The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to The New Journey,
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a program where
you'll meet real life people,
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with real life testimonies,
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doing real life
ministry for Jesus Christ.
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I'm your host Aaron Chancy,
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come join us on The New Journey.
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Welcome back to The New Journey.
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On today's broadcast, we
have with us Kitrell Lucas.
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Kitrell, we'd like to thank you
for being on the program today.
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Welcome and thank you.
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Yes sir, yes sir.
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Just some general
brief background information,
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could you tell us your
age and where you are from?
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I'm 41 years old
from Chicago, Illinois,
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but right now I live
in Huntsville, Alabama.
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Okay, you
mentioned Chicago, Illinois,
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what was it like
growing up in Chicago, Illinois
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when you were younger?
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Well, I grew up on
the south side of Chicago.
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We had limited resources.
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But it was dangerous,
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you know, the
areas that I came in,
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I grew up in a
Robert Taylor Homes.
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Okay.
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That's a public
house and development
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on the south side.
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All right.
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Growing up, I was into do,
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well, I was
exposed to a whole lot.
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Okay.
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But I've learned even then
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that if I mind my business
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that I can get
away with few things.
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Okay, okay.
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Now what was the likelihood
growing up in Chicago back
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when you were younger
of a person young person
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making it to 21 years old?
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Wow, you know 21 seemed far away
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for lot of people, you know.
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Definitely.
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And 21 would have
meant that if for me
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that we were in the early '90s,
and that was close to 2000,
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and that seemed
like a distant future.
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So a lot of things
were handled for the moment.
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We did have gang violence,
a lot of gang violence,
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little kids did get killed.
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Wow.
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A lot of lives were
lost before the age of 21.
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Okay.
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The likelihood of a
mother with more than one child,
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you know, to get out of
the projects with all of them.
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Yeah.
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That was really slim to get out.
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Wow, wow.
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So growing up,
you mentioned that,
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you know, friends got killed
and young people got killed.
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How did that make
you feel growing up,
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seeing those things around you?
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Well, I wasn't one of
those who didn't think
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that I wouldn't
live to see 21 years old.
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Okay.
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I always had a plan for
myself but it was dangerous.
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There was some areas
that I knew not to go into.
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There was some
people that I knew
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not to even look their way.
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You know, because
they'll, it could,
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it could spell trouble for me.
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Okay.
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What was your early
home life like growing up?
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Well, it's funny
because we grew up
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in the heart of the projects.
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Okay.
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We lived on a 16th floor
in a 16th storey high rise,
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and I'd like to tell
folk, I grew up in the projects,
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but in that house,
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in that apartment it
was totally different.
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Okay.
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My mother she was
introduced to Adventism
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when I was very young.
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She was a single parent,
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she raised
myself and two brothers
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before another
brother came along.
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Okay.
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And we were taught about God,
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what we know
outside of our house
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didn't go inside of our house.
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There was no smoking, no
men in and out, you know.
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It was a single mom
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who'd pray with
her children every day,
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taught us about God every day.
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We got whippings for messing
up the house and all of that,
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but for most part,
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I have friends who
were able to come over
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a few but I was hardly
able to go out and visit.
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How do you think your mother
manage to raise you all up,
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you, and your brother,
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and your siblings together
in a house and protect you
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and shelter you
from certain things
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that were going on around you.
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My mother was a praying woman.
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Okay.
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And I believe
that it was her prayers
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that got us through
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because not all
families came out of there
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with all of
their siblings intact.
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Okay.
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With no grudges,
no strings attached,
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you know, if I went back
and round in the old hood,
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I might be recognized as the guy
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who didn't come outside,
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you know, wouldn't be
anything held against me like,
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"Oh, we've been
looking for you, let's get him,
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" the things like that.
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I believe it was her prayers.
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Okay. Okay, praise the Lord.
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Now you
mentioned that you grow up
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in a Robert Taylor Homes.
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Now, I'm not familiar
with the Robert Taylor Homes
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but I have heard about
Cabrini Green Projects,
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infamous Cabrini Green Projects.
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What was the difference
between those projects
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and the projects
that you grew up in?
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Not much of a
difference besides location.
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Okay.
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Robert Taylor was on
the south side of Chicago,
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and it was part of
a housing development
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that stretched 2 miles long.
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Okay.
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As a matter fact,
from my 16th floor window
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I could see the
neighboring Stateway Gardens,
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and there were Dearborn Homes,
Ickes Homes downstate street.
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If I look to my left, I
can see across the Dan Ryan,
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Wentworth Garden
Housing Projects.
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If I look to my right...
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What?
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You know, to the lake
there was the Ida B. Wells,
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you know, public
house and development.
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And behind me, or south of me
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was the rest of the
Robert Taylor Homes.
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Okay, okay.
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Cabrini Green,
they had the same gangs.
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As a matter of fact,
their gangs were lot affiliated
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with the gangs
in my neighborhood.
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Okay, okay.
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There was an instance
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where a little boy was
killed in Cabrini Green,
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and it was, it's
known, it was on the news,
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his name is Dantrell Davis,
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and they wanted to
get rid of their guns.
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It just so happens a boy, a guy,
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from the area I lived in
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was followed by the police
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bringing their guns
to our neighborhood.
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So they were pretty much
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in cohesion as
far as gang structure,
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but one development was
on the north side of Chicago
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and the others
on the south side.
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Okay.
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Now, Chicago is known
for its gang violence,
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and you eventually
got involved in the GDs
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or a Gangsters Disciples.
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Can you shed some
light upon that for us?
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And the whole
structure and formation
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of the Gangster Disciples?
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Well, from what I
know the Gangster Disciples
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come out of a gang that
started as the Devils Disciples.
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Okay, wow.
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The chief in that gang disciple,
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Gangster Disciples,
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Larry Hover was
a Devils Disciple.
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And some of his
friends, or gang partners,
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you know, they
branched off, and broke up,
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and developed their own gangs.
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Okay.
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If you come down to the years,
this was actually in 1970s,
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the early '70s when this happen,
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and I was just being born.
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Yeah.
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You want to know
how I ended up in it?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Shed some light upon that also.
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I was exposed to the
gang, gangs at an early age.
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As far as second
grade I could remember
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guys doing gang size,
and trying to recruit.
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Okay.
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I was never really interested
until about seventh grade.
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I was more of a
wannabe in seventh grade,
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I was actually a
student at an Adventist school.
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So I took the mentality
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that I saw in the
projects to the school,
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try to form my own
gang in the school,
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and be this and
that in the school.
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And when I
graduated high school,
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that's when I was
actually drafted into the gang.
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Didn't have courage to
say I didn't want to be in it.
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And I was drafted in
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and became at that
point a ranking member.
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Okay.
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Now talk about that
whole drafting process,
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and the ranking
member, what you mean by that?
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Well, I was sitting outside,
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sports was a thing that I liked,
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and the guys we
would go to the school,
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our neighboring
school, and play basketball.
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So I'm out one day
bouncing a basketball,
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bunch of guys outside, I
just dip in a corner store,
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or go into a corner store,
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come out the corner
store everybody's gone.
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This happened two
Wednesdays in a row.
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Okay.
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The third Wednesday,
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and it was
Wednesday is significant
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because this is the time
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where you get a lot of
people out on the block.
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Okay.
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There was a guy come up and say,
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"I want you, you,
you and you on my staff,"
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and I was one of them.
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And other people
say, "Uh-oh, Kitrell,
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Kitrell go in to the
thing, to the thing."
00:09:01.87\00:09:03.77
I didn't know
what the thing was.
00:09:03.81\00:09:05.27
Okay, okay.
00:09:05.31\00:09:06.64
But I'm going with these
guys, we go down an ally,
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and to an abandoned
house we go down in a basement.
00:09:09.48\00:09:13.28
Everybody says,
well one fellow says,
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"Now everybody get in
your six point stance,"
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and I didn't even
know what that was.
00:09:17.42\00:09:19.25
But I'm a pretty fast learner,
so I saw everybody was standing
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and I'm standing there,
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and these guys steps
in the middle of a circle
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that we have formed,
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and said a creed,
and I realized that
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I'm not a gang
member yet, you know.
00:09:30.07\00:09:32.90
Okay.
00:09:32.93\00:09:34.27
If I had the courage then,
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if I had somebody
probably guiding me
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or steering me
better from there,
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I probably would have left.
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Okay.
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But instead I stayed there,
and me being one of those guys,
00:09:44.28\00:09:48.02
he wanted on the staff,
00:09:48.05\00:09:49.55
he actually made
me a ranked member.
00:09:49.58\00:09:51.65
Okay, now what are some
of the rival gangs that,
00:09:51.69\00:09:53.96
that are located
in the Chicago area,
00:09:53.99\00:09:56.32
the inner city Chicago area?
00:09:56.36\00:09:58.16
Well, you got the
Gangster Disciples
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which was a...
00:10:00.86\00:10:02.20
which was the gang
that I was a member of.
00:10:02.23\00:10:04.23
You have Black Disciples. Okay.
00:10:04.27\00:10:06.47
You have Black Stones,
you have Mickey Cobras,
00:10:06.50\00:10:11.57
you have Vice Lords,
00:10:11.61\00:10:13.38
and you got a lot
of different factions.
00:10:13.41\00:10:16.04
One thing I could say
about the Gangster Disciples,
00:10:16.08\00:10:18.78
you know, they say you
are, it takes one to be one,
00:10:18.81\00:10:24.09
that probably
took one to kill one.
00:10:24.12\00:10:26.25
Yeah, okay. Wow.
00:10:26.29\00:10:28.02
The Gangster
Disciples were pretty much
00:10:28.06\00:10:29.72
hated by all those other gangs.
00:10:29.76\00:10:31.09
Yeah. Now, why was that?
00:10:31.13\00:10:32.76
Well, they were the biggest
and probably the most ruthless,
00:10:32.79\00:10:35.76
the strongest, even to this day
00:10:35.80\00:10:39.73
they're reputed
as the most strong,
00:10:39.77\00:10:42.14
strongest gang.
00:10:42.17\00:10:43.51
They run a penitentiaries,
00:10:43.54\00:10:44.87
they had a run in streets there,
00:10:44.91\00:10:46.47
they run a gangs,
Cook County Jail there,
00:10:46.51\00:10:50.45
so all the other gangs I
guess, you know what they,
00:10:50.48\00:10:53.55
they'll unite with
one another to fight
00:10:53.58\00:10:55.28
the Gangster Disciples.
00:10:55.32\00:10:56.65
Wow, wow.
00:10:56.69\00:10:58.02
Now, you mentioned that
you were a high ranking member,
00:10:58.05\00:10:59.39
being a high ranking member,
00:10:59.42\00:11:01.19
what were some of
your responsibilities?
00:11:01.22\00:11:02.79
Okay, I was...
00:11:02.82\00:11:04.19
Well, high ranking, I
won't say high ranking,
00:11:04.23\00:11:07.20
but I was chief of security.
00:11:07.23\00:11:10.57
My job was to make sure that
the drug dealers has security,
00:11:10.60\00:11:15.54
I mean, someone
looking out for the police.
00:11:15.57\00:11:18.01
So I would assign guys
to stand on certain corners,
00:11:18.04\00:11:22.04
you know, to let us
know when a police will come.
00:11:22.08\00:11:24.81
Okay, now growing
up in that gang life,
00:11:24.85\00:11:27.05
and growing up in
Chicago anyhow inner city
00:11:27.08\00:11:29.22
in '70s, '80s,
00:11:29.25\00:11:30.65
and seeing all the
violence going on around you,
00:11:30.69\00:11:33.42
how did that impact your life
00:11:33.46\00:11:35.32
based upon the
things that you saw?
00:11:35.36\00:11:37.73
You know, I never had
a heart to kill a person.
00:11:37.76\00:11:41.30
Okay.
00:11:41.33\00:11:42.90
And that probably goes back
00:11:42.93\00:11:44.60
to when I was
about three yeas old.
00:11:44.63\00:11:46.70
I was in a fight
with another boy,
00:11:46.74\00:11:48.14
he was about five, I
wrestled him to the ground,
00:11:48.17\00:11:51.31
and I was going to mash his head
00:11:51.34\00:11:53.04
to the concrete ground.
00:11:53.07\00:11:54.41
Hmm. At three years old?
00:11:54.44\00:11:55.78
Yes. Wow.
00:11:55.81\00:11:57.15
My mom though,
she, she said, stop it.
00:11:57.18\00:12:01.18
And the way she
said it, it hit so hard,
00:12:01.22\00:12:04.45
it made me see that I
was doing something wrong.
00:12:04.49\00:12:06.76
Yeah, wow.
00:12:06.79\00:12:08.12
And just like that I
could never hurt anyone.
00:12:08.16\00:12:11.43
Okay.
00:12:11.46\00:12:13.06
I can recall an instance
00:12:13.09\00:12:14.43
where the guys
wanted to go and shoot
00:12:14.46\00:12:16.33
at the rival gangs.
00:12:16.36\00:12:17.70
Okay.
00:12:17.73\00:12:19.07
And it was 2:30;
2:30 was the time
00:12:19.10\00:12:20.44
when kids get out of school.
00:12:20.47\00:12:21.80
Hmm. Wow.
00:12:21.84\00:12:23.17
And I just
couldn't agree with it,
00:12:23.20\00:12:24.84
I couldn't, I
couldn't, I did not allow it.
00:12:24.87\00:12:28.08
Being chief of security,
I was able to stop that.
00:12:28.11\00:12:31.45
I didn't allow it, I actually
would argue with guys over it,
00:12:31.48\00:12:35.95
you know, I find
myself in the base
00:12:35.98\00:12:37.89
in heated arguments over
00:12:37.92\00:12:40.12
why we will not go
over there and shoot.
00:12:40.16\00:12:42.86
You can do it
early in the morning
00:12:42.89\00:12:44.49
or do it late at night.
00:12:44.53\00:12:45.86
Yeah, but not while,
00:12:45.89\00:12:47.23
not when school
kids getting out,
00:12:47.26\00:12:48.60
so how would a lot of, a
lot of your friends in the gang,
00:12:48.63\00:12:51.20
how would they look at
you being that you are saying,
00:12:51.23\00:12:53.44
"Okay, we're not gonna do this,
or we're not gonna do this."
00:12:53.47\00:12:55.64
How did they view you?
00:12:55.67\00:12:57.01
Well, a few of them,
00:12:57.04\00:12:58.71
you know, those who
were really gang bangers,
00:12:58.74\00:13:01.64
you know, all thrilled
just being a little punk
00:13:01.68\00:13:03.75
this and that, and the other.
00:13:03.78\00:13:05.11
Yeah.
00:13:05.15\00:13:06.48
But I...
00:13:06.51\00:13:07.85
it's funny how folk look
at you, you don't realize
00:13:07.88\00:13:09.92
what a person sees
when they look at you.
00:13:09.95\00:13:12.02
Yeah.
00:13:12.05\00:13:13.39
I was with a guy
00:13:13.42\00:13:15.36
who was really heavy
into that stuff recently,
00:13:15.39\00:13:18.26
may be about seven
to eight years ago.
00:13:18.29\00:13:20.80
And he said,
"Man, you know what?
00:13:20.83\00:13:22.46
You should've
never been in an outing,
00:13:22.50\00:13:23.97
I don't know how
you got in that."
00:13:24.00\00:13:25.63
He said, "You were
never that type of person,"
00:13:25.67\00:13:28.10
you know, and I am like,
00:13:28.14\00:13:29.47
whoa, you saw it but
I didn't even see it.
00:13:29.50\00:13:31.17
Yeah, wow.
00:13:31.21\00:13:32.54
What do you think
that he saw in you
00:13:32.57\00:13:33.91
that was
different from the others?
00:13:33.94\00:13:35.44
I don't know, you know, I
was, like I said from the time
00:13:35.48\00:13:38.71
when my mom stopped me
00:13:38.75\00:13:40.08
from ramming that
boy's head into the ground,
00:13:40.12\00:13:42.75
I was pro-life.
00:13:42.78\00:13:44.12
Okay.
00:13:44.15\00:13:45.49
I couldn't, I
felt everybody's pain.
00:13:45.52\00:13:47.86
My best friend's grandmamma
was rushed out to the hospital,
00:13:47.89\00:13:50.39
I cried more
than he did, you know.
00:13:50.43\00:13:53.03
My uncle died,
his children said,
00:13:53.06\00:13:55.26
"You cry like
he was your daddy."
00:13:55.30\00:13:57.37
You know, I felt
everyone else's pain,
00:13:57.40\00:14:00.07
and if I knew
that someone was hurt,
00:14:00.10\00:14:03.67
I was hurt.
00:14:03.71\00:14:05.04
Someone was
getting hurt, I was hurt.
00:14:05.07\00:14:06.74
So people, you
know, they saw that in me.
00:14:06.78\00:14:08.28
Yeah.
00:14:08.31\00:14:09.64
Now you mentioned about if
you would have had guidance
00:14:09.68\00:14:11.41
at a younger age,
00:14:11.45\00:14:12.78
you probably would have
had the courage to stand up
00:14:12.81\00:14:15.35
and not get into the gang.
00:14:15.38\00:14:17.35
Where was your
father at this time?
00:14:17.39\00:14:18.72
Yeah.
00:14:18.75\00:14:20.09
My mama going to get me for that
00:14:20.12\00:14:21.46
because she like to think that
00:14:21.49\00:14:22.82
she did a good job and she did.
00:14:22.86\00:14:24.29
She did a very good
job. Okay. Praise the Lord.
00:14:24.33\00:14:25.83
But without a dad in
that home, it hurt me.
00:14:25.86\00:14:29.53
Because I didn't have
anything to model my life after.
00:14:29.56\00:14:32.43
Yeah, wow.
00:14:32.47\00:14:33.80
You know, I look at my sons,
00:14:33.84\00:14:35.17
and I see they
have that same attitude,
00:14:35.20\00:14:37.24
one specially that I have.
00:14:37.27\00:14:39.47
I said, well, I
have to let this boy know
00:14:39.51\00:14:41.48
that it's okay for him to
be who God made him to be.
00:14:41.51\00:14:43.91
Yeah, wow.
00:14:43.95\00:14:45.28
And not try to be what he
sees out there in the streets.
00:14:45.31\00:14:47.32
Yeah, definitely.
00:14:47.35\00:14:48.68
You know, I've seen a
guy, he was actually crippled,
00:14:48.72\00:14:51.35
he walked a certain way.
00:14:51.39\00:14:52.72
Okay. I thought it was cool.
00:14:52.75\00:14:54.12
So I tried to do it. Yeah.
00:14:54.16\00:14:55.89
You know, and I look back,
00:14:55.92\00:14:58.66
and I learned
that there were guys
00:14:58.69\00:15:00.20
who actually did to other gangs.
00:15:00.23\00:15:02.56
No, I'm not going
to be a part of it.
00:15:02.60\00:15:03.93
Yeah.
00:15:03.97\00:15:05.30
And they actually
were in the Robert,
00:15:05.33\00:15:06.74
in that area, and play
ball and hung with everybody,
00:15:06.77\00:15:10.17
but they had nothing
to do with the gangs.
00:15:10.21\00:15:12.37
And I feel like wow,
00:15:12.41\00:15:13.74
why I couldn't
be strong like that.
00:15:13.78\00:15:15.34
What didn't I have somebody,
you know, a father, or some,
00:15:15.38\00:15:19.11
you know some
positive male, a big brother...
00:15:19.15\00:15:21.42
Yeah, definitely.
00:15:21.45\00:15:22.78
You know, to
help me, and teach me
00:15:22.82\00:15:24.92
that that wasn't what I want.
00:15:24.95\00:15:26.35
What do you
think would have been
00:15:26.39\00:15:27.72
some of the
differences had you had
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.09
that father in a home?
00:15:29.12\00:15:30.66
Well, I tell you about my dad,
00:15:30.69\00:15:34.36
what I learned a lot about him
00:15:34.40\00:15:36.26
I can understand why
he wasn't in the home.
00:15:36.30\00:15:37.70
Okay.
00:15:37.73\00:15:39.07
You know, my dad
he depended on a gun.
00:15:39.10\00:15:41.97
And my mom said he was a coward.
00:15:42.00\00:15:44.24
I say because I told you
about those different projects.
00:15:44.27\00:15:46.57
Yeah.
00:15:46.61\00:15:47.94
They were run
by different gangs.
00:15:47.98\00:15:49.58
And as he went
to visit each one,
00:15:49.61\00:15:51.68
he became
whatever gang that were.
00:15:51.71\00:15:53.31
Wow. Wow.
00:15:53.35\00:15:55.78
Well, so how...
00:15:55.82\00:15:57.15
So, I mean, so how did
00:15:57.19\00:15:58.52
the lot of the
gangs there being that,
00:15:58.55\00:15:59.89
you know, they would know him
and know that he switched into,
00:15:59.92\00:16:02.06
you know, switch in
the different gangs.
00:16:02.09\00:16:03.43
Well, they
apparently never found out.
00:16:03.46\00:16:04.79
Never found. wow.
00:16:04.83\00:16:06.16
Because he probably wouldn't
be alive today if they had.
00:16:06.19\00:16:07.76
Wow.
00:16:07.80\00:16:09.90
So growing up do you,
00:16:09.93\00:16:11.27
did you get
involved in any drugs,
00:16:11.30\00:16:12.63
alcohol or
anything along those lines?
00:16:12.67\00:16:14.20
You know, I was
prejudiced against folk
00:16:14.24\00:16:17.14
who smoked marijuana,
00:16:17.17\00:16:18.51
my brother's
daughter smoking marijuana,
00:16:18.54\00:16:20.31
and I caught him what if,
00:16:20.34\00:16:21.91
you know, there
is name in Chicago
00:16:21.94\00:16:23.65
they called Crackheads.
00:16:23.68\00:16:25.01
Okay.
00:16:25.05\00:16:26.38
I'm sorry that they
call people who use cocaine.
00:16:26.41\00:16:29.78
They call them Crackheads
and they call them Hypes.
00:16:29.82\00:16:31.59
Okay.
00:16:31.62\00:16:32.95
And I used to call my
brothers hypes all the time,
00:16:32.99\00:16:34.99
and they say, "We
only smoking weed,
00:16:35.02\00:16:36.42
we ain't smoking crack."
00:16:36.46\00:16:37.79
I said, "Well, what
you think going to be next,
00:16:37.83\00:16:39.26
you know, when the weed
can't get you high more.
00:16:39.29\00:16:41.76
And it's so funny
00:16:41.80\00:16:43.13
because I went
through a depression one time.
00:16:43.16\00:16:46.63
A period, I put a lot
of love into a girlfriend,
00:16:46.67\00:16:49.17
and when that relationship
broke up I was vulnerable,
00:16:49.20\00:16:52.34
and a cousin
introduced me to marijuana.
00:16:52.37\00:16:54.38
Okay.
00:16:54.41\00:16:55.74
And that was the
first time, this was in 1997
00:16:55.78\00:16:58.71
that I actually tried marijuana.
00:16:58.75\00:17:00.08
Okay.
00:17:00.12\00:17:01.45
Wasn't this part
of a gang ritual,
00:17:01.48\00:17:02.82
or any of that
type of, type of stuff.
00:17:02.85\00:17:05.35
Drinking, I tried in high school
00:17:05.39\00:17:07.02
and I stopped instantly.
00:17:07.06\00:17:08.86
I didn't understand
00:17:08.89\00:17:10.23
how somebody wanted
a headache out of that,
00:17:10.26\00:17:11.99
you know, couldn't have do it.
00:17:12.03\00:17:13.36
Wow, wow.
00:17:13.40\00:17:14.73
So looking back on your life,
00:17:14.76\00:17:17.17
what do you think
were some of the positive
00:17:17.20\00:17:19.23
versus some of the negative
influences in your life?
00:17:19.27\00:17:21.54
Well, positive
influences I found at church.
00:17:21.57\00:17:24.94
I actually bragged...
00:17:24.97\00:17:26.84
You know, went
home to the projects
00:17:26.88\00:17:29.18
and bragged about my
pathfinder instructor.
00:17:29.21\00:17:31.95
You know, and I
bragged about the...
00:17:31.98\00:17:35.28
some of the
elders in the church.
00:17:35.32\00:17:36.65
My Sabbath school teacher,
you know, he was a male.
00:17:36.69\00:17:39.35
Most were a males
that I bragged about.
00:17:39.39\00:17:42.49
There was all
the males that I had.
00:17:42.52\00:17:44.13
Yeah, okay.
00:17:44.16\00:17:45.49
My mom was my mother,
and my aunts were my dad.
00:17:45.53\00:17:49.00
Mean and they didn't let
me get away with anything,
00:17:49.03\00:17:51.33
if I smut, they were on it.
00:17:51.37\00:17:52.83
Wow.
00:17:52.87\00:17:54.20
You know, if you rose
your eyes a certain way,
00:17:54.24\00:17:56.47
they were on it, you know.
00:17:56.50\00:17:57.94
Yeah, wow, wow.
00:17:57.97\00:17:59.31
How do you think the effect
is upon another young man,
00:17:59.34\00:18:02.34
especially a young man
who doesn't have a father
00:18:02.38\00:18:04.15
in the home?
00:18:04.18\00:18:05.51
That may lead him to
a lifestyle, a crime,
00:18:05.55\00:18:08.32
and different things like that.
00:18:08.35\00:18:09.75
And the reason I
asked that question
00:18:09.78\00:18:11.12
is because I grew up in a home
00:18:11.15\00:18:12.65
where I had both parents,
00:18:12.69\00:18:14.26
and though
everything wasn't hunky-dory
00:18:14.29\00:18:16.06
just because I had both parents,
00:18:16.09\00:18:17.63
I still
gravitated to the streets.
00:18:17.66\00:18:19.56
I'm a street drug gravitated
to the drugs, the alcohol,
00:18:19.59\00:18:22.66
the cocaine, the
marijuana, different things
00:18:22.70\00:18:24.33
along those lines.
00:18:24.37\00:18:25.70
But what do you think
another child's impact
00:18:25.73\00:18:29.24
has upon not having
that parent in the home?
00:18:29.27\00:18:32.21
Well, it's a lot of
elements, you know, because
00:18:32.24\00:18:35.94
we didn't have both
parents in our home.
00:18:35.98\00:18:38.31
You know, but we didn't
have a mama that was saying,
00:18:38.35\00:18:40.72
"You're gonna be
just like your dad,
00:18:40.75\00:18:42.25
who is in penitentiary.
00:18:42.28\00:18:43.62
Yeah, that's very important,
I think that's very good.
00:18:43.65\00:18:45.45
You got a lot of dads that went
to penitentiary, and sometimes,
00:18:45.49\00:18:49.56
you know, I would
hear it even today
00:18:49.59\00:18:51.46
you hear mothers
tell their children,
00:18:51.49\00:18:53.60
"You're gonna be
just like your dad."
00:18:53.63\00:18:54.96
You're gonna be this,
00:18:55.00\00:18:56.33
you ain't gonna be
nothing this and all.
00:18:56.36\00:18:57.70
Yeah. Wow.
00:18:57.73\00:18:59.07
You know, so they had...
00:18:59.10\00:19:00.44
It's almost like
setting up a child for failure.
00:19:00.47\00:19:01.80
Yes, different
elements, you know,
00:19:01.84\00:19:03.67
they contribute to what
role a child takes in life.
00:19:03.71\00:19:09.94
You know, you have
some who may have a father
00:19:09.98\00:19:12.68
who is in a penitentiary,
00:19:12.71\00:19:14.05
and that may motivate them
not be in the penitentiary.
00:19:14.08\00:19:16.42
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
00:19:16.45\00:19:17.79
You know, I tell it is, my mom
at one point was a 21 year old
00:19:17.82\00:19:23.63
with three kids by
three different dads.
00:19:23.66\00:19:25.43
Hmm, wow.
00:19:25.46\00:19:27.86
My dad not being
there didn't hurt me.
00:19:27.90\00:19:29.80
Okay.
00:19:29.83\00:19:31.23
My younger brother,
youngest brother his dad,
00:19:31.27\00:19:35.14
well, his dad
was there in and out,
00:19:35.17\00:19:37.41
you know, and they
eventually got married,
00:19:37.44\00:19:39.77
but it didn't hurt him.
00:19:39.81\00:19:41.14
But my middle
brother his dad being out,
00:19:41.18\00:19:43.68
it angered him.
00:19:43.71\00:19:45.18
And now that
anger is being shown
00:19:45.21\00:19:47.05
in his own
relationship with his child.
00:19:47.08\00:19:49.02
Hmm. Wow, wow.
00:19:49.05\00:19:50.72
Looking back on
your life growing up
00:19:50.75\00:19:52.45
in inner city Chicago.
00:19:52.49\00:19:54.62
What are some instances
that you could talk about
00:19:54.66\00:19:57.26
where you specifically saw
the hand of God protecting you?
00:19:57.29\00:20:00.36
Well, so many.
00:20:00.40\00:20:03.13
You know, I am 41 years old now.
00:20:03.16\00:20:06.63
I could remember
something that I did at 19
00:20:06.67\00:20:10.01
where I probably
be just getting out
00:20:10.04\00:20:11.61
of the penitentiary last year.
00:20:11.64\00:20:14.08
Wow.
00:20:14.11\00:20:15.44
I can tell you
another instance where,
00:20:17.08\00:20:20.42
as far as gang related,
you know, there were many.
00:20:20.45\00:20:23.52
You know, there were many,
00:20:23.55\00:20:24.99
many going
through those projects,
00:20:25.02\00:20:28.52
you know, where,
00:20:28.56\00:20:29.89
I probably about give
my brains blowing out.
00:20:29.92\00:20:32.03
You know, if I hadn't,
00:20:32.06\00:20:33.60
if the Lord didn't
make me look to the left.
00:20:33.63\00:20:35.16
Yeah, okay.
00:20:35.20\00:20:36.53
You know, or at one time,
he made me look to this God,
00:20:36.56\00:20:40.30
and I tell you this.
00:20:40.34\00:20:41.67
There was the one
building down there,
00:20:41.70\00:20:43.57
told you the GD's they
were very notorious gang.
00:20:43.61\00:20:48.18
Okay.
00:20:48.21\00:20:49.94
And they love violence.
00:20:49.98\00:20:51.31
Yeah, wow.
00:20:51.35\00:20:52.75
So, sometime they
want to fight each other.
00:20:52.78\00:20:55.02
So there was one building
00:20:55.05\00:20:56.38
they didn't care
where you were from
00:20:56.42\00:20:57.75
or who you were.
00:20:57.79\00:20:59.12
Yeah.
00:20:59.15\00:21:00.49
You come in their
building, they want to fight.
00:21:00.52\00:21:01.86
Yeah.
00:21:01.89\00:21:03.22
And I had a
nephew that lived there.
00:21:03.26\00:21:04.59
So I had to go there,
that was so often that,
00:21:04.63\00:21:05.96
oh man, I dreaded it every time,
00:21:05.99\00:21:08.76
you know,
because I knew these guys
00:21:08.80\00:21:10.60
can really say something to me.
00:21:10.63\00:21:11.97
Yeah.
00:21:12.00\00:21:13.34
So I'm going with
my cousin one time,
00:21:13.37\00:21:14.70
we're taking her groceries,
00:21:14.74\00:21:16.07
we went grocery shop from there,
00:21:16.10\00:21:17.81
and God, they were all outside,
it was, I mean, pack bats,
00:21:17.84\00:21:21.84
golf gloves,
everything they use, you know,
00:21:21.88\00:21:24.61
and they guy said, yeah,
00:21:24.65\00:21:25.98
we're gonna touch them up
from the top of their hairs
00:21:26.01\00:21:28.32
to their toenails, all right.
00:21:28.35\00:21:30.55
I'm like whoa.
00:21:30.59\00:21:31.92
Looking back now
you can laugh about it.
00:21:31.95\00:21:33.29
They're getting
ready to get me, you know.
00:21:33.32\00:21:34.79
So my cousin, he's
acting as if nothing is wrong,
00:21:34.82\00:21:37.66
like what's wrong with him,
00:21:37.69\00:21:39.03
he didn't just hear
what they said, you know.
00:21:39.06\00:21:40.60
Yeah.
00:21:40.63\00:21:41.96
So we get
delivered the groceries,
00:21:42.00\00:21:43.57
and we're coming back out.
00:21:43.60\00:21:45.40
Coming out of the gangway,
you coming out of the gangway,
00:21:45.43\00:21:48.70
you get a little
glimpse of the sky.
00:21:48.74\00:21:50.27
Okay.
00:21:50.31\00:21:51.64
Lord had me look up at
the sky, I don't know why.
00:21:51.67\00:21:54.04
But the clouds seemed
to form rows of angels,
00:21:54.08\00:21:58.48
and there was another piece
of a cloud off to city side
00:21:58.51\00:22:01.05
with his hand up like this.
00:22:01.08\00:22:02.42
Okay.
00:22:02.45\00:22:03.79
And I say, "Whoa,
he is ready to charge."
00:22:03.82\00:22:05.55
Yeah.
00:22:05.59\00:22:06.92
And I heard the Lord say,
00:22:06.96\00:22:08.29
"Before I let them
touch one hair on your head,
00:22:08.32\00:22:10.86
I've got allegiance of angels."
00:22:10.89\00:22:12.76
Wow.
00:22:12.79\00:22:14.13
And I'll tell you, it
put a lot of courage in me
00:22:14.16\00:22:16.36
because it scared me.
00:22:16.40\00:22:18.50
Poked his chest out, I
think I strutted to my car.
00:22:18.53\00:22:20.54
Yeah.
00:22:20.57\00:22:21.90
You know, and
nobody say a one word
00:22:21.94\00:22:23.41
to either one of them.
00:22:23.44\00:22:24.77
Wow, wow, that's amazing.
00:22:24.81\00:22:26.14
Now you eventually were
able to walk away from the gang.
00:22:26.17\00:22:28.81
How were you able to
walk away from the gang where,
00:22:28.84\00:22:31.35
you know, a lot of times,
00:22:31.38\00:22:32.71
when you're in it,
you're in it forever,
00:22:32.75\00:22:34.25
you're gonna die
this, you can't get out.
00:22:34.28\00:22:36.75
How were you able to
get out with your life?
00:22:36.79\00:22:39.45
There's this saying
that they like to go about,
00:22:39.49\00:22:41.62
once a G, or once a
gangster always a gangster?
00:22:41.66\00:22:44.33
Yeah.
00:22:44.36\00:22:46.16
Well, I never...
00:22:46.19\00:22:49.66
Well, before I
wanted to get out,
00:22:49.70\00:22:52.70
I probably didn't
think about the time
00:22:52.73\00:22:54.84
where I wouldn't be a gangster.
00:22:54.87\00:22:56.20
Yeah.
00:22:56.24\00:22:57.57
Because I was actually fooled,
00:22:57.61\00:22:58.94
I actually thought I
would be a gangster for life,
00:22:58.97\00:23:02.41
you know, I actually thought
what Larry Hoover's vision was
00:23:02.44\00:23:06.51
that his gangsters go to school,
00:23:06.55\00:23:08.82
and become productive
citizens in the community.
00:23:08.85\00:23:11.05
Okay.
00:23:11.09\00:23:12.42
And that's how as gangsters
we were going to take over.
00:23:12.45\00:23:14.92
Yeah.
00:23:14.96\00:23:16.29
But there was an instance
00:23:16.32\00:23:17.66
that took place that
had a part to play in.
00:23:17.69\00:23:19.73
Okay.
00:23:19.76\00:23:21.10
And not long
after that took place
00:23:21.13\00:23:24.07
I wanted out of the gang.
00:23:24.10\00:23:25.43
Okay.
00:23:25.47\00:23:26.80
Now there was before where
00:23:26.84\00:23:29.20
it was rumored that
to get out of the gang,
00:23:29.24\00:23:31.87
you either get shot
somewhere below your waist,
00:23:31.91\00:23:34.94
or you get a dead
valleys, we beat you out of it.
00:23:34.98\00:23:37.05
Yeah, wow.
00:23:37.08\00:23:38.41
Well, I prayed to the Lord,
00:23:38.45\00:23:39.95
you know, and it wasn't so much
00:23:39.98\00:23:41.98
that they didn't
do anything to me.
00:23:42.02\00:23:44.02
Okay.
00:23:44.05\00:23:45.39
I prayed to the Lord that
00:23:45.42\00:23:46.76
he forgive me
for what I had did,
00:23:46.79\00:23:48.12
and that he would accept me.
00:23:48.16\00:23:49.49
Yeah.
00:23:49.52\00:23:50.86
And that even if I had to die,
I'm getting ready to get out.
00:23:50.89\00:23:52.99
Hmm, wow.
00:23:53.03\00:23:54.36
So I went to the gang meeting
00:23:54.40\00:23:56.67
and I let the
guys know I wanted out.
00:23:56.70\00:23:59.17
So about at what age were you
00:23:59.20\00:24:00.67
when you were
getting out of the gang?
00:24:00.70\00:24:02.20
Well, I got out in 1995.
00:24:02.24\00:24:04.24
Okay.
00:24:04.27\00:24:05.61
So I was 22 years old.
00:24:05.64\00:24:06.98
Okay.
00:24:07.01\00:24:08.34
Yeah.
00:24:09.21\00:24:10.55
So how did those that you were
speaking to about getting out,
00:24:10.58\00:24:13.72
how did they view
you at that point?
00:24:13.75\00:24:15.38
Oh, my cousins,
they were really upset.
00:24:15.42\00:24:18.15
Okay.
00:24:18.19\00:24:19.52
Being a member with rank,
00:24:19.55\00:24:20.89
you know, they probably want
to see their cousin go higher.
00:24:20.92\00:24:23.32
Yeah, wow.
00:24:23.36\00:24:24.69
And then they
probably looked at it as,
00:24:24.73\00:24:26.29
"Oh, he is a punk, you
know, he wants to get out."
00:24:26.33\00:24:28.86
Wow.
00:24:28.90\00:24:30.50
I had other guys who
would come to me saying,
00:24:30.53\00:24:32.73
"Man, you know, shake my hand.
00:24:32.77\00:24:34.10
You steer my gangster
this, and that, and the other.
00:24:34.14\00:24:35.80
Okay.
00:24:35.84\00:24:37.17
I think to myself now
I'm nobody's, I'm going.
00:24:37.21\00:24:41.98
Okay.
00:24:42.01\00:24:43.75
Okay, so looking
back on your life,
00:24:43.78\00:24:45.45
what are some of the things
that you would change and why?
00:24:45.48\00:24:47.98
What are some of the
things that you would not change
00:24:48.02\00:24:49.72
that have made you into
the person you are today?
00:24:49.75\00:24:51.79
Okay. Good question.
00:24:51.82\00:24:54.29
I'm what I would change is,
00:24:54.32\00:24:57.93
I probably would, well,
00:24:57.96\00:25:01.10
I don't know what I would change
00:25:01.13\00:25:02.53
because I've
learned so much, you know.
00:25:02.56\00:25:04.50
Okay.
00:25:04.53\00:25:07.07
I can't think of anything
00:25:07.10\00:25:08.47
that I'd-- because I don't know
how that would've developed.
00:25:08.50\00:25:10.81
Yeah wow.
00:25:10.84\00:25:12.27
So, not much that
I would've changed,
00:25:12.31\00:25:15.08
I'm kind of proud of the
fact that I'm a black person.
00:25:15.11\00:25:17.75
Yeah.
00:25:17.78\00:25:19.11
That I came from
where I came from, you know,
00:25:19.15\00:25:21.72
I look at what's going on
00:25:21.75\00:25:23.72
with the people
in the projects now.
00:25:23.75\00:25:25.15
Okay.
00:25:25.19\00:25:26.52
You know, they
don't have a voice,
00:25:26.55\00:25:27.89
you know, so I
feel like, you know,
00:25:27.92\00:25:29.69
I can't speak for them,
00:25:29.72\00:25:31.06
you know, because not
everybody was really bad.
00:25:31.09\00:25:33.50
Yeah, yeah,
definitely, definitely.
00:25:33.53\00:25:36.10
You said what I wouldn't change?
00:25:36.13\00:25:37.77
Yeah.
00:25:37.80\00:25:39.13
Yeah, that's pretty much. Okay.
00:25:39.17\00:25:40.84
So, now gonna back, you know,
there's a lot of young people
00:25:40.87\00:25:43.30
that want to be a part of gangs.
00:25:43.34\00:25:44.71
They see things going on
00:25:44.74\00:25:46.07
whether it's in real
life or whether it's on TV.
00:25:46.11\00:25:49.01
What can be done to
prevent young people
00:25:49.04\00:25:51.81
from actually
wanting to join the gang
00:25:51.85\00:25:54.65
and steer their life
in the right direction.
00:25:54.68\00:25:56.48
Well, that's the,
00:25:56.52\00:25:57.85
that's the question
Chicago is trying to find out.
00:25:57.89\00:25:59.89
Oh, wow.
00:25:59.92\00:26:01.99
There are so
many elements again.
00:26:02.02\00:26:03.53
Okay.
00:26:03.56\00:26:04.89
And it reverse back to the time
00:26:04.93\00:26:07.36
when our ancestors
migrated up to the north.
00:26:07.40\00:26:09.33
Okay.
00:26:09.36\00:26:10.70
You know, gangs were formed
00:26:10.73\00:26:12.07
as a haven
against police brutality.
00:26:12.10\00:26:17.31
Okay.
00:26:17.34\00:26:18.67
You know, so that's one thing
that needs to be rooted out,
00:26:18.71\00:26:21.51
you know, police brutality,
or just speaking to the person,
00:26:21.54\00:26:25.21
you know, who is
in that right now.
00:26:25.25\00:26:27.75
I mean if I put myself there,
00:26:27.78\00:26:29.35
and I'm looking
at one of my sons
00:26:29.38\00:26:31.09
who wants to be in a
gang this and then the other.
00:26:31.12\00:26:34.59
I don't know how I
will really respond,
00:26:34.62\00:26:36.66
you know, I already told
them I'm gonna whip their
00:26:36.69\00:26:38.09
but if I catch them
with their pants hanging off.
00:26:38.13\00:26:39.93
Yeah.
00:26:39.96\00:26:41.30
But education, you know, love,
00:26:42.00\00:26:45.73
you got to love, you got to hug.
00:26:45.77\00:26:47.80
You know, you got to teach
them that they are somebody,
00:26:47.84\00:26:50.31
you know, you
got to help them find
00:26:50.34\00:26:52.01
who God created them to be.
00:26:52.04\00:26:53.64
You know what talents
did He instill in them,
00:26:53.68\00:26:55.74
and you try to work at it.
00:26:55.78\00:26:57.11
Okay, okay.
00:26:57.15\00:26:58.48
What I want you to
do real quick for about
00:26:58.51\00:26:59.85
the next 30-40 seconds
is looking to the camera,
00:26:59.88\00:27:02.15
and I want you to
talk to that young person
00:27:02.18\00:27:03.75
that is considering
getting into a gang,
00:27:03.79\00:27:06.35
or even doesn't want to
have a relationship with Jesus,
00:27:06.39\00:27:09.86
would rather, you know,
00:27:09.89\00:27:11.23
chase fast money, fast
women, things like that.
00:27:11.26\00:27:13.50
Talk to that
young person right now?
00:27:13.53\00:27:16.53
To the young
man, or a young woman,
00:27:16.56\00:27:18.50
that's
contemplating joining a gang.
00:27:18.53\00:27:21.40
You may want to reconsider.
00:27:21.44\00:27:23.81
Take it from
someone that has been there.
00:27:23.84\00:27:26.01
It's not all good
and glamorous it looks.
00:27:26.04\00:27:29.51
Gang members, a
lot of gang members,
00:27:29.54\00:27:31.35
a lot of my peers were killed
by members of their own gang.
00:27:31.38\00:27:36.05
If anything, you
may want to find out
00:27:36.08\00:27:37.92
who God made you to be.
00:27:37.95\00:27:39.95
Find out what talents
God has blessed you with,
00:27:39.99\00:27:43.06
and try to develop those talents
00:27:43.09\00:27:44.79
all for the glory of God.
00:27:44.83\00:27:46.16
Amen. Amen.
00:27:46.19\00:27:48.06
Well, Kitrell,
we want to thank you
00:27:48.10\00:27:49.43
for being on our program
00:27:49.46\00:27:50.80
and sharing your
testimony of how God took you
00:27:50.83\00:27:52.50
from the gang to serving Him.
00:27:52.53\00:27:54.87
Viewers, we want to
thank you for tuning in.
00:27:54.90\00:27:56.60
Be sure to tune in next time
00:27:56.64\00:27:57.97
for an exciting
program of The New Journey.
00:27:58.01\00:27:59.67
Be blessed.
00:27:59.71\00:28:01.04