Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000004
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00:01 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:21 >>Our conversation for, for this particular topic is going to go 00:26 in a negative dark direction at first. 00:28 But there's even good news in what we're going to be 00:32 discovering. 00:33 We've talked about what is the bible and what's it about. 00:37 We've talked about God. 00:39 >>God. 00:40 >>His nature, His character, what and who is God. 00:42 We've spent some time talking about creation. 00:45 What we are as human beings and how God made us and for what 00:49 purpose. 00:51 And now we're going to talk about what is commonly referred 00:53 to as the fall with a capital f. 00:56 >>Hmm. 00:57 >>The fall of humanity. 00:58 It's a sobering subject. 01:00 We, all of us are caught in the aftermath of the fall. 01:05 We wake up every day. 01:06 We experience the residual effects of that colossal event 01:12 in the history of God's creation of the universe. 01:16 So let's-- just begin to probe this subject. 01:20 Let's just dive right into it. 01:21 Its bad news but we'll discover some good news in it. 01:25 >>Something that I want to just say right off the bat when you 01:28 mention the things that we've been over. 01:31 Our third conversation was all about creation. 01:33 Man I loved that conversation. 01:34 There were so many little things--everybody was just 01:36 really in the zone. 01:38 I think they've all been really nice but something I think we 01:40 maybe didn't say exactly. 01:41 But we probably should have said at some point. 01:44 It was certainly implied. 01:45 And that is that even though the Genesis creation account is 01:49 poetic. 01:50 Even though there's poetic language in there. 01:52 The account is a literal, historical account of what 01:56 actually happened. 01:57 Now the reason I bring that up here is that we're about ready 02:00 to get into part of that. 02:01 You know the fall in Genesis chapter 3 tells a story. 02:05 And it's not just an analogy. 02:06 It's not just a metaphor. 02:07 It's not just some legendary embellishment. 02:12 No this happened. 02:14 And creation happened. 02:15 And this is what happened when God's original plan was 02:18 circumvented. 02:21 >>I've heard people say occasionally. 02:22 Hey, Genesis is written in poetic style. 02:26 It's a chiastic structure and it's a poem. 02:29 So we shouldn't take it literally. 02:31 But if you think about it people communicate through poetry, 02:37 actual things that have happened. 02:40 Or things they aspire to. 02:42 A person writes a song because they are trying to communicate 02:45 something. 02:46 So just because something is written in a poetic form doesn't 02:48 mean it's not true or that its fiction. 02:52 >>That's the point. 02:53 >>Yeah that's the point. 02:55 Exactly. 02:56 So when we transition I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly 02:58 that we just want to go right to Genesis three. 02:59 >>Yeah for sure. 03:01 >>Because we go Genesis one, Genesis two. 03:03 We've spent a lot of time on that. 03:04 God He creates. 03:05 He creates man in his image, it's good, it's good. 03:07 In fact I don't even know if we read that verse. 03:09 But we probably should. 03:10 I mean that's just a great place to start. 03:12 Is Genesis 1:31 Genesis chapter 1 verse 31, the last verse of 03:14 that chapter says then God saw everything that he had made. 03:19 And indeed it was very good. 03:22 So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 03:24 And that's a recurrent theme. 03:25 Talking about those, sort of poetic repetitions. 03:27 You have that and it was good and it was good. 03:30 God saw that it was good, that it was good, that it was good, 03:33 and then it concludes that God looks out. 03:35 You know, the vast panorama of all that he has made including 03:38 and especially mankind. 03:39 And He says it's very good. 03:41 >>Mmm 03:43 >>Yeah, so the difference between good, good, good, good, 03:45 good I think that's five and very good is creation in process 03:48 and all the different, that's six, ok. 03:51 [Laughter] 03:53 >>So five days it's good and on the sixth day it's very good, 03:55 creation in process with its various parts, creation 03:59 complete, perfect. 04:01 And that perfection was free of all pain and suffering and evil. 04:06 There was no relational tension or breakdown. 04:12 We've described that perfect pristine identic state as a 04:17 relational bliss. 04:18 In our previous conversations we've talked about the fact that 04:21 God basically is relational bliss. 04:25 >>Yes 04:26 >>Relational enjoyment Father, Son and Holy Spirit living 04:28 forever in eternity past and in love relationship with one 04:32 another. 04:33 Then created their image. 04:34 Their image, the man and the woman with the capacity for 04:38 creating a family, a growing family was also bliss. 04:41 It was it was other centeredness. 04:44 Adam saw Eve and related to her in reference to her needs. 04:48 >>Yes. 04:49 >>And vice versa. 04:52 >>Mhm. 04:53 >>There was not self-consciousness. 04:54 There was no sense of oh wow what does she think of me? 04:56 What does he think of me? 04:57 It was all ministry moving outward and then receiving in as 05:02 the byproduct of giving out. 05:04 >>Right. 05:05 >>That's the definition of very good. 05:07 That's perfection. 05:08 And that's what was lost. 05:10 So we come to chapter three. 05:13 >>Just something I'll quickly throw in there. 05:14 And that is so perfection then is not the absence of a thing. 05:17 It's not just the absence of evil. 05:20 It's the presence of love in relational integrity. 05:22 I loved what you said the other day, so simple. 05:25 There were no hospitals and there were no police cars, or 05:27 policemen. 05:29 So that's--but it wasn't just the absence of a thing it was 05:32 the presence of this beautiful, relational harmonious picture. 05:36 >>Hey by the way do you guys know what Eden means? 05:38 E-D-E-N the word Eden? 05:41 >>Pleasure, yeah. 05:45 >>Pleasure. 05:46 I mean that's lost on the common reader, I think. 05:48 I don't think you just; oh it's a place, like Chicago. 05:51 But what does it mean? 05:53 The word means pleasure. 05:55 So God created the man and the woman and He put them in an 06:00 environment. 06:01 And what did God call the environment He put them in? 06:04 >>Mmm 06:05 >>Pleasure. 06:06 >>That's right. 06:07 >>I've made you and I've put you in the garden of pleasure. 06:10 >>That goes back to what we were saying earlier. 06:11 The purpose for God creating man was to know Him and to enjoy Him 06:16 forever. 06:17 >> [Everyone commenting at once] >>But in our world today it 06:20 seems like pleasure has been hijacked. 06:22 And when we think of pleasure lots of times it's, oh the P 06:26 word. 06:27 He said the P word. 06:29 You know, it's something that's often attached to shame and 06:31 other things when it was created by God. 06:34 >>Yeah, Yeah. 06:36 >>It reminds me of a bible verse I just wanted to look this up in 06:39 a different version here. 06:40 Psalm 16 and--I really like this Ipad--Psalm 16 and verse 11 it 06:47 says You will show me the path of life in your presence is 06:51 fullness of joy at your right hand are pleasures forevermore. 06:56 >>Yeah. 06:57 >>So pleasure--there's this idea as you said Jeffrey and it's 07:00 picked up in the bible in Hebrews for example it talks 07:03 about Moses who was Pharaoh. 07:04 He could have been Pharaoh in Egypt but he chose to suffer 07:07 with the affliction of his people rather than to enjoy the 07:11 pleasure of sin for a season. 07:13 I really like that because God created in the beginning He 07:17 created an environment that--that had us enjoying 07:20 pleasure forevermore. 07:22 >>Yeah. 07:24 >>In Hebrews the definition of the pleasure that the world has 07:26 to offer now post creation, post fall, is for a season. 07:32 It's fleeting. 07:33 It's seasonal. 07:34 It's temporary. 07:35 It's not. 07:36 >>Superficial. 07:37 >>It's superficial. 07:38 >>Is sin a parasite on God's original intent? 07:42 >>That's a great way to explain it. 07:43 >>Has the devil--has the fall of mankind hijacked the human 07:47 system and used it for illicit pleasures. 07:54 But there's nothing in and of itself that God made that is 07:57 bad. 07:59 I mean just look at what you are. 08:00 Look at what I am. 08:01 God created the man and the woman. 08:02 We have eyes to see things and he created a profusion of color 08:07 to surround them. 08:08 >>Let me give you an example of this that I think it's really 08:10 interesting when I first understood some of the 08:12 principles of the bible. 08:13 I learned about healthful eating and I remember when I was a 08:17 young boy I used to eat white bread and I can eat maybe even 08:21 half a loaf of that white bread. 08:22 I mean I could take one. 08:23 >>You could just make it into a ball couldn't you? 08:25 >>Make it into a ball and just pop it and pop it and pop it in. 08:27 I remember the first time I started eating. 08:29 >>You were a white bread junky. 08:30 >>Yes. 08:32 Whole wheat bread and I couldn't stand whole wheat bread. 08:34 I just didn't like it. 08:35 It was heavy. 08:36 It was thick. 08:37 It was just ugh. 08:38 And, by the way now, that's all I can eat. 08:39 I can't stand white bread so it's amazing how your taste buds 08:40 change. 08:42 But I remember eating a slice of whole wheat bread maybe two and 08:45 that was it. 08:51 I could not--I was full. 08:52 I was stuffed. 08:53 And it reminded me of the fact that the reason why I could only 08:54 eat a slice or two of whole wheat bread is because that 08:56 bread was filled with nutrient value. 08:57 It wasn't-it was not devoid of the things that you don't find 09:03 in the white. 09:04 It was filled with all of the nutrients my body needed. 09:06 So it satisfied me in a different way. 09:09 In other words, when you take pleasure out of the context in 09:12 which God created it. 09:14 Not only do you have it fleeting but you need more and more and 09:18 more. 09:19 >>Okay I got it. 09:20 I was like okay. 09:21 >>Yeah. 09:22 >>Alright I'm gonna stop eating white bread but where you're 09:24 going with this. 09:26 >>Pornography for example. 09:27 Pornography for example you see that as an epidemic in our 09:29 society today. 09:31 And it seems like that when you get hooked on it. 09:33 You just need more and more and more and more and more. 09:35 Now one of the greatest, I think, ways to heal that disease 09:39 >>Addiction. 09:43 >>An addiction is to find the way that God created us to have 09:47 that kind of sexual satisfaction. 09:49 >>Intimate pleasure. 09:50 >>Intimate pleasure in the context of marriage. 09:51 Commitment, long-term, the wholeness that satisfies and 09:57 doesn't have you craving for that which isn't satisfying but 10:01 for a moment. 10:02 >>Yeah 10:04 >>So what you're saying I love what you are saying there. 10:05 And it ties in directly with what Ty was just saying. 10:06 And that is that there is a parasitizing. 10:10 In other words, pornography is bad because it's a perversion of 10:14 what God made to be good. 10:15 >>Exactly. 10:17 >>In the beginning. 10:18 >>We talked about Song of Solomon. 10:21 >>Yeah everything else. 10:22 >>Everything else. 10:23 >>Where I was gonna go with that though--I began with the eyes. 10:26 But look at what you are. 10:28 Look at what I am. 10:29 You have eyes to see beautiful things. 10:30 You can use them to see bad things. 10:32 You have ears to hear good things. 10:33 You can use them to hear bad things. 10:34 You have a tongue to taste good flavors. 10:37 Think about this. 10:38 God's the one who engineered the human system in this way. 10:44 Right? 10:46 So you could say with total biblical accuracy that the human 10:50 being literally is an engineering marvel in the sense 10:54 that we are pleasure machines. 10:58 That's too--I don't like that word. 11:00 But we are-we are made, put it that way. 11:03 We are made to experience pleasure. 11:05 God created human beings putting them in the garden of pleasure. 11:10 When we come to the fall of mankind what we're dealing with 11:14 is everything that God made good, good, good, good, good, 11:17 very good being hijacked and turned. 11:20 >>Perverted. 11:22 >>Perverted, that's a great word--to evil purposes--to wrong 11:25 purposes. 11:27 And then I love the point you're making James, then there's no 11:29 real sustained satisfaction. 11:31 >>Right. 11:32 >>It's short, it's transitory. 11:33 It's like a fix. 11:34 >>Yes. 11:35 >>It's like you take in a short little burst of 11:37 self-centeredness pleasure. 11:39 But you're not experiencing the long term sustained pleasure of 11:41 other centered love. 11:45 >>I've just got to throw in here what might be my very favorite 11:48 C.S. 11:51 Lewis quote and he essentially says that there's no such thing 11:55 as pleasure without the fulfillment of that pleasure. 11:57 And then he gives several examples. 11:59 He says you know a duckling wants to swim. 12:00 Well there is such a thing as water. 12:02 And a baby is hungry. 12:03 There is such a thing as food. 12:04 And men and women want sexual desire. 12:07 Well there's such a thing as sex. 12:08 He says but if I find within myself a desire which no 12:11 experience in this world can satisfy. 12:14 The most probable explanation is that I was made for another 12:18 world. 12:20 So what we have is--is that there's--that's what you're 12:23 saying, you know. 12:24 We have eyes. 12:25 There's beauty. 12:26 We have a nose. 12:27 There's beautiful smells. 12:28 We have a mouth. 12:29 There's beautiful tastes. 12:30 But even so because we're in this fallen state there is 12:31 something for which we long that no earthly experience. 12:36 Even the best and most Godly of earthly experiences can quite 12:40 sat--we sense that we are cut off from the umbilical cord of 12:45 Eden. 12:46 Something is missing. 12:48 >>Yeah, yeah. 12:49 >>I love that. 12:50 >>Another thing that I think that's really powerful is the 12:52 idea that God created us for pleasure and the ultimate 12:56 pleasure that God created us for is the pleasure of selflessness 13:01 or other centeredness. 13:03 >>That's the point. 13:05 >>The pleasure of giving and doing for others. 13:07 So I find myself doing things in relationship to God's will that 13:12 I never would've considered a pleasure before. 13:13 And some people looking on can be thanking me for doing 13:15 something that I consider a pleasure. 13:17 Thank you for pleasure. 13:18 Thank you for--I find myself. 13:21 >>You're not just saying this. 13:22 >>Yes. 13:23 >>It's not just a cultural nicety. 13:24 You mean it. 13:25 >>Yeah. 13:26 >It was a pleasure. 13:27 >>Like labor for example. 13:28 God created us for labor. 13:29 And in this world today there's a lot of idea that, well, labor 13:32 is something you gotta get out of the away. 13:33 You gotta do so that you can make so you can get so you can 13:37 retire. 13:38 But in my thinking I don't understand. 13:40 I can't relate to that as much because God has been 13:42 re-educating-the bible kind of re-educates. 13:44 And you go in this direction I think is identic. 13:47 I think it's pleasurable. 13:49 You go in this direction where you gain pleasure out of labor. 13:53 >>Being productive. 13:54 >>Yeah. 13:55 >>It's the white bread and the wheat bread. 13:56 >>It's so powerful when you're doing what God created you to 13:59 do. 14:00 I think it becomes difficult when you're not. 14:01 >>Can I and maybe this isn't the direction that we want to go 14:05 here. 14:06 But for me I think it would be extremely helpful for this 14:08 conversation to provide sort of a basis and also for those that 14:10 are listening in to go back to the Genesis 3 account. 14:12 And to say ok well if that's what God created and it was very 14:16 good then how, specifically, did we get here? 14:19 >>Yeah. 14:20 >>How did we get to the white bread? 14:21 >>Let's break it down. 14:24 Let's go to Genesis 3. 14:25 Would you guys be comfortable if we just begin by just reading 14:27 the whole passage and then backing it up and breaking it 14:32 down? 14:33 It's a long passage that's why I'm asking. 14:34 >>Let's do it. 14:35 >>It's a long passage but. 14:36 >>Let's read through it together. 14:38 >>But if we just move through it then we'll have the ground work 14:40 before us and. 14:41 >>We can see where it's going. 14:43 >>Minutes left in this segment of the conversation. 14:45 Then we'll just get through it and then we'll come back and 14:47 break it down. 14:48 Starting with verse 1 in Genesis chapter 3 now the serpent was 14:52 more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had 14:55 made. 14:56 And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not 15:00 eat of every tree of the garden'?" 15:03 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit 15:07 of the trees of the garden; verse 3 but of the fruit of the 15:10 tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You 15:12 shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 15:16 Somebody else want to pick up there? 15:17 >>Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 15:22 Verse 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes 15:25 will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and 15:28 evil." 15:29 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that 15:32 it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one 15:35 wise, she took of its fruit and ate. 15:37 She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 15:41 >>Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that 15:45 they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made 15:49 themselves coverings. 15:52 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden 15:55 in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from 15:59 the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 16:03 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are 16:07 you?" 16:08 >>I think down to verse 12 David. 16:10 >>Sure, sure so he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, 16:12 and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself." 16:15 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? 16:17 Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you 16:20 should not eat?" 16:21 >>So, so this is an account of the fall of humanity the fall of 16:27 mankind. 16:28 The passage is so full of significance that we need to 16:35 just break it down point by point. 16:36 >>Slowly. 16:37 >>Yeah I want to just begin with verse 1 and calling attention to 16:42 something that we don't often consider. 16:45 When we think of the fall of mankind we think of quote, 16:47 unquote the sin problem. 16:49 We rush right to behavioral dimension of the problem 16:53 usually. 16:54 Sin is transgression of the law. 16:57 And indeed it is. 16:58 First John 3:4 we speak of sin in terms of rebellion against 17:03 God. 17:04 We look at the act. 17:05 They partook of the forbidden fruit. 17:07 Back in verse 1 we need to get the backstory. 17:10 The backstory is that before the act of disobedience--the act of 17:14 sin is engaged in something is occurring in a conversation. 17:19 There's a conversation occurring between the serpent. 17:23 >>There's another voice. 17:24 >>Yeah there's another voice. 17:26 And Jeffrey that voice is introducing new ideas. 17:30 >>Mhm. 17:32 >>New perceptions, new concepts. 17:33 And the new perceptions and ideas that are being introduced 17:37 are ideas and perceptions specifically about God. 17:41 That's the subject. 17:42 >>It's in a question form. 17:44 >>Yeah. 17:45 >>Did God really say? 17:46 >>Yeah, yeah. 17:47 >>It's insinuating questioning. 17:50 It's questioning the character of God. 17:53 >>Okay we gotta take our break now. 17:56 Um and we're gonna have this great--the great story of a guy 18:00 that James and I had the privilege of meeting in Africa 18:04 named David. 18:05 And uh David's story is amazing so let's just. 18:07 Let's just take in David's story and we'll come right back and 18:12 continue in Genesis 3. 18:13 After I started drinking beers and womanizing my life was at 18:24 stake. 18:25 In fact my marriage was shaking every day. 18:30 I could go fight with my wife quarrelling every day. 18:37 Kids would cry, you know grab my trousers. 18:39 Don't beat my mother. 18:41 Don't beat our mother. 18:43 What has she done? 18:45 I continued drinking and to me ok that looks to be more of good 18:51 life. 18:53 I thought I was on top of the world. 18:56 But not realizing that I was losing a lot. 19:00 I was not satisfied with one girl. 19:06 I go to this one. 19:07 Tomorrow I go to another one. 19:09 I thought womanizing with a different woman I would become a 19:13 champion. 19:15 But I never became one. 19:16 I wanted to satisfy myself but then I was failing. 19:19 I want to empty myself. 19:21 I was not being fulfilled. 19:24 My wife before actually knowing Jesus because she was also 19:33 getting annoyed, you know of what I was doing. 19:35 But then after some time, after reading the discovery guides. 19:39 And then some church members used to approach her, give her 19:43 some literature to read. 19:45 But then I could see her change you know. 19:50 I used to be very rough. 19:53 But then she was asking politely, sometimes just crying. 19:59 Then I know she was, there was something. Why is she changing 20:05 so suddenly? Then I could go into the house, find these 20:10 discovery guides, grab one go into the bedroom read. 20:14 Oh yeah I think that's why she's changing. 20:17 >>It was these bible study guides that made the difference 20:25 in the lives of people like David. 20:26 The simple process of reading and believing the truth of God's 20:31 word was enough to shine a light in their dark time and lead them 20:34 to Christ. 20:36 >>After some time, you know, I started reading some discovery 20:41 guides. 20:42 Now after reading those I bought a bible, actually and started 20:45 comparing what was in the discovery guides of what was in 20:49 the Bible. 20:50 Continued reading the discovery guides, stopped the womanizing. 20:54 Like I said earlier on stopped women now. 20:57 Stopped moving with my friends. 21:02 Stopped the drinking. 21:06 Now after reading these [unintelligable] I got convinced 21:09 that I at least I have also to join. 21:12 Am now ready to be baptized as well. 21:16 I'm happy [unintelligable] discover Jesus through these 21:22 discovery guides. 21:23 It's good that the Lord has entered into my heart. 21:27 Right now satisfaction in the Lord a whole new life to let go. 21:32 I rather hold onto Jesus and see that my life is completely 21:39 changed. 21:47 >>To partner with Light Bearers in spreading the gospel visit us 21:49 online at lifbearers.org. 21:52 Or call us toll free at 1-877-585-1111. 21:57 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 22:02 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 22:04 >>David's story is incredible. 22:09 Like I said before the break. 22:11 >>Amen. 22:12 >>James and I actually had the privilege of meeting him when we 22:15 were in Africa and he's been dramatically impacted by the 22:18 ministry of Light Bearers. 22:21 But here's the thing in his story. 22:23 He really is an illustration as all of us are of what the fall 22:29 entails and what redemption looks like. 22:33 I mean this guy was basically just chugging down the pleasures 22:37 of the world, taking in whatever he could grab and gulp that the 22:42 world has to offer. 22:44 And what did he say? 22:47 He says I was just empty. 22:48 It wasn't going anywhere and I just--and and he became abusive 22:49 to his wife. 22:50 And then he encountered the beautiful concepts of the 22:54 gospel, the good news of the grace of God. 22:57 And it began to change him in his thinking, his feeling and 23:02 then his relationships. 23:03 This guy is now experiencing a steady long term kind of 23:08 pleasure. 23:09 >>Yeah. 23:10 >>That involves one relationship with one woman, namely his wife, 23:12 praise God. 23:13 That he is totally devoted to and now his children are 23:16 beginning to respect him again. 23:18 This guy's experiencing the real kind of pleasure. 23:21 >>It's the white bread the wheat bread. 23:23 >>Yes the white bread wheat bread exactly. 23:25 >>You know it's funny when you said there just an interesting 23:28 little thing. 23:30 When you said David story was amazing I had forgotten about 23:32 the clip and the--his name is David too and I was like yeah. 23:35 It's true because every David story is amazing. 23:38 Every Jeffrey story every Mary story. 23:41 Every story is an amazing story. 23:43 Every story of redemption and in a sense everyone's story. 23:47 Everyone who comes to faith is a story of the fall and of 23:50 redemption. 23:51 And even those who don't come to faith their story is the story 23:54 of the fall. 23:55 >>Yes. 23:58 >>It's this--this is the corporate story of humanity, 24:01 lack of trust and a lack of love for God. 24:03 >>And that's what we get here in Genesis chapter 3. 24:06 We get behind the scenes, not just the actions, as we all have 24:11 identified them in the transgression of the law. 24:13 But we get the subtle psychology that was brought up in the mind 24:18 and heart of Eve and then of Adam in relation to God. 24:22 In relation to the kind of God the character of God that 24:25 created them. 24:27 That they were having fellowship with--that they were having 24:29 relationship with. 24:30 And those questions that were put in their mind is what led to 24:32 the actions. 24:34 >>Yeah the devil didn't just come in the garden and say 24:36 listen. 24:37 >>Eat this. 24:38 >>Yeah he didn't just say eat this, perform this act. 24:39 She would have said no thank you. 24:41 >>And he didn't have like a label on his forehead that said 24:43 hi I'm the devil. 24:44 >>And I'm on a collision course with self-destruction would you 24:46 join me. 24:48 >>It was a subtle voice. 24:50 >>Yeah so he comes and the first line says the serpent was more 24:52 cunning. 24:53 The old King James says subtle. 24:55 So he approaches with cunning with subtlety another way to say 24:59 this is Satan approaches human beings with an intent to 25:02 deceive. 25:04 He wants to skew and distort their perception. 25:08 And God is, as we're about to see, the subject or the target I 25:13 guess would be a better word of this distortion campaign. 25:17 This propaganda campaign. 25:19 >>NIV says crafty. 25:20 >>Oh that's good. 25:21 >>It's crafty yeah. 25:22 >>Yeah, so--so what is the subject matter of the deception 25:27 God--well what does he say about God that is untrue? 25:30 >>In verse 4 and the serpent says to the woman you will not 25:36 surely die. 25:38 So off the bat right their it's already. 25:41 >>That's not off the bat yet though bro. 25:43 >>You've just. 25:44 >>That's not off the bat you skipped the bat. 25:46 >>Yeah I would say that when he says has God indeed said you 25:50 shall not eat of every tree of the garden. 25:52 The suggesting here is that God is somehow restrictive. 25:55 In other words when you go back and read Genesis chapter 2 God 25:59 says of every tree of the garden you may freely eat. 26:02 >>Large horizon of freedom. 26:04 >>Yeah just a small bit of restriction. 26:05 >>Yeah only for their good. 26:08 >>But the way that--yeah that's right--it was a positive helpful 26:10 restriction. 26:11 But the way that Satan. 26:13 >>It was a protection. 26:14 >>Protection. 26:15 >>It was a protection. 26:17 >>But just the way--the subtlety with which the serpent, Satan, 26:19 the enemy and we'll talk about him because he just sort of 26:22 shows up in the story. 26:24 And we've not talked about who or what he is. 26:26 We're gonna have to get to that. 26:28 But not right now. 26:30 He suggests that there's this vast swath of restriction with 26:31 just a limited amount of freedom. 26:32 I mean there's a subtle--and he also suggests that God is 26:35 somehow unclear that his word is not clear. 26:37 That there's 26:38 >>Yeah, yeah. 26:39 >>Equivocation. 26:40 >>Yeah that's something between the lines. 26:42 >>Yeah. 26:43 >>He's implying something. 26:44 What's the word an insinuation? 26:45 If you were to say to somebody who is a friend of yours. 26:49 Hey is your husband really faithful? 26:54 >>Exactly. 26:57 >>Are you sure that he's not? 26:59 You're not blatantly telling the lie right now. 27:00 >>You're planting the seed. 27:01 >>You're planting the seed and you're saying---you're 27:04 suggesting that something may be wrong. 27:06 >>Now the woman seems to sense immediately, intuitively no 27:10 that's not quite right. 27:12 >>She tries to recover. 27:13 >>She recovers. 27:15 >>We can eat of the tree. 27:17 We can. 27:18 We can. 27:19 God said we can eat of every tree. 27:20 What do you mean? 27:21 >>But she actually goes a little too far. 27:22 She says God has said you shall not eat it neither shall you 27:23 touch it lest you die. 27:25 And God had not said the thing about the touching. 27:27 She seems to be adding this just sort of overcorrect or over 27:30 compensate. 27:31 >>She's insecure. 27:32 >>What's interesting here is she's taking an apologetic 27:34 attitude. 27:35 She's defending God's character. 27:36 She's defending him against this insinuation. 27:37 No he says we can eat of every tree. 27:40 Just one we can't. 27:41 >>But the mild destabilization that's taken place 27:44 psychologically with her where she's now coming to the defense. 27:48 Satan capitalizes on and now he comes rather that subtlety just 27:50 a direct confrontal. 27:52 And that's where you were going with verse 4. 27:54 No, no, no. 27:55 Because she said we'll die. 27:56 And he says you will not surely die. 27:58 >>Yeah, yeah. 28:00 >>So subtlety has now transitioned to just an 28:02 outright--now that destabilization. 28:03 We can just imagine something that's teetering. 28:05 And now he gives it that further push. 28:06 Still and basically the suggestion here it's not even a 28:08 suggestion. 28:09 The accusation here is God is dishonest. 28:12 >>Yeah verse 4 is where it really comes clear. 28:15 I mean it's crystal clear. 28:16 It's like pppp. 28:18 >>Yeah he's. 28:20 >>God has lied to you. 28:21 He is deceiving--he is withholding something. 28:22 >>But he's deceiving for a reason. 28:23 God has a motive. 28:24 Satan is getting into God's character here. 28:26 God's up to something and I'm about to tell you what it is 28:30 he's saying to her. 28:32 And that's verse 5. 28:33 >>Yeah. 28:34 >>God knows that if you eat. 28:36 >>That's the part where I think he's suggesting that God is 28:38 restrictive. 28:39 >>Both. 28:41 >>God is trying to. 28:42 >>It's a continuum. 28:43 >>He's trying to limit you from an experience. 28:45 >>Of course. 28:46 >>Yeah. 28:47 >>Of course but let's even the way that that early question is 28:49 put. 28:50 >>Yeah it does imply. 28:51 >>It just plants the seed. 28:52 Now God is dishonest and here's why. 28:54 In other words it's not a one part. 28:56 It's not even a two part. 28:59 It's like a tripod deception. 29:00 You destabilize. 29:02 You confront and then you insinuate the reason. 29:03 You implant the reason as to why it is. 29:06 >>Jeffrey look at it this way he's basically saying, you know, 29:09 prong one of this lie. 29:11 God is unnecessarily restrictive. 29:13 Prong two He's lied to you about this. 29:17 You're not gonna die if you eat. 29:20 Prong three the whole reason God is lying to you is because he's 29:25 trying to hold back from you something that really would be 29:28 for your greater pleasure and good or whatever. 29:31 God is essentially--here's the bottom line--self-serving. 29:33 You've been under the impression that God loves you. 29:35 I'm telling you he doesn't. 29:37 And here the devil is literally denying the existence of love as 29:41 the premise for the relationship and saying listen, insinuating 29:47 you to basically look out for number one because you think God 29:50 is out for you. 29:51 No God's out for himself. 29:52 God is selfish. 29:53 He is attacking the very foundation of reality. 29:58 >>He's attacking the thing that we've talked about in our first 30:03 conversation, our second conversation and our third 30:05 conversation that God is love, that God is relational, that God 30:07 is good. 30:08 And here this is a direct frontal attack. 30:10 >>Right. 30:11 >>Now let me--maybe I could just pause here for a moment. 30:15 And throw this out there. 30:16 We're talking about something that happened thousands of years 30:18 ago, an actual event. 30:19 But in a way every one of us at this table has operated under 30:23 and believed these very same kind of deceptions. 30:27 >>Yep. 30:28 >>Yeah. 30:29 >>We're naturally wired with suspicion, suspicion towards 30:31 God. 30:32 We're naturally suspicious of God. 30:34 >>So let me just speak to--from my own experience and I'm, you 30:37 know I think we should hear everybody's here but just mine, 30:39 very briefly is that I became a believer in Christ when I was 24 30:43 years old, right. 30:45 Uh, prior to my coming to faith in Christ I was a purple haired, 30:50 tattooed, punk rocker, skateboarder. 30:53 That was my life. 30:55 And if and when and it did happen occasionally, people 30:59 would come and speak to me about God or speak to me about 31:00 anything religious or anything biblical my knee jerk reaction. 31:03 My instinctive reaction was always too restrictive, too 31:06 restrictive; no I wanna do my own thing. 31:09 I don't need some God telling me what to do. 31:11 I'm free to be my own man right. 31:14 It was not probably an outright atheism but it was agnosticism 31:17 that leaned toward and atheism. 31:19 Because I wanted freedom. 31:21 Everybody wants freedom. 31:22 So my basic view of God as a purple haired, punk rock, 31:26 skateboarder was that God is restrictive and if there were 31:29 such a being ad God he would only want to take something from 31:33 me that I wanted to keep and would be in my own best interest 31:35 to keep. 31:37 >>Yeah isn't that something? 31:38 >>But I mean how. 31:39 [Everyone talking at once] 31:40 >>That's the line right here. 31:42 >>Yeah we're in, you are, I am, all of us are a product of the 31:46 fall. 31:47 We've been infected with a primal lie. 31:49 And it's there. 31:51 It's in our thinking. 31:53 When we look, for example at anything--anything that God 31:57 says, for example and we perceive it as God's effort to 32:02 restrict my freedom. 32:03 We're wrong. 32:05 I have this verse that's just been ringing in my own personal 32:08 experience that I just think is fabulous in Psalm 119 verse 32. 32:13 Here is an inspired perception of the law of God. 32:18 Now we're not talking specifically about the law of 32:20 God. 32:21 But we're talking about the fact that God said to Adam and Eve 32:22 you can do this but don't do this, right. 32:27 So what's up with the things God says don't do? 32:29 Is he a micromanaging control freak? 32:32 Is he trying to restrict my freedom? 32:40 Look at this Psalm 19 verse 32 David says I will run in the 32:42 course of your commandments for you shall enlarge my heart. 32:45 And the NIV renders enlarge my heart for you have set my heart 32:50 free. 32:51 >>Wow 32:52 >>Okay so you've got here this idea, get this. 32:55 I will run. 32:58 You got the word run. 32:59 Question guys do you need space to run? 33:01 >>Yes. 33:02 >>Can you run in your bedroom? 33:03 I don't know how big your bedroom is. 33:05 Actually I know how big all of your bedrooms. 33:08 [Laughter] 33:09 >>Your bedroom you know is a small space. 33:10 You can't work up a--you can't work up any momentum. 33:13 You can't run for wall to wall. 33:14 So there needs to be space. 33:16 David says when I look at God's law I see space to run. 33:19 I see a large horizon. 33:22 And he says God has set my heart free. 33:27 He has enlarged my heart. 33:28 >>That goes perfectly with this here in James 2 verse 12. 33:34 The law of liberty. 33:39 >>Right. 33:40 >>Yes. 33:41 >>Of the law of liberty so anytime God introduces some 33:42 parameters within which we have--we should be living our 33:45 lives. 33:46 It's because it's only within those parameters that we're 33:47 free. 33:49 The minute we violate those parameters we become enslaved to 33:53 something. 33:54 >>Outside of God's realm. 33:56 >>I really like this too because, because it does seem 33:59 to, to match and parallel the present perception of religion. 34:04 Religion generally, I was raised in a religious home. 34:08 I was raised going to church every 34:10 >>Catholic home 34:11 >>Yep every week altar boy said my prayers every night. 34:13 And in that context I really wasn't interested in religion. 34:17 Religion was restrictive religion was all about the 34:20 different forms and things I was supposed to do especially during 34:22 lent or at Easter or Christmas I needed to go here. 34:25 I needed to do that. 34:26 I needed to act in a certain way. 34:28 And outside of those parameters I found fun. 34:30 I found joy. 34:31 I found pleasure. 34:32 And inside of those parameters I found to be very boring and very 34:35 restrictive. 34:36 >>Isn't that something? 34:39 >>Yeah very different from the way my natural heart seemed to 34:41 tend. 34:42 When I actually got to the place, and I was 21 years old 34:44 when I accepted Christ as my personal savior. 34:46 And I thought it was because of the fact, well, we're gonna talk 34:49 about this some more but the outcome that I was experiencing 34:52 in my life doing my own thing was very much like the outcome 34:56 that Adam and Eve experienced in their life. 34:59 And that led me to try another option. 35:01 And when I tried the other option and I actually talked to 35:04 God, accepted Christ and asked him to come into my life, I 35:10 found myself being set free, having that space to actually 35:12 run away from things that had imprisoned me. 35:15 >>You were deceived. 35:18 You were deceived. 35:19 What you said and what Jeffrey said and what you said are so 35:22 spot on because they--we in the world we have what we think is 35:24 freedom but it's really not it's slavery. 35:27 And in Christianity people have what you think is restriction 35:30 it's really freedom. 35:32 It's a complete reversal of what's expected. 35:39 >>Which is exactly what he says here? 35:40 >>In my experience I actually went through this where, where I 35:42 grew up with no religion at all. 35:43 You know I don't think--nobody raised me I just kind of 35:45 happened. 35:47 I mean I was raised in a home with no father, an abusive 35:50 step-father and a mom that had to work long hours and just was 35:53 completely caught up in her own abuse. 35:56 I was just out on the streets and for me as a kid growing up 36:00 as I came right there into 11, 12 into my teenager. 36:04 I was just hyperaware of and attracted to girls. 36:13 And that's no surprise. 36:14 >>That's not unusual. 36:15 >>All I--girls, girls, girls, that's all I was aware of. 36:18 And here's the thing I went through one broken relationship 36:21 after another at a very young age. 36:25 You know, I like you. 36:26 Do you like me? 36:27 Oh we're boyfriend and girlfriend. 36:28 Breakup. 36:29 >>Mhm. 36:30 >>Now it's on to her. 36:32 It's on to her. 36:33 It's on to her. 36:34 And then I met one girl and we became friends then boyfriend 36:40 and girlfriend. 36:42 And we've had this sustained relationship now for years and 36:44 years and years. 36:45 Now in my experience I look back at those, those, that series of 36:51 broken relationships and all of my friends and the world in 36:56 general operates that way. 36:58 You just move from relationship to relationship to relationship 37:01 and there is a short term pleasure that's involved 37:06 especially on the sexual level. 37:08 But here's the thing you're actually short circuiting and 37:11 narrowing your capacity for pleasure by moving from one 37:16 self-serving and self-centered relationship after another. 37:19 And when you settle into and move into one relationship with 37:23 one person for life, I'm saying basically God says one person 37:27 for life. 37:30 Is that restrictive or is that as the Psalm says enlarge your 37:33 heart. 37:34 >>It's both its restrictive in the positive sense. 37:36 >>In a positive sense because that grows your capacity for 37:39 trust, for security, for reaching levels and dimensions 37:45 of pleasure that you would never know in serial dating 37:49 situations. 37:50 >>You want love to be--I want my wife to think that our love is 37:54 restrictive. 37:56 It's to our benefit that we view love as restrictive isn't it? 38:00 >>It's restrictive in what Ty's saying and I know you know this 38:03 in the broad sense. 38:04 In other words it's one woman but now that you have the one 38:07 relationship there's a depth that you can--that you can 38:11 achieve--that you cannot achieve in one, serial dating as you 38:16 called it. 38:17 >>That was so interesting because that's the very thing 38:18 we're picking up here in Genesis, in Genesis 3 we're 38:21 picking up this little restriction that Satan's trying 38:23 to magnify. 38:24 >>Yeah. 38:25 >>And then this huge liberty that Satan's trying to diminish. 38:27 >On that, on that tell me what you think of this. 38:31 This might be amazing. 38:32 [Laughter] 38:33 >>You just set yourself up bro. 38:35 You just set yourself up. 38:37 >>What you just said inspired me. 38:40 >>It better be amazing. 38:41 >>Originally in the garden there's one tree that has a 38:45 restr-stay away, off limit label. 38:50 And every other tree is game on. 38:51 The minute they take of the fruit reality changes and now 38:57 look at the world we live in today. 38:59 Most of the stuff we see in the world is things that's totally 39:03 opposed to God's will. 39:05 So we have a lot of trees in the garden. 39:06 But most of the trees are off limits. 39:09 And the very few are, the very few things that we see in the 39:14 world that represent or mirror God's will. 39:16 So what I'm saying is originally one bad tree many good trees. 39:22 Now it's many help me out. 39:25 >>Bad trees. 39:27 >>Many bad trees. 39:28 >>And only one good tree is that brilliant? 39:29 >>No no it's many bad trees. 39:31 >>And one--few good. 39:33 It's been flipped. 39:34 So the Devil said God's original plan is restrictive. 39:37 But what has happened now as the devils plan has been introduced 39:42 and accepted into the world now. 39:44 >>Okay. 39:45 >>It's restrictive. 39:46 >>That is that is good stuff. 39:47 I don't know about amazing. 39:48 I don't know about brilliant. 39:50 But that is good I love it I love. 39:51 >>Sandbagged yourself. 39:52 >>And I hate to do this. 39:53 I hate to do this but we have to take a break. 39:54 >>Okay. 39:55 >>And when we come right back. 39:56 >>It's a good note to close on. 39:57 >>Yeah, yeah it's an amazing note to close on. 39:59 Then we'll come right back and pursuing. 40:01 >>A light in Zambia is a moving video documentary that traces 40:13 the stories of five amazing African men and women who 40:16 encountered Christ through the powerful media of gospel 40:19 literature. 40:20 To receive your free copy call 1-877-585-1111. 40:25 Or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 40:31 97438. 40:33 Once again to receive your free copy of A Light in Zambia call 40:38 1-877-585-1111. 40:41 Or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 40:46 97438. 40:49 Simply ask for the Zambia DVD. 41:03 >>Okay so we're breaking down Genesis chapter 3 and we've 41:06 gotten through about verse 5. 41:08 It's in verse 6 that the act of sin is committed. 41:11 And my point earlier and I think you guys concur with this do you 41:17 see any holes in it is that the sin problem is a composite of 41:20 issues. 41:21 It's not sufficient just to say that they broke God's command 41:25 behaviorally bef--all the way through verse 5 things are going 41:30 on in the psyche, in the thinking, in the feeling process 41:35 toward God. 41:36 So what's happening here is that the sin problem behaviorally is 41:39 predicated on the sin problem beginning in the mind. 41:44 >>Psychologically. 41:45 >>Psychologically deception regarding the character of God. 41:49 I mean why commit the act of rebellion if you haven't changed 41:52 your mind about the person you're sinning against. 41:55 >>Yeah. 41:56 >>Right. 41:58 >>I think that that is a critical nuance that's often 41:59 missed when just the behavioral aspect is emphasized. 42:01 The behavior doesn't happen until a new and perverse and 42:07 inaccurate picture of God's character has been implanted 42:10 into the mind. 42:11 And now it's okay to violate a relationship with that being. 42:15 Because that being is not being trust worthy. 42:17 >>Yeah, it's it's, it's further reaching in fact when you 42:20 look--when you look at verse 5 think about this For God knows 42:22 the day you eat of it your eyes will be open and you will be 42:26 like God. 42:27 Why do you need God if you can be like God? 42:28 Why do we need God in a society we can take care of all the 42:33 things we need to take care of because we can be just like him. 42:35 If this restriction is taken away. 42:38 If we were not limited by this whole idea of religion and God 42:42 and someone that's bigger than us and we can just recognize 42:45 that, you know. 42:47 We can, we can be just like him. 42:48 We don't need him. 42:49 >>We can be our own God. 42:50 >>Yeah and that's what we see in society. 42:51 >>I love what C.S. 42:52 Lewis said I think in problem of pain. 42:54 He said they wanted a corner in the universe where they can say 42:56 to God this is our business. 42:58 You stay out of it. 43:00 And then he says they wanted to be nouns. 43:02 But they would forever have to be adjectives or something like 43:06 that. 43:07 >>Hmm 43:08 >>Which is powerful so I think what I see here we're talking 43:09 about the psychology beyond individual action is that there 43:13 is a desire for independence. 43:14 Isn't there. 43:16 So you're basically saying is there's the craving in the human 43:19 heart for independence. 43:21 >>Mhm. 43:23 >>For my little corner in the universe where this--God has no 43:26 business. 43:27 >>Something deception is Jeffrey is it's I want independence from 43:30 a controlling, domineering God. 43:34 >>Right. 43:36 >>You see that? 43:37 >>Mhm. 43:38 >>It's I want independence from a misconception. 43:41 >>Right. 43:42 >>Mhm. 43:43 >>So if God was known to be the God that God really is. 43:44 A God of liberty and freedom then the idea wouldn't even 43:50 arise in the human heart that I want independence. 43:52 Because you're not even thinking in terms of independence or me 43:56 and you segregated. 43:58 You want something from me that I'm not willing to give but 44:01 you're extracting it from me. 44:02 That's a part of the lie. 44:03 >>You wouldn't desire independence unless you felt 44:06 that that was being threatened. 44:08 Is basically what you're saying. 44:10 So in a--with a correct concept of who God is there would be 44:13 no--no desire for that type of. 44:16 >>Right and you know why one of the reasons why if you read 44:19 about this the whole fall of man in Hebrews 2 you recognize that 44:22 when God created us when he created the world. 44:25 He gave it to us. 44:26 He put everything in subjection to us. 44:28 So God actually gave us independence. 44:31 >>Oh that's good. 44:32 >>He came to visit, how are things going? 44:35 How way your day? 44:36 How is it going down her on earth? 44:37 How are all the things that I have given you? 44:38 And we have this freedom that was just outstanding. 44:41 I mean it was amazing when you think about it. 44:43 And yet verse 8 says in Hebrews 2 you put all things in 44:48 subjection under his feet in that you put all things under 44:50 him. 44:51 You left nothing that was not put under him. 44:53 But now we do not see things all things put under him. 44:55 So what's happened is Satan has come in and he's taken away all 44:58 that independence. 44:59 He's taken away all that liberty that God actually gave us and he 45:01 did that by misrepresenting who God was. 45:03 >>Yeah, yes. 45:05 >>It's very I love what you're saying there because if you 45:08 genuinely try. 45:09 You have a teenage son. 45:11 >>No I don't. 45:12 >>No he's not teenage anymore. 45:13 >>He's 20. 45:14 >>He's 20 ok. 45:15 So your 20 year old son or those of us. 45:17 >>Teenage girl. 45:18 >>I have a 10 and a 12. 45:19 But when your teenage son comes and asks for the car keys that 45:20 requires freedom. 45:22 Right. 45:23 But if you trust them they amount of freedom that you'll 45:27 give them is limitless. 45:28 >>Yes exactly. 45:29 >>So trust and freedom go hand in hand. 45:30 God says hey I trust you. 45:32 Oh this garden this is--go, go. 45:34 >>Yeah, yeah Psalm 115 says the heavens even the whole heavens 45:39 belong to the Lord. 45:40 But the earth h has given to the children of men. 45:42 That's delegation language. 45:45 >>That's our place. 45:46 [Everyone talking at once] 45:47 >>Psalm 115 and so basically God is saying I don't want a 45:50 micromanaging, domineering control over you. 45:55 I'm giving you freedom. 45:56 But the expectation is that that freedom will be used to the 46:01 healthy end expanding liberty for others. 46:07 And the sin problem shuts down liberty. 46:08 I think that's what we're saying. 46:10 The sin problem restricts freedom really. 46:12 It doesn't expand freedom. 46:16 When she eats of the fruit immediately in verse 6 the 46:17 effect that follows verse 7 their eyes were opened. 46:20 The eyes of them both, Adam and Eve, were opened. 46:23 And they knew that they were naked. 46:25 So they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves 46:28 covering. 46:30 So what's happening there? 46:32 The immediate effect that was promised in verse 5 doesn't 46:34 happen. 46:36 What happens is all the sudden a whole new psychological and 46:39 spiritual phenomenon enters in to the equation. 46:43 Suddenly they're experiencing guilt, and shame and 46:45 self-consciousness. 46:47 The language, the eyes of them both were opened and they knew 46:49 that they were naked is referring back; it's modifying 46:52 what was said earlier. 46:54 Where is it? 46:55 >>Genesis 2:25 46:56 >>2:25 they were naked and not ashamed. 46:58 So it's not like they became naked. 47:01 They were already naked, right? 47:03 And then. 47:04 >>The shame is associated with it. 47:06 >>Yeah now they don't trust God anymore. 47:08 Now they're in rebellion, in sin. 47:09 And all of the sudden self-consciousness. 47:14 Now I see that I'm naked which is a biblical way of saying they 47:16 began to experience self-centeredness and the guilt 47:20 that is associated with self-centeredness. 47:23 >>God then comes into the Garden of Eden because it says in verse 47:27 8 they heard the sound. 47:28 Have we gotten to verse? 47:29 >>Well we read verse 7 that they made coverings. 47:32 >>Made coverings. 47:33 So verse 8 here's where I was going. 47:35 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the 47:37 cool of the day and Adam and his wife hid themselves. 47:39 So clearly there's a fear dimension here. 47:40 >>Yeah. 47:41 >>So, so they have the experience of shame. 47:43 They're now suddenly self-aware in a way that has a guilt 47:48 associated with it. 47:49 They then assume, incorrectly that the shame that they're 47:54 feeling is actually a reflection of God's attitude toward them 47:57 and they're afraid. 47:59 So their instinct is to flee from the very one that made them 48:04 created them and had actually entrusted the garden to them. 48:05 >>Somewhere in the bible I think it's in Proverbs it says the 48:08 wicked flee when no one pursues. 48:10 >>I think part of this is because their situation is in 48:14 context of what God had said to them in Genesis 2. 48:17 In the day that you eat of that tree of the fruit of knowledge 48:21 of good and evil you are going to die. 48:22 And they didn't die. 48:25 I mean the serpent said you won't die. 48:27 God said you will die. 48:28 They ate the fruit and they didn't die. 48:30 So, so I can imagine that they're thinking well if the 48:34 fruit didn't kill us God certainly is or will. 48:36 >>Oh that's a powerful point. 48:39 >>You see what I'm saying? 48:40 So they're thinking, oh, there is a promise that God has made 48:45 here toward us and the serpent was probably right. 48:47 Their experience is telling them that the serpent was right the 48:50 fruit didn't kill us. 48:52 >>I got to jump in there though and Say God had not said, and I 48:55 know this is not what you're saying. 48:57 But this just goes to show how the deception worked. 49:00 God didn't say in the day that you eat thereof I will surely 49:02 kill you. 49:03 >>Exactly. 49:04 >>He said the day you eat thereof 49:05 >>Exactly you will surely die. 49:06 >>I know I get it but the deception is they think he's out 49:09 to get us. 49:10 >>Yes. 49:11 >>So they--the feelings of shame and guilt that they're 49:13 experiencing they incorrectly assume are a reflection of God's 49:16 attitude towards them. 49:17 >>Verse 8 says that they hid themselves. 49:18 What's happening in the context is who are they hiding from? 49:22 Not each other they're hiding together. 49:23 [Laughter] 49:24 >>So Adam and Eve were both in the bushes hiding together. 49:27 They're hiding from God which says that their whole perception 49:30 of God's character has been so distorted that now they're 49:33 expecting things from God that aren't even there. 49:36 >>Yesss. 49:37 >>That's right. 49:38 >>They're not even there when God finally does come to them. 49:41 He doesn't come pouncing and snorting and pointing the 49:43 finger. 49:44 He comes 49:45 >>to announce good news. 49:46 >>to announce good news 49:48 >>He comes to announce that a way of escape has been made from 49:50 the predicament which they find themselves. 49:52 >> I think it's a bit weird that they're going to hide in bushes 49:56 behind a tree. 49:57 Like you would think. 49:58 >>Well there were no buildings to hide in at that point 50:01 Jeffrey. 50:02 >>I'm wondering why they're hiding behind a tree period. 50:03 I mean you would think. 50:04 >>verses? 50:05 >>verses I'm just saying this is God this is Almighty God. 50:07 >>They're hiding in two ways. 50:09 >>So I'm saying it has to be deeper. 50:11 >>First of all they're trying to hide in the sense of making the 50:14 covering. 50:15 They're trying to hide their nakedness. 50:16 They're trying to hide their guilt. 50:18 They're trying to compensate for the problem they sense is going 50:20 on. 50:21 They feel condemned. 50:23 And they're trying to ameliorate that sense of condemnation. 50:25 Secondly they hide in the trees because it's the irrational 50:31 thing to do. 50:32 >>that's my point. 50:34 That's where I'm going. 50:35 >>Well didn't you hear the verse I was quoting. 50:36 I don't know where it is. 50:37 >>Proverbs 28:1. 50:38 >>The wicked pursue when 50:40 >>no one is 50:41 >>the wicked 50:42 >>flee 50:43 >>flee when no one pursues. 50:44 That's the phobia of the sin problem. 50:46 You're assuming ok here comes God let's hide. 50:51 It's pointless of course it's irrational. 50:53 >>And so what I'm saying is that. 50:56 >>how do you hide from an omnipresent God. 50:57 >>That's the point. 50:59 That's a powerful picture of the world today. 51:00 I mean the way we live our lives it is so irrational. 51:01 And it even goes contrary to what we already know is reality 51:05 and we go contrary to reality. 51:08 They're hiding from God. 51:10 It's impossible to hide from God. 51:12 So I think that's another dimension of the psychology of 51:15 sins impact on the human psyche and the human experience. 51:18 >>The irrationality is born out of the fact that they are now 51:22 experiencing a battery of emotions that God never intended 51:25 or created them to experience. 51:28 >>And they don't know how to react. 51:30 For the first time. 51:31 I mean we're very familiar to what of what shame feels like. 51:34 I mean I know I'm. 51:35 >>How bout that 51:37 >>I'm very well familiar of what shame and guilt feels like. 51:40 >>That Fernando Ortega song that. 51:41 >>Which one? 51:42 >>Remember me not my shame. 51:43 >>Mmm 51:45 >>That, that every time I hear that song it just. 51:46 >>Just imagine these people that for the first time. 51:49 >>Ever. 51:50 >>Ever they're experiencing what it feels like to be ashamed and 51:56 to feel guilty. 51:58 And I love what you said. 52:00 They're just like freaking out. 52:02 Because they've never felt that before. 52:03 They don't even know what to do. 52:06 So they go hiding. 52:07 >>So these are survival mechanisms. 52:08 >>Coping. 52:10 >>Coping mechanisms they're breaking down mentally and 52:12 emotionally feeling guilty. 52:14 They hide from God because they're afraid of him. 52:16 God comes and says where are you? 52:18 Obviously in the story the tone of his voice is not as 52:21 threatening as they were expecting. 52:22 It's not threatening at all. 52:24 They immediately present themselves before the Lord. 52:26 They come before God. 52:27 And they say well the reason we were hiding this because we were 52:29 afraid because we were naked. 52:31 And then God says who told you you were naked? 52:33 I mean think of that. 52:35 >>Mhm. 52:36 >>Who told you you were naked. 52:37 What is God saying in that? 52:38 Who told you you were naked? 52:39 Not me. 52:40 The implication is is that what you think of me? 52:48 Is that how you expected me to approach you? 52:49 You're feeling shame. 52:51 You're feeling condemnation but it's not coming from me. 52:55 >>Mhm. 52:57 >>These are things that are going on inside your heart and 52:58 mind because of what does he say? 53:01 Did you eat? 53:02 >>of the tree. 53:03 >>Of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? 53:06 The forbidden tree. 53:07 God immediately points to the sin itself as the source of all 53:11 these new battery of negative emotions they're experiencing. 53:15 >>What's amazing to me is the first response that Adam gives 53:18 is a clear indication of the complete depravity of human 53:23 nature right at the fall. 53:25 He says the woman. 53:28 The woman. 53:29 The woman. 53:30 It's self-justification immediately. 53:31 >>Blame casting. 53:33 >>Blame casting the woman you gave me. 53:35 She's the one. 53:36 >>And it goes perfectly with what we said. 53:38 The instance that they sever that connection and relationship 53:41 with God it immediately has social implications. 53:45 So the first recorded instance of a--Christ. 53:50 >>Yeah the love selfless. 53:52 >>Yeah it's the very second or moment after they break their 53:55 connection with God and so that goes back with the whole first 53:58 commandment, second commandment. 54:00 Love to God you break that. 54:01 >>The vertical the horizontal. 54:04 >>Well that's why the bible. 54:06 We're talking about the sin problem. 54:08 The bible defines sin in First John 3:4 as transgression of the 54:11 law. 54:13 And then in Romans 13:10 says that basically the law is love, 54:16 right? 54:17 So when we're defining sin in the fall of mankind we're 54:21 basically saying that sin is the fall of mankind is constituted 54:24 in anti-love. 54:27 It's a violated 54:28 >>Say that last part again. 54:29 Say that last part again. 54:31 >>Sin is defined biblically as transgression of the law. 54:33 The law is love. 54:35 Right. 54:36 Romans 13:10. 54:38 >>Okay got it. 54:39 >>Therefore sin is any thought, feeling or action that is 54:41 contrary to love. 54:42 It's all anti-love behavior whether it's mental, emotional 54:45 or actionable behavior. 54:47 >>That's why Romans 3:23 says that it's falling short of the 54:50 glory of God. 54:51 >>Yeah. 54:52 >>Exodus 33:34 the glory of God is revelation is character of 54:55 who he is. 54:56 God is love. 54:57 And you look at that in the context of the fall in Hebrews. 54:59 Hebrews talks about how everything is put in subjection. 55:02 Now we don't see everything in subjection. 55:04 But we see Jesus who is made a little lower than the angels for 55:08 the suffering death. 55:09 So Jesus came to redeem to take away the restriction which is 55:13 death. 55:14 Ultimately the restriction is death, of everything summarized. 55:16 And then it goes on and this is really, really powerful verse 10 55:20 of Hebrews 2 says for it was fitting for him, Jesus, for whom 55:26 are all things and by whom are all things in bringing many sons 55:29 to glory. 55:30 >>Yeah. 55:32 >>Whoa. 55:33 >>He's bringing back to glory. 55:34 We've fallen short of the glory. 55:35 We've fallen short of the character. 55:36 We've fallen short of the love. 55:37 We've fallen short of selflessness. 55:38 Adam is pointing to Eve. 55:40 Eve, by the way follows Adam, follows suit, perfect pattern. 55:44 You pointed to me. 55:45 I'm pointing to 55:46 >>God 55:47 >>the serpent. 55:48 >>and ultimately. 55:49 >>Ultimately to God. 55:50 >>to God. 55:52 >>It was the serpent that you put in the garden. 55:53 >>Yes But Jesus comes and he's bringing us back to glory, back 55:56 to glory, back to glory. 55:58 >>You know I've got my little doll here or figurine and 56:00 there's something that we just have to say here and this whole 56:03 conversation that we're having is predicated on a basic 56:06 assumption that we're going to get into our next conversation. 56:08 And that is that Adam and Eve were very unlike this figurine 56:14 that I have here which I can just manipulate in any way that 56:17 I want. 56:20 This being is not free to be in the position that it wants to be 56:24 in. 56:25 It's going to be in the position that I put it in. 56:26 >>Yeah. 56:28 >>But the whole story--everything that we've 56:29 talked about up to this point is built on the broad foundation of 56:32 an assumed freedom. 56:34 In other words he could have or could not have. 56:37 He could have been loyal or not been loyal which in my mind is 56:41 not only the answer, which it is. 56:43 It also raises a series of questions. 56:45 Number one why did God make mankind like this? 56:48 >>Rather than another way. 56:51 >>Rather than another way. 56:52 Why not like this. 56:54 Well I think that we're all quite happy that we're not like 56:56 this. 56:57 But it does sort of raise the significant question if God made 57:01 us with this kind of what you might call dangerous freedom was 57:03 that the best way to do it? 57:07 Now I think the answer to that is yes. 57:08 But if we don't if we don't begin to engage that 57:10 conversation. 57:11 >>Yeah, yeah. 57:12 >>Then we're gonna fall short of the real intent of Genesis 3. 57:15 >>Yeah 57:16 >>Mhm 57:17 >>That's where we're gonna go. 57:18 >>Which is the abuse of freedom and the appropriate use of 57:19 freedom. 57:21 >>We have like 40 seconds left and since you used this guy I'm 57:23 just gonna say here's the posture of the fall of mankind. 57:25 He's in running motion. 57:28 He's in shame motion and he's in blame motion. 57:32 He's pointing the finger. 57:35 >>Mhm 57:36 >>He's running from God. 57:38 He's ashamed. 57:39 That's the fall of mankind. 57:41 >>Experiencing emotions that God never created him or intended 57:44 for him to experience. 57:45 And we see all of these coping mechanisms that are just pushing 57:49 them further and further and further from the 57:51 >>And passion for independence that actually enslaves. 57:54 >>Mmm, mmm 57:55 >>Say it--say it again a passion for independence. 57:58 >>That actually enslaves. 58:00 >>Yeah >That's Genesis 3, that's Genesis 3. 58:04 >>Hey we're gonna just we're gonna be really really blessed 58:07 to get into the next part of this discussion. 58:08 >>To receive our free monthly newsletter and a list of Light 58:17 Bearers resources visit us online at lightbearers.org or 58:20 call us toll free at 1-877-585-1111. 58:24 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper |
Revised 2014-12-17