Participants:
Series Code: TDYL
Program Code: TDYL190028A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my word 00:30 heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 mending broken people 01:09 Hello and welcome 01:10 to a special Thursday Night Live. 01:12 Thank you for joining us as you do each and every day 01:16 and especially for the Thursday Night Live programs. 01:19 We're here in West Frankfort/Thompsonville, 01:21 Illinois, 01:23 and it's been a great week here in Southern Illinois. 01:26 It's not been too hot, has it? 01:27 No, it started to actually feel a little bit like fall. 01:29 Yeah, I agree. It's been a little cool. 01:32 And I noticed our cat, 01:33 we have a little cat named Pebbles. 01:35 And she was sitting on our back deck this morning 01:38 in the sunshine. 01:39 She was enjoying the morning sunshine. 01:41 So that tells you it's getting a little cooler in the morning 01:43 because she's looking for that warmth indeed. 01:46 But we're so glad for your prayers 01:48 and financial support for the ministry of 3ABN. 01:51 If it weren't for you, 01:53 this ministry wouldn't be in existence. 01:55 And what's really special about you being part of our family 01:57 is that you're making a difference 01:59 in the lives of other people. 02:01 So as you give your donations to 3ABN, 02:04 it's making a difference for eternity. 02:06 And we have a special program this evening, don't we? 02:09 This is going to be a lot of fun. 02:10 It's on relationships, marriage, family. 02:15 We all have relationship with someone. 02:16 I agree. 02:18 And that's important, whether you're married 02:19 or divorced or widowed 02:21 or whatever status, you are single, 02:24 never been married, 02:25 this program is for you. 02:26 Because we God created us 02:28 to be in relationship with other people, 02:31 He created us to be in relationship with Him 02:33 first of all, 02:34 and then in relationship with other people. 02:36 So we all have a friend, we all have a family member, 02:38 we all have a co-worker. 02:40 And this program is going to be a lot of fun. 02:42 I want to say we have some old friends, 02:45 but that is not a good word because... 02:46 No. 02:47 We are still very young, 02:49 I just want you all to know that right now. 02:50 Thank you, baby. That's good, I appreciate that. 02:52 We have Pastor Steve and Tammy Conway with us. 02:55 And Pastor Steve, we went to school with him. 02:57 We won't even say what year that was, 02:59 but we graduated together. 03:00 That just seems like yesterday. 03:04 Oh, thank you. 03:05 Like 20 some years ago, though, isn't it? 03:07 Yeah, you had to go and spoil it. 03:10 Pastor, that was kindergarten. 03:12 We went to kindergarten together. 03:13 Okay. Yeah. 03:14 But we had a great time in school together. 03:16 Absolutely. 03:17 It's a blessing 'cause I know we get to see 03:18 as we go to some GYC, ASIs, other events, 03:22 but it's a blessing to have you here 03:23 first time for you and your wife 03:25 to be here at 3ABN. 03:26 Yes, yes, yes. 03:27 It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, isn't it? 03:29 Yeah, it is. 03:31 But it's wonderful to be here. 03:32 Wonderful to get an opportunity 03:34 to spend some time with friends 03:36 and to see what God is doing here at 3ABN. 03:39 Amen. 03:40 Because the city you come from is, 03:42 you know, we have a population of 03:43 here in Thomasville 550 people. 03:46 And I know where you guys come from, 03:47 just a tad bit more people, right? 03:49 Yeah, yeah, Detroit, Michigan is where we're from. 03:53 So there's a little bit more than that. 03:56 I think there's in the surrounding suburbia 04:00 and the city, 04:02 there's probably about 3.1 million people in the area. 04:05 Just a little bit different. Yeah. 04:06 Little different than 550. 04:08 So, Pastor Steve, 04:10 you are the pastor 04:11 of the Detroit Northwest Church. 04:12 Yes, Detroit Northwest Seventh-day Adventist Church. 04:15 How long have you all been pastoring there? 04:17 Eight years. Yeah. 04:19 Eight years, eight wonderful years. 04:22 Yeah. 04:23 And you have some children? 04:25 Oh, yes. 04:26 I know we have several pictures. 04:27 And you'll have to give their names. 04:29 Okay, here we go. Starting from the youngest. 04:31 Oh, the baby there smiling in the corner is... 04:33 This has been a few years ago too. 04:35 Yeah. Yes, yes. 04:36 Yeah, that's Angel. 04:38 And then the very cheesy one in the corner, that's Gabriel. 04:40 And then just behind us is our oldest son Israel 04:43 and our daughter Abigail. 04:44 Okay. 04:46 And then this transition to one 04:47 that's just to this is pretty recent, right? 04:48 Oh, yeah. Yes. 04:50 Grownups. 04:51 And Israel is actually a lot taller than that 04:53 even now, he's probably about 6'1. 04:57 Oh, wow. He's taller than his dad. 04:58 Wow! Yeah. 05:00 You see his growth spurt? Oh, yes. 05:05 Absolutely. 05:06 So, Tammy, tell us what you do. 05:07 I know you're a wife and a mom. 05:09 I definitely am a wife and a mom. 05:11 And that keeps me pretty busy. 05:13 But I do speaking now, 05:15 kind of endeavored more in that this year, 05:17 and try to run a blog 05:20 and I serve on the Women's Ministry Board 05:22 in Michigan Conference. 05:23 And so my hand is in a lot of little different things, 05:26 as well as helping 05:27 with the Ministry of Stamena4Life. 05:29 Yeah. 05:30 And tell us about Stamena4Life. 05:31 But before we get there, 05:33 you do an incredible job with the women's ministry team. 05:36 I had a privilege of being there this past year. 05:38 Oh, wow. 05:40 And Michigan Conference there at campus 05:41 above the women's ministry team there is incredible. 05:44 Wow. 05:45 Just many weekends and your cohesiveness 05:49 and the organization and the fun, it was just... 05:52 You did a great job, you and the team. 05:54 Praise God. The Lord is so good. 05:55 You know, we have a fearless leader. 05:57 We like to call her Janie. 05:59 And she's just amazing. 06:00 Her personality, 06:02 she makes it so easy to be creative. 06:04 She loves the Lord. 06:05 And she just has a way of bringing us all together 06:08 to get it done. 06:09 And it's been such an amazing, amazing journey. 06:11 Yeah. 06:13 So it was three weekends in a row. 06:14 I have to say that, pastor, 06:16 I went to the women's ministry three weekends in a row. 06:19 And I was blessed. Yes, yes. 06:21 It was a great time, and you do, I agree. 06:23 The Michigan Conference 06:24 has a fantastic women's ministry team. 06:26 Amen. 06:27 I was blessed even though I was a man, 06:30 it was good o be there to support you. 06:32 Thank you. That's okay. 06:33 But it was a blessing. 06:35 Thank you for what you and your team do. 06:36 Aw, thank you so much. And thank you for coming. 06:38 I mean, it was just... It blessed us. 06:39 It really, really did. 06:41 It was such an amazing, amazing weekend. 06:43 It was a privilege to be there. Yeah. 06:44 So tell us about Stamena4Life. What's that all about? 06:47 Well, Stamena4Life is... 06:50 What is that word called again, Tamra? 06:53 A portmanteau. 06:54 Say it again. Portmanteau. 06:56 I just learned this word. 06:58 And what does that mean? I need a dictionary right now. 07:01 Well, so tell me what that is. 07:02 What that is is it's a... 07:04 Because the spelling of Stamena is not the dictionary spelling. 07:08 But it's a combination of our names 07:11 Steven and Tamara. 07:13 So Stamena4Life and you know, 07:18 through the years God has been so good to us. 07:23 Our journey has been an exciting one. 07:26 We've had the privilege of meeting 07:27 so many different people 07:29 in various different stages of their lives. 07:32 And, you know, although it's been a blessing, 07:36 there's always something that you want to share 07:39 that sometimes you don't have the opportunity to, 07:41 and then you want to keep up with people, 07:44 and sometimes you lose track of where they are, 07:47 and so forth, and so on. 07:48 So Stamena4Life 07:49 has kind of been born out of that. 07:52 My wife and I, it's our attempt at trying to continue 07:56 to further the relationships that we've built with people 08:00 to provide resources 08:01 and various different things like that. 08:03 Yeah, yeah. 08:04 And also to I think one of the things 08:05 that we wanted to do is 08:07 we are living in a really interesting time, right? 08:11 With millennials, 08:12 and we have the privilege 08:14 of being able to work with campus ministries 08:15 for several years. 08:16 So we're always around younger generation. 08:19 So we hear their thoughts 08:20 we hear where they're coming from, 08:21 and their thoughts about relationships of all kinds. 08:24 And we couldn't help but to just be driven to 08:27 trying to create a space 08:28 where they can come and get not just answers 08:31 but address some of the really important things 08:32 that are on their minds as well. 08:34 Yeah. Fantastic. 08:36 Yeah, so tonight, we're gonna be diving 08:38 into talking about marriage, relationships. 08:42 All of it. All of all of that. 08:44 So we don't want you to turn off the TV 08:46 'cause it's not just about marriage. 08:48 It's about relationships, 08:49 like we were talking about earlier. 08:50 And we're all involved in relationships, 08:52 family, church, 08:54 'course in marriage, children, work. 08:56 And I know you got some interesting statistics 08:58 on the millennial 09:00 also generation too and relationships. 09:01 That's where we are right now for seeing the young people 09:04 and what they're dealing with. 09:06 But what we want to do right now 09:08 is go to some music. 09:10 We have Scott Michael Bennett with us 09:12 and he's going to be playing 09:13 and singing a beautiful song and titled Blessings. 09:34 We pray for blessings 09:38 We pray for peace 09:42 Comfort for family 09:45 Protection while we sleep 09:49 We pray for healing 09:53 For prosperity 09:57 We pray for Your mighty hand 10:01 To ease our suffering 10:05 And all the while 10:08 You hear each spoken need 10:12 Yet love is way too much 10:15 To give us lesser things 10:19 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 10:23 What if Your healing Comes through tears 10:27 And what if A thousand sleepless nights 10:30 Are what it takes to know You're near 10:36 What if trials of this life 10:40 Are Your mercies in disguise 10:58 We pray for wisdom Your 11:02 voice to hear 11:05 And we cry out in anger 11:09 When we cannot feel You near 11:14 We doubt your goodness 11:18 We doubt your love 11:21 As if every promise From Your Word 11:25 Is not enough 11:28 All the while 11:32 You hear Each desperate plea 11:36 And long that We'd have Faith to believe 11:43 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 11:47 What if Your healing Comes through tears 11:50 And what if A thousand sleepless nights 11:54 Are what it takes To know You're near 12:00 And what if trials of this life 12:04 Are Your mercies in disguise 12:11 When friends betray us 12:15 When darkness seems to win We know 12:19 This pain reminds this heart 12:21 That this is not No, this is not our home 12:31 Is not our home 12:41 'Cause what if your blessings Come through raindrops 12:45 What if Your healing Comes through tears 12:49 And what if A thousand sleepless nights 12:52 Are what it takes to know You're near 12:59 What if my greatest Disappointments 13:03 Or the aching of this life 13:07 Is the revealing Of a greater thirst 13:12 This world can't satisfy 13:18 What if trials of this life 13:22 The rain, the storms, The hardest nights 13:27 Are your mercies in disguise 13:56 Thank you so much, Scott Michael Bennett. 13:57 I think that's one of my favorite all time songs. 14:00 I just love that song, Blessings. 14:02 And what God wants to do in our lives 14:05 and even in the midst of pain or trial or tragedy 14:09 to know that God can still be working 14:12 even in the midst of that pain. 14:14 I love that. 14:15 We want to remind you that tonight is a live program. 14:18 If you're just joining us, 14:19 we're talking with Pastor Steve Conway 14:22 and his beautiful wife Tammy. 14:24 And they are the Speaker/Director 14:26 for Stamena4Life ministries 14:28 and we're so blessed to have both of you here. 14:31 We want to put up our contact information 14:33 because in the second hour, 14:35 we get to put you on the hot seat 14:36 and we get to ask some questions 14:39 from you at home. 14:40 So please email us at live@3abn.tv. 14:45 That's live@3abn.tv 14:49 or you can always give us a call at 618-627-4651, 14:55 that number again, 14:57 the call center is open tonight is 618-6274-651. 15:02 So if you're in the midst of a relationship, 15:04 if you have a question about a relationship 15:06 that you are currently involved in, 15:08 whether you should move forward into marriage 15:10 or maybe you're going through a divorce, 15:12 whatever type of question, whatever's on your heart, 15:15 it might even be a prayer need 15:17 for a relationship 15:18 that you're currently involved in, 15:20 feel free to email those in right now 15:23 and to call those in, 15:24 and we'll get to them the second hour. 15:26 So since we're talking about relationships, 15:29 tell us how you all met and about your relationship. 15:34 Well, we met... 15:37 We actually met in chemistry class. 15:41 Chemistry. Was there chemistry? 15:44 Well, you know, I tried. 15:46 I tried for the chemical reaction, 15:48 but nothing, nothing happened. 15:52 But we were in high school together. 15:56 And that's where we first met. 15:58 And I had a conversion experience, 16:03 post high school. 16:04 And I had my mind set on going home 16:08 and witnessing to a whole lot of people 16:11 that I had gone to high school with. 16:13 And in the process of that, 16:14 I ran back into this beautiful woman here 16:18 and invited her and some friends 16:22 over for Bible study 16:23 to my parents' home. 16:25 And the first study we had was on the sanctuary in heaven 16:29 and Jesus' ministry there, 16:31 and how he longs to erase the memory of sin, 16:36 not only from the universe 16:37 but also from our hearts and our minds. 16:39 And so that's how we met. 16:42 And I'll let her tell a little bit of her portion. 16:45 Yeah, it was interesting because we both come from, 16:49 I guess you could say, our beginnings were jaded. 16:51 You know, my home was a broken home, 16:53 my parents divorced 16:55 when I was around nine years old. 16:56 And so anyone who goes through something like that, 17:00 to a greater or lesser degree, are always affected by it. 17:02 And then I also had some abuse, 17:04 you know, whether it was sexual abuse 17:05 and some other things that have taken place in life. 17:07 And so, you know, when you're in high school, 17:09 you don't always know, 17:10 you know, what people are going through, 17:12 young people. 17:13 And I remember distinctly, 17:15 though he was not converted at that time, 17:18 I could tell when I look back, 17:20 that he grew up in a Christian home, you know? 17:22 And so but later on, you know, we had a chance to meet up. 17:26 And while he had that Bible study in his home, 17:29 he went back to college, 17:31 you know, where you all went to school, 17:33 and I continued to study with his mother, 17:35 and I love his mom. 17:37 We had a lot in common. 17:38 She had also been through some abuse and we connected, 17:41 and we continued to study 17:42 and there, you know, came a point 17:44 where I was actually going to church 17:46 on Saturday and Sunday for a very long time. 17:49 Oh, wow. 17:50 Yeah, for a very long time, 17:51 until one day the Lord was just like, 17:53 "Listen, you don't have to do that." 17:54 You know. 17:55 So I rededicated my life to the Lord 17:58 and I got baptized as a Seventh-day Adventist, 18:00 and from there, his wonderful mom... 18:04 He's got a wonderful mother. 18:06 Yeah, that's right. 18:07 She says, 18:09 "Steven, that Tamara is so sweet. 18:11 She is so sweet." 18:13 I said, "Okay, Mom. Okay, Mom." 18:15 But I had already noticed 18:17 how much of a godly 18:18 and Christian woman that she was. 18:21 And it wasn't long after that, 18:23 actually, I was down in Tennessee at the time 18:26 working there 18:28 and actually working with your sister 18:31 and your brother-in-law, 18:34 and I invited her to come down to Tennessee. 18:40 And I proposed to her there. 18:42 And yeah, it was a weird thing. 18:45 We could tell that story some other time. 18:48 'Cause we really didn't date like, you know, 18:50 we both came to understand that 18:54 we needed to do things differently. 18:56 You know, neither one of us, 18:58 truth be told were virgins when we got married, right? 19:01 Because of where we came from in life, 19:02 but we knew that 19:03 if we were going to do things the right way 19:06 that we would just have to do things differently. 19:07 And so we really didn't date. 19:09 Then him asking me to marry him was really, 19:13 you know, 19:14 her response was, 19:16 "But you've never told me he loved me." 19:19 "And here you've asked me to marry you." 19:21 Who does that? Like who does that? 19:23 Which was an interesting thing. Yeah. 19:25 And then I explained to her 19:26 while getting up off of my one knee. 19:29 I explained to her... 19:30 He was so devastated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 19:32 One knee, you know, fireplace was going, 19:35 you know, starlit night, 19:36 we were out at the lodge and had everything I said... 19:39 Had some roses... 19:40 No, no, no roses. 19:42 But actually, I invited her to go for a drive 19:44 so I could show her... 19:46 I was deaning at the time. 19:47 So my boys had gone and started the fire 19:49 and set things up for us. 19:51 So your boys deans at the academy. 19:52 Absolutely, absolutely. 19:54 And so we get out there, everything was just right. 19:57 And I'm on one knee and she's like, 19:59 "But you never said you loved me." 20:00 I'm like, "Okay." Right. 20:03 And I explained to her I said, 20:04 "Listen, you know, 20:06 I've thrown around those words loosely in my life." 20:10 And so I covenant with God that 20:12 I would not just go around telling women that I love them 20:16 or this, that, and the other. 20:18 And I also confessed to her, I said, 20:20 "Tamara, I'm still learning how to love the right way, 20:25 God's way, 20:27 but as much as is within me 20:29 and as much as I can understand what love is, 20:32 I can tell you that I do love you." 20:34 And then she told me she had to go use the bathroom. 20:39 So she disappeared, and left me there. 20:42 And you didn't know what she was... 20:43 I'm like, "Okay." 20:45 Did you say yes or... 20:46 I didn't say yes right away, 20:47 because, you know, I was grappling with, 20:49 dealing with the untruth that I had learned. 20:52 And I had to let God undo that for me. 20:54 'Cause, you know, when we grow up in the world 20:57 and we grew up watching movies and listening to music, 21:00 you think that the way it happens is, 21:03 you know, they are supposed to touch you and kiss you 21:06 and you do all of that stuff, right? 21:07 That's how you know someone loves you. 21:09 And we never did any of that. 21:10 We were friends, you know. 21:12 And the Lord really spoke to me in that bathroom 21:15 and He let me know like, 21:16 "Listen, Tam..." Get back down and say yes. 21:19 And so many words. 21:21 But the Lord really helped me to understand like, 21:22 "Listen, this is different, right? 21:24 And you're gonna have to trust me, you know. 21:26 And this is the thing I did." 21:28 I knew that God was with us. I didn't have any trepidation. 21:32 It was one of the easiest decisions 21:33 actually I've ever made in my life 21:34 to this day, you know? 21:36 And so when the Lord dealt with me in that bathroom, 21:38 I went back downstairs and I said yes. 21:40 Oh, wow. Amen. 21:42 Yeah, yeah. 21:43 And how many years you guys been married? 21:46 Eighteen years. Eighteen years? 21:47 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 21:49 So how many months after you said yes 21:52 or you asked her to marry you that you guys got married? 21:55 It was within the next year that we got married. 21:57 Yeah. Yeah. 21:58 'Cause you knew? Yeah. 21:59 Yeah, I knew. Committed. 22:01 Yeah. 22:02 He asked my parents, you know, he got their permission. 22:04 And my parents... 22:05 They knew before she did. 22:06 Yeah, he asked... 22:08 They almost blew it because they called her over, 22:09 prayed over her, your life is gonna be changing. 22:12 And you're like? And we just want... 22:14 And she's like, "What are y'all talking about?" 22:15 And so... 22:17 But my parents were really thankful, 22:18 you know, my parents were not Adventist. 22:20 You know, to see him step out and do something like that 22:23 to show respect to them, 22:24 and involve them in the process. 22:27 And my parents already loved him anyway, 22:28 'cause he was just such a gentleman, 22:30 you know, so it was a blessing. 22:32 So you all made some good choices. 22:36 By the grace of God. 22:37 You know, really into your relationship 22:38 and into your marriage, 22:40 so does that mean since you said I do 22:42 when you got married 22:43 that the rest of the journey has been a bed of roses? 22:46 Oh, no, no. No. 22:48 So what are some of the struggles 22:50 that couples would face 22:51 or that we encounter in relationship? 22:52 Yes. Okay, okay. 22:56 One of them is 23:00 we talked with doing pre-marriage counseling 23:02 with couples. 23:04 We talk about unrealistic expectations. 23:05 Yes. 23:07 It's one of the one of the top reasons 23:08 why couples end up getting divorce. 23:11 My expectations were this 23:13 and my expectations weren't met. 23:15 So I'll pull an example, 23:17 we like to throw ourselves under the bus, 23:19 rather than... 23:20 We can tell a lot of stories about a lot of people. 23:22 Maybe we'll share some. No names, please. 23:24 But we'll share our own. 23:27 When my wife came 23:28 and she had come back from Walmart 23:32 with one of our girlfriends, Susie. 23:35 And Susie had asked her to take a pregnancy test 23:38 while they're at the Walmart. 23:39 'Cause I had the flu, that's what I knew. 23:41 I had the flu. She wasn't feeling well. 23:43 So... 23:44 But your girlfriend thought you might be pregnant? 23:46 Absolutely, absolutely. 23:47 And so she gets there and she calls me outside, 23:51 "I've got to talk to you." We're sitting in a minivan. 23:54 And she's got a brown paper bag. 23:55 Outside of Walmart? 23:57 No, no, no, no, 23:58 this is back on the campus at Laurelbrook. 24:00 And I'm thinking maybe my wife has turned 24:02 to whiskey or drugs or something like that. 24:04 Holy, no. 24:05 But she's got this paper bag. 24:07 And she's like, "I've got something to tell you." 24:08 I'm like, "Okay, what's going on here?" 24:10 But then she pulls out the pregnancy test 24:13 and she gives it to me. 24:15 And, you know, as a man 24:17 who's never seen a pregnancy test before, 24:19 I'm like, "What is this?" 24:21 And she's like, you know, 24:22 she gives me the box or something, 24:24 I can't exactly remember. 24:25 But here's what happened. 24:29 Nothing. Silence. 24:31 When she explained to me what was going on, 24:33 I sat there and I stared out of the front window of the van 24:37 that we were sitting in. 24:39 And, you know, my wife is devastated 24:44 because for her, 24:45 her expectation is we're married, 24:49 we're Christians. 24:50 This is supposed to be an exciting thing. 24:53 She thought you'd be excited. Absolutely. 24:56 And see the other thing about that story was that 24:58 again, as I said, 24:59 I lived in the world for a long time. 25:01 And unfortunately, when I lived in the world, 25:03 I actually had gotten pregnant. 25:05 And I had had an abortion. 25:06 And so coming from that experience, 25:08 giving my life to God, and now being married, 25:11 you know, you know that 25:12 this is the opposite experience to that, right? 25:15 That was so depressing and so harsh and so horrible. 25:17 And so now I'm expecting balloons and... 25:20 You know? Yeah. 25:22 And here we are in the car and so. 25:23 But this is something that he doesn't know 25:25 is happening in my mind at that moment. 25:28 Yeah. 25:29 And while that's going on in her mind, 25:31 I am just being flooded with an array of emotions. 25:37 Am I going to be a good father? 25:40 Am I ready to be a father? 25:43 You know, like what is... 25:44 How is this going to change or affect our lives? 25:48 And just am I going to be able to provide 25:50 and all of these other questions 25:52 that are flooding my mind, 25:53 so I'm being overwhelmed with that. 25:55 And she has an expectation for how I should respond, 25:59 not even understanding what's going on in my mind. 26:01 And I think it may have been 26:03 later on that evening or maybe the next day, 26:06 when I settled in and it was kind of like, 26:09 "Wow, God is in control." 26:11 You've been trying to follow God 26:12 up to this point, 26:13 He's got you, you know? 26:15 And so I was excited and I'm like, 26:16 "Yes! You know, we're gonna have a baby. 26:19 I wonder if it's a boy or girl." 26:21 But by that time, Tamara had kind of... 26:24 You kind of shut down? Yeah, I did. 26:25 She kind of shut down. And so... 26:29 That was one of the first challenges. 26:31 By the way, our plan was that 26:33 we wouldn't have our first child for two years. 26:35 Two years. That was the plan. 26:36 Right, Right. 26:38 But this was like a month after our... 26:40 Our wedding. After our wedding. 26:41 Well, yeah. 26:43 And so that expectations thing, 26:46 it hit us early on in our marriage. 26:49 And it was only by the grace of God 26:51 that we were able to deal with it. 26:54 And God was good. 26:56 That was the first of many challenges. 26:58 Yeah. Yeah. 27:00 So what did you learn from that then? 27:02 Because obviously communication then, right, 27:04 because a month into marriage, 27:06 wow, this wasn't according to our "plan," 27:08 two years, you're pregnant. 27:10 Yeah. 27:11 And the communication aspect, 27:13 so how did you deal with that part? 27:14 Like how did you know what each other were thinking? 27:16 Yeah, well, we did. That was the problem. 27:18 We did, we did. 27:19 And I wasn't able to get a hold of myself and say, 27:23 "Now listen here, sweetheart, 27:25 this is what I was experiencing and this is what you are..." 27:28 That's not how it went. 27:30 And it actually was several years later 27:33 that we actually were communicating. 27:36 And she shared what was going on in her mind, 27:39 and I was able to share 27:40 what was going on in my mind at the time. 27:43 And, you know, 27:45 actually, it was about a year and a half later 27:49 'cause our second child Abigail, 27:52 she came two years after her brother. 27:56 Not... 27:57 Maybe two years and two months, something like that. 28:00 So in the build up to that, 28:03 we were able to converse and talk. 28:06 And, you know, we didn't want to repeat 28:09 the emotional chasm that had come between us 28:14 and the birth of our first child. 28:16 So we were like, 28:17 "Man, what happened? 28:18 What was that really all about?" 28:20 And so one of the lessons that we learned was 28:24 that she's not a mind reader and I'm not a mind reader. 28:27 That's right. Right. 28:28 And if she has an expectation, 28:32 she should make that expectation know. 28:35 She should let me know. 28:37 And if I have expectations, 28:39 I should communicate those clearly to her 28:42 because it's not fair for her 28:44 to hold me responsible for something 28:46 that she's never clearly communicated to me. 28:49 And likewise, it's not fair for me 28:50 to hold her responsible 28:52 for something that I've not clearly communicated to her. 28:55 And the thing about the expectations too 28:57 is that there are some times 28:58 when you express those things and they're unrealistic, 29:01 but you don't know it until you talk to the person. 29:04 It's fair to let the person say, 29:05 "You know what, I hear you, 29:07 but I don't think I'm going to be able to do that, 29:08 you know, or I don't know 29:10 if I'm going to be able to fulfill, 29:12 you know, that expectation. 29:13 Let's talk about it, you know?" 29:15 Well, that's an area I may need to grow into. 29:17 Yeah. 29:19 Because and this is something else 29:21 we talk about, 29:23 you know, the culture of her home 29:25 was different from the culture of my home. 29:26 Okay. Yeah. 29:28 And obviously, when we get married, 29:29 I'm automatically believing that 29:32 we're going to do things 29:33 the way that things were done in my home, 29:35 and she's automatically thinking 29:37 that we're going to do things 29:39 the way that they were done in her home. 29:40 So we come together 29:42 and, you know, 29:43 she's wondering why isn't he doing things this way, 29:46 and I'm wondering. 29:48 And we are biased. 29:49 I think the way that things were done in my home 29:51 are the best. 29:53 Yeah. 29:54 And she believes the same thing. 29:55 And so communicating and working through 29:58 what we're gonna do. 30:00 And people just assume, you know, I think we all do it. 30:02 People would look at us and say, 30:04 'cause we do it to other people 30:05 that we grew up in the same city, 30:08 you know, in the same area. 30:09 And for goodness sake, 30:11 we are the same ethnic background, 30:12 but do we have the same culture. 30:14 No, we don't. 30:15 We grew up in two different cultural contexts in our home 30:17 because every home has a cultural context, 30:19 how you speak to each other, how you deal with conflict, 30:22 how you resolve conflict, how you communicate, 30:25 it all is there in that home. 30:27 And so it could be drastically different, 30:29 you know? 30:30 Do you say there is... 30:32 Speaking of communication, 30:33 is there one communication style 30:35 that we should all learn to adapt to 30:37 or can people have different communication styles? 30:40 Is there like one correct communication 30:42 way to communicate 30:44 or how should we deal with them? 30:47 That's a good question. 30:48 I would say... 30:49 Let me try to frame this answer 30:52 in a way that kind of actually answers the question. 30:56 There are different communication styles. 31:02 And each one of us... 31:04 And I'll use us as an example again, 31:07 Tamara came with her communication style 31:10 and I came with my communication style. 31:13 In our family, what we've done, by the grace of God, 31:17 is we've actually formed a new communication style. 31:21 So just like she mentioned every family has a culture, 31:25 so our family has a culture 31:27 and we have a language or a way that we communicate. 31:30 And so rather than saying that there's one right way 31:33 or wrong way to do it, 31:36 when couples come together 31:38 or when people have relationships, 31:40 there have to be things within their relationship 31:43 that they build together, 31:44 I'll try to give an example of that. 31:46 And there was a time 31:52 when we were just laughing, giggling, 31:55 and playing with each other. 31:57 And out of Tamara's mouth comes the word... 32:00 Shut up. 32:01 And all of a sudden, everything stopped. 32:03 Everything. And I... 32:05 So you're having a great time, you are laughing... 32:07 I have. I was living my best life. Yes. 32:09 And you say, shut up. Yes. 32:11 And I turned to her and I said, "What did you just say?" 32:14 And I was like, I said, "Shut up." 32:18 And she could tell by the look of my face that 32:21 this was not okay, but it was so out of place 32:23 because we're just laughing and having a great time. 32:26 And I said, 32:27 "Well, listen, in my house you know at best, 32:33 we would ask someone to be quiet, 32:35 but it's extremely rude and obnoxious 32:39 to tell someone to shut up." 32:42 And so we did not... 32:43 We were not allowed to do that in my home. 32:45 And she said, 32:46 "Well, in my home 32:48 we told each other to shut up all the time." 32:50 And probably much worse. 32:52 And either we were joking or we were mad or whatever, 32:55 but it was just a part of the way 32:56 that we communicated. 32:57 So right then and there, 32:59 she and I sat down and we had a conversation. 33:03 I let her know that this was, you know, this had a lot of... 33:08 It had a connotation for him and it did for us. 33:10 Different connotation for me. 33:11 And then we had to decide 33:13 are we going to do this in our home? 33:15 And what our decision was is that, 33:17 no, we're not going to use 33:18 the word or the phrase, shut up, 33:21 in our home. 33:22 So that's kind of how we developed 33:24 a different language 33:26 and how we are still in the process 33:28 really of developing a different culture 33:30 or communication style for our family. 33:33 So everyone brings something, there are some good things, 33:36 there are some bad things. 33:38 But when you come together, 33:39 whether it's in a work environment, 33:41 whether it's in a marriage... 33:42 Church. 33:43 Or in a church setting, 33:45 you can formulate a different communication style. 33:47 Yeah. 33:48 So what about conflict resolution? 33:50 I think you used the word conflict. 33:51 I mean, that's in, you know, family relationships, 33:54 marriage, church, school, work. 33:58 Conflict resolution. 33:59 Yeah. Yeah. 34:00 What's the best way to handle conflict, 34:02 let's say within the marriage, maybe within a family? 34:03 Wow. 34:04 Within the family and within a marriage, 34:06 conflict resolution is, 34:08 I think that's one of the foundational things 34:10 that you learn very early, 34:12 even when it comes to our children. 34:14 You know, this is something even to this day, 34:16 you know, we're constantly trying to teach them, 34:19 you know, and coach them through. 34:20 You know, when you get angry, when you get upset, 34:22 we always tell our kids that 34:24 anger is a secondary emotion, 34:25 right? 34:26 Okay. 34:28 There's normally something else that is there 34:30 that anger takes advantage of. 34:32 And so what do you need to do 34:34 in order to be able to express that. 34:36 And so starting early in teaching them 34:39 how to talk and that is safe to talk. 34:43 You know, in some homes 34:44 they were never allowed to say how they feel. 34:47 You know, some people grow up in homes 34:48 where, you know, to even speak up 34:50 and say this hurts me is offensive, 34:54 you know, and so they're not even allowed to do it. 34:56 So there is no communication. 34:57 Therefore, you cannot resolve any conflict at all. 35:00 Yeah. Yeah. 35:01 Yeah, there are also two 35:06 extreme responses to conflict. 35:09 One is fight and the other one is flight. 35:10 Yeah. 35:12 When it comes to conflict, 35:13 some people are more than happy to get into it. 35:15 They're like, "Bring it on, bring it on." 35:17 Other people will do 35:19 everything in their power to avoid it. 35:21 Yeah. 35:22 And one of the one of the principles 35:24 that we try to share is, 35:26 1 Corinthians 10:31, where it says, 35:29 whether therefore you eat, 35:31 whether you drink or whatsoever you do, 35:32 do all to the glory of God. 35:35 Conflict is an opportunity for us 35:37 to actually give glory to God. 35:40 And that's a... 35:42 It was a new concept to us. Yeah, that is. 35:44 Well, we found out about it, but we've learned that. 35:48 When we look at conflict like that, 35:50 instead of conflict being a war between Tamara and myself, 35:54 conflict instead provides an opportunity for me 35:57 to glorify God. 35:58 And it may mean that I have to surrender 36:02 and submit my desires, 36:03 or it may mean that she has to surrender 36:05 and submit her desires, 36:07 or it may mean that we need to communicate more. 36:10 But whatever the case may be, 36:12 we first need to see conflict 36:14 as an opportunity to glorify God. 36:17 Yeah. 36:18 And one of the hook words to conflict is to confront. 36:21 And again, these are words that I think for so long 36:24 has gotten really a bad reputation. 36:27 But in order to grow, in order to mature, 36:29 in order to become 36:31 whatever it is that God wants us to become, 36:32 we have to be able to confront things. 36:34 And so again, in a lot of areas, 36:38 being in ministry is one of those areas 36:40 and, of course, being in churches. 36:41 You see that oftentimes, 36:43 we try to use God's word 36:45 as an excuse for us not to confront, 36:47 you know, humble thyself. 36:49 And that's good, do those things. 36:50 But if change is gonna happen, 36:52 you have to be able to confront what's there. 36:54 And so confronting is not a bad thing, 36:57 conflict is not a bad thing, 36:58 as long as you do it to glorify God. 37:01 Let me put this caveat in for somebody 37:05 who's slipping their boxing gloves on right now. 37:07 You know what's gonna happen. 37:09 You know, the wisdom and the Spirit of God 37:14 need to lead us and guide us 37:16 into the best ways 37:19 to be able to bring glory to God. 37:22 The Bible says in one sentence that 37:25 it is a good thing for us to overlook things. 37:28 Yeah. Right? 37:30 So there's some times when you have been offended 37:34 or things have been done to you, 37:36 and your immediate response is I need to tell them. 37:39 Yeah. 37:40 But it may be, 37:42 and this is why we need to be led by the Spirit of God, 37:44 that this is not the time for you to confront, 37:48 this is the time for you to overlook. 37:50 And so again, going back to that primary principle, 37:54 Lord, how can I bring glory to You 37:57 in this situation? 37:58 And it may be, God says, 38:00 you need to go to speak to your brother 38:01 or your sister 38:02 right now about this thing, 38:04 or you need to speak to them next week, 38:05 or God may say, 38:07 overlook it this time, you know? 38:10 That's powerful. 38:11 I was thinking back to our first year of marriage, 38:13 'cause we're 17 years next month. 38:15 That's right. 38:16 And we entered marriage, this is telling on us now. 38:20 I should say, I entered it 38:23 thinking that I would communicate well. 38:26 And it's just strange how you think that. 38:28 But you just think, okay, Jill, 38:29 you are verbal and you know how to talk 38:31 and I'll be able to communicate 38:32 and maybe Greg's gonna struggle with that. 38:35 I don't know, it was just a mental thought. 38:37 And I really didn't know. 38:38 But we entered our first year of marriage 38:40 and I remember many times, me thinking, 38:45 "I should overlook, I should not do conflict, 38:47 I should may not even knowing 38:49 how to express what I felt inside, 38:51 not even understanding or thinking 38:54 the Christian thing to do 38:56 is I shouldn't be feeling upset, 38:58 or I shouldn't be feeling hurt by that 39:00 or I shouldn't be whatever." 39:01 So then I would just stuff and stuff again. 39:05 And Greg was very good at, 39:07 "Okay, let's talk about it, let's address this, let's..." 39:11 You know, so I'd go like a whole month in stuff 39:13 and then I'd have a little meltdown and cry a bit. 39:16 And he would say, "What in the world!" 39:18 Oh, well this and this and this. 39:20 Well, there's a whole bunch. 39:21 So I learned, 39:22 "Jill, you need to communicate. 39:24 And it's okay to talk about that stuff." 39:26 You know, that was... 39:28 I think expectations. 39:29 You know, you're talking about that, 39:31 you know, Jill and I be, 39:32 you know, we're gonna have a nice evening, 39:33 we're gonna go out to eat, right? 39:35 So then she's like, 39:36 "Where would you like to eat? 39:37 You know, where would you like to eat?" 39:39 Well, you know... You guys do that. 39:40 And so then I'm like, you know, let's go to... 39:42 I'm going to... 39:43 Well, maybe I shouldn't mention restaurants. 39:44 So anyway, let's go to this particular restaurant. 39:46 And then it's like, 39:49 "Aren't you happy 39:50 that we're going to this restaurant?" 39:52 Okay. 39:53 I thought you said wherever. 39:54 And then she's like, "Yeah, wherever you want to go." 39:56 Well, I thought you didn't really care. 39:57 Well, so then what ended up supposed to be kind of a nice, 40:00 you know, evening. 40:01 You know, it can kind of be a little bit awkward. 40:03 Just a bit. Yeah. 40:05 It's interesting, though, the expectation sometimes like, 40:07 you know, in my mind, I'm thinking, 40:09 "Okay, she doesn't really care where we're going to eat, 40:11 so let me pick this one." 40:12 And in her mind she's thinking, 40:14 "You know exactly the restaurant I want to go 40:15 and why don't you pick that restaurant, you know?" 40:18 So it's just interesting. 40:19 And then dealing with that conflict. 40:20 Yes. 40:22 And for us, 40:23 it really ends up being the communication aspect 40:25 'cause we're not the type, 40:26 neither one of our sides of the family 40:27 when we have a discussion raised voices, 40:29 you know, were more just discuss. 40:31 You know, but for us we didn't always discuss. 40:34 And so we found that was very important 40:36 for our marriage was to communicate. 40:39 Yes. 40:40 You know, I'm thinking about you guys 40:42 for finding out you're pregnant. 40:43 You know, you're just... 40:44 She doesn't know what you're thinking. 40:46 You know, you don't know what she's thinking. 40:47 But yeah, but then built the communicate 40:48 and share that's we can grow. 40:50 It's really a big deal. 40:53 I was thinking as you were talking, 40:55 because my wife and I are both... 40:59 We both have passive aggressive tendencies. 41:02 Yeah. 41:03 That means that, 41:05 like you mentioned in your families that, 41:08 like, I'm not a loud person. 41:10 I'm not going to try to over talk, 41:12 I'm not going to shout, I'm not gonna call names. 41:16 That's just not the way things are gonna happen. 41:18 Yes. And my wife... 41:20 Me, I'm loud and... 41:23 Lively. 41:25 But over the years... 41:27 God has been good. Yes, God has been good. 41:28 So both of us will tend to say, 41:31 "Okay, let me back off. Let me back off." 41:34 And in those instances what happens is that 41:38 what we've suppressed, 41:40 it ends up coming up and some... 41:43 Most unopportunately. 41:44 Right. And so... 41:45 Right, I've been pressing down, pressing down all week. 41:48 And then, you know, 41:50 when she comes in 41:51 and I ask her a question and I, 41:54 "Oh, why did you make beans again?" 41:57 And she just... 41:59 You know, and it's like where did that come from? 42:02 And it's not the question about the beans, 42:04 but it's all the suppressing 42:06 without actually letting me know 42:08 how she's feeling. 42:09 So the passive is gone, 42:11 and now is the rest of the time. 42:14 Yeah, yeah. 42:15 So you noticed on the screen, 42:17 we're putting up the little lower third, 42:19 we call it for questions and comments, 42:21 'cause the second hour, 42:22 we're only 15 minutes from the second hour 42:24 where we're hoping to in the second hour 42:26 to be able to get some questions. 42:27 Of course, Pastor Steve and his wife Tammy, 42:30 do marriage seminars. 42:31 And so the Lord has given them a lot of wisdom 42:34 and they've experienced a lot, and counseled with, 42:36 I don't know, many, many couples and families. 42:39 So we want to encourage you, 42:40 you know, live@3abn.tv 42:43 or you can call us at 618-627-4651. 42:47 So I don't know 42:49 if we can put you on the spot for a moment 42:50 and see if maybe we could role-play, 42:53 maybe some sort of conflict. 42:55 Wow. I don't know if... 42:56 What do you do in your marriage seminars 42:58 that would be something... 42:59 Or role-play something else. 43:01 But if you could role-play something for us, 43:04 kind of show us 43:05 what it would look like worked out. 43:08 Go ahead. You start up. Okay. 43:12 Oh, man. 43:14 You know, I've been working on this website 43:16 for the last couple of days and there's just been so much. 43:19 But you know what, I'm finally to the point 43:21 where I think I'm done, you know? 43:22 Oh, let me take a look at it for you. 43:24 Let me take a look at it. I said... 43:25 Yeah, okay, but I just said, I'm... 43:27 I just want to look at it and see how it looks. 43:28 Let me look at it. 43:30 Okay? Okay, here you go. 43:31 Okay, here. Oh, what is this? 43:33 This is a video? Yeah, that... 43:35 Oh, then let me press play. 43:37 Whoa! I'm not quite... 43:40 Why did you put that music there? 43:43 I'm not done yet. 43:44 You know, I'm just... 43:46 Why did you choose that music? 43:47 I like it. 43:49 I thought that it would be okay. 43:50 Yeah. Oh, okay. 43:52 And by the way, you misspelled this right here. 43:53 Excuse me. That's okay. Thank you. 43:56 Hey. 43:57 I'm just trying to help. Mm-mm. 43:59 No, that's okay. 44:02 I can't believe this. 44:03 Honestly, I spent all this time working on this thing 44:05 and he's just gonna come along 44:07 and just undo everything that I did everything. 44:10 I can't do anything right, but that's okay, that's okay. 44:13 Just like last week when I talked about 44:14 going to Taco Bell and, you know, it's okay. 44:17 I'm just... No. 44:18 Tamara, are you all right? 44:20 I'm fine. 44:23 Well, you... 44:25 You took the computer away 44:27 and now you're not saying anything to me. 44:28 I'm saying. 44:29 I'm talking to you, I'm sitting right here. 44:31 But you haven't said anything to me. 44:32 I'm fine. I'm talking. I'm good. How are you? 44:36 What just happened? I cannot believe him. 44:39 What just happened? 44:44 You know that just happened the day actually. 44:47 So... That was just... 44:49 It's a work in progress. Breaking news. 44:51 That was just the way. 44:52 And I'm gonna say that happens in many families. 44:56 Thank you for being authentic. Yeah, that's how... 44:57 I just want to say that 44:59 some people hide behind the pastor thing. 45:01 Okay, "I'm a pastor, I'm a pastor's wife. 45:03 I work in women's ministry and we have it all together, " 45:06 but you guys are authentic. 45:09 And I think that really helps people to realize, 45:11 "Okay, this is me too." 45:12 And then how can God work in it? 45:14 I'm sorry, I interrupted you. 45:15 No, no, no, I was just gonna ask what happened? 45:17 What happened? 45:18 So I'm so thankful to have learned, 45:22 learning it and doing it two different things. 45:25 But it's just been recently, 45:26 probably within the last this year 45:28 that we've reached a point where we realized, 45:30 you know what, the minute that something happens, 45:32 analyze your feelings, right? 45:34 So I had to stop for a minute when it was happening 45:36 because I was having self-talk. 45:38 We talk to people a lot about that. 45:39 The self-talk 45:41 when you saw me doing this was up here. 45:42 It wasn't to him. 45:43 It was to myself. 45:45 That is one of the most dangerous things that we do. 45:47 We don't talk to the person, we talk to ourselves. 45:50 And you know what the Bible says, 45:51 the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, 45:54 and above all thing, who can know it. 45:56 And so having that conversation with myself, 45:59 drawing from past experiences. 46:01 You know, sometimes we don't want to let people 46:03 live out of the shadow, 46:05 you know, and that's what was happening. 46:07 I was having a moment to myself, 46:09 I was speaking lies to myself. 46:11 All he did was ask a question, 46:13 he did not tell me that what I did was horrible, 46:16 he did not tell me that he wasn't grateful. 46:18 It was none of those things. 46:19 And, you know, I brought that to the table, 46:22 he didn't give that to me. 46:23 That was something I actually brought into the marriage. 46:24 And what I mean by that is 46:26 is the struggle with self-doubt, 46:28 the struggle with being good enough, you know. 46:31 And so that is something 46:32 I'm constantly having to give to God all the time daily, 46:36 because if I don't, 46:37 I'll fall into the trap of that. 46:39 Every time he says something to me, 46:40 or sometimes my children will say, 46:42 "Mom, are you making that again?" 46:44 You know, and I'm like, 46:45 "Ah, these kids, they're ungrateful," 46:46 you know? And that's really not what's happening. 46:48 Right. 46:49 Now the truth be told, 46:51 I have been hypercritical before. 46:52 Well, that's true too. 46:53 And I have been judgmental before, 46:56 but what Tammy, 46:59 what she was referring to when she said, 47:01 allowing people to live outside of their shadow, 47:04 what she referred to, 47:05 what she was referring to is 47:07 just because I've done something in the past, 47:11 we have to be able to give one another an opportunity 47:13 to be different today, right? 47:16 Oh, that's good. 47:17 And not interpret 47:18 what they're saying or doing today 47:21 based on what they've done in the past. 47:24 And so if we don't do that, 47:27 then we're communicating with the person shadow 47:29 and not with the real individual. 47:33 And we're not allowing them to grow, 47:34 not allowing them to mature, so forth and so on. 47:37 So I have to claim some responsibility. 47:40 But the beautiful thing about what happened today is 47:43 once her claws retracted, 47:45 and her fangs were drawn back 47:49 then I approached her and I said, 47:51 "Tamara, I said something." 47:53 Something just happened and I had to reassure her. 47:55 That listen, 47:57 I said and I had to speak in affirming ways. 47:59 I said, 48:01 "Tamara, listen, I appreciate everything that you've done. 48:04 And I know you've put a lot of hard work into this, 48:06 and I know that you have been, 48:08 you know, pressed for a deadline 48:09 and so forth and so on. 48:11 I was not trying to be critical or anything. 48:14 And I know I can be that way, but that wasn't my intention. 48:18 I was really just asking a question." 48:20 And when we talk like that 48:23 then she was disarmed by the grace of God 48:26 and the movement of the Holy Spirit 48:28 and the retinue of angels that drew near to her. 48:31 And she said... 48:34 She began to unpack and share, 48:37 you know, this is what I was feeling 48:39 and this is what I was thinking, 48:40 and so forth and so on. 48:42 And it worked out 48:44 or else she might be sitting over there tonight 48:46 rather than sitting over here or something like that. 48:49 But you know there's got to be trust 48:51 then in a relationship. 48:52 Yes. 48:54 Because what you're telling her she could be like, 48:56 "Ah, he doesn't mean any of that. 48:58 That is not exactly he wasn't thinking that at all." 49:00 So you have to believe that what he's telling you. 49:03 How do you believe a spouse then? 49:05 Because there's someone that's watching right now says, 49:07 "I have no trust this man or this, " 49:09 whatever it can be telling me this and... 49:11 Not at all. 49:12 How do you build trust? 49:14 Like you guys have that someone can say at home, 49:17 "Wow, I would love to have that." 49:18 How do you do that? 49:20 I think there are two things. 49:21 I think, one is allowing a person, right, 49:23 to become different, 49:25 knowing what their track record is. 49:26 And then the other aspect of it is 49:28 allowing God to stand in their place, 49:30 allowing Jesus to stand in their place 49:32 while they're being made. 49:34 And that's so important, 49:35 because none of us come into any relationship 49:37 completely whole, right? 49:39 We constantly need Jesus 49:41 to be renewing us every single day. 49:43 And the funny thing about relationships is, 49:45 I believe one of the reasons why God created marriage 49:48 is, to force us to grow and to mature in areas 49:51 that we otherwise would not. 49:53 And so I know that there are people 49:55 who go through experiences and people have hurt you, 49:58 you know, over and over again. 50:00 There are boundaries for sure that I set. 50:01 And when we talk about abuse 50:03 and when we talk about 50:04 those particular things, definitely, 50:05 I would never encourage someone 50:07 to just remain in that situation. 50:08 That's good. 50:10 But I believe when it comes to character defects, 50:12 trusting that you're taking it to God 50:14 and allowing that person to grow. 50:18 And I have to remember all the things 50:19 that he has done right, you know? 50:21 I would be lying 50:23 if I said that he's just a hypercritical person. 50:25 No, he's not, you know. 50:27 We have 18 years' worth of proof 50:29 that there have been some great moments, 50:31 you know, many great moments 50:32 and have to draw from those, 50:33 you know, and have to remind myself 50:35 speak truth to myself, you know? 50:37 Yes. 50:39 Yeah. Yeah. 50:40 I think another thing that go along with that 50:44 in terms of trust, 50:46 and you mentioned a powerful thing 50:48 about allowing, 50:51 allowing Jesus to stand in. 50:55 And not only that, but trust takes time. 50:58 Oh, yeah. It takes time to build. 51:00 And a lot of times we want our spouse 51:05 or our friend, our parent, our child, 51:08 we want them to change immediately. 51:11 Right. 51:12 You know, I told you that 51:13 this offended me 15 minutes ago. 51:17 And so in the next hour and in the next weeks to come, 51:21 I expect never to see this again. 51:22 Because... 51:24 And this goes back to something 51:25 at time when I talked to couples 51:27 about and anyone that we're talking to 51:29 in terms of relationship. 51:31 And that is for us, we were 23 when we got married. 51:36 I was 23, she was 22. 51:38 And it took her 22 years to become who she was, 51:43 me 23 years. 51:45 In one year, 51:46 we were not going to completely and totally become new people, 51:51 right? 51:53 There is a process involved with that. 51:56 And the formation of character, habits, 51:58 and so forth and so on. 52:00 And so there's patience. 52:02 Trust takes time and it takes patience 52:06 with an individual 52:07 who you know is trying to change. 52:10 I always laugh because 52:12 we believe that sanctification takes a lifetime. 52:15 We're told that it takes a lifetime. 52:16 But when it comes to marriage and conflict and relationships, 52:19 we're like, no that takes three weeks. 52:22 You know, you got three weeks. 52:24 Come on. Yeah, right, right. 52:25 Patience with each other. 52:27 Those unrealistic expectations. 52:29 Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. 52:31 There it is again. 52:33 Yeah, absolutely. 52:34 So what about lies? 52:35 You had talked about the self-talk, 52:37 the negative self-talk, 52:38 the lies that we believe from childhood. 52:40 How do you know 52:41 what's the truth and what's a lie? 52:42 How do you know if you are giving yourself 52:45 the negative self-talk 52:47 or if this is maybe 52:48 no, this is a conviction from the Holy Spirit 52:50 and I should be following this? 52:52 How do you differentiate between that? 52:53 Yeah, that's an interesting question. 52:56 The way I define faith 52:58 and we share this when we're doing seminars 53:00 and whatnot is that 53:02 faith is believing what God says about you 53:06 and what He has for you, 53:09 and accepting those things 53:11 as though they are your very own thoughts 53:15 about yourself, right? 53:17 And that's challenging. 53:20 So in order to be able to differentiate 53:22 between what's a truth, 53:24 what's a lie and what's the truth, 53:26 my wife used to work in the vault in the bank. 53:28 And they taught her 53:30 how to identify counterfeit money. 53:33 And, of course, 53:34 they gave her the legitimate bills. 53:38 And she got so good, 53:39 even though she was dealing 53:40 with hundreds of thousands of dollars a day 53:42 were just on touch. 53:44 She was able to identify that this is a counterfeit bill. 53:48 So what I would say is 53:50 the way for us to be able to identify the lies 53:55 is to first acquaint ourselves 53:57 with what God says about us and to us, 54:01 and what He says He has for us. 54:03 And as we are constantly repeating that 54:05 we'll say, wait a minute. 54:07 This doesn't sound like what God has said 54:10 that He has for me. 54:11 This doesn't sound like who God says that I am. 54:15 Yeah. 54:17 And that is the way I believe that we can differentiate 54:21 between what is truth and what are the enemies' lies. 54:26 Lies that we can even believe about ourselves. 54:29 I have a story if I can share it with you? 54:31 Oh, yeah. And I share this. 54:32 I was six years old, 54:35 walking down the street with my cousin 54:38 and my older brother, older cousin, older brother. 54:40 And there was a little girl that I liked, 54:42 who lived down the street the way that, 54:44 you know, a six-year-old 54:46 likes another little six-year-old little girl. 54:48 She had ponytails 54:49 and wore dresses like 54:50 Little House on the Prairie or something. 54:52 And my older cousin said to this little girl, 54:55 she's hanging out of the window, 54:56 we're walking down the street, 54:58 "Hey, I got something to tell you." 54:59 She says, "What?" 55:01 And he says, "My cousin Steven likes you." 55:04 And the little girl, she turns towards me. 55:07 And it was like slow motion, you know, just... 55:10 And her eyes meet mine and she looks at me. 55:14 And she says, "Ooh! He's ugly." 55:18 Oh, wow. 55:19 And I just was crushed. 55:21 And I turned... 55:23 You know, the dust was kicking up 55:24 and I ran, and I just cried, but a profound thing happened. 55:29 I began to see myself 55:31 the way that little girl saw me. 55:33 And I thought that the world saw me 55:35 the way that little girl saw me. 55:37 Fast forward, I'm 14 years old, 55:39 in my first year in high school. 55:42 And I'm standing at the bus stop, 55:44 and a group of little girls are standing around 55:46 talking and whispering and giggling. 55:48 One of the little girls comes up to me and says... 55:51 She is not little, she's a teenager. 55:53 She says, "Is your name Steven Conway?" 55:55 I was like, "Well, yes, I am Steven Conway." 55:57 She says, 55:58 "Did you go to and she named my elementary school?" 56:00 I said, "Yes." 56:02 Were you in and she named my kindergarten teacher? 56:04 And I said, "Yes, that's the class I was in." 56:07 She turned around, looked at all the girls. 56:10 And she said, 56:11 "All of the girls used to love Steven Conway 56:15 when he was in kindergarten, right?" 56:17 Same year, different bus stop different girl, 56:22 "Excuse me, are you Steven Conway?" 56:23 "Yes. I'm Steven Conway." 56:24 Did you go to another school? 56:26 I'd gone to, so forth and so on. 56:27 Did you know da-da... 56:29 Don't you remember me? I was in your class. 56:30 No, I don't remember you. 56:32 And I didn't say this, but in my mind, 56:34 why would I remember any girls 56:36 because no girls are interested in me. 56:38 Wow. 56:39 The profound thing that happened to me is 56:41 the reality that I had accept it, 56:44 the truth, the lie, excuse me, 56:46 that I had chosen to believe 56:48 based on the testimony of this one little girl... 56:52 When you're six. When I was six years old. 56:55 God showed me not only is that a lie today, 56:58 but it's been a lie ever since you first heard it. 57:02 And it profoundly changed the way that I saw myself, 57:07 it profoundly changed the way 57:08 that I believe the world saw me. 57:10 Most importantly, 57:11 it profoundly changed the way that I thought God saw me. 57:15 And so I think it's extremely important, 57:17 because those lies go back a long, long time. 57:20 It sure do. Wow. 57:21 Man, it's powerful. 57:23 I wish we had more time, but we do. 57:24 We have an whole another hour 57:26 to talk with Pastor Steven and his wife, Tammy. 57:28 Thank you so much. 57:30 My heart's been blessed already. 57:31 And we hope and pray 57:32 that you are sending in your questions, 57:35 either emailing them in or calling us here at 3ABN 57:38 because we know that the Lord Jesus wants to heal 57:41 your relationships 57:43 and turn those lies into truth. 57:45 We'll be right back. |
Revised 2021-03-04