[Music]
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[Music]
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>>Our conversation for, for this
particular topic is going to go
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in a negative dark
direction at first.
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But there's even good
news in what we're going to be
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discovering.
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We've talked about what is
the bible and what's it about.
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We've talked about God.
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>>God.
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>>His nature, His
character, what and who is God.
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We've spent some time
talking about creation.
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What we are as human beings
and how God made us and for what
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purpose.
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And now we're going to talk
about what is commonly referred
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to as the fall with a capital f.
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>>Hmm.
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>>The fall of humanity.
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It's a sobering subject.
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We, all of us are caught
in the aftermath of the fall.
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We wake up every day.
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We experience the residual
effects of that colossal event
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in the history of God's
creation of the universe.
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So let's-- just begin
to probe this subject.
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Let's just dive right into it.
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Its bad news but we'll
discover some good news in it.
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>>Something that I want to just
say right off the bat when you
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mention the things
that we've been over.
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Our third conversation
was all about creation.
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Man I loved that conversation.
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There were so many little
things--everybody was just
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really in the zone.
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I think they've all been really
nice but something I think we
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maybe didn't say exactly.
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But we probably should
have said at some point.
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It was certainly implied.
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And that is that even though
the Genesis creation account is
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poetic.
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Even though there's
poetic language in there.
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The account is a literal,
historical account of what
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actually happened.
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Now the reason I bring that up
here is that we're about ready
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to get into part of that.
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You know the fall in
Genesis chapter 3 tells a story.
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And it's not just an analogy.
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It's not just a metaphor.
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It's not just some
legendary embellishment.
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No this happened.
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And creation happened.
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And this is what happened
when God's original plan was
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circumvented.
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>>I've heard
people say occasionally.
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Hey, Genesis is
written in poetic style.
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It's a chiastic
structure and it's a poem.
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So we shouldn't
take it literally.
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But if you think about it people
communicate through poetry,
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actual things
that have happened.
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Or things they aspire to.
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A person writes a song because
they are trying to communicate
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something.
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So just because something is
written in a poetic form doesn't
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mean it's not true
or that its fiction.
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>>That's the point.
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>>Yeah that's the point.
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Exactly.
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So when we transition I'm
assuming, perhaps incorrectly
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that we just want to
go right to Genesis three.
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>>Yeah for sure.
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>>Because we go
Genesis one, Genesis two.
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We've spent a
lot of time on that.
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God He creates.
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He creates man in his
image, it's good, it's good.
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In fact I don't even
know if we read that verse.
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But we probably should.
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I mean that's just a
great place to start.
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Is Genesis 1:31 Genesis chapter
1 verse 31, the last verse of
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that chapter says then God
saw everything that he had made.
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And indeed it was very good.
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So the evening and the
morning were the sixth day.
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And that's a recurrent theme.
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Talking about those,
sort of poetic repetitions.
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You have that and it
was good and it was good.
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God saw that it was good, that
it was good, that it was good,
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and then it
concludes that God looks out.
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You know, the vast panorama of
all that he has made including
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and especially mankind.
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And He says it's very good.
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>>Mmm
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>>Yeah, so the difference
between good, good, good, good,
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good I think that's five and
very good is creation in process
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and all the
different, that's six, ok.
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[Laughter]
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>>So five days it's good and
on the sixth day it's very good,
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creation in process with
its various parts, creation
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complete, perfect.
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And that perfection was free of
all pain and suffering and evil.
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There was no
relational tension or breakdown.
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We've described that perfect
pristine identic state as a
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relational bliss.
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In our previous conversations
we've talked about the fact that
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God basically is
relational bliss.
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>>Yes
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>>Relational enjoyment Father,
Son and Holy Spirit living
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forever in eternity past and
in love relationship with one
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another.
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Then created their image.
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Their image, the man and
the woman with the capacity for
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creating a family, a
growing family was also bliss.
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It was it was
other centeredness.
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Adam saw Eve and related to
her in reference to her needs.
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>>Yes.
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>>And vice versa.
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>>Mhm.
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>>There was not
self-consciousness.
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There was no sense of oh
wow what does she think of me?
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What does he think of me?
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It was all ministry moving
outward and then receiving in as
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the byproduct of giving out.
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>>Right.
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>>That's the
definition of very good.
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That's perfection.
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And that's what was lost.
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So we come to chapter three.
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>>Just something I'll
quickly throw in there.
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And that is so perfection then
is not the absence of a thing.
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It's not just
the absence of evil.
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It's the presence of
love in relational integrity.
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I loved what you said
the other day, so simple.
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There were no hospitals and
there were no police cars, or
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policemen.
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So that's--but it wasn't just
the absence of a thing it was
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the presence of this beautiful,
relational harmonious picture.
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>>Hey by the way do you
guys know what Eden means?
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E-D-E-N the word Eden?
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>>Pleasure, yeah.
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>>Pleasure.
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I mean that's lost on
the common reader, I think.
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I don't think you just; oh
it's a place, like Chicago.
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But what does it mean?
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The word means pleasure.
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So God created the man and
the woman and He put them in an
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environment.
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And what did God call the
environment He put them in?
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>>Mmm
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>>Pleasure.
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>>That's right.
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>>I've made you and I've put
you in the garden of pleasure.
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>>That goes back to
what we were saying earlier.
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The purpose for God creating man
was to know Him and to enjoy Him
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forever.
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>> [Everyone commenting at once]
>>But in our world today it
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seems like
pleasure has been hijacked.
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And when we think of pleasure
lots of times it's, oh the P
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word.
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He said the P word.
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You know, it's something that's
often attached to shame and
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other things when
it was created by God.
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>>Yeah, Yeah.
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>>It reminds me of a bible verse
I just wanted to look this up in
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a different version here.
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Psalm 16 and--I really like this
Ipad--Psalm 16 and verse 11 it
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says You will show me the
path of life in your presence is
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fullness of joy at your right
hand are pleasures forevermore.
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>>Yeah.
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>>So pleasure--there's this idea
as you said Jeffrey and it's
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picked up in the bible in
Hebrews for example it talks
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about Moses who was Pharaoh.
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He could have been Pharaoh
in Egypt but he chose to suffer
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with the affliction of his
people rather than to enjoy the
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pleasure of sin for a season.
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I really like that because
God created in the beginning He
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created an environment
that--that had us enjoying
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pleasure forevermore.
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>>Yeah.
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>>In Hebrews the definition of
the pleasure that the world has
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to offer now post creation,
post fall, is for a season.
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It's fleeting.
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It's seasonal.
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It's temporary.
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It's not.
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>>Superficial.
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>>It's superficial.
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>>Is sin a parasite
on God's original intent?
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>>That's a great
way to explain it.
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>>Has the devil--has the fall
of mankind hijacked the human
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system and used it
for illicit pleasures.
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But there's nothing in and
of itself that God made that is
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bad.
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I mean just
look at what you are.
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Look at what I am.
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God created the
man and the woman.
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We have eyes to see things and
he created a profusion of color
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to surround them.
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>>Let me give you an example
of this that I think it's really
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interesting when I
first understood some of the
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principles of the bible.
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I learned about healthful eating
and I remember when I was a
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young boy I used to eat white
bread and I can eat maybe even
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half a loaf of that white bread.
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I mean I could take one.
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>>You could just make it
into a ball couldn't you?
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>>Make it into a ball and just
pop it and pop it and pop it in.
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I remember the first
time I started eating.
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>>You were a white bread junky.
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>>Yes.
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Whole wheat bread and I couldn't
stand whole wheat bread.
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I just didn't like it.
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It was heavy.
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It was thick.
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It was just ugh.
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And, by the way now,
that's all I can eat.
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I can't stand white bread so
it's amazing how your taste buds
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change.
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But I remember eating a slice of
whole wheat bread maybe two and
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that was it.
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I could not--I was full.
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I was stuffed.
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And it reminded me of the fact
that the reason why I could only
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eat a slice or two of whole
wheat bread is because that
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bread was filled
with nutrient value.
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It wasn't-it was not devoid of
the things that you don't find
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in the white.
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It was filled with all of
the nutrients my body needed.
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So it satisfied me
in a different way.
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In other words, when you take
pleasure out of the context in
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which God created it.
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Not only do you have it fleeting
but you need more and more and
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more.
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>>Okay I got it.
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I was like okay.
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>>Yeah.
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>>Alright I'm gonna stop eating
white bread but where you're
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going with this.
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>>Pornography for example.
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Pornography for example you
see that as an epidemic in our
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society today.
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And it seems like that
when you get hooked on it.
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You just need more and
more and more and more and more.
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Now one of the greatest, I
think, ways to heal that disease
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>>Addiction.
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>>An addiction is to find the
way that God created us to have
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that kind of
sexual satisfaction.
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>>Intimate pleasure.
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>>Intimate pleasure in
the context of marriage.
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Commitment, long-term, the
wholeness that satisfies and
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doesn't have you craving for
that which isn't satisfying but
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for a moment.
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>>Yeah
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>>So what you're saying I
love what you are saying there.
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And it ties in directly
with what Ty was just saying.
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And that is that
there is a parasitizing.
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In other words, pornography is
bad because it's a perversion of
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what God made to be good.
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>>Exactly.
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>>In the beginning.
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>>We talked
about Song of Solomon.
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>>Yeah everything else.
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>>Everything else.
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>>Where I was gonna go with that
though--I began with the eyes.
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But look at what you are.
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Look at what I am.
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You have eyes to
see beautiful things.
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You can use them
to see bad things.
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You have ears to
hear good things.
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You can use them
to hear bad things.
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You have a tongue
to taste good flavors.
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Think about this.
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God's the one who engineered
the human system in this way.
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Right?
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So you could say with total
biblical accuracy that the human
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being literally is an
engineering marvel in the sense
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that we are pleasure machines.
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That's too--I
don't like that word.
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But we are-we are
made, put it that way.
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We are made to
experience pleasure.
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God created human beings putting
them in the garden of pleasure.
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When we come to the fall of
mankind what we're dealing with
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is everything that God made
good, good, good, good, good,
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very good being
hijacked and turned.
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>>Perverted.
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>>Perverted, that's a great
word--to evil purposes--to wrong
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purposes.
00:11:25.80\00:11:27.06
And then I love the point you're
making James, then there's no
00:11:27.06\00:11:29.20
real sustained satisfaction.
00:11:29.20\00:11:31.66
>>Right.
00:11:31.66\00:11:32.76
>>It's short, it's transitory.
00:11:32.76\00:11:33.83
It's like a fix.
00:11:33.83\00:11:34.80
>>Yes.
00:11:34.80\00:11:35.80
>>It's like you take
in a short little burst of
00:11:35.80\00:11:37.33
self-centeredness pleasure.
00:11:37.33\00:11:39.43
But you're not experiencing the
long term sustained pleasure of
00:11:39.43\00:11:41.86
other centered love.
00:11:41.86\00:11:45.20
>>I've just got to throw in here
what might be my very favorite
00:11:45.20\00:11:48.80
C.S.
00:11:48.80\00:11:51.03
Lewis quote and he essentially
says that there's no such thing
00:11:51.03\00:11:55.46
as pleasure without the
fulfillment of that pleasure.
00:11:55.46\00:11:57.36
And then he
gives several examples.
00:11:57.36\00:11:59.06
He says you know a
duckling wants to swim.
00:11:59.06\00:12:00.63
Well there is
such a thing as water.
00:12:00.63\00:12:02.13
And a baby is hungry.
00:12:02.13\00:12:03.10
There is such a thing as food.
00:12:03.10\00:12:04.23
And men and women
want sexual desire.
00:12:04.23\00:12:07.26
Well there's
such a thing as sex.
00:12:07.26\00:12:08.50
He says but if I find
within myself a desire which no
00:12:08.50\00:12:11.70
experience in
this world can satisfy.
00:12:11.70\00:12:14.86
The most probable explanation
is that I was made for another
00:12:14.86\00:12:18.46
world.
00:12:18.46\00:12:20.26
So what we have is--is
that there's--that's what you're
00:12:20.26\00:12:23.43
saying, you know.
00:12:23.43\00:12:24.40
We have eyes.
00:12:24.40\00:12:25.50
There's beauty.
00:12:25.50\00:12:26.16
We have a nose.
00:12:26.16\00:12:26.96
There's beautiful smells.
00:12:26.96\00:12:27.93
We have a mouth.
00:12:27.93\00:12:28.83
There's beautiful tastes.
00:12:28.83\00:12:30.00
But even so because we're
in this fallen state there is
00:12:30.00\00:12:31.70
something for which we
long that no earthly experience.
00:12:31.70\00:12:36.70
Even the best and most Godly
of earthly experiences can quite
00:12:36.70\00:12:40.40
sat--we sense that we are cut
off from the umbilical cord of
00:12:40.40\00:12:45.46
Eden.
00:12:45.46\00:12:46.23
Something is missing.
00:12:46.23\00:12:48.43
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:12:48.43\00:12:49.43
>>I love that.
00:12:49.43\00:12:50.66
>>Another thing that I think
that's really powerful is the
00:12:50.66\00:12:52.76
idea that God created us
for pleasure and the ultimate
00:12:52.76\00:12:56.66
pleasure that God created us for
is the pleasure of selflessness
00:12:56.66\00:13:01.20
or other centeredness.
00:13:01.20\00:13:03.13
>>That's the point.
00:13:03.13\00:13:05.20
>>The pleasure of
giving and doing for others.
00:13:05.20\00:13:07.73
So I find myself doing things in
relationship to God's will that
00:13:07.73\00:13:12.26
I never would've
considered a pleasure before.
00:13:12.26\00:13:13.70
And some people looking on
can be thanking me for doing
00:13:13.70\00:13:15.46
something that I
consider a pleasure.
00:13:15.46\00:13:17.06
Thank you for pleasure.
00:13:17.06\00:13:18.96
Thank you for--I find myself.
00:13:18.96\00:13:21.03
>>You're not just saying this.
00:13:21.03\00:13:22.26
>>Yes.
00:13:22.26\00:13:23.06
>>It's not just
a cultural nicety.
00:13:23.06\00:13:24.36
You mean it.
00:13:24.36\00:13:25.36
>>Yeah.
00:13:25.36\00:13:26.33
>It was a pleasure.
00:13:26.33\00:13:27.23
>>Like labor for example.
00:13:27.23\00:13:28.20
God created us for labor.
00:13:28.20\00:13:29.66
And in this world today there's
a lot of idea that, well, labor
00:13:29.66\00:13:32.30
is something you
gotta get out of the away.
00:13:32.30\00:13:33.73
You gotta do so that you can
make so you can get so you can
00:13:33.73\00:13:37.13
retire.
00:13:37.13\00:13:38.56
But in my thinking
I don't understand.
00:13:38.56\00:13:40.30
I can't relate to that
as much because God has been
00:13:40.30\00:13:42.50
re-educating-the
bible kind of re-educates.
00:13:42.50\00:13:44.60
And you go in this
direction I think is identic.
00:13:44.60\00:13:47.50
I think it's pleasurable.
00:13:47.50\00:13:49.60
You go in this direction where
you gain pleasure out of labor.
00:13:49.60\00:13:53.26
>>Being productive.
00:13:53.26\00:13:54.73
>>Yeah.
00:13:54.73\00:13:55.70
>>It's the white
bread and the wheat bread.
00:13:55.70\00:13:56.96
>>It's so powerful when you're
doing what God created you to
00:13:56.96\00:13:59.23
do.
00:13:59.23\00:14:00.30
I think it becomes
difficult when you're not.
00:14:00.30\00:14:01.53
>>Can I and maybe this isn't
the direction that we want to go
00:14:01.53\00:14:05.53
here.
00:14:05.53\00:14:06.76
But for me I think it would
be extremely helpful for this
00:14:06.76\00:14:08.03
conversation to provide sort of
a basis and also for those that
00:14:08.03\00:14:10.10
are listening in to go
back to the Genesis 3 account.
00:14:10.10\00:14:12.86
And to say ok well if that's
what God created and it was very
00:14:12.86\00:14:16.43
good then how,
specifically, did we get here?
00:14:16.43\00:14:19.40
>>Yeah.
00:14:19.40\00:14:20.23
>>How did we get
to the white bread?
00:14:20.23\00:14:21.90
>>Let's break it down.
00:14:21.90\00:14:24.16
Let's go to Genesis 3.
00:14:24.16\00:14:25.43
Would you guys be comfortable
if we just begin by just reading
00:14:25.43\00:14:27.83
the whole passage and then
backing it up and breaking it
00:14:27.83\00:14:32.10
down?
00:14:32.10\00:14:33.06
It's a long passage
that's why I'm asking.
00:14:33.06\00:14:34.00
>>Let's do it.
00:14:34.00\00:14:34.90
>>It's a long passage but.
00:14:34.90\00:14:36.03
>>Let's read
through it together.
00:14:36.03\00:14:38.30
>>But if we just move through it
then we'll have the ground work
00:14:38.30\00:14:40.10
before us and.
00:14:40.10\00:14:40.80
>>We can see where it's going.
00:14:40.80\00:14:43.80
>>Minutes left in this
segment of the conversation.
00:14:43.80\00:14:45.46
Then we'll just get through
it and then we'll come back and
00:14:45.46\00:14:47.33
break it down.
00:14:47.33\00:14:48.60
Starting with verse 1 in Genesis
chapter 3 now the serpent was
00:14:48.60\00:14:52.70
more cunning than any beast of
the field which the Lord God had
00:14:52.70\00:14:55.66
made.
00:14:55.66\00:14:56.96
And he said to the woman, "Has
God indeed said, 'You shall not
00:14:56.96\00:15:00.96
eat of every
tree of the garden'?"
00:15:00.96\00:15:03.33
And the woman said to the
serpent, "We may eat the fruit
00:15:03.33\00:15:07.36
of the trees of the garden;
verse 3 but of the fruit of the
00:15:07.36\00:15:10.63
tree which is in the midst of
the garden, God has said, 'You
00:15:10.63\00:15:12.56
shall not eat of it, nor shall
you touch it, lest you die.'"
00:15:12.56\00:15:16.43
Somebody else
want to pick up there?
00:15:16.43\00:15:17.93
>>Then the serpent said to the
woman, "You will not surely die.
00:15:17.93\00:15:22.16
Verse 5 For God knows that in
the day you eat of it your eyes
00:15:22.16\00:15:25.16
will be opened, and you will
be like God, knowing good and
00:15:25.16\00:15:28.50
evil."
00:15:28.50\00:15:29.76
So when the woman saw that the
tree was good for food, and that
00:15:29.76\00:15:32.50
it was pleasant to the eyes,
and a tree desirable to make one
00:15:32.50\00:15:35.56
wise, she took of
its fruit and ate.
00:15:35.56\00:15:37.73
She also gave to her
husband with her, and he ate.
00:15:37.73\00:15:41.36
>>Then the eyes of both of them
were opened, and they knew that
00:15:41.36\00:15:45.70
they were naked; and they sewed
fig leaves together and made
00:15:45.70\00:15:49.60
themselves coverings.
00:15:49.60\00:15:52.60
And they heard the sound of the
Lord God walking in the garden
00:15:52.60\00:15:55.13
in the cool of the day, and Adam
and his wife hid themselves from
00:15:55.13\00:15:59.70
the presence of the Lord God
among the trees of the garden.
00:15:59.70\00:16:03.10
Then the Lord God called to
Adam and said to him, "Where are
00:16:03.10\00:16:07.43
you?"
00:16:07.43\00:16:08.40
>>I think down
to verse 12 David.
00:16:08.40\00:16:10.30
>>Sure, sure so he said, "I
heard Your voice in the garden,
00:16:10.30\00:16:12.96
and I was afraid because I
was naked; and I hid myself."
00:16:12.96\00:16:15.30
And He said, "Who told
you that you were naked?
00:16:15.30\00:16:17.73
Have you eaten from the tree of
which I commanded you that you
00:16:17.73\00:16:20.10
should not eat?"
00:16:20.10\00:16:21.86
>>So, so this is an account of
the fall of humanity the fall of
00:16:21.86\00:16:27.06
mankind.
00:16:27.06\00:16:28.23
The passage is so full of
significance that we need to
00:16:28.23\00:16:35.13
just break it
down point by point.
00:16:35.13\00:16:36.63
>>Slowly.
00:16:36.63\00:16:37.90
>>Yeah I want to just begin with
verse 1 and calling attention to
00:16:37.90\00:16:42.13
something that we
don't often consider.
00:16:42.13\00:16:45.16
When we think of the fall
of mankind we think of quote,
00:16:45.16\00:16:47.66
unquote the sin problem.
00:16:47.66\00:16:49.30
We rush right to behavioral
dimension of the problem
00:16:49.30\00:16:53.60
usually.
00:16:53.60\00:16:54.36
Sin is transgression of the law.
00:16:54.36\00:16:57.13
And indeed it is.
00:16:57.13\00:16:58.40
First John 3:4 we speak of sin
in terms of rebellion against
00:16:58.40\00:17:03.00
God.
00:17:03.00\00:17:03.73
We look at the act.
00:17:03.73\00:17:05.23
They partook of
the forbidden fruit.
00:17:05.23\00:17:07.80
Back in verse 1 we
need to get the backstory.
00:17:07.80\00:17:10.03
The backstory is that before the
act of disobedience--the act of
00:17:10.03\00:17:14.90
sin is engaged in something
is occurring in a conversation.
00:17:14.90\00:17:19.80
There's a conversation
occurring between the serpent.
00:17:19.80\00:17:23.10
>>There's another voice.
00:17:23.10\00:17:24.80
>>Yeah there's another voice.
00:17:24.80\00:17:26.20
And Jeffrey that voice
is introducing new ideas.
00:17:26.20\00:17:30.30
>>Mhm.
00:17:30.30\00:17:32.03
>>New perceptions, new concepts.
00:17:32.03\00:17:33.26
And the new perceptions and
ideas that are being introduced
00:17:33.26\00:17:37.43
are ideas and perceptions
specifically about God.
00:17:37.43\00:17:41.50
That's the subject.
00:17:41.50\00:17:42.80
>>It's in a question form.
00:17:42.80\00:17:44.20
>>Yeah.
00:17:44.20\00:17:45.03
>>Did God really say?
00:17:45.03\00:17:45.93
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:17:45.93\00:17:47.00
>>It's insinuating questioning.
00:17:47.00\00:17:50.83
It's questioning
the character of God.
00:17:50.83\00:17:53.23
>>Okay we gotta
take our break now.
00:17:53.23\00:17:56.00
Um and we're gonna have this
great--the great story of a guy
00:17:56.00\00:18:00.70
that James and I had the
privilege of meeting in Africa
00:18:00.70\00:18:04.13
named David.
00:18:04.13\00:18:05.43
And uh David's story
is amazing so let's just.
00:18:05.43\00:18:07.66
Let's just take in David's story
and we'll come right back and
00:18:07.66\00:18:12.03
continue in Genesis 3.
00:18:12.03\00:18:13.40
After I started drinking beers
and womanizing my life was at
00:18:13.40\00:18:24.33
stake.
00:18:24.33\00:18:25.93
In fact my marriage
was shaking every day.
00:18:25.93\00:18:30.00
I could go fight with my
wife quarrelling every day.
00:18:30.00\00:18:37.40
Kids would cry, you
know grab my trousers.
00:18:37.40\00:18:39.83
Don't beat my mother.
00:18:39.83\00:18:41.90
Don't beat our mother.
00:18:41.90\00:18:43.53
What has she done?
00:18:43.53\00:18:45.10
I continued drinking and to me
ok that looks to be more of good
00:18:45.10\00:18:51.90
life.
00:18:51.90\00:18:53.00
I thought I was
on top of the world.
00:18:53.00\00:18:56.36
But not realizing
that I was losing a lot.
00:18:56.36\00:19:00.76
I was not
satisfied with one girl.
00:19:00.76\00:19:06.10
I go to this one.
00:19:06.10\00:19:07.80
Tomorrow I go to another one.
00:19:07.80\00:19:09.63
I thought womanizing with a
different woman I would become a
00:19:09.63\00:19:13.90
champion.
00:19:13.90\00:19:15.16
But I never became one.
00:19:15.16\00:19:16.56
I wanted to satisfy
myself but then I was failing.
00:19:16.56\00:19:19.73
I want to empty myself.
00:19:19.73\00:19:21.50
I was not being fulfilled.
00:19:21.50\00:19:24.30
My wife before actually knowing
Jesus because she was also
00:19:24.30\00:19:33.43
getting annoyed, you
know of what I was doing.
00:19:33.43\00:19:35.73
But then after some time, after
reading the discovery guides.
00:19:35.73\00:19:39.70
And then some church members
used to approach her, give her
00:19:39.70\00:19:43.36
some literature to read.
00:19:43.36\00:19:45.56
But then I could
see her change you know.
00:19:45.56\00:19:50.36
I used to be very rough.
00:19:50.36\00:19:53.76
But then she was asking
politely, sometimes just crying.
00:19:53.76\00:19:59.70
Then I know she was, there was
something. Why is she changing
00:19:59.70\00:20:05.80
so suddenly? Then I could
go into the house, find these
00:20:05.80\00:20:10.30
discovery guides, grab
one go into the bedroom read.
00:20:10.30\00:20:14.06
Oh yeah I think
that's why she's changing.
00:20:14.06\00:20:17.83
>>It was these bible study
guides that made the difference
00:20:17.83\00:20:25.03
in the lives of
people like David.
00:20:25.03\00:20:26.96
The simple process of reading
and believing the truth of God's
00:20:26.96\00:20:31.43
word was enough to shine a light
in their dark time and lead them
00:20:31.43\00:20:34.53
to Christ.
00:20:34.53\00:20:36.46
>>After some time, you know,
I started reading some discovery
00:20:36.46\00:20:41.23
guides.
00:20:41.23\00:20:42.50
Now after reading those I bought
a bible, actually and started
00:20:42.50\00:20:45.43
comparing what was in the
discovery guides of what was in
00:20:45.43\00:20:49.50
the Bible.
00:20:49.50\00:20:50.76
Continued reading the discovery
guides, stopped the womanizing.
00:20:50.76\00:20:54.13
Like I said earlier
on stopped women now.
00:20:54.13\00:20:57.56
Stopped moving with my friends.
00:20:57.56\00:21:02.20
Stopped the drinking.
00:21:02.20\00:21:06.03
Now after reading these
[unintelligable] I got convinced
00:21:06.03\00:21:09.60
that I at least I
have also to join.
00:21:09.60\00:21:12.36
Am now ready to
be baptized as well.
00:21:12.36\00:21:16.86
I'm happy [unintelligable]
discover Jesus through these
00:21:16.86\00:21:22.10
discovery guides.
00:21:22.10\00:21:23.16
It's good that the Lord
has entered into my heart.
00:21:23.16\00:21:27.83
Right now satisfaction in the
Lord a whole new life to let go.
00:21:27.83\00:21:32.90
I rather hold onto Jesus and
see that my life is completely
00:21:32.90\00:21:39.53
changed.
00:21:39.53\00:21:47.10
>>To partner with Light Bearers
in spreading the gospel visit us
00:21:47.10\00:21:49.96
online at lifbearers.org.
00:21:49.96\00:21:52.23
Or call us toll
free at 1-877-585-1111.
00:21:52.23\00:21:57.96
You can also write to us
at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper
00:21:57.96\00:22:02.90
Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438.
00:22:02.90\00:22:04.80
>>David's story is incredible.
00:22:04.80\00:22:09.26
Like I said before the break.
00:22:09.26\00:22:11.60
>>Amen.
00:22:11.60\00:22:12.86
>>James and I actually had the
privilege of meeting him when we
00:22:12.86\00:22:15.66
were in Africa and he's been
dramatically impacted by the
00:22:15.66\00:22:18.96
ministry of Light Bearers.
00:22:18.96\00:22:21.50
But here's the
thing in his story.
00:22:21.50\00:22:23.10
He really is an illustration as
all of us are of what the fall
00:22:23.10\00:22:29.43
entails and what
redemption looks like.
00:22:29.43\00:22:33.26
I mean this guy was basically
just chugging down the pleasures
00:22:33.26\00:22:37.93
of the world, taking in whatever
he could grab and gulp that the
00:22:37.93\00:22:42.00
world has to offer.
00:22:42.00\00:22:44.16
And what did he say?
00:22:44.16\00:22:47.13
He says I was just empty.
00:22:47.13\00:22:48.40
It wasn't going anywhere and I
just--and and he became abusive
00:22:48.40\00:22:49.76
to his wife.
00:22:49.76\00:22:50.93
And then he encountered
the beautiful concepts of the
00:22:50.93\00:22:54.76
gospel, the good
news of the grace of God.
00:22:54.76\00:22:57.90
And it began to change him
in his thinking, his feeling and
00:22:57.90\00:23:02.16
then his relationships.
00:23:02.16\00:23:03.46
This guy is now experiencing
a steady long term kind of
00:23:03.46\00:23:08.13
pleasure.
00:23:08.13\00:23:09.00
>>Yeah.
00:23:09.00\00:23:10.26
>>That involves one relationship
with one woman, namely his wife,
00:23:10.26\00:23:12.66
praise God.
00:23:12.66\00:23:13.83
That he is totally devoted
to and now his children are
00:23:13.83\00:23:16.83
beginning to respect him again.
00:23:16.83\00:23:18.36
This guy's experiencing
the real kind of pleasure.
00:23:18.36\00:23:21.73
>>It's the white
bread the wheat bread.
00:23:21.73\00:23:23.43
>>Yes the white
bread wheat bread exactly.
00:23:23.43\00:23:25.03
>>You know it's funny when you
said there just an interesting
00:23:25.03\00:23:28.73
little thing.
00:23:28.73\00:23:30.00
When you said David story was
amazing I had forgotten about
00:23:30.00\00:23:32.46
the clip and the--his name is
David too and I was like yeah.
00:23:32.46\00:23:35.23
It's true because
every David story is amazing.
00:23:35.23\00:23:38.00
Every Jeffrey
story every Mary story.
00:23:38.00\00:23:41.00
Every story is an amazing story.
00:23:41.00\00:23:43.43
Every story of redemption
and in a sense everyone's story.
00:23:43.43\00:23:47.46
Everyone who comes to faith
is a story of the fall and of
00:23:47.46\00:23:50.60
redemption.
00:23:50.60\00:23:51.86
And even those who don't come to
faith their story is the story
00:23:51.86\00:23:54.73
of the fall.
00:23:54.73\00:23:55.86
>>Yes.
00:23:55.86\00:23:58.30
>>It's this--this is the
corporate story of humanity,
00:23:58.30\00:24:01.03
lack of trust and a
lack of love for God.
00:24:01.03\00:24:03.90
>>And that's what we get
here in Genesis chapter 3.
00:24:03.90\00:24:06.66
We get behind the scenes, not
just the actions, as we all have
00:24:06.66\00:24:11.03
identified them in the
transgression of the law.
00:24:11.03\00:24:13.53
But we get the subtle psychology
that was brought up in the mind
00:24:13.53\00:24:18.26
and heart of Eve and then
of Adam in relation to God.
00:24:18.26\00:24:22.30
In relation to the kind of
God the character of God that
00:24:22.30\00:24:25.83
created them.
00:24:25.83\00:24:27.06
That they were having fellowship
with--that they were having
00:24:27.06\00:24:29.10
relationship with.
00:24:29.10\00:24:30.36
And those questions that were
put in their mind is what led to
00:24:30.36\00:24:32.73
the actions.
00:24:32.73\00:24:34.00
>>Yeah the devil didn't
just come in the garden and say
00:24:34.00\00:24:36.06
listen.
00:24:36.06\00:24:36.76
>>Eat this.
00:24:36.76\00:24:37.93
>>Yeah he didn't just say
eat this, perform this act.
00:24:37.93\00:24:39.43
She would have
said no thank you.
00:24:39.43\00:24:41.03
>>And he didn't have like a
label on his forehead that said
00:24:41.03\00:24:43.13
hi I'm the devil.
00:24:43.13\00:24:44.53
>>And I'm on a collision course
with self-destruction would you
00:24:44.53\00:24:46.90
join me.
00:24:46.90\00:24:48.73
>>It was a subtle voice.
00:24:48.73\00:24:50.00
>>Yeah so he comes and the first
line says the serpent was more
00:24:50.00\00:24:52.53
cunning.
00:24:52.53\00:24:53.56
The old King James says subtle.
00:24:53.56\00:24:55.93
So he approaches with cunning
with subtlety another way to say
00:24:55.93\00:24:59.80
this is Satan approaches
human beings with an intent to
00:24:59.80\00:25:02.96
deceive.
00:25:02.96\00:25:04.10
He wants to skew and
distort their perception.
00:25:04.10\00:25:08.83
And God is, as we're about to
see, the subject or the target I
00:25:08.83\00:25:13.90
guess would be a better word
of this distortion campaign.
00:25:13.90\00:25:17.70
This propaganda campaign.
00:25:17.70\00:25:19.20
>>NIV says crafty.
00:25:19.20\00:25:20.70
>>Oh that's good.
00:25:20.70\00:25:21.76
>>It's crafty yeah.
00:25:21.76\00:25:22.96
>>Yeah, so--so what is the
subject matter of the deception
00:25:22.96\00:25:27.43
God--well what does he
say about God that is untrue?
00:25:27.43\00:25:30.60
>>In verse 4 and the serpent
says to the woman you will not
00:25:30.60\00:25:36.83
surely die.
00:25:36.83\00:25:38.96
So off the bat
right their it's already.
00:25:38.96\00:25:41.50
>>That's not off
the bat yet though bro.
00:25:41.50\00:25:43.63
>>You've just.
00:25:43.63\00:25:44.60
>>That's not off the
bat you skipped the bat.
00:25:44.60\00:25:46.63
>>Yeah I would say that when
he says has God indeed said you
00:25:46.63\00:25:50.60
shall not eat of
every tree of the garden.
00:25:50.60\00:25:52.90
The suggesting here is
that God is somehow restrictive.
00:25:52.90\00:25:55.36
In other words when you go back
and read Genesis chapter 2 God
00:25:55.36\00:25:59.40
says of every tree of the
garden you may freely eat.
00:25:59.40\00:26:02.73
>>Large horizon of freedom.
00:26:02.73\00:26:04.10
>>Yeah just a
small bit of restriction.
00:26:04.10\00:26:05.56
>>Yeah only for their good.
00:26:05.56\00:26:08.00
>>But the way that--yeah that's
right--it was a positive helpful
00:26:08.00\00:26:10.13
restriction.
00:26:10.13\00:26:11.70
But the way that Satan.
00:26:11.70\00:26:13.83
>>It was a protection.
00:26:13.83\00:26:14.73
>>Protection.
00:26:14.73\00:26:15.86
>>It was a protection.
00:26:15.86\00:26:17.13
>>But just the way--the subtlety
with which the serpent, Satan,
00:26:17.13\00:26:19.53
the enemy and we'll talk about
him because he just sort of
00:26:19.53\00:26:22.53
shows up in the story.
00:26:22.53\00:26:24.66
And we've not talked
about who or what he is.
00:26:24.66\00:26:26.86
We're gonna have to get to that.
00:26:26.86\00:26:28.80
But not right now.
00:26:28.80\00:26:30.06
He suggests that there's this
vast swath of restriction with
00:26:30.06\00:26:31.63
just a limited
amount of freedom.
00:26:31.63\00:26:32.83
I mean there's a subtle--and
he also suggests that God is
00:26:32.83\00:26:35.36
somehow unclear that
his word is not clear.
00:26:35.36\00:26:37.66
That there's
00:26:37.66\00:26:38.43
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:26:38.43\00:26:39.40
>>Equivocation.
00:26:39.40\00:26:40.83
>>Yeah that's
something between the lines.
00:26:40.83\00:26:42.40
>>Yeah.
00:26:42.40\00:26:43.23
>>He's implying something.
00:26:43.23\00:26:44.30
What's the word an insinuation?
00:26:44.30\00:26:45.63
If you were to say to somebody
who is a friend of yours.
00:26:45.63\00:26:49.50
Hey is your
husband really faithful?
00:26:49.50\00:26:54.53
>>Exactly.
00:26:54.53\00:26:57.70
>>Are you sure that he's not?
00:26:57.70\00:26:59.06
You're not blatantly
telling the lie right now.
00:26:59.06\00:27:00.83
>>You're planting the seed.
00:27:00.83\00:27:01.96
>>You're planting the
seed and you're saying---you're
00:27:01.96\00:27:04.50
suggesting that
something may be wrong.
00:27:04.50\00:27:06.10
>>Now the woman seems to sense
immediately, intuitively no
00:27:06.10\00:27:10.86
that's not quite right.
00:27:10.86\00:27:12.03
>>She tries to recover.
00:27:12.03\00:27:13.33
>>She recovers.
00:27:13.33\00:27:15.36
>>We can eat of the tree.
00:27:15.36\00:27:17.23
We can.
00:27:17.23\00:27:18.36
We can.
00:27:18.36\00:27:19.16
God said we can
eat of every tree.
00:27:19.16\00:27:20.00
What do you mean?
00:27:20.00\00:27:20.93
>>But she actually
goes a little too far.
00:27:20.93\00:27:22.16
She says God has said you shall
not eat it neither shall you
00:27:22.16\00:27:23.73
touch it lest you die.
00:27:23.73\00:27:25.03
And God had not said the
thing about the touching.
00:27:25.03\00:27:27.20
She seems to be adding this
just sort of overcorrect or over
00:27:27.20\00:27:30.46
compensate.
00:27:30.46\00:27:31.26
>>She's insecure.
00:27:31.26\00:27:32.43
>>What's interesting here
is she's taking an apologetic
00:27:32.43\00:27:34.26
attitude.
00:27:34.26\00:27:35.03
She's defending God's character.
00:27:35.03\00:27:36.06
She's defending him
against this insinuation.
00:27:36.06\00:27:37.96
No he says we can
eat of every tree.
00:27:37.96\00:27:40.50
Just one we can't.
00:27:40.50\00:27:41.60
>>But the mild destabilization
that's taken place
00:27:41.60\00:27:44.26
psychologically with her where
she's now coming to the defense.
00:27:44.26\00:27:48.93
Satan capitalizes on and now he
comes rather that subtlety just
00:27:48.93\00:27:50.50
a direct confrontal.
00:27:50.50\00:27:52.53
And that's where you
were going with verse 4.
00:27:52.53\00:27:54.56
No, no, no.
00:27:54.56\00:27:55.60
Because she said we'll die.
00:27:55.60\00:27:56.86
And he says you
will not surely die.
00:27:56.86\00:27:58.83
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:27:58.83\00:28:00.33
>>So subtlety has now
transitioned to just an
00:28:00.33\00:28:02.16
outright--now
that destabilization.
00:28:02.16\00:28:03.40
We can just imagine
something that's teetering.
00:28:03.40\00:28:05.00
And now he gives
it that further push.
00:28:05.00\00:28:06.53
Still and basically the
suggestion here it's not even a
00:28:06.53\00:28:08.40
suggestion.
00:28:08.40\00:28:09.56
The accusation here
is God is dishonest.
00:28:09.56\00:28:12.16
>>Yeah verse 4 is
where it really comes clear.
00:28:12.16\00:28:15.56
I mean it's crystal clear.
00:28:15.56\00:28:16.73
It's like pppp.
00:28:16.73\00:28:18.70
>>Yeah he's.
00:28:18.70\00:28:20.13
>>God has lied to you.
00:28:20.13\00:28:21.13
He is deceiving--he
is withholding something.
00:28:21.13\00:28:22.16
>>But he's
deceiving for a reason.
00:28:22.16\00:28:23.90
God has a motive.
00:28:23.90\00:28:24.93
Satan is getting
into God's character here.
00:28:24.93\00:28:26.66
God's up to something and
I'm about to tell you what it is
00:28:26.66\00:28:30.00
he's saying to her.
00:28:30.00\00:28:32.13
And that's verse 5.
00:28:32.13\00:28:33.16
>>Yeah.
00:28:33.16\00:28:34.33
>>God knows that if you eat.
00:28:34.33\00:28:36.06
>>That's the part where I think
he's suggesting that God is
00:28:36.06\00:28:38.76
restrictive.
00:28:38.76\00:28:39.70
>>Both.
00:28:39.70\00:28:41.13
>>God is trying to.
00:28:41.13\00:28:42.56
>>It's a continuum.
00:28:42.56\00:28:43.80
>>He's trying to limit
you from an experience.
00:28:43.80\00:28:45.13
>>Of course.
00:28:45.13\00:28:46.03
>>Yeah.
00:28:46.03\00:28:47.60
>>Of course but let's even the
way that that early question is
00:28:47.60\00:28:49.36
put.
00:28:49.36\00:28:50.70
>>Yeah it does imply.
00:28:50.70\00:28:51.56
>>It just plants the seed.
00:28:51.56\00:28:52.93
Now God is
dishonest and here's why.
00:28:52.93\00:28:54.86
In other words
it's not a one part.
00:28:54.86\00:28:56.63
It's not even a two part.
00:28:56.63\00:28:59.23
It's like a tripod deception.
00:28:59.23\00:29:00.80
You destabilize.
00:29:00.80\00:29:02.00
You confront and then
you insinuate the reason.
00:29:02.00\00:29:03.66
You implant the
reason as to why it is.
00:29:03.66\00:29:06.00
>>Jeffrey look at it this way
he's basically saying, you know,
00:29:06.00\00:29:09.36
prong one of this lie.
00:29:09.36\00:29:11.23
God is
unnecessarily restrictive.
00:29:11.23\00:29:13.50
Prong two He's
lied to you about this.
00:29:13.50\00:29:17.73
You're not gonna die if you eat.
00:29:17.73\00:29:20.36
Prong three the whole reason God
is lying to you is because he's
00:29:20.36\00:29:25.70
trying to hold back from you
something that really would be
00:29:25.70\00:29:28.23
for your greater
pleasure and good or whatever.
00:29:28.23\00:29:31.43
God is essentially--here's
the bottom line--self-serving.
00:29:31.43\00:29:33.23
You've been under the
impression that God loves you.
00:29:33.23\00:29:35.56
I'm telling you he doesn't.
00:29:35.56\00:29:37.20
And here the devil is literally
denying the existence of love as
00:29:37.20\00:29:41.70
the premise for the relationship
and saying listen, insinuating
00:29:41.70\00:29:47.10
you to basically look out for
number one because you think God
00:29:47.10\00:29:50.23
is out for you.
00:29:50.23\00:29:51.50
No God's out for himself.
00:29:51.50\00:29:52.80
God is selfish.
00:29:52.80\00:29:53.80
He is attacking the
very foundation of reality.
00:29:53.80\00:29:58.13
>>He's attacking the thing that
we've talked about in our first
00:29:58.13\00:30:03.56
conversation, our second
conversation and our third
00:30:03.56\00:30:05.53
conversation that God is love,
that God is relational, that God
00:30:05.53\00:30:07.43
is good.
00:30:07.43\00:30:08.40
And here this is a
direct frontal attack.
00:30:08.40\00:30:10.26
>>Right.
00:30:10.26\00:30:11.50
>>Now let me--maybe I could
just pause here for a moment.
00:30:11.50\00:30:15.36
And throw this out there.
00:30:15.36\00:30:16.63
We're talking about something
that happened thousands of years
00:30:16.63\00:30:18.10
ago, an actual event.
00:30:18.10\00:30:19.36
But in a way every one of us
at this table has operated under
00:30:19.36\00:30:23.83
and believed these very
same kind of deceptions.
00:30:23.83\00:30:27.70
>>Yep.
00:30:27.70\00:30:28.66
>>Yeah.
00:30:28.66\00:30:29.86
>>We're naturally wired with
suspicion, suspicion towards
00:30:29.86\00:30:31.30
God.
00:30:31.30\00:30:32.46
We're naturally
suspicious of God.
00:30:32.46\00:30:34.10
>>So let me just speak to--from
my own experience and I'm, you
00:30:34.10\00:30:37.53
know I think we should hear
everybody's here but just mine,
00:30:37.53\00:30:39.66
very briefly is that I became a
believer in Christ when I was 24
00:30:39.66\00:30:43.26
years old, right.
00:30:43.26\00:30:45.66
Uh, prior to my coming to faith
in Christ I was a purple haired,
00:30:45.66\00:30:50.26
tattooed, punk
rocker, skateboarder.
00:30:50.26\00:30:53.40
That was my life.
00:30:53.40\00:30:55.83
And if and when and it did
happen occasionally, people
00:30:55.83\00:30:59.06
would come and speak to me
about God or speak to me about
00:30:59.06\00:31:00.66
anything religious or anything
biblical my knee jerk reaction.
00:31:00.66\00:31:03.23
My instinctive reaction
was always too restrictive, too
00:31:03.23\00:31:06.90
restrictive; no I
wanna do my own thing.
00:31:06.90\00:31:09.20
I don't need some God
telling me what to do.
00:31:09.20\00:31:11.80
I'm free to be my own man right.
00:31:11.80\00:31:14.43
It was not probably an outright
atheism but it was agnosticism
00:31:14.43\00:31:17.60
that leaned toward and atheism.
00:31:17.60\00:31:19.50
Because I wanted freedom.
00:31:19.50\00:31:21.13
Everybody wants freedom.
00:31:21.13\00:31:22.30
So my basic view of God as
a purple haired, punk rock,
00:31:22.30\00:31:26.60
skateboarder was that God is
restrictive and if there were
00:31:26.60\00:31:29.96
such a being ad God he would
only want to take something from
00:31:29.96\00:31:33.63
me that I wanted to keep and
would be in my own best interest
00:31:33.63\00:31:35.93
to keep.
00:31:35.93\00:31:36.73
>>Yeah isn't that something?
00:31:36.73\00:31:37.90
>>But I mean how.
00:31:37.90\00:31:39.50
[Everyone talking at once]
00:31:39.50\00:31:40.70
>>That's the line right here.
00:31:40.70\00:31:42.46
>>Yeah we're in, you are, I am,
all of us are a product of the
00:31:42.46\00:31:46.40
fall.
00:31:46.40\00:31:47.30
We've been
infected with a primal lie.
00:31:47.30\00:31:49.63
And it's there.
00:31:49.63\00:31:51.16
It's in our thinking.
00:31:51.16\00:31:53.56
When we look, for example
at anything--anything that God
00:31:53.56\00:31:57.33
says, for example and we
perceive it as God's effort to
00:31:57.33\00:32:02.40
restrict my freedom.
00:32:02.40\00:32:03.66
We're wrong.
00:32:03.66\00:32:05.46
I have this verse that's just
been ringing in my own personal
00:32:05.46\00:32:08.30
experience that I just think is
fabulous in Psalm 119 verse 32.
00:32:08.30\00:32:13.06
Here is an inspired
perception of the law of God.
00:32:13.06\00:32:18.46
Now we're not talking
specifically about the law of
00:32:18.46\00:32:20.20
God.
00:32:20.20\00:32:21.46
But we're talking about the fact
that God said to Adam and Eve
00:32:21.46\00:32:22.90
you can do this but
don't do this, right.
00:32:22.90\00:32:27.86
So what's up with the
things God says don't do?
00:32:27.86\00:32:29.93
Is he a
micromanaging control freak?
00:32:29.93\00:32:32.43
Is he trying to
restrict my freedom?
00:32:32.43\00:32:40.40
Look at this Psalm 19 verse
32 David says I will run in the
00:32:40.40\00:32:42.33
course of your commandments
for you shall enlarge my heart.
00:32:42.33\00:32:45.06
And the NIV renders enlarge my
heart for you have set my heart
00:32:45.06\00:32:50.23
free.
00:32:50.23\00:32:51.90
>>Wow
00:32:51.90\00:32:52.93
>>Okay so you've got
here this idea, get this.
00:32:52.93\00:32:55.03
I will run.
00:32:55.03\00:32:58.33
You got the word run.
00:32:58.33\00:32:59.83
Question guys do
you need space to run?
00:32:59.83\00:33:01.23
>>Yes.
00:33:01.23\00:33:02.03
>>Can you run in your bedroom?
00:33:02.03\00:33:02.86
I don't know how
big your bedroom is.
00:33:02.86\00:33:05.90
Actually I know how
big all of your bedrooms.
00:33:05.90\00:33:08.40
[Laughter]
00:33:08.40\00:33:09.33
>>Your bedroom you
know is a small space.
00:33:09.33\00:33:10.86
You can't work up a--you
can't work up any momentum.
00:33:10.86\00:33:13.06
You can't run for wall to wall.
00:33:13.06\00:33:14.60
So there needs to be space.
00:33:14.60\00:33:16.16
David says when I look at
God's law I see space to run.
00:33:16.16\00:33:19.10
I see a large horizon.
00:33:19.10\00:33:22.50
And he says God
has set my heart free.
00:33:22.50\00:33:27.36
He has enlarged my heart.
00:33:27.36\00:33:28.83
>>That goes perfectly with
this here in James 2 verse 12.
00:33:28.83\00:33:34.60
The law of liberty.
00:33:34.60\00:33:39.50
>>Right.
00:33:39.50\00:33:40.23
>>Yes.
00:33:40.23\00:33:41.40
>>Of the law of liberty so
anytime God introduces some
00:33:41.40\00:33:42.73
parameters within which we
have--we should be living our
00:33:42.73\00:33:45.10
lives.
00:33:45.10\00:33:46.33
It's because it's only within
those parameters that we're
00:33:46.33\00:33:47.80
free.
00:33:47.80\00:33:49.03
The minute we violate those
parameters we become enslaved to
00:33:49.03\00:33:53.06
something.
00:33:53.06\00:33:54.73
>>Outside of God's realm.
00:33:54.73\00:33:56.66
>>I really like this too
because, because it does seem
00:33:56.66\00:33:59.66
to, to match and parallel the
present perception of religion.
00:33:59.66\00:34:04.93
Religion generally, I was
raised in a religious home.
00:34:04.93\00:34:08.03
I was raised
going to church every
00:34:08.03\00:34:10.30
>>Catholic home
00:34:10.30\00:34:11.46
>>Yep every week altar boy
said my prayers every night.
00:34:11.46\00:34:13.20
And in that context I really
wasn't interested in religion.
00:34:13.20\00:34:17.93
Religion was restrictive
religion was all about the
00:34:17.93\00:34:20.23
different forms and things I was
supposed to do especially during
00:34:20.23\00:34:22.46
lent or at Easter or
Christmas I needed to go here.
00:34:22.46\00:34:25.33
I needed to do that.
00:34:25.33\00:34:26.26
I needed to act
in a certain way.
00:34:26.26\00:34:28.00
And outside of those
parameters I found fun.
00:34:28.00\00:34:30.40
I found joy.
00:34:30.40\00:34:31.46
I found pleasure.
00:34:31.46\00:34:32.73
And inside of those parameters I
found to be very boring and very
00:34:32.73\00:34:35.10
restrictive.
00:34:35.10\00:34:36.23
>>Isn't that something?
00:34:36.23\00:34:39.53
>>Yeah very different from the
way my natural heart seemed to
00:34:39.53\00:34:41.36
tend.
00:34:41.36\00:34:42.56
When I actually got to the
place, and I was 21 years old
00:34:42.56\00:34:44.10
when I accepted
Christ as my personal savior.
00:34:44.10\00:34:46.00
And I thought it was because of
the fact, well, we're gonna talk
00:34:46.00\00:34:49.23
about this some more but the
outcome that I was experiencing
00:34:49.23\00:34:52.80
in my life doing my own thing
was very much like the outcome
00:34:52.80\00:34:56.60
that Adam and Eve
experienced in their life.
00:34:56.60\00:34:59.10
And that led me to
try another option.
00:34:59.10\00:35:01.13
And when I tried the other
option and I actually talked to
00:35:01.13\00:35:04.00
God, accepted Christ and asked
him to come into my life, I
00:35:04.00\00:35:10.10
found myself being set free,
having that space to actually
00:35:10.10\00:35:12.53
run away from things
that had imprisoned me.
00:35:12.53\00:35:15.70
>>You were deceived.
00:35:15.70\00:35:18.03
You were deceived.
00:35:18.03\00:35:19.30
What you said and what Jeffrey
said and what you said are so
00:35:19.30\00:35:22.30
spot on because they--we in the
world we have what we think is
00:35:22.30\00:35:24.73
freedom but it's
really not it's slavery.
00:35:24.73\00:35:27.76
And in Christianity people have
what you think is restriction
00:35:27.76\00:35:30.70
it's really freedom.
00:35:30.70\00:35:32.80
It's a complete
reversal of what's expected.
00:35:32.80\00:35:39.00
>>Which is
exactly what he says here?
00:35:39.00\00:35:40.46
>>In my experience I actually
went through this where, where I
00:35:40.46\00:35:42.36
grew up with no religion at all.
00:35:42.36\00:35:43.83
You know I don't think--nobody
raised me I just kind of
00:35:43.83\00:35:45.63
happened.
00:35:45.63\00:35:47.53
I mean I was raised in a
home with no father, an abusive
00:35:47.53\00:35:50.23
step-father and a mom that had
to work long hours and just was
00:35:50.23\00:35:53.63
completely caught
up in her own abuse.
00:35:53.63\00:35:56.33
I was just out on the streets
and for me as a kid growing up
00:35:56.33\00:36:00.60
as I came right there
into 11, 12 into my teenager.
00:36:00.60\00:36:04.53
I was just hyperaware
of and attracted to girls.
00:36:04.53\00:36:13.00
And that's no surprise.
00:36:13.00\00:36:14.30
>>That's not unusual.
00:36:14.30\00:36:15.73
>>All I--girls, girls, girls,
that's all I was aware of.
00:36:15.73\00:36:18.53
And here's the thing I went
through one broken relationship
00:36:18.53\00:36:21.93
after another at
a very young age.
00:36:21.93\00:36:25.10
You know, I like you.
00:36:25.10\00:36:26.56
Do you like me?
00:36:26.56\00:36:27.43
Oh we're
boyfriend and girlfriend.
00:36:27.43\00:36:28.66
Breakup.
00:36:28.66\00:36:29.73
>>Mhm.
00:36:29.73\00:36:30.93
>>Now it's on to her.
00:36:30.93\00:36:32.16
It's on to her.
00:36:32.16\00:36:32.93
It's on to her.
00:36:32.93\00:36:34.20
And then I met one girl and
we became friends then boyfriend
00:36:34.20\00:36:40.16
and girlfriend.
00:36:40.16\00:36:42.03
And we've had this sustained
relationship now for years and
00:36:42.03\00:36:44.20
years and years.
00:36:44.20\00:36:45.46
Now in my experience I look back
at those, those, that series of
00:36:45.46\00:36:51.80
broken relationships and all
of my friends and the world in
00:36:51.80\00:36:56.43
general operates that way.
00:36:56.43\00:36:58.06
You just move from relationship
to relationship to relationship
00:36:58.06\00:37:01.03
and there is a short
term pleasure that's involved
00:37:01.03\00:37:06.16
especially on the sexual level.
00:37:06.16\00:37:08.96
But here's the thing you're
actually short circuiting and
00:37:08.96\00:37:11.83
narrowing your capacity
for pleasure by moving from one
00:37:11.83\00:37:16.83
self-serving and self-centered
relationship after another.
00:37:16.83\00:37:19.06
And when you settle into and
move into one relationship with
00:37:19.06\00:37:23.80
one person for life, I'm saying
basically God says one person
00:37:23.80\00:37:27.40
for life.
00:37:27.40\00:37:30.36
Is that restrictive or is that
as the Psalm says enlarge your
00:37:30.36\00:37:33.86
heart.
00:37:33.86\00:37:34.96
>>It's both its restrictive
in the positive sense.
00:37:34.96\00:37:36.73
>>In a positive sense because
that grows your capacity for
00:37:36.73\00:37:39.63
trust, for security, for
reaching levels and dimensions
00:37:39.63\00:37:45.26
of pleasure that you would
never know in serial dating
00:37:45.26\00:37:49.56
situations.
00:37:49.56\00:37:50.83
>>You want love to be--I want my
wife to think that our love is
00:37:50.83\00:37:54.76
restrictive.
00:37:54.76\00:37:56.26
It's to our benefit that we view
love as restrictive isn't it?
00:37:56.26\00:38:00.10
>>It's restrictive in what Ty's
saying and I know you know this
00:38:00.10\00:38:03.53
in the broad sense.
00:38:03.53\00:38:04.80
In other words it's one woman
but now that you have the one
00:38:04.80\00:38:07.90
relationship there's a
depth that you can--that you can
00:38:07.90\00:38:11.56
achieve--that you cannot achieve
in one, serial dating as you
00:38:11.56\00:38:16.13
called it.
00:38:16.13\00:38:17.33
>>That was so interesting
because that's the very thing
00:38:17.33\00:38:18.53
we're picking up here in
Genesis, in Genesis 3 we're
00:38:18.53\00:38:21.23
picking up this little
restriction that Satan's trying
00:38:21.23\00:38:23.66
to magnify.
00:38:23.66\00:38:24.50
>>Yeah.
00:38:24.50\00:38:25.73
>>And then this huge liberty
that Satan's trying to diminish.
00:38:25.73\00:38:27.76
>On that, on that tell
me what you think of this.
00:38:27.76\00:38:31.16
This might be amazing.
00:38:31.16\00:38:32.36
[Laughter]
00:38:32.36\00:38:33.36
>>You just set yourself up bro.
00:38:33.36\00:38:35.93
You just set yourself up.
00:38:35.93\00:38:37.76
>>What you just
said inspired me.
00:38:37.76\00:38:40.30
>>It better be amazing.
00:38:40.30\00:38:41.90
>>Originally in the garden
there's one tree that has a
00:38:41.90\00:38:45.30
restr-stay
away, off limit label.
00:38:45.30\00:38:50.03
And every other tree is game on.
00:38:50.03\00:38:51.60
The minute they take of the
fruit reality changes and now
00:38:51.60\00:38:57.20
look at the
world we live in today.
00:38:57.20\00:38:59.16
Most of the stuff we see in the
world is things that's totally
00:38:59.16\00:39:03.20
opposed to God's will.
00:39:03.20\00:39:05.50
So we have a lot of
trees in the garden.
00:39:05.50\00:39:06.80
But most of the
trees are off limits.
00:39:06.80\00:39:09.76
And the very few are, the very
few things that we see in the
00:39:09.76\00:39:14.50
world that represent
or mirror God's will.
00:39:14.50\00:39:16.50
So what I'm saying is originally
one bad tree many good trees.
00:39:16.50\00:39:22.43
Now it's many help me out.
00:39:22.43\00:39:25.96
>>Bad trees.
00:39:25.96\00:39:27.80
>>Many bad trees.
00:39:27.80\00:39:28.76
>>And only one good
tree is that brilliant?
00:39:28.76\00:39:29.63
>>No no it's many bad trees.
00:39:29.63\00:39:31.86
>>And one--few good.
00:39:31.86\00:39:33.53
It's been flipped.
00:39:33.53\00:39:34.96
So the Devil said God's
original plan is restrictive.
00:39:34.96\00:39:37.60
But what has happened now as the
devils plan has been introduced
00:39:37.60\00:39:42.80
and accepted into the world now.
00:39:42.80\00:39:44.56
>>Okay.
00:39:44.56\00:39:45.46
>>It's restrictive.
00:39:45.46\00:39:46.40
>>That is that is good stuff.
00:39:46.40\00:39:47.40
I don't know about amazing.
00:39:47.40\00:39:48.60
I don't know about brilliant.
00:39:48.60\00:39:50.10
But that is good
I love it I love.
00:39:50.10\00:39:51.23
>>Sandbagged yourself.
00:39:51.23\00:39:52.23
>>And I hate to do this.
00:39:52.23\00:39:53.23
I hate to do this but
we have to take a break.
00:39:53.23\00:39:54.20
>>Okay.
00:39:54.20\00:39:55.33
>>And when we come right back.
00:39:55.33\00:39:56.33
>>It's a good note to close on.
00:39:56.33\00:39:57.53
>>Yeah, yeah it's an
amazing note to close on.
00:39:57.53\00:39:59.46
Then we'll come
right back and pursuing.
00:39:59.46\00:40:01.26
>>A light in Zambia is a moving
video documentary that traces
00:40:01.26\00:40:13.16
the stories of five amazing
African men and women who
00:40:13.16\00:40:16.36
encountered Christ through
the powerful media of gospel
00:40:16.36\00:40:19.73
literature.
00:40:19.73\00:40:20.76
To receive your free
copy call 1-877-585-1111.
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00:40:33.36\00:40:38.06
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97438.
00:40:46.30\00:40:49.46
Simply ask for the Zambia DVD.
00:40:49.46\00:41:03.36
>>Okay so we're breaking
down Genesis chapter 3 and we've
00:41:03.36\00:41:06.43
gotten through about verse 5.
00:41:06.43\00:41:08.50
It's in verse 6 that
the act of sin is committed.
00:41:08.50\00:41:11.80
And my point earlier and I think
you guys concur with this do you
00:41:11.80\00:41:17.86
see any holes in it is that the
sin problem is a composite of
00:41:17.86\00:41:20.43
issues.
00:41:20.43\00:41:21.70
It's not sufficient just to say
that they broke God's command
00:41:21.70\00:41:25.63
behaviorally bef--all the way
through verse 5 things are going
00:41:25.63\00:41:30.73
on in the psyche, in the
thinking, in the feeling process
00:41:30.73\00:41:35.53
toward God.
00:41:35.53\00:41:36.80
So what's happening here is that
the sin problem behaviorally is
00:41:36.80\00:41:39.26
predicated on the sin
problem beginning in the mind.
00:41:39.26\00:41:44.16
>>Psychologically.
00:41:44.16\00:41:45.46
>>Psychologically deception
regarding the character of God.
00:41:45.46\00:41:49.20
I mean why commit the act of
rebellion if you haven't changed
00:41:49.20\00:41:52.63
your mind about the
person you're sinning against.
00:41:52.63\00:41:55.86
>>Yeah.
00:41:55.86\00:41:56.76
>>Right.
00:41:56.76\00:41:57.86
>>I think that that is a
critical nuance that's often
00:41:57.86\00:41:59.63
missed when just the
behavioral aspect is emphasized.
00:41:59.63\00:42:01.93
The behavior doesn't happen
until a new and perverse and
00:42:01.93\00:42:07.73
inaccurate picture of God's
character has been implanted
00:42:07.73\00:42:10.23
into the mind.
00:42:10.23\00:42:11.50
And now it's okay to violate
a relationship with that being.
00:42:11.50\00:42:15.33
Because that being is
not being trust worthy.
00:42:15.33\00:42:17.73
>>Yeah, it's it's, it's further
reaching in fact when you
00:42:17.73\00:42:20.36
look--when you look at verse
5 think about this For God knows
00:42:20.36\00:42:22.66
the day you eat of it your eyes
will be open and you will be
00:42:22.66\00:42:26.23
like God.
00:42:26.23\00:42:27.20
Why do you need God
if you can be like God?
00:42:27.20\00:42:28.66
Why do we need God in a society
we can take care of all the
00:42:28.66\00:42:33.16
things we need to take care of
because we can be just like him.
00:42:33.16\00:42:35.80
If this
restriction is taken away.
00:42:35.80\00:42:38.73
If we were not limited by this
whole idea of religion and God
00:42:38.73\00:42:42.40
and someone that's bigger than
us and we can just recognize
00:42:42.40\00:42:45.53
that, you know.
00:42:45.53\00:42:47.10
We can, we can be just like him.
00:42:47.10\00:42:48.43
We don't need him.
00:42:48.43\00:42:49.36
>>We can be our own God.
00:42:49.36\00:42:50.30
>>Yeah and that's
what we see in society.
00:42:50.30\00:42:51.70
>>I love what C.S.
00:42:51.70\00:42:52.76
Lewis said I think
in problem of pain.
00:42:52.76\00:42:54.13
He said they wanted a corner in
the universe where they can say
00:42:54.13\00:42:56.80
to God this is our business.
00:42:56.80\00:42:58.83
You stay out of it.
00:42:58.83\00:43:00.70
And then he says
they wanted to be nouns.
00:43:00.70\00:43:02.53
But they would forever have to
be adjectives or something like
00:43:02.53\00:43:06.50
that.
00:43:06.50\00:43:07.33
>>Hmm
00:43:07.33\00:43:08.60
>>Which is powerful so I think
what I see here we're talking
00:43:08.60\00:43:09.83
about the psychology beyond
individual action is that there
00:43:09.83\00:43:13.43
is a desire for independence.
00:43:13.43\00:43:14.86
Isn't there.
00:43:14.86\00:43:16.63
So you're basically saying is
there's the craving in the human
00:43:16.63\00:43:19.10
heart for independence.
00:43:19.10\00:43:21.66
>>Mhm.
00:43:21.66\00:43:23.36
>>For my little corner in the
universe where this--God has no
00:43:23.36\00:43:26.36
business.
00:43:26.36\00:43:27.63
>>Something deception is Jeffrey
is it's I want independence from
00:43:27.63\00:43:30.83
a controlling, domineering God.
00:43:30.83\00:43:34.60
>>Right.
00:43:34.60\00:43:36.76
>>You see that?
00:43:36.76\00:43:37.80
>>Mhm.
00:43:37.80\00:43:38.86
>>It's I want independence
from a misconception.
00:43:38.86\00:43:41.10
>>Right.
00:43:41.10\00:43:41.96
>>Mhm.
00:43:41.96\00:43:43.16
>>So if God was known to
be the God that God really is.
00:43:43.16\00:43:44.90
A God of liberty and freedom
then the idea wouldn't even
00:43:44.90\00:43:50.03
arise in the human heart
that I want independence.
00:43:50.03\00:43:52.00
Because you're not even thinking
in terms of independence or me
00:43:52.00\00:43:56.13
and you segregated.
00:43:56.13\00:43:58.46
You want something from me
that I'm not willing to give but
00:43:58.46\00:44:01.00
you're extracting it from me.
00:44:01.00\00:44:02.20
That's a part of the lie.
00:44:02.20\00:44:03.93
>>You wouldn't desire
independence unless you felt
00:44:03.93\00:44:06.00
that that was being threatened.
00:44:06.00\00:44:08.76
Is basically what you're saying.
00:44:08.76\00:44:10.60
So in a--with a correct concept
of who God is there would be
00:44:10.60\00:44:13.46
no--no desire for that type of.
00:44:13.46\00:44:16.30
>>Right and you know why one
of the reasons why if you read
00:44:16.30\00:44:19.43
about this the whole fall of man
in Hebrews 2 you recognize that
00:44:19.43\00:44:22.26
when God created us
when he created the world.
00:44:22.26\00:44:25.60
He gave it to us.
00:44:25.60\00:44:26.73
He put everything
in subjection to us.
00:44:26.73\00:44:28.80
So God actually
gave us independence.
00:44:28.80\00:44:31.13
>>Oh that's good.
00:44:31.13\00:44:32.10
>>He came to visit,
how are things going?
00:44:32.10\00:44:35.00
How way your day?
00:44:35.00\00:44:35.90
How is it going
down her on earth?
00:44:35.90\00:44:36.90
How are all the
things that I have given you?
00:44:36.90\00:44:38.26
And we have this freedom
that was just outstanding.
00:44:38.26\00:44:41.10
I mean it was amazing
when you think about it.
00:44:41.10\00:44:43.20
And yet verse 8 says in
Hebrews 2 you put all things in
00:44:43.20\00:44:48.40
subjection under his feet in
that you put all things under
00:44:48.40\00:44:50.83
him.
00:44:50.83\00:44:51.83
You left nothing that
was not put under him.
00:44:51.83\00:44:53.66
But now we do not see
things all things put under him.
00:44:53.66\00:44:55.23
So what's happened is Satan has
come in and he's taken away all
00:44:55.23\00:44:58.06
that independence.
00:44:58.06\00:44:59.33
He's taken away all that liberty
that God actually gave us and he
00:44:59.33\00:45:01.36
did that by
misrepresenting who God was.
00:45:01.36\00:45:03.53
>>Yeah, yes.
00:45:03.53\00:45:05.40
>>It's very I love what you're
saying there because if you
00:45:05.40\00:45:08.90
genuinely try.
00:45:08.90\00:45:09.93
You have a teenage son.
00:45:09.93\00:45:11.16
>>No I don't.
00:45:11.16\00:45:12.50
>>No he's not teenage anymore.
00:45:12.50\00:45:13.73
>>He's 20.
00:45:13.73\00:45:14.43
>>He's 20 ok.
00:45:14.43\00:45:15.56
So your 20 year
old son or those of us.
00:45:15.56\00:45:17.30
>>Teenage girl.
00:45:17.30\00:45:18.60
>>I have a 10 and a 12.
00:45:18.60\00:45:19.86
But when your teenage son comes
and asks for the car keys that
00:45:19.86\00:45:20.96
requires freedom.
00:45:20.96\00:45:22.43
Right.
00:45:22.43\00:45:23.63
But if you trust them they
amount of freedom that you'll
00:45:23.63\00:45:27.23
give them is limitless.
00:45:27.23\00:45:28.40
>>Yes exactly.
00:45:28.40\00:45:29.33
>>So trust and
freedom go hand in hand.
00:45:29.33\00:45:30.50
God says hey I trust you.
00:45:30.50\00:45:32.70
Oh this garden this is--go, go.
00:45:32.70\00:45:34.80
>>Yeah, yeah Psalm 115 says the
heavens even the whole heavens
00:45:34.80\00:45:39.16
belong to the Lord.
00:45:39.16\00:45:40.43
But the earth h has
given to the children of men.
00:45:40.43\00:45:42.90
That's delegation language.
00:45:42.90\00:45:45.00
>>That's our place.
00:45:45.00\00:45:46.60
[Everyone talking at once]
00:45:46.60\00:45:47.83
>>Psalm 115 and so basically
God is saying I don't want a
00:45:47.83\00:45:50.63
micromanaging,
domineering control over you.
00:45:50.63\00:45:55.00
I'm giving you freedom.
00:45:55.00\00:45:56.36
But the expectation is that
that freedom will be used to the
00:45:56.36\00:46:01.86
healthy end
expanding liberty for others.
00:46:01.86\00:46:07.16
And the sin
problem shuts down liberty.
00:46:07.16\00:46:08.26
I think that's
what we're saying.
00:46:08.26\00:46:10.20
The sin problem
restricts freedom really.
00:46:10.20\00:46:12.66
It doesn't expand freedom.
00:46:12.66\00:46:16.30
When she eats of the
fruit immediately in verse 6 the
00:46:16.30\00:46:17.70
effect that follows
verse 7 their eyes were opened.
00:46:17.70\00:46:20.96
The eyes of them both,
Adam and Eve, were opened.
00:46:20.96\00:46:23.60
And they knew
that they were naked.
00:46:23.60\00:46:25.43
So they sewed fig leaves
together and made themselves
00:46:25.43\00:46:28.36
covering.
00:46:28.36\00:46:30.96
So what's happening there?
00:46:30.96\00:46:32.20
The immediate effect that
was promised in verse 5 doesn't
00:46:32.20\00:46:34.73
happen.
00:46:34.73\00:46:36.00
What happens is all the sudden
a whole new psychological and
00:46:36.00\00:46:39.50
spiritual phenomenon
enters in to the equation.
00:46:39.50\00:46:43.30
Suddenly they're experiencing
guilt, and shame and
00:46:43.30\00:46:45.86
self-consciousness.
00:46:45.86\00:46:47.13
The language, the eyes of them
both were opened and they knew
00:46:47.13\00:46:49.63
that they were naked is
referring back; it's modifying
00:46:49.63\00:46:52.70
what was said earlier.
00:46:52.70\00:46:54.33
Where is it?
00:46:54.33\00:46:55.46
>>Genesis 2:25
00:46:55.46\00:46:56.60
>>2:25 they were
naked and not ashamed.
00:46:56.60\00:46:58.96
So it's not like
they became naked.
00:46:58.96\00:47:01.30
They were already naked, right?
00:47:01.30\00:47:03.60
And then.
00:47:03.60\00:47:04.53
>>The shame is
associated with it.
00:47:04.53\00:47:06.80
>>Yeah now they
don't trust God anymore.
00:47:06.80\00:47:08.20
Now they're in
rebellion, in sin.
00:47:08.20\00:47:09.93
And all of the
sudden self-consciousness.
00:47:09.93\00:47:14.83
Now I see that I'm naked which
is a biblical way of saying they
00:47:14.83\00:47:16.70
began to experience
self-centeredness and the guilt
00:47:16.70\00:47:20.43
that is associated
with self-centeredness.
00:47:20.43\00:47:23.70
>>God then comes into the Garden
of Eden because it says in verse
00:47:23.70\00:47:27.60
8 they heard the sound.
00:47:27.60\00:47:28.70
Have we gotten to verse?
00:47:28.70\00:47:29.76
>>Well we read verse 7
that they made coverings.
00:47:29.76\00:47:32.00
>>Made coverings.
00:47:32.00\00:47:33.26
So verse 8 here's
where I was going.
00:47:33.26\00:47:35.23
They heard the sound of the Lord
God walking in the garden in the
00:47:35.23\00:47:37.43
cool of the day and Adam
and his wife hid themselves.
00:47:37.43\00:47:39.10
So clearly there's
a fear dimension here.
00:47:39.10\00:47:40.60
>>Yeah.
00:47:40.60\00:47:41.63
>>So, so they have
the experience of shame.
00:47:41.63\00:47:43.96
They're now suddenly self-aware
in a way that has a guilt
00:47:43.96\00:47:48.23
associated with it.
00:47:48.23\00:47:49.46
They then assume, incorrectly
that the shame that they're
00:47:49.46\00:47:54.60
feeling is actually a reflection
of God's attitude toward them
00:47:54.60\00:47:57.50
and they're afraid.
00:47:57.50\00:47:59.30
So their instinct is to flee
from the very one that made them
00:47:59.30\00:48:04.23
created them and had actually
entrusted the garden to them.
00:48:04.23\00:48:05.53
>>Somewhere in the bible I think
it's in Proverbs it says the
00:48:05.53\00:48:08.96
wicked flee when no one pursues.
00:48:08.96\00:48:10.73
>>I think part of this is
because their situation is in
00:48:10.73\00:48:14.80
context of what God had
said to them in Genesis 2.
00:48:14.80\00:48:17.03
In the day that you eat of that
tree of the fruit of knowledge
00:48:17.03\00:48:21.30
of good and evil
you are going to die.
00:48:21.30\00:48:22.90
And they didn't die.
00:48:22.90\00:48:25.53
I mean the serpent
said you won't die.
00:48:25.53\00:48:27.36
God said you will die.
00:48:27.36\00:48:28.90
They ate the fruit
and they didn't die.
00:48:28.90\00:48:30.50
So, so I can imagine that
they're thinking well if the
00:48:30.50\00:48:34.26
fruit didn't kill us
God certainly is or will.
00:48:34.26\00:48:36.20
>>Oh that's a powerful point.
00:48:36.20\00:48:39.53
>>You see what I'm saying?
00:48:39.53\00:48:40.80
So they're thinking, oh, there
is a promise that God has made
00:48:40.80\00:48:45.10
here toward us and the
serpent was probably right.
00:48:45.10\00:48:47.26
Their experience is telling them
that the serpent was right the
00:48:47.26\00:48:50.70
fruit didn't kill us.
00:48:50.70\00:48:52.03
>>I got to jump in there though
and Say God had not said, and I
00:48:52.03\00:48:55.60
know this is not
what you're saying.
00:48:55.60\00:48:57.16
But this just goes to
show how the deception worked.
00:48:57.16\00:49:00.93
God didn't say in the day that
you eat thereof I will surely
00:49:00.93\00:49:02.26
kill you.
00:49:02.26\00:49:03.00
>>Exactly.
00:49:03.00\00:49:03.80
>>He said the
day you eat thereof
00:49:03.80\00:49:05.10
>>Exactly you will surely die.
00:49:05.10\00:49:06.66
>>I know I get it but the
deception is they think he's out
00:49:06.66\00:49:09.03
to get us.
00:49:09.03\00:49:09.83
>>Yes.
00:49:09.83\00:49:11.00
>>So they--the feelings of
shame and guilt that they're
00:49:11.00\00:49:13.80
experiencing they incorrectly
assume are a reflection of God's
00:49:13.80\00:49:16.16
attitude towards them.
00:49:16.16\00:49:17.10
>>Verse 8 says that
they hid themselves.
00:49:17.10\00:49:18.53
What's happening in the context
is who are they hiding from?
00:49:18.53\00:49:22.00
Not each other
they're hiding together.
00:49:22.00\00:49:23.43
[Laughter]
00:49:23.43\00:49:24.66
>>So Adam and Eve were both
in the bushes hiding together.
00:49:24.66\00:49:27.36
They're hiding from God which
says that their whole perception
00:49:27.36\00:49:30.93
of God's character has been
so distorted that now they're
00:49:30.93\00:49:33.53
expecting things from
God that aren't even there.
00:49:33.53\00:49:36.40
>>Yesss.
00:49:36.40\00:49:37.53
>>That's right.
00:49:37.53\00:49:38.80
>>They're not even there when
God finally does come to them.
00:49:38.80\00:49:41.16
He doesn't come pouncing
and snorting and pointing the
00:49:41.16\00:49:43.40
finger.
00:49:43.40\00:49:44.10
He comes
00:49:44.10\00:49:44.76
>>to announce good news.
00:49:44.76\00:49:46.63
>>to announce good news
00:49:46.63\00:49:48.06
>>He comes to announce that a
way of escape has been made from
00:49:48.06\00:49:50.26
the predicament
which they find themselves.
00:49:50.26\00:49:52.46
>> I think it's a bit weird that
they're going to hide in bushes
00:49:52.46\00:49:56.20
behind a tree.
00:49:56.20\00:49:57.13
Like you would think.
00:49:57.13\00:49:58.26
>>Well there were no buildings
to hide in at that point
00:49:58.26\00:50:01.00
Jeffrey.
00:50:01.00\00:50:02.20
>>I'm wondering why they're
hiding behind a tree period.
00:50:02.20\00:50:02.90
I mean you would think.
00:50:02.90\00:50:04.06
>>verses?
00:50:04.06\00:50:05.30
>>verses I'm just saying this
is God this is Almighty God.
00:50:05.30\00:50:07.96
>>They're hiding in two ways.
00:50:07.96\00:50:09.76
>>So I'm saying
it has to be deeper.
00:50:09.76\00:50:11.10
>>First of all they're trying to
hide in the sense of making the
00:50:11.10\00:50:14.00
covering.
00:50:14.00\00:50:15.00
They're trying to
hide their nakedness.
00:50:15.00\00:50:16.76
They're trying
to hide their guilt.
00:50:16.76\00:50:18.33
They're trying to compensate for
the problem they sense is going
00:50:18.33\00:50:20.76
on.
00:50:20.76\00:50:21.46
They feel condemned.
00:50:21.46\00:50:23.60
And they're trying to ameliorate
that sense of condemnation.
00:50:23.60\00:50:25.96
Secondly they hide in the trees
because it's the irrational
00:50:25.96\00:50:31.70
thing to do.
00:50:31.70\00:50:32.63
>>that's my point.
00:50:32.63\00:50:34.36
That's where I'm going.
00:50:34.36\00:50:35.36
>>Well didn't you hear
the verse I was quoting.
00:50:35.36\00:50:36.83
I don't know where it is.
00:50:36.83\00:50:37.76
>>Proverbs 28:1.
00:50:37.76\00:50:38.66
>>The wicked pursue when
00:50:38.66\00:50:39.93
>>no one is
00:50:39.93\00:50:40.76
>>the wicked
00:50:40.76\00:50:41.73
>>flee
00:50:41.73\00:50:43.16
>>flee when no one pursues.
00:50:43.16\00:50:44.50
That's the phobia
of the sin problem.
00:50:44.50\00:50:46.23
You're assuming ok
here comes God let's hide.
00:50:46.23\00:50:51.70
It's pointless of
course it's irrational.
00:50:51.70\00:50:53.16
>>And so what
I'm saying is that.
00:50:53.16\00:50:56.60
>>how do you hide
from an omnipresent God.
00:50:56.60\00:50:57.93
>>That's the point.
00:50:57.93\00:50:58.96
That's a powerful
picture of the world today.
00:50:58.96\00:51:00.16
I mean the way we live
our lives it is so irrational.
00:51:00.16\00:51:01.96
And it even goes contrary to
what we already know is reality
00:51:01.96\00:51:05.20
and we go contrary to reality.
00:51:05.20\00:51:08.26
They're hiding from God.
00:51:08.26\00:51:10.60
It's impossible
to hide from God.
00:51:10.60\00:51:12.03
So I think that's another
dimension of the psychology of
00:51:12.03\00:51:15.70
sins impact on the human
psyche and the human experience.
00:51:15.70\00:51:18.93
>>The irrationality is born out
of the fact that they are now
00:51:18.93\00:51:22.20
experiencing a battery of
emotions that God never intended
00:51:22.20\00:51:25.73
or created them to experience.
00:51:25.73\00:51:28.63
>>And they don't
know how to react.
00:51:28.63\00:51:30.40
For the first time.
00:51:30.40\00:51:31.66
I mean we're very familiar to
what of what shame feels like.
00:51:31.66\00:51:34.13
I mean I know I'm.
00:51:34.13\00:51:35.60
>>How bout that
00:51:35.60\00:51:37.16
>>I'm very well familiar of
what shame and guilt feels like.
00:51:37.16\00:51:40.06
>>That Fernando
Ortega song that.
00:51:40.06\00:51:41.83
>>Which one?
00:51:41.83\00:51:42.63
>>Remember me not my shame.
00:51:42.63\00:51:43.70
>>Mmm
00:51:43.70\00:51:44.83
>>That, that every time
I hear that song it just.
00:51:44.83\00:51:46.43
>>Just imagine these
people that for the first time.
00:51:46.43\00:51:49.16
>>Ever.
00:51:49.16\00:51:50.43
>>Ever they're experiencing what
it feels like to be ashamed and
00:51:50.43\00:51:56.80
to feel guilty.
00:51:56.80\00:51:58.66
And I love what you said.
00:51:58.66\00:52:00.56
They're just like freaking out.
00:52:00.56\00:52:02.10
Because they've
never felt that before.
00:52:02.10\00:52:03.93
They don't even know what to do.
00:52:03.93\00:52:06.53
So they go hiding.
00:52:06.53\00:52:07.53
>>So these are
survival mechanisms.
00:52:07.53\00:52:08.86
>>Coping.
00:52:08.86\00:52:10.03
>>Coping mechanisms they're
breaking down mentally and
00:52:10.03\00:52:12.23
emotionally feeling guilty.
00:52:12.23\00:52:14.50
They hide from God
because they're afraid of him.
00:52:14.50\00:52:16.96
God comes and
says where are you?
00:52:16.96\00:52:18.46
Obviously in the story the
tone of his voice is not as
00:52:18.46\00:52:21.06
threatening as
they were expecting.
00:52:21.06\00:52:22.96
It's not threatening at all.
00:52:22.96\00:52:24.60
They immediately present
themselves before the Lord.
00:52:24.60\00:52:26.56
They come before God.
00:52:26.56\00:52:27.83
And they say well the reason we
were hiding this because we were
00:52:27.83\00:52:29.96
afraid because we were naked.
00:52:29.96\00:52:31.73
And then God says who
told you you were naked?
00:52:31.73\00:52:33.56
I mean think of that.
00:52:33.56\00:52:35.13
>>Mhm.
00:52:35.13\00:52:36.13
>>Who told you you were naked.
00:52:36.13\00:52:37.23
What is God saying in that?
00:52:37.23\00:52:38.36
Who told you you were naked?
00:52:38.36\00:52:39.53
Not me.
00:52:39.53\00:52:40.60
The implication is is
that what you think of me?
00:52:40.60\00:52:48.26
Is that how you
expected me to approach you?
00:52:48.26\00:52:49.96
You're feeling shame.
00:52:49.96\00:52:51.66
You're feeling condemnation
but it's not coming from me.
00:52:51.66\00:52:55.76
>>Mhm.
00:52:55.76\00:52:57.00
>>These are things that are
going on inside your heart and
00:52:57.00\00:52:58.83
mind because of
what does he say?
00:52:58.83\00:53:01.56
Did you eat?
00:53:01.56\00:53:02.73
>>of the tree.
00:53:02.73\00:53:03.80
>>Of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil?
00:53:03.80\00:53:06.60
The forbidden tree.
00:53:06.60\00:53:07.86
God immediately points to the
sin itself as the source of all
00:53:07.86\00:53:11.16
these new battery of negative
emotions they're experiencing.
00:53:11.16\00:53:15.33
>>What's amazing to me is the
first response that Adam gives
00:53:15.33\00:53:18.66
is a clear indication of
the complete depravity of human
00:53:18.66\00:53:23.33
nature right at the fall.
00:53:23.33\00:53:25.80
He says the woman.
00:53:25.80\00:53:28.10
The woman.
00:53:28.10\00:53:29.10
The woman.
00:53:29.10\00:53:29.96
It's
self-justification immediately.
00:53:29.96\00:53:31.76
>>Blame casting.
00:53:31.76\00:53:33.13
>>Blame casting
the woman you gave me.
00:53:33.13\00:53:35.36
She's the one.
00:53:35.36\00:53:36.33
>>And it goes
perfectly with what we said.
00:53:36.33\00:53:38.16
The instance that they sever
that connection and relationship
00:53:38.16\00:53:41.16
with God it immediately
has social implications.
00:53:41.16\00:53:45.50
So the first recorded
instance of a--Christ.
00:53:45.50\00:53:50.30
>>Yeah the love selfless.
00:53:50.30\00:53:52.10
>>Yeah it's the very second
or moment after they break their
00:53:52.10\00:53:55.60
connection with God and so that
goes back with the whole first
00:53:55.60\00:53:58.20
commandment, second commandment.
00:53:58.20\00:54:00.20
Love to God you break that.
00:54:00.20\00:54:01.60
>>The vertical the horizontal.
00:54:01.60\00:54:04.50
>>Well that's why the bible.
00:54:04.50\00:54:06.46
We're talking
about the sin problem.
00:54:06.46\00:54:08.86
The bible defines sin in First
John 3:4 as transgression of the
00:54:08.86\00:54:11.63
law.
00:54:11.63\00:54:13.30
And then in Romans 13:10 says
that basically the law is love,
00:54:13.30\00:54:16.16
right?
00:54:16.16\00:54:17.40
So when we're defining sin
in the fall of mankind we're
00:54:17.40\00:54:21.20
basically saying that sin is the
fall of mankind is constituted
00:54:21.20\00:54:24.80
in anti-love.
00:54:24.80\00:54:27.06
It's a violated
00:54:27.06\00:54:28.50
>>Say that last part again.
00:54:28.50\00:54:29.93
Say that last part again.
00:54:29.93\00:54:31.13
>>Sin is defined biblically
as transgression of the law.
00:54:31.13\00:54:33.80
The law is love.
00:54:33.80\00:54:35.23
Right.
00:54:35.23\00:54:36.23
Romans 13:10.
00:54:36.23\00:54:38.76
>>Okay got it.
00:54:38.76\00:54:39.96
>>Therefore sin is any thought,
feeling or action that is
00:54:39.96\00:54:40.86
contrary to love.
00:54:40.86\00:54:42.10
It's all anti-love behavior
whether it's mental, emotional
00:54:42.10\00:54:45.03
or actionable behavior.
00:54:45.03\00:54:47.60
>>That's why Romans 3:23 says
that it's falling short of the
00:54:47.60\00:54:50.40
glory of God.
00:54:50.40\00:54:51.36
>>Yeah.
00:54:51.36\00:54:52.63
>>Exodus 33:34 the glory of God
is revelation is character of
00:54:52.63\00:54:55.00
who he is.
00:54:55.00\00:54:55.80
God is love.
00:54:55.80\00:54:57.03
And you look at that in the
context of the fall in Hebrews.
00:54:57.03\00:54:59.36
Hebrews talks about how
everything is put in subjection.
00:54:59.36\00:55:02.10
Now we don't see
everything in subjection.
00:55:02.10\00:55:04.20
But we see Jesus who is made a
little lower than the angels for
00:55:04.20\00:55:08.13
the suffering death.
00:55:08.13\00:55:09.40
So Jesus came to redeem to take
away the restriction which is
00:55:09.40\00:55:13.03
death.
00:55:13.03\00:55:14.30
Ultimately the restriction is
death, of everything summarized.
00:55:14.30\00:55:16.86
And then it goes on and this is
really, really powerful verse 10
00:55:16.86\00:55:20.80
of Hebrews 2 says for it was
fitting for him, Jesus, for whom
00:55:20.80\00:55:26.40
are all things and by whom are
all things in bringing many sons
00:55:26.40\00:55:29.40
to glory.
00:55:29.40\00:55:30.40
>>Yeah.
00:55:30.40\00:55:32.00
>>Whoa.
00:55:32.00\00:55:33.06
>>He's bringing back to glory.
00:55:33.06\00:55:33.90
We've fallen short of the glory.
00:55:33.90\00:55:35.10
We've fallen
short of the character.
00:55:35.10\00:55:36.53
We've fallen short of the love.
00:55:36.53\00:55:37.50
We've fallen
short of selflessness.
00:55:37.50\00:55:38.66
Adam is pointing to Eve.
00:55:38.66\00:55:40.33
Eve, by the way follows Adam,
follows suit, perfect pattern.
00:55:40.33\00:55:44.36
You pointed to me.
00:55:44.36\00:55:45.66
I'm pointing to
00:55:45.66\00:55:46.30
>>God
00:55:46.30\00:55:47.10
>>the serpent.
00:55:47.10\00:55:48.16
>>and ultimately.
00:55:48.16\00:55:49.20
>>Ultimately to God.
00:55:49.20\00:55:50.20
>>to God.
00:55:50.20\00:55:51.40
>>It was the serpent
that you put in the garden.
00:55:51.40\00:55:53.86
>>Yes But Jesus comes and he's
bringing us back to glory, back
00:55:53.86\00:55:56.86
to glory, back to glory.
00:55:56.86\00:55:58.00
>>You know I've got my
little doll here or figurine and
00:55:58.00\00:56:00.30
there's something that we just
have to say here and this whole
00:56:00.30\00:56:03.96
conversation that we're
having is predicated on a basic
00:56:03.96\00:56:06.56
assumption that we're going to
get into our next conversation.
00:56:06.56\00:56:08.63
And that is that Adam and Eve
were very unlike this figurine
00:56:08.63\00:56:14.90
that I have here which I can
just manipulate in any way that
00:56:14.90\00:56:17.26
I want.
00:56:17.26\00:56:20.93
This being is not free to be in
the position that it wants to be
00:56:20.93\00:56:24.00
in.
00:56:24.00\00:56:25.06
It's going to be in the
position that I put it in.
00:56:25.06\00:56:26.86
>>Yeah.
00:56:26.86\00:56:28.00
>>But the whole
story--everything that we've
00:56:28.00\00:56:29.56
talked about up to this point is
built on the broad foundation of
00:56:29.56\00:56:32.73
an assumed freedom.
00:56:32.73\00:56:34.26
In other words he
could have or could not have.
00:56:34.26\00:56:37.93
He could have been loyal or not
been loyal which in my mind is
00:56:37.93\00:56:41.13
not only the
answer, which it is.
00:56:41.13\00:56:43.76
It also raises a
series of questions.
00:56:43.76\00:56:45.76
Number one why did God
make mankind like this?
00:56:45.76\00:56:48.96
>>Rather than another way.
00:56:48.96\00:56:51.80
>>Rather than another way.
00:56:51.80\00:56:52.93
Why not like this.
00:56:52.93\00:56:54.16
Well I think that we're all
quite happy that we're not like
00:56:54.16\00:56:56.06
this.
00:56:56.06\00:56:57.33
But it does sort of raise the
significant question if God made
00:56:57.33\00:57:01.00
us with this kind of what you
might call dangerous freedom was
00:57:01.00\00:57:03.83
that the best way to do it?
00:57:03.83\00:57:07.06
Now I think the
answer to that is yes.
00:57:07.06\00:57:08.53
But if we don't if we
don't begin to engage that
00:57:08.53\00:57:10.83
conversation.
00:57:10.83\00:57:11.70
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:57:11.70\00:57:12.96
>>Then we're gonna fall short
of the real intent of Genesis 3.
00:57:12.96\00:57:15.36
>>Yeah
00:57:15.36\00:57:16.10
>>Mhm
00:57:16.10\00:57:16.90
>>That's where we're gonna go.
00:57:16.90\00:57:18.10
>>Which is the abuse of freedom
and the appropriate use of
00:57:18.10\00:57:19.83
freedom.
00:57:19.83\00:57:21.46
>>We have like 40 seconds left
and since you used this guy I'm
00:57:21.46\00:57:23.76
just gonna say here's the
posture of the fall of mankind.
00:57:23.76\00:57:25.70
He's in running motion.
00:57:25.70\00:57:28.36
He's in shame motion
and he's in blame motion.
00:57:28.36\00:57:32.46
He's pointing the finger.
00:57:32.46\00:57:35.83
>>Mhm
00:57:35.83\00:57:36.53
>>He's running from God.
00:57:36.53\00:57:38.30
He's ashamed.
00:57:38.30\00:57:39.86
That's the fall of mankind.
00:57:39.86\00:57:41.13
>>Experiencing emotions that God
never created him or intended
00:57:41.13\00:57:44.20
for him to experience.
00:57:44.20\00:57:45.46
And we see all of these coping
mechanisms that are just pushing
00:57:45.46\00:57:49.00
them further and
further and further from the
00:57:49.00\00:57:51.43
>>And passion for independence
that actually enslaves.
00:57:51.43\00:57:54.13
>>Mmm, mmm
00:57:54.13\00:57:55.73
>>Say it--say it again a
passion for independence.
00:57:55.73\00:57:58.06
>>That actually enslaves.
00:57:58.06\00:58:00.20
>>Yeah >That's
Genesis 3, that's Genesis 3.
00:58:00.20\00:58:04.66
>>Hey we're gonna just we're
gonna be really really blessed
00:58:04.66\00:58:07.16
to get into the next
part of this discussion.
00:58:07.16\00:58:08.83
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