¤ ¤
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¤ I want to spend my
life mending broken people ¤
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¤ I want to spend
my life removing pain ¤
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¤ Lord let my words
heal a heart that hurts ¤
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¤ I want to spend my
life mending broken people ¤
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¤ ¤
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today.
I'm Yvonne Shelton and I'm so
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excited. We have such an amazing
program for you today. You're
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going to be blessed and inspired
by the grace of God because we
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are going to talk about a
subject that is near and dear to
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so many of our hearts. All of us
are either caught up in or have
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a loved one who is caught up
into some kind of stronghold.
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And we're going to talk
about strongholds today with our
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guests. I have a scripture
that I'd like to share. It's
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2 Corinthians 10 verses 3-5. And
it says: For though we walk in
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the flesh we do not war
according to the flesh. For the
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weapons of our warfare are
not carnal but mighty in God for
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pulling down strongholds,
casting down arguments and
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every high thing that exalts
itself against the knowledge of
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God bringing every thought into
captivity to the obedience of
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Christ. Today we're going to
talk about pulling down those
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strongholds and so after
our special music I'm going to
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introduce you to our guests
and we are going to be blessed.
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Our special music is by
none other than my dear friend,
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Reggie Smith who is going to
be singing I Have Fixed My Mind.
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¤ ¤
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¤I have fixed my mind on
another time, on another time ¤
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¤ And here I mean to stand
until God gives me more light ¤
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¤ And that is today,
today today until He comes ¤
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¤I have fixed my mine on
another time, on another time ¤
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¤ I have set my
course on the narrow way ¤
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¤ On the narrow way ¤
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¤ For I know the
time is close at hand ¤
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¤ for which I watch and pray ¤
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¤ And that is today,
today today until He comes ¤
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¤ I have set my
course on the narrow way ¤
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¤ On the narrow way ¤
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¤ Even so Lord come quickly
This is my fervent prayer ¤
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¤ For I've caught
a Glimpse of glory ¤
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¤ And I'm longing to be there ¤
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¤ ¤
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When shall the Son of Man appear
The trumpet sound its blast ¤
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¤ And Christ descend in glorious
fire With all the saints amassed
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¤ We'll rise with
those Who sleep no more ¤
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¤ To meet Him in the air ¤
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When shall the Son of Man
appear The Son of Man appear ¤
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¤ Even so Lord come quickly
this is my fervent prayer ¤
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¤ For I've caught
a glimpse of glory ¤
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¤ and I'm longing to be there ¤
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¤ For I've caught
a glimpse of glory ¤
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¤ and I'm longing to be there ¤
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¤ I have fixed my
mind on another time ¤
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¤ On another time ¤
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Thank you so much, Reggie. I
just love Reggie and Ladye Love.
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They are just such a blessing.
Every time I hear them sing I'm
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so blessed. So thank you so much
for being with us and now I'm
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going to introduce our wonderful
guests. I have to tell you, you
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know sometimes you just have
favorite ministries and favorite
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people and these are two of
my favorite people right here.
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Michael Carducci who is
the cofounder and chairman of
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Coming Out Ministries, and
Pastor Ron Woolsey who is a
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cofounder of Coming Out
Ministries. And I have known you
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guys for quite some time now and
I am so impressed with what God
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is doing through you with this
ministry. Because it is so much
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broader than what people might
expect. So let's talk a bit
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about Coming Out Ministries.
Excuse me, but first, let's talk
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a bit about you because some of
our viewers and our audience on
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radio and television might not
be familiar with you and so talk
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about who you are, where
you come from and Coming Out
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Ministries, how
you got to form that.
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Sure. Well it actually started
12 years ago and there were five
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individuals that got together.
Ron was speaking in Soquel,
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California and we all decided
well you know let's go and check
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out this guy and so I had met
Wayne Blakely and then these two
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sisters, Lisa and Vinna Santos.
So we went to the camp meeting
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and we all met together and um
it was interesting. One of the
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people brought up, they go well
if one ministry is good that has
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one story, imagine what a
ministry would be like if it had
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five stories. And that's kind
of how Coming Out Ministries was
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born.
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And I'd just like to add that we
were all speaking individually
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about our perspectives from our
testimonies and we did come to
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the consensus that working
united we'd have much greater
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impact than all of us
individually. And we still
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travel a lot individually but
as a team the impact was much
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greater than
everyone working individually.
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Yes, yes. So what is
Coming Out Ministries?
00:10:08.84\00:10:10.71
Well Coming Out Ministries is
really not...I think it's much
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broader now than just our catch
verse which was coming out of
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darkness into God's marvelous
light. I think of it as more
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like Revelation 18:4 and it says
Come out of her my people and be
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not partakers of her sins. So
it's much broader and a lot of
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people kind of pigeonhole
us into an ex-gay ministry but
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really we do just as much about
addressing pornography addiction
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premarital sex, abortion, as
well as the LGBT dilemma that's
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going on in our world
today. Our motto is, Igniting an
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unquenchable fire restoring all
men and women back to the image
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of our Creator God. And I think
that that's really what we've
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been looking for what the Lord
is going to accomplish you know
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from Genesis to Revelation
restoring us back to who we were
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meant to be.
00:11:02.86\00:11:04.89
Yes, so it's more than...you
started out being a group of
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people who came out from
the LGBTQ community and now it's
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so much broader than that. One
of the things I love about your
00:11:16.27\00:11:21.04
ministry is that it is so
much broader. It's not just
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focused... It's focused on sin
and victory. It's not focused on
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just one particular group and
one particular sin. Sexual sin
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is a huge umbrella and you guys
focus on getting victory from
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that stronghold.
00:11:41.13\00:11:42.90
Well Yvonne, it kind of revealed
itself. You know we had always
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been marginalized and we'd
always felt that we were not a
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part of something or felt
like we didn't belong. But when
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people started coming up to us
and saying, Oh I was never gay
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but everything that you said I
really relate to. So it's really
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about victory over sin. Somebody
even called us the a, oh what is
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it, the...you know it's like the
issue of the day. It's like this
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is really about victory over
sin and righteousness by faith.
00:12:10.79\00:12:14.63
So they kind of opened our eyes
a little bit and said Oh so it's
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much broader than just coming
out of the gay culture. It's
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really about coming out of sin.
00:12:20.67\00:12:22.07
Yes, yes.
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You know in the church today
not just in the world but in the
00:12:23.64\00:12:26.68
church today the thinking is
that people can just be saved
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in their LGBT issues. This issue
is being used to shed a great
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deal of light on the two
ideologies of salvation in sin
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or salvation from sin. And
for some reason you know Satan
00:12:47.13\00:12:52.43
thinks he's so clever that he's
found one issue where he thinks
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he has God over a barrel.
Because even in the church
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people will say well God made
you that way or God loves you
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just the way you are. And
there's this movement to embrace
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homosexuality, not adultery, but
homosexuality, not alcoholism
00:13:09.78\00:13:16.62
but homosexuality. In other
words they're taking this one
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issue and separating it from the
basket of sins and looking at it
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through a cultural perspective.
And so there's a movement now
00:13:27.37\00:13:32.47
throughout Christianity called
posture shift that is trying to
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get the church to shift its
position on this one issue. I
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don't know why not all issues
but this one issue to shift away
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from the Biblical approach to
accommodate and to embrace, to
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affirm homosexuality or the LGBT
community. So that is looking at
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scripture through the lens
of culture but we believe now we
00:14:00.44\00:14:04.37
need to view culture through
the lens of scripture and rather
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than the church changing its
position we're trying to help
00:14:07.68\00:14:11.41
the sinner change his position
to come back to being in harmony
00:14:11.45\00:14:18.42
with Biblical principles.
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That is such...you gave us
so much to chew on right there
00:14:19.89\00:14:23.96
because that's what's going
on. I think combining the LGBTQ
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issue with civil rights was
something that made more people
00:14:33.90\00:14:41.21
open to saying well a person is
born this way or this is a group
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that needs to be protected so
to speak. And yeah, we do need
00:14:47.38\00:14:54.46
to protect every group but
the point is that what does that
00:14:54.49\00:14:58.79
protection mean? Does that mean
that we endorse it as Christians
00:14:58.83\00:15:03.06
or does that mean that we try to
help people who are in that life
00:15:03.10\00:15:07.90
style, in that community,
help them to see that there's a
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better way that God has for them
and I think it's all about love,
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is it not? Not loving endorsing
but loving enough to tell them
00:15:16.28\00:15:22.25
that there's a better way.
00:15:22.28\00:15:23.95
Well you know as long as
this issue is separated from the
00:15:23.99\00:15:27.82
category of sin there's no
hope. And it was when in my own
00:15:27.86\00:15:32.73
personal life, I know Mike you
had the same experience, when we
00:15:32.76\00:15:37.60
came to the position of
acknowledging this is a sin
00:15:37.63\00:15:40.84
issue. Put it back in the
sin basket. And then apply the
00:15:40.87\00:15:45.64
Biblical remedy for sin. That's
when I could walk away. Not
00:15:45.67\00:15:50.45
without a struggle. I mean
we all struggle with temptation.
00:15:50.48\00:15:54.52
But struggle just makes you
stronger. But I was hopeless
00:15:54.55\00:15:59.45
as long as I was justifying
my life as an acceptable
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alternative lifestyle or I
was born this way or God made me
00:16:04.13\00:16:08.60
this way. But when I read
in Jeremiah 3, Only acknowledge
00:16:08.63\00:16:11.83
thine iniquity and then I will
heal you from your backsliding.
00:16:11.87\00:16:16.60
That's when I was able...That's
when I got hope and I developed
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a courage to take a step because
He promised that if I would just
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acknowledge this as a sin issue,
it's not a birth defect, it's a
00:16:28.38\00:16:32.65
sin issue, and then God can help
and can work miracles in our
00:16:32.69\00:16:37.79
lives.
00:16:37.83\00:16:39.16
So I kind of want to pull
what I've been hearing together
00:16:39.19\00:16:41.73
because the verse that you said
Everything that exalts itself
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above God and so you were also
talking like where did this come
00:16:44.77\00:16:48.60
from, this posture shift. Well
for many years, and the reason
00:16:48.64\00:16:52.17
why we left the church when we
were young was because the only
00:16:52.21\00:16:55.74
message that we heard
was Christianity was making
00:16:55.78\00:16:59.05
exclusive the homosexual sin out
of 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and
00:16:59.08\00:17:02.25
they were exalting that as the
sin that God just can't help,
00:17:02.28\00:17:05.19
that God hates that sin so much.
So now what we find is that it's
00:17:05.22\00:17:10.36
still being exalted. It was
drawn out of all of the other
00:17:10.39\00:17:13.66
sins verses 9 and 10, and it's
made exclusive and you really
00:17:13.70\00:17:18.20
hit the nail on the head. It's
like if we take it out of this
00:17:18.23\00:17:21.37
group of people because verse 11
says such were some of you that
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gave me hope. That was the verse
that we weren't hearing in our
00:17:25.24\00:17:29.01
church culture when we left
the church culture into the gay
00:17:29.04\00:17:32.21
culture. But now Coming Out now
it's being exalted again and it
00:17:32.25\00:17:35.82
is, it's still denying
people access to the power to be
00:17:35.85\00:17:39.35
restored and to
be redeemed. (yeah)
00:17:39.39\00:17:41.02
And that was such a pivotal text
for me when someone showed me
00:17:41.06\00:17:45.36
1 Corinthians 6:9-11. And these
are people or behaviors that
00:17:45.39\00:17:49.46
would not be in heaven and I
found myself in there three or
00:17:49.50\00:17:53.13
four times (laughter) three or
four times and then the fellow
00:17:53.17\00:17:58.67
said look at verse 11, such were
some of you. I go whoa. That was
00:17:58.71\00:18:05.75
so dynamic. I mean it was
so impactful for me. But ye are
00:18:05.78\00:18:12.15
washed, ye are you know
sanctified, justified and I go
00:18:12.19\00:18:18.09
wow. There again the
scriptures give the remedy.
00:18:18.13\00:18:22.20
Can I read that scripture so the
audience can hear because they
00:18:22.23\00:18:26.50
might not be familiar with it.
It's 1 Corinthians 6 verses 9-11
00:18:26.53\00:18:31.74
Do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the
00:18:31.77\00:18:35.88
kingdom of God. Do not be
deceived, neither fornicators
00:18:35.91\00:18:40.05
nor idolators nor adulterers
nor homosexuals nor sodomites
00:18:40.08\00:18:44.69
nor thieves nor covetous
nor drunkards nor revilers nor
00:18:44.72\00:18:48.39
extortioners will inherit
the kingdom of God and such were
00:18:48.42\00:18:52.73
some of you, but you were washed
but you were sanctified but you
00:18:52.76\00:18:59.33
were justified in the name of
the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit
00:18:59.37\00:19:02.97
of our God. (Amen) And that is
so hopeful. It's saying yes you
00:19:03.00\00:19:08.04
were here but now you're here.
You're no longer that. You can
00:19:08.08\00:19:12.71
have victory over that.
And it doesn't just isolate
00:19:12.75\00:19:16.85
homosexuality. It puts all of
these sins together under the...
00:19:16.89\00:19:22.66
And the King James Version
is even clearer because it says
00:19:22.69\00:19:26.13
such WERE some of you but ye
ARE justified, sanctified, and
00:19:26.16\00:19:33.07
washed So I love
that. That's clearer.
00:19:33.10\00:19:36.00
Yeah, this is the New King James
00:19:37.11\00:19:38.44
It's much clearer. (Yeah)
00:19:38.47\00:19:39.81
I think what's also beautiful
about that verse is that it
00:19:39.84\00:19:42.24
talks about you're justified,
sanctified and it's not
00:19:42.28\00:19:44.75
a power, it's not something that
we could do. So you know when
00:19:44.78\00:19:47.95
somebody said I was born this
way you know I give that to them
00:19:47.98\00:19:50.49
it's like yeah you're right.
I could never change. Yes you're
00:19:50.52\00:19:53.15
right, I couldn't change either.
This is work that only Jesus
00:19:53.19\00:19:55.72
Christ can do. So when you
make one of those sins exclusive
00:19:55.76\00:20:01.50
you've now cut them off from the
sanctifying and the justifying
00:20:01.53\00:20:04.87
process of what Jesus died on
the cross to give to all of us.
00:20:04.90\00:20:08.57
So that's not love, that's lost.
00:20:08.60\00:20:11.44
Yes, yes, yes, Some of our
viewers and our radio audience
00:20:11.47\00:20:15.34
might not be familiar with your
testimony. If you guys could
00:20:15.38\00:20:19.55
just give a synopsis of where
God brought you from to where
00:20:19.58\00:20:23.25
you are now.
00:20:23.28\00:20:25.15
Sure Um when I was four years
old my first conscious thought
00:20:25.19\00:20:27.96
that I could remember was that
I was a girl trapped in a boy's
00:20:27.99\00:20:31.36
body. And I didn't realize
that there was a difference, a
00:20:31.39\00:20:35.10
detachment that happened between
me and my father and as I grew
00:20:35.13\00:20:39.47
up I was reminded that I
was inadequate because of my
00:20:39.50\00:20:43.57
feminine mannerisms
after patterning after my mom.
00:20:43.61\00:20:45.57
I only liked playing with dolls,
I liked dressing up in her
00:20:45.61\00:20:48.68
clothes. Kids in school that
saw my mannerisms would call me
00:20:48.71\00:20:52.28
sissy, queer, little girl and
what that did is this lack of
00:20:52.31\00:20:55.58
masculine affirmation just
drove me into these feelings of
00:20:55.62\00:20:59.32
inadequacy, so I thought well if
I'm inadequate as a boy maybe if
00:20:59.35\00:21:02.09
I was a girl I would be loved.
Maybe I would be accepted. That
00:21:02.12\00:21:05.66
followed me until I was 20 years
old and at 20 years old I even
00:21:05.69\00:21:08.76
thought as a Christian that the
only solution, because at 13 I
00:21:08.80\00:21:12.37
had same-sex attraction. I
wasn't born gay. That actually
00:21:12.40\00:21:15.94
developed or revealed itself
when I was 13 again because of
00:21:15.97\00:21:19.87
the lack of affirmation and love
that I wasn't receiving from
00:21:19.91\00:21:23.95
males that became sexualized at
puberty. So then I thought okay
00:21:23.98\00:21:28.98
well if God doesn't approve
of homosexuality and I have
00:21:29.02\00:21:32.99
attractions to men then if I
change my body then God will be
00:21:33.02\00:21:36.52
okay with that right because
then I'll be you know a female
00:21:36.56\00:21:39.26
and my attractions will be okay.
So that followed me until I was
00:21:39.29\00:21:42.36
20. But when I walked out of
church culture and into the gay
00:21:42.40\00:21:46.30
culture I found that masculinity
was more valuable than
00:21:46.33\00:21:50.54
femininity so that if I butched
it up and work at it in the gym
00:21:50.57\00:21:52.91
I found that I got all the
attention from men. I never
00:21:52.94\00:21:55.21
struggled with that again. So
then 20 years of living in the
00:21:55.24\00:21:59.05
gay culture hoping that I would
have a relationship with just
00:21:59.08\00:22:02.58
one person and that maybe
God would just accept that I was
00:22:02.62\00:22:05.95
just doing the best I could. But
after 20 years of that, sexually
00:22:05.99\00:22:10.49
addicted, in five significant
relationships, I found myself
00:22:10.53\00:22:14.60
once again being invited to
accept Jesus' grace and only
00:22:14.63\00:22:18.73
because I had three sisters that
were praying for me. I'm still
00:22:18.77\00:22:21.97
amazed that that invitation came
around again and that was 22
00:22:22.00\00:22:24.97
years ago.
00:22:25.17\00:22:27.18
Wow, wow. So 22 years ago you
accepted the Lord Jesus Christ
00:22:27.21\00:22:31.85
into your life and
you've been walking with Him...
00:22:31.88\00:22:34.42
Yes, with a boyfriend. Yeah. And
an addiction. And the Lord was
00:22:34.45\00:22:37.49
so patient in that process
and you know nobody should have
00:22:37.52\00:22:41.46
baptized somebody like me but
you know God was taking me on
00:22:41.49\00:22:44.89
this journey and I believe
that He knew that I needed to be
00:22:44.93\00:22:48.50
baptized to begin that journey
out of all of that confusion.
00:22:48.53\00:22:51.43
Yeah, here I am.
00:22:51.47\00:22:54.30
Wow, look at God. Look at
God. You know so many people...I
00:22:54.34\00:23:00.04
think one of the things that
I've heard over the years about
00:23:00.08\00:23:01.81
people in the LGBTQ communities
that when they are in their own
00:23:01.84\00:23:06.65
environment there's total
acceptance and love and that
00:23:06.68\00:23:09.82
they can feel you know loved and
appreciated. And I think if we
00:23:09.85\00:23:15.76
could just show love to people
who are going through this.
00:23:15.79\00:23:20.06
Again not an endorsement of the
lifestyle just like you wouldn't
00:23:20.10\00:23:23.26
endorse somebody who's in
adultery. You know but you love
00:23:23.30\00:23:26.60
them through it. They can
have a safe space to share their
00:23:26.63\00:23:31.44
journey. What
about you Pastor Ron?
00:23:31.47\00:23:32.91
Let me just add to that about
being loved in the gay community
00:23:32.94\00:23:35.88
It is a counterfeit because if
God is not in the mix then that
00:23:35.91\00:23:41.52
love does come up short. (That's
a good point) And it is a love
00:23:41.55\00:23:47.29
that is I like to call it a
cheap love. It's really more of
00:23:47.32\00:23:50.96
a self-focused love again
because without God in the mix
00:23:50.99\00:23:57.27
it is a self-focus rather than
an outward focus. But I think
00:23:57.30\00:24:03.64
I was conditioned through
a warped perspective on life.
00:24:03.67\00:24:07.91
As I was growing up I was
actually molested when I was
00:24:07.94\00:24:13.05
four and I was repeatedly
violated when I was grade school
00:24:13.08\00:24:16.55
as a young person. And I
did have this perception of
00:24:16.58\00:24:19.52
rejection. I didn't feel like
I fit in. Because I think when a
00:24:19.55\00:24:23.66
little boy is molested by an
older boy or a man it tends to
00:24:23.69\00:24:29.36
rob him of his masculinity. It
robs him of his manhood and so
00:24:29.40\00:24:33.34
I grew up with that warped
perspective. My parents had no
00:24:33.37\00:24:37.81
idea. I found out years later
that they were very loving and
00:24:37.84\00:24:41.41
very caring parents. But I had
that warped perspective. So I
00:24:41.44\00:24:46.55
was always longing for male
acceptance. I didn't feel like I
00:24:46.58\00:24:50.12
was getting it through my father
and the male members of the
00:24:50.15\00:24:55.06
family in my life. And so I
had this void. The gay community
00:24:55.09\00:25:01.36
will fill those voids. You know
Satan would love to step in and
00:25:01.40\00:25:06.07
fill the voids in your
life if they're not filled by a
00:25:06.10\00:25:10.87
wholesome relationship and by
God. In my youth, I thought that
00:25:10.91\00:25:19.21
marriage would take care of all
of the confusion because I was a
00:25:19.25\00:25:23.15
spiritual young person. I
actually started to be a pastor/
00:25:23.18\00:25:27.92
medical
00:25:27.96\00:25:29.52
missionary, taking premed and
theology. But my confusion was
00:25:29.56\00:25:33.93
so great I thought well if I
just get married it'll take care
00:25:33.96\00:25:37.67
of everything. Well I think
anyone that's ever been married
00:25:37.70\00:25:41.14
is married knows that being
married is the beginning of woes
00:25:41.17\00:25:45.91
But you never
00:25:45.94\00:25:47.28
imagine if you're not married
for the right reason or the
00:25:47.31\00:25:48.68
right person with the blessing
of God and with the right
00:25:48.71\00:25:52.01
chemistry. And you know I chose
to have a Christian home and to
00:25:52.05\00:25:58.65
make Christian babies and have
a Christian education and all of
00:25:58.69\00:26:01.56
that but I realized very quickly
I'd made a terrible mistake.
00:26:01.59\00:26:04.23
And I ended up falling into the
gay culture and breaking up my
00:26:04.26\00:26:08.16
marriage and lived that way
for many years. But even with a
00:26:08.20\00:26:11.00
degree in theology I did
not have an understanding of
00:26:11.03\00:26:16.17
salvation from sin. And I'm not
the only one. I've met a number
00:26:16.20\00:26:21.11
of people with that same
misconception about the plan
00:26:21.14\00:26:23.98
of salvation. But I too had
praying family, praying parents.
00:26:24.01\00:26:28.25
They would not let me go through
their intercessory prayers. They
00:26:28.28\00:26:32.15
loved me unconditionally, loved
my friends and the Lord worked
00:26:32.19\00:26:37.29
through that to draw. And I
didn't have piece I didn't have
00:26:37.33\00:26:42.06
rest with my situation and I
finally turned to the word of
00:26:42.10\00:26:45.93
God looking for answers and I
know I tell this story all the
00:26:45.97\00:26:49.90
time. I started out with
a margarita in one hand a
00:26:49.94\00:26:53.44
cigarette in the other reading
Steps to Christ. And that's how
00:26:53.48\00:26:56.91
I started my journey back. But
the Lord worked through all of
00:26:56.95\00:27:00.48
that and I found all of my
answers through the word of God.
00:27:00.52\00:27:04.32
Previously I went through
counseling with my wife before
00:27:04.35\00:27:11.03
I divorced and we were told that
that kind could never change.
00:27:11.06\00:27:15.76
And that left me bitter and
angry against God and the church
00:27:15.80\00:27:19.63
and pastors because...
00:27:19.67\00:27:21.30
Even that expression, that kind
00:27:21.34\00:27:22.97
That kind yeah that kind. It
was very demeaning but I never
00:27:23.00\00:27:29.74
really could fully accept
that. So as I studied for myself
00:27:29.78\00:27:34.15
rather than for the professors
I was no longer studying for a
00:27:34.18\00:27:38.09
degree. I had that. Now I was
studying for my survival. And
00:27:38.12\00:27:41.19
then I found the answers
because in studying for myself I
00:27:41.22\00:27:44.03
developed a relationship with
the Lord. And when I got to the
00:27:44.06\00:27:48.16
point where I loved the Lord
more than I loved my gay life
00:27:48.20\00:27:52.37
then I was able to make
the break. And a Godly love is
00:27:52.40\00:27:57.54
really a very key stepping stone
and a turning point in the life.
00:27:57.57\00:28:02.08
And then within a year, I
was married again. We had more
00:28:02.11\00:28:07.12
children, more Christian babies.
We made more Christian babies.
00:28:07.15\00:28:10.59
Now we have more children. I've
been in ministry at least 30
00:28:10.62\00:28:15.62
years now. And having been on
both sides of the issue, I can
00:28:15.66\00:28:20.50
vouch for the fact that God's
way's better. Father does know
00:28:20.53\00:28:25.50
best. And Satan is a deceiver.
He's a counterfeiter and his
00:28:25.53\00:28:31.37
love for you is not really love.
His love is really a disguised
00:28:31.41\00:28:36.95
hate for Jesus. And he will
make you think that his way is a
00:28:36.98\00:28:42.92
loving way when really it's
a way of hate and destruction.
00:28:42.95\00:28:45.82
And God's way is a way of life.
00:28:45.85\00:28:48.59
Yes, I love the fact that you've
been able to see it from both
00:28:48.62\00:28:54.16
sides and that you can say, This
is the better place to be in,
00:28:54.20\00:28:57.87
both of you can say this is
the better place to be in. And I
00:28:57.90\00:29:02.30
think you know we've all had one
kind of stronghold or another
00:29:02.34\00:29:06.11
and this is the better place to
be in because we know that the
00:29:06.14\00:29:11.08
Lord will give us victory
and the Lord's not sitting there
00:29:11.11\00:29:13.72
waiting to zap you. I think so
many people when they're dealing
00:29:13.75\00:29:19.99
with people who have strongholds
a lot of Christians are very
00:29:20.02\00:29:22.82
condemning, very negative. It's
not a safe space. Who would want
00:29:22.86\00:29:29.26
to talk about that with them.
And that's why I love you guys'
00:29:29.30\00:29:33.44
ministries so much because
people of all different groups
00:29:33.47\00:29:37.71
under this one umbrella of
sexual sin can come and say hey
00:29:37.74\00:29:43.14
how did you guys get free from
the thing that was holding you
00:29:43.18\00:29:48.15
that was binding you so much?
So tell us, walk us through,
00:29:48.18\00:29:52.72
what...when people come to
you how do you meet their needs?
00:29:52.75\00:29:57.06
What do you do for them?
00:29:57.09\00:29:58.43
Thank you for that. And I think
it's real important to address
00:29:58.46\00:30:01.63
the fact that it wasn't like an
immediate flipping of a switch
00:30:01.66\00:30:05.90
and Ron and I were redeemed
and all of that kind of stuff.
00:30:05.93\00:30:10.07
Mmm, that's a really good point.
00:30:10.11\00:30:11.44
Right, right. It's a process.
You know when we share the
00:30:11.47\00:30:14.48
stories of Mary Magdalene had to
be healed of demons seven times
00:30:14.51\00:30:19.01
and the general that had to
dip into the river seven times
00:30:19.05\00:30:22.38
before he was clean. It's like
wow it would have been a whole
00:30:22.42\00:30:24.55
lot more convenient if you just
hit me with that magic wand and
00:30:24.59\00:30:27.49
boom it was all over. But I
think that in the process of
00:30:27.52\00:30:30.66
that, the falling and getting
back up and the falling and
00:30:30.69\00:30:32.53
and getting back up, I think
that it helps any person that
00:30:32.56\00:30:38.03
says why do I still have those
thoughts and those feelings?
00:30:38.07\00:30:40.47
Why do I still have this draw
to that you know? And to address
00:30:40.50\00:30:46.14
that in a realistic way but in a
redemptive way saying that Jesus
00:30:46.17\00:30:50.31
would rather us struggle to
learn how to depend on Him for
00:30:50.35\00:30:54.58
each and everything rather than
if He just took it away for our
00:30:54.62\00:30:57.49
convenience and it didn't
improve our relationship with
00:30:57.52\00:31:00.09
Him at all. I find that I have
to hang onto Jesus Christ every
00:31:00.12\00:31:04.43
second of every day recognizing
that He doesn't take away the
00:31:04.46\00:31:08.20
thoughts and the feelings but
He promises to give us victory
00:31:08.23\00:31:11.00
over that. And so I think that
the first thing that we do to
00:31:11.03\00:31:15.27
relate to anybody is to let them
know that through our experience
00:31:15.30\00:31:18.57
we get you. We understand
what you're going through and
00:31:18.61\00:31:21.91
hopefully what they also
see is that wow change doesn't
00:31:21.94\00:31:26.78
necessarily come in the way that
you think it does, but change
00:31:26.82\00:31:29.68
will come because He promised it
00:31:29.72\00:31:31.59
Oh, that is so beautiful. And I
think it is really important for
00:31:31.62\00:31:36.83
people to know that it is a
process again just like getting
00:31:36.86\00:31:41.76
through any other kind of sin.
It is a process that depends
00:31:41.80\00:31:46.37
upon our relationship with Jesus
Christ. He, if we abide in Him,
00:31:46.40\00:31:51.17
you know John 15 If we
abide in Him, we can do anything
00:31:51.21\00:31:55.88
but if we let go of that
power source, we're lost.
00:31:55.91\00:31:59.41
And that is the key for
every sin is abiding in Christ.
00:31:59.45\00:32:05.95
You know Yvonne there's a great
misconception among well the gay
00:32:05.99\00:32:11.29
community, LGBT community,
in particular and I imagine it
00:32:11.33\00:32:15.60
spreads beyond that as well, but
the misconception is that, and
00:32:15.63\00:32:22.04
we've heard it many times,
people say Oh I've prayed the
00:32:22.07\00:32:24.41
Lord would take the gay away and
He didn't take it away, so it
00:32:24.44\00:32:28.04
must be okay. He made me this
way, He loves me this way, He
00:32:28.08\00:32:31.65
didn't take it away. And that's
such a terrible misconception
00:32:31.68\00:32:35.58
because God doesn't promise
to take away temptation. He
00:32:35.62\00:32:40.86
promises that His grace
is sufficient to meet that
00:32:40.89\00:32:44.43
temptation. If He took
everything away we'd be weak.
00:32:44.46\00:32:48.36
He says no, My strength is made
perfect in your weakness so He
00:32:48.40\00:32:54.74
promises to give us strength so
we try to help people see that
00:32:54.77\00:32:59.17
you don't need to identify
yourself by the nature of your
00:32:59.21\00:33:03.01
temptations. Don't think that
because you accept Christ that
00:33:03.04\00:33:07.35
you'll be free from temptation.
I've had people come to me and
00:33:07.38\00:33:11.25
ask when you accepted Jesus did
you stop being tempted in that
00:33:11.29\00:33:15.36
area and I say well I was
baptized, but Satan wasn't.
00:33:15.39\00:33:18.89
I chose a new direction for
my life. Satan didn't change his
00:33:18.93\00:33:24.03
methods and his behavior. So no.
And if you want to define me by
00:33:24.07\00:33:30.37
the nature of my temptations
what are you going to say about
00:33:30.41\00:33:34.31
Jesus who was tempted in
all points like as we are, yet
00:33:34.34\00:33:37.11
without sin. You're not going
to define Jesus by the nature of
00:33:37.15\00:33:41.52
temptation. Don't define me
by the nature of temptation. And
00:33:41.55\00:33:45.12
don't define yourself by
the nature of the things you're
00:33:45.15\00:33:49.59
struggling with. Because
struggle makes you strong.
00:33:49.62\00:33:53.43
So Jesus resisted unto blood
striving against sin then maybe
00:33:53.46\00:34:00.24
we will too. But just don't
define yourself by that. And
00:34:00.27\00:34:05.07
that to me was such a great help
to come to that realization that
00:34:05.11\00:34:10.05
temptation is not sin. And
temptation does not need to
00:34:10.08\00:34:14.35
identify. Satan has a customized
plan for everyone's life and
00:34:14.38\00:34:18.82
temptation reveals his plan for
your life, not God's plan and
00:34:18.85\00:34:24.83
not my plan. Because I don't
have to yield and I can choose
00:34:24.86\00:34:29.23
a different path. And we really
try to help people see that
00:34:29.26\00:34:32.70
because when they see that then
they stop getting so discouraged
00:34:32.73\00:34:36.57
over temptation. They realize
that they're in this great
00:34:36.60\00:34:40.58
controversy between Christ
and Satan and they can choose to
00:34:40.61\00:34:45.25
resist that and not identify
with that but identify with
00:34:45.28\00:34:48.92
Christ's plan for their
life in spite of the temptation.
00:34:48.95\00:34:50.89
That is such a good point.
Temptation itself is not sin.
00:34:50.92\00:34:55.86
It's what you do with it. It's
how you respond to it that's
00:34:55.89\00:35:00.73
sinful. So if a man sees a woman
walking down the street and
00:35:00.76\00:35:06.23
she's attractive, you
can acknowledge that she's
00:35:06.27\00:35:09.30
attractive but if he starts
gawking you know sweating and
00:35:09.34\00:35:13.58
stuff like that (laughs) lusting
letting the mind just...you know
00:35:13.61\00:35:19.18
and nurturing those thoughts
then that's another whole...
00:35:19.21\00:35:22.42
that's yielding to the
temptation. But the temptation
00:35:22.45\00:35:25.29
itself comes from the accuser
of the brethren, so of course he
00:35:25.32\00:35:28.52
wants to tempt. So I'm glad that
you are saying this because what
00:35:28.56\00:35:32.66
you're saying to us is that the
temptation doesn't necessarily
00:35:32.69\00:35:38.07
go away.
00:35:38.10\00:35:39.43
Or define you.
00:35:39.47\00:35:40.80
Or define you. Those are
two really important points. It
00:35:40.84\00:35:44.64
doesn't go away necessarily.
Because I think, I think some
00:35:44.67\00:35:47.28
people will say oh yeah now
they say they're saved so they
00:35:47.31\00:35:51.68
don't ever have any of these
temptations again. That's not...
00:35:51.71\00:35:55.22
We all have temptations.
00:35:55.25\00:35:57.49
I think it
misrepresents the gospel.
00:35:57.52\00:35:59.75
How? Tell us.
00:35:59.79\00:36:01.12
Because if you have this kind of
perfectionistic kind of you know
00:36:01.16\00:36:05.26
attitude about that then, then
you give me no hope because I'm
00:36:05.29\00:36:08.16
still struggling with those
thoughts and those feelings.
00:36:08.20\00:36:10.57
So I think the better thing is
to show that that dependency on
00:36:10.60\00:36:14.34
Christ is what's really going
to make it. You know the people
00:36:14.37\00:36:17.34
that get to heaven...Remember
Jesus said to those that you
00:36:17.37\00:36:20.98
know ran out of the oil, He goes
you know I'm sorry I don't know
00:36:21.01\00:36:23.71
you. It's only the people that
know Jesus Christ, that know
00:36:23.75\00:36:26.65
what it's like to hold onto you
know His grace and to beg and to
00:36:26.68\00:36:30.75
plead for it. I wouldn't beg and
plead for it if everything was
00:36:30.79\00:36:33.42
gone for my convenience and I
was perfect. I think that what
00:36:33.46\00:36:36.69
Ron said is His strength is made
perfect in my weakness. Lord,
00:36:36.73\00:36:40.96
I'm weak again. Lord, again
those thoughts. You know Lord
00:36:41.00\00:36:43.57
help me. You know that I think
is the intimacy of what Jesus is
00:36:43.60\00:36:47.17
really desperate for each one of
us. It's not a gay thing. It's
00:36:47.20\00:36:50.21
not a straight thing.
It's a sin thing right?
00:36:50.24\00:36:53.68
But we can...there is a biblical
principle that we can starve the
00:36:53.71\00:36:58.71
old and feed the new. And what
we feed gets stronger. What we
00:36:58.75\00:37:03.82
starve gets weaker. And you know
we're told in Corinthians about
00:37:03.85\00:37:07.89
bringing every thought into
captivity under the obedience of
00:37:07.92\00:37:11.59
Christ. And so Satan can throw
something our way but we can
00:37:11.63\00:37:15.63
flick it away. We can
immediately turn away from that.
00:37:15.66\00:37:19.17
I came up with this little
routine about flipping the
00:37:19.20\00:37:23.10
switch and changing the channel
and changing the subject and
00:37:23.14\00:37:25.77
turning the page and turning
my head you know as a way of
00:37:25.81\00:37:29.51
turning away from all those
things because you never know
00:37:29.54\00:37:32.15
when you're going to get hit in
the face, not literally, but you
00:37:32.18\00:37:36.89
know like a billboard or
something that flashes up on TV
00:37:36.92\00:37:40.06
or on your phone. And it's
what you do with it. If you
00:37:40.09\00:37:44.16
immediately bring that thought
into captivity and think about
00:37:44.19\00:37:47.33
something else then you're
starving the old, feeding the
00:37:47.36\00:37:49.53
new. Submit yourself therefore
to God, James says, then resist
00:37:49.56\00:37:54.44
the devil and he will flee
from you. So these things can
00:37:54.47\00:37:57.31
eventually, become nonissues
because you starved them.
00:37:57.34\00:38:01.18
And these are
strategies for strongholds.
00:38:01.21\00:38:04.65
I'm so glad you said that.
00:38:04.68\00:38:06.01
Love that segue.
00:38:06.05\00:38:08.42
I'm so excited because thank
you, thank you from the Lord.
00:38:08.45\00:38:11.49
We are going to talk about the
upcoming series that you have
00:38:11.52\00:38:15.79
Dare to Dream is producing
an upcoming series called
00:38:15.82\00:38:20.76
Strategies for Strongholds
featuring Coming Out Ministries.
00:38:20.80\00:38:24.80
Tell us what we're going to look
forward to with that. We have to
00:38:24.83\00:38:28.27
look forward to.
00:38:28.30\00:38:29.64
Wow! Well what's really been
amazing is we've been scrambling
00:38:29.67\00:38:34.18
trying to put together you know
different programs or whatever
00:38:34.21\00:38:37.55
and all of a sudden we found
ourselves with more than enough
00:38:37.58\00:38:41.32
people to interview. But we want
to be broad enough in our reach
00:38:41.35\00:38:44.99
to really address
sexual integrity and not just
00:38:45.02\00:38:48.32
make it about an
00:38:48.36\00:38:49.69
LGBT thing. And the reasons
why I think is to make it more
00:38:49.72\00:38:53.26
relevant to everybody that. A
lot of times Christians think oh
00:38:53.29\00:38:56.73
it's not my issue, change the
channel, when really it's all of
00:38:56.77\00:38:59.97
our issue, we're all humans,
we're all prone to you know
00:39:00.00\00:39:02.70
these thoughts and these
feelings. So we've lined up...
00:39:02.74\00:39:05.87
we're going to address issues
like adultery and abortion and
00:39:05.91\00:39:11.38
yeah, all kinds of stuff,
pornography addiction as well as
00:39:11.41\00:39:15.32
the LGBT experience.
00:39:15.35\00:39:16.95
You know when you talk about
strategies for strongholds there
00:39:16.99\00:39:20.36
are two kinds of strongholds.
And I think it's going to be
00:39:20.39\00:39:23.66
exciting to talk to people about
strategies that they came up
00:39:23.69\00:39:29.16
with, Biblical strategies,
to break down the strongholds of
00:39:29.20\00:39:32.93
addiction as you mentioned
earlier in that scripture but
00:39:32.97\00:39:36.24
also, we want to look at
strategies for building new
00:39:36.27\00:39:39.97
strongholds, strongholds
for victory. And so I'm excited
00:39:40.01\00:39:45.51
what's coming? And also we have
our program is not just about
00:39:45.55\00:39:52.29
LGBT issue as we've been
alluding to. Another passage of
00:39:52.32\00:39:57.19
scripture that we refer to is
Come out from among them and be
00:39:57.23\00:40:01.43
ye separate, you know from
sin and all of that. And we're
00:40:01.46\00:40:05.80
finding that many people relate
to our message not because it
00:40:05.83\00:40:09.44
comes from the ex-gay
perspective of and experience
00:40:09.47\00:40:14.44
but because it is about
overcoming sin period. I shared
00:40:14.48\00:40:19.91
with you earlier about this
prisoner that just contacted me
00:40:19.95\00:40:24.42
I don't know whether this would
be a good time to mention that
00:40:24.45\00:40:27.46
or not (yes, no it would be
perfect) but it's an example of
00:40:27.49\00:40:30.06
how our ministry is reaching
people that are not in the LGBT
00:40:30.09\00:40:37.57
community but are struggling
with sin. And it was just Friday
00:40:37.60\00:40:42.30
that I got this letter and it
was kind of cute because the guy
00:40:42.34\00:40:46.91
he greeted me by every name
that I go by. I have multiple
00:40:46.94\00:40:51.25
personalities I guess, multiple
identities. He says greeting
00:40:51.28\00:40:56.55
Jesse, Ron, Victor, Pastor
Adamson. This very minute I have
00:40:56.58\00:41:03.63
finished reading your book, That
Kind Can Never Change, Can They?
00:41:03.66\00:41:07.60
and this is my personal
testimony I requested it and
00:41:07.63\00:41:11.20
received it three and a half
years ago. It has taken that
00:41:11.23\00:41:14.70
long for me to open and read
it. So this is a book that was
00:41:14.74\00:41:19.61
shrink-wrapped and sitting
in his cell for three and a half
00:41:19.64\00:41:21.84
years. Our precious father
has used you to be an amazing
00:41:21.88\00:41:26.15
testimony. Your life is perfect
in that sense for if not for
00:41:26.18\00:41:30.72
your major far from perfect
old life portion of your earthly
00:41:30.75\00:41:35.36
life you could not have been and
now be the testimony you are to
00:41:35.39\00:41:39.19
me. Hallelujah, how perfect.
I hope this letter reaches you
00:41:39.23\00:41:43.06
and that you would read it as
you must get tons of mail weekly
00:41:43.10\00:41:45.97
please do read this if you get
it. I am a gifted songwriter of
00:41:46.00\00:41:51.64
Christian and worldly music,
increasingly worldly. Your
00:41:51.67\00:41:56.01
testimony may change that
now. I had ideas to write you
00:41:56.04\00:41:59.68
primarily about music. But I'm
so moved by your testimony and
00:41:59.71\00:42:04.45
life story that my interest is
expanding more to your testimony
00:42:04.49\00:42:07.92
There is quite a bit of
homosexuality in the prisons
00:42:07.96\00:42:11.43
but I'm still naive about much
in here even after 40 years.
00:42:11.46\00:42:16.43
So this fellow, he's straight
but he's moved by my story.
00:42:16.46\00:42:23.20
I don't know how you could
possibly make time but if it can
00:42:23.24\00:42:26.71
be possible somehow I would hope
to become friends. You would be
00:42:26.74\00:42:30.41
an excellent pastor for
me. We have many interests and
00:42:30.45\00:42:34.18
activities in common, hang
gliding, airplane pilot, music,
00:42:34.22\00:42:37.62
biking, motorcycles, running,
water skiing and I absolutely
00:42:37.65\00:42:43.49
love to dance. See I used to
be a dancer, dance instructor.
00:42:43.53\00:42:47.20
We both fought against court and
DA corruption though you won and
00:42:47.23\00:42:52.00
I haven't yet. I've been
in prison over 39 years on an
00:42:52.03\00:42:57.11
eight-year sentence for
defending my life against a very
00:42:57.14\00:43:00.28
violent home invasion intruder
with my legally owned gun and no
00:43:00.31\00:43:04.08
other criminal history every.
But most of all I relate well to
00:43:04.11\00:43:08.05
Christian victory principles
something I need so much more of
00:43:08.08\00:43:12.49
to hear about and to apply in my
daily life and immense struggles
00:43:12.52\00:43:16.73
of prison life wrongly
imprisoned. He goes on to talk
00:43:16.76\00:43:21.40
about how his own brother is
a pastor but has abandoned him
00:43:21.43\00:43:26.43
many years ago. He says I am a
practicing Christian but I have
00:43:26.47\00:43:30.54
fallen much away from much
stronger Christian practices
00:43:30.57\00:43:34.04
over previous years. I hope your
testimony will continue to pull
00:43:34.08\00:43:39.21
me more fully into living my
Christianity better than I am
00:43:39.25\00:43:44.39
now and I hope you will respond.
Thanks for hearing me out.
00:43:44.42\00:43:49.36
And this is just...you know
I think about that text again
00:43:49.39\00:43:52.39
where you overcome Satan by
the blood of the Lamb and by the
00:43:52.43\00:43:54.90
word of our testimony. This
fellow is not gay He's in prison
00:43:54.93\00:43:59.93
very straight and yet my
testimony really resonated with
00:43:59.97\00:44:04.34
him and gave him hope. This is
the point of our ministry. We're
00:44:04.37\00:44:08.31
reaching out to of all different
struggles and addictions. It's
00:44:08.34\00:44:12.81
about victory over sin salvation
from sin rather than in sin.
00:44:12.85\00:44:17.79
That's great. So what would you
say your target audience is with
00:44:17.82\00:44:24.03
your ministry?
00:44:24.06\00:44:25.39
Well at first we wanted to
provide the resources that we
00:44:25.43\00:44:28.00
were desperate for and then what
we realized is that the church
00:44:28.03\00:44:32.50
isn't ready to receive people
like us, many churches aren't
00:44:32.53\00:44:35.80
but through the 12 years of our
ministry we've been trying to...
00:44:35.84\00:44:40.04
Ron, what's your catchphrase?
00:44:40.08\00:44:41.41
Well we have like a three
pronged approach and it's not
00:44:41.44\00:44:46.82
just for the sinner in need but
for the church because we want
00:44:46.85\00:44:50.15
to inspire with our testimonies,
we want to enlighten through
00:44:50.19\00:44:55.39
dispelling the myths, you know
through science and research
00:44:55.42\00:44:59.33
and reason and experience and we
want to equip the church and the
00:44:59.36\00:45:08.80
sinner, like this fellow, equip
with the resources that we were
00:45:08.84\00:45:14.21
lacking because we grew up
in the church when there were no
00:45:14.24\00:45:18.15
resources, no discussion,
no one to talk to and it's just
00:45:18.18\00:45:21.08
amazing. I mean we marvel that
the Lord is using us and you
00:45:21.12\00:45:25.62
folks at 3ABN to actually create
the very resources that would
00:45:25.65\00:45:30.39
have been so helpful to us
in our youth. And we really owe
00:45:30.43\00:45:35.03
you folks a great debt of
gratitude for allowing us the
00:45:35.06\00:45:39.63
opportunity to actually create
these DVD series and so forth.
00:45:39.67\00:45:43.37
Because people are responding
and they're being blessed.
00:45:43.41\00:45:46.68
Praise the Lord. And people need
it. You know this is such a need
00:45:46.71\00:45:51.38
across the board. The Lord
is coming and we have to have
00:45:51.41\00:45:55.68
victory over sin. We can't just
say well I'm a sinner and that's
00:45:55.72\00:46:00.22
it or make excuses for sin when
the Lord has promised us victory
00:46:00.26\00:46:05.13
in His word. So how do we get
that? So this man, I was going
00:46:05.16\00:46:11.03
say young man, but he's been
in prison for almost 40 years.
00:46:11.07\00:46:13.90
He's still young.
00:46:13.94\00:46:15.27
Bless his heart. I guess it's
all in perspective right? It's
00:46:15.30\00:46:18.04
all relative. But his
life has been so torn up
00:46:18.07\00:46:24.21
and he's acknowledging his need
for deliverance from sin. And
00:46:24.25\00:46:31.82
that's what everybody needs
to know, how do we have victory,
00:46:31.85\00:46:35.86
how do we live the victorious
life? And that doesn't mean
00:46:35.89\00:46:39.26
we're not going to make mistakes
or have sin, you know, or sin
00:46:39.29\00:46:42.63
occasionally but we know that
if we do sin we have an advocate
00:46:42.66\00:46:48.20
with the Father, Jesus Christ
the Righteous. So what would you
00:46:48.24\00:46:54.14
say your greatest challenges are
as you're promoting this victory
00:46:54.18\00:46:59.28
kind of perspective. What kind
of challenges, what roadblocks,
00:46:59.31\00:47:04.32
are you running into?
00:47:04.35\00:47:05.69
Sure. I think contemporary
sexuality and identity have
00:47:05.72\00:47:10.26
really influenced our churches
and our schools a lot. It's very
00:47:10.29\00:47:14.46
difficult to get on our
Adventist campuses now, to give
00:47:14.50\00:47:18.63
our story of deliverance
and walking with the Lord. And I
00:47:18.67\00:47:22.70
think that that's largely
because we're not educating our
00:47:22.74\00:47:27.48
children, we're not letting our
children know at a very early
00:47:27.51\00:47:30.01
age, you know, what the
problem is and when they're
00:47:30.05\00:47:33.28
indoctrinated by the world
through YouTube and through
00:47:33.31\00:47:35.92
other relationships when
the church and the schools are
00:47:35.95\00:47:39.29
silent then they have no
other option. They buy into that
00:47:39.32\00:47:42.62
identity. President Wilson said
at one of the General Conference
00:47:42.66\00:47:46.70
sessions, they did a study
and found that 49 percent of our
00:47:46.73\00:47:50.30
Adventist students think
that gay marriage is acceptable.
00:47:50.33\00:47:53.10
That's almost 50 percent.
00:47:53.13\00:47:56.91
Right, right. And so to me
that means that we've missed the
00:47:56.94\00:48:00.24
opportunities to really affirm
identity and sexuality even from
00:48:00.28\00:48:03.71
cradle roll on up. And
that doesn't mean that you're
00:48:03.75\00:48:06.65
educating your children about
sex but when you are afraid to
00:48:06.68\00:48:11.72
talk about the flag and the
rainbow and the seven colors
00:48:11.75\00:48:14.02
you know that God has in His
rainbow or you know then what
00:48:14.06\00:48:17.23
happens is we're left for the
only option that we have that's
00:48:17.26\00:48:20.70
being promoted and celebrated.
00:48:20.73\00:48:22.06
Our young people are not being
educated through the church and
00:48:22.10\00:48:26.03
through Christian institutions.
Then all of their information is
00:48:26.07\00:48:30.07
coming from the wrong source.
It's coming from the world.
00:48:30.11\00:48:32.34
And that's really a big
challenge for us because of this
00:48:32.37\00:48:37.58
cultural approach to a sin issue
rather than a biblical approach.
00:48:37.61\00:48:41.45
And so it's kind of an uphill
spiritual battle for us to
00:48:41.48\00:48:48.02
convince people to go back to
the word. The word of God never
00:48:48.06\00:48:51.33
changes. Culture changes every
generation or five times within
00:48:51.36\00:48:55.46
every generation. It's
constantly changing but the word
00:48:55.50\00:48:58.23
of God never does. And so that's
a big challenge for us to help
00:48:58.27\00:49:07.88
people in the church to turn
away from the cultural solutions
00:49:07.91\00:49:12.75
and turn to the Biblical
ones. Because we have a world of
00:49:12.78\00:49:19.85
Christians that are in the
Christian culture but is it a
00:49:19.89\00:49:23.59
Biblical Christianity or is it
just culture. Christian culture
00:49:23.63\00:49:28.96
or Christian faith. And that's
a challenge that we're dealing
00:49:29.00\00:49:33.74
with.
00:49:33.77\00:49:35.10
And I think that's a real
dilemma you know. The culture
00:49:35.14\00:49:38.67
has turned so...it has made
sexuality just recreational.
00:49:38.71\00:49:49.18
It's okay, do whatever feels
good. Do you? I mean all of
00:49:49.22\00:49:54.62
these things that are so anti
scripture. You were going to say
00:49:54.66\00:49:57.29
something.
00:49:57.33\00:49:58.66
Yeah, because the culture now is
saying that even the word of God
00:49:58.69\00:50:00.83
is cruel and hate speech.
(Right) Right. You know there's
00:50:00.86\00:50:04.37
a verse in 2 Timothy 3 verse
5 and the first few verses talk
00:50:04.40\00:50:07.90
about living at the end of time.
In verse one it says: Know this
00:50:07.94\00:50:11.57
that at the end of the days
perilous times shall come. And
00:50:11.61\00:50:14.74
in verse five it talks about
that there's a group of people
00:50:14.78\00:50:17.51
that have a form of godliness.
You know they have the love
00:50:17.55\00:50:20.95
message and they talk about you
know how much you're loved and
00:50:20.98\00:50:24.99
accepted and all of this, this
warm fuzzy feeling but they deny
00:50:25.02\00:50:28.26
the power thereof and then we're
told from such stay away. Well
00:50:28.29\00:50:31.36
what's the power that they're
denying? They're denying the
00:50:31.39\00:50:34.06
power of a re-creative God that
came to rescue us, not to leave
00:50:34.10\00:50:38.97
us in our sins, but to rescue us
through the power of what He did
00:50:39.00\00:50:43.07
on the cross and that to me is
now infiltrating into our church
00:50:43.10\00:50:46.41
culture and again I believe
that's the capstone of what we
00:50:46.44\00:50:49.58
really want to reconnect people
back to the power of God to
00:50:49.61\00:50:52.71
restore and to redeem.
00:50:52.75\00:50:55.25
That is so beautiful. I mean
that is the key. Denying the
00:50:55.28\00:50:58.92
power thereof. What power is it?
A form of godliness but denying
00:50:58.95\00:51:04.89
the power thereof.
00:51:04.93\00:51:06.66
A transforming power.
00:51:06.70\00:51:09.76
The transforming, the saving,
the delivering power of God, of
00:51:09.80\00:51:13.57
Jesus Christ.
That is so powerful.
00:51:13.60\00:51:16.07
I looked up the word salvation.
I was studying with a friend and
00:51:16.10\00:51:20.04
I looked up the word salvation
in the concordance and it said
00:51:20.08\00:51:22.91
to rescue. The plan of salvation
isn't to judge you or to reject
00:51:22.94\00:51:27.75
you. It's to rescue us. And that
was really mind-blowing for me.
00:51:27.78\00:51:32.02
It's like that's right, I need
to be rescued and if I don't
00:51:32.05\00:51:34.86
accept the power of what
Jesus did on the cross I'm not
00:51:34.89\00:51:38.19
going to experience that rescue.
00:51:38.23\00:51:39.79
It's to restore
to his original plan.
00:51:39.83\00:51:42.36
Exactly, exactly. Well I know
that you want to know how to get
00:51:42.40\00:51:47.17
in touch with these gentlemen
with this ministry so let's take
00:51:47.20\00:51:51.21
a look.
00:51:51.24\00:51:53.14
If you would like to contact
or know more about 'Coming Out'
00:51:53.17\00:51:56.91
Ministries you can do so in the
following ways: You can write to
00:51:56.95\00:51:59.91
them at P. O. Box
107, Tilly Arkansas 72679
00:51:59.95\00:52:06.25
You can visit their website
at ComingOutMinistries.org
00:52:06.29\00:52:13.86
You can also send them an email
at Admin@ComingOutMinistries.org
00:52:13.90\00:52:24.47
¤ ¤
00:52:24.51\00:52:30.21