Participants:
Series Code: TDYL
Program Code: TDYL200008A
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00:02 I want to spend my life
00:08 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:19 Removing pain 00:24 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:35 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:09 Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today Live. 01:13 Live, oh my goodness. 01:15 So many things can happen with live 01:17 but that's one of the things that's so interesting and fun 01:20 about being on a live program. 01:23 I must tell you tonight 01:24 that this program is featuring a very sensitive topic. 01:29 It's not for young children. 01:31 So if you have any young children, 01:32 just make sure they go to bed 01:33 because this really is a topic for young adults and adults. 01:40 We're going to be talking tonight 01:41 about pornography in the churches. 01:44 And I'm so thankful 01:47 that we have our guests with us tonight 01:49 because they have been dealing 01:52 with sharing their journeys with this issue 01:55 and their victory through Jesus. 01:58 And so we have Coming Out Ministries with us. 02:01 We have Mike Carducci 02:04 that is the co-founder of Coming Out Ministries. 02:07 Yay! 02:08 And we have Khadija, no, Kezia. 02:11 Kezia. 02:13 Okay, everybody messes up your name, right? 02:14 It's totally fine. It happens. 02:17 I'm sorry, it's Kezia Chisholm. Yes. 02:20 And we're so happy to have you and Harrison Umaña. 02:24 And both of you are speakers for Coming Out Ministries. 02:28 One of the things that I'm thrilled about 02:31 with Coming Out Ministries is that when they go into an area 02:37 and talk to the people about these different topics 02:41 that are very delicate. 02:43 They're going in with an attitude 02:46 of love and grace and not condemnation. 02:49 This is one of my, I have to tell you, 02:51 you're not supposed to have favorite ministries maybe, 02:54 but this is one of my favorite ministries 02:56 because so many people are enslaved to sexual sin. 03:01 And nobody's talking about it 03:03 or not many are talking about it 03:06 because it's such a private issue, it's a thing 03:09 that so many people are shamed to share. 03:13 But we here at 3ABN 03:15 have to counteract the counterfeit. 03:17 We have to expose what Satan is doing. 03:20 The grasp that he has on our people around the world, 03:25 this grasp has to be broken and so how is that done? 03:30 We're going talk about victory tonight, 03:33 we're going to talk about the tools 03:34 to be set free and so, 03:37 I just want to say thank you again 03:39 for being here. 03:40 Let's talk to you about who you are, what... 03:44 First of all, tell us about Coming Out Ministries, 03:46 what you're doing? 03:47 Yeah, Coming Out Ministry started 10 years ago. 03:50 Ten years ago, this year. 03:51 And it was by five individuals 03:53 that had their own independent ministries 03:56 talking about God's ability to redeem and restore people 03:59 that had LGBT attraction. 04:02 And as we started working together, 04:05 we recognized that if one testimony was good 04:08 then five had to be even better. 04:10 And so Coming Out Ministries was formed 04:11 and people were very skeptical about a title that said, 04:15 "Coming Out Ministries" 04:16 and people were like, is this gay affirming, 04:19 you know what is it and then people thought that, 04:22 well, if they're coming out of homosexuality, 04:25 they must be haters of people that are LGBT, 04:28 and we've had wonderful opportunities 04:31 that once we actually get into a place 04:33 which was somewhat difficult. 04:35 Still is even today 04:36 because of people's preconceived ideas. 04:38 But then, all of a sudden their hearts start to warm up 04:40 and they realize that, oh, you're not haters 04:43 but you're not, you know, 04:45 people that are saying that it's okay to be gay either 04:47 and it's a very delicate balance 04:49 to not only bring in the truth of Jesus Christ 04:51 to redeem and to restore, 04:53 but also to do it in a loving way 04:55 because the two opinions that we had in the church 04:57 when I came back, at 40 years old was that, 05:01 is that God hated gays and that they couldn't change 05:04 or that God loved gays, but they still couldn't change. 05:07 And so to tell somebody that they can change 05:09 through Jesus Christ is now considered hate speech. 05:12 So Coming Out Ministries is here to show that love 05:15 and truth combined is the true essence, 05:18 the pure essence of the gospel. 05:19 Oh, that's beautiful. 05:20 And that is what is, it's like, 05:24 it's such a truism that we have to know 05:29 that there's victory and we cannot be condemning. 05:34 Everybody, we're all sinners in need of a savior. 05:37 And Satan knows where our weak points are 05:40 and that's what he capitalizes on. 05:43 And what you guys do is you go in and you say, 05:45 "Look, I was in bondage to this, 05:49 but Jesus set me free." 05:51 And one of the things that's going on now is that, 05:54 you know, this whole idea of being born this way 05:57 or I can't get past this 05:59 or there's nothing wrong with it, 06:02 but we know that people are enslaved to it. 06:05 Tell us a little bit about your journey 06:07 and then we want to hear from Kezia and Harrison. 06:11 Great. 06:12 So for me all of this really started 06:14 with my father. 06:16 I thought that, you know, 06:17 that as I came into this relationship 06:18 with Jesus Christ, 06:20 the only two questions that I had for Him is, 06:21 I want to know why I was a girl trapped in a boy's body. 06:25 And that was my very first conscious thought 06:26 at 40 years old. 06:27 And then my second question was, 06:29 I wanted to know 06:30 why I was same sex attracted at puberty. 06:32 It wasn't something that I created, 06:34 it wasn't something that I was drawn to, 06:36 it's just something that kind of like, 06:38 was like this natural feeling. 06:40 So again I thought that I was born transgender, 06:43 of course, I wasn't born gay 06:44 because those attractions didn't come until puberty. 06:47 But as I started to walk in this relationship with God 06:50 and because our church had no resources on this topic, 06:54 God had to start to show me 06:56 that through Bible Study, through science 06:58 and being able to put all of this together 07:01 and, you know, studying the Word of God 07:03 and also listening to different sermons, 07:05 I started to put together like these pieces of the puzzle. 07:08 And the Lord started to show me that defensive detachment 07:11 which is a clinical term, 07:12 it happened even before I was conscious. 07:14 Little boys don't know that they're boys 07:16 and girls don't know that they're girls 07:17 until about the ages of one to three. 07:20 So what had happened is, my consciousness, 07:22 I don't even remember anything before four years old. 07:25 But by the time I was four years old, 07:26 I knew that there was something different. 07:29 I felt that I was a girl trapped in a boy's body. 07:31 I only like doing the things that girls like to do, 07:34 playing with dolls, 07:35 dressing up in my mother's clothing 07:37 and I had three sisters. 07:38 But not until I heard the term defensive detachment in my 40s, 07:42 did I start to realize 07:44 that this is something that had happened 07:45 not before I was born 07:46 but definitely between those formative years 07:48 between one and three. 07:50 Every little boy starts to realize 07:52 that they're not like their mom 07:53 between one and three 07:54 so there's this transition that takes place to the father. 07:57 You know, the dad takes a kid and throws him up in the air. 08:00 And the mother screams and the dad laughs 08:02 and the kid starts to realize 08:04 that the dads are dangerous but safe, right? 08:07 And so during that time, 08:08 my dad was in the Navy and he'd be gone, 08:10 sometimes six months at a time. 08:12 So for me that was almost half my life. 08:14 So then when my dad was home, 08:16 he was abusive and loud and angry. 08:18 And so, as I was making this transition 08:20 from my mother to my father, 08:21 he either wasn't available for me, 08:23 or he was frightening, and I rejected his masculinity. 08:27 So in my defense, 08:29 I detached from him as my role model. 08:31 And so the only example left for me was my mother. 08:34 So I wanted to walk like her, 08:35 talk like her, you know, dress like her 08:38 and all of that had happened before time 08:40 when I was even conscious. 08:42 So now I look back and I go, I wasn't born transgender. 08:45 I was born normal and, 08:47 and all of these things that were happening after, 08:50 you know, the birth process were environmental issues. 08:53 However, I don't neglect the idea 08:56 that some things were hereditary 08:57 and some things are cultivated. 08:59 Ellen White is very clear about that. 09:01 So if somebody says that they're born gay 09:03 or that they're born transgender, 09:04 we don't argue with them. 09:06 Instead, we give them that, say, guess what? 09:08 We were all shaped in iniquity. 09:09 We were all born indecent. 09:11 So, you know, take your du jour, 09:13 whichever, you know, 09:14 sin temptation you were born with, 09:15 we all have that. 09:17 But Jesus says that we must be born again. 09:19 Yes, yes. 09:20 Thank you for that. 09:22 Kezia, what about you? Yes. 09:23 So similar to Mike in regards 09:25 to just coming from an environment 09:27 where things are really shaky. 09:29 My parents are two different skin colors in a sense. 09:33 My mom is Filipino 09:34 and then my father is Guyanese. 09:36 So already from a young age, 09:37 I knew that I was totally different 09:39 from my mom, who was the woman, 09:41 the girl that I'm, you know, trying to look up to. 09:43 And so I was already struggling with self identity 09:46 when it came to my skin complexion, 09:48 when it came to the texture of my hair. 09:49 You know, my hair is curly. 09:51 My mom's hair is straight. 09:52 And so already from a young age, 09:54 I was already asking God, 09:55 you know, make me yellow, because I just thought, 09:57 you know, maybe over time I could, 09:59 you know, my skin could become like my mother's skin tone. 10:02 So for the most part at home, 10:03 God wasn't necessarily the center of our household. 10:06 Sometimes we would go to church if we had time. 10:09 But it really wasn't until about the age of five. 10:12 This was around kindergarten, 10:13 where I ended up having my first sexual encounter 10:15 with a girl at school. 10:17 And so I wasn't taught that, 10:19 you know, if someone does touch you 10:20 that you should say something, 10:22 and I thought that this was okay, 10:23 that it wasn't really a big issue. 10:25 And for this to happen, 10:27 you know, during school hours, this was at public school, 10:29 I just realized that, 10:31 you know, I thought everyone went through this. 10:34 But failing to realize that this was something 10:36 that really started the journey to something 10:38 that it eventually became uncontrollable. 10:41 So eventually, by the age of nine, 10:43 I end up having another encounter, 10:46 this time with girls as well, 10:48 and this time in a group setting. 10:49 And so I just thought that okay, 10:51 when it comes to sex now that it's either with girls 10:55 or in a group setting, 10:57 so I'm already having this before the age of 10. 10:59 And so by the time, this is by age of 12, 11:03 my parents end up divorcing 11:05 so that really just compounded 11:07 with the things I was already dealing with, 11:09 where with my dad leaving being 11:11 that he's black, he's from Guyana. 11:13 I was just under the impression that, 11:15 you know, what do I do now, 11:16 you know, what's the meaning of life, 11:18 where I had to understand 11:19 that my mom had to figure out her new life 11:21 as a single mother. 11:22 And at that time, it was really hard for us 11:24 and seeing that she was now transitioning 11:27 and trying to understand her new role 11:29 and having to work longer hours. 11:31 Me, just, you know, at home, 11:33 I'll go to school, but at the same time, 11:35 in trying to deal with the things 11:37 I was quietly going through, 11:38 and my turn to anything just really numb 11:41 what I was feeling. 11:43 So that was just being very promiscuous, 11:45 either with girls or guys becoming depressive, 11:50 filled with lot of depression. 11:52 I mean, a lot of suicidal thoughts at that time, 11:54 and then also a lot of anger, 11:57 especially when it came to my parents 11:58 where I just wanted both of them dead 12:00 because of the level of frustration 12:03 that I had built up 12:04 and trying to figure out how do I now do life, 12:07 because at that time in Brooklyn, New York, 12:08 it wasn't really a lot of interracial relationships. 12:12 It wasn't really popular at that time. 12:14 And so for me, I'm just trying to figure out who am I, 12:17 because I just thought that I could only be one 12:19 and not accept how God had created me. 12:23 And so even with the promiscuity, 12:25 there was also the drinking involved, 12:28 smoking marijuana, 12:30 also just the pornography and masturbation. 12:31 So there were just a lot of things I was turning 12:34 to just trying to find some sort of direction. 12:37 Even when it came to horoscopes, 12:38 I was really big on that, just thinking that 12:40 I'll get some sort of guidance from there. 12:43 But it really wasn't until some years later 12:46 where God really just kind of stepped in. 12:49 Even in the midst of what I was doing, 12:51 that He really spoke to me in a dream 12:53 where He showed me that He still loves me. 12:57 So that was a turning point for me. 13:00 That's beautiful. 13:01 You know, it's interesting to me 13:03 how the enemy, you know, will take a situation 13:07 that has brokenness 13:10 and really zero in on that, 13:13 and then just begin to try to break it even further 13:18 and take you down in a downward spiral, 13:20 you know, with drugs, with promiscuity, 13:23 with pornography, with horoscopes, 13:27 just like it's this downward spiral. 13:30 Because we always say, 13:32 and I've said it on Dare to Dream, 13:34 and I've said it on 3ABN on the parent network, 13:37 God has a plan for us 13:38 and the enemy has a plan for us. 13:40 God's plan. 13:41 He knows the thoughts 13:43 that He thinks toward us lots of peace and not of evil, 13:45 to give us a future and a hope or an expected end. 13:49 But the enemy, he wants to kill, 13:52 steal and destroy, and that's what he does. 13:54 So he is going to take you down. 13:56 God's going to bring you up, 13:58 and it's just like, as I listened, 14:01 we can just see how the enemy has zeroed in 14:05 on the places of brokenness and tried to just destroy, 14:09 but God had another plan, right? 14:10 What you're going to say, Michael? 14:12 Well, what I found really amazing 14:14 in my conversations with Kezia is that, 14:16 you know, this is an issue of identity 14:19 and from my perspective, 14:20 because I didn't come from what Kezia did, 14:23 I thought that the only issues with identity was, 14:25 you know, your attraction, you know, LGBT issues, 14:28 but now I realized that just as strong as my identity 14:31 was being challenged, 14:32 Kezia's identity was being challenged 14:34 but through the races, like am I yellow or am I black? 14:38 And I wish you'd share that story 14:39 about your mom and dad taking you to junior high 14:43 'cause that really says it all. 14:44 Yeah. 14:46 Um, so this was a time 14:47 where first day of middle school 14:48 and the school I was going to 14:50 was predominantly a Caribbean black school. 14:51 And we would have like, 14:53 I remember just like a few Asians like, 14:54 really small amount. 14:55 And so this is the first day I remember just holding on 14:57 to my mom's hand and then my dad's hand. 15:00 So you know, both are on each side, 15:03 one on each side. 15:04 And I remember we're getting closer 15:05 to the school yard. 15:07 And because I could notice from a distance 15:08 that majority of the students were black, 15:10 I just got nervous. 15:12 And I was like, mom, you can let go of my hand 15:13 because you're yellow and I'm black. 15:15 So I was just always thinking, I cannot be both. 15:18 It's impossible because of how I look. 15:21 So, I mean, that was really how my mindset in regards 15:24 to who I was just realizing that I couldn't be both. 15:29 But over time, you know, through God's grace, 15:31 recognizing that, you know, 15:32 that's who He chose as my parents, 15:34 and it's a beautiful thing over the times I've learned. 15:37 Look at her, exactly. 15:38 Definitely learning that over time, 15:40 but you know, my earlier years, 15:43 it was really a struggle for me 15:44 because I always just thought I could only be one, 15:46 can't be both. 15:47 Again, Satan just wants to, 15:50 you know, instead of accepting 15:53 who you are and loving it and embracing it, 15:55 because it's just like a combination of cultures. 15:59 Instead, you know, 16:01 Satan just wants to tear you apart emotionally. 16:05 And that's what he does. 16:07 There's so many people 16:08 who are struggling with those same issues. 16:11 Harrison, what about you? 16:13 Well, you can see that is an issue of identity. 16:17 That happened to me also but in a spiritual area 16:23 because I was born in an Adventist home. 16:26 But my parents 16:28 they were not completely... 16:34 they were not completely 16:35 having that relationship with God. 16:38 So it was confusing to me to be on the church 16:44 and you know, looking perfect or looking, 16:49 okay, everything is fine in that family. 16:52 But then when we get back to home, 16:55 it was difficult situation. 16:57 You know, my parents arguing constantly 17:02 and also fighting, 17:04 there was even physical violence. 17:08 And so, I was confused 17:11 as to why we are like this in the church 17:16 and then in our home is completely different. 17:20 So I did not develop 17:23 that deeper relationship with God. 17:28 As my parents, 17:29 they did not taught me about it. 17:32 So I had some void 17:37 in my heart. 17:39 Spiritually, I just thought 17:41 that I needed to go to the church, 17:43 just to sit there, be quiet, 17:47 pay attention to the preacher, 17:50 be part of the Adventurer's Club 17:52 or Pathfinders in Sierra. 17:56 That was all the things that I thought 17:59 or that I thought that I needed to do 18:04 in order to have the favor from God. 18:08 So it was very difficult being. 18:11 So when I was growing up, 18:14 I remember going to the school 18:17 in a moment of... 18:21 Well, when all the guys are, 18:24 you know, sharing together after the lessons, 18:28 after the classes, 18:31 we were talking about one of them 18:33 was talking about pornography 18:36 and also about masturbation. 18:38 At the time, I didn't know what he was referring about, 18:42 but he explained it. 18:45 And I was just curious, 18:47 what was that and so I fell into it, 18:51 when I was like 11 or 12 years old. 18:56 The rest of my life, it was the same. 19:00 I thought that I was not doing something bad. 19:03 I thought that it was normal for men. 19:08 So okay, in teenage year, 19:10 this is something that needs to come 19:12 and that's okay. 19:14 So I even was that kind of guy 19:17 that make fun of those 19:19 that were not practicing that. 19:24 And so, right now remember and history, 19:28 well, something that happened to me when a classmate, 19:32 I remember making fun of him 19:34 because he was not practicing that. 19:36 And so, I said to him, 19:39 "Well, if you were not practicing that 19:44 is because you are not a man. 19:46 You are a gay, you're homosexual." 19:48 And so he said to me, "No, that's not true." 19:54 Was he a Christian? 19:55 Yes, he was Christian. 19:58 So right now, 20:00 I understand that he received the advice, 20:06 the concept from his parents in the right way 20:09 and at the right time for him. 20:12 At the moment I thought he was just crazy and scruffy. 20:16 How can he say that to me? 20:17 Yeah. 20:19 Yeah, sorry. 20:20 So, Yvonne, this is why, 20:22 you know when you get that disclaimer 20:24 at the beginning of the show, 20:26 this program really is appropriate for children 20:28 but the parents should watch it first, of course. 20:30 Yes. 20:31 But some of the statistics that I have, you know, 20:33 Harrison was exposed at 11 years old to porn, 20:36 Kezia even before school. 20:38 Did you know that the average age 20:39 of first internet exposure to pornography? 20:41 Eleven years old. 20:43 Fifteen to seventeen year olds 20:45 having multiple hardcore exposures 20:47 and we're not talking about just looking 20:48 at naked images we're talking about, 20:50 you know, people actually engaging 20:52 in sexual acts. 20:53 80% and 90% of 8-16 year olds 20:58 are viewing pornography online and mostly while doing... 21:00 Eight? 21:01 Eight to sixteen year olds mostly while doing homework. 21:04 There was a young man, 21:05 he was seminary student shared with us 21:07 that at seven years old, he was addicted to porn. 21:10 His mother and father kept the computer 21:11 in the family room. 21:13 And he went to an academy, went to an Adventist school. 21:17 And his best friend brought a piece 21:19 of printed pornography from his computer at home, 21:22 and that was when this child became addicted to pornography 21:25 at seven years old. 21:26 And we're talking about, 21:28 that was like, this person is like 28 now. 21:31 So we're talking a good 20 years ago. 21:33 And see, you know, it's funny, 21:34 because in my head, I'm thinking, 21:37 "Well, you know, teens, 21:40 teens start that I had, 21:43 I had no idea it was seven and eight year olds. 21:45 Not anymore! Yes. 21:46 Now that we've got these smart devices 21:48 that have access to the internet, 21:49 I tell people 21:51 if you do not have accountability software 21:53 on your children's devices, 21:55 it's like giving a razor blade to an infant. 21:57 That's just how powerless your children are 21:59 against this evil. 22:01 Because there, I had some statistics too 22:04 on how prevalent it is just on the internet 22:08 like people, kids are watching. 22:11 I know kids are tuning in, 22:13 but it is just, I mean, 22:15 and I'll come across in a minute. 22:16 In fact, we have a musical selection for you 22:20 from Kendol Bacchus and he's going to be playing 22:23 "Shepherd of My Heart." 28:03 Thank you so much, Kendol. 28:05 That was so soothing. 28:07 Was that just not beautiful? 28:08 Thank you so much "Shepherd of My Heart." 28:11 So tonight if you're just tuning in, 28:13 we're so glad that you did 28:15 because this is a very serious topic 28:18 that is affecting so many people in our churches 28:23 and nobody wants to talk about it. 28:25 So we're here with Coming Out Ministries, 28:27 Mike Carducci, and Kezia Chisholm, 28:30 and Harrison Umaña. 28:32 And so we're here talking 28:34 about pornography in the churches. 28:37 Mike, tell us some more about how pervasive this is? 28:42 Sure. 28:43 It's an issue that is rarely 28:45 if ever talked about in the church, 28:47 and Coming Out Ministries 28:48 wants to address it in a way that's biblical and redemptive, 28:52 but at the same time, 28:53 not instructing children on how to sin 28:56 but rather how to find their way out of sin. 28:58 So many people don't realize the devastation 29:00 of what the porn industry is doing to our church, 29:03 let alone the world. 29:04 The pornography industry is larger than the revenues 29:07 of the top technology companies combined. 29:10 Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple, 29:13 Netflix and EarthLink combined, 29:15 pornography still makes more than these companies. 29:18 And then according to Christian statistics, 29:21 Family Safe Media reports that 53% of Christian men, 29:26 promise keepers visit porn sites every week. 29:28 And it's not something that's limited just to men. 29:31 In a poll of 1000 respondents, 29:32 50% of Christian men and 20% of Christian women 29:36 were found to be addicted to pornography. 29:39 What I find the most shocking statistic that I have is 29:42 that according to Covenanteyes.com, 29:45 only 3% of boys and 17% of girls 29:49 have never seen internet pornography. 29:51 Only 3%? 29:52 Only 3% and 17% of girls. 29:54 It says 97% of boys have seen it. 29:57 And 83% of girls. 29:59 This is something that is 30:00 just taking our children by storm. 30:03 It became so evident to me 30:05 when I met Kezia just three years ago, 30:07 that when we were speaking together, 30:09 and she was talking about how here she was 30:12 a major speaker on this mission trip to Cuba, 30:15 and she's talking about the tabernacle 30:16 and the sanctuary 30:18 and talking about that application to the gospel, 30:21 a powerful sermon 30:22 and yet still struggling 30:23 with pornography, masturbation, 30:25 and also sexual acting out. 30:27 And then to meet Harrison, 30:28 who's an elder in his church 30:30 also experiencing this addiction. 30:31 My eyes were open, 30:33 that this is a much more pervasive issue than something 30:36 that I was the only one struggling with. 30:37 Yes, yeah. 30:39 And that's, you know, 30:40 I think that's what's so important 30:41 to acknowledge here 30:43 that people are struggling with it 30:45 and don't know how to be set free from it. 30:48 But, Yvonne, we have a huge, huge message 30:52 from the pen of inspiration. 30:53 Ellen White made it very clear over 100 years ago, 30:56 exactly what we were going to be struggling with 30:58 and yet there's no, nobody's addressing it, 31:01 nobody's talking about it 31:02 other than that I know of Coming Out Ministries. 31:04 Listen to this. 31:05 This is from Testimonies on Sexual Behaviors, 31:07 Adultery and Divorce, page 84. 31:10 It says, "Satan's Repetitious Plot. 31:12 Near the close of this earth's history 31:15 Satan will work with all of his powers..." 31:17 Isn't that interesting? How many? 31:18 All of his powers. 31:20 "In the same manner and with the same temptations 31:22 wherewith he tempted ancient Israel 31:24 just before their entering the land of promise." 31:27 She says, "He will lay snares for those 31:29 who claim to keep the commandments of God, 31:31 and who are almost on the borders 31:33 of the heavenly Canaan. 31:35 He will use his powers to their utmost 31:38 in order to entrap souls, 31:40 and to take God's professed people 31:41 upon their weakest points. 31:43 Those who have not brought 31:45 the lower passions into subjection 31:46 to the higher powers of their being, 31:48 those who have allowed their minds 31:50 to flow in a channel of carnal indulgence 31:52 of the baser passions, 31:53 Satan is determined to destroy 31:55 with his temptations," get this, 31:58 "to pollute their souls with licentiousness." 32:01 If 3ABN weren't willing to really invest 32:04 in Coming Out Ministries, 32:05 what, nine years ago when this started, 32:07 I believe that this message would not get out. 32:10 And I think that part 32:11 of our Laodicea in the churches, 32:13 the fact that we have this information, 32:15 we were told that this 32:16 is exactly what was going to happen. 32:18 And here it is. 32:20 And yet nobody's talking about it. 32:21 Nobody's really addressing the issue head on. 32:24 Because people are ashamed. 32:26 You can't just come out and say, 32:29 you know, there's not a safe environment 32:33 for that kind of revelation usually. 32:35 So people don't want to say, 32:37 well, I'm entrapped by same sex attraction 32:40 or I'm entrapped by pornography or whatever it is, 32:44 because there's an element of shame attached to it. 32:48 And what we're saying today is, there is hope for you, 32:52 and then you don't have to be ashamed. 32:54 We're all sinners. 32:55 We're all sinners. 32:57 My sin is not your sins, 32:59 not the next person's sin, we're all sinners though. 33:02 And so we're not here to judge you. 33:03 We're here to offer you information and tools. 33:07 You might have a question or comment about this program. 33:11 We are going to be accepting questions. 33:14 And so you can email us at live@3abn.tv. 33:20 That's live@3abn.tv. 33:23 Or you can call in your question at 33:25 618-627-4651. 33:29 That's 618-627-4651. 33:34 You can ask anyone here on our panel a question 33:37 about whether it's same sex attraction, 33:39 pornography, any question that you might have, 33:43 we're not going to say your name. 33:44 You can remain anonymous, 33:45 but please feel free to call or email 33:49 with your questions or comments. 33:51 This again is a critical issue. 33:54 So I'd like to read a couple of scriptures 33:56 because I think that it's important the Bible, 33:59 you know, they didn't have pornography 34:01 back in those times. 34:02 But sin is sin, and I'm sure that, 34:05 you know, David was... 34:07 David had an issue with Bathsheba. 34:09 It wouldn't surprise me even the cavemen 34:11 were writing pornography on the walls. 34:14 That's how addictive this thing is. 34:15 It is. 34:17 And it's impossible to say that 34:18 if anything can be fortunate 34:19 about the times that we're living in now, 34:21 the church does not have the right, 34:23 any longer to stay silent on this issue. 34:25 That's right. 34:26 It is absolutely destroying 34:28 not only the people in the church, 34:29 but 62% of Christian pastors 34:31 are struggling with pornography addiction. 34:35 You told me that before and I was just floored. 34:38 Sixty two percent of Christian pastors 34:43 have this issue. 34:44 Our leadership has, in my opinion, 34:47 they have no other choice than 34:50 to start providing programs and opportunities 34:52 for our pastors and leadership to get out. 34:54 Yes, and we will talk about resources 34:57 and that kind of thing. 34:58 Let me just read two scriptures, 34:59 Psalm 101:3 says, 35:01 "I will set nothing wicked before my eyes. 35:05 If you don't watch it, you can't get hooked on it." 35:08 Once you watch it, 35:10 and it's like, it's almost like crack. 35:12 You know, they say that one exposure to crack, 35:16 you can be addicted from one exposure. 35:18 It's like that with pornography. 35:21 From being exposed that one time, 35:23 that first time, you can become addicted. 35:26 You don't have to stay addicted, 35:27 but you can become addicted. 35:29 So it's important to not even go there. 35:32 And it's so prevalent. 35:34 I think it's like 86% of the websites, 35:38 web pages, have porn. 35:42 That's it's... It's just everywhere. 35:45 The other verse that I wanted to share 35:47 was in Job 31:1, 35:50 where Job says, and he was a rich guy. 35:54 He was a rich guy. 35:55 "I made a covenant with my eyes. 35:57 Why then should I look upon a young woman." 36:00 And I said he was a rich guy 36:02 because he could have had anything he wanted, 36:05 but he made a covenant with his eyes 36:08 that he was not going to look upon a young woman, 36:11 he had his wife, 36:13 he's going to stay right there. 36:14 So I mean that it's really important 36:17 that we understand the principles 36:20 that are written in the Word. 36:22 We can make a covenant with our eyes 36:24 and set no wicked thing before our eyes. 36:28 And those things are important. 36:30 Yvonne, I got more. Yes. 36:32 It's so devastating, 36:34 47% of families in the United States reported 36:37 that pornography is a problem in their home. 36:40 Pornography also, 36:42 pornography use increases the marital infidelity rate 36:45 by more than 300%. 36:48 And over 40 million Americans are regular visits to porn, 36:52 are regular visitors to porn sites. 36:53 The average visit lasts 6 minutes and 29 seconds. 36:58 Forty million Americans. That's just Americans. 37:01 We're not talking about people around the world. 37:04 So if you're watching porn, 37:08 the average amount of time is six minutes? 37:11 Oh, I have a correction. 37:13 Seventy percent of Christian youth pastors 37:16 report that they have had at least one teen come to them 37:18 for help in dealing with pornography 37:20 in the past 12 months. 37:22 So it's not just older adults, it is across the board. 37:27 Yeah. 37:29 The porn industry knows 37:30 that the sooner that they can expose 37:32 a child to pornography, 37:33 the sooner that they can get the revenues. 37:34 Science has shown that when a young mind is exposed 37:37 to pornographic images 37:39 that the mind is so immature that it can't process that. 37:42 What it does is it creates this hook, 37:44 this drive for more. 37:46 A brain that is fully developed and for a male that's about 29, 37:49 for a female about 26. 37:51 Their exposure to porn, 37:52 if they've never seen it before, 37:54 for them is disturbing and disgusting, 37:56 but to a young mind, it creates an addiction 37:59 and the three of the people 38:00 that you're interviewing tonight 38:02 have all come from pornography addiction, 38:04 and many of us from a very young age. 38:06 So, let's start with you, Michael. 38:10 At what point did you begin to look at porn 38:14 and how did it just draw you in? 38:16 Well, you know, it was the early 70s. 38:18 And my mother was kind of trying 38:20 to be forward thinking, 38:21 and she could tell that I had some issues 38:23 with gender identity. 38:24 And so my mother gave me 38:25 my father's pornography magazines 38:27 when my father, you know, left the home. 38:29 And I remember looking at those images 38:31 at 10 years old, and I'm 60 now. 38:33 So when I looked at those images 38:34 at 10 years old, 38:35 I can still now recall their names, 38:37 I can still remember what they look like, 38:39 what the centerfolds were, but for a transgender person, 38:43 when I looked at those images, I was desperate 38:46 for male acceptance and male love. 38:47 And so I thought to myself, 38:49 I remember this thought 38:50 that if men were attracted to them, 38:52 or if men loved those images, 38:54 then if I look like those women, 38:56 then men would love me too. 38:58 So really my mother's attempt to help me 39:00 with healthy attraction actually backfired. 39:02 Yes. 39:04 I remember that even at 10 years old. 39:05 You know what's interesting to me 39:06 and this is kind of an aside. 39:08 But the whole transgender issue 39:11 where parents are allowing children to decide 39:16 that they should have that surgery. 39:20 It's mind boggling. 39:21 I would have been first in line. 39:23 At six years old, 39:24 I knew that I was a girl trapped in a boy's body 39:27 and if they had the laws that they have today, 39:29 where the government can step in 39:30 against the will of the parents 39:32 and start giving your children hormones 39:34 to block their puberty process, I would have been first. 39:37 Transgenderism followed me until I was 20 years old. 39:40 But there was a child that was eight years old 39:43 that began the hormone treatment 39:44 by permission with his mother, 39:46 and she was going through a therapist, 39:48 and the boy started to develop natural breasts. 39:50 His face started to change and become more feminine. 39:53 His voice didn't change. 39:55 So by the time he was 13, he announced to his mom, 39:58 he said, "Wait, I'm not a girl, I am a boy." 40:00 And so when they took him off of these hormones, 40:02 it's still they had to surgically remove 40:04 these naturally developed breasts 40:06 because of the hormones. 40:08 He's going to a voice coach now to lower his voice, 40:10 all because we allow children to determine what sex they are. 40:14 You know, a kid doesn't even know 40:15 what his favorite color is, 40:17 you know, from one day to the next. 40:18 And so we're going to let children 40:19 determine their sex? 40:21 Yes, absolutely. 40:22 And the most horrific thing about the transgender issue 40:24 is it doesn't change your DNA. 40:26 Your DNA is as mutable as your fingerprint. 40:29 And your DNA determines that you're male or female. 40:31 So I can mutilate my body 40:33 and make it appear female on the outside, 40:36 but you'll never give a transgender person 40:38 the opposite sex. 40:39 And they found that the suicide rates reflect that. 40:42 The suicide rates among 40:43 the transgender population is 30%, 40:46 a third of people struggling with transgender ideation 40:49 are committing suicide 40:51 but you're not going to hear that in the media 40:52 and a whopping 41% will actually attempt suicide. 40:56 And it's such a sad thing because this has, 41:01 the media really promotes this. 41:05 I mean, pushes it, like, 41:07 let's, oh, your child is that, is transgender. 41:10 Well, let's just, you know, support that. 41:13 And that's considered forward thinking, 41:15 and kindness, and humane. 41:18 What is it, like, 41:19 it's the ultimate expression of humanity 41:21 to tell someone to mutilate their body. 41:24 And then to give them these... 41:26 There was a woman in Belgium 41:27 who after her sex change to become a man, 41:30 she looked in the mirror, and she saw all of the scarring 41:33 and what the surgeries did to her body. 41:35 And she petitioned the government of Belgium 41:37 to give her an assisted suicide 41:39 because she said, 41:40 "I couldn't stand the way that I looked in the mirror." 41:42 But again, you're not going to hear that in the media 41:43 and she was granted 41:45 that execution if you were to like it. 41:47 Euthanasia? 41:49 Yes, euthanasia. 41:50 Yeah, she was granted that 41:51 on the grounds of unbearable, 41:55 that she couldn't live that way anymore. 41:57 It's what we're doing in this country 42:01 and around the world, really, 42:03 with the whole sexual sin. 42:06 We're afraid to call it sin, 42:10 but we have to identify what it is, 42:14 if you can't identify what it is, 42:16 then you can't talk about the remedy for it. 42:20 What it is, Yvonne, and when I thought about this, 42:22 or when it was revealed to me, 42:25 I again see the power of the enemy. 42:27 The enemy wants to kill, 42:29 steal and destroy that precious gift 42:31 that God has given to men and to women, 42:33 you know, in Chapter 1 of Genesis 42:36 verses 27 and 28. 42:37 It says that God made them male and female, 42:40 and the first work that He gave them 42:42 was to be fruitful and multiply. 42:44 And so that was the fullest expression of God. 42:47 He gave us the ability to be creators ourselves 42:50 after He created us. 42:51 So don't you think that that really got 42:53 under the skin of the Devil? 42:54 You know, he said, "What? 42:56 You know, you're going to give man 42:57 the special gift of creation," 42:59 when Satan himself in his ego said, 43:00 he wanted to be like the Most High, right? 43:02 He wanted to be like God. 43:04 And so doesn't it make sense 43:05 that the LGBT issue really is designed 43:08 to do nothing more than to destroy the image of God 43:11 that was put inside of each one of us. 43:13 Yes. 43:14 That is the real bottom line. 43:17 And so how do we flip that perception? 43:20 That perception is flipped 43:22 by people understanding who God is, 43:25 what His original intention was, 43:27 and how much He loves us. 43:29 He loves, you know, 43:31 there's some Christians who are like, 43:33 God hates gays, God loves you. 43:36 If you're struggling with same sex attraction, 43:39 God loves you so much. 43:42 He wants to draw you to Him. 43:43 He wants to stop all the agony and the anxiety. 43:47 He wants to love you and to show you what true, 43:51 a true relationship with Him really is. 43:54 That's what it's all about. 43:56 And that's what I love about Coming Out Ministries. 43:59 I have to tell, you guys, I just love what you do. 44:03 Because again, you've been there, 44:05 you've had the experience, 44:06 and yet, God has brought you out 44:09 and now you can share it. 44:10 And I know that you get resistance 44:13 from people who are still in it, 44:15 because they don't want you to say, 44:17 you should come out of it. 44:19 No, accept it, embrace it. 44:21 No, that's not part of God's plan for you. 44:24 What about you, Kezia? 44:26 At what point did you get into pornography? 44:29 For myself, I don't have an exact age. 44:32 But I do know it was before my parents divorced. 44:34 So being that my parents divorced 44:36 when I was about 12, 44:38 so already by 12 I was already, 44:40 I know I was already active in it. 44:42 I know we had a TV, 44:43 or rather a computer in my parent's room, 44:46 and sometimes I would watch it in there 44:48 from time to time. 44:49 And so it really wasn't until just knowing 44:52 when my parents divorced afterwards, 44:54 just seeing how I was really addicted to it. 44:57 And really just seeing that I would turn to it anytime 44:59 I was really feeling depressed or sad, 45:02 and just really trying to have some sort of an outlet. 45:04 And so over time throughout all the years 45:07 just recognizing like the damage 45:08 that was done, 45:10 it really wasn't until I came across a study 45:12 from the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, 45:15 how they had, they did a brain scan, 45:17 and they showed a regular person's brain 45:19 had they never watched porn, 45:21 just a regular brain surface, the brain looked healthy. 45:24 And they had compared that to someone who had, 45:26 who was addicted to heroin. 45:28 And they show that that person's brain 45:30 had some holes in it in regards to the MRI scans. 45:32 And then they compared it 45:34 to someone who was addicted to pornography. 45:36 And it just showed the brain 45:37 having more holes within the brain. 45:39 And so, of course, it all varies 45:41 depending on the amount of usage 45:43 in regards to the years, the hours. 45:45 But over time, when I was learning 45:47 that I was a bit discouraged 45:48 and seeing that I was already damaging myself 45:50 from a young age, 45:52 but I never thought it really had any... 45:53 I didn't think it had any consequences per se 45:55 because it wasn't external. 45:57 So internally, there was a lot of things going on 46:00 especially with the brain, 46:01 and realizing I had to learn to rewire my brain, 46:04 which is really good 46:06 because as you had mentioned earlier, 46:07 to know God, to learn of who God is, 46:09 to learn of what He originally designed for us. 46:12 So over time, 46:14 I was seeing that what I had started 46:15 from such a young age, 46:16 that God was able to restore me, 46:19 because even though I had let go 46:21 of this smoking and the drinking, the partying, 46:24 when it came to the sexual addiction, 46:25 it was really hard to let go of, 46:27 like the sexual addiction to pornography, 46:29 the masturbation, 46:30 it was a struggle, it was a hole 46:32 because I realized that was something I turned to 46:35 anytime I was feeling depressed, 46:37 anytime I needed some sort of a comfort, 46:39 even if it was temporary, 46:40 even if it just provided some sort 46:42 of immediate gratification. 46:44 Because one of the things I was realizing over time 46:46 is that when it comes to relying on God, 46:49 that season of waiting, it's hard sometimes. 46:52 And so it's really easy to just go to pornography 46:55 and just to do certain things with people 46:57 because we don't want to wait on God. 46:59 And so I had to learn over time 47:00 that there's a reason why God desires for us to wait, 47:03 just like with Adam. 47:05 Before Eve even came, 47:07 there was that season of waiting, 47:08 but in his waiting he was still active, 47:09 he was working, 47:11 before even Eve came into the picture. 47:13 So just seeing what God originally designed, 47:15 and what I was doing was really just harming me. 47:18 Yvonne, it goes perfectly with your story. 47:20 Listen to this. 47:22 Women were two times more likely 47:24 to be introduced to pornography by someone older, 47:27 when they to very great extent 47:29 wanted more involvement with their father. 47:32 The risk tripled of being introduced 47:33 to pornography by someone older 47:35 for those who to a very great extent 47:37 wanted more of their mother's involvement. 47:40 You were ripe for pornography, Kezia. 47:43 The risk of being introduced to pornography 47:45 by someone older increased from 9 to 38% 47:48 when they reported their father 47:49 showed a very great deal more interest in a sibling. 47:53 So again, when these broken homes, 47:55 we have more single mothers raising families now 47:57 than ever before. 47:59 And the statistic, they say can never be reversed. 48:01 So we are creating a perfect storm 48:04 for porn addiction in children. 48:05 Yes, that's very true. 48:07 The whole family dynamic 48:11 does lend itself often to creating that addiction. 48:16 I was listening to what you were saying 48:17 about waiting on the Lord 48:19 and how sometimes it gets hard 48:21 and your anxiety level can go up. 48:24 And then you will resort to the things 48:27 that bring you temporary gratification. 48:30 Fix. 48:31 Yes, that kind of instant fix. 48:34 But yet, with that comes the guilt and the shame 48:38 because you realize once it's done that, 48:41 I shouldn't have done that. 48:42 So it's just an endless cycle. 48:46 And so praise God 48:48 that you learned to wait on Him. 48:51 Because the anxiety waiting on Him is way... 48:55 I mean, it's better than that. 48:58 It's not a long wait. 48:59 Yes, exactly, exactly. 49:02 What about you, Harrison? 49:03 At what point did you realize 49:05 that you were really hooked on pornography? 49:08 Well, as I was sharing, 49:11 I told that this addiction 49:15 was right for human. 49:18 And then he told that when I was, when I get married, 49:22 that was going to be gone. 49:24 And so, I say, well, there is no problem. 49:28 I can still doing it and even as I was sharing, 49:32 making fun of those that were not practicing, 49:35 and there is something 49:37 that I will like to bring 49:41 is about the... 49:43 In our churches, 49:45 there is a kind of practice 49:48 about classification of sins. 49:51 Yes. 49:52 Because, you know, we talk about many issues 49:56 like for example, the homosexuality. 50:00 We say, oh, that's the worst sin 50:02 that you can and even people that were in bondage 50:05 of pornography and masturbation 50:08 and being straight or heterosexual. 50:12 And so, it is a kind of, at that moment, I was thinking, 50:17 "Okay, well if you're not practicing 50:18 that you are homosexual." 50:20 So, I was judging and saying, 50:24 "Okay, well, you are committing a worst sin." 50:26 Yeah. 50:28 So for me, 50:29 I'm doing just something normal. 50:31 So when I grew up, being at, 50:35 I was 19 years old, 50:36 I got my first phone with internet. 50:41 So it was difficult for me to get that pornography before. 50:44 But at the moment, I have plenty of... 50:48 Options. Options, right? 50:50 Had plenty options to get all that I'd really wanted 50:54 every day, every day. 50:55 So at that moment, 50:58 I kept thinking that it was right 51:01 for someone young like me. 51:03 But, until I left the church 51:08 and I return and then starting 51:13 with a group of people 51:16 or young people that they wanted 51:18 to have a real relationship with God, 51:21 I realized that something was not right 51:24 about doing those things. 51:27 So, I think it's very important 51:30 that our churches talk about the sin, how we see it. 51:34 Sin is sin. 51:35 Yes. 51:36 And you know, 51:38 there is a risk of our salvations 51:40 when we keep saying, okay, we are, 51:43 we are going to keep sinning until God comes. 51:47 And that's something that I learned the rest, 51:52 the most part of my life. 51:54 So when I understood that really God wants us 51:58 to save us from our sins, not in our sins. 52:03 Yes, yes. 52:04 I realized that really, 52:07 there was a way out to it. 52:10 And so God started to work on me. 52:13 But it is really important to get that in mind. 52:17 And if you are leader of a church, 52:21 it is very, very important that we need to stop 52:26 to classify the sin. 52:28 Sin is sin. 52:29 Even if you are just a liar, it's the same. 52:34 So that's how we cannot see each other 52:38 over our shoulder. 52:39 You know, I am better than you. 52:41 And, so that happened to me. 52:46 There is a... 52:48 You know, we tend to have a hierarchy of sin. 52:50 Yeah. 52:52 So this isn't so bad, this is really bad. 52:55 Well, sin is sin, just like you said. 52:58 There's no hierarchy of sin really, sin is sin, 53:01 and we have to stop the classification of it 53:05 and understand that God is able to deliver us 53:10 wherever we are, 53:11 whatever sin we're being held in, 53:15 we can be set free from. 53:17 So I have some signs and symptoms of porn addiction 53:21 that I want to share from this article, 53:23 It says, you basically you know you're addicted 53:26 if you're using porn in greater amounts, 53:29 or over longer periods of time than intended. 53:32 Well, shouldn't be used at all. 53:34 This is not from a Christian perspective. 53:37 Right. 53:38 Trying to stop using porn but you're not able to, 53:41 having difficulty controlling porn use, 53:45 using it in situations that impose physical dangers, 53:49 and continuing to use porn despite negative effects 53:52 on work and relationships. 53:55 And porn can be so detrimental to a marriage. 54:00 There's so many people who are watching porn 54:04 and then the relationships are really messed up 54:09 because the expectations on the partner 54:13 are just distorted based on the porn. 54:16 Especially when it comes to, 54:18 like, why wouldn't say just the men 54:20 'cause I know sometimes women struggle with it as well, 54:22 but when it tends to be with the men on top of, 54:25 you know, watching pornography, 54:27 and also playing video games, 54:28 they've already built a habit of being in control. 54:31 So when you're watching all this porn, 54:33 there's a sense where you're just thinking, 54:34 you know what, like, as Harrison had mentioned, 54:36 you have all these options. 54:38 So now you're picking, 54:39 okay, I want to look at this type of, 54:41 you know, activity. 54:42 I want to see with this amount of people, 54:43 I want to see this sort of race, 54:45 whatever, that person, 54:46 they have all these options available to them. 54:47 And so they're already built in their minds 54:50 that whatever they want, 54:51 whenever they want it, 54:52 forever how long they're in control. 54:55 So now when they bring that same habit into marriage, 54:57 thinking that you know what, 54:59 my spouse is going to do whatever I want, 55:00 at this time, whatever I say, 55:03 they're failing to see that that's not what God designed. 55:05 And on top of like the video games, 55:07 like there's a level of control that they think is okay, 55:11 and failing to realize that God desires 55:13 for them to be selfless, 55:15 that when you're acting in pornography, 55:17 especially when you're married now, 55:19 there's that level of just gratification, 55:21 self gratification and failing to realize 55:23 that when it's both of you, 55:25 there's communication that's necessary, 55:27 a level of exploring that has to take place, 55:29 but that doesn't quite happen when porn is in the picture. 55:32 And even for myself, 55:33 'cause I was under the impression 55:34 that you know what? 55:36 You know, I'll have a "godly marriage," 55:37 but I'll also bring pornography into it, 55:40 and just thinking that the porn would help me in my marriage, 55:43 because I, you know, I wasn't taught 55:45 that porn was bad within church. 55:46 So over time, what I was being taught, 55:48 I never went to an Adventist school, 55:50 but just through like my time with friends 55:51 within the public school, 55:53 just thinking that okay with all the pornography, 55:55 it'll help me gain more experience, 55:57 helping me to be more equipped within marriage 56:00 And that tends to happen a lot within marriage. 56:02 I'm just thinking that we could get new ideas, 56:04 rather than communicating with your partner 56:07 and learning them and exploring, 56:08 you know about, you know, 56:10 learning what this person is about. 56:11 But when porn is in the picture, 56:13 it causes you to really isolate yourself 56:15 and to do things on your own time. 56:16 Right. 56:18 Those are such great points. 56:21 We are going to come back 56:23 with the second hour in just a moment 56:25 and talk about how God delivered you 56:28 because our people need to hear how God has delivered 56:33 and what tools you can use to be set free. 56:37 If you have questions or comments, 56:40 please email us or call us. 56:43 You can call us at 618-627-4651 56:48 or email us at live@3abn.tv. 56:52 We won't read your names, 56:54 but feel free to share what's on your heart. 56:57 If you have comments about this program, 57:00 please share it. 57:01 Don't go away. We'll be right back. |
Revised 2020-03-16