Hello. My name is Dwayne Lemon.
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And I'm Lance Wilbur.
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And we want to welcome you
to a True Knowledge of Self
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where we get a
knowledge of ourselves
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from a biblical perspective.
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We want to welcome you all
and thank you for joining us.
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Today we are
going to be continuing
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from where we left off
in this incredible testimony
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as we were listening to
Brother Lance share with us
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how God was leading in his life
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and we see that he's gone
through several experiences
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and it was quite incredible
to see how he was ingrained
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and deeply into
the hip-hop culture,
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especially the
intellectual aspect,
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which is really different
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from a lot of what
other people look for.
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Most people think
just about the fun aspect,
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and I'm sure he did
have fun, is that right?
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Absolutely. Oh, yes.
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But nevertheless we also
know that there is another side
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that Lance was
talking about this
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when he was interviewing myself,
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but he is now going through
this in his own experience,
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where he was talking
about the intelligence
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in all of these things that also
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is a strong influential power
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coming from the
hip-hop and R&B culture.
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We saw that
Lance grew up in a home
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where dad was not around often
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and mother was there struggling,
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trying to do what
she could to rear him up
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and his little brother,
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and we also saw that television
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and the basic street lifestyle
was there pulling at him,
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grabbing at him
and just consistently
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trying to draw
him into their mold
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and we saw that he was starting
to be formed in that mold,
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little by
little, even to the point
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that he found himself
to being the reflector
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of other men's thoughts
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and presenting a lot
of philosophies and ideas,
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rejecting religion,
and the list goes on
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and we want to pick
right back up on that,
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Lance, and I want us to go ahead
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and continue
talking with our viewers
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and just getting an idea,
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here you are at this
stage, you're a teenager,
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you're a young man,
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and you're going
through these experiences
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where right now
religion is definitely a turnoff
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especially as it
related to Christianity.
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Yeah.
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But then also, you are finding
yourself more so with the,
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you know, Five-Percent Movement
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and just looking at
what's coming in through that,
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all the influences, the culture,
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the lifestyle, was
there anything else
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that was also a grab in
your mind in a positive way
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that was pulling you
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while you were also engrossed
in this hip-hop lifestyle.
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Oh, yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I was really
into the sports, like I said,
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I was always big, I
was a three-sport athlete,
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so even from a little kid,
I was too big for Pop Warner,
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but I played.
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There was other
football leagues,
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so I'm playing
football, I'm playing baseball,
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I'm playing basketball.
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And as I started to get
older, into my teenage years,
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I'm getter taller and, you know,
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slimming down
and growing taller.
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So I began to
gravitate towards basketball
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just because, you know,
it was just more appealing.
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Baseball became
increasingly boring
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and is not compatible with,
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you know, doing
what I was doing,
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living a lifestyle I was living,
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and then going and sitting
out you know playing outfield
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or first base for two
hours in 95-degree heat.
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So you know, I'm at
apex of my baseball career,
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I do tournaments in Canada,
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you know pitching and, you know,
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it was good but it
wasn't like basketball.
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Football was good
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but I didn't like to
destroy my body in practice
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and have these
people yelling at you
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and you play 12 games a season
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or what have you in high school.
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So I was
recruited in those regards
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for high school athletics
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where basketball
became my passion,
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basketball became what I did,
and I didn't really pick it up
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until, you know,
maybe 10 or 11 years old.
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But once I started picking it up
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and getting
serious with basketball,
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I quickly excelled too.
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I was playing in
varsity in my freshman year,
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in high school,
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and that obviously
continued to the point
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where as early as 10th grade,
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I'm getting
invitations, you know,
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letters to, hey we appreciate.
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Now, I hated school.
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I hated reading
and I hated school,
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so I did not
participate in class.
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I skipped
school, I skipped class.
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I was pretty much left
to myself to get myself up
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into school everyday.
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So school was
just a mess for me,
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but I would get letters from,
you know, D1 school saying,
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"Oh, we value
your B plus average,
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your grade point average,
and we can't wait to..."
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And all these enticing letters,
you know, Syracuse, and Miami,
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and Fordham, Rutgers,
Washington, and you know,
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several other local schools,
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and I was getting
those letters in 10th grade.
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When I moved to another city,
I started, the coach, you know,
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he was the...
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At that time I think he had
the record for winning as coach
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in high school basketball
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and he started
coming to me and say,
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"Hey, you know, we are thinking
about sending you to this camp.
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Don't worry about the payment,
you know we'll take care of it,
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oh, shoes, you know,
different little things,
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incentives to play,
you know, summer league,
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and I'm telling
you, I'm a poor student.
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I didn't go to school, rarely.
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I didn't do
homework, I didn't do,
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but they are giving
me all these incentives
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to do these things.
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So I enjoyed it, I pursued it,
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but at the same
time I did not appreciate
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the whole culture of athletics
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and kind of the clique mentality
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and everybody happened
to ingratiate themselves
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to the coach and kind of
be at the certain functions
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and I just, I didn't
want anything to do with that
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and I was completely against it.
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Now, I didn't get a chance
to share this in my testimony,
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but we're going to talk about
this in later episodes as well.
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There were two influences
that were working in my life
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when I was really
into the hip-hop culture.
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Obviously,
hip-hop was one of them,
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but the other
one was martial arts.
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I was really, really
heavy into martial arts
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and when I was
doing martial arts,
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I found that I had to get
to a point to make a choice,
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which one am I really
going to pursue fully.
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Right.
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Martial arts or...
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and I love both of them.
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Now I can phase
out of that for myself
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but I'm curious for
you, you're in basketball,
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did you see that
the two were blending,
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hip-hop culture and
what you are trying to do
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and holding the lines
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and keeping it
in its purest state
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with the underground
movement and then, of course,
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you are also now
pretty much pursuing
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like a basketball career.
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Did you find that they blended
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or did you find that
they were at variance one
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with the other and
you had to make a choice.
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Yeah. Definitely I
had to make a choice.
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Again, elite athletics,
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when you want to
go to that next level,
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where that's all you're
going to live, eat, sleep,
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breathe.
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When you go to that
level, smoking cigarettes,
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smoking weed every day,
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drinking alcohol
every day is not compatible
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with elite athletics.
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It's a lifestyle and am
I going to go to practice
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for three hours after
school and do double sessions?
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Am I going to do winter
league and summer league and,
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go to camps and all that,
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or am I going to
continue my lifestyle
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and pursue the
hip-hop and, you know,
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do the shows and do the battles
and be where I need to be.
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And now there is
another, you know,
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key dynamic in this whole thing.
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I'm having a child.
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And my girlfriend at
the time, she gets pregnant.
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So as I am going in
now to make a decision.
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Am I going to go
to college or not?
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Am I going to go and try to see
how this is going to play out?
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Because I can
still play basketball
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and kind of do the MC thing
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and go to
college and still float,
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but, you know, get through
because of the basketball,
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and she comes into my
life, my oldest daughter,
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and she is born
right there at 17,
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pregnant at 16 and
then 17 she is born.
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So I made the decision.
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If I go to school,
there is absolutely no way
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I'm going to even consider
my girlfriend or my daughter
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back in Massachusetts.
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I'm going to go away,
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I was thinking
leaning towards Miami
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or even, you know,
Fordham Ruggers, New York area,
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New York
tri-state area being away.
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So I said, I have to
do the responsible thing
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even though as an irresponsible
corrupt individual,
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I have to do a responsible thing
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and stay close to my daughter.
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And street life,
to me at that time,
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was way more important than,
you know, organized athletics,
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because I can
still play basketball
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on the street level,
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still do tournaments,
still do summer leagues,
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and get the
accolades in that respect,
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keep my craft in that respect
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and still excel and
pursue my hip-hop career.
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Now, I'm curious
because the same way
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when I saw those women
lined up in the hotel room
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and, you know, I said to myself,
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this looks wrong,
there was something
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that was in my head
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that instilled
that that was wrong
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when there was a
lot of people around me
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that felt that was right.
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Here you are,
you are a teenager,
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and you are at the
height of two areas,
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one in the
experience of hip-hop culture
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and the underground
but then also athletics,
00:09:13.75\00:09:16.55
but yet there is a principle
that's in your head that says,
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all right, I got my
girlfriend pregnant,
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we are about to have this
baby, I need to be responsible.
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Now I would imagine
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the majority of
brothers around you
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during that time were
not thinking like that
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as it relates to when
they get women pregnant.
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A lot of times, they
are telling them to go
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to the abortion
clinic, you know, whatever.
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You didn't do this.
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Where do you
think that came from?
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I've no idea.
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I know now, but
I had no idea then.
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There were strange
things like that all the time,
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like you could be so corrupt
that you'd beat somebody down
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in the street over anything,
a sandwich, it could be...
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I was in situations
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where I would commit
random acts of violence
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just because I was
upset at some other person
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that had nothing to do with.
00:10:00.90\00:10:02.23
I would just
randomly pick somebody
00:10:02.26\00:10:03.73
and, you know, beat
them down for no reason
00:10:03.77\00:10:06.63
that no interaction with them.
00:10:06.67\00:10:09.07
So I would do that
and feel no way about it.
00:10:09.10\00:10:12.57
No problems, no
second thoughts, no regrets,
00:10:12.61\00:10:15.68
and you know
laugh five minutes later
00:10:15.71\00:10:17.81
and joke two minutes later,
00:10:17.85\00:10:20.15
but then there
were other situations
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where I had this severe moral,
00:10:22.08\00:10:25.05
you know, unction
to do the right thing
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and these standards
to make right decisions,
00:10:27.86\00:10:31.49
"Hey, don't do
that, that's a wrong move,
00:10:31.53\00:10:34.46
you know, do it like this."
00:10:34.50\00:10:35.83
So I knew God
was watching over me
00:10:35.86\00:10:38.20
and He was taking care of me
00:10:38.23\00:10:39.57
and instructing me
even in my ignorance,
00:10:39.60\00:10:41.84
but I didn't
attributed to God at that point.
00:10:41.87\00:10:43.77
I just considered it
myself, making right decisions
00:10:43.81\00:10:46.31
and doing what I felt
was right at the time.
00:10:46.34\00:10:48.04
Now, when you look
at the Gospel of John,
00:10:48.08\00:10:50.51
it does tell us that
there is a time that comes
00:10:50.55\00:10:52.75
where the Spirit
of God is with us
00:10:52.78\00:10:54.82
and then eventually in us.
00:10:54.85\00:10:56.99
I'm sure at this stage
in your life, obviously,
00:10:57.02\00:10:59.09
the Spirit of God
may not have been in you
00:10:59.12\00:11:00.59
but He was with
you, He was guiding you
00:11:00.62\00:11:02.12
and trying to lead you
00:11:02.16\00:11:03.49
to right decisions, right paths,
00:11:03.53\00:11:05.26
and I'm sure that
we understand today
00:11:05.29\00:11:06.86
that that was the Lord
that was leading for you
00:11:06.90\00:11:08.70
to do something
good or responsible.
00:11:08.73\00:11:10.53
But my question
is was there anything
00:11:10.57\00:11:12.27
even in the
books of intelligence
00:11:12.30\00:11:13.94
or anything like
that that comes out,
00:11:13.97\00:11:15.90
because there is
sometimes with people who,
00:11:15.94\00:11:18.17
they look at hip-hop culture,
00:11:18.21\00:11:19.81
and they say
everything about it is wicked,
00:11:19.84\00:11:22.48
there is no good principles
that can come out of it,
00:11:22.51\00:11:25.15
but then you have
others who say, well, no,
00:11:25.18\00:11:26.55
there are some good
principles and, therefore,
00:11:26.58\00:11:28.02
they try to elevate
it from that standpoint.
00:11:28.05\00:11:30.02
I mean, was that a
reality in your life
00:11:30.05\00:11:31.39
with some of the things
00:11:31.42\00:11:32.75
you were exposed
to from listening
00:11:32.79\00:11:34.12
because I know
you weren't reading it
00:11:34.16\00:11:35.49
but from listening.
00:11:35.52\00:11:36.86
Yeah.
00:11:36.89\00:11:38.23
I mean, really the
turning point for me
00:11:38.26\00:11:39.59
was I'm contemplating,
00:11:39.63\00:11:42.03
I always refer to
it as a midlife crisis.
00:11:42.06\00:11:45.20
Fifteen years
old midlife crisis.
00:11:45.23\00:11:48.64
I'm pretty much sick
and tired of the trappings,
00:11:48.67\00:11:53.07
you know, the girls, the
drugs, the money, the violence,
00:11:53.11\00:11:57.41
you know, all of those things.
00:11:57.45\00:12:00.22
I didn't have any fulfillment.
00:12:00.25\00:12:01.58
I did it, and the
fulfillment almost expired
00:12:01.62\00:12:04.09
as soon as the
act was completed,
00:12:04.12\00:12:07.19
and I got sick and
tired of the same crew,
00:12:07.22\00:12:09.32
the same people hanging around,
00:12:09.36\00:12:11.16
doing the same thing everyday.
00:12:11.19\00:12:12.69
It just became, you
know, I was sick and tired.
00:12:12.73\00:12:15.43
I just didn't like it.
00:12:15.46\00:12:16.87
So I'm frustrated
there and I remember
00:12:16.90\00:12:18.97
even as a little child,
I didn't know who God was,
00:12:19.00\00:12:21.30
I didn't know
Christianity like that,
00:12:21.34\00:12:22.87
but I would curse God out.
00:12:22.90\00:12:24.44
In my mind, God
was like a genie.
00:12:24.47\00:12:26.14
I would pray and
say some magic words,
00:12:26.17\00:12:28.54
or say something and
say, "Hey, God, give me this."
00:12:28.58\00:12:31.58
And if it didn't
materialize instantly,
00:12:31.61\00:12:33.52
I would literally curse
God out, you know, audibly.
00:12:33.55\00:12:37.59
And I didn't
understand what I was doing,
00:12:37.62\00:12:39.39
but that's the way I viewed it.
00:12:39.42\00:12:40.92
So now at 15 I'm
having these questions.
00:12:40.96\00:12:44.23
What is my purpose?
00:12:44.26\00:12:45.73
What is the point
of human existence?
00:12:45.76\00:12:50.03
You know, why, the
universe, what is it?
00:12:50.07\00:12:53.44
Is there a God?
Is there not a God.
00:12:53.47\00:12:55.17
So I'm having these
questions in my mind
00:12:55.20\00:12:57.77
and a voice came into my head
00:12:57.81\00:13:00.41
and said
explicitly, interrupted me,
00:13:00.44\00:13:02.64
and said if you want
answers, go and read.
00:13:02.68\00:13:06.58
If you want
answers, go and read.
00:13:06.61\00:13:09.05
Something that I hated to do.
00:13:09.08\00:13:10.65
I thought it was for
certain sort of people
00:13:10.69\00:13:13.22
that was below me and
it was unnecessary for me,
00:13:13.25\00:13:15.99
I had the
knowledge that I needed.
00:13:16.02\00:13:17.79
But I took the challenge,
00:13:17.83\00:13:19.16
again, I took it as a challenge.
00:13:19.19\00:13:20.80
If you want answers, go read.
00:13:20.83\00:13:22.16
I literally got
up at that moment,
00:13:22.20\00:13:24.23
I got up and went to
the high school library
00:13:24.27\00:13:26.77
at the high school
00:13:26.80\00:13:28.14
I was attending at that
time and I got out some books.
00:13:28.17\00:13:30.97
I got out, I
think, four books or five.
00:13:31.01\00:13:33.31
I got a book on Shamanism,
00:13:33.34\00:13:37.11
I got a book on Egyptology,
00:13:37.15\00:13:40.65
I got a book on philosophy,
00:13:40.68\00:13:42.52
a big giant college
textbook on philosophy,
00:13:42.55\00:13:45.32
and I got a book on Mars,
00:13:45.35\00:13:48.52
aliens and stuff
of the red planet.
00:13:48.56\00:13:50.19
Got you.
00:13:50.23\00:13:51.56
So I literally
took the challenge.
00:13:51.59\00:13:53.76
If you want
answers, go read, I said,
00:13:53.80\00:13:55.13
no problem I'm going to go read
00:13:55.16\00:13:56.50
and I started to
read and study religions
00:13:56.53\00:13:58.97
and that led me
on a journey that,
00:13:59.00\00:14:01.87
you know, brought
me to where I am today.
00:14:01.90\00:14:04.17
Very interesting.
00:14:04.21\00:14:05.54
So you are on the journey now
00:14:05.57\00:14:06.94
and you are reading
all these books now.
00:14:06.98\00:14:09.11
One thing I would think is
00:14:09.14\00:14:10.48
none of these
books are in agreement
00:14:10.51\00:14:11.85
with each other.
00:14:11.88\00:14:13.21
You know, Egyptology one moment,
00:14:13.25\00:14:14.85
then you got another book
talking about Mars and aliens,
00:14:14.88\00:14:17.32
and then you have another book
00:14:17.35\00:14:18.69
that talks about
various philosophies
00:14:18.72\00:14:20.06
that can come
from Chinese culture,
00:14:20.09\00:14:21.52
otherwise, and
not necessarily Egypt.
00:14:21.56\00:14:23.39
So you're filling
your head with knowledge
00:14:23.43\00:14:26.46
and you're gaining
all this information
00:14:26.49\00:14:29.63
but it's possible, I mean,
did you notice contradictions?
00:14:29.66\00:14:31.40
Absolutely.
00:14:31.43\00:14:32.77
The way that I rationalized it
00:14:32.80\00:14:36.47
was that there was
truth in everything
00:14:36.50\00:14:41.64
and my job is just to
find the truth in everything
00:14:41.68\00:14:45.78
and bring it together
and make my own truth.
00:14:45.81\00:14:47.78
Now, is there a
type of movement,
00:14:47.82\00:14:50.12
religious structure
or anything like that
00:14:50.15\00:14:52.05
that exists today
00:14:52.09\00:14:53.52
which just kind of brings
about those same principles,
00:14:53.56\00:14:55.92
you think where
it's kind of like
00:14:55.96\00:14:57.69
find the truth in
just about anything
00:14:57.73\00:14:59.39
and try to amalgamate
it and bring out there.
00:14:59.43\00:15:00.93
Yeah.
00:15:00.96\00:15:02.30
I mean, in my
opinion it's plenty,
00:15:02.33\00:15:03.67
I mean, I think even
some Christians do that,
00:15:03.70\00:15:05.63
Muslims do that,
00:15:05.67\00:15:07.00
where they say you know
what, "Yeah, that's true
00:15:07.04\00:15:08.67
but I think this is also true."
00:15:08.70\00:15:10.11
New age movement,
00:15:10.14\00:15:11.67
like we talked about,
the Five-Percent Nation
00:15:11.71\00:15:13.38
and in fact, how I
across the Five-Percent Nation,
00:15:13.41\00:15:17.21
I said, I had the early
exposure with the individual
00:15:17.25\00:15:19.85
that came from Brooklyn
00:15:19.88\00:15:21.28
but he wasn't
really building like that.
00:15:21.32\00:15:23.49
He wasn't really always
trying to convert people.
00:15:23.52\00:15:26.09
He just mentioned that
00:15:26.12\00:15:27.46
he was associated with
the Five-Percent Nation.
00:15:27.49\00:15:30.76
But a friend, a close friend,
00:15:30.79\00:15:32.93
you know, I call
it a close friend
00:15:32.96\00:15:34.30
'cause somebody in
my crew at this time,
00:15:34.33\00:15:36.23
his mother was
actually one of the earths,
00:15:36.26\00:15:39.13
you know she was
part of the Nation,
00:15:39.17\00:15:41.10
and she had all of the books.
00:15:41.14\00:15:43.67
She had the 120
lessons, pre-mathematics,
00:15:43.71\00:15:46.57
you know, the demonology,
00:15:46.61\00:15:48.38
she had all of the
necessary literature
00:15:48.41\00:15:52.21
to prepare for examination
00:15:52.25\00:15:54.62
to enter the
Five-Percent Nation.
00:15:54.65\00:15:57.29
And so what I told myself
is I'm pretty much convinced
00:15:57.32\00:16:01.66
that the Five-Percent
Nation is where I want to be,
00:16:01.69\00:16:04.49
because I saw it as supreme
00:16:04.53\00:16:07.73
in the sense that it
had some kind of explanation
00:16:07.76\00:16:11.13
for all the contradictions
and discrepancies,
00:16:11.17\00:16:13.74
and it propped up the individual
00:16:13.77\00:16:16.30
as the sole controller
00:16:16.34\00:16:17.81
and the authority,
the God, the final law,
00:16:17.84\00:16:21.74
and the final
verdict in all decisions.
00:16:21.78\00:16:23.88
I don't have to consult a book.
00:16:23.91\00:16:25.71
I decide on the spot
and my decision is law
00:16:25.75\00:16:28.58
and my decision is right.
00:16:28.62\00:16:29.98
So whether that means I
have to cut somebody down
00:16:30.02\00:16:32.69
or that means I have
to do this on the side
00:16:32.72\00:16:35.02
or that means I
have to think this way
00:16:35.06\00:16:36.93
or say this or say that
00:16:36.96\00:16:38.29
it is based on my
own interpretation
00:16:38.33\00:16:40.66
and my own understanding.
00:16:40.70\00:16:42.06
So I told myself, I'm
going to become a Five-Percenter
00:16:42.10\00:16:46.57
but before I do that,
I have to read the Quran.
00:16:46.60\00:16:50.54
I have to approach
the Quran and study it
00:16:50.57\00:16:54.81
and then if my
mind is still settled,
00:16:54.84\00:16:58.41
then go in to study my lessons
and go through the process.
00:16:58.45\00:17:02.75
So I began that journey
00:17:02.78\00:17:05.69
and I found
myself going through,
00:17:05.72\00:17:08.72
you know, 30 books, 40
books, going to the point now
00:17:08.76\00:17:12.09
where I studied New
Age, I studied Buddhism,
00:17:12.13\00:17:14.13
and Shamanism, and Shintoism,
00:17:14.16\00:17:16.03
and read books on all
these various religions,
00:17:16.06\00:17:18.80
some more than others,
never reading the Bible.
00:17:18.83\00:17:22.50
But now I found
myself studying the Quran
00:17:22.54\00:17:24.21
and to me this is
the final transition
00:17:24.24\00:17:27.21
into where I feel
that I need to be.
00:17:27.24\00:17:29.94
Now, there are people who
use as almost a bragging point
00:17:29.98\00:17:34.05
or a point of merit
00:17:34.08\00:17:35.42
that I have read
X amount of books,
00:17:35.45\00:17:37.82
I understand X
amount of languages,
00:17:37.85\00:17:39.75
I've been exposed to
X amount of religions,
00:17:39.79\00:17:41.96
therefore, I'm now an
authority on spirituality.
00:17:41.99\00:17:44.56
That's right.
00:17:44.59\00:17:45.93
What's your thoughts on that?
00:17:45.96\00:17:47.30
On those people today
or my thoughts back then?
00:17:47.33\00:17:49.60
Your thoughts on people today.
00:17:49.63\00:17:50.97
I'm curious about that.
00:17:51.00\00:17:52.33
Well, it goes down to the
root of corruption in humanity
00:17:52.37\00:17:57.84
is selfishness, you
know, self-exaltation,
00:17:57.87\00:18:00.64
the idea that "I" am
the one that determines
00:18:00.68\00:18:04.51
what's right and wrong,
00:18:04.55\00:18:06.01
and the idea that
there is nobody above me,
00:18:06.05\00:18:08.42
and there is no
standard that is set
00:18:08.45\00:18:10.59
outside of the
standards that I set.
00:18:10.62\00:18:13.05
The idea of God that
has a law, that has a way,
00:18:13.09\00:18:17.56
that has a standard and that...
00:18:17.59\00:18:21.86
that not demands
but deserves my worship
00:18:21.90\00:18:26.27
and reverence and respect.
00:18:26.30\00:18:27.64
I'm the person that
should obtain the reverence
00:18:27.67\00:18:30.07
and the respect
based on my standards
00:18:30.11\00:18:32.57
and what I say is right.
00:18:32.61\00:18:33.94
So to me it's, it's
kind of a copout in a sense,
00:18:33.98\00:18:40.42
because anything,
anytime you are challenged,
00:18:40.45\00:18:43.08
you can simply, you know,
step away from that standard
00:18:43.12\00:18:45.75
or that principle
or that philosophy
00:18:45.79\00:18:48.22
and just kind of spin
it into something else.
00:18:48.26\00:18:50.86
You can never corner
me because I can just...
00:18:50.89\00:18:54.06
Oh, well, if I don't,
oh, you don't like that,
00:18:54.10\00:18:55.53
then I can just become this
00:18:55.56\00:18:56.90
and I can become that and I say,
00:18:56.93\00:18:58.27
well, yeah, that's right in
this situation but is wrong.
00:18:58.30\00:19:00.74
You know, so I'm
kind like a chameleon,
00:19:00.77\00:19:03.54
I'm never really
settled into something,
00:19:03.57\00:19:05.34
what I'm really
settled in is to myself.
00:19:05.37\00:19:07.24
So truth becomes
relative in that absolute.
00:19:07.28\00:19:09.24
Truth becomes relative
and there is no absolute
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.55
and that becomes...
00:19:11.58\00:19:13.82
It has a crippling effect.
00:19:13.85\00:19:15.62
And I think, I've
seen it in my own life
00:19:15.65\00:19:18.19
and I think other people
have experienced it as well.
00:19:18.22\00:19:21.69
So with that understanding,
00:19:21.72\00:19:24.89
where was the breaking
00:19:24.93\00:19:27.30
transitioning paradigm
shift point in your life
00:19:27.33\00:19:30.43
where these
understandings you have today
00:19:30.47\00:19:33.23
became real to you back then.
00:19:33.27\00:19:34.60
You're reading all these books,
00:19:34.64\00:19:35.97
now you're going
through the Quran,
00:19:36.00\00:19:37.34
and you are going
through the height of heights
00:19:37.37\00:19:38.71
as you put it,
00:19:38.74\00:19:40.08
but yet you
understand today that
00:19:40.11\00:19:41.84
this was leading
on a downward spiral.
00:19:41.88\00:19:43.95
What was it that broke
00:19:43.98\00:19:46.45
this thought
process in your mind
00:19:46.48\00:19:47.92
and put you on the shift now
00:19:47.95\00:19:49.28
to the
understanding you have today?
00:19:49.32\00:19:50.65
Right.
00:19:50.69\00:19:52.02
So when I got that
original challenge,
00:19:52.05\00:19:53.39
if you want
answers, go and read.
00:19:53.42\00:19:54.76
I now became conscious
if you will of this outside,
00:19:54.79\00:19:58.96
kind of, call it a third eye,
00:19:58.99\00:20:01.66
you know, this special
wisdom that would come to you,
00:20:01.70\00:20:03.80
revelations if you will,
00:20:03.83\00:20:06.17
so I was kind of
conscious of that,
00:20:06.20\00:20:08.24
you know, and I
studied meditation,
00:20:08.27\00:20:09.80
and I was always constantly
00:20:09.84\00:20:11.17
trying to follow
all these principles
00:20:11.21\00:20:13.17
and kind of,
again, make my own truth
00:20:13.21\00:20:14.88
based on the
things that I would pick
00:20:14.91\00:20:16.34
and grab from other sources.
00:20:16.38\00:20:19.45
Eventually, a friend's,
or before that even happened,
00:20:19.48\00:20:24.25
I visited my family down south
00:20:24.29\00:20:26.32
and my sister was talking about,
00:20:26.35\00:20:27.69
oh, I'm saved,
I'm saved, I'm saved.
00:20:27.72\00:20:29.12
And I didn't know
what she was talking about,
00:20:29.16\00:20:30.69
it was nonsense to me.
00:20:30.73\00:20:32.06
But she gave me a book,
she put a book in my hand.
00:20:32.09\00:20:33.53
It's "Knowing God's
Plan for Your Life".
00:20:33.56\00:20:35.70
It was just a small
little book talking about,
00:20:35.73\00:20:37.63
we're all running the
race and the Book of Romans
00:20:37.67\00:20:41.04
and the different
aspects of Paul's epistles
00:20:41.07\00:20:44.64
and I read it and,
you know, just took it.
00:20:44.67\00:20:47.88
Through the
course of this reading,
00:20:47.91\00:20:49.34
I also came across other books.
00:20:49.38\00:20:51.08
I was visiting a
friend at his apartment
00:20:51.11\00:20:53.38
and he had a book on the counter
00:20:53.42\00:20:55.45
called Illuminati 666
00:20:55.48\00:20:58.42
and this book basically
went through the history
00:20:58.45\00:21:00.09
of paganism and showed how...
00:21:00.12\00:21:03.12
Kind of the biblical war
that we're talking about,
00:21:03.16\00:21:05.29
the Great
Controversy and Bible Prophecy,
00:21:05.33\00:21:07.03
Daniel, Revelation,
00:21:07.06\00:21:08.40
and kind of broke
all those things down.
00:21:08.43\00:21:09.76
I took that in as truth.
00:21:09.80\00:21:13.54
That book appealed to me
00:21:13.57\00:21:14.90
because it had that
seal of the United States,
00:21:14.94\00:21:17.97
the pyramid with the eye on top,
00:21:18.01\00:21:19.81
that's on the dollar
bill, it had that on the cover.
00:21:19.84\00:21:22.54
I had read another book
00:21:22.58\00:21:23.91
my girlfriend
who is my wife now,
00:21:23.95\00:21:25.51
her cousin came from LA to visit
00:21:25.55\00:21:27.62
and he brought this book
called the "New World Order"
00:21:27.65\00:21:29.78
and it had that same
symbol, so I read that book.
00:21:29.82\00:21:31.55
When I saw the other
book with the same symbol,
00:21:31.59\00:21:32.95
I said, man, I
got to read that book.
00:21:32.99\00:21:35.02
Another instance, I'm building,
00:21:35.06\00:21:37.36
you know, we are
talking, building these concepts
00:21:37.39\00:21:39.79
and going in
deep, doing the science
00:21:39.83\00:21:41.96
and mathematics
with two of my friends.
00:21:42.00\00:21:44.43
We were staying up all night
talking and talking nonsense,
00:21:44.47\00:21:47.70
and eventually I break
off from the conversation,
00:21:47.74\00:21:50.41
go into the closet
in my mother's house,
00:21:50.44\00:21:52.54
in her hallway
there is this closet.
00:21:52.57\00:21:54.34
I opened the closet,
00:21:54.38\00:21:55.71
there is a box of
books on the floor.
00:21:55.74\00:21:58.25
I get that box and
it looks interesting.
00:21:58.28\00:22:00.45
It has these books in
there with interesting titles
00:22:00.48\00:22:03.02
and I bring it back to
my couple of friends there
00:22:03.05\00:22:05.95
and we're all excited,
00:22:05.99\00:22:07.32
we're like, man,
look at this book,
00:22:07.36\00:22:08.69
I'm going to take this
one, I'm going to that one.
00:22:08.72\00:22:10.06
Both of those brothers
got locked up, disappeared
00:22:10.09\00:22:12.23
and I ended up with the book
called "Acts of the Apostles"
00:22:12.26\00:22:14.70
that walks
through the Books of Acts
00:22:14.73\00:22:17.70
and the experience of
the apostles of Jesus Christ
00:22:17.73\00:22:20.37
after His death and crucifixion.
00:22:20.40\00:22:23.64
I read through that book
00:22:23.67\00:22:25.01
and applied it
to my "knowledge".
00:22:25.04\00:22:29.34
Eventually, as
you know, time passes,
00:22:29.38\00:22:32.55
and me and my friend
are coming out of the mall,
00:22:32.58\00:22:35.45
we are
complaining about haircuts.
00:22:35.48\00:22:37.45
He was from New York,
Bushwick area, Brooklyn
00:22:37.49\00:22:41.09
and I was coming
from the Boston area.
00:22:41.12\00:22:43.02
We are in this other city now
and there is no barber shops.
00:22:43.06\00:22:46.19
There is one barber
shop that's no good,
00:22:46.23\00:22:47.56
we get into house cuts,
00:22:47.60\00:22:49.13
taking a train two
hours to go get a haircut
00:22:49.16\00:22:51.70
and we're complaining,
00:22:51.73\00:22:53.07
we're just talking
nonsense, complaining, joking.
00:22:53.10\00:22:56.87
We get in the car
00:22:56.91\00:22:58.24
and in the car there is a flyer.
00:22:58.27\00:23:00.11
And the flyer, normally trash,
00:23:00.14\00:23:02.38
we read the flyer and it says...
00:23:02.41\00:23:04.35
now open, the
Armatree's barber shop,
00:23:04.38\00:23:06.61
$5 off the first haircut.
00:23:06.65\00:23:08.42
It was right down the
block from the mall we were at
00:23:08.45\00:23:10.89
and we're amazed, we're like,
well, let's go check it out.
00:23:10.92\00:23:12.99
There is a coupon
00:23:13.02\00:23:14.96
and it's right down
the street so we go,
00:23:14.99\00:23:17.63
we meet the barber,
the owner, he is cool.
00:23:17.66\00:23:20.96
It's literally about
three blocks from the job
00:23:21.00\00:23:23.63
that we had at the time,
the place we were working.
00:23:23.67\00:23:25.83
So I found myself now
going to this barber's shop
00:23:25.87\00:23:28.37
you know once,
twice, three times a week
00:23:28.40\00:23:31.01
either to get a haircut
00:23:31.04\00:23:32.37
or just, you know, just
to talk, just to hang out.
00:23:32.41\00:23:35.11
As that continues,
00:23:35.14\00:23:37.51
we start getting in
these religious battles,
00:23:37.55\00:23:39.51
like these heated almost
fistfight religious battles
00:23:39.55\00:23:42.68
and my friend is siding
with the barber and the owner.
00:23:42.72\00:23:46.99
I cannot understand.
00:23:47.02\00:23:48.99
It makes me furious
00:23:49.02\00:23:51.49
and they are
talking this Bible...
00:23:51.53\00:23:53.26
They're talking
about Bible Christianity,
00:23:53.29\00:23:55.20
they don't understand.
00:23:55.23\00:23:56.56
I'm telling them, hey,
the Bible is half truth,
00:23:56.60\00:23:57.93
it was corrupted.
00:23:57.97\00:23:59.30
You know, Jesus is not
God, He shouldn't be worshipped.
00:23:59.33\00:24:01.40
He is the example of humanity
00:24:01.44\00:24:04.14
but He was there to
tell us that God is in us.
00:24:04.17\00:24:07.28
And this is my
whole perspective,
00:24:07.31\00:24:08.64
and I'm trying to
embarrass these, these...
00:24:08.68\00:24:11.11
Guy's talking
about Christianity.
00:24:11.15\00:24:12.48
All of a sudden,
remember a brother
00:24:12.51\00:24:14.45
that I'm running
the streets with,
00:24:14.48\00:24:15.82
doing all kinds of dirt,
00:24:15.85\00:24:17.19
all of a sudden
he is talking Bible,
00:24:17.22\00:24:18.55
and I don't understand
it, doesn't make sense.
00:24:18.59\00:24:20.32
So this went on
for several months.
00:24:20.36\00:24:22.02
Eventually the barber
comes up to me one day,
00:24:22.06\00:24:23.79
I'm sitting in
the shop, and he says,
00:24:23.83\00:24:25.16
"Hey, I got a
pastor coming through
00:24:25.19\00:24:27.16
and he is going to
give some Bible studies."
00:24:27.20\00:24:29.16
I was excited because in my mind
00:24:29.20\00:24:32.03
I'm like bring
the pastor through,
00:24:32.07\00:24:33.40
I will cut him down
00:24:33.44\00:24:34.77
just like I've been
cutting you guys down
00:24:34.80\00:24:36.71
and embarrassing
you this whole time.
00:24:36.74\00:24:38.44
You know in the
Five-Percent Nation,
00:24:38.47\00:24:40.61
they call it cutting
hairs, chopping necks,
00:24:40.64\00:24:43.18
you know, we
embarrass weak Christians
00:24:43.21\00:24:45.48
and use their own
stuff against them.
00:24:45.51\00:24:48.92
So I sat there and
waited, closed the shop.
00:24:48.95\00:24:52.02
There was about 25 of us
or so, sitting in this group
00:24:52.05\00:24:55.26
and having a Bible study.
00:24:55.29\00:24:56.62
I had never even
heard of the concept.
00:24:56.66\00:24:58.26
I never studied the
Bible, I read a couple,
00:24:58.29\00:24:59.96
you know, read
Revelation, Ezekiel,
00:25:00.00\00:25:01.56
some prophecies,
never studied it.
00:25:01.60\00:25:04.37
We go through these studies
00:25:04.40\00:25:05.73
and it's the
authority of God's word
00:25:05.77\00:25:07.37
on one side of
this piece of paper
00:25:07.40\00:25:08.90
and the other side is
talking about Daniel 2
00:25:08.94\00:25:11.71
and the image of Nebuchadnezzar
00:25:11.74\00:25:13.34
that we're going
to be talking about.
00:25:13.38\00:25:14.94
And in fact, these
are things that I read
00:25:14.98\00:25:16.85
and accepted as truth in
some of these random books
00:25:16.88\00:25:19.21
I found along the way
and now I'm 60 books in
00:25:19.25\00:25:22.35
and I accepted
these things as truth,
00:25:22.38\00:25:24.19
and I'm seeing
them for the first time
00:25:24.22\00:25:25.72
actually in the Bible.
00:25:25.75\00:25:27.32
I was astonished,
00:25:27.36\00:25:28.69
I kept my mouth
shut the whole time.
00:25:28.72\00:25:30.66
I went at the end of the study,
00:25:30.69\00:25:32.09
I asked the pastor, "Hey,
you got any more of those."
00:25:32.13\00:25:34.16
He gave me a stack
of studies, 31 lessons,
00:25:34.20\00:25:36.63
he gave me a Bible
and a retractable pencil.
00:25:36.67\00:25:39.73
I lost my job, I
got sick, lost my job.
00:25:39.77\00:25:42.20
Everyday I did those studies.
00:25:42.24\00:25:44.21
I woke up 8 and
just did those studies.
00:25:44.24\00:25:46.01
I did them
through once 31 lessons,
00:25:46.04\00:25:47.94
again a second
time, a half way to third
00:25:47.98\00:25:50.05
and I was
absolutely settled in my mind.
00:25:50.08\00:25:52.48
All of the contradictions,
00:25:52.51\00:25:54.22
all of the writings
about Jesus from the New Ages,
00:25:54.25\00:25:57.19
from the Muslims, from
the Quran, from the NOY,
00:25:57.22\00:26:00.79
from the Five-Percenters
00:26:00.82\00:26:02.16
saying that Jesus did this,
00:26:02.19\00:26:03.53
oh, He didn't die
on the cross, He did...
00:26:03.56\00:26:04.89
All of the
contradictions that they claimed
00:26:04.93\00:26:06.63
were completely dismantled.
00:26:06.66\00:26:08.03
The Bible didn't
contradict itself.
00:26:08.06\00:26:09.76
All of the talk wasn't true.
00:26:09.80\00:26:11.97
The Bible
establishes its own authority
00:26:12.00\00:26:14.87
and it explains
everything clearly
00:26:14.90\00:26:17.11
and my mind was made up
00:26:17.14\00:26:18.91
and I come to find out
00:26:18.94\00:26:20.81
that the pastor was
Seventh-Day Adventist,
00:26:20.84\00:26:22.51
come to find out
00:26:22.54\00:26:23.88
that the barber was
Seventh-day Adventist,
00:26:23.91\00:26:26.01
my boy that I was
running the streets
00:26:26.05\00:26:27.38
was Seventh-day Adventist,
00:26:27.42\00:26:28.75
a girl that I was working
was Seventh-day Adventist,
00:26:28.78\00:26:30.69
all of these Adventists,
00:26:30.72\00:26:32.05
the books in my mother's house
Seventh-day Adventist books
00:26:32.09\00:26:35.82
left there by somebody
that lived in my house,
00:26:35.86\00:26:38.19
a friend and he moved away,
00:26:38.23\00:26:40.33
he's trying to
get with the girl,
00:26:40.36\00:26:41.83
and he started going to
this church, got baptized,
00:26:41.86\00:26:44.43
they gave him a gift,
00:26:44.47\00:26:45.80
he left the books
when he moved out.
00:26:45.83\00:26:47.20
The friend that I was building
with that I got locked up,
00:26:47.24\00:26:49.30
he was Seventh-day Adventist.
00:26:49.34\00:26:50.84
All these people
making drug transactions
00:26:50.87\00:26:53.71
with, suppliers,
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:26:53.74\00:26:56.64
So I found myself now
a Seventh-day Adventist,
00:26:56.68\00:27:00.98
and to me it was the truth
00:27:01.02\00:27:03.65
and there was no way
anybody could budge me out of it
00:27:03.69\00:27:06.25
because I had gone
through that journey.
00:27:06.29\00:27:08.46
That was my mindset then
00:27:08.49\00:27:10.09
and essentially
is my mindset now.
00:27:10.13\00:27:12.63
But I don't think I am
as militant as I once was.
00:27:12.66\00:27:15.56
And you know what?
00:27:15.60\00:27:16.93
I look forward to talking more
00:27:16.97\00:27:18.30
when we get into some
of those polishing effects
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.94
that God does in a person's life
00:27:20.97\00:27:22.97
because as you said militant,
00:27:23.00\00:27:24.87
so it is that I remembered
being very militant as well.
00:27:24.91\00:27:27.68
But we are grateful for
the way God works in our lives
00:27:27.71\00:27:29.54
and I really appreciate
you sharing the things
00:27:29.58\00:27:31.91
that you shared
with us, brother,
00:27:31.95\00:27:33.28
and I trust that to our
viewers that this is something
00:27:33.31\00:27:35.58
that I would trust would pose
a powerful blessing to you all.
00:27:35.62\00:27:39.05
I really want to thank you
all for joining with us today.
00:27:39.09\00:27:41.52
Lance, I want to thank you
00:27:41.56\00:27:42.89
for sharing with
us your testimony,
00:27:42.92\00:27:44.26
and I hope that this has
overcoming power to all of us
00:27:44.29\00:27:47.40
that's going to
be able to help us
00:27:47.43\00:27:49.33
to know how we can have
victory in our own lives.
00:27:49.36\00:27:52.03
Until the next time,
00:27:52.07\00:27:53.40
join with us on the next episode
00:27:53.44\00:27:54.77
and remember Proverbs 2:6,
00:27:54.80\00:27:57.31
"It is God that gives wisdom
00:27:57.34\00:27:59.07
and out of his mouth comes
knowledge and understanding."
00:27:59.11\00:28:01.18