.86\00:32:58.50
So there's another confirmation
of what we looked at in Matthew
00:32:58.50\00:33:01.96
chapter 18.
00:33:01.96\00:33:03.16
I was in a situation, as a
believer, a fairly new believer
00:33:03.16\00:33:06.26
where it was night time.
00:33:06.26\00:33:08.16
I was going to
sleep and I was by myself.
00:33:08.16\00:33:10.56
And I just was laying there and
all of a sudden I felt something
00:33:10.56\00:33:14.80
very dark around me.
00:33:14.80\00:33:16.26
Just like you did.
00:33:16.26\00:33:17.73
A presence I don't know how
to explain it other than that.
00:33:17.73\00:33:20.43
But the sense of that presence
got closer and closer and closer
00:33:20.43\00:33:25.06
until I was
completely incapacitated.
00:33:25.06\00:33:27.73
I couldn't move at all.
00:33:27.73\00:33:29.66
And I just felt something was
there completely immobilizing
00:33:29.66\00:33:33.33
me.
00:33:33.33\00:33:34.40
And it was a really
terrifying thought because.
00:33:34.40\00:33:36.40
>>What did you do?
00:33:36.40\00:33:37.60
>>I couldn't move.
00:33:37.60\00:33:39.03
I couldn't do hardly anything.
00:33:39.03\00:33:40.56
All I could do and I
just remember this distinctly
00:33:40.56\00:33:42.90
thinking just cry out for Jesus.
00:33:42.90\00:33:45.46
Just say the name of Jesus.
00:33:45.46\00:33:48.40
And I couldn't
say it with my mouth.
00:33:48.40\00:33:50.86
I couldn't move at all so I just
thought it, thought it, thought
00:33:50.86\00:33:53.03
it, Jesus help me,
Jesus help me, Jesus help me.
00:33:53.03\00:33:54.83
And it was really terrifying
but moments later it was gone.
00:33:54.83\00:33:59.06
Just gone.
00:33:59.06\00:34:00.40
And I think that that experience
was enough for me to realize.
00:34:00.40\00:34:03.00
>>You could move.
00:34:03.00\00:34:04.26
You could talk.
00:34:04.26\00:34:05.13
>>it was gone.
00:34:05.13\00:34:05.86
I was fine.
00:34:05.86\00:34:07.13
>>Empirically you couldn't prove
that experience or my experience
00:34:07.13\00:34:09.23
to anybody.
00:34:09.23\00:34:10.16
I mean it's, it's my experience.
00:34:10.16\00:34:11.93
But you could never prove
to me that it didn't happen.
00:34:11.93\00:34:13.80
>>Yes exactly.
00:34:13.80\00:34:15.03
It was enough for me to know
that these verses we're talking
00:34:15.03\00:34:17.90
about.
00:34:17.90\00:34:19.16
>>You read the gospels and you
see Jesus encountering the same
00:34:19.16\00:34:21.03
thing don't you?
00:34:21.03\00:34:22.03
You see Jesus he's
encountering individuals.
00:34:22.03\00:34:23.66
>>People, people yeah.
00:34:23.66\00:34:25.56
>>In this spiritual conflict
I mean I was in New Mexico and I
00:34:25.56\00:34:28.76
was in somebody's home.
00:34:28.76\00:34:30.16
A Gentlemen's home and I
was there to actually give him a
00:34:30.16\00:34:33.23
bible study and as I was reading
he all of a sudden starts
00:34:33.23\00:34:39.66
talking.
00:34:39.66\00:34:40.86
And his voice went from his
normal voice to [growl] some
00:34:40.86\00:34:44.53
deep creepy voice.
00:34:44.53\00:34:46.30
And I just locked up like this.
00:34:46.30\00:34:48.73
And I just started reading
though I walk through the valley
00:34:48.73\00:34:53.40
of the shadow
of death, you know.
00:34:53.40\00:34:54.80
>>Psalm 91.
00:34:54.80\00:34:55.90
>>I'm like reading.
00:34:55.90\00:34:57.03
And I
couldn't--I wouldn't look up.
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.33
I was just so, you
know he had crazy hair.
00:34:58.33\00:35:00.50
And he would look at you
with these piercing eyes.
00:35:00.50\00:35:02.13
And I just read
and read and read.
00:35:02.13\00:35:04.76
I didn't want to stop reading
and I whispered a prayer at the
00:35:04.76\00:35:08.00
end and I--I was out.
00:35:08.00\00:35:10.40
So obviously there are people
that we--that we encounter and
00:35:10.40\00:35:13.83
that even in
Jesus' day encountered.
00:35:13.83\00:35:15.76
There's--in other words there's
a spiritual war taking place.
00:35:15.76\00:35:18.40
>>There are going to be people.
00:35:18.40\00:35:19.66
There will be people secularists
and moderns who will say that's
00:35:19.66\00:35:24.30
not true.
00:35:24.30\00:35:25.93
There are no Spiritual beings.
00:35:25.93\00:35:27.10
There are no angelic or
demonic or supernatural beings.
00:35:27.10\00:35:30.00
But here's the reality.
00:35:30.00\00:35:31.20
Just factually.
00:35:31.20\00:35:32.60
Just speaking totally factually
if you look at most cultures
00:35:32.60\00:35:36.40
that are presently in existence
and most cultures that have
00:35:36.40\00:35:39.80
historically existed.
00:35:39.80\00:35:41.26
Most of those cultures well in
excess of 70, 80 perhaps even 90
00:35:41.26\00:35:46.03
percent believe in some form
of spiritual power both good and
00:35:46.03\00:35:50.16
evil.
00:35:50.16\00:35:51.50
>>In the supernatural.
00:35:51.50\00:35:52.83
>>That's what I'm
saying in the supernatural.
00:35:52.83\00:35:54.63
And many of those cultures
have a particular fear of spirit
00:35:54.63\00:35:57.16
beings or ancestral spirits.
00:35:57.16\00:36:01.73
So the point here is this isn't
just some quirky little thing
00:36:01.73\00:36:04.90
that happened to Ty or to James
or to Jeffrey or to myself or to
00:36:04.90\00:36:07.60
the listeners.
00:36:07.60\00:36:08.86
These are real things and if you
just go on the, the cooboration
00:36:08.86\00:36:12.70
of historical and cultural data,
many, many, many millions of
00:36:12.70\00:36:18.36
people have had
similar experiences.
00:36:18.36\00:36:20.56
>>What are you supposed to say
that millions upon millions of
00:36:20.56\00:36:22.96
people know that never happened?
00:36:22.96\00:36:24.33
>>The majority, the majority of
the human race for the majority
00:36:24.33\00:36:26.73
of the history of humanity
has always believed in the
00:36:26.73\00:36:29.26
supernatural.
00:36:29.26\00:36:30.60
>>It's only in this modern time
which we are supposedly now to
00:36:30.60\00:36:33.00
scientific for the spiritual
that this is beginning to be
00:36:33.00\00:36:36.73
doubted.
00:36:36.73\00:36:37.96
But even today in so called
modern times the majority of the
00:36:37.96\00:36:40.33
cultures would affirm basic
spiritual realities of good and
00:36:40.33\00:36:43.80
evil.
00:36:43.80\00:36:44.76
>>Can I tell you a positive one?
00:36:44.76\00:36:46.46
>>Of course.
00:36:46.46\00:36:49.23
>>Okay so
[Everyone talking at once]
00:36:49.23\00:36:51.43
>>James shared with us
from scripture that angels are
00:36:51.43\00:36:54.23
guardians to children; they have
an interest in children right?
00:36:54.23\00:36:59.33
Jason, my son, he was no
more than 7, 8 years old.
00:36:59.33\00:37:04.56
We as a family were
visiting friends in Montana.
00:37:04.56\00:37:07.90
They had about 80 acres, not
about; they had 80 acres on the
00:37:07.90\00:37:10.53
boarder of Canada in Montana.
00:37:10.53\00:37:15.13
This is lots of bush, okay.
00:37:15.13\00:37:17.80
We go to this place.
00:37:17.80\00:37:21.20
Jason had a knife that he had
purchased in the Philippines.
00:37:21.20\00:37:27.93
It was a souvenir.
00:37:27.93\00:37:29.70
He was playing with it with
his friends on this piece of
00:37:29.70\00:37:31.56
property.
00:37:31.56\00:37:34.50
The son of the family
we were there visiting.
00:37:34.50\00:37:38.36
They were out
romping on this property.
00:37:38.36\00:37:39.36
He loses the knife, okay.
00:37:39.36\00:37:40.36
The whole
spring/summer/winter goes by.
00:37:40.36\00:37:41.90
We never found the
thing, searched and searched and
00:37:41.90\00:37:43.23
searched.
00:37:43.23\00:37:44.23
Next season, all
this new growth is up.
00:37:44.23\00:37:46.56
All this time has gone by.
00:37:46.56\00:37:48.73
We're back visiting this
family in Montana alright.
00:37:48.73\00:37:52.36
And, Sue, with her children
offers a very simple prayer
00:37:52.36\00:37:57.86
because Jason can't forget
00:37:57.86\00:38:01.26
>>yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:01.26\00:38:03.50
>>He can't forget this knife;
do you think we can find it?
00:38:03.50\00:38:05.43
Do you think we can find it?
00:38:05.43\00:38:06.43
I'm thinking I don't
think we can find it.
00:38:06.43\00:38:07.73
[Laughter]
00:38:07.73\00:38:08.56
>>Okay so can we look?
00:38:08.56\00:38:09.53
Can we look?
00:38:09.53\00:38:11.93
And so we go outside and we
look at all this bush 80 acres
00:38:11.93\00:38:13.40
whatever.
00:38:13.40\00:38:14.50
And Jason's mommy simply
prays, hey Jason let's pray.
00:38:14.50\00:38:17.96
Dear Father in heaven if it's
possible please help Jason, you
00:38:17.96\00:38:21.90
know he liked that souvenir from
the Philippines when we were
00:38:21.90\00:38:26.16
there.
00:38:26.16\00:38:27.83
Help him find it.
00:38:27.83\00:38:29.43
I kid you not.
00:38:29.43\00:38:30.73
We open our eyes from
prayer and they have a dog.
00:38:30.73\00:38:36.13
And this dog, we look down and
is holding that knife from last
00:38:36.13\00:38:42.36
season in his mouth.
00:38:42.36\00:38:46.20
Basically hands
it back to my son.
00:38:46.20\00:38:49.50
You could say whatever you
want [laughter] you could say
00:38:49.50\00:38:55.96
whatever you want.
00:38:55.96\00:38:56.63
>>Are you serious?
00:38:56.63\00:38:57.43
>>I'm dead serious.
00:38:57.43\00:38:58.63
>>I mean I don't doubt you
because I think it's possible.
00:38:58.63\00:39:03.13
>>We're
believers and we doubt you.
00:39:03.13\00:39:04.76
[Laughter]
00:39:04.76\00:39:06.03
>>No I --I'm saying you can't
prove these things empirically.
00:39:06.03\00:39:08.53
I'm telling you this happened.
00:39:08.53\00:39:09.43
>>What did you do?
00:39:09.43\00:39:10.66
I just want to know like
what was the reaction like right
00:39:10.66\00:39:12.60
then.
00:39:12.60\00:39:13.83
>>I was--I was blown away to
say the least and felt kind of a
00:39:13.83\00:39:14.86
weird nervous
feeling in my stomach.
00:39:14.86\00:39:16.60
That's what I felt.
00:39:16.60\00:39:18.33
>>What did Sue say or do.
00:39:18.33\00:39:20.06
>>Jason was
simple as a little boy.
00:39:20.06\00:39:22.26
He was just like oh neat.
00:39:22.26\00:39:24.20
He got his knife you know.
00:39:24.20\00:39:26.30
[Laughter]
00:39:26.30\00:39:27.56
>>We gotta take a break but when
we come back we need to develop
00:39:27.56\00:39:32.13
our character profile of Lucifer
because that's where we were
00:39:32.13\00:39:34.90
going and we need
to finish that next.
00:39:34.90\00:39:36.30
>>Amen, amen.
00:39:36.30\00:39:37.43
>>Digma videos are short
engaging messages designed for
00:39:37.43\00:39:47.46
>>Digma videos are short
engaging messages designed for
00:39:47.46\00:39:53.66
opening up discussion with
individuals and groups regarding
00:39:53.66\00:39:56.90
the character of God as well
as your own personal, spiritual
00:39:56.90\00:39:59.93
growth.
00:39:59.93\00:40:01.06
For your free DVD sample
collection of Digma videos call
00:40:01.06\00:40:04.40
1-877-585-1111.
00:40:04.40\00:40:07.40
Or write to Light Bearers, 37457
Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR
00:40:07.40\00:40:12.66
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00:40:12.66\00:40:15.13
Once again for your free
DVD sample collection of Digma
00:40:15.13\00:40:19.23
videos call 1-877-585-1111.
00:40:19.23\00:40:25.26
Or write to Light Bearers, 37457
Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR
00:40:25.26\00:40:29.60
97438.
00:40:29.60\00:40:32.46
Simply ask for Digma DVD 2.
00:40:32.46\00:40:40.30
>>Clearly the bible identifies
powers of evil, powers of good.
00:40:40.30\00:40:43.56
Forces of evil, forces of good;
spiritual wickedness in high
00:40:43.56\00:40:45.56
places.
00:40:45.56\00:40:48.10
We've looked at this
from biblical perspectives.
00:40:48.10\00:40:50.50
We've looked at it from
an experiential perspective.
00:40:50.50\00:40:52.26
All of us have somehow
experienced the dark side of the
00:40:52.26\00:40:56.40
forces that are in this world.
00:40:56.40\00:40:58.13
So who specifically is this?
00:40:58.13\00:41:00.93
I mean what is this being
that we've been talking about?
00:41:00.93\00:41:03.60
These angels that follow him.
00:41:03.60\00:41:05.56
Does the bible identify him?
00:41:05.56\00:41:07.36
What is he like?
00:41:07.36\00:41:08.30
What is his personality like?
00:41:08.30\00:41:10.23
What is he up to?
00:41:10.23\00:41:12.36
What is his purpose?
00:41:12.36\00:41:14.60
How did he come into being?
00:41:14.60\00:41:16.16
Was he created by God?
00:41:16.16\00:41:17.30
>>In the course of our
conversation we've used several
00:41:17.30\00:41:18.46
names for him.
00:41:18.46\00:41:19.56
We've said Satan.
00:41:19.56\00:41:20.63
We've said devil.
00:41:20.63\00:41:21.73
We've said Lucifer.
00:41:21.73\00:41:23.06
>>Beelzebub.
00:41:23.06\00:41:24.03
>>Beelzebub.
00:41:24.03\00:41:25.23
These are all terms that
the bible uses to describe this
00:41:25.23\00:41:26.70
power that we're talking about
and fortunately for us we're not
00:41:26.70\00:41:28.00
left to wonder what is this
strange dark force that I feel
00:41:28.00\00:41:33.00
in my room or in
the woods or whatever.
00:41:33.00\00:41:34.90
The bible comes right out and
fingers this individual as none
00:41:34.90\00:41:39.43
other than one of these angels
that rebelled against God's
00:41:39.43\00:41:45.30
government.
00:41:45.30\00:41:46.16
>>Let's put some
scripture on the table.
00:41:46.16\00:41:48.23
>>Okay.
00:41:48.23\00:41:49.03
>>Isaiah chapter 14.
00:41:49.03\00:41:49.93
>>Bring it Jeffrey.
00:41:49.93\00:41:51.20
>>Isaiah chapter 14 is the
lifting the curtain, giving us a
00:41:51.20\00:41:54.40
glimpse behind the scenes.
00:41:54.40\00:41:55.70
And I'm just going
to read from verse 12.
00:41:55.70\00:41:57.40
>>Okay.
00:41:57.40\00:41:58.40
>>I think this is one
of the foundational verses.
00:41:58.40\00:42:03.33
How are you fallen from heaven
oh Lucifer son of the morning.
00:42:03.33\00:42:07.40
How you are cut down to
the ground you who weakened the
00:42:07.40\00:42:11.43
nations.
00:42:11.43\00:42:13.76
You have said in your
heart I will ascend into heaven.
00:42:13.76\00:42:15.73
I will exalt my throne
above the stars of God.
00:42:15.73\00:42:19.03
I will sit on the mount of
the congregation on the farthest
00:42:19.03\00:42:24.76
sides of the north.
00:42:24.76\00:42:26.96
I will ascend above
the heights of the clouds.
00:42:26.96\00:42:29.16
I will be like the most high.
00:42:29.16\00:42:31.53
>>That's astounding.
00:42:31.53\00:42:32.80
>>And there's a link here.
00:42:32.80\00:42:34.03
I mean there's several links
here but just one link here that
00:42:34.03\00:42:36.80
just jumped out at me right now
is I will be like the most high.
00:42:36.80\00:42:39.46
So it reminds me of Genesis 3.
00:42:39.46\00:42:43.90
You will be like God.
00:42:43.90\00:42:49.30
>>Right.
00:42:49.30\00:42:50.56
>>So the same--there's a passion
here to be like the most high to
00:42:50.56\00:42:51.93
be like God and it's almost like
an echo from Genesis 3 where he
00:42:51.93\00:42:56.63
promises you will be like God.
00:42:56.63\00:42:58.16
>>Very much so and because
chronologically what's taking
00:42:58.16\00:43:02.36
place here in Isaiah 14
is actually before Genesis 3.
00:43:02.36\00:43:05.03
In a way Genesis 3
is an echo of this.
00:43:05.03\00:43:07.86
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:43:07.86\00:43:09.43
Chronologically
that would be the case.
00:43:09.43\00:43:11.20
I see something going on
here that is really, really
00:43:11.20\00:43:14.20
fascinating for what we
talked about in Genesis 3.
00:43:14.20\00:43:19.53
And that is that Lucifer's
basic framework of thinking is
00:43:19.53\00:43:24.73
described here and he's being
quoted in a sense by the prophet
00:43:24.73\00:43:29.26
right?
00:43:29.26\00:43:30.20
You said in your heart.
00:43:30.20\00:43:31.36
So this is getting
into his inner thinking.
00:43:31.36\00:43:34.20
You said in your heart.
00:43:34.20\00:43:35.70
I will ascend into heaven.
00:43:35.70\00:43:37.73
I will exalt my throne
about the stars above God.
00:43:37.73\00:43:40.83
I will sit in the mount of
the congregation on the farthest
00:43:40.83\00:43:44.33
sides of the north.
00:43:44.33\00:43:45.70
I will ascend above
the heights of the clouds.
00:43:45.70\00:43:47.86
Now here's the thing
I'm going to say alright.
00:43:47.86\00:43:50.66
I will be like the most
high is the final of the five.
00:43:50.66\00:43:51.93
And what's happening here is
a kind of demonic psychological
00:43:51.93\00:43:59.90
projection if I
can use that word.
00:43:59.90\00:44:02.43
Lucifer is saying
I will exalt myself.
00:44:02.43\00:44:05.10
I will live with
reference to myself.
00:44:05.10\00:44:08.03
I will be
self-serving and self-centered.
00:44:08.03\00:44:10.40
I will be like God.
00:44:10.40\00:44:11.93
Did you hear that?
00:44:11.93\00:44:13.80
>>yeah.
00:44:13.80\00:44:15.26
>>Okay so what he is saying
00:44:15.26\00:44:17.40
>>That's huge.
00:44:17.40\00:44:18.66
>>In Genesis 3 is he is saying
essentially you remember God is
00:44:18.66\00:44:21.33
self-serving.
00:44:21.33\00:44:24.90
He's denying the existence of
love in God and in the universe.
00:44:24.90\00:44:28.06
And he's basically
becoming self-centered.
00:44:28.06\00:44:32.90
Sin is originating in him.
00:44:32.90\00:44:35.36
It's self-centeredness.
00:44:35.36\00:44:36.63
It's originating in him and then
he's basically saying God's like
00:44:36.63\00:44:40.06
that.
00:44:40.06\00:44:41.03
He's projecting his
bad character on God.
00:44:41.03\00:44:43.96
Isn't that amazing?
00:44:43.96\00:44:47.26
>>It's amazing.
00:44:47.26\00:44:48.30
>>That's powerful cool.
00:44:48.30\00:44:49.66
Question real quick.
00:44:49.66\00:44:50.90
I will be like the most high.
00:44:50.90\00:44:52.00
Well we've been
establishing that God is love.
00:44:52.00\00:44:54.16
God is love.
00:44:54.16\00:44:55.10
God is love.
00:44:55.10\00:44:56.30
Did this rebellious being,
selfish rebellious being want to
00:44:56.30\00:44:59.43
be love.
00:44:59.43\00:45:00.63
>>Obviously not.
00:45:00.63\00:45:02.90
>>No his misunderstood.
00:45:02.90\00:45:04.50
>>He's denying
the existence of love.
00:45:04.50\00:45:06.40
>>Isn't that interesting?
00:45:06.40\00:45:07.53
So he's demonstrating a
misconception of God as you were
00:45:07.53\00:45:09.73
saying.
00:45:09.73\00:45:10.73
>>He does not want to
be like God in character.
00:45:10.73\00:45:12.33
He wants to be
like God in power.
00:45:12.33\00:45:13.70
>>That's it.
00:45:13.70\00:45:14.83
That's it.
00:45:14.83\00:45:16.20
>>That's an
excellent way of saying it.
00:45:16.20\00:45:17.80
>>And he assumes that God is
leading by position and not by
00:45:17.80\00:45:19.93
influence.
00:45:19.93\00:45:21.53
If I could just
have the position.
00:45:21.53\00:45:23.00
>>Oh I love that.
00:45:23.00\00:45:24.20
>>That's good isn't it?
00:45:24.20\00:45:25.36
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:45:25.36\00:45:27.56
>>If I could just have the
position then I would be God.
00:45:27.56\00:45:28.76
But what makes God
so awesome and special.
00:45:28.76\00:45:29.90
>>It's his character.
00:45:29.90\00:45:30.90
>>The position that he occupies.
00:45:30.90\00:45:32.43
In fact, the biblical story,
and we're getting way ahead.
00:45:32.43\00:45:33.93
But the biblical story is that
God will actually relinquish
00:45:33.93\00:45:36.26
that position at the top.
00:45:36.26\00:45:37.53
And still carry the influence
because he leads because of who
00:45:37.53\00:45:40.23
he is.
00:45:40.23\00:45:41.20
>>Isn't that something?
00:45:41.20\00:45:44.30
>>Yeah, God will ultimately,
can we say rule the universe by
00:45:44.30\00:45:46.00
means of benevolent love.
00:45:46.00\00:45:48.13
And not by means of
authoritarian control.
00:45:48.13\00:45:51.53
>>By influence.
00:45:51.53\00:45:52.80
>>The thing that really emerges
to me that I see in the passage
00:45:52.80\00:45:55.86
here are these
five I will statements.
00:45:55.86\00:45:58.33
Right because he
says I will ascend.
00:45:58.33\00:46:00.70
I will exalt.
00:46:00.70\00:46:02.13
I will sit on the mount.
00:46:02.13\00:46:04.06
I will ascend again.
00:46:04.06\00:46:05.13
And I will be
like the most high.
00:46:05.13\00:46:06.40
And so each of those statements
I will I will I will I will is a
00:46:06.40\00:46:10.56
clear demonstration
that this is a war of wills.
00:46:10.56\00:46:13.36
Right he has a will.
00:46:13.36\00:46:15.90
He has a desire and he is
at the center of his desire.
00:46:15.90\00:46:18.96
I'm going to.
00:46:18.96\00:46:20.23
I'm going to.
00:46:20.23\00:46:21.03
I'm going to.
00:46:21.03\00:46:21.70
And so it's a war of wills.
00:46:21.70\00:46:24.40
That's the first thing.
00:46:24.40\00:46:26.03
The second thing very quickly
is when you notice all of the
00:46:26.03\00:46:28.40
language that
communicates up, upward motion.
00:46:28.40\00:46:31.70
I will ascend
number one into heaven.
00:46:31.70\00:46:34.60
Number two I will exalt.
00:46:34.60\00:46:35.80
Number three my throne above.
00:46:35.80\00:46:37.20
Number four the stars.
00:46:37.20\00:46:38.50
Five of God.
00:46:38.50\00:46:39.76
I will sit on the mount six of
the congregation on the farthest
00:46:39.76\00:46:43.03
sides of the north.
00:46:43.03\00:46:44.26
Seven I will ascend eight above
nine the heights ten of the
00:46:44.26\00:46:46.66
clouds eleven.
00:46:46.66\00:46:47.96
I will be like the most high.
00:46:47.96\00:46:49.16
Depending on your various
translation and exactly how you
00:46:49.16\00:46:53.03
count it.
00:46:53.03\00:46:54.30
You have not less than ten maybe
as many as twelve references to
00:46:54.30\00:46:56.46
I'll go up, up, up, up, up,
up I want to be higher than the
00:46:56.46\00:47:02.00
sphere that has
been allocated to me.
00:47:02.00\00:47:06.53
>>That's a that's--that's the
demonic psyche right there its
00:47:06.53\00:47:10.16
self-exaltation.
00:47:10.16\00:47:11.43
The amazing thing is as the poem
progresses I will exalt ascend
00:47:11.43\00:47:15.80
and it's going up, up, up, up.
00:47:15.80\00:47:18.23
And then
00:47:18.23\00:47:19.10
>>15
00:47:19.10\00:47:20.86
>>yet verse 15 you
will be brought down.
00:47:20.86\00:47:23.10
You will be brought down to hell
to the lowest depths of the pit.
00:47:23.10\00:47:28.26
Up, up, up, down.
00:47:28.26\00:47:30.80
I mean you could say that
self-exaltation leads to a
00:47:30.80\00:47:36.93
diminishment of
influence and power.
00:47:36.93\00:47:38.86
It doesn't grow a
person's influence and power.
00:47:38.86\00:47:40.53
It actually loses power.
00:47:40.53\00:47:42.33
>>We know this to be the case.
00:47:42.33\00:47:43.93
If you have a politician or a
leader who tries to lead by his
00:47:43.93\00:47:47.13
force and by his power and
not by the person, not by the
00:47:47.13\00:47:52.60
quality of his character.
00:47:52.60\00:47:53.73
That by the strength of
his position we call that a
00:47:53.73\00:47:55.56
dictatorship.
00:47:55.56\00:47:57.20
Right?
00:47:57.20\00:47:58.93
And who wants to
be under a dictator?
00:47:58.93\00:48:00.93
Nobody wants to be
under a dictatorship.
00:48:00.93\00:48:02.56
And so it's this basic idea that
as I leverage my position for
00:48:02.56\00:48:07.16
influence and control my actual
credibility in the eyes of my
00:48:07.16\00:48:11.46
subjects
diminishes not increases.
00:48:11.46\00:48:12.80
>>Exactly the
opposite with Christ.
00:48:12.80\00:48:14.80
Exactly the opposite with God.
00:48:14.80\00:48:16.23
But with God and the person of
Christ in Philippians chapter 2.
00:48:16.23\00:48:20.33
>>Yes.
00:48:20.33\00:48:21.13
>>It talks about the downward.
00:48:21.13\00:48:22.50
>>Yes.
00:48:22.50\00:48:23.80
>>Descending.
00:48:23.80\00:48:24.76
Now notice this.
00:48:24.76\00:48:26.03
This is really interesting
beginning with verse 5
00:48:26.03\00:48:28.66
Philippians chapter 2 it says
let this mind be in you which
00:48:28.66\00:48:31.16
was also in Christ Jesus.
00:48:31.16\00:48:32.43
So this is calling us to partake
of the nature and the character
00:48:32.43\00:48:35.90
of God who being in the form of
God did not consider it robbery
00:48:35.90\00:48:38.63
to be equal with God verse 7.
00:48:38.63\00:48:40.56
But made himself
of no reputation.
00:48:40.56\00:48:42.23
There's the first.
00:48:42.23\00:48:43.83
Took the form of a
bond servant, second.
00:48:43.83\00:48:45.66
Came in the
likeness of men, third.
00:48:45.66\00:48:47.56
Being found in the
appearance of a man, fourth.
00:48:47.56\00:48:50.60
Humbled himself, five.
00:48:50.60\00:48:51.76
And became obedient
to the point of death.
00:48:51.76\00:48:53.36
Even the death of the cross.
00:48:53.36\00:48:56.63
>>I'd say became obedient,
six even in death of the cross.
00:48:56.63\00:48:58.33
Not just any ordinary.
00:48:58.33\00:49:00.43
>>Yes.
00:49:00.43\00:49:01.20
>>result down, down down.
00:49:01.20\00:49:02.13
>>Down, down, down.
00:49:02.13\00:49:03.36
>>Notice this though verse 9
therefore God also has highly
00:49:03.36\00:49:05.83
exalted him.
00:49:05.83\00:49:06.83
>>Yes.
00:49:06.83\00:49:08.06
>>And given him a name above
every name that at the name of
00:49:08.06\00:49:11.23
Jesus every knee shall bow
in heaven and those on earth and
00:49:11.23\00:49:15.03
those under the earth and every
tongue should confess that Jesus
00:49:15.03\00:49:18.43
Christ is Lord to the
glory of God the father.
00:49:18.43\00:49:20.03
>>Key word there is therefore.
00:49:20.03\00:49:21.46
>>Yeah so you have this humbling
going down, down, down, down.
00:49:21.46\00:49:26.03
Which is the mind of
God, the character of God.
00:49:26.03\00:49:28.73
That not only brings exaltation
but also brings the entire
00:49:28.73\00:49:32.20
universe to acknowledge.
00:49:32.20\00:49:34.83
>>That's right.
00:49:34.83\00:49:35.90
To appreciate him in the
strength of his character.
00:49:35.90\00:49:37.13
>>For his character.
00:49:37.13\00:49:38.13
>>Amazing.
00:49:38.13\00:49:38.83
>>So you have an exact inverse.
00:49:38.83\00:49:39.90
You have just like that.
00:49:39.90\00:49:41.60
Here is I'm going to go
up at the expense of others.
00:49:41.60\00:49:45.03
And the ultimate result
is that you're brought down.
00:49:45.03\00:49:47.23
Here's I'll go down
for the benefit of others.
00:49:47.23\00:49:49.93
And the ultimate result is that
you're exalted by the very ones
00:49:49.93\00:49:52.56
for whom you humbled yourself.
00:49:52.56\00:49:53.83
>>Isn't that something?
00:49:53.83\00:49:56.10
>>And even those who
are not buying into that.
00:49:56.10\00:49:58.90
In other words this
is all the universe.
00:49:58.90\00:50:01.43
This is not just those who
are benefited from eternally.
00:50:01.43\00:50:03.90
But those also who are
looking on like Lucifer and.
00:50:03.90\00:50:06.36
>>At some level every single
being recognizes the justice.
00:50:06.36\00:50:09.93
>>Yes.
00:50:09.93\00:50:11.00
>>And goodness of God.
00:50:11.00\00:50:11.76
At the end of time.
00:50:11.76\00:50:12.63
Believer recognize it now.
00:50:12.63\00:50:14.36
>>The humility and the love of
God the selfless giving of God.
00:50:14.36\00:50:17.03
>>Yes.
00:50:17.03\00:50:18.23
>>Another thing that I've
noticed here in Isaiah 14 and
00:50:18.23\00:50:20.40
this character profile of
Lucifer is that he's had a
00:50:20.40\00:50:25.23
devastating or an adverse effect
upon nations and kingdoms.
00:50:25.23\00:50:28.86
It says at the end of verse
12 you who weakened the nations.
00:50:28.86\00:50:34.26
So he's exerting influence and
then it says in verse 16 that he
00:50:34.26\00:50:39.03
shook kingdoms.
00:50:39.03\00:50:41.33
In verse 17 he's the one that
made the world a wilderness or a
00:50:41.33\00:50:46.16
desolate place and
he destroyed the cities.
00:50:46.16\00:50:48.20
So, so he's exerting
00:50:48.20\00:50:49.93
>>his influence.
00:50:49.93\00:50:51.90
>>And overall destructive effect
on nations and kingdoms and the
00:50:51.90\00:50:56.90
world as a whole.
00:50:56.90\00:50:58.16
I don't know if it's a good idea
to quote from the rolling stones
00:50:58.16\00:51:03.46
but I found as a teenager
when I first began to wake up
00:51:03.46\00:51:08.36
spiritually very fascinating the
song sympathy for the devil by
00:51:08.36\00:51:12.96
the rolling stones.
00:51:12.96\00:51:15.00
The lyrics are just incredible
please allow me to introduce
00:51:15.00\00:51:18.20
myself I'm a man
of wealth and taste.
00:51:18.20\00:51:20.53
I've been around for a long,
long year stolen many a man's
00:51:20.53\00:51:24.93
soul and faith.
00:51:24.93\00:51:26.73
I was around when Jesus Christ
had his moment of doubt and
00:51:26.73\00:51:31.63
pain.
00:51:31.63\00:51:32.86
Made sure that Pilate washed
his hands and sealed his fate.
00:51:32.86\00:51:36.20
Pleased to meet you
hope you guess my name.
00:51:36.20\00:51:38.16
But what's puzzling me
was the nature of my game.
00:51:38.16\00:51:40.76
And then he says this Isaiah
14 remember nations, kingdoms.
00:51:40.76\00:51:44.90
He says, he says here I stuck
around St. Petersburg, Russia
00:51:44.90\00:51:52.06
that is.
00:51:52.06\00:51:53.36
When I saw it was time for a
change I killed the Czar and his
00:51:53.36\00:51:55.53
ministers and
Anastasia screamed in vain.
00:51:55.53\00:52:00.70
I rode a tank held a general's
rank when the Blitz Krieg raged
00:52:00.70\00:52:04.66
and the bodies stank.
00:52:04.66\00:52:07.30
Please to meet you
hope you guess my name.
00:52:07.30\00:52:09.43
And then the song
closes just call me Lucifer.
00:52:09.43\00:52:13.93
Because I'm in
need of some restraint.
00:52:13.93\00:52:16.86
It's an amazing lyric.
00:52:16.86\00:52:19.00
>>It's terrifyingly
biblically accurate.
00:52:19.00\00:52:23.50
>>Yeah so he has an effect
on the nations, on kingdoms.
00:52:23.50\00:52:26.40
Here in this song anyway.
00:52:26.40\00:52:28.33
>>And he has an
effect on musicians too.
00:52:28.33\00:52:30.20
>>The devil is involved
in the French revolution.
00:52:30.20\00:52:33.93
I mean in the Russian
revolution in the Blitz Krieg.
00:52:33.93\00:52:36.83
Anyways, I just, that lyric
jolted me as a teenager and made
00:52:36.83\00:52:41.00
me wonder.
00:52:41.00\00:52:42.33
>>How could it not.
00:52:42.33\00:52:43.20
>>yeah.
00:52:43.20\00:52:44.03
>>That takes us
right to Ezekiel 28.
00:52:44.03\00:52:45.03
>>Alright.
00:52:45.03\00:52:46.26
>>Because in Ezekiel 28 you
have this other description of
00:52:46.26\00:52:48.36
Lucifer and it begins in Ezekiel
28 it begins here in verse 12.
00:52:48.36\00:52:54.93
And as you begin this
description of Lucifer here son
00:52:54.93\00:52:59.83
of man take up the lamentation
the king of Tyrus and say to him
00:52:59.83\00:53:03.83
thus says the Lord
you sealed up the sum.
00:53:03.83\00:53:07.10
You were full of wisdom perfect
in beauty verse 13 you were in
00:53:07.10\00:53:10.66
Eden the garden of God.
00:53:10.66\00:53:12.03
Every precious stone was thy
covering, the Sardis, the topaz,
00:53:12.03\00:53:14.90
the diadem, the barrel of the
onyx, the jasper, the sapphire,
00:53:14.90\00:53:18.60
the emerald, the
carbuncle, and the gold.
00:53:18.60\00:53:21.26
The workmanship of thy taberets
and of thy pipes was prepared in
00:53:21.26\00:53:25.06
the day that though was created.
00:53:25.06\00:53:27.50
This is a parallel of symbolism
here of tyrus but also of
00:53:27.50\00:53:33.23
Lucifer and the pipes that
are being talked about here are
00:53:33.23\00:53:36.33
directly connected to music.
00:53:36.33\00:53:39.73
To his ability to actually
or his involvement in music.
00:53:39.73\00:53:44.13
In other words, and it's
also brought about in Ephesians
00:53:44.13\00:53:49.86
chapter 2 it talks about how
that this power is the prince of
00:53:49.86\00:53:54.60
the power of the air.
00:53:54.60\00:53:55.76
You got pipes.
00:53:55.76\00:53:56.76
You got air.
00:53:56.76\00:53:58.33
You've got, you've got a direct
connecting here between Lucifer
00:53:58.33\00:54:00.73
and there's a lot more here that
we need to look into as far as
00:54:00.73\00:54:03.86
his description
and what he's like.
00:54:03.86\00:54:05.23
But Lucifer and the angelic
choirs because in heaven, in
00:54:05.23\00:54:10.26
fact God himself is musical.
00:54:10.26\00:54:13.16
The bible describes
God as singing over us.
00:54:13.16\00:54:15.56
And all of heaven is a place
of music of praise, continual
00:54:15.56\00:54:20.16
praise toward God.
00:54:20.16\00:54:21.30
And here Lucifer is described
as the covering cherub.
00:54:21.30\00:54:23.86
The covering angel.
00:54:23.86\00:54:25.73
The one that was probably
highest in rank of all of the
00:54:25.73\00:54:28.86
angels, or all the created
angels next to God, next the the
00:54:28.86\00:54:33.63
throne of God and quite
surely in charge of music.
00:54:33.63\00:54:38.96
In charge of praise.
00:54:38.96\00:54:40.30
>>You know this text
brings up a question.
00:54:40.30\00:54:42.03
It mentions perfection,
perfect numerous times here.
00:54:42.03\00:54:45.83
But if this being was perfect
like the bible says he was how
00:54:45.83\00:54:51.40
can a perfect being become
corrupt in the sense that the
00:54:51.40\00:54:57.43
bible describes it?
00:54:57.43\00:55:01.03
>>Well verse 15
James didn't get to that.
00:55:01.03\00:55:03.73
I thnk at least begins
to answer the question.
00:55:03.73\00:55:06.20
>>read verse 14 too 14 and 15.
00:55:06.20\00:55:08.33
>>Okay
00:55:08.33\00:55:09.10
>>'Cause he stopped at 13.
00:55:09.10\00:55:10.33
>>Alright verse 14 you were
the anointed cherub who covers.
00:55:10.33\00:55:13.93
I established you.
00:55:13.93\00:55:15.43
You were on the
holy mountain of God.
00:55:15.43\00:55:17.26
You walked back and forth in the
midst of the stones of fire, the
00:55:17.26\00:55:20.06
fiery stones.
00:55:20.06\00:55:21.30
Verse 15 you were perfect in
your ways in the day that you
00:55:21.30\00:55:24.36
were created till
iniquity was found in you.
00:55:24.36\00:55:26.60
So I think that scripture
clearly is saying, you know, in
00:55:26.60\00:55:33.06
answer to the
issue you're raising.
00:55:33.06\00:55:34.13
How could perfect
being sin or become corrupt.
00:55:34.13\00:55:35.73
It was self-actualized.
00:55:35.73\00:55:37.16
He is the
origin of sin and evil.
00:55:37.16\00:55:40.63
It says he was created perfect
but iniquity was found in you.
00:55:40.63\00:55:46.13
So this is something
that originated in him.
00:55:46.13\00:55:49.30
It's not something--God didn't
create, you could say it this
00:55:49.30\00:55:54.60
way.
00:55:54.60\00:55:55.93
God didn't create Satan.
00:55:55.93\00:55:57.00
God created Lucifer the
unfallen, beautiful angel.
00:55:57.00\00:55:59.63
Lucifer created Satan.
00:55:59.63\00:56:01.36
>>Does it go back to what we
were talking about earlier that
00:56:01.36\00:56:03.60
in the book of Genesis part of
God's creation in his creatures
00:56:03.60\00:56:08.86
was the volitional, the ability
to make actual decisions that
00:56:08.86\00:56:12.90
mattered.
00:56:12.90\00:56:14.93
>>Yeah for sure.
00:56:14.93\00:56:17.20
>>Of Course.
00:56:17.20\00:56:18.36
>>We're gonna have to
continue on with this subject.
00:56:18.36\00:56:20.76
>>Because I feel like
we're just getting started.
00:56:20.76\00:56:23.53
>>Yeah we're just getting
started on the volition issue,
00:56:23.53\00:56:25.70
the free will issue.
00:56:25.70\00:56:26.96
>>But we have accomplished at
least most of what we set out to
00:56:26.96\00:56:28.93
accomplish.
00:56:28.93\00:56:30.10
And that was basically to
establish that we live in an
00:56:30.10\00:56:31.70
inhabited universe.
00:56:31.70\00:56:33.40
We said in an earlier
conversation that the universe
00:56:33.40\00:56:35.33
was friendly and
that is partially true.
00:56:35.33\00:56:39.20
Because the universe is
friendly at the divine level.
00:56:39.20\00:56:42.56
But we've learned in this
presentation that there is a
00:56:42.56\00:56:46.36
level at which the
universe is not friendly.
00:56:46.36\00:56:47.33
There is a dark power.
00:56:47.33\00:56:48.30
>>Right.
00:56:48.30\00:56:49.60
>>there is a power that
is in rebellion against God.
00:56:49.60\00:56:51.93
And we've learned that
it's an angelic power, it's a
00:56:51.93\00:56:54.03
self-centered power, so in that
sense you said we were going to
00:56:54.03\00:56:57.93
accomplish this, this
and this at the beginning.
00:56:57.93\00:56:59.66
And we've done most of that.
00:56:59.66\00:57:00.80
But we can talk even
more about it and we need to.
00:57:00.80\00:57:03.60
>>Yeah, the third one was
basically that we said we were
00:57:03.60\00:57:07.06
gonna cover is that humanity and
planet earth is the center now
00:57:07.06\00:57:10.50
of this war
between good and evil.
00:57:10.50\00:57:12.16
And we're just gonna have
to develop that subject more.
00:57:12.16\00:57:14.50
We basically seen that
it is in fact the case.
00:57:14.50\00:57:16.56
Lucifer fell and according to
Revelation chapter 12 he came to
00:57:16.56\00:57:21.83
this earth to set up camp.
00:57:21.83\00:57:23.73
>>And even what we spent in
our last conversation in that
00:57:23.73\00:57:25.30
Lucifer, the serpent, Satan is
in the tree deceiving Adam and
00:57:25.30\00:57:31.60
Eve demonstrates that mankind is
at the center of this conflict.
00:57:31.60\00:57:36.20
>>Okay guys so
00:57:36.20\00:57:37.70
>>And there is a lot more here
that we can bring out as far as
00:57:37.70\00:57:40.03
answering some of
Jeffrey's questions.
00:57:40.03\00:57:41.63
>>So, so we literally
have just seconds left.
00:57:41.63\00:57:44.56
So what's the take away?
00:57:44.56\00:57:47.00
Number one we do live
in an inhabited universe.
00:57:47.00\00:57:50.83
>>That's
friendly and unfriendly.
00:57:50.83\00:57:52.36
>>And Lucifer is an actual being
who is fallen and number three
00:57:52.36\00:57:57.63
the great controversy between
good and evil is right here
00:57:57.63\00:58:01.80
right now on planet
earth among the human race.
00:58:01.80\00:58:05.13
>>Exactly
00:58:05.13\00:58:06.10
>>It's real.
00:58:06.10\00:58:09.03
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