As you're well aware,
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we're living in
unprecedented times.
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Join us now for
today's special program.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, friends,
welcome to 3ABN Today.
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My name is John Lomacang.
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Thank you for
taking the time to tune in.
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We have a very
exciting topic today.
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If you've joined us
before you know that
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we are very
strong on talking about
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what the Bible teaches,
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but today we're gonna
take that to another level.
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We've always attempted
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to keep our
topics Christ-centered,
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but today intentionally,
we're gonna talk about
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how to make tough
doctrines centered on Christ,
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how to do that intentionally.
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And today we have
two wonderful guests
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that I'll introduce
to you in just a moment,
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but you might wanna hit
the record button right now
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if you are
interested in studying the Bible
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and trying to find out
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how do I handle
difficult topics,
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topics that can
sometimes be divisive
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in the minds of those listening,
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sometimes topics that people
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might say that's
just really not necessary.
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How can I make the
focus totally on Christ?
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Today, we're
gonna talk about that,
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but before we get to that,
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thank you for your prayers
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and your financial
support of this network
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as we continue
going and growing,
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getting ready for
the coming of the Lord.
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Everything you do for
this ministry is greatly
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appreciated,
including your prayers.
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Before we introduce our guests,
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we have some wonderful music
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by a good friend of
mine, Stephanie Dawn,
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who always blesses my soul.
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Now she's gonna bless yours
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as she sings a
song, "O Glorious Love."
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In my darkness
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Jesus found me
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Touched my eyes
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And made me see
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Broke sin chains
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That longed had bound me
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Gave me life and liberty
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O glorious love
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Of Christ my Lord, divine
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Who gave Himself
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To save a soul like mine
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Through all my days
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And then in heaven above
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My song will silence never
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I'll worship Him forever
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And praise Him
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For His glorious love
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Oh, amazing
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Truth to ponder
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He whom angel host attend
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Lord in Heaven God's Son,
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What wonder
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He became
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The sinners friend
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O glorious love
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Of Christ my Lord, divine
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Who gave Himself
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To save a soul like mine
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Through all my days
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And then in heaven above
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My song will silence never
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I'll worship Him forever
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And praise Him
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For His glorious love
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And praise Him
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For His glorious love
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Thank you so much, Stephanie.
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And also thank you, Dad,
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for accompanying you
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on that wonderful
piece of glorious love.
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Well, that's what
we're talking about,
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the love of Christ.
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You know that a lot of people
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look at the
Bible as just this book
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that is a lot of
rules and regulations
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and Christ often get eclipsed
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by what Matthew
said or Mark said
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or what Revelation says.
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Well, today,
we're gonna put Jesus
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where He needs to
be, front and center.
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And our guests today
are here to talk about
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how to make that happen in
your attempt to share Christ
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and doctrines together.
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Pastor David Klinedinst,
good to have you here today.
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Thank you. Yes.
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And tell us
briefly where you're from
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and what you do right now?
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Well, I'm originally
from York, Pennsylvania,
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where I grew up the
first 20 some years of my life.
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And after 20 years of ministry,
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I now serve as the
Evangelism Director
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of the Chesapeake Conference.
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Okay.
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That's the closest I've
been to home in 20 years.
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Okay. Are you said York?
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I know that
Pennsylvania has two things
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in common
chocolate and railroads.
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And the York Peppermint Patty,
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is it possible to come
from York, Pennsylvania?
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I think so. Yes.
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Okay. You get the sensation.
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That's right. Good
to have you here today.
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Thank you.
Sensational. Thank you so much.
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We gonna talk about the
sensational Christ today.
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And also Pastor Joseph Ikner.
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Good to have you
here, my brother.
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Glad to be here.
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Yes, we had a chance to share
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some of the same
territory in St. Louis.
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Yes, yes, we did for a
while. We did for a while.
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And give us a little bit about
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your background
where you're from,
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what you do right now.
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So I am originally
from Cleveland, Ohio.
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Okay.
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I work in Central
States Conference,
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most specifically in
Kansas City, Missouri.
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Well, I pastor the
Linwood Boulevard SDA Temple,
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fabulous church,
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and I serve as
the area coordinator
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in Kansas City for our pastors
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and also as prayer
ministry coordinators
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for Central States.
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Good to have you
both here. Thank you.
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Well, I'm gonna dive
right into the topic.
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We're talking about
discover Bible prophecy
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and particularly making Christ
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the center of all these
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difficult topics and evangelism.
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Just kind of
walk us through that.
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How did you even
become interested
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in getting to that place
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when people
oftentimes preach the doctrines,
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but sometimes Christ
is left in the background?
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Give us how that
inspiration came to you?
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I can tell you
one specific story
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that just
burned it into my mind.
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And that was when
I lived in Nebraska.
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And we were holding
an evangelistic series
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in actually the
North Platte area.
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And I remember at the end
of that evangelistic series,
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a lady came out
on the last night
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into the foyer and said to me,
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"I wanna thank
you for making this
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so Christ-centered.
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If I would have known it
would have been like this,
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I would have
invited my friends."
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And so when she said that
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I didn't know
whether to be happy or cry.
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I mean, I was
grateful for that kind words
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that she said, but
it also told me that
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she didn't invite her friends
and I asked her well, why.
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And I remember she told me
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I have brought my friends
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to evangelistic meetings before.
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And as the speaker
was up presenting things
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in a very negative way
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that if you don't
know these truths,
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that you are
less of a Christian.
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I just slumped down in my seat.
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It was embarrassed
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for how my friends were feeling.
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And when she told me that story,
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I have made the
commitment in my mind
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that we will always be
faithful to biblical truth,
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but we will seek to present it
in a Christ-centered, positive,
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and relational way.
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And that that
story and what she said
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just still burns
in my mind today.
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Wow, Pastor Ikner,
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what does that say to you
as a preacher of righteousness?
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You know, so when I
sit and I listen to David
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kind of share that experience,
I think about the society
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in which we live in
and kind of the focus in
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relationship to church, right?
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Because back in the day,
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we tried to prove
doctrines to people
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and we went through
a whole lot of texts
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and things of that nature.
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And sometimes Christ
would not be clearly seen,
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but now we live in a
very relational time.
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And I think that
people really wanna know hey,
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how does this relate to my life?
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How does this change my life?
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How does this impact my family?
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How is this going to
make me a better person?
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And Jesus has made us a promise
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in His word in the Book of John,
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he says, "If I be lifted up."
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If I be lifted up, not
just doctrines lifted up,
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just truth lifted up,
but if I'd be lifted up,
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I would draw all men, women,
boys, and girls unto myself.
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Yeah, 'cause so many times
through the years, you know,
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you've heard the
phrases as Seventh-day Adventist
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preachers,
you've heard the phrase,
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people of the book,
but the book has gotten
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the focus rather than Christ.
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And there was a time
coming through the development
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of some of these
wonderful Bible truths
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that it could come across
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as a sledgehammer
rather than olive leaf.
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And so getting into
evangelism, talk about that,
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how did evangelism,
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how did that
become a focus for you?
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Well, when I grew up
in an Adventist Church,
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but I remember specifically
when I was about 20 years old,
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there was an evangelistic
meeting in our church.
00:10:36.60\00:10:39.67
And even though I'd heard
many of these things before
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I attended every night,
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this was the first
evangelistic meeting
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I attended all the way through.
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And when I saw
how all these truths
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were just knits
together in a whole,
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I remember sitting
there thinking to myself,
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that's what I wanna do.
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I wanna be able to share
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these Christ-centered
truths with people
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and that that's when I
remember the first call
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to really want
to be specifically
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in public evangelism.
00:11:03.56\00:11:05.79
So you say, "Well,
this is what I need to do,
00:11:05.83\00:11:08.13
but I wanna make sure
that people find Christ."
00:11:08.16\00:11:10.60
'Cause, you know, a
lot of times people say,
00:11:10.63\00:11:13.10
"Well, I know, I don't have
any issue with the Sabbath."
00:11:13.13\00:11:16.30
But I sometimes might have issue
00:11:16.34\00:11:17.71
with Sabbath keepers
because people can be so
00:11:17.74\00:11:20.88
and we've seen those
examples in Scripture
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where people can be so
supportive of the Sabbath
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as that it almost becomes
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"pharisaical" that
Christ is lost in it.
00:11:28.35\00:11:31.29
So it's not important.
00:11:31.32\00:11:32.65
Let me ask you the question,
as you put this together,
00:11:32.69\00:11:36.62
right doctrine, what's more,
00:11:36.66\00:11:39.13
what's as
important as right doctrine?
00:11:39.16\00:11:42.43
I'm throwing that up,
00:11:42.46\00:11:43.80
what is as
important as right doctrine?
00:11:43.83\00:11:46.77
I'm throwing that at you.
00:11:46.80\00:11:48.14
That one has a born
again relationship with Jesus.
00:11:48.17\00:11:51.04
See, when it comes to the things
00:11:51.07\00:11:52.41
we present in an
evangelistic meeting,
00:11:52.44\00:11:53.98
or even a set of Bible studies,
00:11:54.01\00:11:56.01
and I know early in
my evangelistic ministry,
00:11:56.04\00:11:58.65
I have to be honest,
it was more intellectual.
00:11:58.68\00:12:01.85
Do we intellectually understand
the seventh day as the Sabbath
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or that Jesus is my High
Priest in a heavenly sanctuary?
00:12:04.92\00:12:08.29
I can
intellectually understand that,
00:12:08.32\00:12:11.06
but not have it touched my heart
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in a born again way
00:12:12.89\00:12:14.23
that draws me to
Jesus and the cross.
00:12:14.26\00:12:16.30
And I wanted to go beyond
00:12:16.33\00:12:17.77
just understanding intellectual.
00:12:17.80\00:12:19.43
I mean, that
part's important too,
00:12:19.47\00:12:21.37
but actually reaching the heart,
00:12:21.40\00:12:23.81
drawing people to decisions
00:12:23.84\00:12:25.37
on what does
this topic have to do
00:12:25.41\00:12:27.94
with my relationship with Jesus.
00:12:27.98\00:12:29.64
Okay.
00:12:29.68\00:12:31.01
And so I would add to that
00:12:31.05\00:12:32.38
having right
relationship with Jesus.
00:12:32.41\00:12:34.62
I think, David, what
you said is just spot on
00:12:34.65\00:12:37.42
because a lot of times in
our evangelistic meetings,
00:12:37.45\00:12:40.29
even in our preaching
in the church, you know,
00:12:40.32\00:12:42.36
we have been
able to convert people
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.53
with head knowledge,
00:12:44.56\00:12:45.89
but we haven't done a
conversion of the heart.
00:12:45.93\00:12:48.40
And so many of our
members they become discouraged
00:12:48.43\00:12:51.83
because they are
trying to overcome
00:12:51.87\00:12:55.24
and find victory
in their own power
00:12:55.27\00:12:57.07
not only just with doctrines,
00:12:57.11\00:12:58.44
but with
substances and addictions
00:12:58.47\00:13:00.74
and the issues of
life and marriage,
00:13:00.78\00:13:02.71
and just day-to-day
life, how do I do it?
00:13:02.74\00:13:05.41
And yet for so long,
we've just kind of felt like,
00:13:05.45\00:13:08.48
here, I am going to have to do
00:13:08.52\00:13:10.35
this on my own and tag Christ,
00:13:10.39\00:13:12.82
but when Christ
in His righteousness
00:13:12.85\00:13:14.69
is seen, right?
00:13:14.72\00:13:16.06
And I come to figure out
that it's not me doing it,
00:13:16.09\00:13:19.33
but it's Christ
00:13:19.36\00:13:20.70
and the Holy Spirit
working in my heart, they do it.
00:13:20.73\00:13:23.77
All I have to do is
surrender and cooperate,
00:13:23.80\00:13:26.43
then I have power to
live a victorious life.
00:13:26.47\00:13:29.54
And these truths
now become powerful
00:13:29.57\00:13:32.24
because now I wanna do it
00:13:32.27\00:13:34.24
because I've got
the help to do it
00:13:34.28\00:13:35.98
because what's
happening not only in my mind,
00:13:36.01\00:13:38.55
but what's
happening in my heart.
00:13:38.58\00:13:39.91
That's right 2 Corinthians 5:17.
00:13:39.95\00:13:41.52
"If anyone is in
Christ, he is a new creation."
00:13:41.55\00:13:44.95
And a lot of times people,
00:13:44.99\00:13:46.52
we get people to
think differently
00:13:46.55\00:13:48.72
rather than to live differently.
00:13:48.76\00:13:50.09
Yes.
00:13:50.13\00:13:51.46
It's the transformation of life
00:13:51.49\00:13:53.03
that makes the transformation
00:13:53.06\00:13:54.40
of thought of any effect at all.
00:13:54.43\00:13:56.56
So if a person just
thinking differently,
00:13:56.60\00:13:58.27
but is not transformed.
00:13:58.30\00:13:59.83
You've heard the
phrase before you go down
00:13:59.87\00:14:01.50
a wet-sinner
come up a dry-sinner
00:14:01.54\00:14:03.51
or go down a dry-sinner
and come up a wet-sinner.
00:14:03.54\00:14:06.68
Walk us through this
'cause I know that people
00:14:06.71\00:14:08.28
watching might say,
00:14:08.31\00:14:09.64
even pastors
watching might say well.
00:14:09.68\00:14:11.65
Okay, Pastor Klinedinst,
00:14:11.68\00:14:13.31
show me this in
a functional way.
00:14:13.35\00:14:15.98
Walk us through some of that?
00:14:16.02\00:14:17.35
Well, in a generic sense
before I speak on a subject
00:14:17.39\00:14:20.99
or give a Bible study on
it, whatever the context may be,
00:14:21.02\00:14:24.39
I have to ask myself
a few questions to think
00:14:24.43\00:14:26.66
through in my mind
and pray through it.
00:14:26.70\00:14:28.66
And some of those
questions would be,
00:14:28.70\00:14:31.03
what does this topic tell me
00:14:31.07\00:14:33.47
about having a personal
relationship with Jesus?
00:14:33.50\00:14:36.27
How does this
doctrine point me to the cross?
00:14:36.30\00:14:40.14
You know, how does this doctrine
00:14:40.18\00:14:42.18
somehow enable me to
develop a closer walk with Jesus
00:14:42.21\00:14:45.81
and all that He has done for me?
00:14:45.85\00:14:47.98
If I can't show that in
whatever topic I'm covering,
00:14:48.02\00:14:51.59
whether it be, you know,
00:14:51.62\00:14:52.95
a 70 week
prophecy, or the Sabbath,
00:14:52.99\00:14:55.56
or even the mark of the beast,
00:14:55.59\00:14:57.16
if I can't show how that
draws me closer to Jesus,
00:14:57.19\00:15:00.86
do I really need to
be talking about it?
00:15:00.90\00:15:02.43
'Cause then I'm just
getting the head knowledge
00:15:02.46\00:15:04.30
instead of drawing people
00:15:04.33\00:15:05.67
into that intimate born
again relationship with Christ.
00:15:05.70\00:15:08.94
Do you remember growing up?
00:15:08.97\00:15:10.31
And I know I had this experience
00:15:10.34\00:15:11.67
before I became a
pastor, I remember growing up,
00:15:11.71\00:15:14.14
and you would meet controversy.
00:15:14.18\00:15:16.85
And I remember, you know,
00:15:16.88\00:15:18.55
sitting down and
getting all those proof text.
00:15:18.58\00:15:20.38
Do you remember
those proof text days?
00:15:20.42\00:15:21.75
Absolutely. Yes.
00:15:21.78\00:15:23.12
Well, how do you see
00:15:23.15\00:15:24.49
the difference now in your life,
00:15:24.52\00:15:25.85
from the proof
text to the Christ text?
00:15:25.89\00:15:29.26
How do you see that now?
00:15:29.29\00:15:30.63
Any one of you
could answer that.
00:15:30.66\00:15:31.99
So I think that if you
talk about the proof text thing,
00:15:32.03\00:15:35.83
you're sitting there
and you're going through
00:15:35.86\00:15:37.57
a series of texts,
where you're just trying
00:15:37.60\00:15:40.14
to show why this is truth,
00:15:40.17\00:15:44.47
and why this is the right way.
00:15:44.51\00:15:47.08
And a lot of times
people are turned off by that
00:15:47.11\00:15:50.01
because if I'm of
another denomination
00:15:50.05\00:15:52.28
and you're trying to get me
to come across or proselytize,
00:15:52.31\00:15:55.32
then it's you being
right and me being wrong,
00:15:55.35\00:15:58.29
but now if I talk
about it from a relationship,
00:15:58.32\00:16:01.46
this is what Christ has for me.
00:16:01.49\00:16:03.86
And each one of
these doctrines enhances
00:16:03.89\00:16:06.86
my relationship with God.
00:16:06.90\00:16:08.23
So if I'm talking about
00:16:08.26\00:16:09.70
the Sabbath it's no
longer of just about a day.
00:16:09.73\00:16:12.80
And in fact, we used to
spend a whole lot of time
00:16:12.83\00:16:14.64
just talking about
the day of worship.
00:16:14.67\00:16:16.91
Well, we only spend
maybe two or three hours
00:16:16.94\00:16:18.97
together worshiping
00:16:19.01\00:16:20.34
or less than that
or some other times,
00:16:20.38\00:16:22.01
but now we're talking about
00:16:22.04\00:16:23.38
being in
relationship with Christ,
00:16:23.41\00:16:25.31
where he's able
to spend time with me
00:16:25.35\00:16:27.75
and talk with me and I have
00:16:27.78\00:16:29.38
uninterrupted time for
a 24-hour period of time.
00:16:29.42\00:16:33.02
Instead of just running in
for service and running out,
00:16:33.05\00:16:35.62
I am now connecting
with Christ in a real
00:16:35.66\00:16:38.96
and personal way.
00:16:38.99\00:16:40.80
And I still do
proof text so to speak,
00:16:40.83\00:16:43.77
but what we look
for in those texts is
00:16:43.80\00:16:45.33
I like to call a bridge text.
00:16:45.37\00:16:47.90
What in that text is a
bridge that's gonna allow me
00:16:47.94\00:16:51.84
to transition from
the intellectual truth
00:16:51.87\00:16:54.74
to pointing people to Jesus
00:16:54.78\00:16:56.38
and the cross and
how this helps them
00:16:56.58\00:16:58.58
to connect with Christ.
00:16:58.61\00:16:59.95
So I look for the
bridge in that text
00:16:59.98\00:17:01.95
that allows me to do that
00:17:01.98\00:17:03.45
so that I'm going
not just for the mind,
00:17:03.49\00:17:05.75
but also for the heart.
00:17:05.79\00:17:07.22
Okay, so you're not necessarily
00:17:07.26\00:17:08.62
like a lot of
people nowadays say,
00:17:08.66\00:17:09.99
"Well, Jesus only, just tell me,
00:17:10.03\00:17:11.56
tell me about Jesus,
tell me the story of Jesus."
00:17:11.59\00:17:13.86
And they're, we're
living in a generation
00:17:13.90\00:17:15.46
where the Jesus only is saying,
00:17:15.50\00:17:18.83
"Well, I don't
want the doctrines.
00:17:18.87\00:17:20.20
Just give me Jesus only."
00:17:20.24\00:17:21.57
How do you see the
balance between the two?
00:17:21.60\00:17:23.54
Because there's a paradigm
00:17:23.57\00:17:24.97
you could go one
way or the other,
00:17:25.01\00:17:26.54
but what I hear you
saying is something different.
00:17:26.57\00:17:28.74
You're saying, don't
go far left or far right,
00:17:28.78\00:17:31.28
but both are relevant.
00:17:31.31\00:17:32.65
Tell me how that works?
00:17:32.68\00:17:34.02
Definitely, I mean,
I understand Jesus only
00:17:34.05\00:17:35.78
as far as only
Jesus can save me,
00:17:35.82\00:17:38.49
but if I throw doctrine out,
00:17:38.52\00:17:40.32
the problem is
for every doctrine
00:17:40.36\00:17:42.26
of the Bible,
00:17:42.29\00:17:43.63
I misunderstand, I
misunderstand something about
00:17:43.66\00:17:46.56
the character of Christ,
and the plan of salvation.
00:17:46.59\00:17:49.60
So though the
doctrine doesn't save me,
00:17:49.63\00:17:51.70
it does tell me
something about Jesus' love.
00:17:51.73\00:17:54.47
Okay, Pastor.
00:17:54.50\00:17:55.84
And I would say that
00:17:55.87\00:17:57.21
my loving
relationship with Jesus
00:17:57.24\00:17:59.41
leads me to an obedience
to everything that He says
00:17:59.44\00:18:03.18
because the Word
says in John 14:15,
00:18:03.21\00:18:05.35
"If you love Me, you
will keep My commandments."
00:18:05.38\00:18:08.48
And so if I got
this relationship
00:18:08.52\00:18:10.35
and I love Jesus
and understand Him,
00:18:10.39\00:18:11.99
then the things that
00:18:12.02\00:18:13.36
He has asked for me
to do His commandments,
00:18:13.39\00:18:15.66
I'm going to want to do them.
00:18:15.69\00:18:17.03
That's right.
00:18:17.06\00:18:18.39
That love, it
makes a difference.
00:18:18.43\00:18:19.76
Like a marriage,
00:18:19.79\00:18:21.13
you do what you
do for your spouse.
00:18:21.16\00:18:23.87
I mean, I've been married
a long-time, beautifully.
00:18:23.90\00:18:27.50
And my wife and I've
always said you have,
00:18:27.54\00:18:29.57
time flies when
you're having fun,
00:18:29.60\00:18:31.41
but when our anniversary,
we guard our anniversary,
00:18:31.44\00:18:34.94
we say whatever you do,
don't plan on our anniversary
00:18:34.98\00:18:37.28
because we take the whole
day, we sometimes go away.
00:18:37.31\00:18:40.38
And I can imagine a wife saying,
00:18:40.42\00:18:43.95
"Well, what are
we gonna do today?"
00:18:43.99\00:18:45.32
Well, I have this
meeting, I have that meeting,
00:18:45.35\00:18:47.06
I have this meeting,
that meeting, wait a minute,
00:18:47.09\00:18:48.42
what is today?
00:18:48.46\00:18:49.79
Our anniversary, so
the day becomes relevant
00:18:49.82\00:18:52.13
only as the love relationship
between a person exists.
00:18:52.16\00:18:56.73
Do you wanna share that example
00:18:56.77\00:18:58.43
because you talked about
making Christ relational.
00:18:58.47\00:19:01.04
I think you brought a
video with you that may be
00:19:01.07\00:19:03.17
able to bring that point out.
00:19:03.20\00:19:04.91
We did.
00:19:04.94\00:19:06.27
We created an
evangelistic series
00:19:06.31\00:19:08.04
called Forecasting Hope
which is meant to incorporate
00:19:08.08\00:19:11.61
these principles of
making things Christ-centered,
00:19:11.65\00:19:14.18
positive, and relational.
00:19:14.22\00:19:16.85
And so probably I
think the first clip
00:19:16.89\00:19:18.22
is just the intro to that
00:19:18.25\00:19:19.59
'cause it's starting to
air in 3ABN this weekend.
00:19:19.62\00:19:22.32
And there's a clip about
00:19:22.36\00:19:23.69
how do you make
the Sabbath relational,
00:19:23.73\00:19:25.13
but that's the second one.
00:19:25.16\00:19:26.49
Okay, so let's go with
the first one the intro
00:19:26.53\00:19:27.86
and let people see.
00:19:27.90\00:19:29.23
This is what's leading
00:19:29.26\00:19:30.60
into your
evangelistic of Forecasting Hope
00:19:30.63\00:19:32.13
evangelistic series.
00:19:32.17\00:19:33.67
Let's check that out.
00:19:33.70\00:19:35.04
Wow, I like that.
00:20:20.42\00:20:21.75
Good friend of
ours, Ricky Carter,
00:20:21.78\00:20:23.72
who's that animator.
00:20:23.75\00:20:25.09
Who did that, he's
done some work for me too.
00:20:25.12\00:20:27.36
Wonderful, compelling.
00:20:27.39\00:20:28.86
It's showing the kind of society
00:20:28.89\00:20:30.29
we're living in today.
00:20:30.33\00:20:31.66
I mean, let me ask you
the question here we are
00:20:31.69\00:20:33.19
in a new paradigm.
00:20:33.23\00:20:34.70
How are we coping
in this new paradigm
00:20:34.73\00:20:36.90
because it's transformed
the way evangelism happens?
00:20:36.93\00:20:41.94
While people are searching
for hope, you know, actually,
00:20:41.97\00:20:44.17
Forecasting Hope was born that
00:20:44.21\00:20:46.21
when COVID started and
people were stuck at home,
00:20:46.24\00:20:50.05
we wanted to be able to,
can we still reach people
00:20:50.08\00:20:52.48
'cause they were
asking questions.
00:20:52.51\00:20:53.88
Google searches
00:20:53.92\00:20:55.25
in the Second
Coming are up like 150%.
00:20:55.28\00:20:58.05
Can we still reach people
00:20:58.09\00:20:59.42
and they get enough
negativity from the media,
00:20:59.45\00:21:01.76
what can we show
that's positive even about
00:21:01.79\00:21:04.33
what's going on right now?
00:21:04.36\00:21:05.69
How can we allow prophecy
00:21:05.73\00:21:07.23
to forecast hope for the future?
00:21:07.26\00:21:10.50
And I would say, you
know, during the COVID era,
00:21:10.53\00:21:14.14
it's just become a
lot more challenging
00:21:14.17\00:21:16.27
with churches being closed,
00:21:16.30\00:21:17.71
not being able to
go in into the doors,
00:21:17.74\00:21:20.38
we've got to find new ways
00:21:20.41\00:21:21.74
to be able to
connect with people.
00:21:21.78\00:21:23.11
I think that people
have a lot of uncertainty.
00:21:23.14\00:21:24.91
And even as our churches open,
00:21:24.95\00:21:26.58
people may not be
as ready to return.
00:21:26.61\00:21:28.68
So being able to use media,
00:21:28.72\00:21:30.45
to be able to
communicate with people,
00:21:30.49\00:21:31.89
and I think that
David is so right.
00:21:31.92\00:21:33.25
I mean, you watch the news.
00:21:33.29\00:21:34.62
In fact, they tell you that
00:21:34.66\00:21:35.99
you should limit
the amount of time
00:21:36.02\00:21:37.36
that you watch
the news, you know,
00:21:37.39\00:21:38.73
less than an hour,
30 minutes or whatever.
00:21:38.76\00:21:40.90
People do need hope.
00:21:40.93\00:21:42.36
And so how do you know we
look at all of these things
00:21:42.40\00:21:44.50
that have happened,
COVID, the racial unrest,
00:21:44.53\00:21:48.24
how do we give
people a sense of hope
00:21:48.27\00:21:51.21
and make a difference?
00:21:51.24\00:21:52.71
And I think that we can
do that through prophecy
00:21:52.74\00:21:55.08
and through this program
that David has rolled out.
00:21:55.11\00:21:57.25
Yeah, prophecy
is a line of hope.
00:21:57.28\00:22:00.62
I like, you
know, Isaiah 46:9-10.
00:22:00.65\00:22:03.72
You know, "I am God
and there is none like Me.
00:22:03.75\00:22:06.19
I am God and so
declaring the end
00:22:06.22\00:22:08.72
from the
beginning from ancient times
00:22:08.76\00:22:10.89
things that are not yet done."
00:22:10.93\00:22:13.09
So prophecy gives us hope.
00:22:13.13\00:22:15.66
And why would you say
prophecy gives us hope?
00:22:15.70\00:22:18.03
Well, because we
know how it ends.
00:22:18.07\00:22:19.40
Okay.
00:22:19.43\00:22:20.77
You know, a lot
of times prophecy
00:22:20.80\00:22:22.14
is all about doom and gloom
00:22:22.17\00:22:23.51
and this terrible
thing is gonna happen.
00:22:23.54\00:22:25.21
And though we don't
skip over the reality
00:22:25.24\00:22:27.31
of what things may
happen in the last days,
00:22:27.34\00:22:30.55
we need to keep
Christ in the center of it
00:22:30.58\00:22:33.11
because He is the one
we are looking forward to.
00:22:33.15\00:22:35.92
We have a relationship
with Him all the way through,
00:22:35.95\00:22:37.89
heaven is coming our way.
00:22:37.92\00:22:39.65
And if all we're
gonna do is doom and gloom,
00:22:39.69\00:22:41.62
people might as
well watch the news.
00:22:41.66\00:22:43.22
We wanna give them a hope
00:22:43.26\00:22:44.59
when they open up the scriptures
00:22:44.63\00:22:46.19
'cause prophecy has a
lot of good things to say,
00:22:46.23\00:22:49.16
hopeful things to say.
00:22:49.20\00:22:50.60
So we wanna be like that surgeon
00:22:50.63\00:22:52.63
who says to, you know,
00:22:52.67\00:22:54.00
you have an abscess,
we got to get that out.
00:22:54.04\00:22:56.07
It's not good news, but
I'm gonna be as anesthetic
00:22:56.10\00:22:59.74
as I possibly can
and when you're done,
00:22:59.77\00:23:01.98
when I'm done, you're
gonna feel a lot better.
00:23:02.01\00:23:03.95
So we don't
avoid what's happening,
00:23:03.98\00:23:05.65
but we try to stay
00:23:05.68\00:23:07.02
on the other
side of this surgery
00:23:07.05\00:23:08.92
'cause the world has taken us
00:23:08.95\00:23:10.29
through a
surgical process right now,
00:23:10.32\00:23:11.65
if you think about it,
00:23:11.69\00:23:13.02
who could have ever
predicted we're in environment.
00:23:13.05\00:23:14.92
We're gonna be
in the environment
00:23:14.96\00:23:16.29
that we're in today.
00:23:16.32\00:23:17.66
We didn't see it coming.
00:23:17.69\00:23:19.03
And I would say, you know,
00:23:19.06\00:23:20.40
prophecy doesn't just
show Jesus as a judge,
00:23:20.43\00:23:22.36
which He rightfully is.
00:23:22.40\00:23:24.23
We know that He's
King and that He's Lord
00:23:24.27\00:23:26.13
and that He's coming, right?
00:23:26.17\00:23:28.24
But it also shows
Jesus as a Savior,
00:23:28.27\00:23:30.97
it shows Him as
a Deliverer, right?
00:23:31.01\00:23:33.68
And it creates the opportunity
00:23:33.71\00:23:35.44
that there is a
better life that's coming.
00:23:35.48\00:23:37.31
So all that we're dealing with,
again, with this virus with,
00:23:37.35\00:23:40.98
you know, racial
unrest with all that happened
00:23:41.02\00:23:43.82
with George Floyd
knees being put on neck,
00:23:43.85\00:23:45.69
not being able to breathe.
00:23:45.72\00:23:47.66
Listen, Jesus is saying to us,
00:23:47.69\00:23:49.56
I'm coming to
give you a better life
00:23:49.59\00:23:51.36
where there's no more
pain, there's no more hurt,
00:23:51.39\00:23:53.09
there's no more
sorrow, there's no more death,
00:23:53.13\00:23:55.06
there's no more suffering,
there's no more suffocation.
00:23:55.10\00:23:57.33
We're gonna be
able to live and breathe
00:23:57.37\00:23:58.83
and I'm gonna be there with you.
00:23:58.87\00:24:00.24
It makes God personable, right?
00:24:00.27\00:24:01.94
He's going to live amongst
us, He with us, us with Him.
00:24:01.97\00:24:05.97
You know, as an
evangelist, David, I could see,
00:24:06.01\00:24:09.14
it really gives you a
passion to say to people,
00:24:09.18\00:24:12.11
"Hey, there's a great
big dark cloud coming,
00:24:12.15\00:24:15.08
but if you drive
through it on the other side,
00:24:15.12\00:24:16.99
there's some beautiful
sun, there's some great time
00:24:17.02\00:24:20.29
that you'd be able to
enjoy what's beyond that."
00:24:20.32\00:24:23.06
So we're
letting people know that
00:24:23.09\00:24:24.43
there's something
beyond what we see right now.
00:24:24.46\00:24:26.26
Am I saying that correctly?
00:24:26.29\00:24:27.70
And what makes the light go on
00:24:27.73\00:24:29.66
in my eyes gives me my
passion is when I hear people
00:24:29.70\00:24:32.93
whether it be an
evangelistic meeting
00:24:32.97\00:24:34.34
or whatever context,
when they come out and say,
00:24:34.37\00:24:37.14
I never heard
it that way before,
00:24:37.17\00:24:38.51
even church
members who have heard
00:24:38.54\00:24:40.11
some of these
doctrines all their life,
00:24:40.14\00:24:41.84
I never thought of it
or heard it that way before
00:24:41.88\00:24:44.21
or saw Christ in
the middle of this,
00:24:44.25\00:24:46.51
that just stokes my passions
when I hear people say that
00:24:46.55\00:24:49.18
because then you know,
00:24:49.22\00:24:50.85
the Holy Spirit is working
00:24:50.89\00:24:52.35
and they're seeing Jesus
00:24:52.39\00:24:53.72
through these doctrines
the way it was supposed to be
00:24:53.76\00:24:56.19
from the beginning.
00:24:56.22\00:24:57.56
That's right. Like
the lights are off,
00:24:57.59\00:24:58.93
but I know my dad is
still in the storm with me,
00:24:58.96\00:25:01.16
like a little girl's
story always talked about.
00:25:01.20\00:25:03.23
We alluded to the Sabbath
00:25:03.26\00:25:05.00
being a
Christ-centered approach,
00:25:05.03\00:25:06.90
but you said
you also have a clip
00:25:06.94\00:25:08.27
to show how that can be possible
00:25:08.30\00:25:11.77
and how we can take the Sabbath,
00:25:11.81\00:25:13.41
which is in fact,
an identifying mark.
00:25:13.44\00:25:16.21
And not just make it
00:25:16.24\00:25:17.58
our point of
identity to the day,
00:25:17.61\00:25:20.08
but a point of
identity to the Christ.
00:25:20.12\00:25:22.12
Let's just take a
look at that right now.
00:25:22.15\00:25:25.32
Now what if I
said that to Marquita?
00:25:25.35\00:25:27.86
I say that to her,
00:25:27.89\00:25:29.22
and when that special day comes,
00:25:29.26\00:25:31.29
I'm doing other things.
00:25:31.33\00:25:33.40
We're out taking a walk,
00:25:33.43\00:25:34.76
or we're out at that
special candlelight restaurant
00:25:34.80\00:25:37.03
on our special day.
00:25:37.07\00:25:38.47
And all I'm doing
is on my cell phone
00:25:38.50\00:25:40.64
talking to my friends,
00:25:40.67\00:25:42.27
or I'm on the iPhone
trying to check the NBA scores
00:25:42.30\00:25:45.24
and see what my
favorite basketball team did,
00:25:45.27\00:25:47.48
or I'm trying to
sneak in reading a few pages
00:25:47.51\00:25:49.68
of my favorite book.
00:25:49.71\00:25:51.75
How well do you think that
00:25:51.78\00:25:53.11
would come across with Marquita?
00:25:53.15\00:25:55.75
Well, I can tell
you, it won't go very well
00:25:55.78\00:25:58.19
because she would say something
00:25:58.22\00:26:00.32
because what I
would be communicating is
00:26:00.36\00:26:03.06
these other
things are more important
00:26:03.09\00:26:06.03
than our relationship.
00:26:06.06\00:26:07.73
I'm not willing
to set them aside.
00:26:07.76\00:26:10.20
And so apparently I
only value the relationship
00:26:10.23\00:26:13.34
up to the point of convenience.
00:26:13.37\00:26:17.41
You see, that's
why God invites us
00:26:17.44\00:26:20.28
to set aside our secular labors.
00:26:20.31\00:26:23.35
Six days a week,
we have to do that.
00:26:23.38\00:26:26.18
And that seventh day
00:26:26.21\00:26:28.18
that Sabbath set
aside is a blessing
00:26:28.22\00:26:30.55
from the
beginning for all mankind.
00:26:30.59\00:26:33.09
We're able to come
into the presence of Jesus,
00:26:33.12\00:26:35.72
focus on our spiritual life,
and grow to know and worship
00:26:35.76\00:26:41.06
and acknowledge our Creator.
00:26:41.10\00:26:43.16
It's a blessing
from the beginning.
00:26:43.20\00:26:46.80
To illustrate it further,
let's ask another question.
00:26:46.84\00:26:51.71
What do you think would
be the easiest way to destroy
00:26:51.74\00:26:54.81
a relationship
between a man and a woman?
00:26:54.84\00:26:56.78
What would be the easiest way?
00:26:56.81\00:26:59.21
Now someone might say,
"Well, throw another woman
00:26:59.25\00:27:01.65
or put another
man into the picture."
00:27:01.68\00:27:04.19
Well, I'll grant you
that certainly won't help,
00:27:04.22\00:27:06.96
but that's not the easiest way.
00:27:06.99\00:27:09.32
The easiest way to
destroy a relationship
00:27:09.36\00:27:12.39
is to simply take away
the time they spend together
00:27:12.43\00:27:18.73
because when you
make them so busy,
00:27:18.77\00:27:21.47
and their life so
chaotic, even if they don't have
00:27:21.50\00:27:24.34
other marital issues,
00:27:24.37\00:27:25.77
if you take away the
time they spend together,
00:27:25.81\00:27:29.48
the relationship, the intimacy,
00:27:29.51\00:27:32.21
the closeness deteriorates,
00:27:32.25\00:27:34.52
and that
relationship is on its way down.
00:27:34.55\00:27:39.29
That is exactly what the devil
has done with God's Sabbath.
00:27:39.32\00:27:45.26
Make us so busy,
make the world so hectic,
00:27:45.29\00:27:49.40
make us believe that
it's not important anymore,
00:27:49.43\00:27:52.13
that he seeks to take
away that special Sabbath time
00:27:52.17\00:27:55.84
that God gave
us in the beginning
00:27:55.87\00:27:57.77
so that we aren't able to spend
00:27:57.81\00:27:59.61
that special time growing
in a relationship with Jesus.
00:27:59.64\00:28:04.98
Wow, thank you,
David. That's true.
00:28:05.01\00:28:06.75
It's about relationship.
00:28:06.78\00:28:08.55
I like the fact that
you brought your wife
00:28:08.58\00:28:09.92
into the scenario.
00:28:09.95\00:28:11.29
Am I correct? I don't know.
00:28:11.32\00:28:12.65
With her permission.
Okay, with her permission.
00:28:12.69\00:28:14.02
It's important,
it's about relationship.
00:28:14.06\00:28:15.96
And as married men we,
00:28:15.99\00:28:17.56
you can bring another
person into the relationship,
00:28:17.59\00:28:21.46
or on that
special day you don't say,
00:28:21.50\00:28:23.53
"Well, you know, honey,
00:28:23.57\00:28:24.90
let's hurry up
and have this dinner.
00:28:24.93\00:28:26.27
My friends are
waiting to go bowling."
00:28:26.30\00:28:27.64
She says, "Wait a
minute, it's our day."
00:28:27.67\00:28:29.00
So that's inspiring.
00:28:29.04\00:28:31.57
What do you say
to people that say,
00:28:31.61\00:28:34.78
"Well, okay,
relationship is more important
00:28:34.81\00:28:37.81
than the day
00:28:37.85\00:28:39.18
because like I talked
about avoiding the extremes?
00:28:39.21\00:28:42.82
Well, I mean,
the Bible, of course,
00:28:42.85\00:28:44.19
is very clear on the
day, but to be honest,
00:28:44.22\00:28:47.12
it's not hard to show
00:28:47.16\00:28:48.49
which day is the
Sabbath biblically,
00:28:48.52\00:28:49.86
the seventh day, but
early on in our ministry,
00:28:49.89\00:28:52.86
I used to think of I
just could prove that
00:28:52.89\00:28:54.73
the Sabbath is the seventh day,
00:28:54.76\00:28:56.10
I've done my job
as an evangelist.
00:28:56.13\00:28:58.20
And I don't
think that way anymore
00:28:58.23\00:29:00.47
because now it has to be about
00:29:00.50\00:29:03.44
what does the Sabbath provide
for me in order to have that
00:29:03.47\00:29:06.98
born-again
relationship with Jesus.
00:29:07.01\00:29:09.88
You know, when I have that
00:29:09.91\00:29:11.25
born-again
relationship with Jesus,
00:29:11.28\00:29:12.65
then I want to honor the day
00:29:12.68\00:29:14.32
that He specifically set aside,
00:29:14.35\00:29:16.82
but it has to do
with relationship,
00:29:16.85\00:29:18.95
makes me so busy,
00:29:18.99\00:29:20.46
that I don't even have
that special time with Jesus.
00:29:20.49\00:29:23.06
That's why the
devil hates the Sabbath.
00:29:23.09\00:29:24.43
It's not just
'cause it's the seventh day
00:29:24.46\00:29:26.29
is because it's
that special time
00:29:26.33\00:29:28.86
that that he
wants to do away with,
00:29:28.90\00:29:30.97
so that I don't have that
time to connect with Jesus.
00:29:31.00\00:29:33.74
And that's what the
seventh day is set aside for.
00:29:33.77\00:29:35.57
That's right. A
sign between Him and us.
00:29:35.60\00:29:37.31
He said, "This is My
sign between you and Me."
00:29:37.34\00:29:39.57
Pastor Ikner.
00:29:39.61\00:29:40.94
If I was, as I was to add,
if we were talking about time,
00:29:40.98\00:29:43.18
as David said,
00:29:43.21\00:29:44.55
I think one of the
important things is,
00:29:44.58\00:29:47.28
we see that from
the very beginning
00:29:47.32\00:29:49.12
the Book of Genesis that
that this is God's ideal.
00:29:49.15\00:29:52.35
We have a relational God
00:29:52.39\00:29:54.69
and He makes us a
relational people.
00:29:54.72\00:29:57.09
So He creates Adam
and Eve on the sixth day.
00:29:57.13\00:30:00.30
And as soon as
the sixth day is done,
00:30:00.33\00:30:02.40
what is He ushered them into.
00:30:02.43\00:30:04.67
He ushers them into a
relationship with Him.
00:30:04.70\00:30:08.10
I think it's also
important to point out.
00:30:08.14\00:30:09.54
Jesus says, you
know, in New Testament.
00:30:09.57\00:30:10.91
Mark 2:27-28.
00:30:10.94\00:30:13.14
"He says that, 'The
Sabbath was created for man
00:30:13.17\00:30:17.11
and not man for the Sabbath.'
00:30:17.15\00:30:18.48
It is a day for us to be
in relationship with Him.'"
00:30:18.51\00:30:21.62
So I don't think
that we can disconnect,
00:30:21.65\00:30:24.45
you know, the two.
00:30:24.49\00:30:25.89
If I love my God,
then I understand that
00:30:25.92\00:30:29.52
He loves me so much
00:30:29.56\00:30:30.89
that He wants
uninterrupted undivided time
00:30:30.93\00:30:34.53
with Him on a Sabbath day.
00:30:34.56\00:30:36.13
I like that you pointed.
00:30:36.16\00:30:37.50
I'm glad you brought that
to the point of uninterrupted
00:30:37.53\00:30:39.93
because we have a relationship
with Christ every day,
00:30:39.97\00:30:43.61
when it is, but
then on that seventh day,
00:30:43.64\00:30:45.31
He says, shut
everything else down.
00:30:45.34\00:30:46.98
This is just My time and
yours, it's not the office time,
00:30:47.01\00:30:49.64
not the news time,
this is not Facebook time,
00:30:49.68\00:30:53.75
this is just our time.
00:30:53.78\00:30:55.48
I wanna have that
one to one with you.
00:30:55.52\00:30:57.19
Thank you for
bringing that point out,
00:30:57.22\00:30:58.65
but there's
another difficult doctrine,
00:30:58.69\00:31:00.29
you know, the 70 weeks,
people talk about the 70 weeks,
00:31:00.32\00:31:02.82
that's just such a
beautiful time prophecy.
00:31:02.86\00:31:07.33
How were you able to bring that,
00:31:07.36\00:31:08.96
make that so Christ-centered?
00:31:09.00\00:31:10.33
You know, it
comes to the 70 weeks.
00:31:10.37\00:31:12.20
Sometimes
people wanna skip that,
00:31:12.23\00:31:14.94
but, you know, that
there's not another more
00:31:14.97\00:31:16.37
Christ-centered
prophecy in the Old Testament.
00:31:16.40\00:31:18.84
And a lot of times
if we're not careful,
00:31:18.87\00:31:20.78
I know what I got
caught up in the beginning,
00:31:20.81\00:31:23.45
is I will use the 70 weeks
and just use that as a way to,
00:31:23.48\00:31:26.25
"Hey, I got to prove
that these dates are right.
00:31:26.28\00:31:28.48
And I got to show that
00:31:28.52\00:31:29.85
there is no
seven-year tribulation period
00:31:29.88\00:31:31.85
in a secret rapture
like those last seven years."
00:31:31.89\00:31:34.86
And I get into
talking about those things,
00:31:34.89\00:31:37.23
but I missed the
opportunity to talk about Jesus.
00:31:37.26\00:31:39.86
The central focus of it.
00:31:39.89\00:31:41.23
Sure, like He gives
Israel 490 years to repent,
00:31:41.26\00:31:44.43
you know, the 70 weeks.
00:31:44.47\00:31:45.97
Did they really need 490 years?
00:31:46.00\00:31:48.30
That shows God's
mercy, God's patience with us.
00:31:48.34\00:31:52.94
So now I can transition
from talking about 457 BC.
00:31:52.97\00:31:56.48
I mean, that's important,
00:31:56.51\00:31:57.85
but I can
transition from that to now
00:31:57.88\00:31:59.25
talk about maybe a story,
00:31:59.28\00:32:01.08
how has God been
patient in my life?
00:32:01.12\00:32:03.35
What has Jesus
Christ done for me
00:32:03.39\00:32:05.35
and shown me His mercy
00:32:05.39\00:32:06.72
or I can tell a
story of someone else
00:32:06.76\00:32:09.19
or even bring
someone upfront to share
00:32:09.22\00:32:11.29
a five-minute testimony.
00:32:11.33\00:32:12.83
This is how Christ has
demonstrated mercy in my life.
00:32:12.86\00:32:15.70
I can do that
while talking about
00:32:15.73\00:32:17.07
the 70 weeks and
457 BC and 31 AD.
00:32:17.10\00:32:21.00
And to me, that's a bridge
00:32:21.04\00:32:23.00
as to how we can make a prophecy
00:32:23.04\00:32:25.01
or a topic
Christ-centered relational.
00:32:25.04\00:32:27.71
That's right. Pastor Ikner.
00:32:27.74\00:32:29.14
So I would say when you get down
00:32:29.18\00:32:30.71
to the 70 week, right,
00:32:30.75\00:32:32.11
you talk about Christ
being introduced, right?
00:32:32.15\00:32:34.95
He's shown up the anointed one,
the beginning of His ministry,
00:32:34.98\00:32:38.82
Him coming being
Immanuel, living amongst us,
00:32:38.85\00:32:42.06
being our Savior,
being our Deliverer.
00:32:42.09\00:32:44.83
We see in the middle of the week
00:32:44.86\00:32:46.46
He has cut off and yet
when you talk about mercy,
00:32:46.49\00:32:48.96
and you talk
about grace, I mean,
00:32:49.00\00:32:50.50
listen, maybe if I was God,
00:32:50.53\00:32:53.44
and you put me
on a cross, right?
00:32:53.47\00:32:56.00
And you crucify me and
kill me, I would be done,
00:32:56.04\00:32:59.47
but mercy and
grace of God beyond that,
00:32:59.51\00:33:01.71
He still extends it
another three and a half years
00:33:01.74\00:33:04.48
down to 34 AD,
00:33:04.51\00:33:05.88
still trying to give His
people another opportunity.
00:33:05.91\00:33:09.38
And if He would
give an opportunity then,
00:33:09.42\00:33:11.79
is that He's still giving
that same opportunity today,
00:33:11.82\00:33:15.29
our Messiah is still alive.
00:33:15.32\00:33:16.96
Okay, I can see the bridge.
00:33:16.99\00:33:18.33
That's beautiful
00:33:18.36\00:33:19.69
because as an
evangelist you say,
00:33:19.73\00:33:21.06
He gave all this
time to His own people
00:33:21.10\00:33:23.63
from the time that they
were let out of captivity,
00:33:23.67\00:33:26.63
from the time He
restored their city.
00:33:26.67\00:33:28.70
He wanted them to
catapult the gospel
00:33:28.74\00:33:31.04
and share Him to the world,
00:33:31.07\00:33:32.41
but they got bogged
down in all this time past.
00:33:32.44\00:33:35.71
And you ask
yourself now, pastor,
00:33:35.74\00:33:37.55
how much time has
passed in your life?
00:33:37.58\00:33:40.52
How many times have
Christ appealed to you?
00:33:40.55\00:33:42.65
So you see that
whole time period,
00:33:42.68\00:33:44.02
now we're all pastors
00:33:44.05\00:33:45.39
so we're kind of
evangelizing in the examples,
00:33:45.42\00:33:46.76
but that's what
you're doing there.
00:33:46.79\00:33:48.12
So you understand
that's the bridge.
00:33:48.16\00:33:49.49
That's the bridge.
00:33:49.52\00:33:50.86
That's the
bridge to talk about now
00:33:50.89\00:33:52.23
I can make an appeal to
accept Jesus Christ as my Savior
00:33:52.26\00:33:54.53
right in the middle
of the 70-week prophecy.
00:33:54.56\00:33:56.87
I don't have to wait
till the end of that,
00:33:56.90\00:33:59.17
you know, and it's all there.
00:33:59.20\00:34:00.54
Joe talked about
those last seven years.
00:34:00.57\00:34:03.34
Do I wanna spend 20, 30 minutes
00:34:03.37\00:34:05.81
trying to disprove a
seven-year tribulation period?
00:34:05.84\00:34:08.98
And though I will
talk about that some
00:34:09.01\00:34:10.95
or do I wanna take
what happened in the middle
00:34:10.98\00:34:12.91
of those seven years,
which is Christ crucified
00:34:12.95\00:34:15.68
and talk about the
last days of his life
00:34:15.72\00:34:17.65
and what Jesus has done for us,
00:34:17.69\00:34:19.69
and how we can
surrender our lives to Him,
00:34:19.72\00:34:22.79
what's delaying
me, what's delaying you
00:34:22.82\00:34:24.79
from accepting the
Messiah into your lives?
00:34:24.83\00:34:26.90
Yeah, go ahead.
00:34:26.93\00:34:28.26
And I would say,
00:34:28.30\00:34:29.63
even at the end
of that prophecy,
00:34:29.66\00:34:31.00
you know, while
we're living in a time
00:34:31.03\00:34:32.43
where there's so
much racial tension
00:34:32.47\00:34:34.10
with all this
happened with George Floyd
00:34:34.14\00:34:36.14
and Breonna Taylor and
all of these things, right?
00:34:36.17\00:34:39.47
This doctrine,
00:34:39.51\00:34:40.84
particularly when
you get to the end,
00:34:40.88\00:34:42.41
shows that God is
a God of all people
00:34:42.44\00:34:44.91
because He opens up
the 70-week prophecy
00:34:44.95\00:34:47.45
and He extends it beyond Jews,
He extends it to the Gentiles.
00:34:47.48\00:34:50.79
It's for everyone.
00:34:50.82\00:34:52.15
And so we see that
our God is a God of love,
00:34:52.19\00:34:54.06
that He loves everyone
00:34:54.09\00:34:55.42
that everyone is a part
00:34:55.46\00:34:58.19
that God is not exclusive,
00:34:58.23\00:35:01.43
but He's
inclusive of all people.
00:35:01.46\00:35:04.03
And that's the hope that
we need during this time.
00:35:04.07\00:35:06.23
That's right. I
mean, it's beautiful.
00:35:06.27\00:35:07.60
I love the way
you're doing that.
00:35:07.64\00:35:08.97
Not only is and
I'm looking at this,
00:35:09.00\00:35:10.61
I mean, my mind is just,
00:35:10.64\00:35:12.14
I'm from New York, my
mind is always moving,
00:35:12.17\00:35:14.38
but not only is He the
center of the 70th week,
00:35:14.41\00:35:18.08
He's the center
in three crosses.
00:35:18.11\00:35:21.65
And you ask the
people that are listening,
00:35:21.68\00:35:24.19
is Christ center in your life?
00:35:24.22\00:35:25.99
Or is He just
one of the three guys
00:35:26.02\00:35:27.72
that you have to pick from?
00:35:27.76\00:35:29.09
And so that's the
bridge you're talking about.
00:35:29.12\00:35:31.16
See, that's the beautiful
thing about evangelism.
00:35:31.19\00:35:33.43
We have a clip kind of
showing you illustrating
00:35:33.46\00:35:35.43
that in your sermon and
I really appreciate that.
00:35:35.46\00:35:37.40
Can we go to
that right now? Sure.
00:35:37.43\00:35:38.77
Let's go to that clip.
00:35:38.80\00:35:41.30
I remember doing a prophecy
seminar similar to this,
00:35:41.34\00:35:44.91
in Pennsylvania, my hometown,
where I grew up there in York.
00:35:44.94\00:35:49.08
And while I was there,
00:35:49.11\00:35:50.45
I got to meet so
many different people.
00:35:50.48\00:35:52.55
And I remember meeting Betty,
but that's not her real name,
00:35:52.58\00:35:56.35
but that's the
name we're going to use.
00:35:56.38\00:35:58.42
I remember Betty had come
to the meetings night by night.
00:35:58.45\00:36:01.72
And I had the
opportunity later on
00:36:01.76\00:36:03.56
to just visit her in her home.
00:36:03.59\00:36:05.56
And she was sharing
with me a story of her life
00:36:05.59\00:36:08.60
and just a little bit
about her spiritual journey.
00:36:08.63\00:36:12.07
And I remember she looked at me
00:36:12.10\00:36:13.44
and she said, "Pastor, I
need to ask you a question.
00:36:13.47\00:36:17.91
You see, I did
something horrible
00:36:17.94\00:36:19.51
many, many years ago.
00:36:19.54\00:36:21.94
And for a long-time,
00:36:21.98\00:36:23.31
I've just felt
so guilty about it.
00:36:23.35\00:36:25.65
I felt so bad.
00:36:25.68\00:36:27.02
I have felt that
I've never been forgiven.
00:36:27.05\00:36:29.25
I have just been wracked
00:36:29.28\00:36:30.62
by the burden of
guilt and regret.
00:36:30.65\00:36:33.39
And I just can't
seem to shake that burden,
00:36:33.42\00:36:36.29
that weight that's upon me."
00:36:36.32\00:36:39.43
I remember looking at her
00:36:39.46\00:36:40.80
and I asked
Betty, "I said, Betty,
00:36:40.83\00:36:42.80
have you ever just
talked to Jesus about it?"
00:36:42.83\00:36:45.70
And she said,
"No." That she hadn't.
00:36:45.73\00:36:48.10
You see, Betty
was used to talking
00:36:48.14\00:36:49.64
to earthly religious leaders.
00:36:49.67\00:36:51.81
And no matter how many times
00:36:51.84\00:36:53.27
she talked to a
religious leader,
00:36:53.31\00:36:54.81
no matter how many times
00:36:54.84\00:36:56.24
she may have
confessed to her priests,
00:36:56.28\00:36:58.15
she just never felt
that she was forgiven.
00:36:58.18\00:37:01.28
And it seemed as though
00:37:01.32\00:37:02.65
when she just
read repeated prayers
00:37:02.68\00:37:04.65
that were already listened,
00:37:04.69\00:37:06.02
she just felt she
wasn't connecting with God.
00:37:06.05\00:37:09.69
And I said, "Betty,
00:37:09.72\00:37:11.06
let me share something with you.
00:37:11.09\00:37:12.96
You know, the other
night we talked about Jesus
00:37:12.99\00:37:14.63
being our High Priest,
00:37:14.66\00:37:16.33
in the heavenly sanctuary
that that He intercedes for us.
00:37:16.36\00:37:19.20
He brings our prayers
to the throne room of God.
00:37:19.23\00:37:22.90
Betty, I wanna
invite you to do something.
00:37:22.94\00:37:25.54
Sometime this week,
just set an hour aside,
00:37:25.57\00:37:30.15
and I want you to go
up into your bedroom,
00:37:30.18\00:37:32.48
close the door.
00:37:32.51\00:37:34.35
I want you to
talk to Jesus about it.
00:37:34.38\00:37:37.12
Just pour out your heart.
00:37:37.15\00:37:38.99
Don't worry about the
kind of words that you use.
00:37:39.02\00:37:41.32
Don't worry about
your prayer being scripted,
00:37:41.36\00:37:43.53
just talk to Jesus
like He's your friend.
00:37:43.56\00:37:46.26
If you have to
cry, cry, it's okay.
00:37:46.29\00:37:49.13
If you have to
sob, sob, it's okay.
00:37:49.16\00:37:51.83
Just be real. Be genuine.
00:37:51.87\00:37:53.74
Just tell it to Jesus.
00:37:53.77\00:37:55.97
He wants to hear from you."
00:37:56.00\00:37:58.14
And she said,
"Okay, Pastor, I'll do it."
00:37:58.17\00:38:01.01
And I remember a
few nights later,
00:38:01.04\00:38:03.38
at the prophecy
seminar I saw Betty.
00:38:03.41\00:38:06.48
And I was able to go up to her
and say, "Betty, did you do it?
00:38:06.51\00:38:09.95
Did you set aside that time?
00:38:09.98\00:38:11.32
Did you talk to Jesus about it?"
00:38:11.35\00:38:13.76
I remember, she looked at
me and she said, "Yes, Pastor.
00:38:13.79\00:38:15.96
I did."
00:38:15.99\00:38:17.33
I said, "Betty, how
did it make you feel?"
00:38:17.36\00:38:20.40
And she said,
"Pastor, the weight is gone.
00:38:20.43\00:38:23.77
I finally sense forgiveness,
that shame, that guilt,
00:38:23.80\00:38:27.74
that request is
gone because I went
00:38:27.77\00:38:30.11
and I talked to Jesus about it.
00:38:30.14\00:38:31.71
I talked to my
High Priest about it.
00:38:31.74\00:38:33.61
I have been wiped
clean." Can you say amen?
00:38:33.64\00:38:36.81
I will never forget the
look of absolute peace and joy
00:38:36.85\00:38:40.98
on Betty's face
because for the first time
00:38:41.02\00:38:43.28
she experienced what
it meant to have Jesus
00:38:43.32\00:38:46.15
has her High Priest.
00:38:46.19\00:38:47.69
She experienced
what it meant to know
00:38:47.72\00:38:50.03
that a living Savior
was interceding for her
00:38:50.06\00:38:53.13
in a heavenly sanctuary.
00:38:53.16\00:38:57.07
Now that's the
passion of the gospel,
00:38:57.10\00:38:59.20
not just
presenting the factual Christ,
00:38:59.23\00:39:02.04
but the passion of Christ.
00:39:02.07\00:39:03.51
Praise the Lord, you
got some fire in there
00:39:03.54\00:39:05.44
from a guy from PA.
00:39:05.47\00:39:07.11
And that's the joy of the Lord.
00:39:07.14\00:39:09.41
Now what you wanna share
about what we just saw there?
00:39:09.44\00:39:11.31
We see that that cut,
there's kind of an example that
00:39:11.35\00:39:13.58
that was the message in
the 2300 days, you know,
00:39:13.62\00:39:15.82
Jesus, our High Priest
in a heavenly sanctuary.
00:39:15.85\00:39:18.39
And so often we get bogged
down with dates, etcetera,
00:39:18.42\00:39:21.79
which again, are fine, but
there was an example where,
00:39:21.82\00:39:26.19
when it talks about
Jesus being our High Priest,
00:39:26.23\00:39:28.36
now I can take a
bridge from that,
00:39:28.40\00:39:30.67
and I can talk about
what does that actually mean
00:39:30.70\00:39:32.93
that He's my High Priest
in the heavenly sanctuary?
00:39:32.97\00:39:35.27
Is that just intellectual?
00:39:35.30\00:39:36.64
What does that mean
00:39:36.67\00:39:38.01
for having a
relationship with Jesus?
00:39:38.04\00:39:39.37
So I tell the story about Betty.
00:39:39.41\00:39:41.38
And you can use
that as an opportunity
00:39:41.41\00:39:43.38
then we couldn't do
it there on that clip,
00:39:43.41\00:39:45.41
but now I can talk about
how do you talk to Jesus?
00:39:45.45\00:39:49.15
I can spend some time
teaching people in the series,
00:39:49.18\00:39:51.75
how do you pray?
00:39:51.79\00:39:53.12
How do you talk and connect
with Jesus in a real way?
00:39:53.15\00:39:55.52
So I can
transition from, you know,
00:39:55.56\00:39:57.39
1844 as important as that is,
00:39:57.43\00:39:59.89
but now I can also make
a bridge to teach people.
00:39:59.93\00:40:02.76
How can they connect
with their High Priest?
00:40:02.80\00:40:05.07
What are the principles
of learning how to pray,
00:40:05.10\00:40:07.80
and that's what
takes it from here
00:40:07.84\00:40:10.11
and brings it
here and makes it real.
00:40:10.14\00:40:12.34
Wow.
00:40:12.37\00:40:13.71
Pastor Ikner,
anything you wanna add to that?
00:40:13.74\00:40:15.08
So when I'm sitting
and I'm watching this clip,
00:40:15.11\00:40:18.18
it really kind of spoke to me
00:40:18.21\00:40:20.42
because when we
talk about the 2300 days,
00:40:20.45\00:40:22.75
we talk about the
investigative judgment.
00:40:22.78\00:40:24.92
So often we just talk about
00:40:24.95\00:40:26.62
the judgment and
judgment can be scary.
00:40:26.65\00:40:29.26
You talk about, you
know, when He comes in my name,
00:40:29.29\00:40:31.73
what if I'm not
ready, all those things
00:40:31.76\00:40:33.66
we've heard through the years.
00:40:33.70\00:40:35.10
And yet, even
though judgment it's true,
00:40:35.13\00:40:38.20
that there is
favor in the judgment,
00:40:38.23\00:40:40.37
and there's a
hope in the judgment.
00:40:40.40\00:40:42.20
And so I'm
sitting here thinking that
00:40:42.24\00:40:45.41
I have a High Priest,
00:40:45.44\00:40:47.08
who's also my judge,
who's working for me.
00:40:47.11\00:40:50.75
I think it gives hope to people
who struggle with knowing,
00:40:50.78\00:40:54.98
can God ever forgive me
or can I forgive myself?
00:40:55.02\00:40:58.35
I've got one who's been
tested in all points as I have,
00:40:58.39\00:41:01.79
yet done it without sin,
who's working to forgive me,
00:41:01.82\00:41:05.43
working on my behalf,
00:41:05.46\00:41:06.90
pleading His blood on my behalf.
00:41:06.93\00:41:09.50
It's awesome.
00:41:09.53\00:41:10.87
That's right, you
know, a lot of people,
00:41:10.90\00:41:12.60
years ago when
I was a young man,
00:41:12.63\00:41:15.24
and maybe this had been
00:41:15.27\00:41:16.64
how some people may have
thought they might think,
00:41:16.67\00:41:18.91
"Well, God is the judge.
00:41:18.94\00:41:20.84
And Jesus is
pleading with the judge
00:41:20.88\00:41:23.85
who wants to condemn us all."
00:41:23.88\00:41:25.21
Please don't do it.
00:41:25.25\00:41:26.58
Well, Jesus is the judge
00:41:26.61\00:41:28.02
and the learned
and the attorney.
00:41:28.05\00:41:31.15
He's our advocate.
00:41:31.19\00:41:33.05
And the most beautiful picture
00:41:33.09\00:41:34.42
I got many years
ago in the Roman court,
00:41:34.46\00:41:36.32
where he says, I'll
give you a white stone
00:41:36.36\00:41:37.89
with a new name on it.
00:41:37.93\00:41:39.29
And I like to point you made,
00:41:39.33\00:41:41.06
judgment is made in favor
of the saints of the Most High,
00:41:41.10\00:41:45.67
that's relational evangelism,
00:41:45.70\00:41:47.90
but now let's talk
about your ministry,
00:41:47.94\00:41:51.14
Discover Bible
Prophecy Ministry.
00:41:51.17\00:41:54.48
Let's talk about that.
00:41:54.51\00:41:56.68
That's the name of
our evangelistic ministry.
00:41:56.71\00:41:59.48
Our desire is
really to get even more
00:41:59.51\00:42:01.88
into media ministry,
00:42:01.92\00:42:03.25
what we'd really
like to see happen.
00:42:03.28\00:42:04.62
I mean, I serve as
the evangelism director
00:42:04.65\00:42:06.15
of Chesapeake,
that's my full-time job,
00:42:06.19\00:42:07.72
but I'm still an evangelist.
00:42:07.76\00:42:10.43
And one of the things
we'd really like to do
00:42:10.46\00:42:12.33
is like
Forecasting Hope that you saw,
00:42:12.36\00:42:14.73
right now they're on some
Christian television networks,
00:42:14.76\00:42:17.53
but one of our
passions and dreams is to be
00:42:17.57\00:42:19.87
able to put them on
some secular TV stations
00:42:19.90\00:42:22.67
on the weekend to really reach
maybe secular-minded people
00:42:22.70\00:42:26.07
or people that maybe
00:42:26.11\00:42:27.78
they're not
thinking about God right now,
00:42:27.81\00:42:30.01
but maybe spiritual things
are going through their mind
00:42:30.05\00:42:32.45
to just reach a
whole array of people.
00:42:32.48\00:42:34.58
And of course, as you know,
airtime is not free, you know,
00:42:34.62\00:42:36.72
particularly in
the secular world.
00:42:36.75\00:42:38.79
And then there's
always the need for, you know,
00:42:38.82\00:42:40.92
using some of the
graphics that we do,
00:42:40.96\00:42:42.29
graphics aren't free.
00:42:42.32\00:42:43.66
There's licensing
fees, and, you know,
00:42:43.69\00:42:45.43
if you want to be ethical,
00:42:45.46\00:42:46.80
there's licensing
fees and things like that.
00:42:46.83\00:42:48.86
And so that would
help in a great way
00:42:48.90\00:42:50.53
to make more
programming available.
00:42:50.57\00:42:52.67
And even to be able to go
00:42:52.70\00:42:54.04
to conference,
pastors' meetings,
00:42:54.07\00:42:56.27
and teach other pastors,
00:42:56.30\00:42:58.27
how can I present these
things in a Christ-centered way?
00:42:58.31\00:43:00.88
So that you can,
you know, in a sense,
00:43:00.91\00:43:03.01
duplicate yourself
through the Holy Spirit.
00:43:03.04\00:43:04.51
That's right.
00:43:04.55\00:43:05.88
I like that because
a lot of young pastors
00:43:05.91\00:43:07.25
coming up that are like
new race horses, you know,
00:43:07.28\00:43:10.49
they wanna get
out there and run.
00:43:10.52\00:43:12.25
And they're doctrine, doctrine,
doctrine, doctrine, doctrine,
00:43:12.29\00:43:14.72
and they might be
able to win an argument,
00:43:14.76\00:43:17.76
but to win the heart,
I remember Pastor Finley
00:43:17.79\00:43:19.43
talking about that.
00:43:19.46\00:43:20.80
He said, "You can win
the intellectual argument,
00:43:20.83\00:43:23.37
but you could leave
the heart stone cold."
00:43:23.40\00:43:25.63
So that's, I'm glad
you're thinking about that.
00:43:25.67\00:43:27.54
So, you know, for those
00:43:27.57\00:43:28.90
who may be watching the program,
00:43:28.94\00:43:30.41
you may be a pastor
or a young evangelists
00:43:30.44\00:43:33.98
or young person
that may wanna say,
00:43:34.01\00:43:36.78
"Well, I wanna
find out how to do that.
00:43:36.81\00:43:38.81
I'm at a very novice level.
00:43:38.85\00:43:41.62
I'd like to find out how
to get access to the tools.
00:43:41.65\00:43:43.69
We'll let you
know in just a moment
00:43:43.72\00:43:45.05
how you can do that,
00:43:45.09\00:43:46.45
but one of the
points you brought out
00:43:46.49\00:43:47.82
that I'd like to
appeal to the audience before,
00:43:47.86\00:43:49.76
you know, you wanna share about
00:43:49.79\00:43:51.13
your wife's
ministry, just briefly there.
00:43:51.16\00:43:53.86
There those of you that
00:43:53.90\00:43:55.23
as Pastor Klinedinst pointed out
00:43:55.26\00:43:58.20
to develop graphics,
to develop animation,
00:43:58.23\00:44:02.30
to use pictures, people
today we live in a society
00:44:02.34\00:44:05.77
where we wanna do
everything above board.
00:44:05.81\00:44:08.11
And a lot of times
people go on the internet
00:44:08.14\00:44:09.94
and copy a picture
that's not public domain
00:44:09.98\00:44:14.02
that belongs to
someone else and they drop it
00:44:14.05\00:44:16.22
into their
evangelistic presentations.
00:44:16.25\00:44:18.65
That's not
permissible for those of us
00:44:18.69\00:44:20.12
who are part of gospel.
00:44:20.16\00:44:21.72
We have to do
all things decently
00:44:21.76\00:44:23.22
and in order and legally.
00:44:23.26\00:44:25.69
And I know like
Adobe stock photo,
00:44:25.73\00:44:27.93
Shutterstock photo,
00:44:27.96\00:44:29.30
there are a lot of
companies out there
00:44:29.33\00:44:31.33
that provide this means,
00:44:31.37\00:44:32.73
but just give an idea
if somebody was saying,
00:44:32.77\00:44:35.40
"Well, I wanna donate
towards your ministry."
00:44:35.44\00:44:37.77
Give us some things
00:44:37.81\00:44:39.77
that you feel will be important,
00:44:39.81\00:44:41.34
not only just
the graphics needed
00:44:41.38\00:44:43.35
or the licensing fees,
00:44:43.38\00:44:45.15
but what are the ways can
people donate toward making
00:44:45.18\00:44:48.48
the Discover Bible
Prophecy School important?
00:44:48.52\00:44:50.79
Well, obviously
they can go to our...
00:44:50.82\00:44:52.15
Or successful.
00:44:52.19\00:44:53.52
They can go to our
website and donate through there
00:44:53.56\00:44:55.09
or mail it in, but again,
00:44:55.12\00:44:57.16
it'll help us to create
other programming not just,
00:44:57.19\00:45:00.26
of course, evangelistic series,
00:45:00.30\00:45:02.30
but also training tools that
will help train other pastors
00:45:02.33\00:45:05.73
how to be able to
present these things
00:45:05.77\00:45:08.97
because do you want just
one or two people doing it
00:45:09.00\00:45:11.01
or do you want a
whole army of pastors
00:45:11.04\00:45:13.07
or lay
evangelists or lay pastors,
00:45:13.11\00:45:15.44
being able to present
things in a Christ-centered way?
00:45:15.48\00:45:18.18
And we wanna turn people
on, you know, public evangelism,
00:45:18.21\00:45:20.75
in some places
has gotten a bad name
00:45:20.78\00:45:22.85
because of the way people
00:45:22.88\00:45:24.22
have heard it
presented or done before.
00:45:24.25\00:45:26.92
Our passion is to show
them no, it can be positive,
00:45:26.96\00:45:30.26
it can be Christ-centered,
00:45:30.29\00:45:32.26
and to just reignite
that passion for evangelism.
00:45:32.29\00:45:35.26
You know, even Jesus
doesn't kick down doors.
00:45:35.30\00:45:37.07
He says, "Behold, I
stand at the door and knock."
00:45:37.10\00:45:39.97
If you hear my
voice, and I like that,
00:45:40.00\00:45:41.94
not just the doctrines,
but are you listening for me
00:45:41.97\00:45:44.44
and we have to
present the voice of Christ.
00:45:44.47\00:45:46.34
Pastor Ikner.
00:45:46.37\00:45:47.71
Yeah, and I think
00:45:47.74\00:45:49.08
that's what's so
important in a day and age
00:45:49.11\00:45:52.25
where we have,
00:45:52.28\00:45:54.42
we know that the sign of the end
00:45:54.45\00:45:57.29
is that the gospel
will go to the entire world.
00:45:57.32\00:46:00.09
And then Jesus says,
the end will come, right?
00:46:00.12\00:46:03.99
And so Christ
has to be lifted up,
00:46:04.03\00:46:06.73
we have to have a
way to be able to share.
00:46:06.76\00:46:09.06
And I think that using
media and that, you know,
00:46:09.10\00:46:12.67
we don't know what
the future is gonna hold,
00:46:12.70\00:46:14.37
we don't know
00:46:14.40\00:46:15.74
when the end of this
pandemic is gonna come.
00:46:15.77\00:46:18.07
So, you know, being able to step
00:46:18.11\00:46:20.08
beyond the church
and inviting people
00:46:20.11\00:46:21.94
just to come to, you
know, into our doors.
00:46:21.98\00:46:25.81
That's why I like the
whole idea about media.
00:46:25.85\00:46:28.22
I like the whole
idea about this series.
00:46:28.25\00:46:30.79
And the other
series that are out there
00:46:30.82\00:46:32.32
where people can tune in
00:46:32.35\00:46:33.86
on various websites on Proclaim
00:46:33.89\00:46:36.12
or 3ABN or YouTube
or Facebook whatever
00:46:36.16\00:46:39.03
and be able to hear the gospel
from the comfort of their home
00:46:39.06\00:46:42.13
because we never know, the
Holy Spirit has the ability
00:46:42.16\00:46:45.17
to take what goes
out into the air ways
00:46:45.20\00:46:46.94
and media ways
00:46:46.97\00:46:48.30
and to bring souls unto himself.
00:46:48.34\00:46:49.80
That's right before we
reach out to our viewing
00:46:49.84\00:46:51.54
and listening audience.
00:46:51.57\00:46:52.91
You had to share
about your wife's ministry?
00:46:52.94\00:46:55.58
Yes. Yeah.
00:46:55.61\00:46:56.95
Of course, I'm very biased.
She's my favorite speaker.
00:46:56.98\00:46:59.91
But my wife's name is Marquita.
00:46:59.95\00:47:01.45
She has a ministry
called Moments With Jesus.
00:47:01.48\00:47:03.85
And she speaks a
lot at women's retreats,
00:47:03.89\00:47:05.89
prayer convocations,
prayer conferences,
00:47:05.92\00:47:08.52
and she loves to be
able to connect and speak
00:47:08.56\00:47:12.23
about how to genuinely connect
00:47:12.26\00:47:13.80
with Jesus in a practical
way, the power of prayer.
00:47:13.83\00:47:17.63
She's done her own
evangelistic meeting as well.
00:47:17.67\00:47:20.80
And people may
wanna go to that website
00:47:20.84\00:47:22.40
and see some of her resources.
00:47:22.44\00:47:23.77
I mean, right now,
00:47:23.81\00:47:25.14
she has a Friday
Night Live Bible study that
00:47:25.17\00:47:27.24
she does every Friday
night at 9 pm Eastern,
00:47:27.28\00:47:30.01
where they just go through
00:47:30.05\00:47:31.38
different Bible studies together
00:47:31.41\00:47:32.75
and people join in
00:47:32.78\00:47:34.12
from different
parts of the world.
00:47:34.15\00:47:35.48
So I just encourage people
00:47:35.52\00:47:36.85
to check out
MomentsWithJesus.org.
00:47:36.89\00:47:40.32
Now let's just give us summary
00:47:40.36\00:47:43.06
'cause one of the toughest
topics presented out there
00:47:43.09\00:47:46.23
is probably the
mark of the beast.
00:47:46.26\00:47:47.90
Give me a hint on how you make
00:47:47.93\00:47:49.40
the mark of the
beast Christ-centered?
00:47:49.43\00:47:52.23
Well, the first
thing I have to ask myself
00:47:52.27\00:47:54.07
is how would I feel on
the other side of the pew
00:47:54.10\00:47:57.71
if I didn't know these truths
00:47:57.74\00:47:59.21
about Sabbath
etcetera, and I'm hearing this.
00:47:59.24\00:48:01.98
Do I wanna
communicate to the other person,
00:48:02.01\00:48:03.95
they're less of a Christian
'cause they don't know this
00:48:03.98\00:48:06.01
or that God loves them any less
00:48:06.05\00:48:07.42
because I know the
truth and you don't,
00:48:07.45\00:48:09.75
I don't wanna communicate that.
00:48:09.78\00:48:11.55
What I wanna
communicate to them is,
00:48:11.59\00:48:13.15
here's some truth,
00:48:13.19\00:48:14.52
Jesus is leading
you on a journey.
00:48:14.56\00:48:16.22
Your relationship with Jesus
00:48:16.26\00:48:17.89
has been genuine all
the way up to this point.
00:48:17.93\00:48:20.30
And He's just
leading you in the next step.
00:48:20.33\00:48:22.53
And when it comes to, yes,
00:48:22.56\00:48:23.90
the mark of the
beast is a testing truth,
00:48:23.93\00:48:25.93
but what it really
comes down to is this,
00:48:25.97\00:48:27.80
it goes beyond just
the Sabbath Sunday issue.
00:48:27.84\00:48:30.87
It really comes
down to surrender.
00:48:30.91\00:48:34.44
And if I can take time
00:48:34.48\00:48:35.88
in the mark of
the beast message,
00:48:35.91\00:48:38.31
to talk about what
has Jesus done for me
00:48:38.35\00:48:40.45
how He surrendered in
the Garden of Gethsemane,
00:48:40.48\00:48:42.72
not My will, but
Thy will be done.
00:48:42.75\00:48:44.72
How He surrendered
His life on the cross,
00:48:44.75\00:48:46.52
how He gave up
heaven for you and me,
00:48:46.55\00:48:49.42
talk about Jesus surrender.
00:48:49.46\00:48:51.79
And then from there,
00:48:51.83\00:48:53.16
I can appeal Jesus
surrendered everything for us.
00:48:53.19\00:48:55.96
Are we willing to
surrender everything to Jesus,
00:48:56.00\00:48:59.13
our hearts including
00:48:59.17\00:49:00.60
our cherished
preconceived ideas.
00:49:00.64\00:49:02.87
Am I willing to surrender?
00:49:02.90\00:49:04.31
'Cause that's
really what it's all about.
00:49:04.34\00:49:05.67
Wow, that's
beautiful, surrender.
00:49:05.71\00:49:07.34
What do you say
about that, Pastor Joseph?
00:49:07.38\00:49:08.71
So I would say that
00:49:08.74\00:49:10.28
that the mark of the beast
with the antithesis of that
00:49:10.31\00:49:13.01
being the seal of God
00:49:13.05\00:49:14.38
kind of speaks to
our loyalty to God,
00:49:14.42\00:49:16.58
and the need to have a
relationship throughout,
00:49:16.62\00:49:18.72
as David has said.
00:49:18.75\00:49:20.09
So if I'm working
on relationship now,
00:49:20.12\00:49:21.89
when I'm faced with
this crisis, you know,
00:49:21.92\00:49:24.33
at all points and times,
00:49:24.36\00:49:25.99
our relationships are tested.
00:49:26.03\00:49:28.10
And it doesn't, the tests
don't create the relationship,
00:49:28.13\00:49:31.33
the crisis doesn't
create the relationship,
00:49:31.37\00:49:33.57
it really tells what
type of relationship we have.
00:49:33.60\00:49:36.57
So if I'm in that relationship,
00:49:36.60\00:49:38.74
then I'm gonna be
prepared for that moment.
00:49:38.77\00:49:40.41
And I also think, a lot of times
00:49:40.44\00:49:42.04
when we talk about
the mark of the beast,
00:49:42.08\00:49:43.41
we like to build
it around people,
00:49:43.45\00:49:45.61
but I think if we can show that
00:49:45.65\00:49:47.68
there is one
that want to interfere
00:49:47.72\00:49:50.02
with our relationship,
00:49:50.05\00:49:51.39
Satan himself that
this thing is bigger than
00:49:51.42\00:49:54.16
just flesh and blood, right?
00:49:54.19\00:49:56.16
And that we wanna make sure that
00:49:56.19\00:49:58.13
we keep Satan away
from our relationship,
00:49:58.16\00:50:00.40
the demons away
from our relationship,
00:50:00.43\00:50:02.40
and we wanna
stay close to Christ.
00:50:02.43\00:50:04.57
When we hit that moment,
00:50:04.60\00:50:06.77
we will be able to
overcome and be victorious.
00:50:06.80\00:50:08.57
That's right.
00:50:08.60\00:50:09.94
If people go to your website,
00:50:09.97\00:50:11.31
and I'll give
them that information
00:50:11.34\00:50:12.67
in just a moment,
what could they look for?
00:50:12.71\00:50:14.11
Are there media tools
there? Give us an idea?
00:50:14.14\00:50:16.98
They can order the
Forecasting Hope series,
00:50:17.01\00:50:19.31
which will be
obviously available very soon.
00:50:19.35\00:50:21.72
There is other
series that are on there.
00:50:21.75\00:50:24.29
There's other resources
they can take a look at,
00:50:24.32\00:50:26.32
they can watch
some of the things
00:50:26.35\00:50:27.79
that we have there on
our website, etcetera.
00:50:27.82\00:50:30.69
They can even
submit prayer requests,
00:50:30.73\00:50:32.76
and there's just a
lot of different things
00:50:32.79\00:50:34.13
that they can peruse through it
00:50:34.16\00:50:35.66
and wherever they can use
for their witnessing endeavors,
00:50:35.70\00:50:37.67
they're welcome to do so.
00:50:37.70\00:50:39.03
Wow. Well, I appreciate that.
00:50:39.07\00:50:40.74
We're gonna take a news
break in just a moment here,
00:50:40.77\00:50:42.77
but before we do
that, I wanna remind you
00:50:42.80\00:50:45.04
the address that you
need to use to get in touch
00:50:45.07\00:50:48.51
with Pastor David Klinedinst
is Discover Bible Prophecy.
00:50:48.54\00:50:53.18
And here's the
information that you need to be
00:50:53.21\00:50:55.78
able to get in touch
with this marvelous ministry
00:50:55.82\00:50:57.99
and find out how you
can not only financially,
00:50:58.02\00:51:00.79
but experientially
and maybe training
00:51:00.82\00:51:02.66
if that's something you need
00:51:02.69\00:51:04.13
can be a part
of your experience.
00:51:04.16\00:51:05.49
To find out more information
about Discover Bible Prophecy,
00:51:09.40\00:51:12.93
and how you might support them,
00:51:12.97\00:51:14.57
please contact
them at 855-774-HOPE.
00:51:14.60\00:51:19.87
That's 855-774-4673.
00:51:19.91\00:51:24.95
You may go to their website
at DiscoverBibleProphecy.org.
00:51:24.98\00:51:28.82
That's
DiscoverBibleProphecy.org.
00:51:28.85\00:51:32.52
You may also write to them
00:51:32.55\00:51:33.89
at PO Box 850,
Columbia, Maryland 21044.
00:51:33.92\00:51:39.86