I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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- Hello, friends!
Welcome to 3ABN Today. My name
00:01:10.03\00:01:12.83
is John Lomacang, and
to my immediate left is
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my copilot, my
lovely wife! How you doing,
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hon? - Oh, I'm
doing great. So glad to be
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here, and we're so
blessed to be above the ground.
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Any day is a good
day when you're above the
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ground. - I second
that. I second that very much.
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And whenever I have my
wife with my on the program...
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We like to bounce back
and forth, and this is one of
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those programs where we're
going to be bouncing thoughts
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back and forth because we
have some very interesting,
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I would say, cutting-edge
guests when it comes to
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the sanctuary. Today, our
topic, I could say, will be
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thriving in the wilderness.
A lot of people talk about
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freedom in Jesus. They
say, "I've been set free";
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but we'll talk about the
story of- many Bible topics
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about freedom. But
between where the Lord set them
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free and where they're
headed is the wilderness.
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How do we thrive spiritually
in the wilderness? And our
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guests will talk about
today that particular topic. But
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I want to thank you
for your prayers and your
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financial support of this
network. Isn't it amazing,
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honey? - Yeah. We are so
blessed... - How many years
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now? - What, being
here? What, 16? - Wow. We've
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been here 16 years, and
we have seen one miracle
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after the other. - Amen.
I'm so privileged and honored
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to be a part of this
ministry. - That's right.
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So whatever you do to
keep us going and growing
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until the Lord comes,
we do appreciate it very
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much. But before we go
on and introduce our guest,
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honey, we have some music.
- Yes! We always love to have
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Jaime Jorge. And he's
gonna play his violin,
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and the song is
called, "Face to Face."
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- Thank you, Jaime, for
that wonderful, wonderful
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rendition of "Face to
Face." - Yeah. That's a special
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song in my family. I
know we've had people
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sing that at many of the
funerals, but the message
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is just beautiful.
Face to face with Christ my
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Savior. - And that's
what we're longing for. But
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before we go any further,
I think it'd be nice at this
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point to introduce
our guests who have come
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today to talk about thriving
in the wilderness. You might
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say, "Well, what does
that mean?" Stay tuned and you
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will find out how we
can all thrive as we follow
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Christ. First of all,
I'd like to welcome Pastor
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Alex Niculaescu. Am I
saying that correctly?
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- That is correct. -
Man, I really worked hard
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on that! [laughter] I
hit a home run on that.
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Well, good to have you
here! - Oh, absolutely. It's
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good to be here, thank
you. - Yes! Give us kind
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of an overview of where
you pastor, a little bit
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about yourself... - Sure! I
pastor in Michigan Conference,
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and I'm married and have a
little baby girl who's the love
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of my life. They're both
the love of my life, but...
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- What's her name? -
Her name's Alice. - Alice...
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- Hm! - Yeah. She's the
cutest little thing, and
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taught me a lot-taught
me a lot about just the
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way that God the Father
looks at us. And so, just
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being a father, I'm sure...
it's a learning experience
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being a parent. -
Mm. - Yeah. We're still
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working on developing
our ministry which works
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with the idea of the
issue of slavery and how
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to war against it-spiritual
level as well a practical
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le- well, they're all
practical, but a physical
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level, so... - Okay.
And to your right is Alex
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Longoria. - Levi. -
Levi! I gave you a new name.
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- Yeah, you did. - I looked
right at it. [laughter] I gave
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you his first name
and your own last name.
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[laughter] Levi, good
to have you here. - Thank
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you. It's a privilege. -
Yes. And tell our viewers
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and listeners a little
about yourself. - Yeah.
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As far as my regular
sort of day-to-day life,
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I live up in
Michigan, as well, and I work in
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physical therapy. I
do home care, so I go and
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help people in their houses
to sort of get back on their
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feet, so to speak, and
I'm also keeping busy with
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doing the ministry
with Alex and trying to move
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that forward, as well,
as God directs us. - Hm!
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- How did you both meet?
- Actually, we met in 2007
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at Arise. We both attended
arise when it was here in-
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well, in Michigan before
it moved on, so... - Okay!
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So you kind of grew
spiritually together in
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Arise. - Yeah, but we
actually didn't know each
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other very well even
though we were acquaintances.
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We didn't connect again
until six years afterwards.
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So in 2013, I
actually asked him to come to
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Brazil while I was
doing a project there, and it
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was kind of random how
I came across his name,
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but I was like, "Oh, I
haven't talked to him in
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six years. Let me
go ahead and ask him."
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He came, and since
then we've been working on
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the ministry
together. And so, it's been...
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Yeah. It was a divine
appointment, so. - Have
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you given a title to
your ministry, or...? - Yeah,
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it's Crying at the
Gates. - Crying at the Gates.
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- Based off of
Proverbs chapter 1. - Okay. What
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made you choose that
title? - Well... - 'Cause
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somebody's gonna ask.
- Sure, absolutely. So in
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Proverbs chapter 1, like
the very first advice that
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Solomon gives or receives
is that he should depart-
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right, he's giving
wisdom to his son-that he should
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depart from joining
hands with those that exploit
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others for profit. -
Hm. - And then the very next
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thing is that wisdom
is going throughout the
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city, and all the
chief places crying aloud,
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"How long?" - Hm. - "How
long will this continue?"
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And so we felt that
what we're basically doing is
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we're going through the
chief places, we're going
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through the cities...
Our ministry started off by
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actually walking
through cities and praying and
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calling out to God
on behalf of those that
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have no voice, so
the idea of crying at the
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gates was basically us
going through the cities
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and crying out on behalf
of wisdom, "How long will
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this continue?" Let
the exploitation, let the
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oppression, cease. -
That's interesting. You know,
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"Crying at the Gates."
Talk about that, walking
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through the cities. Name
some of those places. I mean,
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that's interesting,
because you think about that:
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People have heard of prayer.
Would you call it a prayer
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walk, or...what would
you call it? - Sure, and some
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people will describe it
as that. I think it's that,
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but it's a little bit
more than that, as well, and
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I think it starts with
the idea that before Abraham
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received the land-he
never received it, actually-
00:10:03.30\00:10:06.33
but before the
children of Israel received it,
00:10:06.43\00:10:09.27
he was promised it, and
God said, "Walk the length
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and the breadth of
it." And then Joshua, before
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he was going to go
into the Promised Land, he
00:10:14.51\00:10:17.31
basically was walking
around. Like, they walked
00:10:17.41\00:10:20.12
around the very first
city that they conquered, and
00:10:20.18\00:10:22.15
he said, "Wheresoever you
set the sole of your foot,
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that have I given you." So
there's definitely something
00:10:24.02\00:10:25.95
to territory in being
physically present, and
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we discovered that in a
very practical sense multiple
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times that there's physical
territories that belong to
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the devil. - Hm. - You
want to be present because God
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is a god of free
choice; and if there's nobody
00:10:37.70\00:10:39.20
representing Him-right?-then
there's no way that those
00:10:39.27\00:10:43.24
people can actually have
access to that. So we went
00:10:43.30\00:10:45.41
physically into
places, we prayed for places...
00:10:45.51\00:10:47.58
So, that was kind of
our ministry. We walked
00:10:47.64\00:10:52.11
completely around the
cities, and then we walked
00:10:52.18\00:10:54.18
through all of the areas,
including the most dangerous
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areas so that we could be
present in those areas and
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lift them up-be ambassadors,
be present, allow God to open
00:11:00.26\00:11:04.33
up doors for divine appointments
but also that we can cover
00:11:04.39\00:11:07.23
it in prayer, so... - And
also, like on a very practical
00:11:07.30\00:11:12.07
level, a reason to go
somewhere to pray, like
00:11:12.13\00:11:16.17
specifically for
that place, is so that you
00:11:16.24\00:11:18.91
know what's there-so that
you know what to pray for.
00:11:18.97\00:11:20.48
We didn't know
before we went to Brazil, we
00:11:20.58\00:11:23.35
didn't know about
the hotels with the heart
00:11:23.45\00:11:26.15
symbol on the sign and
the things that would go
00:11:26.25\00:11:29.28
on in there unless we were
like standing there in front
00:11:29.32\00:11:32.29
of it and we could pray for
it specifically, or we didn't
00:11:32.35\00:11:35.52
know about all the
people that we met, for example,
00:11:35.56\00:11:37.36
like on the streets
and the places that we saw,
00:11:37.46\00:11:40.36
the neighborhoods
that we went through, etc.
00:11:40.43\00:11:42.20
So, there's sort of like
the spiritual application of
00:11:42.26\00:11:46.37
how God wants a representative
in a place like for legal
00:11:46.43\00:11:51.27
purposes in the
spiritual aspect to invite Him
00:11:51.34\00:11:55.44
somewhere, but
there's also the other side of
00:11:55.51\00:11:57.58
practically...I
didn't know what to pray for
00:11:57.65\00:12:00.42
before we went
there. I didn't even- it was
00:12:00.48\00:12:02.85
very vague otherwise.
So, there's kind of the
00:12:02.92\00:12:06.05
two purposes. - That's
pretty interesting. - Yeah.
00:12:06.12\00:12:10.33
Were there lives
that were changed? - Oh,
00:12:10.39\00:12:12.89
absolutely. Absolutely.
Tons of lives were changed,
00:12:12.93\00:12:15.03
and we were able to interact
with people that all told
00:12:15.10\00:12:19.07
us that no one from
our side, so to speak, had
00:12:19.17\00:12:22.70
ever or would ever talk
to them. Our first experience
00:12:22.80\00:12:26.44
was actually with a high
priest of Candomblé, which
00:12:26.57\00:12:29.51
is a black magic,
kind of voodoo religion.
00:12:29.61\00:12:31.65
- Was that in
Brazil? - That was in Brazil.
00:12:31.78\00:12:33.21
And so, we walked at the
very first slum of Favela
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.18
that we were in. We were
told that we were going to
00:12:35.25\00:12:37.25
go talk to the big
boss, and we thought, "Maybe
00:12:37.32\00:12:39.02
that's a drug trafficker,"
or something like that,
00:12:39.09\00:12:41.02
but it ended up being
the high priest. And so, he
00:12:41.12\00:12:44.39
basically said that,
"Hey, nobody ever comes, and
00:12:44.49\00:12:47.93
we know about
spiritual warfare; we know the
00:12:48.03\00:12:49.63
darkness. We know that
it's real, but we don't know
00:12:49.73\00:12:51.83
what the other side
is like because there's
00:12:51.93\00:12:53.40
never been a representative.
And if we had another choice,
00:12:53.47\00:12:55.67
maybe we'd choose it.
So, thank you for coming
00:12:55.77\00:12:57.67
here. You have free access."
And that was basically the
00:12:57.74\00:13:01.01
experience that we
had multiple times. We met
00:13:01.11\00:13:04.21
witches, we met high
priests, we met traffickers
00:13:04.31\00:13:07.25
of all sorts-drug traffickers,
human traffickers, arms dealers-
00:13:07.32\00:13:10.49
all those kinds of
things, and they weren't even
00:13:10.59\00:13:12.15
afraid to admit those
things to us. There were
00:13:12.25\00:13:13.82
people who tried to rob
us, and we ended up having
00:13:13.92\00:13:15.66
lunch with them,
praying with them, things like
00:13:15.72\00:13:17.33
that. - Wow. - It's
amazing how prayer can disarm
00:13:17.43\00:13:20.86
people quite literally.
Like, there were times
00:13:20.96\00:13:24.33
where our lives were in
danger, and yet we never
00:13:24.43\00:13:26.67
felt fear, we never
felt that we were risking
00:13:26.77\00:13:29.80
anything; we always felt
protected. - That's right.
00:13:29.90\00:13:32.67
- It's as if this
wall was there. - Wow.
00:13:32.77\00:13:35.31
- That could not have
been otherwise. But also, the
00:13:35.44\00:13:37.51
wall that existed beforehand
between us and those people
00:13:37.61\00:13:40.78
was broken down. So,
there's a wall of protection
00:13:40.88\00:13:43.02
that comes up and a
wall of separation that goes
00:13:43.08\00:13:45.05
down. - Oh, I like that.
I like that. One separates;
00:13:45.15\00:13:49.72
one unites." -
Exactly. - That's interesting,
00:13:49.82\00:13:52.33
because when you think
about the walls, we live
00:13:52.43\00:13:55.46
in a society of walls.
People could be sitting
00:13:55.56\00:13:57.07
next to you on the train
in major cities, they could
00:13:57.17\00:13:59.90
be sitting next to you
on the plane... We travel
00:14:00.04\00:14:01.90
quite a bit, and there
are people on the plane
00:14:02.04\00:14:03.37
that are sitting next
to us. We make it a habit
00:14:03.41\00:14:05.44
to introduce
ourselves, and in many cases we
00:14:05.57\00:14:08.31
plant a track or we
get a phone number or we...
00:14:08.44\00:14:13.01
- Bible study. -
That's right. In many cases,
00:14:13.15\00:14:15.85
a Bible study. But the
wall comes down, because
00:14:15.95\00:14:18.85
you're walking into
this cavern of the unknown,
00:14:18.95\00:14:23.12
and people tend to
live their lives in that, "I
00:14:23.79\00:14:26.13
have my box around
me; my wall is around me."
00:14:26.19\00:14:28.86
That's pretty interesting.
When did the idea come
00:14:28.93\00:14:31.03
to you to do that? -
Well, I'll be honest with you-
00:14:31.13\00:14:33.70
it wasn't original. I
think what I had wanted to do
00:14:33.80\00:14:37.17
initially is the way
that most men do things is
00:14:37.27\00:14:39.27
with their hands, and so
I figured, hey, we're going
00:14:39.37\00:14:41.64
to go do a camp for
kids that are going to be at
00:14:41.74\00:14:44.31
risk for trafficking.
That didn't work out, and so
00:14:44.41\00:14:47.82
I kind of, out of a
month of trying to connect with
00:14:47.92\00:14:50.82
different organizations
and get this camp organized,
00:14:50.92\00:14:52.82
it kind of flopped on
its face, and I just decided,
00:14:52.89\00:14:56.32
"Well, okay, I'm just
going to take a walk."
00:14:56.39\00:14:57.73
So I took a walk, and I
saw somebody on the corner
00:14:57.76\00:14:59.56
of the street. I was like,
"Man, I don't speak Portuguese.
00:14:59.69\00:15:01.66
I can't say anything
to them." So I just prayed
00:15:01.73\00:15:03.60
for them, and then
I saw another person
00:15:03.70\00:15:05.47
and another person
and started just randomly
00:15:05.53\00:15:07.00
praying for people,
and then started noticing
00:15:07.14\00:15:09.74
places that I was walking
through. Like, old, boarded-up
00:15:09.80\00:15:11.91
windows, this, that,
and the other, and so I just
00:15:12.01\00:15:14.01
started paying
attention to my surroundings and
00:15:14.11\00:15:15.94
praying for those areas.
And before I knew it, five
00:15:16.04\00:15:17.71
hours had passed, and a
lightbulb, like... "Okay,
00:15:17.78\00:15:20.68
Lord, I get what
You're trying to get me to do.
00:15:20.75\00:15:22.28
You're wanting me to
cease my dependence upon man and
00:15:22.38\00:15:26.55
what we can do, and You're
trying to tell me that You
00:15:26.62\00:15:28.62
want me to join
hands with You and approach
00:15:28.79\00:15:31.86
it at a very different
manner"-a very spiritual
00:15:31.96\00:15:34.56
approach. It opened up
our eyes to a number of
00:15:34.66\00:15:37.67
things, so... Yeah. -
And there's always the two
00:15:37.77\00:15:41.70
sides, again. You
have, always, the spiritual
00:15:41.80\00:15:46.81
"work," if you want
to say that-the spiritual
00:15:46.88\00:15:49.14
part that we're supposed
to do-and you always have,
00:15:49.24\00:15:52.11
also, the physical
thing- the sort of hands-on
00:15:52.21\00:15:56.48
aspect, which is what,
initially, Alex was trying,
00:15:56.58\00:16:00.56
when he went to
Brazil, to do the hands-on part
00:16:00.69\00:16:03.29
first. That always
comes as a result, but really,
00:16:03.39\00:16:06.73
we should put the spiritual
first and let the other be
00:16:06.83\00:16:09.76
a result of it. And when
you think about that whole
00:16:09.86\00:16:13.13
situation, just the
way that it worked, is that
00:16:13.23\00:16:18.21
God basically shut
all the other doors before
00:16:18.31\00:16:21.18
He opened the one
that He wanted us to end up
00:16:21.24\00:16:24.51
going through. -
Okay. - And sometimes, it's
00:16:24.58\00:16:26.82
like that. There might be
even people that are watching
00:16:26.88\00:16:29.65
right now that are
going through stuff like that
00:16:29.72\00:16:32.65
where they just feel like
everything is like, shutting
00:16:32.72\00:16:34.72
down, God's not blessing
them, so to speak, in the
00:16:34.82\00:16:37.43
ways that they would think...
but it's sort of a thing we
00:16:37.53\00:16:41.96
have to learn that
those are sometimes the way
00:16:42.06\00:16:44.10
that God funnels us, so
to speak, like to what He
00:16:44.20\00:16:47.74
actually wants us to
end up doing. - His ways are
00:16:47.84\00:16:49.44
not our ways. [Yeah.]
- His thoughts are not
00:16:49.50\00:16:51.41
ours. - I'm actually
glad that I went through all
00:16:51.47\00:16:53.38
of those months of kind
of like, being shut down
00:16:53.44\00:16:55.41
and dead ends and frustration,
because I would've not had
00:16:55.48\00:16:59.91
my eyes opened to all
of those experiences had I
00:17:00.02\00:17:04.72
gone my way; I would've
stuck in one city and done
00:17:04.82\00:17:07.46
one thing. I mean,
God took me to a number of
00:17:07.56\00:17:09.39
cities. I got to
meet thousands of people,
00:17:09.46\00:17:11.33
wrote lots of
names... It was something that
00:17:11.39\00:17:14.23
just kind of- it
opened up our worldview into
00:17:14.33\00:17:17.93
just something we had
never seen before. So,
00:17:18.03\00:17:22.04
yeah. It's still happening;
it's still happening, so...
00:17:22.14\00:17:24.91
- Hm. - Yeah. When people ask
us, things/thanks? for talking
00:17:25.01\00:17:28.81
about human trafficking,
"What do I do? What do
00:17:28.91\00:17:30.25
I do?" I'm just kind of
like, "Man, I don't want
00:17:30.28\00:17:31.71
to tell them to immediately
go and do something,"
00:17:31.78\00:17:33.62
because you have to understand
that the spiritual precedes.
00:17:33.72\00:17:36.55
And if you don't understand
the spiritual aspect of it,
00:17:36.69\00:17:39.12
I'd be somewhat afraid
or at least cautious and
00:17:39.22\00:17:41.92
immediately jumping into a
physical resolution. - Okay.
00:17:42.02\00:17:46.29
Now, ministries all
have an inception point and
00:17:46.39\00:17:49.26
a growing point.
You've been here a couple of
00:17:49.33\00:17:51.90
years ago. What's happened
in your ministry since? Kind
00:17:51.97\00:17:54.57
of give us an update.
- Well, I suppose in the
00:17:54.67\00:17:56.97
eyes of some, it would
probably be a step back.
00:17:57.07\00:17:59.81
- Hm. - And I think
that if you were to talk to
00:17:59.87\00:18:06.72
us, which you are,
but we would basically say
00:18:06.78\00:18:09.25
that God has been
working in ways to prepare us in
00:18:09.32\00:18:12.89
a wilderness type of
experience for something
00:18:12.95\00:18:15.96
great. Moses was extremely
trained, he was extremely
00:18:15.99\00:18:18.83
capable, but he
wasn't ready. And in order to
00:18:18.89\00:18:22.80
deliver people from slavery,
he needed to go through an
00:18:22.86\00:18:25.40
extremely, I guess you
could say, isolative period
00:18:25.43\00:18:28.87
of time where God would
basically break him down
00:18:28.94\00:18:31.91
and get him prepared to
handle the weight of what
00:18:31.97\00:18:36.41
he was about to
embark upon. - Wow. - And so,
00:18:36.48\00:18:39.78
I think that what God
has been basically doing, He
00:18:39.85\00:18:42.48
says, "Listen, I appreciate
what you're doing, Alex
00:18:42.55\00:18:44.55
and Levi, but you
guys... You're stepping onto
00:18:44.62\00:18:48.56
grounds that are"... I
mean, it's a serious issue.
00:18:48.62\00:18:51.76
- Right. - Dealing
with slavery, dealing with
00:18:51.83\00:18:53.63
somebody's property, dealing
with these types of things,
00:18:53.70\00:18:55.66
you're really putting
yourself on the devil's
00:18:55.70\00:18:57.97
playground. And if
you're not prepared, if you're
00:18:58.03\00:19:00.64
not covered, if you
don't have humility, if you're
00:19:00.70\00:19:03.20
not where you need to
be, your ministry will be
00:19:03.30\00:19:05.21
compromised very
quickly. - Exactly. - And so, He
00:19:05.27\00:19:08.54
needed to break us, and
He's still in the process-
00:19:08.61\00:19:11.35
and yes, we've been learning
a lot, we've been growing
00:19:11.45\00:19:13.42
a lot, but we've
also... God has been humbling
00:19:13.48\00:19:17.25
us in a very real
way, and it's kind of like,
00:19:17.32\00:19:20.89
"Man, I want to get
back to it, I want to do what
00:19:20.96\00:19:22.42
I need to do," but what
I realized is so often than
00:19:22.52\00:19:25.93
not, we try to save
to world when our lives
00:19:26.03\00:19:27.83
are a mess. And if
we're trying to solve great
00:19:27.93\00:19:29.96
problems when we can't
even handle little problems,
00:19:30.07\00:19:32.70
then what's going
to happen? God can't
00:19:32.77\00:19:34.97
trust us. He who is faithful
in the little things will be
00:19:35.04\00:19:37.81
faithful in the
great things, and so God is
00:19:37.87\00:19:39.24
taking us back and
He's saying, "Hey, listen,
00:19:39.27\00:19:40.91
you've got these breaches
in your life. Let's mend them.
00:19:41.01\00:19:43.38
You've got these holes
that Satan could exploit.
00:19:43.45\00:19:45.68
Let's get them
covered up. You've got these
00:19:45.75\00:19:47.42
weaknesses. Let's make
them your strengths. So
00:19:47.52\00:19:49.65
that when you go into
those places, you're no
00:19:49.75\00:19:51.72
longer going to be a liability
to Me-you're going to be a
00:19:51.82\00:19:54.19
blessing to somebody."
- That's amazing. And have
00:19:54.29\00:19:56.22
you seen that also in your
life, Levi? - Oh, yeah. This
00:19:56.36\00:19:58.53
past year is for sure,
I mean, for both of us,
00:19:58.63\00:20:02.13
exactly the wilderness
experience, so to speak.
00:20:02.20\00:20:06.13
And I'm not just saying
that because of the theme
00:20:06.27\00:20:09.87
that we're talking
about. I've said that multiple
00:20:10.01\00:20:12.44
times in the past months
to various people is that
00:20:12.54\00:20:16.54
I feel very much like
God- sort of a bigger picture
00:20:16.61\00:20:22.35
of the original thing
of how it happened, going
00:20:22.45\00:20:25.92
to Brazil and doing all
that, where it feels like
00:20:26.02\00:20:28.39
God shut all the doors
in order to take a step
00:20:28.49\00:20:34.36
back from everything
and learn the ways that He
00:20:34.46\00:20:37.50
wants us to learn. Start
with the right foundation,
00:20:37.57\00:20:40.24
break down the
things that we were building
00:20:40.30\00:20:42.90
on that shouldn't be
what you build on that need to
00:20:43.00\00:20:46.71
be taken away. And not
that there was ever, you
00:20:46.81\00:20:50.38
know...anything was done
insincerely or anything like
00:20:50.45\00:20:55.92
that; we just do the
best as each one of us goes
00:20:55.98\00:20:58.52
in all of our lives
and our Christian walks. As
00:20:58.62\00:21:02.02
we go, we do the best
with what God has taught
00:21:02.12\00:21:05.33
us to that point, and there
are these times like he was
00:21:05.46\00:21:08.46
saying with Moses where
God took him completely away
00:21:08.60\00:21:13.13
to a situation which was
very underwhelming, maybe
00:21:13.23\00:21:17.81
I can say... - I like
that. - And it was sort of like
00:21:17.91\00:21:20.64
the exact opposite of
where he thought he was leading
00:21:20.71\00:21:24.21
where God was going to
take him at that point,
00:21:24.31\00:21:27.25
but it was so that God
could actually take him
00:21:27.32\00:21:29.92
where He wanted. - As
I'm listening to you, I'm
00:21:30.02\00:21:32.42
developing a picture in my
mind. I get these... My wife
00:21:32.49\00:21:34.59
knows I get these unusual
pictures that I don't usually
00:21:34.69\00:21:37.49
have at all times. It
could be like the race
00:21:37.59\00:21:39.89
track of life where you
get off the- in the pit.
00:21:39.96\00:21:44.27
- Mm. - Yeah. - Mhm. - You're
in the pit, and you have to
00:21:44.33\00:21:46.47
stop there, 'cause the
Lord wants to give you better
00:21:46.57\00:21:49.07
tires, because what you
have is not going to take
00:21:49.14\00:21:51.01
you to the end of
the journey. Your tank is
00:21:51.07\00:21:52.61
empty. He needs to
fill you and then surround
00:21:52.71\00:21:56.01
you with people that could
help you get to where you're
00:21:56.11\00:21:58.08
going. - Mhm. - And
so, that may be some of the
00:21:58.18\00:22:00.92
things that you're experiencing.
- It is, and a lot of it is
00:22:01.02\00:22:05.22
just like that,
because I know this past year,
00:22:05.29\00:22:08.36
year and a half-for me
definitely, and really,
00:22:08.46\00:22:11.93
for both of us-the way
that God has started to
00:22:12.03\00:22:16.97
teach us things is like
going almost back to the
00:22:17.03\00:22:20.74
drawing board. Not new
truths, not different truths,
00:22:20.84\00:22:24.07
per se, but a new way of
understanding and presenting
00:22:24.17\00:22:28.61
them through especially
and specifically through
00:22:28.68\00:22:31.55
the sanctuary. - Deep?
Revelation, so to speak.
00:22:31.61\00:22:34.38
- So it's like, taking
us back to the beginning of,
00:22:34.48\00:22:38.95
"This is how I want
to teach you, and this is
00:22:39.05\00:22:40.76
how I want you to
present things from now on," and
00:22:40.86\00:22:43.22
it's just opened up
a whole new world, so
00:22:43.29\00:22:46.33
to speak, for both of
us, really, and the way we
00:22:46.39\00:22:49.36
understand the issues
of slavery and trafficking
00:22:49.46\00:22:52.17
and life and Christ and
His work-all of it. - Yeah.
00:22:52.27\00:22:57.11
The word, when we talked
about slavery and trafficking,
00:22:57.17\00:22:59.17
that's a very interesting
topic. - What do you mean
00:22:59.24\00:23:01.81
when you say, "slavery"?
It is physical, mental...?
00:23:01.91\00:23:04.51
What do you mean? -
Yes. [laughter] That pretty
00:23:04.61\00:23:08.48
much sums it up. - Spiritual?
Mhm. - Well, the thing is,
00:23:08.58\00:23:10.99
slavery, we believe,
is the mechanism by which
00:23:11.05\00:23:13.59
Satan uses primarily
to destroy the object of
00:23:13.69\00:23:17.69
God's affection. - Yes.
- And the definition that
00:23:17.76\00:23:20.36
we use of slavery is the
exploitation of somebody's
00:23:20.46\00:23:23.06
vulnerability for the
sake of one's own gain. And
00:23:23.16\00:23:26.00
every single one of us has
some level of vulnerability, and
00:23:26.13\00:23:29.44
that could be a vulnerability
in your health, a vulnerability
00:23:29.50\00:23:31.77
in your education, a
vulnerability of where
00:23:31.84\00:23:34.44
you're born in society,
a vulnerability... There's
00:23:34.61\00:23:37.15
vulnerabilities everywhere.
And the thing is, any one
00:23:37.21\00:23:39.71
of those vulnerabilities
could be exploited for
00:23:39.78\00:23:41.88
the sake of somebody
else's own gain. And so for us,
00:23:41.98\00:23:45.95
slavery is a lot
more... It's a much bigger issue
00:23:46.02\00:23:50.13
than just human trafficking.
Human trafficking, I think,
00:23:50.23\00:23:52.73
is one of the niche outworking's
that we see that is absolutely
00:23:52.79\00:23:58.27
horrible. Like when you
hear about the types of things
00:23:58.33\00:24:00.10
that are happening to people
and whatnot, you're absolutely
00:24:00.20\00:24:03.27
appalled. But at the
same time, you have to realize
00:24:03.37\00:24:06.14
that the entire...I
don't want to say the system
00:24:06.21\00:24:08.38
to make it sound like,
you know...but everything
00:24:08.44\00:24:10.55
that Satan has been working
over the years through every
00:24:10.65\00:24:13.11
level that he
possibly can is for the purpose
00:24:13.21\00:24:16.42
of exploitation. - Mhm.
- And we're all vulnerable,
00:24:16.52\00:24:19.29
and I don't think
we understand how to
00:24:19.35\00:24:21.52
escape that.
'Cause ultimately, the war
00:24:21.59\00:24:23.22
that started was over the
mind. It was over the minds
00:24:23.32\00:24:26.70
of the angels, like, "Is
God true, or is Satan true?"
00:24:26.76\00:24:29.90
And so, what ultimately
the gain to be had is,
00:24:30.00\00:24:34.44
is he going to
capture our minds?-right? And
00:24:35.64\00:24:39.41
if he can't, he will
get us physically. He will
00:24:39.47\00:24:41.44
bypass our free will and
he'll force us, coerce us,
00:24:41.51\00:24:43.35
manipulate us-all that
he has to do to basically
00:24:43.45\00:24:46.72
get us to worship
him whether willingly or
00:24:46.82\00:24:49.62
unwillingly so that
we become slaves. People
00:24:49.72\00:24:52.62
who kind of say,
"I'm a slave to sin," and
00:24:52.72\00:24:55.09
diminish that as being
less than physical slavery,
00:24:55.16\00:24:57.93
I don't think that's
true at all, 'cause I believe
00:24:58.03\00:25:00.20
that the true type
of slavery is a mental/
00:25:00.30\00:25:02.73
spiritual type of slavery,
and the physical is just
00:25:02.83\00:25:05.47
a means to get
there. - Oh, okay. So that's
00:25:05.57\00:25:08.30
the outworking of what's
going on on a deeper level
00:25:08.37\00:25:11.37
internally. - Yes. Absolutely.
- A lot of times, people will
00:25:11.47\00:25:13.84
just flippantly say, "Well,
I know I'm a slave to sin.
00:25:13.91\00:25:16.34
I'm struggling with
this, struggling with that"...
00:25:16.44\00:25:17.91
But what's
happening on the inside is far
00:25:17.98\00:25:19.95
deeper. And so, the external
evidences are manifesting
00:25:20.02\00:25:24.19
themselves so when you
talk about the wilderness,
00:25:24.29\00:25:28.12
slavery, trafficking,
you're looking at it
00:25:28.19\00:25:31.59
not just from the logistical
perspective, meaning, "This
00:25:31.69\00:25:34.56
is literally happening,"
"Slavery is literally
00:25:34.66\00:25:37.47
happening," but you're
talking about it from a
00:25:37.53\00:25:39.73
spiritual perspective,
also. - Mhm. - Build
00:25:39.80\00:25:43.34
on the word "trafficking,"
because we talk about
00:25:43.44\00:25:45.57
human trafficking. We know
that's a very dark industry.
00:25:45.67\00:25:50.38
I don't even want to use
the word "industry"; that's
00:25:51.11\00:25:52.55
a very dark practice-
enslavement of man against
00:25:52.61\00:25:56.65
his or her will. - And
so, I mean, trafficking-
00:25:56.72\00:25:59.69
I mean, if we go back
to the Bible, the first
00:25:59.79\00:26:02.26
time that I think we
see the word, especially in
00:26:02.36\00:26:05.36
relation to Satan, is
in Ezekiel 28 where it says
00:26:05.43\00:26:08.20
that by the multitude of
his trafficking-right-and
00:26:08.26\00:26:11.47
then we also have Revelation
18 where it talks about
00:26:11.57\00:26:13.80
when this system is
falling at the great men of the
00:26:13.90\00:26:16.81
earth are wailing
because they were made rich by
00:26:16.91\00:26:19.57
her merchandise. It
talks about merchants of the
00:26:19.67\00:26:24.88
earth, it talks about ships,
it talks about goods, it talks
00:26:24.98\00:26:28.12
about bartering in human souls
and in men... And so we see
00:26:28.22\00:26:32.75
that it's not just physical
goods; it's people that are for
00:26:32.82\00:26:35.72
sale on the market. There's
a number of ways to go about
00:26:35.79\00:26:39.56
it. At some level, it's
a bit difficult to explain,
00:26:39.63\00:26:44.17
but even purchasing lies
puts you at risk of being
00:26:44.27\00:26:48.27
enslaved, or actually
puts you into slavery.
00:26:48.34\00:26:51.24
But what we talk about
human trafficking today
00:26:51.34\00:26:54.64
is literally the
physical trafficking of human
00:26:54.74\00:26:58.11
beings, i.e.
through kidnap or whether
00:26:58.21\00:27:00.78
they've been coerced
into it, or whether they
00:27:00.88\00:27:02.92
chose to do it
(there's people who choose to
00:27:02.98\00:27:04.42
do it for various reasons).
- But not knowing how far
00:27:04.52\00:27:06.59
it's going to take them.
- Exactly. Right. And so,
00:27:06.69\00:27:10.06
there's many people
who choose to enter it, and
00:27:10.13\00:27:12.33
then they wish they
could get out, and they don't
00:27:12.43\00:27:14.03
know how to get out. And
so, there's a period of time
00:27:14.16\00:27:16.77
that some men and women
stay into it before they
00:27:16.87\00:27:19.60
come to themselves, just
like the prodigal son. He
00:27:19.67\00:27:22.90
thought that he knew what
he was getting himself into,
00:27:23.00\00:27:25.41
and then he is
feeding pigs, and it says, "He
00:27:25.51\00:27:27.48
came to himself." - Yes.
- Right. - And so, there's
00:27:27.54\00:27:29.78
kind of like, this
moment where you have to be in
00:27:29.84\00:27:31.85
that trouble, in that filth,
for enough time for you to
00:27:31.95\00:27:35.65
come to yourself and be
like, "This is not what I'm
00:27:35.68\00:27:37.29
meant for." - Wow. - And
so, yeah. There's a lot there,
00:27:37.35\00:27:41.59
and I don't think I would
do it any justice by trying to
00:27:41.72\00:27:45.49
sum it up too much, but...
- Yeah. - Say your favorite
00:27:45.66\00:27:51.17
text or one of your texts,
Romans 6:16. - I think that
00:27:51.23\00:27:54.94
that text in the Bible
has become, to me, very
00:27:55.04\00:27:58.77
pivotal. It's like the
fulcrum point to whether
00:27:58.84\00:28:02.48
you're a slide- you look
at the seesaw. The seesaw
00:28:02.54\00:28:05.15
is a very amazing, very
remedial piece of equipment
00:28:05.21\00:28:10.02
in a playground; but
when it comes to geometry,
00:28:10.12\00:28:13.25
it has a fulcrum
point. And for the seesaw to
00:28:13.32\00:28:16.89
be functional, the geometry
of it has to be, "Where's the
00:28:16.96\00:28:22.76
center point?" Well,
we used to play this game
00:28:22.86\00:28:26.13
years ago, and I remember
in Brooklyn at PS3s, 'cause
00:28:26.23\00:28:30.37
PS3, one of the
schools in Brooklyn not too far
00:28:30.47\00:28:32.17
from my house, they
had a seesaw (and we'd do
00:28:32.24\00:28:36.71
crazy things). But when
there was no other person
00:28:36.81\00:28:39.65
there, we would
start in the middle of the
00:28:39.78\00:28:42.28
seesaw, and we would walk
out really slowly while it's
00:28:42.38\00:28:46.25
up and see how far
we have to go before it
00:28:46.35\00:28:50.09
starts going down, and we
try to stop and balance it
00:28:50.19\00:28:51.96
right there. We're
trying to balance it
00:28:52.06\00:28:54.36
beyond the fulcrum
point, but we often discovered
00:28:54.46\00:28:58.03
that you go beyond a certain
point, you're not going to
00:28:58.13\00:29:01.07
get back. It's going to
come down. What happened
00:29:01.17\00:29:04.71
is you've yielded
beyond the point of no return.
00:29:04.77\00:29:07.18
Romans 6:16 is
that. My wife and I know.
00:29:07.28\00:29:11.25
There are three texts
in the Bible that I believe
00:29:11.35\00:29:13.11
are just so significant
to describing what you're
00:29:13.21\00:29:16.35
talking about-the trafficking
that Satan lures us into
00:29:16.45\00:29:18.85
and then where our decision
to follow along makes us
00:29:18.92\00:29:23.43
voluntary slaves to
the point where we cannot
00:29:23.49\00:29:27.53
break free. In Romans
6:16, "Do you not know to whom
00:29:27.60\00:29:31.13
you yield yourself as servants
to obey, you are that one
00:29:31.20\00:29:34.14
slave whom you obey whether
of sin leading to death or
00:29:34.24\00:29:38.54
obedience leading to
righteousness?" And in
00:29:38.61\00:29:40.88
both cases, somebody
else is leading. - Yes. - All
00:29:40.98\00:29:43.81
you've done is become a
servant. And then all of
00:29:43.91\00:29:46.92
a sudden, you're no longer
the one doing it. Romans 7:17,
00:29:47.02\00:29:50.25
"It's no longer I who do
it but sin that dwells in me."
00:29:50.35\00:29:52.82
And then Galatians
2:20, the freedom side, "It is
00:29:52.89\00:29:55.49
no longer I who live
but Christ who lives in me."
00:29:55.59\00:29:58.69
So you get those, "It is
no longer I; it is no longer
00:29:58.79\00:30:01.16
I." The moment you yield
in any aspect of trafficking,
00:30:01.26\00:30:05.37
people that may even go
into it voluntarily might
00:30:05.47\00:30:08.37
realize, "Wait a minute.
I've yielded. I can't get
00:30:08.50\00:30:11.64
out." And I think that's
what you're talking about
00:30:11.74\00:30:13.84
in a spiritual sense, the
physical trafficking as well
00:30:13.94\00:30:17.05
as the spiritual trafficking-
what people yield beyond
00:30:17.15\00:30:20.15
the point of no return.
At least they can't free
00:30:20.28\00:30:22.08
themselves. - Right.
And so, "yielding" is a very
00:30:22.18\00:30:25.25
important word, 'cause
there's a legal term called
00:30:25.35\00:30:27.99
"tacit consent" or
"acquiescence." And oftentimes,
00:30:28.09\00:30:31.16
that comes into when
we yield to something by
00:30:31.26\00:30:34.56
silence where we don't
actively oppose it, and
00:30:34.66\00:30:38.80
that could be for a
number of reasons. It could be
00:30:38.90\00:30:40.64
because of ignorance; the
terms and conditions haven't
00:30:40.74\00:30:42.77
been explained to us. And
so, a person who is yielding
00:30:42.87\00:30:45.87
to certain things, they
may not truly know what the
00:30:45.94\00:30:48.14
results are. They
assume things, right, based on
00:30:48.24\00:30:50.81
a lack of evidence.
And once they've yielded,
00:30:50.91\00:30:54.12
they've realized
that they've gotten into a
00:30:54.18\00:30:55.68
trap that has now become
extremely difficult to escape,
00:30:55.82\00:30:59.45
especially if you don't know
the rules, if you don't know
00:30:59.52\00:31:02.22
the laws. And so, it's
a very legal thing. - So
00:31:02.29\00:31:07.73
tell me about the team
you're putting together,
00:31:07.80\00:31:10.10
because people that are
in this, I use the phrase,
00:31:10.17\00:31:13.84
"thriving in the wilderness"...
Talk about the education
00:31:13.90\00:31:17.81
that people need to
know where they are and how
00:31:17.91\00:31:22.24
to get to where God wants
them to be. You're talking
00:31:22.34\00:31:25.28
about putting
together a team for educating
00:31:25.35\00:31:26.68
on the issues of
slavery. How's that working? Let
00:31:26.72\00:31:30.45
me hear from you, Levi.
- Well, last year, we had
00:31:30.55\00:31:35.82
something, I guess you
would say it was like a
00:31:35.92\00:31:39.23
summit. Probably
the closest way we could
00:31:39.33\00:31:42.16
describe it is we
got various people from-
00:31:42.26\00:31:46.17
several of them were
from out of state. And Alex,
00:31:47.34\00:31:51.01
myself, and a couple of
people from around Andrews
00:31:51.11\00:31:55.28
and other places in
Michigan together- there was a
00:31:55.34\00:31:58.71
doctor, a lawyer, someone
who works with addiction,
00:31:58.81\00:32:02.28
specializes in addiction,
a teacher...just sort of
00:32:02.38\00:32:09.49
these main areas that
apply in different ways
00:32:09.56\00:32:13.09
to the ideas of slavery
and trafficking-and more
00:32:13.16\00:32:18.13
broad, though. It was
less specific to just human
00:32:18.27\00:32:24.84
trafficking and more to
the idea of just slavery
00:32:24.97\00:32:27.18
in general and how it
applies to all areas of
00:32:27.24\00:32:29.94
life. And so last
year, we got together, and
00:32:30.01\00:32:33.52
we had-what was
it?-four days... - Four days of
00:32:33.58\00:32:38.69
presentations and
critique of presentations, yeah.
00:32:38.75\00:32:41.12
We were together
for about a week. - Yes.
00:32:41.19\00:32:42.96
So, each person had, sort
of like, from their area of
00:32:43.02\00:32:48.86
expertise, their knowledge
that that area covered,
00:32:48.96\00:32:54.74
they would do either one
or multiple presentations,
00:32:54.80\00:32:58.17
and everyone would sort
of put our heads together and
00:32:58.27\00:33:04.58
ask questions and
say, "This is maybe where
00:33:04.68\00:33:07.22
we could go with
this," and, "What can we
00:33:07.28\00:33:08.82
learn from it? What can
we get from each other?"
00:33:08.88\00:33:10.49
So we're trying to
put together a group of
00:33:10.59\00:33:14.09
people that are...to
bring knowledge from different
00:33:14.19\00:33:18.49
perspectives
together so that we can start
00:33:18.59\00:33:21.96
having a balanced or a
very general, broad view
00:33:22.03\00:33:28.07
of this whole thing,
because we're learning as we go
00:33:28.17\00:33:30.27
(especially for myself)...
I really didn't come into
00:33:30.34\00:33:35.61
this ministry and the
things that were involved
00:33:35.71\00:33:39.25
in knowing anything
about slavery, trafficking, any
00:33:39.35\00:33:42.35
of that. Alex had a
lot more background in all
00:33:42.42\00:33:45.65
of that than I did
when we went to Brazil. That
00:33:45.72\00:33:49.52
was sort of our
first introduction to all
00:33:49.59\00:33:51.79
this, or mine, I should
say. - Okay. - So especially
00:33:51.83\00:33:55.36
for me in the past
several years, I'm really amazed
00:33:55.43\00:34:01.70
at the depth in this
whole theme. It's really
00:34:01.80\00:34:05.21
a theme in Scripture, and
within the plan of salvation,
00:34:05.27\00:34:07.74
more than anything,
is that it applies really
00:34:07.81\00:34:12.15
to everything-to every
area of life. And like Alex
00:34:12.21\00:34:18.49
mentioned earlier,
the idea of just physical
00:34:18.55\00:34:22.82
trafficking, sex trafficking,
sex slavery, those kinds
00:34:22.92\00:34:25.86
of things, they are sort
of, I don't want to say a
00:34:25.93\00:34:30.13
side issue, but they're
only one small aspect of
00:34:30.20\00:34:33.23
what the real
principles entail and how they
00:34:33.30\00:34:38.67
apply to life. And so,
that's sort of the group
00:34:38.74\00:34:42.04
that we're trying to
get together. And this year
00:34:42.11\00:34:44.95
and just recently, actually,
God is bringing other pieces
00:34:45.91\00:34:50.02
to that group, to that
puzzle, to the knowledge
00:34:50.09\00:34:53.86
that we want to put
together, and it's becoming very
00:34:53.92\00:34:57.73
interesting. - It's
stuff that will blow your mind.
00:34:57.79\00:35:01.50
It's blowing our
mind. We thought that what
00:35:01.53\00:35:02.86
we learned through our
experiences was something
00:35:02.93\00:35:05.37
new, but God always
brings surprises, and the amount
00:35:05.43\00:35:08.67
of things that we're
learning is stuff that'll
00:35:08.70\00:35:11.47
probably bull over the
church. And in the ways
00:35:11.54\00:35:14.51
that we... - For
example. - Yeah, exactly. - Give
00:35:14.54\00:35:18.05
us a snippet. [simultaneous
chatter] Give us a piece
00:35:18.08\00:35:23.72
of the menu. -
Specially from the legal side...
00:35:23.75\00:35:27.86
- Okay. - You know,
we'd always talk about God's
00:35:27.89\00:35:30.19
name...but when reality
will realize that the Bible
00:35:30.26\00:35:34.70
is so full of legal
terms and there are so many
00:35:34.76\00:35:37.90
different layers to
law that we're completely
00:35:37.93\00:35:40.74
ignorant of, and
really what the case is is a
00:35:40.84\00:35:44.14
defamation case.
God's name is being defamed
00:35:44.24\00:35:47.64
through all that is happening;
and including through His
00:35:47.74\00:35:50.25
people, oftentimes, we
are defaming Him, and it's
00:35:50.31\00:35:53.58
proving Satan's case
true when we engage in that
00:35:53.62\00:35:56.89
type of behavior. -
Hmm. Taking the name of the
00:35:56.95\00:35:59.35
Lord in vain. - Exactly,
right? - It's doing good-
00:35:59.42\00:36:02.36
I mean-but we're doing
evil in God's name, right?
00:36:03.02\00:36:06.23
And the thing is...let's
say that as Christians,
00:36:07.73\00:36:10.50
we end up playing Christianity
a whole lot, and we give God
00:36:10.57\00:36:13.70
a bad name. And so,
we're defaming His character.
00:36:13.77\00:36:17.21
Through the process,
we're actually contributing to
00:36:17.24\00:36:18.67
slavery. But going back
to the legal thing is that
00:36:18.74\00:36:21.21
we were learning about
the different levels of
00:36:21.28\00:36:24.28
law there that I
just wasn't aware about
00:36:24.35\00:36:26.01
that in the United States,
we're subject to different
00:36:26.08\00:36:29.82
layers of law: there's
city law, and then city
00:36:29.88\00:36:32.62
law's subject to state,
and then state to national,
00:36:32.65\00:36:34.36
then I didn't realize
that the national is subject
00:36:34.42\00:36:36.59
to republic laws.
Now, republic is subject to
00:36:36.66\00:36:40.03
something called merchant
law, or admiralty law, which,
00:36:40.10\00:36:44.60
in the past, was called
law of the sea, or trade
00:36:44.67\00:36:47.34
law-commerce law-and
that's actually above the
00:36:47.40\00:36:50.54
law of the republic.
And above that, you have
00:36:50.61\00:36:52.37
common law; and above
common law, you actually
00:36:52.47\00:36:54.28
have spiritual jurisdiction.
So the highest law that
00:36:54.34\00:36:57.78
exists in the world,
even to secular governments,
00:36:57.85\00:37:00.72
is bound by biblical-based
law. So even this thing
00:37:00.75\00:37:04.69
that I mentioned of tacit
agreement or tacit consent
00:37:04.79\00:37:08.12
is actually a principle
based on biblical, and it's
00:37:08.22\00:37:12.33
used within the
context of normal law. And the
00:37:12.43\00:37:17.07
thing is, most of us, we
operate on national level,
00:37:17.17\00:37:20.14
and we don't realize that
there are laws above that.
00:37:20.24\00:37:22.17
And especially in the
understanding of sovereignty,
00:37:22.27\00:37:24.97
we always question like,
"What is God's sovereignty?"
00:37:25.07\00:37:27.58
But when we realize
like, "Wow, there's laws above
00:37:27.68\00:37:29.88
laws," and the highest
law is spiritual jurisdiction,
00:37:29.94\00:37:33.45
then we realize that all
laws in the earth, including
00:37:33.55\00:37:36.08
what Satan tries to
do, can never counteract
00:37:36.15\00:37:38.09
the highest level of
laws. He operates within those
00:37:38.15\00:37:40.66
laws, so we see that
God is in control by virtue
00:37:40.72\00:37:42.96
of the legal system
that Satan can't overthrow.
00:37:43.06\00:37:45.96
He has to operate within
the confines of that, and
00:37:46.06\00:37:48.50
that's how we have
things like rules of engagement.
00:37:48.56\00:37:50.97
Even Satan has to
request certain things from God
00:37:51.07\00:37:54.50
in order to move
forward. And when we begin to
00:37:54.60\00:37:58.11
understand these
things, we no longer have fear,
00:37:58.21\00:38:00.88
because we know
like, "Oh, he's going to be
00:38:00.94\00:38:02.78
playing THAT game, and
I don't need to play that
00:38:02.84\00:38:04.58
game," right?
Because I understand who's
00:38:04.68\00:38:06.61
in control, how the
laws work, and how to operate
00:38:06.72\00:38:09.68
within that system. And
so, it really peels back
00:38:09.78\00:38:12.99
a whole lot and it
makes you understand just many
00:38:13.09\00:38:15.36
things, like... I am
not a legal professional,
00:38:15.46\00:38:18.29
and I've probably said
a few things that a lawyer
00:38:18.39\00:38:20.36
may be, "Ehh," but the
thing is, I'm in the process of
00:38:20.43\00:38:24.30
learning. A lot of the
things- this is kind of
00:38:24.40\00:38:26.80
like, you know,
we're coming together with
00:38:26.87\00:38:28.50
legal professionals who see
the spiritual, where they've
00:38:28.57\00:38:30.91
been involved in counter-
trafficking, and they're
00:38:30.97\00:38:33.34
combining it with
what they know and we're
00:38:33.41\00:38:35.38
combining with what we
know, and we're sharing
00:38:35.44\00:38:37.25
with each other. And
I'm blowing their minds and
00:38:37.35\00:38:39.35
they're blowing my mind,
and it's kind of like when
00:38:39.41\00:38:40.88
we combine it together,
it creates a picture that
00:38:40.98\00:38:43.69
gives you so much
more faith in the fact that
00:38:43.79\00:38:46.19
God is in control,
that God is true, that God
00:38:46.29\00:38:49.16
is just, and that He
wants to set the captives free.
00:38:49.22\00:38:52.56
That's what He came to
do! - That's right. - Amen.
00:38:52.66\00:38:54.80
- Wow, that's interesting.
You know, when you talk
00:38:54.90\00:38:56.97
about the legal
layers... My mind is moving at
00:38:57.07\00:39:00.10
quite a rapid pace, because
the Bible is a book of laws.
00:39:00.20\00:39:03.20
But then, you have this
area that exists when you
00:39:03.27\00:39:07.98
are in Christ. That's
the one place that the law
00:39:08.04\00:39:12.85
has no impact. When
the fruit of the Spirit is
00:39:12.91\00:39:17.39
evident in your life
against such, there is no law.
00:39:18.79\00:39:23.46
So, there's no
confine there. In other words,
00:39:24.09\00:39:26.49
you can't be TOO happy.
You can't be TOO peaceful.
00:39:26.56\00:39:29.86
You can't be TOO loving.
There's no limit; there's
00:39:29.93\00:39:33.23
no law to limit your
peace, your longsuffering,
00:39:33.27\00:39:36.07
your gentleness, your meekness,
your patience... There's no
00:39:36.14\00:39:38.61
law to limit that...but
there IS a law to limit
00:39:38.67\00:39:40.98
your anxiety, your
hatred, your envy, your malice,
00:39:41.04\00:39:45.21
your jealousy... God puts
limits to that, and praise
00:39:45.28\00:39:49.02
God for that! -
Yeah. - Because Satan, you
00:39:49.12\00:39:52.65
find in Scripture,
when demons had encounters
00:39:52.75\00:39:56.83
with Christ, they knew
that there was a limit.
00:39:56.93\00:39:59.53
- Yeah. - Yeah. "Have
you come to torment us before
00:39:59.59\00:40:01.60
our time?" They knew
they were pushing up against
00:40:01.66\00:40:04.80
that-they were stretching
the limits. Even in 1 Peter,
00:40:04.87\00:40:09.07
I believe it is, where
the Bible says, "For if
00:40:09.10\00:40:13.84
God spared not the
angels that sinned but cast them
00:40:13.91\00:40:17.65
to the earth and delivered
them into chains"... He placed
00:40:17.71\00:40:22.45
limits on them so they
couldn't pass the boundary
00:40:22.55\00:40:25.22
of His law-His prohibitions,
which are all based on the
00:40:25.29\00:40:30.89
law of His government.
- It's interesting, too,
00:40:30.93\00:40:33.23
what you're saying,
because there's no law against
00:40:33.29\00:40:35.96
righteousness; there's
no law against the fruit
00:40:36.03\00:40:37.60
of the Spirit, and
Paul talks about how the
00:40:37.63\00:40:39.90
law was for those who are
doing all these wicked things,
00:40:39.97\00:40:43.67
right? Because those are
the things that it applies
00:40:43.71\00:40:46.31
to. It doesn't put any
limitations on righteousness.
00:40:46.37\00:40:49.74
You can go at
infinity, infinitum, to becoming
00:40:49.81\00:40:55.15
more and more like Christ
in His image. And you have
00:40:55.22\00:40:58.22
that in the New Testament,
but you also have in the
00:40:58.29\00:41:00.62
Old Testament, they had
the idea, as well; they just
00:41:00.69\00:41:03.79
had it in different
words. They said things like,
00:41:03.86\00:41:05.66
"You've set my feet in
a broad place," you know,
00:41:05.73\00:41:08.63
"a place that's
open." That's the idea of not
00:41:08.70\00:41:11.50
having the
limitations, because they were
00:41:11.53\00:41:13.77
referring to righteousness.
There was the same thing,
00:41:13.84\00:41:18.81
but just said in different
words. And it's such an
00:41:18.87\00:41:22.48
interesting thought
that even-and I very much
00:41:22.54\00:41:26.45
believe that even in
eternity, even in heaven, we're
00:41:26.51\00:41:29.98
always going to be
growing into God's image forever
00:41:30.09\00:41:33.29
without any limits. -
Oh, yeah. - To the measure
00:41:33.36\00:41:35.79
of the stature of the
fullness of Christ. And
00:41:35.82\00:41:38.59
we know there'll never
be a time when you say,
00:41:38.66\00:41:41.66
"Okay, I think I've learned
all there is to know." It's
00:41:41.73\00:41:44.93
like an ant walking
in there and saying, "I
00:41:44.97\00:41:48.17
think I know all there
is to know about humans,"
00:41:48.20\00:41:49.70
and he's looking up
at us. "I've seen him for
00:41:49.77\00:41:53.01
quite a few weeks; I think
I know all there is to know
00:41:53.04\00:41:55.24
about him." The limitation
of man to the limitlessness
00:41:55.28\00:41:58.75
of God...it's
amazing. - Yeah. I've thought
00:41:58.81\00:42:01.78
sometimes of the
example of an exponential curve.
00:42:01.85\00:42:06.92
You have the two
lines, the asymptotes, the
00:42:06.99\00:42:08.69
vertical. And in the
beginning of an exponential
00:42:08.72\00:42:12.66
curve, it's very drastic,
right? It's very obvious.
00:42:12.73\00:42:16.20
And like when someone
just comes to Christ, they go
00:42:16.26\00:42:19.23
from horizontal to
vertical through the faith walk,
00:42:19.30\00:42:23.71
right? And it's very
clear, the change of life, the
00:42:23.74\00:42:26.94
change of
direction. But as you continue,
00:42:27.01\00:42:29.44
and even into
eternity, you continue going up
00:42:29.51\00:42:32.05
that line, and those two
lines get closer and closer
00:42:32.11\00:42:36.02
and closer together...
A very interesting thing
00:42:36.08\00:42:40.02
about that is that they
can get infinitely close,
00:42:40.09\00:42:44.49
and they're always infinitely
far apart. - Hm. - You
00:42:44.53\00:42:49.76
can go infinitely close to that
line and still forever never
00:42:49.83\00:42:56.44
have the ability to fully
reach the image of Christ,
00:42:56.50\00:42:59.81
because He's so perfect
and so holy. - Oh, yeah.
00:42:59.87\00:43:02.88
- It's really,
it's a perfect example.
00:43:02.98\00:43:05.51
- Mathematical laws
is another thing, but...
00:43:05.55\00:43:08.48
As I'm thinking,
like, there's just so much
00:43:08.58\00:43:10.72
there. There's everything;
everything just shows that
00:43:10.79\00:43:14.92
God is controlling everything
that is created is giving
00:43:15.02\00:43:19.29
glory to Him. - There's
actually a mathematician
00:43:19.33\00:43:22.16
in the group, as well.
- Okay. - Oh, is there!
00:43:22.26\00:43:25.27
How many of you in
the group? - Right now, I
00:43:25.33\00:43:28.84
don't know if we have an
official number... It's kind of-
00:43:28.90\00:43:30.51
but right now, it's 6
of us, and we're trying
00:43:30.57\00:43:33.51
to bring in 3 more on
board. But once we get
00:43:33.58\00:43:36.88
to a good 8-10,
that's when we want to begin
00:43:36.95\00:43:41.05
to actually... We've
kept a lot of information to
00:43:41.15\00:43:43.75
ourselves because
what we wanted to do is we
00:43:43.79\00:43:45.82
wanted to make that the
things that we're sharing
00:43:45.89\00:43:47.72
are things that are
not just worth sharing but
00:43:47.79\00:43:50.43
things that would
be profitable, because
00:43:50.49\00:43:52.09
there are certain
things to know about slavery,
00:43:52.16\00:43:53.83
there's certain things
to know about darkness,
00:43:53.90\00:43:55.23
that won't benefit anybody.
We'll just make them more
00:43:55.26\00:43:57.50
frustrated or make them
go in the wrong direction,
00:43:57.57\00:43:59.77
or they'll start
looking at conspiracies... And
00:43:59.83\00:44:01.44
we believe that
there's a grand conspiracy, but
00:44:01.50\00:44:04.44
somehow chasing the rabbit
hole is not going to get you
00:44:04.51\00:44:06.78
to any resolution.
And so, we wanted to make
00:44:06.84\00:44:10.35
sure that we kind of
come together and say, "Hey
00:44:10.41\00:44:12.38
listen, this is what
we've experienced, this is what
00:44:12.45\00:44:14.12
we've learned; is
this something that people
00:44:14.18\00:44:16.05
need to know, or not
yet? What can we share
00:44:16.12\00:44:18.92
that would be beneficial,
things that could help?"
00:44:18.95\00:44:20.96
And so we're
keeping each other in check.
00:44:21.06\00:44:23.22
- All right. - We want
to make sure we go about
00:44:23.29\00:44:24.63
it the right way, and
so it's the multitude of
00:44:24.66\00:44:26.29
counselors, right? So
that's what we're trying to do.
00:44:26.36\00:44:28.76
We're trying to
surround ourselves with people
00:44:28.83\00:44:30.30
who are passionate
but who are also, we can
00:44:30.37\00:44:33.03
balance each other out,
and we're very prayerful
00:44:33.07\00:44:35.94
in the way that we approach
the whole thing. - Okay.
00:44:36.00\00:44:38.24
- Well talk about action
steps. What is that? - So,
00:44:38.31\00:44:42.61
you want to talk about
the first action step, or...?
00:44:42.64\00:44:44.85
- Yeah. The main
three purposes or goals, I
00:44:44.91\00:44:51.85
guess you could say, long-term
goals that we have, are... #1,
00:44:51.92\00:44:56.79
is what we're
talking about or the purpose
00:44:56.86\00:44:58.99
of what we're talking
about is educating people in the
00:44:59.06\00:45:03.77
very broad base of knowledge
that we're hoping to put
00:45:03.83\00:45:07.70
together. So, that's
the first one. The second
00:45:07.77\00:45:10.21
one, which was, in reality,
was the first one that we
00:45:10.24\00:45:13.88
started with, but
the second one I want to
00:45:13.91\00:45:16.08
mention here is prayer
and praying for, specifically,
00:45:16.14\00:45:22.35
for God to take over
your home, your heart, your
00:45:22.42\00:45:29.02
family, your character,
or your city, etc. This was
00:45:29.09\00:45:33.26
the original purpose and
center of what God really
00:45:33.33\00:45:37.97
called us to, even starting
back in Brazil like we were
00:45:38.03\00:45:41.34
mentioning a little
bit, is praying for God to
00:45:41.40\00:45:45.47
take over territory.
We believe very much that
00:45:45.51\00:45:47.88
that is- and we could have
a Bible study-a whole Bible
00:45:47.94\00:45:51.05
study on that idea.
It's very clear in Scripture
00:45:51.08\00:45:53.21
that it works on territories.
It starts in the territory
00:45:54.32\00:45:58.05
of your heart and your
mind-right?-and it goes
00:45:58.09\00:46:02.52
out from there-it goes
to your family, to your
00:46:02.59\00:46:05.43
circle of friends,
to your influence, your
00:46:05.49\00:46:08.43
church, your city...etc.
The world at large, right?-
00:46:08.46\00:46:13.10
is that God eventually,
in the end, He'll end up
00:46:13.17\00:46:16.64
with this whole
thing as His territory. The
00:46:16.67\00:46:21.14
New Jerusalem comes
down, and God takes over the
00:46:21.21\00:46:24.55
territory of the
earth, but it starts on a very
00:46:24.58\00:46:28.05
small, personal level.
So, this is the second one
00:46:28.12\00:46:33.22
that we want to
really focus on is getting
00:46:33.25\00:46:37.69
people to pray, to pray
for their cities, to pray
00:46:37.79\00:46:40.66
for their families,
to pray for... - Like an
00:46:40.70\00:46:42.66
intercessory
prayer. [simultaneous talk]
00:46:42.73\00:46:44.63
- It's two levels of...
It's intercessory prayer,
00:46:44.70\00:46:47.97
so that, I guess for
lack of a better term,
00:46:48.04\00:46:50.41
self-mastery. He who
rules himself is greater than he
00:46:51.41\00:46:54.31
who taketh the city,
but we also want to take the
00:46:54.38\00:46:56.24
city. - Okay. - We
want to rule ourselves first
00:46:56.28\00:46:58.38
because that's where
the greatest battle is, and
00:46:59.85\00:47:02.45
then we also want to
take the cities. - Okay. - And
00:47:02.48\00:47:05.09
so the idea is that one
of the prayer initiatives
00:47:05.15\00:47:07.76
that we want to do
is we want to unite with
00:47:07.82\00:47:09.76
people in every single
time zone of the world,
00:47:09.82\00:47:13.63
that they would begin
to march on their cities
00:47:13.70\00:47:16.63
in prayer, understanding
the concepts of spiritual
00:47:16.73\00:47:20.87
warfare, so that
they're praying in like manner,
00:47:20.94\00:47:23.24
realizing what it is they're
warring against-not against
00:47:23.30\00:47:25.51
flesh and blood, but against
principalities and powers-
00:47:25.57\00:47:27.54
right? And that way,
if we assign an hour of
00:47:27.61\00:47:31.95
prayer to each of
those time zones, within 24
00:47:32.01\00:47:34.12
hours, there's always somebody
praying on earth. - That's
00:47:34.18\00:47:37.65
right. - So, in every single
city, in every single time
00:47:37.72\00:47:40.02
zone, there is a city
or a place or a region
00:47:40.09\00:47:43.46
that is being
covered in prayer for God to
00:47:43.56\00:47:45.73
basically be asked,
"You were given permission;
00:47:45.79\00:47:49.06
we're asking You to
be here. Take over this
00:47:49.13\00:47:51.00
territory; use us to do
it." And so, it's laying the
00:47:51.10\00:47:53.84
groundwork for when
God is going to open up the
00:47:53.90\00:47:56.94
doors for us to physically
take people out of that,
00:47:57.01\00:47:59.27
because we believe that
the first step that needs
00:47:59.37\00:48:01.24
to be broken down initially
is the spiritual transit?
00:48:01.31\00:48:04.61
are holding people.
Their minds need to be changed;
00:48:04.68\00:48:06.51
they need to have that
mind come to themselves
00:48:06.55\00:48:08.15
that, "I need to get out
of this. Now, I'm looking
00:48:08.22\00:48:10.09
for help; who's
going to help me?" We're
00:48:10.12\00:48:12.02
hoping that we're the
people that God has there.
00:48:12.09\00:48:14.42
- That's right. It's
like a prayer wave. - Yes.
00:48:14.52\00:48:16.06
- Just continues
to... - The prayer of Jabez,
00:48:16.16\00:48:18.33
it reminds me of that.
- Yes. Yes, "enlarge my
00:48:18.39\00:48:20.63
territory." Yeah. - And
it applies, too, more than
00:48:20.70\00:48:25.40
just to bring in
people out of trafficking and
00:48:25.43\00:48:28.27
praying for those issues
in a broader sense. We're
00:48:28.34\00:48:32.44
told, for example, that
the final events will be
00:48:32.54\00:48:36.81
rapid ones, right? The
final thing, God's going
00:48:36.88\00:48:39.01
to do them just like
that, but He's not going to do
00:48:39.08\00:48:41.38
that out of thin
air. - No. - The way has
00:48:41.45\00:48:44.72
to be prepared first, right?
And so, the way is prepared
00:48:44.75\00:48:48.22
spiritually before He
does it physically. And so if
00:48:48.26\00:48:51.16
it's gonna go quick
when that time comes where
00:48:51.19\00:48:55.83
God is gonna do those
things outwardly, externally,
00:48:55.90\00:48:58.67
the way had to have
had been opened already
00:48:58.73\00:49:01.87
spiritually; the
doors already have to be
00:49:01.90\00:49:03.67
opened spiritually for
Him to do that. - Yeah,
00:49:03.74\00:49:06.17
'cause the Lord says
while things are happening at a
00:49:06.21\00:49:08.81
rapid pace and will
happen at a rapid pace and He
00:49:08.84\00:49:12.21
will finish the
work, but Amos-I think it's
00:49:12.28\00:49:14.62
Amos 3:7-"Surely, the
Lord God does nothing except
00:49:14.68\00:49:17.39
He reveals His
secrets to His servants, the
00:49:18.15\00:49:20.39
prophets." So He
keeps us informed about His
00:49:20.46\00:49:23.29
next move, whereas
others won't know about that.
00:49:23.36\00:49:26.46
So when you stay in
harmony with God through-let me
00:49:26.53\00:49:30.47
use the phrase here-the cadence
spirituality, when you are
00:49:30.53\00:49:34.40
in step with the
cadence spirituality, because we
00:49:34.47\00:49:38.57
don't want to be out of
step with God. There's a
00:49:38.61\00:49:41.04
cadence to spirituality.
And just recently, I was
00:49:41.11\00:49:44.91
looking at that where
we could assess ourselves,
00:49:44.95\00:49:46.68
and I like what you
talked about. Self-assessment.
00:49:46.75\00:49:49.28
The Bible says it
this way: "Examine yourself
00:49:49.35\00:49:51.59
to see whether or
not you're in the faith;
00:49:51.65\00:49:54.59
try yourself. Do you
not know except God is in
00:49:54.66\00:49:57.03
you, you are disqualified,"
or "reprobate," as the King
00:49:57.13\00:49:59.69
James version says.
So we don't want to be
00:49:59.73\00:50:01.70
operating-and I
like the way you began it
00:50:01.73\00:50:03.40
earlier-we don't want
to be extending freedom
00:50:03.43\00:50:05.37
to other people while
we're in bondage, ourselves.
00:50:05.40\00:50:07.47
- A slave can't free another
slave. - That's right. - Two
00:50:08.20\00:50:10.64
broke don't make a rich;
it just doesn't work that
00:50:10.71\00:50:13.24
way. You have- -
Blind leading the blind.
00:50:13.31\00:50:14.64
- Ex- blind leading the
blind. Like, you literally
00:50:14.68\00:50:16.54
have to be at a level
where you've experienced
00:50:16.61\00:50:20.35
maybe not total freedom
but some level of freedom
00:50:20.42\00:50:22.58
that you can offer to
somebody else, and we're
00:50:22.65\00:50:24.55
all growing in our understanding
of what freedom truly means.
00:50:24.62\00:50:26.86
- That's right. - And
so were the children of
00:50:26.89\00:50:28.56
Israel. They got
taken out of Egypt and they
00:50:28.62\00:50:31.49
were given freedom,
but they didn't know how to
00:50:31.56\00:50:32.89
handle it. - That's
right. - And so, they needed
00:50:32.93\00:50:34.33
that time in the wilderness
to teach them to be retrained
00:50:34.40\00:50:37.60
about what freedom
truly means. - Wow, that is
00:50:37.67\00:50:40.10
amazing. When you
talk about this "crying at
00:50:40.14\00:50:43.10
the gate"... I mean,
honey, this is amazing.
00:50:43.17\00:50:44.81
And I know that you're
skirting right now 'cause
00:50:44.87\00:50:47.61
you're laying the foundation
for something that is still
00:50:47.68\00:50:49.78
in development. -
Yeah. - But I think what our
00:50:49.81\00:50:51.61
audience is listening
to is there is a growth
00:50:51.68\00:50:54.98
aspect to getting
into bondage, and there's
00:50:55.05\00:50:58.82
an aspect of getting
out of bondage. - Yes. - So,
00:50:58.85\00:51:01.62
what Pastor Alex and
Levi are talking about is, how
00:51:01.66\00:51:06.33
do we get into this
trace? that we're in? How do we
00:51:06.43\00:51:09.46
recognize that we're
about to, even though
00:51:09.53\00:51:12.27
we may voluntarily
say, "This is what I want
00:51:12.33\00:51:14.64
to do," we have to be
mindful. And unless our
00:51:14.70\00:51:17.71
minds are in tune with
God's, we can make decisions
00:51:17.77\00:51:20.68
that seem to be right,
but as the Bible says, "The
00:51:20.71\00:51:23.24
end thereof is the"...
- "Way of death." - Way
00:51:23.31\00:51:25.68
of death. - And so,
we're talking about, how do you
00:51:25.75\00:51:28.62
wake up a person
before they get to the way of
00:51:28.68\00:51:30.45
death? Because so
many people today- you know
00:51:30.52\00:51:33.22
the quote Ellen White
says. "There are many people
00:51:33.29\00:51:34.62
that are going to Christ-less
graves; they are in bondage
00:51:34.66\00:51:38.03
to sin." They're in bondage
to slavery. And though they
00:51:38.13\00:51:42.50
entered that voluntarily,
they can't free themselves.
00:51:42.56\00:51:46.50
And so, we want to make
sure that if you're watching
00:51:46.57\00:51:50.07
the program, we're going
to make sure that you are
00:51:50.14\00:51:52.37
able to get
information to get in touch with
00:51:52.47\00:51:54.14
Pastor Alex...Niculaescu?
- Niculaescu, yeah. - Okay,
00:51:54.21\00:51:59.58
I got that right!
Amazing. That's good.- Because
00:51:59.65\00:52:02.32
of our last name. - I know.
I try to be right with that,
00:52:02.48\00:52:05.19
'cause I'm a Lomacang.
That's actually not the
00:52:05.25\00:52:07.49
right way, either.
It's "Loh-MAH-kahng," but
00:52:07.56\00:52:09.72
we're not talking about
that right now. And also,
00:52:09.79\00:52:12.13
layman Levi Longoria. And
so, here's the information
00:52:12.19\00:52:16.53
that you need to be able
to get in touch with them,
00:52:16.60\00:52:18.43
because what is in development
right now is going to explode.
00:52:18.50\00:52:22.27
And as you've already
heard, Pastor Alex said
00:52:22.34\00:52:24.77
it's mind-blowing already.
- It is. - So here's how you
00:52:24.81\00:52:28.21
can get in touch with
them and invite them into your
00:52:28.28\00:52:29.71
area. - Crying at the Gates
Ministry believes in freeing
00:52:29.78\00:52:34.88
people from
physical, spiritual, and mental
00:52:34.92\00:52:37.65
slavery through
active prayer, rescue, and
00:52:37.69\00:52:40.79
education. In this
way, they cry on behalf of
00:52:40.86\00:52:44.29
those who have no voice
and on issues which many
00:52:44.33\00:52:47.36
are afraid to
confront. Please support their
00:52:47.43\00:52:50.07
commitment to help the
victims of human trafficking,
00:52:50.17\00:52:53.03
emotional abuse, and
prostitution by donating
00:52:53.10\00:52:56.04
on their website,
CryingAtTheGates.com.
00:52:56.10\00:52:59.47
If you would like
more information on their
00:52:59.54\00:53:01.41
ministry, just email them
at info@CryingAtTheGates.com
00:53:01.48\00:53:06.61