The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to The New Journey,
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a program about real life people
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with real life testimonies
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doing real life
ministry for Jesus Christ.
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I'm your host,
Pastor Marquis Johns.
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Join us on The New Journey.
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We've all sang the
song 'we are soldiers'.
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On today's show,
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we have someone who
wasn't a soldier in the army
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but rather in the marines.
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And having experienced so much,
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he has now given his
life for the last 30 years
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to going into the prisons
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and dealing with
and helping those
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who are soldiers behind bars.
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I like to welcome to
the show, Keith Johnson.
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How are you doing?
It's pleasure, Marquis.
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Hey, good, good, good.
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So now here's I wanna start from
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and I'm gonna just
jump right into it.
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Tell us first a little
bit about where you're from,
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where grew up at,
about your home life,
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things like that?
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I grew up in Chicago,
a part of a broken home.
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My mother was
married three times.
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We thought four but
one wasn't marriage.
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And my sisters and
my siblings were abused,
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you know, sexually.
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My mother was beat
up by my step fathers.
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So you just have
all this rage inside
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trying to put up
with the dysfunction.
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Yet they send you to church.
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And so at five years
old, I accepted Jesus
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because He was a kindred spirit.
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I'm getting beat up by
those who supposed to love me.
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He's getting beaten up by
those who supposed to love him.
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Right.
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And you just wish
there was more of Jesus,
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you know, walking around.
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Right, I wanna
just real quick...
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And you said that your sisters
experiencing sexual abuse.
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Was this with neighbors,
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people that they
were left with or who?
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Well, my elder sister
got raped in a neighborhood
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but she never told me
'cause she knew I'd kill him.
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And so my little
sister was getting incested
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by stepfather
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while he was
incesting my little brother.
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Mercy.
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And so, between the
alcohol and police coming in,
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it's all the
insanity, you just wanna die.
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Right. You know,
you just wanna give up.
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So in my case at 19,
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I was able to escape
and go in the Marine.
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Okay.
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So, from almost birth,
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mom goes through a
couple of marriages.
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A few, we're not
sure about one of those.
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And you are just a rageaholic.
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You're just raging.
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And the first opportunity
that you get to escape
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is not to some
nice collegiate campus
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but instead to
the armed services,
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the armed forces.
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And you didn't go to the
army, you went to the Marines.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong,
Marines are the crazy ones.
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Those are the killers.
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So tell me why did
you choose the Marines,
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let's say over
something like the army
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or even depending on who
you're talking to the Navy?
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What made you, was it the rage?
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What made you choose the Marines
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over let's say the army or navy?
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Well, my dad's World War
II in Korea retired Navy.
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But they were
divorced when I was three.
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So I saw my father
maybe 10 times in my life
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after they divorced.
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And so my uncle and my gran,
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they took me in
from three to six.
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So I was raised with
them. And I experienced normal.
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But when my mom remarried,
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that's when the
insanity came into my life.
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And my mother, in the
beginning with my step father,
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my first step father
send me to a parochial school.
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And my sister, we were
in the basement of church.
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Unpack parochial for
those who maybe watching
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and who don't
know what that means.
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It was a Christian,
you know, private school.
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We've 42 kids, 8
grades, 1 teacher.
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He had the whole
school, 2 grade levels ahead.
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And then we had to
move, go into a public school.
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Well, I went from
experiencing education.
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So like the first
three words I learned
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basically in public school
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was detention,
suspension and, expulsion.
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Mercy.
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Going from
education to indoctrination
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and I didn't do well
with authority on that one.
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Okay. But I managed to graduate.
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Although I was an athlete,
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you had to have
grades in order to play.
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Because sports
was my drug of choice.
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Okay.
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And then before
I went to Marines,
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in a football tackle I
crushed the vertebrae in my neck
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and the Lord let me walk.
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Wow.
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That's the first
time I heard his voice.
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And I throw my trophies away.
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When I could walk again
'cause I had to wear a collar,
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coaches wouldn't recruit
me, wouldn't come to see me.
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So when I threw
my trophies away,
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I realized I was
addicted to those.
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Wow! And then I felt free.
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At 19, you
realize you're addicted.
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True.
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And, it's almost like
you were addicted to winning.
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Winning. The winning.
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And so again, I want to
jettison kind of get us to,
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so here you are at 19,
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just thrown away
all your trophies.
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What makes you
again choose the Marines
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over some of the
other armed services?
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I always liked the uniforms.
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Okay. My dad doesn't like them.
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He says the Marines
took a pretty good boy
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and ruined him, you
know, being in navy.
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But I was sharing,
you know, with my brother,
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you know, Andy hear that
my grandmother read cards,
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and the Ouija boards,
and then we had visitors,
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there was spiritual
visitors in the house.
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Okay, okay.
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Again, when you
say these type of terms
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for our studio
audience as well as for those
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who are watching online.
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And I like to paint the picture
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and I like to
bring those watching
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and the viewers along with us.
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So here's this
kid, three years of age,
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mom, dad divorced.
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She goes through a
series of marriages,
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incest, abuse,
sexual, physical, emotional.
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And then, you find an
outlet for your rage in sports.
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You're winning, you're
doing a lot of winning,
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getting a lot of trophies.
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Something clicks in your head.
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You realize, "Hey,
this is my addiction.
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This is what I'm into."
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And you find out
somewhere in between
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then and that point
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that your
grandmother is into sances
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and Ouija boards
and things like that.
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Tell us about what
that is just briefly
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and how that affected you at 19?
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Yeah.
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Well, going back
to three years old,
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I'm living with my grandmother.
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And I'm sleeping on the couch
and she's in the dining room,
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you know, sleeping and
my uncle is in the bedroom
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'cause her
bedroom is full of dolls.
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She has a doll collection.
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But I hear the footsteps going
across the floor pulling chains
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and the room gets cold.
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And I go, "Grandma,
someone's in the house."
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And she goes,
"It's just a person
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walking through
paying for their sins.
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You have a guardian angel
and nothing will hurt you.
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Just go to sleep."
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Well, that locked on.
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I just run over
and went to sleep.
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So you have these
weird things happen.
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My grandmother would
say, we're gonna have a pup.
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My dogs have
puppies and so we would bet
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on who's gonna be...
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help get the
money for the puppies.
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So I bet seven,
my favorite number.
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And so she says, "Eight,"
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only she goes five
female, three male,
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a male is gonna die.
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But here comes the puppies,
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five female, three
male, the runt dies.
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Mercy.
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You know, I want
to get the seven,
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make with the
money in and she goes,
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"Not too fast, not done yet."
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Here comes, and so I
deploy with the swither
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in my whole life.
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Reading coffee
grounds and reading cards.
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And you're going
not of the Bible,
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not of the
Bible, not of the Bible.
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Now you say not of the Bible,
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what basis did you have
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for knowing that
this wasn't biblical?
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Because if
you're experiencing...
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And for those who are
viewing, let's just be real.
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We know now what
those things are and were.
00:08:03.48\00:08:07.18
But you know,
you're experiencing
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hearing chains and all,
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and she's reading the
coffee beans and cards.
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And what did you
have that let you know
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that this wasn't
real or had you come
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to that
understanding at this point?
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Well, in those three
years in the parochial school,
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they were making us
memorize all these Bible verses
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and stuff like that.
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And once you read,
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"Yea though I
walk through the valley
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of the shadow of
death, I fear no evil,"
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my mother thought I
was a rebellious child.
00:08:32.67\00:08:34.28
Mercy.
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I was just being a Shadrach,
Meshach and Abednego, you know.
00:08:35.68\00:08:39.85
So my mother was
a stickler for truth
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and so you want truth.
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Right.
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And so like at 13 years old,
00:08:45.85\00:08:47.19
I'm out there
witnessing to my Jewish friends.
00:08:47.22\00:08:49.96
And I ask them, why they
went to church on the wrong day.
00:08:49.99\00:08:52.13
And so they told
me about the Sabbath.
00:08:52.16\00:08:54.20
So I had to go
back to my pastors
00:08:54.23\00:08:56.80
and confront
them on the Sabbath,
00:08:56.83\00:08:59.40
and they told me about
the Seventh-day Adventists,
00:08:59.43\00:09:01.07
like that would
sweep me under the rug.
00:09:01.10\00:09:02.44
And this is all
before 19? All before 19.
00:09:02.47\00:09:03.81
Okay.
00:09:03.84\00:09:05.17
Just, I mean, it's so intense
00:09:05.21\00:09:08.01
what God was doing in my
life despite the carnage.
00:09:08.04\00:09:12.55
But then my grandmother,
00:09:12.58\00:09:14.75
at 19 now, I'm gonna jump ahead,
00:09:14.78\00:09:16.52
she says, "Let me
read your coffee ground."
00:09:16.55\00:09:20.02
I don't even like coffee.
00:09:20.06\00:09:22.02
You can't put enough
cream and sugar in it.
00:09:22.06\00:09:24.13
You know,
because it tastes rancid,
00:09:24.16\00:09:26.59
it smells rancid.
00:09:26.63\00:09:27.96
You know, but I had to drink
it then you got to hold the cup
00:09:28.00\00:09:29.93
over the saucer,
00:09:29.96\00:09:31.30
let the coffee grounds run down.
00:09:31.33\00:09:33.37
And then, you
know, she reads it,
00:09:33.40\00:09:34.74
I'm going but I'm telling her.
00:09:34.77\00:09:36.34
I don't believe in it, you know.
00:09:36.37\00:09:38.84
But you're my gran, you know.
00:09:38.87\00:09:41.34
So she goes.
00:09:41.38\00:09:44.01
I see you going into service.
00:09:44.05\00:09:45.65
Well, I'm in college, I'm
playing baseball, you know.
00:09:45.68\00:09:48.35
I said, "I ain't
going into service."
00:09:48.38\00:09:50.85
And she goes, "I see
you going into service."
00:09:50.89\00:09:53.46
And then she sits
there and she goes,
00:09:53.49\00:09:55.86
"I see you as a clown."
00:09:55.89\00:09:57.23
And I go, "I've
always been a class clown.
00:09:57.26\00:10:00.40
What's that, you know.
00:10:00.43\00:10:02.03
"I see you as a
clown," and she says,
00:10:02.06\00:10:03.53
"I see you
moving to California."
00:10:03.57\00:10:06.00
"I'm not going to California,
00:10:06.03\00:10:07.44
we don't even know
anybody in California."
00:10:07.47\00:10:09.87
Then she says, "I see
you're finding the Big J."
00:10:09.90\00:10:14.31
"What's the Big J?"
00:10:14.34\00:10:15.74
Here goes the Big J
which turned out to be Christ,
00:10:15.78\00:10:19.21
you know, He
really grabbed me again.
00:10:19.25\00:10:22.72
So my stepfather...
00:10:22.75\00:10:24.09
My grandmother goes, "If
you don't go into service,
00:10:24.12\00:10:27.29
I'll buy you a new car."
00:10:27.32\00:10:30.46
I go, "You buy me a new car?"
00:10:30.49\00:10:32.53
"If you promise not
to go into service,"
00:10:32.56\00:10:34.83
'cause she read this, you know.
00:10:34.86\00:10:37.27
And her stuff
happened so she said.
00:10:37.30\00:10:40.74
I go, "You buy me a
1967, Chevelle Super Sport 396,
00:10:40.77\00:10:45.14
marina blue with
a black panel top
00:10:45.17\00:10:47.08
in a 8-track, 4-speed?"
00:10:47.11\00:10:48.44
Oh, there's a boy
who knows what he wants.
00:10:48.48\00:10:50.35
Right.
00:10:50.38\00:10:51.71
So she writes me a $1500
check and she goes, "Order it.
00:10:51.75\00:10:56.79
I'll pay the rest
when it comes in."
00:10:56.82\00:10:59.35
I go home, I get my
stepfather, he takes me,
00:10:59.39\00:11:01.69
we ordered the car.
00:11:01.72\00:11:03.39
And he's an alcoholic
00:11:03.43\00:11:04.76
but he's a president of
the steelworkers, you know.
00:11:04.79\00:11:07.03
So because I'm
only 19, he has to sign.
00:11:07.06\00:11:10.90
So on the way home,
00:11:10.93\00:11:12.27
he's already taken
possession of my car.
00:11:12.30\00:11:16.10
So he says to me, "You know,
if you act up, you're grounded.
00:11:16.14\00:11:19.94
And you can't use the car."
00:11:19.97\00:11:21.88
Wow.
00:11:21.91\00:11:23.35
And I said, "It's my car.
00:11:23.38\00:11:26.08
Grandma is buying me my car."
00:11:26.11\00:11:28.35
He says, "But I signed for it."
00:11:28.38\00:11:30.69
He says, "I'll take it anyway."
00:11:30.72\00:11:33.15
He says, "I've reported stolen."
00:11:33.19\00:11:35.72
Wow!
00:11:35.76\00:11:37.09
"Oh, really!"
00:11:37.13\00:11:38.46
That was the
end of conversation.
00:11:38.49\00:11:39.83
I made up my mind.
00:11:39.86\00:11:41.33
As soon as he
brings me back home,
00:11:41.36\00:11:42.70
we got the car
and walk all the way
00:11:42.73\00:11:44.07
back to the dealership.
00:11:44.10\00:11:45.73
I get the $1500, you know,
00:11:45.77\00:11:48.10
I go to my buddy in the morning,
00:11:48.14\00:11:49.47
I give check back to my grandma.
00:11:49.50\00:11:51.01
And I go, "Will you take me
00:11:51.04\00:11:52.54
to Madison &
Central in Chicago?"
00:11:52.57\00:11:55.41
He goes, "Why?"
00:11:55.44\00:11:56.78
I say, "Will you take
me or I have to walk?"
00:11:56.81\00:11:59.35
He goes, "Why?" I
said, "Will you take me?"
00:11:59.38\00:12:01.08
He goes,
"Yeah." He drops me off.
00:12:01.12\00:12:02.88
He goes, "What are you
doing?" I said, "Thanks."
00:12:02.92\00:12:05.69
I go to recruiters,
signed up for three years,
00:12:05.72\00:12:07.86
headed for Vietnam.
00:12:07.89\00:12:09.22
Wow.
00:12:09.26\00:12:10.59
Because I made up my
mind that if I gotta die,
00:12:10.63\00:12:15.90
I'm dying at the
hands of an assumed enemy
00:12:15.93\00:12:18.13
not the hands of my parents.
00:12:18.17\00:12:19.50
Mercy.
00:12:19.53\00:12:20.87
So what we have here
is we have a young man
00:12:20.90\00:12:22.57
who has had some
run-ins with the Big J
00:12:22.60\00:12:26.34
is a little more informed
than the nominal Christian.
00:12:26.37\00:12:29.81
But based on the
things that he was seeing
00:12:29.84\00:12:32.08
from ages three and 19,
00:12:32.11\00:12:35.95
he made a decision that
00:12:35.98\00:12:38.22
it would be better to
be thousands of miles away
00:12:38.25\00:12:41.62
from what he assumed was family
00:12:41.66\00:12:44.39
and forging ahead quite
possibly with a new family.
00:12:44.43\00:12:47.33
So tell us about how
long were you in the Marines?
00:12:47.36\00:12:49.73
Three years but
the bad side of me
00:12:49.76\00:12:52.10
going in the
Marines was my stepfather,
00:12:52.13\00:12:54.50
now he had opened
seizing on my siblings.
00:12:54.54\00:12:56.60
Mercy, mercy, mercy.
00:12:56.64\00:12:59.67
So there is a...
00:12:59.71\00:13:01.04
There's a downside. Oh, man.
00:13:01.08\00:13:02.41
So tell us about, again,
00:13:02.44\00:13:03.78
how long were
you in the Marines?
00:13:03.81\00:13:05.15
Thousand, eighty nine days.
00:13:05.18\00:13:06.51
Okay.
00:13:09.72\00:13:11.05
Three years, ten
months, and four days.
00:13:11.09\00:13:12.42
But who counts
when you're having fun.
00:13:12.45\00:13:13.79
Right. Right.
00:13:13.82\00:13:15.16
So tell us about
your time in the Marines?
00:13:15.19\00:13:16.52
Because again, most
of us those are taught
00:13:16.56\00:13:20.23
or those who have
watched the movies,
00:13:20.26\00:13:22.16
the Marines are the killers,
00:13:22.20\00:13:23.53
the Marines are
the crazy people.
00:13:23.57\00:13:26.53
I go in boot camp
and my buddy said,
00:13:26.57\00:13:28.97
"I'll be going before
him," so I know what's coming.
00:13:29.00\00:13:31.47
So I go and hide in
those Gomer Pyle quonset huts
00:13:31.51\00:13:33.78
out there in San
Diego in the back
00:13:33.81\00:13:36.08
so they won't know my
name, it's like a football camp.
00:13:36.11\00:13:38.31
I'm gonna go in
as fast as I can.
00:13:38.35\00:13:41.28
Well, that first night,
the platoon commander comes in
00:13:41.32\00:13:43.08
and makes me force squad leader
00:13:43.12\00:13:44.45
so that ruins my plans
so I'm back in the front
00:13:44.49\00:13:47.72
and I have to be the
babysitter for 20 guys.
00:13:47.76\00:13:51.09
And so all the
other squad leaders
00:13:51.13\00:13:54.33
are beating their
guys down and I'm...
00:13:54.36\00:13:56.50
The last thing I want
to do is beat people down
00:13:56.53\00:13:57.93
because I got beat
down my whole life.
00:13:57.97\00:13:59.87
So I says,
"Okay, I'm not gonna use
00:13:59.90\00:14:01.40
force, fear, intimidation,
manipulation on my guys,
00:14:01.44\00:14:03.71
I'm a ball player.
00:14:03.74\00:14:05.07
I want to sort it together."
00:14:05.11\00:14:07.44
So we got to, you know,
I have my whole squad and,
00:14:07.48\00:14:10.51
you know, at
night, I get everybody up.
00:14:10.55\00:14:12.31
And then we have bunkie,
00:14:12.35\00:14:13.68
you have to help
you with push-ups,
00:14:13.72\00:14:15.05
sit-ups, those kind of stuff.
00:14:15.08\00:14:16.69
Tear your rifle apart and
put it together in the dark
00:14:16.72\00:14:18.89
and name your general orders.
00:14:18.92\00:14:21.12
And then we had three brothers,
all brothers from Chicago.
00:14:21.16\00:14:24.73
And we had Boone
who had this baby face
00:14:24.76\00:14:26.49
and we had Wallace and Hill.
00:14:26.53\00:14:27.86
And Hill sang bass, and
that Wallace did harmony.
00:14:27.90\00:14:31.57
After we finished, they
get up on the foot lockers
00:14:31.60\00:14:34.14
in the back and we hit.
00:14:34.17\00:14:35.50
They have their pen lights.
00:14:35.54\00:14:36.87
And we hit them
with our pen lights
00:14:36.91\00:14:38.24
as we're getting in Iraq.
00:14:38.27\00:14:39.61
And they would sing
all the more talent stuff,
00:14:39.64\00:14:41.28
you know, in the '60s.
00:14:41.31\00:14:42.64
They'll be
going, "I got sunshine."
00:14:42.68\00:14:46.78
Right.
00:14:46.82\00:14:48.15
And so we're naming the
songs, play stand by me.
00:14:48.18\00:14:50.32
And like every song is tied
to went back homeowner girls.
00:14:50.35\00:14:53.86
So we're crying in the dark.
00:14:53.89\00:14:56.12
But we get great
sleep and we get sound sleep
00:14:56.16\00:14:58.03
but we're becoming a family.
00:14:58.06\00:14:59.39
Right.
00:14:59.43\00:15:00.76
And then all the guys
want to come in our squad
00:15:00.80\00:15:02.13
because we're the safe squad.
00:15:02.16\00:15:03.50
Right.
00:15:03.53\00:15:04.87
So I wanna begin to kind
of jump around a little bit.
00:15:04.90\00:15:07.57
So two and a half
years in the Marines,
00:15:07.60\00:15:10.97
did you ever see any action?
00:15:11.01\00:15:12.57
No, I was in a
naval security group.
00:15:12.61\00:15:13.94
Naval security group.
00:15:13.98\00:15:15.31
Diplomatic passports...
00:15:15.34\00:15:16.68
Okay.
00:15:16.71\00:15:18.05
So then you leave the Marines,
00:15:18.08\00:15:19.85
honorably
discharged, how does that work?
00:15:19.88\00:15:21.65
Okay, honorably discharged.
00:15:21.68\00:15:23.08
And so tell us
about, real quick,
00:15:23.12\00:15:25.15
I wanna begin to
transition into your meeting
00:15:25.19\00:15:29.89
and cultivating your
relationship with Christ.
00:15:29.92\00:15:31.79
So tell us a little bit
about that fresh out of Marines,
00:15:31.83\00:15:33.96
22 years of age.
00:15:34.00\00:15:35.33
Just got married.
00:15:35.36\00:15:36.80
At 22? At 22.
00:15:36.83\00:15:38.17
Okay. My
sister's best girlfriend.
00:15:38.20\00:15:42.00
Well, later she gets pregnant,
turns out to be not mine.
00:15:42.04\00:15:45.44
Mercy.
00:15:45.47\00:15:46.81
You know, I'm carrying her up,
00:15:46.84\00:15:48.18
you know, up and
down two flights of stairs
00:15:48.21\00:15:49.54
so she doesn't miscarry.
00:15:49.58\00:15:50.91
She miscarries and I find
out that is finally not mine
00:15:50.95\00:15:54.52
after she miscarries.
00:15:54.55\00:15:55.88
And then I want to kill the guy,
00:15:55.92\00:15:57.59
you know, but to betrayal...
00:15:57.62\00:16:01.82
God didn't let me do it.
00:16:01.86\00:16:03.39
But then we end up
moving to California.
00:16:03.43\00:16:05.99
I get remarried, you know,
00:16:06.03\00:16:07.36
and have two sons
and my ex divorces me.
00:16:07.40\00:16:09.86
And so then I become an
Advent right then and there.
00:16:09.90\00:16:14.87
On the spot.
00:16:14.90\00:16:16.24
At 32. At 32.
00:16:16.27\00:16:19.87
So for 10 years
between 22 and 32,
00:16:19.91\00:16:23.45
you're dabbling
in some stuff here.
00:16:23.48\00:16:25.71
I mean, you kind of
got a Marine's mentality.
00:16:25.75\00:16:29.92
I graduated in '79.
00:16:29.95\00:16:31.49
Okay, still a rageaholic?
00:16:31.52\00:16:33.22
I call it a
hateaholic but rageaholic...
00:16:33.25\00:16:35.56
Rageaholic, hateaholic...
00:16:35.59\00:16:36.93
Same, same. Yeah.
00:16:36.96\00:16:38.29
And so, you meet a young
lady, two sons, get divorced.
00:16:38.33\00:16:42.60
And now, you are
really crying out for Christ.
00:16:42.63\00:16:46.47
32 years of age, tell us
about what's going on there?
00:16:46.50\00:16:50.61
Well, you know, I
heard about the Adventists
00:16:50.64\00:16:53.07
and then I, you know...
00:16:53.11\00:16:54.44
Well, in boot camp, they
came out on Friday night,
00:16:54.48\00:16:55.81
and they said,
00:16:55.84\00:16:57.18
"Are there any Jews or
Seventh-day Adventists?"
00:16:57.21\00:16:58.55
So I realized my pastor
was sweeping me under the rug.
00:16:58.58\00:17:01.18
And then, but my sons were born.
00:17:01.22\00:17:02.55
They take them from Redlands
and rush them to Loma Linda
00:17:02.58\00:17:04.72
intensive care.
00:17:04.75\00:17:06.09
Right.
00:17:06.12\00:17:07.46
So that's my first encounter,
00:17:07.49\00:17:08.82
you know, with
Adventists in prayer.
00:17:08.86\00:17:10.29
And then my ex,
you know, divorced me
00:17:10.33\00:17:12.79
and hides my sons and moves off.
00:17:12.83\00:17:14.16
They ship back to
Chicago and then on to Phoenix
00:17:14.20\00:17:16.77
where she hid my sons.
00:17:16.80\00:17:19.03
So then I said, "Okay, Lord.
00:17:19.07\00:17:21.87
I follow you
wherever you lead me."
00:17:21.90\00:17:23.97
I just give it to him.
00:17:24.01\00:17:26.94
And I just graduated, a
gas company where I worked,
00:17:26.98\00:17:29.44
they put me on
disability, I was even disabled.
00:17:29.48\00:17:31.55
So that's when
the divorce occurred,
00:17:31.58\00:17:33.68
you know, it was...
00:17:33.72\00:17:35.92
So I said, "Okay,
Lord, here's my sons,
00:17:35.95\00:17:38.52
here's my Corvette,
here's my house and my pool,
00:17:38.55\00:17:41.12
and all this stuff.
00:17:41.16\00:17:42.49
I follow truth
wherever you lead."
00:17:42.52\00:17:44.69
And so I get baptized.
00:17:44.73\00:17:47.26
And then I saw,
there's a bulletin.
00:17:47.30\00:17:49.56
And it says, "Prison ministry."
00:17:49.60\00:17:53.07
I said, "Well, if I got caught,
00:17:53.10\00:17:54.44
I sure want
someone to visit me."
00:17:54.47\00:17:55.80
So it's the
golden rule in action.
00:17:55.84\00:17:58.61
So I sign up and I become
00:17:58.64\00:18:01.28
the Quiet Hour prison ministries
00:18:01.31\00:18:02.78
director for six years.
00:18:02.81\00:18:04.15
But at the same time, when
I graduated from Cal State,
00:18:04.18\00:18:06.51
they show me these six
levels of moral development.
00:18:06.55\00:18:08.95
You can't skip steps,
00:18:08.98\00:18:10.32
you can't get through
without being brought.
00:18:10.35\00:18:12.12
Everyone starts out
basically a legalist
00:18:12.15\00:18:15.06
which is not so much
earning your way to heaven
00:18:15.09\00:18:17.69
but there's no
mercy in the computer.
00:18:17.73\00:18:20.53
So the more I
looked at agape love
00:18:20.56\00:18:23.30
in the Love Chapter,
00:18:23.33\00:18:24.87
I sit there and
I say, "No wonder,
00:18:24.90\00:18:29.44
you know, I'm a hateaholic."
00:18:29.47\00:18:32.71
So then that says, "I need
you to forgive your stepfather."
00:18:32.74\00:18:38.98
So that's a
four hour discussion.
00:18:39.01\00:18:42.12
You know, because I'm going...
00:18:42.15\00:18:44.09
He says, you know,
"Pray for their salvation."
00:18:44.12\00:18:46.32
I'm going, "I don't
want them in heaven."
00:18:46.35\00:18:48.49
Mercy.
00:18:48.52\00:18:49.86
He said, "Well,
there's a good chance,
00:18:49.89\00:18:51.23
you won't be there either."
00:18:51.26\00:18:54.10
So then he shows
me that my stepfather,
00:18:54.13\00:18:55.96
the one that beat my
mom, so she lost an eye,
00:18:56.00\00:18:58.00
he was an orphan
and he was abused.
00:18:58.03\00:18:59.53
So then you can have compassion.
00:18:59.57\00:19:02.47
So then I could forgive him.
00:19:02.50\00:19:05.04
But I had to mouth
the words to forgive.
00:19:05.07\00:19:08.54
Then I said, "Okay,
Lord, you got to forgive me
00:19:08.58\00:19:10.15
for my feelings
00:19:10.18\00:19:11.51
'cause my feelings
were just not lining up."
00:19:11.55\00:19:14.12
But then I get clear and
I get to go in the prisons.
00:19:14.15\00:19:17.32
And the guys are in there.
00:19:17.35\00:19:19.95
And I'm going,
00:19:19.99\00:19:21.39
"These are just like
the guys I grew up with."
00:19:21.42\00:19:23.99
I said, you're kindred spirits.
00:19:24.03\00:19:26.16
So I show them the
Love Chapter that just,
00:19:26.19\00:19:28.46
you know, took me down.
00:19:28.50\00:19:30.83
And I go, "Love is very patient,
00:19:30.87\00:19:33.44
you know, has anyone
ever loved you like that
00:19:33.47\00:19:35.37
and can you love like that?"
00:19:35.40\00:19:37.67
I go, "No force,
fear, intimidation,
00:19:37.71\00:19:39.67
manipulation in any
of our relationship,
00:19:39.71\00:19:42.14
that's the
methodology of the beast."
00:19:42.18\00:19:44.65
They've been teaching
us so critical bargain,
00:19:44.68\00:19:46.58
and agape critical thinking.
00:19:46.61\00:19:49.42
But I'm dealing
with N numbers. Right?
00:19:49.45\00:19:51.05
And the guys says,
it's funny at first,
00:19:51.09\00:19:52.95
I found out like we have 55 guys
00:19:52.99\00:19:55.72
in my class for two
hours on a Monday night,
00:19:55.76\00:19:58.86
all N numbers.
00:19:58.89\00:20:00.23
But they told me
they were depressed.
00:20:00.26\00:20:01.60
And you say N numbers.
00:20:01.63\00:20:02.96
Narcotics numbers,
they're narcotics violators.
00:20:03.00\00:20:05.30
And when they told me
that they were depressed,
00:20:05.33\00:20:07.54
I thought we lost the
world series of depression.
00:20:07.57\00:20:10.71
A neurosurgeon finally
comes in and he says, "No, no."
00:20:10.74\00:20:13.51
He does this
neurological evaluation.
00:20:13.54\00:20:15.28
He goes, "The
porch lights are out,
00:20:15.31\00:20:18.25
they're are
clinically depressed.
00:20:18.28\00:20:19.61
They're
floundering in darkness."
00:20:19.65\00:20:20.98
Right, right.
00:20:21.02\00:20:22.35
So I wasn't even in
the same hemisphere.
00:20:22.38\00:20:24.02
So again, I wanna
kind of couch the story in.
00:20:24.05\00:20:28.29
Here's a guy who
angry because of the things
00:20:28.32\00:20:32.29
that have happened in
his life from 3 to 19,
00:20:32.33\00:20:34.96
goes into the Marines,
00:20:35.00\00:20:36.63
joins up in the
Marines, gets out, meets a girl,
00:20:36.67\00:20:40.57
gets married, it
doesn't work out,
00:20:40.60\00:20:42.27
moves to California,
00:20:42.30\00:20:43.64
meets another
girl, has two kids.
00:20:43.67\00:20:45.24
Well, I met
another girl in Chicago,
00:20:45.27\00:20:46.78
we went to California.
00:20:46.81\00:20:48.14
Okay, met the girl in
Chicago, go to California.
00:20:48.18\00:20:49.51
We got divorced
again, two strikes.
00:20:49.54\00:20:50.88
Okay, okay.
00:20:50.91\00:20:52.31
So then what happens is,
after the second divorce,
00:20:52.35\00:20:56.38
you reach out or
take the hand of Christ
00:20:56.42\00:20:59.02
that he's been reaching to you
00:20:59.05\00:21:00.49
and almost immediately you get
involved in prison ministries.
00:21:00.52\00:21:04.23
As you're involved
with prison ministries,
00:21:04.26\00:21:05.59
you find that
what they're missing
00:21:05.63\00:21:07.40
is the same thing
that you have been missing
00:21:07.43\00:21:09.33
your whole life
00:21:09.36\00:21:10.70
which is unconditional,
unfettered, unmitigated love.
00:21:10.73\00:21:14.57
And so for the
last, how many years?
00:21:14.60\00:21:16.37
Thirty.
00:21:16.40\00:21:17.74
Last 30 years, you've
been going back and forth
00:21:17.77\00:21:19.77
into the prisons, meeting,
00:21:19.81\00:21:22.04
and witnessing,
and helping inmates.
00:21:22.08\00:21:25.75
What I'd like to ask is,
00:21:25.78\00:21:27.18
do you have a story of someone
that you met on the inside
00:21:27.22\00:21:30.15
that the Lord used
you to help work with,
00:21:30.19\00:21:33.02
who you were able to see
progress from being an inmate,
00:21:33.05\00:21:36.06
a con to actually being a
productive member of society?
00:21:36.09\00:21:39.69
I have one in particular
who's a pastor like you.
00:21:39.73\00:21:43.70
He came out.
00:21:43.73\00:21:45.63
And like my
friends were my inmates
00:21:45.67\00:21:48.07
but they're my friends.
00:21:48.10\00:21:49.44
They go, "Save us from the devil
00:21:49.47\00:21:51.11
and I'll save us
from the Pentecostals,"
00:21:51.14\00:21:53.14
because they have
all the halfway houses.
00:21:53.17\00:21:55.61
And so he goes...
00:21:55.64\00:21:57.08
One guy gets out, you know,
he goes to this halfway house
00:21:57.11\00:22:00.45
and they want him
to wash cars on Sabbath
00:22:00.48\00:22:02.28
and he refuses,
so he goes to church.
00:22:02.32\00:22:05.02
And his family that's there,
00:22:05.05\00:22:08.02
their son just graduated
from Loma Linda dental school
00:22:08.06\00:22:10.43
and then got
killed in a car accident.
00:22:10.46\00:22:11.86
Mercy. So they
kind of adopt him.
00:22:11.89\00:22:14.13
And they go, "You wanna
go to La Sierra, we'll pay?"
00:22:14.16\00:22:17.63
He said, "No, I
want to go to Weimar."
00:22:17.67\00:22:19.37
And they go, "You
want to go to Weimar."
00:22:19.40\00:22:21.44
So he goes to Weimar
and he calls me up, he goes,
00:22:21.47\00:22:23.20
"I'm going
through culture shock."
00:22:23.24\00:22:25.54
And I'm going,
"Oh, I bet," you know.
00:22:25.57\00:22:28.41
And he says, "No,
no, no, it's not that,
00:22:28.44\00:22:29.81
that's a conservatism."
00:22:29.84\00:22:31.25
He goes, "In prison,
00:22:31.28\00:22:32.91
no one believes a
word that you say,
00:22:32.95\00:22:34.68
there's no
responsibility to your words,
00:22:34.72\00:22:36.65
they just fall
life into the ground.
00:22:36.69\00:22:38.85
They believe everything I say.
00:22:38.89\00:22:40.36
I have to run and get
on my knees not to lie."
00:22:40.39\00:22:44.03
But then he graduates
00:22:44.06\00:22:45.39
and he goes and
becomes an evangelist.
00:22:45.43\00:22:46.76
And he tells me, I'm in Japan,
00:22:46.80\00:22:48.63
you know, teaching
conversational English."
00:22:48.66\00:22:50.33
And he says, "I'm
living in the church."
00:22:50.37\00:22:52.10
And he says, "You know,
00:22:52.13\00:22:53.47
I'll dwell in the house of Lord.
00:22:53.50\00:22:54.84
He has taken a
new meaning to me."
00:22:54.87\00:22:57.11
And he says, "You
know, to be a missionary,
00:22:57.14\00:22:58.97
I didn't have to cross the sea,
I just have to see the cross."
00:22:59.01\00:23:02.04
Mercy! Mercy! Mercy!
00:23:02.08\00:23:03.75
And so the brothers and
they're all totally going like,
00:23:03.78\00:23:06.55
"Well, Satan
uses the love of power
00:23:06.58\00:23:08.48
and God use the power of love."
00:23:08.52\00:23:09.98
Wow! Wow! Okay.
00:23:10.02\00:23:11.35
So we have all
this prisony bonnets
00:23:11.39\00:23:13.22
coming out that
we get to shortcuts.
00:23:13.25\00:23:15.72
And then we have,
what we call worship.
00:23:15.76\00:23:17.19
Okay.
00:23:17.23\00:23:18.56
So this gentleman
from directly being...
00:23:18.59\00:23:22.83
A drug addict. Yeah.
00:23:22.86\00:23:24.90
Exposed to Christ through
you, gets his life together,
00:23:24.93\00:23:28.44
becomes a minister,
00:23:28.47\00:23:30.67
and is now working
in the gospel ministry.
00:23:30.71\00:23:33.17
He's going around the
world in Russia, South America.
00:23:33.21\00:23:36.78
And I'm in this
little room with 55 guys.
00:23:36.81\00:23:39.75
So here's how God
works in your life.
00:23:39.78\00:23:41.58
God works and that He brings you
00:23:41.62\00:23:43.39
from what would be
some of the most...
00:23:43.42\00:23:49.56
I can only imagine.
00:23:49.59\00:23:50.93
You know, I can only imagine
seeing someone being molested,
00:23:50.96\00:23:54.20
and being taken advantage of,
and the rage, and the hatred.
00:23:54.23\00:23:57.50
You know, I grew up in
a situation with my mother
00:23:57.53\00:23:59.77
where she exposes the things
00:23:59.80\00:24:02.10
that I don't think any
child should be exposed to.
00:24:02.14\00:24:04.37
Nonetheless, it
didn't kill you, as they say,
00:24:04.41\00:24:06.91
it made you stronger.
00:24:06.94\00:24:08.54
And as you, for
lack of a better word,
00:24:08.58\00:24:11.01
ran away from these negative,
00:24:11.05\00:24:12.88
these potential
negative influences,
00:24:12.91\00:24:14.32
you found yourself
in the hands of Christ.
00:24:14.35\00:24:16.58
And for the last 30
years in the hands of Christ,
00:24:16.62\00:24:18.99
you've been a
tool used to work with
00:24:19.02\00:24:21.76
and help other inmates
00:24:21.79\00:24:23.12
who are probably rageaholics,
hateaholics, alcoholics,
00:24:23.16\00:24:26.36
sexaholics, all
manner of things.
00:24:26.39\00:24:28.23
And you even have
some stories of people
00:24:28.26\00:24:30.67
who have seen the cross
00:24:30.70\00:24:32.40
and are now helping
introduce others to the cross.
00:24:32.43\00:24:35.27
So here's what
I'd like you to do.
00:24:35.30\00:24:37.24
And I like you to take a moment,
00:24:37.27\00:24:38.61
there's a camera right here.
00:24:38.64\00:24:39.97
I want you to
look in this camera.
00:24:40.01\00:24:41.34
And quite possibly,
00:24:41.38\00:24:42.71
there's an inmate
in a prison somewhere
00:24:42.74\00:24:44.68
that's not California.
00:24:44.71\00:24:46.18
Maybe it's in Indiana,
maybe it's in New York,
00:24:46.21\00:24:48.48
maybe it's in Texas,
00:24:48.52\00:24:49.85
and you'll never
physically, quite possibly,
00:24:49.88\00:24:52.65
never physically
gets to get there
00:24:52.69\00:24:54.39
but with the help of technology
and this television show,
00:24:54.42\00:24:57.36
you can, right now be
there and speak to them.
00:24:57.39\00:25:00.66
I'd like you to
take the next two minutes
00:25:00.70\00:25:02.66
and I like you to say
00:25:02.70\00:25:04.13
whatever the Lord lays
on your heart to someone
00:25:04.17\00:25:06.53
who doesn't know
that there is a Christ
00:25:06.57\00:25:09.70
and doesn't think there
is a way out of the situation
00:25:09.74\00:25:12.64
he has found himself in.
00:25:12.67\00:25:15.48
I just want to
say that in prison
00:25:15.51\00:25:16.98
that there's five
words that have no meaning,
00:25:17.01\00:25:19.68
there's no point of reference.
00:25:19.71\00:25:21.58
Love, you know, is fiction
00:25:21.62\00:25:24.39
and it's
something that manipulate.
00:25:24.42\00:25:26.42
Mercy is weak.
You prefer vengeance.
00:25:26.45\00:25:30.09
I mean, love and
mercy is God's way,
00:25:30.13\00:25:31.66
we're calling God weak.
00:25:31.69\00:25:33.29
I says, then there's truth,
00:25:33.33\00:25:34.66
the truth to you
means to do what I want,
00:25:34.70\00:25:37.13
you know, to do
whatever gets me out of trouble
00:25:37.17\00:25:39.77
or what I want.
00:25:39.80\00:25:41.24
And trust nobody and
respect nobody or anything
00:25:41.27\00:25:44.07
but manipulate
it to your advantage
00:25:44.11\00:25:45.67
when you're
holding the trump card.
00:25:45.71\00:25:47.91
Ironically, those five cards,
00:25:47.94\00:25:49.84
those five words are critical
for a relationship love,
00:25:49.88\00:25:54.58
you know, mercy,
truth, trust and respect.
00:25:54.62\00:25:58.12
And when you look
at the Love Chapter,
00:25:58.15\00:26:00.49
you'll find what love really is.
00:26:00.52\00:26:02.19
And their
principles are not of feeling.
00:26:02.22\00:26:04.89
And when you let the rage go,
00:26:04.93\00:26:07.43
you'll find sanity in your life.
00:26:07.46\00:26:10.60
And you're gonna have to
really address your motives
00:26:10.63\00:26:15.10
because we can't
change our nature,
00:26:15.14\00:26:17.94
we can't change our
motives but God can.
00:26:17.97\00:26:21.71
And He's done it
too Aryan Brotherhood,
00:26:21.74\00:26:24.35
you know, brothers of
mine and Black Panthers
00:26:24.38\00:26:26.75
and Mexican Mafia guys.
00:26:26.78\00:26:29.65
And I conducted,
you know, rules for them
00:26:29.68\00:26:34.09
but they're too late.
00:26:34.12\00:26:36.06
It's not too late now.
00:26:36.09\00:26:37.79
It's only too late
when the body bag up.
00:26:37.83\00:26:40.56
So today, you
know, surrender to God.
00:26:40.60\00:26:44.73
Thank you, Keith.
00:26:44.77\00:26:46.10
That is powerful that it seems
that what the enemy tries to do
00:26:46.13\00:26:50.61
is take the attributes of
God or the character of God,
00:26:50.64\00:26:54.54
mar it and then reintroduce
it to us as a better way
00:26:54.58\00:26:59.85
and a better path.
00:26:59.88\00:27:01.22
But God has
shown through your life
00:27:01.25\00:27:02.78
and through the
life of countless others
00:27:02.82\00:27:04.15
who have been on this program,
00:27:04.19\00:27:05.69
and who may not
have been on this program
00:27:05.72\00:27:08.06
but are now
experiencing the love of Christ.
00:27:08.09\00:27:10.89
And that agape
love that you spoke of,
00:27:10.93\00:27:13.06
not the conditional love,
00:27:13.09\00:27:14.43
not the thing where
if you do this for me,
00:27:14.46\00:27:16.83
then I'll do that for you.
00:27:16.87\00:27:18.20
It's really based on,
"Listen, if necessary,
00:27:18.23\00:27:21.00
ask Christ that I'll
do everything for you."
00:27:21.04\00:27:23.81
And it seems through your story,
00:27:23.84\00:27:25.31
through the rage,
through the Marines,
00:27:25.34\00:27:27.84
through the divorces
that you have met a God,
00:27:27.88\00:27:30.51
you have been
introduced to a Christ
00:27:30.55\00:27:32.71
that loves you even
though you saw the molestation,
00:27:32.75\00:27:36.55
even though you saw the anger,
00:27:36.58\00:27:38.75
even though you
harbor the hatred,
00:27:38.79\00:27:40.89
even though you
ran to the Marines.
00:27:40.92\00:27:42.52
And were trained
to kill although,
00:27:42.56\00:27:44.16
he spared you from
actually taking someone's life.
00:27:44.19\00:27:47.03
He spared you and loved
you through the divorces.
00:27:47.06\00:27:49.23
He spared you and
loved you through your wife
00:27:49.26\00:27:52.20
hiding your children.
00:27:52.23\00:27:53.57
And he has now used you
00:27:53.60\00:27:55.07
and is using you as a conduit
00:27:55.10\00:27:57.17
to show that agape love
to inmates in California.
00:27:57.21\00:28:00.48
And I'm sure now
through this show,
00:28:00.51\00:28:02.58
God will use you to show
inmates love throughout America
00:28:02.61\00:28:06.82
and wherever there's
somebody incarcerated
00:28:06.85\00:28:08.58
not just behind physical bars
00:28:08.62\00:28:10.45
but even
incarcerated by the sin,
00:28:10.49\00:28:13.25
by the hatred, by the
anger, and the anguish.
00:28:13.29\00:28:16.02
And I just wanna thank you
for being on our show with us
00:28:16.06\00:28:17.93
and telling that story.
00:28:17.96\00:28:19.33
Now, Keith, what I also
wanna do is encourage you,
00:28:19.36\00:28:23.53
encourage you to
continue letting God use you,
00:28:23.57\00:28:27.30
continue to let Him guide you,
00:28:27.34\00:28:29.14
and continue the healing process
00:28:29.17\00:28:30.71
that happens on
a day to day basis
00:28:30.74\00:28:32.07
'cause Paul said,
"Nevertheless, I die daily."
00:28:32.11\00:28:37.05
I wanna thank you for joining us
00:28:37.08\00:28:38.71
on today's
program The New Journey.
00:28:38.75\00:28:41.85
It has been a wonderful
journey from hatred to agape.
00:28:41.88\00:28:47.72
God bless you.
00:28:47.76\00:28:49.09