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Series Code: TDYL
Program Code: TDYL220011B
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00:14 Welcome back to the second hour of 3 aetn Thursday night live. It is all the way live.
00:21 Yes, it is. You've just joined us. We're talking about something that. 00:23 >> To some people may what we have to talk, but that we're talking about. 00:29 >> The LGBTQ, a community to talk about. And this is something that is sweeping the 00:35 nation. The world sweeping the world. And here we are in America being challenged on 00:40 levels that parents are not even aware that the school, whether private or public some 00:44 churches are resisting the rising tide, but it's just a matter of time before a 00:51 society tries to overwhelm those beliefs that we have held so dear. And I think a 00:55 lot for our guests tonight has been talking about that. But if people have questions, they 00:59 can email us can't pay Kan off K and tell them where we can get those questions. Honey. 01:06 >> Live at 3 ABN DOT TV sent emails and and you can also text them in at 618-228-3975. 01:13 And I do. >> Have a question right here, OK? 01:18 >> Wayne besides Council in, what did you do specifically? To what did you specifically 01:27 do to live in the 4th column? Rebuild. >> Well, that is the column 01:33 that I'm seeking to live in now. And combined with therapy and talking about things of 01:40 the past that might have influenced me and and dealing with those issues. It's also 01:45 important that I would live much like I did in the renounce The where I again was 01:51 surrendering. My temptations my desires to Christ. But being involved in my church 01:55 community, my church family developing accountability. I think it's important for 02:01 people to to get involved. If you're a woman get involves whether women's group are man 02:06 and man's groups and churches that are less common, but they're becoming more 02:11 developed today because this the world is is encroaching upon us with all its passions 02:15 and desires. And and, you know, the things that Satan is waving at us, there are more 02:22 men's accountability groups dealing with pornography issues things like that. I'm 02:27 I'm returning when I go home. A big, joining in a men's group who has opened their 02:32 door to me having had same sex attraction because we're really in this together or 02:36 not. It's not an independent thing. We want to be there for one another. 02:41 >> And you mentioned something that if you're just joining us, you might wonder what is 02:44 the 4th column because he's problem has been on for an hour now and the different 02:49 views on Christian doctrine, identity and homosexuality. primarily in 4 particular 02:55 categories, wages to that quick sweep of those 4 categories and more time on 03:01 the rebuild to resist column again, arming the rebel column and some people thought it was 03:06 the rebel column and I might as well be because it someone actually that reveling in 03:09 their sand. >> Not being shameful about it, not being embarrassed 03:13 about it, but actually proclaiming this is who I am. I don't need to do anything 03:16 about it. God made me this way. And the resist column would be those who sort of 03:21 have a sense of morality and a little bit in the sense that they don't believe in 03:28 promiscuity a sexual abuse of any kind. But they will maintain the LGBT identity. 03:33 They may go as far as saying a monogamous, same sex relationship would be OK with 03:38 God. But then I present scripture and say I don't have any backing for that from The 03:44 renounce column is coming in agreement with scripture saying that I surrendered my 03:48 life to Christ. I desire to do his will and not my own to leave the flash. The fleshly 03:54 desires and give those to Christ to surrender. Does iris and temptations. But even 03:59 those can be considered cent fall. And just as anyone who even identifies as a head or a 04:06 sexual, if you contemplate those for very long, the book of James tells us yes, those 04:11 things can become sanfl because they conjure up last and we're concentrating on 04:16 lost in the end in that position. But it's kind of a dead stop. That's as well. 04:22 Here I am. I gave everything to God. And I'm you now I'm just sitting here waiting and 04:27 I'm not doing a whole bunch more, whereas in the rebuilt column puts me on the 04:34 trajectory of further healing in Christ in transformation that comes through Christ. As 04:38 I'm walking with him, combining cycle analysis or mental therapy along with 04:48 Christianity. So you want to you want to find a good Christian therapist who it 04:51 agrees with exactly what scripture does, but is able to deal with your real life 04:56 situations way have which may have weighed in heavily on your life through and 05:03 incidents of abuse or incest or traumatic episode of some kind. They're through 05:10 psychology and cycle analysis. There are those who are trained that can perhaps bring 05:14 you in into a greater state of healing that God would desire for you again, entering into 05:20 the sexual integrity that God designed for man for for all time rather than the 05:27 substitute that the enemy has so been. So proliferate about getting out substitute. You're 05:35 right. >> Sure. The substitute awful. You know, but they wouldn't be 05:39 substitute. Now. That's the key. There wouldn't be substitutes. And the Steelers 05:41 age an UN counteract the count offense. So this network is trying counteract counterfeit 05:46 and this is what this problem is all about. Just to kind of go over that on a different 05:50 level when Wayne said rebel. We also he's rebel, but rebel means this is why am I have K 05:57 partnership? I'm going to stay here in the resist column. Now goes to gay identity 06:02 identifying with tech cut with that. That choice and I'm not looking for any different 06:07 changes, but then renounce as with many people got stuck, they come pence. I repent of 06:13 the way I live like a purse, not repent of my All the things I've done wrong. I 06:18 repent of that. But a lot of people get stuck there thinking that if I burn all my 06:24 books that I read, if I get rid of all the wrong things that I watched by empty my 06:28 alcohol cabin and throw my marijuana butts out. If I change the way I used to live 06:32 in discontinue those kinds of practices that I'm good. But that's not what you're saying 06:39 saying we've got to get to the place where God gives us beauty for ashes. And that's 06:43 with the rebuilding comes in. Correct? Correct? Yeah. >> I'm there and I want talk 06:50 again about the conversion or reparative therapy that there's so concentration from 06:57 the LGBT plus community and activists today that are wanting to criminalize this 07:01 and that we spoke. It's criminal in 14 countries around the world. There are so 07:06 many people that are saying the damage that has com by conversion or reparative 07:11 therapy. But I think that's mainly coming from people that don't have and interest in 07:14 what scripture has to say. And they're upset because scripture would indicate that 07:20 that guy doesn't place has and on being transgender or bisexual or homosexual. You 07:29 know, as as relates to scripture itself. For a long time, there wasn't anything to 07:36 make refuting this. But there's a study that was finished, incomplete, done by 07:43 Carolyn P law and Philip Sutton that is available online it shows they are 07:50 people that have done a study with 75 participants that worst getting supposedly the 07:56 conversion and reparative therapy if that's what it the Category one would want to put 08:02 them under. And the study is called Sexual Attraction, Fluidity and well-being in 08:06 men, a therapeutic outcomes study that is beginning to show legislators and the AP A 08:13 today that there is benefits and there isn't minimal benefits from people who are 08:18 going through therapeutic treatment, who are experiencing this significance 08:25 drop and their same sex attraction in some even and going to the point of ending 08:30 up and a relationship of marriage between a man and woman and then associate 08:35 scripture and the Bible along with that, you know, that's bringing them to great healing 08:40 in their lives. So this is very beneficial. >> What transgender when they 08:47 totally change the natural. So I understand that from gender dysphoria and having had that 08:52 Intel, I was 18 years old. >> There was very much this. I thought that God had made a 08:58 huge mistake. And without without an understanding of the nature of sand and what it 09:06 did to us or let's say you have a experience a father or a mother or yeah, are you 09:15 raised only by a single parent or there so many things that can contribute to the fact 09:21 that you don't feel comfortable in the gender of which you were born. But if we 09:25 go back and we look and see the influences. Study, those influences. Get counseling for 09:34 those things and go to scripture. Yes, and and agree with who cry says that I am. 09:38 Christ gives me purpose and value and meaning when I see who I am in and what his 09:44 design for me is. Today, what's happening even inside of Christianity today is an 09:54 adaptation that is putting the scalpel the hands of those who want to play God. But John 10:00 Hopkins has done research on this. They used to while they they did read sexual 10:05 reassignment surgeries. They stopped for a while they did some studies on this and then 10:11 they have begun again doing the sexual reassignment surgeries. But one of the 10:13 statistics that they brought out was that 49% of those who have sexual reassignment 10:23 surgeries consider and 39% are successful. Don't know. So even as a person who who and 10:31 has the full operation done upper upper and lower surgery goes through all of the 10:37 hormone treatments. When you stand in front of the mirror, you still know that inside 10:42 your chromosomes have not changed. You're still the person that you tried to 10:46 escape. It's only through Jesus Christ that you're actually going to find the 10:50 true value in true meaning of who she says has designed you to be the the negative effects 10:58 of of what you're experiencing. You can know that in the day have this 11:00 coming. You will be brought to a position of perfection in Christ. The man. Thank you for 11:05 that. Here's a comment. What the sincere and encourage an appeal. They said. 11:11 >> Please keep up the good work among us and to the world. essence in 11:19 appreciation, civil >> thank you, Ice. I appreciate that so much 11:23 because, well, it's not and it's not always easy sitting in this position and it's a 11:28 difficult conversation. And I find that in our own denomination, we've been 11:33 avoiding these conversations in churches and on university campuses today. But if we 11:38 would talk about this from a redemptive standpoint, we it seems as though we've made 11:43 God, if a tenant at times because God is in the business of miracles, God is in the 11:47 business of healing. Scott is asking. He got says I'll do my part. If you also do your 11:52 part. And so we we we're not going to experience this healing unless we're actually 11:56 engaging with her eyesight. >> Another comment absolutely beautiful. I'm not of the 12:04 LGBTQ community, but you'll would sauce bought on. And thank you. Get a heart. Hazel 12:10 are. Here's a question. Please explain the Greek on the stand in interpretation of the word 12:17 homosexual. Sure. Thank you for your testimony and ministry. You're welcome. 12:22 Pastor, you may have something to say on this well. The word Hama, sexual was not 12:28 introduced into scripture and tell the I believe it was the late 50's or early 60's. 12:32 >> And I am often confronted with from. >> People in the well that 12:40 would call themselves LGBT Christians that, well, Jesus didn't say anything directly 12:44 about homosexuality and that the word homosexual wasn't even in the Bible for a long 12:48 period of time. And that what really the God has a problem with is men who have sex with 12:58 a young boys and that the European translations suggest the idea that that's what 13:01 Jesus has a problem with it. So I researched that and I I did the background check on 13:09 that. And in the Hebrew, I in the Old the word male is in in the Old Testament. 82 times 13:18 only 2 times are referring to a male child and that is in on the 8th day of circumcision. 13:25 so I would say this if there are European translations that are saying, yeah, you know, 13:31 having man having sex with a young boy, then that would say that translation is actually 13:33 what's in error. But to to address the word in the in the Greek, the word in the Greek, 13:42 which I can't I can never even pronounce. It's Malik OCS. And the other one was starts with 13:48 an a R. Well, this one here, particularly the passage. I'm referring to the scripture we 13:55 read earlier. Yes, the talk, but on the sexual. >> that that's the first one 13:59 will address moving up the other just a moment. But the word Malik host, if you look 14:03 at that in the Greek, it also refers to those who have effeminate behaviors. But it's 14:11 another word that was introduced. That takes us back to the old Greek practice, 14:13 which to find that even more. Clearly the white Katya might look that up because a lot of 14:20 people that's not a word we use nowadays in Larry. But when you go back to the Greek 14:24 Culture Academy might was a relationship. And this is kind of the very hard to explain 14:31 here. But the Katmai was a relationship younger boy and an older male. In a sexual 14:37 way, OK? And that's why the word was later changed to homeless sexual because he 14:41 was, in fact, an act between 2 men. The in the cattle might weigh was different ages and 14:48 you may have heard of N***** the North American Man-boy Love Association. That's what 14:52 the captain might but abroad in the Category one. This practice was Dan practiced 14:57 among people of similar age. That's why one of the definitions there was a 15:01 famine. It person who is a catch to might having a relationship between 2 people 15:06 of the same sex. >> Starting the and getting the aid. That definitions been 15:10 a while since I've done this, we really comes back to the idea of of what is meant by 15:17 the word homosexual. It is still 2 males that are engaging with sex with one 15:23 another. So I would say this and I frequently share this with those. I'm not there that 15:29 they're in my audiences because they don't generally come to my audiences. But 15:32 those identifying as LGBT. If you see God's word is being sound. And for all time and 15:42 that God knows the beginning from the from the end and that his word is truth. And so with 15:48 let's go to scripture, we have the example that God has given and his design between a man 15:51 and a woman. And intimacy as being a gift that's given to the man and the woman from 16:01 Genesis, 2 revelation. And it says even there that what God has ordained that no man, you 16:04 know, separate. So we only have that example. If you want to come, let's fast forward 2 16:13 judgment day where you're going to say to God, all I knew you would only approve of 16:17 me in a same sex monogamous relationship of which I have remained. But there's no 16:23 scripture that backs that Wouldn't you say that? That's a tricky evil God. If God is 16:29 not going to give us the same example of what he honors and glorifies between a man and a 16:34 woman, how evil, how awful and how confusing if God didn't gave the same affirmation or 16:42 approval for those who are saying gendered that? I have to go on the word of truth 16:48 because on judgment day, I'm held to what it was that I that I came to know from 16:53 scripture and he will use an UH, oh, this is Satan. Does they want to confuse people? 16:58 Yeah. And this is a big confusion that happens nowadays and 17:03 >> let's not even add to it. The part that social media plays. That's a very that's 17:08 not the reason for the existence of this community. But that plays a major role 17:14 able act a strong impact. A lot of people think that this is something that only the 17:17 Apostle Paul mentioned and I heard tennis. So yes, I heard a documentary done on national 17:23 television where theologians with trying to explain that Paul had an issue. That's why 17:28 he was so difficult on this particular topic. But Paul was not the first one to introduce 17:32 this by any means. You found this was talked about in the book of Leviticus, a chapter 17:38 20, a verse 13 assists if a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of 17:45 them have committed an abomination. This is Paul wasn't even a thought. This 17:50 was thousands of years before Paul the law to establish these principles and why. And 17:54 this is something that modern society wants to make. It seem odd because nowadays, you 18:01 know, I want marry a woman, a man marry a man. But in the Garden of Eden, can you 18:04 imagine if if and just not cynical by any means, but this is the point it has to be 18:11 made. made the human race so that it could be fruitful and multiply. Yes. And even today 18:18 people have a difficulty defining. I saw an example. One person says, well, what is 18:22 a woman? What is the man? And it almost seems like a question nowadays that people 18:28 are fearful of answering. Yeah, exactly. Which seems so. Yes, because now get that out. 18:34 Now they're looking to that criminal laws into place that say. 18:37 >> You know, I have to have the right to be identified by the gender that I say I am not 18:42 that Scripture says that I am. And so again, we're competing with scripture. That's well 18:48 and fine. If you're not trusting and believing in God. But but for those who do we 18:55 should, we should still have the religious freedom that allows us to operate in 18:59 accordance with the word of God, a man. And here's another question. 19:03 >> How do you deal with someone who and who identifies as a gay Christian? 19:10 >> How do you deal with Let's I want to deal with everybody from the standpoint of 19:14 compassion and care, giving them value and importance. but they come from a different 19:19 position of their understanding. I had that question actually come to me 19:24 the other day and ice by somebody who was responding to an article that I had written 19:28 on this very topic about conversion or reparative therapy. And he was talking 19:33 about being LGBT and that he knows that God loves him. And so why with Nye? Well, I dude 19:40 love and care about those who identify as LGBT. Plus. But when we take the word gay, 19:45 which denoting, the idea that desire to have relations with someone sexual relations of 19:52 someone of the same gender, Christian, it's almost like I'm putting my son before 19:59 Christ or anybody in my yeah. My desire which God doesn't condone before him and saying 20:03 I'm a I'm a person who prefers this. Christian bank. Okay. Well, God is going to 20:10 acknowledge that as your choice, he honors what your choices. But we don't see 20:15 people in the church identifying as heterosexual Christians. How come we've 20:20 gone again to first Corinthians 6, 9.10 and we've taken homosexuality out of the 20:24 group and we've given its special rights. But I think their rights that the LGBT 20:29 community gave themselves and then they inflicted it and enforced it and called out our 20:37 entities to concur with them and actually many denominations today are 20:42 splitting on this topic. And we we were at risk of that in our own denomination today 20:48 because we don't have on our campuses. We don't have any support groups for someone 20:53 with unwanted same-sex attraction or feeling that they're the different gender 20:57 where if we had Bible studies and we had faculty coming around those individuals and 21:01 train with imagine the transformations that could be happening and are not us, not 21:07 the power of humans, but under the Holy spirit and the of God. Thank you. Instead were 21:13 caving in to the social agenda and we're following what we have now on all university 21:17 campuses, except for one that I know of is okay. Straight alliance that says this is who 21:21 I am. This is how identify and the church needs to us accept that and God's fine with it. 21:27 So we're not seeking for a way out were seeking for a way to endorse, but human say social 21:33 media says and what I feel personally, rather, then then the sovereignty and the 21:39 authority of Jesus Christ. >> somebody asked a question is has a I really thank the 21:47 Lord 4 where he has brought me from. And I decided just came to him. But I still get into 21:54 my selfishness. So where can I find the help to break this chain? that will go ahead 22:03 there. I went there there. There is hope we don't. And you know what? You might have 22:06 to stir the help a little bit. >> But in your church environment, you should. I 22:12 believe today as as we're seeing what's happening in the world today and we're seen 22:17 house and is being elevated and how we've whitewash so much other San that the things 22:24 that we have whitewashing the past like selfishness like gossip. 22:29 >> You know, overeating on the things in the Bible. The spoken to all right. That 22:35 there are groups of people, God's remnant that are coming together and I see it 22:41 happening even in my own church on and on and on a daily basis. There are meeting 22:45 at 06:30AM, in the morning for half an hour prayer every single day. Those from the 22:48 church who will come together to pray for one James 5.16, again, come together and share 22:55 your weaknesses. Your faults with one another and pray for the healing that is promised. 23:00 And so through fasting in from prayer and through prayer and through study, I believe that 23:04 God brings conviction upon our hearts. That while one thing is in front of me, God may 23:11 help me and and getting that pushed aside. But as soon as it is, he says now here's 23:16 something else that I would like you to take a look at. So, you know, actually after 23:20 the evening here shortly or hereafter, I've recognize that as Scott is instructed us of 23:27 the danger of our appetites and passions as it relates to and time issues and not having 23:32 the strength that we really need. I want more strength and I know how week I am. And so 23:39 I'm heading to a lifestyle center that will help me and making better choices. I'm not 23:44 crazy about again, I'm not crazy about other things. You know, it would be great. I'm a 23:51 vegetarian. But to BB gun for me is like if the food tasted the way it did in the Garden 23:56 of Eden, it would be so much areas and slavery. What I would want to be big and all 24:00 the time. >> But but this, you know, when I think about process 24:06 food, there are a lot of things and chemicals and whatnot that are in there that 24:09 could very much affect your ability to make real good choices. The point and so, 24:15 yeah, I think there's a lot that can be done for even this was seems to be the smallest 24:19 and least in significant of sense. >> And, you know, and a direct 24:24 answer, my wife, Tempe, on the show because I Tyson called breaking the chain. Yes, you 24:27 did. to make a very important point, this is this is huge. This is powerful. If you have 24:34 to get a chance to read the story and acts chapter 12 and this the story of Peter being 24:36 bound in chains right? And then being tied to the guards who were chained to the wall. 24:41 So p was down to people in chains to a change to the wall. So it seemed impossible 24:45 almost to be freed. But the Lord broke his chains. And this is something that this is 24:51 what you're talking about. And I want you to grab this in the context when Peters chains 24:56 will broken. Hope you're ready for this. He was still in prison. His chains will broken 25:04 and he was still in prison. This is powerful when you read the story next up to 12, this 25:08 is what happened. The lawyer didn't leave him in. The Bible, said the angel tapped 25:13 him on his side will come up. Yeah. Broke his chains and he said follow me. And this is 25:20 something that going to take off on this when you're ready just start running around the 25:25 Haha, the Lord. Let him past the first Kate. The second Kate. And the very last Cape. 25:32 The Lord let him through was the iron And then the Angel left him. So here's my 25:39 application. There are many of you whose chains were broken from whatever bound you, but 25:43 in some way is still in prison. And God wants to get you past the gates keeping 25:47 keep holding you in there. And this is where conversion, not conversion therapy. Yes, but 25:56 being transformed by the renewing of your mind. This is what you're talking about. 26:01 Absolutely. So people out there, you know, breaking the chains, Pete was still in the 26:04 prison. Yes, but he had to get past the case that holding him in. I think what you're 26:07 talking about tonight is this is what fighting against their gates that are being erected 26:11 to keep people in jail that want their gains to be broken. So there as we recognize 26:18 brokenness. Yes, we should be able to do something about it. There was a psychologist, I'm 26:25 who began a therapy. The repaired if therapy that gets associated with conversion 26:29 therapy. >> Again, as a negative therapy. But there were people 26:34 going this psychologist Joseph Nicolosi, was developing and and actually trademarked the 26:42 term repaired if therapy and he was of the mind that if something is broken, we should 26:49 be able to help and do something to repair it. And so they ended up calling it 26:52 repaired if therapy. It got a lot of negative backlash from THE L G B L G B T plus 26:58 community. And so they retired the term he used the term simply because he thought that 27:03 people would be more drawn from the LGBT plus community because they were seeking 27:08 repair. But today the term has been as Joseph and Nicholas. He died a few years ago. Chuck 27:13 Joseph Nicolosi junior still carries the the therapy, but in a different way of 27:22 reintegrated therapy and in helping people come to live in agreement with with what they 27:30 that they want. They they want sound therapy that will help bring them into a wholeness. 27:35 And if we had scripture in Christianity to that, then we therapist who are identifying 27:40 as Christian therapist that can help bring you into an wholeness with Jesus Christ. 27:46 Again, Invitational just like Jesus, not forceful. So anyone who is seeking out such a 27:50 therapy has the right to go. What is listener may want to to know today is that while 27:58 the other nations, these 14 other nations have criminalized conversion or 28:03 reparative therapy or specifically conversion therapy, it is outlawed in the 28:07 U.S. in 20 4 miners anyone, 17 and younger, even if their parents want to send them, it 28:14 is it is criminal to send them and the Equality Act would continue to make things that 28:20 would make it a criminal to stay to say that homosexuality is sinful from from the pulpit 28:27 or 2 to have therapies with with people who are seeking a way out. And so, you know, you 28:33 heard Joe Biden said in the State of the Union address. Let's get this Equality Act 28:38 passed. Let's give these rights to the LGBT plus people. Well, I think that 28:43 there still isn't a quality that is actually taking place with mankind out there today 28:47 that we seek to treat each other equal. But it doesn't mean endorse have to endorse 28:53 the behavior. And it doesn't mean that I don't care about you. If I don't endorse your 28:56 behavior. That's right. That's very well said. The trial said. 29:00 >> This comments. Comment touch Mom Tis just says Wayne. Your story has touched me 29:09 deeply. My brother's birthday is today. He would have been 59 years old if he had not 29:15 ended his life 7 years ago. He was raised STA and was tormented. He was a tormented 29:26 soul because he was gay. Yeah. And desperately wanted to be healed. But he continuously 29:32 fail. Thank you for Polish ice in for the church. Thank you for speaking out in love. It 29:44 was our LGBTQ brothers and You know, >> I get asked this every once 29:52 in a while. But what about the people who haven't been privileged to hear the 29:58 revelations like through my ministry, which is no his love ministries. Yeah. And want to 30:05 say to such individuals that this is what you know, really, truly God. Tells us not to to 30:11 judge. And so. I know that God knows the hearts of such individuals who never got to 30:19 see the light. But new he knows in their hearts if they would respond to his love in 30:25 truth message, that brings about healing and wholeness and him. I think there'll be 30:30 some serious surprises in the kingdom. a man and if you like what you're hearing, if you 30:39 think that this is valuable, I'm at and I encourage you to day 2 races, conversations in 30:46 your churches and in your schools today before conversion or reparative 30:49 therapy is made criminal and we can't even talk about it anymore. If you're looking a 30:56 message that is redemptive like this in and will go into discussing this and more and 31:01 more further You can though, his love Ministry. So I have seminars that I give issue on 31:08 this topic that can rap along low, but don't Yes, used to be all over the world and talk 31:13 COVID fun now. things are opening up a little bit more now and certainly so you can 31:17 just contact me at know his love, Dot org or you can email me hat to the number. The 31:28 number 2 to know his love. At G Mail dot com beautiful. Now, I don't know if we highlighted 31:35 this all my life to talk about something that must have on the list who is very 31:39 phenomenal. >> But you have a booklet there in front of you that I 31:43 want you to reintroduce 2 ares second, our audience and how because this line by line and 31:48 I know they have a graphic for it. Talk about that and why you, you passions about 31:52 putting that together. Sure. So. >> I did an interview here in 31:58 where I talk more specifically about this. But the highlight it and this, guiding families 32:06 of LGBT plus loved ones is a book that's written for multiple denominations. There 32:11 was an Adventist edition that was written. I don't see it that it differs too much other 32:17 than that at Vance, Adventists comments have been put in there. But the advent news are 32:25 LGBT activism on our university campuses. So that's the edition that I found in 32:28 the ad. Venice for Jen a approval. Our stamp of approval on the guiding 32:36 Families book. Now it's misleading because the guiding families of LGBT plus loved 32:41 ones. certainly not guiding them in a scripture format, but it is guiding them in a 32:46 cultural format that says you're fine just the way you are. You can identify by any 32:51 gender that you care to. They shame people in being discouraged about someone 32:58 coming out as LGBT and that we should, you know, make it possible for people to come 33:03 out as LGBT and the church because the the world makes it so much easier. Well, the 33:08 world might make it easier when I came out had the coming out party, we smoked a joint 33:14 bank, drank beer and ended up having sex. And that was rebellion against what the 33:19 church said and what the Bible said. So I'm not going to encourage coming out of the 33:22 church. But what I am going to encourage is that we should have places that are safe for 33:27 people to say. Here's what I struggle with. And James, 5.16, again, that I share my 33:32 faults might weaknesses with you and that I'm seeking prayer and healing to be 33:37 surrounded by my brother's ensure sisters in the church developing accountability 33:42 being said is seen as an equal at the foot of the cross of Jesus creating atmosphere of 33:50 embracing and and being alleviating alone us not putting somebody down because 33:56 they have feel like there feeling more feminine than then masculine our that their 34:03 same sex attracted to, you know, I'm on this journey, brother. I have same sex 34:07 attraction. I'm hoping that you can help hold me accountable that you can pray 34:10 with me that you can walk with me. Those are the things that I promote in the in the Line 34:18 by Line and analysis of guiding families of LGBT plus loved ones. And I give you 21 34:24 testimonies of individuals who have walked away from LGBT plus culture for Jesus Christ. 34:31 They saw that she says is worth it. They agree with scripture and taking instead 34:37 of taking an issue with scripture and promoting it amongst other people who are 34:42 going to college to get a Christian education. All right. 34:46 >> And I make a point as the 7 dead in his past. I want to make this point very The book 34:51 that he's referring to guide and guiding families about Gbt. just be too. That's not 34:56 something as a seven-day Venice past that that Iowa, many other avenues passes, 34:59 don't condone it. But this is something that is not a book that's that's The voice of the 35:04 church at large. That's why this response was necessary. Many people might conclude 35:12 that a particular publication that is being released is the voice of the church at large. 35:16 And that is not, in fact, the case. That's why I think the Lord you taking the time to 35:20 put that line by line because we still teach and preach the message of redemption 35:27 deliverance from Sen and rebuilding. And if that if it had not been the case, there 35:31 would be no place in the church for anyone regardless of whether it is alcohol, 35:36 whether it is, you know, and well and I want to keep San alcohol, whatever the proper 35:43 challenge, election may be a good the addiction may have been in 4400 copies were 35:47 mailed out to the North American divisions, churches, a seven-day Adventist 35:53 churches. >> And the United States. So if you're in a church in the 35:56 U.S., you might even ask your pastor, hey, do you have this book? I'd like to take a look 35:59 at or you can also go to and there's a graphic again for this for the book. I'm at now. 36:06 His love Dot Org there it is on the on the screen yet it want to remind that toward the 36:12 end of the program about this information. Also of the issues, honey. 36:17 >> I'd like to know what is the Trevor Project? >> So the Trevor Project is 36:23 something that people may have become aware of. As you go to look at presentations and 36:31 videos on you tube that have to do with those of us that are talking about conversion 36:36 or reparative therapy on a on a positive level. The Trevor Project, for whatever reason 36:43 YouTube is found it necessary or allowed this to take place. It's an advocacy LGBT plus 36:47 advocacy group. flags, anything that is scriptural or anything that would suggest 36:55 conversion therapy reparative therapy is good. The Trevor Project and then made a no ifs 37:06 says conversion therapy sometimes referred to as repaired of therapy. Is any of 37:11 several dangerous and discredited practices aimed at changing an individual's 37:16 sexual orientation or gender identity. Does speaker who are for many years was the speaker 37:24 for this group and vice president. What his name was Brenton Sam Renton. But and 37:33 Sam Brinton make big as speaking engagements where he would go and he promotes his 37:40 own idea of sexuality that included sex slash cake type of things and he went to group 37:50 where they were seeking endorsement for a lesbian organization. He was a speaker 37:54 on the stage for this called a girl. I'm out of the audience that he didn't know asking her 37:59 become a volunteer broader up on stage. Took a carbon with out and and beat her with that 38:09 and left a welt on that she then took pictures of it because they didn't disappear 38:15 for many days and wrote about it in that universities paper and said what on Earth that we 38:18 just engage ourselves in and other said, we're removing our support from this organization 38:26 because here's somebody who's complaining about the pain and the harm. Fulness of 38:29 conversion Therapy and then they turn around and inflict Hayne. How do you know that 38:34 that woman wasn't a victim of sexual abuse or our physical abuse and and could have sent 38:41 her into incredible over this. There's another analysis that was take that took place by a 38:48 lady by the name of Susan Constantine. She's done a many analysis of behavior analysis 38:54 that has to do with a person's demeanor the way they're talking Sam Britton was going 39:01 to organizations. He was telling them his experience with conversion or reparative 39:05 therapy and through the analysis of what he was saying and because of his stories 39:09 changing from engagement to they were finding that he was lying as it related to his 39:18 examples of what it was giving about his own life as it related to conversion therapy 39:21 that actually never took place. Well, now this ideology of rebuilding. Want to go back 39:28 to that list. I know I've seen. >> We've seen devastation. 39:31 Devastation happens in everything of life, by by a car accident, hurricane 39:39 natural disasters. There social to just asked us. You are disasters that affect the 39:45 human life. Yes, what are some of the ways that you could start recommending to people 39:51 if you really want to rebuild your relationship? And I wish we had this chart available 39:57 because I'm looking at the rebuilt column, which I thank you for putting this together. 40:00 And one of the first things that it lists on that and therein lies Romans. 12 first 40:08 wanted to says I beseech you, therefore, brother by the mercies of God. That you 40:12 present your body has a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is a reasonable 40:18 service. Now, that's an amazing, just amazing commitment. I think it starts 40:21 But you think about that, >> I would agree. And and I think for a greater more in as 40:29 it relates to the explanation that I got, I would send you to where I got. The shot in 40:36 the arm that I needed after 12 years. And if you go to YouTube and you look up Xk a 40:43 closer look at ex-gay ministries. It will bring you to a conversation with Andrew 40:49 Rodriquez and theology. Mom right Hernandez that Christa Bontrager. But it is. She's 40:55 called the allergy moms. And if you go into about the 13 minute mark and then watch it 41:00 from that point forward for the that you'll be convinced as I was and listening to 41:06 definitions of these columns. And then when you listen to the explanation as you get to 41:11 the rebuilt column and attacking the that topic or discussing the topic of 41:18 conversion or reparative therapy. Again, what it is, what it what somebody can gain 41:24 through again through mental health and psychotherapy combined with scripture in 41:30 Christianity dealing with traumatic events and that may have occurred in somebodys 41:32 life it was life changing for Portland Fellowship. Again, another out of Portland, 41:41 Oregon, who actually constructed before columns to begin with changed Ministries 41:46 Allen out of California, who do a lot of work by going to will be going again this fall 41:52 to Congress and telling of circumstances and situations of people who've experienced 42:00 traumatic events in their lives and that if they're not allowed to have conversion or 42:04 reparative therapy, they couldn't get the healing that they really desperately That's 42:08 amazing. Because these categories that are here, my hope is in Christ for a truly 42:17 transformed life. And what you brought into some kind of identity card created found in 42:22 Christ and his transforming work in us. Talk about that because you've been down road 42:29 and the transformation, as you talked about, it's something that is very real for you. It 42:34 is that it's a difficult topic, but one that I feel that I have to be transparent 42:43 I my life. It's not perfect. I believe that if you come to Christ in your converted and 42:48 you become perfect club, then we certainly would both rapture sense that what's the 42:54 point of keeping us here on Earth? If we've got a ride in this perfect state, why saying 42:59 that? I don't want to say that there's an excuse for Sen Butts and has to play out on 43:02 this earth. God takes our juices, takes our sins as we confess them and puts them. 43:10 I'm in the Holy Place and he's holding them there as as he is a time for them. But he he is 43:21 position of while we're still living to see if we are going to live in agreement with the 43:27 confession that we have made for him. His blood is certainly paid for that. And 43:31 so. I I am glad that for his leniency with me over the years and the difficulties 43:41 that I and caving into temptations and desires even having having him come having 43:48 even has coming back as a believer and a Christian and Jesus Christ today that that 43:54 she that blood was shed for me so that I can seek forgiveness. But when we make 43:59 for repentance, I ask for God to have a genuine repentance in my life today because it is 44:04 a turning away from Sen and that's why I believe that in the transformation process 44:10 that there needs to be more put in place for me. There needs to be more resources and 44:16 which I can go to and seek a biblical way of which I'm healing in Jesus Christ today. 44:22 I want more then just having come back and say, oh, gee says you're right now, I I 44:28 want to I want to know the fullness of my new life in Christ today. That's right. A 44:33 man. What can a person do? Who wants to preserve the power of choice? 44:38 >> And maintained religious freedom >> that's an important 44:42 question. So yes, if you want to preserve our choices that we have today, and then I 44:48 would write your get in touch with legislators and let them know that there is value human 44:55 choices and religious freedom, the right to choose. Get in touch with organizations like 45:01 the changed organization that is in California through changed ministries. That is 45:08 that with Ken Williams and Elizabeth wanting get in touch with people like myself on 45:14 that will help you recognize and that there are putting it petitions that you can get 45:20 involved with. Get in touch. If you as a result what's happening on university 45:27 campuses today that they're not receiving the gospel as it relates to LGBT activism and 45:32 what's possible through Jesus Christ should be writing to your pastors. Your conference, 45:38 presidents and to the university presidents. When I was here speaking February, I 45:45 had the privilege of speaking at your church. Pastor John during the Q and a time there 45:52 was a reference made to the prerequisites at a college and you were talking about the not 45:59 premarital sex and and not allowing homosexual behaviors and all these different 46:06 things. And I thought, oh, wow, which university is it? Because I I know all of our 46:10 universities and I've been begging in my mind, you know, of that. They would put this 46:16 on applications so that people would know that you can come here if you're suffering, but 46:20 we don't endorse the behaviors will help you get out of these behaviors. 46:24 >> Who is putting this records that on on their applications and at the end, you sure that 46:29 it was from Oral Roberts University and what was the time makes perfect sense 46:34 because it's certainly not one of our university and this, you know, that needs to 46:36 change. Honestly, that needs to change because it's this is something that let me just 46:42 make a point right But I think a lot of people wonder, what can be done? 46:47 >> Neutrality, we're not living in an age when neutrality is a safe place to 46:50 be. And we're not living in an age where we're going to be able to maintain the freedoms 46:54 that God has given to us. I don't know exactly who said it exactly. But freedoms are not 47:00 maintained by silence. We have to be. Literally people proactive in making decisions 47:06 about our own lives and want to go back to the fact that yes, there's a power that's 47:12 available in Christ. Wayne has made a lot of references to different organizations. You 47:16 can refer to let me get down to the brass tacks of and I don't think you'd be here if 47:20 it were not for Christ. I absolutely I know I know is not funding the organizations, 47:26 but the but the transforming power. And this is something that we have upheld and still 47:31 believe to this very day, he cries is able to do exceedingly abundantly above 47:38 all that you ask or think and everything that demands our obedience. We have to choose 47:46 to go that route because nothing takes us by for us right to say that we are, you 47:51 know, I'm Rob because money for me rob a bank somebody force me to take marijuana, 47:56 those that want that long ago. But so far when it's a lot of practice, we have to decide. 48:00 Yes, and we have to choose everyday. Joshua, 24 15 choose each day. As one person said 48:06 you have to choose who you want to be in Christ. He cries will empower you to become 3rd 48:11 in division. Yes, in doing so. It's important to acquaint yourself with the issues 48:18 informed from a from a Christian standpoint. >> About these therapies reach 48:23 while to myself. You can reach out. I'm happy to give you more information as it relates 48:27 to this so that when it comes time when these things begin to hit the ballots, it's 48:33 important that we preserve our again, religious freedom and human rights. 48:38 >> I'll tell you, this is really amazing because a lot of times, as you think about 48:42 this, somebody may be saying, well. I want to ask a question, but I may not have 48:49 the how to be able to do so. We have a few minutes left in the program. If you want to 48:53 sign a question in there, yeah, you can text the 261-8228. 3, 9, 7, 5, at 6, 1, 49:00 8, 2, 2, 8, 3, 9, 7, 5, Or you prefer e-mail. And that is live at 3 a p n Dot TV as we 49:07 as we wind up a program this evening and then now, you know, you know, going forward 49:12 in Christ. What would you say to a person? This is weighing your story is great. But I 49:20 don't think I could be possibly deliver. What do you say that? Well, I have. 49:26 >> I have to refer you to the verses that have become iconic for me. And that first that 49:32 that I found God as trustworthy and that his word is trustworthy. And when I 49:37 came back to Christ, I grabbed the Bible. It wasn't this one. I went to a church had been to 49:44 church in 40 and I walked in. I sat down in the end, the pastored directed us to 49:51 Philippians 4.13. yes. And my friend had written at the top 35 years earlier and having 49:56 given me the Bible and that had been open since them. He wrote, Wayne can do all things 50:02 through Jesus Christ. And while this is not coincidence that I'm sitting here today 50:05 with this sermon today that God assured me that I could do all things through him. I 50:15 would later come to the knowledge of Philippians 1, 6, that says he will finish the 50:18 work that he can in that If you are LGBT and you are angry or upset. I understand that 50:28 there's we have not done a good job as a church in providing answers or solutions 50:32 or even showing compassion and help. But today I'm reach out to 2 ministries such as no. 50:39 His love ministries another coming out. DOT org there's representation of ways to come 50:51 back to Christ today to live in alignment with scripture. But most of all, I'm getting 50:56 in touch with other testimonies and falling in love with Jesus. Because 51:00 really, if you're just doing it because it, you know, you want to become a legalistic 51:04 Christian, you want to become a believer who is developing into Missy which ISIS if I'm 51:10 not developing into missing with Jesus, that I might as well go back to what came 51:13 natural to me in and live according to what my flesh called out for. Yes, well, 51:18 here's a question. What is the difference? >> Between your ministry and 51:25 Michael called du Chee of coming out Ministries, which you were a part of and what 51:32 made you start chill own ministry. >> And to John Loma can 51:35 understand that the wood previous that is the normal practice of old a man with 51:40 young boys back in ancient Rome. >> Coming up ministries. Yes. 51:47 So I retired co-founder of coming out Ministries ministry that 11 years old, a 4 and a 51:54 half years ago. I've shared this before, but I continue to share I did experience, as I 52:01 mentioned earlier, a moral I did bring it before my colleagues and threw to the 52:08 board who asked me for my immediate resignation. And I spend the next here and a half 52:16 on the sofa binge watching a crime drama, reality television and cooking shows. 52:22 And I was like Lord. Take issue with what your words have believed, what your word 52:31 says. I'm an advocate for what I will always hold up the word as being true. And I've told 52:37 people today if I were to leave now and returned to the LGBT plus community, it does 52:41 not change the truth and love message of Jesus Christ. And so as I sat there, you know, 52:47 all that time, I was still going to church, but I wasn't knowing what God wanted from 52:51 me. And I friend of mine who lived in New Zealand said when are you familiar with 52:59 Proverbs? 24 16. And that's as I shared earlier this evening. know that a righteous man fall 53:05 7 times, but he says, I don't think that's finished with you. And know I think you just 53:09 gave me confirmation of why I was on this vacation and I was asking God, what did he want 53:12 me to do? But I got back home. I immediately had a voicemail that was asking me to give a 53:19 seminar, which I hadn't had for the the previous year and a half. And I also have the 53:25 invitation to write the line by line to analyze the guiding families book. And so God, you 53:31 know, put me back in a place of witnessing for him today. And so I decided that I had 53:37 it. I had initiated my own personal ministry again. No, his love and so I I I just 53:46 brought that back to the surface. I work agreement with coming up ministries. Is there 53:50 any difference? I'm not not They're the only difference really right now is that I've 53:56 taken off in exploring this new column of rebuild that about restoration in Christ. 54:04 Looking for more, I want more more than what I had. So, but it is the same biblical 54:09 message that we share. We support each other on that. >> You know, and I want to say 54:13 it's the past and I think this is vitally important. I so appreciate your approach to 54:16 this and being willing. >> all noble man and also. Prayerfully almost like a one 54:24 man army saying, okay, yeah, I'm one voice but all it takes far to get a fire going and 54:30 even to be brave enough to apologize for those who have not had the scale 54:33 understanding of how to deal with people in the past. And this is something that we do 54:37 support. That's why here 3 apn ministry is in fact, supporters of is approaching 54:43 to counteract the counties that they are counterfeits as to saying that you can't be 54:48 delivered. But as let's go back to one of the most beautiful pairs in the Bible 54:51 and David fell. David pray the prayer. I believe that Wayne that got hurt and wanes heart. 54:57 When you fall. Here's what David said. with its and 51 for 7 purge me with his I 55:02 shall be clean. Wash me and I will be wider than snow. Make me hear when you binge 55:09 watching all those things, feeling depressed and cast out. Make me here. The joy and 55:13 gladness that the bones, you have broken, they rejoice. Hi Joe, face from my sins and 55:18 blot out my iniquities and then this. The prayer of everyone who sense creating 55:23 the a clean heart and renew right spirit within me, do not cast me away from your 55:28 presence and do not take your holy spirit for me. The rebuild column is right here 55:32 restored to me. The joy of your salvation and hold of me. By your generous spirit. And 55:40 this is what Wayne is doing right now. Then I will teach us transgressors your ways and 55:51 sinners shall be converted to That's your ministry. There that there were many that said 55:57 in while I was in ministry, we're just waiting for him to fall. As know, that would 56:00 invalidate the gospel. >> How many of you were actually waiting for me to get 56:04 back up because it was it was the prayers and encouragement that he did. So if you fall, 56:11 get back up. That's my. That's what my dad said to me. Any with major encouragement. 56:16 >> Any comments and before we go, I am's I was so encouraged by this. My heart is just 56:21 Wong. >> Because it gives hope to those who feel hopeless men. 56:25 >> I think you knew you willing to go anywhere. 2 share with 56:31 >> That's right. don't call me. I don't think it no. His love Dot org, correct? No. His 56:38 love dot org. They get a lot more information and also invite Wayne to come and ask 56:46 questions. We've alive said he asked questions. People have been been very open, very 56:49 revelatory things that you could share their that he may not be able to share here on 56:52 television. But once again, thank you for staying with us. We hope that you have found 56:57 what we have hope to communicate. That's the live rounds and freedom. 57:01 >> To the blood of Jesus Christ with a forward to seeing you 57:06 ♪ ♪ ♪ 57:21 ♪ ♪ ♪ |
Revised 2022-03-25