As you're well aware,
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we're living in
unprecedented times.
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Join us now for
today's special program.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, and welcome to
another 3ABN Today program.
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I'm Jason
Bradley, and I'm so happy
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that you could join us
for this very important topic.
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We're going to
be discussing race,
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unity and collaboration
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between black and
white conferences.
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And with me to discuss
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this we have
Pastor David Klinedinst.
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And you are the
evangelism director
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of the Chesapeake Conference
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and also the AMPS
co-chair, welcome.
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And we have Pastor Bryan Mann,
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who is the Kansas City Bethel
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Seventh-day
Adventist church pastor
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and the AMPS co-chair.
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Welcome, good to
have you here. All right.
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And we have Pastor Vic
Van Shaik, did I say that?
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Yes, you did.
All right. All right.
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And he's the Indiana Conference
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of Seventh-day
Adventist Church president
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and the AMPS founder,
one of the AMPS founders.
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And we have Pastor Joseph
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Ikner, Kansas City
Central States Conference,
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and AMPS founder.
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All right, now we made
it through the introductions
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and now it's time
to jump in a little bit
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to the meat of the program.
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What does AMPS stand for?
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Anybody can answer me.
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Are you looking at
me, so I'll answer you.
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AMPS stands for
Adventist Ministers
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and Pastors of St. Louis,
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with ministers
actually being the laypeople
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in the churches of St. Louis,
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and the pastors being
are those who are employed
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by the conference as pastors.
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Okay. Okay.
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And how did it come about?
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Well, I guess that
story would begin with
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when I came there
to serve as evangelist.
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Technically I was
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with the Iowa
Missouri Conference.
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I specifically
remember there was one Sabbath,
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when I was thinking,
you know, I need to...
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I need to go
visit some of the other,
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some other brothers and
sisters within St. Louis.
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Because a lot of times in
a big city like St. Louis,
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churches don't
fellowship with each other,
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especially if they're
from different conferences.
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And I had the privilege
of going to the Berean Church
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there in St. Louis.
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So if anybody from Berean
is watching, we miss you guys.
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And being able to
worship with them,
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and met the pastor there.
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Eventually I met Pastor Joe,
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who became the pastor
there at the Berean Church.
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And that pretty much led
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into a time of
meeting together as pastors,
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having collaboration together,
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eventually went and
worshipped the North side,
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the largest
church of Central States
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that's in the St. Louis area.
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And I met Pastor Bryan Mann,
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and that just began
to form relationship.
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We all began meeting together,
bonding with each other,
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and bringing our
churches together.
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That's kind of
the summary of AMPS.
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Yes, yes, nice.
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What would you say...
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I'll give this
to you, Pastor Mann.
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What would you
say is the importance
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of that collaboration
and that coming together?
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Well, I think
that, first of all,
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it's actually
the coming together.
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Because as separate
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you don't have
really an understanding
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of who each other is,
what we are dealing with.
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But being able to meet,
come together, fellowship,
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then all of a sudden,
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we begin to look beyond
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just the surface
aspects of our ministry,
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the surface
aspects of our community.
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And we had an opportunity
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to really challenge each other
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about some of the
large issues of the day
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and I begin to
understand on a deeper level,
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and so it all began
with coming together.
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Yes.
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When you come together,
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then all of a sudden
you can have conversations
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that you could not have before.
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Yes, yes. And it removes...
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It removes assumptions,
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and you're actually able to have
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those conversations as you said.
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Pastor Vic, where do you
come into play in all of this?
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While I was pastoring
the St. Louis Central Church,
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which is downtown St. Louis,
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and had the privilege of working
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with my
colleagues there in the city.
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And when David was
sharing some of the dreams
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and desires of wanting
to get everybody together,
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it makes so much
sense as why wouldn't
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we want to do that?
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These are my
brothers, they're my, you know,
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I want to become
friends with them,
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be able to spend time with them.
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And I think the challenge
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is when you are
serving in a city
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which has multiple conferences,
is that we're all busy,
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and we all have
our different schedules
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and different events
that we have to go to
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with our own conferences.
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And there's not that
crossover that naturally happens
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when you work at
the same conference.
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So you have to be intentional.
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And so it's like, why
wouldn't we want to do this
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and so I have
really enjoyed my time,
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being able to work and
get to know these gentlemen
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and spend time with them.
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Not only in
meetings but in their homes,
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and we did
techniques and, you know,
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lots of
different things together.
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Yeah.
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So your family's
got the opportunity
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to meet each other and all that.
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Pastor Ikner, what about you?
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So in Central States
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we were already
meeting together as pastors,
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we had an
organization called SLAM.
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And we were already kind of
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doing collaborative
ministry among ourselves.
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And I remember that
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David set up a meeting
to come by Bryan's house.
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We didn't meet in the church.
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We didn't meet in an office.
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We met at Bryan's home,
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and it was no
conference initiative,
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there was no one that was coming
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and saying that
we had to do this.
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It was David
saying, "Hey, you know what,
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I've visited some
of these churches.
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I've been to Berean,
I've been in North side,
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I think that we
can come together
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and do ministry together."
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And one of the opportunities
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before us was
equipping university.
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And as we kind of
sat and talked about
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being able to do
ministry together,
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we kind of saw that, you know,
we would be stronger together
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than we were apart
doing collaborative ministry
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across conferences,
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even though we
were of different races,
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would make us stronger
in the area of St. Louis.
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And we all serve the same God.
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Absolutely. And
the same mission too.
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Same mission as well.
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Very, very important.
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Pastor
Klinedinst, in your childhood,
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did you ever
visit other churches
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like black churches, or...
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You know, what's strange is
I actually grew up in a very,
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very conservative,
predominantly Caucasian church.
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Okay.
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But yet I grew up
in the inner city,
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which meant I played ball,
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and with all different
races and nationalities.
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So to me, it was
just pretty natural to go
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and to connect
with other people.
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I mean, especially in St. Louis,
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two things that come
to my mind is, you know,
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a city of three million
people and there's many cities
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like that across North America.
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How are we going to
make an impact on a city
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if we're all doing
our own thing separate
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from each other?
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Yeah, we all have our
own separate mission fields
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and territories if you would.
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But to be able to
come together all races,
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all churches and cultures,
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what kind of an
impact can that make
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on a metropolitan city?
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And especially when it
comes to race relations,
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if we're trying to
show the community,
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you know, a society,
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"Hey, here's
what needs to happen."
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We have to model
within the church.
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Absolutely.
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And that first starts
by just coming together,
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building relationships,
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and then the Holy
Spirit will take it from there.
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Amen. Amen.
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So we touched a little
bit on some of the things
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that you've done
together in terms of picnics,
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and what are
some other activities
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that have been done together.
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Any of you can answer this?
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Well, you know, I would say,
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I think one of the
most amazing things was
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when we had joint
prayer meeting together.
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You know, it's hard
to get people in this day
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and age to come out
to a prayer meeting.
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But we invited
all of our churches,
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and I remember I think
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it was our first
joint prayer meeting
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was at my church Berean.
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And there were over 200 people
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that were there from
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different races
and nationalities
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and everyone was on
their knees praying together.
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And, you know,
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it's something when you
pray in your own church, right,
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and it's just a few of you.
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But it's powerful
when the entire city
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is coming together
to pray for one mission,
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for one purpose, and one
goal, and it doesn't matter,
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you know, what our nationalities
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or backgrounds are.
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Didn't matter
what church we attend,
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didn't matter what
conference we're from.
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We were all glad to be
there seeking our same God
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for the mission
that He has given to us.
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Amen.
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We have pictures of
that too, by the way.
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Yes.
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And I think another
interesting experience
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was at the end of the year,
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we would schedule a time
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when we come together
for communion service,
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a joint communion service,
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and we would spread that out,
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we would vary at times,
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sometimes it was North side,
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sometimes it was central
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and I think maybe we
did it at Berean as well.
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But as we would go to
the different churches,
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there's something special
and we all can come together
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whatever race we may be,
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whatever background we may be,
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and be able to
serve one another.
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And it really binds
your hearts together.
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Because you know,
Jesus is our model.
00:10:17.25\00:10:19.28
He's someone that brings
us, He's the healing agent.
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He's the one that
works in our hearts.
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So I think those
communion services
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and then the members
be able to experience that
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'cause they've
never done communion
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with maybe from someone
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from a different
conference before.
00:10:30.33\00:10:32.49
And to be able to
share that experience,
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I think was a very special time.
00:10:34.20\00:10:35.90
And washing feet together.
And washing feet together.
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That's beautiful.
00:10:37.60\00:10:38.93
Well, we have some pictures
of people praying together
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that we want to put up.
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We have two of those right
there now and where was that?
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That I believe is at
the St. Louis Central Church
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where we had city
wide prayer gatherings.
00:10:50.35\00:10:53.11
And so, you know, it
wasn't just people up front
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talking about prayer,
00:10:55.85\00:10:57.19
we actually
took significant time
00:10:57.22\00:10:59.19
where people from
different churches,
00:10:59.22\00:11:01.66
whether they're
from the same conference
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or a different conference
came together to pray.
00:11:03.09\00:11:06.53
And I think we all agree,
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we believe that was so powerful
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because it was a
movement led by the Holy Spirit.
00:11:09.93\00:11:13.50
And when people
come together to pray
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and you build
those relationships,
00:11:15.84\00:11:18.21
it's amazing the kind
of bonds that take place,
00:11:18.24\00:11:21.34
and then eventually you go
from fellowshipping together.
00:11:21.38\00:11:23.95
That's the first
part, but then we thought,
00:11:23.98\00:11:26.18
you know, we need to start doing
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ministry together in the city.
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And I believe that's where
God takes it to another level.
00:11:30.49\00:11:32.29
Yes.
00:11:32.32\00:11:33.66
So did you have like a
step by step type of thing
00:11:33.69\00:11:37.46
or did this just
kind of come to this?
00:11:37.49\00:11:39.29
It evolved. Okay.
00:11:39.33\00:11:40.66
It evolved as we would meet,
00:11:40.70\00:11:43.03
we would talk
about some of the needs
00:11:43.06\00:11:45.73
and what would be our next step
00:11:45.77\00:11:48.10
and it just became
00:11:48.14\00:11:50.31
in a grassroots organic movement
00:11:50.34\00:11:55.94
to help us navigate
00:11:55.98\00:12:00.92
in getting to know each other.
00:12:00.95\00:12:03.15
And I think for me,
00:12:03.18\00:12:05.02
when I look at all that AMPS is,
00:12:05.05\00:12:09.09
we're not talking about
00:12:09.12\00:12:11.63
changing a whole city or
even all of the churches.
00:12:11.66\00:12:15.46
But I think each of us,
we had the ability to talk
00:12:15.50\00:12:19.73
with individuals that felt
00:12:19.77\00:12:22.04
that God had
moved and allow them
00:12:22.07\00:12:25.57
to make a
connection with individuals
00:12:25.61\00:12:27.74
that they normally
would not communicate with
00:12:27.78\00:12:31.38
or spend time with
00:12:31.41\00:12:32.98
and we begin to see
each other as family
00:12:33.01\00:12:35.85
and that is so critical
in spending the time together
00:12:35.88\00:12:40.16
so that we can break
down some of the barriers
00:12:40.19\00:12:42.79
and the things
that we don't understand
00:12:42.82\00:12:45.79
about each other.
00:12:45.83\00:12:47.16
We've got to spend,
00:12:47.20\00:12:48.60
we've got to take
the time and invest.
00:12:48.63\00:12:52.60
It's not easy doing
00:12:52.63\00:12:54.34
the type of
ministry that we did,
00:12:54.37\00:12:56.17
and with all of us
having different churches,
00:12:56.20\00:13:00.54
we all had our own agendas,
00:13:00.58\00:13:02.34
we had the work that
00:13:02.38\00:13:04.28
we needed to do in
our specific church.
00:13:04.31\00:13:06.85
But it's worth
it to come together,
00:13:06.88\00:13:09.58
because we're
preparing for a kingdom
00:13:09.62\00:13:12.22
and a kingdom is
not just made up of that
00:13:12.25\00:13:15.66
particular
congregation in that church.
00:13:15.69\00:13:18.89
So it's critical for us
00:13:18.93\00:13:21.66
to get together
and to invest the time,
00:13:21.70\00:13:26.33
the effort, the commitment
in bringing people together,
00:13:26.37\00:13:30.97
so that we can
understand each other more.
00:13:31.01\00:13:33.17
Yeah, that's
right. Yeah. Go ahead.
00:13:33.21\00:13:34.81
Oh, no, I just going off
what Bryan said, you know,
00:13:34.84\00:13:37.28
I think doing this provided
00:13:37.31\00:13:39.31
an opportunity to
build the relationships
00:13:39.35\00:13:41.58
and that really does take time.
00:13:41.62\00:13:43.42
When you're in different venues,
00:13:43.45\00:13:44.79
different settings, when
you're in pastors' homes,
00:13:44.82\00:13:47.69
you're at church,
you're in meetings,
00:13:47.72\00:13:49.76
the more time that
you spend together,
00:13:49.79\00:13:51.39
the more the trust builds,
00:13:51.43\00:13:53.26
the more the
understanding builds,
00:13:53.29\00:13:55.66
you begin to listen
better of one another.
00:13:55.70\00:13:58.00
I still remember the
time we were at a picnic,
00:13:58.03\00:14:00.54
the pastors and our
families were together.
00:14:00.57\00:14:02.77
And Bryan...
00:14:02.80\00:14:04.54
It just happen, it
was just by chance.
00:14:04.57\00:14:06.47
We just started
walking together.
00:14:06.51\00:14:08.21
And for about 20, 25 minutes
00:14:08.24\00:14:09.74
as we're just
walking through the park,
00:14:09.78\00:14:11.18
he was sharing, I was sharing
00:14:11.21\00:14:12.55
some of the
struggles of ministry.
00:14:12.58\00:14:14.48
That wouldn't have happened
00:14:14.52\00:14:15.85
if we weren't
intentional in taking that time.
00:14:15.88\00:14:18.55
And so that just continued
to build that relationship.
00:14:18.59\00:14:21.89
And I want to say, I
felt like it was organic,
00:14:21.92\00:14:25.66
it was not forced.
00:14:25.69\00:14:28.06
And I think it's true
00:14:28.10\00:14:29.43
because God has
made us a promise
00:14:29.46\00:14:31.53
that in 2
Chronicles 7:14, right?
00:14:31.57\00:14:34.04
"If My people will pray..."
00:14:34.07\00:14:35.54
We started with prayer, right?
00:14:35.57\00:14:36.97
"That he would
begin to heal our land."
00:14:37.01\00:14:38.74
And so we had
equipping university,
00:14:38.77\00:14:40.81
we had the
joint prayer meetings,
00:14:40.84\00:14:42.18
we had the joint
worship events together
00:14:42.21\00:14:45.21
where we came and
we had AMPS Sabbaths
00:14:45.25\00:14:46.98
and those type of things.
00:14:47.02\00:14:48.35
But I think that
when Michael Brown
00:14:48.38\00:14:51.72
was killed in Ferguson,
00:14:51.75\00:14:55.16
and that uproar broke out there,
00:14:55.19\00:14:58.33
it created an
opportunity for us.
00:14:58.36\00:15:00.80
We could have shied away
00:15:00.83\00:15:02.16
because those conversations
00:15:02.20\00:15:03.53
sometimes are difficult to have.
00:15:03.57\00:15:05.97
And we knew we need
to have that conversation
00:15:06.00\00:15:08.10
among our congregations
and with our members.
00:15:08.14\00:15:11.41
But I remember us
gathering together
00:15:11.44\00:15:13.71
in Bryan's office at North side,
00:15:13.74\00:15:15.84
you all remember that?
00:15:15.88\00:15:17.21
Yes.
00:15:17.25\00:15:18.58
And we just had a
conversation and talked about
00:15:18.61\00:15:20.82
what it was like
to be black in America
00:15:20.85\00:15:22.68
and listening to
one another's stories
00:15:22.72\00:15:24.99
and talking
about our experiences,
00:15:25.02\00:15:27.22
and being
vulnerable and transparent
00:15:27.26\00:15:29.86
drew us closer together,
00:15:29.89\00:15:31.36
that created the
opportunity for us
00:15:31.39\00:15:33.23
to be able to have
that same type of ministry,
00:15:33.26\00:15:35.46
and to have an event that
I think we can talk about,
00:15:35.50\00:15:38.57
you know, on race, and unity,
00:15:38.60\00:15:41.14
and healing, and reconciliation.
00:15:41.17\00:15:43.10
Yes. Yes.
00:15:43.14\00:15:44.57
And so I wanna, I
want to add to that,
00:15:44.61\00:15:45.97
one of the things that
made that conversation possible
00:15:46.01\00:15:48.74
is we had already built
a relationship together.
00:15:48.78\00:15:51.45
We didn't come
together because of something
00:15:51.48\00:15:53.18
that happened at St. Louis,
00:15:53.21\00:15:54.78
the spirit already lead in that.
00:15:54.82\00:15:56.79
And see, what
sometimes maybe happens
00:15:56.82\00:15:58.45
now is people were forced
to talk about race relations,
00:15:58.49\00:16:01.62
you have no relationship
with each other or connection.
00:16:01.66\00:16:04.63
And that makes it
much more difficult.
00:16:04.66\00:16:05.99
Yes.
00:16:06.03\00:16:07.36
But when you
already have relationship
00:16:07.40\00:16:08.73
and you're coming together,
00:16:08.76\00:16:10.13
even if you don't
see everything perfectly
00:16:10.17\00:16:12.30
the same way,
00:16:12.33\00:16:13.67
you've already got
that bond of trust,
00:16:13.70\00:16:15.80
and that's a big
deal, that's a big deal.
00:16:15.84\00:16:18.01
Yeah, that makes
a huge difference.
00:16:18.04\00:16:19.37
And, Jason, I just want
to kind of reiterate too
00:16:19.41\00:16:21.21
and it was already
been mentioned that
00:16:21.24\00:16:22.94
this was more
grassroots, it was organic,
00:16:22.98\00:16:25.58
because if it was
conference driven,
00:16:25.61\00:16:27.88
you know, you come with it
from a different perspective,
00:16:27.92\00:16:30.22
this is an expectation
that our administrators have,
00:16:30.25\00:16:33.25
and maybe the relationships
00:16:33.29\00:16:34.79
would be a little
bit more superficial,
00:16:34.82\00:16:36.22
because you're
kind of brought together
00:16:36.26\00:16:38.33
because you've
been asked to do that.
00:16:38.36\00:16:39.96
But when it happens organically
00:16:40.00\00:16:42.20
and it's something you
just desire to want to do,
00:16:42.23\00:16:44.43
and be able to fellowship,
00:16:44.47\00:16:45.80
and build these
friendships on the natural way,
00:16:45.83\00:16:48.00
that's the
beauty of this, I think.
00:16:48.04\00:16:50.27
Yes.
00:16:50.31\00:16:51.64
It's like the difference between
00:16:51.67\00:16:53.01
being in school and
having a group project
00:16:53.04\00:16:54.88
and then the teacher
picking your partners
00:16:54.91\00:16:57.18
and all of that stuff,
00:16:57.21\00:16:58.55
as opposed to you
getting to make the choice.
00:16:58.58\00:17:01.32
And it sounds like
that made the difference,
00:17:01.35\00:17:04.72
and it's taking you
guys through the distance.
00:17:04.75\00:17:08.82
What have you seen in
terms of like testimonies,
00:17:08.86\00:17:13.70
as a result of bringing
the conferences together?
00:17:13.73\00:17:18.43
I know one of the things
that we constantly heard,
00:17:18.47\00:17:21.40
especially after the first
equipping university event,
00:17:21.44\00:17:24.57
and for those who don't
know, equipping university,
00:17:24.61\00:17:26.88
that was a lay training
thing that we did in St. Louis,
00:17:26.91\00:17:30.51
and just brought all
the churches together.
00:17:30.55\00:17:32.61
The very first one we did,
00:17:32.65\00:17:34.58
I can remember
many of us pastors,
00:17:34.62\00:17:36.69
our members would say to us,
00:17:36.72\00:17:38.05
"You know what, we
need to do this again,
00:17:38.09\00:17:39.62
we need to keep
getting together like this."
00:17:39.65\00:17:41.92
This was something
special, we felt God moving,
00:17:41.96\00:17:44.93
and they
actually wanted to do it,
00:17:44.96\00:17:46.96
and then started developing
relationships with each other.
00:17:47.00\00:17:49.66
So it went beyond, it
started with the pastors,
00:17:49.70\00:17:52.47
we had to provide
the leadership of us
00:17:52.50\00:17:54.07
coming together, but
then we gave our churches
00:17:54.10\00:17:56.64
the opportunity
to come together.
00:17:56.67\00:17:58.61
And again, that just
took to a whole new level.
00:17:58.64\00:18:00.98
Yes.
00:18:01.01\00:18:02.34
You know, the thing is, is that
00:18:02.38\00:18:04.01
we just don't come
together just to come together,
00:18:04.05\00:18:07.02
because ultimately the plan
00:18:07.05\00:18:09.08
is to be able to share
the gospel with everyone.
00:18:09.12\00:18:12.72
And since we're
doing urban ministry,
00:18:12.75\00:18:15.99
it's important for
us to learn how to reach
00:18:16.02\00:18:19.26
everyone in our
community, everyone in our city,
00:18:19.29\00:18:25.10
we need to be able to reach them
00:18:25.13\00:18:27.24
and not to look to someone else
00:18:27.27\00:18:29.70
to win someone that's
living next door to me.
00:18:29.74\00:18:32.74
And so we came together
00:18:32.77\00:18:35.78
so that we could
understand each other
00:18:35.81\00:18:37.55
and when
difficult things happen,
00:18:37.58\00:18:39.71
like with a
surrounding Mike Brown's death,
00:18:39.75\00:18:44.15
we would not have been
able to navigate through that
00:18:44.19\00:18:48.02
without having
come together before.
00:18:48.06\00:18:51.79
So that we had a relationship
00:18:51.83\00:18:53.90
because there was some
very difficult conversations
00:18:53.93\00:18:57.30
that we had to have and so,
00:18:57.33\00:18:59.27
in regards to
reaching out to our community,
00:18:59.30\00:19:03.97
we have to find a way again.
00:19:04.01\00:19:07.68
I go back again to say
that we've got to come together
00:19:07.71\00:19:11.45
because until we develop
00:19:11.48\00:19:13.31
those relationships,
close relationships,
00:19:13.35\00:19:16.48
we can't ask the hard questions,
00:19:16.52\00:19:18.49
and we will
never be able to deal
00:19:18.52\00:19:20.92
with some of the difficulties
that arise around us
00:19:20.96\00:19:25.83
unless we have
the ability to know.
00:19:25.86\00:19:29.26
I know you're Christian, David,
I know that he's a Christian.
00:19:29.30\00:19:32.40
And so, if
that's his foundation,
00:19:32.43\00:19:35.40
if that's our foundation,
00:19:35.44\00:19:36.84
that we know each other
that we're both Christians,
00:19:36.87\00:19:40.28
we can work from there.
00:19:40.31\00:19:41.64
Yeah, our identity is in Christ.
00:19:41.68\00:19:43.45
And if I could add,
00:19:43.48\00:19:45.35
I think the experienced
that we had in St. Louis.
00:19:45.38\00:19:49.82
When I left St. Louis
and came to Kansas City,
00:19:49.85\00:19:53.02
Bryan followed behind
in Kansas City, Kansas,
00:19:53.05\00:19:55.59
I'm in Kansas City, Missouri.
00:19:55.62\00:19:57.69
It created the opportunity
for us to do it again
00:19:57.73\00:20:00.56
and reduplicate it.
00:20:00.60\00:20:01.96
And so working
with Shawnee Mission,
00:20:02.00\00:20:03.83
which is now Advent
Health hospital in Kansas City.
00:20:03.87\00:20:07.74
We brought our
conferences together,
00:20:07.77\00:20:10.17
Kansas, Nebraska,
00:20:10.21\00:20:11.57
Iowa, Missouri,
and Central States,
00:20:11.61\00:20:13.78
we worshipped together
for the first time ever,
00:20:13.81\00:20:17.78
where we all came together
00:20:17.81\00:20:19.15
as Central States Conference,
00:20:19.18\00:20:20.52
G. Alexander
Gymnasium, 1,200 people,
00:20:20.55\00:20:24.75
1,200 Adventists came
together black, white,
00:20:24.79\00:20:27.79
Hispanic, Mexican, Chinese,
00:20:27.82\00:20:32.06
people from every different
nationality coming together.
00:20:32.09\00:20:34.90
And we did evangelism
together some years ago
00:20:34.93\00:20:38.23
with It is Written
with John Bradshaw,
00:20:38.27\00:20:40.44
and it was just a
wonderful experience.
00:20:40.47\00:20:42.27
But I think the impetus,
00:20:42.30\00:20:44.27
the catalyst to
drawing for that,
00:20:44.31\00:20:46.21
all started in St. Louis.
00:20:46.24\00:20:49.01
And so, you know,
it gave us the ability
00:20:49.04\00:20:51.11
to not only just do it once,
00:20:51.15\00:20:53.45
but to continue
to reduplicate it.
00:20:53.48\00:20:54.95
Yes.
00:20:54.98\00:20:56.32
And it's still
happening in Kansas City today.
00:20:56.35\00:20:57.69
Yes.
00:20:57.72\00:20:59.05
You know, I
think interesting too
00:20:59.09\00:21:00.42
at the church that I
pastor, St. Louis Central,
00:21:00.46\00:21:01.79
is a very, very diverse church.
00:21:01.82\00:21:04.13
But many of the members
just never had the opportunity
00:21:04.16\00:21:06.96
to be able to worship
00:21:07.00\00:21:08.33
and go into the other churches,
00:21:08.36\00:21:09.70
you know, for various reasons.
00:21:09.73\00:21:11.07
And so, one of the
things that this provided is
00:21:11.10\00:21:13.23
for them to be
able to be exposed
00:21:13.27\00:21:14.87
and build relationships
outside of their own church.
00:21:14.90\00:21:17.87
And I saw, I heard
several members say
00:21:17.91\00:21:19.67
how much they
enjoyed getting to know
00:21:19.71\00:21:21.78
other people from
other churches that...
00:21:21.81\00:21:24.15
in the same city,
00:21:24.18\00:21:25.51
Adventists
sharing the same mission,
00:21:25.55\00:21:27.12
but it's never really
spending that time together.
00:21:27.15\00:21:28.88
So joint communions,
joint prayer meetings,
00:21:28.92\00:21:31.99
evangelistic meetings,
00:21:32.02\00:21:34.09
it really helped them to expose
00:21:34.12\00:21:36.46
to the broader
Adventist community
00:21:36.49\00:21:38.83
and the strengths
that come from that,
00:21:38.86\00:21:40.63
you know, the
different worship styles,
00:21:40.66\00:21:42.70
different ways of thinking,
00:21:42.73\00:21:44.63
it really helped us to
grow, I think spiritually.
00:21:44.67\00:21:48.07
I love that
joint communion thing.
00:21:48.10\00:21:50.07
Were you going to say, pastor?
00:21:50.11\00:21:51.44
And even the pulpit
swaps were powerful.
00:21:51.47\00:21:53.88
David came and he
preached at Berean,
00:21:53.91\00:21:56.11
and I preached at
Central and all of us
00:21:56.14\00:21:59.25
kind of intermingled
at different churches
00:21:59.28\00:22:01.38
and just got to
know, you know, each other.
00:22:01.42\00:22:04.62
And I think the
powerful thing was that,
00:22:04.65\00:22:07.39
you know, we started with
just being in relationship
00:22:07.42\00:22:09.86
with each other.
00:22:09.89\00:22:11.23
And then that led to ministry,
00:22:11.26\00:22:14.00
you know, and
then from ministry,
00:22:14.03\00:22:15.60
it lead for all of our churches,
00:22:15.63\00:22:17.20
you know, being
able to come together.
00:22:17.23\00:22:18.57
I think that's the
blueprint. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:18.60\00:22:20.40
And that's how
it is with Christ.
00:22:20.44\00:22:22.10
Like our
relationship with Christ,
00:22:22.14\00:22:23.47
we have to start
with the relationship.
00:22:23.51\00:22:25.81
You know, I think
so often, you know,
00:22:25.84\00:22:28.61
people try and
introduce people to tofu
00:22:28.64\00:22:30.95
and this and
that, and all of this
00:22:30.98\00:22:33.72
and the health
message and all of that.
00:22:33.75\00:22:36.12
But if you don't know
the person or, you know,
00:22:36.15\00:22:39.79
the God that you're doing it
for out of that relationship,
00:22:39.82\00:22:44.16
then it's just kind of rules
00:22:44.19\00:22:46.19
and not the relationship aspect.
00:22:46.23\00:22:48.63
I think that's very important.
00:22:48.66\00:22:51.03
You know, it's
not a quick fix. Yes.
00:22:51.07\00:22:54.87
Getting to know each
other and coming together
00:22:54.90\00:22:57.97
and having different
events, it's not a quick fix.
00:22:58.01\00:23:01.48
We...
00:23:01.51\00:23:03.65
It takes a lot of
effort, it takes commitment.
00:23:03.68\00:23:08.15
But when all of that effort
00:23:08.18\00:23:10.59
and that commitment is placed
00:23:10.62\00:23:13.22
with us knowing
00:23:16.73\00:23:18.06
or with us trying to bring
00:23:18.09\00:23:22.60
ourselves together
to know Jesus Christ
00:23:22.63\00:23:25.53
and to share Jesus Christ,
00:23:25.57\00:23:27.94
then it becomes profitable,
00:23:27.97\00:23:31.71
and you start to see
the fruit of that labor.
00:23:31.74\00:23:35.31
When Joe had mentioned
00:23:35.34\00:23:36.68
that 1,200 people came together,
00:23:36.71\00:23:40.85
those 1,200
people, they came together,
00:23:40.88\00:23:42.82
it was successful,
00:23:42.85\00:23:44.52
but there were a
lot of conversations
00:23:44.55\00:23:46.25
out of that,
there were, you know,
00:23:46.29\00:23:47.72
people that say, you know,
they had different questions,
00:23:47.76\00:23:51.59
you know, they wondered about
00:23:51.63\00:23:54.40
why we had all of
the people together
00:23:54.43\00:23:57.40
and so just
having one huge event
00:23:57.43\00:24:02.40
and people saying, "Well,
we had a lot of people out."
00:24:02.44\00:24:05.44
It did not do what...
00:24:05.47\00:24:08.74
It didn't take
us to the end game.
00:24:08.78\00:24:10.25
Got you.
00:24:10.28\00:24:11.61
And the end game, you know,
00:24:11.65\00:24:12.98
I think we'll get
there when we get to heaven.
00:24:13.01\00:24:16.15
But day by day,
00:24:16.18\00:24:17.99
we've got to keep
developing those relationships,
00:24:18.02\00:24:21.72
meeting together so
that a group of people
00:24:21.76\00:24:25.26
come together, five,
or ten, or two, or three,
00:24:25.29\00:24:28.70
and then all of a
sudden they begin to talk
00:24:28.73\00:24:30.83
and then it begins to spread,
00:24:30.87\00:24:33.07
and they understand
that we're all the same.
00:24:33.10\00:24:36.74
We love the same God
00:24:36.77\00:24:38.47
and we've got to come together
00:24:38.51\00:24:40.71
so that we can win
souls into God's kingdom.
00:24:40.74\00:24:43.55
Amen. Amen.
00:24:43.58\00:24:44.91
You know, one
thing that was unique
00:24:44.95\00:24:46.28
or still is unique
about St. Louis is actually...
00:24:46.31\00:24:48.88
It's a large city,
3.5 million people,
00:24:48.92\00:24:51.32
but there's three
conferences and two unions.
00:24:51.35\00:24:53.92
And so sometimes structure
00:24:53.96\00:24:55.79
can just lead us to
do our own thing and so,
00:24:55.82\00:25:00.30
but structure shouldn't stop us
00:25:00.33\00:25:02.50
from working together
to spend time together.
00:25:02.53\00:25:05.30
And that's kind of
the beauty of this,
00:25:05.33\00:25:07.04
even though there
were three conferences,
00:25:07.07\00:25:08.40
we did different
agendas, different schedules,
00:25:08.44\00:25:10.87
different camp
meetings, and various things.
00:25:10.91\00:25:13.07
But pastors and members
went beyond just the structure.
00:25:13.11\00:25:17.25
So that's not going to stop us.
00:25:17.28\00:25:18.91
We're going to
spend time together,
00:25:18.95\00:25:20.28
fellowshipping together.
00:25:20.32\00:25:22.18
So there is no reason why...
00:25:22.22\00:25:23.55
Even though if you
have two conferences,
00:25:23.59\00:25:25.25
three conferences,
00:25:25.29\00:25:26.62
there's no reason why
we can't come together.
00:25:26.65\00:25:28.12
Absolutely.
00:25:28.16\00:25:29.72
And I know that we
are running lower on time,
00:25:29.76\00:25:32.66
and you guys have to leave us
00:25:32.69\00:25:34.36
but we'll be joined by
two other special guests
00:25:34.40\00:25:37.33
that we'll have
in just a moment.
00:25:37.37\00:25:39.13
But before we do, I know that
00:25:39.17\00:25:41.70
you wanted to say one
more thing, Pastor Ikner.
00:25:41.74\00:25:44.11
You know, and I would say
00:25:44.14\00:25:45.81
if we want
change in our churches
00:25:45.84\00:25:47.81
and in our communities,
00:25:47.84\00:25:49.31
we can't wait
00:25:49.34\00:25:50.95
for the
conferences to do that for us,
00:25:50.98\00:25:53.25
we can't wait for leadership,
00:25:53.28\00:25:54.62
it has to be a
grass root effort.
00:25:54.65\00:25:57.15
And so I would
say to our pastors,
00:25:57.19\00:25:58.69
I would say to our members,
00:25:58.72\00:26:00.06
this is the time to begin
to have those conversations,
00:26:00.09\00:26:03.16
start meeting,
start talking together,
00:26:03.19\00:26:05.26
start coming together, why not?
00:26:05.29\00:26:07.43
You know God loves diversity.
00:26:07.46\00:26:09.60
He created it.
00:26:09.63\00:26:10.97
And we're stronger
together than we are apart.
00:26:11.00\00:26:13.80
Amen. Amen.
00:26:13.84\00:26:15.17
Thank you for
your contributions.
00:26:15.20\00:26:17.11
We're going to be blessed
00:26:17.14\00:26:18.47
in song at this
time by Kendol Bacchus,
00:26:18.51\00:26:20.78
and it is
entitled "In it After All."
00:26:20.81\00:26:23.21
Thank you for that
beautiful song, Kendol.
00:30:34.70\00:30:36.93
We are joined by
Pastor Robb Long,
00:30:36.97\00:30:40.54
who's the Indiana Conference,
00:30:40.57\00:30:42.24
he's a pastor in
the Indiana Conference,
00:30:42.27\00:30:44.31
evangelism director
00:30:44.34\00:30:45.87
of Carmel
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:30:45.91\00:30:48.24
and AMPS founder.
00:30:48.28\00:30:50.31
And then we have,
Elder Abraham Weekes
00:30:50.35\00:30:52.91
and the AMPS chairperson.
00:30:52.95\00:30:55.38
Welcome. Good to be here.
00:30:55.42\00:30:57.19
Good to have you guys here.
00:30:57.22\00:30:58.82
So I'm looking
forward to hearing from you.
00:30:58.85\00:31:01.26
We've been talking about AMPS
00:31:01.29\00:31:04.16
and the different things
that have been taking place
00:31:04.19\00:31:06.43
in terms of fellowship
00:31:06.46\00:31:07.80
and communion and
all of these things.
00:31:07.83\00:31:10.40
But what has your
experience been with AMPS?
00:31:10.43\00:31:14.60
Well, I came to St. Louis
00:31:14.64\00:31:16.27
and AMPS was already started
00:31:16.30\00:31:18.01
and I was already meeting,
00:31:18.04\00:31:19.91
so when I arrived to
be pastor of evangelism
00:31:19.94\00:31:23.81
for the St. Louis Central,
and Mid Rivers churches.
00:31:23.85\00:31:28.25
I'd heard about AMPS,
00:31:28.28\00:31:29.62
and so I just
naturally started attending
00:31:29.65\00:31:32.95
those monthly meetings.
00:31:32.99\00:31:34.72
It wasn't required, you know,
00:31:34.76\00:31:36.42
wouldn't say this is some
part of your job responsibility
00:31:36.46\00:31:39.63
here was totally optional.
00:31:39.66\00:31:42.00
But I liked what I heard,
and I was happy to hear that
00:31:42.03\00:31:45.00
conferences where
we're working together
00:31:45.03\00:31:48.54
and black and white
pastors were coming together
00:31:48.57\00:31:51.51
and I wanted to be part of that,
00:31:51.54\00:31:52.87
so I began attending
the monthly meetings,
00:31:52.91\00:31:56.24
participating in
the outreach programs,
00:31:56.28\00:31:59.28
we did planning together.
00:31:59.31\00:32:01.45
You know, I think
about our annual convocation
00:32:01.48\00:32:05.05
we had in the summertime
00:32:05.09\00:32:06.42
and we had to come
together and talk about,
00:32:06.45\00:32:08.39
what's our theme
going to be this year?
00:32:08.42\00:32:11.03
Who's going to be the speaker?
00:32:11.06\00:32:13.16
What are our breakout
sessions going to look like?
00:32:13.19\00:32:15.26
What are we really
trying to accomplish here?
00:32:15.30\00:32:17.57
And just getting
the input, you know,
00:32:17.60\00:32:19.23
working through that together,
00:32:19.27\00:32:21.17
and then seeing it
all come to fruition.
00:32:21.20\00:32:23.14
I mean, it was such a blessing
to have those convocations,
00:32:23.17\00:32:27.51
like minicamp meetings,
00:32:27.54\00:32:29.04
and people from
all over the city
00:32:29.08\00:32:30.41
coming together,
00:32:30.45\00:32:31.78
highlighted by great
speakers, great music,
00:32:31.81\00:32:34.22
and it was a real
high time in my experience
00:32:34.25\00:32:37.19
there in St. Louis was
just those camp meetings
00:32:37.22\00:32:40.59
that were well planned
and thought out together.
00:32:40.62\00:32:42.72
Amen. Elder
Weekes, what about you?
00:32:42.76\00:32:44.89
Well, I'm coming
00:32:44.93\00:32:46.26
from the
perspective of the layperson.
00:32:46.29\00:32:48.33
Okay.
00:32:48.36\00:32:49.70
Having been the beneficiary
of the relationships developed
00:32:49.73\00:32:54.67
among the pastors
and working through
00:32:54.70\00:32:57.27
the different
programs that they have.
00:32:57.31\00:32:59.47
And one of the things
that came to my mind was that
00:32:59.51\00:33:03.01
the practicalities of
Adventist pastoral ministry,
00:33:03.04\00:33:08.88
you know, we move
on every few years.
00:33:08.92\00:33:12.52
And I looked at this,
00:33:12.55\00:33:13.89
all the relationships
that had been developed,
00:33:13.92\00:33:16.16
and the dynamic that that
was had amongst this group,
00:33:16.19\00:33:21.46
the leadership group.
00:33:21.50\00:33:23.10
And I thought, "Well,
what happens when they leave?"
00:33:23.13\00:33:26.33
And so I did ask that question
00:33:26.37\00:33:28.54
and talked a bit
about getting laypeople
00:33:28.57\00:33:34.24
involved at every
level of this program.
00:33:34.28\00:33:38.81
So I'm glad to see
that has happened a bit,
00:33:38.85\00:33:43.12
needs to be more.
00:33:43.15\00:33:44.62
And in fact, when
we get to the end,
00:33:44.65\00:33:45.99
we talk about some of the things
00:33:46.02\00:33:47.52
that anyone thinking about
00:33:47.56\00:33:49.66
pursuing this
type of relationship.
00:33:49.69\00:33:52.39
That's one of the
things I would add.
00:33:52.43\00:33:54.00
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:33:54.03\00:33:56.46
So I want to ask this
question to the pastors.
00:33:56.50\00:34:00.77
One, how do you
prepare your sermons?
00:34:00.80\00:34:03.61
And two, is there a difference
00:34:03.64\00:34:06.01
when you're
speaking in another pulpit?
00:34:06.04\00:34:09.48
Let's say if you're
white going to a black pulpit
00:34:09.51\00:34:11.98
or black going
to the white church?
00:34:12.01\00:34:15.68
For me, it's no
difference in preparing.
00:34:15.72\00:34:18.59
When I would preach at
the Central States churches,
00:34:18.62\00:34:20.92
in Bryan's
church or Joe's church,
00:34:20.96\00:34:22.96
I would love it
because number one,
00:34:22.99\00:34:25.19
I'm normally loud anyway,
00:34:25.23\00:34:26.80
and I can be
loud in their churches
00:34:26.83\00:34:29.23
and so I'd preach
longer, and that's okay there.
00:34:29.26\00:34:32.60
And you're able to
connect with the people
00:34:32.63\00:34:34.84
and then you learn
new cultural terms.
00:34:34.87\00:34:36.64
You know, on a
Caucasian culture,
00:34:36.67\00:34:38.77
it's "Can you say amen?"
00:34:38.81\00:34:41.01
Sometimes I'd be in
African-American culture,
00:34:41.04\00:34:44.55
I learned new terms like
00:34:44.58\00:34:45.91
can I get a witness in the house
00:34:45.95\00:34:47.28
or things like that,
00:34:47.32\00:34:48.65
and you're able to
take on just, you know,
00:34:48.68\00:34:50.22
some of the nuances,
00:34:50.25\00:34:51.59
as long as you do
it in a genuine way.
00:34:51.62\00:34:52.95
Yes, yes. Pastor Mann?
00:34:52.99\00:34:54.86
And I think that that's the key,
00:34:54.89\00:34:57.33
being transparent, being genuine
00:34:57.36\00:35:01.06
But if you don't have
the ability to understand
00:35:01.10\00:35:07.04
what that culture is like,
you're going to be terrified.
00:35:07.07\00:35:10.87
I remember in school,
when I was at Union College,
00:35:10.91\00:35:15.11
I was a, it was my first
00:35:15.14\00:35:17.31
Sabbath pastoring
a church in a city
00:35:17.35\00:35:22.78
that only had
one African-American
00:35:22.82\00:35:25.39
in the whole city.
00:35:25.42\00:35:26.82
And that African-American
00:35:26.86\00:35:28.46
was not at that church that day.
00:35:28.49\00:35:30.49
So I preached and I preached,
00:35:30.53\00:35:33.93
you're just so bombastic
and everybody looked at me
00:35:33.96\00:35:38.43
and it was like, "Oh,"
00:35:38.47\00:35:40.10
and I was thinking "Man,
00:35:40.14\00:35:41.54
they must think that
I'm from Mars or something."
00:35:41.57\00:35:45.81
But when I came down
00:35:45.84\00:35:47.18
and I shook
their hand at the door,
00:35:47.21\00:35:50.05
they were so
appreciative of the message.
00:35:50.08\00:35:54.42
I wouldn't have known
from their facial expressions.
00:35:54.45\00:35:58.59
But we became great friends,
00:35:58.62\00:36:02.79
it was an awesome experience.
00:36:02.82\00:36:04.79
And so the thing is,
00:36:04.83\00:36:06.16
is that we have to
get to know each other.
00:36:06.19\00:36:08.80
So in preparing...
00:36:08.83\00:36:11.23
Just as David
said, "You prepare,
00:36:11.27\00:36:14.20
because God is preparing you."
00:36:14.24\00:36:15.97
He knows what's going
to be present on that day.
00:36:16.00\00:36:19.94
And so, you
just have to be ready
00:36:19.97\00:36:21.91
and prepared to do
00:36:21.94\00:36:23.61
whatever it is
that He wants you to do,
00:36:23.65\00:36:25.85
but getting to know the
people, I think that is key.
00:36:25.88\00:36:30.95
When you're going to speak
00:36:30.99\00:36:32.39
to someone of a
different culture,
00:36:32.42\00:36:34.29
don't just walk
into the culture,
00:36:34.32\00:36:36.22
because you can say
things that are offensive
00:36:36.26\00:36:38.53
and people say things
00:36:38.56\00:36:40.23
all the time that are offensive,
00:36:40.26\00:36:41.96
and they're like,
"Well, what did I say?"
00:36:42.00\00:36:45.13
You gotta
learn. Yes, absolutely.
00:36:45.17\00:36:47.57
What about you, Pastor Long?
00:36:47.60\00:36:49.34
Well, you know,
there's a cultural difference.
00:36:49.37\00:36:51.41
And when it comes to
the content of a message,
00:36:51.44\00:36:54.01
I think the content is the same.
00:36:54.04\00:36:56.01
And, in fact, that's the
beauty of the Adventist message.
00:36:56.04\00:36:58.51
We're all united by
the Three Angles' messages
00:36:58.55\00:37:00.68
and, you know,
there's a commonality in
00:37:00.72\00:37:02.52
what we're preaching, you know,
it's gonna be well received
00:37:02.55\00:37:05.52
but I always
appreciate preaching
00:37:05.55\00:37:07.59
in African-American churches,
00:37:07.62\00:37:09.42
there's more
enthusiasm, you know,
00:37:09.46\00:37:11.03
we'd like to hear
amen as preachers,
00:37:11.06\00:37:12.93
we don't hear that a
lot in the white churches.
00:37:12.96\00:37:16.26
So just getting that
response, a friend of mine said,
00:37:16.30\00:37:19.33
you know, "In the black churches
00:37:19.37\00:37:20.70
if you don't have a good sermon,
00:37:20.74\00:37:22.07
they'd help you make
one up along the way.
00:37:22.10\00:37:25.17
So, yes, I like
that responsiveness
00:37:25.21\00:37:27.81
and the excitement.
00:37:27.84\00:37:29.18
And the other
thing that has struck me
00:37:29.21\00:37:30.55
about the black
churches that I've gone
00:37:30.58\00:37:31.98
and preached that is just the,
00:37:32.01\00:37:33.72
the way that
pastors are really honored.
00:37:33.75\00:37:36.32
And I was presented with a gift,
00:37:36.35\00:37:38.39
and after the service,
00:37:38.42\00:37:40.39
you know, being at
the fellowship meal,
00:37:40.42\00:37:42.39
having a special
table there, and, you know,
00:37:42.42\00:37:44.56
it was just, I thought,
00:37:44.59\00:37:46.09
"Wow, they really
honored the leadership."
00:37:46.13\00:37:48.73
And I appreciated
that and learned from that.
00:37:48.76\00:37:51.50
Yes. Were you going to say?
00:37:51.53\00:37:53.70
No, I was just thinking,
00:37:53.74\00:37:55.07
I specifically
remember for me a memory,
00:37:55.10\00:37:56.81
I'm sure you remember this.
00:37:56.84\00:37:58.37
Bryan and I did
an evangelistically
00:37:58.41\00:37:59.91
together at his church,
00:37:59.94\00:38:01.38
and Joe was
involved in that too.
00:38:01.41\00:38:03.51
And he had titled it "The
Truth in Black and White."
00:38:03.55\00:38:08.98
So we did that together
00:38:09.02\00:38:10.35
and that's a memory
00:38:10.39\00:38:11.72
that I always have
from being in St. Louis.
00:38:11.75\00:38:14.32
You know, he
would always say that
00:38:14.36\00:38:16.29
he was ebony and I was ivory.
00:38:16.32\00:38:20.20
Yes, yes.
00:38:20.23\00:38:21.80
You did have St. Louis mission,
00:38:21.83\00:38:24.60
why don't you talk
about that a little bit?
00:38:24.63\00:38:26.60
You're talking
about the Lay Mission?
00:38:26.63\00:38:27.97
Yes, the Lay Mission.
00:38:28.00\00:38:29.34
Yeah, that was something
00:38:29.37\00:38:30.71
where we had put
together a group,
00:38:30.74\00:38:33.71
a Lay Mission committee
00:38:33.74\00:38:35.08
which was one or two laypeople
from each of the area churches.
00:38:35.11\00:38:39.35
And their job was to find
one or two mission projects
00:38:39.38\00:38:43.25
that all the
churches could get involved
00:38:43.28\00:38:45.65
in the city of St. Louis.
00:38:45.69\00:38:47.76
So that when that happened,
you would see African-American
00:38:47.79\00:38:51.06
Adventists,
Caucasian Adventists,
00:38:51.09\00:38:52.66
Korean, Hispanic,
00:38:52.69\00:38:54.20
European, all working together
00:38:54.23\00:38:56.67
in the streets of St. Louis
00:38:56.70\00:38:58.10
and whatever that
mission project was.
00:38:58.13\00:39:00.70
And that really helped
again to bring bonds together.
00:39:00.74\00:39:03.71
If we had time, we
could share with you
00:39:03.74\00:39:05.67
what some of those
mission projects were.
00:39:05.71\00:39:07.84
And I wish we had
all the pictures of them.
00:39:07.88\00:39:09.21
Yes.
00:39:09.24\00:39:10.58
Now we do have
some pictures though,
00:39:10.61\00:39:11.95
we still have some pictures
00:39:11.98\00:39:13.48
with Elder
Wilson, and to touch on...
00:39:13.52\00:39:16.99
What was going on
here? It looks like prayer.
00:39:17.02\00:39:20.62
That is the St.
Louis mission rally.
00:39:20.66\00:39:22.89
That was one of
our really big events
00:39:22.92\00:39:25.19
where one year we brought
all the churches together,
00:39:25.23\00:39:28.90
it's like 15 or 16, churches
in the metropolitan area,
00:39:28.93\00:39:32.13
and we actually had to rent
00:39:32.17\00:39:33.60
a large nondenominational church
00:39:33.64\00:39:35.44
to fit everyone.
00:39:35.47\00:39:36.81
And so everyone came together
00:39:36.84\00:39:38.77
for Friday night
and Sabbath worship.
00:39:38.81\00:39:41.38
And that picture was a picture
of all of us pastors, you know,
00:39:41.41\00:39:45.11
up on the stage
also having a moment
00:39:45.15\00:39:47.02
of prayer together
during that service.
00:39:47.05\00:39:49.58
Just casting the vision
00:39:49.62\00:39:51.35
to all the churches of St. Louis
00:39:51.39\00:39:53.25
of how we're
collaborating together,
00:39:53.29\00:39:55.09
we're reaching
the city together.
00:39:55.12\00:39:56.46
Yes.
00:39:56.49\00:39:57.83
What are some of the challenges
00:39:57.86\00:39:59.19
that you guys have faced
in taking on this initiative?
00:39:59.23\00:40:04.27
Well, I think the challenge is
just because it's already been,
00:40:04.30\00:40:06.94
you know, commented on that,
pastors are busy, you know,
00:40:06.97\00:40:10.54
we have a lot going on
just with our local church,
00:40:10.57\00:40:12.87
and then conference programs
00:40:12.91\00:40:14.38
that we're trying to engage
00:40:14.41\00:40:15.74
in with whatever
conference we're part of.
00:40:15.78\00:40:17.95
So just finding the time
00:40:17.98\00:40:19.31
to do this type of
thing can be a challenge.
00:40:19.35\00:40:23.05
But I think also that
we need to realize that
00:40:23.08\00:40:26.09
even if we can't be
together physically,
00:40:26.12\00:40:29.09
because of time
constraints or whatever,
00:40:29.12\00:40:32.09
we really need to develop
more of a concept I guess,
00:40:32.13\00:40:35.16
that we are all one church.
00:40:35.20\00:40:37.50
And even if I can't be at
Bryan's evangelistic meetings,
00:40:37.53\00:40:41.10
those need to be my
evangelistic meetings,
00:40:41.14\00:40:43.20
our evangelistic meetings,
00:40:43.24\00:40:44.57
and we need to
have a real burden
00:40:44.61\00:40:47.48
that they'd be successful,
you know, to pray for them,
00:40:47.51\00:40:49.94
to be interested in
the outcome, rather than
00:40:49.98\00:40:51.95
"Oh, yeah, they're
doing that over there
00:40:51.98\00:40:53.45
and we're doing this over here."
00:40:53.48\00:40:55.15
And, you know, we
don't really all the time
00:40:55.18\00:40:57.35
have our mutual success in mind,
00:40:57.39\00:40:59.82
and I think
that needs to change,
00:40:59.85\00:41:01.19
and I hope that will change.
00:41:01.22\00:41:02.56
And so we can start to see,
00:41:02.59\00:41:03.93
"That's our church
over there doing that.
00:41:03.96\00:41:05.59
Those are our
brothers doing that."
00:41:05.63\00:41:07.60
And we're going to
rise and fall together.
00:41:07.63\00:41:10.27
So let's pray for each other,
00:41:10.30\00:41:11.90
let's be more
concerned about the outcome
00:41:11.93\00:41:14.34
of what each of us are doing,
00:41:14.37\00:41:16.00
and share in the
successes and celebrate those.
00:41:16.04\00:41:18.71
And we don't look at
each other as competition,
00:41:18.74\00:41:20.98
churches being against churches,
00:41:21.01\00:41:22.34
at least not in St. Louis area.
00:41:22.38\00:41:23.71
Yes.
00:41:23.75\00:41:25.08
I think another
one of the challenges
00:41:25.11\00:41:26.61
as Elder Weekes has
spoken about is the fact
00:41:26.65\00:41:31.95
that Adventist ministers
move from time to time,
00:41:31.99\00:41:35.09
and so if you don't
have a strong lay component,
00:41:35.12\00:41:40.56
then that's going to...
00:41:40.60\00:41:42.56
You have times
00:41:42.60\00:41:43.93
where it may
almost seem to die out.
00:41:43.97\00:41:48.54
But the AMPS, the reason that
00:41:48.57\00:41:52.44
we called it AMPS
was because of the power,
00:41:52.47\00:41:56.04
AMPS has to do with electricity,
00:41:56.08\00:41:58.08
it has to do with power.
00:41:58.11\00:41:59.81
And that's what we're
bringing to St. Louis.
00:41:59.85\00:42:01.92
It was the power of the gospel,
00:42:01.95\00:42:04.62
and the power of
all of these churches
00:42:04.65\00:42:07.19
coming together
doing what we can,
00:42:07.22\00:42:09.02
no one can do by themselves,
00:42:09.06\00:42:11.39
no one church can do that.
00:42:11.43\00:42:13.23
And so coming together
00:42:13.26\00:42:15.16
we have the ability
to harness the power of
00:42:15.20\00:42:18.13
all of the community
for particular projects
00:42:18.17\00:42:22.07
and then also to
learn from each other.
00:42:22.10\00:42:25.61
But I would like for
Elder Weekes to speak to this
00:42:25.64\00:42:29.11
because that
challenge he has taken
00:42:29.14\00:42:31.51
on now being the current chair
00:42:31.55\00:42:34.35
of AMPS as a layperson.
00:42:34.38\00:42:38.32
So we have not
only the challenge
00:42:38.35\00:42:40.02
of including more
and more laypeople,
00:42:40.06\00:42:45.06
which is
difficult in and of itself,
00:42:45.09\00:42:46.90
because you talk
about pastors being busy.
00:42:46.93\00:42:48.80
You have
laypeople living their lives
00:42:48.83\00:42:50.40
and asking them
to tap into something
00:42:50.43\00:42:54.34
and add to their
schedule, so to speak.
00:42:54.37\00:42:57.81
There is another challenge
00:42:57.84\00:42:59.17
I want to talk
about and that is,
00:42:59.21\00:43:01.64
you know, you have
the larger churches
00:43:01.68\00:43:03.51
in Central St. Louis,
00:43:03.55\00:43:05.81
but then you have other churches
00:43:05.85\00:43:07.52
that are kind of
geographically on the periphery.
00:43:07.55\00:43:11.19
And these people
want to participate.
00:43:11.22\00:43:13.46
And you want to include them,
include them in a real way,
00:43:13.49\00:43:17.06
not just having them come
in and visit the big church,
00:43:17.09\00:43:20.30
but sometimes taking
some programs out to them.
00:43:20.33\00:43:23.47
So that they could
truly feel included.
00:43:23.50\00:43:26.33
And so we we're
trying to do that.
00:43:26.37\00:43:29.74
As many times we are
limited on facilities
00:43:29.77\00:43:31.71
and that sort of thing,
00:43:31.74\00:43:33.07
but you really want to make sure
00:43:33.11\00:43:34.44
that they're included.
00:43:34.48\00:43:35.81
Another thing that
we had at the beginning
00:43:35.84\00:43:37.61
and you did allude to it,
00:43:37.65\00:43:39.78
and that is that
you had the Koreans,
00:43:39.81\00:43:42.25
and Spanish, and
what have you, and so on.
00:43:42.28\00:43:45.62
And so the challenges that
00:43:45.65\00:43:47.56
each unit has within itself
00:43:47.59\00:43:50.33
and coming
together in the larger unit.
00:43:50.36\00:43:54.00
Our Korean unit has dropped off
00:43:54.03\00:43:57.17
because a pastor moved on
00:43:57.20\00:43:59.00
and they don't
have a replacement,
00:43:59.03\00:44:00.37
so examples, things like that.
00:44:00.40\00:44:01.97
Got you. Another thing...
00:44:02.00\00:44:03.57
I'm sorry, Bryan. Go ahead.
00:44:03.61\00:44:05.91
You know, we can
become project oriented.
00:44:05.94\00:44:08.41
And that can
happen in the church,
00:44:08.44\00:44:09.84
we got our programs going on,
00:44:09.88\00:44:11.21
and we get so consumed
with putting the programs on
00:44:11.25\00:44:13.72
and all of that entails
that we don't leave room
00:44:13.75\00:44:17.59
for the fellowship
00:44:17.62\00:44:18.99
and the relationship building
among the members themselves.
00:44:19.02\00:44:22.72
And that can happen too,
00:44:22.76\00:44:24.39
if anybody wants to start
an organization like this,
00:44:24.43\00:44:27.36
it can tend to
sometimes become program based.
00:44:27.40\00:44:29.56
We had a lot of
programs going on
00:44:29.60\00:44:30.93
and took time in preparation.
00:44:30.97\00:44:32.77
So I think it's
important to keep in mind
00:44:32.80\00:44:34.54
that while the
programs are great,
00:44:34.57\00:44:37.44
it's the bonding,
it's the fellowship,
00:44:37.47\00:44:39.34
it's getting to know each other,
00:44:39.37\00:44:40.88
listening to each other,
00:44:40.91\00:44:42.41
appreciating our
differences, where we come from,
00:44:42.44\00:44:45.65
that, if we can accomplish that,
00:44:45.68\00:44:47.52
that is going to be I
think, in the eyes of heaven,
00:44:47.55\00:44:50.65
just as important
as whatever programs
00:44:50.69\00:44:52.45
we happen to do.
00:44:52.49\00:44:53.82
But strangely enough, you know,
00:44:53.86\00:44:55.26
we're dealing with human beings
and we build an expectancy,
00:44:55.29\00:44:59.96
a level of
expectancy in people's minds
00:45:00.00\00:45:02.53
when we have these programs.
00:45:02.56\00:45:03.90
So these are
platforms to come together.
00:45:03.93\00:45:08.67
And if you take
away the platforms
00:45:08.70\00:45:10.21
and they get disappointed.
00:45:10.24\00:45:11.57
If you disappoint people,
then you lower the energy
00:45:11.61\00:45:14.61
expectation as you go forward.
00:45:14.64\00:45:16.64
So there is the challenge
of keeping the expectancy
00:45:16.68\00:45:21.68
going as you
build new relationships.
00:45:21.72\00:45:25.29
It's sort of like repairing
00:45:25.32\00:45:28.19
and modifying a car
while you're in the race.
00:45:28.22\00:45:33.23
When you look at AMPS,
00:45:33.26\00:45:35.76
and we go from church to church,
00:45:35.80\00:45:38.60
visit the different churches
00:45:38.63\00:45:41.30
and we talk about oneness,
00:45:41.34\00:45:44.71
being one church.
00:45:44.74\00:45:46.54
Now if you're husband and wife,
00:45:46.57\00:45:48.84
and husband and
wife are together and,
00:45:48.88\00:45:51.85
but my wife dresses poorly,
00:45:51.88\00:45:54.18
and I dress
very nice and neatly,
00:45:54.22\00:45:57.19
and up-to-date, but my wife,
00:45:57.22\00:46:01.82
and people are,
"Aren't you all married?"
00:46:01.86\00:46:03.22
"Yeah."
00:46:03.26\00:46:04.59
But when we go
to other churches,
00:46:04.63\00:46:08.83
we need to understand
that there are some things
00:46:08.86\00:46:12.50
that other
denominations are doing.
00:46:12.53\00:46:15.10
When they build a church,
00:46:15.14\00:46:17.67
everybody comes together
and they build that church.
00:46:17.71\00:46:20.28
And so this church is just
00:46:20.31\00:46:23.35
like the church down the street,
00:46:23.38\00:46:26.01
it may not be cookie cutter,
00:46:26.05\00:46:28.88
but at the same time,
00:46:28.92\00:46:30.25
it is still a
real nice facility.
00:46:30.29\00:46:33.02
And so when we, when we go
00:46:33.05\00:46:34.89
from one church
in the inner city
00:46:34.92\00:46:37.86
into one that's maybe
in a more affluent area,
00:46:37.89\00:46:43.53
if we're one church,
00:46:43.57\00:46:45.53
then all of these
churches need to say,
00:46:45.57\00:46:47.67
"Hey, this is my church too."
00:46:47.70\00:46:50.77
And I don't like the way
that this looks right here.
00:46:50.81\00:46:54.24
We can do better.
00:46:54.28\00:46:56.14
As unified, we can come together
00:46:56.18\00:46:59.98
and we can make this
00:47:00.02\00:47:02.05
one church so that
00:47:02.08\00:47:03.65
everyone knows that
00:47:03.69\00:47:05.02
we are putting effort
00:47:05.05\00:47:07.06
and putting our resources
00:47:07.09\00:47:10.33
so that we can
build up this one church
00:47:10.36\00:47:13.40
because your church
represents my church.
00:47:13.43\00:47:16.26
And if my church looks one way,
00:47:16.30\00:47:18.83
then your church should
be representative as well.
00:47:18.87\00:47:22.47
And that's when the
individual churches,
00:47:22.50\00:47:25.17
they begin to say,
00:47:25.21\00:47:27.01
"Hey, it's not just
about coming together,
00:47:27.04\00:47:29.74
but it's about making
each situation the best
00:47:29.78\00:47:33.31
so that we can win
souls into God's kingdom."
00:47:33.35\00:47:36.12
Amen. I like that.
00:47:36.15\00:47:37.99
Now, if there's other cities
00:47:38.02\00:47:40.16
that want to get
involved with AMPS,
00:47:40.19\00:47:42.59
how can they do that?
00:47:42.62\00:47:45.13
There's a few
steps they can take,
00:47:45.16\00:47:47.40
you know, right now it starts
by someone who has a vision,
00:47:47.43\00:47:50.53
you know, whether it's a
pastor or a layperson, saying,
00:47:50.57\00:47:53.27
"I would love to see
this happen in my conference
00:47:53.30\00:47:56.47
or in my metropolitan city."
00:47:56.50\00:47:57.91
And so, it simply starts by
talking to the other pastors
00:47:57.94\00:48:01.38
or leaders of
churches and saying,
00:48:01.41\00:48:04.15
"Could we start coming together
00:48:04.18\00:48:05.81
and begin meeting
together on a monthly basis
00:48:05.85\00:48:08.12
and let it go from there,"
00:48:08.15\00:48:09.65
but somebody's got
to be willing to...
00:48:09.68\00:48:11.75
And the kind of the
phrase I use is "Cross the line"
00:48:11.79\00:48:14.92
and that we use that term
many times in a negative way,
00:48:14.96\00:48:17.63
I'm using it in a positive way,
00:48:17.66\00:48:19.59
cross the line and
start visiting a church
00:48:19.63\00:48:21.40
of another conference,
or another ethnicity,
00:48:21.43\00:48:23.70
or the pastors, and
talk about coming together
00:48:23.73\00:48:27.24
and someone has got to
start just by doing that
00:48:27.27\00:48:31.34
and being the
leader, it can happen.
00:48:31.37\00:48:32.94
Yeah, so just bridge the divide.
00:48:32.97\00:48:34.71
And through technology...
00:48:34.74\00:48:36.68
If there's a group of
people, or maybe just one person
00:48:36.71\00:48:40.95
who wants to start
that in a particular city,
00:48:40.98\00:48:43.59
they can bring the
pastors and the lay members
00:48:43.62\00:48:47.29
of AMPS together
from St. Louis area,
00:48:47.32\00:48:50.09
you know, we're in
all different places now,
00:48:50.13\00:48:52.73
but we can have
a Zoom conference
00:48:52.76\00:48:54.83
or something of that
00:48:54.86\00:48:56.53
sort to help get
them established,
00:48:56.56\00:49:00.34
and answer any questions,
00:49:00.37\00:49:01.94
and give them some guidance
on how they can proceed.
00:49:01.97\00:49:05.21
Nice.
00:49:05.24\00:49:06.57
I think once we've
had this experience of,
00:49:06.61\00:49:08.81
you know, racially integrated
00:49:08.84\00:49:10.85
and collaborative effort
together, it's kind of...
00:49:10.88\00:49:13.78
It's in you then, and, you know,
00:49:13.82\00:49:15.18
that's one of the nice things
00:49:15.22\00:49:16.55
when we do move
to different places,
00:49:16.58\00:49:18.05
which many of us have,
00:49:18.09\00:49:20.02
we're in
different locations now.
00:49:20.06\00:49:21.39
But you kind of
carry that with you.
00:49:21.42\00:49:23.19
And I know, you know,
00:49:23.22\00:49:24.56
it's mentioned what
happened in Kansas City,
00:49:24.59\00:49:26.70
since Bryan and Joe were there,
00:49:26.73\00:49:29.06
and we saw the same
thing happening in Indiana,
00:49:29.10\00:49:31.23
when we had the GC session,
00:49:31.27\00:49:32.97
you know, and
looking forward to that.
00:49:33.00\00:49:35.10
And we saw the
regional conference,
00:49:35.14\00:49:36.91
Lake Region,
00:49:36.94\00:49:38.27
and the Indiana
Conference come together.
00:49:38.31\00:49:40.08
Joint meetings,
planning, you know,
00:49:40.11\00:49:42.51
aware of what each other
is doing as this big event
00:49:42.54\00:49:45.91
is coming up, praying together,
00:49:45.95\00:49:48.48
and just, you
know, working together.
00:49:48.52\00:49:50.52
So that's the beauty of it
00:49:50.55\00:49:52.22
and I'm so thankful that
00:49:52.25\00:49:53.59
it started in St.
Louis, I think St. Louis
00:49:53.62\00:49:56.32
is pointed to as a
real model to follow.
00:49:56.36\00:50:00.90
And those of us that
have come out of that
00:50:00.93\00:50:02.73
are carrying that
with us wherever we go.
00:50:02.76\00:50:04.40
Yeah.
00:50:04.43\00:50:05.77
I was blown away by
the concept of all of this.
00:50:05.80\00:50:08.20
I mean, when I heard
about it, I was just like,
00:50:08.24\00:50:11.11
"Man, this is what
we need to be doing.
00:50:11.14\00:50:13.74
This is excellent."
00:50:13.78\00:50:15.28
You know, and every so often
00:50:15.31\00:50:17.11
something
happens on the national
00:50:17.15\00:50:19.18
or world scene that
causes us to look at unity
00:50:19.21\00:50:23.55
and how we can come together
and how we can work together.
00:50:23.59\00:50:27.36
Instead of reacting,
00:50:27.39\00:50:29.72
we need to be proactive,
00:50:29.76\00:50:31.39
we need to develop
the relationships now
00:50:31.43\00:50:34.80
so that we will have foundation
00:50:34.83\00:50:36.77
to say that
we've been doing this,
00:50:36.80\00:50:38.87
we've been working together
00:50:38.90\00:50:40.80
and move the
people of God in the path
00:50:40.84\00:50:44.87
that God would have us to go.
00:50:44.91\00:50:46.24
Amen.
00:50:46.27\00:50:47.61
The big reason to get started
in the first place is that
00:50:47.64\00:50:49.84
this is
something that God wants.
00:50:49.88\00:50:52.48
If it's not
something that God wants,
00:50:52.51\00:50:53.98
then there's no
point in talking about it.
00:50:54.02\00:50:57.22
If it's something He
wants, we take the first step,
00:50:57.25\00:50:59.15
He will bless, He would
take us to the next step.
00:50:59.19\00:51:02.56
Not asking us to go
to a full blown marriage,
00:51:02.59\00:51:05.03
let's start
dating a little here.
00:51:05.06\00:51:07.06
I like that.
00:51:07.10\00:51:08.43
And this actually
could be salvation.
00:51:08.46\00:51:10.63
Yes. Amen.
00:51:10.67\00:51:12.00
Because if I have
issues with individuals
00:51:12.03\00:51:15.67
just because of
the color of their skin
00:51:15.70\00:51:18.77
or background or whatever it is,
00:51:18.81\00:51:22.94
that could keep
me from the kingdom.
00:51:22.98\00:51:25.55
And so we need to
work these things out,
00:51:25.58\00:51:27.95
we need to really take a
look at ourselves in the mirror,
00:51:27.98\00:51:31.89
and understand if
we truly love everybody
00:51:31.92\00:51:35.16
that Jesus loves.
00:51:35.19\00:51:36.52
Amen. Amen.
00:51:36.56\00:51:37.89
Absolutely, and I love
that you brought that out
00:51:37.93\00:51:40.60
because it could
keep us out of heaven.
00:51:40.63\00:51:43.97
We're gonna go
to the address role
00:51:44.00\00:51:46.17
because I want people to know
how to get in touch with you,
00:51:46.20\00:51:48.60
and a short news break
and we'll be right back.
00:51:48.64\00:51:52.64
For more information
about Adventist Ministers
00:51:52.67\00:51:55.28
and Pastors of St.
Louis, go to their website
00:51:55.31\00:51:58.05
at AdventistSaintLouis.com.
00:51:58.08\00:52:00.92
That's AdventistSaintLouis.com.
00:52:00.95\00:52:04.15
You may also call
them at 402-206-7543.
00:52:04.19\00:52:10.43
Write to them at number 2
00:52:10.46\00:52:11.93
Parkrose Ct,
Ballwin, Missouri 63011
00:52:11.96\00:52:16.87
or email them at
AdventistSaintLouis7@gmail.com
00:52:16.90\00:52:22.00
That's
AdventistSaintLouis7@gmail.com
00:52:22.04\00:52:27.38
And again, the website
is AdventistSaintLouis.com.
00:52:27.41\00:52:31.05