As you're well aware,
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we're living in
unprecedented times.
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Join us now for
Today special program.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, friends,
and welcome to 3ABN
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Today where we are always
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all about the
gospel of Jesus Christ
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sharing the good
news of Jesus Christ
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and His soon return.
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This is the Three
Angels Broadcasting Network.
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So we're all about
preaching the everlasting gospel
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that's found in those
three angels' messages
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of Revelation Chapter 14.
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So here today, and I
just want to welcome you,
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want to thank you for
joining us, because we know
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you could be doing
anything else at this time,
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but I want to encourage
you don't change the channel.
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Don't switch this program
off because during this hour
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we have a powerful story,
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a life-changing
conversion story.
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I'm here with a dear friend
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that I've just
gotten to know a pastor
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in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
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who's going to be telling
us all about his experience
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in the church and how he had
a true conversion experience.
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And he's also going to
be leading and guiding us
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and talking about how
the message of righteousness
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by faith transformed his
experience as it has mine.
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And I'm sure it has
many of yours as well.
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So you don't
want to go anywhere.
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But for the time being
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before we come
back and introduce
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Pastor Damon Snead,
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we're going to have a special
musical number at this time.
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And it's going
to be brought to us
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by Miss Tammy Chance.
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And the song is, "I've
Never Loved Him Better."
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Since Jesus came and found me
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And He put His arms around me
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And all my binding fetters
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Took away
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Although I've loved Him dearly
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And trusted Him sincerely
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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I've never felt Him closer
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Along the way
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And oh how sweet the feeling
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When in His presence kneeling
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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OH blessed friend supernal
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My hope and joy eternal
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Keep my soul till shadow
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Flee away
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Anoint me I would pray, Lord
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Till ends this
pilgrim's way, Lord
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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I've never felt Him closer
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Along the way
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And oh how sweet the feeling
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When in His presence kneeling
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I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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I've never loved Him better
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No, I've never loved Him better
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No, I've never loved Him better
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Than today
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Amen.
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Sister Tammy Chance, it's,
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she's a precious
soul, has a beautiful voice.
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I appreciate that song.
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And, you know what?
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I want to get right
into our program here today.
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And we have Pastor Damon Snead
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from Wheel of
Faith Ministries with us.
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He's from Conroe, Texas.
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In fact, you're the
pastor of the Conroe
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Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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How you doing,
Brother? I am doing well.
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Thank you for having me. Amen.
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And you know what, Pastor,
you have come to tell us today,
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you've come to talk to us
about the power of the gospel.
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And after just, you know,
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I didn't know you
before you came here today,
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I met you for the first
time, just a few minutes ago,
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but after reading
through, you know,
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your story that you
had put in writing for us,
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just kind of a quick summary
for us before you arrived.
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After reading through this,
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I felt like I was
almost reading my own story
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because I could
relate to many of the things
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that you know that
you've been through
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and that you have experienced.
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But before we
get right into that,
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I just feel like it's important
that we have a quick prayer
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and ask the Lord to lead
and guide our conversation
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because I know there's
someone watching right now
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who the Lord is
going to bless by this
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and hopefully lead them
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to a true, genuine
experience with Jesus.
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So let's have a quick prayer.
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Father in heaven Lord,
just want to take this time
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to say thank You
for the opportunity
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that myself and
Pastor Snead here have
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an opportunity
to talk about You,
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to discuss how
You have blessed him,
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to discuss how You
have transformed his life.
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And he's going to
spend this time now with us
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Lord to unpack
all of that in detail,
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and to give You glory.
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And that's what
we're here to do, Lord.
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So as we have this conversation,
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as we have this interview
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and we talk about the
gospel of Jesus Christ,
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may this message go out
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to all of those who are watching
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and may it bless someone
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and lead them
closer to Jesus Christ.
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That's our prayer.
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And we ask it in confidence
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and in the name of Jesus Christ.
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Amen.
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All right, Pastor Snead.
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Who is Pastor
Snead? Where are you from?
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I know we said
Conroe, you're from, you know,
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you pastor Conrad or
Conroe, excuse me, pause,
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Conroe
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Were you born there?
Were you raised there?
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Have you always been in
Texas? Where are you from?
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Well, I was born in
Houston, Texas, right?
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And then raised
just outside of that
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in a place
called Cleveland, Texas.
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And I spent my
whole teenage years
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into my early 20s there.
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And then I
moved off to Louisiana
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where my dad's people are
from, Southwest Louisiana.
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I spent 15 years there,
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then ended up back home in Texas
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and moved right
back to the same place
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where I was from.
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And ended up eventually getting
into ministry and pastoring
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and went around a little
bit, left the Texas Conference,
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went to the Oklahoma Conference
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and then from there out
West to California up at Weimar,
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and then now I'm
back home in Texas,
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been here for
about two years now.
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Praise the Lord,
a true Southern boy.
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Yes. Just like myself.
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I was born and raised
in Northeast Arkansas.
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And I can relate to all of that.
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So praise the Lord.
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Well, you know what?
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I want to get
right into your story
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because I asked you earlier,
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were you raised in
the Adventist Church?
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You said you were
but, you know, you weren't,
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you didn't really know,
your family didn't really know
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about this
beautiful gospel message
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or at least the Adventist faith
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until, you know, maybe you were
about nine or ten years old.
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Tell us about how your
family played a major role
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in your early stages
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and how they
came into this faith?
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So it's really interesting
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when I look at a lot of families
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from this part of the world,
we all have similar stories.
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Right. And that's the 70s. Okay.
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So the late 60s, early 70s,
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the Barron Brothers had
been coming into Houston, Texas.
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And then Halverson came in.
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And so when Ron Halverson
came into Houston, Texas,
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that's when my family all
began to convert, uncles, aunts,
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my mother and my father,
there was this excitement.
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There's a video
tape or not a video tape,
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it's actually a cassette
tape from back in them days.
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And I can hear my,
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myself and my
little brother on the tape.
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And you can hear
in the background
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Halverson and he's
preaching about these animals.
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Actually, when I was a kid,
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I was waiting for
these lions and leopards
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to appear on the stage.
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Right.
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But looking back now, I realize
he was preaching Daniel 7.
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Sure, sure.
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So that was what
my family came into.
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They were excited
about the signs of the times,
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the end of the world,
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the enforcement of
this false system of worship
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and the second coming of Christ.
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And so my whole family came in
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that whole group of us,
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you know, 15 or 20 of
us came into the faith
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at about that
time in the mid-70s.
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And so I woke up one day
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and all of a
sudden I was Adventist.
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I was about nine
or ten years old.
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That's awesome.
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So, you know, you
mentioned Halverson
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and the, I'm not as familiar
with the Barron Brothers,
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but certainly
with Ron Halvorson,
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these are
powerful preachers, right?
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These are evangelists
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who do this
full-time for a living.
00:09:24.73\00:09:26.39
So I can relate
to the excitement
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because that's
basically how my family
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came into the faith
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is we heard this powerful
evangelistic style message,
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you know, and it has its place
and it's a wonderful thing.
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And it certainly hooked us.
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And that seems like
what happened to your family
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as you were 19 years old?
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Sure. Yeah.
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We woke up one morning,
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there's no
Saturday morning cartoons.
00:09:44.31\00:09:45.65
I was sitting on the couch
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and that began about a
five or six year journey
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is about as
though I can remember
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from there about 10
till about 15 or 16.
00:09:52.39\00:09:54.29
All right.
00:09:54.32\00:09:55.66
So you and your family
pretty involved in the faith
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and then what happened?
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What's the next phase?
00:10:00.86\00:10:02.20
What's the next?
What happened next?
00:10:02.23\00:10:03.57
Well, typical story.
00:10:03.60\00:10:04.93
Okay.
00:10:04.97\00:10:06.30
You're awaiting all these
great events to take place
00:10:06.33\00:10:09.07
and looking back now,
00:10:09.10\00:10:10.44
I can see my family was excited,
00:10:10.47\00:10:11.81
but then life begins to happen.
00:10:11.84\00:10:13.54
You know, the end
of time doesn't happen.
00:10:13.58\00:10:16.61
Right.
00:10:16.64\00:10:17.98
You know, the
enforcement of worship
00:10:18.01\00:10:19.35
doesn't happen tomorrow
and life begins to happen
00:10:19.38\00:10:21.22
and slowly but surely,
00:10:21.25\00:10:23.65
my family, like so many
others in that time period
00:10:23.69\00:10:26.15
begin to drift away
00:10:26.19\00:10:27.52
and then three or
four years into it,
00:10:27.56\00:10:30.19
they're out of the faith.
00:10:30.23\00:10:31.56
They're just living life.
00:10:31.59\00:10:32.93
They're not, they
don't consider themselves
00:10:32.96\00:10:34.30
non Adventist,
00:10:34.33\00:10:35.66
but they're just
not practicing no more.
00:10:35.70\00:10:38.40
Got you.
00:10:38.43\00:10:39.77
So you're, you know,
you said four or five years,
00:10:39.80\00:10:42.64
so this is between the ages of,
00:10:42.67\00:10:44.47
I'm guessing what 10
and maybe 15, 16 years old.
00:10:44.51\00:10:48.44
So what was that like for you?
00:10:48.48\00:10:50.41
Because we, I know that adults,
00:10:50.45\00:10:52.18
you know,
they're very influential,
00:10:52.21\00:10:53.55
my parents, my
family, I'm sure your family,
00:10:53.58\00:10:56.45
you were just
kind of going along
00:10:56.48\00:10:58.09
with the ride at an early age,
00:10:58.12\00:10:59.52
but what was it like for you
00:10:59.55\00:11:01.19
between those years of
10 and 14, 15, 16 years old,
00:11:01.22\00:11:04.89
going through all of the motions
00:11:04.93\00:11:06.43
and in this particular instance,
00:11:06.46\00:11:08.80
you know,
especially with your family,
00:11:08.83\00:11:10.17
leaving the faith,
00:11:10.20\00:11:11.93
you know, what
was it like for you?
00:11:11.97\00:11:13.97
You know, of course,
00:11:14.00\00:11:15.87
the only person that
didn't leave really the faith
00:11:15.90\00:11:18.84
in that time was
one of my uncles,
00:11:18.87\00:11:20.21
but my grandfather,
so he kept me really,
00:11:20.24\00:11:24.28
he was the one
I kept looking to.
00:11:24.31\00:11:26.18
And even at a young age,
00:11:26.21\00:11:27.55
I remember praying for
my mother and my father,
00:11:27.58\00:11:30.39
my cousins, uncles, aunts.
00:11:30.42\00:11:33.05
So there was
always that struggle,
00:11:33.09\00:11:34.52
always felt like
they were going to be lost
00:11:34.56\00:11:37.89
and I always had that in me
and that fear and that worry.
00:11:37.93\00:11:41.86
And so I kept, I
continued to go to church.
00:11:41.90\00:11:43.97
We had some neighbors
that were Adventists, the Leos,
00:11:44.00\00:11:46.37
Mr. and Miss Leo, they picked
us up in an orange AMC Gremlin,
00:11:46.40\00:11:50.64
every Sabbath morning.
00:11:50.67\00:11:52.01
So they kept me
connected in that way.
00:11:52.04\00:11:54.81
And I just remember
always having this feeling
00:11:54.84\00:11:57.61
of worry and fear,
00:11:57.65\00:11:59.61
which would later
would be why I ended up
00:11:59.65\00:12:01.38
getting into ministry
more involved in my life.
00:12:01.42\00:12:03.89
But you have that, you
realize that something's coming.
00:12:03.92\00:12:06.55
I believe that even as a
kid, but to see my family begin
00:12:06.59\00:12:09.32
to just leave and evaporate
was very disheartening to me.
00:12:09.36\00:12:12.93
Wow.
00:12:12.96\00:12:14.30
That's amazing.
00:12:14.33\00:12:15.66
So your family kind of
disintegrates and leaves,
00:12:15.70\00:12:18.87
maybe it's you and your grandpa,
00:12:18.90\00:12:21.74
what happens next now for you?
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.20
Did you leave, or did
you stay in the faith?
00:12:23.24\00:12:24.91
What would
transpire after those years?
00:12:24.94\00:12:26.78
Well, high school, of
course, in high school football
00:12:26.81\00:12:29.51
and sports and
Friday nights and Saturdays.
00:12:29.54\00:12:31.88
So for a few years there in
my own life, I just kind of,
00:12:31.91\00:12:35.32
I always had this knowledge,
hey, you can't stay here long,
00:12:35.35\00:12:39.15
but you know
how high school was.
00:12:39.19\00:12:40.52
Right.
00:12:40.56\00:12:41.89
And so, I got into
the high school world
00:12:41.92\00:12:43.73
and left for a little bit,
00:12:43.76\00:12:46.49
even went to a
Baptist church for time or two
00:12:46.53\00:12:48.33
with some other friends
00:12:48.36\00:12:49.70
and explored some other options.
00:12:49.73\00:12:52.07
And at that time,
00:12:52.10\00:12:53.44
the Cleveland
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:12:53.47\00:12:54.80
was building
their brand new church
00:12:54.84\00:12:56.17
down there on 321.
00:12:56.20\00:12:57.54
And I had been
passing this building,
00:12:57.57\00:12:59.44
this
construction going on and on.
00:12:59.47\00:13:01.58
And every time I go by there,
00:13:01.61\00:13:02.94
something would
just nod at me to go.
00:13:02.98\00:13:06.35
So I waited for this
one particular afternoon.
00:13:06.38\00:13:09.12
I drove by there and
just something compelled me
00:13:09.15\00:13:11.39
to pull over and just
go look at the building.
00:13:11.42\00:13:13.66
So I pulled in there
and no one was there.
00:13:13.69\00:13:15.62
So I got out of my car
00:13:15.66\00:13:17.13
and I was looking at
this new Adventist building
00:13:17.16\00:13:19.23
and out from the back
come Mr. and Miss Leo.
00:13:19.26\00:13:21.46
Okay.
00:13:21.50\00:13:22.83
And she said, "You
need to come visit us."
00:13:22.86\00:13:24.93
And so I remember
00:13:24.97\00:13:26.67
I'd probably been out of
church for a couple of years.
00:13:26.70\00:13:28.30
And I remember
that next Saturday,
00:13:28.34\00:13:30.24
the next Sabbath morning,
00:13:30.27\00:13:31.81
I was getting
dressed up and my mama said,
00:13:31.84\00:13:33.17
"Where are you going?"
00:13:33.21\00:13:34.54
I said. "To church."
00:13:34.58\00:13:35.91
How old were you at
this time? I was 18 now.
00:13:35.94\00:13:37.28
Eighteen, okay.
Eighteen at the time.
00:13:37.31\00:13:38.65
I was just like, "I'm
going to go to church."
00:13:38.68\00:13:40.02
She's like, "To church?"
00:13:40.05\00:13:41.38
I said, "Yeah, they
built a new church down there."
00:13:41.42\00:13:43.08
And I'll never forget this.
00:13:43.12\00:13:44.52
When I walked in the
doors of that church,
00:13:44.55\00:13:46.42
that Sabbath morning,
man, it was like home,
00:13:46.45\00:13:50.59
the Holy Spirit
moved on my heart.
00:13:50.63\00:13:52.99
And that was it.
00:13:53.03\00:13:54.36
I knew that is where I belonged.
00:13:54.40\00:13:56.77
I didn't ever
want to leave again.
00:13:56.80\00:13:58.27
So that's how I got back
into the really into the faith.
00:13:58.30\00:14:00.70
Okay.
00:14:00.74\00:14:02.07
So we're
leading up in your story
00:14:02.10\00:14:04.37
to something that
happened at the age of 28,
00:14:04.41\00:14:07.11
but how, what
was your experience
00:14:07.14\00:14:10.08
for the next 10 years?
00:14:10.11\00:14:11.91
Ten years.
00:14:11.95\00:14:13.28
So you're in the church.
00:14:13.31\00:14:14.78
You've come back home.
00:14:14.82\00:14:16.35
Now what?
00:14:16.38\00:14:17.72
Well, when I turned
about 20, I moved to Louisiana.
00:14:17.75\00:14:21.56
Okay.
00:14:21.59\00:14:22.92
And so I went to a little
church called the DeRidder
00:14:22.96\00:14:24.96
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:14:24.99\00:14:26.66
And there I got
involved with about,
00:14:26.70\00:14:29.26
probably about
the age of 21 or 22.
00:14:29.30\00:14:30.83
I became a Bible worker,
literature evangelist really,
00:14:30.87\00:14:34.40
but wasn't making any money.
00:14:34.44\00:14:36.77
But it was my desire.
00:14:36.81\00:14:38.14
I thought that to
be a good Adventist
00:14:38.17\00:14:39.51
I had to spread the
message of keeping the law,
00:14:39.54\00:14:43.55
the Sabbath, you know,
00:14:43.58\00:14:44.91
the end-time events that we
talk about with false worship
00:14:44.95\00:14:47.75
and who the beast is
and what the mark is.
00:14:47.78\00:14:49.75
And the second coming
00:14:49.78\00:14:51.12
and the truth
about the millennium.
00:14:51.15\00:14:52.49
And there's a, it's
like a, I have a running,
00:14:52.52\00:14:55.26
it's not a
joke, but it's a thing
00:14:55.29\00:14:56.62
that I say Babylon,
Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.
00:14:56.66\00:14:58.76
In other words, every
Adventist knows what that means.
00:14:58.79\00:15:01.26
That's right
00:15:01.30\00:15:02.63
And so that was my
burden to spread the truth
00:15:02.66\00:15:04.60
about Babylon, Medo-Persia,
Greece, Rome, the little horn,
00:15:04.63\00:15:07.07
the truth of the
law, the Sabbath.
00:15:07.10\00:15:08.44
Right.
00:15:08.47\00:15:09.80
And that's all,
that's what I emerged myself
00:15:09.84\00:15:11.31
into for those 10 years
of just knocking on doors.
00:15:11.34\00:15:14.64
I literally knocked on
every door in DeRidder,
00:15:14.68\00:15:16.64
Louisiana in a space
of four or five years.
00:15:16.68\00:15:19.11
And I was just
going to do it myself.
00:15:19.15\00:15:21.18
And then I had a little
book called Steps to Christ,
00:15:21.22\00:15:23.22
I would hand out to people.
00:15:23.25\00:15:24.59
I don't think I
ever really read it.
00:15:24.62\00:15:25.95
It was just the
handbook, you know,
00:15:25.99\00:15:27.32
just all life about Jesus.
00:15:27.36\00:15:28.69
And so that was
during that 10 year period,
00:15:28.72\00:15:31.76
that is what I was so
focused on was prophecy
00:15:31.79\00:15:34.56
and that Sabbath.
00:15:34.60\00:15:35.93
Right.
00:15:35.96\00:15:37.30
So it seemed like and I,
00:15:37.33\00:15:38.67
and I've heard this
language use before,
00:15:38.70\00:15:40.04
and I know you have as well.
00:15:40.07\00:15:41.40
It seems like you
were, as I was at one time,
00:15:41.44\00:15:43.17
we tend to sometimes
get so focused on the rules.
00:15:43.20\00:15:46.94
We leave the ruler out
of the equation, right?
00:15:46.98\00:15:50.41
And I can relate to that
because my very first year,
00:15:50.45\00:15:53.58
year and a half, two years
in the faith, you know, again,
00:15:53.62\00:15:56.85
I knew all of the
fundamentals and, you know,
00:15:56.89\00:15:59.99
just for those who
are watching at home,
00:16:00.02\00:16:01.52
these certainly
have an important place
00:16:01.56\00:16:03.22
in our overall
experience, you know,
00:16:03.26\00:16:05.26
the Sabbath, the law,
00:16:05.29\00:16:06.63
and all those things
that you just mentioned,
00:16:06.66\00:16:08.00
they are important and
they have their proper place,
00:16:08.03\00:16:10.27
but the Lord is
going to lead you.
00:16:10.30\00:16:13.00
Something's going to
happen when you turn 28.
00:16:13.03\00:16:15.80
And tell us a little bit
about that, what happens? Okay.
00:16:15.84\00:16:19.67
And there may be
something you want to tell us
00:16:19.71\00:16:21.18
about leading up to that,
00:16:21.21\00:16:22.54
but something transpires
00:16:22.58\00:16:23.91
or happens in your
life at the age of 28,
00:16:23.95\00:16:25.48
that kind of begins to
set you on a different course?
00:16:25.51\00:16:28.18
So... Well, 26, 27, 28,
00:16:28.22\00:16:32.35
I'm getting more
involved and, you know,
00:16:32.39\00:16:36.42
I call it the
list, the Adventist list,
00:16:36.46\00:16:39.03
Sabbath school
director, Pathfinder director,
00:16:39.06\00:16:40.86
board meeting school.
00:16:40.90\00:16:42.23
But I mean just,
you're so involved,
00:16:42.26\00:16:44.27
doing so much into me, that was,
00:16:44.30\00:16:46.74
that's what you need to do.
00:16:46.77\00:16:48.44
The more you get involved,
00:16:48.47\00:16:50.04
the better an Adventist
you are, the more you're.
00:16:50.07\00:16:52.11
So by the time I'm
at the age of 27 or 28,
00:16:52.14\00:16:56.98
my personal life
is in total shambles.
00:16:57.01\00:16:59.31
Right.
00:16:59.35\00:17:00.68
I'm a great church person.
00:17:00.72\00:17:02.05
I was like, I think by
that time I was a head deacon,
00:17:02.08\00:17:04.12
was Bible worker.
00:17:04.15\00:17:05.49
All right.
00:17:05.52\00:17:06.86
You know, I was just involved
in the fabric of the church,
00:17:06.89\00:17:10.03
you know, then we had
about a hundred members,
00:17:10.06\00:17:11.99
but my personal
life was in total chaos.
00:17:12.03\00:17:14.96
I mean, I was I come, my mother
comes from an Italian family.
00:17:15.00\00:17:19.30
So we had this very,
00:17:19.33\00:17:21.50
to me, it was just
vociferous way of speaking,
00:17:21.54\00:17:23.94
but it was foul
tempered is what you call,
00:17:23.97\00:17:25.74
a lot of hatred.
00:17:25.77\00:17:27.11
I was very physically
abusive, to some extent,
00:17:27.14\00:17:30.18
mostly verbally abusive,
just an absentee father,
00:17:30.21\00:17:35.25
a terrible husband in my
life at that age, you know?
00:17:35.28\00:17:38.65
And it's weird because
you wouldn't have known
00:17:38.69\00:17:40.36
it from my church life,
00:17:40.39\00:17:41.72
but my personal life
was a total shipwrecked.
00:17:41.76\00:17:44.43
You know what, the life
that I lived on the job site,
00:17:44.46\00:17:47.80
you know, in the construction
world was much different
00:17:47.83\00:17:51.37
than the life I lived at church,
00:17:51.40\00:17:53.03
but I felt safe
in that church life
00:17:53.07\00:17:56.20
because I had all these truths
and doctrines and beliefs,
00:17:56.24\00:17:59.37
but these two worlds at the
age of 28 are about to collide.
00:17:59.41\00:18:02.91
And I'm about to see
that there is something
00:18:02.94\00:18:06.05
I tremendously missed.
00:18:06.08\00:18:07.62
You know, it's
amazing as you're talking,
00:18:07.65\00:18:09.18
because I had somebody
that say this to me recently,
00:18:09.22\00:18:11.62
and it really caught,
00:18:11.65\00:18:13.96
It's got some much of, some,
somewhat of a comic feel to it,
00:18:13.99\00:18:18.56
but at the same time it's truth.
00:18:18.59\00:18:20.80
And that's why toward the
beginning of this pandemic,
00:18:20.83\00:18:23.70
we're four or five
months into this pandemic.
00:18:23.73\00:18:25.60
And somebody sent
me this little message
00:18:25.63\00:18:27.04
and it was just kind of
a funny little gag message,
00:18:27.07\00:18:29.70
but it said, well, I
don't know why everyone has,
00:18:29.74\00:18:32.91
is fighting and
complaining about wearing masks
00:18:32.94\00:18:35.71
when most of them have been
wearing one most of their life.
00:18:35.74\00:18:38.61
Oh, yeah.
00:18:38.65\00:18:39.98
As you were sitting
there talking about that,
00:18:40.02\00:18:41.42
that's what came into
my mind is that, you know,
00:18:41.45\00:18:43.42
a lot of people,
they come into the church,
00:18:43.45\00:18:45.29
they put their mask on
00:18:45.32\00:18:46.65
because that's
kind of what's expected,
00:18:46.69\00:18:48.02
you be the church
person you're supposed to be.
00:18:48.06\00:18:49.82
You go through the motions,
you say the right things,
00:18:49.86\00:18:52.23
you do the right things
00:18:52.26\00:18:53.60
because you have to
appear to be that good Christian
00:18:53.63\00:18:55.46
that everybody
expects you to be,
00:18:55.50\00:18:56.97
but yet what's
happening outside the church,
00:18:57.00\00:18:59.27
what's happening at home.
00:18:59.30\00:19:00.64
And that seems to be
what you were experiencing,
00:19:00.67\00:19:02.40
what you were just describing?
00:19:02.44\00:19:03.77
Sure.
00:19:03.81\00:19:05.14
I had, my wife
and I at the time.
00:19:05.17\00:19:06.51
My first wife, we
ended up separated
00:19:06.54\00:19:10.15
going through a
divorce just this mayhem
00:19:10.18\00:19:14.15
was happening in my life.
00:19:14.18\00:19:15.65
And then a man came
down from California
00:19:15.68\00:19:19.85
and it was the
first time I ever heard
00:19:19.89\00:19:22.29
of righteousness by faith.
00:19:22.32\00:19:24.39
Okay.
00:19:24.43\00:19:25.76
The very first little
simple ideas I had of it.
00:19:25.79\00:19:29.33
And he began
preaching about our truths,
00:19:29.36\00:19:31.97
all having to cluster
00:19:32.00\00:19:34.07
in this idea of
Christ and His righteousness.
00:19:34.10\00:19:35.87
And I couldn't comprehend that.
00:19:35.90\00:19:37.61
How do you do that
with state of the dead?
00:19:37.64\00:19:39.31
Or how do you do that
with the come out of Babylon?
00:19:39.34\00:19:42.34
I couldn't fathom.
00:19:42.38\00:19:43.71
I couldn't even think of
how to even write a sermon on
00:19:43.75\00:19:46.78
righteousness by faith,
but he got my wheels turning.
00:19:46.82\00:19:49.48
He was there for a week
and this brother really got
00:19:49.52\00:19:54.49
my heart turned towards
00:19:54.52\00:19:56.76
the conversion that
righteousness by faith brings.
00:19:56.79\00:19:59.23
I began to look at
myself and see my sin.
00:19:59.26\00:20:02.03
I began to understand
repentance, conviction,
00:20:02.06\00:20:04.70
these deeper things.
00:20:04.73\00:20:06.10
And that was the
watershed moment.
00:20:06.13\00:20:08.20
That first
watershed moment in my life
00:20:08.24\00:20:10.37
came when I really
started to understand
00:20:10.41\00:20:12.14
what is this everlasting gospel,
00:20:12.17\00:20:14.84
the impact that
it has on my life
00:20:14.88\00:20:16.58
and things begin to
change at that point.
00:20:16.61\00:20:18.88
So was it personal conversations
00:20:18.91\00:20:21.38
he was having with you?
00:20:21.42\00:20:22.75
Was it literature, he
was sharing, you know,
00:20:22.78\00:20:25.05
maybe tapes or, you know,
00:20:25.09\00:20:26.55
what was it that he
did that just kind of
00:20:26.59\00:20:29.26
sparked that
understanding in your mind?
00:20:29.29\00:20:31.49
It was actually a seven part
series on the Song of Solomon,
00:20:31.53\00:20:34.90
actually.
00:20:34.93\00:20:36.56
But through that, he was
showing how righteousness
00:20:36.60\00:20:38.90
by faith is everywhere,
even in the Song of Solomon.
00:20:38.93\00:20:41.54
And I just really began to
see the love that my Savior
00:20:41.57\00:20:43.84
has for His bride, the
unworthiness of His bride,
00:20:43.87\00:20:46.94
the condition of His bride.
00:20:46.98\00:20:48.31
I was like, whoa.
00:20:48.34\00:20:49.68
And I started seeing
my life is shipwrecked
00:20:49.71\00:20:53.21
because I didn't know this.
00:20:53.25\00:20:54.88
No, I'm not blaming the
pastors or the denomination.
00:20:54.92\00:20:58.09
I'm saying that I was
so myopically focused on
00:20:58.12\00:21:02.26
which are, like you
said, doctrines and prophecy,
00:21:02.29\00:21:04.76
which they are very
fundamental to what we believe.
00:21:04.79\00:21:06.73
Sure.
00:21:06.76\00:21:08.10
But to the
exclusion of this other
00:21:08.13\00:21:09.66
really is what
tore my life to pieces.
00:21:09.70\00:21:12.30
You know, and so he,
so this guy comes down
00:21:12.33\00:21:14.67
and I really began to
look in a direction out
00:21:14.70\00:21:18.77
to bring all of my doctrines
and prophecies through.
00:21:18.81\00:21:21.18
Okay.
00:21:21.21\00:21:22.54
So now you've had this big kind
of light bulb experience now.
00:21:22.58\00:21:26.41
There's something
else that you're missing,
00:21:26.45\00:21:28.75
you're starting to
click in your mind.
00:21:28.78\00:21:31.25
Now, where does
this go in your ministry?
00:21:31.29\00:21:33.15
Because you were a
Bible worker before.
00:21:33.19\00:21:34.86
And was this around the
age of 28 that this happened?
00:21:34.89\00:21:37.63
Twenty seven or twenty
eight is when it happened.
00:21:37.66\00:21:39.76
And that started a
time period in my life
00:21:39.79\00:21:43.83
where I started
thinking, you know,
00:21:43.87\00:21:45.20
I don't want to be
an electrician forever.
00:21:45.23\00:21:46.57
I love electricians.
00:21:46.60\00:21:48.40
But I was an
electrician. Me too.
00:21:48.44\00:21:51.27
I was really, you know,
00:21:51.31\00:21:53.17
at that time I was
happy being a lay worker,
00:21:53.21\00:21:55.64
driving, you
know, in construction,
00:21:55.68\00:21:57.05
you go from state to state.
00:21:57.08\00:21:58.65
I followed the circuit,
00:21:58.68\00:22:00.02
the construction
circuit at that time
00:22:00.05\00:22:01.38
when the oil
industry was booming
00:22:01.42\00:22:02.98
and I was just
going to wherever I went,
00:22:03.02\00:22:04.95
I did Bible work
and held classes,
00:22:04.99\00:22:07.12
but now I was
thinking maybe more formerly,
00:22:07.16\00:22:09.02
I want to actually be a pastor.
00:22:09.06\00:22:12.03
So I started
thinking about how to,
00:22:12.06\00:22:15.03
how does that work?
00:22:15.06\00:22:16.40
What's the process?
00:22:16.43\00:22:17.77
And so, it wasn't until I was 32
00:22:17.80\00:22:20.00
that I started
going to Southwestern,
00:22:20.04\00:22:22.10
but from 28 to
32, I went through,
00:22:22.14\00:22:23.77
went ahead and the personal
life completely caved in.
00:22:23.81\00:22:26.61
The consequences of
those years, you know,
00:22:26.64\00:22:29.48
so I'm repenting and
this is what I tell people.
00:22:29.51\00:22:31.51
Yes, God will forgive
you, but there's consequences.
00:22:31.55\00:22:34.45
And those early
years, all in the church
00:22:34.48\00:22:37.52
ignoring the personal life,
00:22:37.55\00:22:39.29
just focusing on the doctrinal
things it gave to me divorce,
00:22:39.32\00:22:44.69
estrangement from children.
00:22:44.73\00:22:46.16
I ended up moving
back home to Texas,
00:22:46.19\00:22:48.33
you know, with nothing,
00:22:48.36\00:22:49.70
just nothing but my
suburban and the clothes
00:22:49.73\00:22:52.07
on my back and my
two eldest children.
00:22:52.10\00:22:54.30
And we started, I was
living with my mother,
00:22:54.34\00:22:55.80
started all over
again, but I was in school.
00:22:55.84\00:22:58.34
I started, I
enrolled at Southwestern.
00:22:58.37\00:23:02.54
To make a long story
short, I become, I ended up
00:23:02.58\00:23:05.71
getting about two years into my
degree in the Texas Conference,
00:23:05.75\00:23:08.98
Elder Holly, God bless his soul,
00:23:09.02\00:23:11.45
and Elder Steve
Gifford started working with me
00:23:11.49\00:23:14.69
as a bible vocational pastor.
00:23:14.72\00:23:16.56
And they put me
in this little bitty,
00:23:16.59\00:23:17.93
small area out in
Huntsville, Texas,
00:23:17.96\00:23:20.36
and that's where my
personal ministry began.
00:23:20.40\00:23:22.40
Okay.
00:23:22.43\00:23:23.77
So now, your new adventure,
your new ministry has begun.
00:23:23.80\00:23:28.94
So now what happens now
with this new experience,
00:23:28.97\00:23:31.54
this new knowledge, a
pastor and you're a pastor now,
00:23:31.57\00:23:36.31
now what happens?
00:23:36.34\00:23:37.68
Well, you would think that I
would have learned my lesson.
00:23:37.71\00:23:40.15
I said, okay, I'm going
to preaching this gospel
00:23:40.18\00:23:41.95
that converted me,
but I don't, I'm young.
00:23:41.98\00:23:44.72
And I default
back to my previous.
00:23:44.75\00:23:47.89
I thought that what the
church needs is just some
00:23:47.92\00:23:49.99
really strong
preaching on getting out there
00:23:50.03\00:23:52.16
and doing our work.
00:23:52.19\00:23:53.53
So for the first six or
seven years of my ministry,
00:23:53.56\00:23:56.20
five years there in Texas,
and then I moved to Oklahoma,
00:23:56.23\00:23:59.50
man, I was just
preaching up a storm
00:23:59.53\00:24:01.54
on what it means to do our work
00:24:01.57\00:24:03.81
and our faithfulness to it,
00:24:03.84\00:24:05.67
and leading out in
evangelistic series
00:24:05.71\00:24:07.88
and doing Bible
studies and starting,
00:24:07.91\00:24:09.84
discover Bible
schools, anything that,
00:24:09.88\00:24:12.51
that would get
our people up and out
00:24:12.55\00:24:14.08
and working was my focus.
00:24:14.12\00:24:15.78
And then I preached, you
know, like a lot of pastors
00:24:15.82\00:24:17.69
do eclectically
through the scriptures,
00:24:17.72\00:24:19.35
just grabbing a new topic.
00:24:19.39\00:24:20.92
There's nothing cohesive,
00:24:20.96\00:24:22.29
nothing
systematic about the gospel.
00:24:22.32\00:24:24.49
So God allowed
me this time period
00:24:24.53\00:24:27.76
where I tried
literally everything.
00:24:27.80\00:24:30.67
So this was the time period
when Bill McClendon was doing
00:24:30.70\00:24:32.97
like massive work
in Oklahoma and Tulsa,
00:24:33.00\00:24:36.00
the church was
growing out there.
00:24:36.04\00:24:37.74
And so we, I went down there
00:24:37.77\00:24:39.71
and learned all these
new skills and tactics
00:24:39.74\00:24:41.84
and, you know, just always
doing something like that,
00:24:41.88\00:24:45.61
looking for the
newest cutting edge
00:24:45.65\00:24:47.62
thing that would
cause my church to grow.
00:24:47.65\00:24:50.55
And I would go out and do it
and come back and implement it.
00:24:50.59\00:24:52.72
And it would be, you know,
00:24:52.75\00:24:54.56
it'll be some minor
little things that we,
00:24:54.59\00:24:57.19
but it was just,
everything was a total failure.
00:24:57.23\00:25:01.40
Okay.
00:25:01.43\00:25:02.86
So, but at some point
through all of this failure,
00:25:02.90\00:25:07.47
you've got to have
another light bulb moment
00:25:07.50\00:25:09.07
at some point that says,
00:25:09.10\00:25:10.44
okay, this isn't working,
00:25:10.47\00:25:12.07
evidently all
that I've been doing,
00:25:12.11\00:25:13.64
I'm not really seeing
any fruit from my labors,
00:25:13.68\00:25:16.95
you know, in a larger sense.
00:25:16.98\00:25:18.48
So now what
step, what happens now?
00:25:18.51\00:25:20.92
What step next do you take
00:25:20.95\00:25:22.78
that kind of sets
you on the right course
00:25:22.82\00:25:24.75
to where you are today?
00:25:24.79\00:25:26.12
Ketchum, Oklahoma.
00:25:26.15\00:25:27.49
Okay.
00:25:27.52\00:25:28.86
I take a call to
Ketchum, Oklahoma.
00:25:28.89\00:25:30.33
And I think I'm going
to be the next best thing
00:25:30.36\00:25:31.96
that they've ever had.
00:25:31.99\00:25:33.33
Right. You know,
I'm a great preacher.
00:25:33.36\00:25:34.73
I could do that.
00:25:34.76\00:25:36.10
I can, you know, so I get there
00:25:36.13\00:25:37.80
and I'm going to take this place
00:25:37.83\00:25:39.40
and I'm going to take everything
00:25:39.43\00:25:40.94
that I've learned at this time.
00:25:40.97\00:25:42.30
My wife had come
through, Mary Snead.
00:25:42.34\00:25:43.67
She had come
through AFCO Amazing Facts.
00:25:43.71\00:25:47.21
So she was now, she was
a Bible worker, we trained.
00:25:47.24\00:25:49.94
So we were going to
put all this together
00:25:49.98\00:25:51.61
and about a year into it,
00:25:51.65\00:25:53.65
I sat at this board
meeting and our treasurer
00:25:53.68\00:25:57.52
said to the board,
00:25:57.55\00:25:59.45
our tithe is worse
than it's ever been before.
00:25:59.49\00:26:02.99
Our giving is at its lowest,
00:26:03.02\00:26:04.69
the people are
disgruntled there.
00:26:04.73\00:26:07.03
We've got members
moving to another church.
00:26:07.06\00:26:09.13
Our church is in the
worst shape that it's ever been.
00:26:09.16\00:26:11.93
And I remember feeling
the board looking at me
00:26:11.97\00:26:15.07
and I'm thinking, God,
00:26:15.10\00:26:17.27
I am in total failure again.
00:26:17.31\00:26:20.54
And I remember when
that board meeting was over,
00:26:20.58\00:26:22.54
I sat there in
that church sanctuary
00:26:22.58\00:26:24.38
and I told God,
I said, I am done.
00:26:24.41\00:26:26.72
I've been doing this.
00:26:26.75\00:26:28.12
I mean, I've been going
through this for, you know,
00:26:28.15\00:26:30.09
at that time probably 12 years
in the ministry I'm finished.
00:26:30.12\00:26:33.76
I just want to go back to being
an electrician, go back home.
00:26:33.79\00:26:36.19
Because at this
point they're all pointing.
00:26:36.22\00:26:37.86
I mean, it was almost as if
00:26:37.89\00:26:40.60
the weight of
it's on you, right?
00:26:40.63\00:26:42.26
You're our
pastor, you're leading us.
00:26:42.30\00:26:43.73
Rightly so. Got
to be your fault.
00:26:43.77\00:26:45.10
We're here we're in
this low spot because of you.
00:26:45.13\00:26:46.47
Right.
00:26:46.50\00:26:47.84
And this is what I was upset
with all the pastors before me,
00:26:47.87\00:26:50.27
when I was younger, why
did my family leave the church?
00:26:50.31\00:26:53.04
You know, why are my
kids not in the church?
00:26:53.07\00:26:54.48
Why my uncle and
aunt leave the church?
00:26:54.51\00:26:55.88
Well, I'm a living example
of why people leave the church.
00:26:55.91\00:27:00.12
Because I didn't have
00:27:00.15\00:27:01.55
that which
everything has got to be about?
00:27:01.58\00:27:05.02
And so I sat there
and I wept and wept.
00:27:05.05\00:27:07.39
And the next
day my brother said,
00:27:07.42\00:27:08.92
"Hey man, I
found these old tapes.
00:27:08.96\00:27:11.03
I want you to listen to them."
00:27:11.06\00:27:12.86
And I drove out
there that weekend
00:27:12.89\00:27:15.56
and picked up this
series of old cassette tapes.
00:27:15.60\00:27:18.07
And then this guy
had been doing new stuff
00:27:18.10\00:27:20.84
and it was on
righteousness by faith.
00:27:20.87\00:27:23.47
What I had
heard 10 years before.
00:27:23.51\00:27:26.68
And I listened
to this whole series
00:27:26.71\00:27:28.31
on righteousness by faith.
00:27:28.34\00:27:29.98
And I said,
"Oh, man, this is it.
00:27:30.01\00:27:33.58
I am missing the gospel.
00:27:33.62\00:27:35.28
I am not presenting
the third angel's message
00:27:35.32\00:27:38.35
with it right in its verity
is the righteousness of Christ.
00:27:38.39\00:27:42.59
That's right.
00:27:42.62\00:27:43.96
What the sinner needs to
know is that A they're sinful
00:27:43.99\00:27:46.06
and B that
there's a righteousness
00:27:46.09\00:27:47.60
for them in the
heavenly sanctuary
00:27:47.63\00:27:49.46
there to cover them.
00:27:49.50\00:27:50.83
And when you receive that,
the spirit then ask permission
00:27:50.87\00:27:53.64
to show up, right?
00:27:53.67\00:27:55.20
I love what Ellen
White says this, she says,
00:27:55.24\00:27:57.14
"Christ's
righteousness is my credential
00:27:57.17\00:27:59.61
to receiving the Holy Spirit."
00:27:59.64\00:28:01.74
And so I had it
always backwards.
00:28:01.78\00:28:03.11
I had all this work
and stuff that I thought
00:28:03.14\00:28:04.61
I had to do to please God.
00:28:04.65\00:28:07.28
And once I started
understanding the gospel
00:28:07.32\00:28:09.12
of righteousness by faith,
00:28:09.15\00:28:11.35
then I was on the track
to the light bulb moment,
00:28:11.39\00:28:15.16
which is about to happen.
00:28:15.19\00:28:16.73
That's just the
moment where I'm thinking,
00:28:16.76\00:28:18.13
okay, I need to
regear everything.
00:28:18.16\00:28:19.49
Okay. All right.
00:28:19.53\00:28:21.10
So you've read you've
listened to this series.
00:28:21.13\00:28:25.60
It's clicked with you, okay.
00:28:25.63\00:28:26.97
There's
something here. This is it.
00:28:27.00\00:28:28.70
So now what happens next?
00:28:28.74\00:28:30.37
Because now you've got
to take what you've learned,
00:28:30.41\00:28:32.07
what you've heard
00:28:32.11\00:28:33.44
and you've got to
manifest it into something
00:28:33.48\00:28:34.81
that's going to be
fruitful in your ministry?
00:28:34.84\00:28:36.85
So what happens next?
00:28:36.88\00:28:38.21
So what happens next
00:28:38.25\00:28:39.58
is Don Mackintosh
in Weimar, California
00:28:39.61\00:28:42.62
because no sooner
had I learned that,
00:28:42.65\00:28:45.15
we went to a
Pathways to Health event.
00:28:45.19\00:28:47.46
Mary, she was doing a lot
of work for them at that time.
00:28:47.49\00:28:51.99
And before COVID
knocked all that out,
00:28:52.03\00:28:54.40
but that was a great ministry.
00:28:54.43\00:28:55.76
So I had went up there
to help out as a chaplain.
00:28:55.80\00:28:57.70
And I ran across Don Mackintosh.
00:28:57.73\00:28:59.07
He says, "Hey, you
ready to come to Weimar?"
00:28:59.10\00:29:01.00
And I'm like, California, man.
00:29:01.04\00:29:02.44
Like I'm already west
far enough to Oklahoma.
00:29:02.47\00:29:05.04
Right.
00:29:05.07\00:29:06.41
You know, I get
past that Red River,
00:29:06.44\00:29:07.94
I don't want to go any
farther, but I ended up saying,
00:29:07.98\00:29:11.65
okay, you know I wanted to learn
00:29:11.68\00:29:15.45
the more of the
health side of the ministry.
00:29:15.48\00:29:17.25
I thought that
was something else
00:29:17.29\00:29:18.62
that I might add to the mix.
00:29:18.65\00:29:20.46
So we ended up
going to Weimar with Don
00:29:20.49\00:29:23.02
and I became the
NEWSTART chaplain there.
00:29:23.06\00:29:26.03
And then I was in
horror because I realized
00:29:26.06\00:29:28.80
what they were
asking me to do was
00:29:28.83\00:29:31.27
so you would
have a group of people
00:29:31.30\00:29:32.90
from all over the world.
00:29:32.93\00:29:34.27
I mean, literally
from every kind of a place
00:29:34.30\00:29:36.07
you can imagine come
to the NEWSTART facility
00:29:36.10\00:29:39.21
and usually a group
anywhere from 15 to 30.
00:29:39.24\00:29:42.31
And so my job for 18 days
every morning at 7 o'clock
00:29:42.34\00:29:47.65
was to present
some kind of devotional.
00:29:47.68\00:29:50.99
So I was like, so
I had 15 lectures.
00:29:51.02\00:29:53.25
I'm like, what am I going to do?
00:29:53.29\00:29:54.62
I went through
all kinds of stuff,
00:29:54.66\00:29:56.06
trying to figure out
what am I going to do?
00:29:56.09\00:29:58.76
And then I, it just
clicks, you know what to do.
00:29:58.79\00:30:01.96
That's right.
00:30:02.00\00:30:03.33
So then I start,
I had about a month
00:30:03.37\00:30:05.13
or two to prepare before
I actually went to Weimar.
00:30:05.17\00:30:08.47
And so I'm going
through all the books
00:30:08.50\00:30:09.94
you can imagine on
righteousness by faith.
00:30:09.97\00:30:11.87
You've got the hard, you
know, right conservative view.
00:30:11.91\00:30:15.28
Then you got the
more left liberal view,
00:30:15.31\00:30:16.88
all the stuff in between
00:30:16.91\00:30:18.78
all the crying babies and weeds
00:30:18.81\00:30:21.18
that you can get in through.
00:30:21.22\00:30:22.55
And I'm getting so
confused on what to do.
00:30:22.58\00:30:24.89
And then I just sat down
00:30:24.92\00:30:27.06
and it was the Holy Spirit.
00:30:27.09\00:30:29.59
Someone, I had heard someone
say before that Ellen White
00:30:29.62\00:30:31.63
was in the same situation
with the message in her day.
00:30:31.66\00:30:33.93
Oh, my goodness. Yes.
00:30:33.96\00:30:35.30
Trying to keep
people out of the hedge rows
00:30:35.33\00:30:37.87
and into the
center of the message.
00:30:37.90\00:30:39.63
And so in 1892,
she wrote a little book
00:30:39.67\00:30:41.50
called Steps to Christ.
00:30:41.54\00:30:42.87
Okay. So pause, Hit
the pause button there.
00:30:42.90\00:30:44.67
Because
everything you just said.
00:30:44.71\00:30:48.14
I think this is every
minister's experience.
00:30:48.18\00:30:50.48
Even, you know,
I'm a young minister,
00:30:50.51\00:30:52.61
but I've been in
the ministry now for,
00:30:52.65\00:30:55.55
you know, almost 10 years now.
00:30:55.58\00:30:57.32
And so, this has been
my ongoing experience,
00:30:57.35\00:30:59.92
the battle in my mind, you know,
00:30:59.95\00:31:01.82
growing from that early
stage to where I am now,
00:31:01.86\00:31:06.43
it seems like every
minister who's genuinely trying
00:31:06.46\00:31:09.13
to seek the Lord's will
goes through this battle
00:31:09.16\00:31:11.13
of you're hearing that far
right perspective and that,
00:31:11.17\00:31:14.37
you know, left, not
trying to add politics,
00:31:14.40\00:31:16.04
it's not political
conversation here, but again,
00:31:16.07\00:31:17.67
that ultraconservative
versus that ultraliberal,
00:31:17.71\00:31:20.94
trying to find
that happy balance
00:31:20.98\00:31:22.98
is not always that easy.
00:31:23.01\00:31:24.68
And it doesn't, it's not
easy because we're always,
00:31:24.71\00:31:27.35
at least in my experience,
00:31:27.38\00:31:28.72
I was listening to other people,
00:31:28.75\00:31:30.32
you know, reading this
book and reading that book
00:31:30.35\00:31:32.22
and reading that
article or reading that
00:31:32.25\00:31:34.29
because you always are
looking to other people
00:31:34.32\00:31:37.63
of more experience
or of a higher intellect
00:31:37.66\00:31:40.63
or a higher
intelligence in this area.
00:31:40.66\00:31:43.26
My experience came to the point
to where I was just gleaning
00:31:43.30\00:31:45.83
from other men and
trying to formulate this balance
00:31:45.87\00:31:48.74
perspective of what's right.
00:31:48.77\00:31:50.54
And, but you said
something that's crucial.
00:31:50.57\00:31:52.44
You finally had to just,
00:31:52.47\00:31:54.08
and just listen
to the Holy Spirit.
00:31:54.11\00:31:56.64
The Holy Spirit still works.
00:31:56.68\00:31:59.61
God's Holy Spirit still works.
He wants to lead and guide you.
00:31:59.65\00:32:02.75
And I think that
that's what was revolutionary,
00:32:02.78\00:32:04.82
even in my own experience,
as I finally got to a point
00:32:04.85\00:32:07.32
in my life, it's like, I'm not,
00:32:07.36\00:32:08.69
I can't listen
to any more sermons.
00:32:08.72\00:32:10.93
I can't read any more books.
00:32:10.96\00:32:12.39
I can't, not that those
things are necessarily bad
00:32:12.43\00:32:14.70
because a lot of
them are good, but Lord,
00:32:14.73\00:32:16.13
I need You to teach me.
00:32:16.16\00:32:17.50
I need You to show me,
00:32:17.53\00:32:18.90
as You said you would.
00:32:18.93\00:32:20.27
The Bible says
that the Holy Spirit,
00:32:20.30\00:32:21.64
the spirit of truth will lead
and guide us into all truth.
00:32:21.67\00:32:24.61
And so that seems to
be the experience you had.
00:32:24.64\00:32:27.74
Here you are the Holy
Spirit now is leading you
00:32:27.78\00:32:29.88
to that place in the
middle, that happy balance.
00:32:29.91\00:32:33.62
Now take us from there? Yeah.
00:32:33.65\00:32:35.08
So I basically threw
00:32:35.12\00:32:36.58
all my books away because
00:32:36.62\00:32:37.95
I was more confused than ever.
00:32:37.99\00:32:39.45
And I realized when I
went over to the library
00:32:39.49\00:32:41.86
I talked to, like
she says, "Yes, 1892,
00:32:41.89\00:32:43.76
it was written to
set this record straight
00:32:43.79\00:32:46.26
on what the steps to
righteousness by faith is."
00:32:46.29\00:32:49.60
And so I just
took that little book
00:32:49.63\00:32:51.50
and I tore it to pieces.
00:32:51.53\00:32:53.47
You know, I realized
00:32:53.50\00:32:55.00
that what I had in
front of me was gold.
00:32:55.04\00:32:56.54
I used to just
hand it out to people.
00:32:56.57\00:32:57.97
That's a Southern expression,
tore the pieces by the way,
00:32:58.01\00:32:59.97
because someone may have thought
00:33:00.01\00:33:01.34
you actually literally tore.
00:33:01.38\00:33:02.81
You tore it up
in a Southern way,
00:33:02.84\00:33:05.15
in a good way.
00:33:05.18\00:33:06.51
You know, you
just peeled through it,
00:33:06.55\00:33:07.88
you looked
through it, you studied it
00:33:07.92\00:33:09.25
from start to finish,
fine-tooth comb, right?
00:33:09.28\00:33:11.65
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:11.69\00:33:13.02
And this is where
Wheel of Faith comes from.
00:33:13.05\00:33:14.76
Right, I got you. Okay.
00:33:14.79\00:33:16.12
I didn't have, I
needed a rubric to put it in.
00:33:16.16\00:33:17.93
So I just thought of a wheel
00:33:17.96\00:33:20.80
and a circle with these pins.
00:33:20.83\00:33:22.73
And I put what's the first
step in righteousness by faith.
00:33:22.76\00:33:25.73
And, of course,
chapter one is God's love.
00:33:25.77\00:33:27.77
And in chapter one,
there is the cross of Calvary.
00:33:27.80\00:33:31.54
What is real righteousness,
imputed righteousness?
00:33:31.57\00:33:34.88
You know, and so I went
from the cross of Christ,
00:33:34.91\00:33:37.88
the second death to
righteousness by faith,
00:33:37.91\00:33:40.25
in His righteousness.
00:33:40.28\00:33:41.75
The chapter two,
the sinners need,
00:33:41.78\00:33:43.65
my righteousness is filthy rag.
00:33:43.69\00:33:45.39
My righteous is unequivalent.
00:33:45.42\00:33:47.06
It cannot pass the judgment.
00:33:47.09\00:33:49.92
That's right. I need
a perfect righteousness.
00:33:49.96\00:33:51.99
So I just went right
through sinner's need.
00:33:52.03\00:33:53.70
Then chapter
three is repentance.
00:33:53.73\00:33:56.10
And when you get into
chapter three repentance,
00:33:56.13\00:33:57.70
it's so easy to blow
right over the most important,
00:33:57.73\00:34:00.04
one of the most
important statements,
00:34:00.07\00:34:01.57
because you're thinking,
okay, turning from sin.
00:34:01.60\00:34:03.67
But she says,
before you can ever repent,
00:34:03.71\00:34:05.94
the sinner must come unto Me.
00:34:05.97\00:34:07.68
You come to Christ as you are
00:34:07.71\00:34:09.31
with all of your wretchedness.
00:34:09.34\00:34:10.68
If you understand
that you have a need
00:34:10.71\00:34:13.08
that your sin is
causing you trouble with God,
00:34:13.11\00:34:17.02
then you come to
Christ as you are.
00:34:17.05\00:34:18.79
And she bases that on Matthew 11
00:34:18.82\00:34:20.42
that called come unto me.
00:34:20.46\00:34:22.12
And then after come unto me,
now, conviction can take place.
00:34:22.16\00:34:26.53
And that comes
from the Holy Spirit.
00:34:26.56\00:34:27.96
Now a real repentance, right?
00:34:28.00\00:34:30.00
Not a manufactured repentance.
00:34:30.03\00:34:32.60
Genuine. So
explain that for a moment.
00:34:32.63\00:34:34.20
Because there's
somebody watching who is like,
00:34:34.24\00:34:35.67
I repent every day.
00:34:35.70\00:34:37.44
What is that genuine repentance?
00:34:37.47\00:34:39.54
Yeah. Psalm 51, Psalm 32.
00:34:39.57\00:34:41.88
She uses Psalm 51 to say,
00:34:41.91\00:34:43.45
this is real repentance
and no man can degenerate that.
00:34:43.48\00:34:46.58
Real repentance
is an acknowledgement
00:34:46.61\00:34:48.28
of what you had done.
00:34:48.32\00:34:50.25
And the life of sin,
you know, people say, well,
00:34:50.29\00:34:52.95
I repent of my
sin, but what's sin?
00:34:52.99\00:34:55.72
God wants you to know this sin.
00:34:55.76\00:34:57.56
This is what it's done for you.
00:34:57.59\00:34:59.19
And this is
what real repentance.
00:34:59.23\00:35:00.76
This is back at 28 in
my conversion experience,
00:35:00.80\00:35:03.70
real repentance
was God saying, Damon,
00:35:03.73\00:35:05.57
every time you
yelled at your wife,
00:35:05.60\00:35:07.30
every time you
screamed and hollered,
00:35:07.34\00:35:08.70
every time you threw
this across the room,
00:35:08.74\00:35:10.64
real repentance was
going through my life
00:35:10.67\00:35:13.61
and looking at everything
00:35:13.64\00:35:15.14
that God had brought to my mind.
00:35:15.18\00:35:16.51
And you're feeling
that, that brokenness of soul
00:35:16.54\00:35:19.58
and then asking
God to forgive me
00:35:19.61\00:35:21.92
and to cleanse
me and to cover me.
00:35:21.95\00:35:23.89
That's what causes
00:35:23.92\00:35:25.25
the real desire
for righteousness
00:35:25.29\00:35:26.62
is to see your unrighteousness.
00:35:26.65\00:35:28.56
That's what it's there for.
00:35:28.59\00:35:30.33
Then you reach out
and cry out with Jacob's
00:35:30.36\00:35:32.66
grip on that righteousness,
because I see mine,
00:35:32.69\00:35:35.50
that's the
importance of repentance.
00:35:35.53\00:35:37.40
And then after repentance, she
goes right into consecration,
00:35:37.43\00:35:40.04
which is baptism,
really die into self,
00:35:40.07\00:35:42.57
what that really means.
00:35:42.60\00:35:44.11
You know, not
just becoming a member
00:35:44.14\00:35:45.87
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:35:45.91\00:35:47.24
And it's true.
And yes, it's true.
00:35:47.28\00:35:49.08
I accept these at that
time, 27 fundamental beliefs,
00:35:49.11\00:35:52.41
but a dying to self
is a dying in Christ
00:35:52.45\00:35:55.48
and a dying to the world.
00:35:55.52\00:35:57.59
And then you've
just follow that flow
00:35:57.62\00:35:59.25
where she goes right out
of that into when you come up
00:35:59.29\00:36:01.36
out of that
water, now you receive
00:36:01.39\00:36:03.02
the gift of the Holy Spirit.
00:36:03.06\00:36:04.49
Now sanctification or
the importation of that
00:36:04.53\00:36:07.00
righteousness begins
and now the new life.
00:36:07.03\00:36:10.23
And then the reason
why I put it on a wheel
00:36:10.27\00:36:11.90
is because really the
work of the Holy Spirit
00:36:11.93\00:36:13.77
is to bring you right back
to coming to me, conviction.
00:36:13.80\00:36:16.40
It's just, it's like...
It's a daily experience, right?
00:36:16.44\00:36:21.48
I love that, wheel of faith.
00:36:21.51\00:36:22.84
That's really nice.
00:36:22.88\00:36:24.21
And so, and then, of
course, on the wheel of faith,
00:36:24.25\00:36:25.58
I also bring in the
centrality of the law
00:36:25.61\00:36:28.65
to the gospel because that
is important to an Adventist.
00:36:28.68\00:36:31.22
How does the law work
in relation to the gospel?
00:36:31.25\00:36:35.09
That should be
important to a Christian.
00:36:35.12\00:36:36.66
Yeah, period. Absolutely.
00:36:36.69\00:36:38.16
But yet, you know,
even when you say that,
00:36:38.19\00:36:40.86
especially within
the Adventist Church,
00:36:40.90\00:36:42.56
but you know, in
many people's lives,
00:36:42.60\00:36:44.57
they have placed
the law at the center
00:36:44.60\00:36:47.44
of their gospel
experience, right at the center
00:36:47.47\00:36:49.80
of their Christian experience
and that, you know, the law,
00:36:49.84\00:36:52.64
while it plays a major role,
it's not the center, right?
00:36:52.67\00:36:56.21
So yeah, go ahead
and continue through.
00:36:56.24\00:36:57.58
Right. No.
00:36:57.61\00:36:58.95
So when I developed
that and I put it out
00:36:58.98\00:37:01.35
at my first session,
00:37:01.38\00:37:04.39
I had a call for baptism,
00:37:04.42\00:37:06.19
something they didn't
do at the NEWSTART program,
00:37:06.22\00:37:07.96
very rarely.
00:37:07.99\00:37:09.32
You know, it was a health thing.
00:37:09.36\00:37:11.86
So I did this 15 part
series or 11 part series.
00:37:11.89\00:37:15.60
And at the end I had a call.
00:37:15.63\00:37:17.83
So in 18 days, you're
not going to get a lot of,
00:37:17.87\00:37:21.30
you know, it's very difficult
to get people to get them
00:37:21.34\00:37:24.14
through the
doctrines and all that stuff.
00:37:24.17\00:37:25.51
But I had a lot of people
that had Adventist background.
00:37:25.54\00:37:29.24
And I, that first time I
made a call I had one baptism,
00:37:29.28\00:37:32.61
right? Then the second session,
00:37:32.65\00:37:36.12
two baptisms, and
then to make a long story
00:37:36.15\00:37:39.12
short over about a
two and a half year period
00:37:39.15\00:37:41.96
that I was there we
had a hundred baptisms.
00:37:41.99\00:37:44.46
Wow.
00:37:44.49\00:37:45.83
Now here's the part, 30
of them were new baptisms.
00:37:45.86\00:37:48.36
But the part that floored
me was the 70 rebaptisms.
00:37:48.40\00:37:52.63
This is people
that had the experience
00:37:52.67\00:37:54.30
like I had, who had
left the Adventist Church.
00:37:54.34\00:37:57.07
And the first
time they really heard
00:37:57.11\00:37:58.77
the message of righteousness
by faith, the gospel,
00:37:58.81\00:38:01.68
how even all of our doctrines
are funneled through that,
00:38:01.71\00:38:04.88
our prophecies are
funneled through the gospel
00:38:04.91\00:38:07.68
when they heard that, they
were coming into that pool,
00:38:07.72\00:38:10.99
that baptismal pool came alive.
00:38:11.02\00:38:12.39
That's amazing.
00:38:12.42\00:38:13.76
And that's when I
realized I just stumbled
00:38:13.79\00:38:15.16
on to something. Okay.
00:38:15.19\00:38:16.76
So something is I've
never seen that many baptisms,
00:38:16.79\00:38:20.00
at least as me, as a pastor.
00:38:20.03\00:38:22.70
And I knew then that I
had stumbled on some gold.
00:38:22.73\00:38:26.23
This is like working
where all this other stuff,
00:38:26.27\00:38:28.97
goodness gracious.
00:38:29.00\00:38:30.34
you have one
baptism every two months
00:38:30.37\00:38:31.77
or maybe every six
months, or once a year.
00:38:31.81\00:38:34.21
Now I'm staying in the water.
00:38:34.24\00:38:37.21
And so I met a
division president
00:38:37.25\00:38:38.61
who came to the program.
00:38:38.65\00:38:39.98
He says, young man,
00:38:40.02\00:38:41.35
he was on his way out.
00:38:41.38\00:38:42.72
He's retiring. He
wasn't a president.
00:38:42.75\00:38:44.19
He was one of the vice,
something of the division.
00:38:44.22\00:38:47.79
He was on his way out.
00:38:47.82\00:38:49.16
And he says, "If you want
to see if this really works,
00:38:49.19\00:38:51.33
you need to take a church
00:38:51.36\00:38:53.19
and see how it works
00:38:53.23\00:38:54.63
in an Adventist Church setting."
00:38:54.66\00:38:57.07
So what I started doing
was in between the NEWSTART
00:38:57.10\00:39:00.37
sessions, because I would
have like two weeks in between,
00:39:00.40\00:39:02.74
I started taking calls to
go preach in other churches,
00:39:02.77\00:39:06.44
you know, and so
I have some slides
00:39:06.47\00:39:10.58
on what happened at Weimar.
00:39:10.61\00:39:11.95
Let's look at some of them.
I want to tell you about those.
00:39:11.98\00:39:13.92
All right. So
what's happening here?
00:39:13.95\00:39:15.28
Okay. So this,
this, the next three
00:39:15.32\00:39:17.65
or four slides, this is people.
00:39:17.69\00:39:19.59
So this is young.
00:39:19.62\00:39:21.19
This is a young
woman from Weimar.
00:39:21.22\00:39:22.56
Here's another person.
00:39:22.59\00:39:23.93
This is Maggie Belau.
00:39:23.96\00:39:26.13
I know Miss Maggie Belau.
00:39:26.16\00:39:27.50
Yeah, she... Now, she's a
strong Seventh-day Adventist.
00:39:27.53\00:39:29.93
She's not a backslider.
00:39:29.96\00:39:31.30
But this woman saw the
gospel in a deeper way.
00:39:31.33\00:39:34.70
And she, she represents a
lot of people that I meet.
00:39:34.74\00:39:38.51
They got the gospel,
00:39:38.54\00:39:39.87
but they never
saw the implication
00:39:39.91\00:39:41.71
of the depth of it.
00:39:41.74\00:39:43.08
And they want to be
baptized into the fullness
00:39:43.11\00:39:44.45
of this gospel message.
00:39:44.48\00:39:45.95
And so this young lady right
here was one of my favorite.
00:39:45.98\00:39:48.88
She was a, had
the similar story,
00:39:48.92\00:39:52.35
that idea had been
raised in the church.
00:39:52.39\00:39:54.29
You know, was a hard
worker there at Weimar
00:39:54.32\00:39:56.66
and a Bible worker
just doing different things.
00:39:56.69\00:39:59.39
And when she heard the
fullness of the gospel,
00:39:59.43\00:40:02.53
she, that's what she
wanted, to be rebaptized.
00:40:02.56\00:40:06.13
It's amazing.
00:40:06.17\00:40:07.50
And this last one, this
lady was a non-Adventist.
00:40:07.54\00:40:09.80
And she came into the...
00:40:09.84\00:40:11.87
She had some back,
Adventist background.
00:40:11.91\00:40:14.14
I caught her up on
all the doctrinal thing,
00:40:14.18\00:40:16.01
but we was on the gospel is
what brought her to baptism.
00:40:16.04\00:40:19.71
And so I, when I
saw all that working,
00:40:19.75\00:40:23.12
I decided to go try it
00:40:23.15\00:40:24.49
in different Adventist churches.
00:40:24.52\00:40:25.85
And so I started
doing this little,
00:40:25.89\00:40:27.62
I made them 11 day lectures.
00:40:27.66\00:40:29.79
So we'd start on a Friday
00:40:29.82\00:40:31.16
and end on the following Friday.
00:40:31.19\00:40:32.93
On Sabbath, we
have three in a row.
00:40:32.96\00:40:34.83
And I watched the
same thing happened
00:40:34.86\00:40:37.03
in every church that I went to,
00:40:37.07\00:40:39.47
whether it was in an
Indiana, there at Grass Valley
00:40:39.50\00:40:42.67
or wherever we went with this,
00:40:42.70\00:40:46.61
it was the same thing.
00:40:46.64\00:40:47.98
There was always a
number of new baptisms,
00:40:48.01\00:40:51.95
but a greater
number of rebaptisms
00:40:51.98\00:40:54.22
of Seventh-day Adventist saying,
00:40:54.25\00:40:55.92
"I've never seen
the gospel in the light
00:40:55.95\00:40:58.39
of righteousness by faith."
00:40:58.42\00:40:59.75
Amen.
00:40:59.79\00:41:01.12
And so then we went to Curaçao.
00:41:01.16\00:41:02.49
This, I've got a slide up here.
00:41:02.52\00:41:03.86
All right. So
this was interesting,
00:41:03.89\00:41:05.63
because we've decided to go,
00:41:05.66\00:41:07.20
okay, we go
international with it.
00:41:07.23\00:41:08.56
Let's see what
happens in an outside
00:41:08.60\00:41:10.30
of American frame work.
00:41:10.33\00:41:12.47
And so here we went
to the Dutch Caribbean.
00:41:12.50\00:41:15.67
Okay. And it was,
00:41:15.70\00:41:17.74
I was doing a health
event there at the hospital.
00:41:17.77\00:41:20.94
And so I did the same 11
night lecture series there.
00:41:20.98\00:41:23.78
I think I had to
shorten it up a little bit.
00:41:23.81\00:41:25.21
But anyway, at
the end I was told,
00:41:25.25\00:41:27.98
don't give a call for baptism
00:41:28.02\00:41:29.82
because down
here in the Caribbean,
00:41:29.85\00:41:31.19
we don't believe in rebaptism.
00:41:31.22\00:41:33.46
And so, or people
were unfavorable to it.
00:41:33.49\00:41:37.43
It was something you only did
00:41:37.46\00:41:38.79
if you had left the
church and grow sin.
00:41:38.83\00:41:40.53
And so I was really struggling.
00:41:40.56\00:41:42.06
I said this is
part of my ministry.
00:41:42.10\00:41:45.63
I've got to make, let
me at least make the call.
00:41:45.67\00:41:48.10
And so I'm at the
end of the series,
00:41:48.14\00:41:50.27
I made the call for
baptism and we had 30 people
00:41:50.31\00:41:53.64
come forward for rebaptism.
00:41:53.68\00:41:55.88
And the problem was though
00:41:55.91\00:41:57.25
the president didn't
want to okay the baptisms.
00:41:57.28\00:41:59.35
Oh, no. Okay.
00:41:59.38\00:42:00.78
So he's like, no, we
don't do that down here.
00:42:00.82\00:42:03.65
And so I took him
through the biographies
00:42:03.69\00:42:06.49
where Ellen
White was rebaptized.
00:42:06.52\00:42:08.46
So at 17, she was baptized
as a young Methodist girl.
00:42:08.49\00:42:10.93
And then at 31 or 32,
00:42:10.96\00:42:13.73
when she had a fuller
understanding of the gospel
00:42:13.76\00:42:15.86
and of the
three angels' message,
00:42:15.90\00:42:17.40
her husband rebaptized her.
00:42:17.43\00:42:19.17
So I go through this with him
00:42:19.20\00:42:20.54
and I talk about
it and he's like.
00:42:20.57\00:42:22.27
Okay. I'm in but I want to help.
00:42:22.30\00:42:24.41
So that's the pictures of him.
00:42:24.44\00:42:25.77
That's the conference president.
00:42:25.81\00:42:27.14
Let's pull that back over here.
00:42:27.18\00:42:28.51
So this is you
and the Let's see...
00:42:28.54\00:42:30.45
if we can get that
previous picture back up there.
00:42:30.48\00:42:32.68
So this is you and
the conference president.
00:42:32.71\00:42:34.05
Yes. He's to the left there
00:42:34.08\00:42:36.35
and he's in there.
00:42:36.38\00:42:37.89
So he wants to help baptize.
00:42:37.92\00:42:39.85
So he is helping me rebaptize
00:42:39.89\00:42:41.62
all these church members.
00:42:41.66\00:42:44.16
And so I, at this point, I know
00:42:44.19\00:42:48.16
that this message of
righteousness by faith,
00:42:48.20\00:42:50.80
it is a simple message.
00:42:50.83\00:42:52.17
Gospel.
00:42:52.20\00:42:53.54
Right, any clog kicker
like myself can preach it.
00:42:53.57\00:42:55.60
Anybody can preach it.
00:42:55.64\00:42:57.61
Absolutely.
00:42:57.64\00:42:58.97
Anybody can promote this gospel
00:42:59.01\00:43:00.34
and it's always
going to do this same work.
00:43:00.38\00:43:01.71
It's always
going to do this work.
00:43:01.74\00:43:03.68
Okay. So let's kind of
dial back here for a moment
00:43:03.71\00:43:06.48
because you
quickly walked us through
00:43:06.51\00:43:09.05
this Steps to Christ
where this wheel of faith idea
00:43:09.08\00:43:12.29
kind of manifested
itself and came about.
00:43:12.32\00:43:15.36
So now as a pastor,
you've been implementing this
00:43:15.39\00:43:19.59
in your own church.
00:43:19.63\00:43:22.00
Have you had any experiences
with challenges along the way?
00:43:22.03\00:43:25.33
Perhaps, maybe some
church members who've been in
00:43:25.37\00:43:28.27
the church for a long time
who said this isn't the way,
00:43:28.30\00:43:31.04
or I don't agree with this.
00:43:31.07\00:43:33.58
Have you experienced
any challenges along the way
00:43:33.61\00:43:35.84
in presenting, you know,
implementing these methods
00:43:35.88\00:43:38.85
in your new ministry?
00:43:38.88\00:43:40.22
Yeah. Elder Moyer, the Oklahoma
00:43:40.25\00:43:42.08
conference
president, when I first told him
00:43:42.12\00:43:43.55
that I was thinking
about preaching this,
00:43:43.59\00:43:45.25
he told me be
very careful young man.
00:43:45.29\00:43:48.12
He goes you should, but
I'm just going to tell you,
00:43:48.16\00:43:51.33
my conference president told me
00:43:51.36\00:43:52.69
this years ago, be careful.
00:43:52.73\00:43:54.10
So I took that
lightly and where I'm at now,
00:43:54.13\00:43:57.60
I want to be careful
00:43:57.63\00:43:58.97
because some of
this is still fresh,
00:43:59.00\00:44:00.54
but I also want to be honest,
00:44:00.57\00:44:02.50
wherever I've
ever preached this,
00:44:02.54\00:44:04.54
there is also a backlash to it.
00:44:04.57\00:44:06.34
There's also a resistance to it.
00:44:06.37\00:44:10.65
In Conroe, I've
been here two years.
00:44:10.68\00:44:12.58
I've taken the wheel
of faith as a backdrop.
00:44:12.61\00:44:15.22
And I have
preached the Elijah message,
00:44:15.25\00:44:17.65
12 chapters of Daniel, the
sanctuary, everything flows
00:44:17.69\00:44:21.62
together so beautifully
00:44:21.66\00:44:23.69
that we, that typically
it's disconnected stuff.
00:44:23.73\00:44:27.03
The sanctuary is over here.
00:44:27.06\00:44:28.40
Daniel's over
here, Revelation's here.
00:44:28.43\00:44:29.76
The Book of Hebrews is here.
00:44:29.80\00:44:31.30
When you take the message
of righteousness by faith,
00:44:31.33\00:44:33.30
and that's all that
the wheel of faith is.
00:44:33.34\00:44:35.17
And you take that
matrix, that rubric,
00:44:35.20\00:44:37.77
everything that we believe
fits together so beautifully.
00:44:37.81\00:44:41.28
But like you said, one
of the things that I've had
00:44:41.31\00:44:43.21
is that there are
people that just don't have
00:44:43.24\00:44:45.61
the stomach for
it, because it is
00:44:45.65\00:44:47.45
the true and
faithful witness to Laodicea.
00:44:47.48\00:44:49.65
It is the shaken message.
00:44:49.68\00:44:51.15
And when you preach it,
00:44:51.19\00:44:52.52
you are going to have
people that rebel against it,
00:44:52.55\00:44:53.92
don't like it, don't want
to hear it for various reasons.
00:44:53.96\00:44:56.39
And so, we've gained a
hundred people at Conroe,
00:44:56.42\00:44:59.23
but we've lost a 20- 25 people.
00:44:59.26\00:45:04.80
They went somewhere
else because it's just not.
00:45:04.83\00:45:08.14
And you know, and
that's, and it's sad to think
00:45:08.17\00:45:10.17
about that because you
don't want that to happen.
00:45:10.21\00:45:12.87
But it's just the reality that,
00:45:12.91\00:45:15.18
you know, again,
as I was brought in,
00:45:15.21\00:45:17.55
I was taught this very hardcore,
00:45:17.58\00:45:19.91
very firm, you
know, just kind of
00:45:19.95\00:45:23.42
doctrinal related, you know,
00:45:23.45\00:45:25.22
bullet point messages.
00:45:25.25\00:45:26.59
You know, go tell them about
where they go when they die
00:45:26.62\00:45:28.66
and make sure they
understand and go tell them
00:45:28.69\00:45:30.33
about how they've got to
keep the seventh day Sabbath
00:45:30.36\00:45:32.39
and, you know, teach them
the importance of the law.
00:45:32.43\00:45:35.10
You know, really teach them
that investigative judgment.
00:45:35.13\00:45:37.87
Let them know about 1844.
00:45:37.90\00:45:39.37
And so even as a, even
early on in my ministry,
00:45:39.40\00:45:42.37
as I'm trying to learn
how to become an evangelist,
00:45:42.40\00:45:45.17
that seemed, it seemed to me
00:45:45.21\00:45:46.71
that that's what my
ministry had become was
00:45:46.74\00:45:48.78
this kind of bullet-pointed,
all right tonight
00:45:48.81\00:45:50.75
I'm talking about this,
and we've got to really explain
00:45:50.78\00:45:52.78
that and talk about this.
00:45:52.81\00:45:54.15
And so it became all of
these individual messages,
00:45:54.18\00:45:57.32
again, which are great.
00:45:57.35\00:45:58.69
The beauty of
the message is great,
00:45:58.72\00:46:00.66
but kind of like what
I said at the beginning,
00:46:00.69\00:46:02.46
I was, I felt like
00:46:02.49\00:46:03.83
I was teaching the rules
00:46:03.86\00:46:05.19
rather than the ruler.
00:46:05.23\00:46:06.56
And if you don't have,
00:46:06.59\00:46:07.93
if you're not teaching
bringing them to Christ first,
00:46:07.96\00:46:10.60
the rules and all those
other things, and the messages
00:46:10.63\00:46:13.10
that, you know, all those
individual doctrinal messages
00:46:13.13\00:46:15.14
aren't going to
mean anything to someone
00:46:15.17\00:46:17.31
if they don't have a personal
relationship with Jesus.
00:46:17.34\00:46:19.91
So for me, you know, for
me, you know, just hearing
00:46:19.94\00:46:22.04
what you're saying, for me,
00:46:22.08\00:46:23.61
what
revolutionized my experience was
00:46:23.65\00:46:25.68
I was introduced to the
series called all about Jesus
00:46:25.71\00:46:28.48
Revival seminars by Lee Venden
00:46:28.52\00:46:30.62
and his father
was Morris Venden.
00:46:30.65\00:46:31.99
And I watched the series
00:46:32.02\00:46:33.56
and it just
revolutionized my thinking.
00:46:33.59\00:46:35.52
It's not a complete abandonment
00:46:35.56\00:46:37.73
of our doctrines and
our beliefs, but certainly
00:46:37.76\00:46:40.76
what it does is it says,
why do we have all of these
00:46:40.80\00:46:43.10
beautiful doctrines?
00:46:43.13\00:46:44.47
It's because of the
righteousness of Christ.
00:46:44.50\00:46:46.07
And if you can
approach it from the perspective
00:46:46.10\00:46:47.90
of the righteousness of Christ,
00:46:47.94\00:46:49.34
then your
ministry is of no avail.
00:46:49.37\00:46:51.21
You're not going to penetrate
the hearts and minds of people.
00:46:51.24\00:46:53.41
And it's amazing
that you talked about the
00:46:53.44\00:46:56.04
rebaptism because at
every, almost every single one
00:46:56.08\00:46:58.91
of my evangelistic series,
00:46:58.95\00:47:00.92
we would have new converts.
00:47:00.95\00:47:02.68
We would have non-Adventist
come into the church,
00:47:02.72\00:47:05.15
but in every, almost
every single one of my series,
00:47:05.19\00:47:07.72
the vast majority of
rebaptism was a whole lot more
00:47:07.76\00:47:11.99
than the number of new baptisms,
00:47:12.03\00:47:14.20
because people
come up to me and say,
00:47:14.23\00:47:15.56
man, I've never
heard the sanctuary
00:47:15.60\00:47:17.53
from that
perspective, or I've never seen
00:47:17.57\00:47:20.04
our doctrines
from the perspective
00:47:20.07\00:47:21.77
of righteousness by faith.
00:47:21.80\00:47:23.34
And so, I can completely
relate to what you're saying.
00:47:23.37\00:47:25.64
Right, because the
doctrines are protective truths
00:47:25.67\00:47:28.54
to righteousness by faith.
00:47:28.58\00:47:30.51
State of the dead for example,
00:47:30.55\00:47:32.65
stand-alone topic, it's true.
00:47:32.68\00:47:34.08
The proof text that we use,
00:47:34.12\00:47:35.45
but there is
life only in Christ,
00:47:35.48\00:47:37.22
and you can only have
life if you have righteousness
00:47:37.25\00:47:39.09
and
righteousness alone is in him.
00:47:39.12\00:47:40.76
So that teaching
that we try to correct out
00:47:40.79\00:47:42.76
in the Protestant world
is to protect the gospel,
00:47:42.79\00:47:45.93
you know? And you think about
how exciting it is for pastor.
00:47:45.96\00:47:50.80
You know, usually you
sit down with Bible studies
00:47:50.83\00:47:52.43
or you do an
evangelistic series,
00:47:52.47\00:47:53.80
within three or four
nights you're at the Sabbath,
00:47:53.84\00:47:55.54
you're at the law
and you lose people.
00:47:55.57\00:47:57.44
But if you have
sat down with people
00:47:57.47\00:47:58.91
and brought them
through the gospel
00:47:58.94\00:48:01.01
and they're
converted when they show up
00:48:01.04\00:48:02.38
at your meeting or
they're converted before
00:48:02.41\00:48:04.31
you ever get to the Sabbath.
00:48:04.35\00:48:05.78
So I don't do, we do not do,
00:48:05.81\00:48:07.32
at my church we're doing a
training program right now.
00:48:07.35\00:48:09.58
I'm actually training our church
00:48:09.62\00:48:11.89
on how to go out
and do these themselves,
00:48:11.92\00:48:13.72
how to find it in
the Bible themselves.
00:48:13.76\00:48:16.19
And we will not do doctrines
or prophecy without the gospel
00:48:16.22\00:48:20.60
first or mingling it
through at the same time,
00:48:20.63\00:48:23.60
because that is
the power of God.
00:48:23.63\00:48:25.47
He says, "The power
of God unto salvation
00:48:25.50\00:48:27.14
is through the gospel,
00:48:27.17\00:48:28.50
through this
righteousness of God."
00:48:28.54\00:48:30.24
In Adventists,
we have got to start
00:48:30.27\00:48:32.84
bringing that gospel to
the forefront and bringing
00:48:32.87\00:48:35.34
everything in through it.
00:48:35.38\00:48:37.05
And this is my burden
00:48:37.08\00:48:38.41
because this is where
families are going to be healed.
00:48:38.45\00:48:40.25
This is where divorces
00:48:40.28\00:48:41.62
are going to stop in our church.
00:48:41.65\00:48:42.98
This is where churches are going
00:48:43.02\00:48:44.35
to start to get along.
00:48:44.39\00:48:45.72
This is where churches
are going to finally start
00:48:45.75\00:48:47.09
to go out and do their
work is win this conversion.
00:48:47.12\00:48:48.56
It's where our young people,
00:48:48.59\00:48:49.92
we're going to be able
to retain our young people
00:48:49.96\00:48:52.03
because our young
people are leaving
00:48:52.06\00:48:54.06
out the back door
and not coming back.
00:48:54.10\00:48:55.96
And it's just amazing
how much our young people
00:48:56.00\00:48:58.23
are just leaving in our church.
00:48:58.27\00:49:00.37
We need those young people.
00:49:00.40\00:49:01.74
They're the next generation,
but they're not hearing
00:49:01.77\00:49:03.37
the true righteousness of Christ
00:49:03.41\00:49:05.84
righteousness by faith gospel.
00:49:05.87\00:49:07.41
We think it's an
old Victorian doctrine.
00:49:07.44\00:49:09.38
And so we want to
default to entertainment,
00:49:09.41\00:49:11.58
or we default to this new mode
00:49:11.61\00:49:12.98
that's out there or
this new crusade to fight.
00:49:13.01\00:49:15.52
No, bring them
this way, give it,
00:49:15.55\00:49:17.35
at least give it a try
and watch what your youth,
00:49:17.39\00:49:20.09
because in my church
right now, our youth are coming
00:49:20.12\00:49:22.79
to our training events.
00:49:22.82\00:49:24.16
Our youth are
excited, not all of them,
00:49:24.19\00:49:26.29
but there is a
segment of our youth
00:49:26.33\00:49:28.16
that are sitting
down with their Bible
00:49:28.20\00:49:30.30
going through,
what does this mean,
00:49:30.33\00:49:32.87
righteousness by faith.
00:49:32.90\00:49:34.24
That's right.
00:49:34.27\00:49:35.60
And I just want to
say just really quickly,
00:49:35.64\00:49:36.97
and I'm sure, Pastor, you
can reiterate this as well.
00:49:37.01\00:49:39.07
You know, as powerful as
this true gospel message is,
00:49:39.11\00:49:43.45
it is not going to win everyone.
00:49:43.48\00:49:44.91
It didn't matter
how well or how awesome
00:49:44.95\00:49:47.28
of this you present.
00:49:47.32\00:49:48.65
You know, this is,
it's a personal decision.
00:49:48.68\00:49:50.02
People have to make the personal
00:49:50.05\00:49:51.39
decision to follow Jesus.
00:49:51.42\00:49:52.85
And so I've really
enjoyed our conversation.
00:49:52.89\00:49:55.72
And anyway, as you were
speaking there at the end.
00:49:55.76\00:49:57.53
It reminded me of, you
know, Ellen White says,
00:49:57.56\00:49:59.63
and I can't remember
if it's in Steps to Christ
00:49:59.66\00:50:01.33
or not, but she says
somewhere in her writings
00:50:01.36\00:50:03.16
that in no other
clearer place is salvation
00:50:03.20\00:50:05.63
made more simple than
in there in John Chapter 3,
00:50:05.67\00:50:08.74
when Jesus is
talking to Nicodemus.
00:50:08.77\00:50:10.74
And I go back to that chapter.
00:50:10.77\00:50:14.14
And the revolutionary point
00:50:14.18\00:50:15.51
there that just
really stands out to me
00:50:15.54\00:50:17.35
is, you know, He's
having this conversation.
00:50:17.38\00:50:18.71
He says,
Nicodemus, you know what?
00:50:18.75\00:50:20.22
You've got to be born again."
00:50:20.25\00:50:21.58
What? I've got to go
back in my mother's womb.
00:50:21.62\00:50:22.95
No, no, I'm talking
about spiritual things.
00:50:22.98\00:50:25.09
And then the real breaking
moment is not John 3:16,
00:50:25.12\00:50:28.49
which most people hold on to,
00:50:28.52\00:50:30.09
it's that, it's the few verses
before I believe it's verse 14
00:50:30.13\00:50:32.66
where he says, "As
Moses lifted up the serpent
00:50:32.69\00:50:35.20
in the wilderness,
00:50:35.23\00:50:37.40
so shall also the
Son of man be lifted up."
00:50:37.43\00:50:39.30
Brother.
00:50:39.33\00:50:40.67
What is he doing? He's pointing
to the righteousness of Christ.
00:50:40.70\00:50:44.87
Which is, keep your eyes
00:50:44.91\00:50:47.08
on that
sanctuary in the heavens.
00:50:47.11\00:50:48.48
It truly is.
00:50:48.51\00:50:50.28
Wheel of Faith Ministries.
00:50:50.31\00:50:52.41
So I love that,
Pastor. I appreciate it.
00:50:52.45\00:50:54.55
We were actually coming down
00:50:54.58\00:50:56.28
to the last few moments of this.
00:50:56.32\00:50:57.89
We have just a
couple of minutes left.
00:50:57.92\00:50:59.65
We're actually going
to put up an address roll
00:50:59.69\00:51:01.72
in just a moment
and how you can contact
00:51:01.76\00:51:05.89
Pastor Damon Snead here
and Wheel of Faith Ministries.
00:51:05.93\00:51:08.56
Perhaps, maybe
you have questions,
00:51:08.60\00:51:10.10
perhaps you want to
support the ministry,
00:51:10.13\00:51:12.00
donate to his ministry.
00:51:12.03\00:51:13.37
Maybe you just want to
connect with him and say,
00:51:13.40\00:51:14.74
"Hey, I'm a pastor.
00:51:14.77\00:51:16.14
I'm a Bible worker.
I'm a leader at my church.
00:51:16.17\00:51:19.07
I want to be educated.
00:51:19.11\00:51:20.44
Can you point me in
the right direction?"
00:51:20.48\00:51:21.84
And so, we're
actually going to put up
00:51:21.88\00:51:23.24
that roll right about now.
00:51:23.28\00:51:24.78
So here's how you can contact
00:51:24.81\00:51:26.58
Pastor Damon Snead at
Wheel of Faith Ministries
00:51:26.61\00:51:31.35
Wheel of Faith Ministries
seeks to train and equip members
00:51:31.39\00:51:34.89
to preach and teach the gospel
00:51:34.92\00:51:37.09
in all its components,
00:51:37.13\00:51:38.49
so that each church may
experience that long awaited
00:51:38.53\00:51:41.83
return to primitive godliness.
00:51:41.86\00:51:44.63
To find out more,
just visit their website
00:51:44.67\00:51:47.27
WheelOfFaithMinistries.org.
00:51:47.30\00:51:50.14
That's
WheelOfFaithMinistries.org.
00:51:50.17\00:51:54.28
You may also
call them at area code
00:51:54.31\00:51:56.31
(832) 293-2855.
00:51:56.34\00:52:00.82
If you'd prefer to
write, their mailing address
00:52:00.85\00:52:03.39
is Wheel of Faith Ministries,
00:52:03.42\00:52:05.65
212 Valley Drive,
Conroe, Texas 77303.
00:52:05.69\00:52:11.59