Hello, my name is Dwayne Lemon.
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And I'm Lance Wilbur.
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And we want to welcome you
to a True Knowledge of Self,
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where we get to know ourselves
from a Biblical perspective.
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We have an opportunity today
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where we're going to
interview Lance Wilbur.
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I had the privilege of
being interviewed by him
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to give him a
little bit of my story,
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but I'm especially
excited about talking with Lance
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and hearing about his story
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because that same principle
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that was in our
previous episodes,
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talking about overcoming
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and the ability to do that
by the word of our testimony
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as found in Revelation 12:11.
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I'm thankful
because I had an opportunity
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to share from a different
perspective of my experience
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in the hip-hop
and R & B culture.
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Brother Lance comes
from a different experience
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and I think his
experience is going to speak
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to many of the hearts of those
who are viewing with us today,
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so I'm very excited about this.
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Lance, I'm really happy
to have you with us, brother.
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All right.
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So that we can hear a little bit
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about how the Lord has
led you, in your experience,
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as it relates to
growing up outside of Christ,
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outside of the Bible,
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growing up in urban
youth and urban environments
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and so on, and how
the Lord has led you.
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I'll just go ahead and start
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by just asking
you a simple question.
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Tell us where you're from,
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tell us a little bit
about your upbringing.
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All right.
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Well, I'm from Massachusetts,
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still in the
northeast and the east coast,
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slightly a different experience.
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I was born in a
suburb, moved into the city,
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there for a
short period of time,
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back out to the
suburb in which I was born,
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right outside on
the outskirts of Boston,
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and as, you know, a young man,
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some of the same
challenges as we discussed,
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but I'm raised in a
single-parent household,
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a little different dynamic.
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My father is in and out,
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so it's not like I
didn't know who he was,
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but he was in and out.
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And some of the memories,
complete chaos, and violent,
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domestic violence,
and all kinds of madness.
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So I had that
coming up, so obviously,
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there's the obvious void,
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when you are
growing up as a young man,
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no father figure to speak of,
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boyfriends coming in
and out of the picture
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with the mother,
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really no consistent male
figure to pattern myself after.
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Now, if you don't mind, just,
you know, looking back at that,
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when you think
about your experience
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coming from a
single-parent home,
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and you said there
was domestic violence,
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was that
something that was inflicted
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on everybody in your household
or was it just, you know,
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how was that manifested.
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How did that affect you, Lance?
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Strangely enough, it was just
between my father and mother.
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I mean, my
father never touched me,
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never laid a hand on me,
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you know, maybe once in a
while for disciplinary sake,
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but never struck me
or anything like that,
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but I have seen
situations where, you know,
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I've seen him do crazy things
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that I won't
mention for his sake
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but the kinds of
things that you never forget
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and that you are helpless,
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you know, at a young age,
five, six, seven years old,
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you're absolutely helpless.
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You can't do
anything to prevent it.
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So it was traumatic
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but it was
something that became normal.
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Now, this is
interesting because, you know,
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we are hearing unfortunate
recent reports about young men
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who go on a gun craze
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and they will not only
take the lives of others
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but sometimes, they take
the lives of their own parents.
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Yeah.
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In other words, it is something
they saw from childhood
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that's obviously
stuck in their minds,
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to the point
that it seems almost
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as if when they
grow up and get older,
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they are thinking,
"Once I get my chance,
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I'm going to let it loose."
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Were these the kind of thoughts,
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vengeful thoughts or anything
that has gone on in your mind?
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You can say that,
but I was, I was...
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I consider
myself now looking back,
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I was always thinking,
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so I was always in
my own kind of world
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and trying to rationalize
and think things through.
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So I felt that I could control,
you know, my aggression.
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But if my
aggression, you know, let go,
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then it was
going to be problems,
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but I tried to,
or I prided myself,
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if you will, on my
ability to control,
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you know, my
environment, my situation,
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my actions, my behavior.
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Okay.
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So now, you know, you
are growing up in a home
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where it's broken
and Dad is not around,
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anywhere near to the
amount he needs to be,
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Mom is obviously trying
to play a role of mother
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and father as much
as possible, siblings?
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I had a younger
brother eventually,
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but he is like eight
years younger to me so,
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really I have half sisters
that lived in different states,
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so it was pretty much me,
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and my little
brother came along,
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but, you know, we
had a large age gap.
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Okay, all right.
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So now, growing up, you
got your younger brother,
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but, you know, there's
a gap, so I don't know,
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you probably didn't
have as tight a relationship
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with him?
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No, as it, not like
we grew up together.
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Okay.
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I was always way, in a
whole another stage of life
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as he is coming up.
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Got you.
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Okay, so now, you're growing up,
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you're at home,
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Mom is obviously trying to
work to take care of you all
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and so on, I would assume that
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if Mom is trying to
be mother and father,
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and then on top of that,
she is busy working and so on,
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that means you had a
lot of time to yourself.
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Had a lot of time to
myself and that's pretty much
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where some of the challenges
and the problems came from.
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So I can't
really blame my parents.
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My mother was a nurse.
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She worked long
hours, double shifts,
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she was
constantly out of the house,
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so, yeah, coming up,
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you've pretty much
taken care of yourself,
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'cause, you know,
once you hit that age
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where you can
take care of yourself,
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you're at home, alone,
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and then I had one of my
little brothers coming along,
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I'm taking care of
him, you know, at seven,
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eight, nine years old,
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basically
watching an infant for,
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you know, eight hours,
coming home from school,
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and you kind of living
on your own, if you will,
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so it was pretty
much in that setting.
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There was no real
religion in my household.
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Okay. No church to speak of.
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No prayer or even
any religious discussion
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or concepts that I can
remember as a little child.
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And my mother was
young as well and, you know,
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she had her own life,
you know, partying and music,
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it was a biracial
household as well.
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So I was exposed to, you know,
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the full spectrum of cultures
and music and everything else.
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So, yeah, it was a challenge,
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there's no question
about it and at the same time,
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you're going
through the normal changes,
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and the normal development,
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and the normal stages,
and trying to find your own,
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and trying to
find where you fit in,
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and so we found
ourselves moving a lot,
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you know, financially,
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we were in poverty
pretty much growing up.
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It's not like we didn't eat...
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Yeah, yeah.
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But, you know, we didn't
have what everybody else had.
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So I found myself
escaping into entertainment,
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escaping into music,
escaping into movies,
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and everything
else, and now, we're,
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I'm out in the
suburbs at this time,
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so I'm getting
exposed to hip-hop
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for the very first
time through the TV,
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you know, through
images, you know, old,
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I think when MTV
is just starting out,
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and they had
video music box and V66,
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and they're
playing these music videos,
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and you have movies, and
you had, you know, music.
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We had local in Boston area,
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we had local groups,
you know, New Edition, and
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Ed O.G. and Da Bulldogs,
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and so there was
hip-hop in Boston
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but it was nowhere
near the same scene.
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There was the
industries that labels,
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the industry was not
present in Boston like that.
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There weren't many
studios to speak of
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and exactly to
speak of, so most people,
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if they wanted to make it
big, or they wanted to get in,
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they had to go to New York,
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they had to go
through New York to do that,
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so I'm getting
exposed in that way,
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and pretty much now
as I'm going into...
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We moved into
another section of the city
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and this was supposedly
the bad section of the city,
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and new group of
friends, new neighborhood,
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I'm going into junior high,
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and I'm always,
I was always big.
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I was always taller
than everybody in my class
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and so I always hung
around with older people,
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you know, older age groups.
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Now, what was your attitude like
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when you
transitioned into high school?
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'Cause you remember,
when I went to high school,
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I'm a nobody,
nobody is recognizing me,
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no one wants to be my friend,
I had to use something, I mean,
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when you came into high school,
were you going in insecure?
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Were you going in like,
"Look, I'm the man," I mean,
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what was your attitude
like going into high school,
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as you're branching into
this new phase in your life?
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Yeah.
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It was slightly
different in that,
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I felt that I had a
reputation, I had a niche.
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As I'm getting older,
I'm always bigger, and that,
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you know, that holds
weight in the street,
00:09:05.27\00:09:08.34
so I found myself being
able to establish myself
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and do anything I wanted
to do, and lead other people,
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so I had my crew
and lead other men
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and, you know, other kids
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and pretty much make my own way.
00:09:18.89\00:09:22.22
So by the time I'm
getting into junior high,
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that's development,
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so by the time I
get into high school,
00:09:25.59\00:09:26.93
I already had,
kind of a reputation
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that preceded me and, you
know, I felt like I was...
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I was, where I needed to
be and if anybody, you know,
00:09:34.10\00:09:37.74
wanted to challenge that,
00:09:37.77\00:09:39.11
then I was ready
for that challenge.
00:09:39.14\00:09:40.84
So now, right now,
you're at a point where,
00:09:40.88\00:09:43.75
you know, you're
what I'm going to say
00:09:43.78\00:09:45.81
was the typical urban youth
that we see a lot going on,
00:09:45.85\00:09:49.28
sometimes single-parent home,
00:09:49.32\00:09:51.99
growing up with the television,
videogames and friends
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are pretty much what's around us
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more than own parental guidance,
00:09:55.82\00:09:57.56
then on top of
that, you're in school.
00:09:57.59\00:09:59.43
You're using the influences
what you got naturally,
00:09:59.46\00:10:01.63
you're a big
guy, so you figured,
00:10:01.66\00:10:03.00
"Let me use that to my influence
00:10:03.03\00:10:04.37
to be influential
to others" and so on,
00:10:04.40\00:10:07.30
where is the role of, you know,
00:10:07.34\00:10:09.97
the influence of hip-hop culture
00:10:10.01\00:10:11.51
at that point in your life?
00:10:11.54\00:10:13.41
Like I said,
00:10:13.44\00:10:14.78
when I moved to this
new section of the town,
00:10:14.81\00:10:16.44
this outside as
what we called it,
00:10:16.48\00:10:18.45
and I got a new
group of friends,
00:10:18.48\00:10:20.82
and there's a new
junior high I'm going into,
00:10:20.85\00:10:23.92
I moved right at like
the tail end of the summer.
00:10:23.95\00:10:27.46
I got exposed to the music.
00:10:27.49\00:10:30.03
Basically, you know, we had
the tape store, a record store,
00:10:30.06\00:10:33.06
and go down to the record store,
00:10:33.09\00:10:35.26
and they will put out new
music and I just remember,
00:10:35.30\00:10:38.63
just one summer in particular,
00:10:38.67\00:10:41.10
a couple of individuals that
I had met through my mother,
00:10:41.14\00:10:44.47
they worked with my mother,
00:10:44.51\00:10:45.84
they had just
gone out of New York.
00:10:45.87\00:10:47.68
There was a brother from Holland
00:10:47.71\00:10:49.04
and a brother from Brooklyn,
00:10:49.08\00:10:50.41
and so they were
talking about, you know,
00:10:50.45\00:10:51.78
these different groups,
00:10:51.81\00:10:53.15
some of the
groups I never heard of,
00:10:53.18\00:10:54.52
so I go to the record
store and I pick up, you know,
00:10:54.55\00:10:58.15
Slick Rick, and
your Tribe Called Quest,
00:10:58.19\00:11:01.79
and your KRS-One, and
your Kool G Rap and your,
00:11:01.82\00:11:05.29
so I started getting into this.
00:11:05.33\00:11:06.66
There were other young
people, like out of way,
00:11:06.70\00:11:09.33
I can go back to
elementary school,
00:11:09.36\00:11:11.10
and some of my classmates,
their older brothers,
00:11:11.13\00:11:15.07
and Beastie Boys comes out,
00:11:15.10\00:11:17.11
you know, I think it was called,
00:11:17.14\00:11:18.47
Licensed to Ill, and
they're coming in schools,
00:11:18.51\00:11:20.48
singing these songs,
00:11:20.51\00:11:21.84
never heard anything
like that in my life,
00:11:21.88\00:11:23.88
completely different.
00:11:23.91\00:11:25.25
Run Diam comes out
00:11:25.28\00:11:26.68
and these things that
are completely different,
00:11:26.72\00:11:29.85
you know, new, and
so that is attractive,
00:11:29.88\00:11:33.36
you know, becomes attractive.
00:11:33.39\00:11:34.72
It's the new thing,
it's the cool thing,
00:11:34.76\00:11:36.12
it's the popular thing,
00:11:36.16\00:11:37.49
at least amongst
the young people,
00:11:37.53\00:11:39.73
so I started just
becoming a junkie, you know,
00:11:39.76\00:11:42.43
like a music
consumer to the max.
00:11:42.46\00:11:46.23
And, you know, I
didn't have money to buy,
00:11:46.27\00:11:47.80
I was just going in
and steal the stuff,
00:11:47.84\00:11:50.01
so as I saw being practiced
in my surroundings, you know,
00:11:50.04\00:11:54.74
theft, and beat downs,
selling drugs, partying,
00:11:54.78\00:11:59.28
I just got into
that at an early age.
00:11:59.31\00:12:00.92
You know, at 10 years old,
I was smoking, 10 years old,
00:12:00.95\00:12:04.12
I was drinking, 10 years
old, I was going to parties
00:12:04.15\00:12:07.26
and getting involved
with girls and all that stuff.
00:12:07.29\00:12:10.13
So by the time I'm 11, 12,
13, 14, going into high school,
00:12:10.16\00:12:15.93
I mean, that was
my lifestyle everyday.
00:12:15.96\00:12:17.90
Now curious.
00:12:17.93\00:12:19.27
When you were listening
00:12:19.30\00:12:20.64
and getting more heavily exposed
00:12:20.67\00:12:23.00
to the hip-hop culture
and all that comes with it,
00:12:23.04\00:12:25.14
and, you know, and we're saying
hip-hop culture for a reason,
00:12:25.17\00:12:28.58
because sometimes,
people just focus on the music
00:12:28.61\00:12:31.58
and the industry
00:12:31.61\00:12:32.95
but it's not just
music and industry,
00:12:32.98\00:12:34.35
it's a culture, it's
a complete lifestyle,
00:12:34.38\00:12:36.65
so we're being very
deliberate about that,
00:12:36.69\00:12:38.32
and we're going to
build on that in, you know,
00:12:38.35\00:12:40.22
further programs just so that
we can all be on the same page
00:12:40.26\00:12:42.89
and understand this.
00:12:42.92\00:12:44.26
But, you know, Lance,
when we're talking about that,
00:12:44.29\00:12:46.13
you're exposed to
this hip-hop culture now,
00:12:46.16\00:12:47.83
all these things are coming in,
00:12:47.86\00:12:49.33
one of the
things I'm curious about
00:12:49.36\00:12:50.70
from the artist's standpoint,
00:12:50.73\00:12:52.07
you just mentioned
all these hip-hop artists,
00:12:52.10\00:12:53.70
who are the ones that
appealed to you most and why?
00:12:53.74\00:12:56.57
There is a reason
I'm asking this question.
00:12:56.60\00:12:57.94
Yeah, I understand.
00:12:57.97\00:12:59.74
Obviously, what appealed to
me most was the intellectual,
00:12:59.77\00:13:05.31
you know, the knowledge,
00:13:05.35\00:13:06.85
not just the
guys they're rhyming,
00:13:06.88\00:13:09.02
and just, you know,
making words connect,
00:13:09.05\00:13:10.89
and just the party songs,
the club songs, but, you know,
00:13:10.92\00:13:14.36
the brothers that are
actually putting together
00:13:14.39\00:13:17.29
and constructing
complex, deep, intricate rhymes,
00:13:17.33\00:13:21.66
the word play, the syllables,
you know, the metaphors,
00:13:21.70\00:13:26.20
those kind of things,
00:13:26.23\00:13:27.57
that's what I
dedicated myself to,
00:13:27.60\00:13:31.07
like memorizing, and
studying the artists,
00:13:31.11\00:13:34.54
and seeing how
this is going to happen.
00:13:34.58\00:13:38.41
And we had a local,
you know, we had local MCs.
00:13:38.45\00:13:39.95
Yeah.
00:13:39.98\00:13:41.32
And so there was one,
00:13:41.35\00:13:42.68
he was like in the
next grade above me
00:13:42.72\00:13:44.62
and he was like
the local main MC,
00:13:44.65\00:13:47.16
so every school party,
00:13:47.19\00:13:49.52
dances, every
get-together, he was the MC,
00:13:49.56\00:13:54.23
so he became part of my crew
and so we used to get together,
00:13:54.26\00:13:59.37
you know,
party, listen to music,
00:13:59.40\00:14:01.27
and I would always
memorize the rhymes,
00:14:01.30\00:14:03.91
and at a certain
point, he used to, you know,
00:14:03.94\00:14:07.61
write rhymes and kind of try to,
00:14:07.64\00:14:10.01
not kind of teach, but
he challenged me one day.
00:14:10.05\00:14:12.11
He was like, "Listen, I
notice that you can memorize
00:14:12.15\00:14:15.02
all of these rhymes and
you can repeat 'em exactly,
00:14:15.05\00:14:17.79
you know,
precisely, with the delivery,
00:14:17.82\00:14:19.59
the timing, all these things,
00:14:19.62\00:14:21.09
why don't you try
writing your own rhymes?"
00:14:21.12\00:14:23.63
And I said, "I
never thought about that."
00:14:23.66\00:14:25.46
He said that's the
interesting challenge
00:14:25.49\00:14:27.76
and so there was
an event, a little,
00:14:27.80\00:14:31.37
I had an
altercation at my high school
00:14:31.40\00:14:34.37
and, you know, they
threatened to kick me out.
00:14:34.40\00:14:36.60
They wouldn't
let me come back in
00:14:36.64\00:14:37.97
without like a
psychological evaluation,
00:14:38.01\00:14:40.38
I had to go
through this counseling,
00:14:40.41\00:14:42.58
and kind of like
anger management,
00:14:42.61\00:14:43.95
before there was
anger management,
00:14:43.98\00:14:45.65
and at that moment,
00:14:45.68\00:14:48.35
that's that moment
when I was waiting to go
00:14:48.38\00:14:49.72
see the
psychiatrist or whoever it was,
00:14:49.75\00:14:51.55
the counselor, I wrote,
you know, my first rhymes.
00:14:51.59\00:14:55.32
And I wrote my first
rhymes, I mean, that was it.
00:14:55.36\00:15:00.46
Now when you
wrote your first rhyme,
00:15:00.50\00:15:02.10
you were realizing,
00:15:02.13\00:15:03.47
"All right, I
obviously have a talent."
00:15:03.50\00:15:04.87
Somebody challenged you. Yeah.
00:15:04.90\00:15:06.23
And that helped bring it out.
00:15:06.27\00:15:08.37
Were you at this
point when you wrote
00:15:08.40\00:15:09.74
your first rhyme
thinking, "You know what?
00:15:09.77\00:15:11.41
I want to take
this to the next level."
00:15:11.44\00:15:12.94
Like some people are just
content being the local MC.
00:15:12.97\00:15:16.44
Did you want to
bring it to the next level
00:15:16.48\00:15:17.81
and say, "Look, I want to
actually get into the industry,
00:15:17.85\00:15:19.35
I want to penetrate this thing."
00:15:19.38\00:15:20.82
I definitely considered it,
00:15:20.85\00:15:22.18
but I'm probably 14 at that time
00:15:22.22\00:15:25.09
and I'm always
anti-establishment,
00:15:25.12\00:15:27.86
I'm anti-authority
and all those things.
00:15:27.89\00:15:31.76
I'm naturally rebellious.
00:15:31.79\00:15:34.53
I just won't do something
00:15:34.56\00:15:35.90
just because
somebody told me to do it.
00:15:35.93\00:15:37.57
So in my mind I gravitated
00:15:37.60\00:15:39.57
what I considered
to be the underground
00:15:39.60\00:15:42.34
aspects of hip-hop.
00:15:42.37\00:15:44.44
Those people that, yeah,
00:15:44.47\00:15:45.81
they were maybe
putting out albums,
00:15:45.84\00:15:47.34
they were doing shows,
00:15:47.38\00:15:48.94
but they weren't
selling millions of records,
00:15:48.98\00:15:51.01
they weren't super-rich,
00:15:51.05\00:15:52.38
they still may be sleeping
at home with their parents,
00:15:52.41\00:15:55.15
but they're making
maybe videos and albums,
00:15:55.18\00:15:58.35
so I was more
gravitating, in my mind,
00:15:58.39\00:16:00.46
I considered the fact that
00:16:00.49\00:16:03.02
if I stay true to the craft
then I wouldn't become popular,
00:16:03.06\00:16:07.56
I would never be popular,
00:16:07.60\00:16:09.20
so I was perfectly content
with being an underground MC
00:16:09.23\00:16:13.00
and just make a career out
of crushing other suspect MCs
00:16:13.03\00:16:19.34
and spreading knowledge,
00:16:19.37\00:16:21.14
spreading what I
believe to be, you know,
00:16:21.18\00:16:23.14
the truth and what
people need to know.
00:16:23.18\00:16:24.51
So it sounds to me
like, in my experience,
00:16:24.55\00:16:26.98
I was looking more towards
the fun and the enjoyment
00:16:27.02\00:16:30.89
and a lot of the emotional
stimulus and all that stuff,
00:16:30.92\00:16:34.39
but you were caught up
from the hip-hop perspective
00:16:34.42\00:16:36.93
more on the intellectual,
the deep knowledge,
00:16:36.96\00:16:40.06
to the point that you
were not even aspiring
00:16:40.10\00:16:41.50
to go into the industry.
00:16:41.53\00:16:42.86
You were like, "Look, I
want to keep you underground"
00:16:42.90\00:16:44.23
almost to the
point, would you consider
00:16:44.27\00:16:45.60
that to go into the industry
00:16:45.63\00:16:46.97
was almost a stepping
stone to possibly selling out?
00:16:47.00\00:16:49.34
Oh, that to me,
industry was sell-out.
00:16:49.37\00:16:52.94
You know, major labels sell out.
00:16:52.97\00:16:56.04
To me, I couldn't,
because I was still,
00:16:56.08\00:16:57.71
I was in the streets,
00:16:57.75\00:16:59.08
I was, I was
selling drugs if I had to,
00:16:59.11\00:17:01.22
I was, you know,
committing acts of violence,
00:17:01.25\00:17:04.15
theft, I was completely corrupt.
00:17:04.19\00:17:07.09
So in my mind, if I
went into the industry,
00:17:07.12\00:17:09.66
I couldn't do
those things anymore,
00:17:09.69\00:17:11.06
I couldn't still be
street and be a professional.
00:17:11.09\00:17:15.96
I had to do one
or the other or else,
00:17:16.00\00:17:17.93
you know, they wouldn't mix,
they wouldn't be compatible.
00:17:17.97\00:17:21.44
So I would have to sell
out the street in my mind
00:17:21.47\00:17:24.71
as my rationale at, you
know, at 14 or whatever.
00:17:24.74\00:17:27.48
I had to sell out the
street and leave that life
00:17:27.51\00:17:29.98
in order to make this image
and this career, if you will.
00:17:30.01\00:17:33.78
So, you pretty much
brought us now up to the point
00:17:33.82\00:17:36.22
that you're at
least 14 or 15 years old,
00:17:36.25\00:17:39.09
attraction to hip-hop
culture and entertainment
00:17:39.12\00:17:42.59
and is that the
point where, you know,
00:17:42.62\00:17:44.86
you are now seeing yourself
not only with the skill set,
00:17:44.89\00:17:48.93
but you want to preserve it
00:17:48.96\00:17:50.30
and you're not getting caught up
00:17:50.33\00:17:51.67
into the pull of the
industry or anything like that?
00:17:51.70\00:17:53.44
At this stage in your
life, was there anybody,
00:17:53.47\00:17:56.10
grandmother, grandfather,
friend, enemy, anybody,
00:17:56.14\00:18:00.38
who was trying to have
00:18:00.41\00:18:02.11
any type of godly
influence in your life,
00:18:02.14\00:18:05.05
at this point in time?
00:18:05.08\00:18:06.41
Not that I can remember.
00:18:06.45\00:18:07.78
I mean, the only kind
of religious influence
00:18:07.82\00:18:09.85
I had at that time,
00:18:09.88\00:18:11.79
my mother started
getting into, like,
00:18:11.82\00:18:13.39
new age things and
that kind of stuff.
00:18:13.42\00:18:17.46
I really didn't listen to.
00:18:17.49\00:18:18.83
We didn't have those
conversations in my home.
00:18:18.86\00:18:22.43
There were a couple of
brothers that I mentioned,
00:18:22.46\00:18:24.63
the brothers that
came from New York,
00:18:24.67\00:18:26.53
one was associated
with the Zulu Nation,
00:18:26.57\00:18:28.84
which we'll be
talking about in short,
00:18:28.87\00:18:30.87
one was associated with
the Five-Percent Nation,
00:18:30.91\00:18:34.58
so, you know, they had an angle,
00:18:34.61\00:18:36.64
but it wasn't,
00:18:36.68\00:18:38.01
you know, it was
just kind of theories.
00:18:38.05\00:18:39.95
So I was garnering
a lot from the music,
00:18:39.98\00:18:42.98
you know, from the
messages coming through,
00:18:43.02\00:18:46.32
the philosophies coming through.
00:18:46.35\00:18:48.49
I didn't like to read,
00:18:48.52\00:18:50.19
so I pretty much
was just ingesting
00:18:50.23\00:18:52.39
what was coming
through the culture.
00:18:52.43\00:18:54.60
Now, some people, you know,
00:18:54.63\00:18:56.73
you mentioned
Five-Percenter or what have you,
00:18:56.77\00:18:59.43
there may be some of our viewers
00:18:59.47\00:19:00.94
who don't know
what Five-Percenter is
00:19:00.97\00:19:03.24
or any of these type of things,
00:19:03.27\00:19:04.61
could you explain
what that is real quick?
00:19:04.64\00:19:05.97
Yeah.
00:19:06.01\00:19:07.34
Basically, in short,
00:19:07.38\00:19:09.44
'cause I hope
we're going to dedicate
00:19:09.48\00:19:10.81
an entire program for this.
00:19:10.85\00:19:12.61
But the Five-Percent Nation
00:19:12.65\00:19:14.25
or the Nation of what they call,
00:19:14.28\00:19:15.62
the Gods and the
Earths came up in the '60s,
00:19:15.65\00:19:19.05
through one
individual named Clarence 13X,
00:19:19.09\00:19:22.52
and he was kind of,
00:19:22.56\00:19:25.19
he left the NOI or
the Nation of Islam,
00:19:25.23\00:19:27.83
if you heard about
Malcolm X or Elijah Muhammed,
00:19:27.86\00:19:29.93
currently Louis Farrakhan.
00:19:29.96\00:19:31.93
After Malcolm X
was assassinated,
00:19:31.97\00:19:33.54
he left Harlem Temple No. 7,
00:19:33.57\00:19:35.77
and he just like many others,
00:19:35.80\00:19:38.54
and he started to
craft his own world view,
00:19:38.57\00:19:42.14
if you will,
00:19:42.18\00:19:43.51
and it became known as
The Five-Percent Nation,
00:19:43.55\00:19:45.65
the Nation of the
Gods and the Earths
00:19:45.68\00:19:47.95
and he basically,
00:19:47.98\00:19:49.98
recruited young
men in the Harlem area
00:19:50.02\00:19:53.19
and it's essentially
obtaining a true knowledge
00:19:53.22\00:19:58.99
that they believe came
00:19:59.03\00:20:00.36
from an individual
named W.D. Fard Mohammad
00:20:00.40\00:20:03.40
that was the
mentor to Elijah Mohammad
00:20:03.43\00:20:06.30
and this secret knowledge
00:20:06.33\00:20:08.74
was come to be delivered
00:20:08.77\00:20:11.21
to the black man, if you will,
00:20:11.24\00:20:14.11
that he is the original
man, or essentially god.
00:20:14.14\00:20:18.31
They broke down these
numbers, there was a lot,
00:20:18.35\00:20:20.22
what they called
supreme mathematics
00:20:20.25\00:20:21.82
and the supreme alphabet
00:20:21.85\00:20:23.72
and there was the
idea that 85% of humanity,
00:20:23.75\00:20:29.02
and especially, the
individuals that came
00:20:29.06\00:20:31.86
from the African
nations over to the,
00:20:31.89\00:20:35.76
in the slave trade,
00:20:35.80\00:20:37.13
that 85% of the
world if you will,
00:20:37.17\00:20:38.97
or particularly the black man
00:20:39.00\00:20:41.24
were deaf, dumb,
and blind, ignorant.
00:20:41.27\00:20:44.37
They had no guidance.
00:20:44.41\00:20:45.74
They were
completely inept and inebriate,
00:20:45.77\00:20:48.68
intellectually
and morally corrupt,
00:20:48.71\00:20:51.51
and then they were
00:20:51.55\00:20:52.88
what was called the ten-percent.
00:20:52.91\00:20:54.25
The ten-percent
were those that knew
00:20:54.28\00:20:56.92
but that
deliberately kept the lie,
00:20:56.95\00:21:00.09
perpetuated the lie,
00:21:00.12\00:21:01.92
and the base lie
00:21:01.96\00:21:04.69
was that there
was a false religion,
00:21:04.73\00:21:10.40
what they call
trickenology or spook religion,
00:21:10.43\00:21:13.27
where eventually,
these corrupt individuals
00:21:13.30\00:21:15.87
through the ages
00:21:15.90\00:21:17.61
introduced a religion
00:21:17.64\00:21:19.04
that took the
mind away from self
00:21:19.07\00:21:21.44
and directed it
towards an unseen god
00:21:21.48\00:21:24.85
that you can't see,
that's in some place
00:21:24.88\00:21:26.98
that you can't
see, that you can't go,
00:21:27.02\00:21:29.18
and developed all of these laws
00:21:29.22\00:21:30.99
and this is where
the Bible came from
00:21:31.02\00:21:32.92
and Moses introduced this
00:21:32.95\00:21:34.72
and Mohammed of
Islam, of traditional Islam
00:21:34.76\00:21:38.69
developed these spook religions
00:21:38.73\00:21:40.13
where they're chasing a lie
00:21:40.16\00:21:43.73
and the truth was that
God is in you, God is you.
00:21:43.77\00:21:47.50
We are the sole controllers
00:21:47.54\00:21:49.20
and this kind of question
and answer to that method,
00:21:49.24\00:21:53.48
where you memorize
kind of a catechism
00:21:53.51\00:21:55.28
of question and answer
00:21:55.31\00:21:56.88
became the lessons,
became the core doctrine,
00:21:56.91\00:22:00.38
and you were ingratiated
to memorize these things
00:22:00.42\00:22:02.72
and it was just very intriguing
00:22:02.75\00:22:04.82
'cause there was a
lot of information,
00:22:04.85\00:22:06.19
a lot of "knowledge"
00:22:06.22\00:22:08.62
that never really
amounted to anything,
00:22:08.66\00:22:10.59
at least in my estimation,
00:22:10.63\00:22:11.96
it was very
circular in its reasoning,
00:22:11.99\00:22:14.06
but it was just
information, it was knowledge,
00:22:14.10\00:22:15.60
it was a position,
00:22:15.63\00:22:16.97
there was
something to stand for,
00:22:17.00\00:22:18.33
there was
something to be a part of,
00:22:18.37\00:22:20.00
and it gave an alternative
to the traditional story of,
00:22:20.04\00:22:24.34
like it was said though,
00:22:24.37\00:22:25.71
The white Jesus and, you know,
00:22:25.74\00:22:27.18
all of these things.
00:22:27.21\00:22:28.54
So that's it in a nutshell.
00:22:28.58\00:22:30.11
So then, at this point,
00:22:30.15\00:22:31.81
when you were
learning about this,
00:22:31.85\00:22:33.18
'cause I know now,
00:22:33.21\00:22:34.55
you don't
embrace these teachings.
00:22:34.58\00:22:35.92
Right.
00:22:35.95\00:22:37.29
But back then, I would imagine
00:22:37.32\00:22:38.65
this was really
intriguing to you.
00:22:38.69\00:22:40.02
Yeah. I mean, absolutely.
00:22:40.06\00:22:41.96
It captured an area of my mind
00:22:41.99\00:22:44.26
where I was seeking for answers.
00:22:44.29\00:22:46.39
At some point,
00:22:46.43\00:22:47.76
I was looking to make sense
00:22:47.80\00:22:49.70
and put the knowledge that I had
00:22:49.73\00:22:52.47
or the philosophies
that I began to develop
00:22:52.50\00:22:55.20
into a package
00:22:55.24\00:22:56.74
because I was, at
least in my approach,
00:22:56.77\00:23:00.71
I was anti-establishment,
anti-authority,
00:23:00.74\00:23:04.41
but I was very particular
00:23:04.45\00:23:05.91
and things had to
be very organized,
00:23:05.95\00:23:07.68
and thoughtful, and reasonable,
00:23:07.72\00:23:09.78
so I didn't want to
just kind of float around,
00:23:09.82\00:23:13.29
I wanted to know
what the answers were
00:23:13.32\00:23:16.62
and I wanted to
have something to deliver
00:23:16.66\00:23:18.79
that was tangible,
practical, not theoretical.
00:23:18.83\00:23:22.56
Okay, so then, at this
point now my question is,
00:23:22.60\00:23:25.00
what was your view of
Christians at that time?
00:23:25.03\00:23:27.77
I remember when I was kind
of engrossed into the industry,
00:23:27.80\00:23:30.84
I looked at Christians
like a bunch of happy people
00:23:30.87\00:23:32.77
that don't even
know why they're happy.
00:23:32.81\00:23:34.14
They are always emotional,
00:23:34.18\00:23:35.94
but they couldn't go
back to anything that was
00:23:35.98\00:23:37.75
"intellectual" and say,
00:23:37.78\00:23:39.11
"This is why I believe
what I believe" and so on.
00:23:39.15\00:23:40.88
I mean, what was
going on in your mind
00:23:40.92\00:23:42.25
and your view towards
church and Christianity?
00:23:42.28\00:23:43.62
Yeah.
00:23:43.65\00:23:44.99
Traditionally, at
least on my mother's side,
00:23:45.02\00:23:46.35
her family was
Catholic, Roman Catholic,
00:23:46.39\00:23:49.66
so in my mind, all
Christianity was Roman Catholic.
00:23:49.69\00:23:52.99
You know, that was Christianity.
00:23:53.03\00:23:54.73
So to me,
00:23:54.76\00:23:56.33
they were
corrupt and hypocrites.
00:23:56.36\00:23:59.57
And I didn't even
consider them happy people,
00:23:59.60\00:24:01.27
I just saw them
as just, you know,
00:24:01.30\00:24:03.94
confused and lost individuals
of no practical worth.
00:24:03.97\00:24:07.81
They had no
presence, if you will.
00:24:07.84\00:24:09.41
There was a church,
00:24:09.44\00:24:10.78
that you always
knew was a church.
00:24:10.81\00:24:12.55
But where were the people?
00:24:12.58\00:24:14.18
I never saw the
people, where did they go?
00:24:14.22\00:24:15.98
Where did they come from?
00:24:16.02\00:24:17.49
You know, so to
me, they were just,
00:24:17.52\00:24:19.25
you know, they
just took up space
00:24:19.29\00:24:20.62
and I considered them weak
00:24:20.66\00:24:22.19
as I began to now pursue
00:24:22.22\00:24:24.66
some of these
things aggressively,
00:24:24.69\00:24:26.13
I considered
Christians weak, double-minded,
00:24:26.16\00:24:29.10
unsure of themselves,
insecure, no answers,
00:24:29.13\00:24:33.40
something like a
detestable creature.
00:24:33.44\00:24:35.77
Now, now, this is
sharp, because you know what?
00:24:35.80\00:24:39.27
I believe firmly
00:24:39.31\00:24:41.31
that the thoughts
00:24:41.34\00:24:42.74
that you had are the
thoughts that many have today.
00:24:42.78\00:24:47.08
My question is when,
00:24:47.12\00:24:49.28
have Christians
ever approached you
00:24:49.32\00:24:50.65
when you had
this type of thinking?
00:24:50.69\00:24:52.55
Eventually, yeah.
00:24:52.59\00:24:53.92
I mean, as I get into
that transition point.
00:24:53.96\00:24:56.12
Yeah.
00:24:56.16\00:24:57.49
There's definitely,
we're going to talk about that.
00:24:57.53\00:24:59.16
Okay, so then you got to a point
00:24:59.19\00:25:00.53
where you see that,
00:25:00.56\00:25:01.90
you know, these
folks are coming in.
00:25:01.93\00:25:03.37
If you could just,
in a brief picture,
00:25:03.40\00:25:06.10
and then what we will
do is we'll expand on it
00:25:06.13\00:25:07.47
as we go further
in our next sessions,
00:25:07.50\00:25:10.31
what was like
your average response
00:25:10.34\00:25:13.71
to the Christians
00:25:13.74\00:25:15.08
who would come to
you at this time frame
00:25:15.11\00:25:16.58
when you were doing that?
00:25:16.61\00:25:17.95
And I'm asking these
questions for a reason.
00:25:17.98\00:25:19.31
Yeah.
00:25:19.35\00:25:20.68
Aggression, animosity,
00:25:20.72\00:25:22.05
a kind of a disgust, a disdain,
00:25:22.08\00:25:24.55
and, you know,
wouldn't give 'em an inch.
00:25:24.59\00:25:29.42
I would consider
them just pushovers
00:25:29.46\00:25:31.83
and they didn't know
what they were talking about,
00:25:31.86\00:25:33.63
I knew what I was talking about
00:25:33.66\00:25:35.36
and I'm just
going to bulldoze you
00:25:35.40\00:25:37.20
and steamroll you
intellectually or physically
00:25:37.23\00:25:41.34
if you want to take it there.
00:25:41.37\00:25:43.51
Now at this stage,
00:25:43.54\00:25:44.87
what were the books
that you were reading
00:25:44.91\00:25:46.24
that gave you this picture
00:25:46.27\00:25:47.61
because since you
were into intelligence,
00:25:47.64\00:25:50.35
you were more than
likely reading something,
00:25:50.38\00:25:51.81
so what were you
reading at that stage?
00:25:51.85\00:25:53.42
Well, that's the
thing, is I hated reading.
00:25:53.45\00:25:55.98
Why? I hated reading.
00:25:56.02\00:25:58.62
So it was really...
00:25:58.65\00:25:59.99
Listening? Yeah.
00:26:00.02\00:26:01.36
It was up to that
point where I didn't read.
00:26:01.39\00:26:02.72
I didn't really read, I mean,
I read some things as a child,
00:26:02.76\00:26:05.66
reading, you know,
different books here and there,
00:26:05.69\00:26:07.73
but I just didn't have
any passion for reading.
00:26:07.76\00:26:12.03
I would get
interested in something
00:26:12.07\00:26:13.40
and pick it up and read it,
00:26:13.44\00:26:14.77
but, you know,
00:26:14.80\00:26:16.14
I didn't even
go at it like that.
00:26:16.17\00:26:17.51
I was more of the mindset
00:26:17.54\00:26:19.47
that I don't need to
read some exterior book,
00:26:19.51\00:26:23.01
I need to observe
00:26:23.04\00:26:24.68
and master my surroundings
00:26:24.71\00:26:26.48
and deal with the physical,
00:26:26.51\00:26:28.45
you know, tangible level,
00:26:28.48\00:26:30.39
and you got
people studying books,
00:26:30.42\00:26:32.35
their heads in a
book and they don't know,
00:26:32.39\00:26:34.56
they don't know how
to govern themselves.
00:26:34.59\00:26:36.99
Would you say at
this stage in your life
00:26:37.03\00:26:39.29
that you were the reflector
of other men's thoughts?
00:26:39.33\00:26:41.76
Absolutely.
00:26:41.80\00:26:43.13
It has to be the truth
00:26:43.16\00:26:44.50
because you're
developing an image
00:26:44.53\00:26:47.14
that you're
getting from outside.
00:26:47.17\00:26:50.67
A whole
lifestyle, a whole culture
00:26:50.71\00:26:52.41
that I'm adopting
and accepting as it.
00:26:52.44\00:26:56.44
Where did it come from?
00:26:56.48\00:26:57.81
Who perpetuated it?
What are its origins?
00:26:57.85\00:27:00.32
And you can study that out
00:27:00.35\00:27:01.68
but still even the
people at the beginning
00:27:01.72\00:27:03.15
don't have an answer.
00:27:03.18\00:27:04.52
Right.
00:27:04.55\00:27:05.89
You know, it came from somewhere
00:27:05.92\00:27:07.26
and then now, once the
industry gets involved,
00:27:07.29\00:27:09.16
they're doing
all kinds of things
00:27:09.19\00:27:10.53
that people don't
have any control of,
00:27:10.56\00:27:11.99
so things are
just getting mixed,
00:27:12.03\00:27:13.36
and mashed, and mingled,
00:27:13.40\00:27:14.73
and amalgamated,
into this package
00:27:14.76\00:27:17.67
that they are
offering the consumer.
00:27:17.70\00:27:19.50
And I was a
consumer for the most part.
00:27:19.53\00:27:22.44
You know, I don't know about you
00:27:22.47\00:27:24.24
but as I listen to brother Lance
00:27:24.27\00:27:25.71
share these things,
00:27:25.74\00:27:27.08
I know that it
is very convincing
00:27:27.11\00:27:28.98
and it's to the
point that you wonder,
00:27:29.01\00:27:30.91
how do you come out of this?
00:27:30.95\00:27:32.58
But I'm trusting
that in our next episode,
00:27:32.61\00:27:35.02
we're going to get to hear about
00:27:35.05\00:27:36.38
how the Lord was
able to bring him
00:27:36.42\00:27:37.75
out of this type of thinking
00:27:37.79\00:27:39.12
into the present understanding
of his truth at this time.
00:27:39.15\00:27:41.76
And, Lance, I
believe that a lot of people
00:27:41.79\00:27:43.32
are going
through similar struggles
00:27:43.36\00:27:44.79
like what you were
going through at that time,
00:27:44.83\00:27:46.23
so again, I
really appreciate you
00:27:46.26\00:27:47.60
sharing that with us, brother.
00:27:47.63\00:27:48.96
Well, our time is up.
00:27:49.00\00:27:50.33
We want to thank you all
for joining us here at TKS
00:27:50.37\00:27:51.87
and we want you to come back
and this time, invite a friend,
00:27:51.90\00:27:54.30
so that hopefully,
00:27:54.34\00:27:55.67
we can all enjoy
the blessings together.
00:27:55.70\00:27:57.37
Until next time,
remember Proverbs 2:6,
00:27:57.41\00:28:00.31
that it's the
Lord that gives wisdom
00:28:00.34\00:28:01.81
and out of His mouth
00:28:01.84\00:28:03.18
comes knowledge
and understanding.
00:28:03.21\00:28:04.81