As you're well aware,
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we're living in
unprecedented times.
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Join us now for
Today special program.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, and
welcome to 3ABN Today.
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I'm John Lomacang,
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and I have my
lovely wife with me Angela.
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Good to have you here, honey.
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I'm always happy to be here.
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And welcome to
3ABN Today program.
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Do we have an
exciting program, honey?
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We do.
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As you have heard the
song leading into this program,
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Danny has had this as a
theme from the very beginning,
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Spending Our Lives
Mending Broken People.
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And this program is
about broken people,
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but not generally broken people.
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This is about a
category of broken people
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that don't often
make conversation
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around the Thanksgiving
table or the dinner table.
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Or it's a conversations
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that some people don't
want to have with their parents,
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and some parents don't want
to have with their children,
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and some spouses
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don't want to have
with their equivalent other.
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Like wife don't
want to tell husband,
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husband don't want to tell wife.
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True.
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And these are the conversations
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that young people are
having with other young people
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that parents wish
they knew about and so...
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Yeah, some
television programs, it's...
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Yeah.
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We're talking about
a very hot topic today,
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LGBTIAQ culture
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and how it fits
into a Bible verse
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that I want to share
with you at the very beginning
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just before we
introduce our guest.
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You know, 2 Corinthians
5:17, it's a powerful passage.
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And it fits so beautifully
into our program today
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because as a pastor,
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I've always taught that
we can confess our sins,
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we serve a forgiving God,
we serve a redemptive God,
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we serve a restoring
God and a rebuilding God.
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A God who accepts us as we are
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but never leaves us
the way He finds us.
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But somehow,
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with the legalization
of the LGBTQ in America,
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and I want to put
this in the proper context,
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is that some people have felt,
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"Well, as a song
years ago by Billy Joel,
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I love You Just The Way You Are,
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but I'll leave you
just the way you are."
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And I've heard a lot of
people, even pastor say,
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"The Lord loves you
just the way you are."
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But I want to add,
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He never leaves you
the way He finds you.
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That's so true.
And that's not...
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There's not a
single story in the Bible
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where the Lord Jesus met someone
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and left them blind,
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hurt, bleeding to death.
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Even Lazarus,
raised him to live,
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the demoniac, He freed him
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and He restored
him to his right mind.
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So we're going to
talk about that today.
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And you may know of
someone, I have family members,
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couple of them that are gay.
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And I'm going to say
that openly, clearly.
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But I preach a
redemptive gospel,
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not a, "Hey, just
stay the way you are."
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And we should...
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But you still love
on them, don't you?
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Love them all,
and they know that.
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They know you love them.
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That's the
wonderful thing about it.
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And so we have
to keep in mind that
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we should never look
at any sector of society
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as collateral,
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meaning, "Well, the
devil can have them,
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because we don't have
any answers for them."
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If any place people
should come to find answers
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for anything they face in life,
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no matter what it is,
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it should be the
Christian church.
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Amen.
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We should have answers
for any issue that they face.
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As one person once
says, "Whatever the question,
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Jesus is the answer."
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Honey, read that for us,
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2 Corinthians 5:17.
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I'd like you to read that
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since I've been talking so much.
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I'm on my New
Yorker, 100 miles an hour.
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"Therefore, if
anyone is in Christ,
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he is a new creation."
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Love this, "Old
things have passed away,
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and behold, all
things have become new."
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That's right. It's
so assuring, isn't it?
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And that's for anyone, isn't it?
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That's for anyone.
That's for everyone.
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Sin is sin. No matter how.
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But what has
happened in the world today
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and particularly
in American society,
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that's what we're
dealing with primarily,
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but around the world,
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more tolerant in
some areas than others.
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We have, kind of,
categorized certain areas
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of people's
struggles in sins as,
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"It's acceptable.
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It's legalized."
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You know, alcohol
got legalized years ago,
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then smoking got
legalized tobacco,
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then marijuana has
been legalized recently.
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I don't know how
pornography ever got legalized.
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It just didn't make sense to me.
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No.
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And now the gay and lesbian,
and bisexual and transgender
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has been legalized in America.
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And somehow we
think that legalization
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makes something
acceptable to God.
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Well, we're going
to talk about it today
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from a loving perspective,
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from a scriptural perspective,
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from a redemptive and
rebuilding perspective.
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And I think on that note,
we should introduce our guest.
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Honey, would you do that?
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Oh, Wayne Blakely
is our guest today.
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Welcome, Wayne. Thank you.
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You are not new to 3ABN.
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You've been on
Dare To Dream, 3ABN.
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Yeah, I haven't been
here for about five years.
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And it's certainly
a pleasure to be back,
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honored to be here.
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Oh, now, could you give us
a brief sketch of your story,
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your testimony?
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Sure. I grew up in the church.
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I grew up and recognized,
very early in my life,
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that I had same sex attraction.
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Didn't know where this fell,
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but as I was
around 13 years old,
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every place I read in the Bible,
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it was certainly
wasn't something that
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was condoned by God
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to move on those attractions.
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And by the time
I was 18 years old,
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you know, there had been
deathly silence in the church.
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And so the LGBTQ
community got my attention.
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I left God and
the church and lived
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according to how I
felt for the next 40 years.
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That would include 12
years of male prostitution.
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Everybody has a
story, and I believe that
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whether you believe
one lie from the enemy
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of a monogamous relationship
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between two same
gender individuals
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or whether you
believe a thousand lies
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and you go off
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and you're promiscuous
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or do whatever you want to do,
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none of it is
pleasing in God's eyes.
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And so He's seeking
to grab our attention.
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And after 40 years,
within the culture itself,
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I had lost all
my friends to AIDS.
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And I found myself
in my bedroom one day,
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thinking, "Hmm, what
does my destiny look like
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knowing all that I know
as it relates to the Bible?"
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And I knew that
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unless there was some
kind of change in my life,
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I only had one life to live.
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Wow.
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And you know,
talking about that topic,
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I know that as
we're diving into this,
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there may be someone watching
or listening to the program
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that may have just
turned the volume up,
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or may have just
turned the volume down.
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But I want to encourage you
that this is a very real topic
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in our world today.
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And I've seen, many years ago,
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there's the burying
your head in the sand,
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that is going to go away.
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That's not really going
to happen in our world today.
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So that's why we decided...
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And the focus of the program,
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we're going to
talk about four things
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that are significant.
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And the four R's,
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I'll tell you what
that is in a moment,
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and I'll have
Wayne introduce those.
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And we have two books today
that we want to talk about.
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And as a pastor, I
received a copy of this book,
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one is called Guiding Families.
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And I'll have Wayne
talk about that a little bit.
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Do you see it on the screen,
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Guiding Families of
LGBT Plus Loved Ones?
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And by the North
American Division
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of Seventh-day Adventist,
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and I'm a pastor in
the North American Division
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of Seventh-day Adventist.
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So this... Ordained minister.
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Ordained
minister for 34 years now,
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in my 35th year.
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Wow, it's amazing. Went fast.
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And this is another book that...
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Wayne was the founder too? Yeah.
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It's called, Line By Line.
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It's a response to
the Guiding Families book.
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And it's also a
biblical analysis
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of Guiding Families.
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It's a...
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It's another words,
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comparing what this
says to what the Bible says.
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And what I want to
make very clear as a pastor
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in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in the North American Division.
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One other things that
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we want to make very
clear at the very beginning
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is there's no blanket statement
that all pastors believe this
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or all pastors believe that,
00:09:05.87\00:09:07.61
but in the varying communities
00:09:07.64\00:09:08.98
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:09:09.01\00:09:10.35
and the Christian
community in general,
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because this is not something
that's just denominational.
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This is across the
spectrum in all denominations.
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It's a real issue that
people have to confront.
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It has split some congregations,
00:09:20.52\00:09:22.29
some churches have
split right down the middle
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and gone off into one direction
00:09:24.56\00:09:26.23
and others have remained.
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Some have become
more conservative,
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some have become ultra
liberal and accept anything.
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But the key today in the program
00:09:33.30\00:09:34.84
is very simple question.
00:09:34.87\00:09:38.97
If this topic
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is one that the
Bible is silent on,
00:09:42.91\00:09:46.11
then it gives us no
foundation to address it.
00:09:46.15\00:09:48.65
Then it's an opinion topic.
00:09:48.68\00:09:50.32
But if the Bible
talks about this topic,
00:09:50.35\00:09:54.16
then we need to find out
what the Bible says about it,
00:09:54.19\00:09:57.89
what God's view is on it?
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And if the Bible puts
this in the category of sin,
00:10:00.26\00:10:05.43
the Bible will also put this
in the category of showing us
00:10:05.47\00:10:08.50
how people that
are embracing this life
00:10:08.54\00:10:12.04
can be redeemed.
00:10:12.07\00:10:13.78
There's not a sin in the
Bible that cannot be redeemed.
00:10:13.81\00:10:16.71
And so if we teach that,
00:10:16.75\00:10:18.08
well, the Lord loves
you just the way you are,
00:10:18.11\00:10:20.98
and He'll leave you
just the way He finds you.
00:10:21.02\00:10:22.95
Then we've lost the
power of the gospel.
00:10:22.98\00:10:25.09
So I'm going to just, kind of,
throw this back to Wayne on...
00:10:25.12\00:10:28.12
Let's just start with...
00:10:28.16\00:10:29.86
I'll give you a
chance to start from
00:10:29.89\00:10:31.33
where you feel
comfortable to start from.
00:10:31.36\00:10:33.66
Well, I'd like
to start with what,
00:10:33.70\00:10:36.13
for some of the viewers,
00:10:36.16\00:10:37.57
would be a bit of an
elephant in the room.
00:10:37.60\00:10:40.50
And that is that I
am a retired co-founder
00:10:40.54\00:10:44.81
of Coming Out Ministries,
00:10:44.84\00:10:46.84
a ministry who is
a parallel ministry
00:10:46.88\00:10:49.08
of mine.
00:10:49.11\00:10:50.45
I'm sharing about restoration,
00:10:50.48\00:10:52.18
reconciliation and
redemption through Jesus Christ
00:10:52.21\00:10:55.02
as it relates to the LGBT issue.
00:10:55.05\00:10:57.89
When I got baptized,
00:10:57.92\00:10:59.49
I didn't go under the water gay
00:10:59.52\00:11:00.99
and come up straight.
00:11:01.02\00:11:02.36
That
disappointed a lot of people.
00:11:02.39\00:11:04.23
But if I started
chasing women around,
00:11:04.26\00:11:06.23
I don't know that that would be,
00:11:06.26\00:11:07.70
or that would just
be a new addiction.
00:11:07.73\00:11:10.87
But in my walk with God,
00:11:10.90\00:11:12.53
the first four
years were basically
00:11:12.57\00:11:15.00
a honeymoon with God.
00:11:15.04\00:11:16.57
And then the enemy...
00:11:16.60\00:11:18.94
The more I would speak
out, the more the enemy,
00:11:18.97\00:11:21.21
you know, will taunt you,
00:11:21.24\00:11:22.58
because he doesn't
want anybody speaking out
00:11:22.61\00:11:24.41
about redemption on this topic.
00:11:24.45\00:11:27.35
And in my walk with
Coming Out Ministries
00:11:27.38\00:11:30.15
as a co-founder there,
00:11:30.19\00:11:32.02
I came to a point in the road
00:11:32.05\00:11:33.39
where I did
experience moral failure.
00:11:33.42\00:11:36.39
And as a result of
that moral failure,
00:11:36.42\00:11:38.23
there was a consequence,
00:11:38.26\00:11:39.59
and that brought
about my retirement
00:11:39.63\00:11:41.46
from Coming Out Ministries.
00:11:41.50\00:11:42.83
I would spend the next
year and a half on the sofa.
00:11:42.86\00:11:44.87
I was watching crime drama
00:11:44.90\00:11:47.07
and cooking shows on
television and saying,
00:11:47.10\00:11:50.14
you know, "God,
what do I do now?"
00:11:50.17\00:11:52.71
Because I didn't
stop believing Him,
00:11:52.74\00:11:54.98
I had only experienced failure,
00:11:55.01\00:11:58.05
and Satan had taken
advantage of my weakness.
00:11:58.08\00:12:01.08
So I want to make a point today
00:12:01.12\00:12:03.45
that regardless of whether
I would be sucked back in
00:12:03.49\00:12:06.22
by the LGBT community or not,
00:12:06.25\00:12:08.19
it doesn't change the truth
00:12:08.22\00:12:09.82
and the love of Jesus
Christ no matter who you are,
00:12:09.86\00:12:12.49
or what you might suffer from.
00:12:12.53\00:12:15.36
One of the first things
I did when I came up off
00:12:15.40\00:12:17.23
of that sofa, I was...
00:12:17.27\00:12:19.10
I met with a
phone call that said,
00:12:19.13\00:12:22.17
"Are you familiar with
the book Guiding Families
00:12:22.20\00:12:24.41
of LGBT Plus Loved Ones
00:12:24.44\00:12:26.17
that came out of our
North American Division?"
00:12:26.21\00:12:28.51
I was not, but I
got a copy of it.
00:12:28.54\00:12:30.75
And the pastor
that called me said,
00:12:30.78\00:12:32.18
"I see an awful
lot of love in here,
00:12:32.21\00:12:34.88
but I don't see any
Go and Sin No More."
00:12:34.92\00:12:38.49
So I got a copy and I
began to read through it.
00:12:38.52\00:12:40.99
And what I found
from the first page
00:12:41.02\00:12:43.09
until the last was
a cultural adaptation
00:12:43.12\00:12:46.39
of the LGBT community.
00:12:46.43\00:12:48.56
And as it relates to a church
00:12:48.60\00:12:51.00
whose foundational beliefs
are in Scripture as it reads,
00:12:51.03\00:12:55.07
it didn't make sense to me
00:12:55.10\00:12:56.44
because it didn't offer
hope and help and healing.
00:12:56.47\00:13:00.68
In the Guiding Families book,
00:13:00.71\00:13:02.21
you will not find
the words restoration,
00:13:02.24\00:13:04.41
reconciliation or redemption.
00:13:04.45\00:13:07.12
And that was concerning to me.
00:13:07.15\00:13:09.35
And then I got a call that said,
00:13:09.38\00:13:12.69
"Would you be
willing to write an analysis
00:13:12.72\00:13:16.66
of Guiding Families
00:13:16.69\00:13:18.03
as to why it doesn't
work for our denomination
00:13:18.06\00:13:23.40
or for Christianity?"
00:13:23.43\00:13:24.77
And I was like, "Ah, man,
00:13:24.80\00:13:26.80
who wants to wade through
mud to try to apply the truth?"
00:13:26.84\00:13:31.64
And I really didn't
want to write it at all,
00:13:31.67\00:13:33.51
but I said, "You
know, I'll pray about it."
00:13:33.54\00:13:37.48
And so I prayed.
00:13:37.51\00:13:39.38
And the next morning, I
had an email from somebody,
00:13:39.41\00:13:41.82
who was very close to me,
00:13:41.85\00:13:46.76
who I had talked to
about Guiding Families
00:13:46.79\00:13:51.56
about two months earlier.
00:13:51.59\00:13:53.56
And she wrote me,
00:13:53.60\00:13:57.80
she knew all about my departure
from Coming Out Ministries,
00:13:57.83\00:14:01.14
and she sent this in this email.
00:14:01.17\00:14:03.07
And the only thing she said was,
00:14:03.10\00:14:05.51
"I believe that
00:14:05.54\00:14:06.88
God still has plans to use you."
00:14:06.91\00:14:09.04
And attach to the email
00:14:09.08\00:14:11.71
was a cover of the front
of the Guiding Families book.
00:14:11.75\00:14:16.12
And I went, "Wow, God,
I guess that's my answer."
00:14:16.15\00:14:19.79
And so I would take
the next year and a half
00:14:19.82\00:14:22.02
in writing...
00:14:22.06\00:14:23.59
And that's why it's
called, Line By Line
00:14:23.63\00:14:25.26
because I
literally go line by line
00:14:25.29\00:14:27.66
through Guiding Families
00:14:27.70\00:14:29.50
to help the reader understand
00:14:29.53\00:14:31.90
what it is about
Guiding Families.
00:14:31.93\00:14:33.80
It doesn't work from
a cultural standpoint.
00:14:33.84\00:14:36.50
We need to look at things
00:14:36.54\00:14:37.87
from a biblical
redemptive standpoint.
00:14:37.91\00:14:39.44
Amen.
00:14:39.47\00:14:40.81
Now, let me just
embrace something here.
00:14:40.84\00:14:42.28
I've heard you say the word,
Cultural, a couple of times.
00:14:42.31\00:14:46.72
Why not the word, Lifestyle?
00:14:46.75\00:14:49.32
Lifestyle is a word
that is basically detested
00:14:49.35\00:14:53.72
by the LGBT plus community.
00:14:53.76\00:14:56.49
It's a demeaning word
to, or a derogatory term
00:14:56.52\00:15:02.20
towards the LGBT community.
00:15:02.23\00:15:04.00
So there may be some in
the LGBT community that,
00:15:04.03\00:15:06.53
actually, have a monogamous,
same sex relationship.
00:15:06.57\00:15:09.77
Those people don't
necessarily go out to the clubs,
00:15:09.80\00:15:12.51
the sex clubs, the bars
00:15:12.54\00:15:14.01
and do all the things
that would be associated
00:15:14.04\00:15:15.81
with what would
be termed, Lifestyle.
00:15:15.84\00:15:18.18
So when you use
the term, LGBT Culture,
00:15:18.21\00:15:21.65
you're meeting
people on level ground.
00:15:21.68\00:15:24.89
You're not making an insinuation
00:15:24.92\00:15:26.62
that you're scum, no.
00:15:26.65\00:15:28.32
And so I try very hard
today to help people understand
00:15:28.36\00:15:32.83
that what we should be doing
00:15:32.86\00:15:34.43
is referring to the culture
rather than to a lifestyle.
00:15:34.46\00:15:39.17
Now, this book, what
were your observations
00:15:39.20\00:15:41.57
after reading this book?
00:15:41.60\00:15:43.24
Well, the book tells us that
00:15:43.27\00:15:45.11
we need to accept
people for who they are,
00:15:45.14\00:15:48.21
who they say they are,
00:15:48.24\00:15:49.58
that we shouldn't be
disappointed in that.
00:15:49.61\00:15:51.01
We shouldn't
express our disappointment.
00:15:51.05\00:15:53.18
We shouldn't sit down and
talk to them about the position
00:15:53.21\00:15:57.15
that God has or
what His Word has to say,
00:15:57.19\00:15:59.69
because that would
basically be offensive
00:15:59.72\00:16:01.42
to the person,
00:16:01.46\00:16:03.06
you know, who
we're referring to.
00:16:03.09\00:16:04.89
Now, that might be the case
00:16:04.93\00:16:06.26
if you were standing
outside of a gay bar.
00:16:06.29\00:16:08.16
You're not, necessarily,
going to clobber them
00:16:08.20\00:16:09.70
over their head with,
00:16:09.73\00:16:11.07
"Jesus," as soon
as they walk out.
00:16:11.10\00:16:12.43
But to somebody,
00:16:12.47\00:16:13.80
who's been raised in the church,
00:16:13.84\00:16:15.87
or for instance, in
our Adventist institutions
00:16:15.90\00:16:18.14
or colleges and academies,
00:16:18.17\00:16:20.31
you should very much
be able to talk to them
00:16:20.34\00:16:22.68
about their identity in Christ.
00:16:22.71\00:16:24.55
And that it shouldn't
be based upon sexuality
00:16:24.58\00:16:28.05
but who Jesus
says that they are.
00:16:28.08\00:16:29.62
That's right.
00:16:29.65\00:16:30.99
That's a good point,
because a lot of times
00:16:31.02\00:16:32.75
when you look at the scriptures,
00:16:32.79\00:16:34.12
and having done so for as
long as I've been pastoring,
00:16:34.16\00:16:37.13
even before that,
Jesus sees the person first.
00:16:37.16\00:16:40.53
Amen.
00:16:40.56\00:16:41.90
You know, we see a
blind man. Jesus sees...
00:16:41.93\00:16:46.03
Literally in the story
00:16:46.07\00:16:47.44
about the young
man who was born blind,
00:16:47.47\00:16:50.07
see, He saw the man
first, who was born blind.
00:16:50.11\00:16:53.34
He sees the person first
before He sees their condition.
00:16:53.38\00:16:57.11
And so when we see
people in society today,
00:16:57.15\00:17:01.08
for example, we will say,
"A man who's an alcoholic.
00:17:01.12\00:17:04.42
A woman who is whatever."
00:17:04.45\00:17:08.32
The connection is to whatever
the challenge is in her life.
00:17:08.36\00:17:11.46
And so what I'm
hearing you say is,
00:17:11.49\00:17:13.40
if we could see
the person first,
00:17:13.43\00:17:15.83
like Jesus saw the person first,
00:17:15.86\00:17:17.90
then we could...
00:17:17.93\00:17:19.27
They will sense that acceptance?
00:17:19.30\00:17:20.64
Right.
00:17:20.67\00:17:22.00
And so, you know the
approach that I would take,
00:17:22.04\00:17:23.84
and the approach
I take in my book
00:17:23.87\00:17:25.37
is that God loves
every single person
00:17:25.41\00:17:27.81
who He's given
the breath of life to.
00:17:27.84\00:17:29.78
But in our circumstances,
of which there are many,
00:17:29.81\00:17:34.05
and there is a large contingency
00:17:34.08\00:17:36.08
of the LGBT plus community
00:17:36.12\00:17:38.09
that has so much
silence even in the church
00:17:38.12\00:17:40.22
for so many years
00:17:40.26\00:17:41.62
that since the 70s
have drawn a spotlight
00:17:41.66\00:17:45.63
to the LGBT plus agenda.
00:17:45.66\00:17:47.36
So while you have the spotlight,
00:17:47.40\00:17:49.90
let's talk about
it in spiritual ways,
00:17:49.93\00:17:52.57
in godly ways
00:17:52.60\00:17:53.94
of which God wants
to offer to you hope,
00:17:53.97\00:17:56.84
healing and restoration in Him.
00:17:56.87\00:17:59.61
So the book,
Guiding Families, it just...
00:17:59.64\00:18:04.21
It leaves you where you are.
00:18:04.25\00:18:06.01
It tells the
reader that the parents
00:18:06.05\00:18:08.68
and loved ones and pastors,
00:18:08.72\00:18:10.45
you must refer to
this person by the gender
00:18:10.49\00:18:12.72
they wish to be referred to as,
00:18:12.75\00:18:16.22
or their sexual identity
and their sexual orientation.
00:18:16.26\00:18:19.86
And I think that
we've gotten lost,
00:18:19.89\00:18:22.30
because as you
look at Scripture,
00:18:22.33\00:18:24.03
Scripture doesn't
have a compass in it
00:18:24.07\00:18:26.37
for the sex that you desire.
00:18:26.40\00:18:29.07
What Scripture
prescribes is that
00:18:29.10\00:18:31.97
God has given
the gift of intimacy.
00:18:32.01\00:18:35.38
Not a sexual orientation,
00:18:35.41\00:18:36.88
but the gift of
intimacy between the confines
00:18:36.91\00:18:40.35
of one man and one woman,
00:18:40.38\00:18:42.08
and that's in Genesis
all the way to Revelation.
00:18:42.12\00:18:44.52
That's right.
00:18:44.55\00:18:45.89
If God did condone same
sex monogamous relationships,
00:18:45.92\00:18:49.72
wouldn't it be mighty
unfair of Him to not tell us
00:18:49.76\00:18:52.73
or give us an example of
such somewhere in Scripture?
00:18:52.76\00:18:55.06
True.
00:18:55.10\00:18:56.43
So that's a big clue to me,
00:18:56.46\00:18:57.80
because that would
be a tricky evil God.
00:18:57.83\00:18:59.17
I couldn't
serve a God like that.
00:18:59.20\00:19:00.54
That's right.
00:19:00.57\00:19:01.90
So Satan, as he
was able to deceive
00:19:01.94\00:19:04.11
and convinced a
third of heaven to leave
00:19:04.14\00:19:06.71
and then starts out
with Eve in the garden,
00:19:06.74\00:19:09.78
is doing the same thing to
you and to me today to say,
00:19:09.81\00:19:13.42
"You know what?
00:19:13.45\00:19:14.78
God isn't fair on this.
00:19:14.82\00:19:16.15
You can't trust God on this.
00:19:16.18\00:19:17.52
You should be
able to go and live
00:19:17.55\00:19:19.05
according to what
you think is right.
00:19:19.09\00:19:21.26
You should be
able to define love
00:19:21.29\00:19:22.92
the way you want,
00:19:22.96\00:19:24.29
as it relates to
someone of the same gender."
00:19:24.33\00:19:27.43
And then God will wink at that.
00:19:27.46\00:19:29.86
God is going to be
perfectly fine with that,
00:19:29.90\00:19:32.20
but that's not
what Scripture tells us.
00:19:32.23\00:19:34.00
That's right. No.
00:19:34.04\00:19:35.44
Now, in this book,
well, Guiding Families,
00:19:35.47\00:19:39.37
there's nothing about the
redemptive power of Jesus.
00:19:39.41\00:19:42.94
What are your thoughts on that?
00:19:42.98\00:19:44.48
So this became
very personal to me,
00:19:44.51\00:19:46.68
because I recognized
00:19:46.72\00:19:48.42
when I left the
LGBT plus community,
00:19:48.45\00:19:51.39
I even asked the person
00:19:51.42\00:19:52.75
who helped with my
redemptive process,
00:19:52.79\00:19:55.62
and I said, "So who am I today?"
00:19:55.66\00:19:58.79
And she said,
"Oh, you're still gay."
00:19:58.83\00:20:01.23
And I said, "I didn't go through
00:20:01.26\00:20:03.97
all this repentance
00:20:04.00\00:20:05.40
and all this giving
up myself for Christ
00:20:05.43\00:20:07.97
to still be called gay."
00:20:08.00\00:20:09.70
And then come to find out,
00:20:09.74\00:20:11.14
as you just read earlier,
00:20:11.17\00:20:12.84
I have an
identity in Jesus Christ
00:20:12.87\00:20:14.94
as a new creation in Him
00:20:14.98\00:20:16.31
when I submit my will to Him.
00:20:16.34\00:20:18.35
And that's, whether you're LGBT
or some other kind of sinner,
00:20:18.38\00:20:21.68
you can be a new
creation in Christ
00:20:21.72\00:20:23.79
as you give your
life over to Him.
00:20:23.82\00:20:25.79
You made a point. Go ahead.
00:20:25.82\00:20:27.16
It's like alcohol,
AA, Alcoholics Anonymous,
00:20:27.19\00:20:29.12
they say you'll
always known as an alcoholic.
00:20:29.16\00:20:31.63
I use that as an example.
00:20:31.66\00:20:32.99
You do? Yeah.
00:20:33.03\00:20:34.36
I say that to
audiences where I speak today,
00:20:34.40\00:20:36.06
especially in the church,
00:20:36.10\00:20:37.43
that Jesus doesn't say, "Oh,
here comes my alcoholic son,"
00:20:37.47\00:20:40.74
when he comes to
the foot of the cross.
00:20:40.77\00:20:42.10
He goes, "Here comes my
new creature in Christ."
00:20:42.14\00:20:44.34
So let's get the
identity correct.
00:20:44.37\00:20:47.11
And let's make sure that
when we are offering something
00:20:47.14\00:20:50.08
that is from the Word of God.
00:20:50.11\00:20:51.78
We've been
stagnant in our church
00:20:51.81\00:20:54.58
about not having
the answers for people,
00:20:54.62\00:20:57.65
who are LGBT plus.
00:20:57.69\00:20:59.65
And we have statements
on homosexuality that says
00:20:59.69\00:21:02.36
that this isn't
behavior that God condones,
00:21:02.39\00:21:04.89
but what are you
offering those people?
00:21:04.93\00:21:08.66
You're so right.
00:21:08.70\00:21:10.20
I mean, the Bible is so replete,
00:21:10.23\00:21:12.80
so filled with the
topic of redemption.
00:21:12.83\00:21:15.37
Amen.
00:21:15.40\00:21:16.74
And, you know, when Paul says,
00:21:16.77\00:21:18.11
"Forgetting those
things that are behind you,
00:21:18.14\00:21:19.47
reaching to those
things that are ahead,
00:21:19.51\00:21:21.01
pressing toward
the mark for the prize
00:21:21.04\00:21:22.98
of the upward call
of God in Christ Jesus."
00:21:23.01\00:21:24.68
In our conversation,
when we had lunch together,
00:21:24.71\00:21:27.22
and one of the
things that really struck me
00:21:27.25\00:21:28.95
is when you
said, "I wanted more."
00:21:28.98\00:21:32.79
I feel like I was robbed.
00:21:32.82\00:21:34.86
Christ is offering so much more,
00:21:34.89\00:21:37.03
but it's like I
have not been told,
00:21:37.06\00:21:39.29
but I want to
experience that abundance.
00:21:39.33\00:21:41.06
Talk about that for a moment?
00:21:41.10\00:21:45.10
Well, this is, kind of,
00:21:45.13\00:21:46.47
where the four R's
come into the picture.
00:21:46.50\00:21:48.57
And, you know, I
have been very blessed
00:21:48.60\00:21:52.37
and God has been
very generous to me.
00:21:52.41\00:21:55.38
And today, because of
the failures that I'm...
00:21:55.41\00:21:57.88
You know, my life
has been a combination
00:21:57.91\00:21:59.48
of faith and failure.
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.25
And praise the Lord for stories
00:22:01.28\00:22:03.52
of Mary
Magdalene and King David,
00:22:03.55\00:22:06.29
and Samson and others,
you know, that God is there.
00:22:06.32\00:22:12.03
Proverbs 24:16 says
that a righteous man
00:22:12.06\00:22:14.83
may fall seven times when...
00:22:14.86\00:22:16.77
So who gets him up?
00:22:16.80\00:22:18.13
You know, we
should come around people
00:22:18.17\00:22:19.73
and help them get back up
00:22:19.77\00:22:21.60
and walk with
them on the journey.
00:22:21.64\00:22:23.14
The journey can be a
little bumpy along the way,
00:22:23.17\00:22:25.67
but don't turn and abandon.
00:22:25.71\00:22:27.18
God doesn't abandon us
00:22:27.21\00:22:28.61
so let's not
abandon one another.
00:22:28.64\00:22:31.38
I found in ministry
that I had reached a point
00:22:31.41\00:22:34.78
that's been
somewhat of a plateau.
00:22:34.82\00:22:36.92
I surrender my life to Christ.
00:22:36.95\00:22:39.39
I deny, you know, myself,
you know, as I walk with God,
00:22:39.42\00:22:43.02
that temptation
thing, the desires that come.
00:22:43.06\00:22:45.36
But there's got
to be something more.
00:22:45.39\00:22:47.26
And I discovered that
there are what are called
00:22:47.30\00:22:51.47
the four R's
00:22:51.50\00:22:52.83
as it relates to this
topic within Christianity.
00:22:52.87\00:22:56.37
We have the Rebel column,
which basically says that,
00:22:56.40\00:23:00.94
"Hey, I'm gay.
00:23:00.98\00:23:02.48
I'm transgender.
00:23:02.51\00:23:03.85
I'm fine just the way I am.
00:23:03.88\00:23:05.35
God created me this way
00:23:05.38\00:23:08.22
and He doesn't
have a problem with it."
00:23:08.25\00:23:10.29
Then we have...
00:23:10.32\00:23:11.65
And, you know, I
would call myself
00:23:11.69\00:23:13.02
a gay Christian at that point,
00:23:13.05\00:23:14.39
in that column.
00:23:14.42\00:23:15.76
Then there's the
Resist column that says,
00:23:15.79\00:23:18.16
"Well, promiscuity is
not good, incest, abuse.
00:23:18.19\00:23:22.06
All these things,
those things aren't good,
00:23:22.10\00:23:24.17
but God doesn't
have a problem with me
00:23:24.20\00:23:25.93
having a monogamous,
same sex relationship.
00:23:25.97\00:23:28.54
He may condone a
same sex marriage,
00:23:28.57\00:23:30.97
but He, you know,
He doesn't want us...
00:23:31.01\00:23:34.78
He gives us a little
sense of morality there."
00:23:34.81\00:23:37.35
And so we...
00:23:37.38\00:23:38.71
The book, Guiding Families,
00:23:38.75\00:23:40.08
is actually written from a Rebel
00:23:40.12\00:23:42.25
and a Resist perspective.
00:23:42.28\00:23:45.59
Then we arrive at the third
R, which would be Renounce,
00:23:45.62\00:23:49.59
and Renounce is
where I've kind of been
00:23:49.62\00:23:51.99
in the last 12
years in ministry in that,
00:23:52.03\00:23:55.06
"I don't want a gay label.
00:23:55.10\00:23:56.56
I want who I am
in Jesus Christ."
00:23:56.60\00:23:58.50
It says, "I'm a
new creation in Him."
00:23:58.53\00:24:00.97
That I would deny
myself for Christ.
00:24:01.00\00:24:03.44
I would walk with Him.
00:24:03.47\00:24:04.81
And that, yes,
temptations and desires can be,
00:24:04.84\00:24:08.41
they can become sin if we sit
00:24:08.44\00:24:11.21
and consider them for very long.
00:24:11.25\00:24:13.45
James talks to us about,
00:24:13.48\00:24:15.18
you know, when things
become sin in our lives.
00:24:15.22\00:24:18.62
But what we don't talk about,
00:24:18.65\00:24:20.22
and much because
of the mudslinging
00:24:20.26\00:24:22.26
that has come
from LGBT activist,
00:24:22.29\00:24:26.06
is with reference to things
00:24:26.09\00:24:28.00
like conversion
and reparative therapy.
00:24:28.03\00:24:30.17
It was recently pointed out,
00:24:30.20\00:24:31.93
brought to my attention
00:24:31.97\00:24:33.30
that conversion
and reparative therapy,
00:24:33.34\00:24:34.84
these aversive
techniques of shock therapy,
00:24:34.87\00:24:38.27
immersing people in cold,
00:24:38.31\00:24:41.04
ice-cold baths
and things like that.
00:24:41.08\00:24:43.08
These, kinds
of, things were done
00:24:43.11\00:24:45.28
when homosexuality
was still in the DSM,
00:24:45.31\00:24:47.92
which was a diagnostic tool
00:24:47.95\00:24:49.58
for psychologists to use.
00:24:49.62\00:24:51.49
But when the homosexuality
00:24:51.52\00:24:55.09
got removed from the DSM,
00:24:55.12\00:24:58.13
there weren't counselors doing
behavioral therapies like that.
00:24:58.16\00:25:01.03
And so Christian
therapists and all today
00:25:01.06\00:25:03.50
are seeking to give,
00:25:03.53\00:25:04.87
offer you what Jesus offers you.
00:25:04.90\00:25:07.84
It's a conversion of the heart,
not a behavioral approach.
00:25:07.87\00:25:12.07
Okay, wait, say that again.
00:25:12.11\00:25:13.48
I don't want to run past that.
00:25:13.51\00:25:14.98
That's huge. I
mean, that's like...
00:25:15.01\00:25:16.64
I know. That's huge.
00:25:16.68\00:25:19.05
It's the
conversion of the heart,
00:25:19.08\00:25:21.22
okay, not a pursuit
to be any particular...
00:25:21.25\00:25:25.85
Yeah, it's not a seeking out
00:25:25.89\00:25:28.16
to make you
straight or heterosexual.
00:25:28.19\00:25:30.89
But God is after your heart
to come into a point with Him,
00:25:30.93\00:25:35.30
where you want to
live in agreement with Him.
00:25:35.33\00:25:37.93
Now, there's many
single people that don't marry.
00:25:37.97\00:25:40.64
There are some people
00:25:40.67\00:25:42.00
that are celibate
their entire lives.
00:25:42.04\00:25:43.57
But what I want
to point out here,
00:25:43.61\00:25:45.17
sexual orientation
wasn't given unto us
00:25:45.21\00:25:47.64
like a compass in
the Bible that says,
00:25:47.68\00:25:49.51
"If you prefer this kind of sex,
00:25:49.54\00:25:51.15
go this direction.
00:25:51.18\00:25:52.51
If you like that kind
of sex, go that direction."
00:25:52.55\00:25:54.62
It's still within the confines
of which God gave it to us
00:25:54.65\00:25:58.19
in the gift of intimacy
00:25:58.22\00:25:59.59
between one man and one woman.
00:25:59.62\00:26:01.22
So let's drop sexual identity
00:26:01.26\00:26:03.46
and sexual orientation
right from the get go,
00:26:03.49\00:26:06.73
because I don't know
how we as a denomination
00:26:06.76\00:26:10.37
came to a point where
we were so considerate
00:26:10.40\00:26:13.10
about somebody's
sexual orientation,
00:26:13.13\00:26:15.47
instead of their
orientation in Jesus Christ.
00:26:15.50\00:26:18.27
Wow, very good point.
00:26:18.31\00:26:19.64
That's powerful,
00:26:19.67\00:26:21.01
because I want to
share something with you,
00:26:21.04\00:26:22.38
and this is, you
know, why this topic
00:26:22.41\00:26:24.75
is so vitally important.
00:26:24.78\00:26:26.28
And we're talking to those
who are watching the program
00:26:26.31\00:26:28.42
and those who are listening.
00:26:28.45\00:26:30.49
It's because we
know in the experience
00:26:30.52\00:26:33.36
of the many years in ministry.
00:26:33.39\00:26:34.72
There are some
pastors, who have children,
00:26:34.76\00:26:36.29
who are struggling in
these areas of their lives.
00:26:36.32\00:26:38.69
And so the pastor, the clergy,
00:26:38.73\00:26:40.06
the husband and wife
00:26:40.10\00:26:41.43
are in this precarious situation
00:26:41.46\00:26:42.80
as a pastor.
00:26:42.83\00:26:44.17
Well, how do I
shepherd my flock,
00:26:44.20\00:26:46.33
knowing that they know
that my son or my daughter
00:26:46.37\00:26:48.60
is living a different life
00:26:48.64\00:26:50.01
than what I've
proclaimed from the pulpit?
00:26:50.04\00:26:52.61
And so in some cases,
some children have been,
00:26:52.64\00:26:55.88
you know, sequestered off stage
00:26:55.91\00:26:57.25
in a soundproof
room feeling that
00:26:57.28\00:26:58.61
they've been
rejected by their parents
00:26:58.65\00:27:00.58
so that they can be
successful ministers.
00:27:00.62\00:27:03.08
Others have taken the next road.
00:27:03.12\00:27:04.65
They have left the ministry
to give love and attention
00:27:04.69\00:27:08.29
to their child,
whether boy or girl.
00:27:08.32\00:27:11.43
But then some have
gone to the other extreme.
00:27:11.46\00:27:13.06
They've left the ministry,
00:27:13.09\00:27:14.43
and they've become
proponents of that whole thing,
00:27:14.46\00:27:17.10
you know, the gay
marches, the gay rallies.
00:27:17.13\00:27:19.37
And endorsement, yeah.
00:27:19.40\00:27:20.74
And endorsement,
they went from acceptance
00:27:20.77\00:27:23.74
to endorsement to
campaigning and saying,
00:27:23.77\00:27:26.98
"Well, this is who they are,
00:27:27.01\00:27:28.34
accept them as they are,
and don't try to change them."
00:27:28.38\00:27:30.75
But I just heard you say
is this whole shock therapy,
00:27:30.78\00:27:34.35
sticking needles, trying
to brainwash people, it's...
00:27:34.38\00:27:37.52
It's obsolete.
00:27:37.55\00:27:38.89
That doesn't happen.
00:27:38.92\00:27:40.69
So, let's talk about things
from a redemptive standpoint.
00:27:40.72\00:27:44.33
Let's talk about
how we grow in Christ
00:27:44.36\00:27:47.13
and what Christ asked for us.
00:27:47.16\00:27:48.93
And, you know, so I was...
00:27:48.96\00:27:51.43
I was like a bulldog
at the door of the church
00:27:51.47\00:27:53.70
when I first was converted.
00:27:53.74\00:27:55.20
I was like, "Let
the gay people come in
00:27:55.24\00:27:58.27
and don't try to
make them heterosexual."
00:27:58.31\00:28:00.01
You know because
that's what they're so sure
00:28:00.04\00:28:02.81
that the church wants to do.
00:28:02.84\00:28:04.35
But the church has
not been educated on this.
00:28:04.38\00:28:06.55
And most people think,
00:28:06.58\00:28:07.92
"Oh, the
opposite of homosexuality
00:28:07.95\00:28:10.12
is heterosexuality."
00:28:10.15\00:28:11.92
So I tried to say
today that you know,
00:28:11.95\00:28:16.02
the opposite of
homosexuality is holiness.
00:28:16.06\00:28:19.39
Now we have...
00:28:19.43\00:28:20.76
We actually... Say that again.
00:28:20.80\00:28:22.13
The opposite of homosexuality
or any sinful behavior
00:28:22.16\00:28:25.00
is holiness.
00:28:25.03\00:28:26.37
Okay.
00:28:26.40\00:28:27.74
Now, I just heard
recently through LGBT activists
00:28:27.77\00:28:30.21
that are ministerial graduates
00:28:30.24\00:28:32.67
from one of our
universities say, "Holiness."
00:28:32.71\00:28:37.38
"What in the world
are you talking about?
00:28:37.41\00:28:39.05
What is holiness?"
00:28:39.08\00:28:40.42
And I was like,
"Whoa, wait a minute.
00:28:40.45\00:28:42.45
So you went through years
00:28:42.48\00:28:44.05
in seminary and
study of the Word
00:28:44.09\00:28:46.09
and you don't know what it
is to be drawn to holiness?"
00:28:46.12\00:28:49.29
Wow. That is...
00:28:49.32\00:28:50.66
That is
heartbreaking to hear that
00:28:50.69\00:28:52.53
because they're
scoffing at ministries like
00:28:52.56\00:28:54.93
Know His love and
Coming Out Ministries,
00:28:54.96\00:28:57.20
when what we're seeking to do
00:28:57.23\00:28:59.03
is put people in a
relationship with Jesus Christ,
00:28:59.07\00:29:02.60
where He brings
about hope and healing.
00:29:02.64\00:29:05.81
Now, what we've done,
and I'm guilty of this too,
00:29:05.84\00:29:09.91
is I stopped, I did stop
00:29:09.94\00:29:12.08
at surrendering
and repentance to Jesus
00:29:12.11\00:29:15.02
as though there wasn't
any more available for me.
00:29:15.05\00:29:18.19
And now, I learned
about the fourth R.
00:29:18.22\00:29:21.92
Okay, don't go to it yet.
00:29:21.96\00:29:23.73
I want to segue into
that with this scripture.
00:29:23.76\00:29:25.09
Sure.
00:29:25.13\00:29:26.46
Because as people are listening,
00:29:26.49\00:29:27.83
somebody might say, "Well,
00:29:27.86\00:29:29.20
could you give me some Bible?"
00:29:29.23\00:29:30.57
Yes, let's get some Bible. Yes.
00:29:30.60\00:29:31.93
And some people say,
"Well, not the Old Testament."
00:29:31.97\00:29:33.30
For some reason, some
people have an aversion
00:29:33.34\00:29:34.67
to the Old Testament.
00:29:34.70\00:29:36.04
I think, well, that's how
it was under the Jewish system.
00:29:36.07\00:29:37.97
Let's go to the New
Testament. I want to read...
00:29:38.01\00:29:40.18
I'm reading now Paul's
writings in 1 Corinthians 6:9,
00:29:40.21\00:29:46.15
and listen to this list.
00:29:46.18\00:29:47.62
And what I want to read is...
00:29:47.65\00:29:48.98
What I want you to listen to,
00:29:49.02\00:29:50.35
as I read this list is
Paul is not singling out
00:29:50.39\00:29:52.55
any particular
challenge in any person's life.
00:29:52.59\00:29:55.16
He's putting all these...
00:29:55.19\00:29:57.43
It's inclusive, not exclusive.
00:29:57.46\00:29:58.89
And he's putting
all of the categories
00:29:58.93\00:30:01.96
that he lists here as places
00:30:02.00\00:30:05.17
where you can be redeemed from.
00:30:05.20\00:30:07.27
Listen to this,
1 Corinthians 6:9,
00:30:07.30\00:30:09.50
"Do you not know
00:30:09.54\00:30:11.51
that the
unrighteous will not inherit
00:30:11.54\00:30:14.01
the kingdom of God?"
00:30:14.04\00:30:15.48
And he says, "Do
not be deceived."
00:30:15.51\00:30:18.35
That's what you're saying,
00:30:18.38\00:30:19.71
"Don't be deceived."
00:30:19.75\00:30:21.08
Listen to the list,
"Neither fornicators,
00:30:21.12\00:30:23.62
nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
00:30:23.65\00:30:26.62
nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,"
00:30:26.65\00:30:30.46
verse 9, now verse 10,
"Nor thieves," look at...
00:30:30.49\00:30:33.63
He goes from, now, sexual
sin to other types of sin,
00:30:33.66\00:30:37.57
"Nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards,
00:30:37.60\00:30:40.94
nor revilers, nor extortioners
00:30:40.97\00:30:44.01
will inherit
the kingdom of God."
00:30:44.04\00:30:45.84
But he doesn't stop there.
00:30:45.87\00:30:47.54
How many did you
count? Ten of them.
00:30:47.58\00:30:48.91
Ten, but some people
single out one and say,
00:30:48.94\00:30:51.15
"No, this one is special.
00:30:51.18\00:30:52.51
Let's leave this one alone."
00:30:52.55\00:30:53.88
That's what's happening today.
00:30:53.92\00:30:55.25
But now, look at the
next verse, verse 11.
00:30:55.28\00:30:56.82
And this is what
you're going to talk about now
00:30:56.85\00:30:58.32
on the fourth R,
00:30:58.35\00:31:00.46
"And such were some of you.
00:31:00.49\00:31:04.83
But you were washed,
but you were sanctified,
00:31:04.86\00:31:10.23
but you were justified in
the name of the Lord Jesus,
00:31:10.27\00:31:15.84
and by the Spirit of our God."
00:31:15.87\00:31:19.64
That's huge.
00:31:19.67\00:31:21.21
That's what
you're saying, Wayne.
00:31:21.24\00:31:23.11
Why are we not saying that?
00:31:23.14\00:31:24.91
Yeah, exactly.
We're not saying...
00:31:24.95\00:31:26.28
And can you imagine
00:31:26.31\00:31:27.65
if a thief come to
our church and say,
00:31:27.68\00:31:29.02
hey, he's a thief.
00:31:29.05\00:31:30.39
We want him to be our treasurer.
00:31:30.42\00:31:31.75
And I say, "Whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:31:31.79\00:31:33.19
He just said he's
a recovering thief,
00:31:33.22\00:31:34.86
why would we make
him a treasurer, right?"
00:31:34.89\00:31:37.23
He could say...
00:31:37.26\00:31:38.59
Well, we're here,
waiting for him to say is,
00:31:38.63\00:31:40.63
"You know that
was what I used to do.
00:31:40.66\00:31:42.93
I've been so redeemed
00:31:42.96\00:31:44.33
that doesn't
even come to my mind.
00:31:44.37\00:31:45.70
You can trust me
00:31:45.73\00:31:47.07
with the
finances of the church."
00:31:47.10\00:31:48.44
Because the Apostle Paul,
00:31:48.47\00:31:49.80
what was he before he became
00:31:49.84\00:31:51.17
the strongest
proponent in the New Testament?
00:31:51.21\00:31:54.81
He consulted to the persecution
and the killing of Christians.
00:31:54.84\00:31:59.75
But when he met
Jesus, such was some of that.
00:31:59.78\00:32:03.45
Amen.
00:32:03.49\00:32:04.82
Okay, now, let's
go to the fourth R.
00:32:04.85\00:32:06.19
Yeah.
00:32:06.22\00:32:07.56
So I just want
to put out quickly
00:32:07.59\00:32:08.92
that there are smokescreens
00:32:08.96\00:32:10.49
within our own denomination
00:32:10.53\00:32:12.33
to keep us from seeing
what God really has to offer.
00:32:12.36\00:32:15.40
And so LGBT Christians
or Adventists, even today,
00:32:15.43\00:32:18.90
put up what is
called Queer Theology.
00:32:18.93\00:32:21.70
That we can go
outside of Scripture
00:32:21.74\00:32:24.21
that we can go and do
some historical background
00:32:24.24\00:32:26.61
to find out that
00:32:26.64\00:32:27.98
what God really
had a problem with
00:32:28.01\00:32:29.34
were molesters and rapists,
00:32:29.38\00:32:31.38
and these kinds of things,
00:32:31.41\00:32:33.25
but that God doesn't have
any problem with monogamous,
00:32:33.28\00:32:35.88
same sex relationships.
00:32:35.92\00:32:37.59
And again, this is, kind of,
00:32:37.62\00:32:39.05
what the Guiding
Families book kind of goes down
00:32:39.09\00:32:41.92
that same type of smokescreen.
00:32:41.96\00:32:44.96
But when I go
to Scripture alone,
00:32:44.99\00:32:47.26
and I believe
that you can trust God
00:32:47.30\00:32:49.10
from beginning to end,
00:32:49.13\00:32:50.47
from Genesis to Revelation,
00:32:50.50\00:32:51.97
from first breath until last
00:32:52.00\00:32:55.27
that He offers me
something so much more
00:32:55.30\00:32:58.57
if I walk with Him
and surrender to Him.
00:32:58.61\00:33:00.74
Amen.
00:33:00.78\00:33:02.11
And so the fourth R...
00:33:02.14\00:33:03.48
Is the Rebuild.
00:33:06.45\00:33:09.92
In Rebuild, the Lord takes you,
00:33:09.95\00:33:12.82
and literally He
does the work for you.
00:33:12.85\00:33:15.22
He makes you into
someone new. Beautiful.
00:33:15.26\00:33:17.59
He doesn't say
that, "I promised you
00:33:17.63\00:33:21.00
that I will give you
opposite sex attraction."
00:33:21.03\00:33:23.63
But He does show that
if we will go to His Word,
00:33:23.67\00:33:26.97
and if we combine this
00:33:27.00\00:33:28.34
even with mental
health specialists
00:33:28.37\00:33:30.41
that are in
agreement with God's Word,
00:33:30.44\00:33:33.04
that sometimes we can find out
00:33:33.07\00:33:34.78
some of the reasoning
00:33:34.81\00:33:36.14
for why we've had
some of the weaknesses
00:33:36.18\00:33:38.21
that we have.
00:33:38.25\00:33:39.65
And when we do that, from...
00:33:39.68\00:33:41.15
You know, there's AA
00:33:41.18\00:33:42.52
and things outside of the church
00:33:42.55\00:33:43.89
for various types of problems,
00:33:43.92\00:33:45.59
drug addicts and various things.
00:33:45.62\00:33:47.39
But we should be
coming inside the church,
00:33:47.42\00:33:50.86
where the true healing is,
00:33:50.89\00:33:52.23
where James 5:16 says,
00:33:52.26\00:33:53.60
"Let's confess our
weaknesses to one another
00:33:53.63\00:33:56.40
and experience the healing
that God has promised us."
00:33:56.43\00:33:59.80
So when you go to someone,
00:33:59.83\00:34:01.24
who might have a
better understanding,
00:34:01.27\00:34:03.07
who is trained to
help you to get in the mud
00:34:03.10\00:34:06.17
and wallow with you
through the dirt to say,
00:34:06.21\00:34:08.11
"Hey, you know, let's
look at that your childhood.
00:34:08.14\00:34:11.71
Let's look at various
things along the way."
00:34:11.75\00:34:14.18
That when we begin to
dissect some of those things
00:34:14.22\00:34:17.32
that we might,
00:34:17.35\00:34:18.92
a health professional
00:34:18.95\00:34:20.29
or a mental health professional,
00:34:20.32\00:34:22.36
somebody of the Word
00:34:22.39\00:34:24.13
maybe able to put
tools in your hands
00:34:24.16\00:34:27.00
that help
rebuild you as a person
00:34:27.03\00:34:29.46
to get all that
Jesus has promised you.
00:34:29.50\00:34:31.90
I love that.
00:34:31.93\00:34:33.27
Why wouldn't you want
everything that God intended
00:34:33.30\00:34:36.24
if you've surrendered and
given your life to Christ?
00:34:36.27\00:34:38.87
Are you putting up a
roadblock and saying,
00:34:38.91\00:34:40.71
"Oh, I only want to go this far.
00:34:40.74\00:34:42.78
I don't want anything more
00:34:42.81\00:34:44.15
or I don't believe
anything more as possible"?
00:34:44.18\00:34:46.58
Or are you open to receiving
00:34:46.61\00:34:48.95
what God has in store for you?
00:34:48.98\00:34:51.02
I don't know.
00:34:51.05\00:34:52.39
Maybe that is
somebody of the opposite sex.
00:34:52.42\00:34:54.49
Maybe it's not.
00:34:54.52\00:34:55.86
But if I don't discover it,
00:34:55.89\00:34:57.23
if I don't walk
further along the path,
00:34:57.26\00:34:59.59
I'll never know.
00:34:59.63\00:35:00.96
And I want everything
that Jesus has promised me.
00:35:01.00\00:35:04.33
That's beautiful.
00:35:04.37\00:35:05.70
We're all on a journey.
00:35:05.73\00:35:08.14
You know, honey, you know,
that was my favorite scripture
00:35:08.17\00:35:11.04
in the Bible, 1 John 3:1-2.
00:35:11.07\00:35:15.21
It's so beautiful.
00:35:15.24\00:35:16.58
You know, 1 John 3:2,
00:35:16.61\00:35:18.01
"Beloved, now, we
are children of God,
00:35:18.05\00:35:22.28
and it has not yet been revealed
00:35:22.32\00:35:23.99
what we shall be."
00:35:24.02\00:35:25.35
That's the journey
you're talking about.
00:35:25.39\00:35:26.72
Yeah.
00:35:26.76\00:35:28.09
"But we do know
that when He is revealed
00:35:28.12\00:35:29.46
we shall be like Him
00:35:29.49\00:35:30.83
for we shall see Him as He is."
00:35:30.86\00:35:32.19
So the Lord
meets us where we are,
00:35:32.23\00:35:33.86
and He doesn't
immediately reveal to us
00:35:33.90\00:35:35.73
what we're going to be.
00:35:35.76\00:35:37.10
But He says, "When I'm
done," Philippians 1:6,
00:35:37.13\00:35:39.27
"He who has begun a
good work will complete it."
00:35:39.30\00:35:41.00
Amen.
00:35:41.04\00:35:42.37
Okay, so that's what
you're talking about?
00:35:42.40\00:35:44.04
Yes. Yeah.
00:35:44.07\00:35:45.41
And John 10:10,
00:35:45.44\00:35:46.84
"The thief
comes, not but to steal,
00:35:46.88\00:35:48.74
to kill and destroy."
00:35:48.78\00:35:50.11
But what you're saying is,
00:35:50.15\00:35:51.48
"But I've come
that you might have life
00:35:51.51\00:35:52.85
and have it more abundantly."
00:35:52.88\00:35:54.22
Amen. Am I hearing you say that?
00:35:54.25\00:35:55.58
Yes. So whether...
00:35:55.62\00:35:56.99
I've been studying,
you know, recently about,
00:35:57.02\00:35:59.29
you know, the parable
about the sower of the seed
00:35:59.32\00:36:03.46
and where the seed has fallen.
00:36:03.49\00:36:05.29
You know, if the seed
falls on rocky ground,
00:36:05.33\00:36:09.30
and there's a certain
amount of rebellion...
00:36:09.33\00:36:10.83
And you don't want...
00:36:10.87\00:36:12.40
God is not going to force you
into anything you don't want.
00:36:12.43\00:36:14.70
That's right.
00:36:14.74\00:36:16.07
And so is the
soil within me fertile
00:36:16.10\00:36:20.18
for what God wants to do?
00:36:20.21\00:36:22.04
Has He planted a seed
in me that's going to grow
00:36:22.08\00:36:24.55
or have I stopped the growing?
00:36:24.58\00:36:28.28
Have I stopped
watering the seed myself?
00:36:28.32\00:36:30.05
I have to be in
this Word every day.
00:36:30.09\00:36:31.99
I need to be in the
presence of Christ every day
00:36:32.02\00:36:35.06
in order to get the
healing that He has promised me.
00:36:35.09\00:36:38.23
And so in ministry
today, my focus is now,
00:36:38.26\00:36:41.63
kind of, switching to
all that Jesus has promised.
00:36:41.66\00:36:45.10
And I'm not going to
live in fear of the accusation
00:36:45.13\00:36:47.97
of conversion and
reparative therapy.
00:36:48.00\00:36:49.84
But I am going to pull
and hold up a big capital C
00:36:49.87\00:36:53.44
for the conversion of the heart
00:36:53.48\00:36:54.98
that Jesus
intends for all of us.
00:36:55.01\00:36:57.85
And, you know, I used to be that
00:36:57.88\00:36:59.55
my focus was on
leadership, which is really,
00:36:59.58\00:37:02.78
you know, where the
book Guiding Families,
00:37:02.82\00:37:05.29
kind of, came from.
00:37:05.32\00:37:06.65
And I think that
people were either ignorant,
00:37:06.69\00:37:12.26
or perhaps even willfully blind
00:37:12.29\00:37:15.00
to not want all
that Jesus offers.
00:37:15.03\00:37:17.40
So that's why I
wrote Line By Line again,
00:37:17.43\00:37:21.67
for the viewer.
00:37:21.70\00:37:23.04
And, you know, you
can go to knowhislove.org
00:37:23.07\00:37:26.51
in order to get
your copy of this.
00:37:26.54\00:37:28.34
You can also go...
00:37:28.38\00:37:29.71
I want you to have
the Guiding Families book,
00:37:29.74\00:37:31.58
because I think it's important
that you read the book,
00:37:31.61\00:37:34.65
read the two books together.
00:37:34.68\00:37:36.22
And you can go
to adventsource.org
00:37:36.25\00:37:39.02
to get a free copy
of Guiding Families
00:37:39.05\00:37:41.32
then read them together.
00:37:41.36\00:37:42.76
I can't make the this...
00:37:42.79\00:37:44.13
I'm not Holy Spirit Junior.
00:37:44.16\00:37:45.49
So I don't bring
conviction upon your heart.
00:37:45.53\00:37:48.13
Only you and asking the
Holy Spirit to guide you
00:37:48.16\00:37:52.03
in between these two books
00:37:52.07\00:37:53.90
can understand and see
00:37:53.94\00:37:55.60
what it is that Jesus
has to offer all of us.
00:37:55.64\00:37:59.11
So my focus today is
in providing an education
00:37:59.14\00:38:02.34
from God's
trusted Word to parents,
00:38:02.38\00:38:05.18
to family, to
pastors, and most of all,
00:38:05.21\00:38:08.02
to the person who struggles.
00:38:08.05\00:38:09.92
It's not that God
is trying to turn you
00:38:09.95\00:38:12.02
into a raving heterosexual,
00:38:12.05\00:38:14.72
but that He wants
your heart for Him.
00:38:14.76\00:38:17.63
He knew you
before you were born.
00:38:17.66\00:38:19.59
He wants only the
very, very best for you.
00:38:19.63\00:38:22.53
But if you have
these brick walls up,
00:38:22.56\00:38:24.57
and He can't get through to you.
00:38:24.60\00:38:26.87
So yes, lots of
things have been done
00:38:26.90\00:38:30.11
that are not good,
00:38:30.14\00:38:32.51
even from within
Christianity today.
00:38:32.54\00:38:35.04
I think we're
sharing with you yesterday
00:38:35.08\00:38:36.44
what my pipe dream is.
00:38:36.48\00:38:38.18
And my pipe dream is this.
00:38:38.21\00:38:39.71
I believe that is our church
00:38:39.75\00:38:42.38
should look
towards the LGBT people
00:38:42.42\00:38:45.39
into their
families and apologize
00:38:45.42\00:38:47.92
for only having had a
statement on homosexuality,
00:38:47.96\00:38:53.13
and to say, "We haven't
known how to minister to you,
00:38:53.16\00:38:56.30
but you are
precious in God's sight.
00:38:56.33\00:38:58.73
And you are
valued in God's sight
00:38:58.77\00:39:00.67
and we want only
the best for you also."
00:39:00.70\00:39:03.44
And then the LGBT community
or even LGBT Adventists
00:39:03.47\00:39:07.74
would step back
and go, "Wait a minute,
00:39:07.78\00:39:09.71
I was not expecting an apology."
00:39:09.74\00:39:12.35
But humbling
ourselves before God and saying,
00:39:12.38\00:39:16.75
"We accept your apology.
00:39:16.79\00:39:18.99
Could we come together
at the foot of the cross?
00:39:19.02\00:39:21.76
Can we study this out together?
00:39:21.79\00:39:23.53
Can we see what it
is that God does desire
00:39:23.56\00:39:26.23
and expect of me
00:39:26.26\00:39:27.60
so that I can be whole in Him?"
00:39:27.63\00:39:29.73
Amen.
00:39:29.76\00:39:31.10
That's well said, beautiful.
00:39:31.13\00:39:32.47
I can't even break in.
That was so beautifully said.
00:39:32.50\00:39:33.84
No, you said it so beautiful.
00:39:33.87\00:39:35.20
Now in your book Line By
Line, you have 21 testimonies.
00:39:35.24\00:39:40.54
Yeah. Why 21?
00:39:40.58\00:39:42.98
Amazing testimonies, why 21?
00:39:43.01\00:39:45.81
Well, I was just about
finished writing the analysis,
00:39:45.85\00:39:51.19
and I was on my way to
take shower one morning,
00:39:51.22\00:39:53.22
and God got my attention.
00:39:53.25\00:39:55.26
And I said, "You know, Lord."
00:39:55.29\00:39:57.89
I said, "There's a lot of people
00:39:57.93\00:39:59.26
that know Wayne
Blakely's opinion."
00:39:59.29\00:40:00.63
I said, "This is not about me.
00:40:00.66\00:40:02.50
This is about You.
00:40:02.53\00:40:04.00
Would You give me something
to help the reader know
00:40:04.03\00:40:07.64
that this is honoring
and glorifying Jesus."
00:40:07.67\00:40:11.07
And I got this impression that,
00:40:11.11\00:40:12.57
"Well, Wayne, you know
there's a lot of people
00:40:12.61\00:40:14.28
on the Adventist
Church that just think,
00:40:14.31\00:40:16.14
you know, there's
Coming Out Ministries
00:40:16.18\00:40:17.51
and there's you."
00:40:17.55\00:40:18.88
And that's
basically all there is
00:40:18.91\00:40:20.25
and that's the
narrow sight on this.
00:40:20.28\00:40:23.05
But when you know
00:40:23.08\00:40:24.42
that this is not a
denominational issue.
00:40:24.45\00:40:27.52
This is a faith issue,
00:40:27.56\00:40:28.96
and it goes well
beyond Adventism.
00:40:28.99\00:40:31.19
And there are
multiple ministries
00:40:31.23\00:40:33.29
in the world today
00:40:33.33\00:40:34.66
about leaving the LGBT
plus culture for Jesus Christ.
00:40:34.70\00:40:37.70
And He says, "Why don't
you get their testimonies
00:40:37.73\00:40:40.30
and add them to your book."
00:40:40.34\00:40:41.84
So in the book,
there are seven testimonies
00:40:41.87\00:40:44.11
from Adventists.
00:40:44.14\00:40:45.47
But there are 14 testimonies
00:40:45.51\00:40:46.84
that are in
agreement with Scripture
00:40:46.88\00:40:48.84
that are from
non-Adventists as well,
00:40:48.88\00:40:50.78
because we are God's people
and God's people are universal,
00:40:50.81\00:40:54.85
certainly, not just
from one denomination.
00:40:54.88\00:40:57.52
But you also deal
with pornography too?
00:40:57.55\00:41:00.12
Yes. Yeah, they're...
00:41:00.16\00:41:01.52
One of the
testimonies in the book,
00:41:01.56\00:41:03.76
particularly, Kezia,
00:41:03.79\00:41:05.99
who is with
Coming Out Ministries,
00:41:06.03\00:41:08.70
and often you don't expect
to hear this type of testimony
00:41:08.73\00:41:11.73
coming from a female.
00:41:11.77\00:41:13.30
And so she shares about her walk
00:41:13.34\00:41:16.07
within the world of pornography
00:41:16.10\00:41:17.91
and how it captivated her
life for a very long time.
00:41:17.94\00:41:20.81
And then how God
brought about freedom to her,
00:41:20.84\00:41:24.21
actually, through
Coming Out Ministries,
00:41:24.25\00:41:25.75
which is an amazing testimony.
00:41:25.78\00:41:27.58
And I highly
recommend Coming Out Ministries
00:41:27.62\00:41:30.99
for a resource of
speakers and people
00:41:31.02\00:41:33.05
who are willing to
speak out on redemptive ways,
00:41:33.09\00:41:35.49
to leave the LGBT world,
00:41:35.52\00:41:37.53
as well as from my own ministry,
00:41:37.56\00:41:39.26
I Know His Love
ministries, who I'm...
00:41:39.29\00:41:42.73
I've spoken around
the world on this topic,
00:41:42.76\00:41:45.10
to pastoral retreats
and to churches today.
00:41:45.13\00:41:49.17
I think that it's something that
00:41:49.20\00:41:50.54
we need not hide from anymore.
00:41:50.57\00:41:52.87
These are current issues.
00:41:52.91\00:41:54.44
This topic has
divided many churches,
00:41:54.48\00:41:56.71
most recently
the Methodist Church,
00:41:56.75\00:41:58.81
but it's done the
same with Presbyterian
00:41:58.85\00:42:00.75
and Lutheran and others.
00:42:00.78\00:42:02.32
And questions have come about
00:42:02.35\00:42:04.29
will it split
the Adventist Church?
00:42:04.32\00:42:06.92
You know, it has
the potential to do that
00:42:06.96\00:42:09.46
unless we get the education
00:42:09.49\00:42:11.33
that we should have in order
to reach out and help people,
00:42:11.36\00:42:15.03
who are finding
themselves in the struggle.
00:42:15.06\00:42:17.73
Go through those
four Rs very quickly.
00:42:17.77\00:42:20.57
The first is Rebel.
00:42:20.60\00:42:22.10
Rebel, so basically,
I'm fine just the way I am.
00:42:22.14\00:42:24.77
I don't need to do anything.
00:42:24.81\00:42:26.14
Okay, Resist.
00:42:26.17\00:42:27.71
Resist is well, I understand
how God doesn't want me
00:42:27.74\00:42:31.98
to just be openly gay
00:42:32.01\00:42:33.35
and to be promiscuous
and those kinds of things,
00:42:33.38\00:42:36.25
but He will honor my
monogamous relationship
00:42:36.28\00:42:39.09
before Him.
00:42:39.12\00:42:40.46
Okay, Renounce.
00:42:40.49\00:42:41.82
Renounce is letting go
of the world terminology
00:42:41.86\00:42:45.26
of being gay or LGBT,
00:42:45.29\00:42:47.00
and accepting an
identity in Christ.
00:42:47.03\00:42:49.53
But now you, kind
of, have this albatross
00:42:49.56\00:42:51.60
around your neck
that you're going to walk
00:42:51.63\00:42:53.03
with these
temptations and desires,
00:42:53.07\00:42:55.30
and you're just
kind of stuck there.
00:42:55.34\00:42:57.34
You arrive at a point
of walking with Christ,
00:42:57.37\00:43:01.14
but you're not necessarily
looking beyond to see
00:43:01.18\00:43:03.61
what else He
might have to offer,
00:43:03.65\00:43:05.65
which is in...
00:43:05.68\00:43:07.22
Rebuild. Rebuild.
00:43:07.25\00:43:09.12
And Rebuild is
where I plan to stay
00:43:09.15\00:43:12.95
until Jesus comes
00:43:12.99\00:43:14.32
because I want
everything that He promises me.
00:43:14.36\00:43:17.49
He who has begun a good
work in you will complete it.
00:43:17.53\00:43:20.60
You know, if
anyone is in Christ,
00:43:20.63\00:43:22.20
he is a new creation.
00:43:22.23\00:43:23.57
And in Isaiah 1:16 say,
00:43:23.60\00:43:24.93
"Cease to do
evil, learn to do good."
00:43:24.97\00:43:26.77
And that's what
you're talking about.
00:43:26.80\00:43:28.20
A lot of people have not
been exposed to the learning.
00:43:28.24\00:43:31.14
The Bible even tells us that
00:43:31.17\00:43:32.51
"Parents train up your
child on the way he should go."
00:43:32.54\00:43:35.64
And so we as pastors,
when we baptize people...
00:43:35.68\00:43:39.25
And, honey, you know that
we have a baptismal class.
00:43:39.28\00:43:41.85
We have a
continual ongoing class
00:43:41.88\00:43:45.42
because there are
some people that come in,
00:43:45.45\00:43:47.12
that come from
different denominations,
00:43:47.16\00:43:48.49
different doctrine of
beliefs, and they say,
00:43:48.52\00:43:49.96
"Okay, I
understood then they'll say,
00:43:49.99\00:43:51.36
see you next Sunday.
00:43:51.39\00:43:52.83
I mean, see you next Sabbath."
00:43:52.86\00:43:54.46
And there's some who have
been doing that for years.
00:43:54.50\00:43:56.67
And they say, "You know
I have to be in that way
00:43:56.70\00:43:58.13
for a long time."
00:43:58.17\00:43:59.50
It takes a while to
get it out of your head.
00:43:59.53\00:44:01.70
But they said
they're learning that.
00:44:01.74\00:44:03.54
Am I hearing you say that? Yes.
00:44:03.57\00:44:05.34
Wait, wait, wait, after being
00:44:05.37\00:44:07.14
in the LGBT plus
community for over 40 years,
00:44:07.18\00:44:13.11
I like this question,
00:44:13.15\00:44:14.48
have you
struggled with your past?
00:44:14.52\00:44:16.92
Well, clearly,
failure has indicated that,
00:44:16.95\00:44:20.32
yes, it has been a struggle.
00:44:20.36\00:44:21.89
I believe this that,
00:44:21.92\00:44:24.09
you know, none of
us need to have entered
00:44:24.13\00:44:27.53
into the depths of sin.
00:44:27.56\00:44:28.90
And there have been
many who have walked with God
00:44:28.93\00:44:31.23
throughout their entire lives,
00:44:31.27\00:44:32.83
and we know
that that's possible.
00:44:32.87\00:44:35.17
But if you've been
derailed and you find
00:44:35.20\00:44:38.11
that you have walked
in the depths of sin,
00:44:38.14\00:44:42.08
it can be a real challenge
when you walk back with God
00:44:42.11\00:44:46.48
because Satan's not so
readily relinquishing you.
00:44:46.51\00:44:50.09
And so, today it
is often a struggle
00:44:50.12\00:44:53.32
I'm reminded of how my
past used to define me.
00:44:53.36\00:44:58.59
And so I have to keep
reminding the enemy as like,
00:44:58.63\00:45:00.86
"I'm not there anymore.
00:45:00.90\00:45:02.23
I'm here with a new
identity in Jesus Christ."
00:45:02.26\00:45:04.93
I love that.
00:45:04.97\00:45:06.30
Galatians 6:1,
00:45:06.33\00:45:07.67
the Bible is filled
with redemptive scriptures.
00:45:07.70\00:45:09.74
Here's another one.
00:45:09.77\00:45:11.11
"Brethren, if a man is
overtaken in any trespass,
00:45:11.14\00:45:14.94
you who are spiritual,
00:45:14.98\00:45:17.01
restore such one in
a spirit of gentleness,
00:45:17.05\00:45:21.58
consider yourself
less you also be tempted."
00:45:21.62\00:45:25.22
Paul is talking about
the frailty of humanity
00:45:25.25\00:45:27.62
but the brotherhood of
redemption and restoration.
00:45:27.66\00:45:30.39
He says, "You're
just as weak as he is,
00:45:30.43\00:45:32.53
don't think you're not.
00:45:32.56\00:45:33.90
But be spiritual when
you work with this person,
00:45:33.93\00:45:36.10
help restore that individual."
00:45:36.13\00:45:37.87
Why is that not being
taught in the context of
00:45:37.90\00:45:41.50
helping people in
the LGBTIQ community?
00:45:41.54\00:45:45.11
You know, I've
often heard today,
00:45:45.14\00:45:48.71
even in
congregations today is like,
00:45:48.74\00:45:51.01
"Well, you know,
I'm a sinner too.
00:45:51.05\00:45:53.15
And my, your sin is
no worse than mine."
00:45:53.18\00:45:55.55
And so people aren't
getting what God promises.
00:45:55.58\00:45:58.49
And we go to
church and we hear each...
00:45:58.52\00:46:00.32
You hear messages,
and you go to potluck
00:46:00.36\00:46:02.92
and it's just been a routine.
00:46:02.96\00:46:04.86
But I want to
reach out to anybody
00:46:04.89\00:46:07.26
who thinks that they're lost,
00:46:07.30\00:46:09.66
and that they're not redeemable.
00:46:09.70\00:46:11.40
If you're sitting
in a church pew today
00:46:11.43\00:46:13.60
and you struggle,
or in a pulpit today,
00:46:13.64\00:46:16.67
and you struggle
with pornography,
00:46:16.71\00:46:20.31
God still has His hand on you
00:46:20.34\00:46:22.71
and redemption is
possible through Him.
00:46:22.74\00:46:25.28
Do not give up.
00:46:25.31\00:46:26.65
Reach out and
talk to somebody often.
00:46:26.68\00:46:28.42
The question is,
who do pastors...
00:46:28.45\00:46:29.98
How can...
00:46:30.02\00:46:31.35
Who does a pastor
have that they can talk to,
00:46:31.39\00:46:34.26
otherwise they may
get kicked to the curb
00:46:34.29\00:46:36.76
and alienated and pushed away?
00:46:36.79\00:46:38.76
Get in touch with
Coming Out Ministries.
00:46:38.79\00:46:40.53
Get in touch with
Know His Love Ministries.
00:46:40.56\00:46:42.73
Talk to somebody,
00:46:42.76\00:46:44.10
who will help you along the way,
00:46:44.13\00:46:45.60
who will pray with you,
00:46:45.63\00:46:46.97
who will encourage
you and let you know
00:46:47.00\00:46:48.60
that God is not done with you.
00:46:48.64\00:46:50.71
This is...
00:46:50.74\00:46:52.07
We want to walk
with people today
00:46:52.11\00:46:53.71
that are in the journey.
00:46:53.74\00:46:55.08
There can be
stumbling along their journey.
00:46:55.11\00:46:57.01
If we were all converted
and ready for Jesus to come
00:46:57.05\00:47:01.12
when we were baptized,
00:47:01.15\00:47:02.48
well we'd be in heaven already.
00:47:02.52\00:47:03.89
That's right. You
know, but this is...
00:47:03.92\00:47:05.95
It can get a little
dirty along the way,
00:47:05.99\00:47:08.16
but Jesus has
answers and solutions.
00:47:08.19\00:47:11.13
And that's what
sanctification is all about.
00:47:11.16\00:47:13.43
It is a growing,
rebuilding process.
00:47:13.46\00:47:16.80
It has not yet been
revealed what you will be,
00:47:16.83\00:47:19.83
but we know that
when the Lord is done
00:47:19.87\00:47:21.47
it's going to be complete.
00:47:21.50\00:47:22.84
What are you thinking, honey?
What about Queer Theology?
00:47:22.87\00:47:25.21
What is that?
00:47:25.24\00:47:26.57
So Queer Theology,
you know, I mentioned...
00:47:26.61\00:47:28.14
I alluded to it a
little bit earlier.
00:47:28.18\00:47:29.68
And there's lots...
00:47:29.71\00:47:31.05
There's even a Bible called,
00:47:31.08\00:47:32.45
The Queen James
Version of the Bible.
00:47:32.48\00:47:33.82
Queen?
00:47:33.85\00:47:35.18
The Queen James
Version of the Bible.
00:47:35.22\00:47:36.55
It's removed all the
references to homosexuality
00:47:36.58\00:47:39.29
in order to prevent
homophobia in the church.
00:47:39.32\00:47:42.86
And I'm like, "Well,
if God wrote had His Word
00:47:42.89\00:47:45.53
written for Him
under His divine pan,
00:47:45.56\00:47:47.50
I don't think that we
need to be removing any text."
00:47:47.53\00:47:50.90
And I don't see that the texts
that deal with homosexuality
00:47:50.93\00:47:56.17
to be clobber text
but to be guardrails,
00:47:56.20\00:47:59.04
to keep us from
falling off the cliff.
00:47:59.07\00:48:01.64
God wants to
keep us in His care.
00:48:01.68\00:48:04.55
I also want to say to parents
and loved ones out there today,
00:48:04.58\00:48:08.88
it's important to
emphasize the power of prayer.
00:48:08.92\00:48:11.65
I think my parents
must have gone through
00:48:11.69\00:48:13.52
a number of kneepads
00:48:13.56\00:48:14.89
over the course of 40 years,
00:48:14.92\00:48:16.46
because they
didn't clobber me with,
00:48:16.49\00:48:20.20
"You're living a
life that's wrong
00:48:20.23\00:48:21.73
and you're
going to burn for it."
00:48:21.76\00:48:23.26
But they continued to love me
00:48:23.30\00:48:25.20
while they
didn't endorse my life.
00:48:25.23\00:48:27.57
They reached out
and showed love...
00:48:27.60\00:48:29.54
They showed love to me.
00:48:29.57\00:48:30.91
They showed love
to my gay friends
00:48:30.94\00:48:33.54
that would come and
spend time in their home.
00:48:33.58\00:48:36.31
And, you know, those
prayers came and got me.
00:48:36.34\00:48:39.45
They paid off.
00:48:39.48\00:48:40.82
But today parents are praying
00:48:40.85\00:48:43.42
and they're wanting
results tomorrow morning.
00:48:43.45\00:48:45.75
And, you know, God doesn't
necessarily work like that
00:48:45.79\00:48:48.36
because He needs to
wait upon the person
00:48:48.39\00:48:51.76
that is going to be
receptive to the Holy Spirit,
00:48:51.79\00:48:55.33
letting the Holy
Spirit work in their lives
00:48:55.36\00:48:57.87
as they're ready to receive Him.
00:48:57.90\00:48:59.23
That's right.
00:48:59.27\00:49:00.60
"Wait upon the Lord
00:49:00.64\00:49:01.97
and He will
renew your strength."
00:49:02.00\00:49:03.34
Yes.
00:49:03.37\00:49:04.71
That's that
waiting that a lot of us
00:49:04.74\00:49:06.07
are fearful of doing.
00:49:06.11\00:49:07.44
I want to also bring out...
00:49:07.48\00:49:09.68
If you were at a place
where you're saying to people,
00:49:09.71\00:49:13.31
what is the next step
in this rebuild process?
00:49:13.35\00:49:17.82
I want to, once again,
00:49:17.85\00:49:19.19
talk about the
book Line By Line.
00:49:19.22\00:49:21.22
And let me just
make the statement.
00:49:21.26\00:49:22.99
As a pastor in the
North American Division,
00:49:23.02\00:49:26.49
we are in a pool
of wanting people
00:49:26.53\00:49:30.50
to know Christ.
00:49:30.53\00:49:31.87
You know, when the Bible says,
00:49:31.90\00:49:33.23
"Come to Me all you who
labor and are heavy laden
00:49:33.27\00:49:35.27
and I will give you rest."
00:49:35.30\00:49:36.91
Rest is for the
person who was a thief,
00:49:36.94\00:49:39.37
an adulterer, a
liar, a profligate,
00:49:39.41\00:49:42.41
whatever the category maybe,
00:49:42.44\00:49:43.78
struggling with drugs
or alcohol, whatever it is,
00:49:43.81\00:49:45.98
and also LGBTIQ issues.
00:49:46.01\00:49:48.58
But what has
happened in America,
00:49:48.62\00:49:50.45
and what's
happened around the world,
00:49:50.49\00:49:52.19
is because we
have been told that
00:49:52.22\00:49:54.22
as it was in the days of Lot,
00:49:54.26\00:49:56.59
which when the men showed,
00:49:56.62\00:49:58.19
tried to break down the door
to get to the guest of Abram,
00:49:58.23\00:50:02.20
they wanted the men
instead of the women.
00:50:02.23\00:50:04.43
And Romans 1 says,
"Men with men doing that,
00:50:04.47\00:50:08.00
which is unseemingly,
00:50:08.04\00:50:09.40
and women burned in
their lust one toward another."
00:50:09.44\00:50:11.77
Not Abram. Was it Abram?
00:50:11.81\00:50:15.58
I think Lot, my mistake.
00:50:15.61\00:50:17.21
Thank you, honey. Yeah.
00:50:17.25\00:50:18.58
And so when we look at
those issues in the Bible,
00:50:18.61\00:50:20.42
we see that the Lord is
not condoning any of that.
00:50:20.45\00:50:23.32
But the Bible is continually
saying, "My yoke is easy.
00:50:23.35\00:50:26.82
My burden is light.
I could rebuild you.
00:50:26.86\00:50:28.52
I could change your life."
00:50:28.56\00:50:29.92
If that weren't the
case, we would have no gospel.
00:50:29.96\00:50:32.33
The gospel is good
news, not fearful news.
00:50:32.36\00:50:35.16
How do you
speak to that as we...
00:50:35.20\00:50:36.73
Before we go to the news break?
00:50:36.77\00:50:40.30
Well, you know, I, kind of,
want to point out this is that,
00:50:40.34\00:50:44.47
you know, it's important
that we, as individuals,
00:50:44.51\00:50:50.28
put our faith and our
trust directly in the Word.
00:50:50.31\00:50:55.98
I know I grew up
00:50:56.02\00:50:58.35
really looking up
to corporate entities.
00:50:58.39\00:51:03.39
And so I know that
today that it's difficult...
00:51:03.43\00:51:06.49
You know, I think
as a denomination,
00:51:06.53\00:51:08.36
certainly we've had
some mistakes along the way,
00:51:08.40\00:51:11.37
but it becomes
extremely difficult
00:51:11.40\00:51:13.44
to apologize or
ask for forgiveness
00:51:13.47\00:51:17.51
for having made mistakes.
00:51:17.54\00:51:19.47
You know, we're...
00:51:19.51\00:51:21.44
Not everyone in every
position within our denomination
00:51:21.48\00:51:25.71
has the ability
00:51:25.75\00:51:28.98
to not be
00:51:29.02\00:51:32.89
stepping off in a direction
00:51:32.92\00:51:34.32
that may not have been
exactly what God intended.
00:51:34.36\00:51:37.13
And so I want to be
sure to bring it to a point
00:51:37.16\00:51:40.46
that we're looking to Christ
00:51:40.50\00:51:42.13
and not always to, necessarily,
00:51:42.16\00:51:44.30
the literature
that's in front of us
00:51:44.33\00:51:45.80
that makes sure that literature
agrees with God's Word.
00:51:45.83\00:51:47.77
That's right.
00:51:47.80\00:51:49.14
And we're going to
take a short break.
00:51:49.17\00:51:50.51
And on the other
side of the news break,
00:51:50.54\00:51:52.44
we're going to have
a few closing thoughts
00:51:52.47\00:51:53.81
about this
vitally important topic.
00:51:53.84\00:51:55.81
Don't go away.
00:51:55.84\00:51:58.51
If you would like to contact
00:51:58.55\00:51:59.88
or know more about
Know His Love Ministries,
00:51:59.91\00:52:02.58
you can do so in
the following ways.
00:52:02.62\00:52:04.55
You can write to
them at P.O Box 701,
00:52:04.59\00:52:08.06
Battleground, Washington.
00:52:08.09\00:52:10.19
You can also call them
00:52:10.23\00:52:11.56
at 360-936-8514.
00:52:11.59\00:52:16.56
That's 360-936-8514.
00:52:16.60\00:52:22.07
You can also visit their website
00:52:22.10\00:52:23.57
at knowhislove.org
00:52:23.61\00:52:26.51
That's knowhislove.org
00:52:26.54\00:52:29.98
You can also send them an
email at 2knowhislove@gmail.com
00:52:30.01\00:52:35.58
That's the number
00:52:35.62\00:52:36.95
2knowhislove@gmail.com
00:52:36.99\00:52:40.86