I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today,
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my name is John Lomacang,
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but if you're
part of our family,
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you know that.
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Thank you for
taking the time today
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to tune into a very exciting
and informative program.
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And I wanna thank
you for your prayers
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and your financial
support of this network,
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as we continue
going and growing,
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getting ready for
the soon return of Jesus.
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You know,
everyone is on a journey.
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You're sitting down right now,
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may be standing up,
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you may be with your
family or by yourself,
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you may be listening in your car
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or watching in a church
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but today it's about journeys.
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Everyone has a journey.
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We have a beginning point
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and then we come
later in life to understand
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where the Lord always
knew that we would be.
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Today our guest is going to talk
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about his journey,
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his spiritual journey,
his psychological journey,
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his journey of
adjusting from where he was
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to where he is.
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Not only himself but his family
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and if you're on a journey,
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maybe a spiritual one
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wondering where the
Lord is guiding you,
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I really encourage you
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to stay tuned for this exciting
and informative program.
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Not only
informative, but I also believe
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it's going to be transformative.
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But before we get to
our... introducing our guest,
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Sam Ocampo is going to
play a wonderful piano piece
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entitled, "What
A Precious Friend."
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Thank you, Sam, for
that wonderful rendition
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of "What A
Precious Friend Is He."
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I think it's a very good note
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to segue to
introduce our guest for today,
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Dr. Robert Nohr,
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family ministry coordinator
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of the Milwaukee
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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So good to have you here today.
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Thank you, Pastor
John. It's great to be here.
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Yes. I am particularly excited
about our interview today
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because of what we talked about
prior to coming on the set,
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but we have people that
are watching the program
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and that are
listening to the program,
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and they might say, "I
don't know Dr. Robert Nohr."
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So give us kind of a summary,
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a nutshell of who you are
and what you do right now?
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So I'm a clinical psychologist
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in Milwaukee in
private practice.
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I'm also with my
wife, Dee Piekarek,
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co family ministry coordinator
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at Milwaukee Central
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Okay. And your
medical background.
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Give us an... Give us a...
You're a clinical psychologist.
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Right. So I have a PhD
in clinical psychology.
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Okay.
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So you're not just a...
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I'm sitting here, like
a launch pad, fighter jet,
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because I know that
we're going to catapult
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into a very interesting
journey that you've experienced.
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And give us a little
bit about your background.
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You just summarized what you do
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and the church
you're working with,
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but kind of walk us
through your journey
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because your
journey is very interesting.
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Not totally unique
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because other
people have had journeys,
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but each one of us
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has a fingerprint
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in our journey that
no one else can share,
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talk about that.
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Right.
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So I was raised in a
suburb outside of Milwaukee,
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in a Catholic family,
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attended a
Catholic grade school.
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And my mom was a praying mom.
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And they wanted us
to know the Lord Jesus
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and sent us to
the Catholic school.
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And so I, you know,
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it was an important part
of my childhood experience.
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I was always the kind of kid
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who was taking faith seriously,
very interested in that.
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And so, of course, you
know, in a Catholic family,
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if you're highly
interested, young man in faith,
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the path of the priesthood
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is something that
comes up for consideration.
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And that was the
path that I chose.
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So from...
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At what age did you think
that that's what I want to do?
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Well, I thought about
it even in grade school,
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going into ministry,
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and I think it was
somewhat solidified.
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My family went
through a rough time
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that ended in my
parent's divorce,
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when I was about 13.
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And there certainly
were community members,
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teachers there at the school
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that were really
supportive of me at that time
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and having to rely
on my faith in some ways
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that maybe some
other kids didn't.
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And so it just
sort of crystallized
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that, "Hey, I really
need the Lord in my life."
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And this seems to
be the way to do that.
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So having this aspiration
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that at a critical
juncture in your life,
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you know, anytime we experienced
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anything as traumatic
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and 13 years old,
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you have to
choose almost emotionally
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which parent you
want to stay with.
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But then again,
you're caught in the middle,
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any way you look at it.
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And then when your
faith community steps in,
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it gives you a foundation.
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And I'm assuming
then at that time,
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your faith community,
being the Catholic community,
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just really embraced you,
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the priest and
everybody just was there
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to help you
through a tough time.
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That's right.
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You know, there were teachers,
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there were friends of
mine, the parents of my friends
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at that age that took
an extra interest in me
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and, you know, gave me
some spiritual encouragement
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and wanted to be
sure I had what I needed
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as I was going through
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some difficult
things in the family time.
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And I think that's
somewhat solidified
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as certainly my
understanding of how much,
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you know, faith
makes a difference
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in a person's life.
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But somewhere this
journey continued in there...
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At some point there
was a fork in the road,
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13 years old, family
going through divorce,
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at what point in
your years following that,
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that this spark of
a different interest
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start to seep into your life?
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So I think it was probably
my freshman year of college
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when I was thinking more
seriously about ministry,
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and I decided to
go into the seminary.
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I ended up
finishing my undergraduate
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and then I ended up doing
my graduate studies in Rome.
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So I spent three years
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across the street
from the Vatican...
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Wow.
00:10:01.16\00:10:02.50
Studying theology and
went all the way through
00:10:02.53\00:10:04.73
to being ordained as a deacon
00:10:04.77\00:10:06.10
and being ordained
as a Catholic priest.
00:10:06.13\00:10:08.60
Wow. So you really, I mean,
you didn't lose trajectory.
00:10:08.64\00:10:12.07
You just went all the
way to the top thinking,
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"Well, this is what I'm going
to solidify myself in doing
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and this is going to
be my life practice."
00:10:17.45\00:10:19.68
That's right.
00:10:19.71\00:10:21.05
What happened?
00:10:21.08\00:10:22.42
So I was ordained and I
was serving as a priest.
00:10:22.45\00:10:25.62
And there were
many aspects of ministry
00:10:25.65\00:10:28.09
that I really
liked it, like preaching,
00:10:28.12\00:10:30.13
I like the pastoral counseling.
00:10:30.16\00:10:32.49
But I began to question
00:10:32.53\00:10:34.20
the mandatory
celibacy requirement.
00:10:34.23\00:10:37.27
I just wondered
00:10:37.30\00:10:38.63
if I had given up too quickly
00:10:38.67\00:10:41.27
on the idea of a
wife and children,
00:10:41.30\00:10:44.01
maybe some of the
messiness of my parent's divorce
00:10:44.04\00:10:46.47
played into that like,
00:10:46.51\00:10:47.84
"Oh, that just looks hard.
Maybe I'll just go over here."
00:10:47.88\00:10:51.05
So I'm questioning
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whether perhaps I gave
up on that too quickly,
00:10:52.45\00:10:55.38
and
experiencing some loneliness,
00:10:55.42\00:10:57.59
but to be honest, it, you know,
00:10:57.62\00:10:59.35
if it is just been,
"Oh, this isn't a fit for me.
00:10:59.39\00:11:02.29
Maybe I'll just leave,"
that would be one thing,
00:11:02.32\00:11:04.39
but I think the other
thing that happened is
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.80
I was looking around at
my friends in the priesthood
00:11:06.83\00:11:09.80
and really
concluding that it seemed like
00:11:09.83\00:11:12.03
there's a lot of people
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for whom this was not
working well as a system.
00:11:13.47\00:11:18.44
You know, there definitely were
00:11:18.47\00:11:19.81
dedicated
individual followers of Christ,
00:11:19.84\00:11:22.48
of course, in the
ranks of the priesthood,
00:11:22.51\00:11:25.01
but looking at it as a system.
00:11:25.05\00:11:27.72
I'm just noticing,
there are a lot of problems.
00:11:27.75\00:11:31.02
It seems like for
a lot of guys there,
00:11:31.05\00:11:33.76
they want to be
a Christian leader,
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.12
and they're trying
to make this piece fit
00:11:35.16\00:11:37.96
versus really saying,
00:11:37.99\00:11:39.56
"Oh, I really feel called by God
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to this unmarried state."
00:11:41.76\00:11:44.40
And I'm seeing, to be
honest, I'm seeing problems.
00:11:44.43\00:11:47.37
I'm seeing priests
violate celibacy, secretly,
00:11:47.44\00:11:50.91
I'm seeing loneliness
and alcohol abuse at times,
00:11:50.94\00:11:54.28
like when you're
trying to make something fit
00:11:54.31\00:11:56.28
that doesn't fit,
00:11:56.31\00:11:58.11
things don't always go so well.
00:11:58.15\00:11:59.51
So I'm starting to
question at a systemic level,
00:11:59.55\00:12:03.49
if this is really the
best way to pick leadership.
00:12:03.52\00:12:07.56
To choose leadership
from a small sample of,
00:12:07.59\00:12:10.63
you know, unmarried males,
00:12:10.66\00:12:13.63
you're knocking
out a lot of people
00:12:13.70\00:12:15.03
who could be good leaders
when you're doing it that way.
00:12:15.06\00:12:18.30
So, to be honest, I
start to think, well,
00:12:18.33\00:12:22.47
you know, if the
church I'm in can be wrong
00:12:22.50\00:12:26.04
about something so fundamental,
00:12:26.07\00:12:27.94
like how to pick leadership,
00:12:27.98\00:12:29.71
I mean, that's going to permeate
00:12:29.74\00:12:31.08
many, many aspects
of church functioning.
00:12:31.11\00:12:33.62
If they could be wrong
00:12:33.65\00:12:34.98
about something
that fundamental,
00:12:35.02\00:12:36.42
maybe I also have to ask
some other harder questions.
00:12:36.45\00:12:39.42
So then my personal journey
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.72
took me to graduate
school for psychology,
00:12:41.76\00:12:45.39
and I did leave the priesthood
00:12:45.43\00:12:46.80
and I had the goal to date
00:12:46.83\00:12:48.50
and find a good
Christian woman to marry.
00:12:48.53\00:12:52.30
And that was, I mean,
when you think about it,
00:12:52.33\00:12:54.04
and I like the way
you put that together,
00:12:54.07\00:12:55.40
because to be a
part of the priesthood,
00:12:55.44\00:12:57.81
you really are declaring
00:12:57.84\00:12:59.64
committing your
life to celibacy.
00:12:59.67\00:13:02.14
But at the very same time,
00:13:02.18\00:13:03.55
when you look at
the very beginning
00:13:03.58\00:13:05.21
of the Bible,
00:13:05.25\00:13:07.15
the Lord gave to
Adam, a wife, Eve,
00:13:07.22\00:13:11.19
and He says,
00:13:11.22\00:13:12.55
"Be fruitful and multiply
and replenish the earth."
00:13:12.59\00:13:16.22
And so He gave,
00:13:16.26\00:13:17.63
He gave these
qualities and these abilities
00:13:17.66\00:13:20.96
and that were actually
required to be suppressed
00:13:21.00\00:13:25.43
to function in the
capacity of a priest.
00:13:25.47\00:13:27.27
Right.
00:13:27.34\00:13:28.67
And as I said earlier, I
think, you know, of course,
00:13:28.70\00:13:30.11
there are individuals
00:13:30.14\00:13:31.64
who are called
to that single life.
00:13:31.67\00:13:34.54
But the notion
00:13:34.58\00:13:36.01
that you're going
to find enough leaders
00:13:36.04\00:13:37.85
out of that
smaller pool seems forced
00:13:37.88\00:13:40.92
and doesn't seem to
serve the church well,
00:13:40.95\00:13:43.69
in my opinion.
00:13:43.72\00:13:45.05
What was the name of
the lady that you met?
00:13:45.09\00:13:47.16
Dee Piekarek.
00:13:47.19\00:13:48.52
Okay. Tell us about her?
00:13:48.56\00:13:49.89
Fourth generation
Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:49.92\00:13:51.79
from Michigan.
00:13:51.83\00:13:53.16
Wow.
00:13:53.19\00:13:54.53
And... Where did y'all meet?
00:13:54.56\00:13:55.93
We were both working
at a psychiatric hospital
00:13:55.96\00:13:58.40
for troubled children.
00:13:58.43\00:13:59.77
At that point, I was
in my graduate studies
00:13:59.80\00:14:01.44
for psychology,
00:14:01.47\00:14:02.80
but I needed a part
time job to support myself
00:14:02.84\00:14:04.77
and she was looking at
entering into graduate school
00:14:04.81\00:14:07.48
for psychology.
00:14:07.51\00:14:08.84
So we were both
working on this hospital unit
00:14:08.88\00:14:11.81
for troubled kids.
00:14:11.85\00:14:13.42
And immediately I was impressed
00:14:13.45\00:14:14.78
with how great
she was with the kids
00:14:14.82\00:14:16.55
and fast forward,
00:14:16.58\00:14:18.22
she eventually became a
child clinical psychologist,
00:14:18.25\00:14:21.56
and is the co-Family
Ministry's coordinator
00:14:21.59\00:14:23.46
at Milwaukee Central.
00:14:23.53\00:14:24.86
Okay. Happened to be your wife.
00:14:24.89\00:14:26.23
Yes, exactly.
00:14:26.26\00:14:28.03
And so, you know,
00:14:28.06\00:14:29.70
I was impressed with
how she was with the kids.
00:14:29.73\00:14:31.43
And she tells me
00:14:31.47\00:14:32.80
she was impressed with
how I was with the kids.
00:14:32.83\00:14:35.57
And I was also impressed
00:14:35.60\00:14:36.94
with what intense
Christian she was.
00:14:37.01\00:14:40.18
To be perfectly honest,
00:14:40.21\00:14:41.54
I always thought,
well, whoever I marry,
00:14:41.58\00:14:43.38
I'm going to be the
more intense Christian.
00:14:43.45\00:14:45.08
I mean, I went all
the way into the ministry.
00:14:45.11\00:14:47.72
And I now see the point,
00:14:47.75\00:14:50.09
she is the more
intense Christian.
00:14:50.12\00:14:52.49
And from day one, I was
just impressed with that.
00:14:52.52\00:14:56.16
And so she started telling me
00:14:56.19\00:14:57.53
more about her
Adventist background.
00:14:57.56\00:15:00.03
And our spiritual discussions
00:15:00.10\00:15:02.90
were part of
the great connection
00:15:02.93\00:15:04.30
we had right from the beginning.
00:15:04.33\00:15:05.73
I could see that, I
mean, I could see that.
00:15:05.77\00:15:07.97
I would have loved to
have been a fly on the wall.
00:15:08.00\00:15:10.74
On the day when you
guys just started talking
00:15:10.81\00:15:12.84
about these divergent views,
00:15:12.87\00:15:14.84
these views that we're...
00:15:14.88\00:15:17.55
because of emotions
00:15:17.58\00:15:18.91
and because of the spark
that was obviously there.
00:15:18.95\00:15:21.48
You were going to find a
way to negotiate through these
00:15:21.52\00:15:23.82
just so this
relationship could make it,
00:15:23.89\00:15:26.62
but then there's
this deep interest
00:15:26.65\00:15:28.36
because you discovered,
I liked what you said,
00:15:28.39\00:15:30.36
"She was an intense Christian."
00:15:30.43\00:15:32.26
Intensely devoted,
00:15:32.29\00:15:33.63
and then you came out of this
whole culture of Catholicism,
00:15:33.70\00:15:38.20
bringing with it a
wealth of knowledge,
00:15:38.23\00:15:40.84
that was an interesting journey.
00:15:40.87\00:15:42.20
What was some of the
topics you talked about?
00:15:42.24\00:15:43.61
I mean, do you remember
00:15:43.64\00:15:44.97
the first thing
you talked about?
00:15:45.01\00:15:46.34
Well, we were,
00:15:46.37\00:15:47.71
I think we were sitting
on a bench watching our...
00:15:47.74\00:15:50.25
We'd have these teams
of kids we had to watch,
00:15:50.28\00:15:52.65
but we could have
a couple of minutes
00:15:52.68\00:15:54.02
as staff members
00:15:54.05\00:15:55.62
just to sit and
talk a little bit
00:15:55.65\00:15:58.29
and we just, just talking
about she said something like,
00:15:58.32\00:16:02.76
"I've always wanted to
be either a stay at home mom
00:16:02.79\00:16:04.86
or a medical missionary doctor."
00:16:04.89\00:16:07.20
And, of course, now
00:16:07.23\00:16:08.56
she's a part
time stay at home mom
00:16:08.60\00:16:10.00
and part time psychologist,
00:16:10.07\00:16:11.40
so she got pretty
close to her dream
00:16:11.43\00:16:13.47
and, you know, she was
open to talking about it.
00:16:13.54\00:16:17.84
I talked about my background
00:16:17.87\00:16:20.48
and we just compared notes
00:16:20.51\00:16:22.01
and she was very
into her faith, you know,
00:16:22.04\00:16:26.31
I mean, she did not
shy away from saying
00:16:26.35\00:16:30.19
that she felt like her faith
00:16:30.22\00:16:31.92
had created the
spiritual conditions
00:16:31.95\00:16:34.69
that it really
helped her to grow
00:16:34.72\00:16:37.36
and we just started
comparing notes on that.
00:16:37.43\00:16:40.00
So the day evidently came
00:16:40.03\00:16:42.36
when maybe did she
invite you to go to church?
00:16:42.40\00:16:45.90
Right, so a lot of things
are happening at this time.
00:16:45.93\00:16:49.14
So, you know, we're dating
and we're falling in love.
00:16:49.17\00:16:52.01
And so we really
want to make this work,
00:16:52.04\00:16:53.81
of course, we know we've got,
00:16:53.88\00:16:55.94
we're joined as
followers of the Lord Jesus,
00:16:55.98\00:16:58.55
but we know we're
going to have some issues,
00:16:58.58\00:17:00.22
so to speak, of how
we're going to work this out.
00:17:00.25\00:17:03.62
And so this leads
00:17:03.69\00:17:05.99
to what I would call my
rough start with Adventism,
00:17:06.02\00:17:10.03
if I could call
it that, you know,
00:17:10.06\00:17:12.69
so, she was relatively
new to the Milwaukee area.
00:17:12.73\00:17:15.70
So we're still looking at,
00:17:15.73\00:17:17.07
you know, multiple
Adventist churches as well.
00:17:17.10\00:17:20.24
So the truth of the
story is that the first...
00:17:20.27\00:17:23.27
Well, two out of
the first three times
00:17:23.30\00:17:25.94
that I stopped into
an Adventist Church,
00:17:25.97\00:17:28.71
the preacher was up there
really ripping into Catholics.
00:17:28.74\00:17:34.25
And I have to
be honest with you,
00:17:34.32\00:17:35.65
and I don't mean just,
00:17:35.68\00:17:37.02
you know,
prophetic proclamation,
00:17:37.05\00:17:38.49
I'm all for
prophetic proclamations.
00:17:38.52\00:17:40.56
I'm here to make one
today that I am grateful
00:17:40.59\00:17:42.96
that God has led
me to this light.
00:17:42.99\00:17:45.79
But I'm talking about,
00:17:45.83\00:17:47.66
you know, sort of personalizing,
00:17:47.70\00:17:50.10
yeah, demeaning, you
know, implying people
00:17:50.17\00:17:53.03
couldn't be
working with the Lord
00:17:53.07\00:17:56.04
and that really set me back.
00:17:56.07\00:17:57.77
It took a while to
overcome that first impression.
00:17:57.81\00:18:02.18
Now later, I would realize
00:18:02.21\00:18:04.08
that I could have walked
00:18:04.15\00:18:05.48
into an
Adventist Church 100 times
00:18:05.51\00:18:07.62
and, you know, 95 times
00:18:07.65\00:18:09.38
I would have heard
something completely different.
00:18:09.42\00:18:11.29
But first impressions matter.
00:18:11.32\00:18:12.65
Right.
00:18:12.69\00:18:14.06
So I did have this
sort of setback like,
00:18:14.09\00:18:15.96
wow, I don't know
00:18:15.99\00:18:17.33
if I could ever
join this group that,
00:18:17.36\00:18:19.19
you know, if this
is what they're about,
00:18:19.23\00:18:21.23
and you see more about,
00:18:21.26\00:18:22.60
you know,
tearing down other people
00:18:22.63\00:18:24.10
than saying what they're for.
00:18:24.17\00:18:26.53
And, of course, all
of that would change
00:18:26.57\00:18:28.94
as I got to know
the Adventist people
00:18:28.97\00:18:31.24
and I got to know
00:18:31.27\00:18:32.61
a number of
Adventist ministers up close.
00:18:32.64\00:18:36.41
But, it was a rough
start, and it's a good reminder,
00:18:36.44\00:18:38.28
we should always think about
00:18:38.31\00:18:39.65
who might be sitting out there
and follow Mrs. White's counsel
00:18:39.68\00:18:43.42
that, you know, we're
not here to tear down,
00:18:43.49\00:18:45.25
we're not going out of our way
to attack other denominations.
00:18:45.29\00:18:49.52
You know, matter of fact,
00:18:49.56\00:18:50.93
the Bible says,
Jesus said it Himself.
00:18:50.96\00:18:52.29
"If I be lifted up,
I'll draw all men to myself."
00:18:52.33\00:18:55.73
As somebody asked me
recently, when you go to church,
00:18:55.76\00:18:58.83
how do you decide what to preach
00:18:58.87\00:19:00.24
after you have
700 or 800 sermons,
00:19:00.27\00:19:02.40
and I said you
can never go wrong
00:19:02.44\00:19:03.81
if you lift up Jesus.
00:19:03.84\00:19:05.44
And so that's very important.
00:19:05.47\00:19:06.81
I'm glad you brought that,
00:19:06.88\00:19:08.21
you can never go
wrong if you lift up Christ.
00:19:08.24\00:19:09.94
He will draw people to Himself.
00:19:09.98\00:19:12.21
But so now you're negotiating.
00:19:12.25\00:19:16.08
I won't say a
mediocrity, amazing mediocrity
00:19:16.12\00:19:19.65
but you're negotiating,
and you kind of all right,
00:19:19.69\00:19:24.13
so much for that experience.
00:19:24.16\00:19:25.66
How do we continue there
00:19:25.69\00:19:27.03
because there's Dee who is this,
00:19:27.10\00:19:29.43
who's finding a
home in your heart,
00:19:29.46\00:19:31.67
and you're finding
a home in her heart.
00:19:31.70\00:19:34.27
And she's probably
wondering, "Okay, about this.
00:19:34.30\00:19:37.61
I understand, you know, hold on,
00:19:37.64\00:19:40.28
this is not how
it'll always be."
00:19:40.31\00:19:41.64
Exactly.
00:19:41.68\00:19:43.01
And so the journey continues
00:19:43.04\00:19:44.38
and let's talk
about this transition
00:19:44.41\00:19:45.75
to where you kind
of sever and connect?
00:19:45.78\00:19:49.12
So then we walk into
Milwaukee Central SDA
00:19:49.15\00:19:53.25
and Pastor Rodney
Mills and his wife Pam
00:19:53.29\00:19:56.09
are the pastor in
the pastoral team.
00:19:56.12\00:19:58.89
And Pastor Rodney's area
of expertise is evangelism
00:19:58.93\00:20:02.76
and it really showed, he just...
00:20:02.80\00:20:05.30
Well, he and Pam
just welcomed us so much.
00:20:05.33\00:20:08.54
I mean, just said,
"Hey, you're welcome
00:20:08.57\00:20:10.91
to participate as much
or as little as you want.
00:20:10.94\00:20:13.51
We're glad you're here."
00:20:13.58\00:20:15.08
You know, at that
point, we were young adults
00:20:15.11\00:20:17.78
and with a sort of
complicated story going here.
00:20:17.81\00:20:21.78
And everybody wants
to keep the young adults,
00:20:21.82\00:20:23.69
of course, and he
was really good at it
00:20:23.72\00:20:25.72
and just welcomed us.
00:20:25.75\00:20:27.36
We got involved in music.
00:20:27.39\00:20:30.43
And he did offer
me some Bible studies
00:20:30.46\00:20:34.10
that planted
very deep seeds in me,
00:20:34.13\00:20:36.43
he, you know, he'd sit down,
00:20:36.46\00:20:38.43
we had a lot of fun with
that with our two backgrounds
00:20:38.47\00:20:41.17
of having these
theological discussions.
00:20:41.20\00:20:44.61
And you know, he showed me
00:20:44.64\00:20:46.98
some of the
biblical basis of Adventism.
00:20:47.01\00:20:51.01
You know, things like saying,
00:20:51.05\00:20:52.65
Well, hey, do you
think there's still wisdom
00:20:52.68\00:20:54.75
and do not commit
adultery and do not steal?
00:20:54.78\00:20:57.82
I'd say, yeah, it's like, well,
then how about the Sabbath?
00:20:57.85\00:21:00.96
It's in the same list,
00:21:00.99\00:21:02.32
do you think there's
still some wisdom in that,
00:21:02.36\00:21:03.69
you know, this kind of thing
00:21:03.73\00:21:05.06
or showing me passages
00:21:05.09\00:21:06.43
where Jesus
anticipates the Sabbath
00:21:06.46\00:21:08.50
will continue after He's gone.
00:21:08.53\00:21:10.67
And I'm like, "Oh,
there is a logic to this."
00:21:10.70\00:21:13.94
There is a
biblical basis to this
00:21:13.97\00:21:15.30
that I'd never really looked at,
00:21:15.34\00:21:16.67
so, so some very deep seeds
00:21:16.71\00:21:18.61
between his welcome
and his Bible studies.
00:21:18.64\00:21:21.71
And then what happens
at Milwaukee Central is,
00:21:21.74\00:21:25.48
I'm just, I'm just
sort of falling in love
00:21:25.51\00:21:28.82
with these people.
00:21:28.85\00:21:30.32
Right? I'm getting such
a good welcome from them.
00:21:30.39\00:21:34.39
And I'm looking around
and I'm noticing, like,
00:21:34.42\00:21:36.56
"What is it
with these Adventists
00:21:36.59\00:21:39.83
that they shine so brightly?"
00:21:39.86\00:21:42.46
Right, like, we're supposed
to be the light of the world.
00:21:42.50\00:21:44.40
And it's like, all
these people are like,
00:21:44.43\00:21:46.50
why are they all 200
watt bulbs instead of 60,
00:21:46.53\00:21:50.34
you know, I
mean, it's like, well,
00:21:50.41\00:21:52.64
everybody gives more
than 10% of their income
00:21:52.67\00:21:54.94
and I'm like, "What
are you talking about?
00:21:54.98\00:21:56.48
Nobody does that."
00:21:56.51\00:21:57.95
You know, and we spend all day,
00:21:57.98\00:22:01.15
you know, worshiping God
and reflecting on the Word.
00:22:01.18\00:22:02.75
I say, "Well,
what are you talking?
00:22:02.78\00:22:04.12
Nobody does that.
00:22:04.19\00:22:05.52
Nobody stays in church all day.
00:22:05.55\00:22:06.89
Right. And so I'm
experiencing this.
00:22:06.92\00:22:09.42
And I'm like, wow,
I'm just very impressed.
00:22:09.46\00:22:14.30
And I'm starting to enjoy
00:22:14.33\00:22:17.30
spending these whole
days with our music group,
00:22:17.37\00:22:20.44
you know, just
not doing any work
00:22:20.47\00:22:22.50
and, you know,
just resting in the Lord
00:22:22.54\00:22:25.94
and having these
spiritual conversations
00:22:25.97\00:22:29.94
and, you know, it's just,
it's like it is my community,
00:22:29.98\00:22:32.85
even though it's not
yet officially my community,
00:22:32.88\00:22:35.98
it's really what's happening
00:22:36.02\00:22:37.39
and I give so much
credit to that congregation
00:22:37.42\00:22:40.36
for loving me as I was,
00:22:40.39\00:22:42.89
not just what I might
be some day, as a member,
00:22:42.92\00:22:46.36
but already loving me as I was,
00:22:46.39\00:22:49.33
just the ultimate sign
00:22:49.36\00:22:50.70
Jesus gave of His
true followers, of course.
00:22:50.77\00:22:53.44
Not with
ulterior motives. Right.
00:22:53.47\00:22:55.77
It was disinterested benevolence
00:22:55.80\00:22:57.14
just showing who they
are, rather than sales pitch.
00:22:57.21\00:23:00.71
Exactly.
00:23:00.78\00:23:02.11
Or prerequisite to
just reeling you in.
00:23:02.14\00:23:03.65
Exactly. And that's important.
00:23:03.68\00:23:05.05
I'm glad you bring that
up because a lot of times,
00:23:05.08\00:23:07.52
people even give Bible studies
00:23:07.55\00:23:09.45
with an ulterior motive in mind,
00:23:09.48\00:23:11.39
or they have conversations
00:23:11.42\00:23:12.82
and they just can't wait
to throw that hook in there
00:23:12.85\00:23:16.29
as though they're
fishing all the time.
00:23:16.32\00:23:18.96
But, you know,
even the Bible says,
00:23:18.99\00:23:20.90
"It is the goodness of God
that leads us to repentance."
00:23:20.93\00:23:25.30
You know, it's not
the doctrines of God
00:23:25.33\00:23:27.54
that leads us to repentance,
00:23:27.57\00:23:29.07
those come after.
00:23:29.10\00:23:30.91
And when we have
a love relationship,
00:23:30.94\00:23:32.51
this love connection,
00:23:32.54\00:23:34.11
a genuine scriptural
love for one another,
00:23:34.18\00:23:37.45
really an
interest in your well being
00:23:37.48\00:23:40.02
as well as mine,
00:23:40.05\00:23:41.52
it tends to come across
more genuine than just saying,
00:23:41.55\00:23:44.35
"Hey, Bob, how
long is it going to be
00:23:44.39\00:23:45.72
before you join our church?"
00:23:45.75\00:23:47.09
Exactly.
00:23:47.16\00:23:48.49
There's some
people that have that.
00:23:48.52\00:23:49.86
Now, I want to just add this.
00:23:49.89\00:23:51.23
You may have run
into some of those people
00:23:51.26\00:23:52.59
that have may have
asked you that question,
00:23:52.63\00:23:53.96
because there are some that
just kind of cut to the chase.
00:23:54.00\00:23:56.97
"So, hey, I heard
you're not an Adventist,
00:23:57.00\00:23:58.33
when it's going to be,"
00:23:58.37\00:23:59.70
you know, and that
throws people sometimes.
00:23:59.73\00:24:01.54
And what I got actually,
00:24:01.57\00:24:03.10
Pastor, was much more
wonderful invitations,
00:24:03.14\00:24:06.98
along the way.
00:24:07.01\00:24:08.34
People said, you know,
00:24:08.38\00:24:10.65
you certainly could be baptized,
00:24:10.68\00:24:12.81
or I wonder if God's calling
you to more in this church,
00:24:12.85\00:24:15.78
but they were very inviting,
00:24:15.82\00:24:18.25
you know, kind of a
thing and just accepting me as,
00:24:18.29\00:24:22.02
you know, sort of that,
00:24:22.06\00:24:23.53
I guess the old God
fears in the Jewish days,
00:24:23.56\00:24:26.90
they weren't quite Jewish,
00:24:26.93\00:24:28.26
but they were
sort of hanging around
00:24:28.30\00:24:29.63
and they just
accepted me in that capacity
00:24:29.66\00:24:31.37
for a long time.
00:24:31.40\00:24:32.73
And that's very good,
because you on this journey,
00:24:32.77\00:24:34.74
I mean, as a Catholic
priest you're coming out of,
00:24:34.77\00:24:38.41
you're not just coming out
of a theological experience,
00:24:38.44\00:24:40.48
you're coming out of dogma,
00:24:40.51\00:24:42.41
you're coming out of the
deep seated understanding
00:24:42.44\00:24:45.91
of that's A, this is B,
00:24:45.95\00:24:48.88
and the two don't mesh,
because the Sabbath was one.
00:24:48.92\00:24:51.99
But then when did you...
00:24:52.02\00:24:53.96
How did you
handle the understanding
00:24:53.99\00:24:56.46
of what happens
when a person dies,
00:24:56.49\00:24:58.26
I mean, that's just something
that's quite different.
00:24:58.29\00:25:00.73
Right, so that was
part of Pastor Rodney Mills'
00:25:00.80\00:25:03.47
Bible studies with me
00:25:03.50\00:25:04.83
was showing me that
there is a biblical basis,
00:25:04.87\00:25:08.20
of course, you know,
00:25:08.24\00:25:09.57
for the state of
the dead doctrine.
00:25:09.60\00:25:11.81
And once again, I was
growing in respect for it
00:25:11.84\00:25:14.71
because I was
getting a presentation of it,
00:25:14.74\00:25:17.08
you know, that
was really showing,
00:25:17.15\00:25:18.48
hey, here's the biblical basis.
00:25:18.51\00:25:20.75
And here's some of
the implications of it.
00:25:20.82\00:25:23.89
And so just the
way it was presented,
00:25:23.92\00:25:26.76
it was easy for me
to grow and respect.
00:25:26.79\00:25:30.16
And I like that.
00:25:30.23\00:25:31.56
How much of your
background as a doctor
00:25:31.59\00:25:33.70
played a role in
assimilating and in the segue
00:25:33.73\00:25:37.67
from where you
were to where you are?
00:25:37.70\00:25:39.07
That's an
excellent point, actually.
00:25:39.10\00:25:41.34
I think that
being a psychologist,
00:25:41.37\00:25:46.04
you're always looking carefully
at what would help people,
00:25:46.07\00:25:50.05
right?
00:25:50.08\00:25:51.41
And every day,
00:25:51.45\00:25:52.78
I hear people come in
my office with deep pain.
00:25:52.81\00:25:54.75
I mean, they've
got troubled marriages,
00:25:54.78\00:25:57.12
and depression, and anxiety,
and seeking purpose in life.
00:25:57.19\00:26:01.76
And so I've always drawn
those type of connections.
00:26:01.79\00:26:04.13
I've always thought the gospel
has the answer to much of that.
00:26:04.16\00:26:08.13
But now I'm in this
Adventist community.
00:26:08.16\00:26:11.57
And I'm really sort of
seeing with my own eyes,
00:26:11.60\00:26:14.27
hey, these
marriages look way stronger
00:26:14.30\00:26:16.81
than the average marriage,
00:26:16.84\00:26:18.17
I mean, you know, right,
nothing is 100% you know,
00:26:18.21\00:26:20.68
we have the same human struggles
00:26:20.71\00:26:22.14
in the Adventist church,
00:26:22.18\00:26:23.55
but like, on average,
00:26:23.58\00:26:24.91
you know, I'm seeing,
00:26:24.95\00:26:26.28
like, my in-laws
Carl and Ida Piekarek,
00:26:26.31\00:26:28.15
I mean, over 60 years, married,
00:26:28.18\00:26:31.02
you know, and I'm
looking at these and I'm saying,
00:26:31.05\00:26:32.85
Wow, what, you know,
what is this medicine
00:26:32.89\00:26:36.19
that is leading
00:26:36.22\00:26:37.66
to these great
outcomes in families,
00:26:37.69\00:26:39.56
and I'm looking at,
00:26:39.59\00:26:40.93
I'm just looking at the way
that faith for most Adventist
00:26:40.96\00:26:45.07
organizes everything else,
00:26:45.10\00:26:46.97
the use of
money, the use of time,
00:26:47.04\00:26:49.44
their parenting, their
dedication to marriage.
00:26:49.47\00:26:51.64
And, of course,
00:26:51.67\00:26:53.01
these are so many of the things
00:26:53.04\00:26:55.34
that everybody in
the world is seeking.
00:26:55.38\00:26:58.01
Right?
00:26:58.05\00:26:59.38
How do I raise my
kids in an environment
00:26:59.41\00:27:02.08
where there's going to
be positive influences?
00:27:02.12\00:27:05.29
How do we deal
with all these pressures
00:27:05.32\00:27:07.92
of narcissistic
competition in society
00:27:07.96\00:27:10.99
that doesn't lead anywhere?
00:27:11.03\00:27:12.59
And here we have this community
where there are different norms
00:27:12.63\00:27:16.23
where there are gospel norms.
00:27:16.26\00:27:17.97
So I think being a
psychologist who's looking at,
00:27:18.00\00:27:20.34
you know, what works,
00:27:20.37\00:27:21.87
you know, just in
a practical sense,
00:27:21.90\00:27:23.61
was a part of my attraction.
00:27:23.64\00:27:24.97
Yeah.
00:27:25.01\00:27:26.34
And being able to
say, "Wow, look at this."
00:27:26.37\00:27:27.98
And because in your
practice, as a psychologist,
00:27:28.01\00:27:31.65
your role is to help
people in their journey,
00:27:31.68\00:27:36.42
psychological
journey, relational journeys,
00:27:36.45\00:27:39.72
and we thirst for,
00:27:39.75\00:27:43.26
we thirst for that moment
when the person says, I got it.
00:27:43.29\00:27:46.56
Thanks for your help.
00:27:46.59\00:27:47.93
I, you know, I know
it's been difficult for us,
00:27:47.96\00:27:50.17
but thank you for
hanging in there with me.
00:27:50.20\00:27:52.70
And you're now seeing examples
00:27:52.73\00:27:55.80
of what a
healthy family should be,
00:27:55.84\00:27:58.31
what it means to be.
00:27:58.34\00:28:00.51
Are we going to
be in church all day,
00:28:00.58\00:28:01.98
not just for like an
hour and a half or an hour?
00:28:02.01\00:28:05.45
Don't we do whatever we
want for the rest of the day?
00:28:05.48\00:28:07.32
And all of a sudden
you're in a community that says,
00:28:07.35\00:28:09.12
"Oh, no, wait a
minute, wait a minute,
00:28:09.15\00:28:10.49
from sunset to sunset,
we celebrate the Sabbath."
00:28:10.52\00:28:15.06
That must have
been an experience?
00:28:15.09\00:28:16.42
Absolutely.
00:28:16.46\00:28:17.79
Or just the intensity of like
00:28:17.83\00:28:19.16
starting kids
out in cradle roll,
00:28:19.19\00:28:21.20
like, well,
nobody starts from birth,
00:28:21.23\00:28:22.93
what are you
going to do with them?
00:28:22.96\00:28:24.30
And Dee said,
"You're going to see
00:28:24.33\00:28:25.67
what we're
going to do with them.
00:28:25.70\00:28:27.04
We're going to sing songs,
we're going to do things."
00:28:27.07\00:28:29.67
And even that experience,
00:28:29.70\00:28:31.04
it's like, wow,
that that's working.
00:28:31.07\00:28:32.44
You know,
00:28:32.47\00:28:33.81
these kids are
already learning some things.
00:28:33.88\00:28:35.41
They're already
coming closer to Jesus
00:28:35.44\00:28:38.85
in that intense
Adventist commitment
00:28:38.88\00:28:40.92
to educating our youth,
00:28:40.95\00:28:43.49
they're just sort of everywhere.
00:28:43.52\00:28:45.49
And you began to see
that Adventist Christianity
00:28:45.52\00:28:48.62
is not some
cult driven community
00:28:48.66\00:28:53.26
but one that's Christ centered.
00:28:53.29\00:28:55.33
Absolutely.
00:28:55.36\00:28:56.70
So often, you know, the
opposite can be labeled...
00:28:56.77\00:29:01.00
Right.
00:29:01.04\00:29:02.37
They're a cult, but then
you come into a community,
00:29:02.40\00:29:03.81
you begin to see,
00:29:03.84\00:29:05.17
Christ is
affecting from cradle roll...
00:29:05.21\00:29:06.54
Exactly.
00:29:06.57\00:29:07.91
All throughout marriage. Right.
00:29:07.94\00:29:09.28
Well, let me
continue that point if I may.
00:29:09.31\00:29:10.65
So, so that leads into maybe
the next step of the journey
00:29:10.68\00:29:15.42
so now I'm,
00:29:15.45\00:29:16.82
you know, I'm kind of a
member but not a member,
00:29:16.89\00:29:21.86
and Dee and I go into
our having children years.
00:29:21.89\00:29:25.93
Yes.
00:29:25.96\00:29:27.30
And we had some real
highs and some real lows
00:29:27.33\00:29:32.57
during that period,
00:29:32.60\00:29:33.97
where I felt like the
character of this community
00:29:34.04\00:29:36.04
once again was revealed to us.
00:29:36.07\00:29:39.64
We lost two sons to
neurological disorders,
00:29:39.67\00:29:43.85
our sons, Nikki and Maddie,
00:29:43.88\00:29:46.61
the saddest two days of
my life have been standing
00:29:46.65\00:29:51.59
on the platform at
Central for those funerals,
00:29:51.62\00:29:55.82
and the community
was just incredible.
00:29:55.86\00:29:59.46
So loving, so supportive,
00:29:59.49\00:30:03.97
reminding us the Lord is there
but not giving us pat answers,
00:30:04.00\00:30:07.37
you know, not trying to
run over the painful part,
00:30:07.44\00:30:09.80
really being willing to
enter in with us in that.
00:30:09.84\00:30:12.74
And in between the two boys,
00:30:12.77\00:30:14.18
the birth of our daughter,
Delaney, who's eight now,
00:30:14.21\00:30:17.15
and just being
willing to enter into our joy,
00:30:17.18\00:30:20.35
and being so blessed to have.
00:30:20.42\00:30:21.88
We had kind of a baby boom
00:30:21.92\00:30:23.69
around that time
when she was born.
00:30:23.72\00:30:25.45
So we have
straight cohort of families
00:30:25.49\00:30:27.92
raising their
families going forth together,
00:30:27.96\00:30:30.23
and I'm just loving
it, I'm just thinking,
00:30:30.26\00:30:32.13
what more could
man ask of his church.
00:30:32.16\00:30:35.16
I'm getting
everything I need here.
00:30:35.20\00:30:37.73
And then that
brings me forth to,
00:30:37.77\00:30:41.37
you know, kind of the
decision to be baptized.
00:30:41.40\00:30:44.77
So at this point,
00:30:44.81\00:30:46.37
I'm looking at
my daughter Delaney,
00:30:46.41\00:30:48.64
and I'm thinking
everybody wants the best
00:30:48.68\00:30:50.85
for their kid, right?
00:30:50.88\00:30:52.21
That's right.
00:30:52.25\00:30:53.58
And I'm thinking,
00:30:53.62\00:30:54.95
"I really hope
she'll marry an Adventist,"
00:30:54.98\00:30:57.29
you know, I think, you
know, there's no guarantees
00:30:57.32\00:30:59.52
but, you know,
statistically I'm feeling like
00:30:59.55\00:31:01.89
her best chance of getting
00:31:01.92\00:31:03.63
that incredibly dedicated
Christian man for husband,
00:31:03.66\00:31:06.13
is going to be in
the Adventist Church
00:31:06.16\00:31:07.50
and so I want the best for her.
00:31:07.53\00:31:09.46
And here I am saying
Adventism is the best.
00:31:09.50\00:31:12.87
Well,
00:31:12.90\00:31:14.24
why am I not giving
myself the best then?
00:31:14.27\00:31:15.80
Why am I not?
00:31:15.84\00:31:17.21
You know, kind of going all in?
00:31:17.24\00:31:18.87
So that insight is hitting me.
00:31:18.91\00:31:21.24
And at the same time,
00:31:21.28\00:31:22.61
I had a spiritual
experience at Camp Wakonda
00:31:22.64\00:31:25.11
at camp meeting in Wisconsin.
00:31:25.15\00:31:26.75
Well, I know that, I
spoke at that camp in '92.
00:31:26.82\00:31:30.29
It's great, isn't it?
00:31:30.32\00:31:31.65
It's amazing.
00:31:31.69\00:31:33.02
Yeah, very outdoorsy.
00:31:33.05\00:31:34.39
It's become one of
my favorite places.
00:31:34.42\00:31:35.76
So at camp meeting,
00:31:35.79\00:31:38.06
I'm just walking the grounds
00:31:38.09\00:31:39.43
and you know, at
camp meeting it's like,
00:31:39.46\00:31:41.43
it's like its own
city during that time.
00:31:41.46\00:31:43.13
You're kind of
your own community
00:31:43.16\00:31:44.53
at that time.
00:31:44.57\00:31:45.90
And I'm walking the grounds
00:31:45.93\00:31:47.27
and I'm just with
all these wonderful,
00:31:47.34\00:31:49.27
trustworthy people.
00:31:49.30\00:31:51.04
And I'm looking around
and I'm saying to myself,
00:31:51.07\00:31:54.08
"You know, this is probably
what heaven would look like."
00:31:54.11\00:31:58.31
You know, I mean,
00:31:58.35\00:31:59.68
if everybody by God's grace
00:31:59.71\00:32:02.32
just followed
the Ten Commandments,
00:32:02.35\00:32:03.89
what a different
world it would be.
00:32:03.92\00:32:06.42
Say that again.
00:32:06.45\00:32:07.79
If everyone by God's grace
00:32:07.82\00:32:10.16
just followed
the Ten Commandments,
00:32:10.23\00:32:11.66
what a different
world it would be.
00:32:11.69\00:32:15.03
That's amazing.
00:32:15.06\00:32:17.40
And why wouldn't I want
to be part of that community?
00:32:17.47\00:32:21.84
You know what's so
powerful about that statement.
00:32:21.87\00:32:24.01
I'm taking it from a person
with the background you have,
00:32:24.04\00:32:27.74
because I've heard that before.
00:32:27.78\00:32:29.71
But it gives a
different gravity to it.
00:32:29.74\00:32:32.25
You know, the G forces increase.
00:32:32.28\00:32:35.82
When our listeners
and viewers consider that
00:32:35.85\00:32:38.99
what you just said,
00:32:39.02\00:32:40.76
and I'm going to not
speak in the third person
00:32:40.79\00:32:42.72
was made by a person
00:32:42.76\00:32:45.06
who went through
the Catholic ministry,
00:32:45.09\00:32:47.43
who was a priest,
00:32:47.50\00:32:49.13
who went to the
theological schools,
00:32:49.16\00:32:51.10
who was ordained,
00:32:51.13\00:32:52.47
who was in the
ministry of Catholicism,
00:32:52.50\00:32:55.20
which we know traditionally
that a traditional community
00:32:55.24\00:32:59.44
and a biblical based community,
while the needs are identical,
00:32:59.47\00:33:03.65
everybody wants to be happier,
00:33:03.68\00:33:05.01
everybody wants to
have solid families,
00:33:05.05\00:33:06.38
everybody wants
to have their pains
00:33:06.41\00:33:07.78
and their hurts healed.
00:33:07.82\00:33:09.25
That's the commonality
of all the communities.
00:33:09.28\00:33:11.75
But then you come
out of a community
00:33:11.79\00:33:13.19
based on a lot of traditions
00:33:13.22\00:33:15.16
that have a rich
heritage behind it
00:33:15.19\00:33:17.99
to one that's
based on scripture,
00:33:18.03\00:33:20.00
which says, "If you love
Me, keep My commandments."
00:33:20.03\00:33:22.50
And you discover
that it's not a bad thing,
00:33:22.53\00:33:25.23
it's a good thing.
00:33:25.27\00:33:26.74
And so, as the pastor,
00:33:26.77\00:33:28.84
I go back a little
bit rewind the videotape.
00:33:28.87\00:33:30.41
Yes, of course.
00:33:30.44\00:33:31.77
When the pastor says,
00:33:31.81\00:33:33.48
he started reciting
the commandments to you,
00:33:33.51\00:33:35.24
and then he says,
00:33:35.28\00:33:36.75
"And so what's so
bad about the Sabbath,"
00:33:36.78\00:33:38.61
that's a part of
that whole dialog.
00:33:38.65\00:33:41.25
And you come out
of that rich heritage.
00:33:41.28\00:33:43.62
And so there are lights,
00:33:43.69\00:33:45.22
there are light bulbs coming on.
00:33:45.25\00:33:47.36
I go back to your analogy there,
00:33:47.39\00:33:48.79
200 watt light bulb
coming along on your way.
00:33:48.82\00:33:50.93
Talk about that, I mean,
'cause these bulbs are just...
00:33:50.96\00:33:52.43
Right.
00:33:52.46\00:33:53.80
It just feels like
everything's pointing me
00:33:53.83\00:33:55.36
in the same way, right?
00:33:55.40\00:33:57.57
I mean, I've seen the
rich biblical foundations,
00:33:57.60\00:34:01.04
I've seen, the
proof is in the pudding.
00:34:01.07\00:34:03.71
I'm seeing the community
00:34:03.74\00:34:05.74
and the intensity
of their discipleship.
00:34:05.77\00:34:09.94
Like, at a level I've just
never seen anywhere before.
00:34:09.98\00:34:14.22
I'm getting to know them up
close and personal right there,
00:34:14.25\00:34:17.39
they've been with me
through highs and lows.
00:34:17.42\00:34:21.19
And then I'm thinking about
what I want for my daughter,
00:34:21.22\00:34:24.03
and having this
experience at Camp Wakonda
00:34:24.06\00:34:27.30
and then the story
wouldn't be complete
00:34:27.33\00:34:28.86
without talking
about Pastor Sheldon Brian,
00:34:28.90\00:34:31.97
who's originally from Jamaica,
00:34:32.00\00:34:33.47
but he came in from
Salt Lake City Church
00:34:33.54\00:34:36.64
over to become the
pastor at Milwaukee Central.
00:34:36.71\00:34:40.31
And he's so good at outreach.
00:34:40.38\00:34:44.25
And this is just
sort of catching fire
00:34:44.28\00:34:46.31
a little bit with me.
00:34:46.35\00:34:47.82
I'm seeing him
reaching the young people
00:34:47.85\00:34:51.19
again in a new way
and visiting the sick
00:34:51.22\00:34:54.92
and he's out
there meeting everybody.
00:34:54.96\00:34:57.53
And I'm sitting there
as a psychologist going,
00:34:57.56\00:34:59.29
"I think there's something
00:34:59.33\00:35:00.70
that this community
has to offer the world
00:35:00.73\00:35:03.50
that this dying world,
this sort of lonely world."
00:35:03.57\00:35:07.54
And now we have this pastor
who's so good at outreach.
00:35:07.57\00:35:10.91
And he's sort of
saying the same thing.
00:35:10.94\00:35:12.34
He's able to dialog about
all the contemporary issues,
00:35:12.37\00:35:15.51
you know, in the
frame of biblical Adventism.
00:35:15.54\00:35:19.35
And I'm just
sort of attracted like
00:35:19.38\00:35:21.58
this is all coming together,
I really wanna be part of that.
00:35:21.62\00:35:25.85
And this is the kind of outreach
00:35:25.89\00:35:28.22
I really wanna be part of.
00:35:28.26\00:35:30.33
And so it's just
like multiple pointers
00:35:30.36\00:35:32.46
are just all sort of pointing me
00:35:32.49\00:35:35.23
to going all in and joining
00:35:35.26\00:35:38.00
and I was
baptized by Pastor Shelton.
00:35:38.03\00:35:39.43
Wow.
00:35:39.47\00:35:40.84
And you mentioned Jamaican,
00:35:40.87\00:35:42.20
my wife has a
Jamaican background,
00:35:42.24\00:35:43.57
born in England, but
her family's Jamaican.
00:35:43.61\00:35:45.47
And as I'm listening,
00:35:45.51\00:35:47.08
the picture that
just came to my mind,
00:35:47.11\00:35:48.84
no pun intended, is
that all along the way,
00:35:48.88\00:35:51.15
the Lord was brush stroking,
00:35:51.18\00:35:53.42
brush stroking a
painting of your journey.
00:35:53.45\00:35:57.75
And your baptism was
just the framing of it.
00:35:57.79\00:35:59.45
Right. Right.
00:35:59.49\00:36:00.86
'Cause it didn't just
get taken on that day,
00:36:00.89\00:36:02.29
it didn't just come to fruition,
00:36:02.32\00:36:03.73
it didn't just start happening.
00:36:03.76\00:36:05.63
You didn't just fall
in love with the Lord
00:36:05.66\00:36:07.20
on the day of baptism,
00:36:07.23\00:36:08.56
but you were part of
this consistent journey...
00:36:08.60\00:36:09.93
Absolutely.
00:36:09.96\00:36:11.30
A theological
journey, a relational journey,
00:36:11.33\00:36:13.57
a journey through
hard times, and tears,
00:36:13.64\00:36:15.34
the journey of loss and renewal,
00:36:15.37\00:36:17.04
a journey of new beginnings.
00:36:17.11\00:36:19.14
And your wife
Dee, talk about her,
00:36:19.17\00:36:21.41
in all of this she's patiently
watching this journey happen.
00:36:21.44\00:36:25.48
I gotta...
00:36:25.51\00:36:26.85
Give me some of her insights?
00:36:26.92\00:36:28.25
Well, again, I think
she, you know, I mean,
00:36:28.28\00:36:30.92
I think there's a
great truth in Adventism
00:36:30.99\00:36:34.69
about religious freedom.
00:36:34.72\00:36:36.06
Okay.
00:36:36.09\00:36:37.43
I think we're more into
that than almost anybody
00:36:37.46\00:36:39.39
and understanding that notion
of a free choice of worship.
00:36:39.43\00:36:43.57
And I felt like she
really gave me that all through,
00:36:43.60\00:36:47.07
you know, she said,
you know, come and see it.
00:36:47.14\00:36:51.11
And yet, there was a sense of,
00:36:51.14\00:36:53.41
hey, if you are needing to
be kind of where you're at,
00:36:53.48\00:36:58.88
which is sort of
close, but not quite a member,
00:36:58.91\00:37:02.02
if that's where you
need to be right now.
00:37:02.05\00:37:04.62
That's okay. But
I love you anyhow.
00:37:04.65\00:37:06.22
We'll keep walking
the journey, right?
00:37:06.25\00:37:08.06
And, of course,
00:37:08.09\00:37:09.42
we really worked
out that Darlene,
00:37:09.46\00:37:10.83
he was being raised
in the Adventist Church
00:37:10.86\00:37:13.19
which was important to her.
00:37:13.23\00:37:15.30
And so, you know,
00:37:15.33\00:37:16.67
she was very
comfortable all along.
00:37:16.70\00:37:19.67
And I think
trusting in the Holy Spirit,
00:37:19.70\00:37:21.60
you know, we knew that
our marriage was fruitful,
00:37:21.64\00:37:23.71
we knew that the
Lord was with us,
00:37:23.74\00:37:26.14
and would guide our path.
00:37:26.17\00:37:27.98
And so for her,
00:37:28.01\00:37:29.34
I don't think there
was a lot of anxiety,
00:37:29.38\00:37:30.75
I think she,
00:37:30.78\00:37:32.41
she always
believed we would end up
00:37:32.45\00:37:34.22
where we were meant to be.
00:37:34.25\00:37:36.35
That's a powerful.
00:37:36.38\00:37:37.72
I mean, that's a
powerful testimony
00:37:37.75\00:37:39.39
to the patience of a saint.
00:37:39.42\00:37:42.22
Okay. Can I use that prayer?
00:37:42.26\00:37:44.16
Because Revelation 14:12,
00:37:44.23\00:37:45.59
you know, here are they
keep the commandments of God.
00:37:45.63\00:37:49.46
Here's the
patience of the saints.
00:37:49.50\00:37:51.10
So commandment keeper
00:37:51.13\00:37:52.47
should also be a
patient person...
00:37:52.50\00:37:53.84
That's right. That's right.
00:37:53.87\00:37:55.20
Because the Lord is in
charge of that journey,
00:37:55.24\00:37:56.57
it just clicked, it
just happened right now.
00:37:56.60\00:37:59.34
And so you're seeing
the patience of a saint...
00:37:59.37\00:38:01.21
Right.
00:38:01.24\00:38:02.58
One who says,
00:38:02.61\00:38:04.48
"Bob, Hey, could you pick
up something when you come back
00:38:04.51\00:38:07.25
from the store for me?"
00:38:07.32\00:38:08.98
And hey, you know, by the way,
we're gonna church tomorrow.
00:38:09.02\00:38:11.05
That's right.
Tomorrow's the Sabbath.
00:38:11.09\00:38:12.95
Yeah, it is.
00:38:12.99\00:38:14.86
I'll get it, honey.
00:38:14.89\00:38:16.22
It'll kick in
sooner or later. Right.
00:38:16.26\00:38:17.63
And some day, and then
one day it just kicks in,
00:38:17.66\00:38:19.29
it locks in.
00:38:19.33\00:38:20.70
And then instead of saying,
00:38:20.73\00:38:22.06
Well, you know, I'm gonna go
to church on Sunday, Sabbath?
00:38:22.10\00:38:26.57
Did you have that
kind of experience?
00:38:26.60\00:38:27.94
Oh, yeah.
00:38:27.97\00:38:29.30
I mean, I think it
was important to Dee,
00:38:29.34\00:38:30.81
of course, that, you know,
Friday is a day of preparation.
00:38:30.84\00:38:33.71
And I mean, it's bigger than,
00:38:33.78\00:38:35.44
you know, just a
small portion of the day.
00:38:35.48\00:38:37.28
And so our family
got into those rituals,
00:38:37.35\00:38:39.88
and, of course, it's
addictive in a good sense.
00:38:39.91\00:38:43.69
You know, it becomes
so attractive to begin,
00:38:43.72\00:38:47.46
you know, again, she
didn't have to force it on me,
00:38:47.49\00:38:49.86
it just, I'm a very hard worker,
00:38:49.89\00:38:52.19
that's just part
of my personality
00:38:52.23\00:38:54.56
and it became
attractive to me to look forward
00:38:54.60\00:38:58.50
to being able to
step away from all of that
00:38:58.53\00:39:01.24
and slow things down
00:39:01.27\00:39:02.60
and really just, you
know, be with the Lord
00:39:02.64\00:39:04.67
and be with the community.
00:39:04.71\00:39:06.04
So I think she
knew what she was doing.
00:39:06.07\00:39:09.41
And just sort of let
it be attractive to me.
00:39:09.44\00:39:13.55
And it worked.
00:39:13.62\00:39:14.95
And, you know,
00:39:14.98\00:39:16.32
you bring out a point
that so often overlooked.
00:39:16.35\00:39:18.05
A lot of times
people think that,
00:39:18.09\00:39:19.92
you know, we just go
to church on Saturday.
00:39:19.95\00:39:22.72
But the whole rest aspect
of the Sabbath is something
00:39:22.76\00:39:25.39
that if you look at
the Jewish practice,
00:39:25.43\00:39:27.93
even among those
who didn't accept Jesus,
00:39:27.96\00:39:32.73
when they looked at the Sabbath,
00:39:32.77\00:39:34.14
it was a preparation
that started midweek,
00:39:34.17\00:39:36.60
they knew that
Friday was coming,
00:39:36.64\00:39:37.97
they knew that
this time is coming.
00:39:38.01\00:39:39.97
And they started
getting their minds,
00:39:40.01\00:39:41.34
and their
practices, and their schedule,
00:39:41.38\00:39:42.71
and their shopping,
everything around that.
00:39:42.74\00:39:44.51
So that when the
sun set on Friday,
00:39:44.55\00:39:45.91
they were ready to
welcome the family into a new
00:39:45.95\00:39:49.45
I refer to as a
canopy of blessings.
00:39:49.48\00:39:51.05
Right.
00:39:51.09\00:39:52.42
And as a hard worker,
00:39:52.45\00:39:53.79
who, you know, the job you do
00:39:53.86\00:39:55.79
is not just
demanding physically,
00:39:55.82\00:39:57.93
but demanding psychologically,
00:39:57.96\00:40:00.23
and you're dealing
with people who really,
00:40:00.30\00:40:01.83
sometimes you could go
home and say to your wife,
00:40:01.86\00:40:03.26
"Dee, oh, today was a tough day,
00:40:03.30\00:40:05.30
I hadn't really,
had a tough day."
00:40:05.33\00:40:08.44
And then she says,
"Bob, we can relax."
00:40:08.47\00:40:10.74
Right. Sabbath is coming.
00:40:10.81\00:40:12.14
Shut it down.
00:40:12.17\00:40:13.51
And that's important.
00:40:13.54\00:40:14.88
Talk about that
because there's some Christians
00:40:14.91\00:40:16.24
that are in the
community of Christianity,
00:40:16.28\00:40:18.11
I'm not saying
Catholicism versus Adventism,
00:40:18.15\00:40:20.72
but in the Christian community,
just as a psychologist,
00:40:20.75\00:40:24.19
and as a one who discovered
and now embraced the Sabbath
00:40:24.22\00:40:27.49
and this whole
new walk with Christ.
00:40:27.56\00:40:31.36
Kind of communicate that,
00:40:31.39\00:40:32.73
there may be somebody watching
the program that would say,
00:40:32.76\00:40:35.86
"Well, I'm not Catholic,
and I'm not Adventist."
00:40:35.90\00:40:37.97
But what does the
Sabbath meant to you?
00:40:38.00\00:40:39.63
I mean, what is it done?
00:40:39.67\00:40:41.00
How does it transform your life?
00:40:41.04\00:40:42.37
Right.
00:40:42.40\00:40:43.74
Well, I think it's
one of those things.
00:40:43.81\00:40:45.64
I will frame it in
not just the individual,
00:40:45.67\00:40:48.31
but society search
right now, if I may.
00:40:48.34\00:40:51.58
I mean, there's so
many ironies right now
00:40:51.61\00:40:55.98
that about,
00:40:56.02\00:40:57.89
everybody's
looking for these answers.
00:40:57.92\00:41:00.79
And we're sitting here
and we've got the medicine,
00:41:00.86\00:41:04.03
but somehow
making that connection,
00:41:04.06\00:41:05.96
I mean, that's what I
see as part of my mission
00:41:05.99\00:41:08.80
as a Family
Ministry coordinator.
00:41:08.83\00:41:10.37
We have so much medicine
for individuals and families.
00:41:10.40\00:41:14.14
And the Sabbath would be
00:41:14.17\00:41:15.50
one of those medicines
God has provided, right?
00:41:15.54\00:41:18.17
I mean, so there's just
so many ironies, Pastor.
00:41:18.21\00:41:20.51
So there are psychologists,
00:41:20.58\00:41:22.64
literally writing articles
today that sound like this.
00:41:22.68\00:41:26.72
You know, if only
we could find a way
00:41:26.75\00:41:29.42
to get these families off
of their phones and screens,
00:41:29.45\00:41:33.89
and actually spend time,
00:41:33.96\00:41:36.42
if they would
just pick some time
00:41:36.46\00:41:38.49
that they would spend together,
00:41:38.53\00:41:40.63
interacting with each other
00:41:40.70\00:41:42.60
that would be so good
for their mental health.
00:41:42.63\00:41:44.63
And I'm sitting there going,
00:41:44.67\00:41:46.00
hello, we have
that, the Sabbath, right?
00:41:46.03\00:41:48.00
That's right.
00:41:48.04\00:41:49.37
I mean, you see
the irony in that,
00:41:49.40\00:41:50.74
that people are saying, "Where?
00:41:50.81\00:41:52.14
What structure, what
wisdom could make this happen?"
00:41:52.17\00:41:55.11
And here, it's ancient
wisdom sitting right here.
00:41:55.14\00:41:59.78
Right?
00:41:59.81\00:42:01.15
I mean, that's just one example
of what we have to offer.
00:42:01.18\00:42:07.59
That is just a
healing, kind of balm, right?
00:42:07.66\00:42:10.93
Or, we're
similarly we sort of have,
00:42:10.96\00:42:14.00
we've got psychologists saying,
00:42:14.03\00:42:15.36
"Oh, this is becoming
an addictive society."
00:42:15.40\00:42:17.47
You know, everybody's
addicted to alcohol, or drugs,
00:42:17.50\00:42:21.00
or pornography, or something,
00:42:21.04\00:42:23.24
you know, if only we could
have some communities of support
00:42:23.27\00:42:25.81
to get people out of this,
00:42:25.84\00:42:27.18
where that's not the
norm and where there's,
00:42:27.21\00:42:29.01
you know, where there's sort
of a different way of coping,
00:42:29.04\00:42:31.18
and I'm sitting there thinking,
hey, the Adventist Church,
00:42:31.21\00:42:35.25
you know,
communities that by and large,
00:42:35.28\00:42:38.42
you can trust that
peer group for your kids,
00:42:38.45\00:42:41.82
there's gonna be
some strong norms against,
00:42:41.86\00:42:43.29
you know,
addiction is the answer.
00:42:43.32\00:42:45.29
Amen. Right?
00:42:45.33\00:42:46.70
So we sort of have these things.
00:42:46.73\00:42:48.30
And it is a real challenge
00:42:48.33\00:42:50.77
of how do we bridge that gap,
00:42:50.80\00:42:55.67
and help people to take a look
00:42:55.70\00:42:58.67
and experience
00:42:58.71\00:43:00.41
some of that
great, great medicine
00:43:00.48\00:43:03.48
that we have to offer.
00:43:03.55\00:43:05.25
That I love that
evangelistic approach
00:43:05.28\00:43:07.75
because you just,
00:43:07.78\00:43:10.59
from a professional
perspective, as a psychologist,
00:43:10.62\00:43:13.12
from a Christian perspective,
00:43:13.15\00:43:15.92
as one whose journey is rich,
00:43:15.96\00:43:17.93
and from an
experiential perspective,
00:43:17.96\00:43:20.50
you've pulled
together, the key components,
00:43:20.53\00:43:25.03
and what our
world is in need of,
00:43:25.07\00:43:27.44
rest,
00:43:27.47\00:43:28.80
something our generation
has forgotten how to do rest,
00:43:28.84\00:43:31.51
and we are
continually connected,
00:43:31.54\00:43:33.58
24/7, you can
watch television anytime,
00:43:33.61\00:43:36.14
anywhere, anyhow, on any device,
00:43:36.18\00:43:38.05
your phone included,
00:43:38.08\00:43:39.81
and the world
had kept us in a...
00:43:39.85\00:43:43.15
Let me use this phrase, in
a dopamine flooded society.
00:43:43.18\00:43:46.42
Exactly, exactly.
00:43:46.45\00:43:48.22
You know, and it's not working.
00:43:48.26\00:43:50.13
I mean, you can
look at research.
00:43:50.16\00:43:53.09
There's a book called iGen
00:43:53.13\00:43:54.46
about the generation
coming after the millennials
00:43:54.50\00:43:57.40
and some studies of
their mental health.
00:43:57.47\00:43:59.50
And this book points out
00:43:59.53\00:44:00.97
there's a literal epidemic
of depression and anxiety
00:44:01.00\00:44:05.74
among children and
teens, college freshmen.
00:44:05.77\00:44:09.88
There been surveys
done year after year,
00:44:09.91\00:44:11.75
for 50 years of
college freshmen.
00:44:11.78\00:44:13.72
And college
freshmen are reporting
00:44:13.75\00:44:15.82
with the highest level
of mental health symptoms
00:44:15.85\00:44:18.15
ever in history to
their freshman year.
00:44:18.19\00:44:20.46
They're already
flooding the counseling center
00:44:20.49\00:44:22.06
before they've taken,
00:44:22.09\00:44:23.43
you know, half of a
semester of classes.
00:44:23.46\00:44:24.99
Wow.
00:44:25.03\00:44:26.36
And this book
points out a strong link
00:44:26.39\00:44:28.60
to the social media addiction
00:44:28.63\00:44:30.87
and how that causes
depression and anxiety.
00:44:30.90\00:44:33.84
In the same book,
00:44:33.87\00:44:35.20
they find one of the
most robust protective factors
00:44:35.24\00:44:39.01
against being depressed
and anxious as a child or teen
00:44:39.04\00:44:43.45
involvement in
church activities.
00:44:43.48\00:44:44.81
Wow!
00:44:44.85\00:44:46.18
So, you know, again,
00:44:46.21\00:44:47.55
this is like
hiding in plain sight.
00:44:47.62\00:44:48.95
I like that. It's
hiding in plain sight.
00:44:48.98\00:44:50.89
And how do we
get that message out?
00:44:50.92\00:44:54.16
That what we
have is eternal wisdom
00:44:54.19\00:44:56.59
about how people are
meant to connect and live.
00:44:56.62\00:45:00.63
Here's another one.
00:45:00.70\00:45:02.30
There's a sort
of growing movement
00:45:02.33\00:45:04.30
about like, get out
in the natural world.
00:45:04.33\00:45:07.77
There are studies that show
that taking a walk in the woods
00:45:07.80\00:45:10.41
raises your mood, you know,
00:45:10.44\00:45:11.87
and so psychologists are saying,
00:45:11.91\00:45:13.24
maybe we could
invent nature therapy,
00:45:13.27\00:45:15.48
you know, where you
go walk in the woods,
00:45:15.51\00:45:16.88
and I'm thinking,
00:45:16.95\00:45:18.28
"Okay, how much of
our Sabbath activities
00:45:18.31\00:45:21.92
are all about typically,
getting out in the creation,
00:45:21.95\00:45:26.15
experience the
Creator's creation,
00:45:26.19\00:45:28.42
study His creation,
spend time in creation?"
00:45:28.46\00:45:32.03
You see the irony here,
00:45:32.06\00:45:33.53
we're looking for these answers.
00:45:33.60\00:45:34.93
We have these answers,
00:45:34.96\00:45:36.30
we have to find ways
00:45:36.33\00:45:37.67
to make sure we're getting
that information out there.
00:45:37.70\00:45:40.04
That isn't a
beautifully attractive way.
00:45:40.07\00:45:42.70
I mean, as a pastor,
00:45:42.74\00:45:45.51
I have all these
lights going off.
00:45:45.54\00:45:47.58
And in ways of
presenting this rich community
00:45:47.61\00:45:50.08
of Adventist Christianity,
00:45:50.15\00:45:52.41
in a world that is
really being drained
00:45:52.45\00:45:54.42
looking for
something that is right there.
00:45:54.45\00:45:58.12
It's like the guy on
the roof of his house,
00:45:58.15\00:45:59.79
and the water is rising,
and a car comes in heavy rains.
00:45:59.82\00:46:04.03
And he says, I'm waiting
for somebody to deliver me
00:46:04.06\00:46:05.66
and then the boat
comes and he's drowning.
00:46:05.69\00:46:09.23
Right. Right.
00:46:09.26\00:46:10.60
And he's missing what's right
there being presented to him.
00:46:10.67\00:46:13.07
Yeah.
00:46:13.10\00:46:14.44
And that's been your experience.
00:46:14.47\00:46:15.84
Absolutely.
00:46:15.87\00:46:17.21
I think that,
00:46:17.24\00:46:18.71
you know, there's so
much research on this,
00:46:18.74\00:46:22.11
I could go on a long time.
00:46:22.14\00:46:23.48
I mean, that marriages,
00:46:23.55\00:46:25.71
you know, if couples view
the marriage bond as sacred,
00:46:25.75\00:46:28.72
not just a human contract,
00:46:28.75\00:46:30.39
their marital
satisfaction is greater.
00:46:30.42\00:46:32.79
If they view
sexuality is sacred,
00:46:32.82\00:46:34.89
their sexual
satisfaction is greater.
00:46:34.92\00:46:37.93
If they are men
who attend church,
00:46:37.96\00:46:41.23
spend more, their
free time with their kids
00:46:41.26\00:46:43.67
instead of in solitary pursuits.
00:46:43.70\00:46:45.40
I mean, we could go on
and on about the influence
00:46:45.43\00:46:48.57
of vibrant community,
00:46:48.60\00:46:50.34
like the Adventist Church
and the way that it supports
00:46:50.41\00:46:54.64
so much of where God wants
us to be in healthy families.
00:46:54.68\00:46:58.38
Wow.
00:46:58.41\00:46:59.75
And that's part of the
message I want to get out.
00:46:59.78\00:47:01.12
Yeah, that's what
you do on a daily basis.
00:47:01.15\00:47:05.45
Let's toast it down to
the ministry of your church.
00:47:05.49\00:47:08.82
What you do during the week?
00:47:08.86\00:47:10.86
So my paid job is a
clinical psychologist,
00:47:10.93\00:47:15.16
I see basically patients,
00:47:15.20\00:47:17.27
you know, as well as
help run the business
00:47:17.30\00:47:19.73
'cause
somebody's got to do that.
00:47:19.77\00:47:22.47
And then my primary
ministry at Milwaukee Central,
00:47:22.50\00:47:25.17
along with Dee is
00:47:25.21\00:47:26.54
we're Family
Ministry coordinators.
00:47:26.57\00:47:28.04
So over the
last couple of years,
00:47:28.08\00:47:30.85
we've been doing
some parenting seminars,
00:47:30.88\00:47:33.15
we've done marriage seminar,
00:47:33.18\00:47:35.52
we've done some social events,
00:47:35.55\00:47:37.19
we help cosponsor the
financial literacy program.
00:47:37.22\00:47:40.96
And, of course,
00:47:40.99\00:47:42.32
part of what
we're doing with that
00:47:42.36\00:47:43.69
is we're trying
to let people know
00:47:43.73\00:47:45.06
that we care about
what they care about,
00:47:45.09\00:47:47.10
you know, we understand that.
00:47:47.13\00:47:49.63
You know, Ellen White said,
the health message is like...
00:47:49.66\00:47:53.20
If Ellen White
said it's a wedge,
00:47:53.23\00:47:55.30
that people will say,
00:47:55.34\00:47:56.71
"Well, why do these
people live in so long?"
00:47:56.74\00:47:59.04
You know, it's an
interesting thing,
00:47:59.07\00:48:01.11
I think the
mental health message
00:48:01.14\00:48:03.01
could be the even
more powerful wedge today
00:48:03.04\00:48:05.91
for people to stand up and say,
what's up with those families.
00:48:05.95\00:48:09.28
You know, they look like
00:48:09.32\00:48:10.99
their kids really
have good self-control,
00:48:11.02\00:48:14.29
and are not in a completely
depressed state all the time,
00:48:14.32\00:48:18.96
or, you know, aren't
getting addicted to drugs?
00:48:18.99\00:48:22.13
What's going on with that?
00:48:22.16\00:48:24.33
And so we've begun
trying to do these programs
00:48:24.37\00:48:26.84
and publicize
them in the community.
00:48:26.87\00:48:29.27
So that maybe somebody will come
00:48:29.30\00:48:31.31
who's interested in
improving their parenting
00:48:31.34\00:48:33.71
and sort of find out
00:48:33.78\00:48:35.48
some of the real
power behind our parenting,
00:48:35.51\00:48:39.11
you know, which is Jesus.
00:48:39.15\00:48:40.52
That's, I mean, this
is so informative to me,
00:48:40.55\00:48:43.49
it's more than
just the journey of,
00:48:43.52\00:48:45.89
you know, where you've
come from theologically,
00:48:45.92\00:48:48.06
but just the, now the
other side of this coin,
00:48:48.09\00:48:50.83
the answer to a society
00:48:50.86\00:48:52.49
that's actually
melting around us,
00:48:52.53\00:48:55.70
driven by the
pursuit of happiness,
00:48:55.73\00:48:58.50
but not knowing that happiness
doesn't have to be pursued.
00:48:58.53\00:49:01.74
It's right here
to be experienced.
00:49:01.77\00:49:03.10
Exactly, exactly.
00:49:03.14\00:49:04.47
That's really well said,
00:49:04.51\00:49:05.84
and there's sort of
different types of happiness.
00:49:05.87\00:49:07.84
Right.
00:49:07.88\00:49:09.21
There's sort of, I mean,
there's hedonism, which is,
00:49:09.24\00:49:12.05
you know, avoidance of pain...
00:49:12.08\00:49:13.42
Right.
00:49:13.45\00:49:14.78
And seeking constant pleasure
00:49:14.82\00:49:16.15
and studies actually
show that doesn't work.
00:49:16.18\00:49:19.32
You know, that's
where addiction comes in,
00:49:19.35\00:49:20.69
you need a bigger dose
just to get the same effect
00:49:20.76\00:49:22.76
and ultimately
that runs out of gas.
00:49:22.79\00:49:24.13
Anhedonia.
00:49:24.16\00:49:25.49
Whereas, right, anhedonia,
00:49:25.53\00:49:26.90
whereas people who seek
meaning and fulfillment,
00:49:26.93\00:49:29.80
which is a deeper
kind of happiness, right?
00:49:29.83\00:49:31.90
And, of course, the
gospel is our meaning.
00:49:31.93\00:49:34.14
It's easy to see if you look in,
00:49:34.17\00:49:36.47
the battle is with
the sin in yourself.
00:49:36.50\00:49:39.07
It's so easy to see,
that's what we're here for.
00:49:39.11\00:49:42.68
And grace is what
allows you to win that battle,
00:49:42.71\00:49:45.68
it's just, if you
really reflect on it,
00:49:45.71\00:49:47.78
it's just easy to see,
that's what we're here for.
00:49:47.82\00:49:50.72
And when people
realize what we're here for.
00:49:50.79\00:49:53.96
And they're seeking
00:49:53.99\00:49:55.32
that
fulfillment of that mission,
00:49:55.36\00:49:58.06
then they are happy
as a byproduct of knowing
00:49:58.09\00:50:02.83
that they're aligned
with what God wants them to do
00:50:02.86\00:50:05.53
and they know they're
working towards something
00:50:05.57\00:50:07.07
that's eternally good.
00:50:07.14\00:50:09.37
And so that is,
00:50:09.40\00:50:10.74
it is the secret to
happiness in a sense.
00:50:10.81\00:50:12.91
I'm gonna use an odd comparison,
00:50:12.94\00:50:14.94
you know, have you heard
of The Cheesecake Factory?
00:50:14.98\00:50:17.28
Yes. Okay.
00:50:17.35\00:50:18.68
People like cheesecake
because it tastes good.
00:50:18.71\00:50:21.88
You don't have to
scream at somebody and say,
00:50:21.92\00:50:24.65
"Please eat this cheesecake."
00:50:24.69\00:50:27.49
It's not heard so.
00:50:27.56\00:50:28.89
Once you taste it.
00:50:28.92\00:50:30.26
Oh, I got to get a
slice of cheesecake.
00:50:30.29\00:50:31.63
I'm in town where
there's cheesecake factory
00:50:31.66\00:50:32.99
somewhere by.
00:50:33.03\00:50:34.36
Yeah.
00:50:34.40\00:50:35.73
The Lord has put together,
excuse my illustration,
00:50:35.76\00:50:38.77
a spiritual Cheesecake Factory,
00:50:38.80\00:50:41.74
where if you taste,
00:50:41.77\00:50:44.61
you'll see that
the Lord is good.
00:50:44.64\00:50:46.88
And I say this
00:50:46.91\00:50:48.24
not in the exclusion
of other communities,
00:50:48.28\00:50:50.45
but I'm an Adventist
pastor for that very reason.
00:50:50.48\00:50:53.42
I saw different communities,
Baptist, Nazarene, Catholic,
00:50:53.45\00:50:58.79
Pentecostal,
00:50:58.82\00:51:00.16
I looked at that as
a young man and see,
00:51:00.19\00:51:01.52
you cannot live this
life and still be saved.
00:51:01.56\00:51:04.66
And I came to
discover that, wow.
00:51:04.69\00:51:07.50
While there are good things
in each of those communities,
00:51:07.53\00:51:09.80
this is the more
complete package.
00:51:09.83\00:51:11.93
And we believe,
00:51:11.97\00:51:13.74
as John 10:16 says,
00:51:13.77\00:51:15.10
"Other sheep the Lord has
that are not of this fold."
00:51:15.14\00:51:16.81
Right.
00:51:16.84\00:51:18.17
But when you look and you say,
00:51:18.21\00:51:19.54
"Well, I'm
looking for the cleanest,
00:51:19.57\00:51:22.18
most complete
picture of the shepherd,
00:51:22.21\00:51:23.65
and all he has to offer,"
00:51:23.68\00:51:25.38
and is found here
in this community.
00:51:25.41\00:51:27.32
And I wanna give
people an opportunity
00:51:27.35\00:51:29.32
to get in touch with you
00:51:29.35\00:51:31.22
to find out how they
could invite you, and your wife,
00:51:31.25\00:51:33.96
and your daughter
to come and benefit
00:51:33.99\00:51:37.06
if they're in the Milwaukee area
00:51:37.13\00:51:38.46
to come to your church
and visit your community.
00:51:38.49\00:51:39.83
Sure.
00:51:39.86\00:51:41.20
But if you can invite,
00:51:41.23\00:51:42.56
if you could be invited to come
00:51:42.60\00:51:43.93
and maybe share
some of these things
00:51:43.97\00:51:45.30
in other communities.
00:51:45.33\00:51:46.67
And so if you're
listening on the radio,
00:51:46.70\00:51:48.04
and you've been blessed by this,
00:51:48.07\00:51:49.40
and I have been
blessed by Dr. Nohr,
00:51:49.44\00:51:52.77
Dr. Robert Nohr's
insight and experience.
00:51:52.81\00:51:55.74
Here's the
information that you need
00:51:55.78\00:51:57.15
to be able to get
in touch with him,
00:51:57.18\00:51:58.71
to contact him,
00:51:58.75\00:52:00.12
to invite him to your community,
00:52:00.15\00:52:01.48
and to find out that
the spiritual journey
00:52:01.52\00:52:04.29
has so many components to it,
00:52:04.32\00:52:06.69
that it also contains the
answers to many of the ills
00:52:06.76\00:52:10.63
of our world today,
00:52:10.66\00:52:11.99
both young and old.
00:52:12.03\00:52:14.00
Whether you're a baby
boomer, a Gen X, a millennial,
00:52:14.03\00:52:17.70
the answer comes
00:52:17.73\00:52:19.07
in the complete
picture of Christ.
00:52:19.10\00:52:20.87
If you want to
know more about that.
00:52:20.94\00:52:22.60
Here is the information
that you need to get in touch
00:52:22.64\00:52:24.97
with Dr. Nohr.
00:52:25.01\00:52:28.24
If you're interested in inviting
00:52:28.28\00:52:29.61
Dr. Robert Nohr and his family,
00:52:29.64\00:52:31.75
to share his testimony
on how God led his life
00:52:31.78\00:52:34.25
to a new beginning.
00:52:34.32\00:52:35.65
You can contact him
00:52:35.68\00:52:37.02
at Milwaukee Central SDA Church,
00:52:37.05\00:52:39.75
2229 North Terrace Avenue,
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202.
00:52:39.79\00:52:46.23
Again, that's Milwaukee Central
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:52:46.26\00:52:50.10
2229 North Terrace Avenue,
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202,
00:52:50.17\00:52:56.54
or you can email
him at Rnohr@me.com.
00:52:56.57\00:53:02.28
Again, that's Rnohr@me.com.
00:53:02.31\00:53:07.22