As you're well aware,
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we're living in
unprecedented times.
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Join us now for
today's special program.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, and
welcome to 3ABN Today.
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I'm Yvonne Shelton
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and I am so
excited about the program
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that we have for you today,
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because it is one
of meaning and purpose
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and we try to bring you programs
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that are going to
inspire you and encourage you.
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And that is what
this one is about today.
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I'd like to open
with a scripture,
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Matthew 11:28,
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"Come to me..."
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This is from the
New King James Version.
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"Come to Me all you who
labor and are heavy laden
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and I will give you rest.
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Take My yoke upon
you and learn from Me,
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for I am gentle
and lowly in heart
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and you will find
rest for your souls,
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for My yoke is easy
and My burden is light."
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Many of you are struggling
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under the yoke of emotional pain
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for whatever reason,
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and today we're
going to talk about
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a specific area of
emotional challenge.
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So thank you for being with us,
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let me introduce
our guests to you.
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We have Antionette Duck
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and they're both
from Mafgia Ministries.
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Antionette is the founder
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of and a speaker
from Mafgia Ministries.
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And then, Diane Wagner
and she is a co-speaker.
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So after our
music from Pam Lister,
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we are going to
talk to our guests
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and find out
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what is Mafgia
Ministry is all about.
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Once upon His back He knew
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This was the
beginning Of the end
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With every fragile Step he grew
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More and more
determined To finish it
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The world saw a man
With a tree on His back
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And they laughed
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But God saw His Son who He loved
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Carry more than that
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No, He didn't
just carry the cross
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He carried me
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He didn't just count the cost
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He counted me
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So much has been said
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Of what happened at Calvary
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Oh but I believe
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He didn't just carry the cross
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He carried me
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Mercy held my broken heart
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Close against His shoulders
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As He wept
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Love beyond a moment scarred
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The hands and
feet Of one I never met
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The world saw a man die
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A martyr between two thieves
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God saw a lamb bridge
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The gap of eternity
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No, He didn't
just carry the cross
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He carried me.
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He didn't just count the cost
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He counted me
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So much has been said
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Of what happened at Calvary
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Oh but I believe
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He didn't just carry the cross
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He carried me
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So much has been said
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Of what happened at Calvary
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Oh but I believe
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He didn't just carry the cross
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No, He didn't
just carry the cross
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No, He didn't
just carry the cross
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He carried me
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He carried me
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Thank you, Pam.
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He didn't just carry
the cross, He carried me.
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And I know that
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all of us can think
about times in our lives
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where we were
carried by the Lord.
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We couldn't even move ourselves,
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He carried us.
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So thank you Pam
for that beautiful song
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and we want to
welcome our guests again.
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Antionette Duck and
Diane Wagner from Mafgia.
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I pronounced it
wrong in the beginning.
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It's Mafgia Ministries.
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So welcome. Thank you.
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Tell us about
Mafgia, what is it?
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Mafgia, it's a Hebrew
word and it means intercessor.
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As a ministry,
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we are committed to
interceding for the sanctity,
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the value of human life
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from its very
beginning until natural death.
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But we're also
committed to interceding
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for
reconciliation and redemption
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for women and for men
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who have
experienced an abortion.
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We really believe that
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the message of
the sanctity of life
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is the gospel.
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If you think of
the verse John 3:16,
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it says that,
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"God so loved the world
that He gave His only Son
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that whosoever believes
in Him should not perish,
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but have everlasting life."
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We believe that we are
made in the image of the Lord
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and that our value was
established at creation
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and it was
fortified at the cross.
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The Lord loved us so much
that He gave His Son for us.
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He has established our value.
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In the case though, if
someone has had an abortion,
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if they've made that decision,
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they have to remember
the rest of the verse.
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He gave His only Son
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so that whoever believes
in Him should not perish,
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but have everlasting life.
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The message of
this ministry is that
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you are intrinsically valuable.
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Your unborn child was
intrinsically valuable,
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but if you have done
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something that can't be
undone through abortion,
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the Lord is waiting
to offer freedom and hope
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and complete restoration.
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And what an
important message that is.
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Because there are so many women
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who are
carrying around the guilt
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of having done that
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and thinking,
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"What did I do?
And how can I undo it?
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And the Lord must not forgive me
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and it's unforgivable."
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There's nothing
that's unforgivable.
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Yes.
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And so what a beautiful,
what a beautiful message.
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What made you decide
to found this ministry?
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Well, I was not
raised Adventist.
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I was actually
raised Southern Baptist.
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I myself was
rescued from abortion.
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There were people
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who firmly believed in my value,
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firmly believed in
the value of my mother.
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And for our sakes,
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they went to very hard
places, uncomfortable places
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to intercede for us.
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And this issue
has been something
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that has just been
a part of our lives
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from my very beginning.
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When I
encountered the Sabbath truth,
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that was just
incredible and wonderful for me.
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And eventually,
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I came into the
Adventist Church.
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When I did there,
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I experienced,
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encountered a certain silence
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and
inconsistencies on this issue.
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And I was
encouraged, you know what?
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Do something about it.
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And so the Mafgia
Ministry was born out of that
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and then I prayed and said,
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"Lord, send me a
woman who is post-abortive,
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who's experienced Your healing."
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And Dianne Wagner. Wow!
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And tell us, Dianne,
how did you guys connect?
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It's phenomenal because I
was taking my family to GYC,
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which is the
Generation of Youth for Christ,
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a Christian camp meeting
sort of for young people.
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And Antionette
had a booth there.
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And because of my past
because I was post-abortive,
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because of encounters I had had,
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I avoided the pro-life,
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right to life people
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because I had had been hurt.
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They seem to value the
unborn more than they did me.
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And Antionette
just changed my life
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and when I met her,
that's when I began my journey
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because I knew the
Lord had forgiven me.
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I already had the experience
of confession and repentance,
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but there was still a
lot of unresolved issues
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and meeting her was
like a breath of fresh air
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is what I always say
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because it gave me
the courage to pursue.
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I want more, I want
everything the Lord has.
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And I know the
Lord put us together.
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Her prayers were answered,
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but my silent
prayers were answered,
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prayers I didn't
even know existed.
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So yeah.
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Let's unpack that a little bit
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the whole idea that
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there are some
who value the unborn
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more than the
mother of the unborn.
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Can you unpack
that a little bit?
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Not necessarily your
experience but just in general?
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I don't question the intention
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because the unborn is vulnerable
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and it has value.
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So I don't want to say that.
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I would say more misguided
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because a woman
doesn't go and have an abortion
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like she goes to
an ice cream parlor
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to pick out,
you know, ice cream.
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It's very traumatic.
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It's a very bad
place, a very scary place.
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And I think for years
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the focus was so
much on that unborn child
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that the mother in
crisis was trampled on.
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I'll give you a quick example.
00:13:13.56\00:13:15.42
I was visiting a church
with some friends of mine.
00:13:15.46\00:13:18.56
And I would have left
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if I had known what the
subject was for the day,
00:13:20.46\00:13:22.50
but it was on abortion.
00:13:22.53\00:13:24.37
And he was the real loud
00:13:24.40\00:13:25.77
Bible thumping kind of preacher.
00:13:25.80\00:13:28.40
And finally he
came to the conclusion,
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loud conclusion
00:13:31.21\00:13:32.71
that the Lord would not
and could not forgive a woman
00:13:32.74\00:13:36.21
who'd had an abortion.
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You know the focus
was so much on the sin
00:13:38.15\00:13:40.78
instead of the Savior.
00:13:40.82\00:13:42.15
Yes.
00:13:42.18\00:13:43.52
And so because of
different experiences like that,
00:13:43.55\00:13:46.89
I just came back.
00:13:46.92\00:13:49.46
And I love what
Antionette focused on,
00:13:49.49\00:13:51.96
the value, the intrinsic value
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not only of that unborn child,
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but of the woman or
the father of that baby
00:13:57.17\00:13:59.87
and even the parents.
00:13:59.90\00:14:01.70
The parents sometimes
00:14:01.74\00:14:03.10
will encourage
their daughter to abort
00:14:03.14\00:14:05.57
and it's not that
00:14:05.61\00:14:06.94
they're
necessarily trying to be bad.
00:14:06.98\00:14:09.78
They truly are thinking
this is the best answer.
00:14:09.81\00:14:12.98
And because we've been
so silent on this issue
00:14:13.01\00:14:16.38
and have not had a place
00:14:16.42\00:14:18.19
where people can go and hash out
00:14:18.22\00:14:20.12
the raw hard questions.
00:14:20.16\00:14:22.39
They just,
00:14:22.42\00:14:23.79
they get afraid and
they go for an answer
00:14:23.83\00:14:26.46
even if it's not
the right answer.
00:14:26.49\00:14:29.20
That's a beautiful response
especially focusing on the sin
00:14:29.23\00:14:34.60
and not the Savior.
00:14:34.64\00:14:35.97
That to me that is key.
00:14:36.00\00:14:38.84
Because the Savior is the
one who takes away the sin,
00:14:38.87\00:14:44.41
who restores us
and replenishes us.
00:14:44.45\00:14:46.72
So yes.
00:14:46.75\00:14:48.42
Yes, that's beautiful.
00:14:48.45\00:14:50.35
So tell us a bit
00:14:50.39\00:14:52.42
about the theme
of your ministry?
00:14:52.45\00:14:57.89
Sure.
00:14:57.93\00:14:59.26
Well, certainly
for this interview,
00:14:59.29\00:15:03.06
we really wanted to focus
00:15:03.10\00:15:04.43
on the idea of
ministry and mission.
00:15:04.47\00:15:11.21
And it kind of leads
me into the first story
00:15:11.24\00:15:14.28
we wanted to touch on.
00:15:14.31\00:15:16.24
Because when we see this issue
00:15:16.28\00:15:18.95
through the lens of
ministry and mission,
00:15:18.98\00:15:21.35
it changes everything.
00:15:21.38\00:15:23.75
It's not simply
this political thing
00:15:23.79\00:15:26.39
that can't be touched
00:15:26.42\00:15:27.76
or it's not simply about
that's right and this is wrong.
00:15:27.79\00:15:30.63
It becomes a way of
ministering the gospel
00:15:30.66\00:15:34.60
which is what the
Lord has called us to do.
00:15:34.63\00:15:37.80
There was a young
pastor back in 1981.
00:15:37.83\00:15:40.87
His name is Andy Merritt.
00:15:40.90\00:15:44.11
He became a believer in 1970,
00:15:44.14\00:15:48.34
September 20th 1970.
00:15:48.38\00:15:49.98
And the Lord
really impressed him
00:15:50.01\00:15:52.08
to get involved in
the abortion issue.
00:15:52.11\00:15:55.52
He began the first church
based crisis pregnancy center
00:15:55.55\00:15:59.55
in the United
States back in 1981.
00:15:59.59\00:16:02.59
A place that would
be a refuge for women
00:16:02.62\00:16:05.83
who were in crisis,
00:16:05.86\00:16:07.36
where they could
be ministered to,
00:16:07.40\00:16:08.86
but also where they
could learn about the value
00:16:08.90\00:16:12.53
of their unborn child.
00:16:12.57\00:16:14.97
At that same time,
00:16:15.00\00:16:16.40
my mother believed
that she was pregnant.
00:16:16.44\00:16:19.67
She began to
experience morning sickness.
00:16:19.71\00:16:21.74
He started this
center out of a church,
00:16:21.78\00:16:24.95
Edgewood Baptist
Church in Columbus, Georgia.
00:16:24.98\00:16:27.25
And at that same time,
00:16:27.28\00:16:28.62
my mother was in an
extremely abusive marriage
00:16:28.65\00:16:31.62
and began to
experience morning sickness
00:16:31.65\00:16:34.06
and she was living
in Columbus, Georgia.
00:16:34.09\00:16:36.86
And the Lord, I
say, but the Lord
00:16:36.89\00:16:42.93
because she had decided
00:16:42.96\00:16:44.30
she was going to
have an abortion.
00:16:44.33\00:16:45.67
She wasn't
going to bring a child
00:16:45.70\00:16:47.04
into this situation,
00:16:47.07\00:16:48.80
into that marriage.
00:16:48.84\00:16:50.94
But the Lord had raised up
00:16:50.97\00:16:53.11
a refuge, a beacon of
light through Andy Merritt
00:16:53.14\00:16:57.01
and through that church.
00:16:57.05\00:16:59.25
She would go on to meet Andy.
00:16:59.28\00:17:01.32
She would visit the center
00:17:01.35\00:17:04.05
and she would see
that the unborn was alive
00:17:04.09\00:17:07.86
with fingers and
toes and hands and feet.
00:17:07.89\00:17:09.92
She had no idea that
her unborn child was alive
00:17:09.96\00:17:13.09
and she made the
very brave choice
00:17:13.13\00:17:16.23
to face the
future with her child,
00:17:16.26\00:17:18.73
to face it with me.
00:17:18.77\00:17:21.37
What was
remarkable about that is
00:17:21.40\00:17:23.41
after I was born,
00:17:23.44\00:17:25.01
Andy Merritt continued
to pour into our lives,
00:17:25.04\00:17:27.74
the church continued
to pour into our lives.
00:17:27.78\00:17:30.75
It wasn't simply
a matter of saying,
00:17:30.78\00:17:32.78
"Don't have the abortion."
00:17:32.81\00:17:34.45
After she was a mother,
00:17:34.48\00:17:36.22
still in the midst of crisis,
00:17:36.25\00:17:38.62
the church continued to
walk alongside her and us
00:17:38.65\00:17:41.96
in that crisis.
00:17:41.99\00:17:43.73
And what Andy did,
00:17:43.76\00:17:47.06
he had chosen to see this issue
00:17:47.10\00:17:50.20
through the lens of
ministry and mission.
00:17:50.23\00:17:53.13
Because he spent,
00:17:53.17\00:17:54.70
it wasn't just about the unborn,
00:17:54.74\00:17:57.51
he wanted to preserve my mother,
00:17:57.54\00:17:59.21
he wanted to preserve
her spiritual soundness.
00:17:59.24\00:18:02.08
And if you think about
what the Lord accomplished,
00:18:02.11\00:18:07.42
he through this
man, he saved my life,
00:18:07.45\00:18:11.62
he preserved my mother.
00:18:11.65\00:18:12.99
And he had no idea that
all of these years later
00:18:13.02\00:18:15.42
I would meet Dianne.
00:18:15.46\00:18:16.83
Dianne who then would go
00:18:16.86\00:18:18.19
on this
incredibly courageous journey
00:18:18.23\00:18:20.60
of her own healing from
her abortion experiences.
00:18:20.63\00:18:23.77
And now Dianne is ministering
00:18:23.80\00:18:25.90
to person after
person after person,
00:18:25.93\00:18:28.77
all because one man said,
00:18:28.80\00:18:30.94
"I'm going to view this
through ministry and mission."
00:18:30.97\00:18:32.87
Yes.
00:18:32.91\00:18:34.24
Isn't that what the
Lord has called us to do?
00:18:34.28\00:18:36.08
Absolutely, and
look at what God did.
00:18:36.11\00:18:38.08
I mean, not only did
he preserve your life,
00:18:38.11\00:18:40.95
but gave you a mission
00:18:40.98\00:18:42.38
to help others
00:18:42.42\00:18:44.02
to preserve
their children's lives.
00:18:44.05\00:18:46.32
I mean, it's, man, God...
00:18:46.35\00:18:49.12
One of the things
00:18:49.16\00:18:50.49
that's so amazing
to me about God is that
00:18:50.53\00:18:52.09
He accomplishes so
many things with one move.
00:18:52.13\00:18:55.06
You know, He doesn't just
do one move and that's it.
00:18:55.10\00:18:57.67
It stands in isolation.
00:18:57.70\00:18:59.03
No, that one move
accomplishes multiple things
00:18:59.07\00:19:02.27
and that's what He did with you.
00:19:02.30\00:19:04.21
And that's just such a...
00:19:04.24\00:19:05.64
It's really,
really beautiful. Amen.
00:19:05.67\00:19:07.84
Really beautiful.
00:19:07.88\00:19:09.41
You have a story
about transformation,
00:19:09.44\00:19:11.61
tell us about that?
00:19:11.65\00:19:13.08
Well, you know
after meeting Antionette,
00:19:13.11\00:19:15.55
I started doing
research into abortion
00:19:15.58\00:19:18.22
and the effect of an abortion,
00:19:18.25\00:19:20.09
what it does to
a woman or a man.
00:19:20.12\00:19:22.56
And as I read, I
identified myself.
00:19:22.59\00:19:25.93
It almost it's
like, it validated me,
00:19:25.96\00:19:29.16
"That's why I feel this way,
00:19:29.20\00:19:30.60
that's why I'm
having this problem."
00:19:30.63\00:19:32.40
But being
involved with this ministry
00:19:32.43\00:19:34.17
has been wonderful
00:19:34.20\00:19:35.54
because we've not only seen
a transformation in ourselves,
00:19:35.57\00:19:39.47
but we've been given
the beautiful privilege
00:19:39.51\00:19:42.14
to see the
transformation in other people.
00:19:42.18\00:19:46.82
The impact of abortion
is so much more broad spread
00:19:46.85\00:19:50.99
than what we think.
00:19:51.02\00:19:52.42
You know, I read once
like 12% of relationships
00:19:52.45\00:19:56.69
married or not
00:19:56.73\00:19:58.23
survive an abortion experience
00:19:58.26\00:20:00.73
because it's so volatile
and so it's a silent damage.
00:20:00.76\00:20:04.83
And I'm reminding of
a woman we met at GYC
00:20:04.87\00:20:08.50
and she had brought her family.
00:20:08.54\00:20:11.41
The intent was that
they could be blessed,
00:20:11.44\00:20:13.91
they could be
drawn closer to the Lord,
00:20:13.94\00:20:16.31
we'll come to find out.
00:20:16.34\00:20:18.18
They all passed our booth,
00:20:18.21\00:20:20.12
but she came
back privately later.
00:20:20.15\00:20:22.68
And she shared her
abortion experience
00:20:22.72\00:20:26.52
and the heartbreak
00:20:26.55\00:20:28.72
this woman had
felt and put up with.
00:20:28.76\00:20:31.03
And also the
heartbreak of a marriage
00:20:31.06\00:20:35.03
that had been very damaged by,
00:20:35.06\00:20:37.20
because of this
abortion decision.
00:20:37.23\00:20:39.90
And we always cry and pray
when we hear these stories,
00:20:39.93\00:20:44.34
but I find myself
smiling through the tears
00:20:44.37\00:20:47.24
because I know what
the Lord has done for me.
00:20:47.28\00:20:50.35
And what's so wonderful
is when you see these people,
00:20:50.38\00:20:53.25
this woman in particular.
00:20:53.28\00:20:55.02
The GYC event
before the COVID was yearly
00:20:55.05\00:20:59.45
and it was so validating.
00:20:59.49\00:21:02.46
And what a blessing for us
00:21:02.49\00:21:04.19
to be able to see
this woman come back
00:21:04.23\00:21:06.96
and instead of a broken woman
00:21:07.00\00:21:08.66
who wants to hide
behind the curtain
00:21:08.70\00:21:10.50
to share her story,
00:21:10.53\00:21:11.93
she's now all smiles.
00:21:11.97\00:21:14.34
Is there still work
to do in her relationship
00:21:14.37\00:21:16.30
with her husband?
00:21:16.34\00:21:17.67
Yes, but now
00:21:17.71\00:21:19.04
she has the
courage and strength.
00:21:19.07\00:21:21.14
You know, if we don't take care
00:21:21.18\00:21:22.74
of our own
personal unresolved issues,
00:21:22.78\00:21:26.68
how we can ever deal with
other relational problems.
00:21:26.72\00:21:30.89
And that reminds
me of another story.
00:21:30.92\00:21:33.69
One of the
effects of an abortion
00:21:33.72\00:21:35.42
can be trouble
bonding with future children.
00:21:35.46\00:21:40.30
And when you hold that baby
00:21:40.33\00:21:42.76
and your heart and
soul wants to just cry out
00:21:42.80\00:21:46.07
with love and
devotion to this baby,
00:21:46.10\00:21:47.77
but if you have
an unresolved issue
00:21:47.80\00:21:49.74
of an abortion in the past,
00:21:49.77\00:21:51.61
you can feel guilt.
00:21:51.64\00:21:53.31
"I don't deserve to have this
00:21:53.34\00:21:54.68
because look at what I've done."
00:21:54.71\00:21:56.34
Or you can have the fear of,
00:21:56.38\00:21:58.18
"I might lose this child,
God might punish me because,
00:21:58.21\00:22:02.32
you know, of what I've done."
00:22:02.35\00:22:04.15
So many times they
separate themselves.
00:22:04.19\00:22:08.39
They don't allow themselves
00:22:08.42\00:22:09.86
to feel that
love for this child.
00:22:09.89\00:22:12.43
And there was one
particular meeting.
00:22:12.46\00:22:15.16
And I was
picking up after the talk
00:22:15.20\00:22:18.87
and I looked over,
00:22:18.90\00:22:20.24
and on the front
row was this young woman
00:22:20.27\00:22:22.60
and she was sobbing.
00:22:22.64\00:22:23.97
Antionette was already
with her and that was her case.
00:22:24.01\00:22:27.38
She was post-abortive.
00:22:27.41\00:22:30.55
She had never dealt
with those abortions,
00:22:30.58\00:22:33.68
and now she was
feeling this terrible pain,
00:22:33.72\00:22:38.35
heartache
00:22:38.39\00:22:39.72
because she couldn't
bond with her daughter.
00:22:39.75\00:22:41.76
And she could see
00:22:41.79\00:22:43.12
that her daughter loved her
00:22:43.16\00:22:44.49
and her daughter
wanted this relationship
00:22:44.53\00:22:46.49
with her mother
00:22:46.53\00:22:47.86
but there was just an angst.
00:22:47.90\00:22:49.50
There was something there.
00:22:49.53\00:22:51.40
And again
through tears and prayer
00:22:51.43\00:22:55.60
we see the
redemptive restoration in women.
00:22:55.64\00:22:59.91
It was four
years before we saw her
00:22:59.94\00:23:02.74
and when she came
back to our booth after,
00:23:02.78\00:23:04.98
we both just cried.
00:23:05.01\00:23:07.62
It's a glory
hallelujah moment. Yes.
00:23:07.65\00:23:10.29
Because she came back
00:23:10.32\00:23:11.72
and she was no longer in
that pit of slime and mud.
00:23:11.75\00:23:16.62
She was out and her
feet had been grounded.
00:23:16.66\00:23:19.73
The Lord had restored
her and she was smiles
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.76
and her
relationship with her daughter
00:23:22.80\00:23:25.33
was everything
she wanted it to be.
00:23:25.37\00:23:27.74
So, yeah.
00:23:27.77\00:23:29.37
It's beautiful
00:23:29.40\00:23:30.74
to be able to see the
transformation in others.
00:23:30.77\00:23:33.48
Yes, and how rewarding?
00:23:33.51\00:23:35.44
Yes, I love this story
00:23:35.48\00:23:37.78
because, well,
these two stories.
00:23:37.81\00:23:40.75
Because when she
says transformation,
00:23:40.78\00:23:42.92
she means transformation,
00:23:42.95\00:23:45.59
a shell of a person
who is completely broken.
00:23:45.62\00:23:50.39
This young woman had
first come up to the booth
00:23:50.43\00:23:52.49
and she wouldn't
even make eye contact.
00:23:52.53\00:23:54.93
She was just
looking down and said,
00:23:54.96\00:23:57.37
"Do you think the
Lord can forgive a woman
00:23:57.40\00:23:59.67
who's had an abortion?"
00:23:59.70\00:24:01.27
Completely
broken shell of a person
00:24:01.30\00:24:04.07
and when we saw her again,
00:24:04.11\00:24:05.71
I did not
recognize her at first,
00:24:05.74\00:24:07.48
that's how
completely bright her face was,
00:24:07.51\00:24:10.58
a complete transformation.
00:24:10.61\00:24:12.31
And we said and, you
know, it's tears and hugs,
00:24:12.35\00:24:15.38
and we're so happy and
it was just remarkable.
00:24:15.42\00:24:18.32
The other woman, that
same initial approach,
00:24:18.35\00:24:23.73
where we have
these fetal models.
00:24:23.76\00:24:27.16
These models that show
different stages of gestation.
00:24:27.20\00:24:30.67
Yeah.
00:24:30.70\00:24:32.03
Three months, four
months, five months
00:24:32.07\00:24:33.40
and she just came up
00:24:33.44\00:24:34.77
and started
stroking one of the models.
00:24:34.80\00:24:37.34
And I approached
her quietly and asked,
00:24:37.37\00:24:39.71
"Do you have any children?"
00:24:39.74\00:24:41.51
And she said, "I have three."
00:24:41.54\00:24:44.08
And then she stopped
and said, "No, I have four."
00:24:44.11\00:24:47.98
Even then in that moment,
00:24:48.02\00:24:50.22
there was that struggle
00:24:50.25\00:24:51.92
to deal with the
reality of what had happened.
00:24:51.95\00:24:55.59
And the change,
00:24:55.62\00:24:58.03
she came back that next year
00:24:58.06\00:25:00.23
and I said, "Dianne,"
00:25:00.26\00:25:01.66
and we were so excited
00:25:01.70\00:25:03.60
and she said,
00:25:03.63\00:25:04.97
"This was for me,
this is why I came.
00:25:05.00\00:25:07.97
My children wanted to
come, but this was for me."
00:25:08.00\00:25:11.57
Complete,
complete transformation,
00:25:11.61\00:25:14.08
it was amazing.
00:25:14.11\00:25:15.44
And if there are, Dianne was,
00:25:15.48\00:25:18.35
what I appreciated
about that comment was
00:25:18.38\00:25:20.55
it is so much bigger
than just the unborn.
00:25:20.58\00:25:23.18
If all we were doing
was preserving the unborn,
00:25:23.22\00:25:25.92
that would be enough.
00:25:25.95\00:25:27.29
It would absolutely be enough.
00:25:27.32\00:25:29.22
But it's not
only about the unborn.
00:25:29.26\00:25:32.39
There are one in four women
00:25:32.43\00:25:34.06
who will have an abortion
by the time they reach age 45.
00:25:34.10\00:25:36.97
That's a quarter of the
entire population of women
00:25:37.00\00:25:40.54
in the United States,
00:25:40.57\00:25:41.94
that's remarkable.
00:25:41.97\00:25:43.37
And for us to see this issue
00:25:43.41\00:25:45.27
through the lens of
ministry and mission,
00:25:45.31\00:25:48.01
"Is there brokenness
and restoration to happen?"
00:25:48.04\00:25:51.05
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:25:51.08\00:25:52.41
And she's such, Dianne alone.
00:25:52.45\00:25:54.18
Incredible testament to that.
00:25:54.22\00:25:56.08
I might add to that
00:25:56.12\00:25:57.45
that over half of these
women claim to be Christian
00:25:57.49\00:26:01.39
that are going
out and having them.
00:26:01.42\00:26:03.32
And we should take, you know,
that should get our attention.
00:26:03.36\00:26:08.23
You know, one of the things
00:26:08.26\00:26:09.60
that I think has
happened in our society
00:26:09.63\00:26:12.00
and you tell me
00:26:12.03\00:26:13.37
if you think this
is correct or not.
00:26:13.40\00:26:16.27
When you said
that you have a model
00:26:16.30\00:26:18.17
of the various
stages of gestation,
00:26:18.21\00:26:21.01
that is so important.
00:26:21.04\00:26:22.38
Because one of the
things that is kind of taught
00:26:22.41\00:26:25.35
is that it's just tissue,
00:26:25.38\00:26:27.85
it's not a
baby, it's not viable,
00:26:27.88\00:26:32.09
it's just tissue.
00:26:32.12\00:26:33.89
But we know that,
00:26:33.92\00:26:36.09
yeah, but that
tissue has a heartbeat.
00:26:36.12\00:26:40.93
And once that heart is beating,
00:26:40.96\00:26:43.30
I mean from the
moment of conception,
00:26:43.33\00:26:45.43
it is a human being.
00:26:45.47\00:26:48.14
I love it because the Lord says,
00:26:48.17\00:26:49.84
"Before you were formed."
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.21
Yes.
00:26:51.24\00:26:52.57
Even when you were
00:26:52.61\00:26:53.94
just a few cells
multiplying rapidly, you know.
00:26:53.98\00:26:56.18
And you didn't have
the arms and legs yet,
00:26:56.21\00:26:58.31
before you were
formed, I knew you.
00:26:58.35\00:27:01.85
It's a beautiful thing.
00:27:01.88\00:27:04.79
This is so inspiring
00:27:04.82\00:27:06.19
because I know
there's so many women
00:27:06.22\00:27:08.46
who are battling with that.
00:27:08.49\00:27:11.23
Twenty percent, one in four
00:27:11.26\00:27:13.96
have had an
abortion or will have.
00:27:14.00\00:27:17.47
I mean that's very,
00:27:17.50\00:27:19.07
that's those are very
significant statistics.
00:27:19.10\00:27:22.97
And so, so many women and men,
00:27:23.00\00:27:25.64
I'm sure are
battling with that whole idea.
00:27:25.67\00:27:29.68
Do you minister to
men as well in Mafgia?
00:27:29.71\00:27:34.42
Well, we seek to
minister to everyone.
00:27:34.45\00:27:36.45
Because we begin from
the foundational point
00:27:36.48\00:27:40.59
that we're made in
the image of the Lord,
00:27:40.62\00:27:42.16
we are all
intrinsically valuable.
00:27:42.19\00:27:44.19
Right.
00:27:44.23\00:27:45.56
But, and as Dianne
can testify to as well,
00:27:45.59\00:27:48.00
the way this affects
men, it definitely does.
00:27:48.03\00:27:51.23
So when someone says,
"That's just a women's issue."
00:27:51.27\00:27:54.17
That's a really
gross mischaracterization
00:27:54.20\00:27:56.67
of how men are
so affected by it.
00:27:56.71\00:27:58.97
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:59.01\00:28:00.41
Well, tell us about
the providential meeting
00:28:00.44\00:28:02.84
that you had at a retreat?
00:28:02.88\00:28:04.31
Oh! Sure.
00:28:04.35\00:28:05.81
So I was at a, yes
at a prayer retreat.
00:28:05.85\00:28:09.88
And had not even,
00:28:09.92\00:28:12.42
I had not been set on going
00:28:12.45\00:28:14.96
but was convinced
to go by a friend.
00:28:14.99\00:28:18.03
When I got there,
00:28:18.06\00:28:19.79
the speaker was
someone who we have
00:28:19.83\00:28:23.33
actually gone and
spoken at his church
00:28:23.37\00:28:25.33
and I found out
00:28:25.37\00:28:26.70
he was not supposed to be there.
00:28:26.74\00:28:28.07
He was there providentially.
00:28:28.10\00:28:30.37
The original speaker had asked,
00:28:30.41\00:28:32.01
"Can you step in for me?"
00:28:32.04\00:28:33.38
I think he had become ill.
00:28:33.41\00:28:35.24
When he was up at the pulpit,
00:28:35.28\00:28:37.25
he makes a comment in
passing about abortion,
00:28:37.28\00:28:40.12
about validating the
reality of the trauma.
00:28:40.15\00:28:45.15
There was a
woman in the audience
00:28:45.19\00:28:47.29
who heard him say that.
00:28:47.32\00:28:48.99
This man did not, he
didn't give a sermon,
00:28:49.02\00:28:52.33
he didn't go on
and on about the issue,
00:28:52.36\00:28:54.66
he simply was talking
about validating the trauma,
00:28:54.70\00:28:57.90
validating the
reality of the experience.
00:28:57.93\00:29:00.64
This woman heard his comment
and she makes a beeline for him
00:29:00.67\00:29:04.74
after the session.
00:29:04.77\00:29:07.08
And he says,
00:29:07.11\00:29:08.58
"Do you know
there's a woman here
00:29:08.61\00:29:10.91
who actually
works in this area?"
00:29:10.95\00:29:14.08
So he connects the two of us.
00:29:14.12\00:29:16.28
She had an abortion
when she was very young.
00:29:16.32\00:29:18.85
She at that point
was in her late 60s
00:29:18.89\00:29:22.56
still wrestling,
00:29:22.59\00:29:24.33
"Can the Lord forgive me?"
00:29:24.36\00:29:27.63
If anyone asks,
00:29:27.66\00:29:29.10
"Is this an area
of ministry for us?"
00:29:29.13\00:29:31.83
Yes. Why?
00:29:31.87\00:29:34.00
Because the evil one
is seeking to destroy us
00:29:34.04\00:29:37.54
and he will use anything
at his disposal to do it.
00:29:37.57\00:29:42.24
And so we talked, we prayed,
00:29:42.28\00:29:45.81
I shared the
different information with her
00:29:45.85\00:29:48.92
and what was amazing is.
00:29:48.95\00:29:50.99
By the end of the conversation,
00:29:51.02\00:29:52.82
she was putting her
head back and laughing.
00:29:52.85\00:29:55.39
You could see a hope.
00:29:55.42\00:29:57.66
The Lord gives us hope
00:29:57.69\00:29:59.69
and understanding
that you are not alone,
00:29:59.73\00:30:02.66
you have not gone so far
that you're beyond his reach.
00:30:02.70\00:30:05.97
There is hope for you.
00:30:06.00\00:30:07.77
It's transformative even
that small understanding.
00:30:07.80\00:30:11.17
She hadn't gone to
any particular retreat,
00:30:11.21\00:30:13.41
done a Bible study, nothing.
00:30:13.44\00:30:15.34
And it was so,
00:30:15.38\00:30:17.48
as I reflected back on it later,
00:30:17.51\00:30:19.05
it was so remarkable.
00:30:19.08\00:30:21.02
The Lord brought
all of this together
00:30:21.05\00:30:23.42
as you said in the
beginning for many reasons.
00:30:23.45\00:30:25.95
But in particular for this woman
00:30:25.99\00:30:28.02
because He
wants to set her free,
00:30:28.06\00:30:30.13
because that is
on the Lord's heart,
00:30:30.16\00:30:32.16
freedom and
reconciliation back to Him.
00:30:32.19\00:30:35.53
And this pastor, he,
who made this comment,
00:30:35.56\00:30:40.67
he has a personal
conviction about this issue
00:30:40.70\00:30:43.84
and about the
value of the unborn,
00:30:43.87\00:30:46.17
about the value of
the woman in crisis.
00:30:46.21\00:30:49.08
And because he did,
00:30:49.11\00:30:50.61
it manifested
itself in just a comment,
00:30:50.65\00:30:55.22
but this woman
was primed to hear it.
00:30:55.25\00:30:57.85
She was hungry, she was ready
00:30:57.89\00:30:59.99
and the Lord orchestrated
00:31:00.02\00:31:01.52
this incredible
experience for her
00:31:01.56\00:31:04.86
because this man also saw
through ministry and mission.
00:31:04.89\00:31:08.76
And it wasn't a sermon,
00:31:08.80\00:31:10.47
it wasn't
something long and drawn out,
00:31:10.50\00:31:11.97
a simple thing
00:31:12.00\00:31:13.34
but she was ready
00:31:13.37\00:31:14.70
and the Lord worked
an incredible miracle.
00:31:14.74\00:31:16.81
That is amazing
because again, what you said,
00:31:16.84\00:31:21.11
"The Lord just
wants to set us free."
00:31:21.14\00:31:23.41
This is bondage,
00:31:23.45\00:31:25.18
it is such bondage
00:31:25.21\00:31:26.55
and, of course, the enemy
00:31:26.58\00:31:27.92
who is the
accuser of the brethren,
00:31:27.95\00:31:29.78
just wants to make you feel
00:31:29.82\00:31:31.55
as though God
can't forgive this.
00:31:31.59\00:31:34.12
But if God can't forgive
it, then He's not omnipotent.
00:31:34.16\00:31:38.69
Because and He's
all-powerful, we know that.
00:31:38.73\00:31:41.73
So He can forgive
anything and everything
00:31:41.76\00:31:44.87
if we just ask Him.
00:31:44.90\00:31:46.33
But Satan wants to
hold us in bondage.
00:31:46.37\00:31:48.64
Absolutely.
00:31:48.67\00:31:50.01
And I think it's important
to reach people of all ages
00:31:50.04\00:31:54.24
with this message.
00:31:54.28\00:31:55.61
You know, children are becoming,
00:31:55.64\00:31:57.45
children are becoming
sexually active so early.
00:31:57.48\00:32:01.82
And they have no clue
about what they're doing
00:32:01.85\00:32:04.32
but they're
hearing it in the music
00:32:04.35\00:32:05.85
and watching it on television
00:32:05.89\00:32:08.19
and going to movies
and it's all around them.
00:32:08.22\00:32:11.19
So how are you reaching out
to young people with Mafgia?
00:32:11.23\00:32:15.83
Well, you know, we
academy age and younger.
00:32:15.86\00:32:20.20
And one of the things
we have come up against
00:32:20.24\00:32:22.34
which just grieves me,
00:32:22.37\00:32:24.31
is that by talking about this
00:32:24.34\00:32:26.11
you're
condoning sexual behavior.
00:32:26.14\00:32:28.81
So a lot of people
00:32:28.84\00:32:30.18
and we've
actually been told this
00:32:30.21\00:32:31.95
that they're
afraid to have us come,
00:32:31.98\00:32:34.48
because they are afraid of
us condoning sexual behavior
00:32:34.52\00:32:39.79
which just makes me grieve.
00:32:39.82\00:32:42.26
We were given a
chance to, excuse me,
00:32:42.29\00:32:46.93
speak at an academy.
00:32:46.96\00:32:49.03
And I love that age group
00:32:49.06\00:32:50.87
because they're just getting
their footing as young adults,
00:32:50.90\00:32:54.74
stepping away a
little bit from mom and dad
00:32:54.77\00:32:57.64
but like you just said, Yvonne,
00:32:57.67\00:32:59.37
it's so critical
00:32:59.41\00:33:01.01
because society
is bombarding them
00:33:01.04\00:33:03.78
with the
definition of what value is.
00:33:03.81\00:33:06.88
And all of a
sudden it's the fashion,
00:33:06.92\00:33:09.22
it's the boyfriends,
00:33:09.25\00:33:10.59
how far I'll go
with the boyfriend.
00:33:10.62\00:33:12.69
You know, the movies,
00:33:12.72\00:33:14.06
they totally
exploit the sexual behavior
00:33:14.09\00:33:17.53
and the value in that.
00:33:17.56\00:33:19.39
So we're talking a group
of young men and young ladies
00:33:19.43\00:33:23.30
who are especially vulnerable.
00:33:23.33\00:33:25.47
I love them though
00:33:25.50\00:33:26.84
because they're brutally honest.
00:33:26.87\00:33:29.04
And when you go in
00:33:29.07\00:33:30.51
and our focus from
the get-go is our value
00:33:30.54\00:33:34.98
because I truly believe
00:33:35.01\00:33:36.34
at the core of reaching fashion,
00:33:36.38\00:33:39.58
all of this,
boyfriends is seeking value.
00:33:39.61\00:33:42.65
They're trying to reestablish
and get their own footing
00:33:42.68\00:33:45.49
and if we can
target that age and younger
00:33:45.52\00:33:48.29
with establishing
what intrinsic value means.
00:33:48.32\00:33:51.03
Yes.
00:33:51.06\00:33:52.39
It's not what you wear,
00:33:52.43\00:33:53.76
it's not how much
your mom and dad makes,
00:33:53.80\00:33:55.13
it's not your grades,
it's not how many boyfriends,
00:33:55.16\00:33:58.07
you know it's
an intrinsic value.
00:33:58.10\00:34:00.57
And the questions we get
from academy age young women.
00:34:00.60\00:34:05.94
We spoke to the ladies
that those were phenomenal,
00:34:05.97\00:34:08.84
very honest and raw
00:34:08.88\00:34:10.58
and somebody needs to
be there to be honest,
00:34:10.61\00:34:12.98
you know, give them answers
but in the light of the gospel.
00:34:13.01\00:34:16.62
Absolutely.
00:34:16.65\00:34:17.99
That intrinsic value
00:34:18.02\00:34:19.45
and I believe that
00:34:19.49\00:34:20.92
when young people,
00:34:20.96\00:34:22.86
when they really understand
their intrinsic value,
00:34:22.89\00:34:27.93
they won't seek out
boyfriend or the fashion.
00:34:27.96\00:34:32.27
And it'll make an
impression on the value of life,
00:34:32.30\00:34:35.50
their life,
00:34:35.54\00:34:36.87
how they behave, how
they conduct themselves.
00:34:36.91\00:34:39.11
Young men how
they treat the ladies,
00:34:39.14\00:34:41.78
the young ladies
00:34:41.81\00:34:43.31
how they behave
themselves around the men,
00:34:43.35\00:34:46.18
you know.
00:34:46.21\00:34:47.55
And so, yes, it was
a very good experience
00:34:47.58\00:34:50.39
and their questions very honest,
00:34:50.42\00:34:53.32
you know, whether
it was about abortion,
00:34:53.36\00:34:57.43
pregnancy prevention,
00:34:57.46\00:34:58.99
you know, boyfriends,
00:34:59.03\00:35:01.10
just very raw honest
questions that they have,
00:35:01.13\00:35:04.77
that we need as a church to
not be afraid to answer them
00:35:04.80\00:35:08.97
and not ignore it or say,
00:35:09.00\00:35:10.81
"Well, if I answer that
then I'm just as well saying,
00:35:10.84\00:35:14.08
yes, sex is okay."
00:35:14.11\00:35:16.54
It's not.
00:35:16.58\00:35:17.98
And so we were thrilled
00:35:18.01\00:35:20.08
and we're hoping that
more and more academies
00:35:20.12\00:35:22.68
and all the schools
00:35:22.72\00:35:25.19
will not be
afraid to address this.
00:35:25.22\00:35:27.59
You know, oh!
00:35:27.62\00:35:28.96
This is such an important point
00:35:28.99\00:35:30.99
because there
are so many academies
00:35:31.03\00:35:34.70
and colleges
00:35:34.73\00:35:36.06
that avoid sexuality or
the discussion of sexuality.
00:35:36.10\00:35:41.40
But it's rampant
00:35:41.44\00:35:43.00
and if we don't
give a godly perspective,
00:35:43.04\00:35:46.94
a biblical perspective on it,
00:35:46.98\00:35:49.54
they're getting it,
00:35:49.58\00:35:50.91
the kids are
getting it from the world
00:35:50.95\00:35:52.28
so if there's
nothing to balance it with,
00:35:52.31\00:35:55.12
you know, what do we have?
00:35:55.15\00:35:56.48
No, what you guys, I'm
so, I have to tell you,
00:35:56.52\00:35:59.15
I'm so proud of
what you're doing
00:35:59.19\00:36:00.99
because and your passion
for it just comes through
00:36:01.02\00:36:03.86
because you know
the seriousness of it
00:36:03.89\00:36:06.86
and you know the
times in which we live,
00:36:06.90\00:36:09.13
and you're trying to reclaim
the discussion for Christ,
00:36:09.16\00:36:13.27
you know.
00:36:13.30\00:36:14.64
And keep, I mean,
just give it balance
00:36:14.67\00:36:17.97
so that kids
understand what this really is.
00:36:18.01\00:36:21.71
So I'm so glad.
00:36:21.74\00:36:23.08
Are you able to go
into academies without
00:36:23.11\00:36:26.82
in general,
00:36:26.85\00:36:28.18
without too
much resistance or...
00:36:28.22\00:36:31.89
Right.
00:36:31.92\00:36:33.25
It depends on the school.
00:36:33.29\00:36:34.86
We do have to be invited in.
00:36:34.89\00:36:36.56
And if there's that fear,
00:36:36.59\00:36:41.93
there certainly can
be some hesitancy there
00:36:41.96\00:36:45.00
to address it.
00:36:45.03\00:36:46.37
One thing, we let
them know in advance too.
00:36:46.40\00:36:48.40
And I think which
helps break the ice
00:36:48.44\00:36:50.31
is that we're
aware of these fears.
00:36:50.34\00:36:52.47
So if somebody on
the faculty or the staff
00:36:52.51\00:36:55.24
if they have a concern,
00:36:55.28\00:36:56.75
we want them to freely ask us.
00:36:56.78\00:36:59.05
You know because
it's not something
00:36:59.08\00:37:00.62
we haven't heard before.
00:37:00.65\00:37:01.98
Right.
00:37:02.02\00:37:03.35
And the same with parents.
00:37:03.39\00:37:04.72
You know, we
encourage them to let them,
00:37:04.75\00:37:06.09
to let the parents know,
00:37:06.12\00:37:08.46
if they believe
that's going to be a concern.
00:37:08.49\00:37:10.29
We're not trying
to pull something
00:37:10.33\00:37:12.19
but we believe it's critical.
00:37:12.23\00:37:14.20
And then if they have a question
00:37:14.23\00:37:16.23
or a concern,
00:37:16.26\00:37:17.60
we can address that.
00:37:17.63\00:37:19.67
That is so good
00:37:19.70\00:37:21.04
And if I could
to Dianne's point,
00:37:21.07\00:37:23.67
if we don't come to understand
our value from our beginning,
00:37:23.71\00:37:29.34
we're not going to suddenly know
00:37:29.38\00:37:31.61
why we're valuable
00:37:31.65\00:37:32.98
when we become
college age 20, 30, 40, 50.
00:37:33.01\00:37:37.02
That doesn't just
suddenly spring up.
00:37:37.05\00:37:39.02
We're either grounded
in Christ or we aren't.
00:37:39.05\00:37:41.99
And this getting that message in
00:37:42.02\00:37:45.96
from the beginning
00:37:45.99\00:37:47.33
but at least then grade school,
junior high, high school,
00:37:47.36\00:37:50.17
it's critical and so important
00:37:50.20\00:37:53.67
to what we then
carry through life.
00:37:53.70\00:37:55.64
I guess I have to add
one more thing to that.
00:37:55.67\00:37:57.47
No, that's good.
00:37:57.51\00:37:58.84
Because at this
one particular academy
00:37:58.87\00:38:01.68
that we were at,
00:38:01.71\00:38:03.41
the dean said,"
00:38:03.45\00:38:05.61
Even if none of my
girls got anything from this,
00:38:05.65\00:38:08.98
I got something from it."
00:38:09.02\00:38:10.72
And what she got was the value
00:38:10.75\00:38:16.12
because what
Antionette, at whatever age,
00:38:16.16\00:38:19.03
if we've not
understood there's no age limit.
00:38:19.06\00:38:22.96
She had just come
to another revelation
00:38:23.00\00:38:26.00
as far as her own value.
00:38:26.03\00:38:28.37
You know, like you said,
00:38:28.40\00:38:29.80
"The enemy of souls
wants to keep us bogged down,
00:38:29.84\00:38:34.04
you know, with regrets, shame."
00:38:34.08\00:38:36.24
He doesn't want it.
00:38:36.28\00:38:37.61
We know the
battleground is the heart,
00:38:37.65\00:38:39.41
domain of the heart
00:38:39.45\00:38:40.78
and so he's going to
keep do everything he can
00:38:40.82\00:38:43.59
to keep us from
trusting God's mighty love.
00:38:43.62\00:38:46.82
Absolutely. And no
age limit for everyone.
00:38:46.86\00:38:49.92
You know, I've interviewed
some other ministries
00:38:49.96\00:38:53.13
that deal with sexuality
00:38:53.16\00:38:55.46
and there is this
resistance by different schools
00:38:55.50\00:39:00.94
and things to not allow
certain ministries to come in.
00:39:00.97\00:39:05.34
But yet again,
00:39:05.37\00:39:07.04
the kids are experimenting
and doing all kinds of things
00:39:07.08\00:39:10.01
and they have to
know what's right.
00:39:10.05\00:39:13.28
And so what you all are
doing is just such a blessing.
00:39:13.31\00:39:17.45
What about the church?
00:39:17.49\00:39:18.82
What kind of
support are you getting
00:39:18.85\00:39:20.92
from the church, the NAD etc?
00:39:20.96\00:39:23.63
Well, actually
00:39:23.66\00:39:24.99
we had the opportunity to speak
00:39:25.03\00:39:28.10
at the women's ministry
convention in a year ago,
00:39:28.13\00:39:32.60
I believe.
00:39:32.63\00:39:35.10
We had just again
encountered so many stories,
00:39:35.14\00:39:39.37
so many experiences.
00:39:39.41\00:39:41.14
And we had an
exhibit booth set up there
00:39:41.18\00:39:46.15
and had the
opportunity to present a seminar
00:39:46.18\00:39:49.42
and it was
remarkable, the response again.
00:39:49.45\00:39:54.12
Especially if someone believes,
00:39:54.16\00:39:56.83
"Well, that might
happen in other churches,
00:39:56.86\00:39:59.03
but not in my church.
00:39:59.06\00:40:00.40
That might
happen in other schools,
00:40:00.43\00:40:01.76
but not in my school."
00:40:01.80\00:40:03.13
Actually, statistically,
00:40:03.16\00:40:05.43
it's happening everywhere
and the Lord is saying,
00:40:05.47\00:40:08.67
"What are you going to do?
00:40:08.70\00:40:10.31
Are you going to
be My hands and feet
00:40:10.34\00:40:12.01
to address this?"
00:40:12.04\00:40:13.48
So there was a particular woman
00:40:13.51\00:40:15.61
who stayed back to speak with us
00:40:15.64\00:40:18.65
and she was post-abortive.
00:40:18.68\00:40:20.55
She had had three abortions.
00:40:20.58\00:40:23.28
She had never told anyone
00:40:23.32\00:40:24.85
maybe one friend
00:40:24.89\00:40:26.59
and she was bogged
down with guilt and shame.
00:40:26.62\00:40:31.39
And we had the
opportunity to pray with her,
00:40:31.43\00:40:34.40
I mean to take her
face in our hands and say,
00:40:34.43\00:40:37.40
"You are loved,
00:40:37.43\00:40:39.57
you are so brave
for coming here today."
00:40:39.60\00:40:43.37
When we saw her the next
day, she was beaming, beaming.
00:40:43.41\00:40:47.81
And I think the Lord,
he looks at us and says,
00:40:47.84\00:40:51.11
"This is what I'm trying
to do but if you don't do it,
00:40:51.15\00:40:56.02
who is going to do it?
00:40:56.05\00:40:57.39
You are the hands
and feet of Christ.
00:40:57.42\00:40:59.22
If you aren't
taking this message,
00:40:59.25\00:41:01.32
who is going to take it?"
00:41:01.36\00:41:03.09
And there's a
verse in 1 Corinthians
00:41:03.12\00:41:07.66
and Paul is
speaking to believers,
00:41:07.70\00:41:10.67
sinners who have
become believers.
00:41:10.70\00:41:12.03
And he says,
00:41:12.07\00:41:13.40
"Such were some of
you but you were washed,
00:41:13.44\00:41:16.10
you were sanctified."
00:41:16.14\00:41:17.84
That's what the
Lord is saying to us
00:41:17.87\00:41:20.74
that maybe we
don't have abortion
00:41:20.78\00:41:22.88
in our past,
00:41:22.91\00:41:24.25
but we too need to be washed.
00:41:24.28\00:41:26.51
So were we
00:41:26.55\00:41:27.88
and we can be
washed and sanctified.
00:41:27.92\00:41:29.25
That's what He's saying
00:41:29.28\00:41:30.62
to every single
post-abortive man and woman
00:41:30.65\00:41:33.36
and to the point that
this is so much bigger.
00:41:33.39\00:41:37.46
When we're pointing
people back to their value,
00:41:37.49\00:41:41.20
we point them to the cross.
00:41:41.23\00:41:42.83
We point them to creation.
00:41:42.86\00:41:44.43
We point them to Christ
00:41:44.47\00:41:46.07
and we invite
them to worship Him
00:41:46.10\00:41:49.04
as their creator.
00:41:49.07\00:41:51.04
The Lord is saying,
00:41:51.07\00:41:52.47
"Worship Me as creator of
all, not just creator of one."
00:41:52.51\00:41:57.25
Not just creator of
you or creator of me,
00:41:57.28\00:41:59.75
but the creator of
every single human being
00:41:59.78\00:42:02.28
He has brought into existence.
00:42:02.32\00:42:04.19
Will we worship Him that way,
00:42:04.22\00:42:06.32
and see that this issue
00:42:06.35\00:42:08.62
it's so much bigger
than we've actually realized.
00:42:08.66\00:42:11.56
Absolutely.
00:42:11.59\00:42:12.93
That's beautiful
00:42:12.96\00:42:14.33
and that's the point of this
00:42:14.36\00:42:17.27
is to really look at
the savior versus the sin.
00:42:17.30\00:42:23.24
And to acknowledge who He is
00:42:23.27\00:42:26.44
and take our
eyes off of ourselves
00:42:26.47\00:42:28.14
because when we
look at ourselves,
00:42:28.18\00:42:31.31
we never measure up.
00:42:31.35\00:42:33.11
But when we look at Him,
00:42:33.15\00:42:35.35
I mean
00:42:35.38\00:42:36.72
the story is all
together different.
00:42:36.75\00:42:38.19
So yeah, we have to look at Him.
00:42:38.22\00:42:42.02
I like what you just said.
00:42:42.06\00:42:43.39
I want to share an
exercise I do every morning.
00:42:43.43\00:42:46.03
And I include it
in my Bible studies,
00:42:46.06\00:42:48.40
is every morning before
our feet hits the ground,
00:42:48.43\00:42:51.13
we set our sights for the day.
00:42:51.17\00:42:53.70
And we can have one of three,
self situation or our savior.
00:42:53.74\00:42:59.57
And if we look at ourselves,
we're going to get derailed.
00:42:59.61\00:43:02.74
If we look at our situation,
we're going to be derailed.
00:43:02.78\00:43:06.15
We have to keep our sights
on our savior and I love that.
00:43:06.18\00:43:10.05
It's very
simple little exercise,
00:43:10.09\00:43:11.99
and throughout the day
00:43:12.02\00:43:13.36
you might have to
get yourself back home,
00:43:13.39\00:43:14.72
you know,
00:43:14.76\00:43:16.09
but keeping our
sights on our Savior.
00:43:16.12\00:43:18.56
That is so beautiful.
00:43:18.59\00:43:20.23
You guys are just
like so inspiring.
00:43:20.26\00:43:23.23
Praise the Lord.
00:43:23.26\00:43:24.60
He's done it.
00:43:24.63\00:43:25.97
It's such a blessing.
00:43:26.00\00:43:27.34
Tell us about
some other experiences
00:43:27.37\00:43:29.70
that you've had with women
00:43:29.74\00:43:31.07
who have dealt with this issue
00:43:31.11\00:43:33.21
and are transformed or redeemed?
00:43:33.24\00:43:37.75
They feel redeemed?
00:43:37.78\00:43:39.58
You know, usually
we're in this church setting
00:43:39.61\00:43:42.92
or in a school setting
00:43:42.95\00:43:44.42
or at one of our
Christian conferences,
00:43:44.45\00:43:47.02
but I was given the opportunity
to speak at a prison.
00:43:47.06\00:43:49.62
It was a
correctional institute for women
00:43:49.66\00:43:52.49
and only had just a few minutes.
00:43:52.53\00:43:55.36
There were 500 young
ladies who would come in.
00:43:55.40\00:43:57.57
I shouldn't say young, all ages.
00:43:57.60\00:44:00.37
Some of them were lifers.
00:44:00.40\00:44:02.20
And standing there and
talking to these ladies,
00:44:02.24\00:44:05.77
I, my heart just broke.
00:44:05.81\00:44:08.08
Because they all have a story
00:44:08.11\00:44:10.55
and I'm not saying
they were all post-abortive,
00:44:10.58\00:44:13.25
but so many times
00:44:13.28\00:44:14.85
an abortion decision
00:44:14.88\00:44:17.19
can shatter any
self-worth you have,
00:44:17.22\00:44:20.02
drive you into
drinking or risk taking
00:44:20.06\00:44:23.59
or just careless behavior.
00:44:23.63\00:44:25.03
You think,
00:44:25.06\00:44:26.39
"Well, I'm worthless
00:44:26.43\00:44:27.76
so why not behave
like I'm worthless."
00:44:27.80\00:44:29.66
And so many of us get
ourselves into trouble.
00:44:29.70\00:44:33.07
These ladies,
00:44:33.10\00:44:34.44
they were in a
correctional institute
00:44:34.47\00:44:36.57
because of it.
00:44:36.60\00:44:37.94
Well, I told my
story, gave my testimony
00:44:37.97\00:44:40.54
and I gave out probably
about 500 of my little booklet
00:44:40.58\00:44:44.51
that tells my story
and offered Bible studies.
00:44:44.55\00:44:48.25
Well, I heard back
00:44:48.28\00:44:49.78
and the first one I
got back, it was like oh!
00:44:49.82\00:44:52.22
This is wonderful.
00:44:52.25\00:44:54.36
And the stepping point
00:44:54.39\00:44:56.06
for my Bible study is Psalms 40,
00:44:56.09\00:44:58.69
the first few verses.
00:44:58.73\00:45:00.06
Because David cried
00:45:00.10\00:45:01.83
and he waited and the Lord heard
00:45:01.86\00:45:04.00
and He lifted him up
out of this miry pit.
00:45:04.03\00:45:07.70
And he didn't only lift
him up out of the miry pit,
00:45:07.74\00:45:10.31
but he grounded
him on solid ground,
00:45:10.34\00:45:12.81
on a solid rock himself.
00:45:12.84\00:45:15.34
And then from there,
00:45:15.38\00:45:16.95
he steadies him
as he walks along
00:45:16.98\00:45:19.41
and I love that.
00:45:19.45\00:45:20.88
And then he gave him a new song.
00:45:20.92\00:45:23.65
A song that
when others heard it,
00:45:23.69\00:45:26.05
they wanted what he had.
00:45:26.09\00:45:27.89
And that's how I
look at my experience
00:45:27.92\00:45:30.89
because when women come to me
00:45:30.93\00:45:33.09
and they've had the
experience that I've had
00:45:33.13\00:45:36.00
and yet they see
me smiling and happy
00:45:36.03\00:45:38.27
and living a life
00:45:38.30\00:45:39.63
that I didn't
think was possible ever,
00:45:39.67\00:45:42.00
they want it.
00:45:42.04\00:45:43.37
You know, they want what I have
00:45:43.41\00:45:44.91
and what a beautiful opportunity
00:45:44.94\00:45:47.34
from there to share
the gospel, you know.
00:45:47.38\00:45:50.91
And it's
beautiful, it's the Lord.
00:45:50.95\00:45:55.12
That is so great.
00:45:55.15\00:45:56.75
I think that
inmates see your sincerity.
00:45:56.79\00:46:00.52
They can see,
they can read people
00:46:00.56\00:46:03.53
and they can see if you are,
00:46:03.56\00:46:05.59
you know, you're transparent
about your experience
00:46:05.63\00:46:08.60
and you share with them
00:46:08.63\00:46:10.17
and they're just so
grateful that you're there.
00:46:10.20\00:46:12.63
It's a beautiful
thing. Yeah, it is, it is.
00:46:12.67\00:46:15.27
And then to get letters
00:46:15.30\00:46:17.11
where they're
sharing their story
00:46:17.14\00:46:18.97
and you see
00:46:19.01\00:46:20.34
how one bad decision led
to another and to another
00:46:20.38\00:46:24.35
to the point
where they feel like
00:46:24.38\00:46:25.91
there's no hope.
00:46:25.95\00:46:27.28
Oh!
00:46:27.32\00:46:28.65
But there's an
endless resource of hope
00:46:28.68\00:46:32.02
and to give someone
hope is to give them life,
00:46:32.05\00:46:35.92
just hope and a future.
00:46:35.96\00:46:37.79
Yes, beautiful.
00:46:37.83\00:46:39.53
That's beautiful. Amen.
00:46:39.56\00:46:41.56
What about you, Antionette?
00:46:41.60\00:46:44.17
When you go to churches
and you're meeting people,
00:46:44.20\00:46:48.04
what kind of reaction
are you getting from people
00:46:48.07\00:46:50.87
at the churches?
00:46:50.91\00:46:52.94
I think it
really runs the gamut.
00:46:52.97\00:46:55.74
Something that we have
come to see though is that
00:46:55.78\00:47:02.42
we have to make
this choice individually.
00:47:02.45\00:47:05.29
So I may believe
00:47:05.32\00:47:07.66
very passionately and strongly,
00:47:07.69\00:47:09.09
but I can't believe for you.
00:47:09.12\00:47:10.46
You have to come to that place.
00:47:10.49\00:47:11.93
Dianne has, each one of us
00:47:11.96\00:47:13.80
has to come to
that place individually.
00:47:13.83\00:47:16.00
And that applies to lay people,
00:47:16.03\00:47:17.90
it applies to pastors,
00:47:17.93\00:47:19.27
men, women, young, old,
00:47:19.30\00:47:20.84
every single person must come
00:47:20.87\00:47:23.71
to a decisive
point on this issue.
00:47:23.74\00:47:27.28
Earlier this year,
00:47:27.31\00:47:28.74
we had an elder
who reached out to us
00:47:28.78\00:47:33.72
about this issue.
00:47:33.75\00:47:35.08
Friends of his were going
through a crisis pregnancy
00:47:35.12\00:47:38.12
where the doctors were
saying the baby was deformed
00:47:38.15\00:47:43.43
and were pushing for abortion
and the elder was saying,
00:47:43.46\00:47:46.19
"What should we do?"
00:47:46.23\00:47:48.03
But his comments
were they said in essence,
00:47:48.06\00:47:53.40
if the child is already deformed
00:47:53.44\00:47:57.14
that sort of idea.
00:47:57.17\00:47:58.64
And that's not to
condemn him at all.
00:47:58.67\00:48:01.74
It's that's where he
was, he was wrestling.
00:48:01.78\00:48:06.68
So in our response,
00:48:06.72\00:48:10.72
we encouraged him about
the value of the unborn,
00:48:10.75\00:48:14.49
about the value of this
couple that were in crisis.
00:48:14.52\00:48:18.73
But also will we trust
the Lord in this hard place?
00:48:18.76\00:48:24.63
Does our value change
00:48:24.67\00:48:27.14
because of a
hard place, does it?
00:48:27.17\00:48:29.57
Or is God actually
the creator of all?
00:48:29.60\00:48:32.61
Is that who He is or is He not?
00:48:32.64\00:48:34.94
It doesn't mean
it's an easy situation
00:48:34.98\00:48:37.01
or an easy question,
00:48:37.05\00:48:38.88
but what was striking is that
00:48:38.91\00:48:41.68
this man is a
leader in his church
00:48:41.72\00:48:44.32
and the Lord is asking him,
00:48:44.35\00:48:46.25
come to a decisive
place on this issue.
00:48:46.29\00:48:49.72
For what we found
00:48:49.76\00:48:51.29
is just because someone is
a part of our denomination,
00:48:51.33\00:48:55.26
just because someone
says they're a Christian,
00:48:55.30\00:48:57.53
just because someone is
a leader in their church
00:48:57.57\00:48:59.53
it doesn't mean
00:48:59.57\00:49:00.90
they've come to a
place of decision.
00:49:00.94\00:49:02.84
And the Lord is saying,
00:49:02.87\00:49:04.21
"It's time to decide
00:49:04.24\00:49:06.17
because if you're going
to worship Me as creator,
00:49:06.21\00:49:08.74
you worship Me as
creator of everyone."
00:49:08.78\00:49:12.45
That's a great point, you know.
00:49:12.48\00:49:15.75
Can we worship
in the hard place?
00:49:15.78\00:49:19.95
That's a great question.
00:49:19.99\00:49:21.32
Wow! Yeah.
00:49:21.36\00:49:23.93
That's really it,
that's what you're saying.
00:49:23.96\00:49:25.39
Yeah.
00:49:25.43\00:49:26.76
Can we worship God
in the hard places?
00:49:26.80\00:49:29.30
You know, we can worship
Him when things are great,
00:49:29.33\00:49:32.03
but can we worship
Him in the hard places?
00:49:32.07\00:49:34.10
So that's really important.
00:49:34.14\00:49:35.90
So tell us briefly,
00:49:35.94\00:49:38.11
a woman comes to Mafgia
00:49:38.14\00:49:40.64
and she's struggling
with the whole abortion issue.
00:49:40.68\00:49:45.45
What is the process involved
00:49:45.48\00:49:47.82
when someone comes
there to a ministry?
00:49:47.85\00:49:52.25
The focus immediately has
to be on our intrinsic value,
00:49:52.29\00:49:57.46
who we are.
00:49:57.49\00:49:58.83
You establish that
00:49:58.86\00:50:00.46
because it's not some opinion
of this person or that person,
00:50:00.50\00:50:04.23
it's not some
well-rehearsed argument
00:50:04.27\00:50:07.64
and we're not trying
to dictate conscience
00:50:07.67\00:50:10.11
or, you know, coerce someone.
00:50:10.14\00:50:13.71
It goes back to
establishing our value.
00:50:13.74\00:50:16.95
And if you give that
woman who is in a crisis
00:50:16.98\00:50:20.25
the time of day,
00:50:20.28\00:50:21.62
to listen and to show
you her that you value her.
00:50:21.65\00:50:27.39
Just that feeling safe,
giving them a safe place.
00:50:27.42\00:50:31.63
And then, basically sharing
00:50:31.66\00:50:34.00
why we believe not
only is she valued,
00:50:34.03\00:50:37.83
but her unborn child
00:50:37.87\00:50:39.20
that she's
struggling with on abortion.
00:50:39.23\00:50:41.50
You know, it's
just being honest.
00:50:41.54\00:50:44.41
Being honest doesn't mean
00:50:44.44\00:50:45.77
you have to
always have the answer.
00:50:45.81\00:50:48.11
You know, being
honest is being willing
00:50:48.14\00:50:50.45
to cry and pray
00:50:50.48\00:50:52.71
and, Lord,
00:50:52.75\00:50:54.18
I don't know why this
is happening, you know,
00:50:54.22\00:50:57.29
but if He's our
God, He's our God.
00:50:57.32\00:51:00.52
You know,
00:51:00.56\00:51:01.89
we tell people to trust
God though the heavens fall.
00:51:01.92\00:51:05.69
Well, this is a
prime example of that.
00:51:05.73\00:51:08.26
The heavens are falling
around this young woman,
00:51:08.30\00:51:11.93
how can I show
her that I trust God?
00:51:11.97\00:51:14.87
And I love Antionette's story
00:51:14.90\00:51:16.34
because they not only came
up beside her mother and said,
00:51:16.37\00:51:20.84
"We can't support
you having an abortion."
00:51:20.88\00:51:23.71
They said, "But
we will help you."
00:51:23.75\00:51:26.88
And I love that,
00:51:26.92\00:51:28.25
that's where
00:51:28.28\00:51:29.85
the rubber meets
the road so to speak.
00:51:29.88\00:51:31.59
You know,
00:51:31.62\00:51:32.95
that's where we're really gonna
00:51:32.99\00:51:34.32
show this young woman her value.
00:51:34.36\00:51:36.09
It's not just a
matter of saying,
00:51:36.12\00:51:37.63
"Don't do that,
00:51:37.66\00:51:38.99
that's wrong and
then walking away,
00:51:39.03\00:51:40.56
I'll pray for you."
00:51:40.60\00:51:41.93
It's saying,
00:51:41.96\00:51:43.30
"I'm willing to get
into the trenches with you."
00:51:43.33\00:51:44.70
Yes.
00:51:44.73\00:51:46.07
That's where you show the value
00:51:46.10\00:51:49.07
is being able to
wrestle and struggle,
00:51:49.10\00:51:51.07
and pray and cry
00:51:51.11\00:51:52.44
and I don't know
why this is happening,
00:51:52.47\00:51:54.58
but I know our God
is bigger than this.
00:51:54.61\00:51:56.51
Yes, yes.
00:51:56.54\00:51:57.98
And to Dianne's
point quickly is that
00:51:58.01\00:52:01.02
in order to get to that place,
00:52:01.05\00:52:03.08
we have to believe in
the value of the unborn.
00:52:03.12\00:52:05.62
We have to be convinced
00:52:05.65\00:52:06.99
that the woman
deserves better than abortion.
00:52:07.02\00:52:09.62
Then resources will
come, then people will jump in.
00:52:09.66\00:52:13.19
And so the Lord is saying,
00:52:13.23\00:52:15.00
"Hop on,"
00:52:15.03\00:52:16.36
because He's moving forward.
00:52:16.40\00:52:17.73
Yes. It's
protecting her dignity.
00:52:17.77\00:52:19.97
Yes.
00:52:20.00\00:52:21.34
What you've said
today is so important
00:52:21.37\00:52:23.41
and we're going to come
back after this news break
00:52:23.44\00:52:26.17
and hear some
final thoughts from you.
00:52:26.21\00:52:28.04