I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome
to 3ABN Today Live.
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Live, oh my goodness.
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So many things
can happen with live
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but that's one of the things
that's so interesting and fun
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about being on a live program.
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I must tell you tonight
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that this program is featuring
a very sensitive topic.
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It's not for young children.
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So if you have
any young children,
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just make sure they go to bed
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because this really is a topic
for young adults and adults.
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We're going to
be talking tonight
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about
pornography in the churches.
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And I'm so thankful
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that we have our
guests with us tonight
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because they have been dealing
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with sharing their
journeys with this issue
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and their victory through Jesus.
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And so we have Coming
Out Ministries with us.
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We have Mike Carducci
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that is the co-founder
of Coming Out Ministries.
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Yay!
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And we have Khadija, no, Kezia.
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Kezia.
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Okay, everybody
messes up your name, right?
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It's totally fine. It happens.
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I'm sorry, it's
Kezia Chisholm. Yes.
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And we're so happy to
have you and Harrison Umaņa.
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And both of you are speakers
for Coming Out Ministries.
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One of the things
that I'm thrilled about
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with Coming Out Ministries is
that when they go into an area
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and talk to the people
about these different topics
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that are very delicate.
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They're going
in with an attitude
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of love and grace
and not condemnation.
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This is one of my,
I have to tell you,
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you're not supposed to
have favorite ministries maybe,
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but this is one of
my favorite ministries
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because so many people
are enslaved to sexual sin.
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And nobody's talking about it
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or not many are talking about it
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because it's such a
private issue, it's a thing
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that so many people
are shamed to share.
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But we here at 3ABN
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have to
counteract the counterfeit.
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We have to expose
what Satan is doing.
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The grasp that he has on
our people around the world,
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this grasp has to be
broken and so how is that done?
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We're going talk
about victory tonight,
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we're going to
talk about the tools
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to be set free and so,
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I just want to
say thank you again
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for being here.
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Let's talk to you
about who you are, what...
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First of all, tell us
about Coming Out Ministries,
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what you're doing?
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Yeah, Coming Out
Ministry started 10 years ago.
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Ten years ago, this year.
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And it was by five individuals
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that had their own
independent ministries
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talking about God's ability
to redeem and restore people
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that had LGBT attraction.
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And as we
started working together,
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we recognized that if
one testimony was good
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then five had to be even better.
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And so Coming Out
Ministries was formed
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and people were very skeptical
about a title that said,
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"Coming Out Ministries"
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and people were like,
is this gay affirming,
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you know what is it and
then people thought that,
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well, if they're
coming out of homosexuality,
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they must be haters
of people that are LGBT,
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and we've had
wonderful opportunities
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that once we
actually get into a place
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which was somewhat difficult.
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Still is even today
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because of
people's preconceived ideas.
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But then, all of a sudden
their hearts start to warm up
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and they realize
that, oh, you're not haters
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but you're not, you know,
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people that are saying
that it's okay to be gay either
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and it's a very delicate balance
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to not only bring in
the truth of Jesus Christ
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to redeem and to restore,
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but also to do
it in a loving way
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because the two opinions
that we had in the church
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when I came back, at
40 years old was that,
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is that God hated gays
and that they couldn't change
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or that God loved gays,
but they still couldn't change.
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And so to tell
somebody that they can change
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through Jesus Christ is
now considered hate speech.
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So Coming Out Ministries
is here to show that love
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and truth combined
is the true essence,
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the pure essence of the gospel.
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Oh, that's beautiful.
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And that is what is, it's like,
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it's such a truism
that we have to know
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that there's victory
and we cannot be condemning.
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Everybody, we're all
sinners in need of a savior.
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And Satan knows
where our weak points are
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and that's what
he capitalizes on.
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And what you guys do
is you go in and you say,
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"Look, I was in bondage to this,
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but Jesus set me free."
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And one of the things
that's going on now is that,
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you know, this whole
idea of being born this way
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or I can't get past this
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or there's
nothing wrong with it,
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but we know that
people are enslaved to it.
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Tell us a little
bit about your journey
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and then we want to
hear from Kezia and Harrison.
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Great.
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So for me all of
this really started
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with my father.
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I thought that, you know,
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that as I came
into this relationship
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with Jesus Christ,
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the only two
questions that I had for Him is,
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I want to know why I was a
girl trapped in a boy's body.
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And that was my very
first conscious thought
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at 40 years old.
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And then my second question was,
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I wanted to know
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why I was same sex
attracted at puberty.
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It wasn't
something that I created,
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it wasn't something
that I was drawn to,
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it's just
something that kind of like,
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was like this natural feeling.
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So again I thought
that I was born transgender,
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of course, I wasn't born gay
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because those attractions
didn't come until puberty.
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But as I started to walk
in this relationship with God
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and because our church had
no resources on this topic,
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God had to start to show me
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that through Bible
Study, through science
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and being able to
put all of this together
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and, you know,
studying the Word of God
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and also listening
to different sermons,
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I started to put together
like these pieces of the puzzle.
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And the Lord started to show
me that defensive detachment
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which is a clinical term,
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it happened even
before I was conscious.
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Little boys don't
know that they're boys
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and girls don't
know that they're girls
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until about the
ages of one to three.
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So what had happened
is, my consciousness,
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I don't even remember
anything before four years old.
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But by the time I
was four years old,
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I knew that there
was something different.
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I felt that I was a
girl trapped in a boy's body.
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I only like doing the
things that girls like to do,
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playing with dolls,
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dressing up in
my mother's clothing
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and I had three sisters.
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But not until I heard the term
defensive detachment in my 40s,
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did I start to realize
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that this is
something that had happened
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not before I was born
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but definitely
between those formative years
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between one and three.
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Every little boy
starts to realize
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that they're not like their mom
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between one and three
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so there's this transition
that takes place to the father.
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You know, the dad takes a kid
and throws him up in the air.
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And the mother
screams and the dad laughs
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and the kid starts to realize
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that the dads are
dangerous but safe, right?
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And so during that time,
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my dad was in the
Navy and he'd be gone,
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sometimes six months at a time.
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So for me that was
almost half my life.
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So then when my dad was home,
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he was abusive
and loud and angry.
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And so, as I was
making this transition
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from my mother to my father,
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he either wasn't
available for me,
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or he was frightening, and
I rejected his masculinity.
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So in my defense,
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I detached from
him as my role model.
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And so the only example
left for me was my mother.
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So I wanted to walk like her,
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talk like her, you
know, dress like her
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and all of that had
happened before time
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when I was even conscious.
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So now I look back and I
go, I wasn't born transgender.
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I was born normal and,
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and all of these things
that were happening after,
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you know, the birth process
were environmental issues.
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However, I
don't neglect the idea
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that some things were hereditary
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and some things are cultivated.
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Ellen White is
very clear about that.
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So if somebody says
that they're born gay
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or that they're
born transgender,
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we don't argue with them.
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Instead, we give them
that, say, guess what?
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We were all shaped in iniquity.
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We were all born indecent.
00:09:09.78\00:09:11.15
So, you know, take your du jour,
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whichever, you know,
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sin temptation
you were born with,
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we all have that.
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But Jesus says that
we must be born again.
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Yes, yes.
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Thank you for that.
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Kezia, what about you? Yes.
00:09:22.26\00:09:23.59
So similar to Mike in regards
00:09:23.63\00:09:25.49
to just coming
from an environment
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where things are really shaky.
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My parents are two different
skin colors in a sense.
00:09:29.16\00:09:33.10
My mom is Filipino
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and then my father is Guyanese.
00:09:34.54\00:09:36.24
So already from a young age,
00:09:36.27\00:09:37.61
I knew that I
was totally different
00:09:37.64\00:09:39.41
from my mom, who was the woman,
00:09:39.44\00:09:40.98
the girl that I'm, you
know, trying to look up to.
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And so I was already
struggling with self identity
00:09:43.35\00:09:46.21
when it came to
my skin complexion,
00:09:46.25\00:09:47.98
when it came to
the texture of my hair.
00:09:48.02\00:09:49.72
You know, my hair is curly.
00:09:49.75\00:09:51.09
My mom's hair is straight.
00:09:51.12\00:09:52.59
And so already from a young age,
00:09:52.62\00:09:54.16
I was already asking God,
00:09:54.19\00:09:55.52
you know, make me
yellow, because I just thought,
00:09:55.56\00:09:57.29
you know, maybe
over time I could,
00:09:57.33\00:09:59.49
you know, my skin could become
like my mother's skin tone.
00:09:59.53\00:10:02.43
So for the most part at home,
00:10:02.46\00:10:03.83
God wasn't necessarily
the center of our household.
00:10:03.87\00:10:06.94
Sometimes we would go
to church if we had time.
00:10:06.97\00:10:09.70
But it really wasn't
until about the age of five.
00:10:09.74\00:10:12.14
This was around kindergarten,
00:10:12.17\00:10:13.71
where I ended up having
my first sexual encounter
00:10:13.74\00:10:15.88
with a girl at school.
00:10:15.91\00:10:17.25
And so I wasn't taught that,
00:10:17.28\00:10:19.51
you know, if
someone does touch you
00:10:19.55\00:10:20.88
that you should say something,
00:10:20.92\00:10:22.25
and I thought
that this was okay,
00:10:22.28\00:10:23.79
that it wasn't
really a big issue.
00:10:23.82\00:10:25.75
And for this to happen,
00:10:25.79\00:10:27.12
you know, during school hours,
this was at public school,
00:10:27.16\00:10:29.52
I just realized that,
00:10:29.56\00:10:31.53
you know, I thought
everyone went through this.
00:10:31.56\00:10:34.43
But failing to realize
that this was something
00:10:34.46\00:10:36.53
that really started
the journey to something
00:10:36.56\00:10:38.33
that it eventually
became uncontrollable.
00:10:38.37\00:10:41.47
So eventually,
by the age of nine,
00:10:41.50\00:10:43.87
I end up having
another encounter,
00:10:43.91\00:10:46.31
this time with girls as well,
00:10:46.34\00:10:48.24
and this time
in a group setting.
00:10:48.28\00:10:49.84
And so I just thought that okay,
00:10:49.88\00:10:51.68
when it comes to sex now
that it's either with girls
00:10:51.71\00:10:55.25
or in a group setting,
00:10:55.28\00:10:57.12
so I'm already having
this before the age of 10.
00:10:57.15\00:10:59.92
And so by the time,
this is by age of 12,
00:10:59.95\00:11:03.79
my parents end up divorcing
00:11:03.83\00:11:05.59
so that really just compounded
00:11:05.63\00:11:07.60
with the things I
was already dealing with,
00:11:07.63\00:11:09.83
where with my dad leaving being
00:11:09.86\00:11:11.93
that he's black,
he's from Guyana.
00:11:11.97\00:11:13.80
I was just under
the impression that,
00:11:13.84\00:11:15.27
you know, what do I do now,
00:11:15.30\00:11:16.64
you know, what's
the meaning of life,
00:11:16.67\00:11:18.01
where I had to understand
00:11:18.04\00:11:19.37
that my mom had to
figure out her new life
00:11:19.41\00:11:21.08
as a single mother.
00:11:21.11\00:11:22.51
And at that time, it
was really hard for us
00:11:22.54\00:11:24.78
and seeing that she
was now transitioning
00:11:24.81\00:11:27.25
and trying to
understand her new role
00:11:27.28\00:11:29.32
and having to work longer hours.
00:11:29.35\00:11:31.82
Me, just, you know, at home,
00:11:31.85\00:11:33.19
I'll go to school,
but at the same time,
00:11:33.22\00:11:35.86
in trying to
deal with the things
00:11:35.89\00:11:37.23
I was quietly going through,
00:11:37.26\00:11:38.66
and my turn to
anything just really numb
00:11:38.69\00:11:41.66
what I was feeling.
00:11:41.70\00:11:43.03
So that was just
being very promiscuous,
00:11:43.06\00:11:45.23
either with girls or
guys becoming depressive,
00:11:45.27\00:11:50.71
filled with lot of depression.
00:11:50.74\00:11:52.07
I mean, a lot of
suicidal thoughts at that time,
00:11:52.11\00:11:54.58
and then also a lot of anger,
00:11:54.61\00:11:57.18
especially when
it came to my parents
00:11:57.21\00:11:58.88
where I just
wanted both of them dead
00:11:58.91\00:12:00.92
because of the
level of frustration
00:12:00.95\00:12:03.02
that I had built up
00:12:03.05\00:12:04.39
and trying to figure
out how do I now do life,
00:12:04.42\00:12:07.02
because at that time
in Brooklyn, New York,
00:12:07.06\00:12:08.82
it wasn't really a lot of
interracial relationships.
00:12:08.86\00:12:12.56
It wasn't really
popular at that time.
00:12:12.59\00:12:14.60
And so for me, I'm just
trying to figure out who am I,
00:12:14.63\00:12:17.60
because I just thought
that I could only be one
00:12:17.63\00:12:19.93
and not accept how
God had created me.
00:12:19.97\00:12:23.00
And so even
with the promiscuity,
00:12:23.04\00:12:25.91
there was also
the drinking involved,
00:12:25.94\00:12:28.04
smoking marijuana,
00:12:28.08\00:12:29.98
also just the
pornography and masturbation.
00:12:30.01\00:12:31.95
So there were just a
lot of things I was turning
00:12:31.98\00:12:34.45
to just trying to find
some sort of direction.
00:12:34.48\00:12:37.29
Even when it came to horoscopes,
00:12:37.32\00:12:38.72
I was really big on
that, just thinking that
00:12:38.75\00:12:40.52
I'll get some sort
of guidance from there.
00:12:40.56\00:12:43.56
But it really wasn't
until some years later
00:12:43.59\00:12:46.13
where God really
just kind of stepped in.
00:12:46.16\00:12:49.43
Even in the midst
of what I was doing,
00:12:49.46\00:12:51.83
that He really
spoke to me in a dream
00:12:51.87\00:12:53.87
where He showed me
that He still loves me.
00:12:53.90\00:12:57.37
So that was a
turning point for me.
00:12:57.41\00:13:00.01
That's beautiful.
00:13:00.04\00:13:01.38
You know, it's interesting to me
00:13:01.41\00:13:03.41
how the enemy, you
know, will take a situation
00:13:03.45\00:13:07.35
that has brokenness
00:13:07.38\00:13:10.19
and really zero in on that,
00:13:10.22\00:13:13.36
and then just begin to
try to break it even further
00:13:13.39\00:13:18.49
and take you down
in a downward spiral,
00:13:18.53\00:13:20.83
you know, with
drugs, with promiscuity,
00:13:20.86\00:13:23.73
with
pornography, with horoscopes,
00:13:23.77\00:13:27.04
just like it's
this downward spiral.
00:13:27.07\00:13:30.51
Because we always say,
00:13:30.54\00:13:32.14
and I've said it
on Dare to Dream,
00:13:32.17\00:13:34.08
and I've said it on
3ABN on the parent network,
00:13:34.11\00:13:37.21
God has a plan for us
00:13:37.25\00:13:38.61
and the enemy has a plan for us.
00:13:38.65\00:13:40.52
God's plan.
00:13:40.55\00:13:41.88
He knows the thoughts
00:13:41.92\00:13:43.25
that He thinks toward us
lots of peace and not of evil,
00:13:43.28\00:13:45.95
to give us a future and
a hope or an expected end.
00:13:45.99\00:13:49.72
But the enemy, he wants to kill,
00:13:49.76\00:13:52.59
steal and destroy,
and that's what he does.
00:13:52.63\00:13:54.80
So he is going to take you down.
00:13:54.83\00:13:56.63
God's going to bring you up,
00:13:56.67\00:13:58.33
and it's just
like, as I listened,
00:13:58.37\00:14:01.50
we can just see how
the enemy has zeroed in
00:14:01.54\00:14:05.14
on the places of brokenness
and tried to just destroy,
00:14:05.17\00:14:09.01
but God had another plan, right?
00:14:09.04\00:14:10.91
What you're
going to say, Michael?
00:14:10.95\00:14:12.28
Well, what I
found really amazing
00:14:12.31\00:14:14.02
in my conversations
with Kezia is that,
00:14:14.05\00:14:16.92
you know, this is
an issue of identity
00:14:16.95\00:14:19.55
and from my perspective,
00:14:19.59\00:14:20.92
because I didn't
come from what Kezia did,
00:14:20.96\00:14:23.09
I thought that the only
issues with identity was,
00:14:23.12\00:14:25.76
you know, your attraction,
you know, LGBT issues,
00:14:25.79\00:14:28.43
but now I realized that
just as strong as my identity
00:14:28.46\00:14:31.13
was being challenged,
00:14:31.17\00:14:32.50
Kezia's identity
was being challenged
00:14:32.53\00:14:34.34
but through the races,
like am I yellow or am I black?
00:14:34.37\00:14:38.21
And I wish
you'd share that story
00:14:38.24\00:14:39.71
about your mom and dad
taking you to junior high
00:14:39.74\00:14:43.24
'cause that really says it all.
00:14:43.28\00:14:44.68
Yeah.
00:14:44.71\00:14:46.05
Um, so this was a time
00:14:46.08\00:14:47.42
where first day of middle school
00:14:47.45\00:14:48.78
and the school I was going to
00:14:48.82\00:14:50.15
was predominantly a
Caribbean black school.
00:14:50.19\00:14:51.85
And we would have like,
00:14:51.89\00:14:53.22
I remember just
like a few Asians like,
00:14:53.25\00:14:54.59
really small amount.
00:14:54.62\00:14:55.96
And so this is the first
day I remember just holding on
00:14:55.99\00:14:57.86
to my mom's hand
and then my dad's hand.
00:14:57.89\00:15:00.76
So you know,
both are on each side,
00:15:00.80\00:15:03.10
one on each side.
00:15:03.13\00:15:04.47
And I remember
we're getting closer
00:15:04.50\00:15:05.83
to the school yard.
00:15:05.87\00:15:07.20
And because I could
notice from a distance
00:15:07.24\00:15:08.74
that majority of
the students were black,
00:15:08.77\00:15:10.87
I just got nervous.
00:15:10.91\00:15:12.24
And I was like, mom,
you can let go of my hand
00:15:12.27\00:15:13.78
because you're
yellow and I'm black.
00:15:13.81\00:15:15.78
So I was just always
thinking, I cannot be both.
00:15:15.81\00:15:18.71
It's impossible
because of how I look.
00:15:18.75\00:15:21.15
So, I mean, that was
really how my mindset in regards
00:15:21.18\00:15:24.82
to who I was just realizing
that I couldn't be both.
00:15:24.85\00:15:29.22
But over time, you
know, through God's grace,
00:15:29.26\00:15:31.39
recognizing that, you know,
00:15:31.43\00:15:32.76
that's who He
chose as my parents,
00:15:32.79\00:15:34.56
and it's a beautiful thing
over the times I've learned.
00:15:34.60\00:15:37.20
Look at her, exactly.
00:15:37.23\00:15:38.80
Definitely
learning that over time,
00:15:38.83\00:15:40.84
but you know, my earlier years,
00:15:40.87\00:15:43.47
it was really a struggle for me
00:15:43.51\00:15:44.84
because I always just
thought I could only be one,
00:15:44.87\00:15:46.34
can't be both.
00:15:46.37\00:15:47.88
Again, Satan just wants to,
00:15:47.91\00:15:50.78
you know, instead of accepting
00:15:50.81\00:15:53.21
who you are and
loving it and embracing it,
00:15:53.25\00:15:55.72
because it's just like
a combination of cultures.
00:15:55.75\00:15:59.95
Instead, you know,
00:15:59.99\00:16:01.42
Satan just wants to
tear you apart emotionally.
00:16:01.46\00:16:05.79
And that's what he does.
00:16:05.83\00:16:07.16
There's so many people
00:16:07.20\00:16:08.53
who are struggling
with those same issues.
00:16:08.56\00:16:11.40
Harrison, what about you?
00:16:11.43\00:16:13.17
Well, you can see that
is an issue of identity.
00:16:13.20\00:16:17.57
That happened to me
also but in a spiritual area
00:16:17.61\00:16:22.98
because I was born
in an Adventist home.
00:16:23.01\00:16:26.51
But my parents
00:16:26.55\00:16:28.62
they were not completely...
00:16:28.65\00:16:31.59
they were not completely
00:16:34.19\00:16:35.52
having that
relationship with God.
00:16:35.56\00:16:38.69
So it was confusing
to me to be on the church
00:16:38.73\00:16:44.07
and you know,
looking perfect or looking,
00:16:44.10\00:16:49.14
okay, everything is
fine in that family.
00:16:49.17\00:16:52.07
But then when we
get back to home,
00:16:52.11\00:16:55.08
it was difficult situation.
00:16:55.11\00:16:57.71
You know, my
parents arguing constantly
00:16:57.75\00:17:02.18
and also fighting,
00:17:02.22\00:17:04.29
there was even
physical violence.
00:17:04.32\00:17:08.86
And so, I was confused
00:17:08.89\00:17:11.33
as to why we are
like this in the church
00:17:11.36\00:17:16.56
and then in our home
is completely different.
00:17:16.60\00:17:20.00
So I did not develop
00:17:20.04\00:17:23.04
that deeper
relationship with God.
00:17:23.07\00:17:28.14
As my parents,
00:17:28.18\00:17:29.51
they did not taught me about it.
00:17:29.54\00:17:32.11
So I had some void
00:17:32.15\00:17:37.72
in my heart.
00:17:37.75\00:17:39.22
Spiritually, I just thought
00:17:39.25\00:17:40.99
that I needed to
go to the church,
00:17:41.02\00:17:43.83
just to sit there, be quiet,
00:17:43.86\00:17:47.70
pay attention to the preacher,
00:17:47.73\00:17:50.77
be part of the Adventurer's Club
00:17:50.80\00:17:52.57
or Pathfinders in Sierra.
00:17:52.60\00:17:55.97
That was all the
things that I thought
00:17:56.00\00:17:59.01
or that I thought
that I needed to do
00:17:59.04\00:18:04.08
in order to have
the favor from God.
00:18:04.11\00:18:08.35
So it was very difficult being.
00:18:08.38\00:18:11.92
So when I was growing up,
00:18:11.95\00:18:14.49
I remember going to the school
00:18:14.52\00:18:17.69
in a moment of...
00:18:17.73\00:18:21.46
Well, when all the guys are,
00:18:21.50\00:18:24.27
you know, sharing
together after the lessons,
00:18:24.30\00:18:28.57
after the classes,
00:18:28.60\00:18:31.07
we were talking
about one of them
00:18:31.11\00:18:33.14
was talking about pornography
00:18:33.17\00:18:36.24
and also about masturbation.
00:18:36.28\00:18:38.68
At the time, I didn't know
what he was referring about,
00:18:38.71\00:18:42.22
but he explained it.
00:18:42.25\00:18:45.22
And I was just curious,
00:18:45.25\00:18:47.22
what was that and
so I fell into it,
00:18:47.26\00:18:51.89
when I was like
11 or 12 years old.
00:18:51.93\00:18:56.90
The rest of my
life, it was the same.
00:18:56.93\00:19:00.04
I thought that I was
not doing something bad.
00:19:00.07\00:19:03.84
I thought that it
was normal for men.
00:19:03.87\00:19:08.34
So okay, in teenage year,
00:19:08.38\00:19:10.55
this is something
that needs to come
00:19:10.58\00:19:12.65
and that's okay.
00:19:12.68\00:19:14.65
So I even was that kind of guy
00:19:14.68\00:19:17.52
that make fun of those
00:19:17.55\00:19:19.69
that were not practicing that.
00:19:19.72\00:19:24.16
And so, right now
remember and history,
00:19:24.19\00:19:28.56
well, something that
happened to me when a classmate,
00:19:28.60\00:19:32.20
I remember making fun of him
00:19:32.23\00:19:34.47
because he was
not practicing that.
00:19:34.50\00:19:36.91
And so, I said to him,
00:19:36.94\00:19:39.77
"Well, if you were
not practicing that
00:19:39.81\00:19:44.11
is because you are not a man.
00:19:44.15\00:19:46.38
You are a gay,
you're homosexual."
00:19:46.41\00:19:48.78
And so he said to me,
"No, that's not true."
00:19:48.82\00:19:54.16
Was he a Christian?
00:19:54.19\00:19:55.59
Yes, he was Christian.
00:19:55.62\00:19:58.43
So right now,
00:19:58.46\00:20:00.26
I understand that
he received the advice,
00:20:00.30\00:20:06.77
the concept from his
parents in the right way
00:20:06.80\00:20:09.60
and at the right time for him.
00:20:09.64\00:20:12.31
At the moment I thought he
was just crazy and scruffy.
00:20:12.34\00:20:16.24
How can he say that to me?
00:20:16.28\00:20:17.78
Yeah.
00:20:17.81\00:20:19.15
Yeah, sorry.
00:20:19.18\00:20:20.52
So, Yvonne, this is why,
00:20:20.55\00:20:22.28
you know when you
get that disclaimer
00:20:22.32\00:20:24.45
at the beginning of the show,
00:20:24.49\00:20:26.05
this program really is
appropriate for children
00:20:26.09\00:20:28.42
but the parents should
watch it first, of course.
00:20:28.46\00:20:30.29
Yes.
00:20:30.33\00:20:31.66
But some of the statistics
that I have, you know,
00:20:31.69\00:20:33.36
Harrison was exposed
at 11 years old to porn,
00:20:33.40\00:20:35.96
Kezia even before school.
00:20:36.00\00:20:38.17
Did you know
that the average age
00:20:38.20\00:20:39.53
of first internet
exposure to pornography?
00:20:39.57\00:20:41.74
Eleven years old.
00:20:41.77\00:20:43.27
Fifteen to seventeen year olds
00:20:43.30\00:20:45.17
having multiple
hardcore exposures
00:20:45.21\00:20:47.38
and we're not
talking about just looking
00:20:47.41\00:20:48.94
at naked images
we're talking about,
00:20:48.98\00:20:50.78
you know, people
actually engaging
00:20:50.81\00:20:52.58
in sexual acts.
00:20:52.61\00:20:53.95
80% and 90% of 8-16 year olds
00:20:53.98\00:20:58.25
are viewing pornography
online and mostly while doing...
00:20:58.29\00:21:00.29
Eight?
00:21:00.32\00:21:01.66
Eight to sixteen year olds
mostly while doing homework.
00:21:01.69\00:21:04.13
There was a young man,
00:21:04.16\00:21:05.49
he was seminary
student shared with us
00:21:05.53\00:21:07.66
that at seven years
old, he was addicted to porn.
00:21:07.70\00:21:10.07
His mother and
father kept the computer
00:21:10.10\00:21:11.77
in the family room.
00:21:11.80\00:21:13.13
And he went to an academy,
went to an Adventist school.
00:21:13.17\00:21:17.44
And his best
friend brought a piece
00:21:17.47\00:21:19.21
of printed pornography
from his computer at home,
00:21:19.24\00:21:22.71
and that was when this child
became addicted to pornography
00:21:22.74\00:21:25.11
at seven years old.
00:21:25.15\00:21:26.65
And we're talking about,
00:21:26.68\00:21:28.02
that was like, this
person is like 28 now.
00:21:28.05\00:21:31.19
So we're talking
a good 20 years ago.
00:21:31.22\00:21:33.56
And see, you know, it's funny,
00:21:33.59\00:21:34.92
because in my
head, I'm thinking,
00:21:34.96\00:21:37.43
"Well, you know, teens,
00:21:37.46\00:21:40.30
teens start that I had,
00:21:40.33\00:21:43.03
I had no idea it was
seven and eight year olds.
00:21:43.06\00:21:45.13
Not anymore! Yes.
00:21:45.17\00:21:46.57
Now that we've got
these smart devices
00:21:46.60\00:21:48.44
that have
access to the internet,
00:21:48.47\00:21:49.87
I tell people
00:21:49.90\00:21:51.24
if you do not have
accountability software
00:21:51.27\00:21:53.48
on your children's devices,
00:21:53.51\00:21:55.04
it's like giving a
razor blade to an infant.
00:21:55.08\00:21:57.65
That's just how
powerless your children are
00:21:57.68\00:21:59.38
against this evil.
00:21:59.41\00:22:01.05
Because there, I
had some statistics too
00:22:01.08\00:22:04.19
on how prevalent it
is just on the internet
00:22:04.22\00:22:08.66
like people, kids are watching.
00:22:08.69\00:22:10.99
I know kids are tuning in,
00:22:11.03\00:22:13.19
but it is just, I mean,
00:22:13.23\00:22:15.36
and I'll come
across in a minute.
00:22:15.40\00:22:16.93
In fact, we have a
musical selection for you
00:22:16.97\00:22:20.40
from Kendol Bacchus and
he's going to be playing
00:22:20.44\00:22:23.91
"Shepherd of My Heart."
00:22:23.94\00:22:25.47
Thank you so much, Kendol.
00:28:03.55\00:28:05.01
That was so soothing.
00:28:05.05\00:28:07.22
Was that just not beautiful?
00:28:07.25\00:28:08.58
Thank you so much
"Shepherd of My Heart."
00:28:08.62\00:28:11.15
So tonight if
you're just tuning in,
00:28:11.19\00:28:13.92
we're so glad that you did
00:28:13.96\00:28:15.66
because this is a
very serious topic
00:28:15.69\00:28:18.83
that is affecting so
many people in our churches
00:28:18.86\00:28:22.96
and nobody wants
to talk about it.
00:28:23.00\00:28:25.13
So we're here with
Coming Out Ministries,
00:28:25.17\00:28:27.74
Mike Carducci,
and Kezia Chisholm,
00:28:27.77\00:28:30.91
and Harrison Umaņa.
00:28:30.94\00:28:32.74
And so we're here talking
00:28:32.77\00:28:34.94
about
pornography in the churches.
00:28:34.98\00:28:37.75
Mike, tell us some more
about how pervasive this is?
00:28:37.78\00:28:42.48
Sure.
00:28:42.52\00:28:43.85
It's an issue that is rarely
00:28:43.89\00:28:45.82
if ever talked
about in the church,
00:28:45.85\00:28:47.26
and Coming Out Ministries
00:28:47.29\00:28:48.96
wants to address it in a way
that's biblical and redemptive,
00:28:48.99\00:28:52.23
but at the same time,
00:28:52.26\00:28:53.60
not instructing
children on how to sin
00:28:53.63\00:28:56.10
but rather how to
find their way out of sin.
00:28:56.13\00:28:58.03
So many people don't
realize the devastation
00:28:58.07\00:29:00.64
of what the porn
industry is doing to our church,
00:29:00.67\00:29:03.34
let alone the world.
00:29:03.37\00:29:04.71
The pornography industry
is larger than the revenues
00:29:04.74\00:29:07.84
of the top
technology companies combined.
00:29:07.88\00:29:10.41
Microsoft, Google,
Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple,
00:29:10.45\00:29:13.52
Netflix and EarthLink combined,
00:29:13.55\00:29:15.42
pornography still makes
more than these companies.
00:29:15.45\00:29:18.89
And then according
to Christian statistics,
00:29:18.92\00:29:21.59
Family Safe Media reports
that 53% of Christian men,
00:29:21.62\00:29:26.19
promise keepers visit
porn sites every week.
00:29:26.23\00:29:28.86
And it's not something
that's limited just to men.
00:29:28.90\00:29:31.20
In a poll of 1000 respondents,
00:29:31.23\00:29:32.73
50% of Christian men
and 20% of Christian women
00:29:32.77\00:29:36.10
were found to be
addicted to pornography.
00:29:36.14\00:29:39.41
What I find the most shocking
statistic that I have is
00:29:39.44\00:29:42.88
that according
to Covenanteyes.com,
00:29:42.91\00:29:45.08
only 3% of boys and 17% of girls
00:29:45.11\00:29:49.08
have never seen
internet pornography.
00:29:49.12\00:29:51.29
Only 3%?
00:29:51.32\00:29:52.65
Only 3% and 17% of girls.
00:29:52.69\00:29:54.29
It says 97% of
boys have seen it.
00:29:54.32\00:29:57.33
And 83% of girls.
00:29:57.36\00:29:59.29
This is something that is
00:29:59.33\00:30:00.66
just taking our
children by storm.
00:30:00.70\00:30:03.73
It became so evident to me
00:30:03.77\00:30:05.17
when I met Kezia
just three years ago,
00:30:05.20\00:30:07.24
that when we were
speaking together,
00:30:07.27\00:30:09.84
and she was talking
about how here she was
00:30:09.87\00:30:12.31
a major speaker on
this mission trip to Cuba,
00:30:12.34\00:30:15.01
and she's talking
about the tabernacle
00:30:15.04\00:30:16.61
and the sanctuary
00:30:16.64\00:30:18.31
and talking about that
application to the gospel,
00:30:18.35\00:30:20.98
a powerful sermon
00:30:21.02\00:30:22.35
and yet still struggling
00:30:22.38\00:30:23.72
with pornography, masturbation,
00:30:23.75\00:30:25.25
and also sexual acting out.
00:30:25.29\00:30:27.49
And then to meet Harrison,
00:30:27.52\00:30:28.86
who's an elder in his church
00:30:28.89\00:30:30.23
also
experiencing this addiction.
00:30:30.26\00:30:31.96
My eyes were open,
00:30:31.99\00:30:33.66
that this is a much more
pervasive issue than something
00:30:33.70\00:30:36.23
that I was the only
one struggling with.
00:30:36.26\00:30:37.63
Yes, yeah.
00:30:37.67\00:30:39.00
And that's, you know,
00:30:39.03\00:30:40.37
I think that's
what's so important
00:30:40.40\00:30:41.74
to acknowledge here
00:30:41.77\00:30:43.41
that people are
struggling with it
00:30:43.44\00:30:45.57
and don't know how
to be set free from it.
00:30:45.61\00:30:48.61
But, Yvonne, we
have a huge, huge message
00:30:48.64\00:30:52.45
from the pen of inspiration.
00:30:52.48\00:30:53.82
Ellen White made it very
clear over 100 years ago,
00:30:53.85\00:30:56.48
exactly what we were
going to be struggling with
00:30:56.52\00:30:58.89
and yet there's no,
nobody's addressing it,
00:30:58.92\00:31:01.29
nobody's talking about it
00:31:01.32\00:31:02.66
other than that I know
of Coming Out Ministries.
00:31:02.69\00:31:04.49
Listen to this.
00:31:04.53\00:31:05.86
This is from
Testimonies on Sexual Behaviors,
00:31:05.89\00:31:07.93
Adultery and Divorce, page 84.
00:31:07.96\00:31:10.17
It says,
"Satan's Repetitious Plot.
00:31:10.20\00:31:12.47
Near the close of
this earth's history
00:31:12.50\00:31:15.00
Satan will work with
all of his powers..."
00:31:15.04\00:31:17.11
Isn't that
interesting? How many?
00:31:17.14\00:31:18.91
All of his powers.
00:31:18.94\00:31:20.34
"In the same manner and
with the same temptations
00:31:20.38\00:31:22.74
wherewith he
tempted ancient Israel
00:31:22.78\00:31:24.91
just before their
entering the land of promise."
00:31:24.95\00:31:27.38
She says, "He will
lay snares for those
00:31:27.42\00:31:29.38
who claim to keep
the commandments of God,
00:31:29.42\00:31:31.55
and who are
almost on the borders
00:31:31.59\00:31:33.96
of the heavenly Canaan.
00:31:33.99\00:31:35.72
He will use his
powers to their utmost
00:31:35.76\00:31:38.36
in order to entrap souls,
00:31:38.39\00:31:40.13
and to take
God's professed people
00:31:40.16\00:31:41.83
upon their weakest points.
00:31:41.86\00:31:43.67
Those who have not brought
00:31:43.70\00:31:45.03
the lower
passions into subjection
00:31:45.07\00:31:46.57
to the higher
powers of their being,
00:31:46.60\00:31:48.54
those who have
allowed their minds
00:31:48.57\00:31:50.04
to flow in a
channel of carnal indulgence
00:31:50.07\00:31:52.34
of the baser passions,
00:31:52.37\00:31:53.78
Satan is determined to destroy
00:31:53.81\00:31:55.68
with his temptations," get this,
00:31:55.71\00:31:58.15
"to pollute their
souls with licentiousness."
00:31:58.18\00:32:01.95
If 3ABN weren't
willing to really invest
00:32:01.98\00:32:04.52
in Coming Out Ministries,
00:32:04.55\00:32:05.89
what, nine years
ago when this started,
00:32:05.92\00:32:07.92
I believe that this
message would not get out.
00:32:07.96\00:32:10.33
And I think that part
00:32:10.36\00:32:11.69
of our Laodicea in the churches,
00:32:11.73\00:32:13.53
the fact that we
have this information,
00:32:13.56\00:32:15.56
we were told that this
00:32:15.60\00:32:16.93
is exactly what
was going to happen.
00:32:16.97\00:32:18.63
And here it is.
00:32:18.67\00:32:20.00
And yet nobody's
talking about it.
00:32:20.04\00:32:21.50
Nobody's really
addressing the issue head on.
00:32:21.54\00:32:24.61
Because people are ashamed.
00:32:24.64\00:32:26.84
You can't just come out and say,
00:32:26.88\00:32:29.34
you know, there's
not a safe environment
00:32:29.38\00:32:33.31
for that kind of
revelation usually.
00:32:33.35\00:32:35.65
So people don't want to say,
00:32:35.68\00:32:37.02
well, I'm entrapped
by same sex attraction
00:32:37.05\00:32:40.46
or I'm entrapped by
pornography or whatever it is,
00:32:40.49\00:32:44.16
because there's an
element of shame attached to it.
00:32:44.19\00:32:48.10
And what we're saying
today is, there is hope for you,
00:32:48.13\00:32:52.23
and then you don't
have to be ashamed.
00:32:52.27\00:32:54.47
We're all sinners.
00:32:54.50\00:32:55.84
We're all sinners.
00:32:55.87\00:32:57.21
My sin is not your sins,
00:32:57.24\00:32:58.97
not the next person's
sin, we're all sinners though.
00:32:59.01\00:33:02.08
And so we're not
here to judge you.
00:33:02.11\00:33:03.95
We're here to offer
you information and tools.
00:33:03.98\00:33:07.58
You might have a question
or comment about this program.
00:33:07.62\00:33:11.39
We are going to be
accepting questions.
00:33:11.42\00:33:14.52
And so you can
email us at live@3abn.tv.
00:33:14.56\00:33:20.40
That's live@3abn.tv.
00:33:20.43\00:33:23.53
Or you can call
in your question at
00:33:23.57\00:33:25.50
618-627-4651.
00:33:25.53\00:33:29.90
That's 618-627-4651.
00:33:29.94\00:33:34.18
You can ask anyone
here on our panel a question
00:33:34.21\00:33:37.65
about whether it's
same sex attraction,
00:33:37.68\00:33:39.71
pornography, any
question that you might have,
00:33:39.75\00:33:43.02
we're not going
to say your name.
00:33:43.05\00:33:44.55
You can remain anonymous,
00:33:44.59\00:33:45.95
but please feel
free to call or email
00:33:45.99\00:33:49.52
with your questions or comments.
00:33:49.56\00:33:51.73
This again is a critical issue.
00:33:51.76\00:33:54.03
So I'd like to read
a couple of scriptures
00:33:54.06\00:33:56.60
because I think that
it's important the Bible,
00:33:56.63\00:33:59.70
you know, they
didn't have pornography
00:33:59.73\00:34:01.44
back in those times.
00:34:01.47\00:34:02.80
But sin is sin,
and I'm sure that,
00:34:02.84\00:34:05.31
you know, David was...
00:34:05.34\00:34:07.08
David had an
issue with Bathsheba.
00:34:07.11\00:34:09.34
It wouldn't
surprise me even the cavemen
00:34:09.38\00:34:11.71
were writing
pornography on the walls.
00:34:11.75\00:34:14.02
That's how
addictive this thing is.
00:34:14.05\00:34:15.68
It is.
00:34:15.72\00:34:17.05
And it's impossible to say that
00:34:17.09\00:34:18.42
if anything can be fortunate
00:34:18.45\00:34:19.79
about the times
that we're living in now,
00:34:19.82\00:34:21.69
the church does
not have the right,
00:34:21.72\00:34:23.83
any longer to stay
silent on this issue.
00:34:23.86\00:34:25.53
That's right.
00:34:25.56\00:34:26.90
It is absolutely destroying
00:34:26.93\00:34:28.26
not only the
people in the church,
00:34:28.30\00:34:29.63
but 62% of Christian pastors
00:34:29.66\00:34:31.77
are struggling with
pornography addiction.
00:34:31.80\00:34:35.67
You told me that
before and I was just floored.
00:34:35.70\00:34:38.94
Sixty two percent
of Christian pastors
00:34:38.97\00:34:43.14
have this issue.
00:34:43.18\00:34:44.51
Our leadership
has, in my opinion,
00:34:44.55\00:34:47.25
they have no other choice than
00:34:47.28\00:34:50.62
to start providing
programs and opportunities
00:34:50.65\00:34:52.32
for our pastors and
leadership to get out.
00:34:52.35\00:34:54.09
Yes, and we will
talk about resources
00:34:54.12\00:34:56.99
and that kind of thing.
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.36
Let me just read two scriptures,
00:34:58.39\00:34:59.73
Psalm 101:3 says,
00:34:59.76\00:35:01.80
"I will set nothing
wicked before my eyes.
00:35:01.83\00:35:05.13
If you don't watch it,
you can't get hooked on it."
00:35:05.17\00:35:08.34
Once you watch it,
00:35:08.37\00:35:10.11
and it's like,
it's almost like crack.
00:35:10.14\00:35:12.84
You know, they say
that one exposure to crack,
00:35:12.87\00:35:15.98
you can be
addicted from one exposure.
00:35:16.01\00:35:18.85
It's like that with pornography.
00:35:18.88\00:35:20.98
From being
exposed that one time,
00:35:21.02\00:35:23.15
that first time,
you can become addicted.
00:35:23.18\00:35:26.09
You don't have to stay addicted,
00:35:26.12\00:35:27.82
but you can become addicted.
00:35:27.86\00:35:29.52
So it's important
to not even go there.
00:35:29.56\00:35:32.49
And it's so prevalent.
00:35:32.53\00:35:34.06
I think it's like
86% of the websites,
00:35:34.10\00:35:38.90
web pages, have porn.
00:35:38.93\00:35:42.24
That's it's...
It's just everywhere.
00:35:42.27\00:35:45.27
The other verse
that I wanted to share
00:35:45.31\00:35:47.24
was in Job 31:1,
00:35:47.28\00:35:50.31
where Job says,
and he was a rich guy.
00:35:50.35\00:35:54.12
He was a rich guy.
00:35:54.15\00:35:55.48
"I made a covenant with my eyes.
00:35:55.52\00:35:57.89
Why then should I
look upon a young woman."
00:35:57.92\00:36:00.72
And I said he was a rich guy
00:36:00.76\00:36:02.09
because he could have
had anything he wanted,
00:36:02.12\00:36:05.29
but he made a
covenant with his eyes
00:36:05.33\00:36:08.33
that he was not going
to look upon a young woman,
00:36:08.36\00:36:11.90
he had his wife,
00:36:11.93\00:36:13.27
he's going to stay right there.
00:36:13.30\00:36:14.67
So I mean that
it's really important
00:36:14.70\00:36:17.94
that we
understand the principles
00:36:17.97\00:36:20.48
that are written in the Word.
00:36:20.51\00:36:22.28
We can make a
covenant with our eyes
00:36:22.31\00:36:24.61
and set no wicked
thing before our eyes.
00:36:24.65\00:36:28.38
And those things are important.
00:36:28.42\00:36:30.79
Yvonne, I got more. Yes.
00:36:30.82\00:36:32.42
It's so devastating,
00:36:32.45\00:36:34.39
47% of families in
the United States reported
00:36:34.42\00:36:37.69
that pornography is a
problem in their home.
00:36:37.73\00:36:40.63
Pornography also,
00:36:40.66\00:36:42.30
pornography use increases
the marital infidelity rate
00:36:42.33\00:36:45.53
by more than 300%.
00:36:45.57\00:36:48.30
And over 40 million Americans
are regular visits to porn,
00:36:48.34\00:36:51.97
are regular
visitors to porn sites.
00:36:52.01\00:36:53.58
The average visit lasts
6 minutes and 29 seconds.
00:36:53.61\00:36:58.41
Forty million Americans.
That's just Americans.
00:36:58.45\00:37:01.88
We're not talking about
people around the world.
00:37:01.92\00:37:04.52
So if you're watching porn,
00:37:04.55\00:37:08.16
the average amount
of time is six minutes?
00:37:08.19\00:37:11.06
Oh, I have a correction.
00:37:11.09\00:37:13.03
Seventy percent of
Christian youth pastors
00:37:13.06\00:37:16.10
report that they have had
at least one teen come to them
00:37:16.13\00:37:18.87
for help in
dealing with pornography
00:37:18.90\00:37:20.40
in the past 12 months.
00:37:20.44\00:37:22.70
So it's not just older
adults, it is across the board.
00:37:22.74\00:37:27.88
Yeah.
00:37:27.91\00:37:29.24
The porn industry knows
00:37:29.28\00:37:30.61
that the sooner
that they can expose
00:37:30.65\00:37:31.98
a child to pornography,
00:37:32.01\00:37:33.35
the sooner that they
can get the revenues.
00:37:33.38\00:37:34.72
Science has shown that
when a young mind is exposed
00:37:34.75\00:37:37.49
to pornographic images
00:37:37.52\00:37:39.22
that the mind is so immature
that it can't process that.
00:37:39.25\00:37:42.32
What it does is
it creates this hook,
00:37:42.36\00:37:44.59
this drive for more.
00:37:44.63\00:37:46.16
A brain that is fully developed
and for a male that's about 29,
00:37:46.19\00:37:49.10
for a female about 26.
00:37:49.13\00:37:51.30
Their exposure to porn,
00:37:51.33\00:37:52.67
if they've never seen it before,
00:37:52.70\00:37:54.04
for them is
disturbing and disgusting,
00:37:54.07\00:37:56.54
but to a young mind,
it creates an addiction
00:37:56.57\00:37:59.24
and the three of the people
00:37:59.27\00:38:00.61
that you're interviewing tonight
00:38:00.64\00:38:01.98
have all come from
pornography addiction,
00:38:02.01\00:38:04.38
and many of us
from a very young age.
00:38:04.41\00:38:06.68
So, let's start
with you, Michael.
00:38:06.72\00:38:10.32
At what point did
you begin to look at porn
00:38:10.35\00:38:14.29
and how did it just draw you in?
00:38:14.32\00:38:16.86
Well, you know,
it was the early 70s.
00:38:16.89\00:38:18.49
And my mother was kind of trying
00:38:18.53\00:38:20.00
to be forward thinking,
00:38:20.03\00:38:21.36
and she could tell
that I had some issues
00:38:21.40\00:38:23.06
with gender identity.
00:38:23.10\00:38:24.43
And so my mother gave me
00:38:24.47\00:38:25.80
my father's
pornography magazines
00:38:25.83\00:38:27.17
when my father, you
know, left the home.
00:38:27.20\00:38:29.04
And I remember
looking at those images
00:38:29.07\00:38:31.11
at 10 years old, and I'm 60 now.
00:38:31.14\00:38:33.11
So when I looked at those images
00:38:33.14\00:38:34.48
at 10 years old,
00:38:34.51\00:38:35.84
I can still now
recall their names,
00:38:35.88\00:38:37.81
I can still
remember what they look like,
00:38:37.85\00:38:39.75
what the centerfolds were,
but for a transgender person,
00:38:39.78\00:38:43.08
when I looked at those
images, I was desperate
00:38:43.12\00:38:45.99
for male
acceptance and male love.
00:38:46.02\00:38:47.89
And so I thought to myself,
00:38:47.92\00:38:49.46
I remember this thought
00:38:49.49\00:38:50.83
that if men were
attracted to them,
00:38:50.86\00:38:52.76
or if men loved those images,
00:38:52.79\00:38:54.83
then if I look like those women,
00:38:54.86\00:38:56.70
then men would love me too.
00:38:56.73\00:38:58.20
So really my
mother's attempt to help me
00:38:58.23\00:39:00.10
with healthy
attraction actually backfired.
00:39:00.14\00:39:02.60
Yes.
00:39:02.64\00:39:03.97
I remember that
even at 10 years old.
00:39:04.01\00:39:05.34
You know what's
interesting to me
00:39:05.37\00:39:06.71
and this is kind of an aside.
00:39:06.74\00:39:08.81
But the whole transgender issue
00:39:08.84\00:39:11.78
where parents are
allowing children to decide
00:39:11.81\00:39:16.89
that they should
have that surgery.
00:39:16.92\00:39:20.32
It's mind boggling.
00:39:20.36\00:39:21.76
I would have been first in line.
00:39:21.79\00:39:23.16
At six years old,
00:39:23.19\00:39:24.53
I knew that I was a
girl trapped in a boy's body
00:39:24.56\00:39:27.03
and if they had the
laws that they have today,
00:39:27.06\00:39:29.40
where the government can step in
00:39:29.43\00:39:30.87
against the will of the parents
00:39:30.90\00:39:32.23
and start giving
your children hormones
00:39:32.27\00:39:34.04
to block their puberty process,
I would have been first.
00:39:34.07\00:39:37.87
Transgenderism followed
me until I was 20 years old.
00:39:37.91\00:39:40.38
But there was a child
that was eight years old
00:39:40.41\00:39:43.18
that began the hormone treatment
00:39:43.21\00:39:44.88
by permission with his mother,
00:39:44.91\00:39:46.35
and she was going
through a therapist,
00:39:46.38\00:39:48.18
and the boy started to
develop natural breasts.
00:39:48.22\00:39:50.59
His face started to
change and become more feminine.
00:39:50.62\00:39:53.79
His voice didn't change.
00:39:53.82\00:39:55.36
So by the time he was
13, he announced to his mom,
00:39:55.39\00:39:58.33
he said, "Wait, I'm
not a girl, I am a boy."
00:39:58.36\00:40:00.93
And so when they took
him off of these hormones,
00:40:00.96\00:40:02.76
it's still they had
to surgically remove
00:40:02.80\00:40:04.90
these naturally
developed breasts
00:40:04.93\00:40:06.84
because of the hormones.
00:40:06.87\00:40:08.20
He's going to a voice
coach now to lower his voice,
00:40:08.24\00:40:10.77
all because we allow children
to determine what sex they are.
00:40:10.81\00:40:14.34
You know, a kid
doesn't even know
00:40:14.38\00:40:15.71
what his favorite color is,
00:40:15.74\00:40:17.08
you know, from
one day to the next.
00:40:17.11\00:40:18.45
And so we're
going to let children
00:40:18.48\00:40:19.81
determine their sex?
00:40:19.85\00:40:21.18
Yes, absolutely.
00:40:21.22\00:40:22.55
And the most horrific thing
about the transgender issue
00:40:22.58\00:40:24.65
is it doesn't change your DNA.
00:40:24.69\00:40:26.45
Your DNA is as
mutable as your fingerprint.
00:40:26.49\00:40:29.46
And your DNA determines
that you're male or female.
00:40:29.49\00:40:31.83
So I can mutilate my body
00:40:31.86\00:40:33.93
and make it appear
female on the outside,
00:40:33.96\00:40:36.00
but you'll never
give a transgender person
00:40:36.03\00:40:38.47
the opposite sex.
00:40:38.50\00:40:39.83
And they found that the
suicide rates reflect that.
00:40:39.87\00:40:42.40
The suicide rates among
00:40:42.44\00:40:43.77
the transgender
population is 30%,
00:40:43.81\00:40:46.57
a third of people struggling
with transgender ideation
00:40:46.61\00:40:49.61
are committing suicide
00:40:49.64\00:40:50.98
but you're not going
to hear that in the media
00:40:51.01\00:40:52.75
and a whopping 41% will
actually attempt suicide.
00:40:52.78\00:40:56.95
And it's such a sad
thing because this has,
00:40:56.99\00:41:01.52
the media really promotes this.
00:41:01.56\00:41:05.46
I mean, pushes it, like,
00:41:05.49\00:41:07.40
let's, oh, your child
is that, is transgender.
00:41:07.43\00:41:10.60
Well, let's just,
you know, support that.
00:41:10.63\00:41:13.84
And that's
considered forward thinking,
00:41:13.87\00:41:15.64
and kindness, and humane.
00:41:15.67\00:41:18.47
What is it, like,
00:41:18.51\00:41:19.84
it's the ultimate
expression of humanity
00:41:19.87\00:41:21.84
to tell someone to
mutilate their body.
00:41:21.88\00:41:24.45
And then to give them these...
00:41:24.48\00:41:26.08
There was a woman in Belgium
00:41:26.11\00:41:27.78
who after her sex
change to become a man,
00:41:27.82\00:41:30.35
she looked in the mirror,
and she saw all of the scarring
00:41:30.39\00:41:33.09
and what the
surgeries did to her body.
00:41:33.12\00:41:35.22
And she petitioned
the government of Belgium
00:41:35.26\00:41:37.49
to give her an assisted suicide
00:41:37.53\00:41:39.06
because she said,
00:41:39.09\00:41:40.43
"I couldn't stand the way
that I looked in the mirror."
00:41:40.46\00:41:42.16
But again, you're not
going to hear that in the media
00:41:42.20\00:41:43.67
and she was granted
00:41:43.70\00:41:45.13
that execution if
you were to like it.
00:41:45.17\00:41:47.60
Euthanasia?
00:41:47.64\00:41:48.97
Yes, euthanasia.
00:41:49.00\00:41:50.34
Yeah, she was granted that
00:41:50.37\00:41:51.74
on the grounds of unbearable,
00:41:51.77\00:41:55.18
that she couldn't
live that way anymore.
00:41:55.21\00:41:57.41
It's what we're
doing in this country
00:41:57.45\00:42:01.88
and around the world, really,
00:42:01.92\00:42:03.59
with the whole sexual sin.
00:42:03.62\00:42:06.86
We're afraid to call it sin,
00:42:06.89\00:42:10.66
but we have to
identify what it is,
00:42:10.69\00:42:13.96
if you can't
identify what it is,
00:42:14.00\00:42:16.26
then you can't talk
about the remedy for it.
00:42:16.30\00:42:19.97
What it is, Yvonne, and
when I thought about this,
00:42:20.00\00:42:22.84
or when it was revealed to me,
00:42:22.87\00:42:25.37
I again see the
power of the enemy.
00:42:25.41\00:42:27.64
The enemy wants to kill,
00:42:27.68\00:42:29.51
steal and destroy
that precious gift
00:42:29.54\00:42:31.48
that God has given
to men and to women,
00:42:31.51\00:42:33.92
you know, in
Chapter 1 of Genesis
00:42:33.95\00:42:36.28
verses 27 and 28.
00:42:36.32\00:42:37.89
It says that God
made them male and female,
00:42:37.92\00:42:40.46
and the first
work that He gave them
00:42:40.49\00:42:42.26
was to be fruitful and multiply.
00:42:42.29\00:42:44.63
And so that was the
fullest expression of God.
00:42:44.66\00:42:47.33
He gave us the ability
to be creators ourselves
00:42:47.36\00:42:50.20
after He created us.
00:42:50.23\00:42:51.57
So don't you think
that that really got
00:42:51.60\00:42:53.34
under the skin of the Devil?
00:42:53.37\00:42:54.80
You know, he said, "What?
00:42:54.84\00:42:56.17
You know, you're
going to give man
00:42:56.20\00:42:57.54
the special gift of creation,"
00:42:57.57\00:42:59.04
when Satan
himself in his ego said,
00:42:59.07\00:43:00.68
he wanted to be like
the Most High, right?
00:43:00.71\00:43:02.88
He wanted to be like God.
00:43:02.91\00:43:04.25
And so doesn't it make sense
00:43:04.28\00:43:05.61
that the LGBT
issue really is designed
00:43:05.65\00:43:08.48
to do nothing more than
to destroy the image of God
00:43:08.52\00:43:11.79
that was put
inside of each one of us.
00:43:11.82\00:43:13.52
Yes.
00:43:13.56\00:43:14.89
That is the real bottom line.
00:43:14.92\00:43:17.13
And so how do we
flip that perception?
00:43:17.16\00:43:20.70
That perception is flipped
00:43:20.73\00:43:22.46
by people
understanding who God is,
00:43:22.50\00:43:24.97
what His original intention was,
00:43:25.00\00:43:27.64
and how much He loves us.
00:43:27.67\00:43:29.80
He loves, you know,
00:43:29.84\00:43:31.64
there's some
Christians who are like,
00:43:31.67\00:43:33.64
God hates gays, God loves you.
00:43:33.68\00:43:36.71
If you're struggling
with same sex attraction,
00:43:36.75\00:43:39.85
God loves you so much.
00:43:39.88\00:43:42.08
He wants to draw you to Him.
00:43:42.12\00:43:43.59
He wants to stop all
the agony and the anxiety.
00:43:43.62\00:43:47.22
He wants to love you
and to show you what true,
00:43:47.26\00:43:51.09
a true
relationship with Him really is.
00:43:51.13\00:43:54.70
That's what it's all about.
00:43:54.73\00:43:56.30
And that's what I love
about Coming Out Ministries.
00:43:56.33\00:43:59.43
I have to tell, you
guys, I just love what you do.
00:43:59.47\00:44:03.00
Because again,
you've been there,
00:44:03.04\00:44:05.17
you've had the experience,
00:44:05.21\00:44:06.84
and yet, God has brought you out
00:44:06.88\00:44:09.48
and now you can share it.
00:44:09.51\00:44:10.85
And I know that
you get resistance
00:44:10.88\00:44:13.11
from people who are still in it,
00:44:13.15\00:44:15.18
because they
don't want you to say,
00:44:15.22\00:44:17.59
you should come out of it.
00:44:17.62\00:44:19.12
No, accept it, embrace it.
00:44:19.15\00:44:21.12
No, that's not part
of God's plan for you.
00:44:21.16\00:44:24.69
What about you, Kezia?
00:44:24.73\00:44:26.56
At what point did
you get into pornography?
00:44:26.59\00:44:29.90
For myself, I
don't have an exact age.
00:44:29.93\00:44:31.97
But I do know it was
before my parents divorced.
00:44:32.00\00:44:34.90
So being that
my parents divorced
00:44:34.94\00:44:36.27
when I was about 12,
00:44:36.30\00:44:38.61
so already by 12 I was already,
00:44:38.64\00:44:40.14
I know I was
already active in it.
00:44:40.18\00:44:42.21
I know we had a TV,
00:44:42.24\00:44:43.91
or rather a
computer in my parent's room,
00:44:43.95\00:44:46.05
and sometimes I
would watch it in there
00:44:46.08\00:44:48.08
from time to time.
00:44:48.12\00:44:49.45
And so it really
wasn't until just knowing
00:44:49.48\00:44:52.19
when my parents
divorced afterwards,
00:44:52.22\00:44:54.29
just seeing how I was
really addicted to it.
00:44:54.32\00:44:57.56
And really just seeing
that I would turn to it anytime
00:44:57.59\00:44:59.93
I was really
feeling depressed or sad,
00:44:59.96\00:45:02.06
and just really trying to
have some sort of an outlet.
00:45:02.10\00:45:04.77
And so over time
throughout all the years
00:45:04.80\00:45:07.44
just recognizing like the damage
00:45:07.47\00:45:08.80
that was done,
00:45:08.84\00:45:10.17
it really wasn't
until I came across a study
00:45:10.21\00:45:12.07
from the American Board
of Psychiatry and Neurology,
00:45:12.11\00:45:15.38
how they had,
they did a brain scan,
00:45:15.41\00:45:17.48
and they showed a
regular person's brain
00:45:17.51\00:45:19.55
had they never watched porn,
00:45:19.58\00:45:21.38
just a regular brain surface,
the brain looked healthy.
00:45:21.42\00:45:24.52
And they had compared
that to someone who had,
00:45:24.55\00:45:26.65
who was addicted to heroin.
00:45:26.69\00:45:28.49
And they show that
that person's brain
00:45:28.52\00:45:30.06
had some holes in it in
regards to the MRI scans.
00:45:30.09\00:45:32.86
And then they compared it
00:45:32.89\00:45:34.23
to someone who was
addicted to pornography.
00:45:34.26\00:45:36.10
And it just showed the brain
00:45:36.13\00:45:37.47
having more
holes within the brain.
00:45:37.50\00:45:39.63
And so, of course, it all varies
00:45:39.67\00:45:41.54
depending on the amount of usage
00:45:41.57\00:45:43.47
in regards to
the years, the hours.
00:45:43.51\00:45:45.87
But over time,
when I was learning
00:45:45.91\00:45:47.44
that I was a bit discouraged
00:45:47.48\00:45:48.81
and seeing that I was
already damaging myself
00:45:48.84\00:45:50.78
from a young age,
00:45:50.81\00:45:52.15
but I never thought
it really had any...
00:45:52.18\00:45:53.75
I didn't think it had
any consequences per se
00:45:53.78\00:45:55.92
because it wasn't external.
00:45:55.95\00:45:57.89
So internally, there
was a lot of things going on
00:45:57.92\00:46:00.22
especially with the brain,
00:46:00.26\00:46:01.62
and realizing I had to
learn to rewire my brain,
00:46:01.66\00:46:04.63
which is really good
00:46:04.66\00:46:05.99
because as you
had mentioned earlier,
00:46:06.03\00:46:07.36
to know God, to
learn of who God is,
00:46:07.40\00:46:09.23
to learn of what He
originally designed for us.
00:46:09.26\00:46:12.60
So over time,
00:46:12.63\00:46:13.97
I was seeing that
what I had started
00:46:14.00\00:46:15.34
from such a young age,
00:46:15.37\00:46:16.91
that God was able to restore me,
00:46:16.94\00:46:19.41
because even though I had let go
00:46:19.44\00:46:21.18
of this smoking and
the drinking, the partying,
00:46:21.21\00:46:24.05
when it came to
the sexual addiction,
00:46:24.08\00:46:25.45
it was really hard to let go of,
00:46:25.48\00:46:27.65
like the sexual
addiction to pornography,
00:46:27.68\00:46:29.35
the masturbation,
00:46:29.38\00:46:30.72
it was a struggle, it was a hole
00:46:30.75\00:46:32.09
because I realized that
was something I turned to
00:46:32.12\00:46:35.36
anytime I was feeling depressed,
00:46:35.39\00:46:37.53
anytime I needed
some sort of a comfort,
00:46:37.56\00:46:39.23
even if it was temporary,
00:46:39.26\00:46:40.83
even if it just
provided some sort
00:46:40.86\00:46:42.23
of immediate gratification.
00:46:42.26\00:46:44.40
Because one of the
things I was realizing over time
00:46:44.43\00:46:46.84
is that when it
comes to relying on God,
00:46:46.87\00:46:49.54
that season of
waiting, it's hard sometimes.
00:46:49.57\00:46:52.44
And so it's really easy
to just go to pornography
00:46:52.47\00:46:54.98
and just to do
certain things with people
00:46:55.01\00:46:57.41
because we don't
want to wait on God.
00:46:57.45\00:46:59.18
And so I had to learn over time
00:46:59.21\00:47:00.92
that there's a reason why
God desires for us to wait,
00:47:00.95\00:47:03.79
just like with Adam.
00:47:03.82\00:47:05.65
Before Eve even came,
00:47:05.69\00:47:07.02
there was that
season of waiting,
00:47:07.06\00:47:08.39
but in his waiting
he was still active,
00:47:08.42\00:47:09.92
he was working,
00:47:09.96\00:47:11.29
before even Eve
came into the picture.
00:47:11.33\00:47:13.46
So just seeing what
God originally designed,
00:47:13.50\00:47:15.50
and what I was doing
was really just harming me.
00:47:15.53\00:47:18.27
Yvonne, it goes
perfectly with your story.
00:47:18.30\00:47:20.94
Listen to this.
00:47:20.97\00:47:22.67
Women were two times more likely
00:47:22.70\00:47:24.81
to be introduced to
pornography by someone older,
00:47:24.84\00:47:27.51
when they to very great extent
00:47:27.54\00:47:29.48
wanted more
involvement with their father.
00:47:29.51\00:47:32.05
The risk tripled
of being introduced
00:47:32.08\00:47:33.75
to pornography by someone older
00:47:33.78\00:47:35.12
for those who to
a very great extent
00:47:35.15\00:47:37.25
wanted more of their
mother's involvement.
00:47:37.29\00:47:40.39
You were ripe for
pornography, Kezia.
00:47:40.42\00:47:43.16
The risk of being
introduced to pornography
00:47:43.19\00:47:45.06
by someone older
increased from 9 to 38%
00:47:45.09\00:47:48.33
when they reported their father
00:47:48.36\00:47:49.76
showed a very great deal
more interest in a sibling.
00:47:49.80\00:47:53.27
So again, when
these broken homes,
00:47:53.30\00:47:55.40
we have more single
mothers raising families now
00:47:55.44\00:47:57.81
than ever before.
00:47:57.84\00:47:59.21
And the statistic, they
say can never be reversed.
00:47:59.24\00:48:01.78
So we are
creating a perfect storm
00:48:01.81\00:48:04.01
for porn addiction in children.
00:48:04.05\00:48:05.55
Yes, that's very true.
00:48:05.58\00:48:07.85
The whole family dynamic
00:48:07.88\00:48:11.42
does lend itself often
to creating that addiction.
00:48:11.45\00:48:16.02
I was listening to
what you were saying
00:48:16.06\00:48:17.56
about waiting on the Lord
00:48:17.59\00:48:19.29
and how sometimes it gets hard
00:48:19.33\00:48:21.76
and your
anxiety level can go up.
00:48:21.80\00:48:24.73
And then you will
resort to the things
00:48:24.77\00:48:27.67
that bring you
temporary gratification.
00:48:27.70\00:48:30.27
Fix.
00:48:30.31\00:48:31.64
Yes, that kind of instant fix.
00:48:31.67\00:48:34.18
But yet, with that
comes the guilt and the shame
00:48:34.21\00:48:38.11
because you realize
once it's done that,
00:48:38.15\00:48:41.25
I shouldn't have done that.
00:48:41.28\00:48:42.62
So it's just an endless cycle.
00:48:42.65\00:48:46.49
And so praise God
00:48:46.52\00:48:48.16
that you learned to wait on Him.
00:48:48.19\00:48:51.76
Because the anxiety
waiting on Him is way...
00:48:51.79\00:48:55.06
I mean, it's better than that.
00:48:55.10\00:48:58.57
It's not a long wait.
00:48:58.60\00:48:59.93
Yes, exactly, exactly.
00:48:59.97\00:49:02.40
What about you, Harrison?
00:49:02.44\00:49:03.87
At what point did you realize
00:49:03.91\00:49:05.44
that you were really
hooked on pornography?
00:49:05.47\00:49:08.71
Well, as I was sharing,
00:49:08.74\00:49:11.88
I told that this addiction
00:49:11.91\00:49:15.22
was right for human.
00:49:15.25\00:49:18.12
And then he told that
when I was, when I get married,
00:49:18.15\00:49:22.52
that was going to be gone.
00:49:22.56\00:49:24.83
And so, I say,
well, there is no problem.
00:49:24.86\00:49:28.50
I can still doing it
and even as I was sharing,
00:49:28.53\00:49:32.10
making fun of those
that were not practicing,
00:49:32.13\00:49:35.60
and there is something
00:49:35.64\00:49:37.14
that I will like to bring
00:49:37.17\00:49:41.38
is about the...
00:49:41.41\00:49:43.24
In our churches,
00:49:43.28\00:49:45.45
there is a kind of practice
00:49:45.48\00:49:48.68
about classification of sins.
00:49:48.72\00:49:51.45
Yes.
00:49:51.49\00:49:52.82
Because, you know, we
talk about many issues
00:49:52.85\00:49:56.39
like for example,
the homosexuality.
00:49:56.42\00:50:00.43
We say, oh, that's the worst sin
00:50:00.46\00:50:02.36
that you can and even
people that were in bondage
00:50:02.40\00:50:05.73
of pornography and masturbation
00:50:05.77\00:50:08.20
and being
straight or heterosexual.
00:50:08.24\00:50:12.04
And so, it is a kind of, at
that moment, I was thinking,
00:50:12.07\00:50:17.35
"Okay, well if
you're not practicing
00:50:17.38\00:50:18.88
that you are homosexual."
00:50:18.91\00:50:20.82
So, I was judging and saying,
00:50:20.85\00:50:24.22
"Okay, well, you are
committing a worst sin."
00:50:24.25\00:50:26.65
Yeah.
00:50:26.69\00:50:28.02
So for me,
00:50:28.06\00:50:29.39
I'm doing just something normal.
00:50:29.42\00:50:31.06
So when I grew up, being at,
00:50:31.09\00:50:35.16
I was 19 years old,
00:50:35.20\00:50:36.73
I got my first
phone with internet.
00:50:36.77\00:50:41.27
So it was difficult for me
to get that pornography before.
00:50:41.30\00:50:44.71
But at the moment,
I have plenty of...
00:50:44.74\00:50:48.74
Options. Options, right?
00:50:48.78\00:50:50.25
Had plenty options to get
all that I'd really wanted
00:50:50.28\00:50:53.98
every day, every day.
00:50:54.02\00:50:55.88
So at that moment,
00:50:55.92\00:50:58.92
I kept thinking
that it was right
00:50:58.95\00:51:01.19
for someone young like me.
00:51:01.22\00:51:03.49
But, until I left the church
00:51:03.53\00:51:08.50
and I return and then starting
00:51:08.53\00:51:13.54
with a group of people
00:51:13.57\00:51:16.81
or young people that they wanted
00:51:16.84\00:51:18.47
to have a real
relationship with God,
00:51:18.51\00:51:21.64
I realized that
something was not right
00:51:21.68\00:51:24.68
about doing those things.
00:51:24.71\00:51:27.02
So, I think it's very important
00:51:27.05\00:51:30.39
that our churches talk
about the sin, how we see it.
00:51:30.42\00:51:34.06
Sin is sin.
00:51:34.09\00:51:35.42
Yes.
00:51:35.46\00:51:36.79
And you know,
00:51:36.83\00:51:38.16
there is a risk
of our salvations
00:51:38.19\00:51:40.76
when we keep
saying, okay, we are,
00:51:40.80\00:51:43.63
we are going to keep
sinning until God comes.
00:51:43.67\00:51:47.77
And that's something
that I learned the rest,
00:51:47.80\00:51:52.27
the most part of my life.
00:51:52.31\00:51:54.71
So when I understood
that really God wants us
00:51:54.74\00:51:58.95
to save us from our
sins, not in our sins.
00:51:58.98\00:52:03.49
Yes, yes.
00:52:03.52\00:52:04.85
I realized that really,
00:52:04.89\00:52:06.99
there was a way out to it.
00:52:07.02\00:52:10.03
And so God
started to work on me.
00:52:10.06\00:52:13.93
But it is really
important to get that in mind.
00:52:13.96\00:52:17.83
And if you are
leader of a church,
00:52:17.87\00:52:21.20
it is very, very
important that we need to stop
00:52:21.24\00:52:26.91
to classify the sin.
00:52:26.94\00:52:28.34
Sin is sin.
00:52:28.38\00:52:29.71
Even if you are just
a liar, it's the same.
00:52:29.74\00:52:34.18
So that's how we
cannot see each other
00:52:34.22\00:52:38.25
over our shoulder.
00:52:38.29\00:52:39.62
You know, I am better than you.
00:52:39.65\00:52:41.49
And, so that happened to me.
00:52:41.52\00:52:46.76
There is a...
00:52:46.80\00:52:48.20
You know, we tend to
have a hierarchy of sin.
00:52:48.23\00:52:50.70
Yeah.
00:52:50.73\00:52:52.07
So this isn't so
bad, this is really bad.
00:52:52.10\00:52:55.60
Well, sin is sin,
just like you said.
00:52:55.64\00:52:58.87
There's no hierarchy
of sin really, sin is sin,
00:52:58.91\00:53:01.84
and we have to stop
the classification of it
00:53:01.88\00:53:05.08
and understand that
God is able to deliver us
00:53:05.11\00:53:10.05
wherever we are,
00:53:10.09\00:53:11.79
whatever sin
we're being held in,
00:53:11.82\00:53:15.69
we can be set free from.
00:53:15.72\00:53:17.53
So I have some signs and
symptoms of porn addiction
00:53:17.56\00:53:21.06
that I want to
share from this article,
00:53:21.10\00:53:23.20
It says, you basically
you know you're addicted
00:53:23.23\00:53:26.74
if you're using
porn in greater amounts,
00:53:26.77\00:53:29.20
or over longer
periods of time than intended.
00:53:29.24\00:53:32.21
Well, shouldn't be used at all.
00:53:32.24\00:53:34.61
This is not from a
Christian perspective.
00:53:34.64\00:53:37.05
Right.
00:53:37.08\00:53:38.41
Trying to stop using
porn but you're not able to,
00:53:38.45\00:53:41.82
having difficulty
controlling porn use,
00:53:41.85\00:53:45.35
using it in situations
that impose physical dangers,
00:53:45.39\00:53:49.32
and continuing to use
porn despite negative effects
00:53:49.36\00:53:52.73
on work and relationships.
00:53:52.76\00:53:55.33
And porn can be so
detrimental to a marriage.
00:53:55.36\00:54:00.14
There's so many
people who are watching porn
00:54:00.17\00:54:04.14
and then the relationships
are really messed up
00:54:04.17\00:54:09.44
because the
expectations on the partner
00:54:09.48\00:54:13.18
are just
distorted based on the porn.
00:54:13.21\00:54:16.18
Especially when it comes to,
00:54:16.22\00:54:18.85
like, why
wouldn't say just the men
00:54:18.89\00:54:20.26
'cause I know sometimes
women struggle with it as well,
00:54:20.29\00:54:22.56
but when it tends to
be with the men on top of,
00:54:22.59\00:54:25.29
you know, watching pornography,
00:54:25.33\00:54:27.23
and also playing video games,
00:54:27.26\00:54:28.83
they've already built a
habit of being in control.
00:54:28.86\00:54:31.63
So when you're
watching all this porn,
00:54:31.67\00:54:33.57
there's a sense
where you're just thinking,
00:54:33.60\00:54:34.94
you know what, like,
as Harrison had mentioned,
00:54:34.97\00:54:36.91
you have all these options.
00:54:36.94\00:54:38.27
So now you're picking,
00:54:38.31\00:54:39.64
okay, I want to
look at this type of,
00:54:39.67\00:54:41.01
you know, activity.
00:54:41.04\00:54:42.38
I want to see with
this amount of people,
00:54:42.41\00:54:43.75
I want to see this sort of race,
00:54:43.78\00:54:45.11
whatever, that person,
00:54:45.15\00:54:46.48
they have all these
options available to them.
00:54:46.51\00:54:47.85
And so they're
already built in their minds
00:54:47.88\00:54:50.19
that whatever they want,
00:54:50.22\00:54:51.55
whenever they want it,
00:54:51.59\00:54:52.95
forever how long
they're in control.
00:54:52.99\00:54:55.26
So now when they bring
that same habit into marriage,
00:54:55.29\00:54:57.96
thinking that you know what,
00:54:57.99\00:54:59.33
my spouse is going
to do whatever I want,
00:54:59.36\00:55:00.93
at this time, whatever I say,
00:55:00.96\00:55:03.37
they're failing to see that
that's not what God designed.
00:55:03.40\00:55:05.73
And on top of
like the video games,
00:55:05.77\00:55:07.40
like there's a level of
control that they think is okay,
00:55:07.44\00:55:11.14
and failing to
realize that God desires
00:55:11.17\00:55:13.54
for them to be selfless,
00:55:13.58\00:55:15.44
that when you're
acting in pornography,
00:55:15.48\00:55:17.51
especially when
you're married now,
00:55:17.55\00:55:19.11
there's that level
of just gratification,
00:55:19.15\00:55:21.38
self gratification
and failing to realize
00:55:21.42\00:55:23.59
that when it's both of you,
00:55:23.62\00:55:25.22
there's
communication that's necessary,
00:55:25.25\00:55:27.19
a level of exploring
that has to take place,
00:55:27.22\00:55:29.36
but that doesn't quite happen
when porn is in the picture.
00:55:29.39\00:55:32.19
And even for myself,
00:55:32.23\00:55:33.56
'cause I was
under the impression
00:55:33.60\00:55:34.93
that you know what?
00:55:34.96\00:55:36.30
You know, I'll
have a "godly marriage,"
00:55:36.33\00:55:37.90
but I'll also bring
pornography into it,
00:55:37.93\00:55:40.20
and just thinking that the porn
would help me in my marriage,
00:55:40.24\00:55:43.67
because I, you
know, I wasn't taught
00:55:43.71\00:55:45.04
that porn was bad within church.
00:55:45.07\00:55:46.81
So over time, what
I was being taught,
00:55:46.84\00:55:48.38
I never went to
an Adventist school,
00:55:48.41\00:55:50.28
but just through
like my time with friends
00:55:50.31\00:55:51.85
within the public school,
00:55:51.88\00:55:53.21
just thinking that okay
with all the pornography,
00:55:53.25\00:55:55.48
it'll help me
gain more experience,
00:55:55.52\00:55:57.15
helping me to be more
equipped within marriage
00:55:57.19\00:56:00.26
And that tends to
happen a lot within marriage.
00:56:00.29\00:56:02.76
I'm just thinking that
we could get new ideas,
00:56:02.79\00:56:04.93
rather than
communicating with your partner
00:56:04.96\00:56:07.30
and learning them and exploring,
00:56:07.33\00:56:08.76
you know about, you know,
00:56:08.80\00:56:10.13
learning what
this person is about.
00:56:10.17\00:56:11.73
But when porn is in the picture,
00:56:11.77\00:56:13.20
it causes you to
really isolate yourself
00:56:13.23\00:56:15.30
and to do things
on your own time.
00:56:15.34\00:56:16.84
Right.
00:56:16.87\00:56:18.21
Those are such great points.
00:56:18.24\00:56:21.94
We are going to come back
00:56:21.98\00:56:23.31
with the second
hour in just a moment
00:56:23.35\00:56:25.25
and talk about
how God delivered you
00:56:25.28\00:56:28.38
because our people need
to hear how God has delivered
00:56:28.42\00:56:33.52
and what tools you
can use to be set free.
00:56:33.56\00:56:37.46
If you have
questions or comments,
00:56:37.49\00:56:40.40
please email us or call us.
00:56:40.43\00:56:43.73
You can call us at 618-627-4651
00:56:43.77\00:56:48.17
or email us at live@3abn.tv.
00:56:48.20\00:56:52.77
We won't read your names,
00:56:52.81\00:56:54.21
but feel free to
share what's on your heart.
00:56:54.24\00:56:57.91
If you have
comments about this program,
00:56:57.95\00:57:00.25
please share it.
00:57:00.28\00:57:01.62
Don't go away.
We'll be right back.
00:57:01.65\00:57:04.05