>> All right guys, we're here
doing a new thing but before
00:00:21.00\00:00:22.66
that, James, you just
got back from somewhere.
00:00:22.66\00:00:24.86
I haven't seen
you in a long time.
00:00:24.86\00:00:26.36
>> Australia, Australia.
00:00:26.36\00:00:27.73
>> So what happened there?
00:00:27.73\00:00:28.80
>> Three weeks.
00:00:28.80\00:00:29.80
Well, I was there
closing out for you guys.
00:00:29.80\00:00:30.90
>> I wish I was there.
00:00:30.90\00:00:31.76
>> Man, I wish I
could have gone there.
00:00:31.76\00:00:32.96
>> You probably have jet lag.
00:00:32.96\00:00:34.30
>> No, not at all.
00:00:34.30\00:00:35.56
I'm actually doing better than
you two because I heard you guys
00:00:35.56\00:00:36.86
were up most of the
night writing sermons and I was
00:00:36.86\00:00:38.86
sleeping most of the night,
you know, took a little couple
00:00:38.86\00:00:41.66
tablets and out I was.
00:00:41.66\00:00:42.90
>> James, you got to see
the graduation of first class --
00:00:42.90\00:00:46.10
>> Arise Australia.
00:00:46.10\00:00:47.43
>> -- Four guys, 2013.
00:00:47.43\00:00:48.66
First class, you got to see
the graduation and not tell us.
00:00:48.66\00:00:51.16
>> Yep, and you
didn't, nani-nani-na-na.
00:00:51.16\00:00:52.83
[Laughs]
00:00:52.83\00:00:53.80
>> That was awesome;
that was really good.
00:00:53.80\00:00:54.70
>> You did not just do that.
00:00:54.70\00:00:55.63
>> [Laughs]
00:00:55.63\00:00:56.40
>> I'm sorry, I did it.
00:00:56.40\00:00:57.43
It was really good.
00:00:57.43\00:00:59.00
>> James is the
oldest person at the table.
00:00:59.00\00:01:00.53
>> Oldest?
00:01:00.53\00:01:01.50
Come on, you did not
just do that, did you?
00:01:01.50\00:01:03.20
>> [Laughter]
00:01:03.20\00:01:04.43
>> Nobody knew I was the oldest
person until you said that.
00:01:04.43\00:01:05.73
>> Well, now everybody knows.
00:01:05.73\00:01:06.83
>> Well, we knew.
00:01:06.83\00:01:07.83
Now, everybody listening knows.
00:01:07.83\00:01:09.36
>> All right, all right.
00:01:09.36\00:01:10.36
>> Well,
Jeffrey is the youngest.
00:01:10.36\00:01:11.26
>> I'm the young buck, yes.
00:01:11.26\00:01:12.13
>> Oh my.
00:01:12.13\00:01:12.96
>> And the most serious.
00:01:12.96\00:01:13.96
>> So, table, we're at a table.
00:01:13.96\00:01:15.06
We're at the
table, we're at the table.
00:01:15.06\00:01:16.13
So what are we
doing at this table?
00:01:16.13\00:01:17.40
>> We're sitting here.
00:01:17.40\00:01:18.26
>> Yeah, we're
having a conversation.
00:01:18.26\00:01:19.13
>> Drinking our water.
00:01:19.13\00:01:20.26
>> We're going to have a
conversation at this table and
00:01:20.26\00:01:21.93
there is a history to
this that goes way, way back.
00:01:21.93\00:01:25.56
We're calling this new
series of programs Table Talk.
00:01:25.56\00:01:29.16
It's appropriate --
00:01:29.16\00:01:30.70
>> I love that
title, by the way.
00:01:30.70\00:01:31.96
>> -- It's appropriate because
we're here as four brothers in
00:01:31.96\00:01:34.16
Christ and students of the word.
00:01:34.16\00:01:35.83
>> And neighbors.
00:01:35.83\00:01:37.06
>> And neighbors to boot and
we're here to explore the word
00:01:37.06\00:01:39.63
of God.
00:01:39.63\00:01:41.50
We're here to
explore the scriptures.
00:01:41.50\00:01:42.83
Martin Luther gathered together
with his friends and explored
00:01:42.83\00:01:47.60
the scriptures and every subject
under the sun at a table.
00:01:47.60\00:01:50.60
>> That's what I like about it.
00:01:50.60\00:01:53.40
I like the idea that Martin
Luther was this preacher guy,
00:01:53.40\00:01:55.96
theological guy, issues, crises,
all this stuff but then there
00:01:55.96\00:02:01.43
were times, I just found out,
that he just sat at a table just
00:02:01.43\00:02:04.50
talking about all these
different issues in society, in
00:02:04.50\00:02:07.10
politics, in
government, whatever.
00:02:07.10\00:02:11.30
>> Relationships.
00:02:11.30\00:02:12.13
>> Yeah.
00:02:12.13\00:02:13.36
>> Notes were taken on those
conversations and there is an
00:02:13.36\00:02:15.76
actual book called table talk.
00:02:15.76\00:02:17.16
Luther and his friends sitting
around a table talking, that's
00:02:17.16\00:02:21.03
what we're going to do.
00:02:21.03\00:02:22.33
>> We're going to try
and emulate that here.
00:02:22.33\00:02:23.66
Now, we don't
have any food, too bad.
00:02:23.66\00:02:24.73
>> No.
00:02:24.73\00:02:26.23
>> But we do have water.
00:02:26.23\00:02:27.23
It's yummy too.
00:02:27.23\00:02:28.76
>> [Laughs]
00:02:28.76\00:02:29.73
>> But, you know,
I'm with James on that.
00:02:29.73\00:02:31.00
I love the idea that, you know,
we sort of have this picture of
00:02:31.00\00:02:33.83
historical figures and not
just Martin Luther but many
00:02:33.83\00:02:35.93
historical figures, especially
spiritual ones as being sort of,
00:02:35.93\00:02:39.13
all they do is
preach; no, they had lives.
00:02:39.13\00:02:42.40
You know, they had to put their
clothes on, they had to walk
00:02:42.40\00:02:44.40
their dog, you know, they
had lives and they would, think
00:02:44.40\00:02:47.20
about it, what are the things
that bring us happiness and joy.
00:02:47.20\00:02:50.10
I love having Jeffrey over, I
love having you guys over to the
00:02:50.10\00:02:52.83
house, sit down, talk,
hang out in the living room.
00:02:52.83\00:02:54.93
>> Listen to new music.
00:02:54.93\00:02:56.36
>> Listen to new music and just
talk about Jesus or whatever.
00:02:56.36\00:02:58.63
>> It's about community.
00:02:58.63\00:03:00.20
Community, creativity.
00:03:00.20\00:03:01.13
>> Community and conversation.
00:03:01.13\00:03:02.93
>> Yeah, conversation.
00:03:02.93\00:03:04.63
>> And we have them
all the time around here.
00:03:04.63\00:03:06.13
>> There's another facet to
that table talk idea with Luther
00:03:06.13\00:03:08.83
going back to the reformation
and that is the concept of the
00:03:08.83\00:03:12.40
priesthood of all believers.
00:03:12.40\00:03:13.96
>> Yes.
00:03:13.96\00:03:15.23
>> I like the fact that we've
decided in this new series of
00:03:15.23\00:03:18.16
programs to sit around a table
as equals, as fellow students of
00:03:18.16\00:03:22.83
the word of God.
00:03:22.83\00:03:23.73
>> And fellow students of life.
00:03:23.73\00:03:25.00
>> Yeah, of life itself,
recognizing that there is in
00:03:25.00\00:03:29.03
fact a priesthood of all
believers, I mean, that's pretty
00:03:29.03\00:03:32.83
high sounding language.
00:03:32.83\00:03:34.10
>> Yeah, I was about to say can
you unpack that a little bit.
00:03:34.10\00:03:36.06
>> Yeah, yeah.
00:03:36.06\00:03:37.26
But Luther and the other
protestant reformers basically
00:03:37.26\00:03:39.13
said that this distinct, this
distinct line between clergy and
00:03:39.13\00:03:43.40
lay people just needs to be --
00:03:43.40\00:03:45.20
>> The holy people
and the other people.
00:03:45.20\00:03:46.83
>> Yeah, the holy people and
the other people, close the gap,
00:03:46.83\00:03:49.06
give the bible to the people and
let everybody read the word of
00:03:49.06\00:03:53.00
God.
00:03:53.00\00:03:53.90
Let's study the
scriptures together.
00:03:53.90\00:03:56.76
So I like this, I love the
fact that we're around a table
00:03:56.76\00:03:59.26
together to
study the word of God.
00:03:59.26\00:04:01.06
>> I love it too and I also like
the idea that even in our modern
00:04:01.06\00:04:04.86
experience, even though we don't
have the hierarchical structure
00:04:04.86\00:04:08.13
against which
Luther was railing.
00:04:08.13\00:04:11.40
That's not exactly the world we
live in whether it was religious
00:04:11.40\00:04:13.96
or civil, kings and popes and
cardinals and all that but it is
00:04:13.96\00:04:17.06
also the case that for different
reasons, for reasons of
00:04:17.06\00:04:20.43
secularism and other things,
that there is a distinction
00:04:20.43\00:04:23.46
between the spiritual thing
and then the rest of the thing.
00:04:23.46\00:04:28.23
>> Yeah, yeah, that's so common.
00:04:28.23\00:04:29.83
>> But the most important,
I mean, as somebody who -- you
00:04:29.83\00:04:32.30
travel and preach, you travel
and preach, you travel and
00:04:32.30\00:04:34.76
preach, I travel and preach and
praise God for that, praise God
00:04:34.76\00:04:37.50
that we get to preach to
thousands every year but isn't
00:04:37.50\00:04:39.53
it true that as much as the
preaching from the front that
00:04:39.53\00:04:43.53
sitting down with your peeps,
sitting down with your friends,
00:04:43.53\00:04:47.63
with former Arise students, with
people that you've ministered to
00:04:47.63\00:04:50.80
before or new friends and just
talking or sharing a meal, that
00:04:50.80\00:04:53.93
is just as spiritual and just as
edifying as any sermon that you
00:04:53.93\00:04:58.86
preach from the front.
00:04:58.86\00:05:00.20
>> Sometimes more so.
00:05:00.20\00:05:01.30
>> Iron sharpens iron.
00:05:01.30\00:05:02.06
>> Yeah.
00:05:02.06\00:05:03.26
>> Bouncing ideas together
develops and expands our own --
00:05:03.26\00:05:06.43
>> Plus, we have our iPads.
00:05:06.43\00:05:07.66
I mean, we're modern now.
00:05:07.66\00:05:09.00
>> We're modern now.
00:05:09.00\00:05:10.00
We're very modern now.
00:05:10.00\00:05:11.06
>> We've got extra weapons.
00:05:11.06\00:05:12.96
>> Hey guys, let's just begin
this series together with a very
00:05:12.96\00:05:16.46
basic and fundamental question.
00:05:16.46\00:05:17.80
>> A series of
conversations, I love that.
00:05:17.80\00:05:20.86
>> Yeah, a
series of conversations.
00:05:20.86\00:05:22.23
>> Okay.
00:05:22.23\00:05:22.90
I'm ready.
00:05:22.90\00:05:23.46
>> What is the bible?
00:05:23.46\00:05:24.43
I mean, the bible is
going to be our text.
00:05:24.43\00:05:25.66
That's where we're
drawing our insight from.
00:05:25.66\00:05:29.46
What is the bible and then after
we talk about what the bible is,
00:05:29.46\00:05:33.50
what's the bible about?
00:05:33.50\00:05:36.20
What's the subject of scripture?
00:05:36.20\00:05:38.26
Is there one subject?
00:05:38.26\00:05:39.53
Maybe it's broader than that but
first of all, what is this book?
00:05:39.53\00:05:41.46
What is the bible?
00:05:41.46\00:05:42.90
>> There is different dimensions
to that question but I think
00:05:42.90\00:05:45.43
that something that will emerge
continually is the whole idea of
00:05:45.43\00:05:49.40
story; that the bible is a
story, it's a narrative and like
00:05:49.40\00:05:53.16
the bumper sticker says,
his-story, capital H-I-S.
00:05:53.16\00:05:58.03
So it's the story of
God's interaction with humanity.
00:05:58.03\00:06:02.56
>> Can I just press just the
quickest of pause buttons there
00:06:02.56\00:06:05.66
and I want you to continue to
develop that Jeffrey, we'll all
00:06:05.66\00:06:07.53
develop it but in my mind
I'm just imagining, I have two
00:06:07.53\00:06:10.43
brothers, two sisters so I come
from a family of five, you come
00:06:10.43\00:06:13.96
from a pretty good family, we
all have brothers and sisters.
00:06:13.96\00:06:16.43
At this present time right now,
my brothers and sisters are not
00:06:16.43\00:06:20.26
strong Christians, some of them
are not Christians at all, and
00:06:20.26\00:06:23.10
as we sort of have this
conversation, in my mind, I want
00:06:23.10\00:06:26.33
this conversation to be
accessible to people like them.
00:06:26.33\00:06:30.80
>> Yeah, yeah.
00:06:30.80\00:06:32.30
>> In other words, not just
Jeffrey the preacher and David
00:06:32.30\00:06:35.36
the preacher and even the people
who are listening in who know
00:06:35.36\00:06:37.23
where first Timothy is and what
Nehemiah is all about, but I'm
00:06:37.23\00:06:40.03
thinking like if my brother is
here at the table or my sister
00:06:40.03\00:06:42.53
is here at the table,
would they understand --
00:06:42.53\00:06:44.93
>> Well I just got a haircut.
00:06:44.93\00:06:47.33
I just sat in a
chair and this --
00:06:47.33\00:06:49.36
>> Looks good, by the way.
00:06:49.36\00:06:50.83
>> -- Thank you.
00:06:50.83\00:06:51.66
>> Not as good as mine.
00:06:51.66\00:06:52.53
Just kidding.
00:06:52.53\00:06:53.80
>> This lady cut my hair and we
just had a conversation and it
00:06:53.80\00:06:57.03
was the real stuff
that life is made out of.
00:06:57.03\00:07:01.43
How many kids do you have?
00:07:01.43\00:07:03.20
How old are they?
00:07:03.20\00:07:04.66
>> What are their names?
00:07:04.66\00:07:05.90
What are they doing?
00:07:05.90\00:07:07.60
>> What are you into?
00:07:07.60\00:07:08.53
I'm into horses,
she said, I love horses.
00:07:08.53\00:07:09.60
And I thought, as we
came to this table, of her.
00:07:09.60\00:07:13.40
I thought of her for the last
few days in fact just thinking,
00:07:13.40\00:07:18.30
wow, she is the kind of person
that I'd love to just get to
00:07:18.30\00:07:22.73
know as a person and then
perchance, God willing and open
00:07:22.73\00:07:28.50
hearts just begin to explore
the word of God together.
00:07:28.50\00:07:31.16
I'd love for us, as
you're saying David, to have a
00:07:31.16\00:07:35.53
conversation that's not just
between the four of us but that
00:07:35.53\00:07:38.06
others can listen in on --
00:07:38.06\00:07:42.20
>> Listen in on.
00:07:42.20\00:07:43.46
>> -- And actually benefit and
gain perspective that will, you
00:07:43.46\00:07:48.03
know, act like
a compass in life.
00:07:48.03\00:07:50.43
>> Because the temptation for
the four of us as preachers and
00:07:50.43\00:07:53.63
as people who have been reading
the bible and studying the bible
00:07:53.63\00:07:55.63
for years, we love this book, is
just going to be to go right up
00:07:55.63\00:07:59.23
to advanced, you know, quick,
quick, quick intense, and praise
00:07:59.23\00:08:04.30
God for that, I think
we'll have time for that.
00:08:04.30\00:08:06.06
That'll emerge but especially as
we start the series I think it's
00:08:06.06\00:08:09.63
crucially important that we
sort of define our terms because
00:08:09.63\00:08:13.40
there's a lot of spiritual
things that just feel really
00:08:13.40\00:08:18.23
inaccessible to people.
00:08:18.23\00:08:19.80
I know when I first became
a believer, 24, 25 years old,
00:08:19.80\00:08:22.56
there's a whole new vocabulary,
there's new books, there's
00:08:22.56\00:08:25.50
places you go.
00:08:25.50\00:08:27.00
The whole thing, you have to get
oriented and let's be honest,
00:08:27.00\00:08:30.20
for some people that learning
curve is just too steep.
00:08:30.20\00:08:32.50
The church is not in
some ways user friendly.
00:08:32.50\00:08:35.30
And so in as much as it's
possible, we're here, we're
00:08:35.30\00:08:38.40
around a table, we're
not sharing a meal but we're
00:08:38.40\00:08:40.23
definitely, we're neighbors, we
love one another, we're inviting
00:08:40.23\00:08:42.93
others to listen in
to this conversation.
00:08:42.93\00:08:44.36
In addition to the conversation
itself, let's model, as much as
00:08:44.36\00:08:47.40
it's possible, how to build
slowly, logically and biblically
00:08:47.40\00:08:53.06
so that at the end, it's
like, oh, I can see that.
00:08:53.06\00:08:55.50
>> And that's why we're starting
with the subject that we're
00:08:55.50\00:08:57.76
starting with.
00:08:57.76\00:08:59.23
>> Yeah, what is
the bible actually?
00:08:59.23\00:09:01.06
>> Let's take
that word conversation.
00:09:01.06\00:09:02.63
I love that as a
definition in a sense.
00:09:02.63\00:09:03.90
In Genesis chapter three, you
have the record of the creation
00:09:03.90\00:09:08.63
1 and 2 and then you have
the fall of mankind in Genesis
00:09:08.63\00:09:11.40
chapter three.
00:09:11.40\00:09:12.66
For a second, we're taken back
to what God originally intended
00:09:12.66\00:09:15.86
for us.
00:09:15.86\00:09:17.13
It says in Genesis chapter three
and, what is it, verse eight?
00:09:17.13\00:09:21.80
My eyes aren't as
good as they used to be.
00:09:21.80\00:09:23.40
>> There's glasses
here if you need them.
00:09:23.40\00:09:24.83
>> Okay.
00:09:24.83\00:09:26.13
Thank you.
00:09:26.13\00:09:27.36
It says, "And they heard the
voice of the Lord God walking in
00:09:27.36\00:09:29.13
the garden in
the cool of the day."
00:09:29.13\00:09:31.23
Okay.
00:09:31.23\00:09:32.16
What does that verse tell us?
00:09:32.16\00:09:33.76
What does that verse tell us?
00:09:33.76\00:09:35.03
It's talking about relationship,
it's talking about conversation.
00:09:35.03\00:09:37.63
God was in the habit of visiting
with us, walking with us in the
00:09:37.63\00:09:43.90
cool of the day after the day
was over and just talking like
00:09:43.90\00:09:45.80
my wife and I have
what's called pillow talk.
00:09:45.80\00:09:47.80
It's pillow talk.
00:09:47.80\00:09:49.70
Yeah, we're done, we're at the
end of the day, we're just lying
00:09:49.70\00:09:53.26
in bed, I'm looking at the
ceiling, she's getting ready to
00:09:53.26\00:09:56.36
go to sleep, I'm looking at the
ceiling -- I said that already,
00:09:56.36\00:09:58.80
didn't I -- and we're
just talking about the day.
00:09:58.80\00:10:01.00
We're just
conversing, we're just talking.
00:10:01.00\00:10:03.66
God was in the
habit was doing this.
00:10:03.66\00:10:05.56
Now, after the
fall, what happens?
00:10:05.56\00:10:08.03
Well, in this context of
Genesis three, Adam and Eve were
00:10:08.03\00:10:11.76
actually hiding
but God hasn't changed.
00:10:11.76\00:10:13.73
>> That's part of
the story, isn't it?
00:10:13.73\00:10:15.23
>> Yes, that's it.
00:10:15.23\00:10:16.50
>> So you're kind of mid-way in
the story but I appreciate why
00:10:16.50\00:10:18.23
you're going there because
you're saying that the intent,
00:10:18.23\00:10:20.53
God's intent is relational and
we're going to spend a lot of
00:10:20.53\00:10:23.83
time on that.
00:10:23.83\00:10:25.10
We have to intentionally infuse
into all biblical, spiritual,
00:10:25.10\00:10:31.03
Christian conversations of
relationality that too often
00:10:31.03\00:10:35.43
it's distant
from the conversation.
00:10:35.43\00:10:37.80
It just becomes a series of do
you believe, do you believe, do
00:10:37.80\00:10:41.10
you accept, do you accept?
00:10:41.10\00:10:42.10
>> Isolated points.
00:10:42.10\00:10:42.93
>> Okay.
00:10:42.93\00:10:43.80
So that's not
what the bible is then?
00:10:43.80\00:10:45.00
What is the bible?
00:10:45.00\00:10:46.26
>> I was the one that sort
of got us off there for a little
00:10:46.26\00:10:48.06
bit, I said I wanted to bring my
brother, my sister, you want to
00:10:48.06\00:10:50.56
bring your hairdresser to
the conversation and others, but
00:10:50.56\00:10:53.16
Jeffrey, you were onto it there.
00:10:53.16\00:10:55.20
>> And that floats with
exactly what I was saying.
00:10:55.20\00:10:57.06
What you've done is brought
the concept of people and
00:10:57.06\00:10:59.90
conversation and relational and
that's where I was going is that
00:10:59.90\00:11:03.06
scripture is a story
and it's the story of God.
00:11:03.06\00:11:08.10
It's the story of God's
interaction with real people in
00:11:08.10\00:11:12.73
real times and in real places.
00:11:12.73\00:11:14.83
>> Well, Jeffrey, I think
there's a reason, a really good
00:11:14.83\00:11:17.06
psychological reason if I
can say it that way, why God has
00:11:17.06\00:11:20.46
chosen to communicate
with us in the form of story.
00:11:20.46\00:11:24.53
I think God is speaking to us in
the form of story because we as
00:11:24.53\00:11:27.93
human beings live story.
00:11:27.93\00:11:29.16
Every one of us, we act, we
relate, we move forward in life,
00:11:29.16\00:11:34.13
the history builds behind us.
00:11:34.13\00:11:35.40
We're all building a narrative,
we're all building a story and
00:11:35.40\00:11:37.93
these little micro-stories are
actually occurring within the
00:11:37.93\00:11:42.30
larger meta-narrative, the
big scope, the big picture story
00:11:42.30\00:11:48.00
that is God's story.
00:11:48.00\00:11:49.73
We as human beings relate in the
form of story so the scriptures
00:11:49.73\00:11:53.10
aren't merely a list of points;
God wants us to actually see his
00:11:53.10\00:11:57.23
actions and interactions so
that ultimately we can envision
00:11:57.23\00:12:01.53
ourselves interacting in the
story and having actual effect
00:12:01.53\00:12:06.56
by the lives that we live.
00:12:06.56\00:12:08.03
>> Which assumes that we
don't live isolated lives.
00:12:08.03\00:12:09.96
And there's so many people.
00:12:09.96\00:12:11.36
I was just in New York City just
yesterday and I flew in and just
00:12:11.36\00:12:16.30
at the airport and the plane and
you're just, you're surrounded
00:12:16.30\00:12:20.86
--
00:12:20.86\00:12:21.86
>> I know exactly
what you're experiencing.
00:12:21.86\00:12:23.13
>> -- By people constantly and
you can just see in their face
00:12:23.13\00:12:25.10
that people are living as if
life was isolated from anything
00:12:25.10\00:12:30.83
else.
00:12:30.83\00:12:32.13
And to me the precious picture
that the bible gives us is, I am
00:12:32.13\00:12:35.73
not in isolation.
00:12:35.73\00:12:38.20
I am part of a narrative and
I'm part of God's story; I'm in
00:12:38.20\00:12:41.83
God's story and I
think that's powerful.
00:12:41.83\00:12:45.26
>> Yeah, we're a lot less
isolated than we even imagine.
00:12:45.26\00:12:47.06
I was just thinking as you were
saying that about that study
00:12:47.06\00:12:50.50
done way back when, that
is called the six degrees of
00:12:50.50\00:12:54.36
separation.
00:12:54.36\00:12:55.63
And the basic idea is that if
you pick any two people on the
00:12:55.63\00:12:58.63
planet, that person knows
someone who knows someone who
00:12:58.63\00:13:02.46
knows someone who knows someone
who knows someone who knows that
00:13:02.46\00:13:05.23
person.
00:13:05.23\00:13:06.03
We're all no more --
00:13:06.03\00:13:07.26
>> And it's usually
much closer than six.
00:13:07.26\00:13:09.26
>> We're linked.
00:13:09.26\00:13:11.56
>> -- Yeah.
00:13:11.56\00:13:12.33
Closer.
00:13:12.33\00:13:13.63
We're all not more than six
steps out from one another so
00:13:13.63\00:13:15.40
everything we do is
impacting the whole.
00:13:15.40\00:13:16.66
It wouldn't be an exaggeration
to say that my little life will
00:13:16.66\00:13:23.13
have eternal effect.
00:13:23.13\00:13:24.16
>> Yeah.
00:13:24.16\00:13:25.40
The thing -- you are onto it
right there and you are onto it
00:13:25.40\00:13:29.46
-- something that I've been
saying a lot lately, in fact,
00:13:29.46\00:13:32.50
just over the course of the last
month is that this thing that
00:13:32.50\00:13:35.53
we're experiencing right here,
this thing we call life, reality
00:13:35.53\00:13:39.06
is itself relational.
00:13:39.06\00:13:42.30
Right, now just
think about that.
00:13:42.30\00:13:44.66
We tend to think of reality
as physical or you know, there
00:13:44.66\00:13:48.80
certainly is a physical
component, no one would deny
00:13:48.80\00:13:50.20
that but the texture of reality,
the feel of reality is there is
00:13:50.20\00:13:55.93
a relational, an
undeniable relational component.
00:13:55.93\00:13:59.73
Now, we're not going to get into
this right now but that strongly
00:13:59.73\00:14:03.43
suggests that the heart,
the ultimate truth about the
00:14:03.43\00:14:07.66
universe is relational.
00:14:07.66\00:14:08.90
>> Yeah, we're all living in
relation to one another and God
00:14:08.90\00:14:13.70
is living in relation to us and
there's a point at which all of
00:14:13.70\00:14:16.76
us as human beings suddenly wake
up to the reality that we are
00:14:16.76\00:14:20.83
living in a
universe in proximity to God.
00:14:20.83\00:14:26.76
All the way until I was 18 I
didn't have the foggiest idea.
00:14:26.76\00:14:30.23
All the sudden, I was hyper
aware that I was living, one way
00:14:30.23\00:14:34.23
or another, good or bad,
in relation to the God of the
00:14:34.23\00:14:38.10
universe.
00:14:38.10\00:14:39.06
>> You know, I
really like that emulation.
00:14:39.06\00:14:40.70
Look at this verse, just look
at this verse and tell me if you
00:14:40.70\00:14:43.93
get this point, if
this comes out of the verse.
00:14:43.93\00:14:45.73
This is in Hebrews chapter one
and we're looking at actually
00:14:45.73\00:14:48.53
two verses, Hebrews
chapter one, verses 1 and 2.
00:14:48.53\00:14:50.96
Now, let me just read these to
you, I actually prefer these out
00:14:50.96\00:14:55.00
of the King James but they're
a little bit archaic out of the
00:14:55.00\00:14:57.53
King James so I'm going
to read them out of the NIV.
00:14:57.53\00:15:00.16
It says here and this is my
handy-dandy iPad that someone
00:15:00.16\00:15:02.43
let me borrow just to
see if I would like it.
00:15:02.43\00:15:04.36
>> You need to get
your on handy-dandy iPad.
00:15:04.36\00:15:05.93
>> I do need to, yes.
00:15:05.93\00:15:08.16
"In the past God spoke to our
ancestors through the prophets
00:15:08.16\00:15:11.13
at many times and in various
ways, but in these last days he
00:15:11.13\00:15:15.66
has spoken to us by his Son,
whom he appointed heir of all
00:15:15.66\00:15:19.80
things, and through whom
also he made the universe."
00:15:19.80\00:15:21.73
Now, there's two key words there
that come out and I'm going to
00:15:21.73\00:15:24.70
emphasize them.
00:15:24.70\00:15:25.96
In the past, God spoke to our
ancestors through the prophets,
00:15:25.96\00:15:29.73
bible, in various and many ways.
00:15:29.73\00:15:32.26
Many prophets, many different
authors, but in these last days
00:15:32.26\00:15:35.90
he spoken to us.
00:15:35.90\00:15:37.30
Do you see the key point?
00:15:37.30\00:15:38.80
>> Got it, got it.
00:15:38.80\00:15:40.16
>> It's conversation, it's
communication, it's relational.
00:15:40.16\00:15:42.16
>> God is a speaker.
00:15:42.16\00:15:43.46
>> The book of Hebrews is
actually written to a religious
00:15:43.46\00:15:45.40
people who have
forgotten about relationship.
00:15:45.40\00:15:48.36
>> They forgot the story.
00:15:48.36\00:15:49.63
>> They lost the plot.
00:15:49.63\00:15:50.83
>> Yes.
00:15:50.83\00:15:52.10
And I think, again, going back
to other people I see it seems
00:15:52.10\00:15:55.66
to me that the essence of
life is encountering what is the
00:15:55.66\00:16:00.40
story that I am a part of.
00:16:00.40\00:16:02.93
>> What's the story
that we're all a part of?
00:16:02.93\00:16:05.86
>> And happiness depends on the
degree to which I plug in and
00:16:05.86\00:16:09.36
when I start losing the
plot, that's when you begin to
00:16:09.36\00:16:14.60
experience loneliness,
guilt, disillusionment, lack of
00:16:14.60\00:16:17.86
purpose, lack of meaning.
00:16:17.86\00:16:19.00
But if I can encounter
the story, that's what brings
00:16:19.00\00:16:24.56
meaning and purpose to life.
00:16:24.56\00:16:25.90
>> And can that loss happen in
religion without the story, just
00:16:25.90\00:16:30.56
religion?
00:16:30.56\00:16:31.63
>> Not only can it, --
00:16:31.63\00:16:33.00
>> Well, in other words we're
not just here to talk about
00:16:33.00\00:16:35.73
religion, we're not just here to
talk about theology, we're not
00:16:35.73\00:16:38.16
just here to talk about the
bible per se but the meaning
00:16:38.16\00:16:40.63
behind it.
00:16:40.63\00:16:41.76
>> Because a religious
individual could also be bereft
00:16:41.76\00:16:43.80
of meaning and purpose and be
reading the bible every day and
00:16:43.80\00:16:47.26
still be completely
out of touch with reality.
00:16:47.26\00:16:51.86
>> Something that I wanted
to touch on just quickly, James,
00:16:51.86\00:16:54.66
you went to Hebrews eleven
which I think is a great --
00:16:54.66\00:16:57.16
>> Hebrews one.
00:16:57.16\00:16:58.43
>> -- Hebrews one, excuse me,
which I think is a great place
00:16:58.43\00:17:00.13
to start this conversation and
you mention there that it says
00:17:00.13\00:17:02.93
that God spoke.
00:17:02.93\00:17:04.13
That is the very first act
that God is recorded as doing in
00:17:04.13\00:17:08.66
scripture.
00:17:08.66\00:17:09.80
The very first thing, in
the beginning God created the
00:17:09.80\00:17:11.96
heavens and the earth but the
means by which he created was,
00:17:11.96\00:17:14.73
and God said, he spoke.
00:17:14.73\00:17:17.10
So if you just sort of clear
your mind and think okay, I'm
00:17:17.10\00:17:20.86
encountering God, who is this
God, what kind of a being is he
00:17:20.86\00:17:23.23
and the first thing that you
know about him is that he speaks
00:17:23.23\00:17:26.73
instantly, he's communicative.
00:17:26.73\00:17:28.30
>> That's powerful.
00:17:28.30\00:17:29.56
>> It's powerful because it says
something about this character
00:17:29.56\00:17:32.23
of God.
00:17:32.23\00:17:33.56
Why does somebody communicate?
00:17:33.56\00:17:34.76
To be understood.
00:17:34.76\00:17:37.03
Why does someone
want to be understood?
00:17:37.03\00:17:38.43
Because they want to be known.
00:17:38.43\00:17:39.60
Why does a
person want to be known?
00:17:39.60\00:17:41.40
Because they want to be loved.
00:17:41.40\00:17:42.76
So the fact that we have what we
call the word of God, the fact
00:17:42.76\00:17:43.90
that God has chosen to
communicate with us in a text
00:17:43.90\00:17:49.06
like this says something
about the character of God.
00:17:49.06\00:17:52.46
God is a communicator by nature.
00:17:52.46\00:17:55.26
>> And it assumes he's
not some vapor in the sky.
00:17:55.26\00:17:57.46
It assumes that God
is an intellectual being.
00:17:57.46\00:18:00.10
>> He's a person.
00:18:00.10\00:18:01.20
>> He's filled with
emotion, with character, with
00:18:01.20\00:18:03.13
personality.
00:18:03.13\00:18:04.36
>> Okay guys, we're off to a
good start and we're going to
00:18:04.36\00:18:06.03
come back right after a
break and just pursue this thing
00:18:06.03\00:18:09.83
straight through.
00:18:09.83\00:18:10.76
>> I used to
drink, I used to womanize.
00:18:10.76\00:18:22.10
That is all I thought was the
best thing for me, hang around
00:18:22.10\00:18:26.06
with girls.
00:18:26.06\00:18:27.26
You can jump around, dance
and hang around with women, go
00:18:27.26\00:18:35.70
tonight clubs and the rest; come
back home and sit down, all you
00:18:35.70\00:18:39.73
see is this emptiness.
00:18:39.73\00:18:41.40
But still within me
there was something longing.
00:18:41.40\00:18:52.63
What is it that can create
joy, what's the meaning of life?
00:18:52.63\00:18:57.83
Is there somebody that can help
me to find continued happiness?
00:18:57.83\00:19:02.46
A certain person was just
passing by and he said, "I have
00:19:02.46\00:19:14.30
these lessons, would
you mind studying them?
00:19:14.30\00:19:16.96
It could change your life.
00:19:16.96\00:19:18.33
If I told you feel, you want
something more to do in life."
00:19:18.33\00:19:22.00
And I said, well God, God.
00:19:22.00\00:19:23.83
We see people going to church,
people talk about God but, I
00:19:23.83\00:19:26.60
mean, some -- we even do the
same things together, what will
00:19:26.60\00:19:30.96
I benefit from
becoming a Christian?
00:19:30.96\00:19:33.30
He kept on telling me,
"Please, think about your life
00:19:33.30\00:19:40.73
realistically.
00:19:40.73\00:19:42.30
Are you really happy with
drinking and women and the rest
00:19:42.30\00:19:45.66
of all that?"
00:19:45.66\00:19:47.33
I said, "Honestly, I'm not
really happy because sometimes
00:19:47.33\00:19:49.00
when I am sober
if my mind, I cry.
00:19:49.00\00:19:52.30
I need something to hold onto."
00:19:52.30\00:19:54.36
Then I said,
"Well, I'll have them."
00:19:54.36\00:20:00.50
I kept them for a day or two but
something kept on telling me can
00:20:00.50\00:20:04.50
you keep something that has been
-- maybe there is some good news
00:20:04.50\00:20:07.90
for you, why keep them?
00:20:07.90\00:20:09.33
One day, I just picked up and
said, well, let me go through
00:20:09.33\00:20:19.00
and I saw how the first lesson
was talking about we can believe
00:20:19.00\00:20:22.60
in God, everything designed
has a designer, there must be
00:20:22.60\00:20:28.26
somebody who put everything in
order, everything created has a
00:20:28.26\00:20:31.46
creator.
00:20:31.46\00:20:32.70
Then, something started growing
within me, what is this God?
00:20:32.70\00:20:35.56
Then, I continued to
go through the lessons.
00:20:35.56\00:20:38.86
I had a bible by my side.
00:20:38.86\00:20:42.76
I used to compare the verses
because I was suspicious, maybe
00:20:42.76\00:20:45.56
the verses they're giving
me, they're not in line with the
00:20:45.56\00:20:48.86
bible.
00:20:48.86\00:20:49.86
So I had my bible and I
compared, I found it was
00:20:49.86\00:20:52.66
perfectly the same until finally
with encouragements the lessons,
00:20:52.66\00:20:56.60
the preachings, all these things
that surrounded me, I kind of
00:20:56.60\00:21:00.20
started seeing some
light at the end of the tunnel.
00:21:00.20\00:21:03.96
I finished all the lessons, I
looked around, "Do you have any
00:21:03.96\00:21:14.73
other material?"
00:21:14.73\00:21:15.76
"Oh, let me organize for you."
00:21:15.76\00:21:17.30
Simple tracks that came, is
God fair, all those, I kept on
00:21:17.30\00:21:21.40
going; I was yearning
to know as an individual.
00:21:21.40\00:21:25.96
And as I got to know, God
revealed himself to me and
00:21:25.96\00:21:29.60
finally I decided to say, "Is
there anything else I can do?"
00:21:29.60\00:21:34.73
"Oh, you need to be baptized."
00:21:34.73\00:21:36.00
And that is how I was baptized
on the third of June in 2000 and
00:21:36.00\00:21:40.33
from then on, I have not kept
quiet this discover bible guides
00:21:40.33\00:21:54.13
have helped me.
00:21:54.13\00:21:55.36
I can take them out there so
that people in homes can study
00:21:55.36\00:21:59.73
them and get more and more
knowledge about God like I did.
00:21:59.73\00:22:04.20
I love my relationship
with Jesus and feel homes can be
00:22:04.20\00:22:09.96
mended if Christ was to
come, life can be redirected if
00:22:09.96\00:22:13.43
somebody thought about
giving their lives to Jesus.
00:22:13.43\00:22:16.03
I know what God did for
me, he can do it in somebody.
00:22:16.03\00:22:19.16
I can encourage them and it's
happening and God is doing great
00:22:19.16\00:22:23.03
things.
00:22:23.03\00:22:29.50
>> To partner with light bearers
in spreading the gospel, visit
00:22:29.50\00:22:32.26
online at lightbearers.org
or call up toll free at
00:22:32.26\00:22:35.93
877-585-1111.
00:22:35.93\00:22:40.60
You can also write to us
at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper
00:22:40.60\00:22:44.90
Lowell Road,
Jasper, Oregon, 97438.
00:22:44.90\00:22:50.40
>> All right, guys, this is fun.
00:22:50.40\00:22:51.33
I'm enjoying this conversation.
00:22:51.33\00:22:53.10
It's been great to just pose
a very -- what are you doing?
00:22:53.10\00:22:56.83
>> David, David?
00:22:56.83\00:22:57.73
>> I'm sorry.
00:22:57.73\00:22:58.63
>> Quickly
documenting the experience.
00:22:58.63\00:23:00.30
>> Hey, this is exciting.
00:23:00.30\00:23:03.06
>> What was my
smile like, was it good?
00:23:03.06\00:23:04.80
>> It was not good.
00:23:04.80\00:23:06.06
>> We're off to a good start, as
I was saying and we're beginning
00:23:06.06\00:23:08.36
with a very basic fundamental
question, what is the bible?
00:23:08.36\00:23:13.40
Now, we began to go in that
direction but we really never
00:23:13.40\00:23:16.33
answered that question.
00:23:16.33\00:23:17.80
>> It's a loaded question.
00:23:17.80\00:23:19.13
>> It's a loaded question,
well, what is the bible?
00:23:19.13\00:23:21.13
We sometimes refer to it --
00:23:21.13\00:23:22.10
>> Why is it loaded?
00:23:22.10\00:23:23.43
>> -- Lots of people
refer to it as the word of God.
00:23:23.43\00:23:25.56
>> Because the bible
is so, it's loaded, man.
00:23:25.56\00:23:27.26
>> Is the bible the word of God?
00:23:27.26\00:23:29.63
Jeffrey, is it the word of God?
00:23:29.63\00:23:30.46
Can you say that?
00:23:30.46\00:23:32.83
People say that, is
that an accurate description?
00:23:32.83\00:23:35.10
>> It's the word of God.
00:23:35.10\00:23:36.30
Absolutely, it's an accurate
description but I think that
00:23:36.30\00:23:38.00
there is a distinction that we
would make, though, and that is
00:23:38.00\00:23:40.06
that the bible is the word of
God not in the sense that it's
00:23:40.06\00:23:45.16
God's pen where God physically
dictated every single word,
00:23:45.16\00:23:51.50
every single sentence but
the bible is God's thoughts
00:23:51.50\00:23:54.96
communicated through
the agent of humanity.
00:23:54.96\00:23:56.96
>> Okay.
00:23:56.96\00:23:58.76
The bible is one book but
it's composed of 66 books, for
00:23:58.76\00:24:03.33
example.
00:24:03.33\00:24:04.10
>> It's an encyclopedia.
00:24:04.10\00:24:05.36
>> Written by multiple different
authors, some 40-some authors.
00:24:05.36\00:24:08.50
>> 40-ish authors.
00:24:08.50\00:24:09.63
>> Yeah, so are there different
personalities, different
00:24:09.63\00:24:10.90
vocabularies,
different cultural backgrounds?
00:24:10.90\00:24:15.50
When these prophets are
writing God, as you said, is not
00:24:15.50\00:24:20.50
dictating through them, he's not
telling them word for word what
00:24:20.50\00:24:25.46
to say but nevertheless
it's the word of God.
00:24:25.46\00:24:27.90
In what sense is it
the word of God, then?
00:24:27.90\00:24:29.73
>> Well, we go back to
that whole idea of humanity.
00:24:29.73\00:24:31.66
The agent is humanity and
because this is a conversation,
00:24:31.66\00:24:36.86
because scripture is a
conversation with humanity, God
00:24:36.86\00:24:40.53
chose to use humans; God's
thoughts communicated through
00:24:40.53\00:24:46.16
humanity and so
there is a diversity.
00:24:46.16\00:24:48.10
>> There's a
diversity; I see it.
00:24:48.10\00:24:50.80
>> There's a
diversity here, absolutely.
00:24:50.80\00:24:52.40
>> You compare Isaiah for
example to Joel or Joel to
00:24:52.40\00:24:55.33
Romans, you're going to see
a different personality so the
00:24:55.33\00:25:00.56
prophet is
writing the text, right?
00:25:00.56\00:25:03.96
The prophet is writing but
how does scripture itself define
00:25:03.96\00:25:08.56
what it is?
00:25:08.56\00:25:09.80
>> I've got a verse
here, can I read that?
00:25:09.80\00:25:12.06
>> Okay.
00:25:12.06\00:25:13.30
>> So I'm reading here from
an New Testament book, second
00:25:13.30\00:25:15.90
Peter, I'm in chapter one
and I'll just read verse 21, we
00:25:15.90\00:25:20.53
could read a lot of it here.
00:25:20.53\00:25:21.90
I'll read verses 20 and 21, it
says, "knowing this first, that
00:25:21.90\00:25:23.86
no prophecy of scriptures of
any private interpretation; for
00:25:23.86\00:25:28.50
prophecy never came by the
will of man: but holy men of God
00:25:28.50\00:25:33.33
spoke as they were
moved by the Holy Spirit."
00:25:33.33\00:25:35.56
So two things here, the first
thing that he says is scripture
00:25:35.56\00:25:39.76
and the stories of scripture
are not just to be interpreted
00:25:39.76\00:25:41.66
privately in the sense that this
is my interpretation and this is
00:25:41.66\00:25:47.36
certainly what it means.
00:25:47.36\00:25:50.86
He says no because it's not a
man-made document in the sense
00:25:50.86\00:25:52.70
of its origin.
00:25:52.70\00:25:53.80
>> Right, I like that.
00:25:53.80\00:25:55.00
>> He says holy men of God
spoke as they were moved by the
00:25:55.00\00:25:57.96
spirit.
00:25:57.96\00:25:59.20
So think of it this way, the
person who is best qualified to
00:25:59.20\00:26:00.83
tell us what this book is about
is the one who originated, who
00:26:00.83\00:26:04.33
began the process by which the
book was created and that's God.
00:26:04.33\00:26:09.46
>> Okay.
00:26:09.46\00:26:10.73
I want to compare that text to
another and this is by Paul in
00:26:10.73\00:26:13.96
Second Timothy, chapter three
and uses similar language but
00:26:13.96\00:26:19.16
just straightforward it says all
scripture, verse 16 -- second
00:26:19.16\00:26:22.00
Timothy, three sixteen --
"All scripture is given by
00:26:22.00\00:26:25.23
inspiration of God" And it
goes on to describe that it is
00:26:25.23\00:26:30.06
profitable for the formulation
of teachings, et cetera.
00:26:30.06\00:26:34.26
>> So, what's the comparison?
00:26:34.26\00:26:35.93
>> Inspiration.
00:26:35.93\00:26:37.30
The text you were reading said
that holy men were moved by the
00:26:37.30\00:26:41.63
Holy Spirit so something
supernatural is going on but
00:26:41.63\00:26:44.00
something very human is
going on at the same time.
00:26:44.00\00:26:46.93
>> That right there, what you
just said is the key that must
00:26:46.93\00:26:50.80
be grasped.
00:26:50.80\00:26:52.23
Here, we're not talking so much
about what the bible is about,
00:26:52.23\00:26:54.70
we'll get to that but the
point you just made is huge.
00:26:54.70\00:26:57.36
It's a human document because
humans are writing and it's a
00:26:57.36\00:27:01.76
divine document
because God is inspiring.
00:27:01.76\00:27:05.56
God is not writing; God as
an author is not represented.
00:27:05.56\00:27:08.90
It's not as though, oh, I
like the way God put that.
00:27:08.90\00:27:11.86
There are small instances --
00:27:11.86\00:27:13.66
>> Except in the places, yes.
00:27:13.66\00:27:14.93
>> -- I was just going to say,
there are certain instances like
00:27:14.93\00:27:16.80
the ten commandments where God
writes with his own finger but
00:27:16.80\00:27:18.46
you're exactly correct, Ty when
we read Paul, we know it's Paul,
00:27:18.46\00:27:21.30
those of us that are
familiar with scripture.
00:27:21.30\00:27:23.03
>> Paul's vocabulary, his
way of saying things, yeah.
00:27:23.03\00:27:26.46
>> The way he writes.
00:27:26.46\00:27:27.66
When we read Moses, we know
we're reading Moses, when we
00:27:27.66\00:27:30.00
read for example Ecclesiastes
you know it's -- so the point is
00:27:30.00\00:27:32.20
the stylistic idiosyncratic
personality types or personality
00:27:32.20\00:27:39.03
perspectives are
certainly preserved in the text.
00:27:39.03\00:27:41.43
>> Why is that important, why
is that -- why not just have a
00:27:41.43\00:27:44.26
dictation?
00:27:44.26\00:27:45.90
>> We're humans.
00:27:45.90\00:27:47.16
We are the audience, we are the
addressee, we are the ones that
00:27:47.16\00:27:51.60
God is seeking to communicate
with and because I'm a human I
00:27:51.60\00:27:54.43
have experienced this, right.
00:27:54.43\00:27:56.83
So the authors are coming
to the table with their own
00:27:56.83\00:27:59.40
experiences, with their own
intellectual background, with
00:27:59.40\00:28:01.96
their own cultural set up
and it's a way to connect.
00:28:01.96\00:28:05.90
We connect with scripture
because there is a human
00:28:05.90\00:28:08.36
component.
00:28:08.36\00:28:10.26
>> And we don't all connect
with the same verse equally.
00:28:10.26\00:28:12.06
>> I love that, I love that.
00:28:12.06\00:28:13.23
>> Exactly.
00:28:13.23\00:28:14.43
>> Yeah, because you have
certain personalities that might
00:28:14.43\00:28:16.10
connect.
00:28:16.10\00:28:17.36
I connect with certain people
in the bible differently than
00:28:17.36\00:28:17.70
others.
00:28:17.70\00:28:18.96
And there's a fun game, I don't
know if you've ever played this
00:28:18.96\00:28:20.20
but it's really awesome, you
just open the bible anywhere,
00:28:20.20\00:28:21.83
you're with friends, whatever,
you open the bible and you might
00:28:21.83\00:28:24.83
want to try it sometime and
you open the bible and you just
00:28:24.83\00:28:26.80
start reading.
00:28:26.80\00:28:27.43
Just start reading --
00:28:27.43\00:28:28.66
>> And then
somebody has to guess.
00:28:28.66\00:28:30.00
>> Yeah, where are you
or who is that talking.
00:28:30.00\00:28:31.60
>> And you can tell by the tone.
00:28:31.60\00:28:32.60
>> You can.
00:28:32.60\00:28:33.86
>> You have the Psalms in this
high pitch, it's the C chord and
00:28:33.86\00:28:36.93
then you read Ecclesiastes
and it's, the guy is depressed.
00:28:36.93\00:28:39.43
>> It's D minor or something.
00:28:39.43\00:28:41.30
>> For example, I connect with
Song of Solomon because I'm a
00:28:41.30\00:28:43.50
romantic person.
00:28:43.50\00:28:44.46
>> [Laughter]
00:28:44.46\00:28:45.53
>> I have news for you,
Jeffrey, news for you --
00:28:45.53\00:28:47.50
>> Five years married, I
connect with Song of Solomon.
00:28:47.50\00:28:52.06
>> The Latins do not
have a corner on romance.
00:28:52.06\00:28:56.56
I just want you to know that.
00:28:56.56\00:28:57.96
I love the Song
of Solomon as well.
00:28:57.96\00:29:00.40
>> You
purposely through that in.
00:29:00.40\00:29:01.73
You knew you were going
to say that all program.
00:29:01.73\00:29:03.56
You've been waiting to say that.
00:29:03.56\00:29:04.83
>> Hey, you brought up the Psalm
of Solomon, I didn't but let me
00:29:04.83\00:29:07.83
say something about the
Song of Solomon that I think is
00:29:07.83\00:29:09.33
interesting.
00:29:09.33\00:29:10.60
There was an argument when the
canon was being composed, when
00:29:10.60\00:29:11.86
the books of scripture were
being brought together and some
00:29:11.86\00:29:13.80
people were saying, some
scholars were saying way back
00:29:13.80\00:29:17.00
when, hey, the Song of
Solomon should not be included.
00:29:17.00\00:29:19.63
>> That's edgy.
00:29:19.63\00:29:21.80
>> That's edgy because it's
basically, what is a Song of
00:29:21.80\00:29:24.33
Solomon?
00:29:24.33\00:29:25.40
It is a love Song
written by Solomon to his girl.
00:29:25.40\00:29:29.03
>> Absolutely.
00:29:29.03\00:29:30.66
>> But somehow in that very,
very romantic, beautiful love,
00:29:30.66\00:29:34.70
that intimate love something of
the character of God is coming
00:29:34.70\00:29:39.80
through;
something is being conveyed.
00:29:39.80\00:29:41.63
>> The fact that people had
a problem with that I think is
00:29:41.63\00:29:44.83
profound because God is edgier
than some people are comfortable
00:29:44.83\00:29:49.16
with.
00:29:49.16\00:29:50.20
>> Certainly.
00:29:50.20\00:29:51.76
>> I think that's powerful.
00:29:51.76\00:29:52.96
>> So you said something,
Jeffrey, earlier that I wanted
00:29:52.96\00:29:54.23
to play off of and that is that
part of what makes scripture so
00:29:54.23\00:29:57.63
accessible is that it's not
just a series of propositional,
00:29:57.63\00:30:01.40
philosophical wisdom sayings,
there are parts of scripture
00:30:01.40\00:30:05.20
that are like that but
the scripture on the whole is
00:30:05.20\00:30:08.46
literally hundreds of stories.
00:30:08.46\00:30:12.53
I mean, the story of Jonah,
the story of Moses, the story of
00:30:12.53\00:30:15.90
Jeremiah, the story -- and even
though the clothes have changed
00:30:15.90\00:30:19.00
and the background has changed
and the cities have changed and
00:30:19.00\00:30:21.20
the cars have changed and
all of that, human drama, human
00:30:21.20\00:30:24.83
intrigue, human struggle, human
-- it's the same then and here
00:30:24.83\00:30:28.73
we, we fast forward.
00:30:28.73\00:30:30.23
>> It's the same thing.
00:30:30.23\00:30:32.56
We're the same with
different clothes on.
00:30:32.56\00:30:34.36
>> That's right.
00:30:34.36\00:30:35.43
You just change the
backdrop and it's the same.
00:30:35.43\00:30:36.53
So even though the bible
is an ancient book, it's an
00:30:36.53\00:30:37.80
exceedingly modern book in the
sense that it interacts with the
00:30:37.80\00:30:42.53
modern human experience.
00:30:42.53\00:30:44.00
Human beings have not changed.
00:30:44.00\00:30:45.20
>> You know, there's a quick
thing, a poem since I'm the
00:30:45.20\00:30:48.83
romantic one that says --
00:30:48.83\00:30:50.83
>> You still think
you're the romantic one.
00:30:50.83\00:30:53.43
>> I see a recurrent theme.
00:30:53.43\00:30:54.76
>> Facts are
facts, I'm just saying.
00:30:54.76\00:30:56.23
There's a poem that says
something like, give me a bible
00:30:56.23\00:30:57.93
and a candle and lock me up in a
dark dungeon and I can tell you
00:30:57.93\00:31:05.80
what the whole world is
doing which is heavy because --
00:31:05.80\00:31:08.46
>> Hopefully not a dungeon,
couldn't it just be like a room
00:31:08.46\00:31:10.60
or something?
00:31:10.60\00:31:11.70
>> Preferably since
you're such a romantic.
00:31:11.70\00:31:13.93
>> But, that's heavy because
it's communicating there that
00:31:13.93\00:31:18.16
the bible has an insight
into the human experience.
00:31:18.16\00:31:21.66
>> Yeah, I get
what you're saying.
00:31:21.66\00:31:24.33
I love it.
00:31:24.33\00:31:25.56
>> When I was 17 years old,
that was the first time I ever
00:31:25.56\00:31:26.86
cracked a bible open for myself.
00:31:26.86\00:31:28.86
>> That was four years ago.
00:31:28.86\00:31:29.86