The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to The New Journey,
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a program about real life people
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with real life testimonies,
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doing real life
ministry for Jesus Christ.
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I'm your host
Pastor Marquis Johns.
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Join us on The New Journey.
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The Bible has a number
of interesting stories,
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none more so than
the story of Daniel.
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Daniel who spent a
night in the den of lions
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only to be rescued
from that den of lions
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and exalted to a
high place in government.
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Well, on today's program
we have one such a Daniel,
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one who has been in
the proverbial lion's den
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and who is now in an
administrative capacity
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helping others
who are in a situation
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he once found himself in.
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Daniel, thank you for being
with us on this new journey.
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Thank you.
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Well, we'd like to
get into your story
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by first finding out,
tell us where you're from?
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Where you grew up and
about your early family life?
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Well, I was
born in Winston-Salem
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in North Carolina.
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The youngest of three
children, two sisters,
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but I was, I was
actually born as a twin
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but my twin brother died
when we were two months old.
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My mother died when I
was less than two years old.
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My father was an
alcoholic, a bum actually,
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he traveled the rails.
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He came home
periodically but very rarely.
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So I was raised
by my grandmother
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and her alcoholic husband
and she died when I was 13.
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Mercy.
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And so from there,
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my sisters and I
practically raised ourselves.
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So we got into
all kinds of trouble,
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of course, but I actually
ran with the gang of that day,
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they called 'The Red
Bandanas' in Winston-Salem,
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North Carolina.
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But my grandfather decided
that I was just incorrigible.
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So he started giving me alcohol
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more and more, and he
would beat us unmercifully
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when he would come home.
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And my grandmother
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had made arrangements
with her best friend
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that if she died that she
would marry my grandfather
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who was my
grandfather by marriage only.
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Wow!
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And so they didn't
get along very well.
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So it was inevitable
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that I would hang
out with the wrong crowd
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and wouldn't go to school.
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I was an 'A' student
in an elementary school.
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By the time I
got to high school,
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didn't want to go to school.
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Eventually I got
expelled from high school
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and decided that, that was okay.
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And I had a
police record by then,
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but then after I
became a ward of the state
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because I was just incorrigible.
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Wow!
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And I asked my
grandfather one day,
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I said, "You know, I want
to do something with my life.
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I'm tired of this."
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And my grandfather said "Okay,
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I'll sign you up to
go into the military."
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Fine, I was 16, ready to go.
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Wrong move
because I got in the Navy
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and right at the Vietnam time,
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I got out of boot
camp, went to Vietnam
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started using
drugs drinking alcohol
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while I was in the military.
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And when I got out, I
was 21 when I got out,
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and my friends had all talked
about Philadelphia so much
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that I decided I just had
to go to see Philadelphia.
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So I want to, I
want to break in here.
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This story is quickly
getting very interesting
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because it seems as though
all of the people who would,
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should have loved you have died.
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Right.
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And so that leaves you as,
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you said your
grandmother finally passed out
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when you're 13.
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Thirteen.
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And how old was your sister,
your older sister was how old?
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My older sister
at that time was 17.
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So 17 years of age.
Your middle sister is?
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She was 15. 15.
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17, 15 and 13
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and you are for the
most part raising yourselves,
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trying to do the
best that you possibly can
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to become
productive members of society,
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but nonetheless
you have a grandfather
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who deans you worthy of alcohol
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and he starts
pumping alcohol into you.
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And so you are, you...
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I mean this makes
for an interesting story
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on a number of fronts,
but most more specifically
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because it doesn't seem
like you had any real guidance.
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I did.
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And not having
guidance, I mean the reality is
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if we would let
that analogy play out.
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If you don't have guidance,
you get off the pathway.
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Right.
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And so you found
yourself in the military at 16.
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You go over to Vietnam now,
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at that point in the early '60s,
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you know, psychedelic
drug use is on the rise,
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everybody is doing it,
everybody is trying it,
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but that is tempered
with you being in Vietnam,
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did you see active duty?
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Were you out on in the
battle, on the battlefield?
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Actually on the
ship and on the land
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because I was part of the search
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and rescue operation.
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If someone got
bogged down in a firefight,
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then we had to go in
and get them out of that.
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So tell us about a 16
year old boy in the Navy
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because I mean at
this stage in your life
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that the
reality is 16 years old,
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that's still a
child, that's still a boy.
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Tell us about
the 16 year old boy
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who's now in
Vietnam seeing people die,
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being around death
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whether on the
boat or in the field,
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death is surrounding you
and it seems like and I hate,
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I don't mean to sound so gloom,
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but death seems to
be everywhere you are.
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And it didn't faze me.
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So it was just
one of those things.
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After a while it
became part of me.
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Just to be around that. Yes.
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So how long do you
serve in the military?
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For three years. Three years.
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I was what you would
call a Kiddy Cruiser.
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Okay. Well, explain
that to us and the viewer.
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That's the person that goes
in just shy of the 17th birthday
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and they get out at 21.
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Okay.
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So you're 21, you're released
and I'm sure you have some,
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you've been
around the world now.
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You know and so you
come back to Philadelphia?
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I actually went
back to Winston-Salem,
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North Carolina first.
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Okay.
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Because I got married
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and that was an
interesting story there.
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I got married to the
Seventh-day Adventist.
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Oh! But I wasn't the
Seventh-day Adventist.
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Okay, okay.
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But she told me if
I want to marry her,
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I had to become a
Seventh-day Adventist.
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So I got married one month,
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went into the
military the next month.
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Okay.
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And my son was
born the next month.
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Oh, wow.
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So...
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So you come back to
your wife and child.
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Right.
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In Winston-Salem,
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all your friends
are talking about
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this wonderful city
called Philadelphia.
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Yes.
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And so what do
you and the family do?
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Well, actually I decided
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that I was going to move
to Chester, Pennsylvania.
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And so I could be
close to Philadelphia.
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So I could go over
any time I got ready
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and I was going to
send for my wife later
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and then from my
wife and I didn't see out
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for whatever reason.
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But, so I was in
Philadelphia for a while,
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in Chester for a while,
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and when my wife and
I decided to pull it up,
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by this time I
had three children.
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But by the time that
we decided to split up,
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I was working every
night for Scott Paper Company,
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but then I
actually had a breakdown
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because of the drugs
that I'd gotten into.
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And...
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So the drug habit
follows you back from Vietnam?
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It did. It did.
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And this probably
or most likely affected
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the relationship
between you and your wife?
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Oh, I'm sure it did. Okay.
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And so the drugs,
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the drug habit
has kept up with you,
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it's still on your back
and so you get to Chester,
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Pennsylvania. Yeah.
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And so pick up, pick
up the story from there?
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Well, after she decided
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that she didn't want
to move to Pennsylvania,
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then I started
experimenting with other drugs.
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And one morning, I actually
woke up in New York City
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and my sister, my older
sister lived in New York,
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but I woke up in New York City
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and had no idea how I got there.
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And you were at that
time living in Chester,
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Pennsylvania?
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I was living in
Chester, Pennsylvania.
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And just, do you remember
what happened the night before?
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I have no idea.
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So you just wake up one
morning in New York City?
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In New York City
and the strange how,
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I have no idea how I got there.
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Okay, okay.
00:09:24.73\00:09:26.06
And so, you know, of
course, I called my sister
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and said "Okay, I need to
get back to Pennsylvania."
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And I had no money
and my sister said,
00:09:33.67\00:09:35.70
"Okay, I'll give you to
get back to Pennsylvania.
00:09:35.74\00:09:38.31
And so I went
back to Pennsylvania,
00:09:38.34\00:09:41.28
but by this time I'd
been in New York too long,
00:09:41.31\00:09:43.58
I'd been in New York three days
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and didn't even
know I was there.
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Wow!
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So I lost my job
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and so I just
turned to drugs completely.
00:09:49.72\00:09:54.72
My cousin Kenny who is dead
now moved up to Pennsylvania.
00:09:54.76\00:10:00.73
He had a
girlfriend in Philadelphia,
00:10:00.76\00:10:02.83
we moved to Philadelphia
00:10:02.86\00:10:04.83
and we became
terrorizers of Philadelphia.
00:10:04.87\00:10:11.67
My cousin and I, we were just,
00:10:11.71\00:10:15.04
we would open the
bar in the morning
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and close the bar at night.
00:10:16.95\00:10:18.28
And not because
you were working there?
00:10:18.31\00:10:19.65
I wasn't working.
00:10:19.68\00:10:21.02
Yeah, you were just there
first thing in the morning?
00:10:21.05\00:10:22.75
I didn't work anywhere.
00:10:22.78\00:10:24.12
My cousin didn't work anywhere.
00:10:24.15\00:10:26.05
In fact, I hate to say it
now but we were getting welfare.
00:10:26.09\00:10:29.66
Wow!
00:10:29.69\00:10:31.03
Pennsylvania welfare and
using it on drugs and alcohol,
00:10:31.06\00:10:34.26
above we were
also robbing people
00:10:34.30\00:10:37.07
and robbing banks and whatnot.
00:10:37.10\00:10:38.53
There it goes right there.
00:10:38.57\00:10:39.93
So the kid
00:10:39.97\00:10:43.00
who grows up where
mom dies, grandma dies,
00:10:43.04\00:10:48.61
everybody
around him seems to die
00:10:48.64\00:10:50.88
who goes into the Navy,
00:10:50.91\00:10:53.82
just becomes desensitized,
00:10:53.85\00:10:55.58
completely
desensitized to death,
00:10:55.62\00:10:57.75
gets out of the Armed Forces,
00:10:57.79\00:11:00.09
one failed marriage
at 21, 22 years of age,
00:11:00.12\00:11:03.53
move up to
Chester, Pennsylvania.
00:11:03.56\00:11:05.53
This drug habit that
you started in Vietnam
00:11:05.56\00:11:10.27
follows you back
to Winston-Salem,
00:11:10.30\00:11:12.73
follows you up to
Chester, Pennsylvania.
00:11:12.77\00:11:15.20
You wake up after a
three day binge obviously,
00:11:15.24\00:11:18.91
not even knowing where you are,
but you're in New York City.
00:11:18.94\00:11:22.04
And so then the game is a
foot, you bring your cousin out,
00:11:22.08\00:11:25.75
you guys just began as you
said to open and close bars
00:11:25.78\00:11:28.65
and not because
you were working there.
00:11:28.68\00:11:31.79
And there has to come a point
where with this drug habit,
00:11:31.82\00:11:36.32
you have to support it
00:11:36.36\00:11:38.23
because a drug
habit can grow beyond
00:11:38.26\00:11:41.70
what the means of welfare
can provide and take care of.
00:11:41.73\00:11:44.67
So what are you doing to meet
your ever growing drug needs?
00:11:44.70\00:11:49.44
Well, at that point I
decided to start selling drugs.
00:11:49.47\00:11:52.67
And it was easy to
supply my own habit then,
00:11:52.71\00:11:57.01
but after a while
that got the best of me.
00:11:57.05\00:12:00.08
And so I had to go
back to the situation
00:12:00.12\00:12:04.89
that I knew best that
I had to steal and rob
00:12:04.92\00:12:09.09
in order to keep up the habit.
00:12:09.12\00:12:11.73
Now you said you
robbed in stores,
00:12:11.76\00:12:13.80
but I heard you also
mentioned robbing bank.
00:12:13.83\00:12:17.43
Yes.
00:12:17.47\00:12:18.80
Oh, talk to me about...
00:12:18.83\00:12:20.17
Now how old were
you at this point?
00:12:20.20\00:12:21.74
I'll be 66 in about 10 days.
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.61
How old were you when
you begin robbing stores
00:12:23.64\00:12:26.24
and this drug habit?
00:12:26.27\00:12:27.61
How old were you at this
point? I was about 23, 24.
00:12:27.64\00:12:30.55
So 23 years old.
00:12:30.58\00:12:31.91
You and your cousin are
going to start robbing banks.
00:12:31.95\00:12:36.85
Do you ever rob a bank?
00:12:36.89\00:12:39.85
We robbed one bank.
00:12:39.89\00:12:41.22
Okay, and what
happened in that incident?
00:12:41.26\00:12:44.16
Well, the stats of limitations
ran out a long time ago,
00:12:44.19\00:12:47.16
then we got caught.
00:12:47.20\00:12:48.66
Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:12:48.70\00:12:50.93
So I'm sure that
this type of drug habit,
00:12:50.97\00:12:55.74
this type of
lifestyle is going to lead
00:12:55.77\00:12:58.74
where most drug habits lead,
either to death or in prison.
00:12:58.77\00:13:03.91
You're still here.
00:13:03.95\00:13:05.41
So I'm assuming at some point
00:13:05.45\00:13:06.98
you had a run in
with the authority
00:13:07.02\00:13:09.05
or maybe you've
been having continual,
00:13:09.08\00:13:11.05
at this point continual run,
run-ins with the authorities.
00:13:11.09\00:13:14.06
Tell us about, a
little bit about?
00:13:14.09\00:13:15.42
I had continuous
run-in with the authorities.
00:13:15.46\00:13:17.73
Frank Rizzo was the...
00:13:17.76\00:13:19.09
Wow!
00:13:19.13\00:13:20.46
Was the police
commissioner at that time.
00:13:20.50\00:13:23.06
And so we had
plenty of run-ins with him.
00:13:23.10\00:13:28.20
So I was in and out of jail.
00:13:28.24\00:13:31.77
And then one day
I got really high
00:13:31.81\00:13:35.38
and full alcohol and to this day
00:13:35.41\00:13:40.18
I don't know what happened,
00:13:40.22\00:13:41.62
but I end up taking a
life, I beat a person to death.
00:13:41.65\00:13:47.92
My baby sister came
up from North Carolina
00:13:47.96\00:13:52.49
and tried to convince
me that I hadn't done it.
00:13:52.53\00:13:56.13
And she almost had me convinced,
00:13:56.16\00:13:58.30
but then when my
lawyer came and said
00:13:58.33\00:14:02.54
that I should plead not guilty
00:14:02.57\00:14:04.71
and he could
probably get a deal for me.
00:14:04.74\00:14:06.78
I said "Okay, fine."
00:14:06.81\00:14:08.14
So I go back to the
jail to await court.
00:14:08.18\00:14:13.11
While I'm there,
00:14:13.15\00:14:17.05
I run into this
lady Alice A. Humph,
00:14:17.09\00:14:21.66
the mother of Auldwin Humphrey.
00:14:21.69\00:14:23.32
And for those who don't know,
00:14:23.36\00:14:24.69
Auldwin Humphrey is
currently the vice president
00:14:24.73\00:14:31.13
of the South Central Conference
00:14:31.17\00:14:33.67
down in Tennessee, Alabama.
00:14:33.70\00:14:38.34
Yes. Yeah.
00:14:38.37\00:14:39.71
And so she's
coming into the prison
00:14:39.74\00:14:42.18
and doing prison evangelism.
00:14:42.21\00:14:45.45
And she's bringing
these young girls with her.
00:14:45.48\00:14:48.68
So I'm not interested in
what she's talking about,
00:14:48.72\00:14:51.65
I want to see the young girls.
00:14:51.69\00:14:53.02
Right, right,
right. So where were we?
00:14:53.05\00:14:54.66
You're already sentenced,
you've been sentenced?
00:14:54.69\00:14:56.32
No. Okay.
00:14:56.36\00:14:57.69
So... I was awaiting.
00:14:57.73\00:14:59.06
Awaiting! I'm awaiting court.
Okay, awaiting court. Okay.
00:14:59.09\00:15:01.06
And so as she's coming in.
00:15:01.10\00:15:03.40
She's just going to the chapel
passing by the cell block area.
00:15:03.43\00:15:08.74
And so I'm standing on the gate
00:15:08.77\00:15:10.51
just looking at the
women and one day...
00:15:10.54\00:15:14.01
Excuse me.
00:15:14.04\00:15:15.38
She came over to the gate
which was against the rules.
00:15:15.41\00:15:18.61
She came over to the
gate and she says to me,
00:15:18.65\00:15:21.92
you're not a
criminal, you don't belong here.
00:15:21.95\00:15:24.55
And I'm saying to
myself "Who's this lady,
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.19
this lady don't know me."
00:15:27.22\00:15:28.96
But she persisted and she said,
00:15:28.99\00:15:31.19
"I want you to
come down to the chapel,
00:15:31.23\00:15:32.86
to the church service."
00:15:32.89\00:15:34.40
And I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."
00:15:34.43\00:15:36.16
And so she walked away.
00:15:36.20\00:15:38.50
I go back to my
cell and the officer,
00:15:38.53\00:15:43.10
the guard, they call
him guards at that time,
00:15:43.14\00:15:45.11
the officer came and
said, "I heard you tell a lady
00:15:45.14\00:15:47.88
that you was coming
down to the church."
00:15:47.91\00:15:49.24
I said "Yeah, just
get out of my face."
00:15:49.28\00:15:51.48
And he says "Well,
you shouldn't do that."
00:15:51.51\00:15:53.48
And I said "Well,
who are you telling me
00:15:53.52\00:15:55.45
I shouldn't do that?"
00:15:55.48\00:15:56.82
And he says
"Well, I'm the same guy
00:15:56.85\00:16:00.26
that you're
going to have to deal
00:16:00.29\00:16:02.29
with the rest of the night."
00:16:02.32\00:16:04.13
And I said
"What does that mean?"
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.76
He says "I'm a Christian.
00:16:05.79\00:16:07.16
You've got to deal with me
00:16:07.20\00:16:08.53
because I'm going to
talk to you about God
00:16:08.56\00:16:09.93
if you don't go
down to that chapel."
00:16:09.96\00:16:11.63
And I said "I don't
have to talk to you,
00:16:11.67\00:16:13.00
I don't have to talk to her."
00:16:13.03\00:16:14.37
I went back to my
cell, slammed the door
00:16:14.40\00:16:17.11
and I laid on my bunk.
00:16:17.14\00:16:19.17
But then in Acts 12:7 hit me,
00:16:19.21\00:16:23.31
and a light
shined in the prison.
00:16:23.35\00:16:25.55
And a light actually
shown through that window,
00:16:25.58\00:16:28.65
that slit in that wall
and I heard this voice said,
00:16:28.68\00:16:32.32
"Get up, go to the chapel."
00:16:32.35\00:16:34.19
I got up and I
started looking around,
00:16:34.22\00:16:36.66
nobody else was there but me,
but it has scared me to death.
00:16:36.69\00:16:40.50
I got up and I said,
00:16:40.53\00:16:42.66
"Well, I think I
better go down to the chapel."
00:16:42.70\00:16:44.93
I went down to the chapel.
00:16:44.97\00:16:46.30
Now one thing
when I was in a school
00:16:46.33\00:16:48.80
that I really loved was history.
00:16:48.84\00:16:51.41
So I go down to the
chapel and what is Mom Humphrey,
00:16:51.44\00:16:54.28
I call her Mom
Humphrey, she's deceased now.
00:16:54.31\00:16:57.25
But what is the one
thing she's teaching Daniel 2,
00:16:57.28\00:17:00.92
grab it.
00:17:00.95\00:17:02.35
And I asked her at the
end of that presentation
00:17:02.38\00:17:05.59
"Is any more of that
stuff in that Bible?"
00:17:05.62\00:17:07.36
And she said "Yeah,
whole lot, keep coming."
00:17:07.39\00:17:09.66
And so the next week
she goes to Daniel 7,
00:17:09.69\00:17:12.59
so forth and so on.
00:17:12.63\00:17:14.00
So by this time,
a little later on,
00:17:14.03\00:17:16.40
I'm really hooked on this stuff.
00:17:16.43\00:17:19.43
And she says, "Well,
do you write poetry?"
00:17:19.47\00:17:22.87
I said "Yeah." "Will you
write some poetry for us?"
00:17:22.90\00:17:24.34
"Sure I will."
00:17:24.37\00:17:25.71
Now what made her
think that you did?
00:17:25.74\00:17:27.31
I don't know.
00:17:27.34\00:17:28.68
I can't tell you this.
00:17:28.71\00:17:30.21
So give us a
snapshot if you will of,
00:17:30.25\00:17:33.62
how long is this,
00:17:33.65\00:17:35.18
from the day
that you're detained
00:17:35.22\00:17:38.02
until you are now
going to these Bible studies?
00:17:38.05\00:17:43.66
How long? How long?
00:17:43.69\00:17:45.03
This is about three months.
00:17:45.06\00:17:46.39
So you're still
waiting to be sentenced?
00:17:46.43\00:17:48.50
To go to court. To go to court?
00:17:48.53\00:17:49.93
I hadn't even gone to
court to make the plea deal.
00:17:49.96\00:17:52.37
Okay.
00:17:52.40\00:17:53.74
So by the time that
I do get call for court
00:17:53.77\00:17:58.07
then I'm now
Christian, not an Adventist,
00:17:58.11\00:18:00.74
but I'm a Christian.
00:18:00.78\00:18:02.34
And she's talking to me
00:18:02.38\00:18:04.81
more and more
about as a Christian
00:18:04.85\00:18:07.35
I should do the right
thing whatever that is.
00:18:07.38\00:18:11.15
I said, "Okay, does that
mean I need to tell the truth
00:18:11.19\00:18:13.32
when I go to court?
00:18:13.36\00:18:14.69
She said "Yes."
00:18:14.72\00:18:16.06
I said, "But lady, you
know how much time I'll get?"
00:18:16.09\00:18:18.66
And she says, "God
can take care of it."
00:18:18.69\00:18:21.83
Then I said, "Okay, I'm going
to trust you what you tell me."
00:18:21.86\00:18:24.93
So I go tell my lawyer, I said,
00:18:24.97\00:18:26.43
"Look, I'm not
going to plead guilty...
00:18:26.47\00:18:28.80
I'm going to go
plead not guilty anymore.
00:18:28.84\00:18:30.61
I'm going to plea guilty."
00:18:30.64\00:18:32.01
And my lawyer said
"You lost your mind?"
00:18:32.04\00:18:33.84
I said "No, I'm
going to plead guilty."
00:18:33.88\00:18:36.04
He says "All you got to
do is going in a courtroom,
00:18:36.08\00:18:38.65
plead not guilty, one
or two things will happen.
00:18:38.68\00:18:41.72
We'll get a good deal for you
or the judge will throw it out
00:18:41.75\00:18:45.42
because there's no
witness against you."
00:18:45.45\00:18:47.86
And I said, "No, no
I'm going to plead guilty."
00:18:47.89\00:18:50.33
I did it. I'm
going to plead guilty.
00:18:50.36\00:18:52.23
I go before the
judge, I plead guilty.
00:18:52.26\00:18:54.76
The judge said, "Young man,
00:18:54.80\00:18:56.77
I don't know
what's wrong with you."
00:18:56.80\00:18:58.13
He said, "If you were
here to walk in this courtroom
00:18:58.17\00:18:59.60
plead not guilty, I
would've thrown it out."
00:18:59.63\00:19:01.44
Mercy.
00:19:01.47\00:19:02.80
And so I said, "Well,
Your Honor, I am guilty."
00:19:02.84\00:19:04.77
He said, "Why
you're pleading guilty?"
00:19:04.81\00:19:06.14
I said, "I'm a Christian."
00:19:06.17\00:19:07.58
He said, "You're Christian now?"
00:19:07.61\00:19:08.98
I said, "Yes
Sir, I'm a Christian."
00:19:09.01\00:19:11.31
And he says, "Okay,
I accept your plea."
00:19:11.35\00:19:15.12
He said "I will
sentence you in a few months."
00:19:15.15\00:19:18.19
So I go back to the prison
00:19:18.22\00:19:20.26
and I just study,
study, study and decide
00:19:20.29\00:19:26.73
that I am going to
do the right thing,
00:19:26.76\00:19:29.30
no matter what happens.
00:19:29.33\00:19:30.67
And I tell God, "I'm
going to serve You in here
00:19:30.70\00:19:33.50
if I have to spend
the rest of my life,
00:19:33.54\00:19:35.10
I'm gonna serve You."
00:19:35.14\00:19:36.84
So we have now,
so there is this kid.
00:19:36.87\00:19:40.58
Everybody dies
around, he goes into the Navy.
00:19:40.61\00:19:44.21
Gets out, failed
marriage, three kids,
00:19:44.25\00:19:46.72
goes up to Philadelphia,
00:19:46.75\00:19:52.39
starts experimenting with drugs
00:19:52.42\00:19:53.96
to the extent that
there is a drug habit
00:19:53.99\00:19:55.56
that you're now supporting
by robbing people, banks,
00:19:55.59\00:19:58.99
so forth and so on.
00:19:59.03\00:20:00.63
One night, you don't know
00:20:00.66\00:20:02.00
because you've
already experienced
00:20:02.03\00:20:03.37
a couple of blackouts
00:20:03.40\00:20:04.73
when you wake
up in other cities,
00:20:04.77\00:20:06.10
one night and one
of those blackouts
00:20:06.13\00:20:08.00
you beat someone
literally to death,
00:20:08.04\00:20:12.11
go to jail, awaiting sentencing,
00:20:12.14\00:20:14.61
awaiting the
opportunity to make even a plea,
00:20:14.64\00:20:17.25
three months God intervened,
00:20:17.28\00:20:19.31
intersects with
your life at that moment,
00:20:19.35\00:20:20.95
you meet Sister Humphreys
00:20:20.98\00:20:23.02
and she begins teaching
you Daniel and Revelation,
00:20:23.05\00:20:25.99
you go to court, the
judge is saying to you,
00:20:26.02\00:20:29.79
"Man, I was going to
throw this thing out.
00:20:29.82\00:20:33.93
I was going to throw it
out, but you came in here.
00:20:33.96\00:20:36.03
I don't know what's gotten into?
00:20:36.06\00:20:37.40
You came in
here, you pled guilty.
00:20:37.43\00:20:38.77
I was going to throw it out.
00:20:38.80\00:20:40.14
Go, go and I'll
sentence you in a little while."
00:20:40.17\00:20:41.80
So take me back and I'm
sure that once you go back,
00:20:41.84\00:20:45.01
you're studying, take me
through the day you go back
00:20:45.04\00:20:47.64
in the sentence?
00:20:47.68\00:20:49.34
Well, when I go
back for sentencing,
00:20:49.38\00:20:52.08
the judge tells
me right off the bat,
00:20:52.11\00:20:54.02
he says "You know,
00:20:54.05\00:20:56.42
I'm going to sentence
you to 12 to 25 years.
00:20:56.45\00:21:00.16
And I said, "Okay, that's fine."
00:21:00.19\00:21:01.52
And he looked at me, he said,
"What do you mean that's fine?"
00:21:01.56\00:21:04.39
I said, "Because I told
God that whatever He decides
00:21:04.43\00:21:07.40
that's what I'll
do, and I'm okay with."
00:21:07.43\00:21:10.10
And the judge said, "Okay, fine.
00:21:10.13\00:21:12.37
Get him out. Get him
out of my courtroom."
00:21:12.40\00:21:15.00
So I'm back in
the prison waiting.
00:21:15.04\00:21:18.37
Did you ever regret that? No.
00:21:18.41\00:21:20.28
Never have. Never. Never have.
00:21:20.31\00:21:21.64
Even though you knew
00:21:21.68\00:21:23.01
that he was going
to throw the case out.
00:21:23.04\00:21:24.38
You didn't get back to yourself.
00:21:24.41\00:21:25.75
Now come on,
you could be honest.
00:21:25.78\00:21:27.12
I did not.
00:21:27.15\00:21:28.48
You didn't get back to
yourself and say, "Oh, man,
00:21:28.52\00:21:29.85
what was I thinking?
00:21:29.88\00:21:31.22
I could have been out of here."
00:21:31.25\00:21:32.59
I did not. I could
be back to the drugs.
00:21:32.62\00:21:33.96
I did not. I could
be back to the women.
00:21:33.99\00:21:35.32
No. I could be
back on the streets.
00:21:35.36\00:21:36.69
I was a
Christian by then. Mercy.
00:21:36.73\00:21:38.06
I was a Christian.
00:21:38.09\00:21:39.43
I'm determined and I'm going
to do what God wants me to do.
00:21:39.46\00:21:42.03
Right, right.
00:21:42.06\00:21:43.40
And I mean I had my whole
life I know what I wanted to do.
00:21:43.43\00:21:48.17
Now I'm going to
do what God wants.
00:21:48.20\00:21:49.54
And thus far how
much time did you serve?
00:21:49.57\00:21:51.24
I served 10 months.
00:21:51.27\00:21:53.17
Ten months up to the point,
00:21:53.21\00:21:54.98
up to the day
that you got sentenced,
00:21:55.01\00:21:56.34
you've served 10 months.
00:21:56.38\00:21:57.71
Yeah.
00:21:57.75\00:21:59.08
So then you go back to
your cell, what happened?
00:21:59.11\00:22:00.78
And everybody's
there ridiculing me
00:22:00.82\00:22:03.79
"Man, man, we
heard what happened.
00:22:03.82\00:22:05.69
You should have went
down there and told a lie."
00:22:05.72\00:22:08.82
And I said, "No,
I can't do that."
00:22:08.86\00:22:11.23
And keep in mind,
I had a reputation
00:22:11.26\00:22:14.66
that preceded
me into the prison.
00:22:14.70\00:22:16.90
So the guys there decided,
00:22:16.93\00:22:19.47
"Now, okay, he's
really a Christian.
00:22:19.50\00:22:21.80
We're going to make
our reputation of him.
00:22:21.84\00:22:23.57
We're going to mess him up now."
00:22:23.61\00:22:25.37
And one guy stepped to me
00:22:25.41\00:22:27.81
and I didn't know
what I was going to do.
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.65
I really had no idea.
00:22:30.68\00:22:32.28
But then another
inmate in a vein that said,
00:22:32.31\00:22:36.05
"Man, you don't want to that."
00:22:36.08\00:22:37.52
He said "Look,
he's a Christian now,
00:22:37.55\00:22:38.89
but I'm not."
00:22:38.92\00:22:40.26
Okay.
00:22:40.29\00:22:41.62
And so you bother
him, you're bothering me.
00:22:41.66\00:22:43.29
Right.
00:22:43.32\00:22:44.66
And so God actually had
somebody there to intervene.
00:22:44.69\00:22:48.13
Right.
00:22:48.16\00:22:49.50
But a month later the judge...
00:22:49.53\00:22:52.67
I'm ready to go to the big house
00:22:52.70\00:22:55.17
waiting to be transferred.
00:22:55.20\00:22:56.87
A month later, the judge,
00:22:56.91\00:22:58.81
well, the officer
wakes me up and says,
00:22:58.84\00:23:03.58
"Judge wants to see you."
00:23:03.61\00:23:05.25
Okay. The same judge?
00:23:05.28\00:23:06.61
The same judge.
What does the judge want?
00:23:06.65\00:23:08.85
You know, I don't
know, but he wants to see me.
00:23:08.88\00:23:11.29
So I go back down to the court.
00:23:11.32\00:23:13.96
Judge James R.
Cavanaugh, he's dead.
00:23:13.99\00:23:17.46
They'll forget him though.
00:23:17.49\00:23:18.93
He tells me in open courtroom,
00:23:18.96\00:23:21.40
he says, "Look, I had a dream.
00:23:21.43\00:23:27.14
And I was told that
I'm to cut you loose.
00:23:27.17\00:23:29.54
Mercy.
00:23:29.57\00:23:30.91
So I'm going to
vacate my sentence
00:23:30.94\00:23:33.07
as soon as you to time served.
00:23:33.11\00:23:35.64
So 11 months on a
12 year to 25 years
00:23:35.68\00:23:40.05
and you do 11 months?
00:23:40.08\00:23:41.42
Only 11. Because of a dream?
00:23:41.45\00:23:42.78
Because of dream.
00:23:42.82\00:23:44.15
So now I want a
wonderful back story,
00:23:44.19\00:23:47.12
wonderful back story,
00:23:47.16\00:23:48.49
you get out become
Seventh-day Adventist?
00:23:48.52\00:23:52.76
I get out.
00:23:52.79\00:23:54.80
Actually went to
shacking up with a woman.
00:23:54.83\00:23:58.23
Okay.
00:23:58.27\00:23:59.60
And Mom Humphrey is
now giving us Bible study.
00:23:59.63\00:24:04.37
And she doesn't say
anything about the shacking up
00:24:04.41\00:24:07.31
or she's giving us Bible study
as if we're husband and wife.
00:24:07.34\00:24:11.18
And she invites us to
church, we go to church.
00:24:11.21\00:24:14.58
One Sabbath morning
she calls me and says,
00:24:14.62\00:24:20.79
"Are you coming
to church today?"
00:24:20.82\00:24:22.16
Yes, but the young
lady I was living with,
00:24:22.19\00:24:25.29
she says "I
don't feel well today."
00:24:25.33\00:24:27.46
Okay, so I said "Okay,
I'm going to church now,
00:24:27.50\00:24:29.53
I'll be back."
00:24:29.56\00:24:30.90
I go to church,
north Philadelphia church
00:24:30.93\00:24:33.67
and Al Cantrell
Jr., he's dead now.
00:24:33.70\00:24:37.04
He was preaching that day.
00:24:37.07\00:24:38.41
And the title of his sermon
00:24:38.44\00:24:39.77
was shacking,
hacking and breaking up.
00:24:39.81\00:24:41.14
Never forget
it, never forget it.
00:24:41.18\00:24:42.98
When he finished that sermon,
00:24:43.01\00:24:44.35
I went home and started to pack.
00:24:44.38\00:24:45.71
Okay.
00:24:45.75\00:24:47.08
So eventually, the Lord
leads you to the Adventist.
00:24:47.12\00:24:51.19
I want you to tell us about
00:24:51.22\00:24:52.69
because we're
running out of time
00:24:52.72\00:24:54.06
and I really want to get in
00:24:54.09\00:24:55.79
when you get
involved in prison ministry.
00:24:55.82\00:24:59.09
Now you've served in
a number of capacities
00:24:59.13\00:25:00.90
in the Adventist Church,
00:25:00.93\00:25:02.26
but then you get to a point
00:25:02.30\00:25:03.63
where you're now
serving in prison ministries.
00:25:03.67\00:25:05.00
I'll ask for
the last 10-15 years
00:25:05.03\00:25:07.87
as quickly as you
possibly can the track
00:25:07.90\00:25:10.81
that God has had you?
00:25:10.84\00:25:12.54
Well, I asked Mom Humphrey,
00:25:12.57\00:25:15.18
"Why didn't the
Seventh-day Adventists
00:25:15.21\00:25:16.54
have an
organized prison ministry?"
00:25:16.58\00:25:18.58
Because she was coming in
with non-denominational group
00:25:18.61\00:25:21.58
and she says "I don't
know, why don't you start one?"
00:25:21.62\00:25:24.75
And so I did, I
started in Philadelphia,
00:25:24.79\00:25:26.82
organized the Philadelphia
00:25:26.86\00:25:28.19
Seventh-day
Adventist prison ministry.
00:25:28.22\00:25:30.19
And ultimately the
Allegheny East Conference,
00:25:30.23\00:25:32.69
Prison Ministry Federation,
00:25:32.73\00:25:34.46
and then ultimately the
North American Divisions
00:25:34.50\00:25:38.03
Association of
Adventists Prison Ministries
00:25:38.07\00:25:41.20
which ultimately
became the alliance
00:25:41.24\00:25:43.17
of prison ministry
organizations and affiliates,
00:25:43.20\00:25:45.61
an international
organization made up of
00:25:45.64\00:25:47.84
Seventh-day Adventists
Prison Ministry Organization.
00:25:47.88\00:25:50.28
So what does Daniel
McManus do now a day?
00:25:50.31\00:25:53.72
These days I am
the vice president
00:25:53.75\00:25:56.42
of that organization.
00:25:56.45\00:25:58.12
When it was with the
North American Division,
00:25:58.15\00:26:00.52
I was the
president for 10 years.
00:26:00.56\00:26:02.92
And I also served
during that time period
00:26:02.96\00:26:05.46
for three of those years
as a prison ministry trainer
00:26:05.49\00:26:08.46
and consultant for the
North American Division.
00:26:08.50\00:26:11.63
And the day I work
for the Salvation Army
00:26:11.67\00:26:15.77
as the director of
their homeless ministry,
00:26:15.80\00:26:18.81
it's called the
Director of Shelter Service,
00:26:18.84\00:26:21.78
but it's really a
homeless ministry.
00:26:21.81\00:26:23.71
I'm also a volunteer chaplain
00:26:23.75\00:26:25.61
with the Virginia
Correctional Center for Women.
00:26:25.65\00:26:27.88
So here God intersects
00:26:27.92\00:26:33.49
and preserves you
00:26:33.52\00:26:35.22
in the proverbial lion.
00:26:35.26\00:26:37.83
And you are there, it
seems as we look from hindsight,
00:26:37.86\00:26:40.36
it seems like you were there
specifically to meet Jesus.
00:26:40.40\00:26:45.63
Yes.
00:26:45.67\00:26:47.00
After meeting Jesus,
00:26:47.04\00:26:48.37
He now takes you
out of the lions den
00:26:48.40\00:26:52.54
and he moves you,
I mean He moves you
00:26:52.57\00:26:54.74
almost at records
speeds to where now,
00:26:54.78\00:26:57.15
you are speaking
all over the world,
00:26:57.18\00:26:59.38
you are training individuals
on how to go into prisons,
00:26:59.41\00:27:03.69
on how to do prison ministries,
you're not only national
00:27:03.72\00:27:08.36
but you're international.
00:27:08.39\00:27:09.86
And you're not only doing this
00:27:09.89\00:27:12.16
for the Seventh-day
Adventist Organization,
00:27:12.19\00:27:14.03
you're also in administration
at the Salvation Army?
00:27:14.06\00:27:18.63
Right.
00:27:18.67\00:27:21.97
Could you have when in Vietnam,
00:27:22.00\00:27:26.31
when in Philadelphia
ever seen yourself here?
00:27:26.34\00:27:28.78
No, no.
00:27:28.81\00:27:31.15
Actually what happened,
00:27:31.18\00:27:32.51
I see it as the
Lord restored the years
00:27:32.55\00:27:34.25
the locus of Vietnam
as just as the Bible says.
00:27:34.28\00:27:37.39
And my favorite
text is Psalms 40:1-3,
00:27:37.42\00:27:42.32
"I waited
patiently for the Lord,
00:27:42.36\00:27:43.76
and he inclined unto
me, and heard my cry.
00:27:43.79\00:27:45.76
He brought me up
out of a horrible pit,
00:27:45.79\00:27:47.76
placed my feet on a rock
and established my goals.
00:27:47.80\00:27:50.53
He had put a new
song in my mouth,
00:27:50.57\00:27:52.00
even praised to our God."
00:27:52.03\00:27:53.80
So God has done
some wonderful things.
00:27:53.84\00:27:58.77
And I want to just say
thank you for being with us,
00:27:58.81\00:28:02.34
Elder McManus, this has
been an incredible illustration
00:28:02.38\00:28:07.15
of what this show was all about,
00:28:07.18\00:28:09.08
The New Journey
where God can take.
00:28:09.12\00:28:12.55
Even today, it
wasn't just happening
00:28:12.59\00:28:14.76
in the Old Testament times,
00:28:14.79\00:28:16.12
it's happening even today
00:28:16.16\00:28:17.66
where he takes
Daniel if you will,
00:28:17.69\00:28:20.33
from pits and
from the den of lions
00:28:20.36\00:28:23.60
and moves them into a place
00:28:23.63\00:28:26.03
where they can do
great things for Him
00:28:26.07\00:28:29.20
in places that they
never saw themselves.
00:28:29.24\00:28:31.37
I want to thank
you for being with us.
00:28:31.41\00:28:33.17
It has been a fantastic story.
00:28:33.21\00:28:35.08
It has been a fantastic journey
00:28:35.11\00:28:36.98
and we will
continue to pray for you
00:28:37.01\00:28:39.25
as you continue on this
segment of your new journey.
00:28:39.28\00:28:42.78
Brothers and
sisters, if you're watching,
00:28:42.82\00:28:44.59
I'm sure that
you've been blessed
00:28:44.62\00:28:45.95
in the same way we were blessed.
00:28:45.99\00:28:47.32
Thank you for joining
us on The New Journey.
00:28:47.36\00:28:50.46
God bless you.
00:28:50.49\00:28:51.83