¤ ¤
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¤ I want to spend my
life mending broken people ¤
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¤ I want to spend
my life removing pain ¤
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¤ Lord let my words
heal a heart that hurts ¤
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¤ I want to spend my
life mending broken people ¤
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¤ ¤
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Hello friends, welcome again
to another edition of 3ABN Today
00:01:06.53\00:01:10.70
My name is Ryan Day and
as always we are blessed and
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thankful that you are taking
time out of your busy day to
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join us here during this very,
very special hour. Now you may
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be new to 3ABN and obviously we
have people who are joining us
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as repeat viewers and we want to
thank each and every one of you.
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But the Today program has
many different versions of it.
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Sometimes we might have a Today
cooking program where you learn
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about how to cook good
vegetarian meals and maybe a
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Today's music program where
we just sing God's praises and
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maybe a Today Bible Q and A
program where we answer your
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Bible questions or a Today
family worship where we sit
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around the table and worship God
on Sabbath evening and then we
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also have the Today interview
programs where we interview
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people for testimonies and just
to hear what God has done in
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someone's life. But one of my
favorite Today programs is the
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one that's happening right now.
In fact I want to encourage you
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get your family, get your
friends, your enemies as Pastor
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Danny would say, everyone around
the table, around the TV at this
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time. You're going to want to
tune in because during this hour
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we're going to be taking on one
of the most powerful and much
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needed subjects for our
time especially a time as this.
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I want to go ahead and introduce
my guests that are with me today
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and then we're going to set this
up. We're going to dive right
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into this topic. We have across
the table here founder and
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consultant for 3ABN Brother
Danny, I'm going to call you
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Pastor Danny, Brother Danny,
Elder Danny. You're all of those
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things to us. Brother Danny
Shelton. It's always a blessing
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to have you, Brother.
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Thank you. It's good to be here.
It's kind of nice to be on this
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end and not have to worry about
all the intros and all that.
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You're doing a great job. I may
just do this end from now on.
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I don't know. We like to see
you on this end also. But it's a
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blessing to have you. We have
a very special topic in which
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you're...I mean you have
recently contributed a lot to
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this subject that we're going
to be talking about today. And
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we're going to dive into that in
just a moment but I also want to
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introduce our second guest here
that's going to be with us and
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he's coming to us via Skype.
Pastor James Rafferty is not in
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the house but yet
he's in the house.
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There you go.
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Both ways I guess you could say.
How are you, Pastor Rafferty?
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Technology is a blessing. It is
so good to be here with you both
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and especially to deal with this
topic which is so important, so
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vital for our country and
for our church today and of
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course to the world.
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Amen, amen. Well it's a blessing
to have you here with us my
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brother. You know I want to
go ahead and take this time to
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introduce what it is we're going
to be talking about today. One
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of my favorite Today programs,
as I said before, is the 3ABN
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Today Bible topic in which
we take a Bible topic, a much
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needed topic for discussion and
we go deep into the word of God
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We discuss it together as
brothers and sisters in Christ
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and today we're going to be
taking on, man, it's a subject
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that can be controversial. Not
that God wants it to be that way
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Because there's an enemy out
there who is doing everything he
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can to kill, steal and
destroy away the truth regarding
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this subject that we're going to
be talking with today. And how
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I'm going to set this up
as I want to be reminded of a
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powerful sermon Brother Danny
that you preached recently.
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It kind of rocked and shook the
Adventist world, the Christian
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world because it's a topic
that you don't hear many people
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preaching on or talking about
today. It's a very sensitive
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subject and you know in the
culture and times that we live
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As we can see it seems like the
the devil is using the culture,
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he's using this postmodern
mindset to kind of hijack the
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truths of God's word and to
distort and pervert the truths
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of God's word and he's doing
that through many different
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facets of many different aspects
of life. But it seems like the
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church is also getting caught
up in the blurriness of what the
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devil is doing to deceive and to
kill and to destroy this truth.
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You recently preached a sermon,
okay in which you addressed two
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important topics: Homosexuality
and abortion. Now when I say
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that right there automatically
people Huuu, what's going to be
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said, right? What are they
going to say about homosexuality
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What are they going to say about
abortion. But these are two very
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very vital important subjects
that the Bible addresses and God
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recently gave you a sermon at
our recent camp meeting in which
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you addressed and dealt with
these two subjects. And I want
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to start just...before, actually
you know what. Before we get
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started we should probably just
take just a moment to pray as
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we're taking on this very
sensitive topic. Why don't we
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go to the Lord in
prayer at this time. (Yes)
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Father in heaven, Lord we simply
praise you on this day God. We
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uplift you and we say thank you
Lord for the opportunity that we
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have to open the bread of life
and to learn of you, learn of
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you, learn of your will, your
ways and your powerful truths.
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And so Father, we ask that you
rain the Holy Spirit down on our
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hearts and minds and for all of
our viewers at home, Lord, draw
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us to your truth. Not our ideas
Lord, now what the human mind
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might desire but what the Spirit
of the Lord desires for us. And
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so give us your word. May
we rightly divide your word of
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truth right now and may each and
every one of us is drawn closer
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to Jesus Christ and His word.
We simply turn this over to you
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Lord and we ask that your will
be done. In Jesus' Holy Name
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Amen (in unison) amen (again)
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Okay so the Lord laid upon your
heart to preach a sermon and I
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just want to kick this off
by just asking, What was going
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through your mind as you're
preparing the sermon, because
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I've been in a situation many
times as Pastor James has where
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we're always in that prayerful
mentality, Lord what would you
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have me to share? And this is
what the Lord put on your heart
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so walk us through that as the
Lord laid that subject upon your
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heart.
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Absolutely. Seeing so many
changes, not only in the world
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but in the church and I can say
this, I've never studied so long
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and so hard to do a sermon
or talk of any kind. But this I
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knew, I said Lord it really
needed to be right because we
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live in such a time where
everybody's offended about
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everything. I mean, you can
hardly say anything. To some
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people you'll say how are you.
You can't say he or she. You've
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got to say they. I mean there's
people that want to be referred
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to all kinds of things that are
way beyond me. So I said, Lord
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you...I need you to give
me the words I need the people
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to hear what they need
to hear. But on the topic of
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homosexuality and abortion, why
those ones? Because in the last
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several years the devil has been
working where literally...and
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I'm going to say this straight
up to begin with. (Sure) When
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the program's over there are
probably going to be people on
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the left and the right, all
going to be mad at me. I don't
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mean to say that in an arrogant
way, in a prideful way. I'm just
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saying what we want to talk
about today is what the Bible
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says about truth. So we really
don't care what the ones on the
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far-right say, the ones on
the far left say. So we're just
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really going to talk about the
truth today. So when it comes to
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the homosexual community it's
like I'm going to use the word
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that they use often. It seems in
the last several years they have
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bullied their way into
our church because everybody's
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afraid to offend someone that
you don't want to say that they
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come to church and well, hey,
I want to hold an office in the
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church. You know, yes, I'm gay
but I was born that way, I can't
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help it so people don't want to
say no. It's like well this is
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so offensive you know too...how
do we do this? And so with me,
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I mean, if you look at this,
now I've thought, from a common
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sense angle, Ryan if I came to
your church and said Hey look,
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and I've mentioned this a time
or two before, I don't know if
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on air or not, but if I came to
your church and say I'd like to
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get a job, I'd like to be your
treasurer. And you say, Oh great
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Now I'll admit I'm a thief but
you know my father was one. It's
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just kind of something I do
but I really want to be your
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treasurer. You're not going to
have a problem offending me and
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saying no we're not going to
allow you to be the treasurer.
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If I say look I really want
to teach your kids but you know
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I have a little trouble with
pedophilia, whatever. You're not
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going to have to trouble
anything ...you're going to say
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sorry we're not going to have
you around these kids. No matter
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what I say you know I
really want to get up and I love
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telling stories in church. Now I
lie a little bit but you know my
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family, I came from a family of
people who lied, they stretched
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the story so far. You're going
to say any commandment that I do
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hey I want to take part in your
church but I use the Lord's name
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in vain. You're going to say
no. Except when it comes to if I
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come to you and say you know I'd
like to have a position in your
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church as a leader but now I am
an adulterer. I was kind of born
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that way. I like women and can't
help, so you're going to say no.
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But if I come to you and say
look now, term they use is gay.
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I don't use that because it's
a misnomer. Way back in the 30s
00:10:23.42\00:10:27.22
and 40s people would say
we're having a gay time. It's
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something happy, something good,
you know great a lot of songs
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written. So I usually say
the LGBTQ or the homosexual
00:10:34.13\00:10:38.13
community. So when you
look at it, I think it's so much
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emotional. I'm born that way, I
can't really help it so we don't
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want to say no because it's
offensive. But when we say no
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it's like they go tell this
crowd and then this crowd and
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then others and then everybody's
suing or picking in your church
00:10:56.99\00:10:59.39
to your pastor or they're saying
man these people are prejudiced
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you know they've got all these
...they're homophobic, they're
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whatever. So to me, we have 10
commandments and we as a church
00:11:06.70\00:11:14.24
a Seventh-day Adventist church
we've always preached all 10
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commandments. Back I used in
my sermon there are churches a
00:11:16.17\00:11:20.08
couple weeks ago we showed a
little clip of C.D. Brooks and
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Elder Brooks talked about
homosexuals and lesbians and he
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talked about even in one place,
I didn't show transgenders, you
00:11:28.78\00:11:33.76
know then called transvestites.
And he talked openly and out
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front But that was only maybe
20, 30 years or so ago. But
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today I don't think he could
preach in any of our
universities because
00:11:42.43\00:11:45.93
you have to be so careful of
what you say. So what I'm seeing
00:11:45.97\00:11:50.21
is more or less I say a bullying
I say that in terms of the way
00:11:50.24\00:11:55.24
people talk today, but they're
forcing their way into the
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church and getting sympathy from
everyone else because they say
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well I was born that way I can't
really help it. I should be able
00:12:02.02\00:12:05.55
to do. But, so, I also want to
clarify this. None of us are up
00:12:05.59\00:12:11.69
here...I can speak James and
Ryan and myself. We're not here
00:12:11.73\00:12:15.80
because we're beyond sin. We're
not here because we have no sin.
00:12:15.83\00:12:17.73
All of us are sinners saved by
grace. We're talking about open
00:12:17.77\00:12:22.97
sin, open rebellion. And if
every pastor said well I can't
00:12:23.00\00:12:28.24
preach until I quit sinning,
there'd be no pastors. Or if I
00:12:28.28\00:12:32.51
were perfect, let me say it like
that. If any pastor said well
00:12:32.55\00:12:35.85
I'm perfect, now I can preach.
That's an imperfection. He
00:12:35.88\00:12:39.35
shouldn't preach. So we're all
sinners saved by grace. So we're
00:12:39.39\00:12:41.82
not here today judging, we're
not here downplaying about how
00:12:41.86\00:12:46.73
this is no worse sin than
any other. I just can't get it
00:12:46.76\00:12:49.50
through my little mind why it's
not on equal grounds according
00:12:49.53\00:12:55.60
to you know culture today that
if it's still wrong to you know
00:12:55.64\00:12:59.21
Thou shalt have no other Gods
before me, you know, make no
00:12:59.24\00:13:02.88
graven images, you know don't
use the Lord's name in vain.
00:13:02.91\00:13:06.88
Remember the Sabbath day,
you know, honor thy father and
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.48
mother, thou shalt not kill,
thou shall not steal, thy shall
00:13:08.52\00:13:11.15
not commit adultery. Why as we
go down it's just this one. We
00:13:11.19\00:13:15.16
still think adultery's wrong and
we'll talk about it but when it
00:13:15.19\00:13:20.13
comes to homosexuality we don't
want to say anything because
00:13:20.16\00:13:22.53
we're pressured by our peers
around us and so it's tough.
00:13:22.56\00:13:28.50
And another, then I want to
hear James's opinion part of the
00:13:28.54\00:13:32.44
reasons for our schools and our
educational systems is when we
00:13:32.47\00:13:37.25
have a lot of government money
coming in because we're not free
00:13:37.28\00:13:41.95
to say what we want to say
so we have to really be careful
00:13:41.98\00:13:44.95
Because I put up the statement
by Loma Linda. Some people were
00:13:44.99\00:13:50.76
upset about that but I didn't
say anything you know that Dr.
00:13:50.79\00:13:55.26
Hart didn't say himself. I
was just reading what he put out
00:13:55.30\00:13:58.07
publicly and so I'd like to get
maybe James your opinion on this
00:13:58.10\00:14:03.54
why is this...it seems like it's
not in the category if you talk
00:14:03.57\00:14:11.98
about if people want to take you
to a political site. Oh you must
00:14:12.01\00:14:13.35
be a Republican if you talk
about you know the sin of the
00:14:13.38\00:14:18.95
sixth and seventh commandments
if you talk about that or
00:14:18.99\00:14:21.36
the other says
00:14:21.39\00:14:22.72
well if you do this you must be
a Democrat. So as I was saying
00:14:22.76\00:14:25.39
earlier Ryan today I'm going
to have people on the left and
00:14:25.43\00:14:28.46
people on the right that's not
going to be very happy but we
00:14:28.50\00:14:31.60
have to tell the truth as
we know it but I'd like to hear
00:14:31.63\00:14:35.17
James.
00:14:35.20\00:14:36.91
Well we made a mistake you know
as probably a church and as a
00:14:36.94\00:14:40.21
community, we've made a mistake
in the past We put homosexuality
00:14:40.24\00:14:45.21
in a special category. We made
it a special sin. I had a man
00:14:45.25\00:14:49.88
just a few weeks ago tell me
you know there's one sin that
00:14:49.92\00:14:56.59
God hates worst in the Bible.
And I said what is that? He said
00:14:56.62\00:14:59.96
it's homosexuality. And I said
no actually if you read Proverbs
00:15:00.00\00:15:04.07
six the sin that God hates
the most that's actually an
00:15:04.10\00:15:06.94
abomination to Him is pride and
lying. Actually these six the
00:15:06.97\00:15:12.54
Lord hates and seven are an
abomination unto Him. A proud
00:15:13.41\00:15:16.64
look and a lying tongue and
a false witness. So when we put
00:15:16.68\00:15:20.55
homosexuality in a special
category in the past we've born
00:15:20.58\00:15:25.45
a false witness to the truth of
God's word. Romans chapter one
00:15:25.49\00:15:28.62
says homosexuality, dishonoring
parents, gossip, all of these
00:15:28.66\00:15:35.96
sins are in the same category.
So we owe the LGBTQ community
00:15:36.00\00:15:42.20
an apology. But in a sense it's
too late. They've already felt
00:15:42.24\00:15:48.94
the ramifications, the
implications of the way that
00:15:48.98\00:15:52.05
we've treated them as a
Christian church and Christian
00:15:52.08\00:15:56.12
believers. And now that we've
put them in a special category
00:15:56.15\00:15:59.12
they want the special category.
So we're seeing a swing now so
00:15:59.15\00:16:05.33
that homosexuals are saying
there's nothing wrong with our
00:16:05.36\00:16:09.40
sin. Yes we acknowledge all
the other sins, but we were born
00:16:09.43\00:16:15.00
this way. We can't help it.
There's nothing we can do about
00:16:15.04\00:16:18.07
this. You put us in a special
category over here. Now we want
00:16:18.11\00:16:21.64
a special category over here.
That's what I see taking place
00:16:21.68\00:16:25.31
in our society and church. I see
a lot of church leaders, a lot
00:16:25.35\00:16:29.92
of Christians saying you know
what: We have made a mistake
00:16:29.95\00:16:33.19
in the past. We need to make it
up to them. We need to go easier
00:16:33.22\00:16:37.89
on the LGBTQ community. We can't
identify what they're doing as a
00:16:37.93\00:16:42.56
sin. But the truth of the matter
is that's a false witness that's
00:16:42.60\00:16:47.14
a lie. When we lie 1 John
1 verses 8 to 10 tell us we
00:16:47.17\00:16:52.81
deceive ourselves. Let me put it
this way. When we don't identify
00:16:52.84\00:16:59.11
sin as sin and deceive ourselves
and we make God a liar. So we
00:16:59.15\00:17:03.42
have to hold to the Bible but
we owe an apology to the LGBT
00:17:03.45\00:17:07.86
community with the grace of God
and the love of God just like we
00:17:07.89\00:17:12.49
would with any other person.
Like myself for example. I
00:17:12.53\00:17:16.53
inherited inclinations to
alcoholism on both sides of my
00:17:16.56\00:17:20.20
family. And I give up. I just
felt like I can't be a Christian
00:17:20.24\00:17:24.84
because I can't stop drinking.
I gave that to God and He gave
00:17:24.87\00:17:27.71
me the grace and He took that
away from me. It wasn't easy but
00:17:27.74\00:17:32.08
God grew me out of that
inherited and cultivated sin.
00:17:32.11\00:17:39.89
And God can do the same
in every category of sin.
00:17:39.92\00:17:44.26
Thank you. Ryan.
00:17:44.29\00:17:47.26
Now I back everything, you guys
have said so far. What makes
00:17:47.30\00:17:49.30
this subject so difficult
is God's word never changes. We
00:17:49.33\00:17:55.47
know that. God doesn't change,
His character doesn't change,
00:17:55.50\00:17:58.21
His word never changes. So it's
not like we're going to look at
00:17:58.24\00:18:03.24
a historical shifting of God
changing over time. We can never
00:18:03.28\00:18:06.75
find a point in history where
we can say well God once was
00:18:06.78\00:18:09.95
here but then He changed to
this. Or He used to press this
00:18:09.98\00:18:13.82
issue but now he's changed
to this. God doesn't change, his
00:18:13.86\00:18:17.19
word doesn't change and that's
the most consistent and constant
00:18:17.23\00:18:19.19
thing that we can ground
ourselves in. But yet people
00:18:19.23\00:18:23.67
change. Cultures change and it
changes with time. And it seems
00:18:23.70\00:18:27.20
that we've reached a point
in today's society where the
00:18:27.24\00:18:31.64
culture has now reached a point
where it is challenging and it's
00:18:31.67\00:18:36.04
hijacking and trying to pervert
and shift the truth of God's
00:18:36.08\00:18:41.58
word to be something else. Or
to try to abandon it or leave it
00:18:41.62\00:18:45.45
alone or ignore it and try
to still pitch this idea, this
00:18:45.49\00:18:48.06
twisted, perverted idea
that we can still be professed
00:18:48.09\00:18:52.49
believers, we can still love
Jesus and be lovers of Jesus and
00:18:52.53\00:18:55.40
have the love of Jesus but yet
these principles and these ideas
00:18:55.43\00:18:58.53
that we find in the Bible that
talk about homosexuality, well
00:18:58.57\00:19:02.07
that's not up with the times.
In fact, I had a professed
00:19:02.10\00:19:05.21
Christian recently tell me
that they've stopped reading the
00:19:05.24\00:19:09.51
"manmade" Bible because
it's homophobic. That was their
00:19:09.54\00:19:14.85
comment. The Bible's homophobic.
Now this is the same person that
00:19:14.88\00:19:18.05
used to go to church with me
and used to grow up with me. Now
00:19:18.09\00:19:21.62
they've shifted their views to
try to make the Bible out to be
00:19:21.66\00:19:23.99
something that it's not when the
Bible has never changed. And so
00:19:24.03\00:19:27.13
I have even found myself in the
past because I have homosexual
00:19:27.16\00:19:31.57
friends. I have friends and
family who are of that lifestyle
00:19:31.60\00:19:35.00
And I love these people. They're
brothers and sisters that you
00:19:35.07\00:19:38.84
put me in a room with them,
I mean my goodness we love each
00:19:38.87\00:19:40.71
other to death and I love the
mess out of them because they're
00:19:40.74\00:19:43.48
just great and wonderful people
to be around but I do disagree
00:19:43.51\00:19:47.12
based on my Biblical beliefs
with that particular lifestyle.
00:19:47.15\00:19:50.12
And I've even had these people
speak to me and they'll say
00:19:50.15\00:19:52.99
things like well Ryan this is my
struggle, this is my sin. Some
00:19:53.02\00:19:58.16
of them have even told me like
I recognize that the Bible calls
00:19:58.19\00:20:01.00
this out as a sin and I know I'm
dealing with this between me and
00:20:01.03\00:20:03.63
the Lord. But when it comes to
others that are not homosexual
00:20:03.67\00:20:06.43
or that stand against it or have
spoken up against it, they'll
00:20:06.47\00:20:11.14
say well those people, you guys
don't know what you're talking
00:20:11.17\00:20:12.51
about. You're not presenting
it the right way. You don't know
00:20:12.54\00:20:14.24
this. So it makes it difficult
to speak on it in today's time
00:20:14.28\00:20:17.48
because it's such a
controversial issue.
00:20:17.51\00:20:19.01
But I find myself still in all
the love that I can muster up
00:20:19.05\00:20:23.22
and all the respect that I
can for these people in this
00:20:23.25\00:20:26.15
community who are struggling
with this sin just like I'm
00:20:26.19\00:20:29.69
struggling with my sins.
Everybody else is struggling
with their character
00:20:29.72\00:20:32.36
defects, I still have to go
back to the word of God and say
00:20:32.39\00:20:35.00
this is what God's word says.
You know culture may change, we
00:20:35.03\00:20:39.40
may change, but God doesn't
change. And so whether it's my
00:20:39.43\00:20:43.34
problems, my struggles,
my character defects, or your
00:20:43.37\00:20:46.81
problems, your sins,
your struggles, your character
00:20:46.84\00:20:48.74
defects at the end of the day
we have to go back and say God
00:20:48.78\00:20:51.81
is God, God is love, and we
have to bring our life and our
00:20:51.85\00:20:55.28
beliefs in
harmony with His word.
00:20:55.32\00:20:58.99
Right. We're talking about open
sin and people accepting open
00:20:59.02\00:21:05.49
sin. Now may you could give
us a little bit, maybe go in the
00:21:05.53\00:21:08.90
Bible just a little bit and show
us because some people say well
00:21:08.93\00:21:12.37
I really don't think
homosexuality is a sin and you
00:21:12.40\00:21:16.24
know when it refers to it in the
Bible it's not really...you know
00:21:16.27\00:21:20.01
everyone has their own opinion
so why don't we before we go any
00:21:20.04\00:21:23.81
further, you establish the fact
whether homosexuality is indeed
00:21:23.85\00:21:27.95
a sin. So my thoughts on this
and I've thought about it a lot
00:21:27.98\00:21:33.12
is the fact that any sin that's
open sin, God is not going to
00:21:33.15\00:21:38.43
take anybody to heaven
who wouldn't be happy there.
00:21:38.46\00:21:40.46
That's right brother.
00:21:40.50\00:21:42.86
God is love so he wants us
to be happy. No matter which
00:21:42.90\00:21:45.70
commandment we rebel against
and we openly reject that's
00:21:45.73\00:21:51.67
called a sin. So when we break
God's law, the wages of sin is
00:21:51.71\00:21:57.51
death but the gift of God is
eternal life. It's our duty to
00:21:57.55\00:22:02.18
teach people that open rebellion
against God on any of his
00:22:02.22\00:22:06.86
commandments will end up in
death. So we have to love people
00:22:06.89\00:22:10.43
enough to tell them the truth.
00:22:10.46\00:22:12.53
That's right, that's
right, absolutely. Just simply
00:22:12.56\00:22:15.56
considering what the Bible
teaches about this, you know,
00:22:15.60\00:22:18.30
there are many Bible texts, not
going to have time to read them
00:22:18.33\00:22:20.57
all but I'll read a few
prominent ones. First of all
00:22:20.60\00:22:22.30
we want to establish the fact
that right there according to
00:22:22.34\00:22:26.07
God's original plan in Genesis
2 We know Genesis 2:24 tells us
00:22:26.11\00:22:29.74
And this is God speaking:
Therefore a man shall leave his
00:22:29.78\00:22:32.45
father and his mother and
be joined to his wife and they
00:22:32.48\00:22:35.05
shall become one flesh. So this
is God's design plan that the
00:22:35.08\00:22:39.35
marital sexual relationship that
was blessed and given by God was
00:22:39.39\00:22:43.86
a marital relationship between
one man and one woman. Okay.
00:22:43.89\00:22:48.50
But man perverts this, the devil
comes along. He works in the
00:22:48.53\00:22:53.44
hearts of men and they pervert
this designed plan that God set
00:22:53.47\00:22:56.94
forth and blessed in the
beginning. So the devil sees the
00:22:56.97\00:22:59.91
plan and he says No, one man,
one woman, well he's going to
00:22:59.94\00:23:02.44
sneak in and he's going to try
to pervert that original plan
00:23:02.48\00:23:05.21
that God designed so that by the
time you get further into the
00:23:05.25\00:23:08.48
story, the days of Noah.
Remember Jesus says in Matthew
00:23:08.52\00:23:11.22
24, As it was in the days of
Noah so shall also the coming of
00:23:11.25\00:23:14.49
the Son of Man be. Well there
may not be an explicit text that
00:23:14.52\00:23:17.53
talks about this but we know if
we're dealing with it down here
00:23:17.56\00:23:20.20
prior to the second coming
of Jesus, you better know that
00:23:20.23\00:23:24.00
homosexuality, you know this
abortion issue and many, many
00:23:24.03\00:23:26.23
other sins related to it and all
types of sins were being dealt
00:23:26.27\00:23:30.07
within the days of Noah. So
this was perverted over time and
00:23:30.11\00:23:33.81
all the way down to Moses's time
as God is calling His people.
00:23:33.84\00:23:37.65
He's saying now I want you to
be my people, my special chosen
00:23:37.68\00:23:40.32
people. He gives them
instruction. So right there in
00:23:40.35\00:23:42.95
the book of Leviticus for
instance, chapter 18 verse 22
00:23:42.98\00:23:46.05
that's an example, God says
to His people. He says you shall
00:23:46.09\00:23:49.62
lie with a male as with a woman.
It is an abomination. So He's
00:23:49.66\00:23:53.53
speaking, I don't want to see my
men laying and having relations
00:23:53.56\00:23:56.80
with other men. He repeats it
in the 20th chapter of Leviticus
00:23:56.83\00:24:00.00
verse 13 if a man lies with
a male as he lies with a woman
00:24:00.04\00:24:03.84
both of them have committed an
abomination. And this was God's
00:24:03.87\00:24:06.41
attitude towards it. If they'd
given themself over to that
00:24:06.44\00:24:09.81
debased mind and that debased
lifestyle, it goes on to say,
00:24:09.84\00:24:13.18
they shall surely be put to
death. Their blood shall be upon
00:24:13.21\00:24:16.58
them. This was a personal choice
00:24:16.62\00:24:17.95
Verse 13.
00:24:17.99\00:24:19.32
Absolutely. In Leviticus 20
verse 13. Thank you, brother.
00:24:19.35\00:24:20.96
Appreciate that. Now that
was just a few...a couple of Old
00:24:20.99\00:24:23.73
Testament texts and some people
say that's Old Testament. You
00:24:23.76\00:24:26.36
know I'm a New Testament
Christian, Ryan. And I've even
00:24:26.39\00:24:28.76
had some friends who are
homosexual that know, who I went
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.73
to college with who are now in
the clergy of their church who
00:24:31.77\00:24:35.10
are active practicing
homosexuals. But they say,
00:24:35.14\00:24:38.64
New Testament does not
preach on this, does not declare
00:24:38.67\00:24:42.01
homosexuality as a sin.
Well Pastor James just quoted in
00:24:42.04\00:24:46.75
reference Romans chapter 1.
You go read Romans chapter 1. My
00:24:46.78\00:24:50.32
goodness! I'm just going to read
a few passages here. This is
00:24:50.35\00:24:53.66
Romans chapter 1 beginning
in verse 26. Notice what he says
00:24:53.69\00:24:56.59
here. He's addressing the
unrighteous and the wrath that
00:24:56.62\00:24:59.46
God will bring upon the
unrighteous and he gives a
00:24:59.49\00:25:02.56
description of this unrighteous.
Starting in verse 26 of Romans 1
00:25:02.60\00:25:06.33
He says for this reason God gave
them up to vile passions for
00:25:06.37\00:25:10.31
even their women exchanged the
natural use, for what is against
00:25:10.34\00:25:15.48
nature. Going back to what God
had set in place. They're going
00:25:15.51\00:25:18.08
against what God set in place
as the rightful act in nature
00:25:18.11\00:25:23.02
but then it clarifies in
verse 27. Likewise also the men
00:25:23.05\00:25:27.62
leaving the natural use of
the woman burned in lust for one
00:25:27.66\00:25:30.96
another, men with men committing
what is shameful. And then you
00:25:30.99\00:25:35.70
go ahead and read through this
passage. By the time you get to
00:25:35.73\00:25:38.97
the last verse here, verse
32, it says, Who knowing the
00:25:39.00\00:25:42.90
the righteous judgment of
God that those who practice such
00:25:42.94\00:25:46.47
things are deserving of death.
Not only do the same but also
00:25:46.51\00:25:50.48
approve of those who
practice them. So you have God's
00:25:50.51\00:25:54.42
condemnation of this act in the
Old Testament and then a repeat
00:25:54.45\00:25:59.29
of it even in the New Testament
in the writings of Paul where
00:25:59.32\00:26:01.36
God's attitude is, Look this is
not my plan. This is not what my
00:26:01.39\00:26:06.09
plan was for you and if a person
remains in this particular
00:26:06.13\00:26:08.76
persistent lifestyle what they
have to look forward to is a
00:26:08.80\00:26:12.90
life of destruction and death.
And then of course, you have
00:26:12.93\00:26:16.74
1 Corinthians chapter 6 verse
9 and 10. It says: Do you not
00:26:16.77\00:26:19.57
know that the unrighteous will
not inherit the kingdom of God
00:26:19.61\00:26:22.44
Do not be deceived. Neither
fornicators, nor idolators, nor
00:26:22.48\00:26:27.88
adulters, in the New King James
it says, nor homosexuals. The
00:26:27.92\00:26:32.55
original word in the Greek there
is malakos which means Calamite.
00:26:32.59\00:26:36.36
Now I'm not going to explain
what a calamite (sic) (catamite)
00:26:36.39\00:26:38.09
is. I'm going to stop there.
I'll let you do that research.
00:26:38.13\00:26:40.93
It's very graphic okay? It's
talking about homosexual actions
00:26:40.96\00:26:46.40
and it goes on to say nor
sodomites and the original word
00:26:46.43\00:26:52.17
arsenokoites is the Greek
word here for sodomites which is
00:26:52.21\00:26:55.41
literally talking about male
homosexuality or in this case
00:26:55.44\00:26:59.28
the homosexuality in general.
Women lying with women, men
00:26:59.31\00:27:01.85
being with men. And it goes on
to describe...Nor thieves, nor
00:27:01.88\00:27:05.55
covetous, nor drunkards, nor
revilers, nor extortioners will
00:27:05.59\00:27:09.39
inherit the kingdom of God. This
same principle is repeated in
00:27:09.42\00:27:12.83
1 Timothy chapter 1 verses
9-11. I'm not going to read that
00:27:12.86\00:27:15.70
particular text but the texts in
scripture is clear on this. The
00:27:15.73\00:27:20.30
one thing, I love about these
texts though and that we have
00:27:20.34\00:27:22.20
already emphasized because
it seems like we're highlighting
00:27:22.24\00:27:24.37
the homosexuality, right, or
we're beating up the homosexuals
00:27:24.41\00:27:27.71
Every single one of these
passages that I've read it talks
00:27:27.74\00:27:31.65
about the thieves, it talks
about the extortioners, it talks
00:27:31.68\00:27:35.48
about the liars, the adulterers,
the fornicators. So we're not
00:27:35.52\00:27:37.99
here to say only the
homosexuality is the worse sin
00:27:38.02\00:27:40.76
of them all and you all deserve
to go to hell. No! We're saying
00:27:40.79\00:27:45.56
sin is sin and this happens
to be one of those sins that our
00:27:45.59\00:27:49.36
current culture they're shunning
from, they're backing away from
00:27:49.40\00:27:53.20
and it's politically incorrect
to address this issue in our
00:27:53.23\00:27:58.21
time but the word of
God is clear upon it.
00:27:58.24\00:28:01.44
But I want to say Ryan just
because you've made this point
00:28:01.48\00:28:03.11
if I could is that we have made
that mistake in the past and the
00:28:03.14\00:28:08.08
man that I talked to my church
was a previous generation.
00:28:08.12\00:28:10.79
I mean this guy was in his 70s
or 80s. And he's isolating that
00:28:10.82\00:28:14.96
and like Proverbs 6 says
and Romans 1 says and like
00:28:14.99\00:28:18.86
1 Corinthians says it's all of
the sins are all in one category
00:28:18.89\00:28:24.27
When we isolate
00:28:24.30\00:28:26.87
we are bearing false witness
That's why I think we're seeing
00:28:26.90\00:28:30.07
this kickback that's taking
place in our time (garbled).
00:28:30.11\00:28:36.01
One of the reasons I wanted
to deal with it is because of
00:28:36.04\00:28:40.95
culture and the times in which
we're living even Adventist
00:28:40.98\00:28:44.05
Christians, many of them are
placing this into a political
00:28:44.09\00:28:49.62
platform. You're either on the
left or you're on the right. And
00:28:49.66\00:28:52.86
what I'm telling people. This
has nothing to do with politics.
00:28:52.89\00:28:56.06
I don't care if you're democrat
or you're republican if you
00:28:56.10\00:28:59.80
read the Bible sin is sin is
sin is sin is sin, whether it's
00:28:59.83\00:29:03.27
adultery or whether it's
homosexuality or abortion. You
00:29:03.30\00:29:07.14
name it. But for some reason
when we get up I've never had
00:29:07.18\00:29:12.18
pushback from Seventh-day
Adventists. We've been on the
00:29:12.21\00:29:15.02
probably 36 years at least
and I've never had pushback from
00:29:15.05\00:29:19.69
Seventh-day Adventists when we
preach about adultery, when we
00:29:19.72\00:29:23.12
preach about lying, when we
preach about stealing, when we
00:29:23.16\00:29:26.16
preach about you know breaking
the Sabbath. But when you preach
00:29:26.19\00:29:30.60
about homosexuality also part
of the seventh commandment along
00:29:30.63\00:29:35.27
with committing adultery people
push back. And they'll say oh
00:29:35.30\00:29:39.74
you're just on the right side of
politics, and then, then, well
00:29:39.77\00:29:48.22
No this has nothing to do
with politics whatsoever though
00:29:48.25\00:29:51.29
that's the way people want to
line you up. And so James, it's
00:29:51.32\00:29:55.02
a problem within the church. Now
you talked about someone that
00:29:55.06\00:29:59.69
you went to college with and
maybe not an Adventist in their
00:29:59.73\00:30:04.07
particular church. They want
to believe...and I think it's so
00:30:04.10\00:30:07.10
interesting because it hit me
the other day. Now these people
00:30:07.14\00:30:10.01
will say there's pastors in some
churches already that you know
00:30:10.04\00:30:15.41
they have a number of clergies
that are openly homosexual.
00:30:15.44\00:30:19.85
Because they say this, now think
about this James, they say this:
00:30:19.88\00:30:23.49
Well the fact that God
is not going to hold someone
00:30:23.52\00:30:28.16
accountable, God is not going
to be that unfair that He would
00:30:28.19\00:30:33.33
make somebody you know they're
born that way and they can't
00:30:33.36\00:30:36.06
help it. God wouldn't be
that unfair. My question for you
00:30:36.10\00:30:39.60
Pastor, from whatever
denomination, thankfully it's
00:30:39.63\00:30:43.57
not in ours and hopefully it
won't be that we have ordained
00:30:43.61\00:30:48.04
homosexual pastors or ordained
open adultery, saying that every
00:30:48.08\00:30:53.38
time but isn't it interesting
you think God would be unfair
00:30:53.42\00:30:57.22
but yet you teach that God will
torture you if you don't agree
00:30:57.25\00:31:00.89
with Him. He would burn
you forever and ever and ever.
00:31:00.92\00:31:04.39
He'll torture, God will torture
people throughout all eternity
00:31:04.43\00:31:07.63
You preach that but then you
uphold and say well God wouldn't
00:31:07.66\00:31:11.03
be so unfair that He would not
let me live this kind of a life.
00:31:11.07\00:31:16.50
My ears are like what did they
just say? I mean which would be
00:31:16.54\00:31:21.24
more unfair. I mean it's
the character of God that's been
00:31:21.28\00:31:25.98
attacked. So this is not just
about...people want to say well
00:31:26.01\00:31:30.29
these are the last six
commandments and we can't
00:31:30.32\00:31:32.85
mandate any laws of the last
six these moral laws. This is a
00:31:32.89\00:31:38.79
worship, this is a worship.
It's about the Creator God who
00:31:38.83\00:31:41.36
created Adam and Eve, as we say
not Adam and Steve. And so when
00:31:41.40\00:31:46.17
people are openly, blasphemously
and trying to come into the
00:31:46.20\00:31:51.24
church. We already have as I
mentioned in the sermon at least
00:31:51.27\00:31:55.78
one ordained, maybe more, elder
that's transgender. So I mean
00:31:55.81\00:31:59.95
think about that in the church
already because no one wants
00:31:59.98\00:32:04.42
to say well this is a sin. We
can't be against it. So why do
00:32:04.45\00:32:08.79
we want to do it? The reason I
spoke about it when I found out
00:32:08.82\00:32:12.16
that even within our church
we have some of our universities
00:32:12.19\00:32:16.06
and I gave a statement I think
from PUC (Pacific Union College)
00:32:16.10\00:32:19.37
where they said one of the
professors says, and it's a
00:32:19.40\00:32:22.57
public statement so I'm
not dogging, you know, talking
00:32:22.60\00:32:25.54
saying anything negative. What
he said you can love anyone you
00:32:25.57\00:32:29.34
want to love, we have an
affirming theology of all things
00:32:29.38\00:32:33.75
and you can marry whomever
you want to marry and still
00:32:33.78\00:32:36.72
basically, go to heaven. I'm
paraphrasing. So I thought you
00:32:36.75\00:32:39.85
know when we have people so
openly as a church. Now Seventh-
00:32:39.89\00:32:44.16
day Adventists are known for
teaching all 10 commandments of
00:32:44.19\00:32:47.63
God. But all of a sudden here
we're preaching you've got to
00:32:47.66\00:32:51.53
keep the Sabbath, you've got
to keep the Sabbath, but we're
00:32:51.57\00:32:54.30
literally excusing the sixth and
seventh commandments because of
00:32:54.34\00:32:59.01
culture. It's time that we stand
up. So we kind of named this
00:32:59.04\00:33:01.64
program Silence Is Deadly. And
I think for too long too many of
00:33:01.68\00:33:05.65
us and a lot of folk don't know
what to do because it's just
00:33:05.68\00:33:08.88
maybe you're one voice at your
church or you say I don't have
00:33:08.92\00:33:12.02
an impact or an influence, but
I think we have to stand up and
00:33:12.05\00:33:16.56
let people know. If you're on a
church board, you're a member of
00:33:16.59\00:33:18.99
a church and they're wanting to
bring this in, it's one thing to
00:33:19.03\00:33:24.47
even accept it, it's another
thing to celebrate it. So this
00:33:24.50\00:33:27.10
is the statement we read on Loma
Linda, we celebrate Pride Month.
00:33:27.14\00:33:30.81
So this has gone so far it's
like you know what we have to
00:33:30.84\00:33:34.44
stand up and say look this
is not right because we look so
00:33:34.48\00:33:38.55
inconsistent as Seventh-day
Adventists. We put out books,
00:33:38.58\00:33:40.98
here's a new one I have called
The Lord's Day. And there's a
00:33:41.02\00:33:44.12
reason why I wrote this
book because so many people have
00:33:44.15\00:33:47.92
forgotten Remember the Sabbath
day to keep it holy. Most of the
00:33:47.96\00:33:50.83
Christian world has it confused.
So why do we talk about it?
00:33:50.86\00:33:54.80
Adventists have been harping on
it for 150 years. Why? Because
00:33:54.83\00:33:59.67
people seem to have forgotten
about it. So the same way now
00:33:59.70\00:34:02.90
we're seeing the sixth and
seventh commandments and the
00:34:02.94\00:34:05.81
same thing is happening but it's
being accepted in the church and
00:34:05.84\00:34:09.74
so again it's love everybody but
we also have to stand up and be
00:34:09.78\00:34:15.28
consistent in our theology. We
have people writing us. We went
00:34:15.32\00:34:20.16
on YouTube and there's several
people who've put out, not just
00:34:20.19\00:34:23.73
3ABN but others put out the
sermon. There's one therefrom
00:34:23.76\00:34:28.36
You want me to take it? (Yes)
Okay this comes from someone on
00:34:28.40\00:34:31.33
YouTube. Danny, I have a new
respect for you and 3ABN. As a
00:34:31.37\00:34:34.97
person who identified as gay
and I and two others came to a
00:34:35.00\00:34:40.11
seminar 22 years ago, agree with
your statement. Can't say it's
00:34:40.14\00:34:45.21
not been a struggle but God has
done amazing things in my life.
00:34:45.25\00:34:47.45
My friend and roommate of 22
years now whom both of us lived
00:34:47.48\00:34:51.89
that lifestyle have been changed
by the grace of God. He took
00:34:51.92\00:34:55.06
what was broken and made
it right. He with his very own
00:34:55.09\00:34:59.23
hands developed this friendship
out of a gay relationship. We
00:34:59.26\00:35:05.63
both ever since that Adventist
seminar knew right from the
00:35:05.67\00:35:08.34
beginning were hearing the truth
so we both decided that we were
00:35:08.37\00:35:13.04
going to let God deliver us and
build to this very day a solid
00:35:13.07\00:35:15.91
friendship. We are both still
active in our church and God has
00:35:15.94\00:35:19.41
seen us through. Preach the
truth. Stand by it because all
00:35:19.45\00:35:22.05
of us need it. Conviction is
important. Today everything is
00:35:22.08\00:35:26.05
watered down. Can't get into all
the details of our walk but let
00:35:26.09\00:35:30.06
me tell you God is very real and
in the business to change us.
00:35:30.09\00:35:33.56
Praise God!
00:35:33.60\00:35:36.06
That's not an isolated statement
I could tell you there's other
00:35:36.10\00:35:40.54
people who have that experience
because I was pastoring a church
00:35:40.57\00:35:42.57
and there was a man who
went through the exact same
00:35:42.60\00:35:46.71
experience with his partner.
When they came back to the Lord
00:35:46.74\00:35:50.88
both of them said we're going to
stay friends but no more of this
00:35:50.91\00:35:54.45
lifestyle and they lived that
through until one of them passed
00:35:54.48\00:35:56.99
away and the other one is still
alive today and told me his
00:35:57.02\00:35:58.89
testimony, powerful. (Amen)
00:35:58.92\00:36:00.52
So what we're saying is that
it's a sin like any other sin
00:36:00.56\00:36:05.79
and therefore if people don't
know that it's a sin they won't
00:36:05.83\00:36:09.93
repent. So it's
our responsibility as
00:36:09.96\00:36:13.44
Seventh-day Adventist Christians
to call out the sin. Again God
00:36:13.47\00:36:17.44
loves the sinner but He
hates sin. So by calling it out,
00:36:17.47\00:36:21.61
because when you read and see
how it's being so accepted and
00:36:21.64\00:36:24.41
in our universities and
our educational system that
00:36:24.45\00:36:28.25
people are accepting it and many
of our kids poled, taking a pole
00:36:28.28\00:36:33.25
say well we think it's okay. We
don't see anything wrong. And so
00:36:33.29\00:36:36.02
what we have to do is say look
we have to love these people.
00:36:36.06\00:36:39.69
We have to call it a sin or
their blood will be on our hands
00:36:39.73\00:36:42.80
But I can't believe our time
has gone so quickly but I think
00:36:42.83\00:36:46.70
we're going to have to...there's
much. We could do a whole
00:36:46.74\00:36:48.67
program and more but we're
going to have to switch this...
00:36:48.70\00:36:51.74
I have two Bible verses. (All
right) 1 John chapter 1 verse 8
00:36:51.77\00:36:56.44
If we say that we have no
sin we deceive ourselves and the
00:36:56.48\00:37:01.25
truth is not in us. Verse 10:
If we say we have not sinned, we
00:37:01.28\00:37:05.22
make Him a liar and His word is
not in us. And then the middle
00:37:05.25\00:37:08.52
verse of this, what I call
the gospel sandwich, 1 John 1:9:
00:37:08.56\00:37:12.73
If we confess our sins, He's
faithful and just to forgive us
00:37:12.76\00:37:15.80
our sins and cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. That's God's
00:37:15.83\00:37:19.97
job and He'll do it. Guaranteed.
00:37:20.00\00:37:22.34
Amen, amen. So now we have
to turn. We've been saying the
00:37:22.37\00:37:26.07
sixth and seventh commandments
but thou shall not murder.
00:37:26.11\00:37:31.35
Um I think this is a very tough
topic to deal with again and
00:37:31.38\00:37:35.15
once again when you talk about
what the Bible says so many
00:37:35.18\00:37:38.52
people, even within this church,
say oh you're just identifying
00:37:38.55\00:37:40.92
with politics and the people
on the right. So I'm saying, I
00:37:40.96\00:37:45.79
could care less in this
sense, take this right, it's not
00:37:45.83\00:37:51.17
important what Rowe vs. Wade and
how the Supreme Court deals with
00:37:51.20\00:37:53.00
with it. What's important is how
does God deal with it? What does
00:37:53.03\00:37:55.47
God say about abortion and that
should be the standard. So we
00:37:55.50\00:38:00.44
don't care if the republicans
are for it or against it or if
00:38:00.48\00:38:03.35
the democrats are for it or
against it. We have to say how
00:38:03.38\00:38:06.88
does God look at it? Now what
I brought out in my sermon was
00:38:06.92\00:38:11.25
that God does not make a
distinction between the born and
00:38:11.29\00:38:16.86
the unborn. So man does
that. So one of the very, very
00:38:16.89\00:38:21.63
difficult things, and I didn't
deal with it in the sermon, but
00:38:21.66\00:38:25.10
I want to deal with it a little
bit here today because people...
00:38:25.13\00:38:29.10
and I've seen this over and over
and over again, when pastors say
00:38:29.14\00:38:33.58
that well we're against abortion
but remember we think a woman
00:38:33.61\00:38:37.75
has a right to choose. God
created us as free moral agents
00:38:37.78\00:38:41.85
so what are you really saying
when you say that is that but is
00:38:41.88\00:38:47.12
a huge word because I'm against
abortion but God made us free
00:38:47.16\00:38:51.43
moral agents. Well we talk about
yes He did but the wages of sin
00:38:51.46\00:38:56.20
are death so if I choose sin.
So it's important to understand
00:38:56.23\00:38:59.90
that there's no...God
doesn't differentiate, makes no
00:38:59.93\00:39:02.60
distinction between the
unborn and the born. So the same
00:39:02.64\00:39:07.44
principle applies to killing a
baby in the womb as one outside
00:39:07.48\00:39:10.58
the womb. But I made a statement
and I think I should address it
00:39:10.61\00:39:15.38
because what's happening so many
people have written me and said
00:39:15.42\00:39:17.45
we agree with you all except
in the cases of rape and incest.
00:39:17.49\00:39:21.89
We think that rape and incest
is excused. And once again what
00:39:21.92\00:39:30.30
happens is culture and it's
people's emotions. Maybe we've
00:39:30.33\00:39:34.57
had personal experiences or
whatever happens and so all I
00:39:34.60\00:39:39.14
can say is what the Bible says.
Like looking at you now. We're
00:39:39.17\00:39:44.21
not condemning people. It's not
for us to condemn what you do.
00:39:44.25\00:39:47.98
But as people God has given us
a platform, we just have to tell
00:39:48.02\00:39:53.05
you the truth, what the Bible
says. The Bible does not make an
00:39:53.09\00:39:56.79
exception for rape and incest.
Now we can justify it and maybe,
00:39:56.83\00:40:02.10
I'm going to go so far to say
you know are there exceptions?
00:40:02.13\00:40:05.30
There may be exceptions. People
bring out a good one; well what
00:40:05.33\00:40:09.64
about the life of the mother or
the life of the baby, they both
00:40:09.67\00:40:13.04
can't live. Those are things
that you and your doctor and
00:40:13.07\00:40:18.48
you know the parents have to
decide. But knowing because now
00:40:18.51\00:40:22.92
I've read some statements and
I won't put those out but even
00:40:22.95\00:40:26.49
people within this church saying
well if you find out a baby in
00:40:26.52\00:40:31.29
the womb is Down's syndrome
that's okay. No, it's not.
00:40:31.33\00:40:35.03
There's nothing in the Bible.
There's some wonderful Down's
00:40:35.06\00:40:38.53
syndrome children. I've seen
them before congress begging
00:40:38.57\00:40:42.04
congress Please don't make
laws to you know to kill us. We
00:40:42.07\00:40:50.25
should have the opportunity of
life like everyone else. And so
00:40:50.28\00:40:53.55
I can tell you straight up,
Down's syndrome is no exception
00:40:53.58\00:40:58.19
and people that is murder when
we kill those babies. Are there
00:40:58.22\00:41:02.06
some exceptions. There's
exceptions to everything in life
00:41:02.09\00:41:03.73
But I said I could take that
to if I wanted to say what about
00:41:03.76\00:41:08.20
lying. We could never lie.
We don't preach exceptions. Like
00:41:08.23\00:41:12.47
I've heard stories in World War
II. The people were hiding 24
00:41:12.50\00:41:15.80
Jews. Nazis came to their house
to kill them. Are you hiding
00:41:15.84\00:41:19.77
Jews and they said No. They
were. Had they said yes they
00:41:19.81\00:41:23.88
would have killed 24 Jews. Now
if they said no, it's a lie. Now
00:41:23.91\00:41:30.69
if that person between them and
God. I doubt they're going to be
00:41:30.72\00:41:34.19
like really scared of saying
maybe I did the wrong thing.
00:41:34.22\00:41:36.73
But we can't live on exceptions.
And we as those representing the
00:41:36.76\00:41:42.76
gospel can't teach exceptions.
So we can just tell you what
00:41:42.80\00:41:46.27
the Bible says. So for people
who say well I believe that
00:41:46.30\00:41:49.77
every bit I'm against abortion
except in the case of rape and
00:41:49.80\00:41:53.41
incest. I'm sorry. We don't
have...You can feel the way you
00:41:53.44\00:41:58.81
want about it, you can make your
own decision what you want to do
00:41:58.85\00:42:02.78
about it but there's no
scripture in the Bible that we
00:42:02.82\00:42:05.39
can give that actually says
that's okay. So it's between you
00:42:05.42\00:42:10.73
and God. So I don't
know how to say that...
00:42:10.76\00:42:13.13
No, I think that's the way you
say it. You said it just the way
00:42:13.16\00:42:15.13
in needed to be said. In
fact you were talking about
00:42:15.16\00:42:16.97
exceptions, you were talking
about exceptions. I just found
00:42:17.00\00:42:19.87
out recently, I'm 33 years old,
I just found out recently, my
00:42:19.90\00:42:22.60
dad was telling me. I was
talking about your sermon and
00:42:22.64\00:42:24.21
how many you preached
on this subject and my
00:42:24.24\00:42:26.57
dad tells me a story
about my own birth. He says yeah
00:42:26.61\00:42:30.41
he says when you developed you
developed in the Fallopian tube
00:42:30.45\00:42:33.28
because you didn't move down
to the womb or to the uterus.
00:42:33.31\00:42:36.05
He say so you were growing and
growing in the Fallopian tube
00:42:36.08\00:42:38.95
and there came a time when the
doctor...it was becoming serious
00:42:38.99\00:42:41.76
and the doctor said if this baby
doesn't move down in a week we
00:42:41.79\00:42:45.26
we're not going to have any
other choice. You know it could
00:42:45.29\00:42:47.93
potentially harm the life of
my mother. I was one of those
00:42:47.96\00:42:50.63
babies. So my mom had a week
where she was going to have to
00:42:50.67\00:42:54.74
make to abort me or not.
And praise the Lord, within that
00:42:54.77\00:42:59.54
week I moved down to the right
department, (that's prayer) I
00:42:59.57\00:43:01.44
I moved down to the right
department and praise the Lord.
00:43:01.48\00:43:06.75
But I didn't know this, My dad
was recently telling me Now that
00:43:06.78\00:43:08.12
would have been an exception.
Not that my mom wanted to
00:43:08.15\00:43:10.79
selfishly take my life but that
was a serious medical situation
00:43:10.82\00:43:14.09
that could have...obviously
going to take the baby's life,
00:43:14.12\00:43:17.09
but it would have potentially
harmed my mother's life if she
00:43:17.13\00:43:21.73
would have said, I'm keeping
this baby. I'm having this baby.
00:43:21.76\00:43:23.10
I'm going to let it continue to
grow whatever the case may have
00:43:23.13\00:43:24.93
been. And so there are serious
situations like that and there
00:43:24.97\00:43:29.00
are exceptions but in your case
you're saying rape, incest...
00:43:29.04\00:43:31.31
Ninety-eight to 99 percent,
98 percent at least of abortions
00:43:31.34\00:43:36.38
are just from inconvenience.
Very rarely is it a case of rape
00:43:36.41\00:43:44.19
or incest. So there are cases.
Again, the Bible doesn't make a
00:43:44.22\00:43:49.86
distinction so people have to
decide between them and God and
00:43:49.89\00:43:52.86
your answer to God what to
do with that. I wish I could say
00:43:52.89\00:43:56.53
yes this is the case because
emotionally it sure seems like
00:43:56.56\00:43:59.40
it. To be honest with you,
if that happened and I had a
00:43:59.43\00:44:02.37
10-year-old daughter and she
was raped I don't know what I
00:44:02.40\00:44:06.21
would do at this point. I'd have
to have it. But I can't give you
00:44:06.24\00:44:09.81
any exceptions from the Bible
because it's just not there.
00:44:09.84\00:44:12.98
So for preachers who want to
wipe it under the rug and just
00:44:13.01\00:44:16.65
say well you know I'm against
abortion but in the case of rape
00:44:16.69\00:44:20.19
and incest it's okay. I just
don't think we should preach
00:44:20.22\00:44:23.09
that you know people have to
make that decision. You see they
00:44:23.12\00:44:26.36
are free moral agents, but
we have to tell them the truth.
00:44:26.39\00:44:28.70
I want to quickly deal with
the mother. The mother having...
00:44:28.73\00:44:35.04
these are terrible decisions
that affect them the rest of
00:44:35.07\00:44:36.81
their life. We as a church
and as a body of Christians need
00:44:36.84\00:44:40.04
to love these mothers. We need
to support these women that make
00:44:40.08\00:44:44.88
these decisions and so to do
everything we can for the mother
00:44:44.91\00:44:49.88
in the valley of decision.
Loving them, talking about other
00:44:49.92\00:44:52.89
options if they have the baby.
We should do all that we can.
00:44:52.92\00:44:55.79
And all sins are forgiven. Isn't
that great. We have the love of
00:44:55.82\00:45:00.20
God. So all sin. We're not again
doing...But we have to deal with
00:45:00.23\00:45:03.77
these things in the church
and people can't just go about
00:45:03.80\00:45:08.10
making statements. Because
that's exactly what Sunday
00:45:08.14\00:45:11.94
pastors say about the Sabbath.
Well you know I think all the
00:45:11.97\00:45:13.64
commandments are important but
on the Sabbath one I really just
00:45:13.68\00:45:16.75
that's you know it's really up
to a decision. People are free
00:45:16.78\00:45:21.12
moral agents and it can be an
exception that we don't have to
00:45:21.15\00:45:24.52
do it. But we as Adventists,
we jump over sin like what, what
00:45:24.55\00:45:28.56
are you talking about? There's
10 commandments. You've got to
00:45:28.59\00:45:30.96
keep all 10 of
those commandments.
00:45:30.99\00:45:32.99
You see but when it's
a different one and we're
00:45:33.03\00:45:36.97
emotionally involved then we
say well maybe...but so, anyway.
00:45:37.00\00:45:40.74
James, we've got a couple
of minutes What do you say?
00:45:40.77\00:45:44.04
Well you know mankind has
been given a free will. We had a
00:45:44.07\00:45:47.08
question come in about this. And
a woman has a right to choose an
00:45:47.11\00:45:50.65
abortion but does that mean that
choosing an abortion is not a
00:45:50.68\00:45:54.12
sin in God's sight? You know
mankind chose to sin and they
00:45:54.15\00:45:57.82
had the right to choose and even
God supported the right for us
00:45:57.85\00:46:01.79
to choose. Otherwise, we'd
be mere robots. But this choice
00:46:01.82\00:46:05.53
comes with a consequence,
an awful consequence. So yes a
00:46:05.56\00:46:10.07
woman can choose to sin but
aborting the baby just like a
00:46:10.10\00:46:13.00
thief can choose to steal and a
liar can choose to lie. But the
00:46:13.03\00:46:17.17
consequences of choosing
the abortion is murder. So what
00:46:17.21\00:46:19.61
we say to someone who wanted to
murder their own child. You say
00:46:19.64\00:46:22.98
I support your right to choose
to murder your own child or
00:46:23.01\00:46:26.11
would we say no please do not
use your free choice to murder
00:46:26.15\00:46:30.25
your child. As believers we
can't force people to choose not
00:46:30.29\00:46:33.56
to sin, however, and this is
huge we cannot support sin in
00:46:33.59\00:46:38.66
anything. We cannot say that
abortion is not sin in God's
00:46:38.69\00:46:41.40
sight. Therefore, while we
recognize that women have this
00:46:41.43\00:46:44.33
free choice we cannot in any way
say that free choice to have an
00:46:44.37\00:46:48.00
abortion is anything less than
the murder of an innocent baby.
00:46:48.04\00:46:50.67
And we can't take an exception
to destroy the rule. God has a
00:46:50.71\00:46:56.01
rule. This is the fifth
commandment or the sixth
00:46:56.04\00:46:58.45
commandment. We can't say these
exceptions can do away with that
00:46:58.48\00:47:00.78
rule. You know I before e except
after c but exception doesn't
00:47:00.82\00:47:03.75
destroy the rule i before e.
00:47:03.79\00:47:07.72
And Ryan we have to...I know
we're getting ready to close out
00:47:07.76\00:47:10.83
But we have to make our
decisions not based on culture
00:47:10.86\00:47:14.20
not based on politics. And if I
had time I wanted to go into it
00:47:14.23\00:47:19.07
more because as I was saying
the left wouldn't like what I
00:47:19.10\00:47:22.24
have to say and the right
doesn't like...way back as far
00:47:22.27\00:47:24.41
as I had one preacher challenge
me; say something about
00:47:24.44\00:47:28.61
Christian nationalism which I'd
never heard that word. Or say
00:47:28.64\00:47:30.95
something to the right. You
won't do that. That's absolutely
00:47:30.98\00:47:33.88
when Jerry Falwell came up with
moral majority and I saw where
00:47:33.92\00:47:38.45
it was going and then Pat
Robertson. I didn't vote for Pat
00:47:38.49\00:47:41.22
Robertson, wouldn't have because
why? I realize what they're
00:47:41.26\00:47:44.56
trying to do is establish the
government, in other words, put
00:47:44.59\00:47:48.80
in place politicians who will
make laws forcing people to do
00:47:48.83\00:47:54.04
what they want. So I'm against
that part of the right. So I
00:47:54.07\00:47:56.40
will say that to the whole world
But the left when you see how
00:47:56.44\00:48:00.01
Godless they are, wanting to do
away with God, do away with His
00:48:00.04\00:48:04.11
commandments, do away with...
I mean, and accept homosexuality
00:48:04.15\00:48:08.32
abortion, all of these things
even after the child is born.
00:48:08.35\00:48:12.15
I mean, that's just unthinkable.
So what happens have the people
00:48:12.19\00:48:16.12
on the right the Christians were
watching people on the left and
00:48:16.16\00:48:20.60
when they came with Roe vs.
Wade and then they said, Man our
00:48:20.63\00:48:23.37
country's getting ungodly, let's
go so...What happened we're all
00:48:23.40\00:48:27.60
in a boat and the right fell out
and the left fell out and the
00:48:27.64\00:48:29.50
boat's empty just about because
people fall out on one side of
00:48:29.54\00:48:33.01
the boat or the other and that's
where we are today. So for us to
00:48:33.04\00:48:37.38
get caught up in politics to the
point you know, I'm republican
00:48:37.41\00:48:40.98
and I'm democrat, you know
whatever. We have to be very
00:48:41.02\00:48:45.35
careful about doing that because
the only party that will last
00:48:45.39\00:48:48.86
for eternity is Jesus' party.
So let's be on the side of Jesus
00:48:48.89\00:48:52.96
and on His party. But no. We
can't go by the left and I can
00:48:52.99\00:48:56.56
tell you now, if when I
talk about things like the group
00:48:56.60\00:49:00.84
organization Black Lives Matter
and talk about the ungodly and
00:49:00.87\00:49:05.07
lawlessness of it people...I'll
get 2000 emails people upset
00:49:05.11\00:49:09.61
about it but lawlessness and
righteousness don't meet up so
00:49:09.64\00:49:12.21
I don't really care what they
say. Will I say the same thing
00:49:12.25\00:49:15.58
about white supremacists or
KKK? Absolutely. Lawlessness and
00:49:15.62\00:49:21.19
righteousness does not match up,
they don't mix and so we can't
00:49:21.22\00:49:25.83
be over here on the right
defending this. We can't be on
00:49:25.86\00:49:29.16
the left but just because we
talk about it sin is sin is sin.
00:49:29.20\00:49:32.63
And so we have to stand up while
we have time and have a voice to
00:49:32.67\00:49:37.37
do it. James, we want to do
another program with you. We
00:49:37.41\00:49:41.98
don't have time today but
there's so much going around
00:49:42.01\00:49:43.35
about America in prophecy, some
stuff I've never heard before
00:49:43.38\00:49:46.75
and I feel like we're having a
hard time saying even within our
00:49:46.78\00:49:50.19
church we're having some
differences. And I know you've
00:49:50.22\00:49:52.49
been doing a tremendous
amount of study so we'd like to
00:49:52.52\00:49:55.22
dedicate a whole program come
back with you as soon as we can
00:49:55.26\00:49:58.96
I'll come back with my democrat/
republican tie. See I've got
00:49:58.99\00:50:03.16
both colors right here. Because
we need to let go. We need to
00:50:03.20\00:50:07.14
love everyone. That's what the
gospel is all about. (Yeah yeah)
00:50:07.17\00:50:10.94
You know I have friends that
support both of the things that
00:50:10.97\00:50:16.88
we are preaching against today.
Because the Bible addresses the
00:50:16.91\00:50:20.62
issue clear. And I have friends
that are going to watch this
00:50:20.65\00:50:23.89
program and I'm going to get
messages and they're going to...
00:50:23.92\00:50:26.79
I can't believe you. And these
are people that I love, people
00:50:26.82\00:50:28.32
that you know these are my
friends and family that I love
00:50:28.36\00:50:31.13
dearly and I'm just going to
address them. You know I love my
00:50:31.16\00:50:34.96
friends and I love my family.
You know who you are. And the
00:50:35.00\00:50:37.83
situation is that I
want everyone to like me as a
00:50:37.87\00:50:41.24
minister. I think as ministers
we want people to like us, we
00:50:41.27\00:50:43.54
want people to love us and we
want people to support us but at
00:50:43.57\00:50:45.87
the end of the day I want
God to like me more and I have a
00:50:45.91\00:50:49.84
responsibility as a minister
that even in those difficult
00:50:49.88\00:50:52.75
situations when having to
address these difficult issues
00:50:52.78\00:50:55.22
there are ministers that
compromise, they sugarcoat,
00:50:55.25\00:50:57.39
they water down because they're
terrified to say what needs to
00:50:57.42\00:50:59.65
say what needs to be said
because they're going to lose a
00:50:59.69\00:51:02.56
friend, they're going to lose
support. And you know, I don't
00:51:02.59\00:51:04.79
want that either. My human side
says I don't want to lose my
00:51:04.83\00:51:07.60
friends and I don't want my
friends to think negative of me.
00:51:07.63\00:51:11.23
But I also want to go to heaven
and I also want to be grounded
00:51:11.27\00:51:16.54
in Jesus Christ so I have to
preach the word. The Bible makes
00:51:16.57\00:51:18.84
it very clear that we are to be
sanctified by the word, His word
00:51:18.87\00:51:22.54
is truth.
00:51:22.58\00:51:23.91
Absolutely. And remember
silence is deadly because we
00:51:23.95\00:51:28.18
will be held accountable when we
don't stand up against open sin.
00:51:28.22\00:51:31.45
When we see things coming in our
church that are wrong we need to
00:51:31.49\00:51:34.92
hold our leaders and our church
boards accountable. I'm not just
00:51:34.96\00:51:38.39
talking about General Conference
whomever. Our local boards,
00:51:38.43\00:51:42.86
start there. Hold them
accountable when you see them
00:51:42.90\00:51:45.37
compromising or diluting the
word of God because being silent
00:51:45.40\00:51:49.10
that blood will be on our hands
I really believe and it's going
00:51:49.14\00:51:52.51
cost many, many souls. We
have to call sin for what it is.
00:51:52.54\00:51:55.78
Today's culture, we talked about
some of the things but we need
00:51:55.81\00:51:58.95
to come back and do some
more programs and show how sin
00:51:58.98\00:52:03.28
progresses when we compromise.
And James we got to do that
00:52:03.32\00:52:06.55
program on you also.
00:52:06.59\00:52:10.46
That's right. And the word of
God is powerful, the word of God
00:52:10.49\00:52:11.83
is clear and you know we need
not be confused on these issues.
00:52:11.86\00:52:14.33
So it's been a great time
talking with you guys. We're not
00:52:14.36\00:52:16.56
quite through yet though. My
friends we're going to take a
00:52:16.60\00:52:19.83
short break and we're going
to come back with some final
00:52:19.87\00:52:21.97
thoughts in just a few moments.
So don't go anywhere. We'll
00:52:22.00\00:52:24.71
be right back.
00:52:24.74\00:52:26.07