Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY200027A
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00:01 As you're well aware,
00:02 we're living in unprecedented times. 00:05 Join us now for today's special program. 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Mending broken people 00:23 I want to spend my life 00:29 Removing pain 00:34 Lord, let my words 00:39 Heal a heart that hurts 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:50 Mending broken people 00:55 I want to spend my life 01:00 Mending broken people. 01:14 Hello and welcome 01:16 to another edition of 3ABN Today. 01:19 We are so excited that you are joining us. 01:21 We have a powerful, powerful hour 01:23 in which we're going to open the Word of God 01:25 and we're gonna dive deep into a Bible topic 01:28 that little misconstrued in some people's minds 01:31 but we're gonna set the record clear today. 01:34 Again, we thank you for your love, 01:35 your prayers and support, 01:37 the time that you spend of your day 01:38 to take time to watch these programs 01:39 and to support 01:41 this incredible ministry of 3ABN 01:42 because it is our mission 01:44 to take the Gospel to the world 01:45 and undiluted three angels' messages, 01:48 and we praise the Lord for that. 01:50 Before we go any further though, 01:52 before we dive deep into our topic, 01:53 I want to... 01:54 I want to introduce this powerful panel. 01:57 I've got a couple of gentlemen here 01:59 that are gonna join me Brother John Lomacang, 02:02 Pastor John Lomacang, my pastor. 02:04 It's a blessing to have you, brother, with us today. 02:06 Good to be here. I'm excited about the topic. 02:08 I'm fired up. 02:09 Amen. Fired... 02:10 There's a reason why he said he's fired up. 02:12 We're gonna introduce that in just a moment. 02:14 And, of course, Pastor Kenny Shelton, 02:16 it's always a blessing to have you, brother. 02:17 It's always good to be here. 02:19 And it is a hot topic. 02:20 It is. 02:21 Well, he's fired up. 02:23 It's a hot topic. 02:24 If you haven't figured out by now, 02:26 we are talking about hellfire. 02:28 In fact, the official title of this study today 02:31 is Hellfire Extinguishing the Myths. 02:35 That's right, and we have a couple of firemen right here. 02:39 And we're gonna have probably a very heated discussion 02:42 on this topic today 02:43 because it is a very relevant topic 02:45 for our time. 02:46 If you are a Christian 02:48 and you know what the Bible teaches 02:49 on this topic, 02:50 then you know that regardless of what you believe, 02:52 you know that the Bible speaks about hellfire 02:54 and the destruction of the wicked. 02:56 And so we're gonna do a study on this today 02:58 to see what the Bible teaches about hellfire, 03:01 and then toward the closing moments 03:03 of our study this evening, 03:05 we're going to address some of the myths 03:07 and we're gonna... 03:08 we're gonna set the record straight, aren't we, brothers? 03:09 Yeah. That's right. 03:11 We're gonna let the Bible speak for itself 03:13 and allow the Word of God to tell us 03:15 how to believe and what we should believe 03:17 on this important subject of hellfire. 03:18 So before we go any further, Brother Kenny Shelton, 03:21 I'm gonna kick it to you. 03:22 If you would open us in a Word of Prayer 03:23 that'd be a blessing. 03:25 Absolutely. Let's pray, shall we? 03:26 Loving Father in heaven, truly is a privilege 03:28 that we can gather together to study Your word, 03:30 what a blessing, what a privilege it is 03:32 but we realize we cannot do anything 03:34 without the power of Thy Holy Spirit. 03:36 We ask You to come into our each of our hearts, 03:38 each of our lives, 03:39 illuminate these beautiful truths, 03:41 that we may be able to share them with others. 03:42 Thank You, Lord, 03:44 for what You're going to do today. 03:45 Clearness of mind, clearness of heart 03:47 as we stand before Thee 03:49 may now we ask that the word would be anointed 03:50 in a very special way. 03:52 In Jesus' name, amen. 03:54 Amen. Praise the Lord. 03:55 I assume gentlemen, 03:57 you have your fire suits ready and on 03:58 and ready to go as we dive into this topic Hellfire, 04:02 and we're gonna Extinguish the Myths. 04:05 I want to start by bringing up 04:08 a little bit of a quote from an interview 04:11 that was given 04:12 toward the beginning of this year. 04:13 So this is referenced 04:15 actually from back in January of 2020. 04:17 And this quote that I'm about to read 04:18 comes from an interview 04:20 of someone who was interviewing Aaron Rodgers. 04:24 And you may not know who Aaron Rodgers is, 04:25 but he is currently the quarterback 04:27 for the Green Bay Packers. 04:28 And this caught my attention 04:30 as we were preparing for this topic. 04:32 I thought that it really helped... 04:33 it's gonna help us set the tone really nicely. 04:35 And notice what he says, 04:37 in the midst of this particular interview, 04:38 Aaron Rodgers was being asked about his Christian experience, 04:41 being raised as a Christian. 04:42 And, of course, now today, unfortunately, 04:44 he is no longer a Christian, he does not believe in God. 04:47 In fact, to quote him, he says that it's... 04:49 that he can't really resonate with Christianity anymore. 04:53 And one of the reasons why, 04:54 well, this is what he says in the interview, and I quote, 04:57 he says, "I don't know how you can believe in a God 05:01 who wants to condemn 05:03 most of the planet to a fiery hell." 05:06 Rogers continued, 05:07 "What type of loving, sensitive, omnipresent, 05:11 omnipotent being 05:12 wants to condemn his beautiful creation 05:15 to a fiery hell at the end of all of this?" 05:18 Wow! 05:19 And unfortunately, you know, 05:21 there are so many people in the world today 05:23 that have that same thought, Brother Kenny. 05:25 Absolutely. 05:26 Pastor, you probably ran into many people 05:28 who you've witness to over the years, 05:30 who simply struggle with their belief in God. 05:32 And even if they believe in a God, 05:34 you'll hear people say, 05:35 you know, "Even if I did believe a God, 05:36 why would I want to serve a God who finds pleasure," 05:41 okay, I'm gonna use that word 05:42 because we're gonna bring up a text a little bit 05:43 that's gonna completely dismantle this 05:46 but "who finds pleasure 05:47 in seeing people roast and toast 05:49 in a fiery hell for all eternity?" 05:52 just to put it very plainly. 05:53 And so we're gonna get into this. 05:55 I wanna start by asking first 05:57 before we get into all of the logistics, 05:59 what is the purpose of hellfire? 06:01 We know that hellfire is a real thing. 06:04 It is a real event that will take place 06:08 but what is the purpose of hellfire? 06:10 Why does God need to kindle the fires of hell? 06:15 Let's go to Matthew 25:41. 06:17 Okay. 06:18 Matthew 25:41 is a good place to start. 06:20 I'm glad you began with that question 06:21 because a lot of people wonder, 06:23 "Man, what is the purpose of hell?" 06:26 This passage answers two questions 06:28 and I want to just... 06:29 I've seen this passage in a beautiful way. 06:32 Matthew 25:41. 06:36 And it says, 06:38 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 06:44 'Depart from me, 06:46 you who are cursed into the everlasting fire 06:50 prepared for the devil and his angels.'" 06:53 Okay. 06:55 So hell is prepared for the devil and his angels. 06:59 Yes. A number of things happen. 07:02 A number of passages or a number of points 07:06 are brought out in this passage. 07:07 Right. Absolutely. 07:08 That we'll answer in just a moment. 07:10 So I'm gonna let that word, that phrase, everlasting fire, 07:12 hang out there a little bit. 07:13 Right, right. 07:14 So people might get a clear understanding. 07:17 Bottom line is, hell is not prepared 07:18 for those who the Lord loves. 07:20 Right. Right. 07:21 It's not prepared for those who he created. 07:23 It's not prepared for the children of God. 07:24 Yes. 07:25 It was just for the devil and his angels. 07:27 That's right. That's a beautiful point. 07:29 So hell was never intended to be for people. 07:31 No. 07:33 It was never intended to destroy his creation. 07:35 But unfortunately, Brother Kenny... 07:37 Mm-hmm. You know, that is the reality. 07:39 You wanna chime in on it? It is. 07:40 Well, you know, the reality of it, 07:41 this subject, if misunderstood, 07:44 has caused more people to turn off from God. 07:46 Right. 07:47 To leave, they say at the church to leave Christ 07:49 because they don't have 07:51 a proper understanding of the word. 07:52 And because... 07:53 there's a lot in print, and as you brought out, 07:57 the quarterback here making his statement 07:58 I looked up something I thought very interesting, 08:00 I just love to share, take couple of minutes, 08:01 but just share that with you 08:03 because these things are out there. 08:04 Oh, yeah. 08:06 And because they're out there, 08:07 people are reading them and they believe them 08:09 because they don't know what the Bible is, 08:11 you know, that what man's written down, 08:12 that's what they believe rather than the Bible. 08:14 Absolutely. 08:15 And this is a description of a bed of fire. 08:17 Now this may not be 08:19 for the young people's ears and eyes. 08:21 So mom and dad need to pay attention, 08:23 you know, if you don't want to hear that, 08:24 but we need to hear it because this stuff's out there. 08:27 That's why I think that we're doing this program, 08:29 because it's essential that we understand 08:31 because God's character is being challenged. 08:32 Absolutely. Amen. 08:34 So I know we'll talk more about that. 08:35 This actually comes from "Tracks of Spiritual Reading" 08:38 by Jay Furness. 08:40 It's a Catholic publishing house, 08:42 1882. 08:44 Okay. Notice what it says. 08:46 Excuse me, page 15. 08:48 "A centralized..." 08:49 so he gives a description here 08:50 trying to scare people into the church, I assume. 08:52 Hmm. 08:54 "A centralized chain down 08:55 on a bed of red-hot blazing fire. 08:58 When a man sick of fever is lying on even a soft bed, 09:02 it's pleasant sometimes to turn around. 09:05 If the sick man lies on the same side 09:07 for a long time the skin comes off. 09:11 The flesh gets raw. 09:14 How will it be when the..." 09:15 notice this, "the body has been laying 09:17 on the same side on the scorching, 09:20 broiling fire 09:21 for hundreds of millions of years?" 09:23 Wow. 09:25 "Now, look at that body lying on the bed of fire. 09:29 All the body is salted with fire. 09:32 The fire burns through every bone 09:34 and every muscle. 09:36 Every nerve is trembling 09:38 and quivering with all the sharp fire. 09:42 The fine," notice this, 09:43 "the fire rages inside the skull. 09:46 It shoots out through the eyes, 09:48 it drops out through the ears. 09:51 It roars in the throat. 09:53 So will mortal sinner be punished." 09:57 And this thought here, this to me brings again, 10:00 I know that's kind of gross if you think about it, 10:02 but this was published not just for adults, 10:04 this was published for the young people. 10:06 Mm-hmm. Wow. 10:07 This comes from the editor's notes. 10:09 Notice this, on this and the other publication 10:11 on this subject, it says, 10:13 by William Meagher, he was the vicar general. 10:16 So we have an idea where it comes from, 10:17 right from Dublin, 10:19 12/14/1855, considering just what I read, 10:22 if you will notice, he says this, 10:24 "I have carefully read 10:26 over the little volume for children, 10:28 and have found nothing whatsoever in it contrary 10:31 to the doctrine of the holy faith. 10:34 But on the contrary, a great deal, 10:37 to charm and to instruct, to edify our youthful classes, 10:42 for whose benefit it has been written. 10:47 That's just, I mean, to me, that's heavy duty, 10:49 for the benefit. 10:50 Absolutely, and it's statements like that, 10:55 that sometimes where Christians, I think, 10:56 do more harm to the character of God 10:58 and to the Gospel message... 10:59 Sure. That's right. 11:01 Than anyone. There you go. 11:02 You know, when you were reading that 11:03 another thing came to my mind. 11:05 I was thinking of a particular message 11:06 delivered by the famous Congregationalist Anthony, 11:08 excuse me, I almost said Anthony Hopkins, 11:10 not Anthony Hopkins, Samuel Hopkins. 11:12 This comes from around the end of the 18th century. 11:15 Notice what he said mid sermon. 11:17 He was preaching a sermon on this, 11:18 and I heard these type of sermons 11:19 growing up all the time, 11:21 just what you had mentioned. 11:22 Yeah, wow. 11:23 And this is what he said 11:25 mid sermon in reference to hellfire 11:26 and how we the saint should relate to it 11:28 and how God relates to this "hellfire" message. 11:31 He said, in his sermon, he said, 11:32 "The smoke of their torment shall ascend up forever 11:34 in the sight of the blessed before their eyes, 11:38 this display of divine character and glory 11:41 will be in favor of the redeemed 11:43 and most entertaining." 11:45 Oh, my. 11:46 And he goes on to say, 11:48 "And the highest pleasure to those who love God," 11:50 did you catch that? 11:52 The highest pleasure to those who love God 11:53 and we wonder why so many people 11:55 are turned off by Christianity 11:56 by some of the things that we teach and say, 11:58 and, in fact, he goes on to say, 12:00 "Should the eternal torment and the fires be extinguished? 12:03 It would be in a great measure," put... 12:06 "it would be in great measure, 12:07 put an end to the happiness and glory 12:11 of the blessing." 12:12 Hmm. 12:13 And these are some of the thoughts and ideas 12:15 that people have about hellfire. 12:16 And, gentlemen, I can tell you 12:17 being on the road out there for the many years 12:19 preaching and teaching the gospel 12:21 doing evangelistic series, 12:23 it's amazing to me 12:24 that when you go to teach the truth about hellfire... 12:26 That's right. 12:27 How many people get upset for the fact 12:29 that you're taking away their health, 12:31 their belief of hellfire 12:33 that it goes on forever and ever, 12:34 and that, you know, wicked people are burning 12:36 for ceaseless ages. 12:37 But, Pastor, you may have something 12:39 that you wanna add to this 12:40 but I want to eventually open up the question 12:41 which is, are there people burning in hell today? 12:45 Well, we'll answer the question with a no 12:46 and then we'll show you a scripture. 12:48 Sure. Simply in Matthew Chapter 13. 12:50 Let's go to Matthew Chapter 13. Okay. 12:53 You know, those pictures that you drew 12:54 and I'm familiar 12:55 with the minister of the gospel of the Free Thought in America, 12:59 it was a minister known by Robert Ingersoll. 13:02 He's about talked 13:04 about how his son became an atheist. 13:06 He didn't like God, 13:07 didn't want to have anything to do with God, 13:09 because of his father's description of hell. 13:12 And what you talked about and what you pointed out, 13:14 there was a time that people believed that, 13:16 in order for people to be saved, 13:18 we've got to scare them into the kingdom. 13:21 But that's contrary to the character of God, 13:25 contrary to God's character. 13:26 We'll look at Matthew Chapter 13. 13:29 And in this parable of the weed and the tares, 13:33 the tares are explained in verse 39, 40. 13:37 I'll just go ahead and bring this out. 13:39 "The enemy who sowed them..." 13:40 talking about the tares, 13:42 "is the devil. 13:43 The harvest is the end of the age 13:46 or the end of the world. 13:48 And the reapers are the angels." 13:50 Verse 40, 13:51 "Therefore, as the tares are gathered 13:54 and burned in the fire, 13:56 so it will be at the end of this age 13:59 or at the end of the world. 14:00 That's right. 14:01 So no one is in hell burning now, 14:03 like no one is in heaven. 14:04 Not too long ago we did a topic on death 14:07 and what the Bible says about death. 14:09 No one, there's a day coming 14:10 when the judgment of one fate or the other 14:14 as John 5:28, 29 brings out. 14:16 Let's look at that real quickly. 14:17 John 5:28, 29. That's a good scripture. 14:20 Because it shows the chronology of this. 14:25 The fire that Matthew just talked about 14:27 will be at the end of the world. 14:29 Right. 14:30 Do you have that... 14:31 John 5:28, 29, the Bible says, and this is Jesus speaking, 14:35 "Do not marvel at this for the hour is coming, 14:38 in which all who are in the graves 14:40 will hear his voice and come forth, 14:43 those who have done good to the resurrection of life, 14:46 and those who have done evil 14:47 to the resurrection of condemnation." 14:49 That's right. 14:50 So you have two resurrections, 14:52 the resurrection of life 14:53 and the resurrection of condemnation. 14:55 The resurrection of condemnation, 14:57 is that judgment, 14:58 is that judgment of the fires of hell. 15:01 And that's not happening now. 15:03 That's gonna happen at the end of the world. 15:05 Okay. 15:06 We're gonna talk about that in just more detail 15:07 as we go into the program. 15:09 So that kind of answers 15:10 kind of two of our questions here and that is, 15:12 are there people burning in hell today? 15:14 Pastor, you confirmed according to Christ's parable 15:16 likening hellfire 15:17 and the destruction of the wicked 15:19 to those tares at the end. 15:20 No, there aren't any people burning in hell today. 15:22 And it also answers the question 15:24 of when will hellfire take place. 15:26 Because many people think it's happening right now, 15:29 as he brought up beautifully, 15:30 hellfire is at the end of the world 15:33 or at the end of the age. 15:34 And we'll get into that in just a little bit more. 15:36 Pastor Kenny, do you have anything 15:37 you wanna add to that? 15:39 Well, you know, there's a passage in the first, 15:41 I think it's 1 Peter 4:17. 15:43 And we use it for other things sometime, 15:45 but I think it's a interesting thought 15:46 because you talk about the judgment. 15:48 And when this is going to take place he said, 15:50 "For the time has come 15:51 that judgment must begin at the house of God for..." 15:53 notice it, 15:55 "what shall the end be of them 15:57 that obey not the gospel of God." 15:58 With the word, 16:00 what is what is gonna be the end of it? 16:01 And when does this take place? 16:03 So I think this is part of our discussion 16:04 that we're having here. 16:06 And the other part, I think was when we were talking about 16:08 what's the purpose of hellfire. 16:10 We could say what the purpose, there's maybe three or four, 16:13 a lot more than that maybe. 16:14 That is to get rid of the enemy, right? 16:16 That's right. Get rid of sin and sinners. 16:18 Sure. Absolutely. 16:19 Ain't right? 16:20 That's it. Get rid of sin. 16:22 And the world can be purified and certainly, 16:23 and we need to be that in this life 16:25 to be ready for the coming of Jesus. 16:26 Absolutely. 16:27 You know, there may be someone at home right now 16:29 that's saying, okay, 16:30 you're saying that hellfire is at the end of the world. 16:31 You're saying there's no one in hell today. 16:33 So then, well, what about those wicked people 16:34 that have died 16:36 all the ceaseless ages, from past? 16:37 And a couple of scriptures that came to mind. 16:40 I want to start Job Chapter 21 here. 16:42 Job 21:29. 16:45 And we're also gonna read on to verse 30, and 32 here, 16:49 so Job Chapter 21, beginning in verse 29. 16:51 He's asking a question here. 16:52 He says, "Have you asked them..." 16:54 and this I think is from the King James Version 16:55 says, "Have you asked them 16:56 to go by the way 16:58 and do you not know their tokens?" 16:59 And then he speaks about the wicked he says, 17:01 "That the wicked is..." and here's the word, 17:04 "reserved to the day of destruction. 17:06 I think I've brought this out in a previous program 17:10 before that hellfire 17:11 as we're gonna see there's many references 17:13 that just as we have the day of the Lord, you know, 17:15 we know that Jesus is coming back, 17:17 and in His Second Coming, 17:18 it's all gonna happen in one single day. 17:20 There's also the day of destruction. 17:22 It says that the wicked will be reserved 17:24 to the day of destruction. 17:26 Hellfire will happen in one single day 17:28 at the end of the world. 17:30 But then notice, speaking of where are those wicked, 17:32 we know that they're reserved right now. 17:33 But where are they being reserved? 17:35 It says they shall be brought forth 17:36 to the day of wrath, there it is again, 17:38 but then notice verse 32, of Job 21, 17:40 it says, "Yet shall he be brought 17:42 to the grave and shall remain in the tomb." 17:44 That's right. 17:46 So that confirms that there's just like even the righteous 17:48 who have went to sleep in the Lord, 17:51 they are in the grave sleeping until Jesus returns, 17:55 or in this case, the wicked 17:56 obviously until this day of wrath, 17:59 which we'll see in just a little bit 18:00 where that's going to be. 18:01 Even 2 Peter 2:9 says the same thing 18:04 that "The Lord knows how to deliver the godly 18:06 out of temptations and to reserve, " 18:08 there it is again, "the unjust into the day of judgment 18:12 to be punished." 18:13 So they're simply just sleeping in the grave 18:16 until Jesus comes back. 18:18 So I want to ask the question, 18:21 how long will people burn in the lake of fire? 18:25 So we know that it's at the end of the age, 18:27 okay, we're gonna talk about that timeframe 18:28 in just a moment. 18:30 But most people believe pastors 18:32 that hellfire is gonna be for long, long, 18:36 you know, infinite amount of time 18:38 where people are gonna be... 18:39 their souls are gonna be burning. 18:41 And, you know, I was taught growing up 18:43 that the devil is down there with his pitchfork, 18:45 you know, making sure 18:46 that everyone's being evenly roasted 18:48 and toasted on all sides, 18:49 horrible image, horrible image. 18:51 But how long will people burn in the lake of fire? 18:54 Well, let's start with Revelation 22:12. 18:57 is the first place to begin 19:01 and as is the case, 19:04 God is a just God. 19:06 Mm-hmm. 19:07 When you go to court, 19:08 do you think that the person with a speeding ticket 19:11 is gonna get the same sentence as a person who's a murderer? 19:15 No. Right. 19:17 Because why, 19:18 the punishment has to fit the crimes. 19:20 Right. Mm-hmm. 19:22 The punishment fits the crime. 19:23 Revelation 22:12 says, 19:25 "And behold, I am coming quickly, 19:27 and my reward is with me to give 19:29 to everyone according to his work, 19:32 or according as his work shall be." 19:33 Mm-hmm. 19:35 So according to the crime the punishment will be. 19:39 There will be varying degrees of punishment, 19:42 but the one thing we can be assured of, 19:43 now let's go to Romans 6:23. 19:46 Okay. 19:47 We can be sure that they're gonna be 19:49 varying degrees, 19:50 but Romans 6:23 makes it very, very clear 19:53 what the end result is going to be. 19:56 "I know by heart the wages of sin is death." 19:58 That's right. 19:59 "But the gift of God is eternal life 20:01 in Christ Jesus our Lord." 20:03 The wages of sin is death. 20:05 Then now go to Revelation 20:6. 20:07 Okay. 20:08 Okay, because we have to link them 20:09 all together. 20:11 That's right. That's right. Revelation 20:6. 20:14 And this is what the Bible says, 20:17 it says, "Blessed and holy is he 20:19 who has part in the first resurrection 20:23 over such the second death has no power." 20:27 The second death is the judgment of the wicked. 20:31 And look at the very last verse, 20:33 Revelation 20:15, 20:35 verse 14, and 15. 20:37 It says, "Then death and the grave 20:39 or death and hell or Hades 20:42 were cast into the lake of fire." 20:44 This is the second death, 20:46 and anyone not found written in the Book of Life 20:48 was cast into the lake of fire. 20:50 So this is the second death, 20:52 but notice, it's the second death. 20:54 So here's the key. 20:56 Death, death. 20:57 The first death is as long as they're in the grave. 21:00 Right. 21:02 The second death is as long as they're in the fire, 21:04 and the fire is not... 21:07 the fire has eternal consequences. 21:10 There you go. Now let's go to Jude. 21:12 Yeah. 21:13 Jude. 21:15 And I'm gonna throw it back to Pastor Kenny 21:16 because I know there are some passages here. 21:18 Jude is only one chapter and verse seven. 21:23 Look at the eternal aspects of it. 21:24 Because remember, 21:26 the only ones that receive eternal life 21:27 are the righteous, 21:29 you have to be able to live forever, 21:30 to be able to burn forever. 21:31 Yes. 21:33 And I know that people are thinking, 21:34 well, what about the soul? 21:35 We'll get to that in Matthew 10:28. 21:37 Here it is. 21:38 Jude only one chapter, verse seven, 21:40 "As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them 21:42 in are similar manner to these, 21:45 having given themselves over to sexual immorality, 21:50 and gone after strange flesh 21:53 are set forth as an example, 21:56 suffering the vengeance," of what? 22:00 All right. "Eternal fire." 22:02 Notice, the fire has eternal consequences. 22:05 Yes. Right. 22:07 Not the process. 22:08 Because, I mean, think about it how long would it take for me 22:10 to burn this booklet? 22:12 Yeah. Right. 22:13 How long would it take for me to burn my house? 22:14 Well, this book was not gonna burn 22:16 as long as the house. 22:17 That's right. 22:18 And the house is not gonna burn as long as a forest. 22:20 And the forest is not gonna burn 22:21 as long as a pitch of tar. 22:23 Yes, yeah. 22:24 Each has a different context. Right. 22:26 But when there's no more tar left, 22:28 fire is gonna go out. 22:30 But the results will be permanent. 22:32 Pastor Kenny. 22:33 Well, I'm just thinking along that 22:35 because your question was asked how long, 22:36 you know, how long will it be? 22:38 Well, get you very clearly. Right. 22:40 Bible says according to Romans 2:6, 22:42 according to our deeds, 22:44 I think this word... 22:45 Yeah, according to our deeds in Luke 12:47, 48, 22:48 talking about there it says, 22:50 "The servant who knew his master's 22:51 will did not," what? 22:53 "Do according to his will shall be beaten with, " 22:54 how many? 22:55 "Many strives, but he who did not know 22:58 yet committed things 22:59 deserving of strives shall be beaten with few." 23:02 So, again, the simple answer to the question will be 23:05 Pastor John covered it well, 23:06 the simple answer would be 23:08 how long does people burn in the lake of fire? 23:10 The Bible doesn't give an exact time. 23:12 But it says, according to our deeds, 23:15 would that not be according to our lifestyle, 23:17 choices that we make, what we do, 23:20 or maybe left undone 23:22 in this life that we'll be judged by. 23:24 And to me, it just makes... 23:25 To me, it makes a lot of sense, 23:27 you think about how just 23:29 and good and merciful that God is 23:31 that he knows all of these things? 23:33 Right. Right? 23:34 No one's gonna get a raw deal in the judgment. 23:37 Everyone will be judged according to their deeds, 23:39 and God has them all down. 23:40 So we won't be able to blame anybody, 23:42 but maybe our self is the end results. 23:45 So I like that question. 23:46 And I can see the goodness and mercy of God 23:49 just coming out 23:50 through this passage of scripture. 23:52 And for anyone to say today 23:55 and people said this to me and I'm sure to you too, 23:57 "Seventh-day Adventists don't believe in a hellfire." 24:00 They say... 24:02 And what do we say? 24:03 We believe in a hotter one than you do. 24:04 Hotter. 24:06 Hotter hell than anybody 24:07 because we believe it's gonna burn things up. 24:08 As a matter of fact, 24:10 and not only do we believe that, 24:11 but that's what the Bible says. 24:12 That's it. 24:14 That where we're about to go to, you know. 24:15 They're not gonna burn forever. 24:17 We've established that, 24:18 it's gonna happen in a single day. 24:19 Yes. 24:21 But on this single day, 24:22 what's going to happen to these wicked? 24:24 What is hellfire gonna do to them? 24:26 Maybe let's jump into Malachi Chapter four. 24:29 Pastor Kenny, why don't you take us there, 24:30 Malachi Chapter four and then, Pastor, 24:33 let me have 24:34 a couple of your scriptures as well. 24:35 Let me... 24:37 In respect, change the chronology of that. 24:38 Okay. 24:39 First, let's address the question 24:41 that a lot of people 24:42 probably tapping on the screen of the television. 24:44 What about this text? 24:47 What about that text? Right. 24:48 Because in Revelation as you go on there, 24:50 and you go to Malachi, 24:51 so I'm gonna read this in Revelation. 24:53 And then when you go to Malachi 4, 24:54 it's gonna go ahead and put this in context. 24:55 All right. 24:57 Revelation 14:11. 24:59 It says and, verse 10, actually, 25:02 "He, himself, " 25:03 speaking about those who received 25:04 the mark of the beast, 25:06 "shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, 25:07 which is poured out full strength 25:08 into the cup of His indignation. 25:10 And he shall be tormented..." 25:11 Come on now. 25:13 "With fire and brimstone 25:14 in the presence of the holy angels 25:16 and in the presence of the Lamb." 25:18 Right. 25:19 And verse 11, 25:20 "And the smoke of their torment, 25:22 ascends forever and ever, 25:25 and they have no rest day or night, 25:27 who worship the beast and his image, 25:29 and whoever receives the mark of his name." 25:32 Some people say, now handle that one. 25:35 Okay, I just made the point. 25:36 I made the point a moment ago 25:38 and Pastor Kenny is gonna confirm it. 25:39 Right. 25:41 They'll be burning as long as there's something to burn, 25:42 but no one that's not righteous 25:45 has anything eternal about them. 25:47 And I'll confirm this after you read Malachi. 25:50 You're going to Malachi now, right? 25:51 Malachi 4:1, 3. 25:54 Malachi 4:1, 3 says, "For, behold, the day cometh, 25:58 that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, 26:02 and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble. 26:06 And the day that cometh shall burn them up, 26:09 saith the Lord of hosts, 26:10 that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." 26:13 Mm-hmm. Now let's go to 3. 26:15 "And ye shall tread down the wicked, 26:17 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet 26:20 in the day that I shall do this, 26:22 saith the Lord." 26:23 Several quick words you just look at, 26:24 behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven. 26:26 Right. We're talking about a hot oven. 26:28 One single day. 26:29 One single day and all the proud 26:30 and all do wickedly is going to be, 26:32 notice, there's a word there, stubble. 26:33 Right. 26:35 You can look that up, that's nothing left, 26:36 all the goods are gone, it's gone, 26:37 it's gonna be reduced to ashes it's said here, 26:39 "The day cometh will burn them up." 26:40 That means completely annihilated, 26:42 burned up means, destroyed. 26:43 There's nothing left to burn as you brought out here. 26:46 That's when hellfire goes out. 26:48 And there's a little passage we'll get into 26:49 as we go through there. 26:51 You shall tread down, who's that talking about, 26:53 "Ye shall tread down the wicked"? 26:55 Who's gonna be left? The righteous. 26:57 Righteous are the only ones to be left, 26:59 the righteous will tread on the ashes. 27:00 Right? 27:01 It's not gonna go on and on and burning, you know, 27:04 because you talk about hellfire, 27:05 if it's going on even right now 27:07 and that's some things I know we all throw in 27:08 as we go here and get deeper into it. 27:11 If hellfire is going, about right now 27:14 then it's gonna go 27:15 throughout all eternity right now, 27:16 it's very interesting that there's no place 27:19 that seemed like in the universe, 27:21 that there's gonna be a hellfire that's burning 27:23 and burning and burning and burning. 27:25 We would all be aware of it. 27:27 Right. Yeah. 27:28 Yeah. And 2 Peter... 27:29 Uh-oh! 27:31 I'm gonna dive there, 2 Peter, look at 2 Peter Chapter 3, 27:33 look at verse 11, and then we're gonna go ahead 27:35 and confirm it really clearly. 27:36 Okay. 27:38 2 Peter 3? I'll start actually... 27:39 2 Peter 3:10 and 11. Okay. 27:41 It says, "But the day of the Lord 27:43 will come as a thief in the night 27:44 in which the heavens will pass away 27:46 with a great noise, 27:48 and the elements will melt with, " 27:50 the elements will melt... 27:51 Thank you. 27:52 "With fervent heat." Yes. 27:54 "The earth also, 27:55 and the works that are in it," will be what? 27:59 "Burned up." Right. 28:01 And so burned up is, what you just read. 28:05 Verse 11. 28:06 "Therefore, since all these things 28:07 will be dissolved..." 28:09 Right. 28:10 "What manner of person ought you to be 28:12 in all holy conduct and godliness. 28:15 Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, 28:18 because of which the heavens will be dissolved 28:22 being on fire 28:23 and the elements will melt with fervent heat." 28:26 Okay. So who's gonna be on the earth? 28:27 Nevertheless, we, according to His promise, 28:30 look for a new heaven, 28:32 new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 28:35 Right. Not the wicked. 28:37 So there's no place where they'll be... 28:38 So I'm gonna pitch forward a challenge here 28:39 because there's gonna be someone watching this who says, 28:42 "Okay, Pastor, yeah, 28:44 you said that we don't burn forever 28:45 in the sense that we burn up but that's our bodies. 28:48 Our souls are gonna get burned for forever and ever." 28:52 So I want to talk about the soul aspect 28:54 and also how do we... 28:55 Is there any evidence biblically that we can say, 28:57 okay, forever... 28:58 what does it mean scripturally to burn forever. 29:02 So let's jump into that a little bit. 29:03 Let's talk about the soul aspect 29:04 and burning forever. 29:06 What does the Bible mean by that? 29:07 Well, here's a soul aspect, 29:08 I'm gonna throw it back to Pastor Kenny. 29:10 Matthew 10:28 is the gavel. 29:14 It is the gavel of the fact that the soul is not eternal. 29:19 It's the gavel. 29:20 In Ezekiel 18:4, Pastor Kenny, maybe you want to bring... 29:22 you probably already have it. 29:24 But look what the Bible says, 29:25 and this is the words of Jesus 29:27 talking about you got to understand 29:28 who to fear. 29:29 It says, "And do not fear those who kill the body 29:32 but cannot kill the soul." 29:34 The word there, soul talks... 29:35 is the Greek word that means the whole person. 29:38 That means his thinking, his life record, his breathing, 29:42 all the things that contributed to that person's existence. 29:45 So it's not some translucent, ghostly apparition in us. 29:46 No. 29:48 But lot of people stop right there and say, 29:50 "See, the soul is eternal." 29:51 But if you read the rest of the text, 29:53 it shows you the soul is not. 29:54 Yes. 29:55 "But rather fear Him," that is God, 29:57 "who is able to destroy both, soul and body in hell." 30:02 And the word there, Gehenna is the lake of fire. 30:04 Right. 30:06 He's able to destroy the soul in hell. 30:08 So the soul is not eternal, Ezekiel 18:4, 30:11 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." 30:14 So this whole theory ideology came out of Neoplatonism, 30:19 that's where the Catholics brought these teachings 30:22 about purgatorial limbo, 30:25 and they use that to seduce people to, 30:28 you know, pay money during the Dark Ages, 30:30 for something that really didn't have 30:31 any support in the Bible. 30:33 Absolutely. 30:34 Pastor Kenny, you wanna add to that? 30:35 So what I get out of that, what He's talking about, 30:37 here the soul then, 30:38 talking about here as three different, 30:39 I jot down three different meanings of it. 30:41 The living being with the... 30:43 which is Genesis 2:7, 30:45 with the mind in the book of Psalms 1:39, 40, 30:48 and just what life. 30:50 We see life here, 1 Samuel 18:1 30:52 refers to the eternal life in that aspect of it, 30:55 and those who make heaven... 30:57 notice, if you're gonna make it, 30:59 no one can take it away from you. 31:00 You know, Bible talks about, if we're in the hand of God, 31:02 right, no man can take you out. 31:04 We can get out if we want to, but no man can take us out. 31:07 So in this, I see that God is telling us, 31:09 it meant, I think, was forever. 31:11 Yeah. 31:12 We're talking about forever here. 31:14 It's used a lot of times in scripture 31:15 and you will have more to say about that in just a moment. 31:17 But many times, but when you do, 31:18 you can read passages of scripture, 31:20 that forever in the English, right, 31:22 language does not mean 31:23 what it does in the Greek or the Hebrew. 31:24 Right. 31:26 You know, in the sense, and then "forever" 31:27 it depends on what you're talking about. 31:29 If you're talking about heaven and angels and God, 31:31 it's one thing, 31:32 you're talking about human being life in here, 31:34 it has a different meaning on here. 31:36 For instance, you know, in Jonah 2:6, 31:38 "Forever, man..." what? 31:40 How many days? Three. 31:41 Three days. Right. 31:43 He said he's forever in the belly of the whale. 31:44 Yes. That's a good point. That was... 31:45 Forever was three days. 31:47 So we look at the context right of it 31:48 and look at the meaning of the word 31:49 and what is talking about here. 31:51 "As long as they live... 31:52 What was 1 Samuel talking about there? 31:54 Right? 31:55 You serve in the courts forever. 31:57 Forever. 31:58 And did he, forever, is he still there? 31:59 No. 32:01 But it was long as he... 32:02 as long as he lived, just like here, 32:03 we stay as long as we live, 32:05 as long as we have life and breath and so on. 32:06 But that time is coming, you know, the wicked, 32:08 it's gonna be snuffed. 32:10 That's right. That's right. Yes. 32:11 And we almost forgot earlier. 32:14 Sodom and Gomorrah was burned with eternal fire. 32:16 Thank you. That's right. 32:18 Well, let's ask the question. There you go. 32:20 Could anybody ask the question? 32:22 Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? 32:24 Right. No. 32:26 And that's what... 32:27 Just to add what you're saying there, 32:28 the scripture actually says unquenchable fire. 32:30 Right. 32:31 So somebody would take that literal and say, 32:33 unquenchable fire never can be put out, 32:35 but you're making the point that... 32:37 That's right. 32:38 Man cannot quench it. Right. 32:40 But when God accomplishes the purpose 32:42 for which he ordained the fire, 32:44 there's nothing that'll be left out 32:46 because Pastor Kenny, and Pastor Ryan, 32:48 you can't get past the fact that the Bible says, 32:51 "They shall be ashes under the soles of our feet." 32:53 That's right. I know, right. 32:55 And when you go to Psalm 37, 32:57 look at Psalm 37 real quick, we notice... 32:59 Psalm 37, Psalm makes it very, very clear. 33:02 Yes. Psalm 37. 33:05 And look at verse 20. 33:07 Twenty. Okay. 33:08 Psalm 37:20. 33:09 Yeah, Psalm 37:20 says, "But the wicked shall perish, 33:13 and the enemies of the Lord 33:14 like the splendor of the meadows 33:16 shall vanish into smoke, 33:18 they shall vanish away." 33:19 Okay. 33:21 And then also, Psalm 37, I believe is verse 10. 33:23 Okay, Psalm 37:10 says, "For yet a little while, 33:27 and the wicked shall be no more 33:29 indeed, you will look carefully for his place, 33:32 but it shall be no more." 33:34 That actually goes along with Obadiah Chapter one, 33:36 which referring to the wicked says 33:38 they will be as though they had now been. 33:41 Now read verse nine. 33:42 Oh, verse nine, the same chapter, okay. 33:44 It says, "For evildoers shall be cut off 33:46 but those who wait on the Lord, they shall inherit the earth." 33:50 Okay, watch this now. 33:51 This is powerful, who is gonna inherit the earth? 33:54 Those who wait on the Lord... That's right. 33:56 The meek shall inherit the earth 33:57 not the weak, the humble. 33:59 Right. 34:00 Those who rely on the Lord will inherit the earth, 34:02 which means, 34:03 if the evildoers are gonna be cut off, 34:06 how are they gonna be cut off? 34:07 In the fire their smoke is gonna go up. 34:10 And as John has shown this conflagration 34:12 in the Book of Revelation, 34:13 remember he's looking at this envision. 34:15 How do you think that picture presents itself, 34:17 John has not envisioned until all the fire goes out. 34:20 He sees a smoke of their torment 34:21 just ascending up, 34:23 "This is amazing," 34:24 he's seeing the world on fire. 34:26 He's writing down what he sees, 34:27 and it looks like it's forever and ever and ever. 34:30 He's shown that last judgment, everything on fire. 34:35 But Peter adding to that says, 34:37 "Yeah, John, but it's gonna be dissolved." 34:38 Yes. 34:39 And then, "Yes, John..." 34:41 Malachi says, "Yes, John, 34:42 but it's gonna be ashes." 34:44 Right. 34:45 So put the whole picture together. 34:46 Don't just create a doctrine on one verse. 34:48 Absolutely. 34:49 And if the wicked live forever, even in hellfire, 34:52 what would that mean? 34:53 Would that mean they're immortal? 34:54 Right. 34:56 John 3:16. Yeah, yeah. 34:57 Immortal there. 34:59 Yeah, and the Bible says that, only what? 35:01 "Only God, in 1 Timothy, was it 6:15? 35:04 "Only God has immortality." Right. 35:06 So I think, I like this 35:07 that we have to weigh all these things in scripture, 35:10 and that's why we do line upon line, 35:12 precept upon precept here little and there little. 35:14 Therefore we understand the truth instead, 35:16 like many have come to you and you, 35:17 different ones to me and say, 35:19 "It says everlasting. 35:20 It says, you know, everlasting punishment, " 35:23 and so on and so forth, instead of punishing. 35:25 So these words we have to look at here 35:28 that make a big difference. 35:29 Well, yeah, you just referenced one right there. 35:31 Matthew 25:41 and 46. 35:33 I've had this people ask me about this one. 35:35 You know, "Ryan, you say that it all comes to an end. 35:38 But the scripture that Jesus says there 35:40 in Matthew 25:41 and 46, 35:42 the wicked will be cast into everlasting fire, " 35:45 everlasting, and, of course, 35:47 "everlasting punishment, " 35:48 and you made a good point there. 35:50 There's a difference 35:51 between everlasting punishment... 35:52 Come on. 35:54 And everlasting punishing, okay. 35:55 And I would just want 35:57 to bring this out really quickly 35:58 before we dive 35:59 into a couple of other texts here. 36:01 Everlasting, again, 36:02 everlasting punishment and everlasting punishing 36:04 are drastically different. 36:05 Everlasting punishing 36:07 communicates a sense of continuance, right? 36:09 Yes. 36:10 But everlasting punishment can mean 36:12 a definite period of time, 36:13 like forever, forever in the Bible 36:15 can mean a definite period of time 36:17 until it's served its purpose. 36:18 And I just made a little note here. 36:20 The result... 36:21 Because a lot of people say, "Wait a second, hold on. 36:23 You're saying that hellfire is not forever 36:26 in the sense that heaven is forever, right?" 36:28 Because, you know, we believe that literally, 36:32 forever the righteous 36:33 will be with Christ for all eternity. 36:36 And so there are some texts that seem to say 36:39 that hellfire is for all eternity unquenchable, 36:43 everlasting, everlasting fire, 36:45 everlasting punishment forever, 36:48 the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever, 36:50 day and night. 36:52 And so they read these texts, they say, "Wait a second. 36:54 It's the same for both, heaven and hell. 36:55 It's forever in eternal." 36:57 But what we have to understand is 36:58 it's not the act in and of itself, 37:00 but rather notice, 37:01 the results... 37:03 That's right. 37:04 Of redemption and judgment will be everlasting. 37:07 Let me say that again, 37:08 the results of both redemption and judgment 37:12 will be everlasting. 37:13 So because I am reading the results of my... 37:16 of Christ's righteousness in my life 37:18 gives me the gift of eternal life, 37:20 which is never ending, 37:22 that's the result of that the redemptive life. 37:25 However, the judgment aspect, 37:27 it's until it serves its purpose. 37:30 Okay? Right. 37:31 So it's not this never-ending 37:32 ongoing forever and ever and ever and ever, 37:35 and so forth and so on. 37:36 So that being said, 37:38 let's jump into something else here 37:39 that I think is valuable and important. 37:41 In fact, we may even take 37:42 the remaining new few minutes we have here 37:44 until our closing break, 37:45 to pick apart 37:47 probably one of the biggest stories 37:49 that was often tossed to me and said, 37:52 "Ryan, I hear what you're saying about hell. 37:55 I hear what you're saying that, you know, 37:56 everyone burns up in a day 37:58 and that it's at the end of the world. 37:59 But, hey, what about the story of the rich man and Lazarus?" 38:03 Luke Chapter 16. 38:05 Let's go there. 38:06 And I'm gonna toss it to you fellas to see how... 38:09 Let's read through this 38:10 and determine what is this parable, 38:13 and I want to emphasize that, 38:14 what is this parable saying to us 38:16 in Luke 16 about the rich men and Lazarus? 38:17 Okay, turn it, let's start walking through it together. 38:19 Mm-hmm. 38:20 Because this is important. Yeah. 38:22 And you hit the nail on the head, 38:24 as you mentioned it. 38:25 The parable of the rich man and Lazarus, 38:27 which you have to keep in mind is what Jesus is talking to, 38:32 is the end result of those who have the Gospel, 38:37 but refused to share the Gospel 38:39 because he brings out certain characters in here 38:42 that are just when we look 38:43 throughout the entire passages of the Bible, 38:45 we begin to see all these characters are clear. 38:48 So now let's go ahead and start with verse 19. 38:50 We'll read through it. 38:51 I'll just do as quickly as I can. 38:53 "There was a certain rich man 38:55 who was clothed in purple and fine linen 38:58 and fared sumptuously every day." 39:01 Purple and fine linen, 39:02 that's the description you find clearly, 39:04 these are colors that are identified 39:06 with the priestly robes... 39:07 Yeah. That the Jewish leaders wore. 39:09 Yeah, sure. 39:10 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, 39:11 full of sores who was laid at his table." 39:14 There is no record of a man existing that way at all. 39:16 Lazarus was not a beggar. 39:18 And he didn't have sores, the actual Lazarus. 39:20 So right away, we find in the parabolic sense, 39:23 this has to be a parable, 39:25 because there was no man named Lazarus 39:27 that had sores like that. 39:28 The Lazarus the Bible talked about 39:30 was the brother of Mary and Martha. 39:32 And when this was given, he hadn't even died. 39:34 And I want to interject here, 39:36 establishing that it's a parable, 39:38 because I've had many people say, 39:39 no, this is not a parable, this is a real story. 39:42 But you can notice right off the front, 39:43 notice first 19, "There was a certain rich man." 39:45 Right. Well... 39:46 Jesus would often use that type of language 39:48 when he was speaking of a parable. 39:50 You can get proof of this in the previous Chapter, 39:51 verse 15, Chapter 15 of Luke, verse 11. 39:55 Notice how when he starts the parable of the lost son, 39:57 what does he say? 39:58 "A certain man had two sons." There you go. 40:00 So there's the evidence of the fact 40:01 that this is a parable, it's not a real story. 40:03 Amen. Continue, brother. 40:04 And the verse 1 of Chapter 16, he says also, 40:06 that he also said to his disciples, 40:08 that there was a certain rich man... 40:09 Right. 40:11 Who had a steward, 40:12 and an accusation was brought to him. 40:15 So he's using these parabolic language. 40:17 He pulls, 40:18 "There was a certain city I went to, 40:19 you know, Shangri La." 40:21 And we know there's no such thing 40:22 but when you try to communicate a lesson, 40:24 so let's go quickly to the imagery. 40:26 And he says, "Desiring..." Verse 21 of chapter 16, 40:29 "to be fed with the crumbs 40:30 which fell from the rich man's table. 40:32 Moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores." 40:36 All the language that's being used here, 40:38 when the word dog, 40:39 the rich man that had the bread, 40:41 what do you get when you have a loaf of bread? 40:43 You get crumbs. 40:44 What's the bread 40:45 that Jesus is talking about here? 40:47 He made that very clear in John 5:39. 40:49 Right. 40:51 You search the scriptures 40:52 and then you think you have eternal life, 40:54 but these, they're tested by me. 40:55 Right. 40:56 They had the whole loaf but they missed Jesus, 40:59 he was standing right there. 41:00 That's right. And he says, there was... 41:02 He had... 41:03 "There were crumbs falling from his table..." 41:04 Mercy. 41:06 "But he ignored the needs of the people." 41:07 Let's go on further. 41:08 So it was in verse 22, that, "The beggar died, 41:10 and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. 41:13 And the rich man also died and was buried." 41:14 Now let's once again look at the imagery here. 41:17 Is Abraham's bosom the cemetery? 41:19 No. 41:21 Why is Abraham mentioned 41:22 because the Jews always looked at Abraham 41:24 as the person that gave them the advantage of being saved. 41:26 Right. 41:27 They even said to Jesus, are you as all as Abraham? 41:30 He was their key patriarch. Mercy. 41:31 He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." 41:33 And let me give you a chance to read some of that, 41:35 go ahead, Ryan, verse 23. 41:36 Sure, so verse 23 here says, 41:39 "And being in torment, " so he's died, he's buried now, 41:42 "And being in torments and Hades..." 41:44 It's the lake of fire. Yeah, okay. 41:45 "He lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off 41:48 and Lazarus in his bosom. 41:51 Then he cried and said," 41:53 I'm just gonna read through this 41:54 and I'm gonna pitch to you guys 41:55 to come back and pick this over. 41:57 It says, "Then he cried and said, 41:58 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me 42:00 and send Lazarus 42:01 that he may dip the tip of his finger 42:02 in water and cool my tongue, 42:04 for I am tormented in this flame.' 42:06 But Abraham said, 'Son, 42:07 remember that in your lifetime you receive your good things, 42:10 and likewise Lazarus evil things, 42:12 but now he is comforted. 42:14 And you are tormented.'" 42:16 Verse 26. 42:17 "'And besides all this, between us and you, 42:19 there is a great goal fixed 42:20 so that those who want to pass from here 42:23 to you cannot 42:25 nor can those from their pass to us.' 42:27 Then he said, 'I beg you, therefore, Father, 42:29 that you would send him to my father's house 42:32 for I have five brothers, 42:34 that he may testify to them, 42:36 lest they come to this place of torment.' 42:39 Abraham said to him, 42:41 they have Moses and the prophets, 42:42 let them hear him or hear them. 42:44 And he said, 'No, Father Abraham, 42:46 but if one goes from them from the dead, 42:50 they will repent.'" 42:51 And then the last verse here, 42:53 "But he said to them, 42:54 'If they do not hear from Moses and the prophets, 42:55 neither will they be persuaded, 42:57 though one rise from the dead.'" 42:59 That's right. 43:00 So, Brother Kenny, 43:02 let's go through this a little bit here 43:03 and let's pick it apart. 43:04 I'll let you guys kind of play some ping pong here 43:06 on picking this apart. 43:08 What about this parable tells us it's a parable. 43:10 And what does it make very clear to us 43:13 that this is not a realistic story 43:14 that Jesus is telling. 43:15 I'll chime in after you, Pastor Kenny. 43:17 Go ahead. 43:18 There's like one point you talked about and said, 43:20 Abraham's bosom is not heaven. 43:21 Right. That's for sure. 43:22 Hebrews 11 talks about that, but I heard once a guy say, 43:26 "Well, if Abraham's bosom is heaven, 43:28 then he has a big bosom." 43:29 Right. Right. 43:31 You know like, I mean, that just can't possibly be 43:33 even just to the thinking individual, 43:35 right, with common sense. 43:36 One other thing, people in hell 43:38 can't talk to those in heaven, what does that mean? 43:39 People that are dead, people who aren't. 43:41 There's no communication between the two. 43:44 So therefore, to me, it's just, you ask questions... 43:46 And not only that there's no consciousness in death. 43:48 Right. 43:49 That's another thing. Yeah. 43:51 That's beautiful. The dead are where? 43:52 The Bible said the dead are where? 43:53 They're in their graves, they're sleeping. 43:55 And Job 17 talk about here and John 5 talks about, 43:58 you know, what happens. 43:59 So we know there can't be. 44:00 So all of a sudden if I come across something 44:02 when I'm reading scripture like that, and I say, 44:03 "Wait a minute, that doesn't gel 44:05 with some other passage of scripture 44:06 I've read before. 44:08 Consistently, I've read 44:09 about what happens when you die. 44:11 Right. 44:12 Here this seems like, one point seems to be like, 44:14 oh, people just take one point 44:16 and they leave the weight of evidence 44:17 way over here. 44:18 I mean, you can have pounds of it over here. 44:20 You can have an ounce here and sometime we take an ounce. 44:21 Right. 44:23 But one of the things, to me, if I believe that God, 44:27 like many people believe what God is 44:29 and what He does and so on, 44:30 I'm not sure I could love in the way 44:31 that I need to love Him. 44:33 Right. 44:34 Absolutely. Can you? 44:35 No. Yeah, I don't think so. 44:37 Because there's something about that, 44:38 that doesn't gel in the scripture. 44:40 Right. Absolutely. 44:41 Yeah, makes sense. 44:42 The other thing that He brings out 44:44 in verse 24, He says, 44:45 "Have mercy on me, 44:46 send Lazarus 44:48 that he may dip his finger in the water 44:49 and cool my tongue." 44:51 I just so happened to have water here. 44:52 Well... 44:53 Now I've been talking a mile a minute. 44:55 I just want you to put that camera on me. 44:57 Let's just here this example very quickly. 44:59 My finger's clean but it's my own finger. 45:01 Now watch this. I'm not in hellfire. 45:04 Dipped my finger, now I'm not in hellfire. 45:09 Do you think that I just said I had enough water? 45:12 No. No. 45:13 Wait, wait, wait, wait. 45:15 Because most people's traditional belief of hellfire 45:18 is that they're engrossed in these flames. 45:20 They're being tormented. 45:22 How can anyone... 45:24 Here's another point that I've always noticed, 45:26 how can anyone carry on an intelligent conversation 45:28 while being, you know, just swallowed in flames? 45:31 Yeah. 45:32 But here's the point I want to illustrate 45:34 and they turned the camera away when I started drinking 45:35 because that's naturally what they do. 45:37 But I wanna illustrate that for a particular purpose 45:39 because if you're thirsty... 45:42 Right? 45:44 You need water. But now watch this. 45:45 My finger is a... 45:46 There's a dip of water on the tip of my finger. 45:50 I'm trying to get across the fires. 45:52 It just evaporated, but try it again, 45:53 it just evaporated. 45:55 Not only that, verse 26, besides all this, 45:58 there's a gulf between you and me 46:00 that we cannot pass. 46:03 We cannot help the dead and the dead can't help us. 46:06 Why? 46:07 Because they're both dead. 46:09 You don't get immediately carted after death 46:12 into any place of Abraham's bosom. 46:14 They all go to the grave. 46:16 And in this whole aspect of it here, 46:18 and the five brothers, 46:19 that's another point of it 46:21 and there's is so much language here, 46:22 but the other point I want to bring out 46:23 is the dogs. 46:25 The dogs will always call... 46:26 the Samaritans will always call the dogs. 46:28 Right. 46:29 You know, let me give an example. 46:31 Matthew 15:26. 46:32 "It is not good to take the children's bread 46:35 and throw it to the little dogs. 46:36 Mercy. 46:37 "Jesus said, even the little dogs 46:39 eat the crumbs, 46:40 which fall from their master's table." 46:43 Notice the same language. 46:45 Even the dogs eat crumbs 46:47 that fall from their master's table. 46:49 So dogs eating crumbs, the same language, 46:51 the same picturesque language, 46:53 that whenever the Samaritans around, 46:55 they said, "Don't throw your pearls 46:57 to the swine." 46:58 They looked at the Samaritans as dogs. 47:00 That's why in the parable, the one they call the dog, 47:04 the "Samaritans," 47:06 were the ones that saw after the needs 47:10 of those who were hungry, naked. 47:11 That's what 47:13 the whole Matthew 13 is all about. 47:15 When was I hungry and naked 47:16 and when was I in that condition 47:18 and you helped me out? 47:19 So that's the issue here. 47:21 The Jews were so stuck on their religious... 47:23 Right. 47:25 I'm trying to use a good word. 47:27 They were so spiritually constipated. 47:28 Right. 47:30 Well... That... 47:31 No, they were so full of themselves. 47:33 Yes. I got it. 47:34 They had everything right. 47:36 But they did not love people. That's right. 47:37 You have to be careful 47:38 when you think you have it all right, 47:40 and you ignore the needs of people. 47:41 That's what this parable is about. 47:43 That's why it says, verse 24, 47:44 "I have five brothers that they may testify to them 47:47 lest they also come to this place of torment." 47:49 What five brothers do they have? 47:51 The first five Books of the Bible. 47:53 That's right. The Pentateuch. 47:55 Penta meaning five, 47:57 I can't get help from those five books. 47:59 Well, you better warn those who are putting their hope 48:01 in those five books unless they also come here. 48:03 Right. 48:04 And lastly, they have Moses and the prophets. 48:07 That's the Old Testament. 48:10 They got all this stuff and they ended up in hell. 48:11 Yeah. 48:13 What's amazing, you know, 48:14 I just have to unpack this just for a moment, 48:15 because this is a powerful point. 48:18 You know, I have preached this message, 48:20 because I used to believe in the opposite of this. 48:22 I used to... 48:24 I grew up believing and was taught 48:25 that when a person dies, 48:27 they're gonna find themselves immediately 48:29 in one of two places, 48:30 either the presence of God forever, 48:32 or an eternal tormenting hellfire, 48:34 right? 48:36 And I was taught, you know, and again, 48:37 you mentioned I think earlier, 48:39 and I think even Pastor Kenny referenced this, 48:41 that people often use this message 48:43 to try to scare people into the faith. 48:45 You know, I remember standing and hearing 48:47 the preachers preach from behind the pulpit. 48:49 "If you don't do this, and you don't do this, 48:51 you're gonna burn in hell forever," you know. 48:54 And the people went, amen, amen. 48:55 And it was... 48:56 That's a message that brings about a decision 48:59 based on fear. 49:00 But we know the Bible, 49:01 the God of the Bible 49:03 doesn't want you serving him out of fear. 49:04 That's right. 49:05 He wants you to choose to serve Him because of love. 49:09 And, you know, when I listen, even this particular parable, 49:11 just something baffles me about this. 49:13 I'm gonna read it and make my point here. 49:14 It says here. 49:15 Look at the latter few verses 29 and 30 here. 49:18 Abraham says to him, 49:20 they have Moses and the prophets, 49:22 let them hear them. 49:23 Now in this case, we can generally say 49:25 what Abraham is saying to this man 49:27 who is ultimately gonna burn in hell, 49:30 he's saying to him, look, they have the Word of God, 49:34 just as you have the Word of God, 49:35 but you rejected the Word of God. 49:37 Now they have the Word of God, 49:39 they need to have a relationship with the Lord, 49:42 based on the Word of God 49:43 so that they don't come to the same place 49:44 that you come to. 49:46 And I've noticed the response of this rich man, 49:48 even in these engrossing flames, 49:51 notice what he says here, 49:52 "And he said, no." 49:54 Wow! I just wanna pause there. 49:57 And it breaks my heart. 49:58 You know, I've been in this situation 50:00 many times 50:01 when you're preaching the truth, 50:02 you're giving them an abundance of evidence 50:04 from the Word of God. 50:05 You're trying to break 50:07 open the bread of life with them, Brother Kenny. 50:08 Yeah. 50:09 You're trying to share from the Word of God 50:11 and the heart of the Lord with them from the Word, 50:12 and what is their response? 50:14 "No, I would rather keep believing 50:15 what I want to believe." 50:16 That's essentially the mindset that we're seeing here. 50:19 He's saying, "No, Father Abraham, 50:21 but if one goes from the..." 50:22 In other words, I don't need the Word. 50:24 Give me a sign in a wonder. 50:26 Give me a miracle. 50:28 And here's what's interesting. 50:29 And he said, "No, 50:31 but even if one goes from the dead, 50:33 they will still not repent." 50:34 And we know that a few days 50:36 after Jesus would have told this parable, 50:37 what did Jesus do 50:39 just that He resurrected a real man named Lazarus. 50:42 Lazarus presents himself 50:44 to the same Pharisees in the temple, 50:47 having been dead for four days and did they believe? 50:49 They went to kill Jesus, yes. 50:51 The Bible says they wouldn't want... 50:52 they plotted to kill Jesus and Lazarus. 50:55 They said, "He's got to die." Yes. 50:57 The point of this we're making here is that 50:59 it's very, very powerfully important, 51:01 my friends, 51:02 that when the Word of God comes and the truth comes, 51:04 that you allow that truth to convert your soul now, 51:08 not later when it's too late. 51:10 Allow the Word of God 51:11 to penetrate your heart and mind. 51:13 Brother Kenny, Pastor, Brother Kenny, 51:16 we have about a minute left before our break. 51:18 Do you have something you wanna add 51:19 to anything we've said so far about this parable? 51:21 You know what, I'm thankful that's here... 51:23 I think it's just so clear, 51:24 it's clear cut you can tell it's a parable right there 51:26 just by going down what everybody did here. 51:28 And just look at those points right there. 51:30 Just good common sense, Bible study, looking at it, 51:32 you can find it is a parable and you just rule it out 51:35 as somebody's trying to say it's truth. 51:37 Absolutely. Absolutely. 51:38 And the nutshell of this is simple message, 51:42 how you live, be not deceived, God is not mocked. 51:46 Whatever man's sows that shall he also reap. 51:50 They sowed gluttony, they did not share the Word. 51:53 And Acts Chapter 13 says in verse 46, the latter part, 51:57 "And since you judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, 52:01 we turn to the Gentiles." 52:02 Mercy. 52:04 That's the ultimate rejection of the Jews 52:05 that just didn't wanna have anything to do with Jesus. 52:08 You don't want it? 52:09 We'll turn it to Gentiles, the ones you call dogs, 52:12 received it and they were glad. 52:13 Amen. Amen. 52:15 Thank you, Pastor, so much. 52:16 Hey, we have just a few seconds left here. 52:18 We're gonna take a break in just a moment. 52:20 But, you know, God is a God of love. 52:22 And when we come back from this break 52:23 that we're about to take, 52:24 we're gonna take a couple of minutes, 52:26 our closing minutes to unpack God's attitude 52:28 towards the destruction of the wicked. 52:30 We want to know how does God feel about this, 52:32 so don't go anywhere. 52:34 We'll be right back. Amen. |
Revised 2020-07-21