I want to spend my life, 00:00:02.96\00:00:08.64 I want to spend my life, 00:00:14.21\00:00:17.78 I want to spend my life, bending broken, 00:00:35.66\00:00:42.80 I want to spend my life. 00:00:46.31\00:00:50.81 Hello and welcome to another 3ABN Today Live. 00:01:05.86\00:01:08.26 Well, thank you for joining us as you do each and every day. 00:01:08.26\00:01:11.00 I'm privileged to be here with my beautiful wife, Yvonne. 00:01:11.10\00:01:14.04 Oh, I'm so happy to be here with you. 00:01:14.04\00:01:15.44 Well, you've been gone two or three days and I missed you. 00:01:15.44\00:01:17.74 I know. 00:01:17.74\00:01:18.21 Did you know that? 00:01:18.21\00:01:18.81 I know, I missed you too. 00:01:18.84\00:01:21.81 And so, you were in the ministry. 00:01:22.54\00:01:24.68 I was. 00:01:24.95\00:01:28.55 Oh, that's great. 00:01:28.68\00:01:29.58 We're going to hear about that sometime. 00:01:29.62\00:01:31.02 Not tonight, but we're going to hear about that another time. 00:01:31.29\00:01:33.92 So, we're here with some of our favorite people in all the 00:01:33.92\00:01:37.13 world. 00:01:37.13\00:01:40.46 we want to start with Mike. 00:01:40.46\00:01:41.66 And Michael, you've been coming here... 00:01:42.16\00:01:43.93 Long time. 00:01:44.63\00:01:45.20 Okay, that's a good way to say it, a long time. 00:01:45.67\00:01:48.30 Pastor Kelly, you've been coming here. 00:01:48.40\00:01:50.67 Yep, blessed. 00:01:50.97\00:01:51.54 Yeah, and so, we're glad that you're here. 00:01:51.94\00:01:54.24 I want you to introduce our other guests tonight who are 00:01:54.31\00:01:58.28 now our brothers and sisters. 00:01:58.28\00:01:59.51 That's right. 00:01:59.58\00:01:59.91 They always have been. 00:02:00.22\00:02:01.15 We just got to meet them tonight. 00:02:01.22\00:02:02.75 Yeah. 00:02:02.75\00:02:03.39 You know, we got Daniel and Kirsten, and so... 00:02:03.79\00:02:07.39 Sure. 00:02:07.39\00:02:08.29 I want to just thank you guys again, because honestly, 15 00:02:08.62\00:02:11.63 years ago when we were just starting out, you know, nobody 00:02:11.63\00:02:14.30 wanted to talk about this topic or touch it. 00:02:14.30\00:02:16.70 And you know what, Yvonne? 00:02:16.80\00:02:17.70 You were praying over us. 00:02:17.90\00:02:19.13 You just recorded our testimonies, and you said, I 00:02:19.17\00:02:21.90 believe that the Holy Spirit has more to say on this topic. 00:02:21.90\00:02:24.61 And through you and through 3ABN, we've done, I bet, at 00:02:25.04\00:02:29.24 least 100 different 30-minute programs and interviews. 00:02:29.24\00:02:32.08 Praise the Lord. 00:02:32.08\00:02:32.81 Yeah. 00:02:32.88\00:02:38.12 there and our message out there. 00:02:38.12\00:02:39.52 And because of your credibility, it's really opened 00:02:40.09\00:02:43.49 a lot of doors that otherwise would not have been opened for 00:02:43.49\00:02:45.73 us. 00:02:45.73\00:02:46.13 And what topic is it? 00:02:46.29\00:02:47.13 Praise the Lord. 00:02:47.13\00:02:47.83 It's about... 00:02:47.83\00:02:48.33 For our audience today. 00:02:48.33\00:02:49.13 Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:49.16\00:02:50.07 Thank you. 00:02:50.20\00:02:50.57 Sexual integrity. 00:02:50.70\00:02:51.63 And we started off, you know, basically talking about the ex 00:02:51.97\00:02:55.84 -LGBT message, because all of my colleagues and I had come 00:02:55.84\00:02:59.67 from LGBT lives. 00:02:59.67\00:03:01.31 I was transgender until I was 20, and then from 20 to 40, I 00:03:01.31\00:03:05.28 was in the gay culture, sexually addicted, you know, 00:03:05.28\00:03:07.95 all that kind of stuff. 00:03:08.02\00:03:08.88 So, you know, of course, in a church setting, that's really a 00:03:09.25\00:03:12.42 little off-putting. 00:03:12.42\00:03:13.62 But our ministry, I believe, is really vital because what we do 00:03:13.69\00:03:18.13 is we talk about sexuality in a way that's biblical, that's 00:03:18.13\00:03:22.50 redemptive, and in a way that I believe is kind of the elephant 00:03:22.50\00:03:26.10 in the room that really nobody is comfortable to talk about. 00:03:26.10\00:03:28.60 So we begin those conversations, you know, in 00:03:28.60\00:03:31.61 churches, schools, academies, university, any way that we're 00:03:31.61\00:03:35.34 invited. 00:03:35.34\00:03:35.84 Even with children, because you did a program for us with 00:03:36.51\00:03:39.68 children. 00:03:39.68\00:03:40.32 Thank you. 00:03:40.75\00:03:41.72 I was on the phone with you. 00:03:41.98\00:03:43.22 We were just catching up, and you're like, okay, okay, yeah, 00:03:43.22\00:03:46.15 we need a program on this, and boom, then it happens. 00:03:46.15\00:03:48.92 Praise the Lord. 00:03:49.32\00:03:50.16 Be real, be true, be you. 00:03:50.26\00:03:51.73 Be you. 00:03:51.76\00:03:52.23 That's right. 00:03:52.53\00:03:52.79 Amen. 00:03:52.79\00:03:56.83 ministries to... 00:03:56.83\00:03:57.60 To coming together ministries. 00:03:57.60\00:03:59.67 And the reason why is coming out ministries is really 00:03:59.80\00:04:02.34 connected to the LGBT thing. 00:04:02.34\00:04:04.64 And our ministry thought that just like the words that we 00:04:04.94\00:04:07.68 heard in Christianity is that homosexuality was something of 00:04:07.68\00:04:10.71 its own. 00:04:10.71\00:04:14.95 I was never gay. 00:04:15.02\00:04:15.78 But everything that you said is really victory over sin and 00:04:16.22\00:04:18.85 righteousness by faith. 00:04:19.22\00:04:20.12 So not only were their eyes open, but our eyes were, too. 00:04:20.56\00:04:23.26 And we realized that we weren't so separate from, you know, the 00:04:23.29\00:04:26.80 issues and that, you know, we were really all coming 00:04:26.80\00:04:29.00 together. 00:04:29.00\00:04:29.56 And again, you know, Ron, you were the one that basically 00:04:30.33\00:04:33.10 spearheaded that meeting. 00:04:33.10\00:04:34.24 And we decided, okay, it's time to change the ministry name. 00:04:34.30\00:04:36.91 And Hector, that's why we invited you to be with us 00:04:37.41\00:04:40.41 tonight. 00:04:40.41\00:04:43.55 identity. 00:04:43.55\00:04:44.11 And of course, you know, Daniel and Kirsten, you know, they're 00:04:44.78\00:04:48.52 this beautiful, young, vibrant, they're the new generation, you 00:04:48.52\00:04:52.72 know. 00:04:52.72\00:04:55.79 picking up the pieces and moving us forward. 00:04:55.79\00:04:58.03 So it's really a joy to have them with us as well. 00:04:58.39\00:05:00.80 That's great. 00:05:01.13\00:05:01.36 Go ahead. 00:05:02.30\00:05:05.03 here with us and the stories that you have of victory. 00:05:05.03\00:05:09.67 That's really key. 00:05:10.14\00:05:11.21 We love your ministry because you look at, you know, at 00:05:11.34\00:05:15.38 victory over sin. 00:05:15.38\00:05:17.01 And like you said, it's not just homosexuality. 00:05:17.41\00:05:19.98 It's just it's sin across the board because our default 00:05:20.95\00:05:23.65 setting is sin. 00:05:23.65\00:05:25.19 Right. 00:05:25.19\00:05:30.29 for the first time, I'm assuming when you came out and 00:05:30.29\00:05:34.36 said, you know, God can give us victory over any sin in our 00:05:34.36\00:05:39.23 life, including LGBTQ, whatever it is, that 100 percent of 00:05:39.23\00:05:44.21 every Christian, every Adventist church member said, 00:05:44.21\00:05:47.04 praise the Lord, we're behind you. 00:05:47.24\00:05:49.18 How am I doing? 00:05:49.18\00:05:50.15 We were hoping that it would be that way. 00:05:51.58\00:05:53.78 But unfortunately, there's there's still these these 00:05:53.78\00:05:57.49 divisions that are still in the church culture. 00:05:57.49\00:05:59.19 And one of the original ones was God hates gays. 00:05:59.29\00:06:03.02 Gays can't change. 00:06:03.06\00:06:04.13 And, you know, therefore we're reprobates and there's no hope 00:06:04.53\00:06:06.83 for us. 00:06:06.83\00:06:10.00 church culture because nobody had the answer. 00:06:10.00\00:06:12.07 And I thought, OK, I guess I'm doomed. 00:06:12.07\00:06:12.10 Now coming back into church culture, that is still alive 00:06:14.87\00:06:18.44 and well, unfortunately, and it is fading some. 00:06:18.44\00:06:20.84 There's a lot of cultural differences that Daniel, you 00:06:20.98\00:06:23.41 know, and Hector, you can also address. 00:06:23.41\00:06:26.05 But now what's happening is it's the pendulum has swung the 00:06:26.58\00:06:29.18 other way. 00:06:29.18\00:06:31.39 And because gays can't can't change, that's why God loves 00:06:31.49\00:06:34.49 them. 00:06:34.49\00:06:34.99 And so it's hate speech. 00:06:35.06\00:06:35.99 If you tell someone that they can change. 00:06:36.02\00:06:37.96 And so our ministry has been attacked from all sides and 00:06:38.26\00:06:42.33 from inside the church, from outside the church. 00:06:42.33\00:06:44.90 And yeah, God has really sustained us. 00:06:45.70\00:06:48.17 And yeah, it's been many, many different trials and 00:06:48.34\00:06:52.01 temptations. 00:06:52.01\00:06:56.04 how you got involved in this because you have passed church 00:06:56.04\00:07:00.15 and, you know, you know, this very controversial subject. 00:07:00.15\00:07:03.55 So what got you on board? 00:07:04.52\00:07:05.65 What got me involved was the awareness that there were 00:07:05.69\00:07:08.56 problems that weren't being addressed. 00:07:08.56\00:07:10.19 And when I watched the presentations by what was then 00:07:10.76\00:07:13.83 coming out ministries, this is the gospel in action. 00:07:13.83\00:07:16.83 I mean, these people are loving. 00:07:16.93\00:07:18.13 They're not condemning. 00:07:18.27\00:07:19.20 They are willing to address the issues. 00:07:19.53\00:07:21.30 They're tasteful. 00:07:21.30\00:07:22.50 And their testimonies are the tip of the spear for the 00:07:23.81\00:07:26.04 gospel, I think, in a sexualized culture. 00:07:26.04\00:07:28.31 And as I watch those testimonies and listen to them, 00:07:28.81\00:07:31.18 it's like, like 3ABN. 00:07:31.28\00:07:33.42 Let me give them a little bit of a platform. 00:07:33.62\00:07:35.25 Let me encourage them. 00:07:35.35\00:07:36.69 And besides, you've got all these things to get talked 00:07:36.92\00:07:39.65 about in secret that nobody wants to talk about. 00:07:39.65\00:07:42.02 And there's just a lot of people waiting for somebody to 00:07:42.29\00:07:44.53 say, let's talk about this. 00:07:44.53\00:07:46.43 And watching their persons, seeing their victories. 00:07:47.40\00:07:50.80 It's like, isn't this the church's job to help people 00:07:51.47\00:07:53.94 find freedom? 00:07:53.94\00:07:54.60 So, yeah, we started several years ago when they had Journey 00:07:55.14\00:07:58.31 Interrupted, which was one of their first documentary-type 00:07:58.31\00:08:00.71 films. 00:08:00.71\00:08:01.18 We debuted it in the Village Church, and it was the 00:08:01.81\00:08:05.91 beginning of a wonderful journey. 00:08:05.91\00:08:07.65 And I'm just so proud of this organization, how they can 00:08:07.85\00:08:11.99 endure a lot of suffering, like Michael said, comes from one 00:08:11.99\00:08:15.16 side in one phase, comes from another side in another phase. 00:08:15.16\00:08:18.23 But they're staying true, staying sweet, staying 00:08:18.23\00:08:21.00 beautiful. 00:08:21.00\00:08:21.66 You know what's interesting, I didn't realize until just now, 00:08:22.26\00:08:25.00 but Ron, you're the other half that, you know, you believed in 00:08:25.47\00:08:28.60 us. 00:08:28.60\00:08:33.44 with your reaction as well as with your reaction, because you 00:08:33.44\00:08:36.41 did believe in it, and you moved this issue forward in 00:08:36.41\00:08:39.58 your church. 00:08:39.58\00:08:43.15 for our ministry. 00:08:43.15\00:08:43.89 We wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for not only your 00:08:44.29\00:08:47.06 leadership, but I think also your insight to allow us to 00:08:47.06\00:08:50.53 have access to your pulpit, you know, which also goes around 00:08:50.53\00:08:53.19 the world, just like your ministry. 00:08:53.19\00:08:54.30 So it's like a little grateful club right now for me. 00:08:55.26\00:08:58.27 Well, it's a beautiful thing to be a part of something God is 00:08:58.27\00:09:00.87 doing. 00:09:00.87\00:09:01.14 And, you know, if God's doing it, you know it's going to be 00:09:02.50\00:09:05.17 resisted somewhere, but just like one of the plaques you 00:09:05.17\00:09:09.28 have in your foyer here called basically Keep On It, Your Life 00:09:09.28\00:09:12.05 Task out there. 00:09:12.05\00:09:12.81 I just took a picture of it. 00:09:12.91\00:09:14.02 If it's worth doing, it'll be resisted, but keep on. 00:09:14.58\00:09:17.59 So we've actually had a conference that we've been 00:09:18.85\00:09:21.12 doing. 00:09:21.12\00:09:24.29 you, you know, Pastor Kelly. 00:09:24.29\00:09:25.63 It has, I think it has built the momentum of what I've 00:09:26.39\00:09:30.60 always wanted our ministry to be, not only to have an office, 00:09:30.60\00:09:33.80 which we do now in Berrien Springs, Michigan, which that's 00:09:33.84\00:09:36.91 such a huge hallelujah. 00:09:36.91\00:09:37.84 I remember when this lady wanted to buy the building, we 00:09:38.27\00:09:42.38 said, we don't have any money, and she goes all over the place 00:09:42.38\00:09:44.61 and I go, oh great, we still don't have any money, and 00:09:44.61\00:09:47.55 within three months we had raised the money to actually 00:09:47.55\00:09:51.59 purchase this building and now we have, you know, salaries and 00:09:51.59\00:09:55.99 full -time people and a building and I mean, it's 00:09:55.99\00:09:59.56 really been amazing, you know, how God has really established 00:09:59.56\00:10:02.23 us and I think moved us into the next generation. 00:10:02.23\00:10:04.77 Well, he's building a team and it's multi-generational and 00:10:05.30\00:10:08.84 that only expands the power of the witness. 00:10:08.84\00:10:10.74 Amen. 00:10:11.87\00:10:12.41 Tell us a bit of your story, Daniel and Kirsten, because you 00:10:13.07\00:10:17.51 guys have a powerful testimony. 00:10:17.51\00:10:20.48 Let's start with you, Kirsten. 00:10:20.82\00:10:22.08 Yeah, so I was born and raised in the Adventist Church and I 00:10:22.28\00:10:28.82 also attended an Adventist school from kindergarten to 00:10:28.82\00:10:33.46 10th grade. 00:10:33.46\00:10:34.10 I was raised by a single mother, but my dad, he would be 00:10:34.56\00:10:40.04 showing his love as much as he could, so he would like call 00:10:42.87\00:10:46.88 and because my parents were separated, I would go with my 00:10:48.21\00:10:52.88 dad over the weekend, but I would always remember when I 00:10:52.88\00:10:57.35 would be dropped off at my mother's that I would feel this 00:10:57.35\00:11:01.36 deep sadness. 00:11:01.36\00:11:02.56 So as a little girl, six, seven years old. 00:11:02.82\00:11:05.49 Leaving your dad to go back to your mom? 00:11:05.49\00:11:07.40 Correct, yes. 00:11:07.40\00:11:08.73 And it felt like empty, like I wanted my parents to be 00:11:09.03\00:11:13.17 together, I wanted them, you know, that happy, perfect home 00:11:13.17\00:11:19.17 of having my parents both together. 00:11:19.17\00:11:21.34 But then fast forward that longiness of wanting to be 00:11:23.04\00:11:30.12 attached more with my father, the affirmation and attention, 00:11:30.12\00:11:35.16 and I was projecting that in romantic relationships. 00:11:35.16\00:11:39.29 So then once I was in college, those were my deep dark years. 00:11:40.16\00:11:47.17 So I did fall into pre-marital sex, and I never thought I 00:11:47.60\00:11:53.01 would find myself in that because I knew better. 00:11:53.01\00:11:56.91 I was raised in the church, school, that I should preserve 00:11:57.11\00:12:01.45 that special gift that God ordains in marriage. 00:12:01.45\00:12:04.72 And in those relationships is where I was getting, I guess, 00:12:05.92\00:12:10.56 that temporal feeling of affirmation, of attention, and 00:12:10.66\00:12:14.56 attention seeking of what I was missing with my father. 00:12:15.50\00:12:19.93 But it was through God's divine power that he severed that 00:12:20.87\00:12:26.54 relationship and that's where I began my wilderness experience. 00:12:26.54\00:12:31.48 And it was hard, you know, after a breakup, but that's 00:12:31.48\00:12:37.82 where I was finally able to say, wow, I'm single, I don't 00:12:37.82\00:12:41.76 need a man, but is that satisfaction when you have a 00:12:41.76\00:12:46.03 deep loving relationship with God that he does fill you, he 00:12:46.03\00:12:52.13 gives you purpose, he gives you life, and he gives you peace 00:12:52.13\00:12:55.17 that surpasses all understanding. 00:12:55.17\00:12:56.87 And I did find my identity in him. 00:12:57.67\00:13:01.64 So that was amazing. 00:13:02.11\00:13:05.31 And I remember I told, as I go, as a goal for myself, I said I 00:13:06.68\00:13:13.46 wouldn't court anyone until 2024, because for eight years 00:13:13.46\00:13:18.46 of my life, I was engaging in sexual activity. 00:13:18.46\00:13:21.80 And... 00:13:23.43\00:13:26.17 For the viewers to understand, not like you were hooking up or 00:13:26.74\00:13:29.77 anything, but you were in a committed relationship as a 00:13:29.77\00:13:33.71 Christian woman and still found yourself compromised. 00:13:33.71\00:13:37.08 Correct. 00:13:37.45\00:13:37.88 Yeah. 00:13:38.25\00:13:43.05 I'm happy with my friends, my family, my career, then that's 00:13:43.22\00:13:47.92 where then now my husband, that's how we were connecting. 00:13:47.92\00:13:55.03 Yes. 00:13:55.03\00:13:55.60 There's so many parts to their story, and I know you don't 00:13:57.43\00:14:00.24 have time, but what I really love is how you met Daniel and 00:14:00.24\00:14:04.24 he inspired you, you know, for purity, but you weren't even 00:14:04.24\00:14:08.58 friends, you just were acquaintances, and then years 00:14:08.58\00:14:11.01 later, something different happened. 00:14:11.01\00:14:12.35 Can you just talk about the Goliath wall? 00:14:12.65\00:14:14.48 Because I just love that story. 00:14:14.52\00:14:15.58 Yes. 00:14:16.75\00:14:21.39 University, and I moved out of state to attend, and I didn't 00:14:21.39\00:14:26.09 know anyone, and this was before my wilderness 00:14:26.09\00:14:30.27 experience, but it was also Delora, like, speaking to me, 00:14:30.27\00:14:35.07 like, you have to let this relationship go. 00:14:35.14\00:14:36.87 we were in the same class because we were studying for 00:14:39.64\00:14:42.38 social work, and there was this artist there on campus, and I 00:14:42.38\00:14:48.58 was like, wow, I want to attend this concert, but I was always 00:14:48.58\00:14:53.02 labeled as a shy, quiet girl, and I guess hourly is like good 00:14:53.02\00:14:57.83 girl, like an angel, but then, you know, my deep sins was 00:14:57.83\00:15:05.47 engaging in sexual activity, but so I went to this concert 00:15:05.47\00:15:10.84 and I didn't know anyone, and then I see Daniel, and I just 00:15:10.84\00:15:17.11 knew him because we had classes together, but he says that he 00:15:17.11\00:15:23.59 never saw me. 00:15:23.59\00:15:25.05 I was really focused on in my school, to be honest. 00:15:26.15\00:15:28.69 So I saw her there. 00:15:29.39\00:15:30.63 It was actually the day after my birthday in 2019 and I felt 00:15:30.63\00:15:35.33 impressed to share with her my testimony, which we can 00:15:35.33\00:15:37.67 probably get into the details of how God called me out of the 00:15:37.67\00:15:41.24 homosexual lifestyle, as well as other sins that the devil 00:15:41.24\00:15:45.91 really trapped me in and the temporary pleasures of the 00:15:45.91\00:15:48.84 world as well. 00:15:48.84\00:15:49.81 And so I shared with her my testimony and it was a very 00:15:50.05\00:15:54.18 good time. 00:15:54.18\00:15:59.15 people and they had like lottery tickets or something to 00:15:59.15\00:16:03.49 win a jacket. 00:16:03.49\00:16:04.59 And as I was sharing my testimony, and as I was sharing 00:16:04.63\00:16:08.30 my testimony, they called my name to win the jacket and I 00:16:08.30\00:16:12.60 felt like that was God like affirming like you're supposed 00:16:12.60\00:16:15.74 to be doing this right now and I'm like, okay, God. 00:16:15.74\00:16:17.97 And I wasn't interested in her then and there. 00:16:18.64\00:16:20.84 I was just wanting to share my testimony. 00:16:20.88\00:16:22.98 And at the end of that concert, I was looking into her eyes and 00:16:23.68\00:16:26.85 I found myself drawn to her and this thought crossed my mind 00:16:26.85\00:16:30.75 and it was like, this is gonna be your future wife. 00:16:30.75\00:16:32.92 And I rebuked that thought because I was not ready to 00:16:33.29\00:16:36.59 enter into a relationship. 00:16:36.59\00:16:37.89 I had literally just left the homosexual lifestyle and I was 00:16:38.39\00:16:42.46 just trying to follow what God had in store for me. 00:16:42.46\00:16:45.13 And he called me to a 12 step program to work on the lust 00:16:45.13\00:16:51.04 addiction. 00:16:51.04\00:16:51.61 And he also led me to a men's group as well in a church in 00:16:52.51\00:16:56.61 the Adventist Church. 00:16:56.61\00:16:57.41 And I started to feel loved and embraced by other men, other 00:16:58.05\00:17:02.32 godly men. 00:17:02.32\00:17:03.18 And actually, I was pretty resistant to join the group. 00:17:03.49\00:17:05.79 There was like some stereotypes about masculinity that was a 00:17:06.89\00:17:10.39 turn off to me. 00:17:10.39\00:17:11.23 And I remember I was cleaning the dishes and telling God how 00:17:11.66\00:17:14.63 I didn't want to join this men's group. 00:17:14.63\00:17:16.20 And I'm like, they just want to like chop wood and just be so 00:17:16.60\00:17:20.40 like something that I felt like I wasn't. 00:17:20.40\00:17:22.94 And I was complaining to the Lord. 00:17:23.27\00:17:24.77 And then the Holy Spirit lovingly, gently, but directly 00:17:25.34\00:17:28.71 humbled me and was like, you know, the men that are there, 00:17:28.71\00:17:32.51 they're not perfect. 00:17:32.78\00:17:33.88 They're not perfect. 00:17:33.98\00:17:34.72 But, you know, you're not a perfect man either. 00:17:35.22\00:17:37.09 And I just felt like he checked me and encouraged me to just 00:17:37.82\00:17:42.79 give it a try. 00:17:42.79\00:17:43.99 And through those connections and intimacy, I was learning to 00:17:43.99\00:17:47.86 be secure with myself because I had a lot of insecurities about 00:17:47.86\00:17:51.63 myself. 00:17:51.63\00:17:52.37 I had a lot of lies that I believed. 00:17:52.50\00:17:53.74 I thought that everything about me was because I was gay. 00:17:54.30\00:17:56.60 So I thought, you know, I'm intelligent because I'm gay. 00:17:56.74\00:17:59.21 I can communicate well because I'm gay. 00:17:59.24\00:18:00.88 I'm attractive because I'm gay. 00:18:00.91\00:18:02.21 And I don't honestly don't even know where I learned those 00:18:02.71\00:18:05.28 things from. 00:18:05.28\00:18:05.61 That's the mantra. 00:18:05.78\00:18:06.75 You know, everything that you do is gay. 00:18:07.32\00:18:08.98 So, oh, if you notice the pretty birds in the sky, oh, 00:18:09.25\00:18:11.45 that's gay. 00:18:11.45\00:18:14.26 oh, that's gay. 00:18:14.39\00:18:15.09 So you're so in... 00:18:15.72\00:18:17.69 What's the word for it? 00:18:17.69\00:18:18.79 It's in you. 00:18:18.99\00:18:19.76 It's a part of you. 00:18:19.86\00:18:20.83 So everything that you are is because you're gay. 00:18:21.13\00:18:23.33 So it's really difficult, I think, to break that, that 00:18:23.50\00:18:26.33 whole cycle. 00:18:26.33\00:18:27.34 And God was bringing you on that journey as well. 00:18:27.44\00:18:29.50 But let's get back to Kirsten for a second, because what was 00:18:30.17\00:18:34.24 really powerful is that they never saw each other again for 00:18:34.24\00:18:37.08 at least a year or two that I know of. 00:18:37.08\00:18:38.78 About three and a half years, yes. 00:18:38.78\00:18:41.58 And see, this is what blows my mind is Kirsten, that inspired 00:18:41.58\00:18:45.15 you. 00:18:45.15\00:18:48.32 with Daniel? 00:18:48.32\00:18:48.82 Yes. 00:18:48.99\00:18:49.52 So then I approach him. 00:18:49.56\00:18:52.36 I say, hey, my name is Kirsten. 00:18:52.63\00:18:54.56 Do you remember me? 00:18:54.60\00:18:55.70 We have classes together. 00:18:55.83\00:18:57.40 He said no, but then we just continued to go to the concert. 00:18:57.57\00:19:02.60 And he did share with me that he did leave his relationship. 00:19:02.77\00:19:07.51 And that inspired me because I was thinking if the Lord really 00:19:07.51\00:19:14.92 was able to, you know, empower him and he was able through his 00:19:14.92\00:19:19.55 freedom of choice, like leave that relationship behind, then 00:19:19.55\00:19:23.46 I can also. 00:19:23.46\00:19:24.59 And that so that was like a wake up call for me. 00:19:25.99\00:19:29.50 And yeah, like after that concert, like we didn't see 00:19:29.73\00:19:34.84 each other until three years. 00:19:34.84\00:19:36.50 And wasn't it wasn't that when you broke it off with the guy 00:19:36.50\00:19:39.47 you were seeing and you determined that you weren't 00:19:39.47\00:19:41.41 going to date? 00:19:41.41\00:19:42.24 No, but that was a seed that the Lord was. 00:19:42.38\00:19:44.88 OK. 00:19:44.88\00:19:45.15 Yeah. 00:19:45.41\00:19:45.78 Putting in me. 00:19:45.98\00:19:46.78 Yeah. 00:19:47.32\00:19:54.59 you didn't get. 00:19:54.59\00:19:55.49 You were seeking it from relationships that you didn't 00:19:56.36\00:19:58.96 get from your dad. 00:19:58.96\00:20:00.06 And I think it's really important for people. 00:20:00.90\00:20:03.77 This is an aside, but fathers are so important and the role 00:20:03.77\00:20:08.84 that fathers play in their children's lives is it cannot 00:20:08.84\00:20:12.94 be underestimated. 00:20:12.94\00:20:15.08 A godly man being a good dad is just it can't be 00:20:15.31\00:20:19.61 underestimated. 00:20:19.61\00:20:20.22 So you were looking for that. 00:20:20.52\00:20:22.12 Daniel, was your dad, did you have an attachment issue with 00:20:22.32\00:20:25.92 your dad? 00:20:25.92\00:20:26.42 I would say so. 00:20:26.72\00:20:27.92 I looked up to him and I also didn't feel like I could relate 00:20:27.92\00:20:32.69 to him in ways. 00:20:32.69\00:20:33.66 So my father is now retired, but he was in the military. 00:20:33.90\00:20:37.73 And so also being Hispanic, living in the South with a lot 00:20:38.50\00:20:42.20 of, I guess, stereotypical expectations of young boys and 00:20:42.20\00:20:46.68 men, especially when I was growing up. 00:20:46.68\00:20:48.28 So being into sports, you know, talking about girls, that sort 00:20:48.91\00:20:54.25 of thing, being more rough around the edges, play 00:20:54.25\00:20:56.89 fighting, all of that. 00:20:56.89\00:20:57.85 I just didn't feel like I could relate to that. 00:20:57.85\00:21:00.49 And at times my family would get on to me about my 00:21:00.49\00:21:03.99 mannerisms, the way that I would walk, the way that I 00:21:03.99\00:21:06.53 would talk. 00:21:06.53\00:21:09.86 about me was off, that it wasn't acceptable. 00:21:09.86\00:21:12.40 So that's, I think, where the root of the insecurity was 00:21:12.97\00:21:15.50 coming from. 00:21:15.50\00:21:16.44 And not having my father there in the environment I was in, 00:21:16.74\00:21:20.18 the examples of other men were not very positive. 00:21:20.44\00:21:24.58 From my perspective as a young boy, it just was a lot of the 00:21:24.58\00:21:30.52 men would objectify women, or I just felt too emotional as a 00:21:30.52\00:21:35.62 kid. 00:21:35.62\00:21:39.09 emotions. 00:21:39.09\00:21:39.76 And it just made me feel like I could relate more to the woman. 00:21:40.36\00:21:43.47 So I grew up with a mom, a sister, my grandmother, aunts. 00:21:43.70\00:21:48.37 So there was a lot of feminine energy, if you will, in my 00:21:48.50\00:21:51.61 family. 00:21:51.61\00:21:55.84 from, you know, touching more so with my mom. 00:21:55.84\00:21:58.31 And we see that there's a lot of homosexual men and as well 00:21:59.05\00:22:02.85 as women that they can detach from their same sex parent, 00:22:02.85\00:22:06.86 because that is part of a developmental milestone that a 00:22:06.92\00:22:10.13 lot of children need. 00:22:10.13\00:22:11.19 I'm not saying that's the reason why people are gay, but 00:22:11.33\00:22:13.63 that seems to be a common theme in our identity to development 00:22:13.63\00:22:17.37 that gets missed with those that experience LGBTQ 00:22:17.37\00:22:20.87 identification and feelings. 00:22:22.14\00:22:23.51 So. 00:22:23.51\00:22:24.37 So at what point did the switch go off for you two or on? 00:22:24.81\00:22:31.05 So I would say in GYC 2022, so it would have been about three 00:22:33.68\00:22:38.42 years and a half or so where I was invited to speak and share 00:22:38.42\00:22:42.49 my testimony with coming out ministries. 00:22:42.49\00:22:44.83 Well, can we tell that part a little bit? 00:22:44.93\00:22:46.53 Yeah, please. 00:22:46.53\00:22:49.56 Oh, he was actually in my house. 00:22:49.56\00:22:51.27 And I was asked to speak to these boys about pornography 00:22:51.27\00:22:54.24 addiction. 00:22:54.24\00:22:54.70 And Daniel wouldn't even look at me, speak to me, nothing to 00:22:55.50\00:22:58.47 me. 00:22:58.47\00:23:01.11 I'm like, OK, you know, so he never spoke to me ever. 00:23:01.24\00:23:04.38 But I knew you from 15 until you called me on that one day 00:23:04.51\00:23:08.55 that was in what, 2022? 00:23:08.55\00:23:10.15 Around there. 00:23:11.29\00:23:11.82 Yeah. 00:23:11.95\00:23:12.22 Yeah. 00:23:12.22\00:23:14.39 Yeah. 00:23:14.59\00:23:17.53 because I met Michael when I was 15. 00:23:17.53\00:23:19.66 I mean, I didn't know what to say. 00:23:19.66\00:23:20.73 But at this point in my life, the Lord was calling me to 00:23:21.16\00:23:23.26 share my testimony more publicly. 00:23:23.26\00:23:24.87 At first, I was doing more one on one as the Holy Spirit 00:23:25.07\00:23:27.40 impressed me. 00:23:27.40\00:23:28.40 And then my pastor, my church mentioned that they were going 00:23:28.67\00:23:33.01 to have sharing their testimony night. 00:23:33.01\00:23:34.81 And so I felt impressed that I needed to share, but I just 00:23:35.68\00:23:39.05 waited. 00:23:39.05\00:23:40.38 I don't know. 00:23:40.48\00:23:42.28 And I don't want I don't know what to say. 00:23:42.68\00:23:44.95 So I waited until like, I think Sunday. 00:23:45.52\00:23:48.99 And you need a confirmation by Monday. 00:23:48.99\00:23:50.86 And I'm like, surely all the spots have been taken. 00:23:50.96\00:23:52.76 So when I called my pastor, he said there was one spot left. 00:23:52.86\00:23:56.30 So I knew, OK, all right, Lord, you want me to share. 00:23:56.30\00:24:00.17 So I felt like I needed support. 00:24:01.00\00:24:03.07 And I don't hear a lot of people talk about these types 00:24:03.14\00:24:05.94 of vulnerable stories or they get really general and people 00:24:05.94\00:24:09.71 really don't know what they went through. 00:24:09.71\00:24:12.25 And so I called up Michael Carducci and I asked him, I 00:24:12.51\00:24:16.12 said, So can God speak to someone who's actively in the 00:24:16.12\00:24:20.72 homosexual lifestyle? 00:24:20.72\00:24:21.86 Such a great question. 00:24:22.76\00:24:23.89 I said, of course, you know, that's how God spoke to me. 00:24:24.33\00:24:26.66 And so then you proceeded to tell me your story. 00:24:26.86\00:24:28.80 You were already living on your own, you know, after you've 00:24:28.86\00:24:32.00 been living with your boyfriend and in student housing at this 00:24:32.00\00:24:35.50 Christian university. 00:24:35.50\00:24:36.50 I still don't understand that one, but it's an amazing part 00:24:36.94\00:24:39.87 of your story. 00:24:39.87\00:24:43.24 testimony because you had a trip in that area already. 00:24:43.24\00:24:46.98 So the Lord was lining everything up, as well as my 00:24:46.98\00:24:49.92 dad and my sister. 00:24:49.92\00:24:51.09 My dad was visiting my sister in that area, too. 00:24:51.29\00:24:53.62 So they were able to see me share for the first time. 00:24:53.62\00:24:56.52 Michael was there and his dad was crying. 00:24:56.76\00:24:58.76 So it was a very powerful experience of just following 00:24:59.26\00:25:04.13 the path that God had outlined for me. 00:25:04.13\00:25:06.53 And a month later, we were recording for Strategies for 00:25:07.17\00:25:09.94 Strongholds, which was a program that you, you know, 00:25:09.94\00:25:12.37 helped us to to produce. 00:25:12.44\00:25:14.14 Yeah. 00:25:15.01\00:25:16.58 Do you remember what you said when we were recording all of 00:25:16.81\00:25:19.08 the 24 testimonies and interviews that were going to 00:25:19.08\00:25:22.35 make his the first? 00:25:22.35\00:25:23.55 You came to me and says, this one is the one we're going to 00:25:23.62\00:25:25.45 make first. 00:25:25.45\00:25:26.05 Yeah. 00:25:26.52\00:25:30.33 where he had me, where I was. 00:25:30.33\00:25:31.96 I mean, to this, you know, it's such a I'm like dumbfounded 00:25:32.09\00:25:35.53 with the grace of God and his love and his power to really 00:25:35.53\00:25:38.83 transform. 00:25:38.83\00:25:39.57 But to answer your question, it wasn't necessarily a switch. 00:25:40.04\00:25:42.80 I guess there was an obsession that was lifted when I was 00:25:43.54\00:25:47.58 going through 12 step and experiencing restoration 00:25:47.58\00:25:50.28 through because I was also addicted to pornography. 00:25:51.28\00:25:53.68 It was engaging in masturbation as well. 00:25:53.78\00:25:55.78 And I didn't know how to be freed from it. 00:25:56.18\00:25:58.19 I had been exposed to poor when I was eight. 00:25:58.19\00:26:00.36 And I just I would go to that as a way to cope. 00:26:00.99\00:26:04.06 And it just quickly became a really bad habit and to the 00:26:04.13\00:26:07.00 point where I just couldn't stop. 00:26:07.00\00:26:08.20 So going through that program and learning the principles of 00:26:08.20\00:26:12.93 restoration and surrender, I started to not see men in a 00:26:12.93\00:26:17.97 sexualized way. 00:26:17.97\00:26:19.17 And I would still feel a polar temptation, but I was learning 00:26:19.87\00:26:23.68 to say no and just submit myself to God. 00:26:23.68\00:26:26.88 Like it says, submit yourself to God, resist the devil and he 00:26:26.92\00:26:30.05 will flee from you. 00:26:30.05\00:26:31.15 And that promise, I would cling on to that. 00:26:31.42\00:26:33.39 I would also cling on to Romans 12, two, which talks about do 00:26:33.49\00:26:37.26 not be conformed with the behaviors and customs of this 00:26:37.26\00:26:40.00 world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. 00:26:40.00\00:26:42.83 And then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is 00:26:42.86\00:26:45.57 good and pleasing and perfect. 00:26:45.57\00:26:47.07 So that was one of the two of the promises I would always 00:26:47.34\00:26:51.47 claim in my prayer time. 00:26:51.47\00:26:52.71 And I was experiencing just feeling more joy, feeling at 00:26:53.24\00:26:57.38 peace. 00:26:57.38\00:26:58.05 So I would say that that was part of it. 00:26:58.31\00:27:00.12 And then in 2022, when I was sharing my testimony at GYC, I 00:27:00.12\00:27:00.15 would pray and I was eight months after he did her 00:27:05.42\00:27:08.69 program. 00:27:08.69\00:27:09.22 You were fast track, Daniel. 00:27:09.59\00:27:10.93 God was fast track. 00:27:10.99\00:27:11.93 Yeah. 00:27:12.33\00:27:12.46 And I was just following him, you know, just whatever, 00:27:13.50\00:27:16.33 whatever he wanted me to do. 00:27:16.60\00:27:17.83 I was in my prayer closet, reading my Bible, getting 00:27:17.83\00:27:21.00 plugged into my church community, telling my friends 00:27:21.00\00:27:23.61 like, I don't know. 00:27:23.61\00:27:24.44 I didn't do anything. 00:27:24.44\00:27:27.88 journey. 00:27:27.88\00:27:28.28 You showed up. 00:27:28.31\00:27:28.91 So because he was showing up for me. 00:27:29.71\00:27:31.58 God was really present and his love was palpable. 00:27:31.81\00:27:34.28 And I couldn't resist it. 00:27:34.28\00:27:36.48 So so to answer your question, when we met at GYC the second 00:27:37.99\00:27:44.09 time, I would pray and I would ask God, Lord, I don't know who 00:27:44.09\00:27:48.56 to hang out with. 00:27:48.56\00:27:49.10 I don't know anybody here. 00:27:49.20\00:27:50.40 Please show me who to hang out with. 00:27:50.90\00:27:52.70 Here comes Kirsten, you know, just walking three and a half 00:27:52.97\00:27:57.44 years later. 00:27:57.44\00:27:58.24 Wow. 00:27:58.71\00:27:59.27 And we would just have casual, nice conversation. 00:27:59.77\00:28:02.21 I would say we were connecting on a couple of different levels 00:28:02.21\00:28:07.32 intellectually and emotionally at first, just talking about 00:28:07.32\00:28:10.59 her family, her passions, like we both were working as social 00:28:10.59\00:28:13.76 work therapists and just about God and just good general 00:28:13.76\00:28:18.06 conversation. 00:28:18.06\00:28:22.60 reasons. 00:28:22.60\00:28:23.50 And then I started to have these feelings and I would have 00:28:23.77\00:28:26.67 these sexual thoughts towards her. 00:28:26.67\00:28:28.50 And I'm like, what's going on with me? 00:28:28.74\00:28:30.04 Like, this is strange for me. 00:28:30.04\00:28:30.07 Maybe other men may not have, you know, those types of 00:28:32.97\00:28:36.51 thoughts of it, that being strange, you know, still, you 00:28:36.51\00:28:39.21 don't want to entertain those thoughts. 00:28:39.21\00:28:40.28 But for me, that was strange. 00:28:40.32\00:28:42.52 So I'm like, is this loss? 00:28:42.55\00:28:44.25 I'm surrendering it. 00:28:44.69\00:28:45.82 I'm just trying to let it go. 00:28:45.85\00:28:47.46 And then she crossed my path again. 00:28:48.26\00:28:50.16 Whenever I would pray, Lord, show me who I should hang out 00:28:50.86\00:28:53.19 with. 00:28:53.19\00:28:53.66 And would you like to add? 00:28:53.93\00:28:54.96 So in my mind, this is where I already had told the Lord, 00:28:55.66\00:28:59.10 Lord, I'm not going to date anyone until 2024. 00:28:59.10\00:29:01.90 So I'm focused. 00:29:02.20\00:29:04.04 I'm not. 00:29:04.61\00:29:05.34 But I did enjoy the company because, yeah, we were 00:29:05.71\00:29:08.21 connecting intellectually and so forth. 00:29:08.21\00:29:10.25 But I did not initially see him as attractive. 00:29:10.31\00:29:12.81 No, I was just like, that's my good classmate. 00:29:13.05\00:29:15.58 And, you know, it's just having a good time together. 00:29:15.98\00:29:17.75 Just a platonic conversation. 00:29:17.85\00:29:19.35 And that's it. 00:29:19.39\00:29:20.39 She said to her, so she's not going to date until 2024. 00:29:20.59\00:29:22.52 So she was very she had like a wall. 00:29:22.86\00:29:25.03 Yeah. 00:29:25.26\00:29:25.63 Yeah. 00:29:26.06\00:29:26.23 Everything was just a lot of she was not interested. 00:29:27.20\00:29:30.60 And I started to behave strangely there, too. 00:29:31.00\00:29:33.34 I remember one time there was a group of guys and she was 00:29:33.34\00:29:38.34 talking to them. 00:29:38.34\00:29:40.88 pursue. 00:29:40.88\00:29:43.31 Nice to meet you. 00:29:43.41\00:29:44.11 My name is Daniel. 00:29:44.18\00:29:44.88 I can meet you. 00:29:45.08\00:29:45.71 And I shook their hand. 00:29:45.91\00:29:46.68 I'm like, what is going on with me? 00:29:46.68\00:29:48.08 Were you a little jealous? 00:29:48.18\00:29:49.18 Were you feeling? 00:29:49.42\00:29:51.85 Like, OK, I don't. 00:29:52.65\00:29:53.96 Joking for your position. 00:29:54.16\00:29:55.39 I guess so. 00:29:55.39\00:29:56.32 That was so strange for me because I don't normally behave 00:29:56.56\00:29:59.29 that way. 00:29:59.29\00:30:02.20 let me know. 00:30:02.20\00:30:02.83 Like, yes. 00:30:02.83\00:30:02.86 So that, you know, she didn't engage with me, I guess, that 00:30:06.33\00:30:09.74 day. 00:30:09.74\00:30:10.14 And would you like to share how I dropped the bomb on you? 00:30:11.14\00:30:13.34 Yes. 00:30:14.14\00:30:19.15 And again, we're having a good conversation. 00:30:20.48\00:30:22.88 And I don't know why I just thought about asking him, are 00:30:22.88\00:30:28.99 you interested in anyone? 00:30:28.99\00:30:30.59 But I wasn't saying that as me trying to make a move. 00:30:30.96\00:30:33.66 Yeah, I just I don't know, I felt comfortable to ask. 00:30:34.00\00:30:37.20 And I did not know what he was going to say. 00:30:37.27\00:30:39.87 And then. 00:30:40.20\00:30:41.00 So when she asked me that, I forgot to share that at some 00:30:41.40\00:30:44.97 point, God reminded me that she fit the list that I was praying 00:30:44.97\00:30:49.11 for in a wife, because God asked me to pray for a wife in 00:30:49.11\00:30:51.98 August 2022. 00:30:51.98\00:30:53.11 Well, can you mind just adding, because for me, I think it's so 00:30:54.35\00:30:57.52 vital. 00:30:57.52\00:31:00.59 expect grandchildren. 00:31:00.59\00:31:01.42 I'm not getting married. 00:31:01.59\00:31:02.39 I'm celibate for Jesus. 00:31:02.46\00:31:03.69 I mean, you were you were disciplined. 00:31:03.79\00:31:05.76 I was aggressively a single looking. 00:31:05.99\00:31:10.30 I was not interested. 00:31:10.57\00:31:11.63 There were some opportunities, but I wasn't genuinely 00:31:11.70\00:31:15.10 attracted to women. 00:31:15.10\00:31:16.20 Honestly, I'm like, there's these beautiful, godly women at 00:31:16.64\00:31:18.61 my church, but I'm not drawn to them. 00:31:18.61\00:31:21.61 I wish I just wasn't. 00:31:21.91\00:31:23.14 So I concluded I'm still homosexual and I have to live 00:31:23.31\00:31:27.22 my life for God. 00:31:27.22\00:31:28.18 And he's given me community. 00:31:28.25\00:31:29.52 He's given me purpose. 00:31:29.92\00:31:30.85 I have a professional life and I'm content. 00:31:30.85\00:31:30.89 So that's what I would tell myself. 00:31:33.96\00:31:35.26 And I started to feel a little lonely. 00:31:35.36\00:31:38.43 And I started to just ask God, Lord, you've changed my 00:31:38.76\00:31:42.13 lifestyle. 00:31:42.13\00:31:45.70 out with. 00:31:45.70\00:31:46.40 What about the gay thing? 00:31:47.00\00:31:48.84 Can you change that? 00:31:48.97\00:31:50.07 And it started with that, just kind of having conversations 00:31:50.21\00:31:52.97 with God. 00:31:52.97\00:31:53.61 And I started to notice Christian couples. 00:31:54.11\00:31:56.31 And so, like yourself, I would see a Christian couple and 00:31:57.28\00:32:00.62 think, wow, they seem like a nice, godly couple. 00:32:00.62\00:32:02.88 But then I'm like, what am I thinking? 00:32:03.32\00:32:04.65 And I just would have these thoughts. 00:32:06.96\00:32:09.06 And then I started to have a curiosity to have something 00:32:10.03\00:32:13.09 like that, to have a life partner who accepted me and 00:32:13.09\00:32:17.07 loved me and I can love and accept them and to do life 00:32:17.07\00:32:19.80 together. 00:32:19.80\00:32:20.27 But then I would just kind of brush it off until God 00:32:22.34\00:32:25.44 convicted me. 00:32:25.44\00:32:26.64 And he told me that he could do the impossible. 00:32:26.88\00:32:29.34 And I laughed at God, kind of how other people in the Bible, 00:32:31.11\00:32:35.32 they laughed at God. 00:32:35.52\00:32:36.18 I think Sarah, she laughed at God too. 00:32:36.42\00:32:38.19 And I just had some unbelief that I didn't think he could 00:32:38.55\00:32:41.26 change somebody like me. 00:32:41.26\00:32:42.76 So, he told me to pray for a wife. 00:32:43.43\00:32:45.03 So, I asked him to inspire me with qualities that would make 00:32:45.09\00:32:48.33 a great future wife for me, because clearly I didn't know 00:32:48.33\00:32:50.77 how to pick. 00:32:50.77\00:32:51.50 I had lived a homosexual lifestyle, so I didn't really 00:32:51.93\00:32:55.60 know what love really was. 00:32:55.60\00:32:56.71 So, at this point, fast forward to she asked me at dinner at 00:32:57.31\00:33:02.61 GYC, and I knew that she fit the bill of the qualities that 00:33:02.61\00:33:07.28 would make a wonderful wife and beautiful marriage. 00:33:07.28\00:33:10.39 And so, I thought, should I tell her the rule or should I 00:33:10.39\00:33:13.39 just not say anything right now? 00:33:13.39\00:33:15.59 And I'm like, well, I have nothing to lose. 00:33:15.59\00:33:16.99 I'm only here to share my testimony. 00:33:19.93\00:33:21.90 You know everything about me. 00:33:22.00\00:33:23.16 But I think you have great qualities that would make a 00:33:23.97\00:33:26.77 wonderful wife. 00:33:26.77\00:33:27.37 And I'm interested in you. 00:33:27.37\00:33:27.40 I was really direct. 00:33:30.84\00:33:32.17 I've heard other stories where some guys, they've manipulated 00:33:32.57\00:33:36.11 or they try to say, God told me you're going to be my wife. 00:33:36.11\00:33:38.21 And people make mistakes and such. 00:33:38.58\00:33:40.25 So, we didn't rush into anything. 00:33:40.35\00:33:42.95 Internally, I just wanted to like leave, run away. 00:33:46.22\00:33:49.02 But I just, a generic response telling him, okay, thank you. 00:33:51.26\00:33:56.20 And I think you're a good individual, too. 00:33:56.23\00:33:58.50 And, you know, just leave it at that. 00:33:59.17\00:34:00.60 Very clinical. 00:34:01.00\00:34:01.97 Is that called the friend zone? 00:34:03.07\00:34:04.64 Is that when you friend zone something? 00:34:05.51\00:34:06.68 Clinical. 00:34:07.28\00:34:07.74 She kept it very, I'm like, okay, what do you think? 00:34:09.11\00:34:11.48 And she was just like no emotion. 00:34:12.78\00:34:15.38 So I'm like, okay. 00:34:15.52\00:34:16.55 But she still wanted to go for a walk. 00:34:17.09\00:34:19.05 So I'm like, if you didn't like what I said in my mind, why 00:34:19.49\00:34:23.26 would you still want to hang out? 00:34:23.26\00:34:24.59 But you still, would you like to share what you think about 00:34:25.16\00:34:27.36 that? 00:34:27.36\00:34:27.86 I think it's just like a friend, a good friend. 00:34:28.30\00:34:31.07 And that's how I was seeing him. 00:34:31.10\00:34:33.20 And also because I had that goal, I'm like, it is not time 00:34:33.20\00:34:37.34 yet. 00:34:37.34\00:34:37.61 It's not 24 yet. 00:34:37.87\00:34:39.01 So I'm like, no, I'm not going to start or lead someone. 00:34:39.74\00:34:43.31 And then, you know, it might not work out. 00:34:43.55\00:34:46.65 So that's where my head was at. 00:34:46.65\00:34:48.68 So she's very firm with her boundaries. 00:34:49.35\00:34:51.49 And I told her, too, that I wasn't trying to rush anything. 00:34:51.52\00:34:54.59 I wanted to be intentional friends. 00:34:54.69\00:34:56.42 I didn't want to stay as friends, but I wanted to pray 00:34:56.79\00:34:59.26 and see how God wanted to lead our relationship. 00:34:59.26\00:35:01.40 So that's basically the beginning of our testimony. 00:35:01.86\00:35:04.53 But yes, God allowed us to be intentional friends for a 00:35:04.53\00:35:08.64 couple of months, I think five months or so, and then we 00:35:08.64\00:35:11.94 courted and then we got married. 00:35:11.94\00:35:14.34 And he gave us confirmations throughout the way. 00:35:14.71\00:35:17.11 Would you like to share maybe one or two confirmations? 00:35:17.48\00:35:19.81 Yeah. 00:35:20.02\00:35:25.12 working in him of putting together this list of qualities 00:35:25.12\00:35:28.66 for a wife. 00:35:28.66\00:35:29.89 He also was working with me in the sense that I was together 00:35:30.49\00:35:37.43 with my friends, female friends, you know, just talking 00:35:37.43\00:35:40.27 about life. 00:35:40.27\00:35:41.24 And then one of my friends told me, Kirsten, you know, what do 00:35:41.67\00:35:47.74 you think about if there's like a godly man that's loving, you 00:35:47.74\00:35:51.68 know, has all these great qualities, but had a past life 00:35:51.68\00:35:56.45 being gay? 00:35:56.45\00:35:57.22 And I never thought about that question before, but I wasn't 00:35:57.72\00:36:01.96 like, absolutely not. 00:36:01.96\00:36:03.46 And so I think that was also just the Lord putting a seed in 00:36:03.66\00:36:08.26 me also. 00:36:08.26\00:36:09.03 And my friend, when she asked me this question, it wasn't 00:36:09.50\00:36:11.80 like she was going around asking everybody, it was 00:36:11.80\00:36:14.57 specifically to me. 00:36:14.57\00:36:15.24 Does she know Daniel? 00:36:15.24\00:36:16.14 No, no. 00:36:16.54\00:36:17.74 And I hadn't even had no conversations with him before 00:36:18.17\00:36:22.58 either. 00:36:22.58\00:36:27.85 And another major confirmation after about three months of 00:36:28.98\00:36:32.75 being intentional friends, she invited me to go to this 00:36:32.75\00:36:36.29 conference called Love in the Making, which is kind of ironic 00:36:36.29\00:36:38.59 because God was literally creating like love between us 00:36:38.59\00:36:41.96 and we were really growing closer as good friends. 00:36:41.96\00:36:44.47 And really, I would say I was falling in love very quick. 00:36:44.80\00:36:48.17 And the speaker for this conference, he actually used to 00:36:49.90\00:36:53.34 be gay and him and his wife were going to be sharing. 00:36:53.34\00:36:56.98 And I'm like, wow, when do you see speakers that they had that 00:36:57.05\00:37:00.55 background? 00:37:00.55\00:37:03.22 We had a chance to meet them. 00:37:03.59\00:37:04.85 And actually, I think Miguel and his wife, Christina, I 00:37:05.32\00:37:08.06 think they were also on an episode, I believe. 00:37:08.06\00:37:10.89 That's right. 00:37:10.89\00:37:11.49 Dare to dream. 00:37:11.66\00:37:12.23 So we had a chance to connect with them. 00:37:13.13\00:37:15.30 And those are just two confirmations that God had 00:37:15.36\00:37:18.23 revealed to us in our journey because I know sometimes people 00:37:18.23\00:37:21.94 may try to force something that's not there. 00:37:21.94\00:37:25.27 And so we really wanted his direction for our life. 00:37:25.41\00:37:28.48 So after we got married, May of last year, 2024, it's going to 00:37:28.98\00:37:34.52 be a year or 24. 00:37:34.52\00:37:35.58 Yeah. 00:37:36.75\00:37:37.09 Isn't that funny? 00:37:37.25\00:37:37.72 She was really not trying to... 00:37:38.05\00:37:38.75 Wait, this is unfair. 00:37:38.75\00:37:39.45 There's one detail that I love about their story because it 00:37:39.99\00:37:42.99 really just to me, it just really shows how Daniel's like, 00:37:42.99\00:37:45.73 you know, pursue, pursue, pursue. 00:37:45.73\00:37:47.23 And Kirsten's like, resist, resist, resist. 00:37:47.60\00:37:49.43 Because Kirsten, you were on this path of purity and Daniel 00:37:50.90\00:37:55.40 is feeling his manhood. 00:37:55.40\00:37:56.84 And there still was like a conflict there going. 00:37:56.84\00:38:00.48 And when she told me this part of the story, I looked at 00:38:00.81\00:38:02.94 Kirsten and I go, that girl's discipline. 00:38:02.94\00:38:05.45 Like that was really powerful. 00:38:05.81\00:38:06.92 Will you share that place? 00:38:07.02\00:38:08.02 Yeah. 00:38:08.28\00:38:14.09 And I guess to others, it could be very extreme. 00:38:14.29\00:38:17.39 So when we did see each other at Love in the Making, like we 00:38:18.23\00:38:21.40 had spoke about like boundaries, physical 00:38:21.40\00:38:24.93 boundaries, because in my mind, I'm like, no, the Lord has 00:38:24.93\00:38:28.87 really restored me. 00:38:28.87\00:38:30.24 I don't want to go back and repeat history. 00:38:30.47\00:38:33.44 So I was super, super cautious, like a mile away. 00:38:33.74\00:38:37.25 Like I don't want to be close, not even an inch. 00:38:37.31\00:38:40.05 So when I had dropped him off at the airport, I was just 00:38:41.35\00:38:46.69 impressed to tell Daniel, like, look, Daniel, if there's 00:38:46.69\00:38:50.16 anything that happens between us, like sexually, strike one, 00:38:50.16\00:38:53.70 you're out. 00:38:53.83\00:38:54.40 Like, no, no, not at all. 00:38:54.40\00:38:56.87 So when she said that, I felt very more attracted to her, 00:38:57.77\00:39:03.14 like more like, wow, she really respects herself. 00:39:03.44\00:39:05.57 Like she's a true like wife material and okay, because yes, 00:39:05.61\00:39:10.51 some of the boundaries are kind of too strict for my liking. 00:39:10.85\00:39:13.01 Like I wanted to put my arm around her, you know, like 00:39:13.21\00:39:15.48 touch your hand. 00:39:15.48\00:39:16.28 And so we were also long distance. 00:39:16.55\00:39:18.49 So even to this day, it's in the back of my mind. 00:39:18.55\00:39:21.46 Okay, when we're in public, you know, like no touchy touchy, I 00:39:21.59\00:39:24.39 like it. 00:39:24.39\00:39:25.19 Like I do. 00:39:25.43\00:39:26.43 So yeah, that was something that we had to work through, 00:39:27.66\00:39:30.90 especially we want to respect each other's boundaries then. 00:39:31.03\00:39:33.20 But yeah, that was something that really brought her up even 00:39:34.04\00:39:36.57 more for me. 00:39:36.57\00:39:37.24 That's what I love about it. 00:39:37.34\00:39:38.67 While she was holding on to the principle, not knowing what his 00:39:38.81\00:39:41.44 reaction would be, she didn't even realize it. 00:39:41.44\00:39:43.85 But when she put the brakes on all of that, for him, it was 00:39:43.85\00:39:46.78 like, go, go, go even more. 00:39:46.78\00:39:48.52 It's like, she is the one, right? 00:39:48.65\00:39:50.12 Yeah. 00:39:50.12\00:39:50.15 that you're a princess and you're to be valued and 00:39:54.06\00:39:56.66 respected and to put those boundaries up can actually make 00:39:56.66\00:40:00.40 you even more attractive to someone. 00:40:00.40\00:40:02.56 And so I think that a lot of our young girls, you know, 00:40:02.83\00:40:04.97 because they don't know their value, you know, they end up in 00:40:05.00\00:40:07.57 compromising situations. 00:40:07.57\00:40:08.70 But their story to me really helps to affirm everyone's 00:40:08.87\00:40:12.24 value. 00:40:12.24\00:40:12.67 And also for the young men, if I can add to, you know, just 00:40:13.48\00:40:16.54 because you have sexual desires for a woman, like you're not 00:40:16.54\00:40:19.08 defined by that either. 00:40:19.08\00:40:19.88 You're not animalistic. 00:40:19.88\00:40:21.48 You don't have to give in. 00:40:21.55\00:40:23.42 And even though it might feel like it, you can resist. 00:40:23.69\00:40:26.12 God does give the power to do that. 00:40:26.22\00:40:27.79 And you don't have to beat yourself up and feel ashamed 00:40:27.79\00:40:27.82 for having attractions because even in the word of God, it 00:40:30.33\00:40:33.06 says that Jesus was tempted and out points as we yet without 00:40:33.06\00:40:35.83 sin. 00:40:35.83\00:40:39.97 judgment, pray for wisdom because God will, he promises 00:40:39.97\00:40:42.47 to give that wisdom. 00:40:42.47\00:40:43.47 And if you know you're tempted with certain things, then don't 00:40:43.91\00:40:47.01 be around it. 00:40:47.01\00:40:50.75 trying to take moves on you and don't make moves on them 00:40:50.75\00:40:53.82 because that's not alignment with God's word. 00:40:53.82\00:40:56.28 And we know that true joy and peace really is in alignment 00:40:56.35\00:41:00.26 with God's principles. 00:41:00.26\00:41:01.76 He designed us to live in eternity and breaking those 00:41:01.96\00:41:05.19 boundaries only is deception at the end of the day. 00:41:05.19\00:41:08.56 The grass is not greener on that side of things. 00:41:09.06\00:41:11.67 That's good. 00:41:11.80\00:41:12.53 That's powerful, isn't it? 00:41:12.57\00:41:14.14 Can I ask a question? 00:41:14.40\00:41:15.57 Yeah. 00:41:15.57\00:41:18.84 married, this is a question. 00:41:18.84\00:41:19.91 I want to know, Kirsten, when was it that Daniel stepped into 00:41:20.28\00:41:23.04 the driver's seat? 00:41:23.04\00:41:24.28 Like when was it that you were like, okay, I think I do love 00:41:24.31\00:41:27.18 this guy. 00:41:27.18\00:41:30.09 Because, you know, you went from dating and resisting to 00:41:30.25\00:41:32.65 boom, you're married. 00:41:32.65\00:41:33.46 You know, I know that there's a little bit more in between. 00:41:33.86\00:41:36.16 So the Lord had to really speak to me because I dedicated like 00:41:36.93\00:41:41.10 Lord, no, like in your time. 00:41:41.10\00:41:43.23 And I guess I had put a time and not allow God to put his 00:41:43.23\00:41:48.17 time. 00:41:48.17\00:41:58.31 that really cared about my journey and spiritual life, and 00:41:58.31\00:42:02.92 they knew about my past as well. 00:42:02.92\00:42:04.59 So I had one friend of mine, he saw like the journey, like 00:42:05.42\00:42:10.59 after the breakup, you know, I was depressed and a roller 00:42:10.59\00:42:14.46 coaster. 00:42:14.46\00:42:19.97 making. 00:42:19.97\00:42:25.11 And he said that, you know, Kirsten, I have been praying 00:42:25.94\00:42:29.88 for you for a while. 00:42:29.88\00:42:31.35 And I was impressed to remove you from my prayer list because 00:42:31.38\00:42:35.78 I've seen how the Lord has really restored you, given you 00:42:35.78\00:42:38.92 his identity. 00:42:38.92\00:42:39.85 And I think you should give him a chance. 00:42:40.32\00:42:44.39 Praise the Lord for that brother. 00:42:45.09\00:42:46.73 And then just also seeing how the qualities that he was 00:42:49.70\00:42:54.34 displaying, like he was very caring, very godly. 00:42:54.34\00:42:58.67 Whenever we would talk on the phone, because we were long 00:42:58.67\00:42:58.71 distance, he would always initiate prayer and he was 00:43:02.11\00:43:05.78 honest. 00:43:05.78\00:43:06.78 And so just seeing that of itself was what I was longing 00:43:06.98\00:43:11.65 for in my other relationships. 00:43:11.65\00:43:13.39 And I guess in the other relationships I was forcing it 00:43:13.39\00:43:16.56 and I wasn't allowing God to lead me. 00:43:16.56\00:43:20.40 And so it was actually, yeah, the Lord had to really be like, 00:43:21.03\00:43:25.60 okay, just take that leap of faith. 00:43:25.77\00:43:28.34 And because there was some other confirmations as well, 00:43:29.14\00:43:32.21 but those were like the main ones for me. 00:43:32.21\00:43:34.44 That's amazing. 00:43:35.14\00:43:36.08 So what response have you gotten from people about your 00:43:36.34\00:43:41.82 relationship? 00:43:41.82\00:43:42.52 Have you gotten resistance, for example, Daniel, from people 00:43:43.15\00:43:46.82 who are still living the homosexual lifestyle and 00:43:46.82\00:43:49.02 saying, oh, you can't change or whatever? 00:43:49.02\00:43:51.43 I mean, what kind of responses have you both gotten about your 00:43:51.63\00:43:55.00 marriage? 00:43:55.00\00:43:55.36 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:43:55.80\00:43:57.03 And we actually talked about this. 00:43:57.37\00:43:58.67 And in general, when we share, most people don't come up to us 00:43:59.07\00:44:02.74 and say anything negative necessarily. 00:44:02.74\00:44:05.54 But I do have friends and know people on social media and such 00:44:07.11\00:44:11.08 that are still living in the LGBTQ community. 00:44:11.08\00:44:14.92 And most of them respect my decision. 00:44:15.78\00:44:18.69 Some people claim, oh, you're just bisexual. 00:44:18.85\00:44:21.99 But I know I was strictly homosexual. 00:44:23.39\00:44:26.36 I didn't have any feelings or desires for women. 00:44:26.73\00:44:29.30 And what I have for my wife, I know came from God because of 00:44:29.86\00:44:32.97 the steps that he took me through to get to this point. 00:44:32.97\00:44:35.44 And, you know, even if they don't understand, that's okay, 00:44:35.44\00:44:40.14 you know, it's not God isn't forced. 00:44:40.31\00:44:42.21 So I don't have to try to force to convince people otherwise, 00:44:42.41\00:44:44.65 because by their fruit, you shall know them. 00:44:45.48\00:44:47.45 So, you know, the fruit that I bear is thanking it to Christ, 00:44:47.92\00:44:50.32 honoring his name and sharing is the Holy Spirit's job to 00:44:50.72\00:44:54.82 convict and to bring people to an awareness of their sins and 00:44:54.82\00:44:58.86 the things that they've fallen short because he's everyone's 00:44:58.86\00:45:01.80 savior if we just accept him. 00:45:01.80\00:45:02.93 That's right. 00:45:03.10\00:45:06.50 with the ministry, you maybe seem like you focus on LGBTQ or 00:45:07.00\00:45:11.34 whatever, but really, as you travel, as you talk, as you 00:45:11.34\00:45:15.61 minister here, you're letting people know that no matter what 00:45:15.61\00:45:18.95 your issues are, because we all have them, we're all sinners, 00:45:18.95\00:45:22.52 that God can give us victory over whatever sin. 00:45:23.42\00:45:26.09 You're honest enough to tell yours and yours, and, you know, 00:45:26.39\00:45:30.69 some of us aren't. 00:45:30.79\00:45:32.03 Some of us may be hiding, and we're back here, and I say we, 00:45:32.03\00:45:36.40 I'm saying we, the human race, a lot of us, our tendency is 00:45:36.70\00:45:40.34 not to, well, you don't want everything out in the open, but 00:45:40.34\00:45:43.64 you all are saying, hey, look, this is where I was, this where 00:45:43.64\00:45:47.34 you may be right now, and I don't care if it's one way or 00:45:47.34\00:45:50.91 the other, you know, whatever you have in your life that the 00:45:50.91\00:45:55.58 devil is beating you up, God can give you victory over that. 00:45:55.58\00:45:58.92 That's right. 00:45:58.92\00:46:03.32 that's why Jesus died, is to give us an opportunity that to 00:46:03.32\00:46:07.86 give us victory over sin through Christ Jesus. 00:46:07.86\00:46:10.70 We can't do it on our own, and I noticed that neither one of 00:46:10.87\00:46:15.14 you were saying, well, I just decided this, so I didn't do 00:46:15.14\00:46:18.21 it, and I did this, I didn't do it. 00:46:18.21\00:46:20.74 You both were saying, we pray, we were praying, we were asking 00:46:20.84\00:46:24.51 God, we were telling the Lord, or asking Lord, what do you 00:46:24.51\00:46:28.28 want me? 00:46:28.28\00:46:33.22 we, what I'm getting from this and for those at home, whatever 00:46:33.22\00:46:36.26 your issues tonight are, whatever they are, God can give 00:46:36.26\00:46:40.26 you victory too. 00:46:40.26\00:46:40.96 That's right. 00:46:40.96\00:46:45.07 go ahead. 00:46:45.07\00:46:45.87 So 1 Corinthians chapter 6, I think is really the definition 00:46:46.33\00:46:50.74 of our ministry, because it says, do not be deceived, you 00:46:50.74\00:46:54.51 know, and it lists all of the abominations that won't be in 00:46:54.51\00:46:57.18 heaven, and you know what? 00:46:57.18\00:46:58.35 Yes, homosexuality is mentioned there, and it's very clear, 00:46:58.35\00:47:02.18 it's homosexual offenders, and so God doesn't have a problem 00:47:02.28\00:47:05.92 with people that are same-sex -attracted, because he 00:47:05.92\00:47:08.29 understands that there are reasons why, you know, we were 00:47:08.29\00:47:10.99 same -sex-attracted, but he calls out for the offenders, he 00:47:10.99\00:47:15.00 talks about the idolaters, the fornicators, the licentious, 00:47:15.00\00:47:18.20 you know. 00:47:18.53\00:47:19.03 The gossipers, the drunk. 00:47:19.17\00:47:22.64 know, homosexuality, and I was one of those people that walked 00:47:22.64\00:47:25.87 out of the church culture, because that's all I heard was 00:47:25.87\00:47:27.98 that, you know, gays were going to burn in a hotter house, so, 00:47:27.98\00:47:31.01 you know, not only is it the LGBT, but you know, anyone that 00:47:31.21\00:47:36.35 struggles with porn addiction and, you know, sexual thoughts 00:47:36.35\00:47:39.09 or licentiousness, or even sexual abuse, which, you know, 00:47:39.09\00:47:41.96 when Hector shares his story, he's a powerful story of 00:47:41.99\00:47:44.99 deliverance there. 00:47:44.99\00:47:45.69 So verse 11 was really the impetus that I think that we 00:47:46.26\00:47:50.00 all need access to, and unfortunately, that wasn't what 00:47:50.00\00:47:52.83 I heard in Christian culture, you know, and it's still not 00:47:52.83\00:47:55.44 something that I think is as prevalent as it should be, but 00:47:55.44\00:47:58.44 it says, such were some of you. 00:47:58.44\00:48:00.24 Such were some of you. 00:48:00.48\00:48:01.31 That's right, that's right. 00:48:01.38\00:48:02.51 I love that, that's one of my favorites. 00:48:02.81\00:48:04.45 But I didn't even realize this, but it's not just such were 00:48:04.45\00:48:07.38 some of you, but you've been washed. 00:48:07.38\00:48:09.02 That's right. 00:48:09.05\00:48:12.49 Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God, and to me, it was 00:48:12.49\00:48:15.39 like, you know what, when somebody says, you know, I'm 00:48:15.39\00:48:17.59 gay, I can't change, I go, that's right, you can't. 00:48:17.59\00:48:19.59 I said, but Jesus can do some amazing things in your life. 00:48:19.59\00:48:23.13 That's right, that's right. 00:48:23.13\00:48:24.27 And I think that that has an application for the person 00:48:24.27\00:48:26.94 that's addicted to the porn, you know, for the individual 00:48:26.94\00:48:29.57 that was molested as a child, that, you know, has these 00:48:29.57\00:48:32.07 sexual thoughts, whatever the issue is, all of it is wrapped 00:48:32.07\00:48:35.38 up in verses 9 and 10 and 1 Corinthians with verse 11, and 00:48:35.38\00:48:38.88 I think verse 11 really needs to be celebrated and talked 00:48:38.88\00:48:42.68 about. 00:48:42.68\00:48:46.25 that was shed and what Jesus is doing in the sanctuary now for 00:48:46.25\00:48:49.19 us. 00:48:49.19\00:48:49.42 Praise the Lord. 00:48:50.29\00:48:50.99 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11. 00:48:51.13\00:48:53.26 Daniel just said something very profound, that we might, we're 00:48:53.26\00:48:57.97 talking about all this stuff and it might be heavy for some 00:48:57.97\00:49:00.50 of our audience and he just quietly, as you were naming 00:49:00.50\00:49:03.57 things, said, gossip. 00:49:03.57\00:49:04.57 Yeah, they're mentioned there too. 00:49:05.31\00:49:06.21 Well, we don't want to talk about that. 00:49:06.21\00:49:07.68 That's the church, right? 00:49:07.84\00:49:10.88 Stove. 00:49:10.88\00:49:13.58 We'd rather talk about LGBTQ or, you know, those that 00:49:13.58\00:49:13.62 different from us, adulterers or whatever, but this is a huge 00:49:17.39\00:49:21.06 problem within the Christian community and within the 00:49:21.06\00:49:23.79 Christian church. 00:49:23.79\00:49:24.79 I was telling her, I say, you know, some of these magazines 00:49:25.06\00:49:27.93 that call themselves Christians and some of them Adventists who 00:49:27.93\00:49:31.30 go by names Adventists, they're printing gossip instead of the 00:49:31.30\00:49:34.94 gospel and, you know, that needs to be. 00:49:34.94\00:49:37.41 So there's all kinds of things that God can deliver us. 00:49:38.07\00:49:41.18 I know we only on this hour we've got, and you've got a lot 00:49:41.34\00:49:44.48 of new projects going so... 00:49:44.48\00:49:46.38 Yeah, and I just want to make a comment before we move on 00:49:46.38\00:49:49.38 because, you know, we changed the name from Coming Out 00:49:49.38\00:49:52.62 Ministries to Coming Together Ministries. 00:49:52.62\00:49:54.46 And I think listening to their testimony and many different 00:49:54.49\00:49:58.19 testimonies that Michael could share, really Coming Together 00:49:58.19\00:50:01.36 Ministries is a relationship ministry. 00:50:01.36\00:50:04.47 And it's about that relationship with Christ that 00:50:04.97\00:50:07.87 has the power to transform our identities that we might know a 00:50:07.87\00:50:12.04 broader identity than just our sexualized identity. 00:50:12.04\00:50:15.64 And, you know, there are things in their story that are true to 00:50:16.85\00:50:20.58 everybody's story, even though some of the backgrounds may be 00:50:20.58\00:50:23.69 a little bit different. 00:50:23.69\00:50:27.36 background stories than most people know because we don't 00:50:27.36\00:50:30.13 have an open forum for talking about those things. 00:50:30.13\00:50:32.36 But the denial of one's person in what I'll call superficial 00:50:32.83\00:50:38.67 expression of affection and the connecting with Christ actually 00:50:38.67\00:50:44.74 allows a healing encounter that delivers identity. 00:50:44.74\00:50:48.78 And, you know, all through your life your sense of that 00:50:49.04\00:50:52.95 identity will be a dynamic of attraction and back and forth 00:50:52.95\00:50:56.38 between the two of you. 00:50:56.38\00:50:57.39 And this is true for all relationships. 00:50:57.62\00:51:00.42 But that identity is found not in something I can give away 00:51:01.12\00:51:04.66 and maybe shouldn't give away prematurely. 00:51:04.66\00:51:06.73 It's actually found in what I keep that's primarily kept 00:51:07.00\00:51:10.17 through a relationship with Christ. 00:51:10.17\00:51:11.57 And when I start keeping certain things for Jesus, it 00:51:12.00\00:51:15.64 elevates all of the relational dynamics. 00:51:15.64\00:51:18.84 And out of that there's a healing touch from the master 00:51:19.41\00:51:23.11 today just like there used to be. 00:51:23.11\00:51:25.68 And if there's one thing I want to say about this young couple 00:51:26.05\00:51:28.95 is that their walk with Christ has made them honest people. 00:51:28.95\00:51:34.62 And that honesty is the function of a soul that's wide 00:51:35.59\00:51:39.56 open to Christ. 00:51:39.56\00:51:40.66 And it creates a dynamic of honesty with each other a bit 00:51:41.00\00:51:45.73 of suffering on the way. 00:51:45.73\00:51:46.87 I mean, it's hard when you have more interest in the other 00:51:46.87\00:51:46.90 person than they have in you. 00:51:48.77\00:51:50.27 But it's a journey of trust. 00:51:50.84\00:51:52.57 It's a prayerful waiting for God to architect and heal and 00:51:52.97\00:51:57.01 establish. 00:51:57.01\00:51:57.61 And so this coming together ministries, you know, I've 00:51:58.18\00:52:02.65 heard it said by different folks that talk about addiction 00:52:02.65\00:52:05.45 that the opposite of addiction is connection. 00:52:05.45\00:52:07.86 And that connection is first with Christ. 00:52:08.62\00:52:10.46 Our world is swimming in superficiality. 00:52:10.99\00:52:14.46 But as we actually are willing to go deeper with Christ, which 00:52:14.83\00:52:18.30 does involve a bit of cross carrying. 00:52:18.30\00:52:20.00 It's there's some suffering. 00:52:20.27\00:52:21.50 There's some loneliness. 00:52:21.64\00:52:22.40 There's some being in the wilderness, being on the 00:52:22.97\00:52:25.21 stretch. 00:52:25.21\00:52:25.51 But listen, you know, Michael Card would sing in his song in 00:52:26.64\00:52:29.91 the wilderness. 00:52:29.91\00:52:33.98 self away. 00:52:33.98\00:52:34.75 And that self is in the way of the connection that a lot of 00:52:35.62\00:52:39.12 people want. 00:52:39.12\00:52:39.79 They hang on to an identity that's wrong, built around 00:52:40.29\00:52:43.63 something that was never supposed to be the core of 00:52:43.63\00:52:45.99 their identity. 00:52:45.99\00:52:50.60 only in Christ, because Christ is the great identity giver 00:52:50.60\00:52:54.54 from the beginning and remaker. 00:52:54.54\00:52:56.07 But it also gets in the way of developing relational identity. 00:52:56.34\00:52:59.17 And so your story is laden with multiple layers of victory. 00:52:59.77\00:53:04.71 But a lot of people aren't willing to pay the price. 00:53:05.21\00:53:07.48 But I'll tell you what the Bible says that when we delight 00:53:07.48\00:53:07.52 in him, he gives us the desires of our heart. 00:53:10.25\00:53:12.42 And I know as the chairperson of this ministry dealing with 00:53:13.25\00:53:16.42 different people in this team, it's wonderful to see this 00:53:16.42\00:53:20.66 beautiful outgrowth of Christ, this honesty which lays the 00:53:20.66\00:53:23.47 foundation for a chance to connect so deeply. 00:53:23.47\00:53:25.60 So, so much to share. 00:53:26.63\00:53:28.10 But it's a relationship ministry, first with Christ. 00:53:28.20\00:53:31.24 And he's still changing lives the way he did 2,000 years ago. 00:53:31.71\00:53:34.81 It's not always as dramatic as put mud on somebody's eyes and 00:53:35.41\00:53:38.85 go wash in the pool of Siloam. 00:53:38.85\00:53:40.75 But there is a gentle healer. 00:53:40.78\00:53:42.48 And he is leading us in a way that gives the very best. 00:53:42.52\00:53:45.95 And this testimony is beautiful. 00:53:46.02\00:53:47.39 Amen. 00:53:48.09\00:53:48.52 Powerfully said. 00:53:48.69\00:53:52.69 hour. 00:53:52.69\00:53:54.83 from Hector too, of course. 00:53:54.83\00:53:56.53 But as I sit here and think about it, the ministry, how 00:53:56.93\00:54:01.80 important this ministry is to the Christian church and to the 00:54:01.80\00:54:06.17 Seventh -day Adventist Church. 00:54:06.17\00:54:07.28 Only a few years ago, I'm going to go back and be so bold to 00:54:07.54\00:54:11.68 say about 10 years ago, I want to address that tonight when 00:54:11.68\00:54:14.98 I'm going to an upcoming sermon what happened 10 years ago, 00:54:14.98\00:54:18.69 2015. 00:54:18.92\00:54:19.79 But things have changed and the moral decay and the spiral is 00:54:21.32\00:54:26.90 going so quickly. 00:54:26.90\00:54:28.20 But it's affecting the church so much that even 10 years ago 00:54:28.63\00:54:33.40 when surveys that were done about do you affirm LGBTQ, you 00:54:33.40\00:54:38.04 know, to now to 2025. 00:54:38.04\00:54:43.21 I just read the other day where I hope it's wrong but it's a 00:54:43.71\00:54:49.42 survey done with a couple thousand supposedly Adventists 00:54:49.42\00:54:53.02 almost 30% now say they're okay to affirm LGBTQ in their 00:54:53.02\00:54:58.53 church. 00:54:58.53\00:55:04.70 okay. 00:55:04.70\00:55:09.64 say. 00:55:09.64\00:55:13.04 You know, but it's my daughter, it's my son, it's my grandson, 00:55:13.27\00:55:16.71 it's my sister. 00:55:16.85\00:55:18.35 And you've got to know that it's such a wonderful person 00:55:19.08\00:55:22.75 and for to not accept them as church members and to do when 00:55:22.75\00:55:27.26 to me that's amazing because the devil doesn't care which 00:55:27.26\00:55:31.56 side of the boat we fall out as long as we fall out. 00:55:31.56\00:55:33.90 So as you're saying if you go to church we want to people 00:55:33.90\00:55:38.00 LGBTQ we want people, alcoholics, drug addicts, we 00:55:38.00\00:55:41.94 want them to come to church. 00:55:41.94\00:55:43.24 We want to love these people but we have to love them enough 00:55:43.51\00:55:47.24 to tell them the truth. 00:55:47.24\00:55:48.44 And the truth is that open sin is against God's commandments 00:55:48.98\00:55:53.31 and therefore we're no matter what it is when we reject 00:55:53.31\00:55:57.99 Christ we're not going to make to heaven. 00:55:57.99\00:56:00.69 So the attitudes within our church when it comes to this 42 00:56:00.69\00:56:06.46 % of 70 Adventists now say that and I got this from Pew 00:56:06.46\00:56:11.83 Research say that abortion should be they support abortion 00:56:11.83\00:56:17.67 in almost all cases. 00:56:17.67\00:56:19.64 That's nearly half of 70 Adventists and it's like wait a 00:56:20.68\00:56:24.45 minute are we the people that preach to Sabbath and you got 00:56:24.45\00:56:27.38 to keep all the commandments including the fourth one but 00:56:27.38\00:56:30.32 all of a sudden the sixth one well that's really not murder. 00:56:30.32\00:56:38.26 Well the seventh one but you got to know the story if you 00:56:38.73\00:56:41.23 knew the story and the person and so we're straying away 00:56:41.23\00:56:44.77 we're getting away so your ministry is to me one of the 00:56:44.77\00:56:48.90 most important ministries in the Adventist Church. 00:56:48.90\00:56:51.51 We should, you should have support from people everywhere 00:56:52.01\00:56:55.21 and that's why we have you all here and that's why we want to 00:56:55.21\00:56:58.41 do because you can say what other people can't say. 00:56:58.41\00:57:02.52 I've never had that issue I've had other plenty of other 00:57:02.72\00:57:05.89 issues but this is an issue people don't want to talk about 00:57:05.89\00:57:08.62 and you know they're quiet and so I believe you guys God has 00:57:08.62\00:57:14.10 called you for such an hour as this this ministry they're 00:57:14.10\00:57:17.37 coming together and that's why we're so thankful and so 00:57:17.37\00:57:20.47 grateful that you allow us to be part of this because we feel 00:57:20.47\00:57:25.07 like we're part of the ministry. 00:57:25.07\00:57:26.41 Whether we are or not we feel like we're part of it. 00:57:27.21\00:57:29.64 We do, we do feel that way. 00:57:29.74\00:57:31.18 Thank you so much for giving us a platform and being able to 00:57:31.81\00:57:34.55 lift up Jesus who he is and what he's done in our lives. 00:57:34.55\00:57:37.25 Well for our folks at home I can't believe the first hour is 00:57:38.02\00:57:41.12 almost gone. 00:57:41.12\00:57:41.96 Don't go away we'll be back in just a moment. 00:57:42.12\00:57:44.26