Any statement regardless
of how profound it may
00:01:02.16\00:01:06.63
be, if it is repeated often
enough has a tendency in our
00:01:06.67\00:01:11.92
minds and the human mind
to become somewhat shopworn,
00:01:11.96\00:01:17.18
to lose its edge,
perhaps even then to become
00:01:17.22\00:01:20.12
trite and over rehearsed.
00:01:20.16\00:01:22.37
Given that reality it is
still compellingly true that
00:01:22.41\00:01:26.56
the statement that I am
about to make is one that should
00:01:26.59\00:01:30.71
arrest each of us who
name the name of Christ.
00:01:30.74\00:01:34.09
And that statement is simply
that Jesus is coming again.
00:01:34.12\00:01:37.81
- Amen.
00:01:37.84\00:01:38.99
Now, we've heard
that over and over again,
00:01:39.03\00:01:41.68
year in and year
out, decade in decade out.
00:01:41.72\00:01:44.31
But if that ever was
true, it certainly is true now.
00:01:44.34\00:01:49.91
We need to add
the exclamation point
00:01:49.95\00:01:54.21
He is coming
again, very, very soon!
00:01:54.24\00:01:58.43
Now, given that reality,
there are a number of things
00:01:58.47\00:02:01.70
that attend that
reality, that sort of appertain
00:02:01.74\00:02:04.64
to that reality.
00:02:04.67\00:02:05.82
And one of the things is
that our church is going to go
00:02:05.86\00:02:11.66
through biblically predicted
trauma and drama as we seek
00:02:11.70\00:02:17.47
to walk the road
that leads to glory.
00:02:17.50\00:02:19.73
We shall we shaken.
00:02:19.76\00:02:21.67
We shall be tested by
things both without and within,
00:02:21.71\00:02:25.94
by physical things,
and spiritual things,
00:02:25.98\00:02:28.85
and by theological things.
00:02:28.88\00:02:30.74
Issues that perhaps we
thought were settled will be
00:02:30.78\00:02:33.66
resurfaced and re-agitated
as we seek to order ourselves
00:02:33.70\00:02:37.72
and get ourselves ready for
the second coming of our Lord
00:02:37.75\00:02:41.74
and Savior Jesus Christ.
00:02:41.78\00:02:43.73
Let me welcome you to
3ABN Today Live, my name is
00:02:43.76\00:02:46.74
C. A. Murray and allow
me to thank you please once
00:02:46.78\00:02:50.34
again for sharing this
part of your day with us.
00:02:50.38\00:02:53.88
We've got two hours to be
together to wrestle with some of
00:02:53.91\00:02:57.10
these things that the church
is facing in these last days.
00:02:57.13\00:03:00.62
We have brought in, dare I
say, an expert, someone who has
00:03:00.65\00:03:04.10
dedicated his life to
the study of the word of God.
00:03:04.14\00:03:08.34
And has brought forth from
that study jewels and pearls
00:03:08.37\00:03:12.14
that we will try to mine this
very night as we wrestle with
00:03:12.18\00:03:15.91
an issue that is one of
the issues that is facing the
00:03:15.94\00:03:18.90
church in these last days.
00:03:18.93\00:03:21.01
Over these last several weeks,
months, years we've talked
00:03:21.05\00:03:24.38
about a number of
things including creation.
00:03:24.42\00:03:26.23
We saw a number of things happen
at the General Conference.
00:03:26.27\00:03:29.42
There are a number of things
that the church is going to
00:03:29.45\00:03:32.57
have to wrestle with yet
again as we perfect ourselves,
00:03:32.61\00:03:36.09
as we work on being
the kind of people that
00:03:36.12\00:03:38.81
God wants us to be.
00:03:38.85\00:03:40.26
My guest is Dr. Ron Dupreez.
00:03:40.30\00:03:41.92
Ron, good to have you here.
00:03:41.95\00:03:43.54
Good to be here.
00:03:43.57\00:03:44.88
Well, be brought him in
to talk about the feasts.
00:03:44.92\00:03:46.97
We're going to be
talking about feast keeping
00:03:47.00\00:03:49.01
and feast days.
00:03:49.05\00:03:50.25
So this is one of those
kinds of programs we're going to
00:03:50.28\00:03:53.21
talk about theology.
00:03:53.25\00:03:54.87
It's a theologically based
program no one can get away
00:03:54.90\00:03:56.75
from it, so why don't
you grab a pen or pencil,
00:03:56.79\00:03:58.85
a typewriter, a
computer, iPod, iPad,
00:03:58.89\00:04:01.96
whatever you want to take notes.
00:04:02.00\00:04:03.89
You will want to take
notes on this particular program
00:04:03.93\00:04:06.53
because this is a phenomena
that the church is facing.
00:04:06.56\00:04:09.07
Now, we want to sort of
ease into this by saying a
00:04:09.10\00:04:11.19
couple of things.
00:04:11.22\00:04:12.19
One, it is not
our intention to deify
00:04:12.22\00:04:16.64
or demonize anyone.
00:04:16.67\00:04:19.43
We are not going to lift
up our friends and tear down
00:04:19.46\00:04:21.85
our enemies because that
is not what God asks us to do
00:04:21.88\00:04:24.23
during these last days.
00:04:24.26\00:04:25.23
He asks us to do everything in
love and a Christ-like spirit.
00:04:25.24\00:04:28.25
And yet, there are issues
that the church must face.
00:04:28.28\00:04:31.64
When we think that
something is error or mistake,
00:04:31.68\00:04:34.97
we need to say that without
saying that the people who
00:04:35.00\00:04:38.28
hold that belief however
passionately are wrong or bad
00:04:38.32\00:04:41.56
or evil or malevolent.
00:04:41.59\00:04:42.91
There are some very good
people who have some ideas that
00:04:42.94\00:04:47.64
do not totally line up with
the weight of biblical evidence.
00:04:47.68\00:04:52.34
So we are going to talk
about the weight of biblical
00:04:52.37\00:04:56.29
evidence, not attempting
to demonize or destroy any
00:04:56.32\00:05:00.21
person or persons, we
are going to just look
00:05:00.24\00:05:03.09
at the Bible doctrine.
00:05:03.13\00:05:04.12
I think the good Doctor agrees
with me on that. - Absolutely!
00:05:04.15\00:05:07.41
We just want to see,
"What does the Bible say?"
00:05:07.45\00:05:08.87
Now, I need to pay you a
compliment because you've been
00:05:08.91\00:05:12.30
here before and whenever
you talk about Bible subjects
00:05:12.34\00:05:15.69
your face kind of lights up.
00:05:15.73\00:05:17.79
You know there is this joy that
sort of emanates from your face.
00:05:17.83\00:05:21.25
You really like what you do.
00:05:21.29\00:05:22.89
Absolutely, I love digging
deeply into the written word.
00:05:22.93\00:05:27.23
It helps me to get to see
the living word of Christ and
00:05:27.27\00:05:30.89
of course, He says He came
to give us life more abundant.
00:05:30.92\00:05:34.50
What's there not to smile about?
00:05:34.54\00:05:36.35
What's there not
to be joyous about?
00:05:36.39\00:05:38.50
Praise the Lord.
00:05:38.53\00:05:39.80
Admittedly it steps on our
toes, the Word does sometimes.
00:05:39.83\00:05:42.39
That helps us to
develop character so we reflect
00:05:42.42\00:05:45.22
the love of Jesus.
00:05:45.26\00:05:47.33
So this night, this is
not going to be a sad, morose,
00:05:47.36\00:05:50.15
dry theological
treatise or opus not at all.
00:05:50.18\00:05:53.39
We're going to open up the
Word of God and let the light
00:05:53.42\00:05:55.26
of Christ's love shine from the
Word and illuminate our past.
00:05:55.29\00:05:58.81
And we've got someone who's
spent a good part of his life
00:05:58.85\00:06:02.33
studying the Word of God.
00:06:02.37\00:06:03.43
Were I to give you his
degrees, and I will do that;
00:06:03.46\00:06:05.59
he is a Th. D., a D.
MIN working on a Ph. D.
00:06:05.62\00:06:08.48
So he's got, as my
friend says, more degrees
00:06:08.51\00:06:11.33
than a thermometer.
00:06:11.37\00:06:12.93
And, dare I say, he's an
African American. - Absolutely!
00:06:12.96\00:06:17.93
He is more African
American than I am, having
00:06:17.96\00:06:20.50
been born in South
Africa. - That's correct.
00:06:20.53\00:06:23.07
Holding now dual
citizenship, South Africa and
00:06:23.11\00:06:25.62
the United States of America.
00:06:25.65\00:06:26.96
Sometimes I tell
people three citizenships.
00:06:27.00\00:06:29.10
The Bible says my real
citizenship is in heaven.
00:06:29.14\00:06:32.33
Is in heaven, amen.
00:06:32.37\00:06:33.58
So, I have these two
earthly ones and then of
00:06:33.61\00:06:34.99
course, the real citizenship,
that's correct and of course
00:06:35.02\00:06:38.28
the American citizenship
through my wife who was born
00:06:38.32\00:06:40.69
and raised in Texas.
00:06:40.73\00:06:41.95
In Texas, amen.
00:06:41.99\00:06:43.44
So you have a couple
African Americans sitting here,
00:06:43.48\00:06:46.05
praise the Lord, who
both owe their allegiance and
00:06:46.08\00:06:48.59
citizenship in heaven and
that's what brings us together
00:06:48.62\00:06:51.65
and those are the kind of
things we want to deal with and
00:06:51.68\00:06:54.68
wrestle with this very evening.
00:06:54.71\00:06:56.42
Before we un-package his
story, and I want to talk him
00:06:56.46\00:06:58.63
little bit about his
personal journey because that is
00:06:58.67\00:07:00.81
one of interest also.
00:07:00.85\00:07:01.96
Before we sort of loose him
and let him go into tonight's
00:07:01.99\00:07:05.16
subject we've got
some special music.
00:07:05.20\00:07:07.13
Herman and Sonny Harp are
standing in the wings as it were
00:07:07.17\00:07:12.32
and are going to be singing
00:07:12.35\00:07:14.52
"The Wayfaring Stranger" medley.
00:07:14.55\00:07:18.17
I'm just a poor
wayfaring stranger.
00:07:25.83\00:07:34.99
Just traveling
through this world of woe.
00:07:37.37\00:07:46.69
There is no
sickness, no toil, nor danger
00:07:50.96\00:08:00.01
in that bright
land to which I go.
00:08:02.83\00:08:12.18
I'm going back to see my Jesus.
00:08:14.60\00:08:23.96
I'm going there no more to roam,
00:08:26.96\00:08:36.51
to roam.
00:08:38.00\00:08:40.24
I'm just going over Jordan,
00:08:40.27\00:08:49.62
I'm just a
going, I'm going home.
00:08:51.92\00:09:01.34
I want Jesus to walk with me.
00:09:05.25\00:09:13.57
I want Jesus to walk with me!
00:09:16.70\00:09:25.99
All along my pilgrim journey.
00:09:29.59\00:09:39.26
Lord, I want
Jesus to walk with me.
00:09:41.64\00:09:49.62
I'm just a poor
wayfaring stranger
00:09:53.44\00:10:02.26
but I'm going, I'm going home.
00:10:06.62\00:10:16.47
Amen, well done,
Herman and Sonny Harp.
00:10:45.19\00:10:47.28
"Wayfaring Stranger" medley.
00:10:47.31\00:10:49.28
Really well done.
00:10:49.31\00:10:50.28
Ron and I were talking
during the break just before we
00:10:50.29\00:10:53.47
came out and discovered
that we were at the seminary at
00:10:53.50\00:10:56.89
the same time at
Andrew's University. - Right
00:10:56.92\00:10:59.72
And, I suspect, sat in
some of the same classes
00:10:59.75\00:11:02.10
and may not have known
that. But in the same years,
00:11:02.13\00:11:05.23
we won't say precisely
what years but they were
00:11:05.26\00:11:08.77
indeed the same years.
00:11:08.80\00:11:09.89
Just to get into a little
bit of background before we
00:11:09.92\00:11:11.38
head into our
discussion of the feasts.
00:11:11.41\00:11:13.04
We will give out some
information in just a little bit
00:11:13.07\00:11:17.62
because I suspect that our
discussion will occasion some
00:11:17.65\00:11:21.09
questions some comments
some concerns from you and we
00:11:21.12\00:11:25.12
will give out some information
so that you can give us
00:11:25.15\00:11:27.57
some questions and as
time allows in the second half,
00:11:27.60\00:11:30.34
we'll try to address and
redress some of those issues
00:11:30.37\00:11:32.98
that you may have.
00:11:33.01\00:11:33.98
But we're dealing with an
issue, very, very contemporary,
00:11:33.99\00:11:36.80
is one that the church is
facing and looking at today and
00:11:36.83\00:11:39.35
wrestling with just a
bit so we want to give you an
00:11:39.38\00:11:42.22
opportunity to sort of
weigh in on this subject before
00:11:42.25\00:11:44.70
our night is done.
00:11:44.73\00:11:46.92
Born in South
Africa, Adventist home?
00:11:46.95\00:11:49.34
Yes, correct,
Adventist home I tell people you
00:11:49.37\00:11:52.59
are never born an
Adventist, you're born
00:11:52.62\00:11:54.18
in an Adventist
home. - Precisely.
00:11:54.21\00:11:55.53
I became one by choice
and thank God for parents
00:11:55.56\00:11:58.68
who gave me a good direction
and was just fortunate.
00:11:58.71\00:12:04.02
I also had a lot of
Seventh Day Adventist schooling,
00:12:04.05\00:12:06.95
not all, I
studied outside as well.
00:12:06.98\00:12:09.63
I'm currently studying at
a state university under a
00:12:09.66\00:12:13.73
Dutch Reformed professor.
00:12:13.76\00:12:16.04
I've had both inside and
outside of the church structure.
00:12:16.07\00:12:19.61
Now you say you became
one by choice, about what
00:12:19.64\00:12:21.58
time in your life did it
occur to you that you sort of
00:12:21.61\00:12:23.73
needed one on one,
slowly or traumatically?
00:12:23.76\00:12:25.96
Well, make a long
story short, when my friends
00:12:25.99\00:12:29.10
got baptized when they were
about twelve I just jumped in
00:12:29.13\00:12:31.55
as well, you know.
00:12:31.58\00:12:33.17
But never really gave
my heart to the Lord then.
00:12:33.20\00:12:35.12
It was about twenty-four,
twenty-five when I really
00:12:35.15\00:12:38.44
actually accepted and made
a personal commitment to Jesus
00:12:38.47\00:12:42.56
Christ as a result of an
incredible series of events.
00:12:42.59\00:12:44.96
Long story but that's
what I consider my real
00:12:44.99\00:12:48.36
commitment to Jesus.
00:12:48.39\00:12:50.02
And that ironically happened
only after I had finished
00:12:50.05\00:12:53.06
four years of theology.
00:12:53.09\00:12:54.31
I tell people I was a
college theology graduate
00:12:54.34\00:12:57.75
who didn't know Jesus.
00:12:57.78\00:12:59.30
And only subsequently
did I give my heart to Him
00:13:00.43\00:13:02.12
and have had a wonderful growing
relationship 30 years more.
00:13:02.15\00:13:06.21
I think I fall
into the same category.
00:13:06.24\00:13:08.20
You can have a technical
working knowledge of the Bible
00:13:08.23\00:13:11.41
and of theological concepts
and really not have a working
00:13:11.44\00:13:15.03
relationship
with Christ. - Right!
00:13:15.06\00:13:17.03
Was it a dramatic
incident or just a dawning
00:13:17.06\00:13:20.14
upon you that you ...
00:13:20.17\00:13:21.14
For me it was a
dramatic incident where the
00:13:21.15\00:13:23.53
Lord answered my prayer in
a phenomenal way, and it takes
00:13:23.56\00:13:25.94
a whole half an hour
just to tell the story.
00:13:25.97\00:13:27.59
But, the only time I
ever talked to the Lord was at
00:13:27.62\00:13:31.07
mealtimes, a short grace.
00:13:31.10\00:13:32.94
This time when I was in the
foxhole as they say, I turned
00:13:32.97\00:13:36.23
to the Lord and
said, I need help!
00:13:36.26\00:13:38.06
The Lord just didn't answer
the prayer, but overwhelmed
00:13:38.09\00:13:40.96
me with His grace and I knew
He was trying to get through
00:13:40.99\00:13:43.40
what they sometimes call
a "gospel hardened person. "
00:13:43.43\00:13:46.11
This is when we search
week after week and maybe
00:13:46.14\00:13:49.85
in the back row.
00:13:49.88\00:13:51.08
God just
overwhelmed me with His answer.
00:13:51.11\00:13:53.19
He didn't just
provide my needs, He provided
00:13:53.22\00:13:54.94
beyond my wants even.
00:13:54.97\00:13:56.65
And when I saw that, I
said, Okay, Lord, okay.
00:13:56.68\00:13:59.02
Yes, I get it! Thank
You for being so good to me!
00:13:59.05\00:14:01.77
Forgive me now,
because the reporter in
00:14:01.80\00:14:03.80
me now has turned on.
00:14:03.83\00:14:05.67
Is it something you can
sort of share within a broad
00:14:05.70\00:14:08.12
context? I'm just curious.
00:14:08.15\00:14:09.84
Okay, I'll give it
two or three minutes.
00:14:09.87\00:14:12.18
I was living in South Africa
as you probably would know
00:14:12.21\00:14:17.00
by now, I was in my
twenties, my early twenties.
00:14:17.03\00:14:18.92
My Mom got very ill and
we didn't have telephones,
00:14:18.95\00:14:21.61
cell phones back then.
00:14:21.64\00:14:22.85
And to make a long story
short when she got ill and I
00:14:22.88\00:14:25.85
was a thousand miles away,
I didn't know what happened.
00:14:25.88\00:14:27.86
I didn't have any way to
get home so I turned to God and
00:14:27.89\00:14:31.98
I said, "God, I need
to get home urgently. "
00:14:32.01\00:14:33.78
Because I'm very close to
my Mom and I wanted to make
00:14:33.81\00:14:36.22
sure I could see her
before she dies because I didn't
00:14:36.25\00:14:38.26
know what was happening. - Yes!
00:14:38.29\00:14:40.02
And that's when I
ended up hitchhiking and I
00:14:40.05\00:14:43.83
got a ride with my cousin
for the first one third of the
00:14:43.86\00:14:46.30
journey and then about 600
miles not only did a car stop,
00:14:46.33\00:14:49.51
it turned out to
be a Mercedes Benz.
00:14:49.54\00:14:51.60
Now this was back when
hitchhiking was quite safe still
00:14:53.40\00:14:56.82
It was a Mercedes Benz,
a brand new Mercedes Benz!
00:14:56.85\00:14:59.18
And it just, like, Wow Lord, You
answered the prayer incredibly!
00:14:59.21\00:15:03.32
And then the guy
asked me to drive!
00:15:03.35\00:15:05.49
And, you know, how much
better, I'm in my twenties
00:15:05.52\00:15:08.52
and not only that he fed me.
00:15:08.55\00:15:10.59
He just stopped and
buy whatever you want.
00:15:10.62\00:15:12.26
I happen to have some cassette
tapes of Adventist singers
00:15:12.29\00:15:14.90
with me and I popped them
in and I found myself driving
00:15:14.93\00:15:16.98
myself in a brand new
Mercedes Benz, listening to
00:15:17.01\00:15:20.04
Seventh Day Adventist music.
00:15:20.07\00:15:21.97
That just kind of overwhelmed
me and I got home that
00:15:22.00\00:15:24.26
evening and I, okay, Lord, okay.
00:15:24.29\00:15:25.87
Tomorrow morning,
00:15:25.90\00:15:27.22
You know, it was around
midnight, Tomorrow morning,
00:15:27.25\00:15:29.07
I will start to serve You.
00:15:29.10\00:15:31.35
You're such a good God and
I will tomorrow morning start
00:15:31.38\00:15:34.18
spending time in Your Word.
00:15:34.21\00:15:36.87
That was the key turning
point that I began to read the
00:15:36.90\00:15:39.39
Bible and God willing by
the end of this year I will have
00:15:39.42\00:15:42.94
had the privilege of going
through His Word thirty times,
00:15:42.97\00:15:46.93
thirty different
versions. - Praise God.
00:15:46.96\00:15:49.92
So that's what I'm just
flooded with the wonders
00:15:49.95\00:15:53.37
of God's grace.
00:15:53.40\00:15:54.83
Isn't it amazing how
God will give you just what
00:15:54.86\00:15:56.48
you need when you need it
to sort of open your eyes and
00:15:56.51\00:15:59.15
let you know of His
love and His care for you...
00:15:59.18\00:16:00.89
That's right. -
Praise God, praise God.
00:16:00.92\00:16:02.78
So you finished your
work in South Africa?
00:16:02.81\00:16:04.58
Yes, well, I was just
doing secular work raising
00:16:04.61\00:16:07.64
money to come to the
states to go into school.
00:16:07.67\00:16:09.50
Which was when I didn't
meet you but we were in the
00:16:09.53\00:16:12.30
seminary at the same time there.
00:16:12.33\00:16:13.52
Studied there, went to
Korea as a student missionary.
00:16:13.55\00:16:16.74
Linda, who was a student
at Union College, Nebraska,
00:16:16.77\00:16:21.11
she went to Korea a
few weeks after I did.
00:16:21.14\00:16:23.99
I met her there
both as missionaries.
00:16:24.02\00:16:25.97
We ended up getting married
and going back to Korea later
00:16:26.00\00:16:28.98
on as director
of language schools.
00:16:29.01\00:16:30.98
And we went to Japan and
Guam and later on we went to
00:16:31.01\00:16:33.92
Zimbabwe as missionaries,
and we went to Peru.
00:16:33.95\00:16:37.26
So we worked in different
countries around the world as
00:16:37.29\00:16:39.41
missionaries and
right now in Michigan.
00:16:39.44\00:16:42.14
That's where I am
currently located.
00:16:42.17\00:16:43.81
Communications
director right now in
00:16:43.84\00:16:45.36
the Michigan conference.
00:16:45.39\00:16:46.86
Yea, communications director.
00:16:46.89\00:16:48.18
When did this hunger
for biblical knowledge,
00:16:48.21\00:16:50.15
you've got several degrees.
00:16:50.18\00:16:52.23
You are as qualified as
any communications director
00:16:52.26\00:16:54.40
that I know.
00:16:54.43\00:16:55.50
That THD is a
tough degree to get.
00:16:55.53\00:16:57.45
They don't give away a T.H.D.
00:16:57.48\00:16:58.88
And the D. Min., and
finishing up your Ph. D.
00:16:58.91\00:17:01.06
When did this hunger for
knowledge in the Word of God
00:17:01.09\00:17:04.53
and understanding,
where did that come from?
00:17:04.56\00:17:06.78
Well, oh, probably, I
have never thought about
00:17:06.81\00:17:10.21
this very much except that
when I started digging into
00:17:10.24\00:17:12.56
the word after that
conversion experience, after the
00:17:12.59\00:17:15.41
hitchhiking I began to
read my Bible faithfully.
00:17:15.44\00:17:18.67
I began to carry little Bibles
with me to give away to people.
00:17:18.70\00:17:20.96
Not only did I
want to get to know it,
00:17:20.99\00:17:22.61
I wanted to share it.
00:17:22.64\00:17:23.61
And I would trace it back to
the 70's when I was converted.
00:17:23.62\00:17:28.39
In fact my first opportunity
I had I turned around and
00:17:28.42\00:17:31.16
went back down to Cape
Town to see my best friend,
00:17:31.19\00:17:33.71
to spend a weekend
with him to tell him what
00:17:33.74\00:17:35.48
God has done in my life.
00:17:35.51\00:17:36.69
So I made another two
thousand mile round trip just to
00:17:36.72\00:17:39.39
go tell him my story.
00:17:39.42\00:17:41.19
And the Word became so
important and ever since then
00:17:41.22\00:17:45.02
I've seen the need
to dig into the word.
00:17:45.05\00:17:47.19
It fills my soul, it's
fascinating, and of course
00:17:47.22\00:17:51.86
it lifts up Jesus
Christ and helps me to become a
00:17:51.89\00:17:54.87
better person for His glory.
00:17:54.90\00:17:56.89
Right, praise God.
00:17:56.92\00:17:57.98
So I would trace it
back to that conversion
00:17:58.01\00:17:59.75
and that desire to know Jesus.
00:17:59.78\00:18:02.74
When you began was it
a desire to have so you
00:18:04.20\00:18:07.28
could share or a desire for
just personal enrichment that
00:18:07.31\00:18:10.63
sort of sent you to the Word?
00:18:10.66\00:18:12.24
I would say personal
enrichment but one the
00:18:12.27\00:18:13.97
personal enrichment I was
so filled, I couldn't be quiet.
00:18:14.00\00:18:16.98
I don't know, my best
buddy, in fact I went a thousand
00:18:18.52\00:18:21.51
miles down back to Cape
Town from Johannesburg and spent
00:18:21.54\00:18:24.96
the entire weekend with him.
00:18:24.99\00:18:26.35
We went into the mountains
just my best buddy and I.
00:18:26.38\00:18:28.49
And we just spent
there and I shared
00:18:28.52\00:18:30.22
with him my conversion. - Wow!
00:18:30.25\00:18:32.16
Just had to tell
him, but again, the moment
00:18:32.19\00:18:33.82
you dig into the
Word you've gotta share.
00:18:33.85\00:18:35.53
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:18:35.56\00:18:36.53
And different ones I
shared in different ways.
00:18:36.54\00:18:38.02
Some are
preachers, some are teachers.
00:18:38.05\00:18:39.86
Now I became a teacher and
of course I have been a Pastor
00:18:39.89\00:18:42.05
for several years and
some people are more quite.
00:18:42.08\00:18:45.00
They'll do it in
a quiet Bible study.
00:18:45.03\00:18:46.91
Some people will share the
Word more through their life.
00:18:46.94\00:18:50.21
But we all,
Christians are all called upon
00:18:50.24\00:18:52.99
to be missionaries.
00:18:53.02\00:18:55.27
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:18:55.30\00:18:57.08
What occasioned or
led you to this particular
00:18:57.11\00:19:00.72
concentration on the feasts?
00:19:00.75\00:19:02.72
You've delved into a number
of things including Sabbath.
00:19:02.75\00:19:06.33
We know you work in Colossians
and a number of things
00:19:06.36\00:19:09.07
you've really hit on.
00:19:09.10\00:19:10.57
But this is sort of
your current passion.
00:19:10.60\00:19:13.67
What sort of drove
you into that area?
00:19:13.70\00:19:15.27
What drove me?
00:19:15.30\00:19:16.44
I'll have to give
credit to this very place.
00:19:16.47\00:19:18.45
Because it was here in August
of 2007 when I was invited
00:19:18.48\00:19:24.57
to come and do a
Thursday Live presentation.
00:19:24.60\00:19:26.81
I was interviewed by
John Lomacang and we dealt
00:19:26.84\00:19:29.68
with Colossians 2:16. - Yes.
00:19:29.71\00:19:31.58
So I would have to
go back a little bit to
00:19:31.61\00:19:32.87
where that came from.
00:19:32.90\00:19:34.22
Just in brief, in
case people didn't
00:19:34.25\00:19:35.38
see that presentation.
00:19:35.41\00:19:36.83
It started in 1989 when I
was doing my Ph. D. work at
00:19:36.86\00:19:42.62
that time at Andrew's
University digging into the
00:19:42.65\00:19:45.01
topic of the
Sabbath, seventh day Sabbath.
00:19:45.04\00:19:49.12
And I came across
Colossians 2:16 which of course,
00:19:49.15\00:19:51.44
in a nutshell, in a summary
statement which says let no
00:19:51.47\00:19:54.75
man judge you concerning
food and drink, feasts,
00:19:54.78\00:19:58.94
new moons and Sabbaths.
00:19:58.97\00:20:00.46
In verse 17 these are all
a shadow of things to come.
00:20:00.49\00:20:03.15
The reality, the bodies
of Christ and just summarize
00:20:03.18\00:20:06.32
briefly the main ideas.
00:20:06.35\00:20:08.31
I looked into it and I
began to see that within the
00:20:08.34\00:20:11.07
Seventh Day Adventist
Church there was a main idea but
00:20:11.10\00:20:14.21
there were some people
going in different directions
00:20:14.24\00:20:16.07
and so that caught my attention.
00:20:16.10\00:20:17.79
I decided to
write a paper on it.
00:20:17.82\00:20:19.29
I began in '89 and I
wrote a hundred pages and out of
00:20:19.32\00:20:22.78
that grew my
interest in this topic.
00:20:22.81\00:20:24.27
And eventually I applied
for a Ph. D. on this and I'm
00:20:24.30\00:20:27.37
busy working on
that as we speak.
00:20:27.40\00:20:29.17
Lord willing to be
done next year 2011.
00:20:29.20\00:20:32.52
And then 3ABN asked me to
come and present on Colossians
00:20:32.55\00:20:36.85
2:16 what I have been studying.
00:20:36.88\00:20:38.35
Now to make a long story
short eventually Andrew's
00:20:38.38\00:20:40.80
University Press
asked and they came and
00:20:40.83\00:20:42.79
they published this book.
00:20:42.82\00:20:44.29
I'm not advertising it
but this is the book that
00:20:44.32\00:20:45.73
Andrew's University
did from that study here.
00:20:45.76\00:20:49.40
And so this is AU Press
and they asked me to write the
00:20:49.43\00:20:52.92
manuscript for them so
they could share it with
00:20:52.95\00:20:55.12
all I shared here.
00:20:55.15\00:20:56.57
Of course if people
do want it, it is called
00:20:56.60\00:20:58.30
'Judging The Sabbath'.
00:20:58.33\00:20:59.30
- 'Judging The Sabbath', yea.
00:20:59.31\00:21:00.33
And Andrew's University
Press did this book for
00:21:00.36\00:21:01.92
the topic that I
presented here at 3ABN.
00:21:01.95\00:21:05.24
And of course they promote
the book and it's interesting.
00:21:05.27\00:21:09.03
But from there ...
00:21:09.06\00:21:11.00
Yea, what happened?
00:21:11.03\00:21:12.46
When the call in and
the questions came after
00:21:12.49\00:21:15.86
the presentation that second
hour, all kinds of questions
00:21:15.89\00:21:19.61
came and we tried to stay on
our topic, however afterwards
00:21:19.64\00:21:24.94
because my name had
been up there and my address.
00:21:24.97\00:21:26.92
I got lots of material I
have some with me here, that was
00:21:26.95\00:21:29.67
sent by Seventh Day Adventists
who disagreed because I had
00:21:29.70\00:21:34.76
tangentially mentioned, if
my memory serves me, that not
00:21:34.79\00:21:38.37
only does this deal with
ceremonial Sabbaths, and we
00:21:38.40\00:21:41.21
will get to that later on,
but also there's the feasts
00:21:41.24\00:21:43.32
and the new moons.
00:21:43.35\00:21:44.35
I suggested that these
were all things that pointed to
00:21:44.38\00:21:46.69
Christ and because He
came, we don't do them anymore.
00:21:46.72\00:21:50.14
And so I got lots of
material from feast keepers.
00:21:50.17\00:21:52.38
That's how it got
me into this topic.
00:21:52.41\00:21:54.19
Ah, ha, so you sort of
backed into this by really
00:21:54.22\00:21:56.94
an obiter dictum kind of
statement, just kind of a throw
00:21:56.97\00:22:00.22
away statement that was
included in a broader context.
00:22:00.25\00:22:02.22
- Correct. So that sort
of set you careening down
00:22:02.25\00:22:03.91
this pathway as it were.
00:22:03.94\00:22:05.07
Exactly! And then I
began to get CDs and DVDs,
00:22:05.10\00:22:09.40
and books, materials
and eventually I began to
00:22:09.43\00:22:14.07
study and to read it.
00:22:14.10\00:22:15.15
And then I began to
meet feast keepers. - Yes.
00:22:15.18\00:22:17.45
Some of them directly,
some of them on the phone
00:22:17.48\00:22:18.86
and of course, from
there on I was then invited
00:22:18.89\00:22:21.85
by feast keepers also.
00:22:21.88\00:22:23.54
And I ended up going
to what we call a feast
00:22:23.57\00:22:25.66
keeping camp meeting.
00:22:25.69\00:22:27.35
And I met some
wonderful feast keepers.
00:22:27.38\00:22:29.89
Now, the feast keepers, I
want to say, those Seventh Day
00:22:29.92\00:22:32.07
Adventist feast keepers
I've met, they are not what we
00:22:32.10\00:22:34.20
would consider
liberal cultural Adventists.
00:22:34.23\00:22:37.28
No, they are committed to
the Bible, they deep students,
00:22:37.31\00:22:41.02
they want to dig into the word.
00:22:41.05\00:22:42.54
They are passionate,
they love studying the Bible.
00:22:42.57\00:22:45.97
And I had had one wonderful
experience out at a feast
00:22:46.00\00:22:49.71
keeping camp
meeting, I was blessed.
00:22:49.74\00:22:51.15
There was vibrant music,
it was reverent, it was alive
00:22:51.18\00:22:54.53
and it was a kind of
old time camp meeting.
00:22:54.56\00:22:58.43
But it was a wonderful
experience in meeting and
00:22:58.46\00:23:01.96
spending time with them.
00:23:01.99\00:23:02.96
And that's how I got into it.
00:23:02.99\00:23:04.36
And I began to study,
to dig into research and
00:23:04.39\00:23:06.82
I'm still learning.
00:23:06.85\00:23:07.96
- Yes, yes, yes.
00:23:07.99\00:23:09.01
So when we talk we are not
judging anybody's Christianity.
00:23:09.04\00:23:12.98
We are not judging anybody's
relationship or love for the
00:23:13.01\00:23:15.52
Lord because these people,
as you have rightly said,
00:23:15.55\00:23:20.29
are not fringe, they are
not wild, they're not off.
00:23:20.32\00:23:24.34
They are people who
believe in the Word of God.
00:23:24.37\00:23:27.65
And are people who
have a very strong passion
00:23:27.68\00:23:31.92
for their beliefs. - Correct.
00:23:31.95\00:23:33.90
Having said that we
need to let the weight of
00:23:33.93\00:23:37.93
biblical
evidence stand for itself.
00:23:37.96\00:23:39.97
Which is what we are
attempting to do tonight.
00:23:40.00\00:23:42.29
So let's launch
out into our subject.
00:23:42.32\00:23:46.04
Give us if you will, good
Doctor, some background on the
00:23:46.07\00:23:51.39
feasts and the argument in
its broadest terms as it is
00:23:51.42\00:23:57.27
being postulated today.
00:23:57.30\00:23:58.83
Can I by introducing
this whole issue, one of
00:23:58.86\00:24:02.40
the things that caught my
attention was the commitment
00:24:02.43\00:24:05.73
that Seventh Day Adventist
feast keepers have to it.
00:24:05.76\00:24:08.34
And I cannot say they
all believe exactly the same,
00:24:08.37\00:24:11.63
but I've seen some things
that are consistent in many of
00:24:11.66\00:24:14.20
the writings or
their presentations.
00:24:14.23\00:24:16.31
One of which is as follows:
they have said that at the end
00:24:16.34\00:24:20.07
of time we, as Seventh Day
Adventists, must keep not only
00:24:20.10\00:24:23.69
the seventh day Sabbath that's
in the Bible, but also all
00:24:23.72\00:24:26.50
of the holy days.
00:24:26.53\00:24:28.46
The ceremonial, what we
sometimes call ceremonial
00:24:28.49\00:24:30.67
Sabbaths, or the annual
Sabbaths, the feasts, Pentecost,
00:24:30.70\00:24:36.33
Passover, these
all need to be kept.
00:24:36.36\00:24:38.36
All of these holy days must
be kept and if you don't keep
00:24:38.39\00:24:41.77
them, then you
will be lost ultimately.
00:24:41.80\00:24:45.96
So not only is salvation tied
in, now they say this is not
00:24:45.99\00:24:49.60
salvific,
however you will be lost.
00:24:49.63\00:24:52.50
That makes it de-facto salvific!
00:24:52.53\00:24:53.95
If you don't keep these things.
00:24:53.98\00:24:55.37
These are important, at
least at the end of time.
00:24:55.40\00:24:57.78
And of course, this
gets my attention and I start
00:24:57.81\00:24:59.52
digging into the text.
00:24:59.55\00:25:00.64
Why is it so important?
00:25:00.67\00:25:02.44
And I will admit that
as I began to reflect on it
00:25:02.47\00:25:05.36
I realized that some of my
own explanation and study of
00:25:05.39\00:25:09.04
the scripture had not
been as careful until I got
00:25:09.07\00:25:12.13
to know feast keepers.
00:25:12.16\00:25:13.38
They really helped me to
be a much more careful and
00:25:13.41\00:25:15.09
articulate, hopefully,
presenter of the word.
00:25:15.12\00:25:18.44
I used to use terms loosely.
00:25:18.47\00:25:19.72
The ceremonial law, the
Mosaic Law, but as I talked
00:25:19.75\00:25:22.53
to the feast
keepers I found that I must
00:25:22.56\00:25:23.93
be much more precise.
00:25:23.96\00:25:25.96
And so this was helpful in
my journey in understanding.
00:25:25.99\00:25:29.47
Now I actually had a journey,
literally, I was driving
00:25:29.50\00:25:33.14
from California coming
back from Michigan to work in
00:25:33.17\00:25:35.58
Michigan and after having
met with the feast keepers,
00:25:35.61\00:25:37.77
having spent time with
them, many of the thoughts and
00:25:37.80\00:25:40.92
questions they raised
began to come to mind.
00:25:40.96\00:25:43.18
So I drove from California
down to Phoenix and from
00:25:43.22\00:25:46.44
Phoenix all the way back to
Michigan up alone in the car.
00:25:46.47\00:25:49.97
My wife was already in Michigan.
00:25:50.00\00:25:51.29
And that, what, two,
three thousand mile journey was
00:25:51.32\00:25:54.04
another journey.
00:25:54.07\00:25:55.04
And since I was alone a
lot of these things were
00:25:55.05\00:25:56.83
going through my head.
00:25:56.86\00:25:58.02
And so I had a double journey.
00:25:58.05\00:25:59.50
I had a theological
journey as I was having
00:25:59.53\00:26:01.65
a literal journey.
00:26:01.68\00:26:03.18
And so part of what
I did was I reflected.
00:26:03.21\00:26:05.48
I'm going to ask if we can
put up our first power point
00:26:05.51\00:26:09.28
presentation because there's
a slide that briefly shows
00:26:09.31\00:26:12.15
you the
questions I had in my mind.
00:26:12.18\00:26:13.84
There were five questions
that I began to ask myself and
00:26:13.87\00:26:16.78
dealing with four
basic divine institutions.
00:26:16.81\00:26:20.63
Okay, you see, I asked the
when the why the how the for
00:26:20.66\00:26:23.97
whom till when dealing
with the seventh day Sabbath,
00:26:24.00\00:26:27.05
sacrifices, circumcision,
and sacred seasons.
00:26:27.08\00:26:30.50
And that was my journey.
00:26:30.53\00:26:32.27
As I traveled those thousands
of miles those were the
00:26:32.30\00:26:34.65
questions I asked.
00:26:34.69\00:26:35.77
- That you wrestled with.
00:26:35.81\00:26:36.78
Yes, I wrestled with
and I jot down a few notes
00:26:36.79\00:26:38.89
and the reason I began to
think about this is because I
00:26:38.93\00:26:42.37
used to just say, Oh,
the ceremonial system?
00:26:42.40\00:26:45.02
That started
with the Israelites.
00:26:45.05\00:26:46.97
And then somebody
said, you know, well what
00:26:47.00\00:26:48.86
about Adam and Eve?
00:26:48.89\00:26:49.86
Wasn't there a
sacrifice when they sinned?
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.24
Hummmm, and I began to
rethink and so as I journeyed
00:26:51.27\00:26:55.46
I began to think about this.
00:26:55.49\00:26:57.10
This was very
helpful; five questions, right?
00:26:57.13\00:27:00.19
Seven day Sabbath,
when was that established?
00:27:00.22\00:27:03.30
At creation.
00:27:03.33\00:27:04.93
Why? As a memorial.
00:27:04.96\00:27:08.51
Very clearly if you
study the Bible in context.
00:27:08.54\00:27:10.30
By whom? By God,
it's not astronomical.
00:27:10.33\00:27:13.38
You know, we have the
month, the year, and the day all
00:27:13.41\00:27:16.30
astronomical things, but
the Sabbath was set aside by
00:27:16.33\00:27:18.49
Divine fiat for whom?
00:27:18.52\00:27:20.24
Not for the Jews, but
for everybody until when?
00:27:20.27\00:27:23.92
And we know it goes all
the way through the new earth
00:27:23.95\00:27:26.10
and so I ask those questions.
00:27:26.13\00:27:28.31
You follow? And that was
what was going through my mind
00:27:28.34\00:27:30.74
and then I went to the next
one and I began to say, what
00:27:30.77\00:27:33.28
about the sacrifices?
00:27:33.31\00:27:36.01
What about circumcism
and then when I got to sacred
00:27:36.04\00:27:37.87
seasons I asked the
same five questions.
00:27:37.90\00:27:40.10
So I began to reflect on it
and then I began to dig into
00:27:40.13\00:27:42.81
the Bible to see if I
could find answers for
00:27:42.84\00:27:44.91
these important questions.
00:27:44.94\00:27:46.84
So that was part of
my journey that helped to
00:27:46.87\00:27:48.86
clarify all of this.
00:27:48.89\00:27:50.97
- Okay, the feast days
per se have specifics of
00:27:51.00\00:27:54.17
contextual reference.
00:27:54.20\00:27:56.33
- Right.
00:27:56.36\00:27:58.14
Who and why and
what was God trying to do
00:27:58.17\00:28:00.13
in their establishment?
00:28:00.16\00:28:01.74
That is what is so important.
00:28:01.77\00:28:03.30
I want to open up a
Bible and if anybody has their
00:28:03.33\00:28:04.96
Bibles where you
are and you're watching,
00:28:04.99\00:28:06.64
we're going to
Exodus 20:10 briefly.
00:28:06.67\00:28:10.12
Chapter twelve, this
is just a few verses.
00:28:10.15\00:28:12.85
Now this is a large
study as you well imagine and
00:28:12.88\00:28:15.81
I've been spending
quite a bit of time digging,
00:28:15.84\00:28:17.88
learning, researching,
but in Exodus 12 we will find.
00:28:17.91\00:28:21.74
I'm reading
from the NKJ version.
00:28:21.77\00:28:24.37
Exodus 12:25-27 just
those three versus maybe you can
00:28:24.40\00:28:29.45
read it, you read it.
00:28:29.48\00:28:30.45
I've got the NKJ,
what are you reading from?
00:28:30.46\00:28:31.96
I'm reading from,
what did I bring with me
00:28:31.99\00:28:33.56
today this is the King James.
00:28:33.59\00:28:34.84
Okay. Those three
versus Exodus 12:25-27.
00:28:34.87\00:28:38.39
"And it shall come to
pass when ye be come to
00:28:38.42\00:28:43.00
"the land which the Lord
will give you according as He
00:28:43.03\00:28:46.16
"hath promised that ye
shall keep this service.
00:28:46.19\00:28:49.24
"And it shall come to pass,"
00:28:49.27\00:28:50.99
I'm going to verse 26, "when
your children shall say unto
00:28:51.02\00:28:54.13
"you, 'What mean ye by this
service?'" 27 "That ye shall
00:28:54.16\00:28:58.34
"say, 'It is the sacrifice
of the Lord's Passover who
00:28:58.37\00:29:02.11
"passed over the houses of
the children of Israel in Egypt
00:29:02.14\00:29:05.72
"when He smote the Egyptians
and delivered our houses,'
00:29:05.75\00:29:08.91
"and the people bowed
the head and worshiped. "
00:29:08.94\00:29:12.69
Right. You see
it's when I came across
00:29:12.72\00:29:14.13
that, that is when it started.
00:29:14.16\00:29:15.77
I realized ah ha, this is
what God is telling through
00:29:15.80\00:29:19.47
Moses to tell the
children of Israel that
00:29:19.50\00:29:21.60
Passover started there.
00:29:21.63\00:29:23.89
Very interesting, so I
began to trace when it started,
00:29:23.92\00:29:26.71
why it was there?
00:29:26.74\00:29:28.42
Of course it was
instituted by God through Moses.
00:29:28.45\00:29:31.11
Who was it for? And those
are the questions I would ask.
00:29:31.14\00:29:34.37
It's very interesting; if
you study very carefully it
00:29:34.40\00:29:36.65
became more and more clear
that these were for Israelites.
00:29:36.68\00:29:40.48
Incidentally the Passover
was not to be celebrated by
00:29:40.51\00:29:43.32
anybody unless they
had been circumcised.
00:29:43.35\00:29:45.91
Now, it was the
Israelites, obviously,
00:29:45.94\00:29:48.28
and we know the Ishmaelite also.
00:29:48.31\00:29:50.29
We know that circumcision
started with Abraham and
00:29:50.32\00:29:52.97
Ishmael, and anybody
else who wanted to participate
00:29:53.00\00:29:55.07
had to be circumcised. - Yes.
00:29:55.10\00:29:57.06
So there's a restriction.
00:29:57.09\00:29:58.84
And of course, as you study
further you find out that all
00:29:58.87\00:30:01.80
males had to go to the central
temple in Jerusalem for the
00:30:01.83\00:30:05.46
Passover, unleavened
bread, the Pentecost,
00:30:05.49\00:30:07.95
for Tabernacles, so it was
also a location centered one.
00:30:07.98\00:30:11.55
So as I began to study, it
became more and more clear the
00:30:11.58\00:30:14.79
sacred seasons were set up
by God for the Israelites when
00:30:14.82\00:30:19.66
they came out of Egypt.
00:30:19.69\00:30:21.70
And so this became
part of, Ohhh, okay.
00:30:21.73\00:30:24.77
And so until when does this go?
00:30:24.80\00:30:26.66
So all of those
questions came to mind as
00:30:26.69\00:30:29.24
I began to delve.
00:30:29.27\00:30:30.99
- Indeed, indeed.
00:30:31.02\00:30:32.06
A term you used a couple
of times in the last several
00:30:32.09\00:30:34.31
moments 'sacred seasons,'
define that term for me,
00:30:34.34\00:30:38.15
if you will.
00:30:38.18\00:30:39.15
The word, term sacred
season, I haven't found
00:30:39.16\00:30:40.94
a better term myself.
00:30:40.97\00:30:43.06
I'm open to one.
00:30:43.09\00:30:44.13
Different people use different
language for and the reason
00:30:44.16\00:30:46.01
use the words sacred season.
00:30:46.04\00:30:47.22
There is a Hebrew word
called mo'ed and the mo'ed or
00:30:47.25\00:30:52.06
moa' deem which is the
plural for mo'ed, you know,
00:30:52.09\00:30:54.55
like you have cherubim
which is plural for cherub.
00:30:54.58\00:30:56.47
You have moa deem
which is plural for mo'ed.
00:30:56.50\00:30:59.12
That is an interesting
word, it appears about 220 times
00:30:59.15\00:31:01.79
in the old testament.
00:31:01.82\00:31:03.29
It's a word that
sometimes only means feast
00:31:03.32\00:31:07.48
or sacred season.
00:31:07.51\00:31:08.91
I don't like to use the
word feast because, by the way,
00:31:08.94\00:31:10.83
the word feast in and of
itself is a joyous occasion.
00:31:10.86\00:31:13.37
There is a separate specific
word for feast in the Hebrew
00:31:13.40\00:31:16.29
language when it deals with
the sacrificial system and so
00:31:16.32\00:31:20.20
forth, it's the word hagg,
very much like the word hajj.
00:31:20.23\00:31:23.62
The Muslims go
on a hajj to Mecca.
00:31:23.65\00:31:26.19
And this is the
same type of thing.
00:31:26.22\00:31:27.61
It's a pilgrimage feast.
00:31:27.64\00:31:29.60
It's a hajj, it's like the
Aramaic is close to the Hebrew
00:31:29.63\00:31:32.10
so it's a hajj or the
hagg and so that's the feast.
00:31:32.13\00:31:35.52
But the word mo'ed is a
broader term because it not only
00:31:35.55\00:31:38.82
includes Passover,
Pentecost, Tabernacles, it also
00:31:38.85\00:31:41.01
includes Trumpets, Day
of Trumpets and Atonement.
00:31:41.04\00:31:44.54
And the five and of
course the others are
00:31:44.57\00:31:47.22
included in there.
00:31:47.25\00:31:48.65
But these five,
Unleavened bread, but these
00:31:48.68\00:31:51.57
are not called feasts.
00:31:51.60\00:31:53.08
Actually, technically in
the Bible the Trumpets is never
00:31:53.11\00:31:55.98
called the Feast
of Trumpets, never,
00:31:56.01\00:31:57.59
it's the Day of Trumpets.
00:31:57.62\00:31:59.30
And they didn't have
to go up to Jerusalem.
00:31:59.33\00:32:01.34
It wasn't a pilgrimage feast.
00:32:01.37\00:32:02.77
- Yes, you have several
pilgrimage, the other ones
00:32:02.80\00:32:03.85
you could correctly call ...
00:32:03.88\00:32:05.36
Correct, and that's
why I use the words sacred
00:32:05.39\00:32:06.55
seasons in order to show,
I'm talking about all of them.
00:32:06.58\00:32:09.00
And the term sacred seasons,
I haven't found a better one
00:32:09.03\00:32:12.10
sometimes, in one of the Bibles
I have, it calls appointed
00:32:12.13\00:32:14.76
seasons, but the word mo'ed
most of the time actually means
00:32:14.79\00:32:18.69
the tent of meeting, it's
a congregation of meeting.
00:32:18.72\00:32:21.44
Sixty seven percent of the time,
it's translated by the King
00:32:21.47\00:32:24.73
James translators it's
simply the tent of meeting.
00:32:24.76\00:32:27.06
And even the Jewish Publication
Society they point out
00:32:27.09\00:32:30.42
that it's a place of
meeting, not the time.
00:32:30.45\00:32:33.25
But about twenty five,
twenty eight percent of the time
00:32:33.28\00:32:36.32
it deals with these moa' deem,
these sacred seasons. - Yea
00:32:36.35\00:32:39.65
And then dozens of
times the word mo'ed refers
00:32:39.68\00:32:42.67
to all kinds of other things.
00:32:42.70\00:32:44.02
The bird knows its appointed
season when it should fly
00:32:44.05\00:32:46.92
south for the winter
and it's a general term.
00:32:46.95\00:32:50.05
Dozens of time the word
mo'ed so actually the word mo'ed
00:32:50.08\00:32:52.94
does not mean
sacred season per se.
00:32:52.97\00:32:56.11
It has multiple meanings,
one of which about the quarter
00:32:56.14\00:32:59.62
of time means sacred season
or appointed time or set time.
00:32:59.65\00:33:04.24
That's why I tried to find
a term, but I haven't found
00:33:04.27\00:33:07.46
a better one other
than sacred seasons.
00:33:07.49\00:33:09.38
- Yes, yes.
00:33:09.41\00:33:10.38
I use the words sacred
seasons, to include all of
00:33:10.39\00:33:12.34
them other than the
seventh day Sabbath.
00:33:12.37\00:33:15.72
And the reason I use the
words sacred season for the
00:33:15.75\00:33:18.39
mo'ed, by the way, the
word mo'ed in the Hebrew Baruk
00:33:18.42\00:33:21.25
Lavene, Jewish scholar
has pointed out in the Jewish
00:33:21.28\00:33:24.71
publication Society commentary,
that the Sabbath is not a feast.
00:33:24.74\00:33:29.18
- Yes. Yes.
00:33:29.21\00:33:30.53
Because you see
mo'ed is a time that is set
00:33:30.56\00:33:33.26
annually, the Sabbath
is never set annually.
00:33:33.29\00:33:36.95
A mo'ed is set by the
sighting of the moon, Sabbath is
00:33:36.98\00:33:40.02
not set by the
sighting of the moon. - Ah ha.
00:33:40.05\00:33:41.35
And so actually it is
incorrect to refer to the
00:33:41.38\00:33:44.28
seventh day Sabbath as a feast.
00:33:44.31\00:33:46.48
So Sabbath is other
than the sacred seasons.
00:33:47.70\00:33:50.68
You are
pre-supposing my next question.
00:33:50.71\00:33:52.35
Because there are some who
would say well, if you do away
00:33:52.38\00:33:59.56
with the feasts then you
really have to do away with the
00:33:59.59\00:34:02.44
Sabbath because they're
intimately and integrally
00:34:02.47\00:34:04.83
connected and there
are some who say well the
00:34:04.86\00:34:08.50
Sabbath is done away also.
00:34:08.53\00:34:10.42
How do you sort of wrestle
or work you way through that?
00:34:10.45\00:34:13.35
Oh, that's a large question.
00:34:13.38\00:34:15.32
One of the best ways is we
go back to Genesis 1 and 2 just
00:34:15.35\00:34:19.05
to remind the folks go
back to Genesis 2 end of chapter
00:34:19.08\00:34:21.81
1:31 and then Genesis
2 talks about the verse 1
00:34:21.84\00:34:26.72
Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens
and the earth and all the
00:34:26.75\00:34:29.64
hosts of them were finished. "
00:34:29.67\00:34:31.31
This is the creation story.
00:34:31.34\00:34:32.94
"And on the seventh day
God ended His work which He had
00:34:32.97\00:34:35.41
"done and He rested on the
seventh day from all His work
00:34:35.44\00:34:37.42
"which He had done. Then
God blessed the seventh day and
00:34:37.45\00:34:40.29
"sanctified it because in
it He rested from all His work
00:34:40.32\00:34:42.69
"which God had
created and made. "
00:34:42.72\00:34:44.27
We know this is the
setting up of the Sabbath.
00:34:44.30\00:34:45.82
Now we know there is no
direct command given there but
00:34:45.85\00:34:48.80
we know that God set it
up, and how do we know for sure
00:34:48.83\00:34:51.04
it was a command?
00:34:51.07\00:34:52.13
Because when we get to
Exodus and the Ten Commandments
00:34:52.16\00:34:53.89
smack bang in the heart and
literally it is actually this
00:34:53.92\00:34:57.11
is a fascinating thing when
you study the Hebrew the Ten
00:34:57.14\00:34:59.56
Commandments are actually
divided up into three sections.
00:34:59.59\00:35:02.07
There are about sixty some
words of the first one, two,
00:35:02.10\00:35:04.45
three commandments, then
the fourth commandment is about
00:35:04.48\00:35:07.02
sixty some words and the
last commandments five through
00:35:07.05\00:35:10.72
ten are sixty something words.
00:35:10.75\00:35:12.55
So actually even amount of
words of the fourth commandment
00:35:12.58\00:35:16.11
takes about the same amount
one third smack bang in the
00:35:16.14\00:35:19.28
middle and you got a
third here and a third there.
00:35:19.31\00:35:21.36
Yea, it's
interesting in Hebrew the Ten
00:35:21.39\00:35:23.84
Commandments in Hebrew
are much, much shorter than
00:35:23.87\00:35:25.46
they are in English.
00:35:25.49\00:35:26.55
That's right, you are correct.
00:35:26.58\00:35:28.32
We use a lot of
words to do what they do
00:35:28.35\00:35:29.92
in a very few words.
00:35:29.95\00:35:31.21
That's right but you
have the sense of the Sabbath
00:35:31.24\00:35:32.77
right in the middle and
right there in the heart of the
00:35:32.80\00:35:34.79
ten commands in the seventh
day Sabbath God says six days
00:35:34.82\00:35:37.97
you shall work
verse 9, okay why,?
00:35:38.00\00:35:40.99
"But the seventh day resting
is the Sabbath your Lord your
00:35:41.02\00:35:43.78
"God" and why verse 11, "for
in six days the Lord made the
00:35:43.81\00:35:47.90
heavens and the earth. "
00:35:47.93\00:35:48.90
So here God makes sure
that people understand it's part
00:35:48.91\00:35:52.25
of the creation story.
00:35:52.28\00:35:54.76
And, by the way, some
people say oh you Seventh Day
00:35:54.79\00:35:57.07
Adventists you
come up with this.
00:35:57.10\00:35:58.30
What's interesting a
scholar, a Lutheran scholar,
00:35:58.33\00:36:01.76
Dr. Walter Kaiser, I just
listened to him a few months
00:36:01.79\00:36:04.92
ago he has a book out
in which he says all of the
00:36:04.95\00:36:08.45
Ten Commandments
are found in Genesis.
00:36:08.48\00:36:10.77
He's a Lutheran scholar.
00:36:10.80\00:36:12.94
And you don't have to get
to Exodus, you can find the
00:36:12.97\00:36:14.96
Sabbath in Genesis.
00:36:14.99\00:36:16.55
That's it! Kaiser is
right that we recognize that.
00:36:16.58\00:36:19.19
So once you see that the
Sabbath is part of the Ten
00:36:19.22\00:36:22.48
Commandments and by the
way, when God establishes the
00:36:22.51\00:36:25.15
Sabbath in Genesis and
here in the Ten Commandments
00:36:25.18\00:36:27.28
there's no connection between
the Sabbath and sacrifices.
00:36:27.31\00:36:30.44
Not at all.
00:36:30.47\00:36:32.34
And in fact in Genesis
when God created the earth and
00:36:32.37\00:36:35.61
He created Adam and Eve
there were no sacrifices because
00:36:35.64\00:36:37.82
there was no sin.
00:36:37.85\00:36:39.55
So that's the first thing
that differentiates the Seventh
00:36:39.58\00:36:41.65
day Sabbath from
these feast days that were
00:36:41.68\00:36:44.25
set up, completely different,
00:36:44.28\00:36:46.70
Now let us go to
Leviticus 23 and you will see in
00:36:46.73\00:36:49.52
Leviticus the importance
of sacrifices attached.
00:36:49.55\00:36:53.55
Leviticus 23 and we want to
go to a verse there, verse 37.
00:36:53.58\00:36:59.18
Leviticus 23:37, now
when you read it at first.
00:36:59.21\00:37:03.42
Why don't you read first
while I catch my breath you read
00:37:03.45\00:37:06.76
verse 37, and you won't
immediately notice in the
00:37:06.79\00:37:10.15
English, but I want to point
something out to you and we'll
00:37:10.18\00:37:12.44
dig deeper, and we'll see
how the feasts are different
00:37:12.47\00:37:15.48
the sacred seasons.
00:37:15.51\00:37:18.56
All right, we're in
Leviticus 23:37, "These are
00:37:18.59\00:37:20.44
"the feasts of the Lord which
ye shall proclaim to be holy
00:37:20.47\00:37:24.33
"convocations to offer an
offering made by fire unto the
00:37:24.36\00:37:28.78
"Lord a burnt offering and a
meat offering a sacrifice and
00:37:28.81\00:37:32.79
"drink offerings,
everything upon His day. "
00:37:32.82\00:37:36.28
Right. Now right in
the middle of the verse
00:37:36.31\00:37:37.72
there's a little two letter
word, a preposition, the word
00:37:37.75\00:37:40.58
"to" and you read it there.
00:37:40.61\00:37:42.19
"these are the feasts to be
holy convocations to offer. "
00:37:42.22\00:37:45.95
The word 'to offer'
'for offering' the NIV puts
00:37:45.98\00:37:49.82
it that way, okay?
00:37:49.85\00:37:50.98
And the ESV English Standard
Version 'for' it points out
00:37:51.01\00:37:54.83
it's an idea of, um this
is the NIV and the ESV for
00:37:54.86\00:37:58.73
bringing offerings.
00:37:58.76\00:38:00.55
That's interesting because
when you go back to the Hebrew
00:38:00.58\00:38:02.27
there's the word "to" there
and in Hebrew that's the word
00:38:02.30\00:38:04.88
luh, it's a preposition
tied in with an infinitive.
00:38:04.91\00:38:08.18
Now I know it's a little
grammar here but and you know
00:38:08.21\00:38:10.62
what it means?
00:38:10.65\00:38:11.72
"To" and the infinitive
is the purpose and it's
00:38:11.75\00:38:14.10
interesting because the New
Jerusalem Bible translates it
00:38:14.13\00:38:16.42
this way, now I want
you to listen to this.
00:38:16.45\00:38:18.41
"These are Yahweh's solemn
festivals to which you will
00:38:18.44\00:38:22.34
summon the Israelites.
00:38:22.37\00:38:23.90
The sacred assemblies,"
notice, "for the purpose of
00:38:23.93\00:38:27.90
offering food burnt. "
00:38:27.93\00:38:30.23
Now once you realize that
these sacred seasons were for
00:38:30.26\00:38:34.45
the purpose of, take away
the purpose, have no sacrifices,
00:38:34.48\00:38:39.68
then what?
00:38:39.72\00:38:41.16
You have no reason to be there.
00:38:41.19\00:38:42.41
Yea, you have no
reason and you go to the Book
00:38:42.45\00:38:44.16
of Numbers chapter 28
and 29, you will notice that
00:38:44.20\00:38:45.84
virtually everything around
the sacred seasons was just
00:38:45.88\00:38:48.48
the offering of
these sacrifices.
00:38:48.51\00:38:51.37
And so there is an intimate
relationship if you have no
00:38:51.40\00:38:54.72
sacrifices you cannot have
feasts because sacred seasons,
00:38:54.76\00:38:58.04
the broader term
including Atonement and Trumpets
00:38:58.08\00:39:01.29
are for the purpose of.
00:39:01.32\00:39:03.30
Now that's a very
subtle point, I want to just
00:39:03.33\00:39:04.86
hold you there because it's
a good point that the meeting
00:39:04.89\00:39:08.86
is for the purpose of sacrifice.
00:39:08.90\00:39:10.97
It's not a feast in and of
itself it doesn't stand alone.
00:39:11.00\00:39:14.25
We come together to
do this, we come together
00:39:14.29\00:39:17.65
for this purpose.
00:39:17.69\00:39:19.00
So if you take away the purpose
then the meeting is illegitimate
00:39:19.04\00:39:22.35
- Correct.
00:39:22.39\00:39:23.40
So to say that feasts,
we use that term, stand
00:39:23.44\00:39:25.80
for themselves, no they
were called for a purpose.
00:39:25.84\00:39:28.17
- Correct.
00:39:28.21\00:39:29.18
And you have to take
that sort of whole ball of
00:39:29.19\00:39:30.30
wax, you cannot tear that apart.
00:39:30.34\00:39:31.79
- Absolutely right, they
got intimately intertwine,
00:39:31.82\00:39:34.30
for we I sometimes do you
remember a few years ago this
00:39:34.33\00:39:36.78
will date you the
old pressure cookers.
00:39:36.81\00:39:40.04
Before the days of microwaves
they would take a pot that
00:39:40.07\00:39:43.62
had a special lid that locked.
00:39:43.65\00:39:45.25
That's a little before my time.
00:39:45.28\00:39:46.36
Awwww, come on! You do
remember those pressure
00:39:46.39\00:39:50.00
cookers don't you?
00:39:50.03\00:39:51.13
Yea, I do.
00:39:51.16\00:39:52.23
It cooked the beans
over night and the beans
00:39:52.26\00:39:53.73
would get nice and soft but
here's what I'm saying if you
00:39:53.76\00:39:56.76
don't think I'm serious, man
do you have a pressure cooker
00:39:56.79\00:39:58.82
I want to show it to my kids.
00:39:58.85\00:40:00.00
They are in the microwave
era, they don't know what we had
00:40:00.03\00:40:02.26
to do you know, and then you
say to me I've got a pressure
00:40:02.29\00:40:07.05
cooker but I broke the lid.
00:40:07.08\00:40:08.71
Now here's my question,
what's a pressure cooker
00:40:08.74\00:40:10.44
without the lid?
00:40:10.48\00:40:11.66
It's not a pressure cooker.
00:40:11.69\00:40:12.66
It's not a pressure cooker,
00:40:12.67\00:40:13.64
it's a pot, - you're right.
00:40:13.66\00:40:14.72
It's lost its purpose.
00:40:14.75\00:40:15.94
Unless you have that lid
that locks it in it cannot work.
00:40:15.97\00:40:20.18
It's in the same way these
two are so intertwined, remove
00:40:20.21\00:40:24.39
the sacrifices
and there is no feast.
00:40:24.42\00:40:27.51
In fact when you
study them more carefully,
00:40:27.54\00:40:29.17
it becomes fascinating.
00:40:29.20\00:40:30.98
All of the feast days, all
of the sacred seasons and I'm
00:40:31.01\00:40:34.53
using I'm using the
word feast interchangeably
00:40:34.56\00:40:36.32
with sacred season,
but the more correct
00:40:36.36\00:40:37.67
term is sacred seasons.
00:40:37.70\00:40:38.97
Because the Day of Atonement
was not a feast day, it was
00:40:39.00\00:40:41.83
a joyous celebration it was
a flip your souls on that day.
00:40:41.86\00:40:44.55
Yes, very much so.
00:40:44.58\00:40:45.61
And so many of us use
the terms interchangeably.
00:40:45.64\00:40:47.38
But all of these sacred seasons,
you will notice everyone
00:40:47.41\00:40:50.40
of them other than the Day
of Atonement, only the Day of
00:40:50.43\00:40:52.86
Atonement, no work must be done.
00:40:52.89\00:40:55.47
The other sacred seasons
you can do no ordinary work, no
00:40:55.50\00:41:00.06
servile work, and no hard work.
00:41:00.09\00:41:02.95
Why? Because you
were busy sacrificing.
00:41:02.98\00:41:05.39
See? Whereas on the Day of
Atonement no work whatsoever.
00:41:05.42\00:41:09.09
So however, the point
is these are so integrally
00:41:09.12\00:41:13.73
intertwined and the
sacrifices when did they start?
00:41:13.76\00:41:17.49
They actually started
after Adam and Eve sinned.
00:41:17.52\00:41:19.77
We know that when God clothed
them with the skin and then
00:41:19.80\00:41:22.53
Abel and Cain have sacrifices
this all starts after sin.
00:41:22.56\00:41:25.97
And so you realize that
feast days sacrifices, they came
00:41:26.00\00:41:30.24
about because of sin.
00:41:30.27\00:41:31.78
And ultimately
who do they point to?
00:41:31.81\00:41:33.58
Ah, ha, so go to John 1:29
so here's what I want to make
00:41:33.61\00:41:39.45
sure we always
look at all of these
00:41:39.48\00:41:41.18
things lead sacrifices.
00:41:41.21\00:41:44.25
While we are turning
you may be thinking, boy,
00:41:44.28\00:41:47.43
these guys are getting
into some deep water here.
00:41:47.46\00:41:49.22
They're wading in kind of
deep this is theology I don't
00:41:49.25\00:41:52.05
know if I can follow them.
00:41:52.08\00:41:53.07
Let me encourage you.
jump in the water's fine.
00:41:53.10\00:41:57.07
Wade in and stick with us on
this because this is going to
00:41:57.10\00:42:00.46
arm and fortify you.
00:42:00.49\00:42:01.82
You may know someone who
you want to witness to, you may
00:42:01.85\00:42:05.92
have some questions of your
own or someone may have said
00:42:05.95\00:42:08.50
something to you that you
could not answer so stay with
00:42:08.53\00:42:11.93
us, stay on this because
this is good information and I
00:42:11.96\00:42:14.88
guarantee that you will
come away from this is sort of
00:42:14.91\00:42:18.21
feast 101 as it were.
00:42:18.24\00:42:20.28
We're trying to equip you
to show you some of the things
00:42:20.31\00:42:22.89
that the church is facing
and how you as a child of God
00:42:22.92\00:42:25.56
can deal with this and
have a reason for the hope
00:42:25.59\00:42:29.30
that is in you.
00:42:29.33\00:42:31.12
So if the water is
deep, put on your water wings,
00:42:31.15\00:42:33.29
jump in and swim, water's
fine we'll hold you up and the
00:42:33.32\00:42:36.67
doctor won't let you drown.
00:42:36.70\00:42:37.79
This is good
stuff so stay with us.
00:42:37.82\00:42:39.62
Yea, in fact I'll say
this is like the Dead Sea
00:42:39.65\00:42:42.19
in the sense that you won't
drown even if you can't swim.
00:42:42.22\00:42:44.97
Yea, there's so
much salt in the water.
00:42:45.00\00:42:46.97
Some years ago I had the
chance to go to the Dead Sea.
00:42:47.00\00:42:48.88
John 1:29 here we go, John
1:29, it's talking about Jesus
00:42:48.91\00:42:53.97
and John the baptizer or
Baptist as we call him, and John
00:42:54.00\00:42:58.52
1:29 says, "John saw Jesus
coming toward him and said,
00:42:58.55\00:43:02.27
'behold the Lamb of
God who takes away the
00:43:02.30\00:43:07.21
sins of the world. ' " - Yes!
00:43:07.24\00:43:08.45
The whole sacrificial
system which are intimately
00:43:08.48\00:43:12.34
intertwined with these
sacred seasons all ultimately
00:43:12.37\00:43:17.54
point to Jesus Christ.
00:43:17.57\00:43:19.88
There's no question about
this as we study the scripture
00:43:19.91\00:43:22.60
in an integrated whole
and look at it very carefully.
00:43:22.63\00:43:25.19
Now when I say study the
scripture, I was hoping we would
00:43:25.22\00:43:28.91
have time to encourage
people with a good methodology.
00:43:28.94\00:43:31.69
Maybe there will be time
to bring that in because one
00:43:31.72\00:43:33.41
of the biggest challenges
I found out with the issue of
00:43:33.44\00:43:35.94
sacred seasons, feast keepers
is the method of Bible study.
00:43:35.97\00:43:39.43
It's picking and choosing a
verse here and there and then
00:43:39.46\00:43:42.89
piecing it together like
a jigsaw puzzle instead of
00:43:42.92\00:43:45.53
following a biblical methodology
which then will be less
00:43:45.56\00:43:49.39
likely for you to go
astray on this topic.
00:43:49.42\00:43:51.68
Now, this is important
because we've been taught
00:43:51.71\00:43:53.63
as students of the Bible
particularly in the Adventist
00:43:53.66\00:43:56.81
Church that that is how one
establishes a doctrinal premise.
00:43:56.84\00:44:00.16
You never establish a doctrinal
premise on one text, you don't
00:44:00.20\00:44:03.48
pull out one text and say
that is the rule for our life.
00:44:03.52\00:44:05.83
We find it as it repeats itself
throughout the word of God.
00:44:05.86\00:44:08.80
So we do have some history,
I don't want to say picking
00:44:08.83\00:44:11.73
here and there, but
certainly finding a doctrinal
00:44:11.77\00:44:13.70
foundation in many places
in the Bible and bringing them
00:44:13.73\00:44:16.53
together to build our platform.
00:44:16.56\00:44:18.03
But you are saying
you have to do that in a
00:44:18.06\00:44:19.76
systematic kind of way.
00:44:19.79\00:44:20.76
Yes, yes! And right
here in John 1, right?
00:44:20.77\00:44:22.37
Go back two chapters
which means its to Luke 23,
00:44:22.40\00:44:27.89
let's see, Luke 24, oh
no, one chapter actually,
00:44:27.92\00:44:31.12
just one chapter back
this is providential that we're
00:44:31.15\00:44:33.72
here right now.
00:44:33.75\00:44:34.74
Go back to Luke 24:27,
will you read that, Luke 24:27?
00:44:34.77\00:44:41.00
And this by the way is a I
believe a divine methodology
00:44:41.03\00:44:44.70
for studying the scriptures.
00:44:44.73\00:44:46.33
Yes, yea. "And
beginning at Moses and all the
00:44:46.36\00:44:48.84
prophets, He expounded
unto them in all the scriptures
00:44:48.87\00:44:51.97
all the things
concerning Himself.
00:44:52.00\00:44:53.79
Who's this talking
about? - That's Jesus.
00:44:53.82\00:44:55.62
Jesus, that is right.
00:44:55.65\00:44:56.77
And so when we look at
that verse and I never really
00:44:56.80\00:44:58.91
realized that before
but believe it or not,
00:44:58.94\00:45:00.48
you can believe this here.
00:45:00.51\00:45:02.10
I lectured for
eight hours on that verse.
00:45:02.13\00:45:04.24
I did, I was training Bible
workers and showing how that
00:45:05.71\00:45:09.68
one verse, you can unpack it.
00:45:09.71\00:45:12.19
Okay so what we are trying
to do here in about one minute
00:45:12.22\00:45:14.66
instead of eight hours, if
you look at that verse this is
00:45:14.69\00:45:16.89
Jesus, where did He begin?
00:45:16.92\00:45:18.33
With Moses and all the prophets.
00:45:18.36\00:45:19.77
But first it's Jesus
so all our Bible study
00:45:19.80\00:45:22.99
must be Christ dependent.
00:45:23.02\00:45:24.52
This is very important,
this is Jesus doing it and of
00:45:24.55\00:45:26.90
course we can
have Him walk with us,
00:45:26.93\00:45:28.60
this is the story
of the road to Emmaus.
00:45:28.63\00:45:30.54
He doesn't walk with us
literally but He can walk
00:45:30.57\00:45:32.27
spiritually when we
spend time on our knees before
00:45:32.30\00:45:34.53
we open the Word.
00:45:34.56\00:45:35.96
Okay, this is so Christ
dependent and notice it is
00:45:35.99\00:45:38.96
chronological beginning
with Moses and the prophets.
00:45:38.99\00:45:41.22
And so when I study the whole
issue of the sacred seasons
00:45:41.25\00:45:44.04
feasts one of the key things
we've got to start in Genesis
00:45:44.07\00:45:46.88
and track it all the
way through to Revelations.
00:45:46.91\00:45:48.91
And we do find it here
and there but we follow in
00:45:48.94\00:45:51.29
chronological study, and
when you do that, instead
00:45:51.32\00:45:53.98
of jumping in like most of my
feast keeping friends jump right
00:45:54.01\00:45:56.90
in the book of Leviticus
and extrapolate from there.
00:45:56.93\00:45:59.63
And that's a very dangerous
methodology because I can
00:45:59.66\00:46:02.92
show things in Leviticus
that actually Leviticus is not
00:46:02.95\00:46:05.75
the place to start.
00:46:05.78\00:46:07.07
You cannot start diving off
a fifty foot board before you
00:46:07.10\00:46:11.86
even know how to swim.
00:46:11.89\00:46:13.71
You got to start, if somebody
pushes you off you got to
00:46:13.74\00:46:15.96
pray and you go down
and the Lord will provide.
00:46:15.99\00:46:18.05
But you don't learn to
swim that way and the problem is
00:46:18.08\00:46:21.89
that if you dive in at
Leviticus you get confused,
00:46:21.92\00:46:24.68
but if you follow this
method beginning with Moses so
00:46:24.71\00:46:27.36
chronological and all
the prophets He expounded,
00:46:27.39\00:46:30.72
that word expounded
is from the Greek word
00:46:30.75\00:46:32.47
dierimuo from hermeneutics.
00:46:32.50\00:46:34.59
He so did, it is Christ depend-
ent, chronological, careful.
00:46:34.62\00:46:38.63
He expounded in all the
scriptures it was comprehensive,
00:46:38.66\00:46:41.44
all the scriptures it is
canonical, the cannon of,
00:46:41.47\00:46:45.07
scripture the
things concerning it was
00:46:45.10\00:46:47.03
contextual, you see that?
00:46:47.06\00:46:48.53
Himself, and so we look
at all of them and that is
00:46:48.56\00:46:52.18
Christ centered and we
look at all these seven
00:46:52.21\00:46:54.38
beautiful principles
and when you study the Bible
00:46:54.41\00:46:57.30
in that way, according
to this method of Jesus,
00:46:57.33\00:46:59.86
the method of the Messiah,
for searching the scriptures
00:46:59.89\00:47:02.56
you begin to unpack it
and you don't end up as easily
00:47:02.59\00:47:06.20
with some of
these things that are
00:47:06.23\00:47:07.55
leading people astray.
00:47:07.58\00:47:08.98
- Yes, yes, yes,
that's wonderful.
00:47:09.01\00:47:10.32
Canonical, stay in the
Word, contextual let the Word
00:47:10.35\00:47:14.11
explain itself, let it
define how your going to ...
00:47:14.14\00:47:18.12
- Comprehensive.
00:47:18.15\00:47:19.79
Precisely and stick with Jesus.
00:47:19.82\00:47:21.53
And if you follow those
thing you are going to pretty
00:47:21.56\00:47:23.57
much land on your feet.
00:47:23.60\00:47:24.57
Christ centered,
Christ dependent, yea.
00:47:24.58\00:47:25.99
Careful study, that is
what we have to do, man.
00:47:26.02\00:47:28.38
Couple of things I
need to do before we go
00:47:28.41\00:47:29.80
into the second half.
00:47:29.83\00:47:31.68
There is a word I want
you to really wrestle with
00:47:31.71\00:47:32.68
is the word perpetual.
00:47:32.69\00:47:34.02
It comes up again, and
again, and again, but we do have
00:47:34.05\00:47:36.98
a free offer for the
evening and we haven't had
00:47:37.01\00:47:38.69
a chance to get to it.
00:47:38.72\00:47:39.69
See this is the good
stuff for me, I love this stuff.
00:47:39.70\00:47:41.61
I love digging into the
Word of God and that's why be
00:47:41.64\00:47:44.10
bought you because you
know you are an excited
00:47:44.13\00:47:45.79
student of the Word.
00:47:45.82\00:47:47.35
You can see it in your
face, you like this stuff.
00:47:47.38\00:47:50.07
I love it. That is good.
00:47:50.11\00:47:52.69
Praise the Lord, Our
free offer for the evening is
00:47:52.72\00:47:57.19
"Why the Old Covenant
Failed" it is by the venerable
00:47:57.23\00:48:01.66
Joe Cruz who
began Amazing Facts.
00:48:01.69\00:48:05.58
"Why the Old Covenant
Failed," good little booklet,
00:48:05.61\00:48:08.32
you can put it in your
pocket not very thick but
00:48:08.35\00:48:11.02
packed with information.
00:48:11.06\00:48:12.25
If you will call us
618-627-4651 or email us at
00:48:12.28\00:48:20.58
Now should you hear anything
this night that you want
00:48:28.70\00:48:31.95
to talk about, add light
to, have questions on, want to
00:48:31.98\00:48:36.38
comment on, call us, again
618-627-4651 or email us at
00:48:36.41\00:48:40.77
questions in the second half.
00:48:48.89\00:48:50.30
As we alluded to before,
this is a hot topic this is
00:48:50.34\00:48:52.61
something that there are
many people that are passionate
00:48:52.64\00:48:55.30
about and should you want
to sort of weigh in on this
00:48:55.34\00:48:57.83
discussion send your questions
in and as time allows we
00:48:57.86\00:49:00.31
ill get to them
in the second half.
00:49:00.35\00:49:01.92
Good doctor, I did say I
was going to toss a word at you,
00:49:01.96\00:49:05.51
I toss it to you now we
hear about perpetual and there
00:49:05.54\00:49:09.05
are those that use
this as justification
00:49:09.09\00:49:10.85
for keeping always.
00:49:10.89\00:49:12.13
Right, now before we
get to perpetual let me
00:49:12.17\00:49:14.01
just back up one more thing.
00:49:14.05\00:49:15.52
You asked the
difference between the
00:49:15.56\00:49:17.17
Sabbath and these feasts.
00:49:17.20\00:49:18.85
The one is the issue of
when it was established,
00:49:18.88\00:49:22.10
before sin it was established.
00:49:22.14\00:49:24.87
The other one was
sacrifices and these feast days,
00:49:24.90\00:49:28.32
sacred seasons are
intertwined with, the feast days
00:49:28.36\00:49:31.09
and sacrifices are so
closely intertwined there is no
00:49:31.12\00:49:33.82
way to separate
them. Impossible!
00:49:33.85\00:49:35.64
And what's interesting
that later on there were
00:49:35.68\00:49:38.24
sacrifices on every day.
00:49:38.28\00:49:39.84
There was a morning and
an evening sacrifice and then
00:49:39.88\00:49:41.66
on Sabbath it was
essentially doubled.
00:49:41.69\00:49:43.65
So there were
special sacrifices on the
00:49:43.69\00:49:45.61
seventh day Sabbath.
00:49:45.64\00:49:47.03
But all of these
things pointed to Christ.
00:49:47.06\00:49:49.14
This Sabbath did not,
the seventh day Sabbath
00:49:49.18\00:49:51.23
points back to creation.
00:49:51.26\00:49:53.13
Okay, whereas the
sacred season, the feast days,
00:49:53.17\00:49:56.29
they point to Jesus
because they were directly and
00:49:56.33\00:49:59.42
inexplicably
intertwined with the sacrifices.
00:49:59.45\00:50:04.42
And by the way when we
get to Daniel I want to just
00:50:04.46\00:50:06.60
mention that and
then we will go to the
00:50:06.63\00:50:07.86
eternal/perpetual idea.
00:50:07.89\00:50:09.73
Daniel 9:27 does
talk about Jesus coming,
00:50:09.77\00:50:13.70
it's a prediction and
evangelical Christians.
00:50:13.74\00:50:17.60
Bible believers believe
this is talking about Jesus
00:50:17.64\00:50:20.63
and you notice verse 27
says, "Then He shall confirm
00:50:20.66\00:50:23.28
"a covenant with many for
one week, but in the middle
00:50:23.31\00:50:25.64
"of the week you shall
bring an end to sacrifice and
00:50:25.67\00:50:27.97
"offering," bring an end to it.
00:50:28.00\00:50:29.54
So this is predicting that
the sacrifices and offerings
00:50:29.58\00:50:33.56
would end and when we get
to 1 Corinthians 5:7, we find
00:50:33.60\00:50:37.78
Paul actually identifying
that yes, it did come to an end.
00:50:37.81\00:50:41.96
1 Corinthians 5:7.
00:50:42.00\00:50:44.75
Now it starts with, "therefore
purge out the old leaven
00:50:44.79\00:50:47.98
"that you may be
a new lump since you
00:50:48.01\00:50:49.85
are truly unleavened. "
00:50:49.88\00:50:51.50
Now here it is, the
last part of verse seven,
00:50:51.53\00:50:53.65
what does it say. 5:7
00:50:53.68\00:50:56.33
"even Christ our
Passover is sacrificed for us.
00:50:56.36\00:51:00.98
Yes, that's right,
Christ our Passover
00:51:01.01\00:51:02.77
is sacrificed for us.
00:51:02.81\00:51:04.09
So these things all
pointed forward to the Christ.
00:51:04.13\00:51:05.83
And when you study the Bible
carefully you find out that
00:51:05.86\00:51:08.61
the word Passover as an example
is used for what you eat.
00:51:08.64\00:51:11.43
It says kill the Passover,
eat the Passover, and then it
00:51:11.47\00:51:14.22
says keep the Passover.
00:51:14.26\00:51:15.49
The feast, in other
words the terms are used
00:51:15.53\00:51:18.85
interchangeably so much so
that the eating, the feast,
00:51:18.88\00:51:22.63
sacrifice, and the
day there's no difference.
00:51:22.67\00:51:25.59
Okay, see that?
00:51:25.63\00:51:27.42
Whereas sacrifices that
happened on the Sabbath are
00:51:27.45\00:51:30.99
completely separate
and distinct from it.
00:51:31.02\00:51:34.00
And where as here when
you go to the Bible you kill,
00:51:34.03\00:51:36.99
you eat, and you keep the
Passover at the same time.
00:51:37.03\00:51:39.92
They are part and parcel of
it, so this is very clear and
00:51:39.95\00:51:43.22
so 1 Corinthians 5 or 7
Christ fulfilled these things.
00:51:43.25\00:51:46.48
Now, true the questions
comes up what do you do
00:51:46.52\00:51:48.79
with the term perpetual.
00:51:48.82\00:51:50.67
"Now before you do that you
occasioned a question of mine.
00:51:50.70\00:51:53.46
I was waiting for your next
question, you want to backtrack?
00:51:53.50\00:51:56.23
"Oh, indeed, does it do
violence to your thesis,
00:51:56.26\00:52:00.33
am I hearing you say that
if a person says we must keep
00:52:00.36\00:52:04.19
the feasts then he has to
be saying we must sacrifice or
00:52:04.22\00:52:08.01
we cannot say the other.
00:52:08.04\00:52:09.55
Are we going that far?
00:52:09.59\00:52:11.45
Essentially, absolutely.
00:52:11.48\00:52:13.28
Yes, because they are so
inexplicably intertwined you
00:52:13.31\00:52:16.71
cannot have a sacred
season, a feast day unless
00:52:16.75\00:52:20.46
you have a sacrifice.
00:52:20.50\00:52:22.24
But think about
the implications.
00:52:22.27\00:52:23.83
"Precisely, yea, yea.
00:52:23.86\00:52:25.57
What are the implications?
00:52:25.60\00:52:26.94
If you're going to go
back to sacrificing a lamb then
00:52:26.97\00:52:29.82
"Then you have
nullified Christ's work,
00:52:29.85\00:52:31.53
it's His work for you.
00:52:31.57\00:52:33.87
You say it is not
good enough for me.
00:52:33.90\00:52:35.06
Number one you have actually
denied that Jesus is the Messiah
00:52:35.09\00:52:39.59
who fulfilled these sacrifices
and days that pointed to Him.
00:52:39.62\00:52:43.40
Ultimately that's what, now
you might not intend to do it,
00:52:43.44\00:52:47.18
but ultimately
that is what you do.
00:52:47.22\00:52:49.34
"That is a statement that
is what the actions makes.
00:52:49.38\00:52:50.79
Exactly. You actions make.
00:52:50.82\00:52:52.26
It's an incredible thought,
in fact there's a book that
00:52:52.29\00:52:55.94
just came out just last
month in the month of June and I
00:52:55.98\00:52:58.82
could read you a statement,
now this, by the way went
00:52:58.85\00:53:01.66
through about forty
different scholars so it's
00:53:01.69\00:53:03.07
not just one persons idea.
00:53:03.11\00:53:04.61
This is how that ends,
that very idea, the question you
00:53:04.64\00:53:07.35
just raised. Here this
is how it ends, one of the
00:53:07.39\00:53:09.98
important statements,
"therefore for the Christian to
00:53:10.02\00:53:13.40
"participate in these Jewish
celebrations was tantamount
00:53:13.44\00:53:16.79
"to a denial of
Jesus' Messiah ship. "
00:53:16.82\00:53:19.77
Not just was, but is as well.
00:53:19.80\00:53:21.61
So it's very
important to realize that.
00:53:21.65\00:53:24.42
This, by the way, is a
fascinating book called
00:53:24.45\00:53:26.49
'Interpreting Scripture'.
00:53:26.52\00:53:27.68
It helps to answer many of
these Bible questions and yes,
00:53:27.71\00:53:31.00
so that is what it
ultimately ends at.
00:53:31.04\00:53:32.12
I want to go back
because again to just sort of
00:53:32.15\00:53:34.98
recap because we're at
the close of our first hour.
00:53:35.01\00:53:39.27
Feast day keeping in
and of itself is not an end,
00:53:39.30\00:53:43.53
it was a means to an end.
00:53:43.56\00:53:45.25
The end was sacrifice.
00:53:45.29\00:53:46.91
The feast just defined
the season or the time that we
00:53:46.94\00:53:50.20
gather for the sacrifice.
00:53:50.24\00:53:51.74
Defined it and gave
you opportunity to do that.
00:53:51.77\00:53:54.70
Precisely, so to make
feast day the end, keeping
00:53:54.73\00:53:57.59
the feast day in itself, is
not legitimate, is not enough
00:53:57.62\00:53:59.58
because the season
was called to sacrifice.
00:53:59.61\00:54:02.55
So you put one foot
down you gotta plant that
00:54:02.58\00:54:05.48
other foot which is sacrifice.
00:54:05.51\00:54:07.20
So a person says keep
the feasts for only in of
00:54:07.24\00:54:10.03
themselves only has
one foot on the ground
00:54:10.06\00:54:11.77
in his own argument.
00:54:11.81\00:54:13.26
The other foot is sacrifice,
they have to go together and
00:54:13.30\00:54:15.74
if you're not doing one,
you really can't do the other.
00:54:15.77\00:54:18.17
That's right. In
addition to that to keep three
00:54:18.21\00:54:20.47
of the feasts, all males have
to go Jerusalem to the temple.
00:54:20.51\00:54:24.11
And when the temple was
destroyed there was no more
00:54:24.14\00:54:26.76
a place to even go.
00:54:26.79\00:54:28.27
So not just was it the
time but also the place.
00:54:28.30\00:54:31.94
And there's no biblical
justification to have feasts any
00:54:31.98\00:54:35.65
other place other than
at the temple, for all males
00:54:35.68\00:54:38.97
it was required.
00:54:39.01\00:54:40.05
So you can't pick one,
it's like a Chinese menu,
00:54:40.09\00:54:42.64
you have to pick
the whole ball of wax.
00:54:42.67\00:54:43.87
It all comes together.
00:54:43.91\00:54:45.11
Let's go to
forever, go to "olan", very
00:54:45.14\00:54:47.22
interesting term by the way.
00:54:47.25\00:54:48.25
As in English, by the way,
this is something when you go
00:54:48.29\00:54:50.57
to the English language I
speak to you and I say to you,
00:54:50.61\00:54:52.86
"Last year I went to
London and dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:54:52.89\00:54:56.61
"If I say that to you what year
am I talking about, you say..
00:54:56.65\00:54:58.82
Last year, the
year before this one.
00:54:58.86\00:55:01.18
Which is? At this
point in time? 2009
00:55:01.22\00:55:03.47
2009, where we're
talking right now but if I
00:55:03.50\00:55:05.58
add the word "the" in front
of it, "The last year I went
00:55:05.61\00:55:08.51
to London and
dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:55:08.55\00:55:10.30
Could be any year in the past.
00:55:10.34\00:55:12.02
That's right, and
notice just one word.
00:55:12.06\00:55:13.60
When I add the definite
article "the" it becomes
00:55:13.64\00:55:16.10
indefinite because we
understand the language.
00:55:16.13\00:55:18.53
See, because we speak English,
that's our mother tongue.
00:55:18.56\00:55:20.81
When you get to the Hebrew
you have to understand what
00:55:20.84\00:55:23.06
these words mean in context,
00:55:23.09\00:55:24.86
and it's key to understanding.
00:55:24.89\00:55:26.59
If you want to dig
into it you have to say
00:55:26.62\00:55:27.87
what these words mean.
00:55:27.90\00:55:28.87
I've gone and done a complete
study of the whole "olan"
00:55:28.88\00:55:32.93
issue and this is the word
for forever and then there's
00:55:32.97\00:55:37.01
the word statute which
is the word "choq" masculine
00:55:37.04\00:55:41.04
or "choqa" feminine.
00:55:41.08\00:55:42.56
And then so my feast
keeping friends have saying are
00:55:42.60\00:55:45.29
saying that, well, there
are two kinds, the statute
00:55:45.33\00:55:47.82
forever and then there is
a statute that is temporary,
00:55:47.86\00:55:50.32
but actually
these words statute are
00:55:50.36\00:55:52.45
used totally interchangeably.
00:55:52.48\00:55:53.51
The masculine, the feminine,
there is no difference.
00:55:53.55\00:55:58.58
For the same feast you
will find in Leviticus 7:34-36
00:55:58.62\00:56:03.59
the masculine and feminine
language is used interchangeably
00:56:03.62\00:56:06.14
Deuteronomy
6:1-2, no difference.
00:56:06.17\00:56:08.50
So whether it is a masculine
or feminine gender for the
00:56:08.54\00:56:12.86
word statute doesn't matter.
00:56:12.89\00:56:14.81
But when the word
statute is connected with "olan"
00:56:14.84\00:56:18.73
that is a statute forever.
00:56:18.77\00:56:20.32
An eternal statute.
00:56:20.35\00:56:22.41
You have to say,
what does this mean?
00:56:22.44\00:56:24.68
Just as much as Samuel
was to be placed in the temple
00:56:24.72\00:56:28.16
forever the Bible says.
00:56:28.20\00:56:30.40
Okay, you always have to say
what is the, what does it mean?
00:56:30.43\00:56:33.85
And in the Bible the word
forever indicates it is the
00:56:33.89\00:56:37.27
nature and purpose of that
institution until it meets its
00:56:37.30\00:56:40.65
purpose, it is forever.
00:56:40.69\00:56:42.62
And so these are forever
statutes until they meet their
00:56:42.66\00:56:46.53
purpose which is what?
00:56:46.56\00:56:48.65
Jesus Christ, correct.
00:56:48.69\00:56:50.71
So they are forever
till He comes and that's why
00:56:50.75\00:56:54.25
Paul can correctly say,
thee Jewish scholar inspired by
00:56:54.29\00:56:58.44
the Lord, Christ our
Passover was sacrificed for us.
00:56:58.47\00:57:02.59
Yes, praise God, praise God.
00:57:02.63\00:57:04.23
Very important and perhaps
a fitting point upon which to
00:57:04.26\00:57:08.19
end this particular hour
this discussion of forever and
00:57:08.22\00:57:12.11
what does forever mean.
00:57:12.15\00:57:13.77
That's a very subtle point and
I hope you got that and sort of
00:57:13.80\00:57:17.47
wrote that down because it's
really a wonderful point and
00:57:17.51\00:57:20.85
it's a lynchpin of a discussion
of those who keep the feast.
00:57:20.88\00:57:24.19
If you say to your wife,
"I'll love you forever. "
00:57:24.23\00:57:25.53
She doesn't say,
"Liar, you're a Pastor. "
00:57:25.57\00:57:27.99
She really
understands that in the context,
00:57:28.02\00:57:30.41
it means until you die.
00:57:30.45\00:57:31.70
Not a problem. Until I die, yes.
00:57:31.74\00:57:34.69
You see, good stuff and I
hope you're enjoying this as
00:57:34.72\00:57:38.01
much as I because I'm really,
really getting blessed and
00:57:38.05\00:57:41.31
I trust that you are too.
00:57:41.34\00:57:42.31
Stay with us because we are
going to take a little break,
00:57:42.32\00:57:43.56
take a sip of
water, come on back we have
00:57:43.60\00:57:45.35
much more to talk about.
00:57:45.38\00:57:46.48
We'll be back in
just two minutes.
00:57:46.51\00:57:48.33