We are back. And
we're having a good time.
00:00:10.58\00:00:12.65
You know, you meet people
that you like them instantly
00:00:12.66\00:00:16.10
and immediately
and good Dr. Sean,
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I feel very, very
comfortable with him.
00:00:18.76\00:00:20.39
And the information is technical
00:00:20.40\00:00:22.71
but this is a good stuff.
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And I'm glad to hear.
00:00:24.21\00:00:25.43
And David is an old
friend and old buddy by now
00:00:25.44\00:00:27.34
and we are glad
that you're both here.
00:00:27.35\00:00:28.65
I love being here.
00:00:28.66\00:00:29.66
Yeah, we've gone through a lot
00:00:29.67\00:00:31.36
and there is yet
more ground to cover.
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So let's go through it.
00:00:35.21\00:00:37.96
We've answered the question,
00:00:37.97\00:00:39.70
why believe in little
six day creation? We've got--
00:00:39.71\00:00:42.17
We'll certainly talk about that.
00:00:42.18\00:00:43.25
We do you have one
more piece of evidence there
00:00:43.26\00:00:45.78
that you're
gonna find staggering,
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absolutely staggering.
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I think we've
actually got some images here
00:00:51.28\00:00:52.70
that will come up in just a bit,
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but--but there
is a paleontologist
00:00:53.74\00:00:57.00
who was digging.
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She found a
t-rex bone, we all know
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what a Tyrannosaurus
Rex is, many of them,
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and she, she took that bone
and she sort of materialized,
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sort of, what's
that, dematerialized.
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Dematerialized the bone,
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so that she could sort of look
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at the soft tissue
et cetera and she found
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what we see here on our screen,
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what are we looking at, Sean?
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She found soft tissue
that was still flexible,
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and pliable, and elastic and--
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What are the
little red things there?
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Within the soft tissue
she found blood vessels
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with blood cells inside of them
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and the blood cells
had these identifiable,
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sequenceable protein hemoglobin
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that actually
elucidated specific
00:01:35.49\00:01:36.99
antibiotic responses. Wow!
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And a lot of people
initially doubted this
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because people
had, scientists had gone
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on record saying
protein, sequenceable proteins
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and soft tissue
like this could not last
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more than a few tens
and thousands of years,
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maybe a hundred thousand years
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at the maximum outset
and yet these T-Rex bones,
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60-65 million years old,
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according to
mainstream thinking. Yes.
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And so this came as a huge blow
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to the scientific community
and a lot of scientists
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thought there maybe
this was contamination,
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maybe these structures
were preserved by biofilms,
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modern bacteria had kind
of produce these structures.
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But that has been
since been disproved
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that these are actual proteins,
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real proteins from
the dinosaurs itself.
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Okay. So let's
get the picture here.
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These dinosaurs
based on mainstream,
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Geology, T-Rex sort of
60-65 million years ago
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and you're not
only a pathologist,
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you have a
specialization within pathology,
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which deals with blood
Right, hematopathology.
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Okay, so hematopathology.
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So you're dealing
with blood everyday. Right.
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Right. So--let me
get the picture here.
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This, if I watch
out in the woods here
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having forbid and
fell over and died,
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I wouldn't think that much of me
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would be around 65
million years later
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and certainly not my blood.
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And no one else saw that either
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until Mary
Schweitzer found this discovery.
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So a dinosaur falls over.
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It becomes fossilized,
which obviously either killed
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by the flood or it
was covered shortly
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thereafter it
died by a flood and--
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okay fossilization of
bone is okay because the bone
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is a reasonably hard material.
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But now she is looking inside
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and she's the--I mean
what would she thought
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when she
would've seen this blood,
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these
erythrocytes, these blood cells.
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What would she thought?
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She thought that
they were some atifact
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at first and then
she said-- she said,
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but they certainly
look like blood cells.
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She went and
showed them to her boss.
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And the boss says,
"Well prove it wrong.
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Try to prove it wrong."
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And so she did all these tests
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and actually
proved it right. Wow.
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And one of the tests they did,
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didn't you tell me
something about they injected it
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into a rat or something?
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Yeah, they
ingested into live animals
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and that's how they discovered
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the specific immune
response to hemoglobin.
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Wow. So they know
what's hemoglobin,
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and it's tyrannosaurus
Rex hemoglobin. Correct.
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Now how does that stick
around for 65 million years?
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No one really has a good idea
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on how that can
happen for that long.
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and so you're saying
is before Mary Schweitzer
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made this
discovery, the uppermost limit
00:03:51.63\00:03:55.09
for how long something
like that would be expected
00:03:55.10\00:03:56.95
to stick around would have been?
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Hundred thousand years.
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A hundred thousand years. Right.
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As the uppermost
limit. Right. Wow.
00:04:01.77\00:04:04.67
Even in mainstream thinking.
00:04:04.68\00:04:06.19
So this would communicate
from our perspective,
00:04:06.20\00:04:08.51
hey this screams, this
smacks off young earth.
00:04:08.52\00:04:11.64
This thing was buried recently
00:04:11.65\00:04:13.00
just within the last
several thousand years.
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Yeah, it's much more consistent
00:04:15.18\00:04:16.41
with a recent burial
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like within less
than ten thousand years.
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It's much closer to that now.
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It seems like at
least before Mary Schweitzer
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came on the scene than versus,
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you know, 65 million years.
00:04:27.58\00:04:29.19
And--now she is
not a creationist.
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She is not. And she
still doesn't believe
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that this actually represents
evidence for young earth.
00:04:32.56\00:04:35.76
So she has unearthed
evidence that, my question is,
00:04:35.77\00:04:39.76
what then the
science do when it runs into,
00:04:39.77\00:04:42.00
smack into something
00:04:42.01\00:04:43.71
that says your theory is wrong?
00:04:43.72\00:04:45.44
Does it expand
its own belief system?
00:04:45.45\00:04:48.24
It said we're
about finding evidence
00:04:48.25\00:04:50.68
and then we're
gonna take that evidence
00:04:50.69\00:04:51.98
and say what does
that evidence mean?
00:04:51.99\00:04:53.75
So this evidence leads
to a certain conclusion.
00:04:53.76\00:04:56.37
Well, they do say-- I
don't want to make that--
00:04:56.38\00:04:57.44
They do say we were wrong.
00:04:57.45\00:04:58.68
Oh, yes, we were wrong.
But we must have been wrong
00:04:58.69\00:05:00.61
about the
preservation of proteins.
00:05:00.62\00:05:02.07
It must now be
possible to preserve it
00:05:02.08\00:05:03.70
for 65 million years. Ah, yes!
00:05:03.71\00:05:06.57
Because you can't
challenge Darwinism,
00:05:06.58\00:05:08.82
you can't challenge evolution--
00:05:08.83\00:05:09.99
We're gonna talk
about that. That's kind
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of like a holy doctrine
which you can't really touch,
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but you can modify
your other theories
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in order to fit the new
evidence back into that.
00:05:15.57\00:05:18.70
Okay. Now what
about-- what about,
00:05:18.71\00:05:20.17
we've looked at
some of these evidences.
00:05:20.18\00:05:21.21
Why believe in the
literal six day creation?
00:05:21.22\00:05:22.73
But what about
the person who says,
00:05:22.74\00:05:24.73
but they have
already dated the rocks.
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I mean, you go dig up a
rock, you pick it up and,
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are there labels
attached to these rocks?
00:05:29.35\00:05:31.07
I mean someone's gonna be bound,
00:05:31.08\00:05:32.61
be watching the program
and someone's gonna show
00:05:32.62\00:05:34.45
this program to
someone and they gonna say,
00:05:34.46\00:05:35.73
"Oh, they've dated the
rocks conclusively to millions
00:05:35.74\00:05:38.72
and in some cases
billions of years old."
00:05:38.73\00:05:40.99
Right. And in some
ways the rocks are labeled.
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There are
radiometric dating methods
00:05:44.53\00:05:47.33
that you can use day rocks.
00:05:47.34\00:05:49.30
And I'm not going to--
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But it's a
technical, doesn't it?
00:05:51.38\00:05:53.01
Right. It's very
technical and I'm not gonna say
00:05:53.02\00:05:54.73
it's simple although
we have all the answers
00:05:54.74\00:05:56.45
on the young earth side
00:05:56.46\00:05:57.89
or young life side
of the equation now.
00:05:57.90\00:06:00.47
There is some
mystery still out there
00:06:00.48\00:06:02.02
for radiometric dating.
00:06:02.03\00:06:03.35
But there is also some
mysteries for the other side.
00:06:03.36\00:06:05.86
For example, there's been fairly
00:06:05.87\00:06:08.70
significant
quantities of carbon 14
00:06:08.71\00:06:10.83
discovered
within these old fossils
00:06:10.84\00:06:13.88
and also coal and oil as well.
00:06:13.89\00:06:15.72
It's very hard to
explain how carbon 14
00:06:15.73\00:06:17.65
can be there
radioactive element,
00:06:17.66\00:06:19.86
because carbon 14 is
supposed to be completely gone,
00:06:19.87\00:06:22.74
non-detectable within less
than hundred thousand years.
00:06:22.75\00:06:26.03
And some of these
fossils are millions--
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Tens and hundreds.
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By traditional
geological standards
00:06:29.20\00:06:30.65
millions of years old
00:06:30.66\00:06:32.05
and yet they still
have carbon 14 now.
00:06:32.06\00:06:33.51
Something shouldn't be there--
00:06:33.52\00:06:34.56
Shouldn't be
there. ...if that is true.
00:06:34.57\00:06:35.60
Right. And also
there are discrepancies
00:06:35.61\00:06:37.77
between other dating methods
like fission track dating
00:06:37.78\00:06:42.07
and tektites versus Carbon 14
00:06:42.08\00:06:45.21
and that's also
technical as well,
00:06:45.22\00:06:46.81
but not all dating methods agree
00:06:46.82\00:06:48.68
and the same thing is true.
00:06:48.69\00:06:51.17
Dating methods can also be done
00:06:51.18\00:06:52.63
without radiometric dating,
at least age approximations.
00:06:52.64\00:06:55.66
For example, the--
Erosion rates. Erosion rates,
00:06:55.67\00:06:58.27
it's a way-- That's
also a geologic clock.
00:06:58.28\00:06:59.97
Right. There's also
a way to estimate age
00:06:59.98\00:07:01.71
or lapse time
between physical features
00:07:01.72\00:07:04.78
and sometimes
these things dramatically
00:07:04.79\00:07:07.33
disagree with
standard chronology.
00:07:07.34\00:07:09.82
So--so can we,
would it be safe to say
00:07:09.83\00:07:12.08
that when we're
dealing with science
00:07:12.09\00:07:13.41
there's two
things, there's the facts
00:07:13.42\00:07:15.95
and then there is
the interpretation
00:07:15.96\00:07:17.39
of the facts or the evidence
00:07:17.40\00:07:18.83
and the
interpretation of the evidence?
00:07:18.84\00:07:19.85
Oh, yeah. Or you
might call it the data
00:07:19.86\00:07:21.39
and the
interpretation of the data.
00:07:21.40\00:07:22.95
And, you know, everybody says,
00:07:22.96\00:07:24.48
"Well, you know,
religion is about faith,
00:07:24.49\00:07:26.96
making leaps of faith, you know,
00:07:26.97\00:07:29.00
and God doesn't
give us all the evidence
00:07:29.01\00:07:30.83
because He wants
us to have faith."
00:07:30.84\00:07:33.29
But for me, if
you have more evidence
00:07:33.30\00:07:35.09
your faith increases.
00:07:35.10\00:07:36.22
The more
evidence God gives you--
00:07:36.23\00:07:37.34
Yeah, that's Hebrews 11.
00:07:37.35\00:07:38.35
Right. The
greater your faith is.
00:07:38.36\00:07:40.25
I mean the disciples
they have more or less faith
00:07:40.26\00:07:42.51
after the resurrection
of Christ. Yeah, great.
00:07:42.52\00:07:45.15
Right. They had more faith
00:07:45.16\00:07:46.26
because they have more evidence.
00:07:46.27\00:07:47.90
And science is the
same thing. People say,
00:07:47.91\00:07:49.98
"Well science
isn't about faith."
00:07:49.99\00:07:51.37
But it is.
Science interprets data
00:07:51.38\00:07:53.69
and makes predictions
based on limited data
00:07:53.70\00:07:56.30
about the future
that is never perfect.
00:07:56.31\00:07:58.64
There is always a
possibility of being wrong
00:07:58.65\00:08:00.92
in science and that's where--
00:08:00.93\00:08:01.93
Actually the
attraction of science.
00:08:01.94\00:08:03.07
Right. And that's where
the leap of faith comes in.
00:08:03.08\00:08:05.14
If you cannot possibly
be proved wrong in science,
00:08:05.15\00:08:07.96
you're not being scientific.
00:08:07.97\00:08:09.88
And so by
definition then scientists
00:08:09.89\00:08:12.83
themselves make leaps of faith
00:08:12.84\00:08:14.13
when they come to
their conclusions.
00:08:14.14\00:08:16.08
That's actually one of
the standards of science,
00:08:16.09\00:08:18.09
falsifiability.
Correct. At least--
00:08:18.10\00:08:20.27
Is the theory even
theoretically it is provable.
00:08:20.28\00:08:23.02
Correct. Now
another thing just talking
00:08:23.03\00:08:25.34
maybe ever brief
here, just ever so briefly
00:08:25.35\00:08:27.27
about science in general,
00:08:27.28\00:08:28.30
Science doesn't really
arrive at truth as such,
00:08:28.31\00:08:31.92
it sort of--It narrows
the field, you're right.
00:08:31.93\00:08:35.29
Yeah, narrows the field.
00:08:35.30\00:08:36.34
It's able to detect error
00:08:36.35\00:08:37.87
and there if I narrow the place
00:08:37.88\00:08:39.44
where truth is
likely to be found.
00:08:39.45\00:08:41.01
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:08:41.02\00:08:42.10
Okay, so just a
moment ago you mentioned
00:08:42.11\00:08:43.71
what sort of transition,
now to our third question,
00:08:43.72\00:08:45.45
this seems like a very
appropriate place to do it.
00:08:45.46\00:08:47.73
And that is we sort of dealt
00:08:47.74\00:08:49.20
with why believe in
creation at all. Sure.
00:08:49.21\00:08:51.19
And then why believe
00:08:51.20\00:08:52.56
in a literal six day creation,
00:08:52.57\00:08:53.80
we started looking
at some evidences here.
00:08:53.81\00:08:55.43
But then you mentioned
00:08:55.44\00:08:56.97
there this sort of Holy Grail
00:08:56.98\00:08:58.81
or this sort of
Holy Cow, you know,
00:08:58.82\00:09:00.78
they're untouchable don't touch
00:09:00.79\00:09:02.14
the sacred cow
and that's Darwinism.
00:09:02.15\00:09:05.67
At least his mechanism.
00:09:05.68\00:09:07.13
His mechanism, so let's
now ask the third question,
00:09:07.14\00:09:10.04
why not believe in Darwinism?
00:09:10.05\00:09:12.94
Well, that's a
really good question,
00:09:12.95\00:09:14.17
because there's a lot of
reasons to believe in it.
00:09:14.18\00:09:17.98
For one thing
his mechanism works
00:09:17.99\00:09:19.70
and that make
him as a shot to hear
00:09:19.71\00:09:21.94
a creationist like myself say
00:09:21.95\00:09:23.87
that the Darwinian
mechanism works. Okay.
00:09:23.88\00:09:26.26
You got a lot of explaining
to do right now, does it.
00:09:26.27\00:09:29.07
Yeah, the
Darwinian mechanism for those
00:09:29.08\00:09:31.25
who don't know
is randimitations,
00:09:31.26\00:09:33.64
genetic changes
that are random combined
00:09:33.65\00:09:35.70
with natural selection
or survival of the fittest.
00:09:35.71\00:09:37.68
Survival of the
fittest, okay. Right.
00:09:37.69\00:09:39.28
In the usual vernacular
and so that actually works
00:09:39.29\00:09:42.82
both of those
forces happen in nature.
00:09:42.83\00:09:45.17
There is--there
are randimitations
00:09:45.18\00:09:46.58
and there is
survival of the fittest. Okay.
00:09:46.59\00:09:49.89
But as a little
child you know I wondered
00:09:49.90\00:09:51.49
were if there
were any limitations
00:09:51.50\00:09:52.94
to this mechanism and there are.
00:09:52.95\00:09:55.35
There are
limitations to the mechanism
00:09:55.36\00:09:56.91
and the limitations
are very interesting.
00:09:56.92\00:09:58.85
The Darwinian
mechanism only works to produce
00:09:58.86\00:10:01.74
what I call very low level
00:10:01.75\00:10:03.36
functional of complexity. Yes.
00:10:03.37\00:10:05.75
Beyond a fairly
well defined line
00:10:05.76\00:10:10.32
the mechanism
simply doesn't work.
00:10:10.33\00:10:11.72
It stalls out and it stalls out
00:10:11.73\00:10:14.16
and what I call in an
exponential manner. Okay.
00:10:14.17\00:10:16.93
So if I can sort of
put some English on this.
00:10:16.94\00:10:20.20
You're speaking scientese.
00:10:20.21\00:10:21.87
If I could sort of
put some English on this,
00:10:21.88\00:10:25.42
you're saying that
there is evolution to a degree
00:10:25.43\00:10:27.95
that is to say the mechanism.
00:10:27.96\00:10:29.99
It doesn't mean
we're endorsing long ages,
00:10:30.00\00:10:31.53
but you're saying
it only can do so much.
00:10:31.54\00:10:34.09
Now explain this to us.
00:10:34.10\00:10:35.79
Give us, is there
something you can give us
00:10:35.80\00:10:37.53
sort of tangible that
you've used great illustration
00:10:37.54\00:10:41.49
that I have seen
before with a scrabble board.
00:10:41.50\00:10:43.44
Right yeah.
Especially when you are trying
00:10:43.45\00:10:46.57
to derive
information from nothing,
00:10:46.58\00:10:48.49
there's two different
ways to drive information,
00:10:48.50\00:10:50.94
starting with something
00:10:50.95\00:10:51.99
and then starting with nothing.
00:10:52.00\00:10:53.26
The scrabble illustration
is starting with nothing.
00:10:53.27\00:10:56.00
So in the first illustration
there is a random sequence
00:10:56.01\00:11:00.56
you just, it kind
of looks random. Okay.
00:11:00.57\00:11:02.31
Would anybody think that
this necessarily had to happen
00:11:02.32\00:11:04.90
deliberately or could
that often happen randomly?
00:11:04.91\00:11:07.32
That looks pretty randomly.
00:11:07.33\00:11:08.38
Pretty random like it. It does.
00:11:08.39\00:11:09.44
You wouldn't
doubt me if I just say
00:11:09.45\00:11:11.17
I threw out those
letter on that scrabble board
00:11:11.18\00:11:13.29
and they just
landed like that. Okay.
00:11:13.30\00:11:14.88
You wouldn't
question that, right. No.
00:11:14.89\00:11:16.26
However in the next
slide you can kind of see
00:11:16.27\00:11:19.37
a little bit of may be
readable English words.
00:11:19.38\00:11:22.91
Okay I see the word I
see pig there. Yes. Cat.
00:11:22.92\00:11:25.95
All right so
would you believe me
00:11:25.96\00:11:27.81
if I said I threw
the scrabble letters
00:11:27.82\00:11:30.39
out a few hundred times
00:11:30.40\00:11:31.74
and this just
happen one of those times.
00:11:31.75\00:11:33.61
Would you believe that?
00:11:33.62\00:11:35.14
A few hundred times or perhaps.
00:11:35.15\00:11:36.45
Because I know you
entrust you may be. No.
00:11:36.46\00:11:39.50
This is obviously lot
different than the one--
00:11:39.51\00:11:41.40
Of course it's not
totally unbelievable
00:11:41.41\00:11:43.15
if I said that all right. Yeah.
00:11:43.16\00:11:44.58
So what about the next
scrabble thing situation?
00:11:44.59\00:11:47.80
Now would you believe
I threw those letters out
00:11:47.81\00:11:50.26
even if you trillion
times and it landed like that.
00:11:50.27\00:11:52.48
No way. Wow.
00:11:52.49\00:11:53.58
Happy Sabbath
God welcomes you all.
00:11:53.59\00:11:55.67
Yeah I gave this is a
ceremonial illustration
00:11:55.68\00:11:57.39
a few Sabbaths ago at my church
00:11:57.40\00:11:59.63
and everybody voted it down.
00:11:59.64\00:12:01.13
No one would believe that.
00:12:01.14\00:12:02.42
But why not it's
because of statistical odds,
00:12:02.43\00:12:05.26
the odds against this happening
00:12:05.27\00:12:06.80
by random chances is
just so remote. Okay.
00:12:06.81\00:12:09.54
Well the same
thing happens actually
00:12:09.55\00:12:11.00
with starting with
meaningful sequences
00:12:11.01\00:12:13.41
like let's say you start
with a three letter word.
00:12:13.42\00:12:15.27
And what are the odds of getting
00:12:15.28\00:12:16.74
another one that's
meaningful in English.
00:12:16.75\00:12:18.68
Okay, okay, because there's 26
00:12:18.69\00:12:20.18
letters in English alphabet.
00:12:20.19\00:12:21.19
Yeah, there's 26
letters in English alphabet.
00:12:21.20\00:12:22.76
So we're talking
about three letters words,
00:12:22.77\00:12:23.89
words like car, pig--
00:12:23.90\00:12:25.68
Cat, bat. Yeah. Okay.
00:12:25.69\00:12:26.78
Whatever so what are the odds.
00:12:26.79\00:12:28.53
Well it is related to
concept of sequence space
00:12:28.54\00:12:31.85
in order to
calculate these odds.
00:12:31.86\00:12:33.08
Sequence space, okay.
00:12:33.09\00:12:34.31
So sequence space is
a space that contains
00:12:34.32\00:12:37.02
all possible words
00:12:37.03\00:12:38.96
or sequences of
a certain length.
00:12:38.97\00:12:40.58
Every possible
option of three letter words
00:12:40.59\00:12:43.18
in the English language. Right.
00:12:43.19\00:12:44.60
Okay. So that's a 26 pair
of three, 17,000 something,
00:12:44.61\00:12:50.44
so the ratio of meaningful
00:12:50.45\00:12:52.42
versus non meaningful English
words in scrabble dictionary
00:12:52.43\00:12:57.34
is ratio of
about one and 18. Okay.
00:12:57.35\00:13:00.56
So let's say you
go-- Something is randomly
00:13:00.57\00:13:01.97
assembled things,
00:13:01.98\00:13:04.13
one time out of every 18 times
00:13:04.14\00:13:05.60
on average you
would have a meaningful
00:13:05.61\00:13:07.29
three letter word. Right so.
00:13:07.30\00:13:08.44
The other 17 you
just have Gobbledygook.
00:13:08.45\00:13:10.46
So what are the odds we
are getting from like cat,
00:13:10.47\00:13:12.41
to hat, to bat, the big
do-- do all the way to dog.
00:13:12.42\00:13:15.46
Well it's
pretty-- pretty reasonable,
00:13:15.47\00:13:17.06
in a reasonable amount of time
00:13:17.07\00:13:18.07
you can get all
the way from cat to dog
00:13:18.08\00:13:20.03
using meaningful
one character mutations
00:13:20.04\00:13:23.07
that changes one
letter at a time--Okay.
00:13:23.08\00:13:25.47
And you can hit on a
new meaningful word. Okay.
00:13:25.48\00:13:28.31
So but what if you
increase the length
00:13:28.32\00:13:30.44
of the word or the sequence.
00:13:30.45\00:13:32.64
What happens to the odds?
00:13:32.65\00:13:34.31
Like let's say we got
the seven letter characters,
00:13:34.32\00:13:36.09
do the odds like
decrease by half.
00:13:36.10\00:13:38.51
No, it probably be
much more than that.
00:13:38.52\00:13:40.28
No, it's an
exponential relationship.
00:13:40.29\00:13:42.42
Do you have a
slide that explains that?
00:13:42.43\00:13:43.90
I think we do
have a slide up here
00:13:43.91\00:13:45.25
so see meaningless
seven letter sequences
00:13:45.26\00:13:47.86
there is eight billion of them.
00:13:47.87\00:13:49.76
And meaningful
there is only 23,000.
00:13:49.77\00:13:51.60
So the ratio is one in 350,000.
00:13:51.61\00:13:54.33
So the ratio is much
different than one in 18.
00:13:54.34\00:13:56.47
So you have to do
this 350,000 times
00:13:56.48\00:13:59.73
to get one word that make sense.
00:13:59.74\00:14:01.94
A seven letter
word. A seven letter,
00:14:01.95\00:14:03.46
or seven letter sequence.
00:14:03.47\00:14:04.69
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
00:14:04.70\00:14:05.92
And those odds keep
going down exponentially. Yeah.
00:14:05.93\00:14:08.68
Well the same thing
happens in living systems,
00:14:08.69\00:14:10.71
because living systems
00:14:10.72\00:14:12.09
are actually
informational systems,
00:14:12.10\00:14:14.16
and I think we have
slides to illustrate this.
00:14:14.17\00:14:16.59
They're actually
comprised of characters of DNA
00:14:16.60\00:14:20.14
which are four letters
00:14:20.15\00:14:21.25
instead of human
English having 26.
00:14:21.26\00:14:24.61
All right DNA
has four characters
00:14:24.62\00:14:26.73
labeled A, T, C and G,
they stand for chemical.
00:14:26.74\00:14:29.12
Amino acids I
think. Nucleic acids.
00:14:29.13\00:14:32.68
Yeah, and so they
stand for these letters
00:14:32.69\00:14:35.29
chemical letters and
the same thing for proteins.
00:14:35.30\00:14:37.36
Proteins stores 20
different amino acids
00:14:37.37\00:14:39.94
and so that's kind
of like an alphabet.
00:14:39.95\00:14:42.64
Well functional proteins
require a minimum number
00:14:42.65\00:14:46.13
of these amino
acids in a specific
00:14:46.14\00:14:47.86
linear sequence.
Wow. Kind of like a word.
00:14:47.87\00:14:49.98
And then they get
folded into a specific
00:14:49.99\00:14:52.38
three
dimensional sequence. Okay.
00:14:52.39\00:14:53.79
That is even more
complex that that.
00:14:53.80\00:14:55.64
Okay. Like a paragraph.
And without this sphere,
00:14:55.65\00:14:57.35
right, and so the
bigger the minimum
00:14:57.36\00:14:59.78
the
exponentially lower the odds,
00:14:59.79\00:15:02.00
that you're just gonna
randomly hit upon that. Yes.
00:15:02.01\00:15:04.23
Starting with something large.
00:15:04.24\00:15:05.54
You see the difference.
Okay, got it, got it.
00:15:05.55\00:15:06.68
And so as you require
as you consider higher
00:15:06.69\00:15:09.48
and higher level systems,
the odds of randomly hitting
00:15:09.49\00:15:12.90
upon that using random
mutations. Lower and lower.
00:15:12.91\00:15:14.90
Drop
exponentially lower and lower
00:15:14.91\00:15:16.56
until if you look at
examples of evolution in action.
00:15:16.57\00:15:20.20
There are none
that require no examples
00:15:20.21\00:15:22.73
of evolution in
action produce any system
00:15:22.74\00:15:24.53
that requires more than 1,000
00:15:24.54\00:15:26.46
specifically
arranged amino acids
00:15:26.47\00:15:28.68
working together
at the same time.
00:15:28.69\00:15:29.94
So there is no in the literature
00:15:29.95\00:15:31.71
there is no
evidence of evolution
00:15:31.72\00:15:33.75
being able to produce function,
00:15:33.76\00:15:35.71
a novel function
beyond a 1,000 amino acid.
00:15:35.72\00:15:40.27
Actually in
literature it doesn't go
00:15:40.28\00:15:41.58
beyond a few hundred,
00:15:41.59\00:15:42.61
but I just draw the
line at the thousand
00:15:42.62\00:15:44.13
because that's
very clear distinction
00:15:44.14\00:15:46.59
where evolution clearly
has stalled out completely
00:15:46.60\00:15:49.17
by then in an observable time.
00:15:49.18\00:15:51.05
Okay, so put
something visual on that.
00:15:51.06\00:15:55.87
What is-okay, so a simple cell,
00:15:55.88\00:15:57.98
take a cell or a
bacteria something
00:15:57.99\00:15:59.71
how many amino
acids would it take
00:15:59.72\00:16:02.26
to have say a cell.
00:16:02.27\00:16:04.31
Well simple cell probably,
00:16:04.32\00:16:07.70
there is actually
been studies on this,
00:16:07.71\00:16:09.33
what does it take to code
00:16:09.34\00:16:10.38
for a simple cell
all at the same time.
00:16:10.39\00:16:12.36
And it's enormous,
you probably need 18,000
00:16:12.37\00:16:17.04
base pairs and
proteins then to decode that,
00:16:17.05\00:16:20.37
and it's just enormous I mean.
00:16:20.38\00:16:21.89
So far beyond this 1,000.
00:16:21.90\00:16:24.53
Right, every single living
cell system has many systems
00:16:24.54\00:16:29.15
that require more
than a 1,000 by far.
00:16:29.16\00:16:31.27
And to get a system
if you actually sit down
00:16:31.28\00:16:33.65
and do the
statistics even starting
00:16:33.66\00:16:35.63
with existing
gene pools starting
00:16:35.64\00:16:37.31
with existing
systems to get a novel one,
00:16:37.32\00:16:39.57
that's qualitative
unique that requires
00:16:39.58\00:16:42.02
a minimum of more than a 1,000,
00:16:42.03\00:16:43.65
it would take trillions
00:16:43.66\00:16:44.86
and trillions of
years of time on average.
00:16:44.87\00:16:47.07
Trillions and
trillions of years. Yes.
00:16:47.08\00:16:49.00
It's even by
the most the longest
00:16:49.01\00:16:52.48
estimates the earth is what.
00:16:52.49\00:16:54.84
Four and half billion years.
Four and half billion years,
00:16:54.85\00:16:56.45
so that's not even
approaching the trillions,
00:16:56.46\00:16:58.35
I mean universe is only--
00:16:58.36\00:16:59.38
People think a few billion years
00:16:59.39\00:17:01.74
so that's so long
anything can happen in that,
00:17:01.75\00:17:03.98
but if you
actually you do the math
00:17:03.99\00:17:05.73
a few billion years
is a drop in the bucket.
00:17:05.74\00:17:07.85
It doesn't come close. Wow.
00:17:07.86\00:17:09.09
If it takes longer for
the chances of the thing
00:17:09.10\00:17:12.57
to happen then time
will actually existed
00:17:12.58\00:17:14.78
then technically
it cannot happen.
00:17:14.79\00:17:17.07
Yeah, at least reasonably
it doesn't seem rational
00:17:17.08\00:17:19.25
that it could happen in them.
00:17:19.26\00:17:20.28
But this is been
proved in laboratory, right.
00:17:20.29\00:17:21.94
They can but human
beings can get in there right
00:17:21.95\00:17:24.41
and they can sort of
make it happen, right.
00:17:24.42\00:17:26.11
Well human beings can
produce much higher levels
00:17:26.12\00:17:28.21
of complexity than it can happen
00:17:28.22\00:17:29.60
by this mechanism
of random mutation.
00:17:29.61\00:17:31.90
But I'm saying
genetically can we start
00:17:31.91\00:17:33.79
doing this can we move around.
00:17:33.80\00:17:34.81
Yes, the humans are
now manipulated in genetics
00:17:34.82\00:17:36.70
much far beyond the
1,000 amino acid level.
00:17:36.71\00:17:39.16
But that shows it takes
intelligence to do it. Right.
00:17:39.17\00:17:41.09
If we just do it randomly
00:17:41.10\00:17:42.45
which is all
that typical evolution
00:17:42.46\00:17:44.92
can give us Darwinian evolution.
00:17:44.93\00:17:45.97
If you base your
selection mechanism
00:17:45.98\00:17:48.19
based on function alone
00:17:48.20\00:17:49.40
without specifically picking
out the underline genetics,
00:17:49.41\00:17:54.11
even humans that
select based only on function
00:17:54.12\00:17:56.55
like human breeders for example.
00:17:56.56\00:17:58.13
Even as a breeder. We
breed a dog or breed a horse.
00:17:58.14\00:17:59.93
Right, even as a
breeder a human breeder
00:17:59.94\00:18:02.24
cannot change a dog
based on breeding alone
00:18:02.25\00:18:04.59
and from a dog to a cat
00:18:04.60\00:18:06.11
or any other type of
creature besides a dog.
00:18:06.12\00:18:09.30
It's the selection mechanism
as this is a problem. Yeah.
00:18:09.31\00:18:12.00
If you only base in
your selection based on
00:18:12.01\00:18:13.93
what you see
express as the fino-type.
00:18:13.94\00:18:17.42
You're not going to
produce anything else.
00:18:17.43\00:18:19.16
So let me try and see if
I can summarize this here.
00:18:19.17\00:18:21.60
We ask a
question why not believe
00:18:21.61\00:18:23.07
in Darwinian
evolution and I am hearing
00:18:23.08\00:18:24.87
sort of two answers here,
00:18:24.88\00:18:26.21
one is we got
this information issue,
00:18:26.22\00:18:28.72
information content, you know,
00:18:28.73\00:18:30.03
versus the throwing
out on a scrabble board
00:18:30.04\00:18:32.07
versus the
happy Sabbath everyone
00:18:32.08\00:18:34.08
God welcomes you etcetera.
00:18:34.09\00:18:35.48
That's number one and number two
00:18:35.49\00:18:36.84
it's that the
mechanism can't get that.
00:18:36.85\00:18:39.01
The mechanism doesn't do it.
00:18:39.02\00:18:40.14
Doesn't get us that
level of complexity.
00:18:40.15\00:18:42.29
Right because mechanism
once you get to higher levels,
00:18:42.30\00:18:44.86
that the gaps
between functional systems
00:18:44.87\00:18:46.75
and sequence base
start to grow in a linear way
00:18:46.76\00:18:50.09
and as the distance increases
linear in sequence base
00:18:50.10\00:18:53.14
the time
required for the mechanism
00:18:53.15\00:18:54.86
to get there
increases exponentially.
00:18:54.87\00:18:56.80
We can't do it.
Because it's a random walk.
00:18:56.81\00:18:58.21
You know, this makes me think
00:18:58.22\00:18:59.22
of like if I am
a trout fisherman,
00:18:59.23\00:19:01.72
so I love to go
walking up the streams
00:19:01.73\00:19:03.59
and fly fishing and sometimes
00:19:03.60\00:19:04.98
when you don't want to
get right, you will try
00:19:04.99\00:19:06.19
to just jump from
dry rock to dry rock
00:19:06.20\00:19:08.20
across the river
which is possible. Right.
00:19:08.21\00:19:10.70
As long as those rocks
are- Short. Reasonably close.
00:19:10.71\00:19:13.62
But what if the next rock
was 16 miles away I can't.
00:19:13.63\00:19:16.90
I know you are surprised
00:19:16.91\00:19:18.59
to hear that I
can't jump 16 miles.
00:19:18.60\00:19:20.47
And you are blind on top it,
00:19:20.48\00:19:23.63
because natural
selection only selects
00:19:23.64\00:19:25.89
those things that
work now. It doesn't select
00:19:25.90\00:19:28.32
for anything that doesn't work.
00:19:28.33\00:19:29.37
That may work in
the future. Right,
00:19:29.38\00:19:30.38
that may work in the future
or doesn't work right now.
00:19:30.39\00:19:32.79
There is a like what's
the difference between--
00:19:32.80\00:19:34.69
Now that's important and forget
00:19:34.70\00:19:35.85
because that's an
important point. Yeah.
00:19:35.86\00:19:37.33
Because the
prima-facie is something
00:19:37.34\00:19:40.22
is that you can
cross these boundaries
00:19:40.23\00:19:42.81
I mean a dog or it
may be a short head dog
00:19:42.82\00:19:45.45
or long head
dog. A short leg dog
00:19:45.46\00:19:47.51
or long hair dog,
but it's gonna be a dog,
00:19:47.52\00:19:49.52
its not gonna be a
cat. That cannot happen.
00:19:49.53\00:19:52.02
And it's not directional.
00:19:52.03\00:19:53.08
And what people often confuse
00:19:53.09\00:19:54.49
in what Darwin himself confused
00:19:54.50\00:19:55.97
is that these
different breeds of dogs
00:19:55.98\00:19:57.82
and cats weren't
really based at least largely
00:19:57.83\00:20:01.02
to significant degree
anyway on Darwinian evolution.
00:20:01.03\00:20:04.07
They were actually
based on what's called
00:20:04.08\00:20:05.65
Mendelian variation
to a significant degree.
00:20:05.66\00:20:08.21
Gregor Mendel.
Father of modern genetics
00:20:08.22\00:20:09.96
In fact, its kind of
like preloaded information,
00:20:09.97\00:20:12.39
the information
for all the different
00:20:12.40\00:20:13.63
dog breeds was largely present
00:20:13.64\00:20:15.36
in the original dog
kind. Yeah. The wolf.
00:20:15.37\00:20:18.35
The capacity for
Chihuahua and the capacity
00:20:18.36\00:20:20.91
for Great Dane and the capacity
00:20:20.92\00:20:22.34
for a Golden Retriever
all the data is in there.
00:20:22.35\00:20:25.20
All in the same
original dog gene pool.
00:20:25.21\00:20:26.59
The breeder is
just teasing that out.
00:20:26.60\00:20:28.57
Right, the
Chihuahua and the Great Dane
00:20:28.58\00:20:30.65
are just a different expressions
00:20:30.66\00:20:32.45
of the same
static unchanging doggie
00:20:32.46\00:20:35.36
gene pool of options.
00:20:35.37\00:20:36.82
They're just
different expression
00:20:36.83\00:20:37.90
of the different
portions of the pond.
00:20:37.91\00:20:40.62
Okay, so then in
answer to the question,
00:20:40.63\00:20:43.05
why not believe in
Darwinian evolution.
00:20:43.06\00:20:44.43
What I'm hearing you say
00:20:44.44\00:20:45.88
is the mechanism doesn't work.
00:20:45.89\00:20:47.28
It can't get us, its
not delivering the goods.
00:20:47.29\00:20:49.96
It won't, it just
doesn't work well.
00:20:49.97\00:20:51.69
It's not sufficient.
00:20:51.70\00:20:52.76
Okay, so yeah you
keeping saying it works,
00:20:52.77\00:20:54.54
so you're a
pathologist and you know its--
00:20:54.55\00:20:57.12
Like antibiotic resistance.
00:20:57.13\00:20:58.14
I was just gonna say what about,
00:20:58.15\00:20:59.83
okay so something
becomes resistant to antibiotic.
00:20:59.84\00:21:01.91
I'm glad you're
gonna say that. Yeah
00:21:01.92\00:21:03.46
Yeah. We headed
there. I was gonna say that.
00:21:03.47\00:21:04.83
Antibiotic
resistance is a real example
00:21:04.84\00:21:07.14
of evolution in action.
00:21:07.15\00:21:08.14
Darwinian
evolution is to resolve
00:21:08.15\00:21:09.91
the random mutations
and natural selection,
00:21:09.92\00:21:12.28
and it happens very rapidly.
00:21:12.29\00:21:14.17
But the way most
antibiotics works
00:21:14.18\00:21:16.56
is on a very low
level of complexity.
00:21:16.57\00:21:18.37
For example,
here you have a target
00:21:18.38\00:21:21.21
and an antibiotic
and here you have the--
00:21:21.22\00:21:25.50
I'm starting in
bacteria well say
00:21:25.51\00:21:26.63
and here you have the antibiotic
00:21:26.64\00:21:27.67
that comes long and
attacks the target, right.
00:21:27.68\00:21:30.49
Let's say the
target and the antibiotic
00:21:30.50\00:21:32.62
and the bacteria as mutation
and it sticks out of finger.
00:21:32.63\00:21:36.16
Now the antibiotic comes along
00:21:36.17\00:21:38.64
and it can't bind as
well as it did before.
00:21:38.65\00:21:42.10
So also with one single mutation
00:21:42.11\00:21:44.44
little point mutation
it can't bind as well,
00:21:44.45\00:21:46.52
and you gain resistance.
00:21:46.53\00:21:48.16
The odds you gonna
get a little mutation
00:21:48.17\00:21:50.00
like that are very good.
00:21:50.01\00:21:51.86
Because it's a simple thing,
00:21:51.87\00:21:52.99
it's like a three
letter word. Right.
00:21:53.00\00:21:54.66
It's not a big letter word.
00:21:54.67\00:21:55.97
It's actually a
disruption of a interaction
00:21:55.98\00:21:58.53
that was pre-established. Yeah.
00:21:58.54\00:21:59.99
It's easy to destroy
something like humpty dumpty
00:22:00.00\00:22:02.66
that was already working before,
00:22:02.67\00:22:04.41
because there's so many
ways to break humpty dumpty,
00:22:04.42\00:22:06.35
but try to put it
back together again. Yeah.
00:22:06.36\00:22:08.75
There is all
different situation.
00:22:08.76\00:22:09.77
I have an example for that.
00:22:09.78\00:22:11.12
Super rat. Super what?
00:22:11.13\00:22:13.18
Rat, in New York City,
they have a super rat. Really.
00:22:13.19\00:22:16.40
They've used so
much DDT and pesticides
00:22:16.41\00:22:18.60
that there is a
rat now that is--
00:22:18.61\00:22:20.50
Is resistant to pesticides.
00:22:20.51\00:22:22.08
He is resistant to pesticides.
00:22:22.09\00:22:23.21
Right really,
does it wear a cape?
00:22:23.22\00:22:25.70
It doesn't fly to scare.
00:22:25.71\00:22:26.95
Praise the Lord,
but super its evolution
00:22:26.96\00:22:29.97
in a very minor,
he's still a rat.
00:22:29.98\00:22:31.97
He's just resistant
to those kinds of things
00:22:31.98\00:22:33.69
that we have been
using to kill of rats
00:22:33.70\00:22:34.91
for so many, many years.
00:22:34.92\00:22:35.94
And most of these
forms of evolution
00:22:35.95\00:22:37.49
are the result of the laws
of pre-established function.
00:22:37.50\00:22:39.69
They are actually
examples of evolution
00:22:39.70\00:22:41.81
that they are the
result of a true gain
00:22:41.82\00:22:43.30
in function that
wasn't there before.
00:22:43.31\00:22:44.82
Its not the result
00:22:44.83\00:22:45.94
Iof something
else breaking down.
00:22:45.95\00:22:47.50
But that's got to
be something simple.
00:22:47.51\00:22:49.00
They are simple,
but they only happen
00:22:49.01\00:22:50.63
up to a few hundred characters.
00:22:50.64\00:22:52.59
Yeah, so there
is nothing, nothing,
00:22:52.60\00:22:55.41
nothing in all of
the vast literature of,
00:22:55.42\00:22:59.82
you know, pro Darwinian biology
00:22:59.83\00:23:02.18
and other disciplines,
that says in a laboratory
00:23:02.19\00:23:06.66
we can go beyond a
thousand specifically arranged
00:23:06.67\00:23:09.01
amino acids has not happened.
00:23:09.02\00:23:10.34
No, there are
assertions to that effect,
00:23:10.35\00:23:12.21
but none of these
assertions are demonstrated
00:23:12.22\00:23:14.25
by actual fact like
in laboratory experiment,
00:23:14.26\00:23:17.92
nor are they demonstrated
by statistical analysis.
00:23:17.93\00:23:20.45
If you ask for either one,
00:23:20.46\00:23:22.03
somebody would
just call you stupid,
00:23:22.04\00:23:23.35
that you are
ignorant, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:23.36\00:23:24.66
But no one will
actually give you the data.
00:23:24.67\00:23:28.60
Okay, so then lets transition
00:23:28.61\00:23:30.31
to our fourth question which is.
00:23:30.32\00:23:31.93
What is the
greatest creative act?
00:23:31.94\00:23:34.30
We've asked why
believe in creation?
00:23:34.31\00:23:36.11
Why believe in a
literal six day creation?
00:23:36.12\00:23:38.22
Why not believe in
Darwinian evolution?
00:23:38.23\00:23:40.36
And then now what is
the greatest creative act?
00:23:40.37\00:23:44.78
In that line, I
hope you don't mind
00:23:44.79\00:23:46.88
if I read a little
quote from a very wise woman.
00:23:46.89\00:23:50.25
Sure I love to hear.
00:23:50.26\00:23:51.72
She says the greatest,
I happen to agree with.
00:23:51.73\00:23:55.09
"The conversion
of the human soul
00:23:55.10\00:23:56.66
is of no little consequence
it is the greatest miracle
00:23:56.67\00:23:59.48
performed by divine power." Wow.
00:23:59.49\00:24:02.07
And it happens to be a miracle
00:24:02.08\00:24:03.70
that you can
experience inside yourself
00:24:03.71\00:24:05.54
that you don't need science for.
00:24:05.55\00:24:07.78
Like you can say
do I need science
00:24:07.79\00:24:09.57
to tell me I
like vanilla icecream?
00:24:09.58\00:24:11.18
Do I need to test it?
00:24:11.19\00:24:12.23
Or do I have pre-review
right anything like that.
00:24:12.24\00:24:15.69
No I just know it inside,
00:24:15.70\00:24:16.90
no one needs to-- You
know intrude with you.
00:24:16.91\00:24:17.95
No one can argue with
me, no you don't, right.
00:24:17.96\00:24:20.54
Same thing with this
conversion experience
00:24:20.55\00:24:23.28
you know it inside yourself.
00:24:23.29\00:24:25.18
You can experience divine touch
00:24:25.19\00:24:27.19
in your heart
and a changed life.
00:24:27.20\00:24:28.79
And she says here
it's the greatest miracle.
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.90
It is the greatest, it's greater
00:24:31.91\00:24:33.19
than creating the universe.
00:24:33.20\00:24:34.27
It's greater than
creating life itself.
00:24:34.28\00:24:37.05
The conversion
of the human heart,
00:24:37.06\00:24:39.10
because what did it cost
God to produce this miracle.
00:24:39.11\00:24:42.80
Everything. Wow.
00:24:42.81\00:24:43.92
Right, it cost, He emptied
heaven to do it. Precisely.
00:24:43.93\00:24:47.72
So that you know what just comes
00:24:47.73\00:24:49.73
screaming to my mind
00:24:49.74\00:24:50.97
of course is
Second Corinthians 5:17.
00:24:50.98\00:24:53.32
"You know if
any man be in Christ
00:24:53.33\00:24:54.77
he is a new creature."
00:24:54.78\00:24:56.15
New creation all
things are passed away
00:24:56.16\00:24:57.92
behold all
things will be come new.
00:24:57.93\00:24:59.56
You mind if I do a
little aside here. No, for sure.
00:24:59.57\00:25:01.98
It's kind of like a butterfly.
00:25:01.99\00:25:03.61
Do you know that the caterpillar
00:25:03.62\00:25:05.51
actually is two
creatures in one?
00:25:05.52\00:25:08.79
It has the cells in
it that will liquefy
00:25:08.80\00:25:13.43
the caterpillar turn into sludge
00:25:13.44\00:25:15.63
completely
liquefy the caterpillar.
00:25:15.64\00:25:17.32
Caterpillar doesn't like
this liquefication process.
00:25:17.33\00:25:19.79
I bet not. And
it tries to attack
00:25:19.80\00:25:21.13
these cells with its
immune system and destroy them,
00:25:21.14\00:25:23.54
but these
overcome the caterpillar
00:25:23.55\00:25:25.58
and liquefy it
and use the nutrients
00:25:25.59\00:25:28.10
of the caterpillar to
produce the butterfly.
00:25:28.11\00:25:30.47
And actually the butterfly
is a entirely new creature
00:25:30.48\00:25:33.30
nothing at all
like the caterpillar.
00:25:33.31\00:25:34.97
No caterpillar parts
are in the butterfly.
00:25:34.98\00:25:36.88
So we use to say
like I would have said
00:25:36.89\00:25:39.25
the caterpillar
becomes the butterfly
00:25:39.26\00:25:41.60
but it's the butterfly
cells are in the caterpillar
00:25:41.61\00:25:45.65
and then the
caterpillar is-- No more.
00:25:45.66\00:25:49.42
Yeah, it is a
truly new creature. Wow.
00:25:49.43\00:25:52.23
So it's kind of an illustration.
00:25:52.24\00:25:53.96
Very powerful. We lay of the old
00:25:53.97\00:25:56.39
and we put on the new
00:25:56.40\00:25:57.51
and we step into
the power of Christ.
00:25:57.52\00:26:00.73
And I love what you said there,
00:26:00.74\00:26:01.84
that we don't need to science
00:26:01.85\00:26:03.44
doesn't tells us
that. God tells us that.
00:26:03.45\00:26:05.45
It reminds me there
of Romans Chapter 8,
00:26:05.46\00:26:07.03
where Paul says the
spirit of God bears witness
00:26:07.04\00:26:10.27
with our spirits
that we are the sons
00:26:10.28\00:26:12.03
and daughters of God.
00:26:12.04\00:26:13.25
The spirit comes and
in Christ, our Father.
00:26:13.26\00:26:14.97
I mean I know that
intuitively you know
00:26:14.98\00:26:16.63
that C.A. knows that and
our viewers can know that.
00:26:16.64\00:26:19.34
And even those people
who haven't yet recognized
00:26:19.35\00:26:21.63
God are searching for Him. Amen.
00:26:21.64\00:26:23.12
Because I think God
has put an empty spot
00:26:23.13\00:26:25.40
in each one of us
that we research to fill
00:26:25.41\00:26:27.85
and it's never filled
until we find God. Beautiful.
00:26:27.86\00:26:30.73
Yeah, praise God.
00:26:30.74\00:26:31.97
Well there we are,
there we have it C.A.
00:26:31.98\00:26:34.19
I'm thrilled we
have been able to--
00:26:34.20\00:26:35.40
I think we got some questions
we sort of made it through.
00:26:35.41\00:26:37.51
Oh, we did, we did.
00:26:37.52\00:26:38.74
I like the idea the notion
that as great as creation is
00:26:38.75\00:26:44.03
and that is the groundswell
of our argument tonight
00:26:44.04\00:26:47.43
and what's been
taught in the schools,
00:26:47.44\00:26:49.31
a greater testament to the God
00:26:49.32\00:26:52.97
that we serve
is recreation. Yes.
00:26:52.98\00:26:55.08
Yeah, praise God. I love it.
00:26:55.09\00:26:57.18
Yeah. Absolutely. You
can argue about creation,
00:26:57.19\00:26:59.77
but you can't argue
about recreation. Amen.
00:26:59.78\00:27:02.84
Praise the Lord.
We've got questions
00:27:02.85\00:27:04.42
that have been
coming from dears,
00:27:04.43\00:27:05.40
we're bringing
questions all evening.
00:27:05.41\00:27:07.97
Someone wants us to
wrestle with a little bit.
00:27:07.98\00:27:10.26
Good doctor micro
versus macro evolution
00:27:10.27\00:27:13.13
and we actually kind of
touch on that a little bit
00:27:13.14\00:27:14.95
but and the
irreducibly complex systems.
00:27:14.96\00:27:18.76
Yeah I love that because,
00:27:18.77\00:27:21.30
well, in a certain
way I don't actually like
00:27:21.31\00:27:23.15
the term micro and
macro, because to me
00:27:23.16\00:27:25.67
evolution the
mechanism is on our continuum.
00:27:25.68\00:27:29.65
Evolution works at
a-- what I call low level
00:27:29.66\00:27:32.07
of complexity below
a thousand amino acids.
00:27:32.08\00:27:33.89
And if you want you can
call that the micro level.
00:27:33.90\00:27:36.20
But it doesn't work
beyond that which if you want
00:27:36.21\00:27:38.08
you can call that macro level.
00:27:38.09\00:27:39.73
Irreducible complex
systems basically mean,
00:27:39.74\00:27:43.82
Bay he came up
with this. Michael Bay.
00:27:43.83\00:27:45.71
Michael Bay, he
came up with this term
00:27:45.72\00:27:47.07
irreducible complexity.
00:27:47.08\00:27:48.50
Basically it means
if you have a system
00:27:48.51\00:27:50.27
and you take a piece away.
00:27:50.28\00:27:51.64
Every system
requires a certain minimum
00:27:51.65\00:27:53.71
before it will work to
do a certain type of job.
00:27:53.72\00:27:55.91
If you take that minimum
part away it doesn't work
00:27:55.92\00:27:59.03
at all to do that
particular function.
00:27:59.04\00:28:01.54
Usually the problem
with irreducible complexity
00:28:01.55\00:28:03.85
arguments is that
someone will show you
00:28:03.86\00:28:05.70
an example of evolution action
00:28:05.71\00:28:07.01
and say hey this
system is irreducible complex
00:28:07.02\00:28:09.56
and yet it evolves,
00:28:09.57\00:28:10.87
like Kenneth Miller
does that all the time.
00:28:10.88\00:28:12.48
He is the famous
biologist from Brown University.
00:28:12.49\00:28:15.52
But the problem is
that when they show you
00:28:15.53\00:28:17.52
an example of irreducible
complex system evolving
00:28:17.53\00:28:20.38
it's a low level system.
00:28:20.39\00:28:22.51
Just because this
system is three letters word
00:28:22.52\00:28:24.42
it doesn't mean its
not irreducible complex
00:28:24.43\00:28:26.85
it still requires
those three letters,
00:28:26.86\00:28:28.62
but it doesn't also
mean its very complex,
00:28:28.63\00:28:30.27
its still a
simple three letter word.
00:28:30.28\00:28:32.19
So irreducible
systems can evolve,
00:28:32.20\00:28:34.54
but not beyond low
levels of complexity
00:28:34.55\00:28:36.21
or irreducible complexity.
00:28:36.22\00:28:37.89
Okay, great. If
that makes any sense.
00:28:37.90\00:28:39.32
It makes great
sense. It does, it does.
00:28:39.33\00:28:41.29
The writer of this say to say
00:28:41.30\00:28:44.48
how do you do David from
your churches in Michigan,
00:28:44.49\00:28:46.70
this is your
old stomping ground.
00:28:46.71\00:28:47.88
Oh yeah I want to give hello.
00:28:47.89\00:28:49.39
So they want to say
hello Christian Horded.
00:28:49.40\00:28:51.84
Oh of course. He is one
of my old punk rock friends.
00:28:51.85\00:28:55.60
I'm not
kidding, I'm not kidding,
00:28:55.61\00:28:56.75
he is one of my
old punk rock friends
00:28:56.76\00:28:57.94
and now he is the
Seventh-day Adventist minister.
00:28:57.95\00:28:59.34
Oh praise God. Absolutely.
00:28:59.35\00:29:00.67
Have you done
that to several people.
00:29:00.68\00:29:02.47
Well, you know, I
didn't but the Lord did it.
00:29:02.48\00:29:06.54
I wouldn't take any
credit. But we even try.
00:29:06.55\00:29:08.78
James from Washington writes
00:29:08.79\00:29:09.78
do you believe in
that the universe existed
00:29:09.79\00:29:12.53
before the six days of
creation of earth and why?
00:29:12.54\00:29:15.77
It's your belief
so you can't be wrong.
00:29:15.78\00:29:18.40
Now I might get in a
little hot water over this.
00:29:18.41\00:29:20.70
I don't, I don't really
want to argue this point
00:29:20.71\00:29:22.96
to people who strongly disagree,
00:29:22.97\00:29:25.19
because I don't carry
a strong burden for this.
00:29:25.20\00:29:27.14
But personally I do believe
00:29:27.15\00:29:28.55
that the universe did exist
before the creation of week.
00:29:28.56\00:29:31.16
I believe I am kind
of what I would call
00:29:31.17\00:29:32.80
a young life creationist.
00:29:32.81\00:29:34.00
I believe the creation of week
00:29:34.01\00:29:35.56
described
happenings for just this earth,
00:29:35.57\00:29:39.33
and that because in Job, it says
00:29:39.34\00:29:41.33
"That the sons of
God saying together."
00:29:41.34\00:29:43.21
"For joy at
creation." At the creation.
00:29:43.22\00:29:45.08
I don't think
that's particularly new.
00:29:45.09\00:29:46.09
And so where did
the sons of God live?
00:29:46.10\00:29:48.47
To me it strongly suggests
00:29:48.48\00:29:50.42
that there was some
place our universe here
00:29:50.43\00:29:53.20
before creation of
life on this planet.
00:29:53.21\00:29:55.60
I don't find that at
least bit controversy.
00:29:55.61\00:29:57.11
No, no, no, I've a good friend
00:29:57.12\00:29:58.44
my eye doc for many, many years.
00:29:58.45\00:29:59.63
His Father is a Rabbi, and
when he's playing with my eyes,
00:29:59.64\00:30:01.94
we talk theology.
00:30:01.95\00:30:03.76
And it is his belief and classic
00:30:03.77\00:30:05.76
Hebrew believed that
Genesis 1 picks it up here
00:30:05.77\00:30:09.20
this earth given with what
we are and what we have in.
00:30:09.21\00:30:12.07
and I find that
consistent with it.
00:30:12.08\00:30:13.45
Because we're
told that the rebellion
00:30:13.46\00:30:14.85
in heaven occurred
before the creation of life
00:30:14.86\00:30:17.04
on this earth. Yeah.
00:30:17.05\00:30:18.27
And so there is
something already there.
00:30:18.28\00:30:19.50
Something was rebelling.
Yeah, something was rebelling,
00:30:19.51\00:30:20.85
yeah, something going on.
00:30:20.86\00:30:22.81
And something they
fought over which was the--
00:30:22.82\00:30:24.60
creation of the
earth. I agree with that.
00:30:24.61\00:30:25.61
At least we're having
part in that creation.
00:30:25.62\00:30:26.84
Completely agree.
So the stuff was there.
00:30:26.85\00:30:29.29
Let's see
00:30:29.30\00:30:31.25
what resources are available
to prove creationism online?
00:30:31.26\00:30:35.45
They may get this DVD
but what else is out there.
00:30:35.46\00:30:37.57
Okay, well, let
me answer this one
00:30:37.58\00:30:39.47
because Dr. Pitman
will be way too gracious
00:30:39.48\00:30:41.54
way too differential and humble
00:30:41.55\00:30:44.73
that Dr. Pitman has
a marvelous website.
00:30:44.74\00:30:47.81
detectingdesign.com great title.
00:30:47.82\00:30:51.50
Great title detectingdesgin.com
00:30:51.51\00:30:53.85
I have spent
hours on that website
00:30:53.86\00:30:55.77
reading and I've recommended it
00:30:55.78\00:30:57.82
what I suppose
countless, countless times.
00:30:57.83\00:31:00.43
And I just want to recommend
it to the viewing audience,
00:31:00.44\00:31:02.88
to you of course as well CA.
00:31:02.89\00:31:04.45
sometimes it can
be little technical
00:31:04.46\00:31:05.79
I mean just to be
totally transparent.
00:31:05.80\00:31:08.19
For some it will
be little technical.
00:31:08.20\00:31:09.46
I am always sort of nudging Sean
00:31:09.47\00:31:11.05
saying Sean, you know, okay,
you can have a sort of scientist
00:31:11.06\00:31:15.02
but give to us
in English as well.
00:31:15.03\00:31:17.04
But he does a good job of that
00:31:17.05\00:31:18.98
at times I think
there are some--at times.
00:31:18.99\00:31:21.81
Some of the stuff is-- I
mean let's just be honest
00:31:21.82\00:31:23.38
some things cannot be--
00:31:23.39\00:31:25.09
Well, largely the website
started out as my own thoughts
00:31:25.10\00:31:29.14
and notes from myself
and then people told me
00:31:29.15\00:31:30.98
well, you know you should put
it out there for public viewing.
00:31:30.99\00:31:33.51
Other people might be interested
00:31:33.52\00:31:35.16
and so yeah, some
of it is very technical
00:31:35.17\00:31:37.82
but other parts of
it are more readable.
00:31:37.83\00:31:39.93
Oh definitely.
Most of it I'd say.
00:31:39.94\00:31:41.54
And I should tell you that
today when we were on the plane.
00:31:41.55\00:31:44.61
I was saying to Sean
00:31:44.62\00:31:45.96
I believe what was the
voice of the Holy Spirit
00:31:45.97\00:31:47.72
speaking through
me to you by the way
00:31:47.73\00:31:49.52
start writing books
Start writing books,
00:31:49.53\00:31:52.06
start writing accessible books.
00:31:52.07\00:31:54.27
And yeah, but go to
detecting design.com
00:31:54.28\00:31:57.77
a fantastic resource
that you can steer anybody to,
00:31:57.78\00:32:01.58
I mean you get
hundreds and thousands of hits
00:32:01.59\00:32:04.11
on that website.
00:32:04.12\00:32:05.51
Many people who are
antagonistic to your position
00:32:05.52\00:32:07.74
but who say this is some--
At least worth talking about.
00:32:07.75\00:32:11.91
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:11.92\00:32:12.99
But there is also a lot
of other websites too as well
00:32:13.00\00:32:15.81
and I list a lot of
those on the website as well.
00:32:15.82\00:32:17.40
There are some
links on that. Yeah.
00:32:17.41\00:32:18.68
That sort of dove
tells into guess question,
00:32:18.69\00:32:20.80
she says I am a
student at a secular school
00:32:20.81\00:32:23.00
have many times been reprimanded
00:32:23.01\00:32:24.68
from my presenting creation
00:32:24.69\00:32:26.13
in my scholarly
papers or presentation.
00:32:26.14\00:32:28.52
Can you give me a
couple of references
00:32:28.53\00:32:31.03
from other
doctors such as yourself?
00:32:31.04\00:32:32.82
That I can quote
for this purpose.
00:32:32.83\00:32:34.40
I suspect there is
some of that on your--
00:32:34.41\00:32:37.20
Yeah, Author Chadwick,
Chadwick is a great resource
00:32:37.21\00:32:41.25
and so is Leander Brown,
00:32:41.26\00:32:42.34
he has published a lot of papers
00:32:42.35\00:32:43.42
in mainstream
literature on this topic
00:32:43.43\00:32:45.92
especially dealing with Geology.
00:32:45.93\00:32:48.92
Ariel Roth, he has
written several books
00:32:48.93\00:32:51.48
that are very nice to read
and he has lots of references.
00:32:51.49\00:32:55.14
So there is a lot
of resources out there.
00:32:55.15\00:32:57.20
Yeah, yeah,
interesting question.
00:32:57.21\00:32:59.44
And you can just email
you right through the website.
00:32:59.45\00:33:01.63
Right, and I can give
them a lot more references.
00:33:01.64\00:33:03.57
Great. Yeah, yeah.
00:33:03.58\00:33:05.74
The thought comes to my mind
00:33:05.75\00:33:06.90
regarding the literal
six day kind of Genesis.
00:33:06.91\00:33:09.06
Genesis in the earthly cycle.
00:33:09.07\00:33:11.55
We get our
calculation for the year
00:33:11.56\00:33:14.41
from the earth orbiting the sun.
00:33:14.42\00:33:16.21
The month is set
roughly by the moon's orbit.
00:33:16.22\00:33:18.76
Our day is
rotational those on its axis
00:33:18.77\00:33:20.97
but where is
there any scientific
00:33:20.98\00:33:22.65
or astronomical evidence
for the literal seven day week?
00:33:22.66\00:33:26.05
That's a funny thing.
00:33:26.06\00:33:27.13
It used to be that
there wasn't, right,
00:33:27.14\00:33:28.71
but lately that turns out
that there's been investigations
00:33:28.72\00:33:32.10
that those who have tried to go
on other types of weekly cycles
00:33:32.11\00:33:34.72
like a ten day
week or a five day week.
00:33:34.73\00:33:36.81
They don't do as well
mentally or physically.
00:33:36.82\00:33:39.43
It seems to be
like almost a biorhythm
00:33:39.44\00:33:41.40
the seven day cycle. Yeah.
00:33:41.41\00:33:42.72
So in some
sense there is recent,
00:33:42.73\00:33:45.36
fairly recent evidence
that may there is such a cycle
00:33:45.37\00:33:48.49
as seven day cycle
00:33:48.50\00:33:49.83
And I just read an
article not a too long ago
00:33:49.84\00:33:51.31
on a secular news journal
00:33:51.32\00:33:53.06
that basically
was the secular person
00:33:53.07\00:33:55.01
who was starting
to keep the Sabbath.
00:33:55.02\00:33:56.59
Not for any
religious reasons at all,
00:33:56.60\00:33:58.62
but just because
there was this evidence
00:33:58.63\00:34:01.53
that she had been exposed to.
00:34:01.54\00:34:02.54
So she was
basically making the case
00:34:02.55\00:34:03.77
for the fact
that the human system
00:34:03.78\00:34:06.36
operates best on
a seven day cycle.
00:34:06.37\00:34:09.32
Especially when you
take one of those days off
00:34:09.33\00:34:11.34
and you devote it to religious.
00:34:11.35\00:34:12.60
Absolutely. And the
thing I thought to myself
00:34:12.61\00:34:14.18
its looking you
right in the face,
00:34:14.19\00:34:15.52
you know, why,
why should that be?
00:34:15.53\00:34:17.31
All right, you start
to focus on something
00:34:17.32\00:34:19.30
outside of yourself. Yeah.
00:34:19.31\00:34:20.55
The rest of the six
days you are working,
00:34:20.56\00:34:22.39
your focus on your
family, your money,
00:34:22.40\00:34:24.90
your job, your
career, all of these things.
00:34:24.91\00:34:27.01
But on the Sabbath
you get to focus on God
00:34:27.02\00:34:29.41
something outside of yourself
and rejuvenate your spirit.
00:34:29.42\00:34:32.29
And isn't it interesting
that these other blocks of time
00:34:32.30\00:34:38.32
are based on
objective phenomena.
00:34:38.33\00:34:40.80
You got it. Moon, sun, stars,
00:34:40.81\00:34:42.47
rotation of the earth.
00:34:42.48\00:34:43.61
But the seventh day cycle
is kind of internal thing.
00:34:43.62\00:34:46.55
Kind of thing
between you and God
00:34:46.56\00:34:47.71
when you try to
do eight day week
00:34:47.72\00:34:48.95
or ten day
week, it just doesn't.
00:34:48.96\00:34:50.66
Well, the French tried the
ten day, it just didn't work.
00:34:50.67\00:34:52.68
No one likes it anyway
00:34:52.69\00:34:55.51
Can you imagine that
long between weekends?
00:34:55.52\00:34:58.49
That would be horrible.
00:34:58.50\00:35:00.76
Robert from Oregon,
00:35:00.77\00:35:02.06
the people that
believe in intelligent design
00:35:02.07\00:35:03.88
what do they do
with the Sabbath.
00:35:03.89\00:35:05.54
May be he's saying people
that stop it intelligent design
00:35:05.55\00:35:08.16
and not go all the way.
What they will do on Sabbath?
00:35:08.17\00:35:09.99
That's a great question.
00:35:10.00\00:35:11.08
The reality is that
there are many people
00:35:11.09\00:35:13.19
that affirm God as a designer.
00:35:13.20\00:35:15.30
God as a creator
even may be the Bible God.
00:35:15.31\00:35:18.57
The biblical God up to a degree,
00:35:18.58\00:35:20.60
but then the
issue of the Sabbath
00:35:20.61\00:35:22.37
which is precisely
why if I could be so bold.
00:35:22.38\00:35:24.80
I am a Seventh-day Adventist.
00:35:24.81\00:35:26.75
It's why Sean is
Seventh-day Adventist
00:35:26.76\00:35:28.11
because we want
to take these things
00:35:28.12\00:35:29.57
to their natural conclusion.
00:35:29.58\00:35:32.26
But it doesn't mean
that there are lot of people
00:35:32.27\00:35:33.80
who've the same
background as we have.
00:35:33.81\00:35:35.41
You know, we can't judge
the background of a person
00:35:35.42\00:35:38.61
and what like they
actually understand.
00:35:38.62\00:35:41.25
Just because someone has been--
00:35:41.26\00:35:43.19
the light has been
shared with someone,
00:35:43.20\00:35:44.37
it doesn't mean
they have comprehended it
00:35:44.38\00:35:46.08
and we need to reserve judgment.
00:35:46.09\00:35:47.36
In reality, is this
that many of these people
00:35:47.37\00:35:49.05
are absolutely very
sincere committed Christians.
00:35:49.06\00:35:53.49
Good people. In fact I
told a lot of my friends
00:35:53.50\00:35:56.29
that I think quite a
number of surprise atheist
00:35:56.30\00:35:58.51
will be in heaven who followed
00:35:58.52\00:36:02.29
as far as they could
comprehend within themselves.
00:36:02.30\00:36:04.77
Well, Paul does say
there right in Roman Chapter 2
00:36:04.78\00:36:07.16
that the Gentiles
who do not have the law
00:36:07.17\00:36:08.73
do by nature the
things contained in the law,
00:36:08.74\00:36:10.71
they show the law
written in their hearts.
00:36:10.72\00:36:12.78
And God will just say by the way
00:36:12.79\00:36:14.82
when they get to heaven God.
00:36:14.83\00:36:16.36
I just I think they're in shock,
00:36:16.37\00:36:18.56
how did I get
here? And God will say
00:36:18.57\00:36:19.87
Well, let me tell
you a little story.
00:36:19.88\00:36:22.24
Let me tell you a story hardly.
00:36:22.25\00:36:23.35
Or right there
what's it Zachariah 13
00:36:23.36\00:36:24.94
it says that people
will approach Jesus in heaven
00:36:24.95\00:36:27.79
and say what are
these wounds in your hands,
00:36:27.80\00:36:29.42
and He will say, oh,
these are those that I received
00:36:29.43\00:36:30.91
in the house of
my friends. Right.
00:36:30.92\00:36:31.95
So not everybody
knows the gospel story
00:36:31.96\00:36:33.63
who will be in heaven.
But now the flipside of that
00:36:33.64\00:36:35.76
is not to sort of
pour water on things here,
00:36:35.77\00:36:38.13
but the flipside is
that there is people
00:36:38.14\00:36:39.42
who are Christians
who probably think,
00:36:39.43\00:36:41.71
oh, I am heaven bound,
00:36:41.72\00:36:43.02
but what Jesus
himself said there
00:36:43.03\00:36:45.01
is may it will
say to me Lord, Lord
00:36:45.02\00:36:46.88
and I'll say to
you, I never knew you.
00:36:46.89\00:36:48.60
So we need to distinguish
between going to a church
00:36:48.61\00:36:51.48
and going to the
Christian motions
00:36:51.49\00:36:52.97
and being a
follower of the Christ,
00:36:52.98\00:36:54.99
and having a spirit inside.
This is also not to discount
00:36:55.00\00:36:57.67
the value of being a
Seventh-day Adventist,
00:36:57.68\00:36:59.99
because there is a
lot of value in that
00:37:00.00\00:37:02.78
it makes our lives much better
now as well as in the future.
00:37:02.79\00:37:06.02
We are working it
with Christ in His field,
00:37:06.03\00:37:08.10
doing His work in
the heat of the day
00:37:08.11\00:37:09.89
which some people
think would be a burden
00:37:09.90\00:37:11.65
they would complain about it,
but I think it's a privilege.
00:37:11.66\00:37:14.33
Praise God. Amen.
00:37:14.34\00:37:16.73
We got a statement here.
There's another question.
00:37:16.74\00:37:18.90
I would like to first say
that pastor Asscherick is--
00:37:18.91\00:37:21.87
now they have
defiantly a man of God.
00:37:21.88\00:37:23.71
And you are
defiantly though. Defiantly
00:37:23.72\00:37:25.16
But I think, a
definitely a man of God.
00:37:25.17\00:37:26.76
Oh, okay. And
perhaps defiantly also.
00:37:26.77\00:37:30.26
There are some things
00:37:30.27\00:37:31.51
that are not meant for
us to completely understand.
00:37:31.52\00:37:33.56
And I agree that,
but there are some things
00:37:33.57\00:37:34.92
we can't understand.
00:37:34.93\00:37:36.48
We simply must
trust and have faith.
00:37:36.49\00:37:39.55
When Peter asks
Jesus about John,
00:37:39.56\00:37:42.51
Jesus basically told him
00:37:42.52\00:37:43.66
that it was not his
business to know now.
00:37:43.67\00:37:45.85
His job was to
follow Christ. God bless.
00:37:45.86\00:37:49.48
Okay. The same thing with Job.
00:37:49.49\00:37:51.24
God basically didn't
tell Job why he was suffering.
00:37:51.25\00:37:53.56
What the God do though,
00:37:53.57\00:37:54.58
He didn't leave Job
without any answers.
00:37:54.59\00:37:56.49
He just pointed out
to him by the way Job,
00:37:56.50\00:37:58.42
I am smarter than you,
00:37:58.43\00:37:59.63
I know what I am
doing and I like you.
00:37:59.64\00:38:03.71
You know what else
do you need to know.
00:38:03.72\00:38:06.44
That is pretty much the packet.
00:38:06.45\00:38:07.74
I will take that.
You will take that.
00:38:07.75\00:38:09.22
That's grace.
00:38:09.23\00:38:11.31
Oh, I like that, brilliant.
00:38:11.32\00:38:12.92
We're not going
to understand it No.
00:38:12.93\00:38:14.18
The things that
are revealed for us
00:38:14.19\00:38:15.31
and our children and the
things that are not a revealed,
00:38:15.32\00:38:17.21
they are for
God. They are for God.
00:38:17.22\00:38:18.50
Yeah, Robert, I
believe completely
00:38:18.51\00:38:21.72
I have heard that if the
flood is as the Bible says,
00:38:21.73\00:38:26.09
there would be
so much air pressure
00:38:26.10\00:38:28.61
and pressure of water in the
air that no one could breathe.
00:38:28.62\00:38:33.48
Well, I suppose if
you are under water,
00:38:33.49\00:38:34.81
it doesn't matter anyway.
00:38:34.82\00:38:36.44
Yeah, I mean we're even told
the devil feared for his life.
00:38:39.19\00:38:42.98
It was a
vicious event. Oh, yeah.
00:38:42.99\00:38:45.32
I am so glad you mentioned that,
00:38:45.33\00:38:46.34
because we sort
of have this idea
00:38:46.35\00:38:49.49
that the flood was
the like the bath tub.
00:38:49.50\00:38:50.85
The water went up,
the water went down.
00:38:50.86\00:38:52.43
But, I mean it
was-- Vicious, violent.
00:38:52.44\00:38:54.60
If I can be so bold, all
heaven broke loose so to speak.
00:38:54.61\00:38:57.37
And it was--I
mean rocks are flying
00:38:57.38\00:39:00.03
and mountains are up surging.
00:39:00.04\00:39:01.37
And you know, you
talked about tidal waves
00:39:01.38\00:39:03.54
and I mean it was
a-- it was a cat--
00:39:03.55\00:39:05.94
we don't call it a
catastrophe for nothing
00:39:05.95\00:39:09.12
It was. I read somewhere
00:39:09.13\00:39:11.13
I can't remember
what the exact quote,
00:39:11.14\00:39:12.58
with that the
water rose 26 feet above
00:39:12.59\00:39:14.65
the highest of
mountain. Yeah, that's right.
00:39:14.66\00:39:16.73
And a violent storm, of
course and again said so vicious
00:39:16.74\00:39:19.43
abuot the devil
feared for his life.
00:39:19.44\00:39:20.86
In fact it was so unique
00:39:20.87\00:39:22.18
that's why we
can't really understand
00:39:22.19\00:39:24.06
all the features of it. Yeah.
00:39:24.07\00:39:25.41
I'm glad you said
that too, because you know,
00:39:25.42\00:39:26.82
we're little bit like detective
00:39:26.83\00:39:28.18
sort of coming
upon a crime scene.
00:39:28.19\00:39:30.29
And how much of
experience of you had, you know,
00:39:30.30\00:39:32.45
really well trained geologists
who live seventy, eighty years,
00:39:32.46\00:39:36.22
you know, that's a
fraction of the time necessary
00:39:36.23\00:39:38.50
to really understand
what happened I believe.
00:39:38.51\00:39:41.07
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah.
00:39:41.08\00:39:42.80
We've only had one of its kind.
00:39:42.81\00:39:45.09
It's the
singularity. Yeah, so we are-
00:39:45.10\00:39:47.60
So we are sort of
groping in the dark
00:39:47.61\00:39:48.88
putting the pieces together
and what we try to do today,
00:39:48.89\00:39:51.00
and say here's
some evidence that--
00:39:51.01\00:39:53.05
certainly it seems to fit the
young earth Genesis creation.
00:39:53.06\00:39:56.90
I mean you know just, I
just think again of that,
00:39:56.91\00:39:58.56
that soft tissue and the blood
00:39:58.57\00:40:01.08
you know the actual blood cells
00:40:01.09\00:40:02.91
in these 65 million
year old bonsai, I just can't
00:40:02.92\00:40:06.17
Yeah, incredible, incredible.
00:40:06.18\00:40:07.29
I think about, you
know, the hurricane
00:40:07.30\00:40:10.77
that swamped New
Orleans a few years back
00:40:10.78\00:40:12.99
and we still
ruminate on how bad that was,
00:40:13.00\00:40:17.32
and that was local.
Or think of the tsunami,
00:40:17.33\00:40:20.16
you know the Boxing Day Tsunami.
00:40:20.17\00:40:22.11
250,000 people. Yeah.
00:40:22.12\00:40:23.57
That was
localized. They are localized,
00:40:23.58\00:40:25.45
and this was a
worldwide catastrophe.
00:40:25.46\00:40:27.78
And as you said,
water swirling around
00:40:27.79\00:40:29.34
and around, and
around, and around.
00:40:29.35\00:40:31.42
We have nothing
to compare that to.
00:40:31.43\00:40:33.46
No. Nothing at all.
00:40:33.47\00:40:34.63
Did God actually
create the dinosaur
00:40:34.64\00:40:37.46
or where do you
think they came from?
00:40:37.47\00:40:42.59
This is a really tough question.
00:40:42.60\00:40:44.06
It's a good question
though. It is a good question.
00:40:44.07\00:40:46.23
Everybody ask it,
00:40:46.24\00:40:48.15
but I don't think it's
definitively answerable.
00:40:48.16\00:40:51.18
I mean in Adventist traditional,
00:40:51.19\00:40:53.20
lot of Adventist believe that
00:40:53.21\00:40:54.47
perhaps the
antediluvians were every smart
00:40:54.48\00:40:56.42
and I believe
that they were. Yes.
00:40:56.43\00:40:57.89
Antediluvians meaning
00:40:57.90\00:40:59.15
Before the
pre-flood people, okay.
00:40:59.16\00:41:00.73
And they were smart
enough to manipulate
00:41:00.74\00:41:02.28
genetics of
creatures and to amalgamate
00:41:02.29\00:41:05.38
that's the word
often used in adventistism
00:41:05.39\00:41:07.70
different creatures together
and produce strange things.
00:41:07.71\00:41:10.40
Yeah. That's one possibility
00:41:10.41\00:41:12.43
I am not necessarily
saying that's right or wrong,
00:41:12.44\00:41:15.05
but there is
other possibilities like
00:41:15.06\00:41:17.79
before the flood
humans lived ten times
00:41:17.80\00:41:20.72
as long as human live now. Yes.
00:41:20.73\00:41:23.07
And perhaps animals too
and some animals that live now
00:41:23.08\00:41:26.85
they don't get old and they grow
throughout their whole life.
00:41:26.86\00:41:29.84
Like an alligator or a
crocodile never stops growing.
00:41:29.85\00:41:32.78
They never stops growing. Right.
00:41:32.79\00:41:34.21
And so if an alligator
lives several hundred years
00:41:34.22\00:41:37.41
versus seventy years. Yeah.
00:41:37.42\00:41:39.43
How big-- it might look like
00:41:39.44\00:41:41.15
a dinosaur. Yeah.
00:41:41.16\00:41:42.51
There are numerous perspectives
and sort of theories
00:41:42.52\00:41:46.02
hypothesis about where
the dinosaurs came from.
00:41:46.03\00:41:48.48
I like what Sean said
there we can have perspectives
00:41:48.49\00:41:50.63
but this is a very difficult
question to answer definitively.
00:41:50.64\00:41:54.42
I just read a fascinating
book. Have you read the book?
00:41:54.43\00:41:56.72
It's like a seven hundred
page sort of semi scholarly work
00:41:56.73\00:41:59.55
by David Reed called 'Dinosaurs'
In fact we have talked with him.
00:41:59.56\00:42:02.52
Yeah. But half way through it.
00:42:02.53\00:42:03.56
An Adventist
perspective I have read it.
00:42:03.57\00:42:05.45
And his theory
is, his hypothesis is,
00:42:05.46\00:42:08.29
he doesn't say
this is what happened,
00:42:08.30\00:42:09.62
but he says here is the evidence
00:42:09.63\00:42:11.67
is the
amalgamation theory. Engineered.
00:42:11.68\00:42:13.84
And it's fascinating.
00:42:13.85\00:42:15.71
And he says this when you look
at how they were constructed.
00:42:15.72\00:42:19.70
Very
incomplete, very inadequate,
00:42:19.71\00:42:21.64
you've got T-rex, all
teeth and jaws, no hands.
00:42:21.65\00:42:24.81
You know they were,
they looked like experiments.
00:42:24.82\00:42:27.05
They looked freaks.
They looked freakish.
00:42:27.06\00:42:29.18
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:29.19\00:42:30.22
But you can also get
some more distortions
00:42:30.23\00:42:32.25
by simple random imitations
in different environments,
00:42:32.26\00:42:35.70
and quantitative
changes in creatures
00:42:35.71\00:42:39.40
as they originally
were. For example, we are told
00:42:39.41\00:42:43.24
a lion will eat straw like
an ox when we get to heaven.
00:42:43.25\00:42:45.75
That's presumably how the lion
was originally intended to be,
00:42:45.76\00:42:48.78
but that's not
how lions are now No.
00:42:48.79\00:42:50.95
And yet God evidently made lions
to begin with each like an art.
00:42:50.96\00:42:55.18
Yet they degenerated
from that ideal state.
00:42:55.19\00:42:57.08
In fact it
requires more information
00:42:57.09\00:42:59.71
on complexity to
eat straw versus meat.
00:42:59.72\00:43:01.71
So a lion is degenerated,
00:43:01.72\00:43:04.14
a carnivorous is less complex
00:43:04.15\00:43:05.62
than its
original vegetarian state.
00:43:05.63\00:43:07.59
And so perhaps the similar
thing happened to reptiles.
00:43:07.60\00:43:10.55
Yeah, I was looking at
something just yesterday
00:43:10.56\00:43:12.40
talking about pit bulls,
00:43:12.41\00:43:13.56
how they are bred
to attack other dogs.
00:43:13.57\00:43:16.34
Their bite is much more
vicious when it lock down,
00:43:16.35\00:43:18.28
you cannot open those
jaws. It's a dogs bred to kill,
00:43:18.29\00:43:22.94
and you can do that
in a few generations.
00:43:22.95\00:43:24.40
You know you can
breed out certain things.
00:43:24.41\00:43:28.12
And we think of man
as you go back in history
00:43:28.13\00:43:30.02
as being dumb or more brute,
00:43:30.03\00:43:31.44
but as you are going
back to closer to creation
00:43:31.45\00:43:34.48
he actually is smarter with more
faculties with more abilities
00:43:34.49\00:43:37.82
and a thousand
years to get into trouble
00:43:37.83\00:43:39.69
you can do a lot of mischief
when you get to 96, 97, 98.
00:43:39.70\00:43:42.65
I get in plenty of
troubles just in my--
00:43:42.66\00:43:44.17
Precisely
00:43:44.18\00:43:45.25
I think we should at least admit
this is largely speculative.
00:43:45.26\00:43:48.05
Yeah. It is, it is.
00:43:48.06\00:43:51.58
This question kind of
tends to come lot also.
00:43:51.59\00:43:53.67
The stars in the universe
00:43:53.68\00:43:54.87
are millions of light
years away from the earth.
00:43:54.88\00:43:57.35
Since God created
universe in only 6,000 years.
00:43:57.36\00:43:59.94
Why is that we can see the
light from these stars today.
00:43:59.95\00:44:03.19
Well, that
presupposes the question
00:44:03.20\00:44:04.87
that we answered
earlier and that is--
00:44:04.88\00:44:06.99
who said the universe
is only 6,000 years old?
00:44:07.00\00:44:08.79
That's number one
and the number two,
00:44:08.80\00:44:10.71
The quote often
used is, you know,
00:44:10.72\00:44:12.30
He made the stars also, you know
in the creation week, it says.
00:44:12.31\00:44:16.37
He made stars also right
there in the days of creation.
00:44:16.38\00:44:19.77
So it isn't that
part of creation week.
00:44:19.78\00:44:21.56
Well, in the original Hebrew,
00:44:21.57\00:44:23.45
a lot of scholars argue
that this is almost as an aside
00:44:23.46\00:44:26.55
or by the way, in
case you are wondering,
00:44:26.56\00:44:28.17
He did make the stars.
00:44:28.18\00:44:29.70
He doesn't necessarily indicate
00:44:29.71\00:44:30.97
that He made them
during the creation week.
00:44:30.98\00:44:33.30
And further more,
00:44:33.31\00:44:35.22
less you even say that's
the case which I think it is.
00:44:35.23\00:44:37.62
How--what did Adam look like.
00:44:37.63\00:44:39.92
Chances are that Adam
was created with as a man.
00:44:39.93\00:44:43.67
You know with the
appearance of maturity.
00:44:43.68\00:44:45.97
Appearance of
age. Appearance of age.
00:44:45.98\00:44:47.47
But the difference between a
star a billion light years away
00:44:47.48\00:44:50.81
and Adam with
the appearance of age
00:44:50.82\00:44:52.22
is that God would
also have to have created
00:44:52.23\00:44:54.13
the light in between
which would like make up stuff
00:44:54.14\00:44:56.94
that wasn't ever really real,
00:44:56.95\00:44:58.65
which doesn't
seem like God to me.
00:44:58.66\00:45:01.24
God seems more
consistent than that.
00:45:01.25\00:45:02.97
Yeah. Again some times,
00:45:02.98\00:45:06.35
we kind of leap off a little bit
00:45:06.36\00:45:07.96
when we tackle
some of this stuff.
00:45:07.97\00:45:09.78
Well, it kind of
gets back to the things
00:45:09.79\00:45:10.86
that are revealed
for us and our children
00:45:10.87\00:45:12.92
and other things
that are not revealed are,
00:45:12.93\00:45:15.17
I mean it's fun to speculate
about some of these things,
00:45:15.18\00:45:17.13
but to be honest we don't
know a lot of the details.
00:45:17.14\00:45:21.01
I'll just put down few
questions, because they--
00:45:21.02\00:45:22.67
It makes life fun by the way.
00:45:22.68\00:45:24.84
They are the exact repetition
of the question we just asked.
00:45:24.85\00:45:28.42
There another
thing about the light
00:45:28.43\00:45:29.96
and people are very interesting
in some of these things.
00:45:29.97\00:45:32.83
Dear, I say that
some of these answers
00:45:32.84\00:45:34.54
we will not have
until we sit and talk out
00:45:34.55\00:45:37.03
with Jesus face
to face. Absolutely.
00:45:37.04\00:45:38.82
Jesus, I can talk
about for the next
00:45:38.83\00:45:39.92
couple of billion
years while we are together.
00:45:39.93\00:45:41.51
Absolutely.
00:45:41.52\00:45:42.62
Let me take a quick break here
and go back to our free offer.
00:45:42.63\00:45:46.24
While time is a lot of to us.
00:45:46.25\00:45:49.05
Again the magazine is
called Creation Illustrated,
00:45:49.06\00:45:54.70
in nature, in
scripture, in living.
00:45:54.71\00:45:56.47
And I just saw those
three words, in nature,
00:45:56.48\00:45:58.30
in scripture, in living.
It is a really good work.
00:45:58.31\00:46:02.73
Very colorful, excellent
articles, very readable
00:46:02.74\00:46:05.82
the kind of thing you can
leave on your coffee table
00:46:05.83\00:46:07.41
or take down to
your doctor's office
00:46:07.42\00:46:09.09
and leave it there for patients
to read, great articles.
00:46:09.10\00:46:12.97
And we would like
to get this to you.
00:46:12.98\00:46:14.87
We can get it to
you if you will email us
00:46:14.88\00:46:16.93
at freeoffer@3abn.org.
That's freeoffer@3abn.org
00:46:16.94\00:46:22.29
or call us
618-627-4651, 618-627-4651,
00:46:22.30\00:46:28.72
and we will get this
right in the mail to you
00:46:28.73\00:46:30.92
from our friends at
Creation Illustrated.
00:46:30.93\00:46:33.35
Well worth having
and well worth reading.
00:46:33.36\00:46:37.39
All right
gentlemen, let's press on.
00:46:37.40\00:46:39.04
Great, that's my
copy, don't forget.
00:46:39.05\00:46:40.68
You know, I'm gonna
put this in your hand.
00:46:40.69\00:46:42.05
Hey, thank you much,
So that you can have it.
00:46:42.06\00:46:43.89
Thank you for
letter, for sending me email.
00:46:43.90\00:46:46.98
This is kind of an inside job.
00:46:46.99\00:46:48.85
What do you think about,
let's see, educatetruth.com?
00:46:51.89\00:46:55.55
what they're doing, are you
familiar with educatetruth.com?
00:46:55.56\00:47:00.24
And I guess it has
some signing petition.
00:47:00.25\00:47:02.17
Well that goes back to the thing
00:47:02.18\00:47:03.28
that you mentioned
right at the outset
00:47:03.29\00:47:04.28
and that was this
letter that was written
00:47:04.29\00:47:05.67
by myself and others,
00:47:05.68\00:47:07.51
Sean has written
numerous letters as well.
00:47:07.52\00:47:09.82
And I think what
happened is that many people
00:47:09.83\00:47:12.47
that you sort of talked about
sort of groundswell of people
00:47:12.48\00:47:14.61
that said hey,
we believe that too,
00:47:14.62\00:47:16.03
and there were sort of a--I hate
to use the word frustration,
00:47:16.04\00:47:18.97
but there is a sense
of hey, let's do something
00:47:18.98\00:47:21.50
and so our website was
started called educatetruth.com.
00:47:21.51\00:47:25.97
It's skewed not
entirely but largely
00:47:25.98\00:47:28.39
to the Seventh-day
Adventist community
00:47:28.40\00:47:30.17
and there is a petition
on there that can be signed
00:47:30.18\00:47:32.67
which I strongly
recommend, and urge and advice
00:47:32.68\00:47:36.87
if you'd like to go,
read it, read the petition.
00:47:36.88\00:47:38.77
But basically it just says,
00:47:38.78\00:47:40.18
we want people in our
Christian institutions
00:47:40.19\00:47:43.69
that believe as we
believe purportedly believe that
00:47:43.70\00:47:46.86
just to teach that. Yeah.
00:47:46.87\00:47:48.09
And these are people that are
saying yeah, we agree, we agree.
00:47:48.10\00:47:50.58
To me the fact that we should
even have to have a petition
00:47:50.59\00:47:52.71
to this effect
is a little bit odd.
00:47:52.72\00:47:54.97
But in addition to the petition
00:47:54.98\00:47:57.73
there is an also just
tremendous article on there,
00:47:57.74\00:47:59.88
and just a little bit of forum,
Sean's got some things on there.
00:47:59.89\00:48:03.50
So yes, it's a good website
00:48:03.51\00:48:04.82
worthy of your attention. Yeah.
00:48:04.83\00:48:06.36
I suspect it is not
unreasonable to have people
00:48:06.37\00:48:11.52
who are card carrying
members of the company
00:48:11.53\00:48:14.87
preach the company line.
00:48:14.88\00:48:16.35
Yeah, it's kind of
like Nike and Reebok
00:48:16.36\00:48:18.42
I mean people don't like the--
some people don't like the idea
00:48:18.43\00:48:21.78
that the church
is a business model.
00:48:21.79\00:48:24.41
They think, oh, it
should be a family model
00:48:24.42\00:48:26.62
and loving and
everything as I-yeah,
00:48:26.63\00:48:28.93
well, it could
be a family model,
00:48:28.94\00:48:30.42
but as dearly
as I love my mother
00:48:30.43\00:48:32.48
who is a registered
nurse, I wouldn't want her
00:48:32.52\00:48:34.06
doing heart surgery on me. Yeah.
00:48:34.07\00:48:36.31
So if you don't believe in
the ideals of the organization,
00:48:36.32\00:48:42.30
or if you think the
organization is wrong.
00:48:42.31\00:48:44.29
Why should you
expect the organization
00:48:44.30\00:48:45.96
to pay you for your ideas.
00:48:45.97\00:48:47.71
And this is a matter of
practicality of church order
00:48:47.72\00:48:50.28
and government in a
business ultimately.
00:48:50.29\00:48:52.91
It's a church business
00:48:52.92\00:48:54.00
and the church
has to run it as such.
00:48:54.01\00:48:56.43
It can't just pay everybody
just to say any old idea,
00:48:56.44\00:48:59.71
because the
church has taken a stand.
00:48:59.72\00:49:01.34
And it's not just a
matter of practicality,
00:49:01.35\00:49:02.93
let's be honest, it's a
matter of ethics as well.
00:49:02.94\00:49:04.52
I mean if I came to believe
things that were contrary
00:49:04.53\00:49:06.94
to what the church teaches
00:49:06.95\00:49:08.73
would I be justify--
how could I possibly justify
00:49:08.74\00:49:11.35
taking a check from
a church that pays me
00:49:11.36\00:49:13.10
to teach A-- Right.
00:49:13.11\00:49:14.63
Which I happened
to believe by the way
00:49:14.64\00:49:16.91
if I am teaching B
or C. To me personally
00:49:16.92\00:49:20.22
I couldn't even
conceive of doing that.
00:49:20.23\00:49:23.27
Not to say that the scientist
00:49:23.28\00:49:25.29
who are doing otherwise
are inherently dishonest.
00:49:25.30\00:49:28.34
I think a lot
of these guys are--
00:49:28.35\00:49:29.60
sincere honest men and
women. Yeah, I completely agree.
00:49:29.61\00:49:32.20
However there is a
certain ethical problem
00:49:32.21\00:49:36.55
when you do take
money from an organization
00:49:36.56\00:49:39.15
to do actually
counter that organization
00:49:39.16\00:49:41.82
on a fundamental way.
00:49:41.83\00:49:42.88
Well, let me take
it even a step further.
00:49:42.89\00:49:44.68
My perspective is not
that the issue resides so much
00:49:44.69\00:49:47.15
with the
individuals that are doing it.
00:49:47.16\00:49:48.86
If the atmosphere is being
created that hey, this is okay.
00:49:48.87\00:49:52.05
They can hardly be blamed
00:49:52.06\00:49:53.61
for continuing to do
what appears to be okay.
00:49:53.62\00:49:56.39
To me, the larger
issue of responsibility
00:49:56.40\00:49:59.51
and even culpability
if I could be so bold
00:49:59.52\00:50:01.84
is with the institution. Yeah.
00:50:01.85\00:50:04.48
That once need to sort of
police and say hey, you know
00:50:04.49\00:50:07.17
And it's not really us to say
what the institution should do?
00:50:07.18\00:50:09.87
The institution is
bigger than David or I
00:50:09.88\00:50:12.68
and our goal
wasn't necessarily to say
00:50:12.69\00:50:15.20
you should be
doing in x, y and z.
00:50:15.21\00:50:17.11
Our goal is saying
this is what's happening,
00:50:17.12\00:50:19.05
this is what you want. Yeah.
00:50:19.06\00:50:20.62
And do you want-- And
if it is what you want
00:50:20.63\00:50:22.40
I am sorry in a
role of subversive
00:50:22.41\00:50:23.83
if you are part
of the institution
00:50:23.84\00:50:25.47
I think part of
your responsibility
00:50:25.48\00:50:27.03
to the institution is to uphold
the tenants of the institutions.
00:50:27.04\00:50:31.23
Absolutely and the
next level would also be--
00:50:31.24\00:50:34.04
just be absolutely
upfront in your advertising
00:50:34.05\00:50:37.18
and in your public the
way that you are presented
00:50:37.19\00:50:39.09
In other words, if you
promise A don't deliver B.
00:50:39.10\00:50:41.30
Be transparent.
00:50:41.31\00:50:42.94
At the very
minimum be transparent.
00:50:42.95\00:50:44.79
So that parents
who're paying a lot of money
00:50:44.80\00:50:47.13
to send their children.
Education is not inexpensive.
00:50:47.14\00:50:49.71
It's very expensive. Yeah.
00:50:49.72\00:50:51.58
Great deal of
sacrifice goes into it
00:50:51.59\00:50:53.33
and parents deserve to
know that they are paying for.
00:50:53.34\00:50:55.75
And lastly from a purely
anthological very broad spectrum
00:50:55.76\00:51:01.54
we are dealing with
things that we believe
00:51:01.55\00:51:03.38
impact not relying on the
life here but on eternity.
00:51:03.39\00:51:08.00
So it's not well, do you want--
00:51:08.01\00:51:09.93
this is not like sort of--
00:51:09.94\00:51:11.54
Chinese menu. Pizza or pasta.
00:51:11.55\00:51:13.52
Precisely, no, you've
got to buy the whole thing.
00:51:13.53\00:51:16.74
And you are for
ever hinges on this.
00:51:16.75\00:51:20.45
So if you are teaching something
00:51:20.46\00:51:21.72
that undermines
that you hurt them now
00:51:21.73\00:51:24.89
but you also
hurt them in eternity.
00:51:24.90\00:51:26.39
I actually don't mind a
teacher teaching something
00:51:26.40\00:51:28.60
that undermines
Adventism. I don't mind it.
00:51:28.61\00:51:30.85
I just don't want that teacher
to demand a paycheck from me.
00:51:30.86\00:51:34.82
As like if you want
to do that, that's fine
00:51:34.83\00:51:36.51
there is plenty of states--
There's a lot of states, goals
00:51:36.52\00:51:39.00
or if you want--if people want
to pay you for that, that's fine
00:51:39.01\00:51:42.36
that's is what
America is all about.
00:51:42.37\00:51:44.86
but I am also
free to pick and choose
00:51:44.87\00:51:46.97
where I want to
educate my children.
00:51:46.98\00:51:48.42
Precisely, yeah, I
get one step further
00:51:48.43\00:51:50.53
I guess some of
them get big it on this
00:51:50.54\00:51:51.84
I mind people who
undermine Adventism
00:51:51.85\00:51:54.18
But not like in states
school, you wouldn't mind.
00:51:54.19\00:51:55.90
Precisely, I mind that too.
There's nothing I can do about--
00:51:55.91\00:51:58.59
Yeah, I have a
problem with that.
00:51:58.60\00:51:59.85
The idea of scrutiny that
the truth can withstand scrutiny
00:51:59.86\00:52:02.25
But when it's
happening from within, it's like
00:52:02.26\00:52:05.42
You know it's
unsettling. I mean to be honest
00:52:05.43\00:52:07.50
when I was exposed to this, C.A.
00:52:07.51\00:52:09.93
when some of these things
were brought to my attention
00:52:09.94\00:52:11.36
and it was run to my intention
00:52:11.37\00:52:12.44
not entirely but largely
by an excellent editorial
00:52:12.45\00:52:14.89
by Clifford Goldstein
called Seventh-day Darwinians.
00:52:14.90\00:52:17.90
I remember reading that
00:52:17.91\00:52:18.91
and I thought I must have read
it wrong. So I read it again.
00:52:18.92\00:52:21.36
And I thought I must have read
that wrong. So I read it again.
00:52:21.37\00:52:24.07
And I just I had to sort
of pick my job of the ground.
00:52:24.08\00:52:28.67
The Australians would
say that I was gobsmacked.
00:52:28.68\00:52:31.38
But I was just like,
00:52:31.39\00:52:33.25
so you know I am
not the kind of person
00:52:33.26\00:52:35.34
as you can imagine just sit by
and say, "Oh, well that, no--"
00:52:35.35\00:52:38.48
And then start like you are
making a moral judgment either.
00:52:38.49\00:52:40.94
I don't believe
that people who--
00:52:40.95\00:52:42.44
believe in
Darwinism or evolution
00:52:42.45\00:52:44.60
or millions of
years of life on earth.
00:52:44.61\00:52:46.98
I don't believe
those people inherently
00:52:46.99\00:52:48.49
evil or bad or
anything else. Yeah.
00:52:48.50\00:52:50.26
I just think that they are
not Adventist in their theology.
00:52:50.27\00:52:53.73
I love we can say that
this is not a moral judgment.
00:52:53.74\00:52:56.13
And I also don't think
they should be excluded
00:52:56.14\00:52:57.78
from the church as far
as attendance is concerned.
00:52:57.79\00:52:59.91
I just think that
the paid representative
00:52:59.92\00:53:01.97
should be held
to higher standard.
00:53:01.98\00:53:03.52
Agreed, yeah, we
can I love those points.
00:53:03.53\00:53:05.87
Because every time
someone is converted
00:53:05.88\00:53:07.39
they were converted from
something else compared to truth
00:53:07.40\00:53:10.24
so at any given point
time, you cannot judge them.
00:53:10.25\00:53:12.08
Because you don't
know wil there be tomorrow
00:53:12.09\00:53:13.76
having said that, I
like that on the payroll, no.
00:53:13.77\00:53:17.44
Paul says in 2
Corinthians chapter 5,
00:53:17.45\00:53:19.11
he says, "we no
longer regard any man
00:53:19.12\00:53:21.75
according to the
flesh." Precisely.
00:53:21.76\00:53:23.23
We don't see them as they are
00:53:23.24\00:53:24.23
we see them as
they could be in Christ
00:53:24.24\00:53:25.38
but we got to get back
to the issue of payroll.
00:53:25.39\00:53:28.22
This is just an organ--it's the
practical matter what you said
00:53:28.23\00:53:30.42
and it is.
Because things go chaotic.
00:53:30.43\00:53:32.70
Anarchy just doesn't
work for any organization
00:53:32.71\00:53:35.51
that has a
specific goal in mind.
00:53:35.52\00:53:37.11
Precisely. And we
have a goal in mind
00:53:37.12\00:53:39.81
and we say this, the success
of every movement is movement
00:53:39.82\00:53:42.94
and let's keep
this thing moving.
00:53:42.95\00:53:44.74
We have a message to preach,
we have a Christ to share.
00:53:44.75\00:53:47.54
We can't move in
a splinter direction
00:53:47.55\00:53:48.85
No, we all gonna
pull in same direction.
00:53:48.86\00:53:50.33
Pulling back and pulling
forward we are not going.
00:53:50.34\00:53:53.33
You know, the time
is slipping away from us
00:53:53.34\00:53:55.34
and before I take a
couple more questions
00:53:55.35\00:53:56.89
I want to go to an address roll.
00:53:56.90\00:54:00.92
You may want to contact either
or both of these educated men.
00:54:00.93\00:54:05.17
We have talked about
a lot of things today.
00:54:05.18\00:54:07.70
Along with getting the DVD
which I hardly suggest you do
00:54:07.71\00:54:10.93
you may want to have
them come, David travels
00:54:10.94\00:54:13.25
I am sure the good
doctor can get away
00:54:13.26\00:54:14.87
every night
again and travel also.
00:54:14.88\00:54:17.57
Here is the contact
information that you will need.
00:54:17.58\00:54:20.40
If you would like to
contact David Asherick
00:54:26.50\00:54:28.12
to find out more about
ARISE institute, you can do so.
00:54:28.13\00:54:31.19
By writing to ARISE,
Post office Box 5529,
00:54:31.20\00:54:35.50
Sonora, California 95370,
00:54:35.51\00:54:38.78
that's ARISE, Post Box
5529, Sonora, California 95370.
00:54:38.79\00:54:46.45
You can also email him
at info@ariseinstitute.com
00:54:46.46\00:54:51.30
That's info@ariseinstitute.com
it's all one word.
00:54:51.31\00:54:56.44
Call or write today. They
would love to hear from you.
00:54:56.45\00:54:59.96
That information that we
asked you to take advantage of--
00:55:07.30\00:55:10.90
You can contact David at ARISE.
00:55:10.91\00:55:12.96
And I am sure he
can put you in trouble
00:55:12.97\00:55:15.37
to good doctor
there they're friends.
00:55:15.38\00:55:17.10
And if you get
a group of doctors
00:55:17.11\00:55:19.07
or scholarly
individuals together
00:55:19.08\00:55:20.95
and you want to sort of
set them back on the heels
00:55:20.96\00:55:23.64
call in Dr. Sean I
think he would do good.
00:55:23.65\00:55:25.62
He is coming to our
church here Very shortly
00:55:25.63\00:55:27.78
to come and give a
lecture. Great, great.
00:55:27.79\00:55:31.27
Here is the
question that often comes up
00:55:31.28\00:55:33.78
these fossil remains, you
get a jaw, you get a tooth,
00:55:33.79\00:55:38.04
you get a femur and out of that
you construct this whole man
00:55:38.05\00:55:41.13
What do you think
about that kind of science?
00:55:41.14\00:55:43.98
Oh, there's been a
lot of pitfalls for that
00:55:43.99\00:55:46.14
like one classic example
00:55:46.15\00:55:48.16
is that there had
been a fragment of a bone
00:55:48.17\00:55:51.10
that was interpreted as being
part of a early human skeleton.
00:55:51.11\00:55:56.84
And later it was discovered
that it was part of a rib
00:55:56.85\00:55:59.20
from a dolphin and
that was very recent.
00:55:59.21\00:56:02.08
And so not everything is like
00:56:02.09\00:56:03.85
that I am not saying
that all anthropologist
00:56:03.86\00:56:06.35
are completely out to
lunch. That's not true at all.
00:56:06.36\00:56:09.70
But there's lot of
interpretation against into this
00:56:09.71\00:56:12.48
that doesn't always
turn out logical at all.
00:56:12.49\00:56:15.58
Paleoanthropology, which
is the study of ancient man
00:56:15.59\00:56:18.00
is hardly, it's
hardly a first order science
00:56:18.01\00:56:22.40
it's not burns and
burners and pulleys
00:56:22.41\00:56:24.13
and it's--there is a
great deal of interpretation.
00:56:24.14\00:56:26.62
There's a lot of
storytelling going on,
00:56:26.63\00:56:29.18
I think of all the
sciences, it may be the one
00:56:29.19\00:56:30.89
that takes the greatest
leaps of faith, of them all.
00:56:30.90\00:56:34.50
Yeah, well
gentlemen, this has been fun
00:56:34.51\00:56:36.86
we have covered a lot
of information tonight
00:56:36.87\00:56:38.74
and we are little where
that we could get it all in
00:56:38.75\00:56:40.87
but I think we did.
Had a great time too.
00:56:40.88\00:56:42.92
I had a great time doing so.
00:56:42.93\00:56:44.17
David Assherick, Arise institute
good to have you here, man.
00:56:44.18\00:56:46.29
Always good to be here so.
00:56:46.30\00:56:47.82
And good doctor
you are little far away
00:56:47.83\00:56:49.41
I guess I can reach
over and shake your hand.
00:56:49.42\00:56:51.26
This has been very,
very good information again
00:56:51.27\00:56:53.35
may I encourage you do get the
DVD and go through some of this
00:56:53.36\00:56:56.73
because this will fortify
your strength and your faith.
00:56:56.74\00:56:59.83
Our time has fast
slipped into eternity
00:56:59.84\00:57:01.87
allow and closing to
wish you grace and peace
00:57:01.88\00:57:04.28
through our Lord
and savior Jesus Christ.
00:57:04.29\00:57:05.97
We'lll be again
together again soon. Bye-bye.
00:57:05.98\00:57:08.42