The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to "The New Journey,"
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the program where we
meet real life people
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with real life testimonies,
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with real life
working ministries for Jesus.
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Today, we'll meet a man
that heads up a program entitled
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"Don't follow me."
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So many times in life
we're caught following someone
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or something which may
or may not always lead us
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in the right direction.
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In today's program we'll uncover
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the "who" of who we
should spend our time
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following and emulating
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as well as how this
relates to prison ministries.
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I'm your host Aaron Chancy.
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Come join us on The New Journey.
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Welcome back to The New Journey.
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Today, we have a guest
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by the name of
Dr. Cleveland Houser.
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Dr. Cleveland
Houser, we like to thank you
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for being on the program.
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It's my pleasure
to be with you today.
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Amen, amen.
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We want to jump right
into our programming for today.
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You know, we talk
about following people,
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don't follow me or
follow me, things like that.
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In actual reality in
life, who should we spend
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most of our time following?
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Of course without question,
we should follow Jesus Christ.
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Oh, yeah.
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He is the way
and if we follow Him,
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certainly our path
will be a lot smoother.
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Oh, yeah.
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And then we wouldn't
fall into a lot of the pitfall
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that we fall into...
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Okay.
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We won't get
caught up in quagmires.
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Amen. I like
that word quagmires.
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That's a good word.
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Now, you've been involved in
prison ministries for how long?
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I worked for
approximately 27 years I--
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It wasn't really my desire
to get into prison ministry
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I have no intimation...
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Okay.
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Any reason to
want to get into it.
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Wow.
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But after leaving
the pastoral ministry,
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I came to Nashville and I
was looking for an employment
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and of course every
thing that I tried to get into,
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seemed like the
Lord closed the doors.
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Okay.
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And I went to the
state employment office
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and they had a position open
called psychiatric chaplain 1.
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Okay.
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And I filled out an application
and about two weeks later
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the prison called me
and set up an interview
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and actually the interview
process had been closed.
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Okay.
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Closed and so when the
Lord opened it up for me,
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I just have to say Him,
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Lord and said in
southern common vernacular,
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Lord, You don't
show it out again.
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And so I knew that
that job was for me
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and very, very next day
the senior chaplain called me
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and told me
that he'd like for me
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to become a part of
the chaplain's staff
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in state prison.
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Okay.
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So how long were
you involved with the,
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as a chaplain in the TDOC
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Tennessee
Department of Correction.
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I've spent 16 years
as chaplain for TDOC
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and after that I
took an early retirement
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because Elder J. Alfred Johnson,
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the director of Adult Ministries
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for North American division.
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Okay.
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Asked me to come and
to be the prison ministry
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training consultant, because
he had absolutely no idea
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of what to do.
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And so I was happy for the
privilege and it has opened up
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doors for me to travel
all across the United States,
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and Canada and to teach people.
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It's amazing where God
will take you in His work.
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It is. Oh, yeah.
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It's very amazing.
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Now working with the
North American division
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of Seventh-day
Adventist, you said that you do
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consulting and training.
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What's all involved in
this consulting and training?
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Consulting and training
involve teaching church members
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how to work with prison inmates.
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Okay.
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How to set up
transitional houses?
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How to work with
their families of inmates?
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How to work with the
children, the juveniles?
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And also I do all
underwriting and research
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for prison ministry for
the North American division.
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So do you go to
churches and you train people,
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do you go to
communities, what's the process?
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Where do you go
to train folks out?
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I go churches and in fact
I just came back from Hawaii.
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Oh, wow.
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I do training
for prison ministry.
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Okay.
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So it's-- if it's a
church or if it's a conference
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or if it's some
leadership seminars
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or something of that nature,
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then Elder Johnson sends me
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to do to prison
ministry training for them.
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Okay, okay. Praise the Lord.
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I want to talk a
little bit about your program
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"Don't Follow Me."
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How and when was
Don't Follow Me started?
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Don't Follow Me
was started in 1988.
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Okay.
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And the way that it got started,
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when I look in our communities,
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young people
were getting involved
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in so many acts of violence
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and I was looking
in juvenile detention,
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you got 65,000 there, you
have 2,200 in adult prisons.
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You got 3,600 in
adult jails and...
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Okay.
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And homicide, the
leading cause of death
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among young
people between 5 and 15.
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Wow.
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And I said
something got to be done
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because the guys in prison,
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they are trying to get
out and the children...
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They are going right in.
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They're trying to tear
the walls down to get inside.
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Yeah.
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And so I
contemplated and the name came,
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Don't Follow Me, I
walked that way before.
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Okay, okay.
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So the purpose of your program
was basically to prevent people
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from getting incarcerated.
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You chose the
name, Don't Follow Me
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because you didn't want people
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to follow bad examples, correct?
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That's correct.
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Okay, now your employees per
se are very interesting people.
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I went on your
website and I've looked
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at some of your "employees."
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Who do you use in this
work in Don't Follow Me,
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in the Don't Follow Me program?
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Initially until 1999
I used primarily inmates
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who are incarcerated.
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Okay.
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The warden, then the
commissioner of correction
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gave me the
privilege to take inmates
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all across the
state of Tennessee.
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Wow.
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And sometimes I would
have 15 inmates about myself,
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we went to high
schools, communities...
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Were they still
incarcerated at that time?
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They were still incarcerated.
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And they were following
you throughout Tennessee...
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They were following
me throughout Tennessee.
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That's amazing.
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And thing about it,
they protected the program.
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They did not allow
anyone to mess up the program
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because it was a privilege.
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Yeah, yeah.
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For them to be able get
out and to talk to people
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and to try to keep them from
following in their footsteps.
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It's awesome program,
but on the outside since 99,
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I use ex-offenders.
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And minimum I have
about 11 in the base group.
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Okay.
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Six of them are
Seventh-day Adventists
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and they have joined
the church, we have...
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Through the prison ministries.
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Through prison ministry. Okay.
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And currently At
Hillcrest they serve as deacons,
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elders, director
of Men's Ministry,
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youth Sabbath school teachers,
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they're doing a
tremendous job...
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And I call, what I call is
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engage with the varsities.
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Okay.
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In which you allowed them
to talk about their situation
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through young people and
is, and of course is totally
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disclosing out themselves.
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And telling everything
about, and I say to them,
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you have to
totally disclose yourself
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in order to help someone else.
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And through this disclosure,
it not only helps to cure
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to those who are listening
but it also helps them.
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Because the more
that they talk about it,
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the more it gets
out of their system
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and they began to
look at positive ways
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in which to live and so
far that's why in my base group
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I have a 100% out of
people who are involved
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who have not
gone back to prison.
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Okay, that's good,
very, very good statistics.
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Now, have you noticed that
in using, like before 1999,
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using the current inmates
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and after 1999
using ex-offenders,
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have you seen a
great success rate
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in using them to speak out
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to ones that have not
been incarcerated before?
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All right, I have, I've
seen a great success rate.
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And not only to speak
out to those individuals,
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but the thing that amazes me
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is that USA Today stated
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Don't Follow Me as one
of the top ten drug busters
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in the United States of America.
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Wow. Amen.
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The American Black
Journal Association,
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we won first place as
the best news documentary.
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The Frees Foundation
said that we were the best
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innovative group
in middle Tennessee
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in which we won a first place.
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Okay.
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And teachers say
that we had a best program
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that has ever
entered a school system.
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And thing that happens when
we go into the school system,
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no matter how tough
the children try to be
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that when we're there,
they're quiet as a mouse.
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Okay.
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Now in a few seconds
we're gonna get to the youth.
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We're gonna transition
into talking about the youth
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in a few minutes.
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I want to know, can
people from other states
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get involved with
DFM, Don't Follow Me
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or is it just a
state wide thing?
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Can they become a
member? How does that work?
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Well, people can
become a member in a way,
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so what I am suggesting is that
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that Chapters of Don't Follow Me
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be started all
across the nation.
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It's a program
that can be replicated.
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And if you follow
our bylaws and guidelines
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that we have set up
then the program will vary,
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so we believe
that using ex-offenders
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is the best way about this
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is because ex-offenders
really don't have to attend
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pen state or you know
University of Michigan,
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they already have
a PhD in the streets.
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Yeah, that's true. That is true.
00:10:47.50\00:10:48.79
You know, if you
talk about drug dealing,
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they are street pharmacist.
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Yeah. They know
all of this stuff.
00:10:51.39\00:10:53.32
And so if you
utilize people in that way,
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then what we do
is we stop, you know,
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proliferation or
recidivism among them
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because, you know,
it costs us right now,
00:11:04.17\00:11:06.88
it costs us between
22 and $ 60,000 a year
00:11:06.91\00:11:10.25
to keep one man locked up.
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And think about
the economic grain
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that is
happening to the community.
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Your pocket book
and my pocket book
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because we're paying the
taxes for them to be locked up.
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Wow.
00:11:21.71\00:11:22.74
So it makes all the
sense in the world to me
00:11:22.77\00:11:25.22
to use ex-offenders, to
reach other ex-offenders
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and to slowdown the
proliferation of incarceration
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among those who get
out as well as to retard
00:11:33.20\00:11:37.29
the progress of young
people who are trying to get in
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by the lifestyle
that they are living.
00:11:40.16\00:11:42.14
You know one thing
that I find interesting,
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little side
note story of myself.
00:11:43.98\00:11:46.34
One time I was
incarcerated when I was 17
00:11:46.37\00:11:48.61
and I got released and I
went to check my mail one day
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and in the mail was a
bill for me staying in jail.
00:11:52.48\00:11:55.29
I was in jail for
two and half months
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and they sent me a
bill for over $2,000
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as if I needed to pay some rent
for being in the county jail.
00:12:00.16\00:12:03.22
You know I didn't
necessarily asked to be there
00:12:03.25\00:12:05.48
but I did deserved to be there.
00:12:05.51\00:12:07.44
You know what I want to do
right now is transition over
00:12:07.47\00:12:09.97
to talking to the--
you're talking about the youth.
00:12:10.00\00:12:12.28
On your website you have some
very interesting information
00:12:12.31\00:12:14.77
about the youth
and you look around
00:12:14.80\00:12:16.67
at the young people today.
00:12:16.70\00:12:18.01
You know they are not
interested in spiritual things.
00:12:18.04\00:12:20.29
They are mainly
interested in anything
00:12:20.32\00:12:22.31
that's entertaining them.
00:12:22.34\00:12:23.91
What do you believe
are some key factors
00:12:23.94\00:12:26.25
in keeping young people
from ever entering the system?
00:12:26.28\00:12:29.54
And I think there
are several factors.
00:12:29.57\00:12:32.22
One I think that relationship
with God and attending church
00:12:32.25\00:12:37.08
and being involved in church
00:12:37.11\00:12:38.93
and youth
activities that a church has.
00:12:38.96\00:12:42.05
I think a strong family
ties with mom and dad in home.
00:12:42.08\00:12:47.95
It usually helps out a lot.
00:12:47.98\00:12:50.10
I think education
is another key factor.
00:12:50.13\00:12:53.59
Okay.
00:12:53.62\00:12:54.68
Because what I have
noticed in prison system is that
00:12:54.71\00:12:58.05
82% of the guys who
are in prison are guys
00:12:58.08\00:13:02.62
who dropout of high
school from a tenth grade batch.
00:13:02.65\00:13:05.14
And that's true.
00:13:05.17\00:13:06.21
So either person
has to get an education,
00:13:06.24\00:13:09.16
if you don't plan
to get an education,
00:13:09.19\00:13:11.01
then what you do, you
plan to go to jail primarily
00:13:11.04\00:13:14.14
because you got to be
able to support yourself.
00:13:14.17\00:13:17.48
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:17.51\00:13:18.54
And people just not giving
jobs if you're not educated.
00:13:18.57\00:13:21.41
You got to have something
to offer to bring to the table,
00:13:21.44\00:13:23.88
so I think
education is a key thing
00:13:23.91\00:13:27.48
for young people
staying out of prison.
00:13:27.51\00:13:29.53
Okay, you know, that's
very true because you know
00:13:29.56\00:13:32.38
when I was younger, you know,
00:13:32.41\00:13:34.30
I was pretty much through a
school after the tenth grade,
00:13:34.33\00:13:36.79
you know, I don't even
really know how I made it
00:13:36.82\00:13:38.44
through the tenth
grade because, you know,
00:13:38.47\00:13:39.96
I really hardly
ever went to school.
00:13:39.99\00:13:41.87
And, you know, I was so
involved in criminal activities
00:13:41.90\00:13:44.84
and things like that,
that I wasn't thinking
00:13:44.87\00:13:46.62
about education at that point.
00:13:46.65\00:13:47.90
All I was thinking
about was that mighty dollar,
00:13:47.93\00:13:49.92
that fast money, how
quick I could get it.
00:13:49.95\00:13:51.94
And I sat back and I looked at,
you know, people that will work
00:13:51.97\00:13:54.87
full time and they
always just seem so stressed out
00:13:54.90\00:13:57.80
and, you know, it seems like
you work two weeks for a check
00:13:57.83\00:14:00.25
and it's just never makes do.
00:14:00.28\00:14:02.05
And, you know, the fast
money plays a big, big factor
00:14:02.08\00:14:05.77
to people, to
young people especially,
00:14:05.80\00:14:07.73
we see it all the time.
00:14:07.76\00:14:09.19
What do you believe are
some things that attract
00:14:09.22\00:14:12.48
the young people to that
negative type of lifestyle?
00:14:12.51\00:14:15.59
Well, I think there
are a number of things
00:14:15.62\00:14:18.86
that probably attract them.
00:14:18.89\00:14:22.13
Noticing fact
that there is a culture
00:14:22.16\00:14:28.05
that they are trying to fit in
00:14:28.08\00:14:31.34
and if you notice
that young people,
00:14:31.37\00:14:34.21
even as early as a third grade,
00:14:34.25\00:14:36.90
there's starting to be a
shift especially in guys.
00:14:36.93\00:14:40.61
It seem like up to the third
grade they would be embraced
00:14:40.64\00:14:43.81
by the teachers in
preschool and in third grade,
00:14:43.84\00:14:48.45
fourth grade they start drifting
00:14:48.48\00:14:50.26
and they start
staying out of school,
00:14:50.29\00:14:52.04
they get in trouble, they've
been put in school suspension
00:14:52.07\00:14:56.31
and next thing you go
to the principal office
00:14:56.34\00:14:58.90
and the next thing
you expel and next thing
00:14:58.93\00:15:00.72
you go to the alternative
school, alternative to work
00:15:00.75\00:15:04.13
and so then they got
to find a way to survive.
00:15:04.16\00:15:08.93
So what do they start doing?
00:15:08.96\00:15:11.06
They look at people who,
other kids who are wearing
00:15:11.09\00:15:13.59
designer tennis
shoe, designer clothes
00:15:13.62\00:15:17.40
and so they're going
to do whatever they can.
00:15:17.43\00:15:20.74
To get them so
what do they get to do?
00:15:20.77\00:15:22.56
They get
involved in gangs. Yeah.
00:15:22.59\00:15:24.24
They get involved in a drug
culture, start selling drugs.
00:15:24.27\00:15:27.92
And all of these
things, you know, play a...
00:15:27.95\00:15:31.98
Some key factors.
00:15:32.01\00:15:33.04
Important factor
in when a person stays
00:15:33.07\00:15:35.50
straight come
into the prison system.
00:15:35.53\00:15:38.55
Now what young people
don't realize a lot of time
00:15:38.58\00:15:41.27
is that when people deal drug,
and you look at a drug dealer
00:15:41.30\00:15:45.35
he is standing on the
corner and dealing drugs now,
00:15:45.38\00:15:47.83
six months later where is he?
00:15:47.86\00:15:50.26
He is incarcerated or dead.
00:15:50.29\00:15:52.27
Yeah are dead, so you really
when you only have two choices.
00:15:52.30\00:15:56.11
Yeah, that is true.
00:15:56.14\00:15:57.21
Either that's
prison or a grave yard,
00:15:57.24\00:15:59.12
so which one is
attractive to you?
00:15:59.15\00:16:00.96
So we try, you know,
those are so many things
00:16:00.99\00:16:03.58
that young
people face as factors.
00:16:03.61\00:16:06.58
Now their poverty...
00:16:06.61\00:16:09.33
Yeah, poverty.
Socioeconomic factors.
00:16:09.36\00:16:12.00
These are things that cause
young people to get in trouble
00:16:12.03\00:16:15.69
because they're
trying to survive.
00:16:15.72\00:16:17.72
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
00:16:17.75\00:16:18.90
Then you have fathers
who are locked up in prison.
00:16:18.93\00:16:22.71
Yeah, so there's
no father at home.
00:16:22.74\00:16:24.36
No father in home to
provide the guidance for them.
00:16:24.39\00:16:28.22
In fact and when I
even look at black families,
00:16:28.25\00:16:32.36
62% of black families
are run by single parents.
00:16:32.39\00:16:36.53
And so what happen is that
the mom has to be androgynous.
00:16:36.56\00:16:39.74
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:39.77\00:16:40.80
That means she got to be
both the mom and the dad.
00:16:40.83\00:16:43.09
Yeah.
00:16:43.12\00:16:44.15
And so in her trying
to take care of the kids,
00:16:44.18\00:16:47.40
she may have to get
out and work two jobs.
00:16:47.43\00:16:49.50
Yeah, two and three jobs, yeah.
00:16:49.53\00:16:50.74
But then who is there
to give them guidance.
00:16:50.77\00:16:53.19
Right, at the end time,
they have to raise themselves.
00:16:53.22\00:16:56.03
And so they start
doing things that, you know,
00:16:56.06\00:16:59.25
a mom would not approve,
I mean next day you know
00:16:59.28\00:17:01.83
they're in some deep water
that they can't get out of.
00:17:01.86\00:17:05.02
And then you start
looking at the environment
00:17:05.05\00:17:10.17
that they are in.
00:17:10.20\00:17:11.41
Where you got to do what
you got to do to survive.
00:17:11.44\00:17:14.30
Yeah, get it how
you live basically.
00:17:14.33\00:17:16.23
Right and if, you know, you
got to fight, you got to fight.
00:17:16.26\00:17:19.80
Yeah. You got to do something.
00:17:19.83\00:17:21.26
You got to pack, then take
a gun, you had to take a gun.
00:17:21.29\00:17:25.27
And, you know,
and one of the things
00:17:25.30\00:17:27.09
that I didn't
mentioned earlier, you know,
00:17:27.12\00:17:28.60
that kids take 270,000
guns to school every day.
00:17:28.63\00:17:34.32
Wow.
00:17:34.35\00:17:35.62
And so everybody basically
have a gun so young people now
00:17:35.65\00:17:40.35
start to taking their
turf, they have the macho image
00:17:40.38\00:17:44.21
that they got to take care of,
00:17:44.24\00:17:45.85
so if you step on the guy's toe,
00:17:45.88\00:17:48.60
you know, because of his
image he may pull the gun out
00:17:48.63\00:17:51.00
and shoots you there.
00:17:51.03\00:17:52.10
Back in your day it might
have been little hand scuffle
00:17:52.13\00:17:54.14
or something like that.
00:17:54.17\00:17:55.22
These days now, you know,
young people pulling out guns
00:17:55.25\00:17:58.49
and not just little hand guns.
00:17:58.52\00:18:00.16
You know, I know people that
have real big assault rifles
00:18:00.19\00:18:03.55
and things like that,
that only the military
00:18:03.58\00:18:05.52
or the police
are supposed to have.
00:18:05.55\00:18:07.02
And these young
people have these things
00:18:07.05\00:18:09.38
and instead of fighting because
they don't want to dirty up
00:18:09.41\00:18:12.21
their outfit or
anything like that.
00:18:12.24\00:18:13.77
They see it's better just
to, let me just end the life,
00:18:13.80\00:18:16.11
you know, which
is not good at all.
00:18:16.14\00:18:18.41
You know, another
key factor that I noticed
00:18:18.44\00:18:21.37
which there are many more music,
00:18:21.40\00:18:24.02
so many different
things, but one I see is
00:18:24.05\00:18:26.04
well which was true of my life
00:18:26.07\00:18:27.84
was lack of goals in the life.
00:18:27.87\00:18:29.51
Lack of, lack of
wanting to be somewhere.
00:18:29.54\00:18:31.98
You hear many people
especially those that grow up
00:18:32.01\00:18:35.44
start playing in the NBA,
NFL or whatever it may be,
00:18:35.47\00:18:38.60
they say, you know,
there were lot of things
00:18:38.63\00:18:40.40
going on in my area, I
grew up in a rough, rough area
00:18:40.43\00:18:43.55
inner city
Chicago, whatever it may be.
00:18:43.58\00:18:46.24
But they say, you
know, what, I had a focus,
00:18:46.27\00:18:48.30
I wanted to play ball, I
wanted to get out of the ghetto.
00:18:48.33\00:18:50.96
I wanted to get my
mom out of the ghetto.
00:18:50.99\00:18:52.58
I wanted to get my
family out of ghetto,
00:18:52.61\00:18:54.26
and they held onto that focus.
00:18:54.29\00:18:56.45
But for me I know growing up,
00:18:56.48\00:18:58.05
I had the dreams of the
basketball and the football
00:18:58.08\00:19:00.32
just like, you know, a lot
of young African-American males
00:19:00.35\00:19:02.84
want to play
sports, same thing for me.
00:19:02.87\00:19:05.10
And as soon as
those goals got crushed,
00:19:05.13\00:19:08.45
it was like what else do I do?
00:19:08.48\00:19:10.17
You know what else
is there in life to do?
00:19:10.20\00:19:11.75
I don't want to
be a school teacher.
00:19:11.78\00:19:13.17
I don't want to
be a firefighter.
00:19:13.20\00:19:14.45
Those things just
had no appeal to me.
00:19:14.48\00:19:16.46
So the only other thing was
to do was to resort to crime,
00:19:16.49\00:19:19.71
that was it.
00:19:19.74\00:19:20.78
And because of lack of
goals many young people
00:19:20.81\00:19:23.48
are going that route as well.
00:19:23.51\00:19:25.21
Right.
00:19:25.24\00:19:26.27
You know how effective
would you say your work has been
00:19:26.30\00:19:28.20
among the youth?
00:19:28.23\00:19:29.44
I think my work has been
greatly effective among youth
00:19:29.47\00:19:33.85
and when I started
looking at certain things
00:19:33.88\00:19:37.16
that has transpired
in all of the accolades
00:19:37.19\00:19:40.37
that we have gotten,
you know, for the work
00:19:40.40\00:19:42.26
that we do among
youth and in fact
00:19:42.29\00:19:44.75
the governor cited
me for being a leader
00:19:44.78\00:19:48.74
against the war on drugs
in the state of Tennessee.
00:19:48.77\00:19:51.40
Okay.
00:19:51.43\00:19:52.73
But I know that we've
done a lot of good things
00:19:52.76\00:19:55.49
to help the young
people and especially
00:19:55.52\00:19:57.28
we went to a school once
and there was a young person
00:19:57.31\00:19:59.90
that had half a kilo of cocaine.
00:19:59.93\00:20:02.41
And he said I am getting
into the big time drug business.
00:20:02.44\00:20:04.97
Sure enough he would
have a half a key, wow.
00:20:05.00\00:20:06.63
And so after we
finished talking to him,
00:20:06.66\00:20:10.60
he flushed it all
down the toilet of school.
00:20:10.63\00:20:13.15
And then he finished school.
00:20:13.18\00:20:16.39
Okay.
00:20:16.42\00:20:17.49
And went on to
do well in his life.
00:20:17.53\00:20:18.84
That's great.
00:20:18.87\00:20:19.90
And we've had stories
where kids will come up to us
00:20:19.93\00:20:22.36
in the malls, I remember you,
you were, "Don't Follow Me."
00:20:22.39\00:20:26.72
And so, well, I was
acting up in school,
00:20:26.75\00:20:29.59
but I have finished school.
00:20:29.62\00:20:31.22
Amen.
00:20:31.25\00:20:32.28
I got a job, you
know, I am going to college
00:20:32.31\00:20:35.69
and when they tell us
those things like that we know
00:20:35.72\00:20:38.04
that our job has been effective.
00:20:38.07\00:20:40.26
Okay, you know, that's
very important what you said.
00:20:40.29\00:20:43.17
Many viewers may not
understand drug terminology,
00:20:43.20\00:20:46.54
half a key or key
or anything like that.
00:20:46.57\00:20:49.00
Because I spent time in a
drug world, I know what that is.
00:20:49.03\00:20:51.64
And for a young person to
flush that amount of drugs
00:20:51.67\00:20:54.79
which equals
thousands of dollars,
00:20:54.82\00:20:56.94
that was big on his part,
00:20:56.97\00:20:58.24
that you had to make
a very, very big impact
00:20:58.27\00:21:00.82
for that young man
to be able to go ahead
00:21:00.85\00:21:02.75
and do that and flush
that thousands of dollars
00:21:02.78\00:21:05.28
down the toilet.
00:21:05.31\00:21:06.42
That was really impactful.
00:21:06.45\00:21:08.08
Now, what I want to do is
switch gears a little bit more.
00:21:08.11\00:21:10.74
On your website you talk about
00:21:10.77\00:21:12.83
getting involved
in prison ministries.
00:21:12.86\00:21:15.13
For those who desire to get
involved in prison ministries,
00:21:15.16\00:21:18.06
what are some of the do's
and the don'ts of the work,
00:21:18.09\00:21:20.20
of going inside the prisons?
00:21:20.23\00:21:21.70
Okay, there're several
don'ts and several do's.
00:21:21.73\00:21:24.42
Okay, talk about those?
00:21:24.45\00:21:26.70
Don'ts we suggest that
00:21:26.73\00:21:28.85
you don't carry
anything into prison.
00:21:28.88\00:21:31.69
You don't carry
anything out of the prison.
00:21:31.72\00:21:33.90
Okay.
00:21:33.93\00:21:35.06
No exchange of the money,
no exchange of the telephones,
00:21:35.09\00:21:39.37
be yourself.
00:21:39.40\00:21:40.73
Okay.
00:21:40.76\00:21:41.85
Be honest, be frank and be fair.
00:21:41.88\00:21:44.32
Now, inmate doesn't care
about you being frank with him
00:21:44.35\00:21:47.53
as long you're honest.
00:21:47.56\00:21:49.39
Don't compromise,
don't promise something
00:21:49.42\00:21:51.90
that you can't do and
you know that you can't do.
00:21:51.93\00:21:54.75
Follow the policy of the
prison and if you are female
00:21:54.78\00:22:00.04
and you're working
inside, avoid getting into
00:22:00.07\00:22:03.51
intimate
relationships with the inmates.
00:22:03.54\00:22:07.25
Because when you're working
in the prison ministry program,
00:22:07.28\00:22:11.04
if you get involved
with the man in the prison,
00:22:11.07\00:22:16.18
then what it does,
00:22:16.21\00:22:17.76
it puts the prison
ministry program in danger.
00:22:18.30\00:22:20.88
Yeah, it does.
They can be scrapped.
00:22:20.91\00:22:22.57
So we suggest that if
you are going to get involved
00:22:22.60\00:22:26.79
with someone, then
please get off of the program.
00:22:26.82\00:22:29.77
And if they don't get off,
we just tell the program leader
00:22:29.80\00:22:33.31
that you need to make sure
that the person is dismissed
00:22:33.34\00:22:37.31
from the program so that it
won't keep you from coming in.
00:22:37.34\00:22:39.84
Okay, you know, you said
something very important.
00:22:39.87\00:22:42.54
You said don't bring
anything into the prisons
00:22:42.57\00:22:44.62
that are not
supposed to be there.
00:22:44.65\00:22:46.30
You know, I've seen so
many and heard so many stories
00:22:46.33\00:22:48.53
of people that have
brought drugs in for inmates,
00:22:48.56\00:22:51.46
different things like that.
00:22:51.49\00:22:52.66
And in turn while they
are bringing things in,
00:22:52.69\00:22:54.89
they themselves may get caught
and catch a charge themselves.
00:22:54.92\00:22:58.25
Right and case in
point there was one gentleman
00:22:58.28\00:23:02.02
he had his mother bringing
in drugs in pretty big baskets.
00:23:02.05\00:23:05.50
She hide it down
into bottom of the chest,
00:23:05.53\00:23:08.03
ice and food in there
00:23:08.06\00:23:10.42
and she had
drugs down underneath.
00:23:10.45\00:23:14.67
And so when she
went out the gate,
00:23:14.70\00:23:16.71
well, before she
got into the prison
00:23:16.74\00:23:19.51
they found the drugs in there,
00:23:19.54\00:23:21.19
so he called metro
and she went to jail.
00:23:21.22\00:23:23.99
And I think it was
really bad when a guy would
00:23:24.02\00:23:26.82
put his mother in
that kind of position.
00:23:26.85\00:23:29.03
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:29.06\00:23:30.12
And of course, drugs get into
prison in all kinds of ways,
00:23:30.15\00:23:32.84
the employees
bring them in there
00:23:32.87\00:23:34.54
and they can put them
in the baby diapers...
00:23:34.57\00:23:36.52
Yeah, that's true.
00:23:36.55\00:23:37.58
Cut cardboard
boxes and put cocaine.
00:23:37.61\00:23:41.02
There is not a
prison in United States
00:23:41.05\00:23:44.41
I don't care if he is trying
to supermax of where it is,
00:23:44.44\00:23:48.94
guys on the inside gonna
hold to drugs and alcohol.
00:23:48.97\00:23:53.80
And in fact at Tennessee
State Prison there was a guy
00:23:53.83\00:23:57.44
who had a gun on death row.
00:23:57.47\00:24:00.08
Now, that's dangerous.
00:24:00.11\00:24:01.15
Yeah and I worked death row for,
00:24:01.18\00:24:03.16
you know, for about five years.
00:24:03.19\00:24:05.83
Sitting in the jail
cell with some of the most
00:24:05.86\00:24:07.79
notorious killers in
the state of Tennessee,
00:24:07.82\00:24:10.15
just studying the
Bible, singing songs,
00:24:10.18\00:24:12.80
do a little seminars and
different things with them.
00:24:12.83\00:24:16.01
Okay.
00:24:16.04\00:24:17.07
And so they enjoyed
me doing that and in fact
00:24:17.10\00:24:19.87
I baptized a
gentleman on death row
00:24:19.90\00:24:22.63
who's still an Adventist today.
00:24:22.66\00:24:24.41
Wow. Amen, amen.
00:24:24.44\00:24:25.89
With the ministry on there and
so I've found that in working
00:24:25.92\00:24:29.49
with inmates in prison that if
you treat them with dignity...
00:24:29.52\00:24:33.35
Yeah, yeah with respect.
00:24:33.38\00:24:34.65
Respect, they
will respect you...
00:24:34.68\00:24:37.30
And that's why in
1985 they had a prison riot
00:24:37.33\00:24:41.40
and the inmates told me before--
00:24:41.43\00:24:43.07
they knew that
they were gonna riot.
00:24:43.10\00:24:45.56
And they told me that
look, you don't have to worry
00:24:45.59\00:24:48.38
about a thing.
00:24:48.41\00:24:49.44
If nobody else get
out of this prison,
00:24:49.47\00:24:51.07
you're going to get out.
00:24:51.10\00:24:52.17
Wow.
00:24:52.20\00:24:53.23
I watched him
tear up and burn up
00:24:53.26\00:24:54.92
and I stood on chapel steps
00:24:54.95\00:24:57.08
and then they
walked me to the gates.
00:24:57.11\00:24:59.65
They held ten of
my co-workers hostage.
00:24:59.68\00:25:01.92
So the inmates
walked you to the gate.
00:25:01.95\00:25:03.38
They walked me to the gate. Wow.
00:25:03.41\00:25:05.12
They told me all the
time we're gonna make sure
00:25:05.15\00:25:07.46
that you get out.
00:25:07.49\00:25:08.82
My thing in working
with inmates and people
00:25:08.85\00:25:12.00
who are less
fortunate in down front
00:25:12.03\00:25:14.20
is that at the end of
the day when Jesus return,
00:25:14.23\00:25:18.97
I want to be saved
into God's kingdom.
00:25:19.00\00:25:21.92
I don't want anything to
hinder me from being saved.
00:25:21.95\00:25:24.98
Amen, true indeed, true indeed.
00:25:25.01\00:25:26.90
Now I want to ask you
a real quick question.
00:25:26.93\00:25:30.00
You've taught people how to get
involved in prison ministries
00:25:30.03\00:25:33.02
without ever going
inside of the prisons.
00:25:33.05\00:25:35.64
Can you speak on
that for few moments?
00:25:35.67\00:25:37.73
Sure, there are several
ways to get involved, you know,
00:25:37.76\00:25:42.40
and a lot of people are scared
to go inside of the prison
00:25:42.43\00:25:44.80
because they are
scared of hearing those doors
00:25:44.83\00:25:47.20
hit that steel
behind him real hard.
00:25:47.23\00:25:49.49
Yeah.
00:25:49.52\00:25:50.56
But you can get
involved with van ministry
00:25:50.59\00:25:53.16
where you are
transporting the families of men
00:25:53.19\00:25:57.86
who are locked up
may be once a month.
00:25:57.89\00:26:00.09
Okay.
00:26:00.12\00:26:01.18
And you don't have
to go inside the prison,
00:26:01.21\00:26:03.05
you just drop
them off at the gate.
00:26:03.08\00:26:05.00
And you keep records
and you have people to work
00:26:05.03\00:26:07.69
with toiletry ministries.
00:26:07.72\00:26:10.59
Lot of men and women don't have
money to buy personal items.
00:26:10.62\00:26:15.43
Clothing ministry and
all men have basically
00:26:15.46\00:26:18.19
when they are
coming out of prison
00:26:18.22\00:26:19.32
it would be designer
clothes which will have like
00:26:19.35\00:26:22.08
Tennessee Department
of Correction on the back.
00:26:22.11\00:26:24.11
Okay. And they need clothes.
00:26:24.14\00:26:26.34
Transition housing
that you can set up,
00:26:26.37\00:26:29.27
so they will have place to stay
00:26:29.30\00:26:30.78
when they get out
outside of the prison.
00:26:30.81\00:26:33.96
Then you have children's
ministry where you provide
00:26:33.99\00:26:37.03
things for inmate's families.
00:26:37.06\00:26:39.28
And children
primarily and of course you have
00:26:39.31\00:26:42.30
support ministries
where woman can come
00:26:42.33\00:26:45.94
and you can work
with them and help them
00:26:45.97\00:26:49.69
to be able to make the
transition during the time
00:26:49.72\00:26:53.69
that their loved
ones are locked up
00:26:53.72\00:26:55.41
because when our loved
one is locked up in prison,
00:26:55.44\00:26:58.53
also will be the family.
00:26:58.56\00:27:00.24
The family is on the time.
00:27:00.27\00:27:01.31
Yeah, family is
on the time as well.
00:27:01.34\00:27:02.37
And those are just some,
while there are several more
00:27:02.40\00:27:04.43
that they can do.
00:27:04.46\00:27:06.01
And it doesn't require you
to go inside of the prison.
00:27:06.04\00:27:08.56
So that' why I say
that there is no church,
00:27:08.59\00:27:11.38
nowhere under the
sun that has an excuse
00:27:11.41\00:27:14.20
for not doing prison ministry.
00:27:14.23\00:27:15.84
Amen, amen.
00:27:15.87\00:27:16.90
At this point
what I want you to do
00:27:16.93\00:27:18.20
is provide your
website information,
00:27:18.23\00:27:20.25
provide your
contact information.
00:27:20.28\00:27:22.01
So that people that are desiring
00:27:22.04\00:27:23.60
to get in prison ministries,
00:27:23.63\00:27:25.75
they can contact you and
have you come to their church
00:27:25.78\00:27:27.23
and share this
information with them.
00:27:27.26\00:27:29.40
Okay, if you desire for
me to come to your church
00:27:29.43\00:27:32.32
and to teach you how to get
involved in prison ministries,
00:27:32.35\00:27:38.46
please go to my website
00:27:38.49\00:27:40.69
www.dontfollowmeinc.org
00:27:40.72\00:27:46.58
And do you want to provide a
phone number for the viewers?
00:27:46.61\00:27:49.10
If you want to
call me, 615-818-9846.
00:27:49.13\00:27:55.28
Again that's 615-818-9846.
00:27:55.31\00:28:00.67
Amen, thank you
so much Dr. Houser.
00:28:00.70\00:28:02.75
Viewer you've been watching
The New Journey program.
00:28:02.78\00:28:05.87
You've learned some information,
00:28:05.90\00:28:07.50
maybe you want to get
involved in prison ministries,
00:28:07.53\00:28:09.93
we encourage you to do so.
00:28:09.96\00:28:12.29
Check the website
out, call the phone number,
00:28:12.32\00:28:14.81
have them come to
your church and be trained.
00:28:14.84\00:28:16.91
Thank you for
joining The New Journey.
00:28:16.94\00:28:18.81
Join us next time. Be blessed.
00:28:18.84\00:28:20.82