Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000002
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00:01 [Music playing]
00:22 >>Alright guys we've come to the second 00:24 part of our conversation about the big picture of scripture. 00:28 We're just backing up and looking at the landscape of the 00:33 bible. Let's begin with a little 00:35 creative exercise. I don't know if you're gonna 00:37 like this or not. >>I like exercise. 00:39 >>Yeah, ten seconds. Draw the person, your best 00:44 picture of the person to your right. 00:45 >>Ten seconds >>Ten seconds, maybe fifteen. 00:48 >>Okay fifteen seconds. >>I can't even see his face. 00:54 >>Jeffrey I'm drawing you like Picasso style. 00:58 You're gonna see. >>I'm doing your hair right 01:05 now. >>James >>Jeffrey you got 01:08 ten seconds. Over hear like painting a 01:10 >>Our friendship is. >>Sorry about your nostrils 01:12 David. >>Oh don't even worry about 01:13 it. >>Okay that, that. 01:16 >>Time's up. Time's up, Time's - stop. 01:19 >>Well that's actually pretty good Jeffrey. 01:21 >>Okay is it the reveal time. >>That is really good 01:23 [Laughter] >>You wouldn't know. 01:26 >>But you gave him your lips. >>Michael Angelo >>In an 01:28 unusual sort of way that is me >>This is mine right here >>I 01:32 only got the lips right and that was even close. 01:34 >>Is that James? >>I just got the lips right. 01:36 Just the lips that's all. >>What's going on with your 01:38 >>I did the pop art thing. I have a little program here 01:41 that will allow me to sort of, IS that you? 01:44 >>Yeah >>That's a mirror right there my friend. 01:45 >>Okay well no artist at the table, but think about it guys. 01:50 [Laughter] >>No artist? >>No artist at the table. 01:51 >>Clearly. >>You gotta give more time. 01:54 >>We're gonna address another very simple basic question. 01:57 What and who is God? What and who is God? 02:03 I mean you just drew a picture of James, James drew one of me, 02:07 I drew one >>A picture austensively of me. 02:09 >>Yeah, I could, I guess you could say the picture I drew of 02:13 you approximates the identity of David. 02:17 But it comes nowhere near actually communicating the 02:22 totality of the full package that is David. 02:26 >>Got it. >>It's a caricature. 02:29 It's something that comes short of the reality. 02:34 We're gonna look at what is God and who is God and I think 02:38 we're gonna discover that for sure He transcends anything we 02:41 can imagine. >>So, just so I can be clear 02:44 on this. The purpose of the exercise 02:47 then is basically to say that's an aproximation, that's an 02:50 approximation, that's an approximation. 02:52 It's nowhere near the reality and so too in a similar way, 02:58 many of the things that we would think about God or that 03:01 others would think about God are just approaching what God 03:04 really is. >>These are one dimensional 03:07 images. >>Mhm, okay. 03:09 >>Just flat one dimension. Even if we did our very best 03:13 and we had artistic skills and we were to draw out the 03:17 features. If we were to then move from 03:20 flat one dimension to clay or to stone and fashion an image 03:23 in the bible called idolatry we would not be approximating 03:28 what and who God is. >>Okay so I want to just jump 03:30 ahead here. Maybe we'll come back to this 03:32 point but I don't want to lose it. 03:34 And that is that you just mentioned idolatry there. 03:36 And you mentioned image kind of all in the same language and 03:39 I heard somebody say several years ago, actually a good 03:42 friend of ours, Nathan Renner. And I, Pastor Nathan Renner and 03:45 I loved what he said when he said that the reason that God 03:50 is so averse to making images of himself. 03:53 You know, you will not make an image like me. 03:54 No images. No idols. 03:56 And I thought this was such a great insight. 03:58 He said because God has already imaged himself. 04:02 >>Oh yeah >>In mankind. >>Yeah, yeah. 04:05 >>So when God sets out to say hey this is what I'm like it's 04:08 not a golden calf or a stone statute or any other >>It's 04:11 not picture on paper. >>No, exactly. 04:13 It's a living, breathing, intelligent - I know this is 04:16 skipping slightly ahead but that's a good starting point 04:19 for us. That these terrible 04:22 approximations that we've got here. 04:23 These charactures are crass. They're not even close. 04:26 They don't even begin. And that's what an idol is. 04:28 God says, naw, that's not me. Don't, that's an insult to you 04:32 and to me. >>I think there's a sense in 04:37 which we, we can say things about God that get nowhere 04:40 close. And it's just outside of our 04:42 intellectual orbit, so to speak. 04:44 And there are things that we can say about God that are 04:48 absolutely, concretely, fully, true. 04:52 And I mean we're gonna talk about this but I think that in 04:54 the course of the conversation we'll discover both. 04:58 The question is divided into two parts, what is God? 05:00 Then who is God? So what is God? 05:04 What? In other words >>Yeah I got 05:06 that. >>The nature of God when we 05:10 say well what is God versus who is God? 05:12 We're talking about the nature of God versus the character of 05:15 God. >>So the difference between 05:18 what is a human being and who is Jeffrey Risario? 05:20 >>Yeah, that's a good illustration. 05:23 >>So let's, well can I start? >>Go for it. 05:24 >>We good there? Well first of all our first 05:27 conversation was about the bible and we talked about how 05:30 the bible is a story. And it's a love story. 05:35 In my view, and I think that we would all agree with this. 05:37 There's really kind of two ways that God makes himself 05:40 known to us. What we might call general 05:42 revelation. And special revelation. 05:45 Now what I mean by general revelation is this idea that 05:49 it's a revelation of who God is and what God is that's 05:51 generally available. Nature, our own intuitive 05:55 sense, this is something that you don't have to have a bible. 05:59 People down through the ages have had pictures of God. 06:01 They've known there was a God. So that's sort of that 06:03 picture. And that picture can be 06:06 sometimes accurate, sometimes clouded, like you were just 06:08 saying. But then special revelation is 06:10 God's word to us. >>Yeah, yeah. 06:12 >>He's saying okay that's close and you're on the right 06:16 track or you're way off there. God knows that because we see 06:18 through a glass darkly because of the nature of, because of 06:21 the nature of nature, that is to say it's fallen. 06:24 God says okay so here's how I am. 06:27 Here's how I interact. Here's how I relate. 06:30 This, so this is special revelation. 06:32 And if that's the case then, then who and what God is our 06:37 textbook is going to be God's revealed word. 06:40 >>Yeah, yeah >>In the word being his revealed expression 06:45 of who he is, I think if I can drop a verse. 06:49 It's important to acknowledge the limitations. 06:52 >>Yeah, for sure. >>Because by definition God, 06:57 there is mystery in that. >>Of course. 06:59 >>By definition. >>Lots of mystery >>Yes, even 07:02 with the special revelation. >That's what I'm, well it's 07:05 from the special revelation that we're reminded remember 07:09 sort of like Moses by the burning bush. 07:13 Take your shoes off because you are on holy ground here. 07:15 But in Deuteronomy 29 in verse 29, I'll just read this here. 07:19 >>Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament, right? 07:21 >>Yep, fifth book. Deuteronomy 29 verse 29 07:26 there's and interesting verse here that is very important for 07:31 us to always keep in mind. Because if we don't understand 07:34 the parameters then we can cross the line and >>Oh I love 07:36 this. >>enter into mysterious. 07:39 The secret things belong to the Lord our God. 07:43 But those things which are revealed belong to us. 07:48 And to our children forever that we may do all the words of 07:51 this law. >>There are things we don't 07:55 know and >>That's okay >>can't know >>And that's okay 07:57 >>What did you say can't? >>Yeah, there are things >>I 07:59 would say can't >>I heard an illustration, saw an 08:01 illustration one time. See if you guys agree with 08:03 this. If you draw a circle and that 08:08 circle you say >>back to drawing. 08:11 >>You say, yeah, represents the whole universe. 08:13 Okay we'll just put a U there and the universe itself is 08:19 composed of, you know. We have space. 08:21 We have time. We have matter. 08:24 And if that circle >>You just spelled the word must. 08:26 >>Oh, I didn't. Okay. 08:28 [Laughter] >>So, so if this circle represents the totality 08:33 of created reality. All of reality in the whole 08:35 universe and we ask the question in relation to that 08:38 circle, where is God? >>Okay >>The answer would 08:44 have to be outside of the circle. 08:49 >>Right >>Because, because God, his nature what God is. 08:53 God made all of this. >>He can't be, he can't exist 08:56 within it if he was the creator of it. 08:58 But it, but it has to be something he him self 09:01 >>transcends >>He can chose to go inside >>Yeah, yeah >>Yeah 09:03 that's right >>He can come in to communicate with us but I 09:10 like to say it this way. That' God is not present in all 09:16 nature but present to everything. 09:20 So this omnipresence idea, God is present to us but he's not 09:24 in everything. That's panthyism, the idea that 09:27 God actually is composed of the totality of te material 09:30 reality. I mean we can go so far. 09:32 The bible says in two scriptures I think of the one 09:36 in Titus 1. For example you put in the 09:38 circle time, right. >>Right >>It says there that 09:42 God did this and this and this before time. 09:44 >>Time began >> Before time began. 09:47 So time itself is a created reality. 09:51 God made time. So he has to transcend it. 09:54 God's eternal. He transcends space, time, 09:57 matter. He transcends all of it. 10:00 >>So you're saying a lot there. 10:03 I've got several questions I want to ask. 10:05 And maybe I'm misunderstanding or maybe I am understanding. 10:07 First of all when you say that God is present in the universe, 10:10 no excuse me that God is present to the universe but not 10:13 present in, in terms of being a part of it. 10:15 >>Right. >>Are you talking there like 10:18 in terms of what you might call adjacency? 10:21 >>Yeah adjacency >>So like I'm here, Jeffrey's there 10:24 >>I'm to David but I'm >>But we're different >>That's right 10:27 >>I'm not inside of him >>God is distinct from what he's 10:28 made. >>okay that's the point. 10:30 >>That's the point. He is not what he made, right? 10:33 So, so when we >>So, so now let me just quickly pause here. 10:36 This is exactly what Genesis says. 10:38 I mean the opening verse of the bible makes this illustration 10:40 right here clear. Because it says in the 10:42 beginning God. So this, there isn't this. 10:45 >>Yeah >>In the beginning >>That's an excellent point. 10:48 >>So there's the created this >>That's right >>You have 10:50 adjacency >>And he can't be that because he pre - predates 10:53 that. >>That's right >>But there's 10:55 another point I think is very powerful too. 10:57 He said that God can at any time step into that. 10:59 >>Yeah >>Now if you read Hebrews chapter 1 and that's 11:02 there's a couple verses here that are really powerful. 11:04 But the one I'm thinking of is verse 3. 11:06 >>That's funny because in our first conversation we read 11:08 verses >>1 and 2 >>I think verses 1 and 2 and now we're in 11:11 verse 3 >>Now verse 3 and the question we're talking about 11:13 discussing is what and who is God. 11:15 So here verse 3 says the Son is the radiance of God's glory in 11:21 the exact representation of his being. 11:23 So the Son, so we talked about >>As in Jesus? 11:27 >>Yeah we talked about special revelation. 11:30 This would be special, specific revelation. 11:33 This is God himself stepping into, you look at this again 11:37 and you saw that God is out here. 11:39 Here is creation. God now, in the person of his 11:43 Son, he steps into creation. >>Absolutely >>And everything 11:46 I see in the Son is God. Who is God? 11:50 Well look at Jesus. >>Another verse that comes to 11:52 mind along those very same lines and again maybe we're 11:55 just jumping the gun slightly. But is it Colossians 1 around 11:58 verse 20 where Paul says that in Christ dwells the fullness 12:03 of the God head, bodily. So I think at this point if 12:08 we're sort of, in my mind we're moving through in a systematic 12:10 way. What our point up to this 12:14 point is, that God is a being that is mysterious. 12:17 Just by His very nature. And He's also a God that is not 12:22 - He is not the universe. He has made the universe. 12:26 >>Yeah, Yeah >>I mean, think about it. 12:28 I'm a created being. You're a created being. 12:32 We have certain, a certain range of perception that is 12:37 limited to what we are. We can't know what is outside 12:45 of the orbit of time and space. For example when a person asks 12:51 the question what is God? I have to say I don't know what 12:55 God is because the what question. 12:58 You could say it this way what is God made of? 13:00 And immediately the language falls. 13:04 The language is not sufficient >>Of course >>For the thing 13:06 what is God made of? Well He's not made of anything. 13:09 >>He is. >>Yeah >>And in the beginning 13:12 God, it doesn't, it doesn't give any other explanation. 13:15 It assumes >>That's a great point >>It assumes He's 13:16 already there. The story begins with He's 13:19 there. >>The language for that right 13:22 there. The language that philosophers 13:25 use for that is, that's what's called a first principle. 13:27 Or a basic reality. Basicality. 13:29 It's the idea that this is assumed. 13:32 >>Irreducible >>It's irreducible. 13:34 There's no first cause. In the beginning God. 13:38 Okay that's declared. Okay now who is and scripture 13:41 spends infinitely more time. I'm just speaking figuratively 13:44 here. A lot more time on who God is 13:47 and comparatively little time on what God is because we lack 13:52 the intellectual capacity to even grasp. 13:55 What are we talking about here? When you talk to me about, you 13:58 say oh, there's my friend. His name is Mark. 14:00 You need to meet Mark. He's a really nice guy. 14:01 Okay I have a picture in my mind. 14:03 Mark has two arms. He has two legs. 14:05 He has, I can get a general picture of Mark. 14:08 Even if I have never met Mark. If you say what is God? 14:13 Well what image do I get in my mind? 14:14 Well as we've already said here the closest image that we 14:18 have is >>Jesus >>Well yeah, and human beings. 14:21 Let us make man in our image. >>James read Jesus is like 14:26 the fullness >Express image >>And that doesn't mean that 14:30 God ha - the point that it's making there let's make man in 14:34 our image. It's not primarily that God has 14:37 ten finger and God has a nose and God has ears. 14:39 I'm not denying that there's a physical element to God's 14:41 reality because the bible reveals that. 14:43 But it's saying things like mankind, Adam and Eve were 14:47 moral beings. God is a moral being. 14:50 Discerning between right and wrong. 14:52 Mankind is an intellectual being. 14:55 God is an intellectual being. Mankind is a creational being. 14:57 He creates. God is a creator. 14:59 >>Volitional >>Volitional. He can chose to do things. 15:02 Mankind, God said to them exercise sovereignty over the 15:06 Garden of Eden. God is sovereign over the 15:08 universe. >>Emotional, we're emotional 15:10 beings. >>Exactly >>That should tell 15:12 us something about God. >>So it is in this sense, in 15:16 this moral sense that we are made in the image of God. 15:18 Now there are certainly are pictures in scripture of God as 15:22 a physical reality. But I think we would >>Eyes 15:25 of the Lord run to and fro >>The eyes of the Lord, finger 15:28 of the Lord >>Yeah >>Wrote, you know, on tablets of stone, 15:30 the Ten Commandments. But that's not to say God is 15:34 confined by that physicality but he can go into the earth. 15:37 He can manifest in these physical ways. 15:40 >>Yeah, yeah, I think that's incredible. 15:43 I have often wondered in my mind how long God existed, for 15:47 example. And then immediately I say I 15:50 don't know. And then the next moment I say 15:55 wrong question. I can't even - how long 15:59 implies time. Your brain just begins to 16:01 wobble. What do you mean how long? 16:03 Well he's existed forever. What does that mean? 16:07 Because to my mind, to your mind, that involves days, 16:12 weeks, months, years. >>You time it >>Yeah it 16:15 involves time. And God transcends all of that. 16:19 >>In some significant way God transcends the very things that 16:24 we take for granted and help us to make sense of reality. 16:27 So you've probably heard this proverb before. 16:30 A little sort of a riddle. But I think it's quite clever. 16:32 And the question is sometimes asked do fish know that water 16:36 exists? And the answer to that would 16:41 probably have to be no, right? Because if a fish is, 16:44 especially like imagine a deep sea fish. 16:46 It's born in water. It lives in water. 16:49 It breathes in water. It's whole reality is water. 16:53 The only way it could really ever know what water is by way 16:55 of comparison would be to experience dry. 16:57 And then to come, oh, so this is that and that is this. 17:00 So for us right now, just try to imagine a world without time 17:02 and space. >>We can't >>You can't 17:04 because you're stuck in time and this is your reality. 17:07 So at that level this is why the verse that you read us in 17:09 Deuteronomy verse 29 is so powerful. 17:12 The things that are revealed they are for us and our 17:14 children. The things beyond that, those 17:17 are the Lord's. >>Okay we gotta push the pause 17:20 button and take a break. But this is a great >>Already 17:23 man I feel like we were just warming up. 17:25 >>I'm loving this and we're gonna come back and just launch 17:27 right into who is God. 17:43 But I knew that there was some definable picture of God in his 17:47 head. Who is literally the kind of. 17:51 I don't know how anyone can believe in such a God. 18:04 Not too long ago I had a super interesting encounter on a 18:07 flight out of Denver as I took my seat and began reading 18:11 whatever book I happened to have with me it became obvious 18:14 that the guy sitting next to me was looking over my shoulder 18:18 and catching a few glances of whatever it was. 18:20 He must have saw the word God or some religious terminology 18:24 because rather casually the guy leaned over and he says looks 18:28 like an interesting book. But then after a short pause 18:31 just bluntly out of nowhere the guys says, but I'm an atheist. 18:35 Well evidently he was an outgoing guy looking for some 18:38 conversation. So I said actually I'm an 18:42 atheist too. Clearly he was a little 18:44 surprised no doubt because of the book I was reading. 18:47 He was like, seriously. You're and atheist? 18:50 Yeah, absolutely I told him. Then I threw him and 18:53 unexpected curve ball. I said describe for me the God 18:57 you don't believe in. He was jolted, to say the 19:01 least, by the question. But I knew that there was some 19:05 definable picture of God in his head that gave rise to his 19:09 atheism. But he went silent so I 19:12 figured conversation over. But then after thinking for a 19:20 moment or two the guy opens the conversation again. 19:23 And he says you know what I mean. 19:26 A super powerful, supreme being, presiding somewhere in 19:29 the sky, that rules over us with absolute control. 19:32 He paused again. And then he just plowed forward 19:36 man. He just let it all out. 19:39 You know before we're born this God decides who gets to go 19:41 to heaven. forever. 19:45 Of course, we have no say in the matter because he's mister 19:48 almighty God. His universe so how dare 19:50 anybody question him. He can do whatever he jolly 19:53 well pleases. Well he was on a roll now 20:00 doing a great job of defining his atheism and mine too. 20:05 It's all utter nonsense, he went on. 20:08 And we're supposed to love this tyrant. 20:11 I don't even like him. And I'm pretty sure that liking 20:14 someone has got to come before loving them. 20:19 It's more like a monster than a God. 20:22 I was right with this guy. I have to tell you. 20:24 Just right with him. Yeah I totally agree I said. 20:30 It's a pretty diabolical picture, huh. 20:32 Yeah, he said. I don't know how anyone can 20:36 believe in such a God. Me neither, I agree. 20:40 I certainly don't. I don't believe in the 20:43 existence of any such God as you just described. 20:47 But I want to ask you another question. 20:54 I mean hypothetically, just for the sake of discussion. 20:56 What if a God the exact opposite of the one you just 21:02 described could exist? Would you want him to? 21:07 He was jolted again just thinking about the idea. 21:11 What do you mean, he says? Like what? 21:16 So I offered a totally different picture. 21:20 Well what if a God could exist who is nothing but total 21:23 goodness, perfectly just, perfectly merciful to everyone 21:26 all the time? A God who always does the right 21:31 thing toward every person. A God who would literally give 21:36 everybody total freedom to decide their own destiny and 21:41 never in a million years torture anybody who didn't 21:44 agree with him. What if a God could exist who 21:49 is literally the kind of person who would rather die than 21:54 commit an injustice against any person? 21:57 I mean if a God like that could exist would you want him to? 22:01 I could see that this was totally new territory for him. 22:05 But after thinking for just a few seconds he said what any 22:11 rational person would have to say. 22:14 Well sure, he said. I'd be a fool not to, right? 22:16 Yeah right. I agreed with him. 22:19 Then he said but, but no way man we can't just manufacture 22:24 whatever God we want. And I agreed with him again, 22:28 we can't manufacture whatever God we want. 22:32 But he was listening so I elaborated, listen man. 22:37 I totally resumate with your atheism because I find many of 22:41 the popular views of God as repulsive as you do. 22:45 But I believe that the one and only true God is beautiful in 22:50 the extreme. And you said that you would 22:55 want that kind of God to exist if he could. 22:58 Well I simply do believe the very thing that you want to 23:01 believe. So you're not really an 23:05 atheist he says to me. Well actually I am. 23:08 I'm an atheist in the sense that I don't believe in the 23:12 cruel tyrannical God you just described. 23:14 But I do believe in God. But I believe in a God who is 23:18 nothing like the God you don't believe in. 23:22 So as far as I can see you haven't rejected my God because 23:25 the fact is you've never even considered Him. 23:29 I'm asking you to believe in a God of sheer beauty and perfect 23:33 goodness. And I totally commend you for 23:37 not believing in the false God that you were raised to believe 23:41 in. I mean this guy's mental wheels 23:44 were turning. You know what? 23:47 I found that many people who don't believe in God don't 23:51 believe in a particular picture of God. 23:53 A self-serving, threatening tyrant, who wants to either 23:58 control us or damn us. They reject the only option 24:02 they've ever been taught. While somewhere in their 24:06 hearts they desire a God worthy of their love and worship. 24:12 I mean, what if? What if the God who does exist 24:18 is nothing at all like many popular religions portray God 24:23 to be? What if God is love in the 24:27 strongest and most beautiful sense imaginable? 24:31 What if? 24:52 What is God? That was a great conversation; 24:55 we need to make the transition now from what is God to who is 24:58 God? I think the bridge there is 25:05 probably I think, all of us would agree, First John 4:8. 25:09 The three most powerful words that any human being can take 25:11 to their lips. It is the most definitive 25:14 statement regarding, not only the character of God but also 25:18 the nature of God. This is it. 25:20 >>Let me read it. Can I jump in here? 25:22 >>Yeah do it. >>First John 4:8 He who does 25:25 not love does not know God for God is love. 25:28 >>The thing that I love about this statement is it has 25:32 such explanatory power because it's the only statement in 25:35 scripture that purports to describe the entire identity of 25:39 God. The total identity of God. 25:42 Everything else that is true of God is true of God by virtue of 25:46 the fact that God is love. >>Which is amazing when you 25:49 >>When you think about what we've just talked about, 25:54 described. All of creation is in this big 25:56 circle and then you've got God outside the circle. 25:58 You've got everything that we can ever imagine and stuff we 26:02 can't even imagine. And so you're trying to 26:04 describe the being that created all the stuff in the universe 26:08 who transcends all of that and stands outside of it. 26:11 And you're trying to describe that being and you can do it in 26:13 three words. And be accurate and be 26:16 inclusive. Of everything. 26:19 >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so some people >>But, but wait a 26:21 minute. The point here is, you say that 26:23 is deep. The point here is that word 26:25 love. To be able to say God is love 26:28 and capture everything says a lot about that word. 26:30 As well as the fact it describes him. 26:33 >>And say God is loving >>Yeah, it's a noun. 26:35 God is love. >>He is love, He's love 26:37 personified. >>because love is so cheap. 26:40 Love is so insignificant. I love >>Tacos >>Yeah and 26:43 yet God is love. >>I love tacos >>So the word 26:47 has been cheapened. >>Yes, >>It's been reduced to 26:48 basically something that's been drained of its meaning in our 26:53 culture at least. So what does the bible mean? 26:56 >>That's a modern phenomenon. We can't take our modern 26:59 version or versions of what love is and apply it to the God 27:03 is love sentence. >>Exactly >>That's an 27:05 equivalence >>Here's the idea >>That's an equivalence >>If 27:08 we need to know what, we've talked about what this part is. 27:12 This God thing. We say we don't really know 27:15 >>What God is >>But now we, okay so what is that thing? 27:18 What is love? >>That's the point. 27:20 I mean think about it. If we're actually trying to 27:22 understand what God is and God is love. 27:25 Our journey is not just trying to discover what God is. 27:28 It's also trying to discover what love is. 27:30 What true love is? What is love? 27:32 >>And you can only find that through God. 27:34 >>Is there anything that >>That's John's point. 27:36 John says if you don't love. You don't know God. 27:38 That's the thing that God is. >>And the thing that everybody 27:41 sings about on the radio. The thing that all the movies 27:44 are about. Everything is about trying to 27:46 figure out the love thing. >>Yeah >>But the world is 27:49 trying to do it without first visiting the definition which 27:51 is God. >>Well in the culture in which 27:54 the statement is written God is love. 27:57 John chose a very specific word that was not invogue in 28:00 the Greek vernacular. It was a word that, that, that 28:07 was there >>Imported >>Yeah it was for this >>Basically 28:09 the popular word for love at the time was Eros from which we 28:14 get words like erotic. It's aesthetic love. 28:18 In other words, I love you because of what you do for me. 28:22 There's something. Maybe, maybe I like the way 28:25 you look so I derive pleasure from your appearance or maybe I 28:27 like your talents because they entertain me. 28:30 Or maybe I like, you see where I am going with this? 28:35 >>A lot like our world now >>I love you because you are a 28:37 value to me. So really what I am saying is I 28:39 love me and you are the channel through which I am focused on 28:43 myself. >>It's an economic love. 28:45 Isn't it. >>Yeah it is. 28:48 >>I love you as long as you keep me. 28:50 If you're contributing something to me then I like 28:52 that. I love that. 28:54 >>But what if that winds down? What if I get old and ugly? 28:58 >>What if I'm no longer aesthetically pleasing? 29:03 >>Which takes us to the biblical definition of love? 29:06 I mean God is love. We looked at that. 29:07 >>Go ahead, go ahead. >>The biblical definition of 29:09 God actually, of love actually takes us to a fuller 29:12 understanding of God. First Corinthians chapter 13 29:15 has this. It's a whole chapter on what is 29:17 love. But it has this one little 29:19 center that really focuses in. Let me just read those verses 29:22 in Second or First Corinthians 13 beginning with verse 4. 29:26 Love is, so God is love. Love is, I'm going to put in 29:31 there God is. Is that okay? 29:33 >>Sure >>God is patient. God is kind. 29:36 God does not envy. He does not boast. 29:39 He is not proud. God does not dishonor others. 29:43 God is not self-seeking. God is not easily angered. 29:47 God keeps no record of wrongs. God does not delight in evil 29:52 but rejoices with the truth. God always protects, always 29:56 trusts, always hopes and always perseveres. 30:00 >>That's the gospel right there. 30:03 >>That is beautiful >>That's the gospel right there 30:06 >>Beautiful, beautiful >>So in reality you can look through 30:08 the bible and every time the word love occurs you can just 30:11 replace it with the word God. >>Well >>And vice versa. 30:13 >>You'd probably have to be a little bit careful with that. 30:15 In other words, I don't think you'd want to >>Not every 30:17 single, right >>Wait a minute, we almost lost something there. 30:20 We began by saying it was a Greek word. 30:23 >>Yeah that's what I wanted to >>We chose not to use the word 30:26 Eros which was the popular word like love. 30:29 Like I love tacos. I love my wife, in our culture 30:31 and there's just no distinction. 30:34 They deliberately chose not to use the popular vernacular. 30:36 Eros, they chose a word that was not in common use. 30:40 And that word was Agape. Agape is, I mean, what's the 30:46 best way to describe it. It's unilateral love I guess. 30:50 It's God loves you. God loves me. 30:54 Because of what God is and who God is. 30:57 It's not condition >>It's disinterested love 31:00 >>Disinterested love, yeah. It's not dependent >>Selfless 31:02 >>On something that's being derived from you. 31:06 So if you fail. God's love does not turn down 31:11 like a dimmer switch in the dining room. 31:14 If you succeed it doesn't turn up. 31:17 He doesn't ever love you more because of the good things that 31:20 you do. Or less because of the bad 31:22 things you do. God is love. 31:24 >>For him to stop loving you. 31:26 He would need to cease to exist. 31:29 >>Stop being who he is. >>Yeah >>Or completely >>I 31:31 don't know where this verse is but there's a verse that says 31:34 God cannot deny himself. >>Yes >>Isn't there. 31:36 It doesn't mean self-denial. It doesn't mean God is 31:38 self-denying. It means God cannot deny >>Or 31:42 He is >>reality of who He is >>to His character >>That God 31:46 is love and He can't deny that reality. 31:49 He will always act in concert with it. 31:51 >>You know can I take us down a different road related. 31:54 Related to this concept of God is love and it goes back to the 31:59 beginning in Genesis there's a very, very interesting concept 32:05 here about the plurality of God. 32:08 Because in Genesis chapter 1 the first verse it says in the 32:13 beginning God. And then it describes God's 32:15 creative activity. But when you read verse 26 32:18 there's like a curve ball and it's connected to this idea of 32:22 God being love. It says in verse 26 Genesis 1 32:29 the God said >>Let us 32:31 >>Yeah let us. 32:33 It says let us make men in our image according to our 32:39 likeness. >>Wow, so somebody's talking 32:43 to somebody. >>There's plur - that's 32:46 obvious. All plural pronouns 32:47 >>Yeah, but it says, then God 32:50 >>Singular >>Seemingly 32:52 singular >>It's Elohim, it's 32:54 not singular >>And then it's 32:56 >>That's why I say seemingly singular because in the English 32:58 it's God. It's in the singular. 33:01 But the Hebrew there is Elohim >>Right, which, that, I don't 33:04 know what the proper language is for that but it's God 33:07 introducing himself the first time in scripture and basically 33:11 through the usage of that name kind of speaking to us. 33:15 Saying there's more than one and yet there's one. 33:19 >>yeah >>It makes sense 33:22 because if God is not self-seeking. 33:24 If God is love by definition there has to be more than just 33:27 the one. >>Oh exactly 33:29 >>When you think about it Elohim is used some 33:32 two thousand times in the bible to represent God. 33:35 It's used in Genesis. It's used in Isaiah 6, you 33:36 know. God says to others, who will go 33:40 for us? And Isaiah says I'm here, send 33:43 me. I mean it's used over and over 33:45 again to designate more this selflessness. 33:49 This other centeredness. >>Yeah, yeah 33:52 >>I think if I could just even drawing here. 33:55 So let me just make a quick drawing. 33:58 If you could just imagine. This line here down the middle 34:00 of the paper represents precreation. 34:03 I'll just write pre here. And then I'll just put here 34:06 post or after. So this line represents God by 34:11 himself quote, unquote before creation. 34:14 Before those first four words of the bible or first few words 34:17 in the beginning God created. And then over here is after he 34:20 started making the earth. And making angels and galaxies 34:24 and stars and >>And humans 34:26 >>So here's God over here quote by himself in the preworld. 34:29 And it's true that God is love here just as it's true that is 34:34 God is love here. God is not loving, which is 34:36 what he would become after he made something on which to 34:40 bestow his love. But he's more than loving. 34:43 He's love in his very nature. In his very essence. 34:45 Which means then that there had to be some object on which 34:49 to bestow his love. Some object toward whom he 34:53 could not be self-centered. >>To be a receiving end. 34:55 >>That's right. And that object, according to 34:57 what we're seeing here in Genesis 1, which is why you 35:00 took us there is found within the very nature of God himself. 35:03 So God is introduced to us, we would say it this way and this 35:07 is one of the beautiful, most beautiful pictures of God. 35:10 In fact it is the most beautiful picture of God of all 35:13 the competing pictures. And that is that God is a 35:16 family. He is a plurality, Father, Son 35:22 and Holy Spirit. These three coexisting together 35:25 in a selfless reality of other centered love. 35:29 >>When I was in Thailand teaching at a university one 35:32 time, the teachers took me aside and said, you know, you 35:36 need to understand that 80% of these students are Buddhist and 35:40 they don't believe in the Any kind of third person kind 35:47 of being that's separate from what we are. 35:51 And they said it's not really gonna work if you just start 35:56 quoting the bible. The bible doesn't mean 35:58 anything to them. So I began by just asking them, 36:02 I said, I just want you guys to chat with one another and I 36:05 just want to ask you a question. 36:07 What is the most important thing in life? 36:09 What's the most significant thing in life? 36:10 Go. And they just started 36:12 chattering in their own language. 36:14 And they were laughing. And then I stopped them and 36:17 said, so what's the most important thing? 36:20 Well they joked a little bit. Video Games, you know. 36:22 Whatever, TV, funny stuff. Then I said ok seriously 36:25 what's the most important thing in life. 36:27 And every one of them said, family, friends or 36:32 relationships. Every single one of them. 36:34 At that point I simply said wouldn't it be strange if the 36:39 very thing that you intuitively know is the most important 36:43 thing of life turned out to be fundamentally disconnected from 36:49 reality as a whole? What if you are by nature a 36:53 relational being and ultimately your heading for a 36:56 non-relational future? What if, on the other hand, you 37:01 hail from a nonrelational past? Just merge with the cosmos, 37:07 came out of the cosmos? Immediately it began to make 37:09 sense to them that wait a minute. 37:13 I'm relational so reality itself must be fundamentally. 37:17 >>Relational >>Relational 37:19 >>And that was, it was just a very easy bridge to go straight 37:21 from there and to say, well let me read one bible verse to you 37:24 and see if it makes sense it that context. 37:26 John 15:15 where according to this text God became human. 37:31 And said I want one thing from you. 37:35 I want you to be my friends. They were saying throughout 37:37 the classroom is that God he's talking about? 37:41 Yeah God says I came all the way from heaven to earth into 37:45 your world because I want to build a relationship with you. 37:48 And we were off to the races after that. 37:53 They were so engaged. And what else does this book 37:55 have to say? >>I love the idea and it's so 37:57 true, not only did those students in Thailand understand 38:00 it. Every human being understands 38:03 that at its most fundamental nature. 38:06 Its most fundamental basic core. 38:09 Reality is relational. That's what makes life 38:11 beautiful. That's what makes it 38:14 meaningful, important. That's what reality is all 38:16 about. Think about Facebook here just 38:18 for a moment. Mark Zuckerberg makes his 38:20 billions of dollars. But how did he make his money? 38:23 Not by creating a social network. 38:26 But by creating a means by which to access something that 38:29 was already there. Right he just gave us a modern 38:32 mechanized way to tap into something that we all 38:35 intuitively want. We want to be connected. 38:37 And what we're learning here is the reason we long to be 38:41 connected. Is God himself within his own 38:44 nature is a connection. He is a family. 38:48 He is a relationship. And he made us in his image. 38:51 >>That's so beautiful, so incredible. 38:54 You read Genesis Chapter 1 in the beginning Elohim, that is 38:58 in the beginning love. In the beginning a relational 39:01 God existed. And then created everything. 39:03 What about John 1? >>Hmm 39:06 >>In the beginning was the word and the word was with 39:09 God and the word was God. The same was in the beginning 39:12 with God. If you do just a little bit of 39:14 editorial sculpting, take out some of the words. 39:16 Basically within the quote marks the scripture says in the 39:19 beginning God was with God. I mean it wouldn't make any 39:25 sense for me to say, hey you guys I just want you to know 39:27 that yesterday I was with me. >>Because 39:32 >>It makes no sense 39:35 >>You're a singular being. 39:37 But you could say yesterday I was with my wife. 39:40 >>Yeah, that's right. >>And you are both Gibson's. 39:41 >>That's right. >>But you are two persons. 39:44 >>Isn't that incredible? >>So how do you feel about 39:46 that, the word God being equivalent to our last name? 39:49 >>Well that's what David is saying. 39:50 It's God's family >>Family 39:52 name the word God >>Elohim 39:55 >>Elohim is the family name >>Is the equivalence, that's 39:57 probably the safest way to say it. 40:00 Is the equivalence of our family. 40:02 >>Yeah that makes sense. >>I could introduce myself to 40:04 you and say pleased to meet you I'm Ty's. 40:06 >>Right >>That would make no 40:09 sense because I'm a singular person. 40:11 But as David was saying there is a plural dimension to Ty's 40:14 reality. Ty's married to a girl named 40:16 Sue. We have three children. 40:19 Together we're the Gibson's. So there's a plural name that's 40:21 applied to my social reality in the inner circle. 40:23 >>So that's why we distinguish between. 40:25 We don't believe in three God's. 40:27 We believe in maybe, how do you feel about this? 40:29 One God, three persons. That's a simple 40:31 >>That's exactly 40:32 >>One God >>That's 40:33 the safest way to say it. >>That's a good, yeah. 40:36 That's a good point to pause on though. 40:38 And I hate to keep doing this but we have to pause. 40:41 And we get to come back. Digma Videos are short, 40:53 engaging messages designed for opening up discussion with 40:56 individuals and groups regarding the character of God. 40:59 As well as for your own personal, spiritual growth. 41:03 For your free DVD sample collection of Digma Videos call 41:06 1-877-585-1111. Or write to Light Bearers, 41:11 37457 Jasper Lowell Rd, Jasper, OR 97438. 41:17 Once again, for your free DVD sample collection of Digma 41:21 Videos call 1-877-585-1111. Or write to Light Bearers, 41:28 37457 Jasper Lowell Rd, Jasper, OR 97438 simple ask for Digma 41:35 DVD 1. >>I want to begin by asking 41:44 what is a bit of a trick question. 41:46 I want to see if I can lure any of you into this us, to the 41:50 wrong answer that feels like the right answer. 41:52 Okay we're talking about what is God and who is God. 41:55 And here is the question. Is it good news that there is a 41:58 God? >>I would have said yes until 42:01 you said [Laughter] 42:03 >>Until he said it was a trick question 42:06 >>Yes do you know what the trick is? 42:07 >>No, I'm gonna say yes just because I don't know what this 42:10 trick is. >>Okay unpack it. 42:13 >>I think the trick is, is it good news that there is a God? 42:16 Well it all depends on the character of that God. 42:19 >>That's the answer. >>There could be a diabolical 42:21 tyrant and that wouldn't be good news. 42:24 >>This is the way I like to say it. 42:26 It's a little bit like asking the question is there good news 42:29 that there is a husband? >>Right 42:31 >>well that totally depends, what kind of a husband 42:34 are we talking about. So if the picture that we've 42:36 painted here in the first two parts of this conversation. 42:39 If this picture is true. Let's just, let's just take a 42:42 moment and breath and say Hallelujah because if this is 42:44 true. This is the best good news 42:47 imaginable. If the universe is built 42:52 around this kind of a being. Oh hallelujah. 42:56 I mean this is really, really, incommunicably good news. 43:00 >>yeah, yeah >>The universe is friendly >>We've been 43:03 talking about the fact back in Genesis that God is a plurality 43:07 of being. That God is a relational 43:10 being. One thing that I've found to be 43:12 really enlightening in scripture is to ask the 43:15 question of so what was God doing in that relational 43:20 environment before we existed? >>Going back to this picture? 43:22 >>Yeah that picture >>So what's he doing over here? 43:25 >>Precreation. What's going on? 43:28 Is God is God actively engaged in anything? 43:30 It's just three verses all throughout on this. 43:32 One is Isaiah 42 and verse 1 and this is where God the 43:37 Father is speaking. >>What verse was that? 43:40 >>Isaiah 42 verse 1 this is where God the Father is 43:43 describing an aspect of his relationship with the Son. 43:46 Jesus is prophesied of here, as the Messiah who is going to 43:49 come into the world. And the Father is telling us 43:51 who this is to Him. And He says in verse 1 behold 43:55 my servant, whom I uphold. My elect one in whom my soul 44:02 delights. >>Yes >>Isn't that something? 44:05 So when God is describing the one that he's sending. 44:09 The one that's coming into the world. 44:12 He says I just want you to know that this is one in whom I 44:15 delight. This is the one in whom I take 44:17 great pleasure, great relational pleasure. 44:21 There's something going on. >>Great joy. 44:24 >>Between the Father and the Son in which, could we say it 44:26 this simply? They enjoy one anothers 44:29 company. There's something going on 44:32 there that's relational. And it involves delight. 44:34 Okay. The second scripture that I 44:36 want to bring to your attention is in Zechariah, Zechariah 44:39 chapter 13 verse 7. This is also the Father who's 44:42 doing the articulating here about the Son. 44:46 The Son is going to come into our world and he's going to be 44:48 the Savior and sacrifice for mankind. 44:51 And God is describing that horrible painful experience 44:56 that Jesus is going to undergo. And He says in verse 7 awake 44:58 oh sword, God the Father is speaking, awake oh sword 45:02 against my shepherd. Against the man who is my 45:05 companion. So God describes Jesus as my 45:09 companion. One version says the one who is 45:14 close to me. Another version says my 45:17 intimate friend so this is phenomenal if you think about 45:22 it. This is, this is like, you 45:25 know you're sending your child to a foreign country to be 45:29 received by people on the other end. 45:34 You're saying now I just want you to know that the one that 45:37 I'm sending you is my friend. I love him. 45:41 I love her. My son. 45:43 My daughter very much. And this is the nature of my 45:45 relation. I said I had three. 45:48 >>Yeah what's the third one? >>Okay John chapter 1 verse 19 45:50 where the bible describes Jesus' point of origin. 45:54 He comes out of a certain place. 45:59 And the word that the scripture uses is it says that 46:02 no man has seen God at any time except for the one who is in 46:05 the bosom of the Father. So Jesus lands on planet earth 46:09 from where? >>The bosom of the Father 46:13 >>From the bosom of the Father >>It's 18 >>Verse 18 John 1 46:15 verse 18 from the bosom of the Father. 46:18 This is language that is describing the kind of 46:21 relationship that we're talking about in Genesis 1. 46:24 >>Now I just want to make a question rather than a point. 46:26 You say that this is the origin of the Son. 46:28 Does that somehow infer that the Son had a beginning in 46:33 existence. >>Oh absolutely not. 46:35 I'm referring to He comes to earth >>Okay got it >>So he 46:38 came from somewhere to earth >>I knew that that's what you 46:41 meant. I just wanted that to be 46:44 clarified because the very point that we're making here is 46:47 that if the Son is not somehow coeternal with the Father then 46:49 there would be a point at which you couldn't have said God is 46:51 love. >>Right there would be an 46:54 isolated singularity rather than a plural relationship. 46:57 >>Okay >>I like this verse in John 17 the whole of John 1 47:00 kind of builds on this theme. This idea of that oneness in 47:03 unity. Even in a sense refers to it, 47:05 pre. But verse 10 says in NIV of 47:09 John 17 All I have is yours and all you have is mine. 47:14 All I have is yours and all you have is mine. 47:18 >>It's mutuality. >>What's mine is yours. 47:20 What's yours is mine. And then he says the glory has 47:22 come to me through them. In other words, excuse me. 47:26 And glory has come to me through them. 47:30 In other words God is speaking here about not just possessions 47:34 like material possessions. But he's talking here about 47:37 His character >>Attributes >>Attributes, His attributes. 47:40 Everything that I have you have. 47:43 And everything you >>All my attributes >>Yeah all my 47:45 attributes you have. And it's the same thing in 47:48 Philippians. Philippians chapter 2 brings 47:50 out the same idea that Jesus was. 47:52 Well let me just read the verse because I don't want to 47:55 just misquote it or misstate it. 47:56 >>Philippians 2 >>Philippians 2 and begin there with verse 47:59 what 5 I think it is. >>Let this mind be in you? 48:03 >>Yeah >>Is that where you want to be at? 48:06 >>That's the one >>In the form of God >>yes that's it 48:09 right there. >>Read those Jeffrey >>Five 48:12 down to what, how far are you going? 48:14 >>Seven >>I'm looking at the verse 5 let this mind be in you 48:17 which was also in Christ Jesus who being in the form of God 48:20 did not consider it robbery to be equal with God but made 48:24 himself of no reputation taking the form of a bond servant and 48:30 coming in the likeness of men. >>Yeah and the thing is 48:33 that's so beautiful here is who being in the form of God did 48:37 not consider it robbery to be equal with God. 48:39 But made himself of no reputation. 48:42 John 17 all that you have is mine. 48:44 And all I have is you. So when Jesus empties himself 48:47 of his Godhead. Of divinity, become a man. 48:51 He's not abandoning the person of God or who God is. 48:57 But he's revealing more of who God is. 48:59 Because everything I do is you and everything you do is me. 49:02 So God is revealed in this. >>I love verse 6 where it 49:07 says, actually it's a little awkward there the language who 49:10 didn't consider it robbery to be made equal with God. 49:12 I think the simplest way to understand that is that Paul is 49:15 saying that Jesus didn't even have to consider trying to take 49:19 or steal Godhood because he already had it. 49:23 It was his. It was not something to be 49:26 grabbed. It was something in terms of 49:30 his divine attributes to be let go for the purpose of reaching 49:32 us where we are. That's another story. 49:34 But it's part of this story that God does this because He 49:37 loves us >>You know I been part of John 17 here but I've 49:39 been waiting for this point here because in John 17 it 49:43 goes. I think it flows very 49:46 naturally with what you've said so far. 49:47 It says here. Let me find it now. 49:50 >>Verse 24 I hope >>It's verse 23 even better >>Oh 49:54 okay, okay >>It says I in them and you in me that they may be 49:58 made perfect in one and that the world may know that you 50:01 have sent me. And here's my point and have 50:03 loved them as you have loved me. 50:06 >>yeah that's gotta be >>So when you're talking about this 50:09 companionship. This intimacy. 50:12 This love between the Father and the Son and surely the 50:14 Spirit. That's good news for humanity 50:17 because Jesus comes to this world to declare that, that 50:22 intimacy. That love. 50:25 That companionship is being poured on humanity. 50:27 >>And not only to declare it but to demonstrate it. 50:33 >>And to, yeah, that's right. >>I thought you were gonna do 50:35 verse 24 >>gotta do 24 >>Well verse 24 Father I desire 50:37 that they also, whom you have given me. 50:42 They be with me. There's that with concept 50:45 again. With me where I am but that 50:48 they may behold my glory which you gave. 50:50 You have given, which you have given me. 50:53 Now here's the part, for you loved me before the foundation 50:56 of the world. So if we ask the basic 51:00 question hey Jesus what were you doing before you came to 51:04 this world? And going back further what 51:06 we're you doing before creation? 51:08 His simple answer would be I was >>In fellowship with my 51:11 Father >>Yeah I was loving the Father. 51:14 The Father was loving me. >>And he syncs that up in 51:16 verse 26 I have made you known to them and continue to 51:21 make you known in order that the love. 51:23 The love you have for me may be in them. 51:26 And that I myself may be in them. 51:28 >>There it is again >>The love that exists be-within 51:31 >>Okay so we're talking about the Father. 51:33 We're talking about the Son. David mentioned the Holy 51:36 Spirit earlier. So we've got this social unit. 51:40 God is a communitarian type >>Family >>Family, okay. 51:43 So you've got God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 51:47 What do you guys think of this idea. 51:49 I was thinking this through I was thinking why three. 51:52 What do you think of this idea? The number 3 really is the 51:57 minimum numeric value of love. >>Okay I gotta process that 52:02 >>Explain it >>Three is the minimum numeric value of love. 52:06 So far so good. Keep going. 52:09 >>Relationally because think about it. 52:11 If there's just one love can't occur. 52:14 We've already established that. 52:16 Go in the bathroom, lock the door, spend your whole life 52:18 there. You can't experience love. 52:21 It's other centeredness As James read in First Corinthians 52:23 13. Okay so you can't experience 52:26 love as a singular being. But then you add one person 52:28 >>We got two >>Yeah >>It seems like you could have love 52:31 >>You could but there's and exclusive attention. 52:34 I love you and you love me. But watch what happens. 52:36 Did this happen to any of you when >>I know exactly where 52:38 you are going with this >>Where you had a best friend 52:40 and a third party was introduced into the 52:42 relationship. What does that third party 52:46 introduce? Now it's necessary for my love 52:49 to be exclusive and divided. I need to have a selfless 52:56 quality to my love with you that is perfectly happy with 53:00 you loving somebody else. >>You're deferring >>Isn't 53:03 that something >>I love that, you know I love that >>Up to 53:05 recently it was just my wife, it's been my wife. 53:09 And >>You recently had a child. 53:13 Did you >>Not quite but recently we've included a third 53:15 entity, a teenager into our family and so I totally 53:22 resonate with that. It's changed the game. 53:26 It's changes the game. >>This is huge, this is huge. 53:30 Married couples, child comes along. 53:31 It changes the game. >>We run a school here at 53:34 a rise and we have had many instances. 53:36 And this is something that you would've seen in your own 53:38 experience whether in high school or college or whatever. 53:41 But we will sometimes see when the guy develops the interest 53:44 in the girl and the girl for the guy. 53:46 As long as that's healthy and it stays social and it stays 53:48 open that can be good. But we've all seen those 53:50 relationships where it becomes so doting that it's just the 53:54 guy and the girl. And it's as if the rest of the 53:57 world doesn't exist. In a sense, tell me if you 54:01 think there's something to this. 54:04 That, if that was all that love was. 54:06 I understand that for a short time. 54:07 I get that. That itself becomes kind of 54:10 selfish because I have your completely undivided attention. 54:13 You have my completely undivided attention so what 54:15 Ty's saying is three is the, how did you say it? 54:17 The minimum >>The minimum numeric value of love. 54:18 >>Because you introduce now a third party. 54:21 And now I think you are exactly on to something. 54:24 >>This is probably, it is I think in evidence of the truth 54:27 of scripture. The bible conveys this idea 54:29 that God is a relationship between Father, Son and Holy 54:34 Spirit. And that bears testimony to 54:36 the fact that this is an inspired text. 54:39 This is >>You wouldn't have made that up >>No you wouldn't 54:42 have made that up >>If I'm not mistaken Oxford scholar C.S. 54:46 Lewis said something like this that the triune nature of God, 54:49 Father Son and Holy Spirit is either the greats farce ever 54:53 invented or the greatest truth ever revealed. 54:57 >>yeah, yeah >>If this is what reality is like no wonder 55:00 we are so wired for relationality. 55:05 We long for it because God himself >>We have his 55:08 fingerprints on our souls. >>Another thought on this just 55:12 building on this John 7 verse 39, yeah it's okay. 55:16 But especially John >>17? >>John 7:39 >>Oh >>7:39 okay 55:19 >>And especially John chapter 16 >>Oh you're talking about 55:24 the Spirit >>I'm talking about the Spirit and how Jesus 55:27 promised the comforter, the Spirit. 55:30 But not until he was glorified because when the Spirit comes. 55:33 John 16 specifically the Spirit is going to come specifically 55:36 to glorify me. >>Oh that's other 55:39 centeredness >>Check this out we just read John 17 and the 55:43 whole mission of Christ was to glorify the Father. 55:47 So Jesus -- each and every time you hear about precreation 55:52 and through the life of Christ, the Father. 55:56 What is he doing? He is magnifying the Son. 55:58 Listen to Him. I am well pleased in Him. 56:02 This is my Son. >>This is my beloved Son in 56:04 whom I am well pleased. >>So each one continues in 56:06 this and you see the Spirit. To me we think the essence of 56:11 love is God giving his Son. The essence of love is the Son 56:15 dying. Look at the Spirit. 56:17 He's standing in the background the whole time. 56:19 Standing there and in a sense just waiting to just come with 56:21 a mighty rushing wind. Are you getting the feeling? 56:26 >>I got it. >>Ty said something the other 56:30 day, I loved this. When we were doing one of our 56:35 Sabbath school commentaries. He said that the job of the 56:37 Spirit. Scripture says that the job of 56:40 the Spirit is not to talk about himself. 56:43 When he comes he will glorify me. 56:45 He won't speak of himself. He will speak of me. 56:48 Jesus says this over and over again in John 14, 15 and 16. 56:50 So he says if the Holy Spirit held a seminar it would be all 56:51 about Jesus. It wouldn't be a Holy Spirit 56:53 seminar. It would be a seminar all 56:55 >>Oh this is so good we have just merely seconds left. 56:58 >>I just feel this conversation is just starting 57:01 >>yeah, yeah well it's a good thing we are going to continue 57:02 the conversation then. Because as one bible verse 57:07 says God's love is oceanic in one version. 57:12 It's huge, so >>Good way to end >>Yeah we're going to 57:15 continue this conversation. Bottom line is in answer to the 57:18 question what is God? Basic answer, uh, we don't 57:23 know. Outside of our intellectual 57:25 >>We don't fully know. >>We don't know what God is. 57:29 Bottom line answer to who God is. 57:31 God is love. >>Yeah that's right 57:34 >>Glorious good news. And I love that David. 57:36 If God is love ultimately everything is going to work out 57:39 in the universe as friendly in the end. 57:42 And we're headed somewhere really beautiful and really 57:44 great. And yeah that's the bottom 57:47 line. God is love. 57:49 Amen. Praise God. 57:52 >>Love it To receive our free monthly 57:57 news letter and a list of Light Bearers resources visit 58:02 us online at lighbearers.og or call us toll free 58:08 at 1-877-585-1111 you can also write to us Light Bearers, 58:13 37457 Jasper Lowell Rd, Jasper, OR |
Revised 2014-12-17