I want to spend my life
00:00:01.60\00:00:06.80
Mending broken people
00:00:07.40\00:00:12.27
I want to spend my life
00:00:12.34\00:00:17.91
Removing pain
00:00:18.65\00:00:23.18
Lord, let my words
00:00:23.82\00:00:28.76
Heal a heart that hurts
00:00:30.03\00:00:33.96
I want to spend my life
00:00:34.46\00:00:39.37
Mending broken people
00:00:40.30\00:00:44.74
I want to spend my life
00:00:45.67\00:00:50.55
Mending broken people
00:00:51.28\00:00:56.05
- Hello, friends.
Welcome to 3ABN Today. My name
00:01:11.60\00:01:14.37
is John Lomacang,
and I have the best woman
00:01:14.40\00:01:17.44
in the world right
to my left. [laughter]
00:01:17.51\00:01:20.14
- I'm Angela Lomacang.
It's our pleasure to be
00:01:20.21\00:01:23.38
in your homes today...
and we're excited about
00:01:23.45\00:01:25.78
the program; aren't
we, honey? - That's right.
00:01:25.85\00:01:27.65
We're talking about
journey. Now, everyone's
00:01:27.68\00:01:30.79
been on a journey, but
this is not just a regular
00:01:30.82\00:01:33.79
journey; this is
about a journey in ministry.
00:01:33.86\00:01:36.46
How does God take
people from where He finds them
00:01:36.52\00:01:39.69
to where they are
today? And we have a wonderful
00:01:39.76\00:01:42.36
couple here today
that's going to share that.
00:01:42.43\00:01:44.47
Honey, we've talked
with them before we did a
00:01:44.57\00:01:46.43
radio interview
with them before. - Yeah,
00:01:46.53\00:01:48.34
absolutely! With
Strong Tower Radio (I work for
00:01:48.40\00:01:51.97
3ABN Radio;
Strong Tower Radio is in
00:01:52.04\00:01:54.18
Michigan). They cover
almost all of Michigan-
00:01:54.24\00:01:58.61
all of Michigan with
the three angels' messages.
00:01:58.68\00:02:01.18
This couple- we were
at Michigan camp meeting.
00:02:01.25\00:02:05.35
We interviewed them
on radio-we had a little
00:02:05.42\00:02:08.86
remote thing going
on there-and I have a
00:02:08.92\00:02:11.66
program called Crossroads
on 3ABN Radio, and I was
00:02:11.69\00:02:15.46
able to... We
had- their testimony is
00:02:15.53\00:02:18.13
amazing. - Right. -
From, what? Nondenominational
00:02:18.20\00:02:22.84
pastor- what's the
title? Nondenominational pastor
00:02:22.90\00:02:26.41
to Adventist
pastor. - That's right. And
00:02:26.47\00:02:29.08
you know, there
might be a pastor watching
00:02:29.18\00:02:31.51
this program today
of a church that's not a
00:02:31.58\00:02:33.72
Seventh-day
Adventist Church. - Yes! - And
00:02:33.78\00:02:35.72
while we believe that
the Lord has His people
00:02:35.78\00:02:37.39
in every denomination,
we also believe that
00:02:37.45\00:02:39.55
the Lord has a
message for this end time-a
00:02:39.65\00:02:41.72
three-angels'
messages that is so pertinent
00:02:41.79\00:02:44.63
that He finds us
where we are, but He doesn't
00:02:44.69\00:02:47.80
leave us where He finds
us. You know, John 16:13,
00:02:47.86\00:02:50.97
the Bible says,
"The Spirit of truth will
00:02:51.00\00:02:53.23
lead us and guide
us into all truth," and
00:02:53.30\00:02:55.64
we believe firmly
that the Bible is a book of
00:02:55.70\00:02:58.11
truth. While some
individuals have learned
00:02:58.17\00:03:00.68
certain portions of
it, we believe that God is
00:03:00.78\00:03:03.08
leading and guiding into
all truth. And our couple
00:03:03.14\00:03:05.75
today, Pastor
Thompson and his wife Sabrina-
00:03:05.81\00:03:08.05
we'll introduce them
after the music. They
00:03:08.08\00:03:11.15
have a tremendous testimony.
So, don't go away-whatever
00:03:11.25\00:03:14.06
your journey,
whether it's ministry or not-
00:03:14.16\00:03:16.12
this is a program
you don't want to miss.
00:03:16.19\00:03:18.09
What do we have
for music today, honey?
00:03:18.16\00:03:19.76
- We have a wonderful
lady. Her name is Mary
00:03:19.86\00:03:22.80
Grace, and the title
is, "Lord, Be Glorified."
00:03:22.86\00:03:26.87
- Thank you so much
for that song, Mary. Isn't
00:06:24.71\00:06:26.68
that wonderful? - She
is so gifted. Amazing what
00:06:26.75\00:06:30.65
you can do with
one hand and, what, an
00:06:30.72\00:06:33.82
arm? - Yeah. I'm
telling you, every time I see
00:06:33.89\00:06:35.62
her play, I always think
how lazy I am. I have two
00:06:35.69\00:06:38.53
? hands... - You're
not really lazy, honey.
00:06:38.63\00:06:40.26
- But that's her
gift, and I? altogether
00:06:40.33\00:06:42.16
- Yeah, exactly; that's
right. - But as I mentioned
00:06:42.20\00:06:43.63
at the top of the program,
we have an interview today
00:06:43.70\00:06:45.40
that's going to
really inspire you, so let's
00:06:45.47\00:06:47.67
go ahead and meet our
guests at this time. I'll
00:06:47.74\00:06:49.94
begin with Pastor Rod
Thompson. Good to have
00:06:50.04\00:06:51.87
you here. Rod, good to
see you again. - Good to
00:06:51.94\00:06:54.21
see you; thank you for
inviting us. - Yeah. My
00:06:54.28\00:06:57.35
wife and I had
an opportunity-and
00:06:57.45\00:06:58.88
we'll introduce your
wife in just a moment-
00:06:58.95\00:07:00.62
of interviewing
you... Where was it, again?
00:07:00.72\00:07:03.25
- Michigan. - Michigan...
- Camp meeting. - That's
00:07:03.32\00:07:05.85
right. It was
radio... Was it a radio...?
00:07:05.95\00:07:09.32
- Yeah, it was a
3ABN Radio-Strong Tower
00:07:09.36\00:07:11.99
Radio-interview in
Michigan, and we did
00:07:12.06\00:07:17.20
a little onsite thing
there. I have a program
00:07:17.30\00:07:19.83
called Crossroads, so
we were able to do this
00:07:19.93\00:07:22.30
for a Crossroads program.
This testimony is amazing.
00:07:22.37\00:07:28.74
He was a
Pentecostal minister- what-
00:07:28.81\00:07:31.98
nondenominational
minister. So, listener-
00:07:32.05\00:07:36.45
I'm always
saying- I shouldn't say
00:07:36.55\00:07:37.89
"listener," should
I? But those of you who
00:07:37.95\00:07:41.22
are watching and listening,
you are going to be blessed
00:07:41.32\00:07:43.89
by this program by Pastor...
Rodden? - Rod Thompson.
00:07:43.99\00:07:49.00
- And his beautiful
wife, Sabrina. - So,
00:07:49.06\00:07:53.60
tell us, I mean for
those who are meeting you for
00:07:53.70\00:07:55.94
the first time, give us
an overview who you are,
00:07:56.00\00:07:58.51
where you're from,
and what you do right now.
00:07:58.57\00:08:00.38
- We've been in the
Adventist church for
00:08:01.04\00:08:04.11
about 10 years now,
but actually have been a
00:08:05.15\00:08:08.18
pastor in the
Michigan conference for almost
00:08:08.22\00:08:11.49
5 years now. We are
currently at the Mt.
00:08:11.55\00:08:15.16
Pleasant and Midland
Seventh-day Adventist
00:08:15.26\00:08:17.19
Churches right in the
middle of the state for
00:08:17.26\00:08:19.93
about a year and a
half now. - Okay! Good to
00:08:20.00\00:08:22.63
have you here, and next
to you is your wife Sabrina.
00:08:22.70\00:08:24.63
Sabrina, give our audience
an overview of who you are,
00:08:25.63\00:08:28.57
what you do right
now, and where you're from.
00:08:28.64\00:08:30.41
- I am originally
from California - Southern
00:08:31.47\00:08:35.11
California - San
Diego. - Okay. - That's where
00:08:35.18\00:08:37.55
we moved from to move
to Michigan. I work with
00:08:37.61\00:08:42.62
Rod in the
ministry right now. - Okay.
00:08:42.68\00:08:45.75
Any children? - We have
four adult children, and
00:08:46.59\00:08:51.23
we're kind of spread
out We have- our closest
00:08:51.33\00:08:54.06
daughter is in
Michigan and our son-in-law and
00:08:54.13\00:08:58.53
six grandchildren
there, and then we have a
00:08:58.63\00:09:01.80
daughter in Georgia,
and one in California,
00:09:01.90\00:09:06.54
and our son is in Oklahoma.
- Wow. - So, we're pretty
00:09:06.64\00:09:09.54
spread out, but we have a
total of 12 grandchildren.
00:09:09.61\00:09:11.78
- Ooh! - 12! - 12.
And just three of the
00:09:11.88\00:09:14.92
children. - Yeah.
The youngest has none,
00:09:14.98\00:09:17.19
so they've been busy.
[laughter] - Well, you
00:09:17.29\00:09:21.12
have a lot of
people to take care of you
00:09:21.19\00:09:22.52
when life comes
around and says, "Hey!" - We
00:09:22.56\00:09:25.33
hope so. - Well,
hey, start us off at the
00:09:25.39\00:09:28.63
beginning, because we
talked about this- and
00:09:28.70\00:09:30.60
honey, we both have a
lot of questions we're
00:09:30.67\00:09:33.03
going to try to get
in today...but your story
00:09:33.07\00:09:34.87
is amazing. Let's
go back before you got
00:09:34.90\00:09:39.04
into ministry. Let's
go back to, maybe, how
00:09:39.11\00:09:41.84
you both met.
Let's maybe start there.
00:09:41.94\00:09:44.35
- Well, we... If we
were going to start, for me,
00:09:44.45\00:09:49.55
my story started
when I was born. - Okay!
00:09:49.62\00:09:53.32
- I didn't know it,
but my mother loves the
00:09:53.42\00:09:59.26
Lord with all of her
heart, mind, soul, and
00:09:59.33\00:10:01.26
body, and my dad
loved my mom. He was coming
00:10:01.36\00:10:05.07
to church with her. She
was raised in a Lutheran
00:10:05.17\00:10:07.70
church. My mom and I
were in the hospital.
00:10:07.80\00:10:15.71
I was born, and
three days later, we were
00:10:15.81\00:10:18.78
still in the
hospital, not that there was a
00:10:18.95\00:10:20.75
problem; but back then,
they allowed the mothers
00:10:20.85\00:10:23.28
a little more time.
But while my mother and I
00:10:23.35\00:10:26.15
were in the hospital,
my dad was in an ambulance
00:10:26.25\00:10:28.66
with my sister on
the way to the University
00:10:28.76\00:10:32.63
of Michigan
Hospital and she died on the
00:10:32.69\00:10:34.96
way. - Oh... - And when
that happens as a parent,
00:10:35.00\00:10:39.50
there's only two ways
you can go: you either
00:10:39.60\00:10:43.30
trust the Lord or
you push away, and that's
00:10:43.41\00:10:46.37
what happened to my
parents. My dad became
00:10:46.47\00:10:50.48
very bitter and
very angry and said, "How
00:10:50.58\00:10:54.68
could a God of love take
away my little girl?" And
00:10:54.78\00:10:58.42
my mom trusted God that
He had a better plan than
00:10:58.52\00:11:00.89
she did and that
she would be able to see
00:11:00.99\00:11:03.93
that girl again one
day... but it divided my family.
00:11:04.06\00:11:07.73
So, I grew up in
a house divided. But
00:11:07.83\00:11:10.63
at the age of 15,
I was in the church.
00:11:10.73\00:11:18.41
My dad never went to
church with us, but he
00:11:18.51\00:11:20.78
made us go with my mom,
and we're going to church
00:11:20.88\00:11:23.45
three days a week.
Outwardly, I was doing
00:11:23.51\00:11:28.25
everything right; but
inwardly, I didn't know
00:11:28.35\00:11:33.22
God. So, when I was 15
years old, the Lord spoke
00:11:33.32\00:11:41.16
to me one day-a
man's voice. Whether it was
00:11:41.26\00:11:45.17
inside of my head or
out, I don't know, but
00:11:45.27\00:11:47.30
I heard this voice
saying, "I want you
00:11:47.40\00:11:49.00
to go to the
seminary." I didn't know where
00:11:49.10\00:11:55.51
this voice was
coming from, but I remember
00:11:55.61\00:11:57.71
hearing that voice
several times throughout
00:11:57.78\00:12:00.45
the day and saying
or thinking to myself,
00:12:00.55\00:12:04.59
"No, I don't want to
do that." I was already
00:12:04.69\00:12:09.29
experimenting with drugs
and alcohol; I was looking
00:12:09.36\00:12:13.60
at my parents' lives;
my mother's life seemed
00:12:13.66\00:12:16.36
very rigid and
boring. My dad's was... He was
00:12:16.46\00:12:20.84
a drinker, his seemed
very exciting, and I was
00:12:20.90\00:12:25.17
already experimenting
with those things... But
00:12:25.24\00:12:28.18
I just thought to myself-
I thought I knew-"Where's
00:12:28.28\00:12:35.28
this coming from?
It must be coming from
00:12:35.38\00:12:37.59
God," but I wasn't
sure, and I just said, "No,
00:12:37.65\00:12:41.06
I don't want to do
that." Well, the next
00:12:41.12\00:12:43.39
morning, I woke up
and I heard that voice
00:12:43.49\00:12:44.83
again several
times throughout the day,
00:12:44.89\00:12:46.90
same thing. "I
want you to go to the
00:12:47.00\00:12:48.33
seminary." Of course,
I knew what that meant.
00:12:48.36\00:12:51.03
"I want you to be
a pastor." The second
00:12:51.13\00:12:54.14
day, I said aloud, "I
don't want to do that."
00:12:54.27\00:12:57.34
And then, I heard that
voice again a third day.
00:12:57.44\00:13:00.38
All day long I
heard that voice, and by
00:13:00.44\00:13:04.95
the end of the day,
literally, I thought
00:13:05.05\00:13:07.08
I was going
crazy, 'cause I'm hearing
00:13:07.15\00:13:09.35
voices! Am I schizophrenic?
What's going on? But at the
00:13:09.42\00:13:14.92
end of the day, I literally
yelled out loud, "No, I don't
00:13:15.02\00:13:20.96
want to do that!
I want to party and
00:13:21.03\00:13:24.03
have fun with my
friends! I don't want to ruin my
00:13:24.13\00:13:26.20
life!" And I never
heard that voice again for 20
00:13:26.33\00:13:31.64
years. I left home
at 18, I went into the
00:13:31.74\00:13:36.64
military... That's
not a good environment
00:13:36.75\00:13:39.98
for spiritual
thinking. There are people that
00:13:40.05\00:13:44.09
do it, but it pulled
me even further away.
00:13:44.19\00:13:47.56
I actually got
married at age of 19 and had
00:13:51.06\00:14:00.27
some children with the
woman that I was married
00:14:00.40\00:14:03.44
to. That was really a
struggle for me; it was
00:14:03.51\00:14:06.84
difficult, and we
ended up divorcing. But now,
00:14:06.91\00:14:10.61
my children are- I
have two daughters, and they
00:14:10.68\00:14:15.28
were 7 and 8 years
old, and I had custody of
00:14:15.35\00:14:21.76
them-something
that wasn't very popular
00:14:21.86\00:14:25.89
back then. It wasn't
very common, but there were
00:14:25.99\00:14:30.40
extenuating circumstances
with my ex-wife, and I had
00:14:30.47\00:14:33.70
custody of them. I
gotta tell you- that's the
00:14:33.77\00:14:36.57
hardest thing that I have
ever done is to be a single
00:14:36.64\00:14:41.44
parent - trying to
be both mom and dad. My
00:14:41.51\00:14:45.95
daughters are going
to school; and one day,
00:14:46.05\00:14:48.52
my oldest daughter
comes home and says
00:14:48.58\00:14:51.79
that she wants to spend
a night with her friend.
00:14:51.85\00:14:55.92
I said to her,
"Well, you've got to give me
00:14:56.06\00:14:58.96
some contact information.
I've got to talk to her
00:14:59.03\00:15:00.80
parents and make
sure it's okay and make
00:15:00.90\00:15:03.16
arrangements to how we can
get you there and picked up
00:15:03.26\00:15:06.77
and all of that. So,
a couple days later, she
00:15:06.84\00:15:10.04
comes home with this
phone number, I called...
00:15:10.11\00:15:12.47
and it was Sabrina. So,
she has a daughter and a son,
00:15:13.17\00:15:19.18
and it was her
daughter and my daughter that
00:15:19.28\00:15:21.02
were wanting to spend
the time together. - His
00:15:22.05\00:15:24.52
oldest and my youngest.
- So they were friends.
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.79
- They were friends!
- Yes. So, that's how
00:15:27.92\00:15:31.23
we met. - Through our
children. - Oh! So what
00:15:31.29\00:15:34.43
was the connection with
the wife- with you, Sabrina?
00:15:34.53\00:15:38.50
- Well, he called me
to have his daughter come
00:15:38.60\00:15:42.50
spend the night at
our house. I said, "Sure!"
00:15:42.60\00:15:43.94
So, I picked them
up from where they were
00:15:44.07\00:15:48.21
going after school,
and I brought her home with
00:15:48.28\00:15:50.95
me and my
children, and we had a great
00:15:51.05\00:15:53.92
time! And then, the
next day was Saturday
00:15:53.98\00:16:01.46
(this is before we
were Adventist), and they
00:16:01.59\00:16:04.39
wanted to know if
she could spend the night
00:16:04.49\00:16:06.80
again. I said,
"Well, that's okay with me,
00:16:06.90\00:16:08.50
but we've got to
talk to your dad." So, I
00:16:08.56\00:16:12.40
called- well, she called
and asked for permission.
00:16:12.50\00:16:18.31
I did tell, I told
him yes, that that was
00:16:18.41\00:16:20.31
okay with me. So, she
spent the night again.
00:16:20.38\00:16:22.44
So, the next day was
Sunday, and then they
00:16:22.54\00:16:25.91
came to me again
and she wanted to spend
00:16:26.01\00:16:28.28
the night again! I
said, "Well, you can't. It's
00:16:28.38\00:16:31.09
Sunday. You have
school tomorrow!" And then he
00:16:31.22\00:16:35.69
came and he picked
her up. - I had actually-
00:16:35.79\00:16:42.53
my two daughters and I
were living with another
00:16:44.87\00:16:47.90
guy that I worked
with in the military. I had
00:16:48.00\00:16:51.81
a boat, and we
were going to go to the
00:16:51.94\00:16:54.68
beach. We were going to
take the kids down there,
00:16:54.78\00:16:56.85
so I said, "Well,
we've got to go pick up my
00:16:56.95\00:17:01.58
daughter." So, we
stopped by there, and Sabrina
00:17:01.68\00:17:04.72
came outside and I
saw her, and it may have
00:17:04.82\00:17:09.46
been love at first
sight. [laughter] But I saw her,
00:17:09.52\00:17:13.33
and I knew by then in
our conversations that
00:17:13.46\00:17:16.46
she was also a
single parent. - Okay. - And
00:17:16.56\00:17:19.37
so I said to her,
"Why don't you and the kids
00:17:19.47\00:17:23.84
come with us?
We're going down to the
00:17:23.94\00:17:26.07
beach and we'll
have fun, and..." - Where
00:17:26.14\00:17:28.14
were you living at
at that time? - We were
00:17:28.24\00:17:29.61
living in San
Diego. Of course, lots of
00:17:29.71\00:17:33.98
water. But we went
down there and spent the day
00:17:34.08\00:17:37.52
together, and we joked
that after that, I just
00:17:37.62\00:17:42.72
bothered her a lot. I
just made myself available...
00:17:42.82\00:17:47.73
- He did. [laughter] -
And the kids, of course,
00:17:47.83\00:17:50.13
were friends, and
so we connected through
00:17:50.23\00:17:52.97
them. - How did you
feel, Sabrina, about all
00:17:53.10\00:17:54.87
this? - Yeah, well, like I
said... I wouldn't recommend,
00:17:54.97\00:18:01.61
actually, a single
woman going with people you
00:18:01.71\00:18:08.32
don't know with your
children; but it worked
00:18:08.38\00:18:11.99
out in this case very
well. They were military;
00:18:12.09\00:18:15.86
I'm from the
military. I was raised in the
00:18:15.92\00:18:18.86
military. And he
was in the Navy, and my
00:18:18.93\00:18:23.37
dad was in the
Navy, so to me, Navy guys
00:18:23.47\00:18:25.63
were good. [laughter]
I felt safe. So, I did
00:18:25.73\00:18:30.01
go and brought the
children, and we did
00:18:30.11\00:18:32.07
have a good time. -
How long after that did you
00:18:32.14\00:18:34.34
get married? -
Well, we did everything
00:18:34.44\00:18:37.91
wrong. [laughter]
We didn't know the Lord
00:18:37.98\00:18:41.98
then. We were living in
the world, just doing the
00:18:42.08\00:18:44.52
things of the world.
So, after about a year
00:18:44.62\00:18:48.79
and a half of knowing
each other and getting
00:18:48.89\00:18:52.23
to know each other,
I recommended that we
00:18:52.29\00:18:54.50
move in together. - Ah.
- And I wouldn't do that
00:18:54.56\00:18:57.10
today. - Right. -
But we moved in together.
00:18:57.17\00:19:01.70
I was battling with
some issues. You know, when
00:19:01.80\00:19:07.04
you go into a marriage,
you bring all your baggage
00:19:07.11\00:19:09.48
with you. I was struggling
with some things, but we
00:19:09.58\00:19:13.45
worked through
those. And eventually, I did
00:19:13.52\00:19:16.08
ask her to marry me.
- So it was about two
00:19:16.15\00:19:18.05
years. - Mhm. -
Wow. So the children were
00:19:18.12\00:19:21.22
getting along
okay? They were friends,
00:19:21.29\00:19:23.99
right? - Right. -
That's kind of funny. They were
00:19:24.06\00:19:27.96
great friends until we
decided to get married;
00:19:28.03\00:19:30.80
and then, all of a
sudden, they decided they didn't
00:19:30.87\00:19:33.03
really wanna... -
Well, they were together
00:19:33.13\00:19:35.40
constantly all the
time, so I don't know. I think
00:19:35.50\00:19:39.41
they're both strong-willed,
and so that being together,
00:19:39.47\00:19:43.95
it just came out. [laughter]
- We were able to work
00:19:44.91\00:19:48.95
through it. - Oh,
yeah. It was great. We had
00:19:49.02\00:19:51.65
been... It was a
family. They're our children and
00:19:51.72\00:19:55.62
we are Mom and Dad. -
Beautiful. - So how did
00:19:55.66\00:19:58.63
you get in- you were
not in the ministry yet
00:19:58.66\00:20:00.66
at that time. How
did you get involved with
00:20:00.73\00:20:02.36
ministry? - No; in fact,
I was still in the military
00:20:02.46\00:20:06.17
when we met, but I
got out in the early '90s.
00:20:06.27\00:20:14.41
Then, we just
stayed there, 'cause all of
00:20:15.81\00:20:19.08
Sabrina's family is
right there in California
00:20:19.15\00:20:22.58
where we were. So, we
started working; I started
00:20:22.68\00:20:28.82
working in the society
there, and I was working
00:20:28.92\00:20:34.23
as an electrician. I
thought that we would
00:20:34.30\00:20:41.60
just be doing that for
forever, but I was working
00:20:41.70\00:20:48.04
as an electrician,
but I had a good friend
00:20:48.11\00:20:50.05
who was high up in
the Union and he told
00:20:50.15\00:20:53.88
me about a fiber
optic class that the Union
00:20:53.98\00:20:56.82
was going to be given
through the electrical
00:20:56.89\00:20:58.59
program and I
should get in on it (and I
00:20:58.65\00:21:01.49
did). I saw with the
fiber optic cable that-
00:21:01.59\00:21:07.00
wow-this is the future!
And so, I ended up, after
00:21:07.10\00:21:11.13
going through that
class, I ended up leaving and
00:21:11.23\00:21:14.24
I got into telecommunications.
I worked for a company for
00:21:14.30\00:21:17.71
about a year, and then
they were having financial
00:21:17.77\00:21:20.44
issues. I left
there; I went and worked for
00:21:20.51\00:21:22.04
another company. Then,
they were going to close
00:21:22.14\00:21:24.88
down their San Diego
office and I thought I
00:21:24.98\00:21:30.22
was going to be
looking for another job. I had
00:21:30.29\00:21:31.79
two of the guys
that I worked with say to
00:21:31.85\00:21:34.82
me, "Why don't we
start our own company?" So,
00:21:34.89\00:21:39.49
I went home and
talked to Sabrina about that,
00:21:40.33\00:21:41.93
and we decided
that, yeah - we were going
00:21:42.03\00:21:45.70
to go into
business. So, we started in my
00:21:45.77\00:21:48.64
garage. This company
was incredibly successful.
00:21:48.70\00:21:54.18
Right from the beginning,
we grew 46% a year. - Wow!
00:21:55.78\00:21:59.81
- For five years that
I was in business with
00:21:59.91\00:22:03.55
these two
gentlemen. We worked very well
00:22:03.65\00:22:05.49
together. One gentleman
was older. He had had a
00:22:05.55\00:22:09.99
business before; had
a really good business
00:22:10.09\00:22:12.03
mind. The other one had
incredible sales abilities;
00:22:12.09\00:22:17.30
he was an amazing
salesman. He could
00:22:17.40\00:22:20.54
bring in $4 million
a year in business by
00:22:20.64\00:22:22.74
himself. - Wow! - And
I had all the technical
00:22:22.80\00:22:25.54
expertise. - What a
team. - So, we worked
00:22:25.64\00:22:27.71
very well
together. - And now, when you
00:22:27.78\00:22:30.25
think about that
kind of foundation, you
00:22:30.31\00:22:31.68
think, "Wow, well,
this is something we should
00:22:31.78\00:22:33.11
stick with." But
what transitioned you out
00:22:33.15\00:22:35.08
of that into ministry?
- Well, we weren't looking
00:22:35.18\00:22:38.82
for that; that's
for sure. I thought that
00:22:38.89\00:22:42.89
we had everything that
we wanted. We were very
00:22:42.96\00:22:47.46
successful and we were
living the American dream.
00:22:47.53\00:22:51.53
I was not looking
for God...but I went to
00:22:52.77\00:22:55.97
bed one evening, same
as every other evening, and
00:22:56.04\00:22:59.77
God came to me in a
dream that night and
00:22:59.87\00:23:02.78
rocked my
world... gave me a Damascus
00:23:02.84\00:23:06.05
? experience that I
haven't been able to
00:23:06.15\00:23:08.38
turn from. I woke
up the next morning and
00:23:08.45\00:23:10.82
I knew that that was
real, I knew that God
00:23:10.89\00:23:13.39
was real, and...I
literally changed. - So here you
00:23:13.46\00:23:20.23
are reading Revelation,
not understanding it,
00:23:20.30\00:23:22.66
but this joy all of
a sudden opens up in
00:23:22.73\00:23:24.47
your life. What happened to
get you to start understanding
00:23:24.53\00:23:27.70
Revelation? - God
started moving very quickly in
00:23:27.77\00:23:32.21
many ways. I had a
business partner who
00:23:32.27\00:23:35.68
was a Christian. He
calls me up one night and says,
00:23:35.78\00:23:38.71
"Can you bring my
Bible to me? I left
00:23:38.81\00:23:40.38
it at my desk at the
office." It's opened.
00:23:40.45\00:23:42.68
I see that it's a
study Bible. I'm reading it.
00:23:42.78\00:23:45.49
I'm impressed. "I
need one of these." I take
00:23:45.59\00:23:48.92
it, drop it by
his house, ask him,
00:23:48.99\00:23:51.66
"Where did you get
this? I need one of these."
00:23:51.76\00:23:54.83
He offers to buy one
for me. He brings one
00:23:54.93\00:23:58.60
a couple weeks
later- leather bound, name
00:23:58.67\00:24:02.40
engraved on it...
And not only did he give
00:24:02.50\00:24:05.74
me the Bible, but he
invited me to a Bible
00:24:05.81\00:24:09.34
study at his church and
he said, "We're starting
00:24:09.44\00:24:11.81
a brand new one. Next
week, it's going to be
00:24:11.88\00:24:14.02
on the book of Revelation.
- Ah! - That's God leading
00:24:14.12\00:24:17.12
in your life. - Absolutely!
So, things started moving
00:24:17.19\00:24:21.46
quickly at that
point. I went to that Bible
00:24:21.56\00:24:24.66
study. - Was it a
nice, small Bible study?
00:24:24.76\00:24:26.90
[laughter] - No! It
was a 3,000-member church.
00:24:27.00\00:24:31.97
- Whoa! - It was like a
church service. The pastor
00:24:32.03\00:24:34.57
comes out, he gives
this powerful sermon, he has
00:24:34.60\00:24:37.71
an altar call, and
I knew then at that
00:24:39.17\00:24:43.45
moment that that's what
I needed. I needed to give
00:24:43.51\00:24:46.21
my heart to Jesus,
and I had been running for
00:24:46.31\00:24:50.35
20 years. And now,
I give my heart to the
00:24:50.42\00:24:54.12
Lord. Things kind
of... He started making big
00:24:54.22\00:25:00.13
changes. - Wow. So
that night, how did you feel
00:25:00.23\00:25:03.06
going down to the altar?
- You know, it was amazing.
00:25:03.13\00:25:06.07
I gave my heart to the
Lord. The only thing that
00:25:06.13\00:25:09.17
kept me from burning up
were the tears that were
00:25:09.27\00:25:11.74
flowing down my
face. But I left there a
00:25:11.81\00:25:15.74
different person. I knew
at that point, I had given
00:25:15.81\00:25:19.05
my heart to the
Lord; I was going to serve
00:25:19.15\00:25:20.48
Him...but I didn't know
how to tell Sabrina what
00:25:20.52\00:25:24.12
had happened to me. I
went home and I didn't
00:25:24.19\00:25:26.25
even tell her. -
Now, Sabrina... - I had no
00:25:26.35\00:25:29.02
idea! - How did you
feel? What happened?
00:25:29.09\00:25:32.79
How did you express
to your wife what was
00:25:32.86\00:25:34.46
going on? - I just
kept studying the Bible. I
00:25:34.56\00:25:39.63
just kept allowing God
to make changes in me, but
00:25:39.73\00:25:42.70
I realized very
quickly that I couldn't change
00:25:42.77\00:25:45.14
God and money. I
had to make a change. I
00:25:45.21\00:25:49.91
didn't know how to
make that change, but I knew
00:25:49.98\00:25:52.38
that I had to do
one or the other. Very
00:25:52.45\00:25:56.18
long story short, I
ended up asking my business
00:25:56.28\00:26:00.06
partners to buy me
out. I ended up losing
00:26:00.16\00:26:03.02
everything. They
fired me from my company.
00:26:03.12\00:26:06.53
- From your own
company. - From the company we
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.36
started in my
garage... and we felt impressed
00:26:08.43\00:26:13.20
to put our house up
for sale, and we knew
00:26:13.27\00:26:16.17
that that was from the
Lord. Another incredible
00:26:16.24\00:26:19.01
story: we ended up
selling the house; and
00:26:19.11\00:26:21.88
the day that we
did, the Lord spoke to me
00:26:21.98\00:26:24.78
and said, "I want
you to move to Alpena."
00:26:24.91\00:26:26.95
I spent the whole
day trying to figure out
00:26:27.05\00:26:28.75
how He's going to
convince her to move
00:26:28.82\00:26:30.59
away from her family.
- And how did you feel?
00:26:30.65\00:26:34.39
That was home for
you, Sabrina. - That was
00:26:34.49\00:26:36.52
home. My family's
there. I was at work, also, and
00:26:36.59\00:26:41.26
the Lord impressed me,
also. "You need to move
00:26:41.36\00:26:45.00
to Alpena,
Michigan." Well, there's nothing
00:26:45.10\00:26:50.27
in myself that's
going to want me to move to
00:26:50.37\00:26:53.48
Alpena, Michigan; it
had to have been from
00:26:53.58\00:26:55.24
the Lord. - From San
Diego to freezing out
00:26:55.28\00:26:58.31
cold. - Alpena. Yes.
Who does that? [laughter]
00:26:58.45\00:27:02.02
- You know, we've learned
in our own lives. Sometimes,
00:27:02.12\00:27:03.69
the Lord has to tear
your life down. He has
00:27:03.75\00:27:05.92
to demolish it in
order to build on that spot
00:27:05.99\00:27:08.79
what He always intended.
Going back to this, Pastor,
00:27:08.86\00:27:11.39
the Lord had been
trying to get you for more than
00:27:11.49\00:27:14.93
20 years at this point!
So, He had been longsuffering-
00:27:15.03\00:27:18.23
patient-but He
said, "The hour has come.
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.74
I am not letting you
run anymore from Me."
00:27:20.84\00:27:23.14
So He took you company,
got you a Bible that you
00:27:23.20\00:27:25.87
could understand, told
you to move to Alpena...
00:27:25.97\00:27:28.58
That's where you
were raised. - Yes. - But
00:27:29.31\00:27:32.15
what else is
happening in Alpena that's about
00:27:32.21\00:27:33.72
to transition your
life? - Well, when I had left,
00:27:33.82\00:27:36.92
I was bitter and
angry with my dad. We had a
00:27:37.02\00:27:41.42
superficial relationship,
but now I was a Christian
00:27:41.52\00:27:44.29
and I had all this love
that I didn't have before.
00:27:44.39\00:27:46.63
Now I'm going to get to
repair this relationship
00:27:46.70\00:27:48.83
with my dad. Sabrina
moves to Alpena first
00:27:48.93\00:27:51.97
with our
youngest daughter; I stay,
00:27:52.03\00:27:53.54
finish up the sale of
the house... She calls me
00:27:53.60\00:27:56.87
one day and
says-she's looking for churches
00:27:56.94\00:27:58.74
there-she says, "I
found the church, but
00:27:58.81\00:28:01.34
you're not going to like
it. It's a little smaller
00:28:01.44\00:28:03.61
than our church in San
Diego." I said, "What's
00:28:03.68\00:28:06.78
a little smaller?"
'Cause our church has 3,000
00:28:06.85\00:28:10.12
members! She says,
"Well, they have 12.
00:28:10.22\00:28:12.69
And they don't have a
pastor; they need you!"
00:28:12.79\00:28:14.79
- Oh! - And I
thought, "What do you mean they
00:28:14.89\00:28:18.56
need me? Maybe she'll
change her mind by the
00:28:18.63\00:28:21.66
time I get there." So,
we work it out. We took
00:28:21.76\00:28:26.37
a step of faith that
we felt like the Lord
00:28:26.43\00:28:28.77
wanted us to move to
Alpena. We went there
00:28:28.87\00:28:30.67
and bought a house,
expecting Him to provide
00:28:30.77\00:28:32.51
for us. We moved. The
day that we get there,
00:28:32.57\00:28:37.21
my dad gets sick.
I got to spend three
00:28:37.71\00:28:41.95
months with him
before he died. And at one
00:28:42.05\00:28:46.79
point, I realized he
wasn't going to survive
00:28:46.89\00:28:49.86
what he was going through.
My mom and I start witnessing
00:28:49.96\00:28:52.93
to him and trying
to help him to give his
00:28:52.99\00:28:56.67
heart to the Lord. I
have to admit that I...
00:28:56.73\00:29:00.84
At one point, he
wasn't responding; he wasn't
00:29:01.40\00:29:04.81
giving his heart to the
Lord It was very frustrating for
00:29:04.87\00:29:08.51
me and I gave up. I
decided I wasn't going
00:29:08.61\00:29:11.08
to do it
anymore... but the following
00:29:11.15\00:29:13.35
morning, my sister
called me, said, "Dad
00:29:13.42\00:29:15.48
wants to talk to
you," and she said that he
00:29:15.55\00:29:17.59
called me "the preacher."
I had never preached a
00:29:17.69\00:29:20.46
sermon! In fact, I
had worked it out with the
00:29:20.56\00:29:23.63
church-this little
church. They didn't
00:29:23.76\00:29:25.99
have a pastor. They
had a couple of guys that
00:29:26.09\00:29:28.00
were trying to kind of
fill in and do what they
00:29:28.06\00:29:30.53
could...but to me, I
was looking for more.
00:29:30.63\00:29:34.97
I was looking for meat
and I was getting milk,
00:29:35.10\00:29:37.54
so I asked them,
"Can I preach?" And they
00:29:37.64\00:29:42.28
said, "Well, we'll
see." They worked it out.
00:29:42.38\00:29:46.08
My very first
sermon was scheduled to be
00:29:46.18\00:29:49.28
the day after my dad
ended up dying. I had
00:29:49.38\00:29:52.52
never preached a sermon.
So, now, I do; I came in.
00:29:52.59\00:29:59.06
I preached, and
then pretty soon, I was
00:29:59.16\00:30:01.16
preaching every week, I
was taking some classes...
00:30:01.26\00:30:03.53
The day that I was
ordained, they asked
00:30:03.60\00:30:07.14
us to be the
pastoral couple of that little
00:30:07.20\00:30:11.34
church. - That slightly
smaller church. - Slightly
00:30:11.44\00:30:14.41
smaller, yes. [laughter]
- So, we pastored that
00:30:14.48\00:30:19.88
church for almost
6 years. - And what
00:30:19.98\00:30:24.75
denomination is
this? - Non-denominational,
00:30:24.82\00:30:26.79
and the church was
growing. We went from 12... The
00:30:26.86\00:30:33.09
day they asked me to
be the pastor, half the
00:30:33.19\00:30:34.93
church left, so we went
to 6. - Oh, no! - But we look
00:30:35.00\00:30:39.03
back at it now and
we see that the Lord was
00:30:39.10\00:30:40.74
cleaning house,
because at that point, we had
00:30:40.84\00:30:42.47
already been there
two years and we were the
00:30:42.54\00:30:44.74
only new
people...in two years. But now,
00:30:44.87\00:30:48.08
the 6 leave; now, we
start growing. Pretty
00:30:48.14\00:30:50.85
soon, we're back to 12,
15, 18, 20... When we got
00:30:50.91\00:30:53.92
to 26, I realized that
the church was growing...
00:30:54.05\00:30:57.39
but I wasn't. I felt
stagnant and I thought,
00:30:58.85\00:31:02.16
"What happens when the
church catches up where
00:31:02.22\00:31:07.06
we're at and what
do we do then?" So we
00:31:07.10\00:31:10.17
started praying
that the Lord would bring
00:31:10.23\00:31:12.43
someone into our
life to help us. - Okay.
00:31:12.50\00:31:15.54
And what did He do?
- Well, it wasn't very
00:31:15.60\00:31:17.47
long. Just within
a week or so, we had
00:31:17.54\00:31:21.31
a Wednesday night
Bible study at the church.
00:31:21.38\00:31:23.01
this woman comes knocking
on the door and says that
00:31:23.85\00:31:27.52
she's looking for a
Bible study. I said, "Praise
00:31:27.62\00:31:29.85
God, we got one going
right now. Come on in!"
00:31:29.95\00:31:32.09
She said, "Well,
I'm looking for meat; I
00:31:32.19\00:31:35.12
don't want milk." And
I said, "Praise God. Me
00:31:35.22\00:31:37.53
either. Come on
in!" Well, it didn't take
00:31:37.59\00:31:40.60
very long to figure
out that she knew her Bible
00:31:40.66\00:31:42.20
better than any of us
did at that church. Then,
00:31:42.26\00:31:47.54
we got to know her
husband, and Sabrina
00:31:47.64\00:31:49.80
and I started
studying with them one-on-one
00:31:49.90\00:31:52.51
and they started
sharing the Sabbath with us.
00:31:53.68\00:31:55.78
They were not Adventist
and they didn't have the
00:31:56.85\00:31:59.85
corporate day of
worship, but they had the rest.
00:31:59.95\00:32:02.82
- Wow. - And we
saw that that was true,
00:32:02.88\00:32:05.79
and we started
keeping the Sabbath the best
00:32:05.89\00:32:09.42
that we knew while I
was preaching on Sunday.
00:32:09.52\00:32:11.96
- Wow. - Did you
tell your church? - We...
00:32:12.03\00:32:15.83
We didn't. We started
doing studies with them
00:32:16.50\00:32:21.80
to try and lead
them, but we saw opposition
00:32:21.87\00:32:25.04
so we kind of backed
off from that a little
00:32:25.07\00:32:27.18
bit...but we saw
that we were growing, and
00:32:27.24\00:32:31.68
then we REALLY started
praying. We said, "Lord,
00:32:31.78\00:32:34.88
we want more. This
is amazing, but we want
00:32:34.95\00:32:39.29
more truth. - You were
hungering and thirsting
00:32:39.39\00:32:41.46
at this point. - Absolutely.
- Yeah. We could see growth.
00:32:41.59\00:32:44.36
- So this lady, now,
who's not an Adventist but she's
00:32:44.46\00:32:47.30
revealing to you
the Sabbath...where did
00:32:47.36\00:32:50.83
this take you?
What happened? I mean,
00:32:50.90\00:32:53.07
how did the- 'cause
what you're seeing now is the
00:32:53.13\00:32:55.67
Lord is just, He's taking
you only as you're willing
00:32:55.77\00:32:58.41
to go and He is
saying "Rod, Sabrina, this is
00:32:58.47\00:33:04.35
your journey. I
stopped you at that church to
00:33:04.41\00:33:07.08
tell you one thing. You
know a lot, but I'm going
00:33:07.15\00:33:09.75
to take you to the
next level." How did that-
00:33:09.82\00:33:11.72
tell us about this
transition. I mean,
00:33:11.82\00:33:13.66
'cause somewhere
along the way, the Lord just
00:33:13.72\00:33:15.06
broke this can open
and you have to tell the
00:33:15.69\00:33:18.03
church that you're
with, "We're leaving." - Yes.
00:33:18.09\00:33:21.40
We had these prayers
that we were doing that
00:33:21.50\00:33:28.04
we would grow. Again,
the Lord was faithful.
00:33:28.14\00:33:31.67
He's been faithful
all along this journey,
00:33:31.74\00:33:33.81
moving us and directing
us. We were just driving
00:33:33.88\00:33:37.61
home one day and saw
a sign on the side of
00:33:37.68\00:33:41.92
the road at the
civic center in Alpena that
00:33:42.02\00:33:45.69
said, "Unlock Revelation
starts tonight at 7 o'clock."
00:33:45.75\00:33:50.23
I looked at my watch
and it was 6. I looked
00:33:50.33\00:33:53.86
at Sabrina and she's
looking at me and she
00:33:53.93\00:33:55.40
said, "You want to
go, don't you?" [laughter]
00:33:55.50\00:33:58.43
Of course, the whole
issue with Revelation...
00:33:58.53\00:34:01.74
So, we go home, get
our Bibles, we go back,
00:34:01.84\00:34:07.61
and we ended up
going through that entire
00:34:07.68\00:34:11.85
series. My mom was
there, my uncle Marvin
00:34:11.98\00:34:17.05
was there, one of
the members of our church
00:34:17.19\00:34:19.72
was there, we tried
to get the rest of the
00:34:19.79\00:34:21.89
church to come as
we're hearing these truths.
00:34:21.96\00:34:25.06
And of course, they're
foundational; the law is
00:34:25.13\00:34:27.76
applicable, the
Sabbath, they just- one built
00:34:27.86\00:34:31.77
upon the next,
and we're seeing these
00:34:31.83\00:34:33.80
truths. I
couldn't dispute it. It was
00:34:33.90\00:34:35.94
so clear to me
that this was the truth.
00:34:36.04\00:34:40.78
The truth just has a certain
sound to it-a ring to it-
00:34:40.84\00:34:44.58
and it was perfectly
what I needed. I couldn't
00:34:44.68\00:34:47.68
dispute it. All we
had to do was decide, "Are
00:34:47.75\00:34:52.65
we going to follow
this truth?" But what really
00:34:52.75\00:34:55.39
hit me was when they
got into the denominational
00:34:55.49\00:35:00.96
churches and the harlot
daughters, and you can't
00:35:01.06\00:35:06.07
fix it; all you can do
is come out. That night
00:35:06.13\00:35:09.74
hit me like an a ton
of bricks. I literally
00:35:09.80\00:35:12.97
felt like somebody
knocked the wind out
00:35:13.04\00:35:14.54
of me. We left that evening,
we walked out, got into the
00:35:14.61\00:35:19.45
car, and just sat
there. And finally, I looked at
00:35:19.51\00:35:23.55
her and I said,
"You know what we have
00:35:23.65\00:35:26.32
to do." And she said,
"Yes," and she started
00:35:26.39\00:35:31.16
crying, because
that was our church. We
00:35:31.23\00:35:34.80
love those people.
- Those are family.
00:35:34.86\00:35:36.80
- I want to pause on
that little note right
00:35:36.87\00:35:39.40
there, because this
is deep. I mean, I'm
00:35:39.50\00:35:41.90
listening to this. Although
I've heard Revelation all
00:35:42.00\00:35:45.54
these years, I understand
exactly what you're talking
00:35:45.64\00:35:47.41
about...but I'm
feeling this right now. I don't
00:35:47.48\00:35:49.71
use the word 'feel' a
lot-my wife knows that-
00:35:49.78\00:35:51.78
but I'm sensing this
was a powerful moment
00:35:51.88\00:35:54.32
for both of you, because
the Lord is saying, "Hey,
00:35:54.38\00:35:56.89
remember when you were
15"- ah, "when you were
00:35:57.02\00:36:00.59
19..." - 15. - When
you were 15-that's right-
00:36:00.62\00:36:03.43
"I knocked on your
mind." He used Revelation all
00:36:03.49\00:36:07.76
those years to reveal
Himself to you then to
00:36:07.80\00:36:10.77
reveal His truth to
you. He's saying, "It's been
00:36:10.83\00:36:15.10
a long journey; but
now, which direction are you
00:36:15.17\00:36:18.21
going to go?" And you're
sitting in the car, weeping,
00:36:18.27\00:36:20.11
because you're about
to disconnect from all
00:36:20.21\00:36:21.54
these people that you
love. Tell me about that,
00:36:21.58\00:36:24.18
because there's
somebody watching this program.
00:36:24.25\00:36:26.11
There's maybe a
pastor watching this program.
00:36:26.85\00:36:29.18
There could be somebody
that's saying, "Why does
00:36:29.28\00:36:32.42
that sound like
what's happening in our lives
00:36:32.49\00:36:33.92
right now?" "Why
does that sound like what
00:36:33.99\00:36:35.96
the Lord is doing to
me right now? The Lord
00:36:36.06\00:36:37.89
put these two individuals
on this program to tell
00:36:37.96\00:36:40.43
me-wait a minute-I'm
coming to the very same
00:36:40.53\00:36:42.96
intersection?" And
what you said, Pastor, is
00:36:43.06\00:36:45.63
very important. I want
to use this as an appeal
00:36:45.73\00:36:47.20
moment. The Lord
may say, "Hey, where you
00:36:47.27\00:36:50.47
are is beautiful,
but I have a more direct,
00:36:50.57\00:36:53.44
more beautiful,
more full vision for your
00:36:53.54\00:36:56.04
life." So, here you are
in the car, now, and you
00:36:56.14\00:36:59.51
both are almost choked
up. You're driving home;
00:36:59.61\00:37:02.48
this is a different
drive. This is overwhelming.
00:37:02.58\00:37:04.62
Tell us how this
happened. - Yeah. - When we went
00:37:04.69\00:37:09.72
through that series
and saw those truths- and
00:37:09.79\00:37:13.76
everyone who does love
the Lord- I really feel that
00:37:13.83\00:37:17.87
the Lord will lead
them to the truth the more
00:37:17.93\00:37:20.00
they hunger and
thirst for it. We're on this
00:37:20.07\00:37:22.57
path and this
journey, and we get there. And
00:37:22.67\00:37:25.67
now, we've gotta
make a choice. There are
00:37:25.74\00:37:28.54
probably many,
many listeners out there
00:37:28.64\00:37:31.08
who- you are at a
place where you've
00:37:31.15\00:37:34.28
got to make a
decision. You either go back the
00:37:34.38\00:37:36.62
way you came from,
or you make that leap of
00:37:36.72\00:37:38.39
faith. We chose
that we had to- we knew
00:37:38.49\00:37:43.09
at that moment that
we needed to leave; we
00:37:43.16\00:37:46.39
needed to be a part
of the Remnant Church,
00:37:46.46\00:37:47.96
but we also knew that
we couldn't just leave.
00:37:48.03\00:37:50.53
We had to try to
bring the church along with
00:37:50.63\00:37:52.10
us. - That's
right. People you love.
00:37:52.23\00:37:53.57
- This was an
Adventist church where you heard
00:37:54.37\00:37:56.94
the Revelation
seminar. - It was the Alpena
00:37:57.01\00:37:58.34
Adventist Church that
was putting on the series. We
00:37:58.41\00:38:00.38
didn't know it at
the time; but by the time
00:38:00.44\00:38:02.94
it was done, we knew,
and by the time I kind
00:38:03.01\00:38:06.61
of got hit that we
needed to leave our church, we
00:38:06.72\00:38:09.25
knew it was the Adventist
church at that point. - Yes,
00:38:09.35\00:38:11.05
we did. - So, when
you go back- now, I want
00:38:11.12\00:38:12.85
to go with you. We're
going to walk with you.
00:38:12.92\00:38:14.36
You ready, honey? - Go
ahead. - We're going to
00:38:14.46\00:38:15.79
walk with you on
that Sunday morning when
00:38:15.82\00:38:17.19
you back to your
church where you were. What
00:38:17.26\00:38:19.66
happened that day? -
Well, we started to try and lead
00:38:19.73\00:38:26.30
them in the
direction, and the Sabbath we
00:38:26.43\00:38:29.24
knew that the law was
still applicable... Even
00:38:29.34\00:38:34.34
as we were going through
that series, even leading
00:38:34.44\00:38:36.88
up to that point
to where, now, we have
00:38:36.95\00:38:38.91
to leave the church, I
had been preaching about
00:38:39.01\00:38:41.45
the Sabbath on
Sunday. I did it three weeks
00:38:41.52\00:38:44.89
in a row. And on the
third week, I literally
00:38:44.99\00:38:50.33
said, "I don't know
about you, but I want
00:38:50.43\00:38:52.76
the truth, I need
the truth, and I'm going
00:38:52.83\00:38:54.83
to follow the
truth even if it leads me
00:38:54.90\00:38:57.13
out that door." -
Ooh. That's bold. - And so
00:38:57.20\00:39:00.44
at that point, they
knew that we were changing.
00:39:00.50\00:39:04.97
And of course,
we're trying to bring them
00:39:05.07\00:39:06.98
along with that, too,
but they were resisting.
00:39:07.11\00:39:10.31
- They were comfortable.
You know how that is.
00:39:11.21\00:39:13.35
- Yeah, yeah. - You
get comfortable; you're
00:39:13.45\00:39:14.95
familiar with
your surroundings, and
00:39:15.02\00:39:17.05
you like the
traditions that you've always
00:39:17.12\00:39:20.56
known. - Mhm. -
Just gotta let go. - Yes.
00:39:20.66\00:39:24.73
- So, we ended up having
a- in the non-denominational
00:39:24.79\00:39:28.13
church, you don't
have a higher headquarters;
00:39:28.20\00:39:30.10
you just have your own
entity. God's timing is
00:39:30.20\00:39:34.30
always perfect. - That's
right. - Right after that
00:39:34.40\00:39:36.60
night, we had one more
meeting to finalize things,
00:39:36.71\00:39:40.44
and then we were going
to have a business meeting
00:39:40.51\00:39:41.91
to vote on who was on
our steering committee.
00:39:41.98\00:39:47.82
We didn't have
elders, but who was going to
00:39:47.88\00:39:49.22
lead the church, who
was going to be in various
00:39:49.25\00:39:52.02
positions, what ministries
we were going to support,
00:39:52.12\00:39:54.42
missions, and
whether or not to retain the
00:39:54.49\00:39:57.19
pastor. - Which was
you. - Which was me. So, I
00:39:57.26\00:40:03.77
only had, really, a yearly
contract. Every year, they
00:40:03.87\00:40:06.37
would vote whether or
not to retain the pastor.
00:40:06.47\00:40:08.44
So, I went into
that meeting, and there
00:40:08.54\00:40:13.17
were various reports,
and finally, it got to
00:40:13.27\00:40:15.04
the pastor's
report. I said to them, "I
00:40:15.14\00:40:18.61
want to get right
to the point. I want to
00:40:18.71\00:40:20.38
bring a nomination
before this committee
00:40:20.45\00:40:22.15
that we add to the
ballot for the business
00:40:22.22\00:40:24.65
meeting for next week to
bring to the congregation
00:40:24.75\00:40:27.72
that we vote to change
the day that we worship
00:40:27.79\00:40:30.53
to Saturday. - Wow.
And you could've heard
00:40:30.63\00:40:34.76
a pin drop. - Oh,
I'm sure. - And it didn't
00:40:34.86\00:40:37.13
take very long to figure
out that no one was going
00:40:37.23\00:40:39.13
to second that
motion... but I wanted everyone
00:40:39.20\00:40:42.17
to tell me why, because
we've been talking to 'em.
00:40:42.24\00:40:44.91
We've been trying to
lead them; we've been
00:40:45.01\00:40:46.34
bringing them the
truth, trying to get them to go
00:40:46.37\00:40:47.84
to these series,
and they kept saying no,
00:40:47.91\00:40:50.15
no, no, and now,
they're saying no. I wanted to
00:40:50.21\00:40:52.58
get it recorded in
the books they have, and
00:40:52.68\00:40:54.32
I was... Every person
told me why, and I was
00:40:54.38\00:40:59.32
very disappointed in
the shallowness of their
00:40:59.39\00:41:02.12
answers. But I ended
up telling them, "I'm glad
00:41:02.22\00:41:08.20
that you are all
in agreement. I wish
00:41:08.30\00:41:10.27
we all are, but
Sabrina and I are not. We need
00:41:10.37\00:41:14.97
to leave. So, I want
to ask you to take my name
00:41:15.07\00:41:18.57
off of the ballot
to be retained as the
00:41:18.71\00:41:20.61
pastor." I got up
and I took my keys to the
00:41:20.71\00:41:24.48
building off the ring
and I said, "I'm going
00:41:24.58\00:41:27.18
to leave at this
point because I'm sure that
00:41:27.25\00:41:29.25
you have a lot to
talk about." - Ooh. - And
00:41:29.32\00:41:31.69
I walked out. - I'm not
in that meeting with you;
00:41:31.75\00:41:34.99
I'm staying... - Were
you there, Sabrina? - No, I
00:41:35.06\00:41:37.99
was not at that
meeting. - Okay, so it was just
00:41:38.06\00:41:40.13
you with the board
members. - It was a
00:41:40.23\00:41:41.56
heavy moment for you
both. - It was a heartbreaking
00:41:41.60\00:41:43.37
moment, because I
was very sad. I knew the
00:41:43.50\00:41:46.80
truth, I saw the
truth, I was trying to share
00:41:46.84\00:41:49.27
the truth with them,
and they were rejecting
00:41:49.34\00:41:51.47
it and I was heartbroken.
- That was our family.
00:41:51.64\00:41:55.04
- That was your
family. - That was our church
00:41:55.11\00:41:56.95
family. Those were
our family. - And so, we
00:41:57.05\00:41:59.75
started attending
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:41:59.81\00:42:01.72
Church, and at that
time, I really thought
00:42:01.78\00:42:07.99
that's why the Lord
brought us to Alpena-
00:42:08.09\00:42:10.99
so I could spend
that three months with my
00:42:11.06\00:42:12.43
dad, so that I
could pastor this church,
00:42:12.53\00:42:15.90
and then that would
get us into the Adventist
00:42:16.00\00:42:19.00
church, and now
we've- this is the end of the
00:42:19.03\00:42:21.84
journey that, I'm thinking,
and I'm thinking, "I'm done
00:42:21.90\00:42:24.31
as a pastor." - Mhm. -
Right. You're thinking-
00:42:24.37\00:42:27.08
right. The Lord
is severing you, and
00:42:27.18\00:42:29.74
you're thinking,
"Well, we just threw it all
00:42:29.84\00:42:31.41
away. What do we do
next?" - Did you get
00:42:31.51\00:42:33.75
baptized? - We
got baptized into the
00:42:33.82\00:42:35.88
church, and they put
us in positions, and I
00:42:35.95\00:42:39.89
became, eventually, the
head elder...but the Lord
00:42:39.95\00:42:43.02
wasn't done with me.
He kept working on me
00:42:43.12\00:42:45.56
that I... It was
a lifetime calling,
00:42:46.39\00:42:50.00
not a part-time calling.
- Not incidental. I want
00:42:50.10\00:42:53.70
to inject this text
here, because, you know, this
00:42:53.80\00:42:55.57
came to my mind when
you were talking about
00:42:55.64\00:42:57.51
that, and
somebody's watching the program
00:42:57.57\00:42:59.44
that might need this
verse: Matthew 10:37,
00:42:59.51\00:43:01.71
"He who loves
father or mother more than
00:43:01.78\00:43:04.91
Me is not worthy of
Me. He who loves son
00:43:05.01\00:43:07.85
or daughter more than
Me is not worthy of Me."
00:43:07.95\00:43:10.32
You know, one of
the calls that the Lord
00:43:10.39\00:43:11.75
extends to our
lives, He says, "Follow me,
00:43:11.82\00:43:13.82
and I will make
you"... you know, with the
00:43:13.89\00:43:15.76
fishers of men. We
know that the "follow me and
00:43:15.82\00:43:17.46
I will make you," and
so many people are watching
00:43:17.53\00:43:18.89
or listening to the
program, and they're
00:43:18.96\00:43:20.60
not willing to
follow the Lord. And Pastor
00:43:20.70\00:43:22.30
Thompson and
Sabrina, you both are saying
00:43:22.36\00:43:25.03
you sat before
your church. Not many of
00:43:25.13\00:43:27.74
you are having to
walk away from an entire
00:43:27.84\00:43:30.01
church as the
pastor, but somebody may be
00:43:30.07\00:43:32.24
in that position.
But what we're seeing now
00:43:32.34\00:43:34.48
is you never
leave anything that God
00:43:34.54\00:43:37.81
doesn't give you something
far greater. - Amen. - So,
00:43:37.91\00:43:40.85
here you are.
You're head elder in this
00:43:40.95\00:43:43.72
church, in the Adventist
church, now, in Alpena...
00:43:43.79\00:43:45.85
But you're a
pastor now, and I want to
00:43:45.95\00:43:48.12
find out how that
happened. [laughter]
00:43:48.19\00:43:49.99
Take us there. -
Well, we thought that we
00:43:50.06\00:43:53.83
were done at that
point, but the Lord
00:43:53.93\00:43:55.46
kept working on
us. And then, the Lord
00:43:55.53\00:43:58.23
brought me to Matthew
21, to that story of the
00:43:58.33\00:44:02.20
parable of the
father who told his two sons
00:44:02.27\00:44:05.04
to go and work in the
vineyard. One said yes
00:44:05.11\00:44:07.98
but never went; the other
one said no but could change
00:44:08.04\00:44:11.55
his mind. That
story became very personal
00:44:11.65\00:44:15.18
to me at that time.
The Lord was speaking
00:44:15.28\00:44:18.35
through it to me that
I was the son that had
00:44:18.39\00:44:21.12
said no. When I was
15, I had said no. When I
00:44:21.19\00:44:24.83
became a pastor in the
non-denominational church,
00:44:24.89\00:44:27.16
they wanted me to go to
the seminary. I said no.
00:44:27.26\00:44:29.26
When I came into the
Adventist church, they
00:44:29.36\00:44:31.47
asked me, "Are you
going to go to the seminary?"
00:44:31.53\00:44:32.93
I said no. [laughter]
By two or three things
00:44:33.03\00:44:36.30
is established; but now,
I saw that I could change
00:44:36.40\00:44:41.24
my mind. And so, I
said to Sabrina, "I need to
00:44:41.31\00:44:45.51
go to the seminary."
She said, "It's about
00:44:45.58\00:44:49.78
time." [laughter] -
We got to get something
00:44:49.85\00:44:52.55
in perspective
here. You're watching this
00:44:52.62\00:44:54.56
as a person on the
train but making the journey
00:44:54.66\00:44:57.29
with your husband.
How is this happening? How
00:44:57.36\00:44:59.49
is this impacting your
life? - Well, it definitely
00:44:59.59\00:45:04.73
changes your
life. We moved from San
00:45:04.80\00:45:08.10
Diego, we moved
to Alpena, and that's
00:45:08.17\00:45:09.87
a big change right
there. He's working it as a
00:45:09.94\00:45:12.97
professional, then
he's a pastor of a church.
00:45:13.07\00:45:15.58
I become a
pastor's wife, you know? So,
00:45:16.78\00:45:19.48
that's a definite big
change, in a good way.
00:45:20.35\00:45:23.05
I mean, here we
are. We've made all these
00:45:23.15\00:45:25.05
steps, and we're growing
with the Lord through all
00:45:25.15\00:45:28.66
of this. That's a blessing.
He has really blessed us.
00:45:28.72\00:45:32.43
We're at the
Alpena church, and yes, we
00:45:33.43\00:45:36.26
left our family
members- you know, our church
00:45:36.33\00:45:38.87
family-but we
gained a whole 'nother one.
00:45:38.93\00:45:41.60
[Amen.] - And we
still had contact with those
00:45:41.70\00:45:44.14
other ones occasionally.
We had a whole new family.
00:45:44.21\00:45:47.94
Without them, this
would have been really
00:45:49.74\00:45:51.68
hard to do. You
rely on your family, you
00:45:51.78\00:45:56.48
know? They're your
support just like the
00:45:56.58\00:45:58.55
Lord is our
support, also. And then, he's
00:45:58.65\00:46:03.06
wanting to go to the
seminary... - And the
00:46:03.16\00:46:09.66
Lord worked that whole
thing out. - Yes, He did.
00:46:09.73\00:46:11.33
- Did you go? - I went
to the Michigan Conference
00:46:11.43\00:46:15.57
Leadership. I felt
that we needed to be not
00:46:15.64\00:46:17.61
only a Seventh-day pastor
but in Michigan. I felt like
00:46:17.67\00:46:21.14
this is why the
Lord was leading us here,
00:46:21.18\00:46:23.21
so I went to the leadership
and I talked to them, and
00:46:23.81\00:46:26.11
they said, "Well, we
don't do anything unless
00:46:26.18\00:46:29.55
the Lord moves us."
I said, "Of course; I
00:46:29.58\00:46:32.22
don't either," but
we started making plans.
00:46:32.29\00:46:35.06
I was going to finish
up my bachelor's degree, I
00:46:35.12\00:46:37.83
was going to retire
from the military (I
00:46:37.89\00:46:39.89
had joined when we got
to Alpena), I got approved
00:46:40.00\00:46:43.57
to start school at
Andrews in May of 2000... - Shh.
00:46:43.63\00:46:48.87
- That's okay. -
That's fine. - 2013, and so
00:46:48.94\00:46:54.84
it got time to where
I finished my bachelor's
00:46:54.91\00:46:57.58
degree, I was going to
retire from the military,
00:46:57.65\00:47:00.18
and I got a call from
the Michigan Conference,
00:47:00.28\00:47:02.05
"We'd like you to
come down and talk to us."
00:47:02.15\00:47:04.09
And in my mind, I was
thinking that I'll be at
00:47:04.95\00:47:08.26
Andrews, going to school,
and maybe, they'll make me
00:47:08.32\00:47:11.93
an associate pastor
somewhere in the area,
00:47:11.99\00:47:15.10
and maybe we'll get a
little financial help.
00:47:15.20\00:47:17.23
So, I was thinking,
"Okay, this could be
00:47:17.33\00:47:19.63
a good thing." And so,
we went down there, and
00:47:19.70\00:47:22.77
we interviewed with
them, and they said,
00:47:22.84\00:47:26.11
"Well, we don't
think that it would be any
00:47:26.71\00:47:31.28
benefit to make you
an associate pastor;
00:47:31.35\00:47:33.35
you already are one.
And we don't want you
00:47:33.42\00:47:35.98
inactive while
you're in school. Would you
00:47:36.02\00:47:40.66
consider pastoring a
couple of churches and
00:47:40.72\00:47:44.03
going to school part-time?"
- Oh! - Wow. - And I just
00:47:44.13\00:47:47.26
looked at Sabrina
and smiled, and I said to
00:47:47.33\00:47:49.63
them, "That's what we've
been praying for." - Amen.
00:47:49.73\00:47:52.60
Amen. - And so, they
worked it out for us.
00:47:52.67\00:47:56.57
And I just finished
my last two classes in
00:47:56.64\00:47:59.87
January for the seminary.
- Praise the Lord! Amen!
00:47:59.94\00:48:03.01
- I'm going to give
you a two-hander on that.
00:48:03.11\00:48:04.45
That's a praise-the-Lord.
- What a journey. What
00:48:04.48\00:48:08.22
about your father?
Did we end...? - My father
00:48:08.28\00:48:11.35
was trying to come
into the church with my mom,
00:48:11.45\00:48:17.89
but when my sister
died, he became very bitter
00:48:17.96\00:48:21.53
and angry. But I
got that opportunity to
00:48:21.60\00:48:24.70
witness to him. I
wasn't there the day before he
00:48:24.80\00:48:30.84
died, but my sister
said, "He wants to talk to you,
00:48:30.91\00:48:33.98
and he wants to,"
essentially, "give
00:48:34.01\00:48:37.35
his heart to the
Lord." Well, I was very upset
00:48:37.41\00:48:39.35
with myself because I
hadn't been there, but
00:48:39.41\00:48:41.58
the Lord is so
gracious. He gave me peace that
00:48:41.65\00:48:44.42
he could make that
decision without me.
00:48:44.55\00:48:46.42
- Amen. - That's
right. - And I have hope, even
00:48:46.49\00:48:48.79
though it may be a
mustard seed, I have
00:48:48.89\00:48:50.39
a slither of hope that
my dad will be in heaven.
00:48:50.46\00:48:53.40
- That's right. I
know- I mean, I share that
00:48:53.50\00:48:55.50
with you. We both
have lost our parents. But
00:48:55.56\00:49:01.90
God always has a
final say in that. We look
00:49:02.60\00:49:05.31
at your journey. You
know, Jeremiah 29:11,
00:49:05.41\00:49:07.84
"'For I know the thoughts
I think toward you,' says
00:49:07.91\00:49:10.21
the Lord, 'thoughts
of peace and not of evil
00:49:10.28\00:49:12.41
to give you a future
and a hope.'" And now,
00:49:12.45\00:49:14.55
you both have a
future and a hope-hope that
00:49:14.62\00:49:17.95
you'll see your dad
again and a future in ministry
00:49:18.02\00:49:21.16
which, when I walk?
this, what's so nice
00:49:21.22\00:49:23.69
about this, Angie, is
I'm hearing our lives.
00:49:23.76\00:49:25.89
- Aw... That's beautiful.
I know. I'm hearing all
00:49:25.99\00:49:29.86
the- you're right,
'cause we had at our
00:49:29.93\00:49:31.67
journey that we've been
on, also...but it's been-
00:49:31.73\00:49:35.07
- And we all do. -
Every one has a story. - Your
00:49:35.10\00:49:38.44
journey may be a
little bit different, but God
00:49:38.51\00:49:39.94
is faithful. -
That's most important. Amen.
00:49:40.01\00:49:43.14
So you're
pastoring two churches now.
00:49:43.24\00:49:44.95
- Yes. - Praise
God. - That's amazing.
00:49:45.05\00:49:47.88
And Sabrina, I take my
hat off to you, because
00:49:47.98\00:49:50.29
my wife went through
what you went through.
00:49:50.39\00:49:51.95
You know, the
Lord calls men, but he
00:49:52.02\00:49:54.79
doesn't just call the
men; he calls the wife,
00:49:54.86\00:49:56.99
too. And when my
wife and I... I always say
00:49:57.06\00:50:00.10
this. I know this is
not a theological thing, but
00:50:00.20\00:50:02.86
I believe that when I
was ordained, the Lord
00:50:02.93\00:50:04.33
anointed both of us for
ministry, because I could
00:50:04.40\00:50:06.90
not be, we could not
be where we are today had
00:50:07.00\00:50:09.94
the Lord not called both
of us. We're going to take
00:50:10.01\00:50:11.97
a short break, a
short news break, and on the
00:50:12.04\00:50:14.38
other side of that,
we'll come back with
00:50:14.44\00:50:16.34
a few closing
thoughts. So, don't go away.
00:50:16.41\00:50:19.31