Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000003
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00:07 [Music]
00:17 I'm thoroughly enjoying these conversations--I don't 00:22 know about you guys. 00:24 >>Jeffrey just said a moment ago that--that--what did you say? 00:26 This feels like home. 00:27 >>Yeah it feels like home. 00:29 >>Like we're supposed to be. 00:30 >>At the table. 00:31 >>Yeah love it table talk. 00:32 >>And it's incredible to think that God has made us in such a 00:36 way that we can think thoughts and then articulate them to one 00:40 another and I can share something with you. 00:43 You can share something with me. 00:45 And one of the great things about this is--is new thoughts 00:49 emerge out of this sharing of thoughts back and forth. 00:52 And we grow just by interaction. 00:55 We're hoping that lots of other people would join this 00:58 conversation as well. 01:00 And, and just take in these things that make our hearts just 01:05 soar with excitement. 01:07 This is the subject matter that really matters most. 01:12 We're looking at very basic things and I don't know about 01:15 you but in the previous two conversations that we've had it 01:19 turns out that the basic things are the deep things. 01:24 >>That's right. 01:26 >>Sometimes people think, you know. 01:27 we need to get into subject matter that is, ya know, way 01:29 beyond the elementary truths of human nature and God's character 01:33 and uh there's deeper stuff out there. 01:35 I had somebody say to me recently, "ya know, you guys, 01:38 you need to talk about...you need to talk about the deep 01:41 stuff like, like, ya know... 01:44 >>Bible prophecy. 01:45 >>Bible prophecy. 01:46 Masonic order and what people are up to in the dark circles. 01:49 >>Conspiracy theories. 01:51 >>Yeah all that stuff. 01:52 That's not the deep stuff. 01:53 That's the shallow stuff. 01:54 And that stuff, you know, it's up for grabs. 01:58 What's true? 01:59 What's not? 02:00 Not bible prophecy, of course. 02:01 That's certain. 02:02 But we're talking about things that might seem elementary. 02:06 But we began just talking about, well, what is the bible. 02:09 What is the bible? 02:11 >>That's hardly elementary. 02:12 >>It is the word of God communicated to us in this 02:16 written form. 02:17 Then we said what the bible is about? 02:18 And we discovered that God's word is about his character, his 02:23 love and the story that's playing out. 02:25 >>And nothing is deeper than that. 02:26 >>Nothing is deeper than that. 02:28 >>That's right. 02:29 >>In fact that's bible prophecy too. 02:30 Bible prophecy is really all about Jesus. 02:32 The first prophecy of the bible is about Jesus. 02:35 >>That's right. 02:36 >>It's about the enmity that Jesus put between us and Satan 02:38 so all of bible prophecy is really this. 02:40 Basically it's God. 02:43 Who is God? 02:44 Why did God make us? 02:45 Why are we here? 02:46 That's what bible prophecy. 02:47 >>It shows that history is directional. 02:49 We're going somewhere. 02:50 God has a plan. 02:51 >>It is true though as Preachers and Teachers we've all had the 02:54 experience ofú preaching a great message on the gospel around the 02:56 love of God. 02:58 The goodness of God and had somebody come up and say yeah, 02:59 yeah, yeah, yeah--we get all that. 03:01 What's there--you know, as if we've moved beyond that now 03:05 let's get to the--it's really unfortunate. 03:06 But what we're seeing here--what you're saying Ty is that, is 03:09 that--we're having what? 03:11 Forty-five minute conversations, fifty minute conversations and 03:14 we're just beginning to scratch the surface of the surface of 03:16 the surface. 03:17 There's so much depth below this. 03:19 I want to say something too so that those that are listening 03:22 into the conversation can appreciate. 03:24 And I think for us as well. 03:25 These are the things we talk about when the cameras aren't 03:27 on. 03:28 >>Mhm. 03:29 >>Right the cameras are rolling and we're having a conversation. 03:31 But you turn those cameras off in every instance the 03:33 conversation just keeps going. 03:35 If Ty's over to my house or James is over to my house or I'm 03:37 over to your house or Jeffrey. 03:38 What are we sitting down--we're talking about the goodness of 03:41 God, the love of God, scripture. 03:42 Not that we don't also talk about other things. 03:44 But that this is a saturative thing. 03:47 This is an authentic thing. 03:48 This is what's on our mind. 03:49 This is our passion. 03:50 >>Literally everything is spiritual. 03:53 This segregation between spiritual and secular is a false 03:59 segregation. 04:00 It's nowhere in the bible. 04:01 According to the bible all of reality is spiritual reality. 04:04 And it's either good spiritual stuff is going on or bad 04:10 spiritual stuff is going on. 04:11 So, the fact is we're talking about--we're conversing about 04:15 things that matter deeply in relation to God in all of our 04:20 relationships as human beings to everything we do, our work, our 04:24 education, our marriages, our relationships with our kids. 04:28 Everything is impacted by our perception of God's character. 04:32 >>That's right. 04:33 >>So what are we talking about today? 04:34 >Yeah. 04:35 >>Well we had a progression of thought. 04:36 We began with basically saying what is the bible? 04:38 We moved on to what and who is God? 04:40 And I think the logical next step is creation. 04:44 >>Of course. 04:45 >>We talked about God and. 04:47 >>God's original plan. 04:48 >>David brought out the point that, you know, if you just draw 04:50 a line and you put another line, a vertical line on the 04:55 horizontal line, you say all of this represents eternity past, 04:57 precreation. 05:00 Where there's just God and God alone. 05:01 And then the line this side is creation. 05:03 And we talked about well what was going on here? 05:06 What was God like for creation? 05:07 Well check this out. 05:09 At some point God said--there was a conversation where God 05:13 said let us make man in our own image. 05:18 That's God conversing within the Godhead and say hey let's do 05:22 something. 05:24 >>Elohim. 05:25 >>Yeah, let's do something. 05:26 What are we gonna do? 05:27 Create. 05:28 >So can I, can I just read that? 05:29 >Sure. 05:30 >>So Genesis 1:26 it say's let us make man in our image 05:33 according to our likeness. 05:35 Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds 05:38 of the air, and over the cattle over all the earth over every 05:41 creeping thing that creeps on the earth. 05:43 So God created man in his own image and the image of God he 05:45 created them, male and female. 05:47 He created them then God blessed them then God said to them be 05:50 fruitful and multiply, fill the earth, subdue it, have dominion 05:52 over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, over every 05:55 living thing that moves on the earth. 05:56 >>Fabulous. 05:58 >>So I love the idea there, Ty, you're saying there's a 05:59 conversation that's taking place here between the Father, Son and 06:02 Holy Spirit. 06:03 There's a conversation within the Godhead, Elohim. 06:06 Hey let's make man in our image. 06:09 Those are all plural pronouns. 06:10 Us is plural pronoun. 06:11 Our is plural possessive pronoun. 06:12 Them, them is a plural pronoun. 06:16 The whole thing is wrapped in plurality. 06:18 >>So God who is an us and an our creates a them. 06:21 It's not that God is saying let I will create him. 06:27 Or I will create her, singular. 06:29 It's amazing this relational God creates relationship. 06:33 >>It's necessary because God is love. 06:34 We established that in a different conversation. 06:37 >>Oh pull that out-necessary. 06:38 >>Because God is love. 06:40 It's necessary for there to be some sort of plurality. 06:43 Because love can't exist as a singular thing. 06:47 >>An isolation. 06:48 >>Yeah, it's isolation to anything else. 06:50 There has to be the receiving end of things. 06:52 And so God being a community in of himself his creation reflects 06:57 that community so he creates a race that's also capable of-of 07:02 love. 07:03 >>But you said it's also, it's necessary. 07:05 It wasn't optional with God, really. 07:09 I mean imagine that you could play the violin or the cello at 07:14 a virtuoso level and choosing simply to never do it. 07:18 >>Mhm. 07:20 >>You see what I'm saying. 07:22 >>Mhm. 07:23 >>God has all this creative capacity. 07:24 He's going to express it. 07:26 He's going to create. 07:28 So we could say God is not only creator but just a little fine, 07:34 nuance of a change, God is creative. 07:36 >>Absolutely. 07:38 >>Isn't he? 07:40 >>Certainly. 07:41 >>Could I just read a great little quotation? 07:42 This is a quotation that I have come back to again and again in 07:47 my own understanding of who and what God is. 07:49 And it's actually written by a Christian fellow by the name of 07:52 Millard Erickson. 07:54 And he writes this--He says if reality is fundamentally 07:58 physical. 07:59 Then the primary force binding it together is electromagnetic. 08:03 If however, reality is fundamentally social, then the 08:07 most powerful constituting force is that which binds persons 08:10 together namely love. 08:12 >>I love that statement. 08:13 >>So let me just put a little flesh on that, you know, we've 08:17 got these magnets at the table for us to sort of play with. 08:19 But it's a good illustration. 08:22 What Erickson is saying is that if reality at its most basic is 08:24 just atoms and molecules in motion. 08:27 Then the most powerful force in the universe that's keeping 08:30 everything together is electromagnetism. 08:32 Right? 08:34 It's just; it's the thing that keeps the proton and neutron in 08:36 the nucleus of the atom. 08:37 It's just chk. 08:39 It's electromagnetic. 08:40 >> It's purely physical. 08:41 >>It's purely physical. 08:42 He says, but if reality is fundamentally not physical but 08:44 social right? 08:45 As scripture reveals, Father, Son and Holy Spirit as a 08:47 relational, social, familial entity he says then the most 08:52 powerful, constituting, binding force in the world is love. 08:57 And isn't that true? 08:59 I mean that is the thing--life is--relationships are the stuff 09:03 of which life is made. 09:04 >>I knew this at a very early age, personally. 09:06 Um I--this is a little weird to share this. 09:09 But it just came into my mind. 09:11 Um somebody asked me recently--I don't know if you've ever done 09:15 this exercise. 09:16 But somebody said what is the very first thing that you ever 09:19 wrote to somebody else? 09:22 Going all the way back in your memory-a little kid or teenager. 09:26 What's the very first thing? 09:27 >>I can't remember that. 09:29 >>No, seriously someone asked me this and my first thought was, 09:31 you know, I don't know. 09:32 And I began to think what was the first thing I ever wrote to 09:35 another human being. 09:37 And it just popped in my mind a memory like yesterday. 09:40 And it was this--as you guys know because you know me that I 09:44 grew up in a very, very abusive home. 09:46 I grew up just surrounded by anger and rage. 09:49 My mom was the--was just the punching bag for a step-father. 09:55 And he beat her up a lot. 09:56 Well the thing is, is that there were times when we would wake up 10:01 in the morning, as kids getting ready to go to school. 10:05 There were four of us and I'd go in the bathroom and he was 10:08 already gone for work. 10:10 And he had written on the mirror with her lipstick I love you. 10:16 And then he's gone. 10:18 Well he'd just beaten her up the night before. 10:20 And this is his way of, I don't know, making up or trying to 10:24 persuade here to stay or whatever. 10:25 Over and over again as a little boy I'd wake up knowing that she 10:28 had been beaten the night before. 10:32 Listening to her scream in the night. 10:33 Wake up as a little kid, go in the bathroom--I love you in 10:36 lipstick written across the mirror. 10:39 And when somebody asked me what's the first thing you ever 10:41 wrote to another human being? 10:43 Just in a flat--I didn't know the first few minutes--what did 10:46 I write, you know. 10:47 And then it just came to me--I remember the first thing I ever 10:51 wrote with my own hand as a little boy was one morning I 10:55 went in there and there the words were again. 10:57 I love you. 10:59 And here's the weird thing, I was just a little kid. 11:00 So I couldn't get any more elaborate than this. 11:02 But maybe, maybe it was elaborate. 11:03 I took her lipstick and I just scribbled it all out. 11:07 And then I wrote in my own hand with her lipstick under I love 11:12 you. 11:13 I mean it was the same words. 11:16 >>Yeah, yeah, yeah. 11:17 >>It was the same words. 11:18 >>How old were you? 11:19 >>Like eight. 11:20 Different person. 11:21 Different context. 11:22 My meaning of the word love was definitely different than his. 11:26 You know, and I thought it was weird when they asked me that 11:28 question that I scribbled it out and just wrote the same thing 11:31 again. 11:32 You know, my mom went in there, I don't know what she was 11:33 thinking. 11:34 But I was basically saying no you don't. 11:36 But I do. 11:37 >>hmmm. 11:38 >>And. 11:39 >>Beautiful. 11:40 >>Yeah that I think what we're getting at here is God in 11:44 Genesis is creating a space and he's filling that space. 11:50 Our home was a space and it was filled with bad stuff. 11:53 God in Genesis was creating a space. 11:55 >>A social space. 11:56 >>A social space with good stuff. 11:58 And if you know you guys are familiar with that concept. 12:02 And I'd like to just flush that out of Genesis chapter one. 12:05 You've got a progression here in Genesis one of God doing 12:09 something. 12:11 Actually it's written in a poetic form. 12:12 In the poetic form of a chiastic structure. 12:15 Can be a v. 12:16 Can be an a. 12:18 Can be, it's just like a mountain basically. 12:20 You're climbing this side of the mountain. 12:23 You're climbing this side of the mountain. 12:24 You have a pentacle point. 12:25 And in Genesis one and two you have this basic progression 12:27 where God creates a space and fills a space with good things. 12:31 He creates a space. 12:33 He fills the space with good things. 12:34 And the way the poem goes is he--he creates on day one. 12:38 He just creates the sky, basically. 12:43 And creating the day and the night. 12:46 Then he fills is with the sun, moon and stars on day four. 12:49 Then. 12:51 >>So you're saying there's correspondence between day one 12:54 and day four? 12:55 >>And you'll see this well you do see this but here's the 12:59 thing. 13:00 Then he creates on day two the sea and the sky, right? 13:03 >>Mhm. 13:04 >>And then on day five he later on fills it with fish and birds. 13:08 >>He's a painter? 13:09 >>Yeah. 13:10 >>He's painting a picture. 13:11 >>And then he creates the land on day three. 13:13 And then he comes--he's come to the conclusion on day six he 13:17 fills the land with the animals and man. 13:20 And here's the cool thing. 13:22 He comes to the seventh day and he just creates a sacred space 13:24 of time and fills it with his fellowshipping presence. 13:28 And that's the Sabbath. 13:30 That's the seventh day which is the pinnacle of the creation. 13:34 So in other words, if you look at it this way, everything that 13:37 God's making and creating in the creation account is merging 13:42 toward one point. 13:44 And that point is fellowshp. 13:45 >>That's what I was just going to say. 13:47 It's a relationship not just with God Certainly with God 13:50 because he fills the Sabbath time with his own presence. 13:54 But it's also a time for Adam and Eve to bask in the rela--in 14:00 fact that would have been the first full day that Adam and Eve 14:02 would have experienced was the seventh day, Sabbath. 14:04 They're created on the sixth day. 14:05 And the first full day is the Sabbath, so as they're 14:08 learning--so who are you and what are--there's another one of 14:12 me. 14:13 Call it that Adam had named all--according to the story Adam 14:16 had named all of the other animals and at the end he's a 14:19 little dejected because he says there's--you know, I don't feel 14:22 quite the bonding with the hippopotamus or giraffe or 14:25 whatever. 14:26 [Laughter] 14:27 >>But then he goes into the deep sleep and God makes him. 14:30 >>The woman. 14:31 >>The woman and ah this is now bone of my bone and flesh of my 14:33 flesh so their first full day to explore that relationship right? 14:37 On every level physical, emotional, spiritual, just to 14:40 get to know one another. 14:42 That's the Sabbath. 14:44 >>Yeah that's--the Sabbath was hang out time with God. 14:46 >>Yeah and I really like that whole idea of the magnetism 14:49 verses the social--the love in Colossians chapter one verse 17 14:54 it's talking about this. 14:55 >>That's exactly the verse I was thinking about. 14:58 >>Really? 14:59 >>Yeah. 15:00 >>You were thinking Colossians 1:17? 15:01 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah I know the verse. 15:02 >>It talks about how we were held together by God. 15:06 And it says he is before all things that is creation. 15:10 He is before creation and in him all things hold together. 15:15 God is love. 15:17 >>God is love. 15:18 >>First John four verse eight. 15:19 So God says so in love all things hold together. 15:22 Love holds everything together. 15:23 It's not just this magnetism. 15:25 It's not just these. 15:26 >>Physical properties. 15:27 >>Yeah. 15:29 >>I know you're a King James guy. 15:30 I've always love the King James there yeah in him all things. 15:32 I love the King James too. 15:33 I love it. 15:34 In him all things consist. 15:36 That's such a great word. 15:38 It's from the word consistency. 15:40 It's a thing that binds it together. 15:43 >>Even the laws of nature there. 15:44 It's even beyond the spiritual realm. 15:46 Because when we speak of love and God is love normally we're 15:48 thinking in the spiritual realm. 15:50 But even in the material realm everything holds together in the 15:53 love of God. 15:55 >>It's all connected. 15:56 >>Nature holds together in the love of God. 15:58 >>Yeah I just noticed this on the table with the creation 16:01 poem. 16:02 But James was bringing out the point cohesion. 16:06 Everything's connected together but what's connecting these 16:09 rocks as David pointed out is magnetism. 16:11 But what's connecting God to people and Adam to Eve and Adam 16:17 and Eve to their children and Adam and Eve to stewarding the 16:22 earth. 16:23 That which is connecting everything together is love. 16:26 It's amazing. 16:27 >>Well that's what's connecting us together. 16:29 That's why we're here. 16:30 That's why we're sitting at this table. 16:31 That's why we're sitting at this table because all of us 16:35 connected to each other. 16:36 We're different, we're unique. 16:37 We have our, you know, differences, personalities. 16:40 But what holds us all together at this table is love. 16:43 Its lots of love. 16:44 >>That's true. 16:45 >>That's the mission that we're here for. 16:46 That's what we have sought. 16:48 >>And even just apart from the mission thing I can look at Ty 16:51 and James and Jeffrey and I can say in total transparency and 16:56 accuracy and authenticity that I love you guys. 16:58 You know this would be turned into a great big love fest. 17:01 [Laughter] 17:02 >>But seriously though. 17:03 >>I'd go one step further I like you. 17:06 Is that a step further or is that--it's an extension of love. 17:09 >>In my view it's not a step further but it is something 17:11 different. 17:13 >>God doesn't just love us. 17:14 He likes us. 17:16 >>We need, I think. 17:18 >>I think we need to unpack that difference. 17:20 >>I saw a show where it was a marriage--like a marriage 17:23 counseling show and the counselor has a couple in his 17:28 office and he asked the wife. 17:30 Do you love him? 17:32 And the guys sitting next to her and she goes, well of course I 17:35 love him. 17:36 And then he says do you like him? 17:38 And then she's like quiet [Laugher] 17:40 >>She's like, she's like I love him. 17:44 He's like no I get that do you like him? 17:46 >>We've been over that ground. 17:47 >>I really love him. 17:48 So it's just fascinating how. 17:50 >>Did she quote the bible verse love your enemies? 17:52 >>She didn't quote the bible verse but we love people. 17:56 And I mean we have to be honest I mean I have to be honest 17:59 there's people that I love. 18:00 But I can't tell you that I like them. 18:04 >>You struggle to like them. 18:05 >>I struggle to like them, difficult to like. 18:07 Maybe I'm difficult to like. 18:09 >>Let's unpack this more after the break. 18:11 But we're gonna share something right now that I think people 18:15 are going to -be really interested to know. 18:17 Here we are having this conversation around the table. 18:20 A lot of people wonder what is Light Bearers. 18:23 That's the ministry we're all associate with and work together 18:25 in this short mission spot it's going to tell people what Light 18:30 Bearers is or at least one aspect of what we do as a 18:33 ministry. 18:34 >>Light Bearers Ministry is primarily all about publishing 18:47 so let's just take a tour of our 15,000 square foot publishing 18:51 facility. 18:52 We're able to produce multiplied millions of publication in 32 18:56 different languages that go all over the world. 18:59 The great thing about this press is it is completely 19:04 computerized. 19:06 The press is able to print on both sides of the paper in one 19:09 pass through the press roll after roll after roll all day 19:11 long. 19:13 Once the material is printed, folded, boxed and palletized. 19:19 It goes into this large storage unit that's like a big drawer 19:22 system. 19:23 This is where it gets really exciting because once the 19:31 material is completely prepared we load this stuff into semi 19:35 loads that hold between 2 and 3 million publications and that 19:39 material goes out to Seattle where it's loaded onto a barge 19:43 and then taken somewhere in the world. 19:46 That stuff lands and these people are overwhelmed to have 19:57 reading material in their own mother tongue. 20:00 That's when people's hearts really begin to get touched as 20:04 they encounter the gospel of Christ and God's incredible for 20:08 them. 20:09 Many of them for the first time in their lives. 20:12 Paper is powerful. 20:14 Paper is something that we see utilized in a way that goes 20:16 beyond anything that is in the world today. 20:19 It has a power that no other medium in the world has because 20:23 it has an ongoing life. 20:25 One person in the home reads that literature and then they 20:30 can give it to someone else. 20:31 And they can read it and share it. 20:33 Then they can give it to somebody else. 20:36 >>And next time you got two people instead of one. 20:38 >>It's actually passed on even from one family member to 20:41 another to read. 20:42 >>And next time you got three instead of two. 20:45 >>Unlike radio television that comes and then is gone. 20:48 That track is a permanent possession of that individual. 20:51 And so you see one piece of literature a nickel or less 20:55 going into these individuals and being used over and over again. 20:58 Reaching one heart after another after another. 21:00 >>To partner with Light Bearers in spreading the gospel visit us 21:10 online at lighbearers.org or call us toll free at 21:15 1-877-585-1111. 21:18 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 21:23 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 21:27 >>It's just great that so many millions of publications go out 21:32 of this place. 21:33 In fact a lot of people don't realize this but we're sitting 21:35 in, is this a secret? 21:37 We're sitting in the publishing house right now. 21:39 >>With the lights off. 21:41 >>Yeah with the lights off. 21:43 We're basically in our publishing house with the lights 21:45 off and--but it's incredible literally millions upon millions 21:48 publications. 21:49 >>Praise God. 21:50 >>Going out to all the world, multiple languages nations all 21:54 over the world. 21:55 It's just a very powerful ministry. 21:56 So. 21:57 >>Amen. 21:58 >>Preaching the good news in written form. 21:59 >>So far we've been leading this discussion and we've gone 22:04 through creation. 22:05 We've gone through God's expressive activity in Genesis 22:08 one and to lead up and all of that. 22:11 And all of these points lead to the question what was God's 22:15 original purpose? 22:17 What's the point? 22:18 Why do we exist instead of not exist? 22:21 Isn't that the philosophical question? 22:23 >>I like that. 22:24 >>Why's there something rather than nothing? 22:26 >>I like that formulation why do we exist? 22:28 >>Yeah why do we exist? 22:29 There's a text, there's a text in Isaiah that we can look at as 22:33 a sort of brief summary. 22:37 >>Like a summary. 22:38 >>Summary, definition. 22:39 It's a summary definition. 22:40 It's in Isaiah chapter 43 and there's some pretty grandiose 22:42 themes here. 22:44 I'm looking at Isaiah 43 verse 7 and this is I guess a dictionary 22:50 definition purpose for human existence. 22:54 And it says in verse 7 everyone who is called by my name, this 22:58 is God speaking whom I have created for my glory. 23:03 I have formed him. 23:05 Yes I have made him. 23:06 There's this idea that we, the human race have been created for 23:12 the glory of God. 23:13 And that connects to something in the mosaic literature in 23:17 Exodus where Moses is up on the mountain. 23:19 And he's in communion with God. 23:23 And God is manifesting himself to Moses and Moses poses a 23:28 question. 23:31 I'm going to read that very quickly I think this will launch 23:32 us into. 23:33 >>On top of Mount Sinai. 23:35 >>By the way Jeffery while you're going there 23:36 >>Yep 23:38 >> To Exodus you know I think a lot of people--I've heard people 23:40 just really trip over this. 23:42 What do you mean we were created for God's glory? 23:45 To some people's ears that God's and ego maniac. 23:48 In other words, I created you. 23:50 >>It's all about him. 23:52 >>To glorify me. 23:53 That God's an egocentric kind of being and that, you know, 23:55 basically hey you exist to stand, you know, in perfect line 24:00 saying praise God, praise God, praise God. 24:03 In some kind of--people have a strange view of what it means 24:06 when the bible says for my glory. 24:09 Have you heard that idea? 24:11 >>Absolutely it sounds like God is a self-centered being that 24:15 wants. 24:16 It's all about me, me, me but I think that this whole sort of 24:18 answer that question. 24:20 >>Where are you at? 24:21 >>I'm in Exodus 33 and I'm holding onto Isaiah; we were 24:25 created for God's glory and Moses poses a question to God in 24:28 verse 18. 24:29 Exodus 33 and he says to God please show me your glory. 24:34 >>That's a quintessential question right there. 24:38 >>Show me your glory and the response is, is dramatic. 24:42 The way God shows Moses his glory is essentially a 24:46 description of his character and so in verse 19 God says I will 24:52 make all my goodness pass before you. 24:55 I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. 24:57 I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious. 25:00 I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 25:04 Then he jumped down to verse 34 and it actually happens. 25:08 In verse 5 the Lord descends in the clouds and stood with him 25:13 there and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 25:16 And the Lord passed before him, verse 6, and proclaimed the 25:20 Lord, the Lord God merciful, gracious, longsuffering, 25:24 abounding in goodness and truth. 25:27 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and 25:30 transgression and sin. 25:31 And by no means clearing the guilty. 25:34 Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and 25:37 the children's children to the third and fourth generation. 25:40 >>That's heavy stuff. 25:41 >>So the reply is profound. 25:43 The glory of God. 25:44 The way God demonstrates that is simply a description of who he 25:49 is. 25:50 So is that a window to answer the question why were we 25:52 created? 25:55 And what does it mean that we were created for God's glory? 25:56 >>When you were speaking there I was listening the whole time and 26:01 I love. 26:02 I think you've gone to exactly the right places Isaiah 43 and 26:05 then Exodus or is that. 26:10 >>Exodus. 26:11 >>Isaiah 43 and Exodus 33 and 34. 26:12 I love the opening question and answer to the Westminster 26:15 Catechism right? 26:17 The Westminster Catechism in historical Christian documents 26:20 says. 26:21 It opens with this line what is the chief end of man? 26:25 What's man's purpose? 26:26 The answer is this to know God and to enjoy him forever. 26:30 That's it the purpose for which we were created. 26:36 That's the idea of glory. 26:37 That's how I understand whom I created for my glory, to know 26:40 me, to enjoy me, to love me, to be loved by me, to be enjoyed by 26:43 me, relationship. 26:46 >>Egocentric. 26:48 >>Hardly egocentric. 26:49 >>He's other centered. 26:51 >>That's the whole point. 26:52 The whole point we've already been discussing up to this point 26:55 is God is love. 26:56 He is not a rigid singularity. 26:57 He is in himself a family, community in a relationship. 26:59 And so here when he says who are you, Moses on top of the 27:03 mountain. 27:04 Who are you? 27:05 Who am I talking to? 27:06 Because he's veiled behind the cloud, behind the smoke, behind 27:08 the lightening, the thunder and all of the power that was 27:12 manifested there on top of Sinai. 27:13 Who are you? 27:15 He says well this is who I am. 27:16 I'm 27:17 >>I'm good. 27:18 >>I'm good. 27:20 I'm this. 27:21 I'm this. 27:22 Now that does introduce something there. 27:23 Because you get down and it sounds really nice and really 27:26 good, just and forgiving, loving and then you get down to that 27:28 part about visiting the iniquity of the chil--ok now here's. 27:30 >>By no means clearing the guilty. 27:31 >>No means clearing the guilty. 27:33 Now here's something I think we have to come to grips with and 27:36 it's a big part of the question that you're asking. 27:38 Why do we exist? 27:39 And that is that we should not say God is love which we've said 27:45 over and over again. 27:46 And we're going to keep saying because that's the great truth 27:48 of who God is. 27:50 God is love. 27:51 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah but he's also just. 27:52 God is love but he's also. 27:57 >>It's a false dicotamy. 27:59 >>It's a--ex--ok--unpack that because I think that has to be. 28:01 >>The way I look at it. 28:03 I don't know if again, these Ipads are just so, so handy but 28:06 the way I've been looking at it is basic illustration. 28:11 See it, can you see these guys? 28:13 >>Got it. 28:14 >>Ok, so, wait a minute. 28:17 We got a circle here. 28:18 That circle is love. 28:20 The question is if this represents the totality of God's 28:25 character. 28:26 Alright. 28:27 >>And his nature. 28:28 >>And his nature. 28:29 The totality could we say that everything else that is true of 28:33 God--we'll start with basic division. 28:36 We'll have mercy and justice. 28:39 So the false dichotomy, you asked me to unpack that--to say 28:43 God is love. 28:44 Oh yeah God is love but God is also just. 28:45 Let me just ask this. 28:47 Isn't justice a manifestation of love? 28:51 >>Mhm of course it is. 28:53 >>Isn't there are circumstances we've all been in where the 28:56 loving thing to do is the just thing. 28:59 You apply justice in order to implement love. 29:04 >>Isn't parenting the perfect parallel? 29:06 >>Yeah, parenting is the perfect parallel. 29:08 But then you could add everything here. 29:10 You know segment out you could say, you know, patience over 29:12 here and what did it say? 29:15 Goodness. 29:16 >>Longsuffering. 29:17 >>Longsuffering, kindness, whatever. 29:18 You just put all those traits in the circle. 29:21 God is love. 29:23 Because God is love he's also holy and just. 29:27 >>That's the thing. 29:28 >>everything. 29:29 >>What you just said right there is the clarity. 29:31 Because he is love he is also holy, just, patient, 29:33 longsuffering, etc. That's the point. 29:35 >>So, so I think now this sort of ties in to my view so I took 29:39 the conversation slightly over there. 29:41 I want to bring it back to what Jeffrey was saying why we exist. 29:43 If God isn't like this then we might exist for a number of 29:47 reasons. 29:48 In other words if God just made us to be his minions to be his 29:50 puppets to be controlled by. 29:51 Which is kind of your question, you know that does make some 29:54 people nervous; whom I have created for my glory. 29:56 But if God is like that--if God is a relational, good, loving, 30:01 amazing, communal God then the reason for which we are created 30:05 is exactly what the catechism says there to know God and to 30:08 enjoy him forever. 30:10 >>Wow. 30:11 >>To be in a relationship with him. 30:13 To bask in his presence. 30:15 To--language is failing me. 30:18 >>If we're created for God's glory, Jeffrey and to enjoy God 30:25 forever. 30:26 These things go together. 30:27 God isn't interested. 30:29 He's not creating beings to serve him. 30:33 He's creating beings. 30:35 >>To serve. 30:36 >>To serve them. 30:38 >>That's right. 30:40 >>And then to have reciprocation that occurs. 30:42 He's the initiator of the relationship and he's calling 30:46 the best out of us toward him and toward one another. 30:50 So to say that we're created for God's glory isn't an ego 30:53 statement from God's standpoint. 30:57 It's, listen, I'm God. 30:59 I made you in my image. 31:00 I want you to experience life and reality the way I do. 31:02 And I experience it love, in goodness. 31:06 I enjoy my relationship within the Godhead, Father, Son and 31:11 Holy Spirit are enjoying one another as we pointed out the 31:15 word delight is used in scripture. 31:17 Regarding the relationship between Father, Son and Holy 31:20 Spirit. 31:21 They delight in one another's companionship. 31:22 Well God created us for his glory it means God created us to 31:27 basically enjoy relationships with him and with one another. 31:31 >>I've just got to jump in there quickly. 31:33 Just two days ago I was in the Seattle airport and you've seen 31:36 these shirts that people wear, life is good. 31:38 You know the shirts and the hats and the little smiley face 31:41 people. 31:42 I think it's a Seattle based company because they had a big 31:44 life is good store there in the SeTack airport. 31:47 And it dawned on me just as I was looking at all these 31:50 t-shirts and bags and socks and all of this life is good 31:53 paraphernalia. 31:54 The reason that life is good is that God is good. 31:57 He made life like this. 32:01 He made relationships. 32:02 He made puppies. 32:03 He made sunsets. 32:04 He made zoos. 32:05 He made birds. 32:06 He made surfing. 32:07 >>He made animals we made zoos. 32:08 >>Thank you. 32:09 [Laughter] 32:10 >>He made zoology. 32:13 There you go. 32:14 He made zoology. 32:15 Now I also have to pick up on that point that you just said 32:17 that's so awesome. 32:18 He says you said that God did not make mankind primarily to 32:22 serve him but to serve them. 32:24 And that's exactly what Jesus said in Matthew chapter 20 verse 32:28 28 he said the Son of man who is God on earth. 32:31 If you've seen me you've seen the Father. 32:33 The Son of man didn't come to be served but to serve. 32:36 And to give his life as a ransom for mankind. 32:40 >>I've got a verse for you guys on this straight up. 32:42 Jesus said, if I can find it in Luke. 32:44 Jesus said that one of the things that's going to happen. 32:48 We get into the kingdom and Jesus says oh here it is. 32:55 It's in chapter 12 verse 37 blessed are those servants whom 32:58 the master when he comes will find watching. 33:02 Assuredly I say to you that he, this is the master. 33:05 This is God Almighty. 33:06 This is the creator of the universe. 33:07 He, God, will gird himself, which is amazing. 33:13 He will gird himself and have them sit down to eat and will 33:19 come and serve them. 33:20 >>That's the picture. 33:22 >>So we get into the eternal kingdom, sin and suffering is no 33:25 more. 33:27 We're on the other side of this war between good and evil and we 33:29 enter God's presence and he says I've got a table prepared for 33:33 you. 33:34 Sit down, sit down, you guys sit down. 33:35 We sit down. 33:36 God puts on the apron and starts serving the meal. 33:39 >>Hmmm. 33:41 >>That's biblical. 33:42 >>Hallelujah. 33:43 >>That's what Jesus says. 33:44 >>And it's not only what Jesus says. 33:45 It's what he did in John 13. 33:47 >>Yes. 33:48 >>When the disciples sat down and he says if I then you 33:49 Lord--when He washed the disciples feet. 33:51 If I your Lord and Master have washed your feet. 33:53 You want to want. 33:54 God the picture that we're painting here. 33:57 Not that we're painting. 33:58 >>That's astounding. 33:59 >>The scripture that paints of God is a picture that causes us 34:01 to fall in love with him. 34:04 >>You know. 34:05 >>In fact. 34:06 >>Go ahead. 34:07 >>In fact Isaiah 43 that's where we started Isaiah 43 verse 7. 34:09 Well the context of Isaiah 43 is really interesting when you read 34:13 it in context. 34:14 It's talking about how God is going to call all the nations of 34:16 earth together. 34:18 All these nations that live and thrive and exist on this 34:22 self-glorification. 34:23 This principle of self-glory. 34:25 He's going to call them all together. 34:26 And you are going to be my witnesses. 34:29 And you are going to testify of how I am, of what I'm like. 34:32 >>Whoa. 34:34 >>Of what I really--what it really is like to give glory to 34:36 me or to be like me. 34:37 To be selfless, to be other centered. 34:39 So when we bring all these nations together from Babylon 34:42 and Egypt and Ethiopia etc. And then you're going to be my 34:45 witnesses. 34:46 You're gonna testify to my glory and what I'm really like in 34:48 contrast with that. 34:49 >>That's beautiful. 34:50 And you know I've been thinking that we're in Isaiah. 34:53 We're in Matthew. 34:54 We're in the New Testament but you don't even have to look so 34:56 far to arrive at the conclusion that we've been created to love 35:00 God. 35:01 To know God and to enjoy Him. 35:02 We we're talking about that chiastic structure of Genesis 1. 35:07 Forms sort of like a triangle. 35:08 And at the top of the triangle is the Sabbath, the seventh day. 35:12 And that there's no creative activity on the seventh day. 35:15 It's an empty canvass and God fills it as you said with 35:18 his--with his presence, right? 35:20 And so at the very beginning, the first full day that the 35:24 human race experiences is a day of rest in simple fellowship 35:34 with the creator. 35:35 And so this is really powerful because the very first full day 35:38 of Adam and Eve. 35:41 They're introduced to fellowship with God. 35:44 But even more than that God is introducing himself to a new 35:48 experience. 35:50 Because this is a new race that did not previously exist. 35:54 And it's a new experience for God himself to be able to 35:58 fellowship and to have a relationship with this brand new 36:02 race of created beings. 36:03 So I think that's another window. 36:05 We were created because God wanted us to exist. 36:12 Because God wanted. 36:13 >>That's the most basic level. 36:16 That's true. 36:19 >>God wanted us to be the object of his enjoyment. 36:21 >>And want is a higher compliment than need. 36:24 >>Totally. 36:25 >>Yeah, you could say that some people have said, you know, God 36:27 needed human beings to exist. 36:28 Well Father, Son and Holy Spirit that's a perfect cohesive 36:31 relationship right there. 36:33 God transcends everything. 36:35 I don't think it's totally accurate. 36:37 I mean this is philosophical to say God needed us. 36:40 But to say he wanted us. 36:42 >>You know. 36:43 >>It's amazing. 36:44 >>My wife always says, I'm sure you're wife says this. 36:46 Do you love me baby? 36:47 Do you love me? 36:48 She asks me that every day. 36:49 And I'm thinking I told you I loved you when we got married. 36:52 >>You said you were the romantic type. 36:56 >> [Everyone talking at once] 36:57 >>I'm getting there. 36:58 I'm getting there. 36:59 This is a set up you gotta just learn. 37:00 Take notes here. 37:01 This is a set up. 37:03 >>let me get some paper and pen. 37:04 >>I say baby. 37:05 >>Pen is poised. 37:07 >>You know why I love you. 37:08 She's like I don't understand why you wouldn't. 37:10 I say just because I do. 37:12 Just because I like you. 37:13 I don't have to have this long list of characteristics. 37:16 You're a great cook. 37:17 You know how to clean the house. 37:18 Blah, blah those are all characteristics. 37:21 But I would even venture to say it's a greater form of flattery 37:25 to say. 37:26 >>Just like you as a person. 37:29 >>I just get a kick out of you. 37:30 Like I just. 37:31 I enjoy you. 37:32 >>Yeah, your company, your friendship. 37:33 >>And I love that because God loves us. 37:34 We get--He gets a kick out of us. 37:40 I think that's a beautiful concept. 37:41 >>It's absolutely beautiful. 37:42 But you are touching on something that we actually ended 37:45 out last session on. 37:46 That we sort of went like that and we have to come back to this 37:49 idea that God loves us. 37:50 Because you just said love, love, love and then you started 37:53 using the word like inside of it. 37:55 We have to have that conversation at some point 37:57 because the fact that God loves us tells us a lot about God. 38:00 Tells us that God is good. 38:02 God is amazing. 38:03 God is unconditional and gracious. 38:05 But if God likes us that says something about Jeffrey. 38:08 That says something about James because you're different than 38:10 James. 38:11 James is different from Ty. 38:13 So that's--to me that's a question we have to engage with. 38:15 A lot of people can say yeah, yeah, yeah I get that God loves 38:18 me. 38:20 But I look in the mirror I don't even like myself. 38:24 How could God like me. 38:26 >>Yeah, yeah it's playing in the uniqueness of each individual. 38:29 You know we have some more time to flush these things out. 38:31 I don't know where you want to go from here but this love like 38:34 idea. 38:36 I think that it's incredible to explore that. 38:38 I'm wondering if there's anything direct in the bible 38:41 that we could think about that specifically indicates that God 38:47 likes us as individuals? 38:51 We've gotta take a break. 38:53 But we'll come back and then we'll just start flushing out 38:56 this like love idea. 38:58 I think we've all experienced it on the human level. 39:01 But can we honestly say God likes us? 39:04 And are there any times that God doesn't like us? 39:07 Are there things that we do--is there a sharp segregation 39:10 between God likes me but not what I do? 39:14 I don't know what you think about that--that distinction. 39:16 We'll just explore that when we come back after the break. 39:19 >>The Light Bearers story is a short award winning video that 39:29 >>The Light Bearers story is a short award winning video that 39:34 gives an inside look at one of the boldest and most effective 39:38 missionary ventures of our time. 39:40 You will see how multiple millions of gospel publications 39:43 are flooding the nations free of charge by surprisingly simple 39:47 means. 39:48 For your free copy of the Light Bearers Story call 39:50 1-877-585-1111. 39:54 Or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 40:00 97438. 40:02 Once again for your free copy of the Light Bearers story call 40:06 1-877-585-1111. 40:10 Or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 40:16 97438. 40:18 Simply ask for the Light Bearers story. 40:20 >>So there are two really good verses that I think will unpack 40:30 or begin to unpack this whole idea of love and light. 40:33 First one is in First Corinthians chapter 13 and the 40:37 second one is in Matthew 22 verse 39. 40:40 Just looking at these two verses you get a picture of God's 40:43 character and the way he relates to us. 40:45 And then you get a picture of us and the way we relate to one 40:49 another. 40:51 >>Okay. 40:54 >>The first verse is First Corinthians 13:7 it's describing 40:55 love. 40:56 God is love. 40:57 >>Mhm. 40:58 >>And it says that love bears all things, believes all things, 40:59 hopes all things and endures all things. 41:01 >>Mhm. 41:03 >>Now the whole idea here is that love transcends even our 41:06 likes. 41:07 In other words, there are a lot of things about myself that I 41:09 don't like. 41:11 Jesus says in Matthew chapter 22 verse 39 you shall love your 41:14 neighbor as yourself. 41:16 Well in order to love somebody else as myself. 41:19 I have to have some love for myself. 41:20 The love that I have for myself in First Corinthians is the love 41:23 that hopes all things and believes all things. 41:26 Even though I might not like all things. 41:28 >>Yeah, Yeah. 41:30 >>So when I get up in the morning. 41:32 I look in the mirror. 41:33 I say awe there's a couple of things about myself I don't 41:35 like. 41:36 >>Are you talking about physical things or just like your 41:37 personality. 41:38 >>Being an example. 41:39 >>Okay got it. 41:40 >>Being kind of like an illustration of who I am. 41:41 So there are some things I see in the mirror of God's love that 41:43 I don't like. 41:46 >>Okay got it. 41:47 >>But I hope that I'll be better. 41:48 I hope. 41:49 I give myself room to grow. 41:51 I give myself room to 41:52 >>Oh I like that. 41:53 >>to have. 41:54 I have an expectation for myself. 41:55 That's the way we love our neighbor because there's a lot 41:56 of things about other people we may not like. 41:58 >>I just noticed something. 41:59 I love, love, love what you just said. 42:01 You said verse 7 in First Corinthians 13 Bears all things, 42:05 believes all things, hopes all things. 42:06 But then now you're bringing out a point that really I don't know 42:09 if you noticed this. 42:10 Is brought out in verse 6. 42:11 It says that love or God because God is love does not rejoice in 42:15 iniquity but rejoices in the truth. 42:17 >>Love it. 42:18 >>So isn't it possible for love to be rejoicing about certain 42:22 things about myself or about a person I am having a 42:26 relationship. 42:27 But not being excited at all. 42:29 >>Not liking. 42:31 >>Not liking other things about myself or somebody I'm having a 42:35 relationship with. 42:36 You see what I'm saying in that verse? 42:37 Is that there? 42:39 >>Yes it's in verse 6. 42:40 >>Does not rejoice in iniquity. 42:41 Sometimes we say that God loves the sinner but hates the sin. 42:45 That's right there. 42:46 He doesn't rejoice in the bad things that we do and the bad 42:49 traits that we've developed. 42:51 But he rejoices in the good things about us. 42:53 Right? 42:54 >>One of the things I think we're going to have to come to 42:56 grips with here is that over the course of our life. 43:00 Jeffrey's 30. 43:01 I'm 40. 43:03 You guys are close to 50 bordering in it. 43:05 As we get older we become the composite of the decisions that 43:11 we've made. 43:13 So we begin to identify ourselves with either love and 43:17 goodness and godliness. 43:19 Or we begin to identify ourselves with selfishness and 43:21 what it says iniquity here. 43:22 And that identification according to scripture can 43:25 become so--the division between the action and the actor can 43:29 become so seem less that at the end of time God chooses not to 43:35 save people. 43:36 Not because of an arbitrary choice. 43:37 But because they have become so identified with the action, with 43:41 the thing, with the godlessness, with the hate or the cruelty or 43:44 whatever it is. 43:46 That they themselves are unsavable. 43:48 In fact it's not even best to say that God chooses not to. 43:52 God honors the choices that they have made. 43:54 >>Yeah a short way to say, you know it's kind of scary, 43:57 probably the better word it's sobering what you just said to 44:00 me. 44:01 But a short way to say that is. 44:02 That we make our decisions and then our decisions make us. 44:05 >>I love that. 44:06 >>Right? 44:08 >>That's exactly right. 44:09 >>What we're choosing to do things and then those choices 44:11 are reacting to shape us psychologically, emotionally, 44:15 morally. 44:16 Our relationships are changed by our decisions and we're 44:19 gradually either growing into the likeness of God. 44:24 In our own unique characters. 44:26 Or we are becoming more and more like the ugly traits in our 44:31 self. 44:32 And they're magnifying and taking up space in our hearts 44:34 and minds. 44:35 Until we are so identified with the bad. 44:37 That there's no room for the good. 44:40 >>It's like a cycle right? 44:41 >>Yeah. 44:42 >>Character feeds actions. 44:43 But actions. 44:44 >>Reinforce character. 44:48 >>And develop character. 44:49 It's like a cycle. 44:50 It feeds. 44:51 >>The older we get the more solidified that becomes. 44:54 It's not that you can't teach old dog new tricks. 44:57 But just that once you're in the habit of 20, 30, 40 years of 45:01 doing a certain way. 45:02 Or thinking a certain way. 45:03 Doing something a certain way. 45:04 It takes supernatural things to break through that thing that 45:10 you have become so identified with. 45:12 And it might be something that you yourself don't like. 45:14 But God looks at the thing and says man I hate that thing. 45:16 >>Mhm. 45:17 >>Because God hates iniquity. 45:18 >>He hates it because he loves you. 45:19 >>That's true. 45:21 >>But at the same time love never fails, that's verse 8 of 45:23 First Corinthians 13. 45:24 Love never fails. 45:25 It's really important for us to be able to identify ourselves in 45:28 the context of the way that God looks at us. 45:31 >>Yeah. 45:32 >>Don't you think? 45:33 >>Yeah, you know all this talk about mirrors. 45:35 You were mentioning about looking in the mirror. 45:37 You just imagine, you know, the girl standing in front of the 45:39 mirror. 45:40 And just covering herself up, whether it's makeup or the 45:47 clothes that she chooses. 45:48 And just painting--creating this new persona. 45:51 Because she's so--she's aching inside. 45:54 Because she doesn't sense her--she doesn't see value in 45:59 herself. 46:00 And so her entire life is this desperate, grasping. 46:03 This desperate attempt to be somebody who she's not. 46:07 She's not comfortable in her own skin and you just look at all 46:11 the pain and all the aching in the world. 46:13 And it's --this planet is populated by billions of people 46:16 in search of themselves. 46:20 Of who they are. 46:22 And. 46:23 >>That's a great answer. 46:24 >>There's another cycle here. 46:26 Our concept of who God is determines our concept of who we 46:30 are. 46:32 So our understanding of the character of God is where we 46:35 glean our understanding of ourselves. 46:37 And that's why when you analyze different world views with 46:40 different views of who God is you see it reflected. 46:45 You see the reflection. 46:46 >>In the culture. 46:47 >>In the culture and in the lives of the individuals. 46:49 And so that's why--that's why we're so we're discussing this 46:53 God is love. 46:56 We're discussing this what is God? 46:57 What is He like? 46:58 Because that's critical because if we get that wrong. 47:00 >>You get everything else wrong. 47:02 >>It's like a domino effect. 47:03 Everything else goes south. 47:05 >> Well let's make this really practical. 47:07 So are you saying that, for example, if I have a picture of 47:11 God. 47:12 A belief system about God that has him standing toward me in an 47:17 attitude of condemnation. 47:20 Am I then going to view myself through the lens of that 47:24 condemnation? 47:26 And when somebody fails me my natural inclination is going to 47:31 be to relate to them harshly. 47:33 And to condemn them for their failures rather than be quick 47:37 and ready to forgive them. 47:38 Because if I don't think God can forgive me. 47:41 If God in my picture of him is not forgiving. 47:45 I mean you really gotta twist his arm to get him. 47:47 You gotta just plead and beg and do penance and go on pilgrimage 47:52 or whatever the worldview has to be. 47:54 If you need to force God to forgive you and he's reluctant. 47:57 Isn't that going to make me more reluctant? 48:01 >>Of course. 48:02 >>To forgive somebody who fails me. 48:03 >>Yeah you're gonna project to others your perception of God. 48:06 This is actually hinted at--I'm not even sure it's a hint. 48:10 This is blatant in the statement Jesus made the two great 48:13 commandments. 48:14 I was reading here in Mark chapter 12 and it says in verse 48:17 29 Jesus is approached and somebody says what are the 48:21 greatest commandments? 48:23 And he says well the first one is love the Lord your God with 48:26 all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and 48:29 with all your strength. 48:30 This is the first commandment. 48:31 And then he says the second one is and he addresses love for 48:36 other people. 48:37 And so that order. 48:38 >>Vertical horizontal. 48:40 >>But the sequence is pivotal. 48:42 We live in a world where everyone is interested in love. 48:44 We talked about the other day. 48:45 The songs we listen to on the radio. 48:47 The movies, it's all about love. 48:48 We're all in search of love. 48:51 But we're all trying to figure out how can we get satisfied 48:53 with love. 48:54 >>At the horizontal level. 48:56 >>At the horizontal level bypassing the first commandment. 48:58 Jesus said the first one is the first one. 49:01 The second one is the second one. 49:03 For a reason. 49:04 If you jump to number two before you nail number one. 49:07 You get what we get in our society. 49:08 >>That's kind of a broken illicit love. 49:11 It's not even love that we're looking for on the horizontal 49:15 level because before you tap into and begin to experience 49:18 God's Agape love as we talked about. 49:21 His unilateral selfless other centered love. 49:23 The only way you can love somebody is with 49:26 self-centeredness. 49:30 Right? 49:31 You gotta--you're always looking for them to satisfy you. 49:32 You know sometimes people say in relationships, in marriage 49:35 relationships--you know you don't love me the way I need to 49:38 be loved. 49:39 Or you're not meeting my needs. 49:40 Well the entire paradigm is wrong. 49:42 Right? 49:44 The whole premise is wrong because the point of a 49:47 relationship from my perspective is the serve you and meet your 49:51 needs. 49:53 Not to use you to meet mine. 49:54 But then when you flip it. 49:56 The whole point of the relationship from your 49:58 perspective is to meet my needs. 50:00 Right? 50:03 So if I'm looking out my eyes it's all about you. 50:06 If you're looking out your eyes it's all about me. 50:07 The moment I say you know what? 50:09 This whole thing where you're all into me. 50:13 I think that's the way we ought to go with this. 50:16 >>I think you're on to something here. 50:18 >>Yeah you're on to something here. 50:19 I think since you're all about me I'll be all about me. 50:22 And keep using you to satisfy me. 50:24 >>You're saying that's broken. 50:25 >>That's broken. 50:27 >>The more you focus on the emphasis is on the other 50:29 individual. 50:30 The more it reciprocates. 50:31 So it's a perfect plan that God has--the universe is run in 50:34 terms of God's kindgom in a brilliant principle. 50:38 Because love solves all of these social issues. 50:41 Because the more you invest in an individual the more that 50:43 reciprocates. 50:45 And it's a cycle. 50:46 >>Isn't that something? 50:47 >>You touched on something earlier Jeffrey. 50:48 You were just using it as an illustration. 50:49 I think we need to speak directly to it. 50:51 And that is the girl in the mirror. 50:53 That doesn't mean to imply that if, you know a girl or a guy 50:55 wants to look nice that they're insecure and they don't' know 50:56 who they are. 50:58 But your point is a point well taken. 50:59 >>Self-worth yeah. 51:01 >>All of us whether the girl in the mirror or David or Ty. 51:04 I mean us at this table and the people that are listening in. 51:07 We have those measures. 51:09 Those standards by which we evaluate ourselves. 51:12 And those standards or measures can come from a variety of 51:15 places. 51:16 They can come from the world. 51:17 They can come from media. 51:18 They can come from fashion. 51:19 They can come from magazines. 51:20 They can come from the expectations of peers. 51:21 We all have this at the table. 51:23 The trick the beauty is to allow. 51:26 This is what I think you are saying then too. 51:28 Is before we here all the other competing voices about who you 51:32 should be and what you should be. 51:33 And what you should do and what you should look like. 51:35 And what you should wear. 51:36 We need to hear God's voice. 51:37 And when we are solid and secure in who we are in God, in Christ. 51:42 What we are made to be. 51:43 All these other voices can have a place at the table. 51:46 But they may not have--they don't have the most important 51:49 place. 51:51 I'd say it this way God's voice has the throne and the other 51:53 voices have a place at the table. 51:55 >>That's nice. 51:56 It's kind of the audience of one idea. 51:57 >>You know I coined a word for that. 52:00 The audience 'cause you have the word God. 52:03 And then you have the word audience. 52:04 So I put the two together Gaudience. 52:06 >>Oh that's excellent. 52:08 >>We live for the Gaudience of one. 52:09 For God is our audience. 52:11 And it doesn't mean that I don't care what Ty thinks about me. 52:14 I do. 52:15 I care very much what TY thinks about me and Jeffrey and James. 52:17 Because I love you guys. 52:18 But what the media is telling me. 52:21 Or the movies are telling me. 52:22 Or the men's fitness magazine that you have to be this do this 52:24 whatever it is. 52:25 I know I can eeeee tune that out and tune in what God. 52:29 >>Yeah. 52:30 >>What God thinks about it. 52:32 >>yeah, yeah. 52:33 >>That was pivotal in my journey because similar. 52:34 I guess we all had a sort of experience or encounter near our 52:39 teen years. 52:40 But not--growing up with a single mom when there's no 52:44 father in the house. 52:46 You have to figure out what does it mean to be man. 52:48 >>Hmmm 52:49 >>Hmmm 52:51 >>Right? 52:52 I had to figure that out. 52:53 >>Yeah. 52:54 >>The world is telling me I have to figure out what it is to be a 52:55 man. 52:56 Well if dad's not in the home. 52:57 Well what's going to be my source? 52:58 What will be my reference point? 53:00 So it's MTV or it's--so then you figure out. 53:02 >>Heaven forbid. 53:04 >>The way that I dress. 53:05 >>The way you project yourself. 53:06 >>The way I talk. 53:07 The way that I project myself. 53:09 All that is--is I'm just mirroring some persona that I'm 53:13 watching or that I'm looking up to. 53:16 And I'm trying to be that person. 53:18 So I talk the way that I talk. 53:19 I dress the way that I dress. 53:21 And that's exactly the transaction that needs to 53:24 happen. 53:25 That's what we find in God is we find our reference point. 53:27 Who am I? 53:30 Who was I created to be? 53:31 This comes right back to where we began in Genesis 53:33 and asking the question basically why did God create us 53:37 in the first place, ya know, what is a human being? 53:41 And we discover in the Genesis account that human beings were 53:45 made by God, as you pointed out in Isaiah 43:7 For God's glory. 53:52 But let's just wrap some more language in that. 53:55 There's a collection of capacities that a human being 54:00 has, right? 54:01 We can say number one, we are intellectual creatures or 54:03 rational creatures. 54:04 >>Mhm. 54:05 >>Right? 54:06 We have the capacity 54:07 >>To learn. 54:08 >>Think, to learn. 54:10 Okay. 54:11 >>Deduce. 54:12 >>We're also emotional creatures. 54:13 We're also volitional creatures or free will creatures. 54:15 We make decisions. 54:16 And as they said then they make us. 54:18 We're relational creatures. 54:20 You know all of these things. 54:22 >>We're creative. 54:23 >>We're creative beings. 54:25 Right? 54:26 Not only procreative but creativity. 54:28 I mean God said okay here's this garden. 54:30 >>Make it beautiful. 54:32 >>Now I want you. 54:34 Yeah it's a beautiful garden the Garden of Eden. 54:36 Now I want you to tend to it. 54:37 To manage it. 54:38 And you get the implication that they were to grow the garden. 54:41 That is to expand it so that the whole world would become an 54:45 Eden. 54:46 >>Yes that's right. 54:47 >>So apply your creativity. 54:49 >>Naming of the animals. 54:50 >>The naming of the animals is an expression of God basically 54:52 saying hey. 54:54 >>Figure this out. 54:55 >>Get creative. 54:56 I'm not going to tell you the answer to every issue. 54:58 I want you to name the--I love that. 55:01 I want you to name the animals. 55:02 I want you to use your mind to come up with something to name 55:07 the animals. 55:08 >>And whatever you come up with we'll roll with it. 55:09 God said we'll roll with it. 55:11 Yeah I like that. 55:13 We'll roll with it. 55:14 >>Yeah, yeah. 55:16 >>Isn't that something? 55:17 God's a delegator for sure. 55:18 He's not a control freak. 55:20 >>So Ty what I'm hearing you say then is that you have these 55:22 capacities intellectual, emotional, volitional, 55:24 relational, creative. 55:25 That's the kind of person God is. 55:27 So he made us those kinds of people intellectual, emotional. 55:31 >>In his likeness. 55:32 >>Yeah. 55:33 >>Isn't that something? 55:34 >>That's absolutely beautiful. 55:35 Now let me say this. 55:36 What do you think of this? 55:37 You mentioned just MTV earlier but that's a very modern thing, 55:40 right? 55:42 Two hundred years ago what did the world say that a man was or 55:44 a woman was? 55:46 And four hundred years ago what did the world say a man was or a 55:48 woman was? 55:49 It's always changing. 55:50 It's shifting. 55:51 If you look at what was beautiful back in, you know a 55:54 certain old, renaissance era paintings. 55:56 The girls that they thought were the beautiful girls don't look 55:59 like today. 56:00 >>Right. 56:01 >>So here's something that's powerful. 56:02 Fashions shift and the world's perspective of beauty and what 56:06 makes somebody important shifts. 56:08 But God's perspective of what really matters. 56:12 What's really beautiful? 56:13 What makes you a true human? 56:14 The best Jeffrey that you can be. 56:16 That doesn't shift. 56:18 >>Mhm. 56:19 >>That is. 56:20 >>Well why is that? 56:21 >>Because God doesn't shift. 56:22 >>Because it flows from his unchanging character. 56:24 >>God doesn't shift. 56:25 >>Which is--and it flows from his love. 56:26 >>Yeah. 56:27 >>So, so I guess I would sort of say it this way. 56:29 If someone's listening in or even for us. 56:31 And you're thinking to yourself how should I live? 56:33 What should I do? 56:34 What's important in life? 56:35 Who did God make me to be? 56:37 That's the question. 56:38 The world will shift and change. 56:40 And today it's blue and tomorrow it's black. 56:42 And you know you've heard the saying the brown is the new 56:44 black, the black is the new brown and 30 is the new 20 and 56:46 all that. 56:48 No, no, no. 56:50 What does God say? 56:51 He has made us for more than just a purpose to look like this 56:53 and the makeup and the clothes and the abs and all that. 56:57 God has made us for something transcendent not that those are 57:00 unimportant. 57:01 But he's made us for something bigger. 57:03 For something grander and as the creator he is the one uniquely 57:04 qualified to tell us this is why I made you. 57:09 >>Wow it's beautiful. 57:11 Well guys we have one minute. 57:12 So. 57:13 >>How would you summarize. 57:15 >>Two things. 57:16 >>James summarize it. 57:17 >>Number one God is first. 57:19 In order for us to love this way vertically horizontally we need 57:22 to love. 57:23 We need to understand vertical. 57:24 >>Yeah. 57:25 >>And then number two what is love? 57:26 So let's just say we get that right. 57:28 We put God first but who is God? 57:30 What is love? 57:31 Let's identify love at its source. 57:33 Because we can get a wrong conception of what love is even 57:38 though we have the right order. 57:41 That love comes first from God in order. 57:43 >>Okay so what is love? 57:44 >>So what is love? 57:45 Love defined First Corinthians chapter 13 is other 57:47 centeredness. 57:48 It's selfless. 57:51 It's putting the other person. 57:52 It's projecting out rather than projecting in. 57:54 >>Yeah. 57:56 >>And that can only come from another source because 57:57 >>Yes. 57:58 >>All of us by nature are selfish. 57:59 >>That's right. 58:01 >>We're all thinking first. 58:02 >>We're wired for self-preservation. 58:03 >>This has been such a great discussion. 58:05 I have, yeah. 58:06 I thoroughly enjoyed this. 58:07 I've gotten so much out of what we've been talking about. 58:08 We're going to a little bit darker place next. 58:11 We're going to talk about the fall in our next show. 58:13 >>Because God's original plan was thwarted. 58:15 >>Yeah. 58:16 But that will be good too. 58:17 We'll get some good news. 58:18 >>Amen. 58:19 >>Amen. 58:20 >>To receive our free monthly newsletter and a list of Light 58:24 Bearers resources visit us online at lightbearers.org or 58:29 call us toll free at 1-877-585-1111. 58:34 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 58:40 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. |
Revised 2014-12-17