Participants: Pr. John Lomacang (Host), Lincoln Steed
Series Code: TL
Program Code: TL017503B
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00:10 ♪ >> WELCOME BACK TO THE SECOND
00:18 HOUR OF 3ABN LIVE ON THURSDAY NIGHT HERE IN THOMPSONVILLE. 00:21 THIS IS IN THE CENTRAL STATES OF AMERICA. 00:26 WE'RE ON CENTRAL TIME ZONE. SOMETIMES I SAY WE LIVE IN 00:30 CENTRAL AMERICA. THAT IS NOT EXACTLY 00:34 GEOGRAPHICALLY CORRCT, BUT THAT'S HOW I LIKE TO TERM IT, 00:36 BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH THAT HAPPENS HERE THAT IS ESSENTIAL 00:39 TO THE BELIEFS OF OUR NATION AND OUR WORLD, AND GOD HAS THE 00:44 BLESSED 3ABN TO BE AT THE HEAD OF MOVING AND MAKING AND SHARING 00:48 WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS, AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN RELIGION AND IN 00:55 SOME CASES MINE SET. WE HAVE LINCOLN STEED WHO IS 01:02 EDITOR OF "LIBERTY MAGAZINE." AND ALSO THE HOST OF "LIBERTY 01:08 INSIDER." THIS IS VITALLY IMPORTANT 01:10 BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE SAY POLITICS AND RELIGION DOESN'T MIX. 01:19 THEY SHOULD NOT COERCE EACH OTHER, BUT WE LIVE IN A 01:25 RELIGIOUSLY CHARGED ENVIRONMENT. IF YOU HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE 01:30 ELECTION FOR THE LAST 15, 20 YEARS, RELIGION IS PLAYING A 01:37 LARGE ROLE IN POLITICS. WHERE IS OUR NATION HEADING? 01:43 TOMORROW ON FRIDAY, JANUARY 21ST, THE INAUGURATION OF A NEW 01:49 ADMINISTRATION, DONALD TRUMP IS GO 01:52 GOING TO BE LIFTED TO THE HIGHEST SEAT IN THE NATION, AND 01:57 ONE OF THE TOUGHEST SEATS IN THE WORLD. 02:00 AND IF YOU HAE BEEN LISTENING -- IF YOU HAVE EARS 02:04 LIKE MINE, YOU CAN'T HELP BUT HEAR SOMETHING. 02:07 BUT THERE IS QUITE A BIT BEING SAID. 02:10 AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE IN FAVOR, AND THOSE AGAINST, BUT 02:14 WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING, ON THIS SOIL IN AMERICA, 02:18 EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IS FOR THE CITIZENRY IN AMERICA. 02:22 LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS. 02:25 GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE AGAIN. >> I FEEL LIKE THE BELLIS ABOUT 02:31 TO RING. >> SHAKE HANDS AND COME OUT 02:34 SWINGING. [ LAUGHTER ] 02:37 >> YOU HAVE THE SCAFFOLDING OF HISTORY, BECAUSE WE ARE DOOMED 02:41 TO REPEAT -- >> IF WE DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY, 02:45 WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT. >> SO MANY THINGS THAT WE OFTEN 02:52 SEE IN MILLENNIAL AMERICA, WE GET SO FAST THAT WE SOMETIMES 02:59 FORGET THAT THIS INFORMATION IS SUBORDINATE FOR INFORMATION 200, 03:08 200 YEARS AGO. >> BUT YOU HAVE PUT YOUR FINGER 03:13 ON WHY EVENTS ARE NOW ON OVERDRIVE. 03:16 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> WHEN AMERICA FIRST DECIDED TO 03:19 SEPARATE FROM ENGLAND. WHAT DID IT TAKE? 03:22 THREE FOUR WEEKS FOR WORD TO COME FROM ENGLAND. 03:28 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> EVEN IN THE CIVIL WAR, 03:32 REMEMBER THE TELEGRAPH WAS IN ITS INFANCY. 03:36 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> SO COMMUNICATION SPED 03:40 EVERYTHING UP, AND NOW TWITTER AND SOCIAL MEDIA MEANS ALMOST AT 03:45 A MOMENT'S NOTICE, YOUNG PEOPLE CAN BE MOBILIZED. 03:50 ATTITUDES THAT ALWAYS FILTER THROUGH A POPULATION THROUGH 03:52 WORLD OF MOUTH, BUT THEY HAPPEN LIKE THAT, RATHER THAN OVER 03:57 SEVERAL MONTHS, AND WHEN THOSE INTERSECT IT'S LIKE ON STEROIDS. 04:05 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> IT'S NOT A MYSTERY, BUT IT IS 04:10 STILL, REALLY, A NOVELTY TO US. BECAUSE MOST OF THE ADULTS IN 04:14 THE COUNTRY REMEMBER BACK WHEN COMPUTERS WERE BARELY BEGINNING. 04:21 I REMEMBER MY FIRST COMPUTER. AND IN THAT SHORT TIME, '85 TO 04:32 NOW, THE WORLD HAS CHANGED -- THE WORLD HAS 04:36 ARGUABLY CHANGED MORE IN THAT PERIOD BECAUSE OF THE EFFECTS OF 04:41 COMPUTERIZATION, THAN THE 100 YEARS OR SO OF 04:46 INDUSTRIALIZATION. >> THINGS GET OLD MUCH FASTER 04:51 NOWADAYS. YOU BUY A COMPUTER, IN THREE 04:55 YEARS THEY TALK ABOUT THAT CHANGES. 04:58 BUT THAT INFORMATION IS BEING FILTERED. 05:01 AND OFTEN SOMETIMES WHAT A NEWS ORGANIZATION DECIDES TO SEND TO 05:05 YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE IS NOT ALSO THE COMPLETE STORY. 05:09 IT IS DESIGNED TO GET YOU TO THINK ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. 05:13 SO THAT'S WHY IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT, DON'T ALLOW YOUR 05:19 FAITH TO BE SHAKEN TO THE CORE BY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA. 05:23 KNOW CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR FIRST AND FOREMOST, BUT DON'T CLOSE 05:28 YOUR EARS TO THE DEVELOPMENTS OF THE THINGS HAPPENING AROUND US, 05:33 THE DANGER. >> I DO BELIEVE WE'RE HEADING 05:37 TOWARDS THE WRAP UP OF HUMAN HISTORY AND THE FULL REVELATION 05:42 OF WHAT GOD INTENDS FOR THIS WORLD. 05:46 AND THEN AN INTERNAL KINGDOM AND BOND. 05:52 I DON'T THINK IT IS GUARANTEED THAT EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS 05:55 POLITICAL SHIFT IS ALL NEGATIVE. >> NO. 05:58 >> THERE HAVE BEEN MANY TIMES IN THE PAST WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT 06:04 THINGS WERE DISCONCERTING, PARTICULARLY THE ONE WHO LOST. 06:10 HAVE WE GONE SO FAR WHEN ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN AMERICA 06:21 HAS BECOME PRESIDENT? GEORGE WASHINGTON WAS ONE OF THE 06:25 WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE COUNTRY. HE MOVED THE CAPITOL FROM -- IT 06:29 WAS AT HIS SUGGESTION THEY MOVED THE CAPITOL FROM PHILADELPHIA TO 06:35 WASHINGTON. ACROSS THE RIVER FROM HIS HOME 06:39 FOR HIS CONVENIENCE. AND HE WASNEVER ASKED TO 06:43 DIVEST. IT IS NOT REQUIRED. 06:47 IT'S A STORM IN A TEA CUP. >> I LIKE THAT TERM. 06:51 >> YES. AND THE CORPORATE VIEWPOINT, YOU 06:55 KNOW, THE EX-OIL EXECUTIVE TO BE SECRETARY OF STATE AND SO ON. 07:04 PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IN THE UNITED STATES IT WAS CORPORATE 07:06 FROM BEGINNING. CAPITALISM. 07:09 AND THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON HE U.S. 07:13 IT'S A DESCRIPTION. IT'S A CAPITALIST ENTITY. 07:18 THE U.S. HAS NEVER BEEN AN EMPIRE IN THE OLD IMPERIAL 07:24 SENSE. THE U.S. IS BEST SEEN AS LIKE 07:29 VENICE. IT IS A TRADING EMPIRE. 07:32 AS LONG AS THEY FEED US YOU KNOW -- I THINK IT WAS THOROUGH 07:39 SAYS, THE GREAT GAPING MOUTH, AS LONG AS IT'S FED. 07:44 THE SYSTEM IS WORKING JUST FINE. IT'S A MER -- MERCANTILE 08:02 SYSTEM. IT'S NEVER GOOD WHEN A COUNTRY 08:07 BECOMES MILITARISTIC. YOU MENTIONED THE -- THE -- 08:13 >> HACKSAW RIM. >> HACKSAW. 08:17 THE HACKSAW RIDGE FILM IS A WONDERFULLY INSPIRING STORY 08:24 [ INAUDIBLE ] DESMOND WHO ESTABLISHED HIMSLF IN WORLD WAR 08:28 II, IT WAS OKINAWA, WASN'T IT? >> THAT'S RIGHT. 08:32 >> 75 PEOPLE, I THINK, UNDER HEAVY FIRE, AND HE BROUGHT THEM 08:37 OUT AND SURVIED. AMAZING. 08:39 >> SHIRLEY WAS IN THAT -- >> RIGHT. 08:42 THOSE THINGS IN A CIVIL SENSE, I THINK AMERICA CAN BE PROUD OF. 08:48 IT WAS BRAVERY UNG -- UNDERFIRE. BUT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, WITH 08:58 A NON-CONSCRIPTED BUT A VOLUNTEER MERCENARY ARMY, MUCH 09:04 OF OUR SOCIETY IS RESPONDING TO THE CALL OF MILITARISM. 09:08 AND THAT'S WHAT STARTED THE WARS IN EUROPE. 09:11 SO IT DOESN'T COME TO A GOOD END. 09:14 >> IT DOESN'T. HE WAS A CON SHEEENNOUS 09:23 OBJECTOR. BUT WHAT ABOUT -- THE CASE WITH 09:27 KIM DAVIS WHEN SHE DECIDED TO OBJECT --. 09:30 >>> IN ANY CLERK IN KENTUCKY, RIGHT? 09:33 >> YES, IN ROWAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY. 09:36 AND I WOULD SAY HER CONSCIOUS -- >> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID. 09:40 IT WAS A CONSCIOUS ISSUE, AND WE CAN'T GET INTO HER MIND. 09:44 SO WE HAVE TO GRANT HER THE RIGHT TO HAVE A CONSCIOUS 09:48 DECISION. BUT NOBODY FORCED HER -- WAS 09:50 FORCING HER TO DO WHAT SHE DID. AND SHE WAS IN AN OFFICE WHERE 09:54 SHE HAD RUN FOR ELECTION. SHE COULD HAE -- AS JUDGES DO, 10:00 SHE COULD HAVE EXEMPTED HERSELF FROM THE SITUATION. 10:08 SHE REFUSED AND SHE REFUSED TO LET HER SUBORDINATES SIGN THE 10:22 LICENSES. THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T SIT WELL 10:25 ON A RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MODEL IN MY VIEW. 10:29 BUT FOR ALL I KNOW, HER CONSCIOUS WAS PURE AND SHE WAS 10:33 ACTING AS SHE FELT COMPELLED. BUT THE MODEL OF BEHAVIOR 10:39 DOESN'T PASS MUSTER. >> WHAT ABOUT CHRISTIANS THAT 10:42 SAY THEY FEEL THEIR RIGHTS ARE BEING THREATENED BY THE 10:47 GOVERNMENT -- >> THE GOVERNMENT THREATENS 10:50 PEOPLE'S RIGHTS REGULARLY. ANY COUNTRY DOES. 10:53 THAT'S WHY WE HAVE COURTS. AND THE CONSTITUTION DOESN'T 10:58 MEAN THAT DAY IN AND DAY OUT IT IS HUGHED TO EXACTLY. 11:03 IT IS CONSTANTLY BEING QUESTIONED IN COURT. 11:08 AND THE HIGH COURT JUSTICES MAKE A DETERMINE, IS THIS 11:13 CONSTITUTIONAL OR NOT? AND MANY CHRISTIANS FRUSTRATED 11:17 SAY, AT THE RISE OF HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS, SAY THESE JUDGES ARE 11:23 LEGISLATING FROM THE BENCH. THEY DIDN'T LEGISLATE FROM THE 11:26 BENCH TO START WITH, BECAUSE THEY DON'T COME UP WITH ISSUES 11:31 OUT OF THIN AIR. BUT I HEARD THE LATE JUSTICE 11:36 SCALIA SAY THIS, YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT WE DO, THERE IS REDRESS, 11:42 THE LEGISLATURE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 11:44 >> AND IF THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF IS OFFENSIVE, THERE IS A 11:48 MEASURE. IT LAYS OUT A CLEAR TRACK WHICH 11:51 HAS BEEN FOLLOWED MANY TIMES. THE AMENDMENTS GIVING VOTING 11:56 RIGHTS TO WOMEN. THE -- I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A 11:59 FEW OF THEM. THE PROHIBITION MEASURE, AND 12:03 REVERSAL OF PROHIBITION. THEY WERE ALL IN THAT PROCESS. 12:07 >> SO IF WE DISAGREE -- >> WE'RE NOT RULED BY THE COURT. 12:10 >> EXACTLY. >> THEY HAVE MADE SOME HORRIBLE 12:17 DECISIONS. THE DREDD SCOTT DECISION WAS ONE 12:23 OF THE FORCE. THE SMITH DECISION THAT 12:27 PENALIZED RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES FOR NATIVE AMERICANS. 12:34 THAT REALLY IGNORED THE RELIGIOUS RIGHTS. 12:37 WE MIGHT NOT BE SYMPATHETIC TO THAT VIEW, BUT THERE WERE LARGER 12:42 RAMIFICATIONS THAT BASICALLY HELD IF IT WAS THE LAW OF 12:46 GENERAL APPLICABILITY, EVEN IF IT IS YOUR RELIGIOUS FAITH. 12:53 YOU WOULD BE RESTRICTED. >> SO SHOULD WE BE SUPPORTIVE OF 12:58 THINGS?-HOW DO WE -- -p>> SUPPORTIVE OF THE SYSTEM -- >> OKAY. 13:03 BUT HOW DO WE -- >> WE'RE ALLOWED TO COMPLAIN. 13:08 >> BUT HOW DO WE ADDRESS ISSUES THAT WE DIFFER ON AS CITIZENS? 13:13 WHAT SHOULD WE DO? >> WELL, YOU AND I KNOW THIS -- 13:17 >> I'M BAITING YOU. >> IT'S AMAZINGLY EASY TO 13:21 CONTACT YOUR REPRESENTATIVE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 13:23 >> IF YOU ARE WILLING TO GET AIRFARE, YOU CAN GO TO 13:32 WASHINGTON AND WALK IN ON YOUR SENATORS OR CONGRESSMAN'S 13:38 OFFICE, HE MAY NOT TALK TO YOU, BUT LIKELY A STAFFER WILL. 13:43 AND LIKELY THEY'LL COME OUT AND SHAKE YOUR HAND. 13:47 BUT WE HAVE BEEN SURPRISED ON MAJOR ISSUES THAT OUR CHURCH HAS 13:51 BEEN INVOLVED WITH, THE FEEDBACK WE HAVE GOTTEN FROM SOME 13:55 OFFICES. ONE THAT WE WERE VERY PROACTIVE 13:58 ON, THEY MADE THE COMMENT TO US, THAT THEY HAD BEEN UNDATED WITH 14:04 REQUESTS TO ACT ON THIS LEGISLATION. 14:06 WE INVESTIGATED IT. IT WAS LIKE A DOZEN LETTERS THEY 14:12 SAY. >> THAT'S HARDLY INUNDATED. 14:15 >> IF I GET FOUR OR FIVE LETTERS ATTACKING ME AS AN EDITOR, I 14:23 WRITE IT LARGER. BUT A FEW SINGLE PEOPLE 14:28 CONTACTING THEIR LEGISLATURE DIRECTLY, CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE,-AND CAN BE HEARD. 14:33 IT'S AMAZING, EVEN POST 9/11 IN WASHINGTON, THE SENOR TOAL AND 14:39 CONSTRUCTIONAL OFFICERS ONCE YOU GO THROUGH THE METAL DETECTOR, 14:44 YOU CAN WANDER AROUND AND PASS THESE PEOPLE IN THE HALLWAY, AND 14:48 SAY HELLO, AND THEY WILL TALK TO YOU. 14:50 >> I HAD THAT PRIVILEGE WHEN I WENT TO WASHINGTON, D.C.-HAVE A SEAT. 14:56 I'LL BE RIGHT BACK. >> IT'S A GOOD THING. 14:58 >> VERY GOOD THING. >> THERE MIGHT BE A VERY SMALL 15:03 RISK, BUT THEY DO HAVE SECURITY AT THE DOOR. 15:05 BUT WE'RE STILL AT A POINT WHERE WE'RE RELATIVELY OPEN TO THE 15:11 FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY. ABRAHAM LINCOLN COMPLAINED THAT 15:18 CITIZENS WERE ALWAYS INTERRUPTING HIM AT DINNER. 15:23 [ LAUGHTER ] >> BUT PEOPLE CAN MAKE THEIR 15:25 VOICE HEARD RELATIVELY EASY, AND I OFTEN TELL OUR OWN CHURCH 15:29 MEMBERS THAT THEY CAN WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR, 15:33 THERE'S -- OF COURSE, I DONE DO IT, IT'S NOT MY THING, BUT EVEN 15:38 FACEBOOK AND TWITTER, YOU CAN INCREASE YOUR INFLUENCE WAY 15:47 BEYOND YOUR -- >> AND QUOTATION -- 15:50 >> AND THERE IS A LOT OF CHEAP TALK ON HOW THIS COUNTRY BECAME 15:57 TO BE, THAT THIS IS A DEMOCRACY. IT'S A REPRESENTATIVE 16:02 GOVERNMENT. IT MAKES IT IN SOME WAYS MORE 16:06 LIKELY THAT THE PEOPLE WITH THE REAL INTEREST CAN BE 16:10 REGARDED -- YOUR REPRESENTATIVE -- EVEN USE THAT 16:13 TERM -- THEY STAND IN FOR A WHOLE CONSTITUENCY, AND HE 16:21 SENSES THE GOOD OF THE AREA. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO GET A 16:25 HEARING, I THINK. NOW THERE'S NO QUESTION, AS THE 16:29 IN-COMING PRESIDENT AS SAID, AS MANY OTHERS, THE LOB BEEISTS AND 16:34 ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE AN UNDUE INFLUENCE. 16:39 THAT IS THE BLOW BACK FROM THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM. 16:44 BUT I HAVE BEEN WITH GROUPS MANY TIMES, WHERE WE HAVE MEETINGS, 16:51 AND WE'LL GO TO A CONGRESSMAN'S OFFICE, AND THEY WANT TO HEAR 16:56 FROM THEM. >> THAT'S RIGH. 16:58 AND FOR THE MOST PART, PEOPLE ARE NOT SPEAKING, SO THAT'S WHY 17:03 THEY FEEL MISUNDERSTOOD. >> YES. 17:04 >> ONE OF THE BIGGEST LAND MARKS I FEEL WAS INFLUENCE WALL SHALL, 17:11 WAS THAT AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE FELT THEY WERE HEARD FOR 17:16 THE FIRST TIME. SOME SAID IN PRIOR ELECTIONS WE 17:21 FELT OUR VOICES WERE NOT HEARD. AND IN MANY CASES IF PEOPLE 17:26 DON'T FEEL THEY ARE BEING HEARD, THEN THEY ARE GOING TO FIND 17:29 OTHER MEANS TO BE HEARD -- >> LIVING IN WASHINGTON, I HEARD 17:33 THE TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT DOING NOTHING, AND IT CAME FROM 17:36 MANY SOURCES, BUT THE NET EFFECT FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON WAS THEY 17:41 WERE ALL A BUNCH OF BUMS, KICK THEM ALL OUT. 17:45 I THINK ANYBODY THAT RAN ON THAT PLATFORM WOULD LIKELY WIN. 17:52 IT SHOULD BE A -- GIVE THEM MARCHING ORDERS TO THE NEW 17:57 ADMINISTRATION TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THE CONSTITUENCY, IT WAS NOT 18:06 INSULTS OR WHATEVER -- IT WAS THIS SEA CHANGE OF PEOPLE WHO 18:13 WERE FED UP WITH NON-RESPONSIVE AND WHAT THEY THOUGHT WERE DEL 18:23 TAUNT POLITICIANS. >> YOU DID AN EDITORIAL -- 18:28 >> I CALLED IT THE DeLOREAN [ INAUDIBLE ]. 18:34 REMEMBER BACK TO THE FUTURE. [ LAUGHTER ] 18:37 >> YES. >> THIS IS A PIVOTAL YEAR IN 18:44 RELIGION. >> YES, IT'S A MOMENT OF 18:47 REVELATION OF PROCESSES THAT ARE IN PLAY, AND I -- I WISH BOTH 18:53 THEN COMING PRESIDENT, AND THE VICE PRESIDENT AND ALL OF THE 19:01 APPOINTEES VERY WELL. AND I THINK LIKE ALWAYS THERE IS 19:04 A MIXED BAG OF APPOINTEES, SOME I THINK SPOT ON, OTHERS, BUT 19:10 WE'LL SEE. BUT I LOOK AT THE WHOLE FIELD, 19:18 THE NEW VICE PRESIDENT APPEARS TO BE AN EXEMPLARY KIND AND 19:29 GENTLE PERSON. WHAT TROUBLES ME, AND WE RAN AN 19:33 ARTICLE ABOUT GOVERNOR PENCE. THERE WAS A HUGE SCANDAL IN 19:38 INDIANA ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THAT WAS THE LAST SAGA OF 19:44 THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT. 19:48 A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE. STARTED AT THE FEDERAL 19:51 LAW -- TWO-PLUS DECADES AGO IT WAS PASSED. 19:55 BUT THE SUPREME COURT SAID IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, NOT 19:59 BECAUSE OF ITS IMPORT, BUT IT WAS NOT APPLICABLE TO EVERYONE 20:08 THROUGH FEDERAL EMPLOYEES. SO STATE BY STATE, PEOPLE HAVE 20:12 BEEN TRYING TO -- KICK START STATE -- REFORM LAWS, WHICH ONCE 20:17 ALL OF THE STATES ARE LINED UP, IT AMOUNTS TO THE SAME THING, 20:23 WHICH IS A FEDERAL LAW. AND INDIANA WAS THE 29TH 20:30 STRAIGHT. IT SPELLED IT OUT IN A 20:35 CONTEMPORARY WAY. BUT AS IT CAME CLOSE TO INDIANA 20:39 AND THE RIVALRY BETWEEN RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND GAY RIGHTS, 20:43 HE DID A NUMBER OF CONSERVATIVE RELIGIOUS ACTIVISTS, STARTED 20:49 INSERTING RIDERS WHICH IS A CLASSIC IN WASHINGTON, YOU KNOW, 20:53 A BILL CAN HAVE STRANGE THINGS ADDED TO IT. 20:56 AND THEY ADDED TO THESE RELIGIOUS BILLING, PROVISIONS 21:01 THAT WOULD ALLOW CHRISTIANS OR INDEED ANYBODY RUNNING A 21:06 BUSINESS TO EXCLUDE PEOPLE -- IF YOU DON'T LIKE A GAY COUPLE OF 21:12 WHATEVER, I'M NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU. 21:15 THAT SOUNDS GOOD FROM A MORALISTIC, SIMPLISTIC POINT OF 21:19 VIEW OF A CHRISTIAN. BUT EVEN FROM A CHRISTIAN 21:26 PERSPECTIVE WHY SHOULD YOU PICK UPON THAT PERSON? 21:29 DOUBTLESS OTHER WIFE BEATERS. DRUG PUSHERS, AND ALLOF THE 21:34 REST COMING IN. YOU DON'T KNOW. 21:36 YOU CAN'T RUN AN FBI CHECK ON EVERYONE. 21:39 YOU ARE THERE TO SEVE THE PUBLIC, AND AS A CHRISTIAN YOU 21:43 ARE TO RELATE TO ALL PEOPLE. THE EARLY CHRISTIANS OF THE 21:47 ROMAN EMPIRE THEY WERE DEALING WITH THE MOST CORRUPT SOCIETY. 21:54 BUT THEY DIDN'T SAY I WON'T DEAL WITH YOU. 21:56 THEY WITNESSED TO THEM. BUT THIS LAW WAS DESIGNED TO 22:02 EXCLUDE VERY BELLIGERENTLY THOSE THAT MORALLY DIFFERED. 22:09 AND IT DIDN'T GET BUY IN INDIANA. 22:11 THE GOVERNOR SIGNED IT, BECAUSE HE WAS PART OF THE INITIATIVE. 22:17 BUT THEN THE NATIONAL FUROR ERUPTED, AND HE BACKED UP. 22:25 AND IT'S VERY UNLIKELY ANY TIME SOON THE STATES BEYOND THE 20 22:31 WILL GET THE LAW. >> SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY LET'S GO 22:34 BACK TO THE FOUNDING FATHERS, OR THE RELIGION OF OUR FOUNDING 22:40 FATHERS. THERE WAS SUCH FEAR OF WHAT 22:42 HAPPENED IN EUROPE WITH THE POWER OF THE CHURCH THAT DAY, 22:47 THAT FOUNDING FATHERS ESTABLISHED SOMETHING SIMILAR, 22:53 LIMITING PEOPLE -- >> YEAH, BEFORE THE AMERICAN 22:57 REPUBLIC. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 22:58 >> THERE ARE SOME HORRIBLE CASES. 23:01 RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION WAS THE NORM IN SOME OF THE COLLIES. 23:09 WAS IT THE MASSACHUSETTS BAY COLONY -- THEY HANGED QUAKERS IN 23:17 NEW ENGLAND. >> RIGHT. 23:19 >> AND THEY JUST DIFFERED FROM THE SCRIPT. 23:23 THE COUPLE CAME BACK AND THEY STRUNG THEM UP. 23:25 IT WAS AMAZING. >> BUT WHERE I'M HEADED WIH 23:29 THIS IS IF YOU FOLLOW THAT TRAIN OF THOUGHT THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO 23:35 BELIEVE IN A CERTAIN SE OF PREESTABLISHED BELIEFS IN ORDER 23:39 TO BE IN OFFICE, PEOPLE BEGAN TO PRESCRIBE TO THESE BELIEFS. 23:50 >> THAT'S THE CATCH. NOW YOU ARE BRINGING UP THE 23:53 CONSTITUTION AGAIN. MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW 23:55 ABOUT IT. THERE'S ONLY -- HALF OF THE 23:58 FIRST AMENDMENT, AND ONE ORE CLAUSE, IT'S CALLED THE -- I 24:02 WILL NOT CHARACTERIZE IT, BUT IT SAYS THIS, NO RELIGIOUS TESTS 24:07 FOR PUBLIC OFFICE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 24:10 >> THAT DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE -- WHEN YOU GO TO THE 24:13 VOTING, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SAY FOR YOURSELF, I DON'T CARE FOR 24:18 THAT PERSON, THAT'S THEIR RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINT. 24:21 I WOULD RATHER VOTE FOR THIS PERSON. 24:26 THAT'S FINE. AND THESE CONTINUES CHARGES THAT 24:32 WE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO WAS A SECRET -- SOMETHING OR OTHER. 24:36 NO EVIDENCE OF IT, BUT EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE, IT WOULDN'T D 24:47 DISQUALIFY ANYONE FROM BEING PRESIDENT. 24:50 ANY GOOD RELIGION WILL -- WILL -- IN MANY WAYS 24:55 AFFECT THAT PERSON'S GENERAL BEHAVIOR. 24:58 SO IT'S NOT DISTANCES FROM THEM. BUT WE DO WANT SOMEONE -- AS I 25:04 CITED PRESIDENT KENNEDY BEFORE -- WE WANT SOMETHING THAT 25:08 UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STATE CRAFT AND 25:11 RELIGION. AND THEY HAVE TO KEEP THEIR HAND 25:13 OUT OF THE POWER TILL WHEN THEY ARE DEALING WITH RELIGION. 25:18 YOU CANNOT REQUIRE PEOPLE TO ADHERE TO A CERTAIN FAITH VIEW 25:23 POINT. >> THERE HAS BEEN SOME FEAR IN 25:25 AMERICA. WE HAVE SO MUCH CRIME. 25:27 IN SOME CITIES CRIME IS JUST OFF OF THE CHAIN. 25:30 SOME CRIMES SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO BE REIGNED IN BY THE LOCAL 25:40 POLICE, AND IN SOME CASES THEY SAID WE SHOULD START USING DRONE 25:46 STRIKES. IT IS AMAZING THAT THAT IS EVEN 25:49 BEING SUGGESTED. >> TO ME IT'S LOGICAL, BUT IT 25:52 HAS NOT BEEN SAID PUBLICLY FOR A LONG TIME, BUT KILLING 25:58 PEOPLE -- TARGETED KILLINGS OF PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES AND PLACES 26:02 THAT WE'RE NOT AT WAR WITH, IS EXTRA LEGAL IN A WAR SENSE. 26:15 WE HAVE A COURT SYSTEM. THE CONSTITUTION GIVES YOU THE 26:18 PROCESS OF LAW. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A TRIAL BY 26:22 YOUR PEERS. THAT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION. 26:27 >> >> RIGHT. 26:29 >> SO ALL OF US SHOULD REACT TO THAT SUGGESTION. 26:33 MAYBE IN CERTAIN CASES, WHERE THERE'S A CLEAR AND PRESENT 26:38 DANGER TO A POPULATION, AND THERE IS A MURDER RUNNING 26:42 AROUND, YES. BUT IT'S A BREAK IN THE PROTOCOL 26:51 AND IT WILL END BADLY. THEY WHO GIVE AWAY ESSENTIAL 26:58 LIBERTIES FOR PROTECTION DESERVE -- LET ME SEE -- DESERVE 27:03 NEITHER LIBERTY NOR PROTECTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 27:07 OR -- OR -- THERE'S BEEN MANY TIMES THAT PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN 27:11 AWAY RIGHTS TO COUNTER A GREATER THREAT, BUT CLEARLY WHEN YOU 27:15 LOOK AT A BALANCING ACT, PERHAPS BY GIVING -- WE WERE FIGHTING 27:20 COMMUNISM, WHICH DIDN'T ACCEPT THE RIGHTS OF FREE PEOPLE, AND 27:23 IT WAS RATHER CONTROLLING, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A RELIGION OF THE 27:28 PROGRESS OF MAN. BUT IN FIGHTING THEM, WE HAVE TO 27:32 BECOME VIOLENT, IF WE HAVE TO DENY, AGAIN, THEIR RIGHTS, YOU 27:37 KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU FIGHTING FOR IF YOU HAVE BECOME LIKE THEN? 27:46 YOU KNOW, WE'RE FIGHTING AGAINST SOME PRETTY BAD CHARACTERS. 27:49 NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT THAT WAS THE PROBLEM. 27:52 JUST RANDOM ARRESTS. BUT HERE INHUMAN DISGRACE IS 27:59 VISITED UPON PEOPLE, SO WHERE IS THE MORAL HIGH GROUND? 28:02 WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. WE LIVE IN A VERY IMPERFECT 28:07 WORLD, WHERE GOD'S SPIRIT AND PRINCIPLES ARE NOT UNIVERSALLY 28:13 APPLIES, BUT THE U.S. SETS UP A CONTRADICTION THAT CAN BE VERY -DANGEROUS. 28:19 THE ASSUMPTION THAT WHAT WE DO IS MORAL AND RIGHT 28:23 AUTOMATICALLY. AND WHEN WE CLEARLY DO SOMETHING 28:26 LESS, THEN YOU HAVE AN INTERNAL CONFLICT. 28:31 DO YOU FESS UP OR MAINTAIN THAT THIS IS A RIGHTEOUS ACT? 28:38 >> THAT'S TRUE. >> AND REMEMBER WHEN A PRESIDENT 28:41 TRIES TO APOLOGIZE, OR THEY THINK HE IS, OR SOMEONE THINKS 28:45 HE SHOULD, THERE IS THE STATEMENT, I WILL NEVER 28:49 APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT AMERICA DOES. IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE WHAT 28:53 ITS FOUNDING CHARTER SAID, AND ITS PRODUCT OF A CROSS-SECTION 28:57 OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE WONDERFUL ASPIRATIONS. 29:01 WHEN ROME IS DONE, IF YOU DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE IT, YOU NOT DON'T 29:13 ONLY DENY YOURSELF, BUT IT IS PART OF A DECLINE OF MORALITY. 29:20 >> SO YOU SHOULD ADMIT AND THEN READJUST -- 29:23 >> I THINK SO. IT'S NOT A SIGN OF WEAKNESS TO 29:27 APOLOGIZE. >> NO, IT ISN'T. 29:31 ACKNOWLEDGMENT -- >> [ INAUDIBLE ] SURVEIL ABOUT 29:35 IT, BUT WE HAVE DONE IT IN A FEW CASES. 29:38 I THINK I ALLUDED TO IT BEFORE, THE HIGH COURTS ACKNOWLEDGED THE 29:45 INTERNMENT OF THE JAPANESE WAS WRONG. 29:48 >> THAT'S RIGHT. WASN'T IT ALSO FROM A 29:51 COMPENSATING PARAMETER, THAT THEY DECIDE LET'S GO AHEAD AND 29:55 RESTORE IN A FINANCIAL WAY -- >> I REMEMBER THERE WAS 29:58 COMPENSATION. YOU CAN'T SET THINGS RIGHT. 30:02 THOSE PEOPLE WERE TREATED INAPPROPRIATELY FOR HUMANS IN 30:05 GENERAL, AND CITIZENS. IT WAS JUST TAKEN AWAY FROM 30:09 THEM. AND WHAT IS SELDOM NOTED, WHEN 30:13 THEY LEFT THEIR PROPERTY, THEY REVERTED QUICKLY TO THE 30:18 GOVERNMENTAL BODY, BECAUSE YOU DON'T PAY YOUR RIGHTS, QUICKLY 30:22 IT'S GONE. AND WORSE, MANY PEOPLE JUST 30:25 MOVED IN AND TOOK POSSESSION. AND AFTER THE WAR THEY HAD GREAT 30:30 TROUBLE, PROVING TITLE TO THEIR PROPERTY. 30:32 SO IT WAS A GREAT SOCIAL WRONG. WHICH, WE KNOW WHAT CAUSED IT, 30:37 IT WAS PANIC. >> UH-HUH. 30:39 >> THE SENSE OF EMINENT ATTACK FROM JAPAN. 30:43 IT WAS NEVER A REALLY POSSIBILITY. 30:45 BUT PANIC SET IN, AND PEOPLE WHO ARE PANICKED DO HORRIBLE THINGS. 30:50 BUT IT NEEDS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED. >> YOU THIS PHRASE NEXT UNTIL 30:57 PROVEN GUILTY. >> IT'S PRECISELY AT THE MOMENTS 31:00 OF GREATEST FEAR THAT WE NEED TO CLING STRONGLY TO PRINCIPALS, 31:09 SECULAR, CONSTITUTIONAL, AND OF COURSE TO HIGHER MORALITY. 31:13 >> SO TERRORISM IN AMERICA -- WE JUST -- I THINK SINCE 2001, HAVE 31:22 EXPERIENCED SOMETHING IN AMERICA THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN 31:26 ESCALATED -- >> THEY ARE ALL BEING 31:29 MANIPULATED -- >> YEAH -- 31:30 >> THERE IS NO QUESTION WE HAVE BEEN M-- MANIPULATED GREATLY. 31:42 BUT FEAR IS BEING USED TO HERD PEOPLE INTO CERTAIN VIEWPOINTS. 31:49 I LIVE IN WASHINGTON, I KNOW THE SHOCK. 31:51 I HAD TO DRIVE TO WORK NOT JUST WITH THE SMOKE OF THE PENTAGON, 31:55 BUT FOLLOWING THAT WE HAD THE WASHINGTON SHOOTERS -- I CAN'T 31:59 REMEMBER WHAT THEY CALLED THEM -- ALMOST EVERY DAY, I 32:02 WOULD SEE THE HELICOPTERS CIRCLING AROUND AS I CAME TO 32:07 WORK, SEASON ELSE HAD BEEN KILLED. 32:08 AND IT WAS AN UNSCENE SHOT. YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WAS 32:12 COMING FROM. I KNOW IT WAS FEAR. 32:14 BUT WE HAVE TO FIGHT AGAINST IT. BECAUSE WE'RE BEING HURDED BY 32:27 THIS FEAR PRINCIPLE. THINK ABOUT 9/11, IT WAS 32:33 SHOCKING VISIBLY. ENGLAND, WAS LONDON EVER AT A 32:40 THREAT OF FALLING? NEVER. 32:42 SO IT IS ONLY A HUGE THREAT -- A THREAT OF DISILLUSION IF WE 32:48 ALLOW IT TO BE. AND I'M AFRAID WE ARE GOING TO 32:52 LIVE UNTIL THE END OF TIME WITH A TERRORIST THREAT. 32:55 THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE. BUT YOU MENTIONED SHOOTINGS AND 32:59 CRIME IN THE CITY, THAT'S WAY ABOVE ANY REAL WORLD THREAT OF 33:05 TERRORISM. >> THAT'S TRUE. 33:06 >> THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT DIE IN RANDOM SHOOTINGS, AND 33:11 EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT THE POLICE NOW, BUT IN THE U.S. IN GENERAL, 33:16 THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOT BY THEIR OWN GUN, PHENOMENAL. 33:20 AND THE GANG VIOLENCE, THAT'S A SOCIAL SICKNESS THAT SOCIETY CAN 33:24 DO SOMETHING ABOUT, WHEREAS TERRORISM, YOU CAN'T STOP IT. 33:29 WE'RE VULNERABLE AT EVERY POINT. >> SO DOES -- THIS IS A WORD 33:33 THAT MANY LISTENING MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HEARD OF, BUT I CAN USE 33:44 THAT TO GET YOU ON MY SIDE -- >> OH, WE'RE CLEARLY A PART OF 33:50 THAT. >> OKAY. 33:52 >> I REMEMBER THE VICE PRESIDENT AROUND THE TIME OF 9/11, HE MADE 33:57 A COMMENT THAT WE DIDN'T LET ANY OPPORTUNITY PASS BY OUR NEWS. 34:03 NOT THE LEAST OF WISH THE -- PATRIOT ACT. 34:06 >> BECAUSE WE HEARD A LOT -- >> THE PATRIOT ACT WAS RATHER 34:11 CONVENIENCE. IT PASSED SO QUICKLY. 34:14 IT CLEARLY WAS SITTING READY TO GO. 34:16 >> RIGHT. YOU COULDN'T HAVE IT PASS SO 34:20 QUICKLY -- >> IT WAS SAID BY -- SENATOR L 34:27 LAYHI SAID THAT. THIS IS A GRAB BAG THAT CERTAIN 34:31 PEOPLE HAVE WANTED FOR A LONG TIME, AND NOW IT'S HERE. 34:35 AND AFTER IT PASSED HE SAID IT'S CALLED THE PATRIOT ACT. 34:41 I VOTED AGAINST IT. WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME? 34:44 >> HUM. >> I READ AN ARTICLE AT THE TIME 34:49 IN A FRENCH MAGAZINE, AND THE SOCIAL SCIENTISTS SAID THE 34:54 EVENTS OF 9/11 HAD SO MUCH IMPACT, FIRST BECAUSE IT WAS 34:59 REAL, BUT THE DANGER WAS NOT SO MUCH THAT IT WAS REAL, IT WAS 35:03 FAR WORSE, IT WAS SYMBOLIC. WE SAW A TOWER COME DOWN, BUT 35:08 THIS WAS A SYMBOLIC COLLAPSE OF A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. 35:13 AND I DON'T THINK IT HAS BEEN REPLACED SINCE. 35:16 WE'RE ALL AJITTER. AND THAT'S THE ENVIRONMENT THAT 35:19 HAS BEEN USED IN MANY, MANY COUNTRIES. 35:23 AND IT'S A HUMAN CHARACTERISTIC. THAT'S AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE LAWS 35:29 AND RULES AND REGULATIONS AND SOCIAL NORMS ARE 35:34 SHORT-CIRCUITED, AND THE STRONG MAN COMES ALONG, AND EXTREME 35:38 MEASURED ARE SUGGESTED TO DEAL WITH A THREAT THAT MAY NOT BE AS 35:41 BAD AS PEOPLE IMAGINED. >> SOME PEOPLE HAVE ASKED WHAT 35:44 ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP TO MAINTAIN FREEDOM AND PEACE AND 35:47 GENERAL CALM -- >> ANYTHING EXCEPT VIF 35:54 VIGILANCE -- JUST MAINTAIN VIGILANCE. 35:56 YOU DON'T GIVE ANYTHING UP. >> YOU HAVE HEARD THE STATEMENT 35:59 OVER AND OVER, SHOULD THE CONSTITUTION BE AMENDED? 36:02 IF IT IS AMENDED, IT WILL BE BETTER FOR SOCIETY. 36:08 >> AMENDED IN WHAT WAY? >> THAT'S THE QUESTION -- 36:13 >> I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED. THERE IS A LEGITIMATE PROCESS. 36:20 PEOPLE HAVE OFTEN BEEN FEARFUL OF AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. 36:25 CONSTITUTION. BUT ONCE YOU SEE THINGS 36:27 DYNAMICALLY WORK OUT, THAT'S THE LEAST LIKELY WAY THAT A THREAT 36:32 WOULD COME. AMENDMENTS, RATHER -- YOU CAN DO 36:35 THEM QUICKLY, BUT THERE IS A FULL-BLOWN PROCESS. 36:39 THE WORST THING THAT I BELIEVE WILL HAPPEN, AND IT PROBABLY 36:44 WILL ACCOMPANY RELIGIOUS CONSTITUTION. 36:54 THINK ABOUT THE SOVIET UNION, THEY HAD A CONSTITUTION, BUT 36:59 THEY DIDN'T HAVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. 37:02 >> NO. >> AND I CAN SEE US BOWING DOWN 37:05 AND DELIVERING THE GREAT CONSTITUTION DELIVERED TO US BY 37:08 THE WISE MEN OF THE FOUNDING OF THE REPUBLIC, MEANWHILE, WHILE 37:15 THINGS GO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION. WE DO IT IN RELIGION. 37:18 THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. WHO IS AGAINST THEM? 37:22 EVEN ON THE ONE ISSUE THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS THINK IS 37:25 ONE OF THE LITMUS TESTS, THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT. 37:28 >> SABBATH. THAT'S RIGHT. 37:30 >> DOESN'T SEEM TO TROUBLE MANY OTHER CHRISTIANS, AND IT'S A NO 37:34 SECRET. IT HAS BEEN OPENLY SAID LATELY. 37:40 IT WAS JUST CUSTOM, PEOPLE FELT -- YOU KNOW. 37:44 >> IT WAS A SUGGESTION. >> I THINK IT'S LIKE THE OLD 37:48 TESTAMENT IT HAS THE TWO SONS OF ADAM AND EVE GIVING A SACRIFICE. 37:53 THEY WERE TOLD TO SACRIFICE A LAMB. 37:55 ONE OF THEM HAD A NICE GARDEN. I'LL GIVE YOU FRUIT. 37:59 >> SO THAT DEFINED THE TWO WORSHIPPERS -- 38:02 >> WE CAN TREAT THE CONSTITUTION THE SAME WAY. 38:05 >> SO LET'S LOOK AT THE CONSTITUTION OVER HERE, THE 10 38:09 COMMANDMENTS OVER HERE, AND SOME PEOPLE SAY THESE ARE THE 10 38:13 SUGGESTIONS -- >> RIGHT. 38:14 A LITTLE IRONY THERE, BUT THAT'S HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED -- 38:19 >> BUT MANY CHRISTIANS, REALLY HAVE NOT READ THE 10 38:24 COMMENDMENTS. >> YES, I KNOW. 38:26 WELL. >> SO WHEN YOU BRING IT UP. 38:29 THEY APPLY THESE. AND THEY SHOW LARGER IGNORANCE, 38:33 THEY COLLECT THEM TO THE CEREMONIAL LAWS -- BEING NAILED 38:41 TO THE CROSS. AND WHEN CHRISTIANS SAY THE 38:45 COMMANDMENTS HAVE BEEN DONE AWAY WITH, THESE SAME CHRISTIANS ARE 38:48 ASKING FOR ORDER IN SOCIETY. HOW CAN THAT BE? 38:51 >> THAT'S RIGHT. THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES, WHICH 38:55 HUMANS ARE VERY PRIMED TOO. BUT WE SHOULD POINT IT OUT, 38:59 YEAH. BUT THERE SHOULD BE A STRICT 39:01 SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, BUT SINCE HUMANS ARE INVOLVED IN 39:07 BOTH INSTITUTIONS. WE SEE THE SAME FOULABLETIES AND 39:13 BLIND SPOTS. AND EVEN AT THIS LATE DATE WITH 39:16 THREATS WITHIN AND WITHOUT, AND APPARENT COLLAPSE OF THE 39:20 SYSTEM -- I WOULDN'T USE THAT STRONG OF W-- WORD -- 39:27 >> AN EMOTION. >> THE U.S. REMAINS ARGUABLY A 39:33 LIGHT TO GUIDE MANY OTHER ASPIRING COUNTRIES HEADING 39:37 TOWARDS FREEDOM AND PROSPERITY AND SO ON, AND EVEN THOUGH WE'RE 39:43 ALL A LITTLE POORER IN THE U.S. THAN WE USED TO BE, IT'S 39:48 RELEVANT. WE'RE STILL BLESSED ON THE 39:52 AGGREGATE. MORE IMPORTANTLY COMPARED TO 39:54 OTHER AGES. WHAT HAS HAPPENED WAS THE U.S. 39:57 US WAS A BECAN FOR THE ASPIRATIONS OF OTHER COUNTRIES, 40:02 NOT JUST TO OUR STRUCTURE, BUT OUR WAY OF LIFE.-STILL THE U.S. HAS THE U.S. 40:09 AMBASSADOR FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. 40:12 AN OFFICE THAT IS LARGELY CEREMONIALLY. 40:17 BUT IT GIVES THE ABILITY TO ENCOURAGE OTHER COUNTRIES TO 40:21 ADOPT RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS. AND IT HAD WORKS. 40:31 SO STILL IT HAS BEEN SAID, THE U.S. IN MANY WAYS IS THE WORLD'S 40:35 BEST HOPE. >> I TRAVEL -- 40:37 >> AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT IF WE TAKE A DIVE, IT 40:43 WILL HAVE HUGE RAMIFICATIONS. >> A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE 40:49 BEEN ESTABLISHED AS A NORM FOR MANY, MANY DECADES IN AMERICA, 40:54 HAVE BECOME A PART OF THE LAST POLITICAL QUAGMIRE WE JUST CAME 41:02 THROUGH. FOR EXAMPLE, THE UNITED NATIONS. 41:05 WE LOOK AT ALL OF THE ALLIES WE HAVE AROUND THE WORLD, SHOULD WE 41:10 LOOK AT OURSELVES AS REMAINING UNIFIED ON COMMON GOALS? 41:14 OR HOW DOES THAT WORK -- >> I'M SORRY TO BE -- 41:17 >> NO, WE'RE GOOD. >> I WANT TO KEEP IT ON 41:20 RELIGIOUS LIBERTY. BUT IF YOU STUDY HISTORY, THE 41:25 U.S. HAS GONE THROUGH SEVERAL PERIODS OF ISOLATION. 41:27 THIS IS NOT THE FIRST. >> RIGHT. 41:30 >> RHETORIC DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN THAT WE ARE GOING TO ACT TOTALLY 41:34 ON IT. I'LL NAME HIM BECAUSE HE IS A 41:37 VERY PUBLIC FIGURE. 8 TO 12 YEARS AGO AMBASSADOR 41:43 BOULTON -- HE'S STILL AROUND -- WAS RANTING AND 41:46 RAILING, THE SAME LANGUAGE. THAT HE WAS MADE THE U.S. 41:51 REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE UNITED NATIONS. 41:53 THEY DIDN'T PULL OUT. WHAT THIS TELLS ME WAS THE U.S. 41:57 WHICH WAS THE BIRTHING AUTHORITY FOR THE U.N. WHICH SITS ON 42:02 MANHATTAN ISLAND IN NEW YORK. WE FUND OVERWHELMINGLY. 42:07 IN MANY WAYS THE U.S. IS A PROXY FOR U.S. POWER. 42:12 THE U.S. EVERY NOW AND AGAIN GETS FRUSTRATED WHEN IT DOESN'T 42:16 DO QUITE WHAT THE U.N. WANTS. I READ IT MORE AS A BIT 42:26 BOTHERED. BUT I DON'T SEE ANY LIKELIHOOD 42:28 OF THE U.N. BEING CUT LOSE. IT'S NOT PERFECT. 42:32 BUT IT HAS DONE A WONDERFUL THING. 42:35 THERE IS THAT STATEMENT ABOUT BEATING SWORDS INTO PLOW SHEERS. 42:42 THAT'S NOT A BAD ASPIRATION. AND THE U.S. HAS SET UP 42:46 DIALOGUE. WITHOUT THAT, WHAT ARE YOU GOING 42:48 TO HAVE IN A TRUCE WHERE THE GENERALS SORT OF CREEP TOWARDS 42:53 EACH OTHER AND TALK ABOUT IT? THAT'S NOT NEARLY AS GOOD. 42:59 THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT PROGRESSES OF THE MODERN ERA. 43:02 >> THERE NEEDS TO BE A BUFFER OR A CHALLENGE TO YOUR BELIEFS OR 43:07 ELSE YOUR BELIEFS LOSE VORACITY. >> RIGHT. 43:10 THE U.N. IS TOYING WITH DISASTER ON MANY FRONTS. 43:16 A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES, MOST OF LEM ISLAMIC HAS BROUGHT IN 43:24 RESOLUTIONS IN THE U.N. THAT THE U.S. THANKFULLY HAVEN'T 43:28 ACCEPTED, THAT WOULD MAKE IT A CRIME TO OF FEN SOMEONE ELSE'S 43:35 RELIGION. >> OKAY. 43:36 >> YOU HAVE GOT SOME QUESTIONS? >> WELL, LET'S SEE. 43:40 WE HAVE SOME -- ONE OF THE ONES -- OKAY. 43:43 LET ME READ IT. I LIVE ON THE CAMPUS OF AN SDA 43:48 SCHOOL THAT MOST OF THE STAFF LIVES ON. 43:51 WE HAD A NON-ADVENTIST PERSON HELPING TO TAKE CARE OF ONE OF 43:57 OUR ELLERLY STAFF MEMBERS. DURING ONE SABBATH THE LADY WAS 44:04 OUT WASHING HER CAR. HE TOLD HER SHE DIDN'T NEED TO 44:09 WASH HER CAR ON THAT DAY. SHE BECAME VERY UPSET BECAUSE OF 44:14 THE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE INFRINGING ON HER RELIGIOUS 44:18 RIGHTS. DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT? 44:22 >> THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT THAT NOT JUST YOU, BUT ANYONE WITHIN 44:26 YOUR GATES. >> EXACTLY. 44:29 [ LAUGHTER ] >> BUT AS A LEGAL MATTER -- 44:31 >> RIGHT. >> -- NO, WE CAN'T -- THIS IS 44:35 SORT OF A QUIRKY ONE, BUT THERE IS AN INSTITUTION -- SAY A 44:42 SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST HOSPITAL, WE ARE -- IT'S HARDER TO 44:51 IMPLEMENT -- WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE SHALL BE GOOD FOR THE 44:54 GANDER, AND RATHER THAN SELF CRITIQUE TOO MUCH, YES, I THINK 44:58 THEIR UNG UNDERLYING QUESTION IS VERY VALID. 45:05 AND AGAIN, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IS ONLY RIGHT IF IT WORKS FOR 45:13 EVERYBODY. THERE'S NO QUESTION OF A 45:16 SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST COMMITMENT TO THIS PRINCIPAL. 45:18 THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT A WHOLE COALITION OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND 45:23 THIS PRINCIPLE OF SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. 45:25 >> AND YOUR WITNESS HAS TO BE MORE OF A PROMINENT INFLUENCE 45:30 THAN WHAT YOU SAY A PERSON CAN OR CAN'T DO. 45:33 >> ABSOLUTELY. >> IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE 45:36 CONVICTED TO LIVE OUT YOUR CONVICTIONS -- PASTOR CA MURRAY 45:42 SAID THIS. WE HAVE A LOT OF CONVICTS, THEY 45:45 ARE CONVICTED, BUT THEY HAVEN'T LIVED OUT THEIR [ INAUDIBLE ] SO 45:50 THEY ARE CONVERTS. LIVING OUT THEIR CONVICTIONS 45:54 BRINGS A GREATER INFLUENCE. >> ABSOLUTELY. 45:56 BUT THAT'S NOT A LEGAL QUESTION. AS FAR AS I SAID BEFORE IN 46:01 RELATION TO A RELIGIOUS LEADER, OR KIM DAVIS FOR EXAMPLE, WE 46:06 CAN'T GET IN SOMEONE'S HEAD, AND KNOW IF THEY ARE HONEST, PURE, 46:10 SPIRITUAL, CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT, BUT WHEN THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE 46:15 CONVICTED AND COMPELLED TO A CERTAIN BEHAVIOR, AND CERTAIN 46:19 BELIEF SYSTEM, WE HAVE TO RESPECT IT. 46:21 >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT IS LOVING YOURS NEIGHBOR AS 46:25 YOURSELF. >> WE ALL WANT AN ANNOUNCEMENT 46:27 FOR OUR BELIEFS AND VIEWPOINT. THERE IS A LITTLE QUALIFIER, AND 46:32 I SHOULD MENTION IT, BECAUSE MAYBE SOMEONE THINKS IT -- I'M 46:37 SAYING REGARDLESS IF YOUR RELIGIOUS REQUIRES YOU TO DO 46:41 SOMETHING THAT IS OFFENSIVE DAY IN AND DAY OUT. 46:45 THERE ARE CIVIL LAWS, NOISE LAWS. 46:49 YOU CAN'T ABDUCT CHILDREN FROM LOCAL SCHOOLS. 46:54 PUBLIC SAFETY AND GENERALLY CIVIL LAWS -- NOT TO BE CONFUSED 46:59 WITH WHAT I SAID BEFORE ABOUT THE PAY OH TEE RESTRICTION. 47:09 RELIGION IS NOT GIVEN THE RIGHT TO CROSS OVER THAT. 47:14 BUT BY AND LARGE THAT IS NOT REALLY THE CASE WITH RELIGION. 47:20 THERE WAS THE SANTA RHEA CULL DOWN IN MIAMI THAT WERE GIVEN TO 47:26 CHOPPING OFF THE HEADS OF CHICKENS, THAT WAS OFFENSIVE TO 47:30 THE NEIGHBORS, BUT THERE WAS NO PUBLIC SAFETY. 47:33 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> AS I REMEMBER THEY INVOKED 47:36 SLAUGHTER HOUSE REGULATIONS AND -- BECAUSE THIS WAS A TRUE 47:43 RELIGIOUS PRACTICE. BUT THESE ARE ALMOST -- DO YOU 47:47 STILL BEAT YOUR WIFE TYPE OF QUESTIONS. 47:50 SOMEONE CAN THROW UP TO DODGE THE TRUE EVERY DAY EDITION OF 47:59 PEOPLE. >> THE RULE OF THUMB WAS A MAN 48:02 COULD NO FLOG HIS WIFE WITH ANYTHING THICKER THAN HIS THUMB. 48:07 BUT, THEN AGAIN, HER PUNISHMENT WAS BASED ON THE SIZE OF HER 48:12 HUSBAND'S THUMB. >> WE DON'T GET INTO THAT, BUT 48:15 THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT STILL ALLOW MISTREATMENT OF 48:22 WIVES. BUT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF 48:24 THE PERSON OF FAITH, IN THIS CASE A FAITH I DON'T SYMPATHIZE 48:29 WITH, I BELIEVE ANYONE CONVICTED NEEDS TO BE PREPARED TO TAKE THE 48:34 CONSEQUENCE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 48:35 >> IN THE U.S. BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH AN AMENABLE CONSTITUTION, 48:41 PEOPLE THINK IF THERE IS A RESTRICTION OR OBJECTIVE, THEY 48:45 JUST APPEAL THE LAW, OR WHATEVER, AND THEY WILL 48:50 AUTOMATICALLY BE GIVEN A PASS. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. 48:53 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> WE'RE JUST BLESSED TO BE 48:57 LIVING IN A SOCIETY THAT HAS MADE AN EFFORT THROUGH ITS LAWS, 49:01 AND ITS CONTINUING CIVILITY, TO ALLOW YOU WITHIN THOSE LAWS. 49:06 BUT THERE WILL BE CASES WHERE -- YOU KNOW, IT'S PROBABLY 49:09 NOT A GOOD BALANCE, BUT I'LL INVOKE THE STORY, YOU KNOW, OF 49:13 SALOMON AND THE BABY AND THE TWO MOTHERS, AND IT MAY SEEM THAT 49:19 YOU JUST CUT BETWEEN THE TWO -- I'M NOT SAYING -- 49:23 >> RIGHT. LITERAL -- 49:25 >> BUT THERE IS NOT ALWAYS AN EASY ANSWER. 49:28 >> HERE IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES. SOMEBODY MIGHT TALK ABOUT ON 49:32 MIXING OF CHURCH AND STATE. ONE OF THE DANGERS OF CHURCH, 49:37 SCHOOLS, ACCEPTING STATE FUNDING. 49:40 >> WE CAN TALK FOREVER ABOUT THAT. 49:42 BUT "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" ANNOUNCED THE POSITION HAS NEVER CHANGED 49:46 FROM THE TIME OF AT JONES ONE OF OUR PIONEERS. 49:50 IT IS NOT ADVISABLE. IT WILL CAUSE PROLEMS, 49:53 AND -- AND EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT PARTICULARLY IN OTHER 49:57 COUNTRIES. WE CAN SHOW TIME AND TIME AGAIN, 49:59 THE ONE THAT GIVES THE MONEY FEELS THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL, 50:02 AND AT SOME POINT WILL INTERJECT. 50:05 IT'S NOT A MORAL QUESTION, SO A -- A CHURCH, OR A CHURCH 50:09 INSTITUTION THAT TAKES THE MONEY, THEY HAVEN'T SINNED 50:12 AGAINST GOD, BUT THEY MAY HAVE SEWN THE SEEDS OF THEIR OWN 50:17 INSTITUTIONAL DESTRUCTION. AND THERE ARE MANY PENDING 50:25 EXAMPLES ABOUT HOW THIS IS ABOUT TO DIRECTLY HARM RELIGIOUS 50:32 INSTITUTIONS. SOME ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE 50:35 THEIR VIEWS. >> RIGHT. 50:36 >> CALIFORNIA RECENTLY PROPOSED LEGISLATION WHERE SCHOOLS WOULD 50:41 HAVE BEEN REQUIRED AMONG OTHER THINGS TO HAVE GAY STUDENT 50:44 HOUSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IS AN ADVENTIST COLLEGE PREPARED 50:48 TO DO TO THAT STEP? >> BUT BY ACCEPTING THE FUNDING, 50:54 YOU OPEN THAT DOOR -- >> RIGHT. 50:57 THE FUNDING IS THE KEY. YOU ARE SEEN AS TAKING PUBLIC 51:09 MONEY, WHICH MEANS THERE IS A PUBLIC EXPECTATION YOU WILL DO 51:14 WHAT THEY IN THEIR LARGER CORPORATE SENSE HAVE PASSED. 51:18 YOU ARE NOT EXEMPT. RELIGION HAVE BEEN GIVEN 51:23 EXEMPTIONS FOR MANY LAWS OF FAIRNESS BECAUSE OF THEIR 51:27 RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, BUT IF THAT UNFAIRNESS IS FUNDED BY THE 51:31 GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE, OF COURSE IT IS LOGICAL. 51:36 >> SO RELIGIOUS LIBERTY AS A MAGAZINE, THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF 51:44 "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" IS TO INFORM, TO INFLUENCE, AND TO GIVE 51:49 KNOWLEDGE TO THOSE WHO ARE IN POSITIONS TO MAKE A 51:53 DIFFERENCE -- >> ABSOLUTELY. 51:54 WE CAN'T FORCE ANYONE. IT'S NOT BY AND LARGE ABOUT 51:59 ADVENTISTS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. 52:00 >> WE WANT THEM TO BE WELL AWARE THIS IS COMING FROM OUR POINT OF 52:04 VIEW, BUT IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL, IT'S HISTORICAL, THE MODELS OF 52:10 HISTORY. IT'S -- THERE'S CHURCH HISTORY 52:12 AND CIVIL HISTORY, AND THEN THERE IS THE MATTER OF THEOLOGY. 52:16 BUT THE THEOLOGY IS NOT THE OVERALL PERSUASION. 52:19 >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> AND WE MENTION THAT FROM TIME 52:23 TO TIME. IN TOTAL IT'S A VERY PERSUASIVE 52:27 ARGUMENT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT TARGETED ANYONE. 52:29 WE'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF RESTRICTED OR ADVOCATING 52:33 RESTRICTION OF ANYBODY'S BELIEF SYSTEM. 52:36 >> THAT'S RIGHT. I WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS AND 52:39 LISTENERS, THAT "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" IS A MAGAZINE, WHERE 52:43 THIS IS THE TIME AND AGE WHERE PEOPLE NEED TO GET COPIES OF 52:46 THIS MAGAZINE INTO THEIR LOCAL CONGRESSMEN, IT CARRIES ARTICLES 52:52 SURPRISINGLY OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T NECESSARILY 52:58 AGAGREE -- >> FROM TIME TO TIME. 53:01 WE WANT A PUBLIC AIRING OF REAL ISSUES THAT ARE PLAYING. 53:05 >> AND TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THE DIFFERING VIEWS. 53:08 BUT I KNOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET THE INFORMATION TO FIND OUT HOW 53:15 TO GET THIS INTO THE HANDS OF YOUR LOCAL POLITICIANS. 53:18 HERE IS THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO DO THAT. 53:22 >> Announcer: IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS MINISTRY 53:26 WRITE TO "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" 12501 OLD COLUMBIA PIKE, SILVER 53:32 SPRING, MARYLAND, 20904. THAT'S "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" 12501 53:38 OLD COLUMBIA PIKE, SILVER SPRING, MARYLAND, 20904. 53:44 YOU CAN CALL 701-680-6690. YOU CAN ALSO VISIT THEM ON THE 53:54 WEB AT LIBERTYMAGAZINE.ORG. CONTACT THEM TODAY. 54:00 THEY WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. 54:01 ♪ 54:07 >> AS YOU KNOW, "LIBERTY" IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE TAKE FOR 54:11 GRANTED UNTIL IT IS NO LONGER AFORED. 54:13 SO THE PURPOSE OF THIS PROGRAM IS TO SAY TO YOU, AS AN AMERICAN 54:18 CITIZEN, AS EVEN AS A PESON LIVING IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES 54:22 AROUND THE WORLD, BE INFORMED, BE EDUCATED, SO THAT YOU CAN 54:27 LOOK FORWARD TO RECEIVING WHAT YOUR GOVERNMENT, YOUR LOCAL 54:32 CONGRESSMAN, YOU POLITICIANS ARE SUPPORTING, AS WELL AS THE 54:35 ENVIRONMENT YOU ARE LIVING IN. AND "LIBERTY MAGAZINE" WHICH YOU 54:39 HAVE DONE FOR 20 YEARS -- >> 19 54:41 >> >> GOING ON 20. 54:42 >> YEAH. YEAH. 54:43 >> YOU HAVE INFORMED YOURSELVES -- THESE ARE THE 54:45 KINDS OF PROGRAMS THAT SAYS TO ME THERE IS MORE HAPPENING THAN 54:49 MEETS THE EYE. >> WE HAVE ONLY SCRATCHED THE 54:53 SURFACE TONIGHT. BUT IT WAS AN ENJOYABLE TRIP. 54:56 AND I TRIED TO GIVE THE OVERVIEW OF THE STRUCTURE OF THE 55:00 ARGUMENT. >> THOSE LISTENING AND WATCHING 55:02 THE PROGRAM, THOSE DRIVING IN THEIR CAR -- MY WIFE WORKS FOR 55:08 RADIO, AND THOSE WATCHING, WHAT KIND OF CHALLENGE WOULD YOU GIVE 55:11 TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD? >> CHERISH THIS. 55:15 I'LL QUOTE A RELATIVELY DISGRACED POLITICIAN AT THE 55:19 MOMENT. HILLARY CLINTON SPOKE TO ONE OF 55:21 OUR GROUPS. SHE SAID SOMETHING VERY TELLING, 55:23 AND IT'S A TRUISM, BUT SHE IS THE ONE THAT SAID IT. 55:28 SHE SAID YOU CAN OFTEN TELL THE STATE OF GENERAL CIVIL LIBERTIES 55:32 BY THE STATE OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY. 55:35 IT'S IN THE MIX. SO IN REALITY, WE'RE HOPING TO 55:40 PROTECT THE ARRAY OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS IF YOU WOULD LIKE. 55:45 THEY ARE A PACKAGE. >> IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. 55:48 >> AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES. 55:50 NOT PRESUME THAT IT WILL CONTINUE. 55:53 BECAUSE A PRESUMPTION IS LIKELY TO BE A BIG MISTAKE. 55:57 >> THERE MAY BE A READING THAT SOMEBODY MAY NOT CONSIDER 56:00 SOMETHING TO PASS YOUR TIME. BUT IF YOU GO TO THE INTERNET AS 56:04 AN CERTAIN CITIZEN. YOU CAN DOWNLOAD A COPY OF THE 56:09 CONSTITUTION, AND BILL OF RIGHTS. 56:11 INFORM YOURSELF SO YOU CAN BE A PERSON WHO IS UNDERSTANDABLY 56:16 STEPS AHEAD OF THOSE WHO MIGHT BE FIGHTING AN ISSUE THAT IS A 56:20 JUST A PASSIONATE ISSUE. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING 56:24 YOU BACK AGAIN FOR ANOTHER PROGRAM -- 56:26 >> I'LL BE HERE WITH BELLS ON AS THEY SAY, AND "LIBERTY" IN HAND. 56:30 >> AS A NETWORK, WE'RE PRAYING FOR THE SUCCESS OF OUR 56:35 GOVERNMENT, OF OUR PRESIDENT-TO-BE TOMORROW. 56:38 HE IS GOING TO BE SWORN IN. AND WE WANT OUR NATION TO 56:45 SUCCEED. AND THE WORLD PREFERABLY IS A 56:50 PLACE WE CAN LIVE IN BETTER HARMONY THAN WE ARE RIGHT NOW. 56:56 BUT JESUS SAID STAND FAST THEREFORE IN THE LIBERTY WHERE 57:00 WITH CHRST HAS MADE US FREE. THAT'S OUR COMMITMENT. 57:03 WE PRAY THAT THAT LIBERTY WILL BE A BLESSING IN YOUR LIFE. 57:06 SO UNTIL WE SEE YOU AGAIN, MAY THE LORD CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU. 57:10 ♪ |
Revised 2017-01-20