Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY200054A
|
00:01 As you're well aware,
00:02 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for today's special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people 01:14 Hello, and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:17 I'm Yvonne Shelton 01:18 and I am so excited about the program 01:21 that we have for you today, 01:23 because it is one of meaning and purpose 01:26 and we try to bring you programs 01:28 that are going to inspire you and encourage you. 01:31 And that is what this one is about today. 01:34 I'd like to open with a scripture, 01:38 Matthew 11:28, 01:40 "Come to me..." 01:41 This is from the New King James Version. 01:43 "Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden 01:46 and I will give you rest. 01:48 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, 01:52 for I am gentle and lowly in heart 01:54 and you will find rest for your souls, 01:58 for My yoke is easy and My burden is light." 02:02 Many of you are struggling 02:03 under the yoke of emotional pain 02:07 for whatever reason, 02:08 and today we're going to talk about 02:10 a specific area of emotional challenge. 02:15 So thank you for being with us, 02:17 let me introduce our guests to you. 02:19 We have Antionette Duck 02:22 and they're both from Mafgia Ministries. 02:24 Antionette is the founder 02:27 of and a speaker from Mafgia Ministries. 02:30 And then, Diane Wagner and she is a co-speaker. 02:35 So after our music from Pam Lister, 02:39 we are going to talk to our guests 02:41 and find out 02:42 what is Mafgia Ministry is all about. 03:05 Once upon His back He knew 03:09 This was the beginning Of the end 03:15 With every fragile Step he grew 03:19 More and more determined To finish it 03:29 The world saw a man With a tree on His back 03:36 And they laughed 03:40 But God saw His Son who He loved 03:46 Carry more than that 03:52 No, He didn't just carry the cross 03:59 He carried me 04:08 He didn't just count the cost 04:14 He counted me 04:22 So much has been said 04:25 Of what happened at Calvary 04:31 Oh but I believe 04:36 He didn't just carry the cross 04:42 He carried me 04:51 Mercy held my broken heart 04:55 Close against His shoulders 04:57 As He wept 05:01 Love beyond a moment scarred 05:05 The hands and feet Of one I never met 05:15 The world saw a man die 05:18 A martyr between two thieves 05:26 God saw a lamb bridge 05:29 The gap of eternity 05:38 No, He didn't just carry the cross 05:45 He carried me. 05:54 He didn't just count the cost 05:59 He counted me 06:08 So much has been said 06:11 Of what happened at Calvary 06:17 Oh but I believe 06:22 He didn't just carry the cross 06:28 He carried me 06:35 So much has been said 06:39 Of what happened at Calvary 06:45 Oh but I believe 06:50 He didn't just carry the cross 06:56 No, He didn't just carry the cross 07:03 No, He didn't just carry the cross 07:10 He carried me 07:16 He carried me 07:31 Thank you, Pam. 07:33 He didn't just carry the cross, He carried me. 07:36 And I know that 07:37 all of us can think about times in our lives 07:40 where we were carried by the Lord. 07:43 We couldn't even move ourselves, 07:45 He carried us. 07:47 So thank you Pam for that beautiful song 07:50 and we want to welcome our guests again. 07:53 Antionette Duck and Diane Wagner from Mafgia. 07:57 I pronounced it wrong in the beginning. 07:59 It's Mafgia Ministries. 08:01 So welcome. Thank you. 08:03 Tell us about Mafgia, what is it? 08:05 Mafgia, it's a Hebrew word and it means intercessor. 08:09 As a ministry, 08:10 we are committed to interceding for the sanctity, 08:13 the value of human life 08:15 from its very beginning until natural death. 08:18 But we're also committed to interceding 08:20 for reconciliation and redemption 08:23 for women and for men 08:25 who have experienced an abortion. 08:27 We really believe that 08:30 the message of the sanctity of life 08:33 is the gospel. 08:36 If you think of the verse John 3:16, 08:39 it says that, 08:40 "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son 08:44 that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, 08:47 but have everlasting life." 08:49 We believe that we are made in the image of the Lord 08:52 and that our value was established at creation 08:55 and it was fortified at the cross. 08:58 The Lord loved us so much that He gave His Son for us. 09:02 He has established our value. 09:05 In the case though, if someone has had an abortion, 09:09 if they've made that decision, 09:11 they have to remember the rest of the verse. 09:14 He gave His only Son 09:15 so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, 09:18 but have everlasting life. 09:20 The message of this ministry is that 09:24 you are intrinsically valuable. 09:27 Your unborn child was intrinsically valuable, 09:30 but if you have done 09:32 something that can't be undone through abortion, 09:34 the Lord is waiting to offer freedom and hope 09:38 and complete restoration. 09:39 And what an important message that is. 09:42 Because there are so many women 09:43 who are carrying around the guilt 09:45 of having done that 09:46 and thinking, 09:48 "What did I do? And how can I undo it? 09:50 And the Lord must not forgive me 09:51 and it's unforgivable." 09:53 There's nothing that's unforgivable. 09:55 Yes. 09:56 And so what a beautiful, what a beautiful message. 09:59 What made you decide to found this ministry? 10:04 Well, I was not raised Adventist. 10:06 I was actually raised Southern Baptist. 10:08 I myself was rescued from abortion. 10:11 There were people 10:12 who firmly believed in my value, 10:14 firmly believed in the value of my mother. 10:16 And for our sakes, 10:18 they went to very hard places, uncomfortable places 10:22 to intercede for us. 10:25 And this issue has been something 10:28 that has just been a part of our lives 10:30 from my very beginning. 10:34 When I encountered the Sabbath truth, 10:37 that was just incredible and wonderful for me. 10:40 And eventually, 10:42 I came into the Adventist Church. 10:44 When I did there, 10:47 I experienced, 10:49 encountered a certain silence 10:51 and inconsistencies on this issue. 10:53 And I was encouraged, you know what? 10:56 Do something about it. 10:57 And so the Mafgia Ministry was born out of that 11:01 and then I prayed and said, 11:03 "Lord, send me a woman who is post-abortive, 11:06 who's experienced Your healing." 11:08 And Dianne Wagner. Wow! 11:10 And tell us, Dianne, how did you guys connect? 11:15 It's phenomenal because I was taking my family to GYC, 11:19 which is the Generation of Youth for Christ, 11:21 a Christian camp meeting sort of for young people. 11:25 And Antionette had a booth there. 11:28 And because of my past because I was post-abortive, 11:31 because of encounters I had had, 11:34 I avoided the pro-life, 11:37 right to life people 11:39 because I had had been hurt. 11:41 They seem to value the unborn more than they did me. 11:45 And Antionette just changed my life 11:49 and when I met her, that's when I began my journey 11:52 because I knew the Lord had forgiven me. 11:55 I already had the experience of confession and repentance, 11:58 but there was still a lot of unresolved issues 12:02 and meeting her was like a breath of fresh air 12:05 is what I always say 12:06 because it gave me the courage to pursue. 12:09 I want more, I want everything the Lord has. 12:13 And I know the Lord put us together. 12:17 Her prayers were answered, 12:19 but my silent prayers were answered, 12:21 prayers I didn't even know existed. 12:23 So yeah. 12:24 Let's unpack that a little bit 12:26 the whole idea that 12:30 there are some who value the unborn 12:33 more than the mother of the unborn. 12:36 Can you unpack that a little bit? 12:38 Not necessarily your experience but just in general? 12:41 I don't question the intention 12:44 because the unborn is vulnerable 12:46 and it has value. 12:50 So I don't want to say that. 12:52 I would say more misguided 12:53 because a woman doesn't go and have an abortion 12:56 like she goes to an ice cream parlor 12:58 to pick out, you know, ice cream. 13:00 It's very traumatic. 13:01 It's a very bad place, a very scary place. 13:05 And I think for years 13:06 the focus was so much on that unborn child 13:09 that the mother in crisis was trampled on. 13:13 I'll give you a quick example. 13:15 I was visiting a church with some friends of mine. 13:18 And I would have left 13:20 if I had known what the subject was for the day, 13:22 but it was on abortion. 13:24 And he was the real loud 13:25 Bible thumping kind of preacher. 13:28 And finally he came to the conclusion, 13:31 loud conclusion 13:32 that the Lord would not and could not forgive a woman 13:36 who'd had an abortion. 13:38 You know the focus was so much on the sin 13:40 instead of the Savior. 13:42 Yes. 13:43 And so because of different experiences like that, 13:46 I just came back. 13:49 And I love what Antionette focused on, 13:51 the value, the intrinsic value 13:54 not only of that unborn child, 13:57 but of the woman or the father of that baby 13:59 and even the parents. 14:01 The parents sometimes 14:03 will encourage their daughter to abort 14:05 and it's not that 14:06 they're necessarily trying to be bad. 14:09 They truly are thinking this is the best answer. 14:13 And because we've been so silent on this issue 14:16 and have not had a place 14:18 where people can go and hash out 14:20 the raw hard questions. 14:22 They just, 14:23 they get afraid and they go for an answer 14:26 even if it's not the right answer. 14:29 That's a beautiful response especially focusing on the sin 14:34 and not the Savior. 14:36 That to me that is key. 14:38 Because the Savior is the one who takes away the sin, 14:44 who restores us and replenishes us. 14:46 So yes. 14:48 Yes, that's beautiful. 14:50 So tell us a bit 14:52 about the theme of your ministry? 14:57 Sure. 14:59 Well, certainly for this interview, 15:03 we really wanted to focus 15:04 on the idea of ministry and mission. 15:11 And it kind of leads me into the first story 15:14 we wanted to touch on. 15:16 Because when we see this issue 15:18 through the lens of ministry and mission, 15:21 it changes everything. 15:23 It's not simply this political thing 15:26 that can't be touched 15:27 or it's not simply about that's right and this is wrong. 15:30 It becomes a way of ministering the gospel 15:34 which is what the Lord has called us to do. 15:37 There was a young pastor back in 1981. 15:40 His name is Andy Merritt. 15:44 He became a believer in 1970, 15:48 September 20th 1970. 15:50 And the Lord really impressed him 15:52 to get involved in the abortion issue. 15:55 He began the first church based crisis pregnancy center 15:59 in the United States back in 1981. 16:02 A place that would be a refuge for women 16:05 who were in crisis, 16:07 where they could be ministered to, 16:08 but also where they could learn about the value 16:12 of their unborn child. 16:15 At that same time, 16:16 my mother believed that she was pregnant. 16:19 She began to experience morning sickness. 16:21 He started this center out of a church, 16:24 Edgewood Baptist Church in Columbus, Georgia. 16:27 And at that same time, 16:28 my mother was in an extremely abusive marriage 16:31 and began to experience morning sickness 16:34 and she was living in Columbus, Georgia. 16:36 And the Lord, I say, but the Lord 16:42 because she had decided 16:44 she was going to have an abortion. 16:45 She wasn't going to bring a child 16:47 into this situation, 16:48 into that marriage. 16:50 But the Lord had raised up 16:53 a refuge, a beacon of light through Andy Merritt 16:57 and through that church. 16:59 She would go on to meet Andy. 17:01 She would visit the center 17:04 and she would see that the unborn was alive 17:07 with fingers and toes and hands and feet. 17:09 She had no idea that her unborn child was alive 17:13 and she made the very brave choice 17:16 to face the future with her child, 17:18 to face it with me. 17:21 What was remarkable about that is 17:23 after I was born, 17:25 Andy Merritt continued to pour into our lives, 17:27 the church continued to pour into our lives. 17:30 It wasn't simply a matter of saying, 17:32 "Don't have the abortion." 17:34 After she was a mother, 17:36 still in the midst of crisis, 17:38 the church continued to walk alongside her and us 17:41 in that crisis. 17:43 And what Andy did, 17:47 he had chosen to see this issue 17:50 through the lens of ministry and mission. 17:53 Because he spent, 17:54 it wasn't just about the unborn, 17:57 he wanted to preserve my mother, 17:59 he wanted to preserve her spiritual soundness. 18:02 And if you think about what the Lord accomplished, 18:07 he through this man, he saved my life, 18:11 he preserved my mother. 18:13 And he had no idea that all of these years later 18:15 I would meet Dianne. 18:16 Dianne who then would go 18:18 on this incredibly courageous journey 18:20 of her own healing from her abortion experiences. 18:23 And now Dianne is ministering 18:25 to person after person after person, 18:28 all because one man said, 18:30 "I'm going to view this through ministry and mission." 18:32 Yes. 18:34 Isn't that what the Lord has called us to do? 18:36 Absolutely, and look at what God did. 18:38 I mean, not only did he preserve your life, 18:40 but gave you a mission 18:42 to help others 18:44 to preserve their children's lives. 18:46 I mean, it's, man, God... 18:49 One of the things 18:50 that's so amazing to me about God is that 18:52 He accomplishes so many things with one move. 18:55 You know, He doesn't just do one move and that's it. 18:57 It stands in isolation. 18:59 No, that one move accomplishes multiple things 19:02 and that's what He did with you. 19:04 And that's just such a... 19:05 It's really, really beautiful. Amen. 19:07 Really beautiful. 19:09 You have a story about transformation, 19:11 tell us about that? 19:13 Well, you know after meeting Antionette, 19:15 I started doing research into abortion 19:18 and the effect of an abortion, 19:20 what it does to a woman or a man. 19:22 And as I read, I identified myself. 19:25 It almost it's like, it validated me, 19:29 "That's why I feel this way, 19:30 that's why I'm having this problem." 19:32 But being involved with this ministry 19:34 has been wonderful 19:35 because we've not only seen a transformation in ourselves, 19:39 but we've been given the beautiful privilege 19:42 to see the transformation in other people. 19:46 The impact of abortion is so much more broad spread 19:51 than what we think. 19:52 You know, I read once like 12% of relationships 19:56 married or not 19:58 survive an abortion experience 20:00 because it's so volatile and so it's a silent damage. 20:04 And I'm reminding of a woman we met at GYC 20:08 and she had brought her family. 20:11 The intent was that they could be blessed, 20:13 they could be drawn closer to the Lord, 20:16 we'll come to find out. 20:18 They all passed our booth, 20:20 but she came back privately later. 20:22 And she shared her abortion experience 20:26 and the heartbreak 20:28 this woman had felt and put up with. 20:31 And also the heartbreak of a marriage 20:35 that had been very damaged by, 20:37 because of this abortion decision. 20:39 And we always cry and pray when we hear these stories, 20:44 but I find myself smiling through the tears 20:47 because I know what the Lord has done for me. 20:50 And what's so wonderful is when you see these people, 20:53 this woman in particular. 20:55 The GYC event before the COVID was yearly 20:59 and it was so validating. 21:02 And what a blessing for us 21:04 to be able to see this woman come back 21:07 and instead of a broken woman 21:08 who wants to hide behind the curtain 21:10 to share her story, 21:11 she's now all smiles. 21:14 Is there still work to do in her relationship 21:16 with her husband? 21:17 Yes, but now 21:19 she has the courage and strength. 21:21 You know, if we don't take care 21:22 of our own personal unresolved issues, 21:26 how we can ever deal with other relational problems. 21:30 And that reminds me of another story. 21:33 One of the effects of an abortion 21:35 can be trouble bonding with future children. 21:40 And when you hold that baby 21:42 and your heart and soul wants to just cry out 21:46 with love and devotion to this baby, 21:47 but if you have an unresolved issue 21:49 of an abortion in the past, 21:51 you can feel guilt. 21:53 "I don't deserve to have this 21:54 because look at what I've done." 21:56 Or you can have the fear of, 21:58 "I might lose this child, God might punish me because, 22:02 you know, of what I've done." 22:04 So many times they separate themselves. 22:08 They don't allow themselves 22:09 to feel that love for this child. 22:12 And there was one particular meeting. 22:15 And I was picking up after the talk 22:18 and I looked over, 22:20 and on the front row was this young woman 22:22 and she was sobbing. 22:24 Antionette was already with her and that was her case. 22:27 She was post-abortive. 22:30 She had never dealt with those abortions, 22:33 and now she was feeling this terrible pain, 22:38 heartache 22:39 because she couldn't bond with her daughter. 22:41 And she could see 22:43 that her daughter loved her 22:44 and her daughter wanted this relationship 22:46 with her mother 22:47 but there was just an angst. 22:49 There was something there. 22:51 And again through tears and prayer 22:55 we see the redemptive restoration in women. 22:59 It was four years before we saw her 23:02 and when she came back to our booth after, 23:05 we both just cried. 23:07 It's a glory hallelujah moment. Yes. 23:10 Because she came back 23:11 and she was no longer in that pit of slime and mud. 23:16 She was out and her feet had been grounded. 23:19 The Lord had restored her and she was smiles 23:22 and her relationship with her daughter 23:25 was everything she wanted it to be. 23:27 So, yeah. 23:29 It's beautiful 23:30 to be able to see the transformation in others. 23:33 Yes, and how rewarding? 23:35 Yes, I love this story 23:37 because, well, these two stories. 23:40 Because when she says transformation, 23:42 she means transformation, 23:45 a shell of a person who is completely broken. 23:50 This young woman had first come up to the booth 23:52 and she wouldn't even make eye contact. 23:54 She was just looking down and said, 23:57 "Do you think the Lord can forgive a woman 23:59 who's had an abortion?" 24:01 Completely broken shell of a person 24:04 and when we saw her again, 24:05 I did not recognize her at first, 24:07 that's how completely bright her face was, 24:10 a complete transformation. 24:12 And we said and, you know, it's tears and hugs, 24:15 and we're so happy and it was just remarkable. 24:18 The other woman, that same initial approach, 24:23 where we have these fetal models. 24:27 These models that show different stages of gestation. 24:30 Yeah. 24:32 Three months, four months, five months 24:33 and she just came up 24:34 and started stroking one of the models. 24:37 And I approached her quietly and asked, 24:39 "Do you have any children?" 24:41 And she said, "I have three." 24:44 And then she stopped and said, "No, I have four." 24:48 Even then in that moment, 24:50 there was that struggle 24:51 to deal with the reality of what had happened. 24:55 And the change, 24:58 she came back that next year 25:00 and I said, "Dianne," 25:01 and we were so excited 25:03 and she said, 25:05 "This was for me, this is why I came. 25:08 My children wanted to come, but this was for me." 25:11 Complete, complete transformation, 25:14 it was amazing. 25:15 And if there are, Dianne was, 25:18 what I appreciated about that comment was 25:20 it is so much bigger than just the unborn. 25:23 If all we were doing was preserving the unborn, 25:25 that would be enough. 25:27 It would absolutely be enough. 25:29 But it's not only about the unborn. 25:32 There are one in four women 25:34 who will have an abortion by the time they reach age 45. 25:37 That's a quarter of the entire population of women 25:40 in the United States, 25:41 that's remarkable. 25:43 And for us to see this issue 25:45 through the lens of ministry and mission, 25:48 "Is there brokenness and restoration to happen?" 25:51 Absolutely. Yeah. 25:52 And she's such, Dianne alone. 25:54 Incredible testament to that. 25:56 I might add to that 25:57 that over half of these women claim to be Christian 26:01 that are going out and having them. 26:03 And we should take, you know, that should get our attention. 26:08 You know, one of the things 26:09 that I think has happened in our society 26:12 and you tell me 26:13 if you think this is correct or not. 26:16 When you said that you have a model 26:18 of the various stages of gestation, 26:21 that is so important. 26:22 Because one of the things that is kind of taught 26:25 is that it's just tissue, 26:27 it's not a baby, it's not viable, 26:32 it's just tissue. 26:33 But we know that, 26:36 yeah, but that tissue has a heartbeat. 26:40 And once that heart is beating, 26:43 I mean from the moment of conception, 26:45 it is a human being. 26:48 I love it because the Lord says, 26:49 "Before you were formed." 26:51 Yes. 26:52 Even when you were 26:53 just a few cells multiplying rapidly, you know. 26:56 And you didn't have the arms and legs yet, 26:58 before you were formed, I knew you. 27:01 It's a beautiful thing. 27:04 This is so inspiring 27:06 because I know there's so many women 27:08 who are battling with that. 27:11 Twenty percent, one in four 27:14 have had an abortion or will have. 27:17 I mean that's very, 27:19 that's those are very significant statistics. 27:23 And so, so many women and men, 27:25 I'm sure are battling with that whole idea. 27:29 Do you minister to men as well in Mafgia? 27:34 Well, we seek to minister to everyone. 27:36 Because we begin from the foundational point 27:40 that we're made in the image of the Lord, 27:42 we are all intrinsically valuable. 27:44 Right. 27:45 But, and as Dianne can testify to as well, 27:48 the way this affects men, it definitely does. 27:51 So when someone says, "That's just a women's issue." 27:54 That's a really gross mischaracterization 27:56 of how men are so affected by it. 27:59 Yeah, yeah. 28:00 Well, tell us about the providential meeting 28:02 that you had at a retreat? 28:04 Oh! Sure. 28:05 So I was at a, yes at a prayer retreat. 28:09 And had not even, 28:12 I had not been set on going 28:14 but was convinced to go by a friend. 28:18 When I got there, 28:19 the speaker was someone who we have 28:23 actually gone and spoken at his church 28:25 and I found out 28:26 he was not supposed to be there. 28:28 He was there providentially. 28:30 The original speaker had asked, 28:32 "Can you step in for me?" 28:33 I think he had become ill. 28:35 When he was up at the pulpit, 28:37 he makes a comment in passing about abortion, 28:40 about validating the reality of the trauma. 28:45 There was a woman in the audience 28:47 who heard him say that. 28:49 This man did not, he didn't give a sermon, 28:52 he didn't go on and on about the issue, 28:54 he simply was talking about validating the trauma, 28:57 validating the reality of the experience. 29:00 This woman heard his comment and she makes a beeline for him 29:04 after the session. 29:07 And he says, 29:08 "Do you know there's a woman here 29:10 who actually works in this area?" 29:14 So he connects the two of us. 29:16 She had an abortion when she was very young. 29:18 She at that point was in her late 60s 29:22 still wrestling, 29:24 "Can the Lord forgive me?" 29:27 If anyone asks, 29:29 "Is this an area of ministry for us?" 29:31 Yes. Why? 29:34 Because the evil one is seeking to destroy us 29:37 and he will use anything at his disposal to do it. 29:42 And so we talked, we prayed, 29:45 I shared the different information with her 29:48 and what was amazing is. 29:51 By the end of the conversation, 29:52 she was putting her head back and laughing. 29:55 You could see a hope. 29:57 The Lord gives us hope 29:59 and understanding that you are not alone, 30:02 you have not gone so far that you're beyond his reach. 30:06 There is hope for you. 30:07 It's transformative even that small understanding. 30:11 She hadn't gone to any particular retreat, 30:13 done a Bible study, nothing. 30:15 And it was so, 30:17 as I reflected back on it later, 30:19 it was so remarkable. 30:21 The Lord brought all of this together 30:23 as you said in the beginning for many reasons. 30:25 But in particular for this woman 30:28 because He wants to set her free, 30:30 because that is on the Lord's heart, 30:32 freedom and reconciliation back to Him. 30:35 And this pastor, he, who made this comment, 30:40 he has a personal conviction about this issue 30:43 and about the value of the unborn, 30:46 about the value of the woman in crisis. 30:49 And because he did, 30:50 it manifested itself in just a comment, 30:55 but this woman was primed to hear it. 30:57 She was hungry, she was ready 31:00 and the Lord orchestrated 31:01 this incredible experience for her 31:04 because this man also saw through ministry and mission. 31:08 And it wasn't a sermon, 31:10 it wasn't something long and drawn out, 31:12 a simple thing 31:13 but she was ready 31:14 and the Lord worked an incredible miracle. 31:16 That is amazing because again, what you said, 31:21 "The Lord just wants to set us free." 31:23 This is bondage, 31:25 it is such bondage 31:26 and, of course, the enemy 31:27 who is the accuser of the brethren, 31:29 just wants to make you feel 31:31 as though God can't forgive this. 31:34 But if God can't forgive it, then He's not omnipotent. 31:38 Because and He's all-powerful, we know that. 31:41 So He can forgive anything and everything 31:44 if we just ask Him. 31:46 But Satan wants to hold us in bondage. 31:48 Absolutely. 31:50 And I think it's important to reach people of all ages 31:54 with this message. 31:55 You know, children are becoming, 31:57 children are becoming sexually active so early. 32:01 And they have no clue about what they're doing 32:04 but they're hearing it in the music 32:05 and watching it on television 32:08 and going to movies and it's all around them. 32:11 So how are you reaching out to young people with Mafgia? 32:15 Well, you know, we academy age and younger. 32:20 And one of the things we have come up against 32:22 which just grieves me, 32:24 is that by talking about this 32:26 you're condoning sexual behavior. 32:28 So a lot of people 32:30 and we've actually been told this 32:31 that they're afraid to have us come, 32:34 because they are afraid of us condoning sexual behavior 32:39 which just makes me grieve. 32:42 We were given a chance to, excuse me, 32:46 speak at an academy. 32:49 And I love that age group 32:50 because they're just getting their footing as young adults, 32:54 stepping away a little bit from mom and dad 32:57 but like you just said, Yvonne, 32:59 it's so critical 33:01 because society is bombarding them 33:03 with the definition of what value is. 33:06 And all of a sudden it's the fashion, 33:09 it's the boyfriends, 33:10 how far I'll go with the boyfriend. 33:12 You know, the movies, 33:14 they totally exploit the sexual behavior 33:17 and the value in that. 33:19 So we're talking a group of young men and young ladies 33:23 who are especially vulnerable. 33:25 I love them though 33:26 because they're brutally honest. 33:29 And when you go in 33:30 and our focus from the get-go is our value 33:35 because I truly believe 33:36 at the core of reaching fashion, 33:39 all of this, boyfriends is seeking value. 33:42 They're trying to reestablish and get their own footing 33:45 and if we can target that age and younger 33:48 with establishing what intrinsic value means. 33:51 Yes. 33:52 It's not what you wear, 33:53 it's not how much your mom and dad makes, 33:55 it's not your grades, it's not how many boyfriends, 33:58 you know it's an intrinsic value. 34:00 And the questions we get from academy age young women. 34:05 We spoke to the ladies that those were phenomenal, 34:08 very honest and raw 34:10 and somebody needs to be there to be honest, 34:13 you know, give them answers but in the light of the gospel. 34:16 Absolutely. 34:18 That intrinsic value 34:19 and I believe that 34:20 when young people, 34:22 when they really understand their intrinsic value, 34:27 they won't seek out boyfriend or the fashion. 34:32 And it'll make an impression on the value of life, 34:35 their life, 34:36 how they behave, how they conduct themselves. 34:39 Young men how they treat the ladies, 34:41 the young ladies 34:43 how they behave themselves around the men, 34:46 you know. 34:47 And so, yes, it was a very good experience 34:50 and their questions very honest, 34:53 you know, whether it was about abortion, 34:57 pregnancy prevention, 34:59 you know, boyfriends, 35:01 just very raw honest questions that they have, 35:04 that we need as a church to not be afraid to answer them 35:09 and not ignore it or say, 35:10 "Well, if I answer that then I'm just as well saying, 35:14 yes, sex is okay." 35:16 It's not. 35:18 And so we were thrilled 35:20 and we're hoping that more and more academies 35:22 and all the schools 35:25 will not be afraid to address this. 35:27 You know, oh! 35:28 This is such an important point 35:31 because there are so many academies 35:34 and colleges 35:36 that avoid sexuality or the discussion of sexuality. 35:41 But it's rampant 35:43 and if we don't give a godly perspective, 35:46 a biblical perspective on it, 35:49 they're getting it, 35:50 the kids are getting it from the world 35:52 so if there's nothing to balance it with, 35:55 you know, what do we have? 35:56 No, what you guys, I'm so, I have to tell you, 35:59 I'm so proud of what you're doing 36:01 because and your passion for it just comes through 36:03 because you know the seriousness of it 36:06 and you know the times in which we live, 36:09 and you're trying to reclaim the discussion for Christ, 36:13 you know. 36:14 And keep, I mean, just give it balance 36:18 so that kids understand what this really is. 36:21 So I'm so glad. 36:23 Are you able to go into academies without 36:26 in general, 36:28 without too much resistance or... 36:31 Right. 36:33 It depends on the school. 36:34 We do have to be invited in. 36:36 And if there's that fear, 36:41 there certainly can be some hesitancy there 36:45 to address it. 36:46 One thing, we let them know in advance too. 36:48 And I think which helps break the ice 36:50 is that we're aware of these fears. 36:52 So if somebody on the faculty or the staff 36:55 if they have a concern, 36:56 we want them to freely ask us. 36:59 You know because it's not something 37:00 we haven't heard before. 37:02 Right. 37:03 And the same with parents. 37:04 You know, we encourage them to let them, 37:06 to let the parents know, 37:08 if they believe that's going to be a concern. 37:10 We're not trying to pull something 37:12 but we believe it's critical. 37:14 And then if they have a question 37:16 or a concern, 37:17 we can address that. 37:19 That is so good 37:21 And if I could to Dianne's point, 37:23 if we don't come to understand our value from our beginning, 37:29 we're not going to suddenly know 37:31 why we're valuable 37:33 when we become college age 20, 30, 40, 50. 37:37 That doesn't just suddenly spring up. 37:39 We're either grounded in Christ or we aren't. 37:42 And this getting that message in 37:45 from the beginning 37:47 but at least then grade school, junior high, high school, 37:50 it's critical and so important 37:53 to what we then carry through life. 37:55 I guess I have to add one more thing to that. 37:57 No, that's good. 37:58 Because at this one particular academy 38:01 that we were at, 38:03 the dean said," 38:05 Even if none of my girls got anything from this, 38:09 I got something from it." 38:10 And what she got was the value 38:16 because what Antionette, at whatever age, 38:19 if we've not understood there's no age limit. 38:23 She had just come to another revelation 38:26 as far as her own value. 38:28 You know, like you said, 38:29 "The enemy of souls wants to keep us bogged down, 38:34 you know, with regrets, shame." 38:36 He doesn't want it. 38:37 We know the battleground is the heart, 38:39 domain of the heart 38:40 and so he's going to keep do everything he can 38:43 to keep us from trusting God's mighty love. 38:46 Absolutely. And no age limit for everyone. 38:49 You know, I've interviewed some other ministries 38:53 that deal with sexuality 38:55 and there is this resistance by different schools 39:00 and things to not allow certain ministries to come in. 39:05 But yet again, 39:07 the kids are experimenting and doing all kinds of things 39:10 and they have to know what's right. 39:13 And so what you all are doing is just such a blessing. 39:17 What about the church? 39:18 What kind of support are you getting 39:20 from the church, the NAD etc? 39:23 Well, actually 39:25 we had the opportunity to speak 39:28 at the women's ministry convention in a year ago, 39:32 I believe. 39:35 We had just again encountered so many stories, 39:39 so many experiences. 39:41 And we had an exhibit booth set up there 39:46 and had the opportunity to present a seminar 39:49 and it was remarkable, the response again. 39:54 Especially if someone believes, 39:56 "Well, that might happen in other churches, 39:59 but not in my church. 40:00 That might happen in other schools, 40:01 but not in my school." 40:03 Actually, statistically, 40:05 it's happening everywhere and the Lord is saying, 40:08 "What are you going to do? 40:10 Are you going to be My hands and feet 40:12 to address this?" 40:13 So there was a particular woman 40:15 who stayed back to speak with us 40:18 and she was post-abortive. 40:20 She had had three abortions. 40:23 She had never told anyone 40:24 maybe one friend 40:26 and she was bogged down with guilt and shame. 40:31 And we had the opportunity to pray with her, 40:34 I mean to take her face in our hands and say, 40:37 "You are loved, 40:39 you are so brave for coming here today." 40:43 When we saw her the next day, she was beaming, beaming. 40:47 And I think the Lord, he looks at us and says, 40:51 "This is what I'm trying to do but if you don't do it, 40:56 who is going to do it? 40:57 You are the hands and feet of Christ. 40:59 If you aren't taking this message, 41:01 who is going to take it?" 41:03 And there's a verse in 1 Corinthians 41:07 and Paul is speaking to believers, 41:10 sinners who have become believers. 41:12 And he says, 41:13 "Such were some of you but you were washed, 41:16 you were sanctified." 41:17 That's what the Lord is saying to us 41:20 that maybe we don't have abortion 41:22 in our past, 41:24 but we too need to be washed. 41:26 So were we 41:27 and we can be washed and sanctified. 41:29 That's what He's saying 41:30 to every single post-abortive man and woman 41:33 and to the point that this is so much bigger. 41:37 When we're pointing people back to their value, 41:41 we point them to the cross. 41:42 We point them to creation. 41:44 We point them to Christ 41:46 and we invite them to worship Him 41:49 as their creator. 41:51 The Lord is saying, 41:52 "Worship Me as creator of all, not just creator of one." 41:57 Not just creator of you or creator of me, 41:59 but the creator of every single human being 42:02 He has brought into existence. 42:04 Will we worship Him that way, 42:06 and see that this issue 42:08 it's so much bigger than we've actually realized. 42:11 Absolutely. 42:12 That's beautiful 42:14 and that's the point of this 42:17 is to really look at the savior versus the sin. 42:23 And to acknowledge who He is 42:26 and take our eyes off of ourselves 42:28 because when we look at ourselves, 42:31 we never measure up. 42:33 But when we look at Him, 42:35 I mean 42:36 the story is all together different. 42:38 So yeah, we have to look at Him. 42:42 I like what you just said. 42:43 I want to share an exercise I do every morning. 42:46 And I include it in my Bible studies, 42:48 is every morning before our feet hits the ground, 42:51 we set our sights for the day. 42:53 And we can have one of three, self situation or our savior. 42:59 And if we look at ourselves, we're going to get derailed. 43:02 If we look at our situation, we're going to be derailed. 43:06 We have to keep our sights on our savior and I love that. 43:10 It's very simple little exercise, 43:12 and throughout the day 43:13 you might have to get yourself back home, 43:14 you know, 43:16 but keeping our sights on our Savior. 43:18 That is so beautiful. 43:20 You guys are just like so inspiring. 43:23 Praise the Lord. 43:24 He's done it. 43:26 It's such a blessing. 43:27 Tell us about some other experiences 43:29 that you've had with women 43:31 who have dealt with this issue 43:33 and are transformed or redeemed? 43:37 They feel redeemed? 43:39 You know, usually we're in this church setting 43:42 or in a school setting 43:44 or at one of our Christian conferences, 43:47 but I was given the opportunity to speak at a prison. 43:49 It was a correctional institute for women 43:52 and only had just a few minutes. 43:55 There were 500 young ladies who would come in. 43:57 I shouldn't say young, all ages. 44:00 Some of them were lifers. 44:02 And standing there and talking to these ladies, 44:05 I, my heart just broke. 44:08 Because they all have a story 44:10 and I'm not saying they were all post-abortive, 44:13 but so many times 44:14 an abortion decision 44:17 can shatter any self-worth you have, 44:20 drive you into drinking or risk taking 44:23 or just careless behavior. 44:25 You think, 44:26 "Well, I'm worthless 44:27 so why not behave like I'm worthless." 44:29 And so many of us get ourselves into trouble. 44:33 These ladies, 44:34 they were in a correctional institute 44:36 because of it. 44:37 Well, I told my story, gave my testimony 44:40 and I gave out probably about 500 of my little booklet 44:44 that tells my story and offered Bible studies. 44:48 Well, I heard back 44:49 and the first one I got back, it was like oh! 44:52 This is wonderful. 44:54 And the stepping point 44:56 for my Bible study is Psalms 40, 44:58 the first few verses. 45:00 Because David cried 45:01 and he waited and the Lord heard 45:04 and He lifted him up out of this miry pit. 45:07 And he didn't only lift him up out of the miry pit, 45:10 but he grounded him on solid ground, 45:12 on a solid rock himself. 45:15 And then from there, 45:16 he steadies him as he walks along 45:19 and I love that. 45:20 And then he gave him a new song. 45:23 A song that when others heard it, 45:26 they wanted what he had. 45:27 And that's how I look at my experience 45:30 because when women come to me 45:33 and they've had the experience that I've had 45:36 and yet they see me smiling and happy 45:38 and living a life 45:39 that I didn't think was possible ever, 45:42 they want it. 45:43 You know, they want what I have 45:44 and what a beautiful opportunity 45:47 from there to share the gospel, you know. 45:50 And it's beautiful, it's the Lord. 45:55 That is so great. 45:56 I think that inmates see your sincerity. 46:00 They can see, they can read people 46:03 and they can see if you are, 46:05 you know, you're transparent about your experience 46:08 and you share with them 46:10 and they're just so grateful that you're there. 46:12 It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, it is, it is. 46:15 And then to get letters 46:17 where they're sharing their story 46:19 and you see 46:20 how one bad decision led to another and to another 46:24 to the point where they feel like 46:25 there's no hope. 46:27 Oh! 46:28 But there's an endless resource of hope 46:32 and to give someone hope is to give them life, 46:35 just hope and a future. 46:37 Yes, beautiful. 46:39 That's beautiful. Amen. 46:41 What about you, Antionette? 46:44 When you go to churches and you're meeting people, 46:48 what kind of reaction are you getting from people 46:50 at the churches? 46:52 I think it really runs the gamut. 46:55 Something that we have come to see though is that 47:02 we have to make this choice individually. 47:05 So I may believe 47:07 very passionately and strongly, 47:09 but I can't believe for you. 47:10 You have to come to that place. 47:11 Dianne has, each one of us 47:13 has to come to that place individually. 47:16 And that applies to lay people, 47:17 it applies to pastors, 47:19 men, women, young, old, 47:20 every single person must come 47:23 to a decisive point on this issue. 47:27 Earlier this year, 47:28 we had an elder who reached out to us 47:33 about this issue. 47:35 Friends of his were going through a crisis pregnancy 47:38 where the doctors were saying the baby was deformed 47:43 and were pushing for abortion and the elder was saying, 47:46 "What should we do?" 47:48 But his comments were they said in essence, 47:53 if the child is already deformed 47:57 that sort of idea. 47:58 And that's not to condemn him at all. 48:01 It's that's where he was, he was wrestling. 48:06 So in our response, 48:10 we encouraged him about the value of the unborn, 48:14 about the value of this couple that were in crisis. 48:18 But also will we trust the Lord in this hard place? 48:24 Does our value change 48:27 because of a hard place, does it? 48:29 Or is God actually the creator of all? 48:32 Is that who He is or is He not? 48:34 It doesn't mean it's an easy situation 48:37 or an easy question, 48:38 but what was striking is that 48:41 this man is a leader in his church 48:44 and the Lord is asking him, 48:46 come to a decisive place on this issue. 48:49 For what we found 48:51 is just because someone is a part of our denomination, 48:55 just because someone says they're a Christian, 48:57 just because someone is a leader in their church 48:59 it doesn't mean 49:00 they've come to a place of decision. 49:02 And the Lord is saying, 49:04 "It's time to decide 49:06 because if you're going to worship Me as creator, 49:08 you worship Me as creator of everyone." 49:12 That's a great point, you know. 49:15 Can we worship in the hard place? 49:19 That's a great question. 49:21 Wow! Yeah. 49:23 That's really it, that's what you're saying. 49:25 Yeah. 49:26 Can we worship God in the hard places? 49:29 You know, we can worship Him when things are great, 49:32 but can we worship Him in the hard places? 49:34 So that's really important. 49:35 So tell us briefly, 49:38 a woman comes to Mafgia 49:40 and she's struggling with the whole abortion issue. 49:45 What is the process involved 49:47 when someone comes there to a ministry? 49:52 The focus immediately has to be on our intrinsic value, 49:57 who we are. 49:58 You establish that 50:00 because it's not some opinion of this person or that person, 50:04 it's not some well-rehearsed argument 50:07 and we're not trying to dictate conscience 50:10 or, you know, coerce someone. 50:13 It goes back to establishing our value. 50:16 And if you give that woman who is in a crisis 50:20 the time of day, 50:21 to listen and to show you her that you value her. 50:27 Just that feeling safe, giving them a safe place. 50:31 And then, basically sharing 50:34 why we believe not only is she valued, 50:37 but her unborn child 50:39 that she's struggling with on abortion. 50:41 You know, it's just being honest. 50:44 Being honest doesn't mean 50:45 you have to always have the answer. 50:48 You know, being honest is being willing 50:50 to cry and pray 50:52 and, Lord, 50:54 I don't know why this is happening, you know, 50:57 but if He's our God, He's our God. 51:00 You know, 51:01 we tell people to trust God though the heavens fall. 51:05 Well, this is a prime example of that. 51:08 The heavens are falling around this young woman, 51:11 how can I show her that I trust God? 51:14 And I love Antionette's story 51:16 because they not only came up beside her mother and said, 51:20 "We can't support you having an abortion." 51:23 They said, "But we will help you." 51:26 And I love that, 51:28 that's where 51:29 the rubber meets the road so to speak. 51:31 You know, 51:32 that's where we're really gonna 51:34 show this young woman her value. 51:36 It's not just a matter of saying, 51:37 "Don't do that, 51:39 that's wrong and then walking away, 51:40 I'll pray for you." 51:41 It's saying, 51:43 "I'm willing to get into the trenches with you." 51:44 Yes. 51:46 That's where you show the value 51:49 is being able to wrestle and struggle, 51:51 and pray and cry 51:52 and I don't know why this is happening, 51:54 but I know our God is bigger than this. 51:56 Yes, yes. 51:58 And to Dianne's point quickly is that 52:01 in order to get to that place, 52:03 we have to believe in the value of the unborn. 52:05 We have to be convinced 52:07 that the woman deserves better than abortion. 52:09 Then resources will come, then people will jump in. 52:13 And so the Lord is saying, 52:15 "Hop on," 52:16 because He's moving forward. 52:17 Yes. It's protecting her dignity. 52:20 Yes. 52:21 What you've said today is so important 52:23 and we're going to come back after this news break 52:26 and hear some final thoughts from you. |
Revised 2021-01-15