Hello, and welcome
to 3ABN today live.
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This is our two
hour sitting together.
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And allow me once
again to thank you
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for sharing this
part of your day with us.
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Now I need to set
some parameters here
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right off the bat,
because usually we say sit back,
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relax and enjoy the program
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but that is
patently inappropriate
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for tonight's program.
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One because we've got
David Asscherick here.
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And whenever you have
David Asscherick anyplace,
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sit back and relax
kinda out the window.
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So we're gonna say
seat backs up tray tables up
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in the what is it,
upward and lock position
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and buckle your
seat belts and hold on
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because we're
gonna be moving fast
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we've got a lot to talk about.
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And our subject matter
for this night is creation.
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We've been talking
about the attack of the devil
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in so many areas on
the gospel of Christ.
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And one of the areas
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that we see him
putting himself into,
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inserting himself into
is the idea of creation,
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the notion that we came
from the hand of a loving God.
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And so we want to again
buttress that, that thought,
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we want to talk about,
we want to encourage you,
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those who maybe under attack
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or who maybe having questions
that that you cannot answer.
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Tonight we're
gonna try to answer that,
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give you some more ammunitions,
some more armor as it were,
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maybe we even turn you
from a defensive person
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or offensive person
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who can stand up
for the cause of Christ.
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So that's what we're
trying to do tonight.
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My guest again
is David Asscherick,
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David, good to have you here.
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Always good to be here C.A.
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When I think of David,
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I think of that text
in the Bible that says,
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"The spirit
bloweth where it listeth,
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and thou hearest the sound
thereof, but canst not tell
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whence it coming
going." Sure, sure, sure.
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So David, of course, is
the favorite here at 3ABN.
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We've heard him preach
and when you see that blur
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running back and
forth across this that is,
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that is David Asscherick.
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I was wondering where
you were going with that.
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Okay, so the wind
blows where it wants,
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you don't know where it's going.
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You hear the sound,
you know it's a sermon,
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you know it's
Asscherick but sometimes
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you can't see him
because he moving so fast.
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But he's gonna slow down
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just enough
tonight to give us the word
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and he's brought a
good doctor with him,
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our very own doctor in
house, this is Dr. Sean Pitman.
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Sean, good to have you here.
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Thank you very
much. He's gonna help us
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walk through
this mine as it were,
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this land mine of creationism.
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He brings the
professional side of this,
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we're
theologians, we're preachers.
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We can oppose it from that side
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but Sean can give us a
whole other perspective
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which we will
take a look at tonight.
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And of course, in a second now
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we're gonna take
some questions from you.
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We've got a lot to
cover and awful lot to cover,
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we want to get
through that material
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and if in listening to
that you have questions,
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call them, write them, send them
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and we'll try to
answer them the second half.
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So we gotta good
night ahead of us,
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a lot to do, gonna talk
about a number of things
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but before we
unpackaged their stories
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we're gonna call
Jennifer LaMountain
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to minister to us,
a really nice person
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who we really love at 3ABN.
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A gifted singer but
who with her ability
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has a humility that makes
her a real joy to be around.
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Jennifer LaMountain
is going to be singing
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"Chasing of the
Wind, Why Do We Live."
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It's a medley
and you'll enjoy it.
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Every heart is
filled with longing
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To be free from all life's pain
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Yet the search
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through earthly pleasures
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Always ends in vain
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Only God who made the heavens
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Can satisfy our souls
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Apart from Him
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and all His meaning
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All things fail as they begin
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And hearts deceived
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Can only know
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A chasing of the wind
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All
achievements, all possessions
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These all with
time return to dust
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Only God
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can be our reason
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For deep and quiet trust
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He will guard us
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from the dangers
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That gladly make men fools
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Apart from Him
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and all His meaning
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All things fail as they begin
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And hearts deceived
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Can only know
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A chasing of the wind
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A chasing of the wind
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Why do we live without Jesus?
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Why do we waste another day?
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He is the life that sustains us
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The only hope for us today
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So tell me, why do we live
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Why do we live without Him?
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Jennifer LaMountain, well done.
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We were just talking about
her off camera a little bit,
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such a Christian
young lady, mother now
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and very, very happy and
does such a beautiful job.
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Gentlemen we've
got so much trouble,
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I think I want to
start with a good doctor
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because we, we sort of know you.
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Sure. I'm a known quantity.
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Sean, where you from?
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Originally from
Alabama in Mississippi area,
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my dad, my parents still live
in Alabama, the Montgomery area
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and my dad's a Trust
Services Director there.
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But my wife and I now
live in Northern California
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where I practice Pathology.
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Now when you say pathology,
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a lot of people may
not know what that entails.
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What does a pathologist do?
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Oh, it's very wide ranging
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and but mostly it's dealing
with the study of disease
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and a large part of my job,
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I basically tell
surgeons what they took out.
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Okay. Yeah. Put
it back, you know.
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How long have
you been in medicine?
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I graduate in 97 from
Loma Linda. From Loma Linda.
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And then I went to
army for four years,
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I had a military
medical scholarship
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and that was a lot of fun.
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Then after that I
went to pathology residency
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after that I did
kind of family practice,
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urgent care, E.R.
type of stuff at the army.
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And then after that I went back
to Loma Linda for pathology.
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Now are you married?
Yes, married after the army.
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And children? Just
have my first, Wesley.
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Good for you. Yeah,
he's a beautiful little boy.
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As a
pathologist good deal. Yeah.
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He could tell I
didn't know what this is.
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The little boy got all of
his good looks from Sean. I see.
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Because his wife
still has hers. I see.
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I lost all mine.
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What? Because
you've obviously done
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extensive study in creationism
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where did the
marriage sorta come for you
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as a pathologist and
this interest in creationism?
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Well, I kind of started out
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very young even
from a early childhood,
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I started
wondering about evolution.
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And if evolution
is true where were,
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what about Christianity? What
about Seventh-day Adventistism?
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And I asked lot of
questions even as a I child
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they weren't
satisfactorily answered for me.
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Even through medical school
I didn't really understand
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why evolution wasn't true
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where were the
limits if they were any?
00:11:03.65\00:11:06.14
I mean if you can have
lots of different dogs,
00:11:06.15\00:11:08.37
lots of different types
of cats and all these things.
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And they all change over time
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and new breeds
develop and all these things,
00:11:12.25\00:11:13.99
well, where is the limitation?
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And I couldn't figure that
out until after medical school
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where I decided to
devote enough time into it
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so I could figure
out one way or the other.
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You know it's funny every time
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I hear someone speak on creation
new things pop up in my mind.
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This idea where
is the limitation?
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Can a dog mutate so
much that is no longer a dog?
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Or does it have to stay a dog?
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If we follow that
evolutionary mindset.
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And of course, we're
gonna talk about that
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as we move into the program.
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But David, you have fairly
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recently
relocated to California.
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That's right. ARISE has moved.
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That's right. Talk a little
bit about what you're doing now.
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Well, we are continuing to run
the school there in California.
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ARISE has been
running now for 8 years.
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In fact, we're
right in the middle
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of course right
now, 52 students.
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And we've just
transitioned we're sort--
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you've been to
Yosemite? Oh, yes.
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Okay, so we're just,
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we're just right
outside of Yosemite.
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We live in heaven on earth.
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And you know, it's
absolutely beautiful
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right the top of a
mountain and we love it there,
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we loved Michigan
as well, but, you know,
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when the Lord opens
door, you know about that?
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You gotta walk through.
That's--you gotta walk through.
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Tell us what does ARISE do?
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ARISE is a very
simply a training school
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for primarily lay people
that we do get some clergy
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that comes and
pastors and evangelist.
00:12:22.46\00:12:24.03
But we basically teach people
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how to be
effective communicators
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of the gospel
both in a public sense
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and also in a
person to person sense.
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We just teach people how
to introduce others to Jesus,
00:12:32.37\00:12:35.37
to His word, to His truth
and to His entire message.
00:12:35.38\00:12:37.80
I see, a course of
study at ARISE is how long?
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Well, we have lots
of different courses
00:12:40.33\00:12:41.70
but the typical
course, the longest course,
00:12:41.71\00:12:44.00
the course were
sort of best known
00:12:44.01\00:12:45.07
for its four
months, always in the fall.
00:12:45.08\00:12:47.11
But we also have
two week courses,
00:12:47.12\00:12:49.25
we have a three week
course, we have many weekends
00:12:49.26\00:12:51.20
and week long courses
that we do in churches.
00:12:51.21\00:12:53.41
But the four
month course that we do
00:12:53.42\00:12:54.79
what we call
our flagship program
00:12:54.80\00:12:56.23
always in the
fall in California,
00:12:56.24\00:12:58.46
it's been in Michigan
but now in California.
00:12:58.47\00:13:00.59
And we take up to
about 50 students,
00:13:00.60\00:13:02.59
that's all we can take,
I wish we could take more
00:13:02.60\00:13:04.70
but we just we're
maxed out in terms of staff
00:13:04.71\00:13:07.62
with Matt and Randy and myself.
00:13:07.63\00:13:09.14
And then we also just the
facilities getting above 50
00:13:09.15\00:13:11.85
and then you kind of
lose that feel, you know.
00:13:11.86\00:13:13.17
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we
love it, absolutely love it.
00:13:13.18\00:13:16.04
I know, in Michigan you
Pastored some and did ARISE,
00:13:16.05\00:13:18.31
are you fulltime
ARISE or you're pastoring--
00:13:18.32\00:13:19.64
Fulltime ARISE now, yeah.
00:13:19.65\00:13:20.90
Sort of did the pastor
ARISE thing and you know,
00:13:20.91\00:13:23.93
you know how this
work something suffers.
00:13:23.94\00:13:25.63
You know, when
you try to do is ARISE
00:13:25.64\00:13:27.69
getting the attention
then the church is suffering,
00:13:27.70\00:13:29.27
is the church getting attention
then ARISE is suffering.
00:13:29.28\00:13:31.22
And so fortunately the
Central California Conference,
00:13:31.23\00:13:34.04
they really
believe in the ministry,
00:13:34.05\00:13:35.30
they've just
given me the opportunity
00:13:35.31\00:13:37.23
and the privilege of
working with my two associates,
00:13:37.24\00:13:40.07
three associates,
Nathan, Randy, Matt.
00:13:40.08\00:13:42.64
And Nathan
pastors the church there,
00:13:42.65\00:13:45.25
the Sonora
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:13:45.26\00:13:46.76
Yes. We assist him
we're right in the middle
00:13:46.77\00:13:48.06
of an
evangelistic meeting right now.
00:13:48.07\00:13:49.81
But my fulltime job is
the Speaker Director for ARISE
00:13:49.82\00:13:54.12
and absolutely
love it. Praise God.
00:13:54.13\00:13:57.39
I think I have the
best life in the world.
00:13:57.40\00:13:58.87
You probably think, you
have the best life in the world,
00:13:58.88\00:14:00.42
he probably
thinks he has the best.
00:14:00.43\00:14:01.51
But no it's a privilege, I mean,
00:14:01.52\00:14:03.23
just to be in the
work of God is, man,
00:14:03.24\00:14:05.97
praise His name.
Yeah, we do, we do,
00:14:05.98\00:14:07.77
we do each and everyday.
00:14:07.78\00:14:09.04
Now I want to, you know,
00:14:09.05\00:14:10.76
I want to kind of as
the Lord said of Lazarus,
00:14:10.77\00:14:13.57
"Loose you and let you go,"
00:14:13.58\00:14:15.50
and kind of, you
know, stay out of the way.
00:14:15.51\00:14:17.30
But I do want to
spend just a moment
00:14:17.31\00:14:19.77
or two trying to set some
context for our discussion
00:14:19.78\00:14:21.81
tonight 'cause
you've been here before.
00:14:21.82\00:14:23.87
And we've talked
about creationism
00:14:23.88\00:14:25.59
and it is a very
current area of attack
00:14:25.60\00:14:29.72
that the church is under.
00:14:29.73\00:14:30.78
So we want to just
set a little context,
00:14:30.79\00:14:32.42
you became aware that there
were Christian schools teaching
00:14:32.43\00:14:36.03
what is not
classic Christian doctrine
00:14:36.04\00:14:38.88
when it came to who we
are, where we came from,
00:14:38.89\00:14:42.02
how we got here
and where we're going?
00:14:42.03\00:14:43.63
Because they all sort
of build each on the other.
00:14:43.64\00:14:45.71
Interrelated. Yeah,
there are those who believe,
00:14:45.72\00:14:48.35
daddy was a gorilla,
mommy was a chimpanzee
00:14:48.36\00:14:50.82
and if they're bringing
that into the classroom.
00:14:50.83\00:14:52.99
And you wrote a
letter, pick it up from there
00:14:53.00\00:14:55.31
and talk about that if you will.
00:14:55.32\00:14:56.58
Well, you basically
nailed it there was a--
00:14:56.59\00:14:59.36
it came to my
attention that some of this
00:14:59.37\00:15:00.80
was being taught in some schools
00:15:00.81\00:15:02.00
that I have a vested interest in
00:15:02.01\00:15:03.41
and that I really
value Christian schools,
00:15:03.42\00:15:05.53
Adventist schools
and I wrote a letter
00:15:05.54\00:15:07.60
that was initially just
intended to be a private letter,
00:15:07.61\00:15:11.32
it wasn't sort of an
open public letter at all,
00:15:11.33\00:15:13.79
it was a private letter.
00:15:13.80\00:15:14.81
But as often
happens in the internet age,
00:15:14.82\00:15:18.98
that letter became
more commonly known
00:15:18.99\00:15:21.60
and then went
basically viral overnight. Yeah.
00:15:21.61\00:15:23.98
And I suppose
thousands, tens of thousands,
00:15:23.99\00:15:27.20
perhaps more
have read that letter.
00:15:27.21\00:15:29.65
And it's--I think
it's played the small role
00:15:29.66\00:15:33.02
in raising awareness
are there good reasons
00:15:33.03\00:15:36.33
to believe in a
literal six day creation
00:15:36.34\00:15:38.41
or is this just something
that we hold to tenaciously
00:15:38.42\00:15:41.71
as a tradition and of course,
00:15:41.72\00:15:43.77
I believe and you believe
that scripture teaches this
00:15:43.78\00:15:46.04
without question, of course,
Dr. Pitman believes that as well
00:15:46.05\00:15:48.24
and we believe that as a people,
00:15:48.25\00:15:49.47
we're Bible
believing Christians.
00:15:49.48\00:15:51.10
But at the same time we
want to be open to evidence,
00:15:51.11\00:15:53.01
we don't want to just cling
00:15:53.02\00:15:54.09
to what the church
teaches traditionally,
00:15:54.10\00:15:57.04
we want to say,
can this be supported
00:15:57.05\00:15:59.23
on an evidentiary basis and
not just a scriptural basis.
00:15:59.24\00:16:01.86
And so I think that that letter
has helped to raise awareness
00:16:01.87\00:16:06.33
and I mean, I get
hundreds, probably,
00:16:06.34\00:16:09.08
well, no it would
be thousands of email
00:16:09.09\00:16:10.78
since I've sent that letter.
00:16:10.79\00:16:13.10
And I'm thrilled
to see that, you know,
00:16:13.11\00:16:14.42
we've just had the
creation celebration,
00:16:14.43\00:16:16.10
creation Sabbath,
things are beginning to happen.
00:16:16.11\00:16:18.11
I wouldn't take,
I wouldn't even take
00:16:18.12\00:16:19.72
one half of one
percent of the credit for that,
00:16:19.73\00:16:22.12
I give all the
credit to get God.
00:16:22.13\00:16:23.96
But I think that
there are different people
00:16:23.97\00:16:26.29
like Dr. Pitman,
myself, 3ABN and others
00:16:26.30\00:16:28.81
that are sort of
agitating the issue and saying,
00:16:28.82\00:16:30.34
"Hey, you know
what do we believe?
00:16:30.35\00:16:32.86
And let's
articulate very clearly
00:16:32.87\00:16:34.66
what it is that we believe in
00:16:34.67\00:16:35.66
and why we believe
what we believe in.
00:16:35.67\00:16:37.01
And so it's excited,
it's absolutely excited.
00:16:37.02\00:16:39.73
It's good of one to redress
00:16:39.74\00:16:41.00
and revisit your belief
systems ever and now again
00:16:41.01\00:16:43.98
because things will
come along to shake that.
00:16:43.99\00:16:45.59
What we came to understand
00:16:45.60\00:16:48.12
when began to air
these kinds of proclaims
00:16:48.13\00:16:50.69
that there is large
reservoir war of people
00:16:50.70\00:16:52.71
who feel as you, as you do.
00:16:52.72\00:16:54.90
Who may have kept silent
00:16:54.91\00:16:56.71
but who now know
that there's a forum,
00:16:56.72\00:16:58.38
and that there are fellows
who believe like they do,
00:16:58.39\00:17:00.44
are beginning to speak up.
00:17:00.45\00:17:01.44
So the letter became seed.
00:17:01.45\00:17:03.72
Sort of a catalyst. Precisely.
00:17:03.73\00:17:05.38
For thousands of individuals
00:17:05.39\00:17:07.28
who held the
same kinds of believe
00:17:07.29\00:17:08.58
and so we decided
to bring these programs
00:17:08.59\00:17:10.83
back periodically to try to say,
00:17:10.84\00:17:12.83
"Hey, this is where we stand."
00:17:12.84\00:17:13.92
Absolutely.
"And we can, we can--
00:17:13.93\00:17:15.42
The apostle Paul
says, "Examine yourselves
00:17:15.43\00:17:17.48
whether you be in
the faith or not."
00:17:17.49\00:17:18.59
And of course, he's talking
about personal examination
00:17:18.60\00:17:20.51
but as a church, you know,
00:17:20.52\00:17:22.11
we always need to
step back and sort of say,
00:17:22.12\00:17:23.91
"Hey, is what we believe right?"
00:17:23.92\00:17:26.09
And we don't-- we
believe we have some truth.
00:17:26.10\00:17:29.12
Yes. But we
certainly don't believe
00:17:29.13\00:17:31.05
we have all the
truth, truth is progressive
00:17:31.06\00:17:32.86
and we're progressing with
God, we're marching with God
00:17:32.87\00:17:34.80
and so the
progressive nature of truth.
00:17:34.81\00:17:37.31
And maybe the
better way of saying it
00:17:37.32\00:17:38.44
is the progressive
understanding of truth,
00:17:38.45\00:17:40.28
our understanding calls
for constant re-visitation
00:17:40.29\00:17:43.88
and constant
evalution. And you know,
00:17:43.89\00:17:46.24
we've decided, this is
our, this is our standard,
00:17:46.25\00:17:49.24
this is where
we're coming back to.
00:17:49.25\00:17:51.33
But at the same time, we
don't want to affirm this
00:17:51.34\00:17:53.65
in the face of evidence
that maybe absolutely contrary
00:17:53.66\00:17:57.32
that's what we're
gonna talk about tonight is--
00:17:57.33\00:17:58.60
I can't' tell you how thrilled
I'm to hear you say that.
00:18:16.66\00:18:19.35
So many times we
sort of, you know,
00:18:19.36\00:18:21.47
like Dr. Pitman are saying
the right at the beginning,
00:18:21.48\00:18:22.74
you know, he was a
child, he was asking questions,
00:18:22.75\00:18:24.64
he wanted to know
what are the limits?
00:18:24.65\00:18:26.23
And the reality
is, is that many people
00:18:26.24\00:18:27.98
fear intellectual conflict,
they fear investigation.
00:18:27.99\00:18:32.73
But truth can stand in scrutiny.
00:18:32.74\00:18:34.26
I just heard quotation recently
that basically said that
00:18:34.27\00:18:36.57
"Sound faith has nothing
to fear from right reason."
00:18:36.58\00:18:39.89
I mean, if what
we believe is true
00:18:39.90\00:18:41.67
bring on the investigation,
bring on the analysis,
00:18:41.68\00:18:44.04
bring on the
evaluation and the scrutiny.
00:18:44.05\00:18:46.09
And you know, let's
get the cards on the table.
00:18:46.10\00:18:49.14
Precisely, and that's what
we want to try and do tonight
00:18:49.15\00:18:51.94
and I think our viewers are
gonna find it very persuasive.
00:18:51.95\00:18:55.68
Yeah, we've left-
'cause I said so age
00:18:55.69\00:18:57.34
when I was a
child my dad would say,
00:18:57.35\00:18:59.05
"You know, do this. Why dad? '
00:18:59.06\00:19:00.21
'Cause I said
so. cause I said so."
00:19:00.22\00:19:01.25
Yeah, well, it doesn't work
and it doesn't work with God.
00:19:01.26\00:19:03.21
Praise the Lord.
00:19:03.22\00:19:04.31
I'm so glad that
he is reasonable.
00:19:04.32\00:19:05.52
You know, he
says that, "Come now,
00:19:05.53\00:19:06.79
let us reason
together." It's not-
00:19:06.80\00:19:08.25
Well, he gave us
big brains for reason.
00:19:08.26\00:19:10.40
Yeah, yeah good man.
00:19:10.41\00:19:11.87
And not just for,
"because I said so," I mean,
00:19:11.88\00:19:13.35
that would take a really
small brain to understand that
00:19:13.36\00:19:15.72
Yeah. So he wants
us to appreciate Him
00:19:15.73\00:19:17.71
and for who He
is as the creator.
00:19:17.72\00:19:19.52
See that's the
pathologist talking, he sees-
00:19:19.53\00:19:20.88
Yeah.
00:19:20.89\00:19:22.18
Now before I sort of,
darn say turn you loose.
00:19:22.19\00:19:25.49
We have a free
offer for the night.
00:19:25.50\00:19:27.85
It is Creation
illustrated magazine.
00:19:27.86\00:19:31.12
This is really a great magazine.
00:19:31.13\00:19:33.33
First of all, it looks good,
00:19:33.34\00:19:34.86
it's got a lot of
pictures, I like pictures.
00:19:34.87\00:19:38.56
It's got recipes, it's
got a lot of additional stuff
00:19:38.57\00:19:40.58
but it has solid
creation material.
00:19:40.59\00:19:43.44
And this is a
sample that we want to send
00:19:43.45\00:19:47.20
to you and you may
even want to subscribe
00:19:47.21\00:19:49.91
to this in time but it's a
good magazine.Great magazine.
00:19:49.92\00:19:52.76
Full of color. If
you will contact us,
00:19:52.79\00:19:56.03
one you can email
to freeoffer@3abn.org,
00:19:56.04\00:20:01.09
that's
freeoffer@3abn.org, or call us
00:20:01.10\00:20:05.98
let see (618) 627-4651.
00:20:05.99\00:20:08.77
We have so many numbers floating
00:20:08.78\00:20:09.79
and sometimes you forget.
00:20:09.80\00:20:11.01
But (618) 627-4651
00:20:11.02\00:20:13.78
or freeoffer@3abn.org
00:20:13.79\00:20:16.95
we will get
Creation Magazine out to you.
00:20:16.96\00:20:19.04
And this is a good magazine,
this is a kind of thing
00:20:19.05\00:20:20.96
you can take and leave
in your doctrines office
00:20:20.97\00:20:22.50
or in a public place
put it on your coffee table
00:20:22.51\00:20:25.24
dare I say and people
will pick it up and read it
00:20:25.25\00:20:27.28
because it is an
excellent looking magazine
00:20:27.29\00:20:29.93
and once they open it up
it's got great information.
00:20:29.94\00:20:32.37
Now as we discuss
things through this night,
00:20:32.38\00:20:34.79
you may have questions
that you want to send in to us.
00:20:34.80\00:20:37.76
You may do so at live@3abn.org,
that's live@3abn.org.
00:20:37.77\00:20:43.18
And we'll try to
address those questions
00:20:43.19\00:20:45.03
in the second half or you again
00:20:45.04\00:20:46.64
you can call us (618) 627-4651
00:20:46.65\00:20:50.35
and we will try to
take those questions
00:20:50.36\00:20:51.86
in the second half
as we discuss Creation
00:20:51.87\00:20:55.78
from four
different aspects dare I say.
00:20:55.79\00:20:57.54
Yeah. And the
first one is I think its,
00:20:57.55\00:20:59.86
"why believe in
creation at all?"
00:20:59.87\00:21:02.25
Why even bother to believing it?
00:21:02.26\00:21:03.85
So let's,let's go.
Sortof dive in. Yeah.
00:21:03.86\00:21:05.95
Hey, I think my
wife just sends an email,
00:21:05.96\00:21:07.32
so can I have that one?
00:21:07.33\00:21:08.72
I'm sure she just sent an email.
00:21:08.73\00:21:09.72
Yeah, you can
have. Okay, thank you.
00:21:09.73\00:21:11.17
Yeah. Well, you nailed it.
00:21:11.18\00:21:13.01
What we want to do
00:21:13.02\00:21:14.53
is just basically ask, we
want to ask four questions
00:21:14.54\00:21:17.39
and then try and provide
answers to those questions.
00:21:17.40\00:21:19.70
And the first of
those four questions is,
00:21:19.71\00:21:22.34
why believe in
creation at all? In other words,
00:21:22.35\00:21:25.93
why should we
believe that versus
00:21:25.94\00:21:28.54
some other competing
thing that we might be believed?
00:21:28.55\00:21:31.18
And so maybe we'll just
sort of turn it over to you,
00:21:31.19\00:21:33.32
doctor, and why believe in this?
00:21:33.33\00:21:37.66
Well, for me it's
always been a conflict
00:21:37.67\00:21:41.65
of science and
religion. A lot of people think
00:21:41.66\00:21:43.25
science and religion
are separate enterprises,
00:21:43.26\00:21:45.56
different paths of
truths if you like.
00:21:45.57\00:21:48.01
And that never made sense to me,
00:21:48.02\00:21:50.37
I think the truth is
truth, it has the same origin
00:21:50.38\00:21:53.79
if God is in existence
then he is the god of both
00:21:53.80\00:21:57.71
inspiration the
bible, the written word
00:21:57.72\00:22:00.14
as well as nature and
also scientific inquiry.
00:22:00.15\00:22:04.02
The ability they
understand things
00:22:04.03\00:22:05.28
scientifically is also
derived from god I believe.
00:22:05.29\00:22:08.26
And if that is actually true,
00:22:08.27\00:22:10.19
there should be some sort
of way to demonstrate this,
00:22:10.20\00:22:13.49
this unity, this linking.
And I think there's been
00:22:13.50\00:22:17.52
quite a number
of ways in science
00:22:17.53\00:22:19.84
to demonstrate this
link, this unity between
00:22:19.85\00:22:23.95
inspiration and science.
00:22:23.96\00:22:25.64
So this idea that
all truth is God's truth.
00:22:25.65\00:22:28.01
Right, yeah, I don't
think there's kind of separate
00:22:28.02\00:22:30.24
paths to truth, to me
all truth has, is unified.
00:22:30.25\00:22:35.77
Points in the same
direction. Correct.
00:22:35.78\00:22:37.13
So some people
would say, well, you know,
00:22:37.14\00:22:39.01
you're a religionist
or you believe in God
00:22:39.02\00:22:41.77
and I'm scientist
and I believe in science
00:22:41.78\00:22:44.01
or whatever and you
can have your religion
00:22:44.02\00:22:45.98
and I'll have my science.
00:22:45.99\00:22:47.10
But what you're saying is
this that these aren't competing
00:22:47.11\00:22:50.35
or even different enterprises,
they're one in the same.
00:22:50.36\00:22:52.62
Well, I think that science
has religious implications,
00:22:52.63\00:22:55.26
regardless of the type
of science you're doing.
00:22:55.27\00:22:57.48
And religion if it's useful
00:22:57.49\00:22:59.88
or valuable has
scientific implications.
00:22:59.89\00:23:03.16
Okay, so sort of walk us
through that a little bit.
00:23:03.17\00:23:05.27
We're asking the question,
00:23:05.28\00:23:06.59
"why believe in
creation at all?"
00:23:06.60\00:23:09.06
Maybe give us an answer.
00:23:09.07\00:23:12.52
Well, for example, the universe
00:23:12.53\00:23:15.32
is very understandable place.
In fact, it's mathematical,
00:23:15.33\00:23:19.94
it's eminently logical
and that's very odd because
00:23:19.95\00:23:24.24
it doesn't have to be that way.
00:23:24.25\00:23:25.58
And it kind of
confused a lot of people
00:23:25.59\00:23:28.41
why is the
universe so mathematical,
00:23:28.42\00:23:30.73
mathematically precise,
mathematically balanced,
00:23:30.74\00:23:33.94
it's written, it seems to be
00:23:33.95\00:23:35.16
written in the
language of mathematics.
00:23:35.17\00:23:37.18
And it's
understandable to our minds
00:23:37.19\00:23:39.16
because of that,
because we understand
00:23:39.17\00:23:40.81
the language of
mathematics and it seems to be
00:23:40.82\00:23:42.47
kind of a
mystery why this is true.
00:23:42.48\00:23:45.04
And I'm not the only
one who's noticed this,
00:23:45.05\00:23:47.40
famous scientists
have noticed it as well.
00:23:47.41\00:23:49.39
People like
Albert Einstein. Right.
00:23:49.40\00:23:52.12
And others. I think you've got
00:23:52.13\00:23:53.79
a quotation there from Einstein,
00:23:53.80\00:23:54.97
one of the things
that is always impressed me
00:23:54.98\00:23:58.81
is not just that
the universe is amazing
00:23:58.82\00:24:01.07
but that there are minds
here to grasp the universe.
00:24:01.08\00:24:03.64
Yes. And that itself
has scientific implications
00:24:03.65\00:24:07.49
obviously 'cause
we're making observations
00:24:07.50\00:24:09.48
about the
universe but also certainly
00:24:09.49\00:24:11.18
religious implications.
00:24:11.19\00:24:12.22
Right, exactly. I
mean if there're minds
00:24:12.23\00:24:14.57
to grasp the universe
and its nature that seems
00:24:14.58\00:24:18.86
rather odd that
that might be true,
00:24:18.87\00:24:20.65
why is the universe balanced
so the minds can understand it
00:24:20.66\00:24:23.31
and why are minds
there to understand it.
00:24:23.32\00:24:24.60
Absolutely, so this quotation
00:24:24.61\00:24:26.03
from Einstein is
right to that point.
00:24:26.04\00:24:27.52
Yeah, in 1956 Einstein
writes in a letter to a friend,
00:24:27.53\00:24:31.86
it says,"You may find
it strange that I consider
00:24:31.87\00:24:34.18
the
comprehensibility of the world
00:24:34.19\00:24:36.07
to the degree that we may
speak of such comprehensibility
00:24:36.08\00:24:38.69
as a miracle or
an eternal mystery.
00:24:38.70\00:24:41.18
That is the miracle
which grows increasingly
00:24:41.19\00:24:43.52
persuasive with the increasing
development of knowledge."
00:24:43.53\00:24:47.39
Okay. And along the same
lines there is a physicist,
00:24:47.40\00:24:50.36
well, known
physicist Eugene Wigner.
00:24:50.37\00:24:53.00
Noble price winner,I
think. Noble price winner.
00:24:53.01\00:24:55.12
And writes similar, he says,
00:24:55.13\00:24:57.00
"The enormous
usefulness of mathematics
00:24:57.01\00:24:59.80
is something
bordering on the mysterious.
00:24:59.81\00:25:02.09
There is no
rational explanation for it.
00:25:02.10\00:25:04.90
The miracle of
the appropriateness
00:25:04.91\00:25:06.62
of the language of mathematics
00:25:06.63\00:25:07.89
for the formulation
of the laws of physics
00:25:07.90\00:25:10.21
is a wonderful
gift which we neither
00:25:10.22\00:25:12.57
understand nor deserve."
00:25:12.58\00:25:14.71
Yeah, you know, it's interesting
00:25:14.72\00:25:15.83
and everything is
another brick in a wall.
00:25:15.84\00:25:19.08
You have this
order, this symmetry,
00:25:19.09\00:25:22.01
all around us,
everything has order,
00:25:22.02\00:25:24.95
has symmetry is based
on, on mathematical formulas.
00:25:24.96\00:25:28.96
Then when you come
to the highest life
00:25:28.97\00:25:30.52
found on this planet is random,
00:25:30.53\00:25:32.16
it's just, it's
kind of incongruous,
00:25:32.17\00:25:33.49
everything else is order,
everything else is symmetry,
00:25:33.50\00:25:35.66
everything else is logical.
And then man is illogical,
00:25:35.67\00:25:39.25
his creation is illogical,
it just doesn't follow.
00:25:39.26\00:25:42.42
And I've heard
sort of a paraphrase
00:25:42.43\00:25:44.19
of what Einstein is saying here.
00:25:44.20\00:25:45.48
He had said in another
place very similar to this that
00:25:45.49\00:25:49.43
"The most incomprehensible thing
00:25:49.44\00:25:51.22
about the universe is precisely,
00:25:51.23\00:25:53.57
it's comprehensibility."
00:25:53.58\00:25:55.29
Because there's
nothing about the universe
00:25:55.30\00:25:56.86
inherently that it would
have to be comprehensible to us.
00:25:56.87\00:26:00.02
Yes. But apparently,
apparently mathematics
00:26:00.03\00:26:03.99
for example to quote Wigner,
00:26:04.00\00:26:05.72
he's to sort of
talk about Wigner.
00:26:05.73\00:26:08.29
Mathematics is giving us
obviously real information
00:26:08.30\00:26:10.88
about the world, it's telling
us something about the world.
00:26:10.89\00:26:13.33
So why should that be the case,
00:26:13.34\00:26:15.28
that sort of screams purpose.
00:26:15.29\00:26:17.41
Why should it be logical at all?
00:26:17.42\00:26:19.20
Why should we be
able to understand it?
00:26:19.21\00:26:20.95
The universe could
be, have been program
00:26:20.96\00:26:24.25
in so many
un-understandable ways
00:26:24.26\00:26:26.98
that we could not comprehend.
The fact that it's been written
00:26:26.99\00:26:30.51
in a way that we
canactually appreciate
00:26:30.52\00:26:32.20
it is a great mystery.
00:26:32.21\00:26:33.67
And the founders of
the, let's not forget
00:26:33.68\00:26:35.77
that the founders of
the- what we might call
00:26:35.78\00:26:37.37
the modern scientific
method, people like Galileo
00:26:37.38\00:26:39.71
or Newton and others,
many of these people believe
00:26:39.72\00:26:42.75
that the scientific enterprise
was possible precisely
00:26:42.76\00:26:45.66
because they were
sort of discovering
00:26:45.67\00:26:48.10
the mind of God so of speak.
00:26:48.11\00:26:49.98
They expected there to be order,
00:26:49.99\00:26:51.20
they expected there to be logic,
00:26:51.21\00:26:53.11
they expected there to
be some rational substance
00:26:53.12\00:26:55.49
or fabric to the universe
00:26:55.50\00:26:56.70
and they were discovering
things, they weren't inventing
00:26:56.71\00:26:59.34
Newton didn't
invent the laws of physics,
00:26:59.35\00:27:01.01
Newtonian physics,
he discovered them.
00:27:01.02\00:27:02.73
Right, and he
thought by discovering
00:27:02.74\00:27:04.92
and by searching
out, picking it up pebbles
00:27:04.93\00:27:06.68
along the beach as he said.
00:27:06.69\00:27:07.69
He was learning small little
bits about the mind of God.
00:27:07.70\00:27:10.64
Yeah, yeah, you know
that again an exciting thing,
00:27:10.65\00:27:13.74
the fact that this
logical sequential way
00:27:13.75\00:27:17.49
God is put things
together allows us
00:27:17.50\00:27:18.91
to understand our world.
If the sun came up in the East
00:27:18.92\00:27:21.86
one day and the West one
day and the North one day
00:27:21.87\00:27:23.45
and-you could never
get a handle on your life.
00:27:23.46\00:27:25.80
If the world was as random
as some would like it to be
00:27:25.81\00:27:28.56
we could never
understand God, ourselves,
00:27:28.57\00:27:30.73
our place in the universe,
all the universe in itself.
00:27:30.74\00:27:33.16
It's the fact that
it is ordered and random
00:27:33.17\00:27:35.54
and sequential that
allows to understand
00:27:35.55\00:27:38.46
where we are
and what we're doing
00:27:38.47\00:27:39.51
that's a
greatargument. I love it. Yeah.
00:27:39.52\00:27:41.42
And beyond that the
universe is finally tuned
00:27:41.43\00:27:45.10
not just to be understandable
but to actually support life.
00:27:45.11\00:27:48.18
It seems like
it was made for us.
00:27:48.19\00:27:51.12
Yeah. I love this.
These were sometimes called
00:27:51.13\00:27:53.50
the anthropic principle
or the anthropic constraints
00:27:53.51\00:27:57.82
coming from anthropos,
anthropology the study of man.
00:27:57.83\00:28:01.20
And basically what you
have is that the universe
00:28:01.21\00:28:04.73
looks as though it
had man in mind.Yes, yes.
00:28:04.74\00:28:07.71
And the
illustration that I like to use,
00:28:07.72\00:28:08.81
we're gonna have
Dr. Pitman to walk us
00:28:08.82\00:28:10.06
through few of
these but the illustration
00:28:10.07\00:28:11.33
I like to use is
imagine or you just-
00:28:11.34\00:28:13.04
you just had baby
boy which is exciting,
00:28:13.05\00:28:15.47
congratulationby
the way. Thank you.
00:28:15.48\00:28:17.32
And let's say that I
didn't know that you in secret,
00:28:17.33\00:28:19.34
we're expecting so I go
over to your house and I say,
00:28:19.35\00:28:22.01
"Hey, Sean, can I
use the restroom?"
00:28:22.02\00:28:23.11
You say, "Yes, down
the hallway." Of course,
00:28:23.12\00:28:24.33
I know where is this, I've
been to your house many times.
00:28:24.34\00:28:25.96
But if I go down the
hallway and I just maybe glanced
00:28:25.97\00:28:28.89
through a door and I see
a door slightly adjourned
00:28:28.90\00:28:31.56
as I look in there
and I see a blue wall
00:28:31.57\00:28:33.95
and I sort of push the
door open and I see a blue crib,
00:28:33.96\00:28:36.89
and a blue changing
table and a blue waste basket
00:28:36.90\00:28:39.93
and a blue, you know,
what am I gonna assume?
00:28:39.94\00:28:41.82
We have bad decorated home.
00:28:41.83\00:28:47.18
I didn't want to say that
on live television you know.
00:28:47.19\00:28:48.87
You know, but the
truth of the matter is,
00:28:48.88\00:28:50.76
is that I would
see the environment
00:28:50.77\00:28:52.07
and I would say,
oh, they're expecting
00:28:52.08\00:28:53.54
and they're expecting a boy.
00:28:53.55\00:28:55.13
And the universe is
very much like that. Yeah.
00:28:55.14\00:28:57.10
Physicists, cosmologists
and others sort of look
00:28:57.11\00:28:59.72
at the universe and they say,
00:28:59.73\00:29:01.36
"Well, this looks
like this was made for us."
00:29:01.37\00:29:04.04
Right, on every level it
seems like from the universe
00:29:04.05\00:29:07.19
as a whole as far as fundamental
00:29:07.20\00:29:08.77
concepts are
concerned, to galaxies to even
00:29:08.78\00:29:11.26
the structure of
the solar system.
00:29:11.27\00:29:13.74
So let's sort of walk through
those in there and just give us
00:29:13.75\00:29:17.19
one of these
anthropic coincidences
00:29:17.20\00:29:19.84
at say the universal
level, at the big picture level.
00:29:19.85\00:29:23.30
All right, matter
in the universe, stars,
00:29:23.31\00:29:26.40
and solar systems and
everything are flying away
00:29:26.41\00:29:28.32
from each other at a
certain speed and everything
00:29:28.33\00:29:31.20
is flying away from each other.
00:29:31.21\00:29:32.97
And the degree or
that speed is very precise,
00:29:32.98\00:29:38.14
it's precise to one times
ten to the one twenty first.
00:29:38.15\00:29:42.97
Okay. Now this
is a massive number,
00:29:42.98\00:29:45.06
I mean 10 to the power of
121 is enormous for example,
00:29:45.07\00:29:50.27
to understand that
how big this number
00:29:50.28\00:29:52.23
is there are only
about 10 to the 80th atoms
00:29:52.24\00:29:55.26
in the whole universe, at
least the visible universe.
00:29:55.27\00:29:57.65
And soit's massively- So
that's it just for our viewers
00:29:57.66\00:29:59.52
that's ten with eighty
80 zeros behind it. Right.
00:29:59.53\00:30:02.03
And you're saying
there's- The precision.
00:30:02.04\00:30:04.58
The precision of the
expansion of the universe,
00:30:04.59\00:30:07.13
the rate of expansion.
00:30:07.14\00:30:08.25
It has to be precise to one
times 10 to the power of 121.
00:30:08.26\00:30:13.55
One twenty one, okay
so that's a 121 zeros.
00:30:13.56\00:30:15.61
So if it's off by
one zero out of 121,
00:30:15.62\00:30:18.54
the universe would
either expand too fast
00:30:18.55\00:30:21.84
to form planets
enable us to stay alive
00:30:21.85\00:30:24.81
or would crunch
back down on itself
00:30:24.82\00:30:26.95
and could destroy everything.
00:30:26.96\00:30:28.67
So the levelof
precision there, I mean,
00:30:28.68\00:30:31.38
try to give us, is there
some kind of an illustration-
00:30:31.39\00:30:32.99
can you make that?
00:30:33.00\00:30:34.26
The level of precision
for example would be like-
00:30:34.27\00:30:36.60
I mean who can proceed
with that number give us a-
00:30:36.61\00:30:38.44
All right, yeah, let say,
00:30:38.45\00:30:39.65
I wrote my name on a
piece of sand, a grain of sand.
00:30:39.66\00:30:42.15
Which I've seen him do before.
00:30:42.16\00:30:44.03
Really small and then I take
it out to the Sahara dessert
00:30:44.04\00:30:46.56
and I throw it
somewhere in there
00:30:46.57\00:30:47.66
and mix it up randomly. Okay
00:30:47.67\00:30:49.06
And I blindfold you and I say,
00:30:49.07\00:30:50.38
"Go find the grain of sand."
00:30:50.39\00:30:52.37
Let's say you just really
lucky and you happen blindfold
00:30:52.38\00:30:56.04
to pick up the
right grain of sand.
00:30:56.05\00:30:58.17
Now do that five times in a row
00:30:58.18\00:31:00.66
that's the degree of precision.
00:31:00.67\00:31:02.63
That's this 10 to 121
zeros behind it. Right.
00:31:02.64\00:31:06.36
That's the concept the mind
really can't wrap self around,
00:31:06.37\00:31:09.79
it's just, you
just accept in faith.
00:31:09.80\00:31:12.54
Dare I say. Hey, listen.
00:31:12.55\00:31:16.01
Because you can't, you
can't conceptualize that,
00:31:16.02\00:31:18.23
you know,you just.
So basically, you know,
00:31:18.24\00:31:20.50
if you want to go
to Vegas, you know.
00:31:20.51\00:31:22.24
What kind of hours do
you need before you say,
00:31:22.25\00:31:23.90
maybe something is behind it?
00:31:23.91\00:31:25.04
Yeah. Type of deal. Okay.
00:31:25.05\00:31:26.19
Not that we're
advocating going to Vegas.
00:31:26.20\00:31:28.10
So that sort of
a universal level,
00:31:28.11\00:31:32.19
things were expanding
in just the right speed
00:31:32.20\00:31:34.38
and if it was
only slightly different
00:31:34.39\00:31:35.83
the whole thing
goes pear shaped. Okay.
00:31:35.84\00:31:37.37
So now let sort of bring it
down to the level of galaxy.
00:31:37.38\00:31:41.28
Yeah, the galaxy's
interesting because
00:31:41.29\00:31:43.49
the location of our
solar system and the earth
00:31:43.50\00:31:46.33
within the galaxy
is in just right spot
00:31:46.34\00:31:48.33
called the habitable zone
within the Milky Way galaxy.
00:31:48.34\00:31:51.93
It's about two thirds
of the way out which is,
00:31:51.94\00:31:54.14
if it we're any
closer to the center
00:31:54.15\00:31:56.10
then the radiation from
the center of the galaxy
00:31:56.11\00:31:58.85
would be too strong
to sustain complex life.
00:31:58.86\00:32:01.38
And if it was little bit
further out from the center
00:32:01.39\00:32:04.15
of the galaxy then
there wouldn't be enough
00:32:04.16\00:32:06.19
heavy elements to
support the complexity of life.
00:32:06.20\00:32:09.54
So we're in the right
neighborhood so to speak.
00:32:09.55\00:32:11.67
We're in the right
neighborhood and beyond
00:32:11.68\00:32:12.91
that we're also in the right
00:32:12.92\00:32:14.13
spot within that
neighborhood.Wow.
00:32:14.14\00:32:15.60
For example, the
galaxies have arms.
00:32:15.61\00:32:18.40
Okay. Sort of look
like a- Like a whirlpool.
00:32:18.41\00:32:20.55
Whirlpool spinning.
00:32:20.56\00:32:21.84
All right and
they have these arms
00:32:21.85\00:32:23.04
that we are not within an arm
00:32:23.05\00:32:25.33
we're kind of in
between two arms.
00:32:25.34\00:32:27.41
So we can see out of the
galaxy to study the universe,
00:32:27.42\00:32:29.98
if we were in an
arm we couldn't see out.
00:32:29.99\00:32:32.18
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:32.19\00:32:33.18
So it's very fortunate
that we just happen to be-
00:32:33.19\00:32:36.05
So we're not only in the
right zip code, neighbor,
00:32:36.06\00:32:38.72
we're in the right
house on the right floor.
00:32:38.73\00:32:39.75
Right. Oh, there we go.
00:32:39.76\00:32:41.13
Yeah. We're in
the right chair. Yeah.
00:32:41.14\00:32:42.43
Are you in the
right chair, C.A.?
00:32:42.44\00:32:45.30
So--okay, so that
sort of the galaxy level
00:32:45.31\00:32:47.73
and these are the kinds
of things that scientists,
00:32:47.74\00:32:49.99
they're not picking
up the Bible and saying,
00:32:50.00\00:32:51.18
you know, like we said
at the beginning there,
00:32:51.19\00:32:52.54
"because I said so."
00:32:52.55\00:32:53.71
These are the kinds of things
that scientists are looking
00:32:53.72\00:32:55.70
at and they're
saying, "Wow, this kind of,
00:32:55.71\00:32:57.49
this sort of, that sort
of smacks of intentionality.
00:32:57.50\00:33:02.02
Right. Well, maybe if its, okay,
00:33:02.03\00:33:04.09
if he had like one or
two or three of these things
00:33:04.10\00:33:06.10
but there's dozens of them.
00:33:06.11\00:33:07.55
Okay, so let's come
even closer to home,
00:33:07.56\00:33:08.99
let's get in our solar system.
00:33:09.00\00:33:10.28
Now we're here with
what seven or eight planets?
00:33:10.29\00:33:12.97
Yeah, the solar
system is interesting like,
00:33:12.98\00:33:14.59
the Earth's
distance from the Sun
00:33:14.60\00:33:16.23
is just the right distance
because if it was any closer,
00:33:16.24\00:33:19.64
just a fraction closer
then it would be too hot
00:33:19.65\00:33:23.67
and everything
would kind of boil off,
00:33:23.68\00:33:26.25
if it was too farther
away it would be too cold
00:33:26.26\00:33:29.04
and everything would be frozen
00:33:29.05\00:33:30.38
and unable to support
complex life at least.
00:33:30.39\00:33:33.15
And also the orbit of
the earth is nearly circular,
00:33:33.16\00:33:37.12
it's not exactly
circular somewhat oblique
00:33:37.13\00:33:38.80
but it's nearly
circular which is unlike
00:33:38.81\00:33:41.11
most of the other planets
which have more elliptical.
00:33:41.12\00:33:44.20
And so if the earth
was more elliptical like
00:33:44.21\00:33:46.48
that you would get extremes
in temperature variation.
00:33:46.49\00:33:48.53
Too far away from the
Sun, too close to the Sun.
00:33:48.54\00:33:50.49
Right. And the Moon.
00:33:50.50\00:33:52.02
The Moon is also the right size
and distance from the Earth,
00:33:52.03\00:33:54.53
if the Moon was
more massive for example
00:33:54.54\00:33:58.36
you would get
massive tidal action
00:33:58.37\00:33:59.84
that would cover large
portions of continents.
00:33:59.85\00:34:02.43
Because the tides are caused by-
00:34:02.44\00:34:04.52
Moon. The Moon. Right.
00:34:04.53\00:34:06.07
And if the Moon
was had bigger mass
00:34:06.08\00:34:07.57
that was closer
then we would have these-
00:34:07.58\00:34:09.25
Massive tidal actions. Okay.
00:34:09.26\00:34:11.15
And if, the Moon
was too far away,
00:34:11.16\00:34:12.86
you wouldn't have
enough tidal action
00:34:12.87\00:34:14.50
to stir up the
oceans to keep it well
00:34:14.51\00:34:16.43
oscillatory it become stale,
00:34:16.44\00:34:18.47
stagnant and
everything would die.
00:34:18.48\00:34:20.46
Now you had told me one time,
00:34:20.47\00:34:21.51
this is quite fascinating C.A.,
00:34:21.52\00:34:22.99
he had told me one time
about the color of the Sun.
00:34:23.00\00:34:25.67
Yeah, the color of the
Sun is also interesting
00:34:25.68\00:34:27.33
because if it
was redder or bluer
00:34:27.34\00:34:29.60
photosynthesis
wouldn't work as well.
00:34:29.61\00:34:31.96
Or maybenot at all
perhaps. Or maybe not at all.
00:34:31.97\00:34:34.47
So this does give,
give emphasis to your point
00:34:34.48\00:34:37.21
that it seems as though,
00:34:37.22\00:34:38.87
the universe was
made for man to inhabit.
00:34:38.88\00:34:42.90
That these things were ordered
00:34:42.91\00:34:44.24
just as they needed to
be so that we could live
00:34:44.25\00:34:46.65
Yes, and it even goes down
00:34:46.66\00:34:48.64
further like to
the atomic level.
00:34:48.65\00:34:50.75
So now we're going really small.
00:34:50.76\00:34:52.19
Right. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:52.20\00:34:53.99
Because the atom
is a quite of sizeable
00:34:54.00\00:34:56.99
bundle of nice coincidences
if you want to coincidences.
00:34:57.00\00:35:01.01
Okay, Okay.
00:35:01.02\00:35:02.28
For example the size of
electron versus the proton
00:35:02.29\00:35:08.69
for example are very
different almost 2,000 times
00:35:08.70\00:35:11.62
more massive the
protons versus electrons.
00:35:11.63\00:35:13.62
Electron just the little one.
00:35:13.63\00:35:14.63
Those tiny little things
flying around the nucleus right.
00:35:14.64\00:35:18.61
And it's 2,000 times smaller.
00:35:18.62\00:35:20.69
Almost like 18, 1,836
or something like that.
00:35:20.70\00:35:23.86
Smaller than the
proton. Than the proton. Okay.
00:35:23.87\00:35:25.74
But the charge is exactly
the same in counterbalance
00:35:25.75\00:35:29.66
from the opposite
charges but the same degree-
00:35:29.67\00:35:32.26
Electron positive, the electron
negative, proton positive.
00:35:32.27\00:35:33.79
Yeah, the same degree of charge
and that's very interesting
00:35:33.80\00:35:36.97
because there is
numerous parameters
00:35:36.98\00:35:38.43
between the proton
and electron none of them
00:35:38.44\00:35:40.33
are the same
except for the charges
00:35:40.34\00:35:41.66
exactly the same if
there was any different
00:35:41.67\00:35:44.13
to any significant,
well, any small degree
00:35:44.14\00:35:46.44
the complex
molecules would not develop
00:35:46.45\00:35:50.03
not be able- because it
wouldn't thave a stability.
00:35:50.04\00:35:51.70
Right. Yeah. Fascinating.
00:35:51.71\00:35:53.34
And also the same
thing with the mass.
00:35:53.35\00:35:55.26
The ratio of mass
between proton and electron
00:35:55.27\00:35:57.28
is that were slightly
different also complex
00:35:57.29\00:35:59.74
molecules could not develop.
00:35:59.75\00:36:01.14
So it's not just an issue
of the charge, it's the mass-
00:36:01.15\00:36:03.10
Right, all these parameters
have to be like they are.
00:36:03.11\00:36:05.39
Exactly like they are. Right.
00:36:05.40\00:36:07.02
And so these are things
that physicists look at,
00:36:07.03\00:36:10.01
physicist like Paul Davies,
00:36:10.02\00:36:11.04
I think we've got a
quotation here from-
00:36:11.05\00:36:12.60
Yeah, it's very
interesting. From Paul Davies.
00:36:12.61\00:36:14.47
Paul Davies in
specific, he kind of points out
00:36:14.48\00:36:18.46
that physicist even
more but then biologist
00:36:18.47\00:36:21.56
believe that at least some
sort of higher power behind it
00:36:21.57\00:36:23.67
all if you call
it God or whatever
00:36:23.68\00:36:26.10
it is some sort of intelligence.
00:36:26.11\00:36:27.66
He's an
Australian astrophysicist
00:36:27.67\00:36:30.17
pretty well known, he writes,
00:36:30.18\00:36:32.70
"Such stunning accuracy
in the precisely balanced
00:36:32.71\00:36:37.31
universe needed to
support complex life
00:36:37.32\00:36:40.36
is surely one of the
great mysteries of cosmology.
00:36:40.37\00:36:42.37
The belief that there is
"something behind it all"
00:36:42.38\00:36:45.73
is one that I personally
share with, I suspect,
00:36:45.74\00:36:48.53
a majority of physicists
that there must be a God."
00:36:48.54\00:36:52.49
He actually calls him
God. "Who is responsible
00:36:52.50\00:36:55.00
for these laws and
responsible for the universe."
00:36:55.01\00:36:57.01
Fascinating. Yeah. It says to me
00:36:57.02\00:36:58.93
if we delve into
these subjects with an open
00:36:58.94\00:37:00.91
un-jaundiced eye,
the evidence will lead
00:37:00.92\00:37:04.59
to at the very least
a designer. There you go
00:37:04.60\00:37:08.33
Some sort of order something
intelligent and he's named it.
00:37:08.69\00:37:10.98
Yeah, lot of people
complain about that,
00:37:10.99\00:37:12.32
you know, you're talking about
00:37:12.33\00:37:14.53
theistic sort of being, but
it's not necessarily Christian,
00:37:14.54\00:37:18.34
you're kind of undermining
Christianity but I don't think
00:37:18.35\00:37:20.88
so I think understanding
that there is at least
00:37:20.89\00:37:23.05
a designer is a
first step toward God.
00:37:23.06\00:37:25.16
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:37:25.17\00:37:26.43
So Davies is saying-
Davies is not by himself,
00:37:26.44\00:37:29.39
he says, there is a
majority of physicists.
00:37:29.40\00:37:31.25
The majority of
physicists. As far as he knows
00:37:31.26\00:37:32.31
and here's
another one for example
00:37:32.32\00:37:34.18
we won't go
through a lot of them here
00:37:34.19\00:37:35.62
but just another
one. Owen Gingerich,
00:37:35.63\00:37:37.78
he's a former professor
of astronomy from Harvard.
00:37:37.79\00:37:40.88
He writes, "to me, belief in
a final cause, a Creator-God,
00:37:40.89\00:37:44.81
gives coherent understanding
of why the universe seems
00:37:44.82\00:37:48.55
so congenially
designed for the existence
00:37:48.56\00:37:51.02
of intelligent,
self-reflective life.
00:37:51.03\00:37:53.79
It would take only
small changes in numerous
00:37:53.80\00:37:56.49
physical constants to render
the universe uninhabitable.
00:37:56.50\00:38:00.16
Somehow, in the
words of Freeman Dyson,
00:38:00.17\00:38:02.47
this is a universe
that knew we were coming."
00:38:02.48\00:38:05.39
All right, I love it
there is a term David
00:38:05.40\00:38:08.48
congenially designed for-- Yeah,
00:38:08.49\00:38:09.75
you picked up on that too,
00:38:09.76\00:38:10.96
I'm so glad you
picked up. Yeah, I love that.
00:38:10.97\00:38:11.99
that God put it together
00:38:12.00\00:38:13.14
and if you
change any of a thousand
00:38:13.15\00:38:15.21
variables we could not be.
It was perfectly done for us.
00:38:15.22\00:38:18.92
From the big things
all the way up in universe,
00:38:18.93\00:38:21.23
galaxy, solar
system, planet earth,
00:38:21.24\00:38:24.18
even down to the atomic level.
00:38:24.19\00:38:25.80
Yeah, and you know,
after a while you start
00:38:25.81\00:38:27.85
asking what are odds that
these just happened, you know.
00:38:27.86\00:38:32.21
If I'm not mistaken
Davies's written a book,
00:38:32.22\00:38:34.60
I've got one of his
books Cosmic Jackpot,
00:38:34.61\00:38:37.11
he's written
another book I think called
00:38:37.12\00:38:38.69
Goldilocks
Universe or something.
00:38:38.70\00:38:40.96
A lot of these are related
to gambling, good or bad,
00:38:40.97\00:38:43.16
you know, because
you know what are odds
00:38:43.17\00:38:45.73
if some starts drawing ace
cards on you for every hand
00:38:45.74\00:38:48.11
pretty soon you're
gonna be wondering,
00:38:48.12\00:38:50.22
"Hey, maybe this guys is
deliberately cheating here,
00:38:50.23\00:38:54.60
you know." And the same
thing with the universe,
00:38:54.61\00:38:55.85
maybe the
universe is deliberately
00:38:55.86\00:38:57.58
set up to be like this.
00:38:57.59\00:38:59.08
Like it says there. You
know, this is a universe
00:38:59.09\00:39:00.69
that knew we were coming.
So, okay, we ask the question,
00:39:00.70\00:39:03.83
why believe in
creation at all? You've given us
00:39:03.84\00:39:05.45
sort of two answers here or
we've given the two answers,
00:39:05.46\00:39:08.63
we've all been interacting here.
00:39:08.64\00:39:10.23
And the first is, first
of all the appropriateness
00:39:10.24\00:39:12.65
of the language of
physics and mathematics
00:39:12.66\00:39:14.53
to describe the universe,
00:39:14.54\00:39:15.60
that there are minds
here to get it, Right.
00:39:15.61\00:39:16.82
And that we can understand that.
00:39:16.83\00:39:18.50
And the second is that there
are these anthropic principles
00:39:18.51\00:39:22.26
that sort of scream
designer, intentionality, God.
00:39:22.27\00:39:26.39
And these are not the
conclusions of Bible study.
00:39:26.40\00:39:29.52
You know, physicist
aren't saying, "You know what,
00:39:29.53\00:39:30.72
what it say there
Ecclesiastes." You know,
00:39:30.73\00:39:32.49
they're looking
though telescopes., yeah.
00:39:32.50\00:39:33.85
Right, and lot of
them are opposed naturally
00:39:33.86\00:39:38.18
to theology or any
religious implications.
00:39:38.19\00:39:41.13
Some of them are forced against
00:39:41.14\00:39:42.59
their will to
this conclusion. Yeah.
00:39:42.60\00:39:44.20
some of them didn't like it.
00:39:44.21\00:39:45.31
Right. In fact, a
lot of them don't like.
00:39:45.32\00:39:46.96
But they're
following the classic dictum
00:39:46.97\00:39:48.53
to go where the
evidence leads. Oh, yeah.
00:39:48.54\00:39:50.23
Okay, so now let's go to--
00:39:50.24\00:39:51.58
let's move to our next question,
00:39:51.59\00:39:52.58
let's transition
which is sort of.
00:39:52.59\00:39:55.02
Okay, so now we've
got God or designer
00:39:55.03\00:39:57.77
but what we believe what
C.A. believes, what I believe,
00:39:57.78\00:40:00.88
what you believe probably what
many of our viewers believe,
00:40:00.89\00:40:04.03
is a literal six day creation,
God said it and I believe it
00:40:04.04\00:40:09.79
that settles it kind of a thing.
00:40:09.80\00:40:11.16
So but that's just a
matter of faith, right.
00:40:11.17\00:40:13.28
There is no
scientific evidence for that.
00:40:13.29\00:40:15.93
Well, if that was
true, I mean-- I set him up.
00:40:15.94\00:40:19.65
If there's no real
science, scientific evidence
00:40:19.66\00:40:22.28
for your faith, you know,
when we're told to provide
00:40:22.29\00:40:25.32
a reason for your believe.
00:40:25.33\00:40:26.58
If I asked you
why you have faith
00:40:26.59\00:40:28.67
what would be your reason?
00:40:28.68\00:40:29.99
For me? Some people would say,
00:40:30.00\00:40:32.07
I've asked this
of a lot of people.
00:40:32.08\00:40:34.73
Some people say
because I feel it,
00:40:34.74\00:40:37.28
I feel that God is spoken
to me, I feel this impression,
00:40:37.29\00:40:39.51
this deep impression.
But to be honest with you,
00:40:39.52\00:40:41.98
I've never felt
this, I've never felt this
00:40:41.99\00:40:44.32
God speaking to me,
this deep impression,
00:40:44.33\00:40:46.09
I haven't had an
angel talk to me.
00:40:46.10\00:40:47.83
So what it, what
do I have to give me
00:40:47.84\00:40:51.60
any confidence in
that. And those like me,
00:40:51.61\00:40:54.29
who've never been
had divine revelation
00:40:54.30\00:40:56.40
in such a direct way,
I'm not just counting it,
00:40:56.41\00:40:58.82
I'm just saying there
are lot of people like myself
00:40:58.83\00:41:00.73
who've never experience
such a direct revelation.
00:41:00.74\00:41:02.73
Yeah, I don't.
00:41:02.74\00:41:03.73
And so for those
of us like myself,
00:41:03.74\00:41:05.67
I think there is abundant
evidence in nature beyond
00:41:05.68\00:41:09.81
the anthropic
principle to believe in the,
00:41:09.82\00:41:13.86
not only that the
biblical authors indented
00:41:13.87\00:41:16.40
to write a literal narrative
of real events in history.
00:41:16.41\00:41:19.79
But that this literal narrative
has good evidence in nature.
00:41:19.80\00:41:24.41
So let me just make
sure, I'm understanding
00:41:24.42\00:41:25.73
that you're
saying, you're saying
00:41:25.74\00:41:27.07
that what the Bible says
about the origin of the world
00:41:27.08\00:41:31.05
and of course, the flood,
the catastrophe that took place
00:41:31.06\00:41:35.41
that there is
scientific evidence
00:41:35.42\00:41:36.54
to sort of
support this. Right, Okay.
00:41:36.55\00:41:39.38
At least, I mean for
example Seventh-day Adventist
00:41:39.39\00:41:45.00
believe as a church
organization anyway,
00:41:45.01\00:41:48.22
that creation took
place in six literal days.
00:41:48.23\00:41:53.16
Well, I believe that.
00:41:53.17\00:41:54.53
If I go outside, you
say, well, prove it to me,
00:41:54.54\00:41:56.98
right? Well, here
let say, oh, yeah,
00:41:56.99\00:41:58.83
okay go head and prove
it outside of the Bible.
00:41:58.84\00:42:01.38
I can't actually prove it
to you that six literal days
00:42:01.39\00:42:04.56
but I can show you a
lot of things that scream
00:42:04.57\00:42:06.73
catastrophe and
short chronology.
00:42:06.74\00:42:09.42
So what are some of those thing?
00:42:09.43\00:42:10.42
At least much shorter
than main stream geology.
00:42:10.43\00:42:12.47
What are and we could
talk about the theology C.A.
00:42:12.48\00:42:15.26
but that's really not
the purpose of the program
00:42:15.27\00:42:17.57
we could say, "What
are the biblical reasons
00:42:17.58\00:42:19.92
for believing that
that's what Moses indented
00:42:19.93\00:42:22.64
to communicate?" And I
think we're taking Moses
00:42:22.65\00:42:25.41
that face value, I
think we're taking Jesus
00:42:25.42\00:42:27.43
that face value,
he obviously endorse
00:42:27.44\00:42:29.21
the mosaic
scriptures and accounts.
00:42:29.22\00:42:31.35
So, so I think we
can sort of have that
00:42:31.36\00:42:34.11
as a bottom-line at least here.
00:42:34.12\00:42:37.37
Yeah, at least here for
us. But it's not just us to,
00:42:37.38\00:42:39.89
even secular
scholars, Hebrews scholars
00:42:39.90\00:42:42.03
at well known universities,
secular universities
00:42:42.04\00:42:45.48
will support us on this one.
00:42:45.49\00:42:47.48
Yeah, you shared
a quotation with me,
00:42:47.49\00:42:48.88
I think you have it with you
one time from, from John Barr.
00:42:48.89\00:42:52.58
James Barr, James Barr.
00:42:52.59\00:42:54.40
who sort of a
renowned Hebrew scholar.
00:42:54.41\00:42:58.33
And he basically
says, it's obviously--
00:42:58.34\00:43:01.35
why don't you read it to you?
00:43:01.36\00:43:02.40
Sure, let's. Yeah
James Barr, L.A. professor
00:43:02.41\00:43:05.65
of Hebrew from Oxford. He writes
00:43:05.66\00:43:08.92
a very interesting statement
I think. He says, "Probably,
00:43:08.93\00:43:11.56
so far as I know, there
is no professor of Hebrew
00:43:11.57\00:43:15.01
or Old Testament studies
at any world-class university
00:43:15.02\00:43:19.42
who does not believe
that the writers of Genesis 1
00:43:19.43\00:43:22.36
through 11 intended to
convey to their readers
00:43:22.37\00:43:25.80
the ideas that number
one, creation took place
00:43:25.81\00:43:28.65
in a series of six
days which were the same
00:43:28.66\00:43:31.38
as a 24 hours we now
experience. And number two,
00:43:31.39\00:43:34.54
Noah's flood was
understood to be world-wide
00:43:34.55\00:43:37.17
and extinguish all
human and animal life
00:43:37.18\00:43:39.65
except for those on the
ark. Or, to put it negatively,
00:43:39.66\00:43:43.77
the apologetic
arguments which suppose
00:43:43.78\00:43:45.90
the 'days' of creation
to be long eras of time,
00:43:45.91\00:43:48.83
the figures of years
not to be chronological,
00:43:48.84\00:43:51.56
and the flood to be a
merely local Mesopotamian flood,
00:43:51.57\00:43:55.17
are not taken seriously
by any such professors,
00:43:55.18\00:43:58.20
as far as I know."
Wow, yeah powerful.
00:43:58.21\00:44:01.76
In other words. And
he doesn't necessarily
00:44:01.77\00:44:04.29
believe that
Genesis account is correct.
00:44:04.30\00:44:06.38
He just believes that
the authors of the Genesis
00:44:06.39\00:44:08.42
account indented to
convey a literal account
00:44:08.43\00:44:11.35
of historical
occurance. He just thinks
00:44:11.36\00:44:12.49
that they are wrong
which is much different--
00:44:12.50\00:44:14.30
Which makes it even more
profound that he saying that.
00:44:14.31\00:44:16.43
Precisely, yeah,
yeah. So that if you come up
00:44:16.44\00:44:18.81
with six
indeterminate principle time
00:44:18.82\00:44:20.73
that cannot be
defended from the scripture.
00:44:20.74\00:44:22.51
From the text.
00:44:22.52\00:44:23.51
Because those guys are trying
to tell you six literal days.
00:44:23.52\00:44:26.21
If you come with anything
else that's doing violence
00:44:26.22\00:44:28.82
to what they're
trying to say. You nailed it.
00:44:28.83\00:44:30.24
For the intent of
the author. Precisely.
00:44:30.25\00:44:31.60
It's different to say,
well, the author indented
00:44:31.61\00:44:33.22
to say this and
he's just wrong. Yeah.
00:44:33.23\00:44:35.08
That's a whole
different scenario.
00:44:35.09\00:44:36.59
Argument it is, yeah. Okay.
00:44:36.60\00:44:37.61
So then what are some of
those, you said, you said,
00:44:37.62\00:44:41.29
there are some
things that scream
00:44:41.30\00:44:42.63
catastrophe and
scream young earth.
00:44:42.64\00:44:44.38
Right.
00:44:44.39\00:44:45.76
Okay, so do a little
screaming. Scream, scream away.
00:44:45.77\00:44:48.84
Scream away. All right,
00:44:48.85\00:44:50.04
let say you go out
to a mountain range
00:44:50.05\00:44:53.01
or like the Grand
Canyon is a classic example.
00:44:53.02\00:44:56.18
And you look at-- I think
we're gotta picture of that.
00:44:56.19\00:44:58.40
Of course many have seen that.
00:44:58.41\00:44:59.52
We do have a
picture of Grand Canyon.
00:44:59.53\00:45:01.10
Here we have sedimentary
layers, sedimentary rock.
00:45:01.11\00:45:04.67
Everybody believes that
this rock is laid down by water.
00:45:04.68\00:45:08.29
The challenge is that
most mainstream geologists
00:45:08.30\00:45:11.85
believe it was laid down
over vast periods of time.
00:45:11.86\00:45:14.51
And that there's gaps in time
between each of these layers
00:45:14.52\00:45:17.13
that are
millions of years. Okay.
00:45:17.14\00:45:19.78
But the problem, if
you consider this as that
00:45:19.79\00:45:22.01
if each layer represented
the surface of the ground
00:45:22.02\00:45:24.74
for millions of
years of time, you ask,
00:45:24.75\00:45:27.18
you have to ask yourselves,
well, where is the erosion,
00:45:27.19\00:45:29.78
the evidence of
erosion where you would expect
00:45:29.79\00:45:32.17
to see gouged out places
00:45:32.18\00:45:34.22
and unevenness
generally throughout.
00:45:34.23\00:45:37.21
And beyond this Arthur
Chadwick from Southwestern,
00:45:37.22\00:45:41.37
he's doing studies on what's
call bioturbation where-- Bio--
00:45:41.38\00:45:45.87
Bioturbation. Bioturbation.
00:45:45.88\00:45:48.19
I was just
reading a book on that.
00:45:48.20\00:45:50.78
I'm sure you were.
I didn't get that one.
00:45:50.79\00:45:54.20
Oh, it's classic. Bioturbation.
00:45:54.21\00:45:56.43
What is bioturbation?
There we go, there we go.
00:45:56.44\00:45:58.60
Thank you.
That's why we said it.
00:45:58.61\00:45:59.71
David's reading
now withstanding.
00:45:59.72\00:46:01.95
Yeah, what are we talking about?
00:46:01.96\00:46:03.75
It's essentially
where burrowing creatures
00:46:03.76\00:46:05.85
go in and turn up the ground,
any creature that burrows --
00:46:05.86\00:46:08.91
Like my kids. Exactly.
00:46:08.92\00:46:10.37
Okay, okay.
00:46:10.38\00:46:12.50
So usually over
the course of a year
00:46:12.51\00:46:15.17
or two borrowing
creatures will go and turn up
00:46:15.18\00:46:17.50
the ground after the
deposit of flood sediments
00:46:17.51\00:46:20.64
and mess up the layers
so that you will not be able
00:46:20.65\00:46:23.00
to recognize the layers anymore
after about a year or two.
00:46:23.01\00:46:26.68
Well, according to
Arthur Chadwick and others
00:46:26.69\00:46:29.31
researching this
within the Fossil record
00:46:29.32\00:46:31.73
in Geologic Column
bioturbation is minimal at best,
00:46:31.74\00:46:35.35
it's very minimal, it's not
what you would expect of these
00:46:35.36\00:46:38.09
layers really
represent vast periods of times.
00:46:38.10\00:46:40.15
Millions and millions of years.
00:46:40.16\00:46:41.27
Right, because the
layers are so crisp
00:46:41.28\00:46:42.37
and well defined and they
are so flat for all the --
00:46:42.38\00:46:44.67
So you have
worms, you have mammals,
00:46:44.68\00:46:46.23
you have mollusks and
things that are sort of digging
00:46:46.24\00:46:48.49
in the sentiment, mixing it
up. But when we see for example
00:46:48.50\00:46:51.71
that picture
there of grand canyon,
00:46:51.72\00:46:52.89
it's just these almost,
00:46:52.90\00:46:53.89
it's almost like
they're cut with a laser, Yeah.
00:46:53.90\00:46:55.17
I was just at the
Grand Canyon and it's just--
00:46:55.18\00:46:57.06
Yeah, they're
so precise and so--
00:46:57.07\00:46:59.50
So where is the
erosion, where is angulations,
00:46:59.51\00:47:01.92
where is-- I mean,
because the surface of the earth
00:47:01.93\00:47:03.48
today we just
drove here, we're here
00:47:03.49\00:47:04.79
in Southern Illinois
there's where's that at?
00:47:04.80\00:47:06.90
Evidently the world was a very,
00:47:06.91\00:47:08.38
very flat place for very
long time and it never eroded.
00:47:08.39\00:47:11.15
Flat earth. Yeah.
00:47:11.16\00:47:13.24
Okay.
00:47:13.25\00:47:14.73
So, yeah, that's-- And
so what's our explanation
00:47:14.74\00:47:17.67
of that? What's the
biblical explanation?
00:47:17.68\00:47:19.45
It seems much more
consistent that these layers
00:47:19.46\00:47:21.88
were laid down by
water rapidly one on top
00:47:21.89\00:47:24.17
of the other either
by, by a series of rapid
00:47:24.18\00:47:27.20
catastrophic events
that were closely spaced,
00:47:27.21\00:47:29.24
so close together that
these digging creatures
00:47:29.25\00:47:32.46
didn't have time
to mess up the layers
00:47:32.47\00:47:34.55
and that there was
no time for erosion
00:47:34.56\00:47:37.57
between the layers to
any significant degree.
00:47:37.58\00:47:39.92
Okay, so it just
looks like what you say
00:47:39.93\00:47:42.06
rapid deposition that
was lay down, it was flat,
00:47:42.07\00:47:44.30
you don't have time
for undulation, or evenness
00:47:44.31\00:47:46.94
another is lay down so
what's rapid, rapid deposition?
00:47:46.95\00:47:49.87
For example if
it's before the flood
00:47:49.88\00:47:52.30
there was no really
high mountain ranges to block
00:47:52.31\00:47:55.45
any sort of
tidal action worldwide
00:47:55.46\00:47:57.80
and if whole world
was covered by water.
00:47:57.81\00:48:00.17
You could get massive
tidal waves, you know,
00:48:00.18\00:48:02.07
2,000 feet tall
traveling at the speed
00:48:02.08\00:48:04.40
of sound for example.
And what's gonna stop them
00:48:04.41\00:48:06.91
if there is no
massive mountain ranges,
00:48:06.92\00:48:09.05
they'll go around and around.
00:48:09.06\00:48:10.57
And every time they
go around they're gonna
00:48:10.58\00:48:12.50
lay down another
layer of sediment.
00:48:12.51\00:48:15.00
It's not like I can
explain all the feature
00:48:15.01\00:48:16.41
of the geological column
or the fossil record, yeah.
00:48:16.42\00:48:18.41
But those particular
features seem to fit better
00:48:18.42\00:48:21.16
with a flood model or
at least a catastrophic
00:48:21.17\00:48:23.71
model of shortly
space get catastrophes.
00:48:23.72\00:48:25.62
Okay, now you mention
erosion there couple of times,
00:48:25.63\00:48:27.89
I'm a rock
climber, I love climbing.
00:48:27.90\00:48:29.63
I know you're into that to C.A.
00:48:29.64\00:48:31.22
That would be no.
00:48:31.23\00:48:33.65
But let just say, let
just say that I wanted
00:48:33.66\00:48:35.42
to go to Mount
Everest and I've climbed
00:48:35.43\00:48:37.95
to the top of Mount Everest
which isn't really a climb
00:48:37.96\00:48:39.76
as more of a hike
where there is no oxygen.
00:48:39.77\00:48:42.38
And I get to the
top of Mount Everest
00:48:42.39\00:48:44.01
and I begin to dig down
through the snow so to speak
00:48:44.02\00:48:47.29
what will find
there? What kind of rock
00:48:47.30\00:48:48.94
am I encountering at
the top of Mount Everest,
00:48:48.95\00:48:50.85
the tallest
mountain on the planet?
00:48:50.86\00:48:52.94
You'd encounter sedimentary
rock on the top of mountain.
00:48:52.95\00:48:56.04
The same kind of rock that
we see there in the Grand Canyon
00:48:56.05\00:48:58.21
that's laid down by
water. What's it doing up there?
00:48:58.22\00:49:01.71
Well, the Indian subcontinent
crush into the Asian
00:49:01.72\00:49:04.24
continent it built
the Himalayan Mountains.
00:49:04.25\00:49:07.44
And so those
mountains used to be flat
00:49:07.45\00:49:10.85
and covered by water, at
least the sediment was deposit
00:49:10.86\00:49:14.30
by water and then
when they were pushed up.
00:49:14.31\00:49:15.78
So they're sort
of pushed together.
00:49:15.79\00:49:16.79
They pushed up and
then the sedimentary rock
00:49:16.80\00:49:19.03
worked up on top of them.
00:49:19.04\00:49:20.49
Well here's my
question good doctor.
00:49:20.50\00:49:21.54
Scientist see this
sedimentary rock on the top
00:49:21.55\00:49:24.21
of the tallest
mountain in the world.
00:49:24.22\00:49:25.33
How do they explain that?
00:49:25.34\00:49:26.88
They explain with the same way.
00:49:26.89\00:49:27.99
They say, yes it was
originally flat and laid down
00:49:28.00\00:49:30.81
by water and then
they got pushed up
00:49:30.82\00:49:32.79
but they just say it was
pushed up 50 million years ago.
00:49:32.80\00:49:35.51
Okay, okay.
00:49:35.52\00:49:36.51
But then the question is. Yeah.
00:49:36.52\00:49:38.81
why is the sedimentary
rock still on the tops
00:49:38.82\00:49:40.80
of these mountains if
they've been exposed for--
00:49:40.81\00:49:42.62
Fifty million years.
00:49:42.63\00:49:43.62
We should be more than
eroded down to the igneous rock
00:49:43.63\00:49:47.28
The Himalayans are
erode in extremely rapidly.
00:49:47.29\00:49:50.09
In fact they erode in so
rapidly that even exposure for
00:49:50.10\00:49:52.89
20 million years
like Mountain Everest,
00:49:52.90\00:49:54.64
half of the layers slid
off Mount Everest in mainstream
00:49:54.65\00:49:59.23
geology about 20
million years ago.
00:49:59.24\00:50:01.33
So here we have exposure of
half the sedimentary layer for
00:50:01.34\00:50:04.49
20 million years like current
erosion rates it should have
00:50:04.50\00:50:06.89
been wiped out three
or four times by now.
00:50:06.90\00:50:08.67
Sure, sure.
00:50:08.68\00:50:09.67
So why is it still
there that's a big question?
00:50:09.68\00:50:12.51
That sort of
speaks a young earth.
00:50:12.52\00:50:15.86
Right, same thing
for the Rocky Mountains.
00:50:15.87\00:50:17.43
Why are the sedimentary layers
00:50:17.44\00:50:19.10
still on top of
the Rocky Mountains.
00:50:19.11\00:50:20.48
They should have
been eroded away.
00:50:20.49\00:50:21.48
Yeah, they should have all
been washed away because the
00:50:21.49\00:50:23.12
Rocky Mountains
started their mountain building
00:50:23.13\00:50:25.60
and according to mainstream
geologist 70 million years ago.
00:50:25.61\00:50:28.25
Okay, so now we
don't take that position.
00:50:28.26\00:50:31.80
We take the position that this
happen more recently and more
00:50:31.81\00:50:34.50
rapidly and obviously more
catastrophically and there's
00:50:34.51\00:50:38.11
even evidence for that not
just in terms of what we might
00:50:38.12\00:50:40.77
call ancient erosion
but even erosion right now.
00:50:40.78\00:50:44.02
It's obviously that kind of
little continental movements
00:50:44.03\00:50:47.95
of created mountain thrusts
and uprisings and also deep
00:50:47.96\00:50:51.66
ocean trenches, the continents
have crashed into each other
00:50:51.67\00:50:55.18
that's pretty
clear to all of us.
00:50:55.19\00:50:56.27
We just, at least I believe
that this happen much more
00:50:56.28\00:50:59.71
rapidly than
mainstream geologist team.
00:50:59.72\00:51:01.93
Now when you, when you
anyone who's looked at globe
00:51:01.94\00:51:04.36
or a picture of the,
you know, map of the world.
00:51:04.37\00:51:08.13
The continents sure look like
they'd fit together just like
00:51:08.14\00:51:11.98
a puzzle piece, I mean
if could just sort of move
00:51:11.99\00:51:14.52
the Eastern and the Western
world's together and we gotta
00:51:14.53\00:51:17.02
picture there on the screen
and you sort of stick them
00:51:17.03\00:51:18.89
together in the middle of
say it'd be Atlantic ocean.
00:51:18.90\00:51:20.66
So this is called Pangea.
00:51:20.67\00:51:22.92
Yeah, the continents
before they slit apart where,
00:51:22.93\00:51:25.87
it's given the name of Pangea.
00:51:25.88\00:51:27.86
But the splitting apart
of the continents according
00:51:27.87\00:51:31.65
to mainstream thinking happen
about 200 million years ago.
00:51:31.66\00:51:34.60
Let's say there were people
there that we're observing it.
00:51:34.61\00:51:36.88
Oh, yes. Yes.
00:51:36.89\00:51:38.27
So my question as
if that really split
00:51:38.28\00:51:40.52
a part 200
million years ago. Okay.
00:51:40.53\00:51:42.12
How do you explain
current coastal erosion rates
00:51:42.13\00:51:45.08
that are
extremely rapid like-- Yeah.
00:51:45.09\00:51:46.71
For example in the Carolinas
you get rapid coastal erosion
00:51:46.72\00:51:51.02
up to meters every year.
00:51:51.03\00:51:52.53
Meters? Meters.
00:51:52.54\00:51:53.53
And same thing with
California. All right.
00:51:53.54\00:51:55.37
Florida spending lot of
money trying to prevent erosion,
00:51:55.38\00:51:58.27
Japan is really
concerned about erosion, Yeah.
00:51:58.28\00:51:59.92
Because that's all they got,
you know that little island.
00:51:59.93\00:52:01.58
And so let's
just imagine though,
00:52:01.59\00:52:05.14
let's just say it's
one centimeter of erosion
00:52:05.15\00:52:07.69
on average per year.
00:52:07.70\00:52:09.12
But some areas are--
00:52:09.13\00:52:10.41
Much, their over average
is way greater than that.
00:52:10.42\00:52:13.10
Well, let's just
say it's one centimeter.
00:52:13.11\00:52:14.36
We'll be gracious. Right.
00:52:14.37\00:52:15.65
Well, what's that equate
to over 200 million years.
00:52:15.66\00:52:19.06
Wow, Is to thousand
kilometers of erosion
00:52:19.07\00:52:21.98
on all sides of continent.
00:52:21.99\00:52:23.31
Yeah. So my question is--
00:52:23.32\00:52:24.72
It's 1200, 1100, 1200
miles-- Miles on all sides.
00:52:24.73\00:52:28.05
But technically it had it been
00:52:28.06\00:52:29.63
around that long
it wouldn't be here.
00:52:29.64\00:52:31.49
Not only would it be
here is why is it still fit--
00:52:31.50\00:52:33.69
Why does it so fit
together? Precisely.
00:52:33.70\00:52:35.67
Why did all the edge is
still match up like a puzzle
00:52:35.68\00:52:38.28
if it were hear so long ago.
00:52:38.29\00:52:39.89
Okay, so it looks sort
of like this very crudely
00:52:39.90\00:52:41.64
but if they'd been
eroding away we wouldn't--
00:52:41.65\00:52:43.43
I don't know it be irregular
they wouldn't match overtime.
00:52:43.44\00:52:46.39
Yeah, But they fact they
match wonderful, beautiful.
00:52:46.40\00:52:48.98
So it seems more reasonable
that there was a recent split
00:52:49.37\00:52:52.25
maybe to some
catastrophic energy
00:52:52.26\00:52:55.88
release that was truly massive.
00:52:55.89\00:52:57.60
And the caused a rapid
drift or slit apart originally.
00:52:57.61\00:53:01.74
But as like crashing cars,
the start of the crash is very
00:53:01.75\00:53:05.54
rapid but as the
energy is released or absorbed
00:53:05.55\00:53:09.12
by the crashing
cars the car slow down.
00:53:09.13\00:53:11.27
Same thing with the continents
as they crashed together
00:53:11.28\00:53:13.65
they slow down building all
these mountain ranges and ocean
00:53:13.66\00:53:16.25
trenches, it uses up energy
00:53:16.26\00:53:17.97
and it slows
down crashing effect.
00:53:17.98\00:53:20.53
But if these erosion
rates have been going on
00:53:20.54\00:53:22.44
at the current rates which
is I mean and we've been very
00:53:22.45\00:53:26.45
conservative we
said a centimeter a year.
00:53:26.46\00:53:28.97
We wouldn't expect it to look.
00:53:28.98\00:53:29.95
So that looks like
that happens recently.
00:53:29.96\00:53:31.72
It looks to me
like it does, yes.
00:53:31.73\00:53:33.51
Okay, okay.
00:53:33.52\00:53:34.51
And the same thing with surface
erosion with similar thing.
00:53:34.52\00:53:37.16
Surface erosion rates
are happen in very rapidly at
00:53:37.17\00:53:40.12
about 30 billion tons per year
of sediment is been deposited
00:53:40.13\00:53:44.69
into the oceans every year
and arguably it only about 2
00:53:44.70\00:53:47.85
billion tons of
that is being sub-ducted
00:53:47.86\00:53:49.98
underneath the continents.
00:53:49.99\00:53:50.98
That means going
one sort of being
00:53:50.99\00:53:52.73
shoved under
the other continent.
00:53:52.74\00:53:53.86
Right, so you have a surplus
of 28 billion tons a year.
00:53:53.87\00:53:57.25
So let's just
do that math again.
00:53:57.26\00:53:58.83
You have sort of 30 billion
tons of sediment per year.
00:53:58.84\00:54:03.37
Deposit to-- And then
deposit it into the ocean.
00:54:03.38\00:54:05.99
By rivers you know.
00:54:06.00\00:54:06.99
Of course, and then
you have rains and things,
00:54:07.00\00:54:09.51
so you have and then 2 billions
00:54:09.52\00:54:11.25
of we can account
for by sub-duction.
00:54:11.26\00:54:12.52
All right so where
is other 28 billion.
00:54:13.29\00:54:14.89
Well, it builds up until
the oceans but right now we have
00:54:14.90\00:54:18.08
about 10 to the
17 tons to the power
00:54:18.09\00:54:22.38
of 17 tons of
sediment in the oceans.
00:54:22.39\00:54:25.02
And that's sounds
like lot it's a big number.
00:54:25.03\00:54:26.81
A hundred, hundred thousand
00:54:26.82\00:54:29.10
billion tons of
sediment layer's in the ocean.
00:54:29.11\00:54:31.11
But if you actually do the
math you can account for that
00:54:31.12\00:54:34.25
and in less then 5 million
years at current sedimentary
00:54:34.26\00:54:37.09
deposit this into the ocean.
00:54:37.10\00:54:39.00
So like, well, you
know, this is if it really --
00:54:39.01\00:54:42.03
This has been going on
for nearly 200 million years,
00:54:42.04\00:54:43.99
you know it should be
filled with sediment by now,
00:54:44.00\00:54:46.19
you know lot more.
00:54:46.20\00:54:47.38
Why is there so little
sediment and beyond that,
00:54:47.39\00:54:49.48
why is there any
sedimentary layers left of top
00:54:49.49\00:54:52.84
of the continents
because they should
00:54:52.85\00:54:54.92
all be washed into the
ocean within 10 million years.
00:54:54.93\00:54:56.99
Now, good Doctor and David,
we are racing towards the end
00:54:57.00\00:54:59.34
of our first hour and
you can see what we're doing,
00:54:59.35\00:55:02.38
this maybe little
technical but stick with us,
00:55:02.39\00:55:05.07
this is good information. Yeah.
00:55:05.08\00:55:06.26
This is a kind of thing
you may want to just write us
00:55:06.27\00:55:08.72
and get the tape or the DVD
00:55:08.73\00:55:11.27
because there's a lot
of good information here
00:55:11.28\00:55:13.47
that will fortify you and
sort of buttress your argument
00:55:13.48\00:55:15.97
and your faith in
a loving creator God.
00:55:15.98\00:55:19.72
Now we want to talk about
the free offer for the evening
00:55:19.73\00:55:22.73
which is Christian
illustrated magazine really,
00:55:22.74\00:55:25.17
really good magazine a
lot of good information
00:55:25.18\00:55:27.31
and it has really
neat pictures also
00:55:27.32\00:55:29.52
but a lot of
really good information.
00:55:29.53\00:55:30.91
We will get this to
you if you will email us
00:55:30.92\00:55:33.35
at freeoffer@3ABN.org
freeoffer@3ABN.org,
00:55:33.36\00:55:37.78
or call us, 618-218
or rather (618)-627-4651.
00:55:37.79\00:55:44.56
(618)-627-4651 and
we'll get it out to you.
00:55:44.57\00:55:49.15
If you are interested
in sending us a question,
00:55:49.16\00:55:53.31
something we're saying
is peaking your mind or some
00:55:53.32\00:55:55.23
of this big words of
good doctor is throwing at us.
00:55:55.24\00:55:57.19
You want to know what
they mean, you can contact us,
00:55:57.20\00:56:00.08
questions in the
second half live@3abn.org
00:56:00.09\00:56:04.13
for your
questions, comments or again
00:56:04.14\00:56:07.19
(618)-6274651
and we'll try to get
00:56:07.20\00:56:10.44
to them in the second half.
00:56:10.45\00:56:12.05
Our time is far
slip, fast slipping away
00:56:12.06\00:56:13.68
but I find this fascinating.
00:56:13.69\00:56:15.30
I truly do.
00:56:15.31\00:56:17.32
I'm fascinated by the
idea that my faith is backed up
00:56:17.33\00:56:20.62
by good, hard,
science and empirical evidence
00:56:20.80\00:56:24.71
and we getting a lot
of that tonight, David.
00:56:24.72\00:56:26.47
Well, I think that some of the
evidence we're sort of getting
00:56:26.48\00:56:29.53
into here is, as you
say buttressing our faith,
00:56:29.54\00:56:33.11
but, you know
think of the classic
00:56:33.12\00:56:34.37
definition of
faith there in Hebrews.
00:56:34.38\00:56:36.01
Faith is the substance of
things hoped for what's that
00:56:36.02\00:56:38.22
next word the
evidence of things not seen.
00:56:38.23\00:56:40.42
We often think of faith here
and evidence and science here
00:56:40.43\00:56:43.43
but the truth of the
matter is that all faith
00:56:43.44\00:56:45.52
rests on evidence. Yeah.
00:56:45.53\00:56:47.12
What we're doing
tonight is we're just looking
00:56:47.13\00:56:49.02
at some of that
persuasive evidence.
00:56:49.03\00:56:51.31
Now it's not proof, you
know, proof exists basically
00:56:51.32\00:56:54.16
only in math but we're looking--
00:56:54.17\00:56:55.82
Not even in math lately.
00:56:55.83\00:56:56.94
Yeah, that's true, that's true.
00:56:56.95\00:56:57.94
But people say sometimes
prove to me that there's a God
00:56:57.95\00:57:01.40
what we're going to try
and do is provide evidence here
00:57:01.41\00:57:04.08
that says, "Hey,
give this a chance,
00:57:04.09\00:57:06.56
invite Jesus into your heart,
ask him to come and reveal
00:57:06.57\00:57:09.89
to you the truthfulness of
his word because the scientific
00:57:09.90\00:57:11.79
evidence, the data is
there to support the biblical,
00:57:11.80\00:57:15.49
the Bibles chronology
and perspective on the earth,
00:57:15.50\00:57:19.54
on the
universes as we've learned
00:57:19.55\00:57:20.78
and even down to
the atomic level.
00:57:20.79\00:57:23.06
I'm so thankful to
know that God made an earth,
00:57:23.07\00:57:26.64
a world, a universe
that can be understood
00:57:26.65\00:57:28.70
and then gave me
mind to understand it.
00:57:28.71\00:57:31.40
Which is your first point
which I think is just fabulous.
00:57:31.41\00:57:33.18
I think it's really good.
00:57:33.19\00:57:34.18
Well, our time has slipped
away for this first hour,
00:57:34.19\00:57:37.59
you take a break,
get a drink of water,
00:57:37.60\00:57:39.76
breath in and breath
out we will do the same.
00:57:39.77\00:57:41.47
And then we'll see you in just
a few moments as we come back
00:57:41.48\00:57:45.20
and talk about
more really good stuff.
00:57:45.21\00:57:47.34
Well be right back.
00:57:47.35\00:57:48.82