I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, I am Shelley
Quinn. I am JD Quinn.
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And we are so glad that
you're joining us today.
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We have a very
inspiring personal testimony
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that we are going to hear,
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but we want to
take this opportunity
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to give you heartfelt thanks
for your prayers and your love
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and your
financial support of 3ABN,
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the mending
broken people network,
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and this testimony that
we're going to hear today
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is astounding.
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Our special guest is a
survivor of the Rwanda Genocide
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and as we had just a few minutes
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to speak with him
before we came on the air,
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I realized that his
story is really about prayer,
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about bold prayer,
challenging God in prayer.
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And it's an amazing
story that will give you faith
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and encouragement.
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To increase your prayer life
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and to know that
God is always there
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as he was talking,
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the verse that came to
my mind was Isaiah 65:24.
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And I love this promise,
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God says,
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"It shall come to
pass that before they call,
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I will answer.
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And while they
are still speaking,
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I will hear,
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and this gentleman
is a pastor, he's a PhD,
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but he was preaching
from the grave in Rwanda.
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And let me
introduce our special guest,
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and let's see if I can say this,
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Doctor Phodidas Ndamyumugabe,
did I do that right?
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Correct. Oh,
boy, praise the Lord.
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You had to be very
smart to learn how to spell.
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It's the whole language.
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It's a sentence actually.
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It means I worship the Lord.
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Praise God.
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I will worship the Lord. Yeah.
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Now that's a... The last name.
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That's a beautiful last
name, I will worship the Lord.
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We're going to come back
for your personal testimony
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in just a second.
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But I know that currently
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you are a professor of
religion at Weimar Institute.
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Right. One year?
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Yes.
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And you're here now
in the United States
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with your wife
and your three sons.
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But the beginning
of his journey here,
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the beginning before
he would became educated
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as a pastor was quite rocky,
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and this is something we want
to encourage you to stay tuned.
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But before we go there,
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we have a beautiful piano solo
and, honey, who is our pianist?
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Kendol Bacchus
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and he's going to be
playing "Give Thanks."
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It certainly is easy
to think "Give Thanks."
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That was such
beautiful soothing.
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Thank you much, Kendol.
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Amen and we do give
thanks with a grateful heart.
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If you're joining
us just a moment late,
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our special guest today
is Dr. Phodidas Ndamyumugabe.
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Correct. Okay.
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I'm so good at this,
I will praise the Lord.
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And what we want to do is
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you brought some
pictures with us, or with you
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that we'd like to show
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right at the
beginning of the program,
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because it is,
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it was so amazing for me to
see how beautiful Rwanda is.
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And to think of the atrocities,
the evil, the hatred, the pride
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that rose up in this nation.
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So here you have Rwanda
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and we can see
where it is in Africa.
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Right in the heart
of Africa, actually,
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that is the map of Rwanda.
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It's a very small country.
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But it is a beautiful country.
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As people can see
probably in the next picture,
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I was born and
grew up in that area,
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there is a beautiful
lake. It's called Lake Kivu.
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It's one of the most
beautiful lakes in the world.
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And the next picture
shows probably more mountains
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and unfortunately,
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even though I was born there,
and my parents were there,
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that is not a place I go today,
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as somebody who goes home,
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because my entire family died,
was killed in those mountains.
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And when you say
the entire family,
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you're talking
about your parents,
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your siblings at
all except one, right?
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One sister survived
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but all of your
nieces and nephews...
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Nephews, they were
like 34 of them actually,
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who were killed within.
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But they are not the only ones
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because more than a
million people were killed
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within only three months.
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In three months.
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Now you have a
picture of some hills here
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that we wanted to look at
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because you
said this is where...
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Yeah, that's, Rwanda is called
the country over 1000 hills.
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That's beautiful.
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And so everywhere you
go are mountains and hills,
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but my story takes
place in such a hills
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actually not so tall, just,
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and I was, you know,
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I spent like more than
30 days running up and down
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and until I reached a
point where I had to dig a grave
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and I had my grave.
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They were forcing
you into it at gunpoint.
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Okay, so let's kind of
rewind for just a second
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and put this into
perspective for our audience.
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This was infighting or civil war
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between the Tutsis and the Hutus
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which are two different tribes.
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Kind of tell us,
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well, even let's
go back before that.
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Did you grow up
in a Christian home?
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Yeah, I was born and
grew up in a Christian home
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in an Adventist family
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and my, especially my sister,
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actually, one of my sisters
was such a wonderful Adventist,
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and it's not
just enough to be born
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in an Adventist family,
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but she taught me
about God in the Bible
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and she actually gave me a book,
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you know, she was
giving gifts to people
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and surprising them.
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And then I was
waiting for my gift.
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And then she came up
with a book, a Bible.
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And she gave me a Bible
and that wasn't a new Bible.
00:11:03.19\00:11:06.59
Actually, I wasn't very
excited about it as a young boy,
00:11:06.63\00:11:10.60
but she gave me her old Bible
00:11:10.67\00:11:12.57
which was
highlighted, underlined.
00:11:12.60\00:11:14.90
How precious.
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And that was going to work out
miracles in my life and maybe,
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if anyone is listening
to us and watching us today,
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I just want, actually,
that's what I'm talking about.
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I'm talking about the
power of the Word of God.
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Amen.
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How it helps you to go
through terrible crisis,
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and helps you to
remain faithful unto God
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and to see God.
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So, Pastor,
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at what point did you actually
give your heart to the Lord?
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How old were you?
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Oh, I was like,
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maybe eight years old.
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Really? Okay. Yeah.
00:11:53.48\00:11:54.98
I was, I grew
up in a rural area,
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you saw the mountains,
and we had cows, animals,
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and I was keeping
the animals of the family
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and now interestingly,
when you are keeping animals,
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you have time, right?
00:12:08.59\00:12:09.92
Yes.
00:12:09.96\00:12:11.29
And so when they're
feeding, I was reading my Bible.
00:12:11.33\00:12:14.83
Praise the Lord.
00:12:14.86\00:12:16.20
And I was focusing on
the highlighted verses
00:12:16.23\00:12:18.23
and these verses were going to,
00:12:18.27\00:12:20.37
you know, just prove to me
that there is a God in heaven
00:12:20.44\00:12:24.94
and He's the God
who never changes.
00:12:24.97\00:12:27.84
So you have this
love for the Lord,
00:12:27.88\00:12:29.84
you become an elder
00:12:29.88\00:12:31.51
at the local
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:12:31.55\00:12:34.55
but now introduce
00:12:34.58\00:12:37.09
how did this civil war,
00:12:37.12\00:12:40.46
this genocide happen
00:12:40.49\00:12:42.79
where the Hutus were
massacring the Tutsis.
00:12:42.82\00:12:47.03
What's the difference
between those two tribes?
00:12:47.10\00:12:50.37
Thank you so much.
00:12:50.40\00:12:51.73
It's actually not so easy
00:12:51.77\00:12:54.24
to describe the difference
between Tutsis and Hutus
00:12:54.27\00:12:57.61
because in some cases
there are no differences.
00:12:57.64\00:13:02.71
When there is hatred,
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you will always see differences,
00:13:04.78\00:13:07.32
but Tutsis and Hutus,
they share the same language,
00:13:07.35\00:13:11.25
they have the same
culture, they intermarried,
00:13:11.29\00:13:15.29
they were basically the same.
00:13:15.32\00:13:17.33
But then there was a
time for political reasons,
00:13:17.36\00:13:21.73
politicians tried to
highlight the differences.
00:13:21.76\00:13:25.53
They say Tutsis are foreigners,
00:13:25.57\00:13:27.84
they came from other countries
and they invaded the country
00:13:27.87\00:13:31.54
and they became the leaders
00:13:31.57\00:13:33.91
and so they
mobilized Hutus to kill Tutsis.
00:13:33.98\00:13:39.18
So this is kind of
a class war, isn't it?
00:13:39.21\00:13:41.42
Because the Tutsis
were a little more of the...
00:13:41.45\00:13:44.95
I don't want to say aristocracy,
00:13:44.99\00:13:46.76
but they were a little
more a richer group, perhaps.
00:13:46.79\00:13:51.79
Yeah basically, but
not all Tutsis were rich,
00:13:51.83\00:13:55.13
but of course, the king
came from the tribe of Tutsis
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and when the European
missionaries came to Rwanda,
00:14:00.37\00:14:06.27
they found...
00:14:06.31\00:14:07.71
Now, usually
when you are wealthy,
00:14:07.74\00:14:09.81
when you have, you drink milk,
00:14:09.84\00:14:12.48
well, you tend
to be taught, right,
00:14:12.51\00:14:15.25
and so because there were animal
00:14:15.28\00:14:17.39
keeping and cattle,
00:14:17.42\00:14:20.26
so they were taller,
00:14:20.29\00:14:21.82
and missionaries
and the colonial power
00:14:21.86\00:14:25.49
didn't see the
similarities to say no,
00:14:25.53\00:14:28.40
these are different,
they don't look alike
00:14:28.43\00:14:31.33
and they distributed ID cards.
00:14:31.37\00:14:33.44
They said, you are a
Tutsi, you get an ID card
00:14:33.47\00:14:36.50
that shows who you are,
00:14:36.54\00:14:38.14
and you are a
Hutu, you get an ID card.
00:14:38.17\00:14:40.78
And in some instances, actually,
00:14:40.81\00:14:42.84
they could be some Hutus
who were given Tutsis ID cards
00:14:42.88\00:14:46.85
and there were Tutsis
00:14:46.92\00:14:48.25
who probably were
given other ID cards.
00:14:48.28\00:14:51.12
But those ID cards
are going to be terrible
00:14:51.15\00:14:55.06
to indicate the
identification of people
00:14:55.09\00:14:57.73
who were supposed to be killed.
00:14:57.76\00:14:59.33
So this is kind of
a manmade separation,
00:14:59.36\00:15:02.13
if you will...
00:15:02.16\00:15:03.50
Very correct.
00:15:03.57\00:15:04.90
As they share the culture,
they often look alike...
00:15:04.93\00:15:06.84
Intermarried and.
00:15:06.87\00:15:08.20
And, now so, in your church,
00:15:08.24\00:15:11.57
then where there
both Tutsis and Hutus?
00:15:11.61\00:15:15.08
Very well, there
was no difference.
00:15:15.11\00:15:17.91
We're just
friends, we're neighbors,
00:15:17.95\00:15:20.32
we socially integrated
00:15:20.35\00:15:23.82
until those
politicians tried to highlight
00:15:23.89\00:15:28.02
the differences and inciting
one group to kill the other,
00:15:28.06\00:15:31.69
telling them that
these are your enemies,
00:15:31.73\00:15:33.80
you kill them.
00:15:33.83\00:15:35.36
Okay, so in 1994,
00:15:35.40\00:15:37.07
what was, over a
million people were slaughtered?
00:15:37.10\00:15:40.04
More than a
million people actually.
00:15:40.07\00:15:42.04
Because even today, you know,
00:15:42.07\00:15:43.91
those are people who identified
00:15:43.94\00:15:46.44
but there are
families which were totally,
00:15:46.47\00:15:50.05
the whole family was
killed, and no one to report,
00:15:50.08\00:15:52.65
no one to tell the story.
00:15:52.68\00:15:54.45
And so, only the families,
00:15:54.48\00:15:56.08
the people who were
identified actually,
00:15:56.12\00:15:58.35
like a million,
two hundred thousand
00:15:58.39\00:16:01.82
but even today there are
still discovering hundreds,
00:16:01.86\00:16:05.19
I mean, tens of
thousands in pits, in holes
00:16:05.23\00:16:11.37
and some were
thrown into big rivers
00:16:11.40\00:16:13.67
and taken away and so, no trace,
00:16:13.74\00:16:16.71
and no one will report
and say my family was killed
00:16:16.74\00:16:19.24
or my children
00:16:19.27\00:16:20.88
and, you know,
00:16:20.91\00:16:22.24
it's such a terrible thing
that happened in that country.
00:16:22.28\00:16:25.81
So, Phodidas, tell us
where you were when this began
00:16:25.85\00:16:28.92
and just share your story?
00:16:28.95\00:16:30.92
Thank you so much.
00:16:30.99\00:16:32.32
Well, as I said, I
wasn't actually in a place
00:16:32.35\00:16:35.16
where I was born.
00:16:35.19\00:16:37.26
I happen to be in Kigali
when the genocide started.
00:16:37.33\00:16:41.73
Kigali is the
capital city of Rwanda,
00:16:41.76\00:16:45.33
and I was the church elder
in one of the biggest churches
00:16:45.37\00:16:48.77
in Rwanda in Kigali
00:16:48.80\00:16:50.81
which is called
Remera SDA Church.
00:16:50.84\00:16:53.68
And as an elder,
00:16:53.71\00:16:55.81
I enjoyed the
fellowship of church members
00:16:55.84\00:16:58.55
and God prepared me somehow.
00:16:58.58\00:17:01.35
With the Bible I had read,
00:17:01.38\00:17:03.49
I actually, you know,
00:17:03.52\00:17:06.76
somehow grew up that way
and I started helping people.
00:17:06.79\00:17:10.56
I was, you know,
helping young people,
00:17:10.63\00:17:14.20
teaching, and towards 1994,
00:17:14.23\00:17:17.67
there was a
serious, you know, upheaval.
00:17:17.70\00:17:22.87
Politicians were
saying you kill Tutsis
00:17:22.90\00:17:25.34
and people were
scared everywhere.
00:17:25.37\00:17:27.58
And we had just to
pray, spend the whole day
00:17:27.61\00:17:30.95
fasting and praying.
00:17:30.98\00:17:32.31
Now as an elder, I was
invited by young people,
00:17:32.35\00:17:35.08
I remember Tuesday,
00:17:35.12\00:17:36.45
I actually spend
the whole day praying
00:17:36.48\00:17:37.92
with a group of young
people who were scared
00:17:37.95\00:17:40.39
and we all committed ourselves
into God's hands and say,
00:17:40.46\00:17:44.23
even if we die,
00:17:44.26\00:17:46.23
let's glorify God
00:17:46.26\00:17:48.23
and let's put
our lives into God.
00:17:48.26\00:17:49.90
You wore your ID card,
while you were a Tutsi?
00:17:49.93\00:17:52.70
I had an ID card
and on Wednesday,
00:17:52.73\00:17:55.90
I did the same,
00:17:55.94\00:17:57.31
there was a group
of business people
00:17:57.34\00:17:58.67
who had gathered
and they invited me
00:17:58.71\00:18:01.98
to encourage them and to
pray and we fasted the whole day
00:18:02.01\00:18:05.91
without actually
knowing that, that very evening,
00:18:05.95\00:18:09.25
something terrible
is going to happen.
00:18:09.28\00:18:11.29
Then the
president of the country
00:18:11.32\00:18:13.56
who was a Hutu was
killed and when he died,
00:18:13.59\00:18:17.86
we don't,
00:18:17.89\00:18:19.23
I personally don't
know what happened.
00:18:19.26\00:18:22.53
Some say it is the
Hutus who killed him
00:18:22.56\00:18:25.40
so that because he was trying
to share power with the Tutsis.
00:18:25.43\00:18:29.64
Some will say
no, the Tutsi army,
00:18:29.67\00:18:32.44
the people were
coming from outside
00:18:32.47\00:18:34.08
who killed him and
that is not my business.
00:18:34.11\00:18:37.35
But the reality is he was killed
00:18:37.38\00:18:40.75
and the Hutus as a result,
00:18:40.82\00:18:43.92
they decided to kill all Tutsis,
00:18:43.99\00:18:45.65
they said we will
kill Tutsis and have,
00:18:45.69\00:18:49.59
because we don't
want them to live.
00:18:49.62\00:18:52.76
Now that evening,
actually what happened?
00:18:52.79\00:18:56.20
After my prayer,
I went back home.
00:18:56.23\00:18:59.30
I was scared.
00:18:59.33\00:19:00.87
We decided to
pray, my friends and I,
00:19:00.94\00:19:02.77
we were staying
in a small house.
00:19:02.80\00:19:05.14
It housed three boys.
00:19:05.17\00:19:07.48
We were actually three
00:19:07.51\00:19:10.68
and the house helper
00:19:10.75\00:19:12.21
and so we prayed the whole night
00:19:12.25\00:19:13.72
and we tried to prove to people
00:19:13.75\00:19:15.32
that we were also sympathizing
but that was not going to work.
00:19:15.35\00:19:20.69
And you were 24 years
old, I wanted to establish.
00:19:20.76\00:19:22.52
Yes, I was 24 years old,
00:19:22.56\00:19:24.26
and we prayed
and prayed and prayed
00:19:24.33\00:19:27.43
and, now one, how it
happened one Sabbath.
00:19:27.50\00:19:31.73
Now it was Wednesday.
00:19:31.77\00:19:33.27
Now Saturday,
00:19:33.34\00:19:35.00
I was supposed to go to church.
00:19:35.04\00:19:36.94
I used to teach the doctrines
00:19:37.01\00:19:39.94
of the Seventh-day Adventist
Church every Sabbath morning
00:19:39.97\00:19:42.38
as it happens in Africa.
00:19:42.41\00:19:44.58
At this time, it was
not going to be possible.
00:19:44.61\00:19:46.38
So I said, I think
I've got to invite neighbors
00:19:46.41\00:19:50.39
so that I can encourage
them and pray for them.
00:19:50.42\00:19:53.15
Now what I did, I
send my house helper
00:19:53.19\00:19:55.59
to invite people
00:19:55.62\00:19:57.66
and they came and
I started teaching.
00:19:57.69\00:20:00.63
Now when you said they came,
00:20:00.70\00:20:02.23
were they both Tutsis and Hutus?
00:20:02.26\00:20:04.07
Both Tutsis and Hutus. Okay.
00:20:04.10\00:20:06.74
And when they came,
00:20:06.77\00:20:08.10
even the young
people were staying with me,
00:20:08.14\00:20:11.01
two of them were
Hutus and one was a Tutsi.
00:20:11.04\00:20:14.31
And so I was
reading, I remember,
00:20:14.34\00:20:16.08
I decided to read the
book, The Great Controversy,
00:20:16.11\00:20:19.48
the Chapter entitled
"The Time of Trouble."
00:20:19.51\00:20:23.05
And I was trying to
tell them that look,
00:20:23.08\00:20:25.09
even in such times of trouble,
00:20:25.12\00:20:27.59
God still cares for His people
00:20:27.66\00:20:30.03
just like Ellen
G. White tells us.
00:20:30.06\00:20:32.49
And right as I
was trying to explain
00:20:32.53\00:20:36.30
and read and commanding,
00:20:36.33\00:20:38.80
my house had a window.
00:20:38.83\00:20:41.54
Now the door
had actually a glass
00:20:41.57\00:20:44.97
and so I could
see through the glass.
00:20:45.01\00:20:47.11
And I saw a group of killers,
armed with their machetes,
00:20:47.18\00:20:51.78
and the knives, and swords,
00:20:51.81\00:20:53.82
and guns, and they
forced us to open the door,
00:20:53.85\00:20:56.82
immediately they
came in and they said,
00:20:56.89\00:20:59.02
"All your ID's up."
00:20:59.05\00:21:01.02
Now everybody was
supposed to show their ID.
00:21:01.06\00:21:03.36
If you are Tutsi,
they will kill you.
00:21:03.43\00:21:05.33
If you are Hutu,
then you're safe.
00:21:05.36\00:21:07.43
And so everybody who was Hutu
00:21:07.50\00:21:09.63
and, of course,
there were some Tutsis
00:21:09.66\00:21:11.10
who had hidden their IDs.
00:21:11.13\00:21:13.44
Others had torn them
and they tried to lie.
00:21:13.47\00:21:17.14
But I had told God,
I was not going to lie.
00:21:17.21\00:21:21.98
I was, remember I
had read my Bible.
00:21:22.01\00:21:24.81
And I said, you know,
Revelation Chapter 22.
00:21:24.85\00:21:28.62
It talks about those
who will survive, right?
00:21:28.65\00:21:32.45
The last tribulation
are those who have not lied,
00:21:32.49\00:21:37.16
who have said no lie.
00:21:37.23\00:21:38.76
The Book of Psalms 15, it
talks about the same thing.
00:21:38.79\00:21:42.43
So I said, there is
no, I'm not going to lie.
00:21:42.46\00:21:45.07
I showed my ID and
when they saw the ID,
00:21:45.10\00:21:48.84
the chief militia, the killer,
he said, "Get ready to kill."
00:21:48.87\00:21:52.24
And everybody
came in surrounded me
00:21:52.27\00:21:54.98
with their knifes.
00:21:55.01\00:21:56.68
And now, I took my Bible,
00:21:56.75\00:22:00.22
lifted it up, and
pointed it to the killer,
00:22:00.25\00:22:02.75
I said, "In that
ID it is written Tutsi
00:22:02.78\00:22:06.86
but in my heart, I'm
a citizen of heaven."
00:22:06.89\00:22:10.93
And he was disturbed.
00:22:10.96\00:22:13.16
He took the
Bible, he threw it down.
00:22:13.19\00:22:15.53
He trampled on
it and I felt but,
00:22:15.56\00:22:19.50
because as a young person,
00:22:19.53\00:22:20.87
I thought God was
going to protect my life.
00:22:20.94\00:22:23.64
He was going to
fight for me and here,
00:22:23.71\00:22:26.88
His own Bible is
being trampled on.
00:22:26.91\00:22:29.94
I said, no God,
00:22:29.98\00:22:31.45
are you doing
something about the situation.
00:22:31.48\00:22:34.35
And now, interestingly,
00:22:34.38\00:22:37.39
God had done something already.
00:22:37.42\00:22:39.92
He doesn't fight the
way we want Him to fight.
00:22:39.95\00:22:43.12
He's always in control
even when you think you...
00:22:43.16\00:22:47.10
so strong, he is
trampling the Bible,
00:22:47.13\00:22:49.43
he has his knife on
me, but he cannot kill me.
00:22:49.46\00:22:53.34
He's just looking at me.
00:22:53.37\00:22:54.74
And everybody has come
in their knives up there
00:22:54.77\00:22:57.87
and I kept praying, said, Lord,
00:22:57.91\00:22:59.84
are You doing
nothing about this situation?
00:22:59.87\00:23:02.54
And I'm right just sitting
and no one dares to stab me.
00:23:02.58\00:23:07.88
They kept shouting.
00:23:07.92\00:23:09.25
And then he
said, all of the sudden
00:23:09.28\00:23:10.62
after a few minutes,
00:23:10.69\00:23:12.02
he said, "Where is your room?
00:23:12.05\00:23:13.39
Take us to your bedroom."
00:23:13.42\00:23:14.76
And they took me to the bedroom.
00:23:14.79\00:23:16.12
Obviously, they wanted to
loot, take what belonged to me.
00:23:16.16\00:23:19.73
And I was
praying inside the room.
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.30
Now actually, I know I
don't have enough time.
00:23:22.33\00:23:25.90
Maybe somebody may be
interested in the whole story.
00:23:25.93\00:23:28.70
He can read, there is a book
00:23:28.74\00:23:30.41
that is coming out
with Pacific Press,
00:23:30.44\00:23:33.24
Preaching from the Grave.
00:23:33.27\00:23:34.91
But I want to assure
everyone that God is amazing.
00:23:34.94\00:23:40.42
Amen.
00:23:40.45\00:23:41.78
Sometimes we
undermine the power of prayer,
00:23:41.82\00:23:44.22
but we've got to trust in Him.
00:23:44.29\00:23:46.99
And there is a God
who answers prayer.
00:23:47.06\00:23:50.03
So even in the room,
00:23:50.06\00:23:51.53
I kept praying and
they took everything I had
00:23:51.56\00:23:53.93
and they brought me back.
00:23:54.00\00:23:55.33
Now, these are guys
who have killed the people.
00:23:55.36\00:23:58.37
They have slaughtered hundreds.
These machetes are hot.
00:23:58.40\00:24:01.27
They have been moving
around, they are full of blood,
00:24:01.30\00:24:03.84
they, I am just the next
to be killed and they kept.
00:24:03.91\00:24:07.88
They brought me out
and I was just right there
00:24:07.91\00:24:11.08
and then he kept shouting,
00:24:11.11\00:24:12.51
their knives are
branded and then he says no,
00:24:12.55\00:24:14.95
we're not going to kill you,
00:24:14.98\00:24:16.32
we will call the
policeman to come and kill you.
00:24:16.35\00:24:20.29
As if I was stronger than them.
00:24:20.36\00:24:22.59
And they said give us your
keys and they locked us inside,
00:24:22.62\00:24:25.79
they left.
00:24:25.83\00:24:27.40
Then, of course,
in a few minutes time,
00:24:27.43\00:24:30.67
they gave the keys to
somebody and he came and opened
00:24:30.70\00:24:34.27
and I thought when
they send the keys back,
00:24:34.30\00:24:36.91
I thought I'm safe
00:24:36.94\00:24:39.77
and I was trying to go out
00:24:39.81\00:24:42.31
to see if there
was another way out
00:24:42.34\00:24:44.15
and then I saw the
chief killer coming back.
00:24:44.18\00:24:48.08
Now I was going
to jump the fence.
00:24:48.12\00:24:51.02
You see there is a
fence surrounding my house,
00:24:51.05\00:24:53.49
the compound,
but there was no way.
00:24:53.56\00:24:56.52
I tried to jump just to find out
00:24:56.56\00:24:59.19
that the house had been
surrounded by the killers.
00:24:59.23\00:25:02.46
And so they are
saying, "You lie down,
00:25:02.50\00:25:05.03
we're gonna kill
you, we're gonna cut."
00:25:05.07\00:25:06.84
And I lied down waiting
for the chief killer to come
00:25:06.87\00:25:10.81
and when he
came, he took his sword
00:25:10.84\00:25:12.51
and he lofted on my throat.
00:25:12.54\00:25:14.58
He said, I'm
gonna cut your throat
00:25:14.61\00:25:18.08
and right as the
blade touched my throat,
00:25:18.11\00:25:22.25
I lifted up the Bible
again and I pointed I said,
00:25:22.28\00:25:25.02
"Don't kill, don't
shed innocent blood."
00:25:25.05\00:25:29.39
The man was troubled.
00:25:29.42\00:25:31.26
He couldn't, he said,
00:25:31.29\00:25:32.63
"Hey, are you
bragging of praying?"
00:25:32.66\00:25:34.10
I said, "No."
00:25:34.13\00:25:35.60
But he kept shouting
00:25:35.63\00:25:36.97
and everybody's
just looking at me.
00:25:37.00\00:25:38.33
They don't, they
have come back to kill me.
00:25:38.37\00:25:40.04
But no one kills me again
00:25:40.07\00:25:42.34
and then he finally
after few minutes shouting
00:25:42.37\00:25:45.17
and looking at me saying why?
00:25:45.21\00:25:47.18
And he said,
"Why are you running?
00:25:47.21\00:25:48.54
You go back to your house."
00:25:48.58\00:25:49.91
I said, "I will not run again."
00:25:49.94\00:25:52.45
I went to my house.
00:25:52.48\00:25:53.82
Interestingly,
00:25:53.85\00:25:55.25
the guy was after what he
was coming back to my house,
00:25:55.28\00:25:58.59
I had locked myself inside
00:25:58.62\00:26:00.49
and he was coming
back and back and back
00:26:00.56\00:26:02.79
and saying, Murukude.
00:26:02.82\00:26:04.33
Now, Murukude
means the Holy One.
00:26:04.36\00:26:06.56
He thought I was
a special person,
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.53
say the Holy One.
00:26:08.56\00:26:10.47
The Holy One, are you inside?
00:26:10.50\00:26:11.83
I said yes.
00:26:11.87\00:26:13.20
Keep praying and I kept praying.
00:26:13.23\00:26:15.94
This is what the
chief killer said?
00:26:15.97\00:26:17.97
The chief killer, he
moved by to kill others,
00:26:18.01\00:26:20.88
he said,
"Murukude, are you inside?"
00:26:20.91\00:26:22.71
I said, "Yes."
00:26:22.74\00:26:24.08
He said, "Keep
praying." I kept praying.
00:26:24.15\00:26:27.12
And which means God
had done something to him.
00:26:27.15\00:26:32.02
But that was just the beginning
00:26:32.05\00:26:33.69
because actually the
real story starts right there.
00:26:33.76\00:26:38.39
It was going to be terrible.
00:26:38.43\00:26:40.23
But God is so great.
00:26:40.30\00:26:41.63
And God was going to show me
00:26:41.66\00:26:43.30
that He is a God
who answers prayers.
00:26:43.37\00:26:45.53
Amen.
00:26:45.57\00:26:46.94
Because in a short
while, one of my friends,
00:26:46.97\00:26:49.27
my church members,
00:26:49.30\00:26:50.71
as I say that
was a church elder.
00:26:50.74\00:26:53.21
He came to me and he
said, "Why don't we run?
00:26:53.24\00:26:55.91
Let's try to go
to another province."
00:26:55.94\00:26:58.28
And I told him, I
said, his name was Vincent,
00:26:58.31\00:27:00.55
I said, "Vincent, how can I go?
00:27:00.62\00:27:03.69
I have this Tutsi ID."
00:27:03.72\00:27:06.32
And he said,
"Why do you have it?
00:27:06.35\00:27:07.69
Why don't you tear
it and throw it away?"
00:27:07.72\00:27:10.93
I said, "I'm
not going to tear it
00:27:10.96\00:27:13.60
because if I do,
00:27:13.63\00:27:14.96
I will be tempted to lie
and I don't want to lie."
00:27:15.00\00:27:18.33
And I said, "My
life is in God's hands.
00:27:21.97\00:27:25.41
If He wants to protect my life,
He will certainly do that."
00:27:25.44\00:27:29.08
And he says, "If
you have that faith,
00:27:29.11\00:27:30.88
let's go.
00:27:30.95\00:27:32.28
Keep your ID and let's go."
00:27:32.31\00:27:33.95
And so, we prayed
and then we had to move.
00:27:34.02\00:27:36.99
Now Vincent was somehow smart.
00:27:37.02\00:27:39.62
He realized that I
was probably stupid.
00:27:39.65\00:27:42.76
And so he got my ID
00:27:42.79\00:27:45.16
when we reached the highway
and we saw so many killings.
00:27:45.19\00:27:49.73
So many dead people.
00:27:49.76\00:27:52.10
And he came back, he was scared.
00:27:52.13\00:27:53.87
He said, "Where is your ID?"
00:27:53.94\00:27:55.27
He got it and he put my ID
just back to back to his ID.
00:27:55.30\00:28:01.48
And so, when we
reach the first roadblock
00:28:01.51\00:28:04.18
where people are
being slaughtered,
00:28:04.25\00:28:07.98
they asked him his ID,
00:28:08.02\00:28:09.35
he showed and then he continued
00:28:09.38\00:28:11.29
and when I arrived,
they said, "Where's your ID?
00:28:11.32\00:28:13.49
I didn't know, I
said, "That man has it."
00:28:13.56\00:28:17.53
He came back to show
and he showed the same ID,
00:28:17.56\00:28:20.80
the one he had
showed before, his ID
00:28:20.83\00:28:23.20
and they said move forward.
00:28:23.23\00:28:25.13
But that was actually
going to be just for a while.
00:28:25.17\00:28:29.50
He had tried to protect my life.
00:28:29.54\00:28:31.51
But God was
going to show me that
00:28:31.54\00:28:33.31
even when they see the ID,
00:28:33.38\00:28:36.21
I can still
protect your life. Amen.
00:28:36.24\00:28:38.75
Anyway, one of us was a Tutsi
00:28:38.78\00:28:41.05
and he was held
there to be killed
00:28:41.08\00:28:44.32
and so Vincent who was a Hutu,
00:28:44.35\00:28:47.16
he was such a
kind person, he said,
00:28:47.19\00:28:49.19
"I'm not going to
leave him, you guys, you go."
00:28:49.22\00:28:51.56
Now I was going to
go without Vincent,
00:28:51.59\00:28:53.70
but with Jesus.
00:28:53.73\00:28:55.06
Amen.
00:28:55.10\00:28:56.43
And so I decided,
00:28:56.46\00:28:57.80
because I was not
going to keep standing there
00:28:57.83\00:29:00.47
out of fear that they
were going to identify me,
00:29:00.54\00:29:03.61
come back to me and kill me.
00:29:03.64\00:29:05.27
And continuing
was another issue.
00:29:05.31\00:29:07.21
But I decided to
pray and moved forward.
00:29:07.28\00:29:10.45
Now ahead of me,
there were roadblocks,
00:29:10.48\00:29:12.45
so I designed the prayer.
00:29:12.48\00:29:14.02
I said, I said the prayer
00:29:14.05\00:29:16.05
every time I came
across the roadblock,
00:29:16.08\00:29:17.75
I said, in the name
of Jesus close their eyes
00:29:17.79\00:29:23.06
and God closed their eyes.
00:29:23.09\00:29:25.13
Amen, hallelujah.
00:29:25.16\00:29:26.59
So the first roadblock, I
said, "In the name of Jesus,
00:29:26.63\00:29:28.93
close his eyes."
00:29:28.96\00:29:30.47
And the guys were
just busy checking IDs with
00:29:30.50\00:29:33.94
and killing and I moved forward
00:29:33.97\00:29:35.94
and then I came
across another guy saying,
00:29:35.97\00:29:37.44
"In the name of
Jesus close his eyes."
00:29:37.51\00:29:39.54
And I moved forward three times,
00:29:39.57\00:29:42.18
closed their eyes
but the fourth time,
00:29:42.21\00:29:44.61
it looks like God said,
00:29:44.65\00:29:46.25
"No, until when are
you gonna say this prayer,
00:29:46.28\00:29:49.35
I've got to prove to you that
00:29:49.38\00:29:51.19
even when their
eyes are not closed,
00:29:51.22\00:29:54.89
I can still protect your life."
00:29:54.92\00:29:56.86
So I said in the name of Jesus,
when this boy asked for ID,
00:29:56.93\00:30:00.90
I said, "In the name
of Jesus close his eyes."
00:30:00.93\00:30:03.87
And his eyes were not closed.
00:30:03.90\00:30:07.04
He read, he
said, "Are you Tutsi?"
00:30:07.07\00:30:10.41
Now, instead of
killing me, he was astonished.
00:30:10.44\00:30:13.88
He said, "Are you Tutsi?"
00:30:13.91\00:30:15.28
He was amazed that I
could still have my ID
00:30:15.31\00:30:18.88
and so I said, "Yes."
00:30:18.91\00:30:21.02
He said, "Disappear from here."
00:30:21.05\00:30:24.85
Now he became kind
00:30:24.89\00:30:27.29
and I know we don't have time,
00:30:27.36\00:30:30.36
I probably have to
rush into this story.
00:30:30.43\00:30:32.76
But it was a
miracle because in fact,
00:30:32.79\00:30:36.13
he didn't allow me to continue.
00:30:36.16\00:30:37.50
He called me back,
00:30:37.57\00:30:39.70
he said, "I'm going to look for,
00:30:39.73\00:30:41.87
give you a ride."
00:30:41.90\00:30:43.24
And there are
people who are passing by
00:30:43.27\00:30:45.37
and they have cars
00:30:45.41\00:30:46.78
and they're going to drive
you to where you're going."
00:30:46.81\00:30:48.84
But I didn't want to come back,
00:30:48.88\00:30:50.65
because that's the
place were killers,
00:30:50.68\00:30:52.15
they are killing people.
00:30:52.18\00:30:53.55
And he said you wait there.
00:30:53.62\00:30:55.55
And guess what?
00:30:55.58\00:30:56.99
There was a truck full
of militiamen, killers.
00:30:57.02\00:31:01.09
And so this is the truck
where he wants me to get a ride
00:31:01.12\00:31:03.96
and say you get a ride.
00:31:04.03\00:31:05.49
Oh, my goodness.
00:31:05.53\00:31:06.90
And I had to go into
that truck full of militiamen
00:31:06.93\00:31:11.13
who were full of
blood, had killed so many
00:31:11.17\00:31:13.97
moving from house to house.
00:31:14.04\00:31:15.40
Did they know you were a Tutsi?
00:31:15.44\00:31:17.01
They obviously
sensed, they thought I was.
00:31:17.04\00:31:20.28
Okay.
00:31:20.31\00:31:21.64
But no one checked my ID.
00:31:21.68\00:31:23.65
But anyway, God
made it possible for me
00:31:23.68\00:31:26.65
to cross the
number of roadblocks.
00:31:26.72\00:31:29.25
But I reached a point
when I reached around about
00:31:29.28\00:31:33.59
which was one of the
most terrible places.
00:31:33.66\00:31:38.16
And for the sake of time,
00:31:38.19\00:31:40.40
I can probably
share with you that story
00:31:40.43\00:31:42.80
in another one, maybe
just that round about,
00:31:42.83\00:31:47.97
Vincent in fact
caught us up with us,
00:31:48.00\00:31:51.64
with the other friend.
00:31:51.67\00:31:53.14
He managed to save him
00:31:53.17\00:31:57.05
and when he came,
00:31:57.08\00:31:59.25
we did know
whether to move forward
00:31:59.28\00:32:01.65
or to go back
00:32:01.68\00:32:03.02
and it was a terrible situation.
00:32:03.05\00:32:05.12
And we decided to
pray and move forward.
00:32:05.15\00:32:07.26
And I was going to be
saying the same prayer,
00:32:07.29\00:32:10.63
but that was not going to work.
00:32:10.66\00:32:12.73
So when we
reached the roadblock,
00:32:12.76\00:32:14.83
the roundabout in Kigali center,
00:32:14.86\00:32:17.37
I said the
prayer, I said, "Lord,
00:32:17.40\00:32:20.24
close their
eyes in Jesus' name."
00:32:20.27\00:32:22.87
And guess what?
00:32:22.90\00:32:24.24
Their eyes could not be closed,
the very first militiaman,
00:32:24.31\00:32:27.31
God, not only God
did not close their eyes
00:32:27.38\00:32:30.35
but also he did not,
00:32:30.38\00:32:33.62
they didn't even
become kind to me
00:32:33.65\00:32:35.65
because the
person who got my ID,
00:32:35.68\00:32:37.19
he shouted, he
said, "We found a Tutsi,
00:32:37.22\00:32:39.15
we found a Tutsi."
00:32:39.19\00:32:40.76
And everybody
came running to me.
00:32:40.79\00:32:42.36
They said, "They
were going to kill me."
00:32:42.39\00:32:44.39
And they said, "You
see that Tutsi over there,
00:32:44.43\00:32:49.13
that was a Tutsi freshly killed.
00:32:49.16\00:32:52.07
You go and lie beside him
00:32:52.10\00:32:54.54
and we are coming to kill you."
00:32:54.57\00:32:56.40
And so I went
00:32:56.44\00:32:57.77
and I stood
beside the dead person
00:32:57.81\00:33:01.34
and I took time to pray.
00:33:01.38\00:33:03.55
Now somehow I was
forgotten for a few minutes
00:33:03.58\00:33:07.12
because they were
busy killing others,
00:33:07.15\00:33:08.95
and stopping and checking IDs.
00:33:08.98\00:33:11.49
And I prayed and
prayed, I said, "Lord,
00:33:11.52\00:33:14.69
show me that You are
the God I've talked about.
00:33:14.72\00:33:18.46
I've taught young
people, I've told adults,
00:33:18.49\00:33:23.20
I've read your word,
00:33:23.23\00:33:24.73
Are you still the
same or You have changed?
00:33:24.77\00:33:26.84
Show me You are a
God who doesn't change.
00:33:26.87\00:33:28.94
And guess what?
00:33:28.97\00:33:30.31
Somehow, all of the sudden,
00:33:30.34\00:33:31.91
one of the killers
realized that I was still there.
00:33:31.94\00:33:34.88
And then he turned and he said,"
00:33:34.91\00:33:36.75
Hey, we haven't
killed that boy yet."
00:33:36.78\00:33:40.05
And then he came running,
00:33:40.12\00:33:41.45
he said, "Let me
go and finish him,"
00:33:41.48\00:33:42.82
and he came running to me.
00:33:42.85\00:33:44.42
And as soon as I saw him coming,
00:33:44.45\00:33:46.12
I closed my eyes and said
Lord, in Jesus' name stop him.
00:33:46.15\00:33:51.09
Immediately, as soon
as I see to that prayer,
00:33:51.13\00:33:55.56
I opened my eyes
just to see the guy
00:33:55.60\00:33:58.63
taking the opposite direction
00:33:58.67\00:34:01.60
and then I continued praying,
00:34:01.64\00:34:04.14
somehow was
forgotten again a second time.
00:34:04.21\00:34:07.71
I said the same
prayer, saying, "Lord."
00:34:07.74\00:34:09.61
He said, "You know what?
00:34:09.64\00:34:10.98
We haven't killed that
boy yet. He's still there."
00:34:11.01\00:34:12.91
I said, "In the
name of Jesus stop him,"
00:34:12.95\00:34:15.25
as I saw him coming running.
00:34:15.28\00:34:17.19
And immediately,
00:34:17.22\00:34:18.99
he was taking the
opposite direction
00:34:19.02\00:34:21.09
three times.
00:34:21.12\00:34:22.46
Wow.
00:34:22.49\00:34:23.83
Now the fourth
time was different.
00:34:23.86\00:34:26.80
I just have got to redeem time.
00:34:26.83\00:34:29.23
But the fourth time the guy came
00:34:29.26\00:34:32.37
and as he came to kill me.
00:34:32.40\00:34:34.54
I was praying, I said,
"Stop him in Jesus' name."
00:34:34.57\00:34:37.31
And as I kept
praying now I opened my eyes.
00:34:37.34\00:34:40.38
The last time I opened my eyes,
00:34:40.41\00:34:41.74
the guy was
right in front of me.
00:34:41.78\00:34:45.28
But instead of stabbing me,
00:34:45.31\00:34:47.78
just as they were
doing for everyone else,
00:34:47.82\00:34:50.29
he was just
looking into my face.
00:34:50.32\00:34:53.12
And then as I looked
into his eyes he said,
00:34:53.15\00:34:55.89
"By the way,
00:34:55.92\00:34:57.26
what kind of person are you?"
00:34:57.33\00:35:00.50
I don't know what
he had seen in me.
00:35:00.53\00:35:03.30
But maybe he saw
a different face.
00:35:03.37\00:35:08.00
God had just
worked out a miracle
00:35:08.04\00:35:10.04
and I see the man of God.
00:35:10.11\00:35:12.31
I don't know how
that answer came to me
00:35:12.34\00:35:14.18
because in such a moment
you don't even reason, right?
00:35:14.21\00:35:17.55
I said...
00:35:17.58\00:35:18.91
Yeah, and you had not
been educated as a pastor
00:35:18.95\00:35:21.22
and got your PhD?
00:35:21.25\00:35:22.58
No, I was just, no...
00:35:22.62\00:35:23.99
You were, okay. Just, yeah.
00:35:24.02\00:35:26.29
Then I said, "I'm a man of God."
00:35:26.32\00:35:27.79
And then he said,
"Are you a man of God?"
00:35:27.82\00:35:29.96
But whatever answer I gave him
00:35:30.03\00:35:31.83
He probably heard
something different.
00:35:31.86\00:35:34.03
Are you a man of God?
00:35:34.10\00:35:35.63
I said, "Yes."
00:35:35.66\00:35:37.00
But they were
killing even men of God,
00:35:37.07\00:35:38.67
I mean, everyone, even
pastors were being killed,
00:35:38.70\00:35:41.20
the priest and you know every,
00:35:41.24\00:35:44.21
people with Bibles and
all of them were being killed
00:35:44.24\00:35:47.48
and he said, "Let me
go and negotiate your ID
00:35:47.51\00:35:49.84
so that you can go."
00:35:49.88\00:35:51.21
Anyway, let me just,
00:35:51.25\00:35:53.55
anyway, the story is quite long.
00:35:53.62\00:35:54.95
I want to hear how
you ended up in a grave?
00:35:54.98\00:35:56.79
The story intro yeah, yeah.
00:35:56.82\00:35:58.39
Well, finally I
was saved by miracle.
00:35:58.42\00:36:02.79
From that very
place to the point
00:36:02.82\00:36:05.96
that militiamen
wanted to see what happened.
00:36:05.99\00:36:09.23
They didn't understand
00:36:09.26\00:36:10.60
and then my
friend had disappeared,
00:36:10.67\00:36:12.67
my friends have disappeared.
00:36:12.70\00:36:14.37
So I went down the road
00:36:14.40\00:36:15.90
and I found them there
and they knew I was dead.
00:36:15.94\00:36:18.64
No one could
dare come back to see
00:36:18.67\00:36:20.38
what was happening because
00:36:20.41\00:36:21.74
you are attracting the
attention of the killers.
00:36:21.78\00:36:24.41
You are
sympathizing with the Tutsis.
00:36:24.45\00:36:26.38
They can kill you.
00:36:26.41\00:36:27.75
So when they
saw me, he was like,
00:36:27.78\00:36:30.19
"What, are you still alive?"
00:36:30.22\00:36:31.72
I said, "Yes."
00:36:31.75\00:36:33.09
And I was holding my ID
and Vincent saw me again
00:36:33.12\00:36:35.56
with my ID and said,
00:36:35.59\00:36:36.93
"You still have that
ID, why don't you tear it?"
00:36:36.96\00:36:39.43
I said, "Vincent, if I'm alive,
00:36:39.46\00:36:41.83
it is not because I tore my ID,
00:36:41.86\00:36:43.97
it is because God
protected my life.
00:36:44.00\00:36:46.43
And so I don't have to lie.
00:36:46.47\00:36:48.54
God willing, I will be alive.
00:36:48.57\00:36:51.37
And if He wants me to
die, I will die faithfully."
00:36:51.41\00:36:54.21
And so he says, "If
you have that faith,
00:36:54.28\00:36:56.44
let's go."
00:36:56.48\00:36:58.01
And we prayed
again, and we moved on.
00:36:58.05\00:37:00.32
Now, it was a terrible journey,
00:37:00.35\00:37:01.82
because so many people
were being killed right there.
00:37:01.85\00:37:05.02
So many, I've got to...
00:37:05.05\00:37:07.66
It's interesting, I can't just,
00:37:07.69\00:37:10.03
maybe I should go to,
00:37:10.06\00:37:11.53
anyway, that story is
when I reached the point,
00:37:11.56\00:37:14.70
there was the roadblock,
people were being killed.
00:37:14.73\00:37:17.07
There was a guy half naked.
00:37:17.10\00:37:19.57
He was like,
00:37:19.60\00:37:21.60
you know, with a hammer,
00:37:21.64\00:37:23.41
part of the hammer was max sharp
00:37:23.44\00:37:27.21
and the road had been blocked.
00:37:27.28\00:37:29.34
And they were stopping
everyone directing to the killer
00:37:29.38\00:37:33.92
sitting and I saw so
many dead people around him
00:37:33.95\00:37:37.52
and prisoners had been released
00:37:37.59\00:37:39.72
to load the tracks
00:37:39.75\00:37:42.79
and so, when I saw that.
00:37:42.82\00:37:45.26
Now, one of the militiamen
grabbed me by the collar,
00:37:45.29\00:37:47.93
of the collar of the shirt,
00:37:47.96\00:37:49.33
and he led me
towards the killer.
00:37:49.36\00:37:52.17
And I was like,
three, four meters away
00:37:52.20\00:37:56.54
and there were
three people around,
00:37:56.57\00:37:58.04
three people before me
00:37:58.07\00:37:59.41
when I saw him without mercy.
00:37:59.44\00:38:02.11
I said a prayer, I said,
00:38:02.14\00:38:03.98
"Lord, in the name of Jesus,
00:38:04.05\00:38:06.95
if that man gets angry,
get angry on my behalf."
00:38:07.02\00:38:10.99
This time I changed
the prayer and guess what?
00:38:11.02\00:38:16.56
Right after that prayer,
00:38:16.59\00:38:19.73
I felt another
hand pulling me back.
00:38:19.76\00:38:24.27
And now there's a hand
pulling me towards the killer
00:38:24.30\00:38:27.14
and there is another hand back
00:38:27.17\00:38:28.67
and then I
turned and the guy said,
00:38:28.70\00:38:30.14
"Where are you going?"
00:38:30.21\00:38:31.54
I said, "I'm going to
show the ID to that killer."
00:38:31.57\00:38:34.08
And he said, "Don't go."
00:38:34.11\00:38:35.98
Now the one to the front said,
00:38:36.01\00:38:37.45
"No, Let him go and show the ID"
00:38:37.48\00:38:39.25
in other words.
00:38:39.28\00:38:40.62
Meanwhile others are passing
by and they are being killed.
00:38:40.65\00:38:43.59
And now there is a discussion
between these two boys.
00:38:43.62\00:38:46.12
One is saying you go,
00:38:46.15\00:38:47.49
the other one is
saying you go back
00:38:47.56\00:38:48.89
the other one is you go.
00:38:48.92\00:38:50.26
And finally the one behind says,
00:38:50.29\00:38:52.29
"No, there is a car behind here
00:38:52.33\00:38:54.56
which is gonna give him
a ride to another province.
00:38:54.60\00:38:57.57
Let him go back
00:38:57.60\00:38:58.93
and he will still
come back this way anyway."
00:38:58.97\00:39:01.07
Finally he convinced the killer
00:39:01.10\00:39:03.30
that I was supposed to go back
00:39:03.34\00:39:05.34
and maybe I should just, yeah.
00:39:05.37\00:39:09.54
What I want to do
because this story.
00:39:09.58\00:39:13.72
We're touching the
tip of the iceberg here.
00:39:13.75\00:39:17.12
It is such a fascinating story.
00:39:17.19\00:39:19.75
But your new book
00:39:19.79\00:39:22.66
that is being
released in the summer of 2019,
00:39:22.69\00:39:29.13
"Preaching from the Grave."
00:39:29.16\00:39:32.70
This is available,
00:39:32.73\00:39:35.14
Pacific Press is
publishing this and this book,
00:39:35.17\00:39:37.87
it will be
available in the ABC's?
00:39:37.91\00:39:40.08
Within a few
weeks, probably two more,
00:39:40.11\00:39:42.81
should be out actually.
00:39:42.84\00:39:44.25
Let's say August of 2019. Yeah.
00:39:44.28\00:39:47.12
And eventually
00:39:47.15\00:39:48.48
I'm sure it'll be
available on Amazon as well.
00:39:48.52\00:39:50.39
But tell us where
this title comes from?
00:39:50.42\00:39:54.32
Because you were
forced to dig your own grave,
00:39:54.36\00:39:56.86
were you not?
00:39:56.93\00:39:58.26
Correct, correct.
00:39:58.29\00:39:59.63
Well, I finally
managed to cross the city
00:39:59.66\00:40:03.47
and went to one rural area.
00:40:03.50\00:40:07.74
Now one of my
friends was living not far,
00:40:07.77\00:40:10.91
his home was not as
very far from Kigali.
00:40:10.94\00:40:14.88
So he took me to
his home village.
00:40:14.91\00:40:17.48
But
unfortunately, we didn't know
00:40:17.55\00:40:19.25
killings were going to
start soon there as well.
00:40:19.28\00:40:22.22
And when killings
started, so I try to hide.
00:40:22.25\00:40:26.86
And the father of my friend
00:40:26.89\00:40:29.22
tried to hide me
everywhere he could.
00:40:29.26\00:40:32.39
He did his best.
00:40:32.43\00:40:34.43
And finally he got tired.
00:40:34.46\00:40:36.06
He said, "Son, I could hide you.
00:40:36.10\00:40:38.30
I could dig a hole
and hide you in there.
00:40:38.33\00:40:40.74
But killers, they
are digging people out,
00:40:40.77\00:40:43.74
I could put you
into the ceiling.
00:40:43.81\00:40:46.04
But if I put you there,
00:40:46.07\00:40:47.41
the militiaman they
will just find you."
00:40:47.48\00:40:49.68
And so he said,
"Son, there is no way out."
00:40:49.71\00:40:52.38
And he designed
the way by the way.
00:40:52.41\00:40:54.05
He said, "Well, son,
00:40:54.12\00:40:55.88
I think the best way for
you to go to a public area
00:40:55.92\00:41:01.39
where so many Tutsis had gone
and you will be killed by gun.
00:41:01.42\00:41:07.53
They will shoot at you
00:41:07.60\00:41:08.93
because he was scared to say no,
00:41:08.96\00:41:10.30
these villagers they
will cut you with machetes,
00:41:10.33\00:41:12.47
and I don't want
you to suffer that way.
00:41:12.50\00:41:14.77
You go, that was
the best way for him.
00:41:14.80\00:41:17.44
He said, "You
better go where Tutsis are,
00:41:17.51\00:41:19.31
they gonna shoot at you."
00:41:19.34\00:41:20.68
You can die quickly.
00:41:20.71\00:41:22.04
Anyway, to make the long
story short, I had to go.
00:41:22.08\00:41:25.45
But finally I didn't go.
00:41:25.48\00:41:27.32
There is a whole series of
miracles again, right there.
00:41:27.35\00:41:30.69
And then I came back again.
00:41:30.72\00:41:32.05
And the old man saw me back
00:41:32.09\00:41:33.66
and he said,
"Son, are you back?"
00:41:33.69\00:41:35.99
They we troubled
because coming back was like,
00:41:36.02\00:41:39.19
I'm causing trouble to them.
00:41:39.23\00:41:41.03
Because militiamen,
00:41:41.06\00:41:42.40
if they saw me
going to their home,
00:41:42.43\00:41:43.87
then they would have sensed that
00:41:43.90\00:41:45.30
they are friends to Tutsis.
00:41:45.33\00:41:47.47
They are trying to hide them
00:41:47.54\00:41:48.87
and they were going
to kill them as well.
00:41:48.90\00:41:50.81
So he very late in the night,
00:41:50.84\00:41:55.28
he said, "I know one
bush I can take you to
00:41:55.31\00:41:57.85
and probably you can be saved.
00:41:57.88\00:42:00.52
Your God can protect your life."
00:42:00.55\00:42:02.38
And he took me to that bush
00:42:02.42\00:42:03.79
unfortunately,
that was the only bush
00:42:03.82\00:42:06.12
that militia killers knew.
00:42:06.15\00:42:08.76
And so he took me to a bush
00:42:08.79\00:42:10.83
where actually militiamen
were checking every hour.
00:42:10.86\00:42:15.83
But he prayed
for me and we prayed.
00:42:15.86\00:42:18.67
And I was in a bush.
00:42:18.70\00:42:20.74
Now the morning came.
00:42:20.77\00:42:23.10
And around 11 am,
00:42:23.14\00:42:26.04
I had the friend,
there was a little boy,
00:42:26.07\00:42:28.08
a boy with me
00:42:28.11\00:42:29.71
and in that bush
when I was praying,
00:42:29.74\00:42:33.28
I said, "Lord, put Your
angels around this bush."
00:42:33.31\00:42:36.35
Now it was around 11 am
when I heard dogs barking.
00:42:36.38\00:42:41.02
They were hunting
dogs, trained dogs.
00:42:41.06\00:42:45.09
And the dog found
me when I was hiding,
00:42:45.13\00:42:48.06
and I saw the dog,
00:42:48.10\00:42:49.63
and I tried to scare the dog
00:42:49.66\00:42:51.33
so that he'd ran
away but he didn't.
00:42:51.37\00:42:52.73
He was barking,
seriously barking,
00:42:52.77\00:42:54.94
and then militiamen
came following the dog,
00:42:54.97\00:42:56.81
they said, "Yes, we found one,
00:42:56.84\00:42:58.17
you come out of the bush."
00:42:58.21\00:42:59.54
And I had to go out of the
bush and 'cause no time anyway,
00:42:59.57\00:43:04.25
they took me they
said, "No, you look strong,
00:43:04.28\00:43:06.92
we have been so tired.
00:43:06.95\00:43:09.12
We're not going to
keep killing people up
00:43:09.15\00:43:12.02
and then dig their grave.
00:43:12.05\00:43:14.06
We are going to
let you dig your grave
00:43:14.09\00:43:17.03
and then we kill you later."
00:43:17.06\00:43:19.93
So they gave me a hoe
00:43:20.00\00:43:21.90
and I started digging.
00:43:21.93\00:43:24.73
Now, I had the Bible.
00:43:24.77\00:43:26.84
I think I shared with you
00:43:26.87\00:43:29.04
how my sister
had given me a Bible.
00:43:29.07\00:43:30.64
Yes.
00:43:30.71\00:43:32.04
It wasn't
necessarily the right Bible.
00:43:32.07\00:43:33.41
But from that time on,
I had always underlined,
00:43:33.44\00:43:37.48
highlighted my Bible, right?
00:43:37.55\00:43:39.88
And so when my
Bible was highlighted,
00:43:39.91\00:43:43.39
and I,
00:43:43.42\00:43:45.52
now one of the
killers as they discovered me,
00:43:45.55\00:43:48.99
he actually got my Bible.
00:43:49.02\00:43:51.29
So they were
sitting around the hole
00:43:51.33\00:43:53.60
as the grave as I was digging.
00:43:53.63\00:43:55.83
But I started praying.
00:43:55.86\00:43:57.20
I said, "Lord,
00:43:57.27\00:43:58.93
I preached about
Daniel in the lions' den.
00:43:58.97\00:44:03.27
I preached about Shadrach,
00:44:03.30\00:44:05.51
how you took them out of fire?
00:44:05.54\00:44:08.64
Did I lie to people?
00:44:08.68\00:44:10.55
If I told them the
truth, then show me
00:44:10.58\00:44:12.65
that you are a God
that will never changes.
00:44:12.68\00:44:14.92
Amen.
00:44:14.95\00:44:16.28
And I said, "Are
you still the same God?
00:44:16.32\00:44:18.32
Show me that you are a God.
00:44:18.35\00:44:20.66
You have not changed."
00:44:20.69\00:44:22.69
But I was praying
and I was digging.
00:44:22.72\00:44:25.26
And the grave
was about to finish.
00:44:25.29\00:44:26.73
And at the time I
stopped and say, Lord,
00:44:26.80\00:44:28.53
what are You doing about this?
00:44:28.56\00:44:30.07
And I started
giving suggestions to God.
00:44:30.10\00:44:32.83
And I told God, I said, "Lord,
00:44:32.87\00:44:34.54
maybe You can give me wings,
00:44:34.57\00:44:37.61
and I will fly
00:44:37.64\00:44:39.04
and they would
just not find me."
00:44:39.07\00:44:41.74
And I waited for
wings, there were no wings.
00:44:41.78\00:44:45.35
So I kept praying, I said,
00:44:45.38\00:44:47.88
"Lord, what are You doing about?
00:44:47.92\00:44:49.95
The grave is ending and
they're going to kill me.
00:44:49.98\00:44:52.72
You bring about fire."
00:44:52.75\00:44:54.52
I remembered the story of Elijah
00:44:54.56\00:44:56.83
and I said, "Maybe
God can bring about fire
00:44:56.86\00:44:58.76
and all of us are
gonna be scattered and run,"
00:44:58.79\00:45:01.66
and there was no fire.
00:45:01.70\00:45:04.80
Now, one thing I
didn't remember is that,
00:45:04.83\00:45:07.47
actually,
00:45:07.54\00:45:08.87
there are not two stories
in the Bible of the fire.
00:45:08.90\00:45:13.71
Right?
00:45:13.78\00:45:15.11
It's only one of Elijah
00:45:15.14\00:45:16.85
and so God doesn't have
to repeat the same thing
00:45:16.88\00:45:19.81
for someone, right?
00:45:19.85\00:45:21.32
The Red Sea didn't happen twice.
00:45:21.35\00:45:23.69
And God, He never
runs out of solutions.
00:45:23.72\00:45:27.56
And so as I was digging,
00:45:27.59\00:45:29.86
then I said You bring thunder
00:45:29.89\00:45:31.46
and all of us are
gonna be scattered,
00:45:31.49\00:45:34.00
but God had actually
designed the way out, amen.
00:45:34.03\00:45:37.97
And so because
one of the killers
00:45:38.00\00:45:40.17
holding my Bible,
00:45:40.24\00:45:41.57
now he's reading.
00:45:41.60\00:45:43.91
He opens the Bible
00:45:43.94\00:45:45.54
and he reads the
highlighted verses
00:45:45.57\00:45:47.38
and then he say,
he pauses, he say,
00:45:47.41\00:45:48.74
"Hey, wait a minute,"
00:45:48.78\00:45:50.11
right in the grave he said,
00:45:50.15\00:45:51.48
"Why are these
colors in this book?"
00:45:51.51\00:45:54.42
And I said, "These
are my favorite verses."
00:45:54.45\00:45:58.12
And then he says,
00:45:58.15\00:46:00.26
"Oh, these are your verses?
00:46:00.29\00:46:02.69
You mean, you've read this?"
00:46:02.72\00:46:04.33
I said, "Yes."
00:46:04.36\00:46:06.03
And he keeps opening
00:46:06.06\00:46:07.50
and he reads
every colorful verse,
00:46:07.53\00:46:10.17
and he reads,
00:46:10.20\00:46:11.53
and somehow the
Holy Spirit is working
00:46:11.57\00:46:14.27
and, you know, and as he reads,
00:46:14.30\00:46:17.31
he's touched, and
then finally he says,
00:46:17.34\00:46:19.14
"Hey, you mean you
have read all these?"
00:46:19.17\00:46:20.98
I said, "Yes"
00:46:21.01\00:46:22.44
And finally, at last, he
says, "I beg your pardon?
00:46:22.48\00:46:27.22
Before you die, can
you give me this book?"
00:46:27.25\00:46:29.62
And I said, "Go
ahead and get it."
00:46:29.65\00:46:31.92
because I reason that...
00:46:31.95\00:46:33.29
there was no way I was
going to claim it back anyway,
00:46:33.36\00:46:35.59
if I happen to fly
or so there was no way.
00:46:35.62\00:46:38.99
So you go ahead and get it.
00:46:39.03\00:46:40.70
But as the killer
said, no, he cannot get it.
00:46:40.73\00:46:44.47
That is not his book.
00:46:44.50\00:46:45.83
He doesn't even
belong to himself.
00:46:45.87\00:46:48.14
And he said, if you
need it, you pay us money.
00:46:48.17\00:46:50.84
He said, "Don't worry,
00:46:50.91\00:46:52.24
no matter how
much money you want,
00:46:52.27\00:46:54.18
I will get this book."
00:46:54.21\00:46:56.44
So he was with me now,
00:46:56.48\00:46:57.98
the story is long
00:46:58.01\00:46:59.35
'cause I know
we don't have time.
00:46:59.38\00:47:03.05
But let me tell you,
00:47:03.08\00:47:04.75
something happened
that changed everything.
00:47:04.79\00:47:09.86
Finally, God
brought about in us.
00:47:09.89\00:47:11.96
One of the
killers came by and said,
00:47:11.99\00:47:13.43
"Hey, listen,
00:47:13.50\00:47:14.83
why are we burying
these people into our field?
00:47:14.86\00:47:17.37
This is our property
and we don't know him,
00:47:17.40\00:47:19.73
why are we
burying him in there?"
00:47:19.77\00:47:22.27
And then
everybody was looking at him
00:47:22.30\00:47:24.81
and he said, "No."
00:47:24.84\00:47:26.17
There was another person
00:47:26.21\00:47:27.58
who had been killed
and they were saying
00:47:27.61\00:47:28.94
that we bury three of
us into the same grave
00:47:28.98\00:47:31.78
and so he said,
00:47:31.81\00:47:33.52
"Let's use this grave to bury
that person we killed before
00:47:33.55\00:47:37.29
and these boys, they would go
00:47:37.32\00:47:38.95
and dig another
grave near the highway."
00:47:38.99\00:47:41.72
Now my grave was taken.
00:47:41.76\00:47:44.23
But that was God's answer, amen.
00:47:44.26\00:47:46.26
Amen.
00:47:46.29\00:47:47.63
He brings about His
solution in a way that
00:47:47.66\00:47:49.70
you and I can
never think of, amen.
00:47:49.73\00:47:52.40
And so just imagine and
right, the grave is finished.
00:47:52.43\00:47:57.41
By the way, the
guy offered to help us.
00:47:57.44\00:48:00.88
The guy who had
my Bible, he said,
00:48:00.91\00:48:02.41
"Please allow me to help him."
00:48:02.44\00:48:03.85
He didn't want me to suffer.
00:48:03.88\00:48:05.85
He was right now with me, right?
00:48:05.88\00:48:07.88
And so he jumped into the
grave and he started digging.
00:48:07.92\00:48:11.39
And then I said, "No, please."
00:48:11.42\00:48:13.66
I said, "Lord,
what are You doing?
00:48:13.69\00:48:15.29
This man is so strong,
he is finishing the grave
00:48:15.32\00:48:17.66
and they will kill
me, You're doing nothing."
00:48:17.69\00:48:20.10
But God had done
something already.
00:48:20.13\00:48:22.83
And so finally
when the grave finished,
00:48:22.86\00:48:26.17
somebody came just ironically,
00:48:26.20\00:48:29.80
he said, "Why don't we pray
for the people we are killing?"
00:48:29.84\00:48:33.21
Wow.
00:48:33.24\00:48:34.58
Oh,
00:48:34.61\00:48:35.94
obviously I sense that
these are Roman Catholics
00:48:35.98\00:48:38.88
and because they anyway,
00:48:38.91\00:48:40.92
maybe some of the
participants as well,
00:48:40.95\00:48:42.72
they pray for the dead.
00:48:42.75\00:48:44.12
And so I said,
00:48:44.19\00:48:45.72
oh maybe they don't
know the biblical truth.
00:48:45.75\00:48:48.56
Ecclesiastes says, no,
dead no nothing, right?
00:48:48.59\00:48:54.10
They have no hatred and no love.
00:48:54.13\00:48:56.56
And then one of them said
00:48:56.60\00:48:58.60
"No, Mary, mother
of Jesus receive ye.
00:48:58.63\00:49:01.30
Mary mother of..."
00:49:01.34\00:49:02.67
And everyone was
saying the same story
00:49:02.70\00:49:04.77
and my heart changed.
00:49:04.81\00:49:06.78
I said, Lord, I felt very bad.
00:49:06.81\00:49:08.74
I said, Lord,
00:49:08.78\00:49:10.18
"I'm going to defend Your honor
00:49:10.25\00:49:12.15
and I'm going to
tell these people
00:49:12.18\00:49:13.72
who you are."
00:49:13.75\00:49:15.42
And I said,
"Don't allow me to fly
00:49:15.45\00:49:17.75
until I've told them who You are
00:49:17.79\00:49:20.26
because they are insulting You.
00:49:20.29\00:49:21.82
They are killing people
and they are praying for them."
00:49:21.86\00:49:25.16
And right after
they buried the person,
00:49:25.19\00:49:29.43
we went to the highway,
00:49:29.46\00:49:30.80
there was a
very beautiful place.
00:49:30.87\00:49:32.23
So we had to
00:49:32.27\00:49:33.94
where I was
supposed to dig another grave
00:49:33.97\00:49:35.94
and I approached the
man who had my Bible,
00:49:35.97\00:49:37.67
he said, "Can
you give me that book
00:49:37.71\00:49:39.61
so that I can share?
00:49:39.64\00:49:41.04
I can say something
before I dig another grave?"
00:49:41.08\00:49:44.28
Because that was
a beautiful place
00:49:44.31\00:49:45.65
that so people
could sit and listen,
00:49:45.68\00:49:48.35
and now interestingly
he didn't allow that.
00:49:48.38\00:49:51.22
I mean, he allowed he said,
00:49:51.25\00:49:52.75
"Yes, go ahead."
00:49:52.79\00:49:54.16
He was with me, go
ahead and say something.
00:49:54.19\00:49:55.89
But there was another
militia right close to him.
00:49:55.92\00:49:58.59
And he said, "No,
00:49:58.63\00:50:01.56
he will say nothing to us."
00:50:01.60\00:50:03.57
We are going to kill him.
00:50:03.60\00:50:05.37
He's our enemy.
00:50:05.40\00:50:06.74
And guess what?
00:50:06.77\00:50:08.57
The other guy said,
"No, he can say something."
00:50:08.60\00:50:11.97
Now the other one
say, "No, nothing,
00:50:12.01\00:50:13.88
we don't want to
listen, he has nothing to do."
00:50:13.91\00:50:16.08
Now, everybody who will listen
to the shout argument lined up,
00:50:16.11\00:50:22.08
one on the side of those
who wanted me to say something,
00:50:22.12\00:50:25.35
and the others
on the side of those
00:50:25.39\00:50:27.16
who didn't want
me to say a thing.
00:50:27.19\00:50:29.02
And interestingly,
now they were so many,
00:50:29.06\00:50:32.96
they were like 40 of them
00:50:32.99\00:50:35.10
and so finally,
they were about to fight.
00:50:35.13\00:50:39.30
All of them are armed.
00:50:39.33\00:50:40.94
And one of them stood
up and said, wait a minute,
00:50:40.97\00:50:43.41
why are you going
to kill each other
00:50:43.44\00:50:45.14
because of this stranger?
00:50:45.17\00:50:46.88
We don't know him.
00:50:46.91\00:50:48.24
Why are you
fighting over a stranger?
00:50:48.28\00:50:50.08
Let me suggest something.
00:50:50.15\00:50:52.11
Those of you who want to listen,
00:50:52.15\00:50:54.85
you sit down and listen.
00:50:54.88\00:50:57.29
And those of you who
don't want to listen,
00:50:57.32\00:50:59.32
you sit down and shut your ears.
00:50:59.35\00:51:02.22
And then let him speak
and then we'll kill him.
00:51:02.26\00:51:04.99
Now it was like a
fair, right, suggestion.
00:51:05.03\00:51:08.60
Everybody sat down,
00:51:08.63\00:51:09.96
but no one
actually closed the ears.
00:51:10.00\00:51:11.97
Oh, my goodness.
00:51:12.00\00:51:13.34
Everybody was sitting
down and I took my Bible
00:51:13.37\00:51:15.90
and I read 1 Peter 2:9,
00:51:15.94\00:51:21.11
which actually talks
about you are a holy people,
00:51:21.14\00:51:24.55
as people belonging to God,
00:51:24.58\00:51:26.72
we, I was saying no,
00:51:26.75\00:51:28.68
I started thanking God,
00:51:28.72\00:51:30.49
thanking them for what they did
00:51:30.52\00:51:32.15
and I assured them I told them,
00:51:32.19\00:51:33.66
no, I'm not begging
for you to let me go
00:51:33.69\00:51:36.56
because I know
even if you kill me,
00:51:36.59\00:51:38.73
I know there is a day
that I'm going to rise.
00:51:38.76\00:51:42.60
Amen. Amen.
00:51:42.63\00:51:44.40
And I was telling them
but you are killing people.
00:51:44.43\00:51:48.10
You better let
them pray for themselves
00:51:48.14\00:51:51.27
before you kill them.
00:51:51.31\00:51:52.64
Amen.
00:51:52.67\00:51:54.01
And I told them,
00:51:54.08\00:51:55.41
there are people
whom you are killing,
00:51:55.44\00:51:57.35
they are not Tutsis or Hutus
in the way you think of them,
00:51:57.38\00:52:01.32
they are the children
of God as the verse says
00:52:01.35\00:52:04.39
and you are just
doing the work of the devil.
00:52:04.42\00:52:08.09
Don't you think
00:52:08.12\00:52:09.46
you are actually
doing the work of God.
00:52:09.49\00:52:13.06
We just got converted.
00:52:13.09\00:52:16.03
Non conversion as such
but God worked out a miracle
00:52:16.06\00:52:18.90
as soon as I finished.
00:52:18.93\00:52:20.27
They shouted and
said, "Let him go,
00:52:20.34\00:52:21.67
we cannot kill such a person.
00:52:21.70\00:52:23.04
Let him go."
00:52:23.07\00:52:24.41
And it is, you know, your story,
00:52:24.44\00:52:27.38
God worked miracle after miracle
00:52:27.41\00:52:29.98
and you'll want to get the book,
00:52:30.05\00:52:31.51
it's called
Preaching from the Grave.
00:52:31.55\00:52:34.55
It will be released August 2019.
00:52:34.58\00:52:37.85
Preaching from the
Grave because as I said,
00:52:37.89\00:52:40.36
we've only touched on this,
00:52:40.39\00:52:42.22
but we also wanted to
put up your email address
00:52:42.26\00:52:46.46
because perhaps you
want to get in touch
00:52:46.49\00:52:49.80
with Phodidas.
00:52:49.83\00:52:51.27
So that is phodidas@weimar.edu.
00:52:51.33\00:52:56.81
They can also call at Weimar,
00:52:56.84\00:52:58.17
they can look at Weimar website.
00:52:58.21\00:53:00.11
Okay, on Weimar website,
00:53:00.18\00:53:01.74
but let me spell
that phodidas@weimar.edu.
00:53:01.78\00:53:07.75
That's how you can
get in touch with him.
00:53:12.45\00:53:14.39
We've got to go to a news break.
00:53:14.42\00:53:16.09
We'll be back in just a second.
00:53:16.12\00:53:18.39