I want to spend my life,
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I want to spend my life,
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I want to spend my
life, bending broken,
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I want to spend my life.
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Hello and welcome to
another 3ABN Today Live.
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Well, thank you for joining
us as you do each and every day.
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I'm privileged to be here
with my beautiful wife, Yvonne.
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Oh, I'm so happy
to be here with you.
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Well, you've been gone two
or three days and I missed you.
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I know.
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Did you know that?
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I know, I missed you too.
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And so, you
were in the ministry.
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I was.
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Oh, that's great.
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We're going to hear
about that sometime.
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Not tonight, but we're going
to hear about that another time.
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So, we're here with some of
our favorite people in all the
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world.
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we want to start with Mike.
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And Michael,
you've been coming here...
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Long time.
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Okay, that's a good
way to say it, a long time.
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Pastor Kelly,
you've been coming here.
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Yep, blessed.
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Yeah, and so, we're
glad that you're here.
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I want you to introduce our
other guests tonight who are
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now our brothers and sisters.
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That's right.
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They always have been.
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We just got to
meet them tonight.
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Yeah.
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You know, we got
Daniel and Kirsten, and so...
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Sure.
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I want to just thank you
guys again, because honestly, 15
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years ago when we were just
starting out, you know, nobody
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wanted to talk about
this topic or touch it.
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And you know what, Yvonne?
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You were praying over us.
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You just recorded our
testimonies, and you said, I
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believe that the Holy Spirit
has more to say on this topic.
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And through you and through
3ABN, we've done, I bet, at
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least 100 different 30-minute
programs and interviews.
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Praise the Lord.
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Yeah.
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there and our message out there.
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And because of your
credibility, it's really opened
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a lot of doors that otherwise
would not have been opened for
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us.
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And what topic is it?
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Praise the Lord.
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It's about...
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For our audience today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Thank you.
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Sexual integrity.
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And we started off, you know,
basically talking about the ex
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-LGBT message, because all
of my colleagues and I had come
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from LGBT lives.
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I was transgender until I was
20, and then from 20 to 40, I
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was in the gay culture,
sexually addicted, you know,
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all that kind of stuff.
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So, you know, of course, in a
church setting, that's really a
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little off-putting.
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But our ministry, I believe, is
really vital because what we do
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is we talk about sexuality
in a way that's biblical, that's
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redemptive, and in a way that I
believe is kind of the elephant
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in the room that really nobody
is comfortable to talk about.
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So we begin those
conversations, you know, in
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churches, schools, academies,
university, any way that we're
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invited.
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Even with children, because
you did a program for us with
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children.
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Thank you.
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I was on the phone with you.
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We were just catching up, and
you're like, okay, okay, yeah,
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we need a program on
this, and boom, then it happens.
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Praise the Lord.
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Be real, be true, be you.
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Be you.
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That's right.
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Amen.
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ministries to...
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To coming together ministries.
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And the reason why is
coming out ministries is really
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connected to the LGBT thing.
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And our ministry thought
that just like the words that we
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heard in Christianity is that
homosexuality was something of
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its own.
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I was never gay.
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But everything that you said
is really victory over sin and
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righteousness by faith.
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So not only were their eyes
open, but our eyes were, too.
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And we realized that we weren't
so separate from, you know, the
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issues and that, you
know, we were really all coming
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together.
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And again, you know, Ron,
you were the one that basically
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spearheaded that meeting.
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And we decided, okay, it's time
to change the ministry name.
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And Hector, that's why
we invited you to be with us
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tonight.
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identity.
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And of course, you know, Daniel
and Kirsten, you know, they're
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this beautiful, young, vibrant,
they're the new generation, you
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know.
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picking up the pieces
and moving us forward.
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So it's really a joy to
have them with us as well.
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That's great.
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Go ahead.
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here with us and the stories
that you have of victory.
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That's really key.
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We love your ministry because
you look at, you know, at
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victory over sin.
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And like you said,
it's not just homosexuality.
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It's just it's sin across
the board because our default
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setting is sin.
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Right.
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for the first time, I'm
assuming when you came out and
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said, you know, God can give
us victory over any sin in our
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life, including LGBTQ, whatever
it is, that 100 percent of
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every Christian, every
Adventist church member said,
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praise the Lord,
we're behind you.
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How am I doing?
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We were hoping that
it would be that way.
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But unfortunately, there's
there's still these these
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divisions that are
still in the church culture.
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And one of the original
ones was God hates gays.
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Gays can't change.
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And, you know, therefore we're
reprobates and there's no hope
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for us.
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church culture
because nobody had the answer.
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And I thought, OK,
I guess I'm doomed.
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Now coming back into church
culture, that is still alive
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and well, unfortunately,
and it is fading some.
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There's a lot of cultural
differences that Daniel, you
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know, and Hector,
you can also address.
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But now what's happening is
it's the pendulum has swung the
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other way.
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And because gays can't can't
change, that's why God loves
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them.
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And so it's hate speech.
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If you tell someone
that they can change.
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And so our ministry has
been attacked from all sides and
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from inside the church,
from outside the church.
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And yeah, God has
really sustained us.
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And yeah, it's been
many, many different trials and
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temptations.
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how you got involved in this
because you have passed church
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and, you know, you know,
this very controversial subject.
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So what got you on board?
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What got me involved was
the awareness that there were
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problems that
weren't being addressed.
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And when I watched the
presentations by what was then
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coming out ministries,
this is the gospel in action.
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I mean, these people are loving.
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They're not condemning.
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They are willing
to address the issues.
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They're tasteful.
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And their testimonies are
the tip of the spear for the
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gospel, I think, in
a sexualized culture.
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And as I watch those
testimonies and listen to them,
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it's like, like 3ABN.
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Let me give them a
little bit of a platform.
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Let me encourage them.
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And besides, you've got
all these things to get talked
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about in secret that
nobody wants to talk about.
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And there's just a lot of
people waiting for somebody to
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say, let's talk about this.
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And watching their
persons, seeing their victories.
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It's like, isn't this the
church's job to help people
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find freedom?
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So, yeah, we started several
years ago when they had Journey
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Interrupted, which was one
of their first documentary-type
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films.
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We debuted it in the
Village Church, and it was the
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beginning of a
wonderful journey.
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And I'm just so proud of
this organization, how they can
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endure a lot of suffering, like
Michael said, comes from one
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side in one phase, comes from
another side in another phase.
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But they're staying
true, staying sweet, staying
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beautiful.
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You know what's interesting,
I didn't realize until just now,
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but Ron, you're the other half
that, you know, you believed in
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us.
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with your reaction as well as
with your reaction, because you
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did believe in it, and you
moved this issue forward in
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your church.
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for our ministry.
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We wouldn't be here today
if it wasn't for not only your
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leadership, but I think
also your insight to allow us to
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have access to your pulpit,
you know, which also goes around
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the world, just
like your ministry.
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So it's like a little
grateful club right now for me.
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Well, it's a beautiful thing
to be a part of something God is
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doing.
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And, you know, if God's doing
it, you know it's going to be
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resisted somewhere, but
just like one of the plaques you
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have in your foyer here called
basically Keep On It, Your Life
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Task out there.
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I just took a picture of it.
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If it's worth doing,
it'll be resisted, but keep on.
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So we've actually had a
conference that we've been
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doing.
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you, you know, Pastor Kelly.
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It has, I think it has
built the momentum of what I've
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always wanted our ministry to
be, not only to have an office,
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which we do now in Berrien
Springs, Michigan, which that's
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such a huge hallelujah.
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I remember when this lady
wanted to buy the building, we
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said, we don't have any money,
and she goes all over the place
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and I go, oh great, we
still don't have any money, and
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within three months we had
raised the money to actually
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purchase this building and now
we have, you know, salaries and
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full -time people and a
building and I mean, it's
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really been amazing, you know,
how God has really established
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us and I think moved us
into the next generation.
00:10:02.23\00:10:04.77
Well, he's building a team
and it's multi-generational and
00:10:05.30\00:10:08.84
that only expands
the power of the witness.
00:10:08.84\00:10:10.74
Amen.
00:10:11.87\00:10:12.41
Tell us a bit of your story,
Daniel and Kirsten, because you
00:10:13.07\00:10:17.51
guys have a powerful testimony.
00:10:17.51\00:10:20.48
Let's start with you, Kirsten.
00:10:20.82\00:10:22.08
Yeah, so I was born and raised
in the Adventist Church and I
00:10:22.28\00:10:28.82
also attended an Adventist
school from kindergarten to
00:10:28.82\00:10:33.46
10th grade.
00:10:33.46\00:10:34.10
I was raised by a single
mother, but my dad, he would be
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showing his love as much as
he could, so he would like call
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and because my parents were
separated, I would go with my
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dad over the weekend, but I
would always remember when I
00:10:52.88\00:10:57.35
would be dropped off at my
mother's that I would feel this
00:10:57.35\00:11:01.36
deep sadness.
00:11:01.36\00:11:02.56
So as a little girl,
six, seven years old.
00:11:02.82\00:11:05.49
Leaving your dad to
go back to your mom?
00:11:05.49\00:11:07.40
Correct, yes.
00:11:07.40\00:11:08.73
And it felt like empty,
like I wanted my parents to be
00:11:09.03\00:11:13.17
together, I wanted them, you
know, that happy, perfect home
00:11:13.17\00:11:19.17
of having my
parents both together.
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.34
But then fast forward
that longiness of wanting to be
00:11:23.04\00:11:30.12
attached more with my father,
the affirmation and attention,
00:11:30.12\00:11:35.16
and I was projecting that
in romantic relationships.
00:11:35.16\00:11:39.29
So then once I was in college,
those were my deep dark years.
00:11:40.16\00:11:47.17
So I did fall into pre-marital
sex, and I never thought I
00:11:47.60\00:11:53.01
would find myself in
that because I knew better.
00:11:53.01\00:11:56.91
I was raised in the church,
school, that I should preserve
00:11:57.11\00:12:01.45
that special gift that
God ordains in marriage.
00:12:01.45\00:12:04.72
And in those relationships
is where I was getting, I guess,
00:12:05.92\00:12:10.56
that temporal feeling of
affirmation, of attention, and
00:12:10.66\00:12:14.56
attention seeking of what
I was missing with my father.
00:12:15.50\00:12:19.93
But it was through God's divine
power that he severed that
00:12:20.87\00:12:26.54
relationship and that's where I
began my wilderness experience.
00:12:26.54\00:12:31.48
And it was hard, you know,
after a breakup, but that's
00:12:31.48\00:12:37.82
where I was finally able to
say, wow, I'm single, I don't
00:12:37.82\00:12:41.76
need a man, but is that
satisfaction when you have a
00:12:41.76\00:12:46.03
deep loving relationship with
God that he does fill you, he
00:12:46.03\00:12:52.13
gives you purpose, he gives
you life, and he gives you peace
00:12:52.13\00:12:55.17
that surpasses
all understanding.
00:12:55.17\00:12:56.87
And I did find
my identity in him.
00:12:57.67\00:13:01.64
So that was amazing.
00:13:02.11\00:13:05.31
And I remember I told, as I go,
as a goal for myself, I said I
00:13:06.68\00:13:13.46
wouldn't court anyone until
2024, because for eight years
00:13:13.46\00:13:18.46
of my life, I was
engaging in sexual activity.
00:13:18.46\00:13:21.80
And...
00:13:23.43\00:13:26.17
For the viewers to understand,
not like you were hooking up or
00:13:26.74\00:13:29.77
anything, but you were in
a committed relationship as a
00:13:29.77\00:13:33.71
Christian woman and still
found yourself compromised.
00:13:33.71\00:13:37.08
Correct.
00:13:37.45\00:13:37.88
Yeah.
00:13:38.25\00:13:43.05
I'm happy with my friends, my
family, my career, then that's
00:13:43.22\00:13:47.92
where then now my husband,
that's how we were connecting.
00:13:47.92\00:13:55.03
Yes.
00:13:55.03\00:13:55.60
There's so many parts to their
story, and I know you don't
00:13:57.43\00:14:00.24
have time, but what I really
love is how you met Daniel and
00:14:00.24\00:14:04.24
he inspired you, you know,
for purity, but you weren't even
00:14:04.24\00:14:08.58
friends, you just were
acquaintances, and then years
00:14:08.58\00:14:11.01
later, something
different happened.
00:14:11.01\00:14:12.35
Can you just talk
about the Goliath wall?
00:14:12.65\00:14:14.48
Because I just love that story.
00:14:14.52\00:14:15.58
Yes.
00:14:16.75\00:14:21.39
University, and I moved out
of state to attend, and I didn't
00:14:21.39\00:14:26.09
know anyone, and this
was before my wilderness
00:14:26.09\00:14:30.27
experience, but it was also
Delora, like, speaking to me,
00:14:30.27\00:14:35.07
like, you have to
let this relationship go.
00:14:35.14\00:14:36.87
we were in the same class
because we were studying for
00:14:39.64\00:14:42.38
social work, and there was this
artist there on campus, and I
00:14:42.38\00:14:48.58
was like, wow, I want to attend
this concert, but I was always
00:14:48.58\00:14:53.02
labeled as a shy, quiet girl,
and I guess hourly is like good
00:14:53.02\00:14:57.83
girl, like an angel, but
then, you know, my deep sins was
00:14:57.83\00:15:05.47
engaging in sexual activity,
but so I went to this concert
00:15:05.47\00:15:10.84
and I didn't know anyone, and
then I see Daniel, and I just
00:15:10.84\00:15:17.11
knew him because we had classes
together, but he says that he
00:15:17.11\00:15:23.59
never saw me.
00:15:23.59\00:15:25.05
I was really focused on
in my school, to be honest.
00:15:26.15\00:15:28.69
So I saw her there.
00:15:29.39\00:15:30.63
It was actually the day after
my birthday in 2019 and I felt
00:15:30.63\00:15:35.33
impressed to share with
her my testimony, which we can
00:15:35.33\00:15:37.67
probably get into the details
of how God called me out of the
00:15:37.67\00:15:41.24
homosexual lifestyle, as well
as other sins that the devil
00:15:41.24\00:15:45.91
really trapped me in and
the temporary pleasures of the
00:15:45.91\00:15:48.84
world as well.
00:15:48.84\00:15:49.81
And so I shared with her
my testimony and it was a very
00:15:50.05\00:15:54.18
good time.
00:15:54.18\00:15:59.15
people and they had like
lottery tickets or something to
00:15:59.15\00:16:03.49
win a jacket.
00:16:03.49\00:16:04.59
And as I was sharing my
testimony, and as I was sharing
00:16:04.63\00:16:08.30
my testimony, they called
my name to win the jacket and I
00:16:08.30\00:16:12.60
felt like that was God like
affirming like you're supposed
00:16:12.60\00:16:15.74
to be doing this right
now and I'm like, okay, God.
00:16:15.74\00:16:17.97
And I wasn't interested
in her then and there.
00:16:18.64\00:16:20.84
I was just wanting
to share my testimony.
00:16:20.88\00:16:22.98
And at the end of that concert,
I was looking into her eyes and
00:16:23.68\00:16:26.85
I found myself drawn to her
and this thought crossed my mind
00:16:26.85\00:16:30.75
and it was like, this is
gonna be your future wife.
00:16:30.75\00:16:32.92
And I rebuked that thought
because I was not ready to
00:16:33.29\00:16:36.59
enter into a relationship.
00:16:36.59\00:16:37.89
I had literally just left the
homosexual lifestyle and I was
00:16:38.39\00:16:42.46
just trying to follow
what God had in store for me.
00:16:42.46\00:16:45.13
And he called me to a 12
step program to work on the lust
00:16:45.13\00:16:51.04
addiction.
00:16:51.04\00:16:51.61
And he also led me to a men's
group as well in a church in
00:16:52.51\00:16:56.61
the Adventist Church.
00:16:56.61\00:16:57.41
And I started to feel loved
and embraced by other men, other
00:16:58.05\00:17:02.32
godly men.
00:17:02.32\00:17:03.18
And actually, I was pretty
resistant to join the group.
00:17:03.49\00:17:05.79
There was like some stereotypes
about masculinity that was a
00:17:06.89\00:17:10.39
turn off to me.
00:17:10.39\00:17:11.23
And I remember I was cleaning
the dishes and telling God how
00:17:11.66\00:17:14.63
I didn't want to
join this men's group.
00:17:14.63\00:17:16.20
And I'm like, they just want
to like chop wood and just be so
00:17:16.60\00:17:20.40
like something that
I felt like I wasn't.
00:17:20.40\00:17:22.94
And I was
complaining to the Lord.
00:17:23.27\00:17:24.77
And then the Holy Spirit
lovingly, gently, but directly
00:17:25.34\00:17:28.71
humbled me and was like, you
know, the men that are there,
00:17:28.71\00:17:32.51
they're not perfect.
00:17:32.78\00:17:33.88
They're not perfect.
00:17:33.98\00:17:34.72
But, you know, you're
not a perfect man either.
00:17:35.22\00:17:37.09
And I just felt like he checked
me and encouraged me to just
00:17:37.82\00:17:42.79
give it a try.
00:17:42.79\00:17:43.99
And through those connections
and intimacy, I was learning to
00:17:43.99\00:17:47.86
be secure with myself because I
had a lot of insecurities about
00:17:47.86\00:17:51.63
myself.
00:17:51.63\00:17:52.37
I had a lot of
lies that I believed.
00:17:52.50\00:17:53.74
I thought that everything
about me was because I was gay.
00:17:54.30\00:17:56.60
So I thought, you know, I'm
intelligent because I'm gay.
00:17:56.74\00:17:59.21
I can communicate
well because I'm gay.
00:17:59.24\00:18:00.88
I'm attractive because I'm gay.
00:18:00.91\00:18:02.21
And I don't honestly don't
even know where I learned those
00:18:02.71\00:18:05.28
things from.
00:18:05.28\00:18:05.61
That's the mantra.
00:18:05.78\00:18:06.75
You know,
everything that you do is gay.
00:18:07.32\00:18:08.98
So, oh, if you notice the
pretty birds in the sky, oh,
00:18:09.25\00:18:11.45
that's gay.
00:18:11.45\00:18:14.26
oh, that's gay.
00:18:14.39\00:18:15.09
So you're so in...
00:18:15.72\00:18:17.69
What's the word for it?
00:18:17.69\00:18:18.79
It's in you.
00:18:18.99\00:18:19.76
It's a part of you.
00:18:19.86\00:18:20.83
So everything that you
are is because you're gay.
00:18:21.13\00:18:23.33
So it's really difficult,
I think, to break that, that
00:18:23.50\00:18:26.33
whole cycle.
00:18:26.33\00:18:27.34
And God was bringing
you on that journey as well.
00:18:27.44\00:18:29.50
But let's get back to Kirsten
for a second, because what was
00:18:30.17\00:18:34.24
really powerful is that they
never saw each other again for
00:18:34.24\00:18:37.08
at least a year or
two that I know of.
00:18:37.08\00:18:38.78
About three and
a half years, yes.
00:18:38.78\00:18:41.58
And see, this is what blows my
mind is Kirsten, that inspired
00:18:41.58\00:18:45.15
you.
00:18:45.15\00:18:48.32
with Daniel?
00:18:48.32\00:18:48.82
Yes.
00:18:48.99\00:18:49.52
So then I approach him.
00:18:49.56\00:18:52.36
I say, hey, my name is Kirsten.
00:18:52.63\00:18:54.56
Do you remember me?
00:18:54.60\00:18:55.70
We have classes together.
00:18:55.83\00:18:57.40
He said no, but then we just
continued to go to the concert.
00:18:57.57\00:19:02.60
And he did share with me that
he did leave his relationship.
00:19:02.77\00:19:07.51
And that inspired me because I
was thinking if the Lord really
00:19:07.51\00:19:14.92
was able to, you know, empower
him and he was able through his
00:19:14.92\00:19:19.55
freedom of choice, like leave
that relationship behind, then
00:19:19.55\00:19:23.46
I can also.
00:19:23.46\00:19:24.59
And that so that was
like a wake up call for me.
00:19:25.99\00:19:29.50
And yeah, like after that
concert, like we didn't see
00:19:29.73\00:19:34.84
each other until three years.
00:19:34.84\00:19:36.50
And wasn't it wasn't that when
you broke it off with the guy
00:19:36.50\00:19:39.47
you were seeing and you
determined that you weren't
00:19:39.47\00:19:41.41
going to date?
00:19:41.41\00:19:42.24
No, but that was a
seed that the Lord was.
00:19:42.38\00:19:44.88
OK.
00:19:44.88\00:19:45.15
Yeah.
00:19:45.41\00:19:45.78
Putting in me.
00:19:45.98\00:19:46.78
Yeah.
00:19:47.32\00:19:54.59
you didn't get.
00:19:54.59\00:19:55.49
You were seeking it from
relationships that you didn't
00:19:56.36\00:19:58.96
get from your dad.
00:19:58.96\00:20:00.06
And I think it's
really important for people.
00:20:00.90\00:20:03.77
This is an aside, but fathers
are so important and the role
00:20:03.77\00:20:08.84
that fathers play in their
children's lives is it cannot
00:20:08.84\00:20:12.94
be underestimated.
00:20:12.94\00:20:15.08
A godly man being a
good dad is just it can't be
00:20:15.31\00:20:19.61
underestimated.
00:20:19.61\00:20:20.22
So you were looking for that.
00:20:20.52\00:20:22.12
Daniel, was your dad, did you
have an attachment issue with
00:20:22.32\00:20:25.92
your dad?
00:20:25.92\00:20:26.42
I would say so.
00:20:26.72\00:20:27.92
I looked up to him and I also
didn't feel like I could relate
00:20:27.92\00:20:32.69
to him in ways.
00:20:32.69\00:20:33.66
So my father is now retired,
but he was in the military.
00:20:33.90\00:20:37.73
And so also being Hispanic,
living in the South with a lot
00:20:38.50\00:20:42.20
of, I guess, stereotypical
expectations of young boys and
00:20:42.20\00:20:46.68
men, especially
when I was growing up.
00:20:46.68\00:20:48.28
So being into sports, you know,
talking about girls, that sort
00:20:48.91\00:20:54.25
of thing, being more
rough around the edges, play
00:20:54.25\00:20:56.89
fighting, all of that.
00:20:56.89\00:20:57.85
I just didn't feel
like I could relate to that.
00:20:57.85\00:21:00.49
And at times my family
would get on to me about my
00:21:00.49\00:21:03.99
mannerisms, the way that
I would walk, the way that I
00:21:03.99\00:21:06.53
would talk.
00:21:06.53\00:21:09.86
about me was off,
that it wasn't acceptable.
00:21:09.86\00:21:12.40
So that's, I think, where
the root of the insecurity was
00:21:12.97\00:21:15.50
coming from.
00:21:15.50\00:21:16.44
And not having my father there
in the environment I was in,
00:21:16.74\00:21:20.18
the examples of other
men were not very positive.
00:21:20.44\00:21:24.58
From my perspective as a young
boy, it just was a lot of the
00:21:24.58\00:21:30.52
men would objectify women, or
I just felt too emotional as a
00:21:30.52\00:21:35.62
kid.
00:21:35.62\00:21:39.09
emotions.
00:21:39.09\00:21:39.76
And it just made me feel like I
could relate more to the woman.
00:21:40.36\00:21:43.47
So I grew up with a mom, a
sister, my grandmother, aunts.
00:21:43.70\00:21:48.37
So there was a lot of feminine
energy, if you will, in my
00:21:48.50\00:21:51.61
family.
00:21:51.61\00:21:55.84
from, you know,
touching more so with my mom.
00:21:55.84\00:21:58.31
And we see that there's a lot
of homosexual men and as well
00:21:59.05\00:22:02.85
as women that they can detach
from their same sex parent,
00:22:02.85\00:22:06.86
because that is part of a
developmental milestone that a
00:22:06.92\00:22:10.13
lot of children need.
00:22:10.13\00:22:11.19
I'm not saying that's the
reason why people are gay, but
00:22:11.33\00:22:13.63
that seems to be a common theme
in our identity to development
00:22:13.63\00:22:17.37
that gets missed with
those that experience LGBTQ
00:22:17.37\00:22:20.87
identification and feelings.
00:22:22.14\00:22:23.51
So.
00:22:23.51\00:22:24.37
So at what point did the
switch go off for you two or on?
00:22:24.81\00:22:31.05
So I would say in GYC 2022, so
it would have been about three
00:22:33.68\00:22:38.42
years and a half or so where
I was invited to speak and share
00:22:38.42\00:22:42.49
my testimony with
coming out ministries.
00:22:42.49\00:22:44.83
Well, can we tell
that part a little bit?
00:22:44.93\00:22:46.53
Yeah, please.
00:22:46.53\00:22:49.56
Oh, he was actually in my house.
00:22:49.56\00:22:51.27
And I was asked to speak to
these boys about pornography
00:22:51.27\00:22:54.24
addiction.
00:22:54.24\00:22:54.70
And Daniel wouldn't even look
at me, speak to me, nothing to
00:22:55.50\00:22:58.47
me.
00:22:58.47\00:23:01.11
I'm like, OK, you know,
so he never spoke to me ever.
00:23:01.24\00:23:04.38
But I knew you from 15 until
you called me on that one day
00:23:04.51\00:23:08.55
that was in what, 2022?
00:23:08.55\00:23:10.15
Around there.
00:23:11.29\00:23:11.82
Yeah.
00:23:11.95\00:23:12.22
Yeah.
00:23:12.22\00:23:14.39
Yeah.
00:23:14.59\00:23:17.53
because I met
Michael when I was 15.
00:23:17.53\00:23:19.66
I mean, I didn't
know what to say.
00:23:19.66\00:23:20.73
But at this point in my
life, the Lord was calling me to
00:23:21.16\00:23:23.26
share my
testimony more publicly.
00:23:23.26\00:23:24.87
At first, I was doing more
one on one as the Holy Spirit
00:23:25.07\00:23:27.40
impressed me.
00:23:27.40\00:23:28.40
And then my pastor, my church
mentioned that they were going
00:23:28.67\00:23:33.01
to have sharing
their testimony night.
00:23:33.01\00:23:34.81
And so I felt impressed that
I needed to share, but I just
00:23:35.68\00:23:39.05
waited.
00:23:39.05\00:23:40.38
I don't know.
00:23:40.48\00:23:42.28
And I don't want I
don't know what to say.
00:23:42.68\00:23:44.95
So I waited until
like, I think Sunday.
00:23:45.52\00:23:48.99
And you need a
confirmation by Monday.
00:23:48.99\00:23:50.86
And I'm like, surely all
the spots have been taken.
00:23:50.96\00:23:52.76
So when I called my pastor,
he said there was one spot left.
00:23:52.86\00:23:56.30
So I knew, OK, all right,
Lord, you want me to share.
00:23:56.30\00:24:00.17
So I felt like I needed support.
00:24:01.00\00:24:03.07
And I don't hear a lot of
people talk about these types
00:24:03.14\00:24:05.94
of vulnerable stories or they
get really general and people
00:24:05.94\00:24:09.71
really don't know
what they went through.
00:24:09.71\00:24:12.25
And so I called up Michael
Carducci and I asked him, I
00:24:12.51\00:24:16.12
said, So can God speak to
someone who's actively in the
00:24:16.12\00:24:20.72
homosexual lifestyle?
00:24:20.72\00:24:21.86
Such a great question.
00:24:22.76\00:24:23.89
I said, of course, you know,
that's how God spoke to me.
00:24:24.33\00:24:26.66
And so then you
proceeded to tell me your story.
00:24:26.86\00:24:28.80
You were already living on
your own, you know, after you've
00:24:28.86\00:24:32.00
been living with your boyfriend
and in student housing at this
00:24:32.00\00:24:35.50
Christian university.
00:24:35.50\00:24:36.50
I still don't understand that
one, but it's an amazing part
00:24:36.94\00:24:39.87
of your story.
00:24:39.87\00:24:43.24
testimony because you had
a trip in that area already.
00:24:43.24\00:24:46.98
So the Lord was lining
everything up, as well as my
00:24:46.98\00:24:49.92
dad and my sister.
00:24:49.92\00:24:51.09
My dad was visiting my
sister in that area, too.
00:24:51.29\00:24:53.62
So they were able to see
me share for the first time.
00:24:53.62\00:24:56.52
Michael was there
and his dad was crying.
00:24:56.76\00:24:58.76
So it was a very powerful
experience of just following
00:24:59.26\00:25:04.13
the path that God
had outlined for me.
00:25:04.13\00:25:06.53
And a month later, we were
recording for Strategies for
00:25:07.17\00:25:09.94
Strongholds, which was a
program that you, you know,
00:25:09.94\00:25:12.37
helped us to to produce.
00:25:12.44\00:25:14.14
Yeah.
00:25:15.01\00:25:16.58
Do you remember what you said
when we were recording all of
00:25:16.81\00:25:19.08
the 24 testimonies and
interviews that were going to
00:25:19.08\00:25:22.35
make his the first?
00:25:22.35\00:25:23.55
You came to me and says, this
one is the one we're going to
00:25:23.62\00:25:25.45
make first.
00:25:25.45\00:25:26.05
Yeah.
00:25:26.52\00:25:30.33
where he had me, where I was.
00:25:30.33\00:25:31.96
I mean, to this, you know,
it's such a I'm like dumbfounded
00:25:32.09\00:25:35.53
with the grace of God and
his love and his power to really
00:25:35.53\00:25:38.83
transform.
00:25:38.83\00:25:39.57
But to answer your question,
it wasn't necessarily a switch.
00:25:40.04\00:25:42.80
I guess there was an obsession
that was lifted when I was
00:25:43.54\00:25:47.58
going through 12 step
and experiencing restoration
00:25:47.58\00:25:50.28
through because I was
also addicted to pornography.
00:25:51.28\00:25:53.68
It was engaging in
masturbation as well.
00:25:53.78\00:25:55.78
And I didn't know
how to be freed from it.
00:25:56.18\00:25:58.19
I had been exposed to
poor when I was eight.
00:25:58.19\00:26:00.36
And I just I would go
to that as a way to cope.
00:26:00.99\00:26:04.06
And it just quickly became
a really bad habit and to the
00:26:04.13\00:26:07.00
point where I
just couldn't stop.
00:26:07.00\00:26:08.20
So going through that program
and learning the principles of
00:26:08.20\00:26:12.93
restoration and surrender,
I started to not see men in a
00:26:12.93\00:26:17.97
sexualized way.
00:26:17.97\00:26:19.17
And I would still feel a polar
temptation, but I was learning
00:26:19.87\00:26:23.68
to say no and just
submit myself to God.
00:26:23.68\00:26:26.88
Like it says, submit yourself
to God, resist the devil and he
00:26:26.92\00:26:30.05
will flee from you.
00:26:30.05\00:26:31.15
And that promise, I
would cling on to that.
00:26:31.42\00:26:33.39
I would also cling on to Romans
12, two, which talks about do
00:26:33.49\00:26:37.26
not be conformed with the
behaviors and customs of this
00:26:37.26\00:26:40.00
world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind.
00:26:40.00\00:26:42.83
And then you will learn to know
God's will for you, which is
00:26:42.86\00:26:45.57
good and pleasing and perfect.
00:26:45.57\00:26:47.07
So that was one of the two
of the promises I would always
00:26:47.34\00:26:51.47
claim in my prayer time.
00:26:51.47\00:26:52.71
And I was experiencing just
feeling more joy, feeling at
00:26:53.24\00:26:57.38
peace.
00:26:57.38\00:26:58.05
So I would say that
that was part of it.
00:26:58.31\00:27:00.12
And then in 2022, when I was
sharing my testimony at GYC, I
00:27:00.12\00:27:00.15
would pray and I was
eight months after he did her
00:27:05.42\00:27:08.69
program.
00:27:08.69\00:27:09.22
You were fast track, Daniel.
00:27:09.59\00:27:10.93
God was fast track.
00:27:10.99\00:27:11.93
Yeah.
00:27:12.33\00:27:12.46
And I was just following
him, you know, just whatever,
00:27:13.50\00:27:16.33
whatever he wanted me to do.
00:27:16.60\00:27:17.83
I was in my prayer closet,
reading my Bible, getting
00:27:17.83\00:27:21.00
plugged into my church
community, telling my friends
00:27:21.00\00:27:23.61
like, I don't know.
00:27:23.61\00:27:24.44
I didn't do anything.
00:27:24.44\00:27:27.88
journey.
00:27:27.88\00:27:28.28
You showed up.
00:27:28.31\00:27:28.91
So because he was
showing up for me.
00:27:29.71\00:27:31.58
God was really present
and his love was palpable.
00:27:31.81\00:27:34.28
And I couldn't resist it.
00:27:34.28\00:27:36.48
So so to answer your question,
when we met at GYC the second
00:27:37.99\00:27:44.09
time, I would pray and I would
ask God, Lord, I don't know who
00:27:44.09\00:27:48.56
to hang out with.
00:27:48.56\00:27:49.10
I don't know anybody here.
00:27:49.20\00:27:50.40
Please show me
who to hang out with.
00:27:50.90\00:27:52.70
Here comes Kirsten, you know,
just walking three and a half
00:27:52.97\00:27:57.44
years later.
00:27:57.44\00:27:58.24
Wow.
00:27:58.71\00:27:59.27
And we would just have
casual, nice conversation.
00:27:59.77\00:28:02.21
I would say we were connecting
on a couple of different levels
00:28:02.21\00:28:07.32
intellectually and emotionally
at first, just talking about
00:28:07.32\00:28:10.59
her family, her passions, like
we both were working as social
00:28:10.59\00:28:13.76
work therapists and just
about God and just good general
00:28:13.76\00:28:18.06
conversation.
00:28:18.06\00:28:22.60
reasons.
00:28:22.60\00:28:23.50
And then I started to have
these feelings and I would have
00:28:23.77\00:28:26.67
these sexual
thoughts towards her.
00:28:26.67\00:28:28.50
And I'm like,
what's going on with me?
00:28:28.74\00:28:30.04
Like, this is strange for me.
00:28:30.04\00:28:30.07
Maybe other men may not
have, you know, those types of
00:28:32.97\00:28:36.51
thoughts of it, that being
strange, you know, still, you
00:28:36.51\00:28:39.21
don't want to
entertain those thoughts.
00:28:39.21\00:28:40.28
But for me, that was strange.
00:28:40.32\00:28:42.52
So I'm like, is this loss?
00:28:42.55\00:28:44.25
I'm surrendering it.
00:28:44.69\00:28:45.82
I'm just trying to let it go.
00:28:45.85\00:28:47.46
And then she
crossed my path again.
00:28:48.26\00:28:50.16
Whenever I would pray, Lord,
show me who I should hang out
00:28:50.86\00:28:53.19
with.
00:28:53.19\00:28:53.66
And would you like to add?
00:28:53.93\00:28:54.96
So in my mind, this is where
I already had told the Lord,
00:28:55.66\00:28:59.10
Lord, I'm not going to
date anyone until 2024.
00:28:59.10\00:29:01.90
So I'm focused.
00:29:02.20\00:29:04.04
I'm not.
00:29:04.61\00:29:05.34
But I did enjoy the
company because, yeah, we were
00:29:05.71\00:29:08.21
connecting
intellectually and so forth.
00:29:08.21\00:29:10.25
But I did not
initially see him as attractive.
00:29:10.31\00:29:12.81
No, I was just like,
that's my good classmate.
00:29:13.05\00:29:15.58
And, you know, it's just
having a good time together.
00:29:15.98\00:29:17.75
Just a platonic conversation.
00:29:17.85\00:29:19.35
And that's it.
00:29:19.39\00:29:20.39
She said to her, so she's
not going to date until 2024.
00:29:20.59\00:29:22.52
So she was very
she had like a wall.
00:29:22.86\00:29:25.03
Yeah.
00:29:25.26\00:29:25.63
Yeah.
00:29:26.06\00:29:26.23
Everything was just a lot
of she was not interested.
00:29:27.20\00:29:30.60
And I started to
behave strangely there, too.
00:29:31.00\00:29:33.34
I remember one time there
was a group of guys and she was
00:29:33.34\00:29:38.34
talking to them.
00:29:38.34\00:29:40.88
pursue.
00:29:40.88\00:29:43.31
Nice to meet you.
00:29:43.41\00:29:44.11
My name is Daniel.
00:29:44.18\00:29:44.88
I can meet you.
00:29:45.08\00:29:45.71
And I shook their hand.
00:29:45.91\00:29:46.68
I'm like, what
is going on with me?
00:29:46.68\00:29:48.08
Were you a little jealous?
00:29:48.18\00:29:49.18
Were you feeling?
00:29:49.42\00:29:51.85
Like, OK, I don't.
00:29:52.65\00:29:53.96
Joking for your position.
00:29:54.16\00:29:55.39
I guess so.
00:29:55.39\00:29:56.32
That was so strange for me
because I don't normally behave
00:29:56.56\00:29:59.29
that way.
00:29:59.29\00:30:02.20
let me know.
00:30:02.20\00:30:02.83
Like, yes.
00:30:02.83\00:30:02.86
So that, you know, she didn't
engage with me, I guess, that
00:30:06.33\00:30:09.74
day.
00:30:09.74\00:30:10.14
And would you like to share
how I dropped the bomb on you?
00:30:11.14\00:30:13.34
Yes.
00:30:14.14\00:30:19.15
And again, we're
having a good conversation.
00:30:20.48\00:30:22.88
And I don't know why I just
thought about asking him, are
00:30:22.88\00:30:28.99
you interested in anyone?
00:30:28.99\00:30:30.59
But I wasn't saying that
as me trying to make a move.
00:30:30.96\00:30:33.66
Yeah, I just I don't
know, I felt comfortable to ask.
00:30:34.00\00:30:37.20
And I did not know
what he was going to say.
00:30:37.27\00:30:39.87
And then.
00:30:40.20\00:30:41.00
So when she asked me that,
I forgot to share that at some
00:30:41.40\00:30:44.97
point, God reminded me that she
fit the list that I was praying
00:30:44.97\00:30:49.11
for in a wife, because God
asked me to pray for a wife in
00:30:49.11\00:30:51.98
August 2022.
00:30:51.98\00:30:53.11
Well, can you mind just adding,
because for me, I think it's so
00:30:54.35\00:30:57.52
vital.
00:30:57.52\00:31:00.59
expect grandchildren.
00:31:00.59\00:31:01.42
I'm not getting married.
00:31:01.59\00:31:02.39
I'm celibate for Jesus.
00:31:02.46\00:31:03.69
I mean, you were
you were disciplined.
00:31:03.79\00:31:05.76
I was
aggressively a single looking.
00:31:05.99\00:31:10.30
I was not interested.
00:31:10.57\00:31:11.63
There were some opportunities,
but I wasn't genuinely
00:31:11.70\00:31:15.10
attracted to women.
00:31:15.10\00:31:16.20
Honestly, I'm like, there's
these beautiful, godly women at
00:31:16.64\00:31:18.61
my church, but
I'm not drawn to them.
00:31:18.61\00:31:21.61
I wish I just wasn't.
00:31:21.91\00:31:23.14
So I concluded I'm still
homosexual and I have to live
00:31:23.31\00:31:27.22
my life for God.
00:31:27.22\00:31:28.18
And he's given me community.
00:31:28.25\00:31:29.52
He's given me purpose.
00:31:29.92\00:31:30.85
I have a professional
life and I'm content.
00:31:30.85\00:31:30.89
So that's what I
would tell myself.
00:31:33.96\00:31:35.26
And I started to
feel a little lonely.
00:31:35.36\00:31:38.43
And I started to just ask
God, Lord, you've changed my
00:31:38.76\00:31:42.13
lifestyle.
00:31:42.13\00:31:45.70
out with.
00:31:45.70\00:31:46.40
What about the gay thing?
00:31:47.00\00:31:48.84
Can you change that?
00:31:48.97\00:31:50.07
And it started with that, just
kind of having conversations
00:31:50.21\00:31:52.97
with God.
00:31:52.97\00:31:53.61
And I started to
notice Christian couples.
00:31:54.11\00:31:56.31
And so, like yourself, I
would see a Christian couple and
00:31:57.28\00:32:00.62
think, wow, they seem
like a nice, godly couple.
00:32:00.62\00:32:02.88
But then I'm like,
what am I thinking?
00:32:03.32\00:32:04.65
And I just would
have these thoughts.
00:32:06.96\00:32:09.06
And then I started to have
a curiosity to have something
00:32:10.03\00:32:13.09
like that, to have a life
partner who accepted me and
00:32:13.09\00:32:17.07
loved me and I can love
and accept them and to do life
00:32:17.07\00:32:19.80
together.
00:32:19.80\00:32:20.27
But then I would just
kind of brush it off until God
00:32:22.34\00:32:25.44
convicted me.
00:32:25.44\00:32:26.64
And he told me that he
could do the impossible.
00:32:26.88\00:32:29.34
And I laughed at God, kind of
how other people in the Bible,
00:32:31.11\00:32:35.32
they laughed at God.
00:32:35.52\00:32:36.18
I think Sarah, she
laughed at God too.
00:32:36.42\00:32:38.19
And I just had some unbelief
that I didn't think he could
00:32:38.55\00:32:41.26
change somebody like me.
00:32:41.26\00:32:42.76
So, he told me
to pray for a wife.
00:32:43.43\00:32:45.03
So, I asked him to inspire me
with qualities that would make
00:32:45.09\00:32:48.33
a great future wife for me,
because clearly I didn't know
00:32:48.33\00:32:50.77
how to pick.
00:32:50.77\00:32:51.50
I had lived a homosexual
lifestyle, so I didn't really
00:32:51.93\00:32:55.60
know what love really was.
00:32:55.60\00:32:56.71
So, at this point, fast forward
to she asked me at dinner at
00:32:57.31\00:33:02.61
GYC, and I knew that she fit
the bill of the qualities that
00:33:02.61\00:33:07.28
would make a wonderful
wife and beautiful marriage.
00:33:07.28\00:33:10.39
And so, I thought, should I
tell her the rule or should I
00:33:10.39\00:33:13.39
just not say anything right now?
00:33:13.39\00:33:15.59
And I'm like, well,
I have nothing to lose.
00:33:15.59\00:33:16.99
I'm only here to
share my testimony.
00:33:19.93\00:33:21.90
You know everything about me.
00:33:22.00\00:33:23.16
But I think you have great
qualities that would make a
00:33:23.97\00:33:26.77
wonderful wife.
00:33:26.77\00:33:27.37
And I'm interested in you.
00:33:27.37\00:33:27.40
I was really direct.
00:33:30.84\00:33:32.17
I've heard other stories where
some guys, they've manipulated
00:33:32.57\00:33:36.11
or they try to say, God told
me you're going to be my wife.
00:33:36.11\00:33:38.21
And people make
mistakes and such.
00:33:38.58\00:33:40.25
So, we didn't
rush into anything.
00:33:40.35\00:33:42.95
Internally, I just
wanted to like leave, run away.
00:33:46.22\00:33:49.02
But I just, a generic response
telling him, okay, thank you.
00:33:51.26\00:33:56.20
And I think you're a
good individual, too.
00:33:56.23\00:33:58.50
And, you know,
just leave it at that.
00:33:59.17\00:34:00.60
Very clinical.
00:34:01.00\00:34:01.97
Is that called the friend zone?
00:34:03.07\00:34:04.64
Is that when you
friend zone something?
00:34:05.51\00:34:06.68
Clinical.
00:34:07.28\00:34:07.74
She kept it very, I'm
like, okay, what do you think?
00:34:09.11\00:34:11.48
And she was
just like no emotion.
00:34:12.78\00:34:15.38
So I'm like, okay.
00:34:15.52\00:34:16.55
But she still
wanted to go for a walk.
00:34:17.09\00:34:19.05
So I'm like, if you didn't
like what I said in my mind, why
00:34:19.49\00:34:23.26
would you still
want to hang out?
00:34:23.26\00:34:24.59
But you still, would you like
to share what you think about
00:34:25.16\00:34:27.36
that?
00:34:27.36\00:34:27.86
I think it's just like
a friend, a good friend.
00:34:28.30\00:34:31.07
And that's how I was seeing him.
00:34:31.10\00:34:33.20
And also because I had that
goal, I'm like, it is not time
00:34:33.20\00:34:37.34
yet.
00:34:37.34\00:34:37.61
It's not 24 yet.
00:34:37.87\00:34:39.01
So I'm like, no, I'm not
going to start or lead someone.
00:34:39.74\00:34:43.31
And then, you know,
it might not work out.
00:34:43.55\00:34:46.65
So that's where my head was at.
00:34:46.65\00:34:48.68
So she's very firm
with her boundaries.
00:34:49.35\00:34:51.49
And I told her, too, that I
wasn't trying to rush anything.
00:34:51.52\00:34:54.59
I wanted to be
intentional friends.
00:34:54.69\00:34:56.42
I didn't want to stay as
friends, but I wanted to pray
00:34:56.79\00:34:59.26
and see how God wanted
to lead our relationship.
00:34:59.26\00:35:01.40
So that's basically the
beginning of our testimony.
00:35:01.86\00:35:04.53
But yes, God allowed us to
be intentional friends for a
00:35:04.53\00:35:08.64
couple of months, I think
five months or so, and then we
00:35:08.64\00:35:11.94
courted and then we got married.
00:35:11.94\00:35:14.34
And he gave us confirmations
throughout the way.
00:35:14.71\00:35:17.11
Would you like to share
maybe one or two confirmations?
00:35:17.48\00:35:19.81
Yeah.
00:35:20.02\00:35:25.12
working in him of putting
together this list of qualities
00:35:25.12\00:35:28.66
for a wife.
00:35:28.66\00:35:29.89
He also was working with me
in the sense that I was together
00:35:30.49\00:35:37.43
with my friends, female
friends, you know, just talking
00:35:37.43\00:35:40.27
about life.
00:35:40.27\00:35:41.24
And then one of my friends told
me, Kirsten, you know, what do
00:35:41.67\00:35:47.74
you think about if there's like
a godly man that's loving, you
00:35:47.74\00:35:51.68
know, has all these great
qualities, but had a past life
00:35:51.68\00:35:56.45
being gay?
00:35:56.45\00:35:57.22
And I never thought about that
question before, but I wasn't
00:35:57.72\00:36:01.96
like, absolutely not.
00:36:01.96\00:36:03.46
And so I think that was also
just the Lord putting a seed in
00:36:03.66\00:36:08.26
me also.
00:36:08.26\00:36:09.03
And my friend, when she asked
me this question, it wasn't
00:36:09.50\00:36:11.80
like she was going
around asking everybody, it was
00:36:11.80\00:36:14.57
specifically to me.
00:36:14.57\00:36:15.24
Does she know Daniel?
00:36:15.24\00:36:16.14
No, no.
00:36:16.54\00:36:17.74
And I hadn't even had no
conversations with him before
00:36:18.17\00:36:22.58
either.
00:36:22.58\00:36:27.85
And another major confirmation
after about three months of
00:36:28.98\00:36:32.75
being intentional friends,
she invited me to go to this
00:36:32.75\00:36:36.29
conference called Love in the
Making, which is kind of ironic
00:36:36.29\00:36:38.59
because God was literally
creating like love between us
00:36:38.59\00:36:41.96
and we were really
growing closer as good friends.
00:36:41.96\00:36:44.47
And really, I would say I
was falling in love very quick.
00:36:44.80\00:36:48.17
And the speaker for this
conference, he actually used to
00:36:49.90\00:36:53.34
be gay and him and his
wife were going to be sharing.
00:36:53.34\00:36:56.98
And I'm like, wow, when do you
see speakers that they had that
00:36:57.05\00:37:00.55
background?
00:37:00.55\00:37:03.22
We had a chance to meet them.
00:37:03.59\00:37:04.85
And actually, I think Miguel
and his wife, Christina, I
00:37:05.32\00:37:08.06
think they were also
on an episode, I believe.
00:37:08.06\00:37:10.89
That's right.
00:37:10.89\00:37:11.49
Dare to dream.
00:37:11.66\00:37:12.23
So we had a chance
to connect with them.
00:37:13.13\00:37:15.30
And those are just two
confirmations that God had
00:37:15.36\00:37:18.23
revealed to us in our journey
because I know sometimes people
00:37:18.23\00:37:21.94
may try to force
something that's not there.
00:37:21.94\00:37:25.27
And so we really wanted
his direction for our life.
00:37:25.41\00:37:28.48
So after we got married, May of
last year, 2024, it's going to
00:37:28.98\00:37:34.52
be a year or 24.
00:37:34.52\00:37:35.58
Yeah.
00:37:36.75\00:37:37.09
Isn't that funny?
00:37:37.25\00:37:37.72
She was really not trying to...
00:37:38.05\00:37:38.75
Wait, this is unfair.
00:37:38.75\00:37:39.45
There's one detail that I love
about their story because it
00:37:39.99\00:37:42.99
really just to me, it just
really shows how Daniel's like,
00:37:42.99\00:37:45.73
you know,
pursue, pursue, pursue.
00:37:45.73\00:37:47.23
And Kirsten's like,
resist, resist, resist.
00:37:47.60\00:37:49.43
Because Kirsten, you were on
this path of purity and Daniel
00:37:50.90\00:37:55.40
is feeling his manhood.
00:37:55.40\00:37:56.84
And there still was
like a conflict there going.
00:37:56.84\00:38:00.48
And when she told me this
part of the story, I looked at
00:38:00.81\00:38:02.94
Kirsten and I go,
that girl's discipline.
00:38:02.94\00:38:05.45
Like that was really powerful.
00:38:05.81\00:38:06.92
Will you share that place?
00:38:07.02\00:38:08.02
Yeah.
00:38:08.28\00:38:14.09
And I guess to others,
it could be very extreme.
00:38:14.29\00:38:17.39
So when we did see each other
at Love in the Making, like we
00:38:18.23\00:38:21.40
had spoke about
like boundaries, physical
00:38:21.40\00:38:24.93
boundaries, because in my
mind, I'm like, no, the Lord has
00:38:24.93\00:38:28.87
really restored me.
00:38:28.87\00:38:30.24
I don't want to go
back and repeat history.
00:38:30.47\00:38:33.44
So I was super, super
cautious, like a mile away.
00:38:33.74\00:38:37.25
Like I don't want to be
close, not even an inch.
00:38:37.31\00:38:40.05
So when I had dropped him
off at the airport, I was just
00:38:41.35\00:38:46.69
impressed to tell Daniel,
like, look, Daniel, if there's
00:38:46.69\00:38:50.16
anything that happens between
us, like sexually, strike one,
00:38:50.16\00:38:53.70
you're out.
00:38:53.83\00:38:54.40
Like, no, no, not at all.
00:38:54.40\00:38:56.87
So when she said that, I
felt very more attracted to her,
00:38:57.77\00:39:03.14
like more like, wow,
she really respects herself.
00:39:03.44\00:39:05.57
Like she's a true like wife
material and okay, because yes,
00:39:05.61\00:39:10.51
some of the boundaries are kind
of too strict for my liking.
00:39:10.85\00:39:13.01
Like I wanted to put my
arm around her, you know, like
00:39:13.21\00:39:15.48
touch your hand.
00:39:15.48\00:39:16.28
And so we were
also long distance.
00:39:16.55\00:39:18.49
So even to this day,
it's in the back of my mind.
00:39:18.55\00:39:21.46
Okay, when we're in public, you
know, like no touchy touchy, I
00:39:21.59\00:39:24.39
like it.
00:39:24.39\00:39:25.19
Like I do.
00:39:25.43\00:39:26.43
So yeah, that was something
that we had to work through,
00:39:27.66\00:39:30.90
especially we want to respect
each other's boundaries then.
00:39:31.03\00:39:33.20
But yeah, that was something
that really brought her up even
00:39:34.04\00:39:36.57
more for me.
00:39:36.57\00:39:37.24
That's what I love about it.
00:39:37.34\00:39:38.67
While she was holding on to the
principle, not knowing what his
00:39:38.81\00:39:41.44
reaction would be, she
didn't even realize it.
00:39:41.44\00:39:43.85
But when she put the brakes
on all of that, for him, it was
00:39:43.85\00:39:46.78
like, go, go, go even more.
00:39:46.78\00:39:48.52
It's like, she
is the one, right?
00:39:48.65\00:39:50.12
Yeah.
00:39:50.12\00:39:50.15
that you're a princess
and you're to be valued and
00:39:54.06\00:39:56.66
respected and to put those
boundaries up can actually make
00:39:56.66\00:40:00.40
you even more
attractive to someone.
00:40:00.40\00:40:02.56
And so I think that a lot
of our young girls, you know,
00:40:02.83\00:40:04.97
because they don't know their
value, you know, they end up in
00:40:05.00\00:40:07.57
compromising situations.
00:40:07.57\00:40:08.70
But their story to me really
helps to affirm everyone's
00:40:08.87\00:40:12.24
value.
00:40:12.24\00:40:12.67
And also for the young men,
if I can add to, you know, just
00:40:13.48\00:40:16.54
because you have sexual desires
for a woman, like you're not
00:40:16.54\00:40:19.08
defined by that either.
00:40:19.08\00:40:19.88
You're not animalistic.
00:40:19.88\00:40:21.48
You don't have to give in.
00:40:21.55\00:40:23.42
And even though it might
feel like it, you can resist.
00:40:23.69\00:40:26.12
God does give
the power to do that.
00:40:26.22\00:40:27.79
And you don't have to beat
yourself up and feel ashamed
00:40:27.79\00:40:27.82
for having attractions because
even in the word of God, it
00:40:30.33\00:40:33.06
says that Jesus was tempted
and out points as we yet without
00:40:33.06\00:40:35.83
sin.
00:40:35.83\00:40:39.97
judgment, pray for wisdom
because God will, he promises
00:40:39.97\00:40:42.47
to give that wisdom.
00:40:42.47\00:40:43.47
And if you know you're tempted
with certain things, then don't
00:40:43.91\00:40:47.01
be around it.
00:40:47.01\00:40:50.75
trying to take moves on you
and don't make moves on them
00:40:50.75\00:40:53.82
because that's not
alignment with God's word.
00:40:53.82\00:40:56.28
And we know that true joy
and peace really is in alignment
00:40:56.35\00:41:00.26
with God's principles.
00:41:00.26\00:41:01.76
He designed us to live in
eternity and breaking those
00:41:01.96\00:41:05.19
boundaries only is
deception at the end of the day.
00:41:05.19\00:41:08.56
The grass is not
greener on that side of things.
00:41:09.06\00:41:11.67
That's good.
00:41:11.80\00:41:12.53
That's powerful, isn't it?
00:41:12.57\00:41:14.14
Can I ask a question?
00:41:14.40\00:41:15.57
Yeah.
00:41:15.57\00:41:18.84
married, this is a question.
00:41:18.84\00:41:19.91
I want to know, Kirsten, when
was it that Daniel stepped into
00:41:20.28\00:41:23.04
the driver's seat?
00:41:23.04\00:41:24.28
Like when was it that you were
like, okay, I think I do love
00:41:24.31\00:41:27.18
this guy.
00:41:27.18\00:41:30.09
Because, you know, you went
from dating and resisting to
00:41:30.25\00:41:32.65
boom, you're married.
00:41:32.65\00:41:33.46
You know, I know that there's
a little bit more in between.
00:41:33.86\00:41:36.16
So the Lord had to really speak
to me because I dedicated like
00:41:36.93\00:41:41.10
Lord, no, like in your time.
00:41:41.10\00:41:43.23
And I guess I had put a time
and not allow God to put his
00:41:43.23\00:41:48.17
time.
00:41:48.17\00:41:58.31
that really cared about my
journey and spiritual life, and
00:41:58.31\00:42:02.92
they knew about my past as well.
00:42:02.92\00:42:04.59
So I had one friend of mine,
he saw like the journey, like
00:42:05.42\00:42:10.59
after the breakup, you know,
I was depressed and a roller
00:42:10.59\00:42:14.46
coaster.
00:42:14.46\00:42:19.97
making.
00:42:19.97\00:42:25.11
And he said that, you know,
Kirsten, I have been praying
00:42:25.94\00:42:29.88
for you for a while.
00:42:29.88\00:42:31.35
And I was impressed to remove
you from my prayer list because
00:42:31.38\00:42:35.78
I've seen how the Lord has
really restored you, given you
00:42:35.78\00:42:38.92
his identity.
00:42:38.92\00:42:39.85
And I think you
should give him a chance.
00:42:40.32\00:42:44.39
Praise the Lord
for that brother.
00:42:45.09\00:42:46.73
And then just also seeing
how the qualities that he was
00:42:49.70\00:42:54.34
displaying, like he was
very caring, very godly.
00:42:54.34\00:42:58.67
Whenever we would talk on
the phone, because we were long
00:42:58.67\00:42:58.71
distance, he would always
initiate prayer and he was
00:43:02.11\00:43:05.78
honest.
00:43:05.78\00:43:06.78
And so just seeing that of
itself was what I was longing
00:43:06.98\00:43:11.65
for in my other relationships.
00:43:11.65\00:43:13.39
And I guess in the other
relationships I was forcing it
00:43:13.39\00:43:16.56
and I wasn't
allowing God to lead me.
00:43:16.56\00:43:20.40
And so it was actually, yeah,
the Lord had to really be like,
00:43:21.03\00:43:25.60
okay, just take
that leap of faith.
00:43:25.77\00:43:28.34
And because there was some
other confirmations as well,
00:43:29.14\00:43:32.21
but those were like
the main ones for me.
00:43:32.21\00:43:34.44
That's amazing.
00:43:35.14\00:43:36.08
So what response have you
gotten from people about your
00:43:36.34\00:43:41.82
relationship?
00:43:41.82\00:43:42.52
Have you gotten resistance,
for example, Daniel, from people
00:43:43.15\00:43:46.82
who are still living
the homosexual lifestyle and
00:43:46.82\00:43:49.02
saying, oh, you
can't change or whatever?
00:43:49.02\00:43:51.43
I mean, what kind of responses
have you both gotten about your
00:43:51.63\00:43:55.00
marriage?
00:43:55.00\00:43:55.36
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:43:55.80\00:43:57.03
And we actually
talked about this.
00:43:57.37\00:43:58.67
And in general, when we share,
most people don't come up to us
00:43:59.07\00:44:02.74
and say anything
negative necessarily.
00:44:02.74\00:44:05.54
But I do have friends and know
people on social media and such
00:44:07.11\00:44:11.08
that are still living
in the LGBTQ community.
00:44:11.08\00:44:14.92
And most of them
respect my decision.
00:44:15.78\00:44:18.69
Some people claim,
oh, you're just bisexual.
00:44:18.85\00:44:21.99
But I know I was
strictly homosexual.
00:44:23.39\00:44:26.36
I didn't have any
feelings or desires for women.
00:44:26.73\00:44:29.30
And what I have for my wife,
I know came from God because of
00:44:29.86\00:44:32.97
the steps that he took me
through to get to this point.
00:44:32.97\00:44:35.44
And, you know, even if they
don't understand, that's okay,
00:44:35.44\00:44:40.14
you know, it's
not God isn't forced.
00:44:40.31\00:44:42.21
So I don't have to try to force
to convince people otherwise,
00:44:42.41\00:44:44.65
because by their
fruit, you shall know them.
00:44:45.48\00:44:47.45
So, you know, the fruit that
I bear is thanking it to Christ,
00:44:47.92\00:44:50.32
honoring his name and sharing
is the Holy Spirit's job to
00:44:50.72\00:44:54.82
convict and to bring people to
an awareness of their sins and
00:44:54.82\00:44:58.86
the things that they've fallen
short because he's everyone's
00:44:58.86\00:45:01.80
savior if we just accept him.
00:45:01.80\00:45:02.93
That's right.
00:45:03.10\00:45:06.50
with the ministry, you maybe
seem like you focus on LGBTQ or
00:45:07.00\00:45:11.34
whatever, but really, as
you travel, as you talk, as you
00:45:11.34\00:45:15.61
minister here, you're letting
people know that no matter what
00:45:15.61\00:45:18.95
your issues are, because we all
have them, we're all sinners,
00:45:18.95\00:45:22.52
that God can give us
victory over whatever sin.
00:45:23.42\00:45:26.09
You're honest enough to tell
yours and yours, and, you know,
00:45:26.39\00:45:30.69
some of us aren't.
00:45:30.79\00:45:32.03
Some of us may be hiding, and
we're back here, and I say we,
00:45:32.03\00:45:36.40
I'm saying we, the human race,
a lot of us, our tendency is
00:45:36.70\00:45:40.34
not to, well, you don't want
everything out in the open, but
00:45:40.34\00:45:43.64
you all are saying, hey, look,
this is where I was, this where
00:45:43.64\00:45:47.34
you may be right now, and I
don't care if it's one way or
00:45:47.34\00:45:50.91
the other, you know, whatever
you have in your life that the
00:45:50.91\00:45:55.58
devil is beating you up, God
can give you victory over that.
00:45:55.58\00:45:58.92
That's right.
00:45:58.92\00:46:03.32
that's why Jesus died, is to
give us an opportunity that to
00:46:03.32\00:46:07.86
give us victory over
sin through Christ Jesus.
00:46:07.86\00:46:10.70
We can't do it on our own, and
I noticed that neither one of
00:46:10.87\00:46:15.14
you were saying, well, I just
decided this, so I didn't do
00:46:15.14\00:46:18.21
it, and I did
this, I didn't do it.
00:46:18.21\00:46:20.74
You both were saying, we pray,
we were praying, we were asking
00:46:20.84\00:46:24.51
God, we were telling the Lord,
or asking Lord, what do you
00:46:24.51\00:46:28.28
want me?
00:46:28.28\00:46:33.22
we, what I'm getting from this
and for those at home, whatever
00:46:33.22\00:46:36.26
your issues tonight are,
whatever they are, God can give
00:46:36.26\00:46:40.26
you victory too.
00:46:40.26\00:46:40.96
That's right.
00:46:40.96\00:46:45.07
go ahead.
00:46:45.07\00:46:45.87
So 1 Corinthians chapter 6, I
think is really the definition
00:46:46.33\00:46:50.74
of our ministry, because it
says, do not be deceived, you
00:46:50.74\00:46:54.51
know, and it lists all of the
abominations that won't be in
00:46:54.51\00:46:57.18
heaven, and you know what?
00:46:57.18\00:46:58.35
Yes, homosexuality is mentioned
there, and it's very clear,
00:46:58.35\00:47:02.18
it's homosexual offenders, and
so God doesn't have a problem
00:47:02.28\00:47:05.92
with people that are
same-sex -attracted, because he
00:47:05.92\00:47:08.29
understands that there are
reasons why, you know, we were
00:47:08.29\00:47:10.99
same -sex-attracted, but he
calls out for the offenders, he
00:47:10.99\00:47:15.00
talks about the idolaters,
the fornicators, the licentious,
00:47:15.00\00:47:18.20
you know.
00:47:18.53\00:47:19.03
The gossipers, the drunk.
00:47:19.17\00:47:22.64
know, homosexuality, and I was
one of those people that walked
00:47:22.64\00:47:25.87
out of the church culture,
because that's all I heard was
00:47:25.87\00:47:27.98
that, you know, gays were going
to burn in a hotter house, so,
00:47:27.98\00:47:31.01
you know, not only is it the
LGBT, but you know, anyone that
00:47:31.21\00:47:36.35
struggles with porn addiction
and, you know, sexual thoughts
00:47:36.35\00:47:39.09
or licentiousness, or even
sexual abuse, which, you know,
00:47:39.09\00:47:41.96
when Hector shares his
story, he's a powerful story of
00:47:41.99\00:47:44.99
deliverance there.
00:47:44.99\00:47:45.69
So verse 11 was really the
impetus that I think that we
00:47:46.26\00:47:50.00
all need access to, and
unfortunately, that wasn't what
00:47:50.00\00:47:52.83
I heard in Christian culture,
you know, and it's still not
00:47:52.83\00:47:55.44
something that I think is as
prevalent as it should be, but
00:47:55.44\00:47:58.44
it says, such were some of you.
00:47:58.44\00:48:00.24
Such were some of you.
00:48:00.48\00:48:01.31
That's right, that's right.
00:48:01.38\00:48:02.51
I love that, that's
one of my favorites.
00:48:02.81\00:48:04.45
But I didn't even realize this,
but it's not just such were
00:48:04.45\00:48:07.38
some of you, but
you've been washed.
00:48:07.38\00:48:09.02
That's right.
00:48:09.05\00:48:12.49
Jesus Christ and by the Spirit
of our God, and to me, it was
00:48:12.49\00:48:15.39
like, you know what, when
somebody says, you know, I'm
00:48:15.39\00:48:17.59
gay, I can't change, I
go, that's right, you can't.
00:48:17.59\00:48:19.59
I said, but Jesus can do some
amazing things in your life.
00:48:19.59\00:48:23.13
That's right, that's right.
00:48:23.13\00:48:24.27
And I think that that has
an application for the person
00:48:24.27\00:48:26.94
that's addicted to the porn,
you know, for the individual
00:48:26.94\00:48:29.57
that was molested as a
child, that, you know, has these
00:48:29.57\00:48:32.07
sexual thoughts, whatever the
issue is, all of it is wrapped
00:48:32.07\00:48:35.38
up in verses 9 and 10 and 1
Corinthians with verse 11, and
00:48:35.38\00:48:38.88
I think verse 11 really needs
to be celebrated and talked
00:48:38.88\00:48:42.68
about.
00:48:42.68\00:48:46.25
that was shed and what Jesus is
doing in the sanctuary now for
00:48:46.25\00:48:49.19
us.
00:48:49.19\00:48:49.42
Praise the Lord.
00:48:50.29\00:48:50.99
1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11.
00:48:51.13\00:48:53.26
Daniel just said something very
profound, that we might, we're
00:48:53.26\00:48:57.97
talking about all this stuff
and it might be heavy for some
00:48:57.97\00:49:00.50
of our audience and he
just quietly, as you were naming
00:49:00.50\00:49:03.57
things, said, gossip.
00:49:03.57\00:49:04.57
Yeah, they're
mentioned there too.
00:49:05.31\00:49:06.21
Well, we don't
want to talk about that.
00:49:06.21\00:49:07.68
That's the church, right?
00:49:07.84\00:49:10.88
Stove.
00:49:10.88\00:49:13.58
We'd rather talk about
LGBTQ or, you know, those that
00:49:13.58\00:49:13.62
different from us, adulterers
or whatever, but this is a huge
00:49:17.39\00:49:21.06
problem within the Christian
community and within the
00:49:21.06\00:49:23.79
Christian church.
00:49:23.79\00:49:24.79
I was telling her, I say, you
know, some of these magazines
00:49:25.06\00:49:27.93
that call themselves Christians
and some of them Adventists who
00:49:27.93\00:49:31.30
go by names Adventists, they're
printing gossip instead of the
00:49:31.30\00:49:34.94
gospel and, you
know, that needs to be.
00:49:34.94\00:49:37.41
So there's all kinds of
things that God can deliver us.
00:49:38.07\00:49:41.18
I know we only on this hour
we've got, and you've got a lot
00:49:41.34\00:49:44.48
of new projects going so...
00:49:44.48\00:49:46.38
Yeah, and I just want to
make a comment before we move on
00:49:46.38\00:49:49.38
because, you know, we
changed the name from Coming Out
00:49:49.38\00:49:52.62
Ministries to
Coming Together Ministries.
00:49:52.62\00:49:54.46
And I think listening to their
testimony and many different
00:49:54.49\00:49:58.19
testimonies that Michael could
share, really Coming Together
00:49:58.19\00:50:01.36
Ministries is a
relationship ministry.
00:50:01.36\00:50:04.47
And it's about that
relationship with Christ that
00:50:04.97\00:50:07.87
has the power to transform our
identities that we might know a
00:50:07.87\00:50:12.04
broader identity than
just our sexualized identity.
00:50:12.04\00:50:15.64
And, you know, there are things
in their story that are true to
00:50:16.85\00:50:20.58
everybody's story, even though
some of the backgrounds may be
00:50:20.58\00:50:23.69
a little bit different.
00:50:23.69\00:50:27.36
background stories than most
people know because we don't
00:50:27.36\00:50:30.13
have an open forum for
talking about those things.
00:50:30.13\00:50:32.36
But the denial of one's person
in what I'll call superficial
00:50:32.83\00:50:38.67
expression of affection and the
connecting with Christ actually
00:50:38.67\00:50:44.74
allows a healing encounter
that delivers identity.
00:50:44.74\00:50:48.78
And, you know, all through
your life your sense of that
00:50:49.04\00:50:52.95
identity will be a dynamic
of attraction and back and forth
00:50:52.95\00:50:56.38
between the two of you.
00:50:56.38\00:50:57.39
And this is true
for all relationships.
00:50:57.62\00:51:00.42
But that identity is found
not in something I can give away
00:51:01.12\00:51:04.66
and maybe shouldn't
give away prematurely.
00:51:04.66\00:51:06.73
It's actually found in what
I keep that's primarily kept
00:51:07.00\00:51:10.17
through a
relationship with Christ.
00:51:10.17\00:51:11.57
And when I start keeping
certain things for Jesus, it
00:51:12.00\00:51:15.64
elevates all of the
relational dynamics.
00:51:15.64\00:51:18.84
And out of that there's a
healing touch from the master
00:51:19.41\00:51:23.11
today just like
there used to be.
00:51:23.11\00:51:25.68
And if there's one thing I want
to say about this young couple
00:51:26.05\00:51:28.95
is that their walk with Christ
has made them honest people.
00:51:28.95\00:51:34.62
And that honesty is the
function of a soul that's wide
00:51:35.59\00:51:39.56
open to Christ.
00:51:39.56\00:51:40.66
And it creates a dynamic of
honesty with each other a bit
00:51:41.00\00:51:45.73
of suffering on the way.
00:51:45.73\00:51:46.87
I mean, it's hard when you
have more interest in the other
00:51:46.87\00:51:46.90
person than they have in you.
00:51:48.77\00:51:50.27
But it's a journey of trust.
00:51:50.84\00:51:52.57
It's a prayerful waiting for
God to architect and heal and
00:51:52.97\00:51:57.01
establish.
00:51:57.01\00:51:57.61
And so this coming together
ministries, you know, I've
00:51:58.18\00:52:02.65
heard it said by different
folks that talk about addiction
00:52:02.65\00:52:05.45
that the opposite of
addiction is connection.
00:52:05.45\00:52:07.86
And that connection
is first with Christ.
00:52:08.62\00:52:10.46
Our world is
swimming in superficiality.
00:52:10.99\00:52:14.46
But as we actually are willing
to go deeper with Christ, which
00:52:14.83\00:52:18.30
does involve a
bit of cross carrying.
00:52:18.30\00:52:20.00
It's there's some suffering.
00:52:20.27\00:52:21.50
There's some loneliness.
00:52:21.64\00:52:22.40
There's some being in
the wilderness, being on the
00:52:22.97\00:52:25.21
stretch.
00:52:25.21\00:52:25.51
But listen, you know, Michael
Card would sing in his song in
00:52:26.64\00:52:29.91
the wilderness.
00:52:29.91\00:52:33.98
self away.
00:52:33.98\00:52:34.75
And that self is in the way
of the connection that a lot of
00:52:35.62\00:52:39.12
people want.
00:52:39.12\00:52:39.79
They hang on to an identity
that's wrong, built around
00:52:40.29\00:52:43.63
something that was never
supposed to be the core of
00:52:43.63\00:52:45.99
their identity.
00:52:45.99\00:52:50.60
only in Christ, because Christ
is the great identity giver
00:52:50.60\00:52:54.54
from the beginning and remaker.
00:52:54.54\00:52:56.07
But it also gets in the way of
developing relational identity.
00:52:56.34\00:52:59.17
And so your story is laden
with multiple layers of victory.
00:52:59.77\00:53:04.71
But a lot of people
aren't willing to pay the price.
00:53:05.21\00:53:07.48
But I'll tell you what the
Bible says that when we delight
00:53:07.48\00:53:07.52
in him, he gives us
the desires of our heart.
00:53:10.25\00:53:12.42
And I know as the chairperson
of this ministry dealing with
00:53:13.25\00:53:16.42
different people in this
team, it's wonderful to see this
00:53:16.42\00:53:20.66
beautiful outgrowth of Christ,
this honesty which lays the
00:53:20.66\00:53:23.47
foundation for a
chance to connect so deeply.
00:53:23.47\00:53:25.60
So, so much to share.
00:53:26.63\00:53:28.10
But it's a relationship
ministry, first with Christ.
00:53:28.20\00:53:31.24
And he's still changing lives
the way he did 2,000 years ago.
00:53:31.71\00:53:34.81
It's not always as dramatic as
put mud on somebody's eyes and
00:53:35.41\00:53:38.85
go wash in the pool of Siloam.
00:53:38.85\00:53:40.75
But there is a gentle healer.
00:53:40.78\00:53:42.48
And he is leading us in a
way that gives the very best.
00:53:42.52\00:53:45.95
And this testimony is beautiful.
00:53:46.02\00:53:47.39
Amen.
00:53:48.09\00:53:48.52
Powerfully said.
00:53:48.69\00:53:52.69
hour.
00:53:52.69\00:53:54.83
from Hector too, of course.
00:53:54.83\00:53:56.53
But as I sit here and think
about it, the ministry, how
00:53:56.93\00:54:01.80
important this ministry is to
the Christian church and to the
00:54:01.80\00:54:06.17
Seventh -day Adventist Church.
00:54:06.17\00:54:07.28
Only a few years ago, I'm going
to go back and be so bold to
00:54:07.54\00:54:11.68
say about 10 years ago, I want
to address that tonight when
00:54:11.68\00:54:14.98
I'm going to an upcoming sermon
what happened 10 years ago,
00:54:14.98\00:54:18.69
2015.
00:54:18.92\00:54:19.79
But things have changed and the
moral decay and the spiral is
00:54:21.32\00:54:26.90
going so quickly.
00:54:26.90\00:54:28.20
But it's affecting the church
so much that even 10 years ago
00:54:28.63\00:54:33.40
when surveys that were done
about do you affirm LGBTQ, you
00:54:33.40\00:54:38.04
know, to now to 2025.
00:54:38.04\00:54:43.21
I just read the other day where
I hope it's wrong but it's a
00:54:43.71\00:54:49.42
survey done with a couple
thousand supposedly Adventists
00:54:49.42\00:54:53.02
almost 30% now say they're
okay to affirm LGBTQ in their
00:54:53.02\00:54:58.53
church.
00:54:58.53\00:55:04.70
okay.
00:55:04.70\00:55:09.64
say.
00:55:09.64\00:55:13.04
You know, but it's my daughter,
it's my son, it's my grandson,
00:55:13.27\00:55:16.71
it's my sister.
00:55:16.85\00:55:18.35
And you've got to know that
it's such a wonderful person
00:55:19.08\00:55:22.75
and for to not accept them
as church members and to do when
00:55:22.75\00:55:27.26
to me that's amazing because
the devil doesn't care which
00:55:27.26\00:55:31.56
side of the boat we fall
out as long as we fall out.
00:55:31.56\00:55:33.90
So as you're saying if you
go to church we want to people
00:55:33.90\00:55:38.00
LGBTQ we want people,
alcoholics, drug addicts, we
00:55:38.00\00:55:41.94
want them to come to church.
00:55:41.94\00:55:43.24
We want to love these people
but we have to love them enough
00:55:43.51\00:55:47.24
to tell them the truth.
00:55:47.24\00:55:48.44
And the truth is that open sin
is against God's commandments
00:55:48.98\00:55:53.31
and therefore we're no
matter what it is when we reject
00:55:53.31\00:55:57.99
Christ we're not
going to make to heaven.
00:55:57.99\00:56:00.69
So the attitudes within our
church when it comes to this 42
00:56:00.69\00:56:06.46
% of 70 Adventists now say
that and I got this from Pew
00:56:06.46\00:56:11.83
Research say that abortion
should be they support abortion
00:56:11.83\00:56:17.67
in almost all cases.
00:56:17.67\00:56:19.64
That's nearly half of 70
Adventists and it's like wait a
00:56:20.68\00:56:24.45
minute are we the people that
preach to Sabbath and you got
00:56:24.45\00:56:27.38
to keep all the commandments
including the fourth one but
00:56:27.38\00:56:30.32
all of a sudden the sixth one
well that's really not murder.
00:56:30.32\00:56:38.26
Well the seventh one but
you got to know the story if you
00:56:38.73\00:56:41.23
knew the story and the person
and so we're straying away
00:56:41.23\00:56:44.77
we're getting away so your
ministry is to me one of the
00:56:44.77\00:56:48.90
most important ministries
in the Adventist Church.
00:56:48.90\00:56:51.51
We should, you should have
support from people everywhere
00:56:52.01\00:56:55.21
and that's why we have you all
here and that's why we want to
00:56:55.21\00:56:58.41
do because you can say
what other people can't say.
00:56:58.41\00:57:02.52
I've never had that issue
I've had other plenty of other
00:57:02.72\00:57:05.89
issues but this is an issue
people don't want to talk about
00:57:05.89\00:57:08.62
and you know they're quiet and
so I believe you guys God has
00:57:08.62\00:57:14.10
called you for such an hour
as this this ministry they're
00:57:14.10\00:57:17.37
coming together and that's
why we're so thankful and so
00:57:17.37\00:57:20.47
grateful that you allow us to
be part of this because we feel
00:57:20.47\00:57:25.07
like we're part of the ministry.
00:57:25.07\00:57:26.41
Whether we are or not we
feel like we're part of it.
00:57:27.21\00:57:29.64
We do, we do feel that way.
00:57:29.74\00:57:31.18
Thank you so much for giving
us a platform and being able to
00:57:31.81\00:57:34.55
lift up Jesus who he is and
what he's done in our lives.
00:57:34.55\00:57:37.25
Well for our folks at home I
can't believe the first hour is
00:57:38.02\00:57:41.12
almost gone.
00:57:41.12\00:57:41.96
Don't go away we'll
be back in just a moment.
00:57:42.12\00:57:44.26