Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY018065A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:10 Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:12 My name is CA Murray, and allow me once again, 01:14 to thank you for sharing just a little of your, 01:18 no doubt, busy day with us. 01:19 So thank you as always for your love, your prayers, 01:22 your support of this ministry as just shy of 34 years. 01:27 We've been lifting up the name of Jesus, 01:28 spreading the gospel 01:29 to the uttermost parts of the earth, 01:32 and preparing men and women 01:34 for the second coming of our Lord 01:35 and Savior Jesus Christ. 01:36 I want you to draw very closely to the television set today 01:40 and listen with your good ear 01:42 because we've got a very exciting testimony. 01:45 The name is familiar to me 01:47 because I've pastored members of the pastor's family. 01:52 So when I hear the name J. 01:54 Malcolm Phipps Jr., I know that name 01:57 and I know many members of his family, 01:59 his wife Carolyn is here with me. 02:02 And he is pastor 02:03 of the Bethel Seventh-Day Adventist Church 02:08 in Tulsa, North Tulsa, Oklahoma. 02:10 Good to have you here. 02:12 We're glad to be here, appreciate the opportunity. 02:15 Praise the Lord. 02:16 Carolyn is in charge of the soup kitchen 02:18 at the Bethel Church. 02:20 Yes, I am. 02:21 And a lot of what we're going to talk about 02:23 is ministry that the church carries on in the community 02:26 and ministry that you are able to carry 02:28 on during some pretty rough times. 02:32 Yes. Talk about that. 02:34 And I'm sure you can both say that the Lord is good. 02:36 Yes. Absolutely. 02:37 And has kept you through some rough stuff. 02:39 Yes. Very much so. 02:41 For which we praise the Lord. 02:43 Let me ask this question just before we go to our music 02:45 and do some other things. 02:47 Oklahoma as a state, 02:48 is it prone or given to the tornadoes? 02:50 It is. 02:52 It is right in the middle of Tornado Alley. 02:53 Uh-huh. 02:55 And you can expect a tornado every year. 02:59 Is that so? 03:00 Maybe not necessarily in Tulsa. Yeah. 03:02 But somewhere in Oklahoma, there will be a tornado. 03:07 When they build and constructed, 03:08 do they build with that in mind or can you even do that build 03:11 to so that you can withstand a tornado? 03:13 In our rebuild, that is part of what we did. 03:17 There is a new roof or a new roofing system 03:20 that they have now 03:21 that is supposed to help the roof stay on. 03:23 Uh-huh. 03:25 Because the air passes through rather... 03:27 Instead of going in and ballooning it up. 03:28 Right. 03:30 So I suspect you lost your roof. 03:31 Oh, yes. 03:32 I suspect you lost a lot stuff... 03:34 you lost a lot of stuff. 03:36 We're going to talk about that too, 03:37 and I know you brought some pictures with you. 03:39 Before we go to our music, let's get some history, 03:41 graduate of Oakwood College? 03:43 Graduate of Oakwood, 03:45 it was college then, university now. 03:47 Yes. 03:48 And also of Southwestern Adventist, 03:50 I got a theology degree from there. 03:52 Okay, all right. 03:53 In Keene, Texas. 03:56 Started out my ministry as a teacher. 03:59 Uh-huh. 04:01 And Principal in Southwest Region Conference. 04:02 I see. 04:04 Obviously, grew up in an Adventist home. 04:05 Yes. 04:07 Your dad was J. Malcolm Phipps Sr. 04:08 Right. 04:09 And... 04:11 His dad was Frederick Charles Phipps, 04:13 who pastored in the old Allegheny Conference... 04:16 Oh, yes, yes, yes. 04:17 And then his father was St. Clair Monte Phipps, 04:22 who was the first elder of the first Adventist Church 04:26 in Trinidad. 04:27 Have mercy. Is that so? 04:28 So the Phipps' are from... 04:30 You go back far enough, you go to Trinidad? 04:31 Yes, sir. 04:33 I see, I see, I see. 04:34 Now of course as we were talking, 04:35 I pastored members of your family, 04:37 Ed Phipps and his wife Grace 04:39 and Cullen Phipps and his wife Claudette. 04:41 Right. 04:43 We're members of my church, 04:44 the Ephesus Church in Manhattan. 04:45 Those were my dad's first cousin. 04:47 Yes, yes. Their fathers were brothers. 04:48 I'll take a quick story about Edward Phipps, 04:51 who was an elder at the time. 04:53 I was going to a meeting at Atlantic Union Conference 04:57 and heading up to Massachusetts and left my wallet home. 05:02 And I was running a little late, 05:04 so I got stopped. 05:06 And I didn't have my wallet. 05:07 So the policeman said, "Well, you can't drive that car." 05:10 So they took me to jail, 05:13 and I called Bruce Wills who was the Dean of men. 05:16 I said, "You need to come and get me 05:17 'cause I can't drive my car." 05:19 So when they... 05:20 They took me into the cell, who is in the cell next to me 05:23 but Edward Phipps, my elder, 05:27 who also have forgotten his license. 05:32 And he was of course at the time, 05:33 he was Head of the Department of Motor Vehicles 05:35 for Bronx County. 05:36 Wow. 05:37 He was a motor vehicle guy, 05:39 and he's in jail cooling his heels. 05:40 Someone had to sign us out, and we laughed about this, 05:43 and I said, "Elder, if you don't tell anybody, 05:45 I won't tell anybody." 05:47 And of course, 05:48 that story goes back 20 plus years 05:50 and Edward has passed to his rest. 05:52 So I'm free to tell it now, 05:53 that we spent some time in jail together. 05:55 Yeah. 05:56 But great family, great supporters of the church, 05:59 wonderful, wonderful people. 06:01 Now tell me how you guys met. 06:02 In fact, let me go to Carolyn. 06:04 Now you actually do get to talk. 06:05 Okay. I will get the truth from you. 06:07 Okay, I'll tell the truth. 06:09 I'm the guilty party. 06:11 I approached the pastor. Is that so? 06:15 By way of a letter, the old-fashioned way, 06:18 and told him how much I enjoyed 06:21 his Wednesday night prayer meeting, 06:24 and asked if he would come back and do more 06:27 Wednesday night prayer meetings. 06:29 So it took him a while to answer my letter, 06:31 maybe two months. 06:34 So I thought, 06:35 "Oh, he's not interested, so that's okay." 06:39 And I got a letter, 06:41 received a letter about two months later 06:44 saying he's happy that I enjoyed 06:47 his Wednesday night sermon 06:50 and that I needed to ask my pastor 06:53 if he could come back. 06:55 So indeed, I did ask the pastor, 06:58 and he came back. 07:00 So that's how it all got started. 07:03 Okay, let's hit the pause button 07:04 'cause this is kind of intriguing. 07:06 So you get this letter, 07:08 did you read anything into the letter 07:10 rather than just a letter for you 07:12 to come back and speak or was that kind of neutral? 07:15 'Cause you kind of took your time responding. 07:17 Well, the letter was perfumed. 07:23 There's a little hint. 07:24 And the letter was not as dry as she made it. 07:30 And I was a little hesitant 07:34 because I didn't want to commit myself 07:37 as soon as that, 07:39 and from what I could read from the letter, 07:41 she was not looking for something casual. 07:43 Uh-huh. 07:45 And so I took time 07:49 because I needed to think it through. 07:50 Yes. 07:52 And then I sent a response. 07:54 So you put a little something in the letter, 07:55 a little hook in the letter. 07:57 Just a little. Yeah. 07:59 Now the truth comes out. Yes. 08:00 Oh, yeah. Yes. 08:02 So you could tell 08:04 there was something more than just an invitation. 08:07 Had you known each other or met each other 08:09 over in another time 08:11 or this was really kind of preliminary stuff? 08:13 Her pastor, Elder Durand Fords, a very good friend of mine, 08:17 we've been friends since childhood almost, 08:21 have been trying to hook us up. 08:22 He'd been trying to get us together. 08:25 And he had introduced me, you know, 08:28 I'd be standing in line with the pastors at church, 08:30 he'd introduced me to her, 08:32 and he'd give me a little nudge, 08:33 like that's the one. 08:35 And she always wore these long dresses 08:40 and tent-like, she was very conservative. 08:43 And so she was nice and she was pretty 08:46 but, you know... 08:48 We were at a gas station one day, Pastor Ford and I, 08:52 and this BMW pulls up 08:55 and this woman in the sundress gets out. 08:58 And I was like, "Who is that?" 09:00 And he said, "That's nobody but Carolyn. 09:03 I've been trying to tell you." 09:05 I said, "I must find out about this lady, " 09:07 and I got out of the car and went and introduced myself. 09:11 And things sort of picked up from there. 09:14 Uh-huh. 09:17 Obviously, you were intrigued and I just need to ask who... 09:21 This was post that letter or before that letter? 09:23 This was after the letter? 09:25 This was after the letter. Okay, okay. 09:26 So the letters had been exchanged. 09:28 That's right. 09:30 And obviously, something happened 09:33 because you're here today. 09:34 But in whose mind did 09:36 the idea of marriage first appear, 09:38 do you think? 09:40 I think it was in her mind. Yes. 09:42 Because... 09:49 Her pastor, now there were two pastors involved, 09:52 we had Elder Ford and you had Elder James Cox. 09:54 Uh-huh, I know James Cox. Okay. 09:56 Well, Ford was her pastor 09:58 who brought her into the church. 09:59 I see. 10:00 He was the one who baptized her. 10:02 Pastor Cox was her current pastor. 10:04 And the Pastor Cox was in cahoots with Elder Ford. 10:10 And so he gave me tickets to a Kirk Franklin concert. 10:15 Uh-huh. 10:17 And suggested that maybe I should take Carolyn. 10:18 Uh-huh. 10:20 And so I asked her to go, and on our way to dinner, 10:27 we were invited to dinner at someone's house, 10:29 she let me know on the way to dinner 10:32 that she wasn't interested in just dating to be dating. 10:37 If it wasn't leading anywhere, 10:38 then she wasn't wasting her time. 10:40 I see. 10:41 And so she said, "You're an attractive man 10:44 and you probably have somebody somewhere, 10:47 you need to get that straight and then get with me." 10:51 So you kind of put that all out on the table. 10:52 She put it all on... 10:54 Well, God bless you. 10:55 Upfront and immediately, yes, I did. 10:58 No sense in just killing clock time, 11:01 we need to be going somewhere. 11:02 Exactly. Praise the Lord. 11:03 Well said, and well done. 11:05 Thank you. That did not scare you away? 11:07 No. No. 11:09 I was just like okay. 11:13 This is either all in or nothing. 11:15 Oh, yes, sir. 11:18 And x number of years later here you are, praise the Lord. 11:21 Happily married. Yes, thank God. 11:23 And we thank God for it. 11:25 You started out teaching 11:27 and went back to school into ministry, 11:30 and you land in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 11:33 let's pick up the story 11:35 there before our time gets away from us. 11:37 And then I want to take a moment 11:39 and go to the meeting. 11:41 But tell us, give me a little of the culture of the church. 11:43 This is pre all of this drama, but tell me about the church 11:46 and you're coming to the church and how you found that church. 11:49 Okay. 11:52 I am a community pastor is how I termed myself. 11:56 Wherever I go, I try to, 12:00 first of all, join a ministerial alliance. 12:02 I did always the same thing. Okay. 12:04 And then get involved in the community, 12:06 whatever is happening. 12:10 So I ended up 12:12 joining the North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Conference. 12:15 Uh-huh. 12:17 I've been in the conference for a year 12:20 and they asked me to be the treasurer. 12:22 And I told them, "I'm not going to do that, 12:25 I'd rather not do that." 12:27 I said, "This is a Baptist Ministers Conference, 12:29 I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist pastor, 12:32 I would not want to handle the money, 12:34 that's a recipe for bad things." 12:36 Yes, yes. 12:37 But it is also a testament to their trust 12:40 and respect for you, as a matter of fact. 12:42 I recognized that, but I was afraid to do that. 12:44 Yes, sir. 12:46 So the next year, they asked me 12:48 to be the vice president of the conference. 12:51 And so I told the president now, 12:56 "I'm Seventh-Day Adventist pastor." 12:58 He said, "I know that." 12:59 I said, "And you asking me to be the Vice President 13:02 of the North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Conference?" 13:04 He said, "I know that." 13:07 I said, "Okay." 13:09 And so then they asked me to be over the ministers helps, 13:14 which is like continuing education 13:17 but a pastors that they have do, 13:18 you know, these weekly sessions. 13:20 Yes. 13:21 And so I said, "Are you sure you want me to do that?" 13:26 I said, "I can only teach what I know." 13:28 Precisely. 13:30 "I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist pastor, 13:32 are you sure you want me to...?" 13:33 He said, "Didn't I ask you?" 13:36 I said, "Okay." 13:38 So they learned the Three Angels Message, 13:40 and the Sabbath, and the state of the dead, 13:42 and the health message, and... 13:44 All right. 13:45 What you were hoping was what you got, you know. 13:47 I could give them what I know. 13:50 Praise the Lord. 13:51 So this is my second term as the vice president. 13:53 All right, praise the Lord. 13:54 I'm also member of the NAACP in the Southern Christian 13:58 Leadership Conference chapter... 13:59 Oh, praise the Lord. In that city. 14:02 And we make it our business to attend 14:06 the town hall meetings of the city councilperson. 14:09 So we try to stay involved in the community. 14:13 Yeah. Well done. And I appreciate that. 14:14 Ellen White does say, 14:16 "Draw near to ministers of other faiths." 14:17 She makes that statement, "Draw near to them 14:19 and let your light shine before them also." 14:22 So you're doing that, and that's a good thing, 14:25 and then working with the government. 14:26 I did that when I was in New York City 14:28 all those years. 14:29 It's a positive thing to be sought in light 14:31 in some of those associations, so kudos and good for you. 14:35 I think I want to put hit the pause button right there 14:37 and go to our music 14:38 because once we get into this the drama of the story, 14:42 I don't want to pause. 14:43 We're going to call Yvonne Lewis-Shelton here, 14:49 a good friend of the ministry 14:50 and now the Dare To Dream General Manager. 14:53 She does a very beautiful song, 14:55 and it's called In Christ Alone. 15:16 In Christ alone my hope is found 15:21 He is my light, my strength, my song 15:26 This cornerstone, this solid ground 15:32 Firm through the fiercest drought and storm 15:37 What heights of love, what depths of peace 15:42 When fears are stilled and strivings cease 15:47 My comforter, my all in all 15:53 Here in the love of Christ I stand 16:05 In Christ alone 16:08 Who took on flesh 16:11 Fullness of God in helpless babe 16:16 This gift of love and righteousness 16:21 Scorned by the ones He came to save 16:26 Till on that cross as Jesus died 16:31 The wrath of God was satisfied 16:37 For every sin on Him was laid 16:42 Here in the death of Christ I live 17:08 There in the ground 17:11 His body lay 17:14 Light of the world by darkness slain 17:18 Then bursting forth in glorious day 17:24 Up from the grave He rose again 17:29 And as He stands in victory 17:34 Since curse has lost its grip on me 17:39 For I am His and He is mine 17:45 Bought with the precious blood of Christ 17:58 No guilt in life, no fear in death 18:03 This is the power of Christ in me 18:08 From life's first cry to final breath 18:14 Jesus commands my destiny 18:18 No power of hell, no scheme of man 18:24 Can ever pluck me from His hand 18:32 Till He returns to take me home 18:37 Here in the power of Christ I'll stand 18:42 No power of hell, no scheme of man 18:47 Can ever pluck me from His hand 18:58 Here in the power 19:01 Of Christ 19:06 I'll stand 19:22 Thank you, Yvonne Lewis-Shelton. 19:25 Well done, beautiful song. 19:28 My guests are J. Malcolm Phipps Jr. 19:30 and his lovely wife Carolyn. 19:32 And we just got a little past their meeting 19:35 and an exciting meeting that was. 19:39 We praise the Lord for that. 19:41 But now you're coming to Tulsa to pastor, 19:44 and you were giving me 19:45 just a little flavor of the church. 19:47 Yes. 19:48 Well, so my church, 19:50 just as I try to be involved in the community, 19:53 my first task, I felt 19:54 was to involve the church in the community. 19:57 And so 20:00 we have several different outreach programs. 20:03 The first thing we did was try to purchase a bus. 20:06 Uh-huh. 20:08 'Cause you can't really reach the community, 20:09 especially in urban setting 20:12 if you don't have a way to get people to church 20:14 because many times they don't have a way. 20:16 Yes. 20:17 And so if you don't have a vehicle 20:19 where you can pick them up and bring them to church, 20:20 they're not going to be there. 20:22 And so first thing we did was try to get a vehicle 20:25 and then after that, 20:27 we had a young lady by the name of Valida Thomas, 20:31 who was our youth leader. 20:33 And she and her assistant Gail Heron 20:37 proposed that we start a Vacation Bible School 20:40 in one of the housing projects called Apache Manor. 20:43 Uh-huh. 20:44 And so we did that, took the bus, went out there, 20:47 and brought the kids to the church, 20:49 and we started that. 20:51 And out of that, 20:53 we grew a pathfinder club, 20:56 Bethel Mighty Thunder Pathfinder Club. 21:00 And from that pathfinder club, 21:04 we baptized about five, six, seven people. 21:08 Praise the Lord. 21:10 Even today, the pathfinder club is still operating 21:12 even though we don't have our own church. 21:14 But the pathfinder club is still going on, 21:17 Elder Antonio Thompson is the pathfinder leader. 21:21 And most of the club, I would say, 21:24 certainly half of the club, are non-Adventist. 21:26 Wow, praise the Lord. 21:27 So it is still being used as a witnessing tool 21:31 and we're still trying to win young people. 21:34 Now let me ask you something, pastor, 21:35 because obviously you came to the church with a vision 21:38 for community outreach 21:40 and some may say extreme community outreach, 21:42 I think it's just where it ought to be. 21:44 Did you have to kind of drag your church 21:45 kicking and screaming 21:47 or did they buy in to your vision 21:49 of moving out into the community? 21:51 Well, they bought into the vision 21:53 but they didn't buy into the vision. 21:56 What I mean is they thought it was a good idea, 22:00 but they didn't want to spend any money to do it. 22:03 So getting the bus was a trial, I mean... 22:06 And then when we got it, 22:07 you know, we really couldn't afford brand new ones, 22:09 so there were some issues with it. 22:10 Yes. 22:12 And they were, 22:13 "See, we wasted all that money, we..." 22:14 So we had to go through that, but in the long run, 22:18 they have seen the benefit of it 22:19 because there are souls who've been won as a result. 22:24 The other outreach 22:25 that we have gotten into is community service 22:29 and there was a strong community service program going 22:31 when I got there, that was with Elder Barnes, 22:33 Elder Sheila Barnes. 22:36 She does an outstanding job passing out food 22:39 and commodities, clothing, diapers, that type of thing, 22:43 and twice a month on Wednesdays, 22:46 they would come in for that. 22:49 Those same two young ladies, Alita and Gale 22:52 started what they call Pathfinder Pathways, 22:55 which was the idea was a soup kitchen 23:00 where people could come and get hot meals. 23:04 And they never quite got it off the ground 23:06 but they were packing up meals 23:09 and taking them out to the homeless. 23:13 But they sort of got behind with it. 23:15 And so in order to make it run more efficiently, 23:20 Sister Phipps took over helping them with that. 23:23 I see. 23:24 And they changed the name to the Soup Kitchen at Bethel. 23:28 Uh-huh. 23:29 And we actually started preparing hot meals 23:31 at the church, 23:32 and as people came in to the community service, 23:36 while they were waiting, they could get a hot meal. 23:38 I see. 23:40 And then we also began serving meals on Sabbaths, 23:43 and I will stop now and let her tell her own mission 23:46 because that's what she is here for. 23:49 We started it about 2014, 23:54 and it happened right on Thanksgiving Day. 23:57 So we have people come in 24:00 to have a hot Thanksgiving dinner 24:03 and let me say, nutritious. 24:06 So we had some firemen come in, 24:08 we had policemen come in, 24:11 we had people from the street come in. 24:14 So we were very happy about that 24:16 and they seemed to really have enjoyed the food 24:20 and the fellowship... 24:22 Yes. And the prayer. 24:24 We would always pray. 24:26 We would ask if they had any prayer requests. 24:30 So some would, some would not, 24:32 we would always have literature out on the table 24:36 so that they could take that with them and read later 24:39 if they wanted to, and they always did that. 24:42 So we started out just a little slow, 24:46 but as the word got out, they were coming. 24:51 Praise the Lord. 24:52 And we were so thankful 24:53 because we are supposed to feed the hungry, 24:56 the Lord tells us that. 24:58 So we felt really good about it, 25:00 and it continued until the tornado. 25:07 And after that, we still would make bags, 25:12 lunches to go out and give to the homeless. 25:16 And I would like to tell one quick story about that, 25:20 they went out with the bags that lunch bags, 25:23 and one guy said, "No, I don't want anything 25:26 because I can't eat it anyway, 25:28 it's unclean, you know, unclean foods. 25:31 And you got your pork, and whatever, 25:33 baloney or whatever, so I don't want it." 25:36 So they gave him the bag, he did look in it, and he said, 25:41 "Oh, thank God, I can eat everything in this bag." 25:47 Come to find out, of course he was homeless, 25:50 and he was also Adventist. 25:55 So that really touched our hearts, 25:57 and he did ask for literature, and he was given that. 26:01 But it was such a heartfelt story, 26:05 a true story that you never know 26:08 who you will touch, 26:10 who you will find out there in need. 26:12 Yes, yes. 26:14 So it's been a true blessing, 26:15 and we cannot wait to get back into the kitchen 26:21 to start cooking again. 26:22 Yes, yes. 26:23 Yes, when things are finished. 26:25 All right, well done. 26:26 Pastor, walk me through this devastation, 26:29 what happened, how did it come, 26:30 how did it take place, 26:31 just give me a bit of the culture of that 26:33 whole experience. 26:34 Okay, if I could back up just for a minute. 26:37 Sure. 26:39 It was not just... 26:41 We also served on Sabbath. Yes. 26:43 Sabbath morning, 26:45 we serve breakfast to those who came with the bus ministry 26:48 and anybody was welcome. 26:50 Yes, yes. 26:51 But it was specifically for the children 26:52 that were coming with the bus ministry. 26:54 We found out that many times they were hungry... 26:56 Yes, yes. 26:58 When they came to church. 27:00 And so we had a breakfast for them 27:01 and we had homeless people 27:03 came in off the street would eat breakfast. 27:06 And of course, we let them know that, 27:07 you know, we have church today 27:09 and after church, we'll be serving again. 27:11 And so many times 27:12 they would stay for church and eat again, you know. 27:14 Praise the Lord. 27:16 Now how big a church are we talking about, 27:17 membership-wise? 27:19 Membership wise, book membership is about 153. 27:22 We had about half of that before the tornado, 27:25 at about 70 coming. 27:26 Okay. 27:27 So you're doing a lot 27:29 with a relatively small membership 27:31 but you're doing a lot of stuff. 27:32 Yes. Yeah. 27:33 And of course, 27:35 after being out of our church for two years, 27:36 folk have gotten discouraged. 27:38 Yes, yes. 27:39 And so we're down to about half of what we had 27:41 before the tornado came but we're hanging in there. 27:43 Praise the Lord. 27:44 And we're still doing ministry, still reaching out. 27:47 Yeah, yeah. 27:48 Let's move into this whole tornado thing. 27:51 Now I know we've got some pictures, 27:53 we got to weave in here. 27:54 I've not seen them. 27:56 So if they sort of amplify your story, 27:58 just call for them, we'll put them up. 28:00 But when did this tornado take place? 28:02 And talk to me about the devastation 28:03 before, during, after. 28:04 Okay. 28:06 We were in prayer meeting 28:07 on Wednesday, the 30th of March, 2016. 28:12 And all of a sudden, 28:14 everybody's cell phones went off. 28:17 And right after everybody's cell phones went off, 28:22 we started hearing wind noises 28:25 and silts started coming down from the ceiling. 28:28 So that was the alert that a general word was sent out 28:31 through everybody's cell phone. 28:32 Right. Okay. 28:33 And the siren, the city sirens came on. 28:35 Uh-huh. 28:36 And members said, 28:38 "Pastor, do you think we better go home?" 28:40 I said, "I don't think so," 28:42 I said, "I think we better move out of here though 'because..." 28:44 Yeah, yeah. 28:46 And as I was speaking, the roof started coming off. 28:48 And so we... 28:49 Are you kidding? No. 28:50 So we got out into the foyer, 28:53 the building construction is cinder block. 28:57 And so once we got into the foyer, 28:58 it was a lot safer. 28:59 Yes. 29:01 So there was a like a nook out there 29:03 and we all huddled in that nook 29:04 and just covered ourselves and prayed. 29:06 Now no advance warning, nothing as... 29:08 Before the cell phones, no advance warning, 29:11 nothing that this thing was coming? 29:12 The sun was shining, the birds were singing, 29:14 it was a beautiful day. 29:15 Have mercy. 29:17 And all of a sudden, it got dark. 29:20 And the phones went off, the city sirens went off, 29:25 and I mean, within seconds, we had to get out of there. 29:28 So from the time the phones went off 29:30 to the time anything actually hit, 29:31 we're talking how long? 29:33 Ten to fifteen seconds. 29:35 Oh, my soul. Yeah. 29:37 And so one of the members who was running a little late, 29:43 as we were going out into the foyer, 29:47 she walked in the front door and no sooner did she walk in, 29:51 then the bricks over the front door fell 29:53 in that spot where she just came from. 29:55 Wow. Wow. 29:58 We saw a whole lot of miraculous things. 30:00 Indeed, indeed, indeed. 30:02 So you're huddled in the... 30:05 In the foyer. 30:06 Give me some sense of the mood of the people there. 30:11 Well, I'll say this, no one was crying, 30:14 no one was screaming. 30:15 Praise the Lord. 30:18 People were just praying. 30:20 Everybody was just praying. 30:22 Yes, yes, yes. 30:23 Wow. Yeah. 30:25 We were huddled in a group. 30:26 So the roof is coming off and bricks are falling, 30:29 what else is happening to the structure? 30:33 Well, we didn't know everything that was happening, 30:38 we found out later, but what we did know was that 30:40 no sooner had we left the sanctuary, 30:43 then the upstairs fell into the sanctuary. 30:47 Wow. Okay? 30:48 So we missed that. 30:50 Just as we missed that, the lady missed 30:52 the bricks falling on her, coming... 30:56 But afterward, we found out 30:58 how bad the damage actually was. 30:59 Sure. 31:01 Because that sanctuary, 31:04 the construction had these huge wooden arches 31:08 that hold up everything. 31:09 Yes, yes. 31:10 They had literally been pulled up out of their sockets. 31:15 So this is the sanctuary pre... 31:18 That's the sanctuary before the tornado. 31:20 Yes, it was before the tornado hit. 31:22 That's a nice looking little sanctuary. 31:23 Uh-huh. 31:24 And you don't get to see... 31:26 So that's the building in front outside? 31:27 That's the building before the tornado hit, yes. 31:31 That's a nice little church building. 31:33 But those beams have been pulled up out of their sockets 31:36 and they had steel socket. 31:38 Oh, yes, yeah 'cause wood comes down 31:40 into the steel thing and that's bolted. 31:42 The socket is about this deep and there is a bolt 31:45 that runs through the beam and the socket. 31:49 Precisely, I know the construction. 31:51 It had pulled the beam out of the socket, bolt and all, 31:56 and set it behind the socket. 31:58 Yeah, just moved it out of the socket. 32:00 Yes. 32:01 Wow. Wow. 32:03 How long are we talking? 32:04 I mean, because time gets compressed 32:06 when you have these kind of things going on, 32:07 you know, just a minute seems like an hour, 32:09 an hour seems like a day, 32:11 as best you can tell, 32:12 how long did this shake rattle and rolling going on? 32:15 No more than a couple of minutes. 32:17 Yeah. 32:18 Two, three minutes. 32:20 And when it was over, the sun came back out 32:23 and the birds started singing 32:25 just like you would have thought... 32:27 You would have thought nothing happened, 32:29 except the church was gone. 32:31 It was gone, yeah. 32:32 Man, oh, man. 32:35 And no loss of life, praise the Lord. 32:38 No loss of life, not even any injuries, 32:40 nobody was hurt. 32:42 Oh, praise God, praise God. 32:44 That shows you how suddenly this kind of thing can come, 32:47 from a sunshiny day... 32:48 Yes. 32:50 To a... 32:51 And did they determine how strong this tornado was? 32:53 F2. F2. 32:54 So this is something serious, to be taken seriously. 32:57 From sunshine to F2, back to sunshine. 33:01 Yes. 33:03 And in the meanwhile, the church is destroyed. 33:06 Wow, wow. 33:07 Was the building even habitable after this? 33:11 No. Okay. 33:12 Because it tore the roof off. 33:14 Yes. 33:15 Half of the building had no roof and it rained... 33:19 You know, because with the tornado, came rain. 33:22 And so I think they're getting ready to show the video now, 33:25 it shows the damage afterward. 33:26 All right. 33:27 But it rained in the building, 33:30 we had about two or three inches of standing water. 33:33 Okay, so your building is... 33:35 So it was... 33:37 Within three days after the tornado, 33:40 we had mold running up the wall. 33:42 Sure, yeah, yeah, it's caught just that fast, just that fast. 33:45 Let's take a look at this video and kind of get a concept 33:48 of what Pastor Phipps is talking about. 33:56 Oh, yeah, it hit the church. 33:58 It hit the church, not went over us but... 34:02 It straight up hit the church. 34:21 This is the east side of the church. 34:25 As you can see as the front is gone, 34:31 the roof is destroyed. 34:34 From the inside, it only looked like halfway gone 34:36 but from outside, you can see it's gone, 34:38 the roof is destroyed all the way 34:40 to the back of the church just about. 34:45 This is the... 34:46 Anybody call the gas company yet? 34:48 No, somebody needs to call them. 34:49 Please, call them 34:52 and let them know that the gas is real strong. 34:55 That's the next thing I'm afraid it might blow up. 34:57 I already called the fire department. 34:58 Okay. 35:08 Now, pastor, I'm glad 35:09 we got a chance to see the before picture 35:12 so you can see the extent of the devastation, 35:14 doesn't look like the same building. 35:15 No. 35:17 And that happened in just a matter of minutes, 35:18 and the roof is completely gone. 35:20 Now I heard you say in the video 35:23 that you were smelling gas. 35:24 Yes. 35:25 Yeah, so you had some ongoing danger. 35:28 Well, the gas line, when it took the roof, 35:31 it snapped, the gas line. 35:33 Uh-huh. 35:34 And I mean, you could hear and smell... 35:38 The hiss. 35:39 The gas, and it was very loud hiss, 35:42 and the smell was very strong. 35:44 Yeah, yeah. 35:46 And so my fear was the thing was going to blow up 35:49 'cause you had live wires hanging out, 35:51 you know, hanging down and everything. 35:53 Yeah, you had a recipe 35:54 for major, major catastrophe and disaster. 35:59 But evidently, God was with you. 36:00 Yeah, the first responders got there. 36:01 Uh-huh. 36:03 They got there very soon, and they turned the gas off, 36:06 and then... 36:07 So what could have been even worse was prevented. 36:11 Praise the Lord. 36:13 Were there other structures in the general vicinity 36:15 of the church that were damaged at all? 36:17 Every Church on 46th Street North got hit. 36:21 Every church? Every church. 36:25 Every church. 36:27 Every church was nailed. My soul. 36:30 And one was beyond repair. 36:33 They had to tear that one down. 36:34 The rest of them have been repaired. 36:36 Ours is the last one to be repaired. 36:40 The... 36:41 There were about what five churches overall? 36:42 Yes, about five churches. 36:44 About five churches... 36:45 And everybody got hit? Yes. 36:47 How did... 36:48 Once an assessment was made of what happened, 36:51 how much was salvageable? 36:53 How much is you have to...? 36:54 If you have mold growing out the wall, 36:55 everywhere mold is, got to come down, 36:57 that cannot be, 36:58 you know, you got to rip those walls out, 37:00 you got to take that out. 37:01 So how much of the church was salvageable? 37:05 Just the outside framework, the outside, the stone, 37:10 that's it. 37:11 Okay, so you got it from inside... 37:14 Inside was completely gutted out. 37:15 Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's a major project, yeah. 37:19 Give me the mood 37:21 of the church body during this time 37:23 because this kind of thing, pastor, as you well know, 37:26 this kind of makes... 37:27 If you got anything, 37:29 it's going to show during this time. 37:30 You can either shake your fist at God and turn and run away 37:32 or you can either roll up your sleeves 37:35 and let's get cracking. 37:36 What was the mood of your church? 37:40 The best way I can put that is that 37:44 we've had a core, 37:46 and I would say it's about half of the membership 37:48 who was coming at the time, who have stuck. 37:51 Praise the Lord. 37:53 They've stuck, they've hung in there, 37:54 they're not going anywhere, 37:56 they're going to make this work whatever. 37:59 And the other half have forsaken our sinful aid. 38:03 Uh-huh. 38:06 Well, you know, as you will know, pastor, 38:08 that's the way it is in life, 38:09 you never get a hundred percent. 38:10 That's right. 38:12 But if you have enough, who have enough, 38:14 Jesus in them to put some spine in their backbone, 38:18 they'll stick it out, and they'll rebuild, 38:21 and they'll start again. 38:22 So obviously, you got a core people... 38:23 We've a core who are serious. 38:25 They are not going anywhere, 38:26 they're going to see it through, 38:30 and that is what has kept us going. 38:32 Yeah. 38:34 Where are you meeting because this is... 38:36 we're talking about 2016 and it's not complete yet. 38:39 So where are you meeting? Where's the church meeting? 38:41 Well, see, this is what comes from having 38:45 good relationship with the community. 38:48 There was a church who was out of their church 38:52 and they used our church 38:55 while they were rebuilding their church. 38:59 And we charged them $600 a month. 39:03 So when we were out of our church, 39:07 they let us come to their church 39:08 that they had rebuilt. 39:09 Praise the Lord. 39:11 And they charged us $600 a month. 39:15 See, and that's because 39:17 there was a pre-existing relationship. 39:18 You didn't have to go finding a relationship, you had one. 39:21 Yeah. 39:22 And that's just to give you an idea, 39:25 we had our youth federation, ...facility wasn't big enough, 39:31 we rented another facility for Friday and Sabbath, 39:36 and that was $600 for those 2 days. 39:41 So they got some contact for that $600 a month. 39:44 Yes, yes. 39:47 And that was the church. 39:48 Yes, yes. It was $600 for 2 days. 39:52 So these people charged us $600 a month. 39:56 Praise the Lord. 39:57 When we left there, there was another church, 40:02 again, the pastor and I 40:04 were in the ministerial alliance together. 40:06 This is a CME church, 40:08 a Christian Methodist Episcopal. 40:10 But the pastor and I were both members 40:12 of the North Tulsa Baptist Ministers Conference. 40:15 And when he heard that 40:17 I was going to need to move out of the church where I was, 40:19 he said, "Well, come on over." 40:20 Yeah. 40:22 And I said, "Well, how much am I going to need 40:24 to compensate you?" 40:26 He said, "What are you paying over there?" 40:28 I said, "Six hundred a month." He said, "Six hundred a month." 40:34 See, when you cast your bread upon the waters 40:36 and you make these kind of friendships, 40:38 in times of need, 40:40 the Christ in them will come out 40:42 and great things can happen. 40:44 When I was pastoring Bethesda and Amityville, the same thing, 40:47 we actually had mold in one of our columns, 40:49 those prefab columns that come from the ceiling to the floor, 40:51 that had to be replaced. 40:53 So we had to be out of the building. 40:54 We went down street to Hollywood Baptist Church. 40:57 I had known the pastor from the ministerial alliance, 40:59 he said, "Come on down." 41:01 And we were there a couple months 41:03 and no problem, no problem. 41:05 It's good. Yeah. 41:06 So when you show yourself friendly and see, 41:08 good is what good people do, 41:10 not because they're trying to get something back 41:13 but that's what good people do, that's what Christians do, 41:16 and there are times we need to call upon that goodness, 41:18 and it's there for you 'cause your put something in, 41:20 you can take something out. 41:21 So the building begins, 41:26 the rebuilding begins, 41:29 talk to me a little bit about that 41:30 'cause that must be staggering. 41:32 It's not a big, big congregation, 41:33 but you got a big, big job now. 41:35 That's correct. Yeah. 41:36 Well, it has been 41:40 a very, very difficult trial. 41:44 There was differences of opinion 41:46 between the contractor, and the architect, 41:50 and the insurance company as to how much 41:54 it was going to cost to rebuild the building. 41:57 The architect and the contractor felt that 41:59 it was going to cost between $800,000 and $900,000. 42:03 The insurance company felt like 42:05 it should only cost about $600,000 and $700,000. 42:09 And so it has turned out 42:11 that it was what they said it was. 42:16 So we are... 42:17 You know, and then on top of that, 42:19 we had the mold damage. 42:20 Well, the insurance company said that 42:22 we were not covered for mold. 42:25 But according to Oklahoma law 42:28 we are covered for water damage. 42:31 And on the Oklahoma law, 42:32 water damage and mold is the same thing. 42:34 Well, praise the Lord. 42:35 So they did have to pay us something for the mold. 42:39 But again, the mold company said 42:42 it was going to cost $300,000 42:45 to clean up that church. 42:46 Wow. 42:48 Insurance company felt like 42:49 it should only cost about $150,000. 42:52 And that's what we got. 42:53 And so to make... 42:57 Yeah, those companies are in business 42:58 to make you rich, you know. 43:01 And I want to just hit the pause button 43:03 there for a second and go to you, Carolyn, 43:05 because one of the things that I saw in the notes is that 43:07 while you were out and wrestling with this stuff 43:10 and this is headache, 43:11 I mean, this is the stuff you got to deal with, 43:13 the church kept up its ministries 43:15 and its community outreach. 43:17 Talk to me a little bit about that. 43:18 Okay, we certainly did. 43:19 It was difficult because so many members had left 43:24 but the Lord only needs a few, 43:27 just a few to keep His work going. 43:30 So we no longer had a kitchen to prepare the food. 43:35 So we had to go back to the bag lunches again. 43:40 And we would take those out into the community again, 43:43 that was successful. 43:44 Praise God for that. 43:47 We also started a glove ministry. 43:52 G- l-o-v-e. 43:54 G- l-o-v-e-s, gloves for your hands. 43:57 Uh-huh. 43:59 During the winter time, of course. 44:00 Uh-huh. 44:02 And I was just riding around, and I stopped at a restaurant, 44:05 and there was a homeless guy there, 44:08 and I noticed that the weather had weathered 44:12 and damaged his fingers 44:16 to the point where they were black and scarred. 44:20 And I asked, 44:21 "Sir, is there anything I can do for you? 44:24 I do have gloves in the car. 44:27 They may not be the color you would want." 44:30 So he said, "Miss, anything that you can give me is okay, 44:34 the color doesn't matter." 44:36 So I went back down to the car 44:38 and all I found were pink gloves. 44:43 And I came back in a bit disappointed to him, and said, 44:46 "Sir, this is all I have, just the pink ones." 44:50 And he said, "Miss, it doesn't matter, 44:54 they will help me. 44:56 I thank God for you." 44:58 So he put the gloves on immediately 45:02 and he was so thankful, 45:04 so that really made me feel good, 45:06 just something that simple. 45:07 Yes, yes. 45:09 So we will continue with that, the glove ministry. 45:14 So... 45:15 She would go out to the Dollar store and buy... 45:17 And buy bulk. 45:19 Whole bunch of gloves and just ride around 45:21 passing them out to... 45:23 Bless your heart, bless your heart. 45:24 So she frightened me a little bit 45:26 'cause some of the places 45:27 she was going to pass out the gloves... 45:31 You got to take the name of Jesus with you... 45:33 Yes, you do. 45:34 Yes, you do, then you're equipped. 45:37 Another ministry we found a need for was the... 45:42 We would package up 45:44 different items, personal items, 45:46 and we would call those bags personal care bags. 45:51 And anytime someone needed those, 45:54 we would pass those out. 45:57 We have blue bags for the males, 45:59 we had pink for the females 46:02 with the different items, including personal hygiene. 46:07 Yeah. 46:09 Here's what I salute you for, 46:10 the idea that you're trying to get back in your building, 46:14 you could realistically spend every penny 46:18 on getting back into that building, 46:20 to the neglect of those other kinds of things 46:22 that you're doing. 46:24 But you saw benefit in the fact 46:27 that you need to keep doing these ministries, 46:29 you need to keep reaching out. 46:31 So this is taking resources 46:32 that some might say with some argument, 46:35 "Well, we need to put this thing 46:36 back in our building." 46:38 But you don't want to cut off your ministry... 46:39 And there were some who did say that. 46:40 Yes, yes. 46:42 We were determined that 46:43 we were not going to let the pathfinder club die 46:46 and we were not gonna let the ministry die, 46:48 whatever outreach we could do, we tried to do. 46:52 So not only did you hold on to what you were doing, 46:55 you added stuff. 46:56 You know, you're adding ministries 46:57 while you're trying to get back in your building, 47:00 and I think that's commendable. 47:03 As a matter of fact, 47:05 we had our conference wide camporee. 47:10 Our club, even though 47:12 they don't have any place really to do 47:15 what they want to do, 47:17 they are doing it at home and in people's house, 47:20 what time, maybe the hour after church 47:22 and the church we're renting, 47:26 they came in second place at the camporee. 47:31 So we were very proud of that. 47:32 Praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 47:34 And with a large number 47:35 of non-Adventists attending there. 47:39 As we look at the church, 47:40 how far are you along in the remodel? 47:43 Could you say quarter of the way, 47:44 half the way, third of the way, where...? 47:45 We are in the last phase. 47:49 In fact, our... 47:53 So this is the part of the... 47:56 What am I looking at here? 47:58 Oh, that's the rebuild. Oh, okay. 48:00 Yeah, that's the rebuild. 48:02 Oh, I see the columns... 48:03 That's the early part of the rebuild. 48:05 Yes, yes, yes. 48:07 But we are at the phase now where the outside is complete. 48:10 Uh-huh. 48:11 And the sheetrock is all up on the inside, 48:14 sheetrock, electrical, plumbing, all that's done. 48:16 Praise the Lord. 48:17 And so the drop ceilings, and the sound system, 48:22 and all that have to go into sanctuary. 48:24 And we're trying to the... 48:27 We want to give thanks to our Union Conference 48:31 and our conference, 48:33 our Conference President Elder Watkins, 48:35 the Secretary, Elder Brooks, 48:37 and the Treasurer, Elder Palmer. 48:40 They went to the Union and the Union President 48:43 gave us an allocation of $90,000 48:46 to try to get us back in our sanctuary. 48:48 And so we want to publicly say thank you for that 48:53 because it looks like we'll be able to go back 48:55 in just the sanctuary now, 48:57 the city has already said 48:59 that they will allow us back in the sanctuary 49:02 if these requirements were met. 49:04 Yes. 49:05 And so we're looking 49:07 at the end of August, beginning of September, 49:10 we'll be at least be able to get back in the sanctuary. 49:12 Sanctuary, praise God, praise God. 49:14 And so now we're trying to come up with the funds 49:17 to reopen our kitchen and the fellowship hall, 49:19 the community service area. 49:20 So that's the next thing on the list. 49:22 That is the next thing on that list 49:23 so that we can get back out there. 49:26 So you want to get in so you can get out. 49:28 That's right. Yes. 49:29 We want to get back in the street helping people. 49:31 Yeah. Praise the Lord. 49:33 I think the Lord's going to honor that. 49:35 Your president is Calvin Watkins? 49:36 Yes. Yes, sir. 49:37 I have known him many, many, many, many, many, years. 49:40 Steven Brooks is the Secretary. Yes. 49:42 And the Treasurer is Philip Palmer. 49:43 Philip Palmer, uh-huh, I know your administration. 49:46 Praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 49:47 So you're nearing home. Yes. 49:49 And to be at this point having been where you were 49:54 and to see that you're almost back, 49:56 give me some mood, 49:57 some sense of the mood of the church 50:00 at this point of time. 50:01 Oh, it's like a cloud has been lifted, 50:04 a bird has been raised, 50:07 the folk are happy, the folks are excited, 50:09 they are very excited about it, 50:10 looks like we're going to actually go back home. 50:12 Yeah. 50:14 Let me ask you this, Pastor Malcolm, 50:15 because obviously high on your agenda 50:19 was the continuing of the ministries. 50:22 Do you think that that in any way... 50:26 How can I put this? 50:27 You know, I think the Lord honors 50:29 those who honor Him and honor His work. 50:31 The fact that you didn't just turn inside... 50:33 You remember the story in Haggai, 50:36 everybody's building their own house 50:37 and things are going... 50:39 You didn't just say we're going to get the house, 50:41 we're going to continue the ministry. 50:42 I think the Lord honors that. Yes. 50:44 Yeah, that kind of thing, the fact that 50:45 you want to keep on reaching into the community 50:48 and being the hands and feet of Jesus, 50:50 I think the Lord honors that, I really do. 50:52 And it is our intention when we go back in, 50:55 to go in with a revival. 50:56 Amen. I like that. 50:58 We're going to go in with the evangelistic meeting. 51:00 Praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 51:02 You're in North Tulsa, 51:05 give me some sense of that community. 51:06 Are you out kind of in a rural 51:08 or are you in a kind of suburban setting? 51:09 I don't know that part of Tulsa. 51:14 Historically, North Tulsa was the area 51:18 where people of color lived. 51:19 Uh-huh. 51:21 Okay, I don't know if you're familiar 51:23 with Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma. 51:25 In Tulsa, yeah. 51:27 That's North Tulsa. 51:29 Yes. Okay. 51:31 And it was a very prosperous area at one time. 51:33 At one time. 51:34 And then we had tragic incidents 51:37 that took place in 1921, 51:39 a terrible race riot, and it was all destroyed, 51:44 and it's been uphill climb since then. 51:47 Yeah, yeah. 51:50 The demographics have changed. 51:53 And so though 51:55 it's still considered to be mostly a black area 51:59 'cause that's what it's historically been, 52:01 it is now cosmopolitan. 52:04 You have Hispanic, White, Asian, 52:06 some of everybody in North Tulsa, 52:08 most of your black churches are still there, 52:11 though the members may have moved south 52:14 where all the better housing and all that is, 52:17 everybody comes back in on the weekend for church. 52:21 And there's still a strong pocket of black folk. 52:25 But it is a cosmopolitan. 52:27 In fact, my congregation is not all black. 52:30 You know, we have Caucasian members, 52:33 it just shows you the community... 52:34 So you're reflecting the community, 52:36 yeah, and praise the Lord. 52:37 How big a city is Tulsa, citizenship-wise? 52:41 If you if you include the Metroplex, 52:43 about half a million, six hundred thousand. 52:45 A decent sized town. Yeah. 52:46 Yeah, praise the Lord. 52:47 The city itself is I think is right around 400,000. 52:49 Okay, 400,000. 52:51 We've thrown a lot at you, but this is a church 52:53 that is doing great things for the community. 52:55 And in a moment, we're going to tell you 52:57 why their work is so necessary. 52:58 But should you want to make contact 53:00 with the Bethel Seventh-Day Adventist Church, 53:02 here is the contact information 53:03 that you're going to need. 53:05 It's 1365 East, 46th Street, 53:08 North Tulsa, Oklahoma 74128. 53:12 The telephone number, (817) 371-3654, 53:17 and the email or rather the website, 53:21 Bethel49. AdventistChurchConnect.org. 53:26 Going to go to our news break, 53:27 then we'll be back with a closing thought. |
Revised 2018-09-05