Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY018051A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 mending broken people, 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 removing pain... 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:29 heal a heart that hurts, 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:39 mending broken people... 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:50 mending broken people. 00:55 Music... 01:10 Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:12 My name is C.A. Murray 01:14 and allow me once again to thank you 01:15 for sharing just a little of your, I suspect, 01:18 very busy day with us 01:20 we thank you as always for your love, 01:22 your prayers and your support of 3ABN 01:24 as together... for these three decades plus 01:27 we have partnered to share the good news 01:30 that Jesus is coming again, 01:32 I'm excited today yea verily 01:34 because of our subject matter and because of my guest 01:37 who feigns being an introvert but he is not... 01:40 by any stretch can this man be called an introvert, 01:44 this is a face you've seen on 3ABN 01:46 and if you're in the Adventist fraternity, 01:48 you've seen it around for many, many years... 01:50 this is Shawn Boonstra, 01:51 Shawn, good to have you here. 01:53 Yeah, not that many years... not that many years... 01:54 I'm getting there but... 01:56 Speaker/Director of Voice of Prophecy 01:58 currently he's had many incarnations... dare I say... 02:01 of what the Lord's called him to do. 02:03 I can't keep a job... I think that's the issue. 02:05 Done a lot of things for the Lord 02:08 but in what he's doing now, 02:10 we were talking just a little bit... 02:11 doing some wonderful 02:13 forward-thinking things for the Lord, 02:14 we're going to sort of mine that in just a little bit, 02:17 but Shawn, first of all, it's good to have you 02:18 and your lovely wife here... 02:20 She's in the back and she'll give me a list 02:23 of what I did wrong after the... after the show... 02:26 no, she was actually here doing another Program 02:28 because she's got a ministry going in her own right now 02:30 and it's gone gangbuster, so... 02:32 Yeah, praise the Lord, we're so happy about that, 02:35 hey, man, I want to spend just a little time 02:37 before we get into our music and some of the other things, 02:40 talking about you as a person, 02:41 we know the face and we've heard the message... 02:43 Yeah, unfortunately everybody knows the face... 02:45 I feel like I owe everybody an apology for that... I... 02:49 Lo these many, many years... not that many years but... 02:53 but they may not know you as an individual 02:56 you kind of just appeared on the scene 02:58 several years ago 03:00 and have been going sort of great guns ever since, 03:03 you move at kind of a rapid pace 03:04 but give us a little background, 03:05 you weren't born in an Adventist home... 03:07 No, I was not... I was born in a Christian home though, 03:10 I was born to Dutch immigrants 03:12 so that would give you a Protestant-Calvinist background 03:15 then I went to Christian schools as a kid, 03:18 yet they say, "God doesn't have any grandkids" 03:20 and so, oh He doesn't... God doesn't have grandchildren 03:23 you've got to buy their... 03:24 hey, I've got to say, "If you were relying 03:26 on your parents' faith to get you into the Kingdom, 03:27 it doesn't work that way, it just doesn't work that way. 03:30 Murray: It does not. 03:31 So, cut loose a little bit, 03:32 I don't rehearse what happened in my teenage life and so on 03:35 because why would you give the devil airtime 03:38 for the way he ruined your life, 03:39 I'm not going to give him free advertising. 03:40 Murray: I just call them "Wilderness years. " 03:42 Yeah, I had some of those, I really did have some of those 03:45 and then found the Adventist Church 03:46 about the age of 22, I think, 03:48 through a series of public evangelistic meetings 03:51 and the Adventists were the first ones 03:53 who ever really helped me feel for sure... 03:56 it was Bible Prophecy really that did this, 03:59 I knew for certain God was real... 04:01 Were you a searcher or a seeker? 04:03 Oh yeah, at that point I was, 04:05 at that point I had actually become a Christian 04:07 and I was looking for a place to call home 04:09 and I had actually read some Bible prophecy... 04:12 I had read some Revelation 04:13 and trying to make sense out of that on your own... 04:15 come to think of it... "What in the world 04:17 all these beasts and candlesticks... 04:18 so, what in the world?" 04:20 But some of it did make sense 04:21 just enough that I started looking for... 04:22 and I made a bargain with God, 04:24 I said, you know... and that's a dangerous thing to do 04:26 make a bargain with God... 04:28 but, "I'll tell you what... I'll go into ministry" 04:30 because I felt this nudging, 04:32 "Hey, you're going to be a minister" 04:33 well, I wanted to run for public office, 04:35 I didn't want to be a minister, I wanted to be in politics... 04:37 I wanted that life 04:38 and I... one night finally... I was under conviction, 04:41 "No, you're going to go into ministry" 04:43 this voice kept saying that 04:44 and I said, "All right, you show me where the people are 04:46 who believe the things that I'm reading here in Revelation 04:48 and in other parts of the Bible, I'll go into the ministry. " 04:50 I got invited to an Evangelistic Meeting... 04:53 an Adventist Evangelistic Meeting the next day 04:55 yeah, my brother got a handbill in the mail, 04:57 he called me, "Hey, I got a handbill. " 04:58 "What's a handbill?" 05:00 Now I know what a handbill is, 05:01 I've mailed out millions of them. 05:02 "It's a handbill. " 05:04 "Who puts it on?" 05:05 He said, "Let me look... Seventh-day Adventists" 05:07 "Oh, they're a whole bunch of wack-a-doodles 05:08 you don't want to go to a meeting like that... 05:10 they're a bunch of... Adventists you should see what they eat" 05:12 because I've seen what the Adventists eat... 05:13 fake meat out of a can... 05:15 I said, "Oh, I can't go to a meeting like that" 05:16 he says, "It will be fun, go... we can heckle the preacher" 05:18 "Okay... " well, now I'm in, you know, 05:20 and I... I couldn't believe what I was hearing 05:23 everything that I had discovered in Scripture 05:25 was there... they were preaching it 05:28 and I had asked like, the day before... 05:29 "God, if you show me where the people are 05:31 who believe what I find in this Book, 05:33 I'll go into the ministry" it was done. 05:35 Yeah, praise the Lord... 05:36 it's interesting that in your studies at the very beginning, 05:39 you had connected the dots enough to know 05:41 that there's got to be a people out there 05:43 somewhere... who buy this. 05:44 Yeah, when you look at Revelation 14 in particular, 05:47 you see the end of Revelation 12, 05:49 I love in hindsight to pretend that I understood 05:51 all the nuances of those chapters, no, I didn't... 05:54 but there seemed to be a clear dividing up of people 05:57 especially when you get to chapters 12, 13 and 14 05:59 of Revelation... in 13 you've got the beast power... 06:01 the 2nd beast power... 06:03 and everybody who kind of follows in their wake... 06:04 you've got one side of the equation... 06:07 one side of this controversy... 06:08 the controversy is introduced in chapter 12 06:11 and in chapter 13, you see the devil's side of the equation 06:14 but then in 14... you've got these people 06:15 standing on Mount Zion with the Lamb... 06:17 with a decisive last-day message for the world. 06:20 Did I understand that message in its entirety then? 06:22 No... but it was clear to me, 06:24 there'd be a polarization of the human race 06:26 and that there had to be a people 06:28 who had that specific message that you find in Revelation 14, 06:31 they had to be out there somewhere. 06:32 Murray: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm, 06:33 now, you're in Canada... you're a Canadian citizen. 06:36 I am still a Canadian citizen, I became an American as well 06:39 so, I've got the whole continent covered, 06:41 except, I need Mexican citizenship... 06:43 then I've got the whole thing. 06:45 Well, you've got Bermuda... 06:46 Is Bermuda Commonwealth though? 06:49 because Canadian passport is a Commonwealth passport, 06:51 I mean, it's good as you've got... 06:53 I'm already in... 06:54 are they still under the Queen are they? 06:58 I think so. 06:59 Oh, there you go, so, I'm already in... 07:01 I'm a Bermudan too... 07:02 Okay, praise the Lord and a citizen of heaven. 07:05 There you go... every nation, kindred, tongue and people 07:07 so I'm in. 07:08 Amen and amen, you're there, 07:11 you're... you're... you're connecting the dots, 07:12 you're looking for a church, 07:14 you obviously found that church, 07:15 were you married... had you met Jean yet? 07:17 We were dating... 07:18 I don't know, 3, 4, 18 years... however long we'd been dating 07:21 and... and... it probably felt like that to her 07:24 I was slow... we were young... 07:25 so, I waited three... four years before I proposed 07:28 then we were looking for a church home 07:30 and we'd settled on one that was kind of a compromise 07:33 between our different religious backgrounds 07:35 and I'm not sure we were entirely happy 07:37 and if I were going to be in ministry, 07:39 I couldn't be in a church that couldn't believe certain things 07:41 and so, I discovered by happenstance 07:44 the church that I was considering doing ministry in 07:46 didn't even believe the book of Genesis was true 07:49 and so, I said, "Okay God... " 07:51 and that's the bargain I made with God, 07:52 "You've got to show me where these people are 07:54 because this isn't it. " 07:55 "The Bible is the pillar in the ground of the truth" 07:57 we read in the letter to Timothy 07:59 and I said, "If they're rejecting portions of Scripture 08:01 then, where are they? 08:03 You've got to show me where they are, 08:04 I'll go... if they're serious about Scripture 08:06 then I'll go into ministry. " 08:08 Actually it was smug... the truth is, I was smug... 08:09 "I'm going to run for public office I have it all figured out 08:12 I'll be working on that this summer" 08:13 and God answered that day... in 24 hours. 08:17 Wow, wow... had Jean sort of bought into this bargain 08:19 or had you even shared this with her?" 08:20 You know it's interesting, 08:21 I had told her when I came under conviction 08:23 that I was going to go into Ministry, 08:25 which... I thought I'll test the waters, 08:27 my girlfriend's going to think this is nuts... 08:28 I phoned her up and said, "You know what? 08:30 I don't think I'm going to run for office. " 08:32 she said, "What are you going to do?" 08:34 I said, "Well, I'm going to go into Ministry. " 08:35 And what she said was, 08:37 "I've known that since I met you. " 08:39 Murray: You're kidding. 08:41 Yeah and... well girls are a lot smarter than guys, right? 08:42 We've been married now about 25 years at this point 08:46 and dated for four... no, we're almost 30 years 08:49 I'm still figuring her out, 08:51 guys aren't that smart... 08:52 Murray: Yeah, she's got you booked from early on. 08:54 Shawn: Two minutes... two minutes... and we're 08:55 guys are simple creatures right, 08:57 I mean, if we're fed and... we're pretty good, yeah. 09:01 So, she bought it... she had no problem with that. 09:05 And we both went... 09:07 I actually went to the Evangelistic Meetings myself 09:09 first night... came back and said, 09:10 "I found them, you got to come hear this. " 09:12 Murray: In one hour you knew. Shawn: Oh yeah. 09:13 They started, I think with Daniel 2... which is the reason 09:16 that's the first time I had absolute certainty, 09:18 there is no way... I mean, 09:20 you could be as skeptical as you want, 09:21 there's no way to get through Daniel chapter 2 09:24 and explain that away. Murray: Yeah. 09:25 Shawn: And I know the skeptics say, 09:27 "Oh, Daniel 2 must have been written after the fact 09:29 because it's so accurate" 09:31 but even in that case, it still got Rome 09:34 and the division of the Western Roman Empire 09:36 entirely accurate, 09:37 so even if we were to say... and I don't believe this... 09:39 I don't believe this but even if we were to say 09:41 that it was written at a later date, 09:43 it still got so much right 09:45 that the odds are against that being a human document. 09:47 Yeah and it wasn't written in the 300s, we know that so right. 09:50 No, it wasn't and Jesus quoted it, 09:52 I've every conviction Daniel's the author of that... 09:54 he got it right ahead of time, 09:55 even naming people and naming empires and... 09:57 Murray: Yes. Shawn: There's no way around it. 09:59 there's no... I've seen in my own Evangelistic meetings now, 10:02 skeptics come to me and say, 10:04 "All right, I still don't know everything... 10:05 I still don't know if I believe everything 10:07 but I can't explain that... 10:09 I can't explain Daniel" 10:10 so, to this day, I still open with that 10:12 all over the world and... and... 10:14 because you can be the biggest skeptic in the world 10:16 but it's like a bucket of cold water, 10:18 how do you explain that, there is a God... 10:19 it's... God doesn't ever argue for His existence 10:23 but He does demonstrate it. 10:24 Sure He does... sure He does and prophecy is one of the most 10:26 succinct and powerful and irrefutable ways to do that. 10:30 Yeah absolutely and to this day... 10:32 to this day, I still sit there and marvel 10:34 because the nuances never run out, 10:36 you get to Daniel 11 and it's like, 10:38 "Oh, wow, it describes Tiberius Caeser's funeral 10:42 he wasn't given State honors 10:43 how did he get that right? 10:45 How did you get all that right?" 10:47 And so, it's mindboggling to me to this point, 10:50 any time that I... you know and everybody's got little doubts, 10:54 "Is this really something?" 10:55 Go right back and it's like, "Yeah, absolutely... 10:57 this... God's there... He speaks through those books" 11:00 it's not just, "Wow, this is amazing information" 11:02 it's not like a magic trick, "How did he do that?" 11:04 Murray: Yes. 11:05 No, there's somebody speaking behind that and it's... 11:07 it's unmistakable. 11:08 Murray: Praise the Lord, Praise the Lord, 11:10 you have now this call... this feeling... 11:12 you want to go into ministry, 11:13 how did that begin... how did you begin to exercise that? 11:17 Well, the church that baptized me... 11:20 the Victoria Seventh-day Adventist Church, 11:23 hello folks, if you're out there... 11:24 I know there's still some folks there 11:25 I got hired as an Associate Pastor in that church 11:29 like a year after I was baptized, 11:30 the Conference hired me because I was out giving Bible Studies 11:33 and preaching and doing everything I could 11:35 so they just hired me as the Associate Pastor 11:37 then I pastored in that Conference for a bit, 11:39 I went to the Seminary... I won't... 11:41 well, I call it the Cemetery... 11:43 but that's not... I don't mean that and all... 11:44 it was a good experience 11:46 I went to the Seminary and so on... 11:47 pastored in the British Columbia Conference 11:49 and then, "It Is Written Canada" 11:51 was being run at that time 11:52 by a guy by the name of Henry Feyerabend 11:54 yeah... a lot of you know him 11:56 and he was getting ready to retire 11:58 and was looking for somebody who loved evangelism, 12:01 who loved our message and... and approached me 12:04 and so I went to "It Is Written Canada" 12:05 then Mark Finley wanted to retire 12:07 from "It Is Written International" 12:08 so he called me and I moved over the line 12:11 and then... now I'm at the Voice of Prophecy 12:13 because I get fired at one job after the other, right... 12:15 So you got to be Replacement Jockey 12:18 as guys are being signing off then you... 12:20 I'm a Substitute Teacher that's what I am. 12:22 Laughter... 12:23 No, I eventually did lay down my arm... so to speak... 12:29 at "It Is Written International" because I got sick back at 2010. 12:32 It was a mysterious illness, we still don't know what it was 12:34 but it was serious, I thought I was a goner... 12:37 and... so I survived that and I did go back to work, 12:40 now I'm at the Voice of Prophecy. 12:41 Yeah, so they never... because we were all praying for you 12:44 that went around the world. 12:46 Yeah, I appreciate the prayers, 12:47 I know that all of you were praying for me, I do know that, 12:50 but the truth is... rumor mills filled in... 12:53 "What's wrong... what happened to Shawn?" 12:55 We really don't know, we really don't know 12:57 but it appears to be in the past, 12:59 I still suffer with some lingering after effects, 13:03 I have some Neuropathy in my feet... my feet will burn 13:06 and I'll get numbness in weird parts of my body 13:08 but my energy really came back, 13:10 I went to Eden Valley for a little bit 13:13 it's a health retreat in Colorado 13:16 they helped me feel better 13:18 and I started going back to work slowly 13:20 it was about a three-year process 13:21 and then in 2013 13:24 I was asked if I'd consider the Voice of Prophecy 13:27 so I went there and haven't looked back yet 13:29 I guess it's been five years now 13:31 just about that I've been there and... 13:33 Has it been five? Time goes by so fast. 13:35 I saw you shortly after you were making your recovery, 13:39 we had some meeting in California 13:40 I don't remember what it was out near Ontario 13:42 because I flew into Ontario. 13:44 Oh they had some big media stuff about there. 13:46 Yeah, yeah, we were there for that 13:47 and you were smaller and... but your color was coming back 13:50 and you were starting to feel a little stronger. 13:52 Yeah, it was starting to come back at that point. 13:54 Yeah... I went down to skin and bones, 13:57 lost motor control... it was a scary time. 13:59 Yeah, I'm sure... I'm sure... 14:00 family... wife... lovely wife... two daughters... 14:03 Shawn: I hope so... I hope she's still there 14:05 when I get out of the Studio 14:06 and hasn't left but Jean... we've been 25 years this year, 14:10 Natalie is at Southern, 14:13 she'll be a Sophomore this coming year 14:15 in the Communications Program at Southern Adventist University 14:18 the youngest one is now 16 14:21 and she is a Junior at Campion Academy I think, 14:24 I think that's where my kid goes... 14:26 Laughter... 14:28 So, one's in high school... one's in college 14:30 so, here's the light at the end of the tunnel... 14:33 I'm already mapping out their bedrooms for an office... 14:35 it's like... they're going to be leaving soon, right? 14:37 I'm kidding kids, that's not true, I love you. 14:39 Laughter... and praise the Lord. 14:41 We want to go and we'll go to our music 14:43 and then we want to talk about some of the new innovations... 14:47 some of the things that are on your heart 14:49 for Voice of Prophecy... 14:50 some of the new directions you're taking them in 14:52 and before I do that, I got to ask you a question. 14:55 It occurred to me, 14:57 I happened to see you at a funeral some time ago, 14:59 and I had never picked this up before 15:02 but the way you were walking... 15:03 just looking at the camera following you 15:05 people walk a different way when they have shoes on 15:07 and when they don't... 15:09 I think, "He's planting his foot awful light... " 15:11 so I just waited until we got a beauty shot when they showed... 15:14 Shawn: That's impossible with me beauty shot... come on... 15:16 Laughter... 15:18 Anyway... we got the whole shot 15:19 and I said, "He's got no shoes on. " 15:21 Shawn: That's right. 15:22 Murray: Then I marked you several other times 15:23 you always preach without... without shoes. 15:26 Now I... when I got into the Recording Studio, 15:28 I sing without shoes... I know my reason, 15:31 I'm very curious what yours is. 15:33 I actually don't have shoes on now, 15:34 I won't show your audience 15:36 because that will offend some cultures if I plop up on... 15:37 I don't wear them now, 15:39 there are a number of reasons, 15:40 number one is I hate shoes, I just hate them, 15:42 grew up Canadian, we don't wear our shoes inside 15:44 it feels weird to wear your shoes inside... I hate them, 15:48 number two, I'm a little bit clumsy... more than a little bit 15:51 I like to feel where the edge of that platform is with my toe 15:54 because I have fallen off the platform preaching 15:56 and I know it's a... 15:58 funny thing is... one time I was actually reciting that verse 16:00 "Thy Word is a lamp unto my... " 16:02 and I didn't get the word "feet" out 16:03 and I fell right off the platform. 16:05 Somebody said, "You did that on purpose" 16:06 "Oh no... that hurt too much to plan that... I... " 16:08 so, I like feeling the edge of the platform, 16:11 I also have two different-sized feet... 16:13 I won't pull them out here 16:14 but one's nine-and-a-half one's eleven 16:16 caught one in a piece of equipment 16:18 and it wasn't quite right after that 16:21 and so, shoes are terribly uncomfortable 16:23 and so I buy an eleven and never wear them 16:26 but the number one reason 16:29 and you made reference to it at the beginning of the show, 16:30 I really truly am an off-the-charts introvert... 16:34 I didn't know the word for that in the beginning... 16:35 I'm terrified of public speaking... 16:37 this is comfortable... 16:38 you know a few people in a TV Studio... 16:40 very comfortable for me 16:42 to get up front... to this day is agony for me, 16:45 on opening night if I'm holding an Evangelistic Meeting, 16:47 I want to throw up... 16:48 I am so terrified of public speaking and crowds, 16:51 I don't like it... 16:53 but there's something about taking your shoes off 16:55 that grounds you... I'm home among friends... 16:58 and it relaxes me... and so off they go... 17:01 now the saints... 17:03 they're pretty sure there's got to be a spiritual reason 17:04 "the only way you take it... 17:06 is it because after you pray you're on holy ground?" 17:08 I wish I had thought of that, I wish I had thought of that... 17:10 Murray: That's the reason I was expecting 17:11 that kind of answer to that. 17:13 Shawn: Yeah... no... I hate shoes and I'm really... 17:14 it takes a lot of the stage fright away. 17:16 Murray: Hmmm... Shawn: Yeah... 17:18 Murray: Well I'd never think so 17:19 it cured me of that... and last story from me... 17:22 when I was playing basketball in college 17:23 I would play good in practice... 17:26 get in the game and get totally terrified 17:28 the Coach told me one day, 17:29 he said, "You know what, Murray, nobody cares about you. " 17:31 Laughter... 17:34 he said, "What are you getting nervous about... it's the team 17:35 they want to see the team, nobody cares about you" 17:37 and from that time on, I'm fine... 17:39 it's not you... it's the message it's what you're doing. 17:42 Shawn: That's it... I do this because people come to Christ, 17:45 I do not do it... I can't... 17:46 to this day, if I'm sitting in church 17:48 and you see me there, "Hey Shawn's here, 17:49 come up and tell us what's going on. " 17:51 I have a little panic attack, "Oooh, I didn't prepare... 17:53 I'm not ready for this" 17:55 I don't even like my birthday party 17:56 because if people sing "Happy Birthday" 17:58 they're going to look at me for three minutes 18:00 and I can't handle that. 18:01 So, it's true, the only reason I ever get up front... 18:03 I don't like being on TV, I don't like being on the radio, 18:06 I don't like getting up front to preach 18:08 there's only one reason to do it... 18:09 it works... people find Christ... 18:11 and they're looking for something... 18:12 and... somebody did it for me so I'm going to do it for them. 18:16 Murray: For them... yeah... yeah... 18:18 praise the Lord praise the Lord, well done... 18:19 well said... and thank you for de-mythologizing it 18:22 or de-mystifying that because I thought it was, 18:25 "Take off thy shoes from off thy feet for... " 18:27 that kind of thing, yeah. 18:29 Shawn: That would be lying but it would be such a nice thing 18:31 to say, wouldn't it? 18:32 Murray: It really would... 18:33 our music today is coming from Ben and John 18:37 The Burchfield Brothers... they're going to be playing, 18:39 "Be Still My Soul. " 18:42 Be still, my soul: 18:46 the Lord is on thy side; 18:53 Bear patiently 18:57 the cross of grief or pain; 19:05 Leave to thy God 19:11 to order and provide; 19:19 music... 19:21 In every change 19:24 He faithful will remain. 19:31 Be still, my soul: 19:35 thy best, thy heavenly friend 19:45 Through thorny ways 19:51 leads to a joyful end. 20:01 Guitar strumming... 20:09 Be still, my soul: 20:17 the hour is hastening on 20:24 When we shall be 20:29 forever with the Lord, 20:35 When disappointment, 20:41 grief, and fear are gone, 20:47 Sorrow forgot, 20:55 love's purest joys restored. 21:03 music... 21:06 Be still my soul: 21:13 When change and tears are past, 21:20 All safe and blessed 21:29 we shall meet at last... 21:39 We shall meet at last. 21:41 Music. 22:01 The Burchfield brothers, thank you gentlemen, 22:05 Be still my soul... 22:07 my guest is Shawn Boonstra. 22:08 You are the Speaker/Director for Voice of Prophecy, 22:11 I want you to get into... 22:12 Shawn: Until they fire me... 22:14 until they fire me... I'll... I'll... yeah. 22:16 And there is some history of you moving around. 22:18 Yeah... yeah... third media ministry... you never know... 22:19 Murray: Praise the Lord for that 22:21 but you're thinking of some new things... 22:22 moving in some new directions, 22:24 let's walk through some of that stuff 22:25 because you've got some good things that you're doing. 22:27 Well, we're going right back to the roots 22:28 of the Voice of Prophecy. 22:30 Look, there's only one reason to be on the radio, 22:32 we are not interested in just being on the air 22:35 for the sake of being on the air and getting some notoriety, 22:37 for me, as a sort of a wired introvert 22:41 there has to be a reason for me to go on the air. 22:43 To put myself out there in the public 22:45 it's about people... it's about people coming to Christ 22:48 and the radio gets into homes or television too... 22:51 I mean, we do documentaries and things now, 22:52 but it gets into the home... 22:55 they might not open the door when I knock... 22:57 but on their time... in their turf 22:59 they turn on the program you guys know that here, 23:02 you turn on the program and it's safe 23:04 and so, that was the reason it went on the air in 1929 23:07 HMS Richards... making shows in a chicken coop 23:09 I want to say it was on tape, but I don't know, 23:12 did they use wax cylinders in '29... I don't know 23:14 and then he delivered the recording 23:16 to KNX Radio in Los Angeles 23:17 and before you know it, it went worldwide. 23:19 By 1942, they had opened the Bible School of the air 23:22 and we still have the world's biggest Bible school 23:24 that we run internationally, 23:26 now we have more than a million graduates 23:27 from the Discover Bible School so, the roots though 23:32 were... not to get on the air 23:33 I mean, in the glory days of Christian Broadcasting 23:36 there were only four personalities on the air, 23:38 there was HMS Richards, we had Bishop Fulton Sheen, 23:41 we had Billy Graham... 23:42 there was one more... I can't remember... 23:44 I guess Martin Luther King might have been the other one, 23:46 that was sort of a prominent personality 23:48 even though he didn't have a regular broadcast, 23:50 in the glory days, the dial was pretty empty 23:53 and now the dial is really crammed full 23:56 but we've taken it all the way back to its roots. 23:59 I want people to end up 24:00 walking through the doors of a church 24:02 because we've been on the air, 24:04 I want them to connect with real churches... real Christians 24:06 and experience Jesus in Community 24:08 because the entry point was us, 24:11 we're not there to attract them to the Voice of Prophecy, 24:13 I want to attract them to your church, 24:14 I want to them to end up at your church 24:16 and so, we're taking it all the way back to the roots 24:19 and to that end what we're really doing is 24:21 going to decentralize the whole ministry, 24:24 there's kind of an unspoken assumption 24:26 with a lot of Christian Broadcasting 24:28 that the saints exist to support what's going on the air... 24:32 they will pay and they will watch 24:33 and you give a good report on what happened. 24:35 That's not the New Testament model at all, 24:37 the New Testament model is not a handful of media personalities 24:40 running around, holding Evangelistic Meetings 24:42 and winning the world for Jesus... you won't find that 24:44 even though there were some notable personalities 24:46 in the New Testament 24:47 the work wasn't all done by Paul, 24:49 he's a key feature... but he doesn't even have a radio show, 24:54 he can't show up... but once in a while at your church 24:57 it's all members on deck, 24:59 I mean, the Bible is crystal clear. 25:00 When you read 1st Corinthians chapter 5, 25:03 it talks about the fact that God reconciled us to Himself 25:07 through Jesus Christ 25:08 but in the next breath it says 25:10 He's given us the ministry of reconciliation. 25:11 Yes... right. 25:13 So, all members are on deck, 25:16 it's a priesthood of all believers 25:17 so, we're turning the whole ministry on its head, 25:19 we don't talk about ourselves as a media ministry at all anymore 25:22 we are an Evangelistic Ministry 25:24 and we eat, sleep and breathe helping your church 25:27 win your community to Christ. 25:28 So you exist to sort of franchise out... 25:31 Franchise is exactly the word we're using, 25:33 I will be... yeah... I will be the national spokesperson 25:36 for the Voice of Prophecy. 25:37 I'll say, "I'll be the Dave Thomas, 25:39 you be the local Wendy's 25:40 because I don't want to say McDonald's 25:42 because that would make me Ronald McDonald, 25:44 that's not the model I want at all, 25:46 but there's a national spokesperson, 25:48 we can take advantage of the fact 25:50 that there's a national, trustworthy brand 25:51 that people are used to on the air 25:53 and then what I want to be able to do is say, 25:55 "Hey, if you've really enjoyed this, 25:57 if you've enjoyed what you've been hearing, 25:59 not only do we have the Discover Bible School... " 26:01 which we plug all the time, 26:03 that's the whole reason I go on the air... 26:04 is to get people taking Bible Study 26:06 "we also have in your community a local Discovery Center, 26:09 go to DiscoveryCenters. com 26:10 and you can find my local office and see what's going on there" 26:13 when they go there, based on their IP address 26:16 click... up comes the local pastor 26:18 here's what we've got going on Tuesday night 26:20 "Hey, to register for our Healthy Lifestyle Seminar 26:23 or our Bible Study Class or our Prophecy Seminar 26:26 click here to register" and it's all handled 26:28 and I'm sending people directly to the churches 26:30 which we now call Discovery Centers 26:32 for the public's use. 26:33 I love it... so as... as... as... as franchises 26:35 for what you're brand is then 26:36 they've got a... you've got to make sure 26:39 that they're sort of onboard 26:40 with the direction that you lead... that kind of thing. 26:42 Absolutely, so, if you were to open a Wendy's, 26:44 and I do not advocate Wendy's, 26:46 I do believe in the Bible's health message 26:48 I'm not sending people to Wendy's 26:49 but it's the only one that popped into my head right now, 26:51 and fortunately I don't eat at Wendy's, I don't... 26:53 well, once I had fries but other than that... 26:56 but when you go there, look at what happens 26:59 the reason people driving across the country 27:02 pull into a fast-food place 27:03 like a Taco Bell or one of these places, 27:05 they know exactly what to expect when they walk through the door. 27:07 Murray: Precisely. 27:08 And when you walk into a Discovery Center, 27:10 I want people to know exactly what to expect 27:12 and so, we're creating as in a restaurant... 27:14 a Taco Bell or some fast-food place, 27:16 they provide you the menu, they provide you the decor, 27:19 they provide you the experience 27:20 and we're going to provide that to our Discovery Centers 27:22 so we're creating what we call 27:24 the Discovery Suite of Evangelistic Tools 27:27 the Discovery Suite rather... 27:28 Discovery is: Discovery Mountain Jean's children's program 27:31 and so, that's the whole range of things, 27:33 first of all, we've got the Discover Bible School 27:35 it's the worlds' oldest and biggest Bible School 27:37 Correspondence Bible School, 27:38 but we want people to interact with those folks, 27:41 we don't want to mail in the lessons and so on 27:43 so we'll teach you and show you 27:45 how you can interact with the people who want Bible Lessons 27:47 and maybe even go to their home and give them a Bible Study, 27:50 we've had more than a million people 27:52 graduate from the Discover Bible School 27:53 and all around the world I go people say, 27:55 "I found my way to Jesus through the Discover Bible School" 27:58 so we've just re-written it, 27:59 there's a brand new Discover Bible School 28:01 that we've just completed 28:05 that sort of dovetails with all of the other evangelistic 28:08 sort of outreach tools and Bible Study tools 28:10 that we're creating 28:12 so, that's the Discover Bible School 28:15 on the heels of that we're also creating a... 28:17 oh, let me say this too, I nearly forgot 28:20 one of the reasons I'm a big believer 28:22 in the Discover Bible School is this, 28:24 I will not go into a city and hold an Evangelistic Meeting 28:27 unless I start Discover Bible Schools 28:29 in that city two years in advance. 28:30 Murray: That makes sense. 28:31 Any city that I've gone to... 28:33 I know that Christians today are all despondent, 28:34 they say, "We live in the post-modern secular world 28:36 and nobody's ever going to be interested in Bible Study. " 28:38 We've proven them wrong over and over 28:40 I think the lowest number of Bible Studies 28:42 we've been able to start in a week 28:44 in seven days in an urban center is 1,000 28:47 we usually range from 2- to 3,000 in a week. 28:49 Your neighbors are dying to study the Bible, 28:51 they know something's up 28:52 and they want to know what that is. 28:54 So, Discover Bible School... 28:55 let me pull up my Cheat Sheet so I don't forget stuff. 28:56 This is my iPad but I turned down this... 28:59 the bright... so it doesn't light up my face, 29:02 so, we've got a Discover Bible School, 29:04 we've got the Discover Seminars, 29:06 the Discover Seminars are short entry events 29:08 that you can put on in your church 29:09 that are just three or four meetings that attract the public 29:12 and then we invite them to stay for Bible Study. 29:14 Murray: Ah ha. 29:15 So, for example, I usually do ancient history 29:17 and tie it to prophecy, 29:19 we did "Shadow Empire" 29:20 and we did that... that's the life and rise of Constantine 29:24 everybody's got the sense there's something wrong... 29:26 amiss... with organized religion and instead of arguing with them 29:29 we justify their feelings, 29:31 we said, "You're absolutely right 29:32 something did go wrong with... " 29:34 I think we've got a trailer for that. 29:35 Shawn: We could run that trailer are we allowed to run a trailer? 29:37 Can I do that... can I just like 29:39 command the show and run a trailer or...? 29:40 Murray: Sure you can. 29:41 Shawn: All right, let's run that one... "Shadow Empire. " 29:43 Music... 29:48 Born under the cloud of illegitimacy... 29:51 music... 29:55 his real father 29:58 far more powerful than anyone could imagine 30:02 music... 30:04 the unlikely king who ignited a global movement 30:09 music... 30:13 the world forever changed. 30:20 His legacy: an empire reaching across centuries... 30:24 his name: Constantine... 30:29 music... 30:32 Shadow Empire... 30:40 it's not what you've been told. 30:44 Well done and a great tease. 30:46 Shawn: It is a pretty good tease, right? 30:47 Murray: Really, yeah, it was a great tease. 30:49 So, what we're doing is... everyone knows something's amiss 30:50 in the world of organized religion 30:52 so instead of arguing with them, we tell them, "You're right" 30:53 because they are, 30:54 something did go south in about the 4th century 30:57 and... but we hold out as the alternative, 31:00 that's not your only alternative 31:01 there's a Biblical Christianity, 31:03 there's a real Jesus He has a real message 31:04 and yeah, it isn't what you've heard 31:06 and we packed out auditoriums all across... people came. 31:10 We wanted to provide something 31:11 you could be proud to bring your friends to... 31:13 Murray: Yes. Shawn: Right... 31:14 Murray: Quality... Shawn: Yeah 31:16 it looked like something they would see on the History Channel 31:17 and you don't have to be embarrassed, 31:18 it doesn't look like somebody cobbled it together with felts 31:20 back in the... you know... 31:21 Laughter... 31:23 Shawn: No... but... but... we wanted to be... 31:24 so, budgets mean that we can only do like four episodes 31:27 but it was enough 31:29 and what would happen is, 31:30 I would give 30 minutes of high-quality documentary style 31:33 "Here's what happened in ancient history... " 31:35 and then we'll segue straight into a Bible Study 31:37 that the Pastor gives to that same audience 31:39 and we're inviting them into Bible Study... 31:40 packed out audiences all over, 31:42 we've had entire congregations change their opinion 31:45 about the way they worship as a result of that. 31:48 Murray: Now, that's fabulous. 31:49 Shawn: Yeah, it's gone gangbusters... 31:50 it's three nights... it's four nights... 31:52 it's easy to do... Murray: Hmmm... hmmm. 31:54 Shawn: We did "Pale Horse Rides" which was the story... 31:56 "Well, if something went wrong with Constantine, 31:57 where did Biblical Christianity go?" 32:00 And we uncovered the stories of ancient barbarians 32:02 who had nothing but the copy of the... a copy of the Scriptures 32:04 and lived a completely Scriptural 32:06 Christ-centered Christianity in the midst of the Dark Ages 32:09 so, the ancient Celts and I've got... 32:11 I brought trailers like crazy... 32:13 can we watch that one: The Pale Horse Rides? 32:14 Pale Horse Rides... 32:15 let's run: The Pale Horse Rides. 32:17 Words on screen. 32:26 For 1,200 years, a pact between political forces and the church 32:32 committed atrocities in the name of Christ 32:34 today, people are leaving the church at alarming rates 32:38 with a sense that something went wrong 32:41 with the evolution of organized religion. 32:43 Many scholars have even predicted 32:46 the death of Christianity as we know it 32:48 did something go wrong in early Christianity 32:51 that affects the church today? 32:53 Are people's fear of organized religion justified? 32:57 Yes, and the Bible predicted that it would happen 33:00 join Shawn Boonstra 33:03 from the Voice of Prophecy 33:04 as he explores the untold stories 33:07 and visits awe-inspiring locations 33:09 for the 1,200-year journey of the church 33:12 that paved the way to Martin Luther's Reformation. 33:15 Find out what went wrong 33:17 at the beginning of the world's largest religion 33:19 then watch as Bible prophecy unfolds 33:22 at the birth of the church 33:24 and culminates in predictions for our world today. 33:27 The story hidden in history, 33:31 the church on the brink of destruction, 33:35 of hope born out of the ashes of a vast empire. 33:39 Discover the history that may be the best chance 33:43 for the church's future. 33:45 A Pale Horse Rides. 33:50 Music. 33:54 Here's the nuance that I like in your presentation, 33:58 you admit that something went wrong 34:00 which gives you a platform to tell what that is 34:02 as opposed to starting from a defensive position, 34:05 "Everything is fine... everything is fine, 34:06 oh yeah, we got this little... " 34:08 Shawn: You're right... Murray: Yeah, you're right. 34:09 Shawn: Well, we may as well admit it, 34:11 we did some awful things in the Dark Ages 34:12 as Christians we did 34:14 why don't we admit it, everyone knows we did it 34:15 so, what are we trying to hide it for? 34:17 Murray: Yeah. Shawn: Israel went off base, 34:18 all of the Old Testament prophecies pointing toward it 34:21 were when Israel went off base, 34:22 New Testament Prophecy... the book of Revelation 34:24 predicts Christianity goes off base, 34:25 why don't we admit we did and point to Jesus 34:27 instead of defending ourselves, 34:29 it's an approach that fills auditoriums 34:31 because people are... people don't want God not to be real 34:34 they would love there to be a loving God, 34:36 it's just the Christians they can't handle... 34:39 Yeah, yeah, and that's an important point Shawn 34:41 because they look around, they look at churches, 34:43 they see the dysfunction 34:45 why pretend that it's not there 34:47 but the God that you want to serve 34:49 that is beyond all of this... above all of this 34:52 is true and faithful and loyal 34:53 so don't look at the... 34:54 the people per se... look at God. 34:56 One of my favorite passages is Ecclesiastes 3 verse 11, 34:58 "God has put eternity in the heart. " 34:59 Everybody you know has some inkling that God is there, 35:04 He does... Acts chapter 14, 35:07 "God has not left Himself without witness. " 35:08 He's speaking to your neighbors, 35:09 we're not always the best representative of Jesus, 35:12 so, I like to admit that we're not perfect 35:15 and then point them Christ 35:16 and people make decisions that... so... 35:19 those are the Discover Seminars 35:20 we're going to release a new one every year 35:22 every year for our Discover Centers 35:24 you can invite people... they take Bible Study 35:26 then the next thing we've done is 35:28 "Revelation Speaks Peace" 35:29 it's a public Prophecy Seminar that I've done for 25 years 35:32 I've taken the whole thing, 35:34 I'm calling it: Discovering Revelation 35:35 so that it's branded alike with the Discover Bible School, 35:38 I'm packaging it 35:39 for any church that becomes a Discovery Center... to use 35:41 I'm giving everything away that God has blessed me with 35:43 over the years, it's all going away 35:45 because it worked so well for us around the world for 25 years, 35:48 that... I want to share that... 35:50 I want to share that with every church 35:51 so, Bible School... we've got the Discover Seminars 35:54 we've got a full message campaign on Bible prophecy 35:57 that has worked... it's worked for me every time, 36:00 once or twice... it almost didn't work 36:02 but overall... hey, as Christians we give up 36:04 if something does not work once. 36:06 "Oh, I give up... " 36:07 we would have lost World War 2 36:09 if the first bullet fired over our head... 36:10 "Go home... it's pointless. " 36:11 If you work it... it works 36:13 and that's one of the things we're showing, 36:15 it all comes with training... 36:16 we've got resources for children... 36:18 Jean's show: Discovery Mountain for children... radio drama, 36:21 we're developing a Vacation Bible School to go with it, 36:23 we're developing Children's Evangelistic Meetings 36:25 and a Bible Study Set to go with it 36:26 so that if you're preaching "Discovering Revelation" 36:28 your Kids' Department has got Discovery Mountain 36:30 they've heard it on the radio anyway. 36:32 Murray: Talk a little bit about that 36:33 you're actually allowed to talk about your wife. 36:34 Oh absolutely, she put together a radio drama for kids, 36:37 it's based on a little town called "Discovery Mountain" 36:40 up in the Rocky Mountains, oddly enough... 36:41 we live at the base of Rocky Mountains... 36:43 it's loosely built on Glacier View Ranch, 36:45 as far as its look and feel 36:47 and it's gone gangbusters, 36:49 there's a radio drama in the current day and age 36:51 where the kids are dealing with real situations 36:53 but it always ties to a Bible story, 36:55 there's a theme every season that Jean does 36:57 like Esther and Moses or something like that, 36:58 kids are learning the Bible and it's gone gangbusters... 37:01 it's all over the place, you can find it in iTunes, 37:03 you can find it on... I think iHeart Media is carrying that 37:06 if not, I know they're carrying a number of our shows already 37:09 and it will end up there. 37:11 It's on radio stations all over the country 37:12 and the demand went through the roof in three months, 37:14 we found a niche where kids... and especially with grandparents 37:18 whose kids don't take their kids to church 37:20 and they're, "What can I give my kid?" 37:22 "What can I give my child?" 37:23 "Discovery Mountain" 37:24 go to discoverymountain. com 37:26 and you can see... you can download the resources there, 37:28 that's gone huge, so, children's resources, 37:31 Discover Seminars 37:33 Full-message Campaigns 37:34 Training 37:36 what we want to do is, pull everybody together, 37:37 churches that are interested in becoming a Discovery Center, 37:39 pull them together in March of 2019, 37:41 we're going to have roll out, 37:42 "Here's all the tools that we use 37:44 that have worked for me for the last 25 years, 37:46 in a format that you can use. " 37:48 We have support systems, 37:49 "Hey, you have a problem, give me a call" 37:51 I have an Evangelist on the line, 37:52 "Hey, I've got this going on in my meeting... 37:54 I've got a guy half-way through a sex change 37:56 and he wants to come to Jesus, what do I do?" 37:57 And then, I say, "Call C.A. Murray. " 38:00 Laughter... 38:01 No... but that happens, 38:02 let's be honest about the world we live in, it happens... 38:04 and so, we're going to hold each other's hands. 38:06 We're going to develop resources together 38:08 eventually, every pastor that has a Discovery Center 38:11 gets his own Sunday Morning Show, 38:12 I've got five radio shows now, 38:13 we've got: Disclosure which is my Talk Radio Show 38:16 I do that once a week and that's picking up... 38:18 I think we just picked up another 138 Stations 38:21 that we're on... 38:22 so, we brought that back from the dead, 38:23 Discovery Mountains is a radio show... 38:25 all of these are designed to drive people 38:26 straight to your Discovery Center, 38:28 "The Bull Pen" is a show I'm going to do for men 38:30 it's kind of like men are the biggest missing demographic 38:33 in churches especially middle-age guys 38:35 so, this is going to be a radio show 38:37 that's going to be... I hate to use the analogy, 38:39 I'm going to get letters... 38:41 address your complaints to Jean Boonstra, 38:42 Box 999 Loveland, Colorado... 38:44 but this is like the closest analog on TV: The Sports Center 38:49 it'll be four guys talking religion and issues 38:51 and they can argue all they want 38:53 as long as I get the last ten minutes 38:54 and I wrap it off 38:56 and invite people to take Bible Studies 38:57 and visit a Discovery Center 38:59 and that one will be geared specifically for men. 39:01 Jean is working on one that's called: Believers 39:03 it will be like a 15-minute radio show 39:05 on great heroes of the faith, 39:07 kind of like Paul Harvey Style 39:08 we've got a website which is in a radio show 39:11 bibleinfo. com 39:12 which now gets, I believe, 1.1 million people a month 39:15 coming for Bible Study... you need visitors. 39:17 Murray: Praise the Lord. 39:18 So, these are all... all these resources are all tied together 39:20 to open a Discovery Center, 39:21 you get your deep fryer, you get your table, 39:23 you get your menu, you get... 39:25 and the public knows because I said, 39:26 "I have a Discovery Center in your town... 39:28 this is a safe place to go" 39:29 and they show up there, 39:31 we'll have post work, 39:32 I think we'll have a Bible Marking Course for new believers 39:34 and discipling resources for believers 39:36 and then again, eventually, if you have a Discover Center, 39:39 I'm going to put that Pastor on the radio 39:41 on their local Talk Radio Station 39:43 Sunday morning with a half-hour sermon 39:45 like the old Voice of Prophecy 39:47 that will be the Voice of Prophecy presents... 39:48 like the old school... 39:50 because why in the world would I be on the air 39:52 in Billy-Cook Junction, Arkansas 39:54 when there's a pastor working hard there 39:55 and he's the one who needs to meet the people. 39:57 So, we'll do it all together 39:59 then... then... and here's the... 40:00 here's the piece that I'm really excited about 40:03 once we've rolled out all these things 40:04 and we're just about done, 40:06 in March of 2020, we're going to open with 40:08 public evangelistic meeting in 1,000 locations 40:11 with 1,000 Speakers 40:12 and I brought a trailer for that can I show that one? 40:14 Rev 2020 is that one... let's run that one. 40:17 What if... 40:22 music... 40:26 you have everything you needed to finish the work? 40:29 music... 40:33 What if instead of one city per year 40:36 music... 40:42 music... 40:46 What if instead of 1,500 guests 40:50 a 150,000 40:58 in 1948 Ellen White saw streams of light 41:02 gripping the whole planet. 41:04 Did she see the possibilities of the 21st century? 41:09 Music... 41:14 All new streams of light... did she see? 41:16 Music... 41:21 What if she saw you? 41:22 read screen... 41:30 before God. 41:37 Music. 41:52 Well, powerful stuff 41:57 I want to just back up and tap the brakes a little bit, Shawn 42:00 these four trailers are... 42:02 are... teasers to four presentations 42:06 that lead to Bible Studies... what are... 42:08 This last one... this last one was Revelation 2020 42:10 that's what we're kind of calling the project 42:12 as we open a 1,000 Discovery Centers, 42:14 we're going to run a 1,000 Evangelistic Meetings 42:16 with a 1,000 Speakers that we have all gotten together 42:19 used the same resources... 42:21 we're branded alike across the nation 42:23 that one there... Revelation 2020... 42:25 we're going to open in March of 20 42:27 so that's not... that's a full-message campaign 42:29 you know that often when I do Bible Prophecy 42:31 I go five weeks... this is... 42:32 people say, "Really five weeks, five weeks in this day and age?" 42:35 Yeah... yeah we will... 42:37 people not only come this day and age 42:38 in the Western World, they stay... 42:40 Altar Calls are bigger than I've ever seen them in my whole life, 42:42 I'm telling you that at this moment 42:44 I sometimes get into a meeting and I'm preaching 42:46 and 30 minutes in... you know I preach an hour, 42:48 30 minutes in... I watch people get out of their seats 42:51 and walk to the front to make a decision for Christ 42:53 because they want an Altar Call, 42:55 "That's enough sermon, we're convinced... 42:57 let's do this. " 42:58 I want every church to experience that, 43:00 we've allowed ourselves to become convinced 43:03 that proclaiming that the everlasting gospel 43:06 has become impossible in the 21st Century 43:08 too post-modern... too secular... it doesn't work 43:11 that's a bunch of nonsense 43:13 it's not true at all... 43:15 I've watched it work time and time and time again, 43:17 Jean and I have had the privilege of watching 43:19 almost a 100,000 people make a decision for Christ 43:21 at this point in our ministry, 43:22 100,000... 43:23 and it's not because we're unusually gifted... 43:25 it's because the message works, 43:26 the Bible's powerful and God is not dead, 43:29 He saw the whole world lighting up with the glory of Christ 43:31 before Jesus comes, Revelation 18, 43:33 we're headed for good times, 43:35 it's not getting tougher, it's getting better 43:37 and so, I want every church to experience that. 43:39 Now, the other ones... yeah... the Discover Seminars... 43:41 A Pale Horse Rides 43:43 Shadow Empire 3... 4... nights 43:45 and then invite people to stay for Bible Study, 43:48 and we've got one more of those coming up... 43:50 October of '18 43:52 "The Appearing" on the Second Coming of Christ 43:54 now, I did this Series some years ago 43:58 and we packed 1,400 auditoriums, 44:00 we couldn't believe the response, 44:02 and every time we run a Discover Seminar 44:04 people are telling us, 44:05 "We got three times the number of visitors than we prepared for 44:07 we can't believe how hungry people are. " 44:09 This one... I've completely re-written, 44:11 there's a brand-new book and it's a brand-new Series 44:13 and guess what.. I brought a trailer for that too. 44:14 Let's run that one... The Appearing. 44:16 Murray: Got to take a look. Shawn: Yeah... 44:17 Screen... 44:37 Music... 44:56 Are you ready? 44:59 Pause. 45:01 Great voice, very well done. 45:03 Yeah, that's not more of my voice... you can tell right 45:05 that's actually a guy in Hollywood who loves us 45:07 and does that for us. 45:09 Shawn... just to sort of paint out with very broad strokes here 45:14 I was going to say, nuance... 45:17 but this is not a nuance change in VOP... 45:20 this is a whole new set of clothes. 45:22 Well, it is what VOP was born to do 45:25 we're now pushing 90 years old not me... not me... 45:29 but the ministry is pushing 90 it was born to do this, 45:32 but I don't want to be the only one out there 45:35 reaping souls for Jesus, 45:37 if every church member could see it for themselves, 45:39 just once in their life, somebody come to Christ 45:42 because they allowed God to use them 45:44 and here's what I teach 45:46 you can't convert people 45:47 we're too scared of this, 45:49 you can't convert people, 45:50 1st Corinthians 2 tells us that this carnal minds... 45:53 you know, can't be... 45:55 it doesn't understand spiritual things, 45:56 we've shifted people's thinking, 45:59 if... I mean, God speaks to people, 46:01 our job is not to convert people 46:03 but to find those that God's in the process of converting, 46:05 and if you look back, 46:07 everybody over their own experience can see 46:09 God got to them long before the Preacher or the Bible Worker 46:12 or anybody else got to them, 46:13 the church didn't speak to them, 46:15 God woke them up and made them interested. 46:16 If we could take away the fear 46:19 and have very church member lead one person to Christ, 46:21 they'll keep doing it the rest of their lives 46:22 because there's nothing more rewarding 46:24 and we can't rely on this idea 46:26 that there's going to be... as much as I would love to, 46:28 there's a number of Evangelist friends of mine 46:30 that run around... we hold big meetings and... 46:31 I would love to pretend that that's how the work is finished, 46:34 it's not... that will... there will always be a need for that 46:37 there's always going to be a need 46:38 for a big splash in the city 46:39 to sort of make it a dent in the devil's armor, 46:41 but every member could be a soul winner 46:43 and they can use exactly the same tools that I've have had 46:46 at my disposal for 25 years, 46:47 I've given the store away so to speak, 46:49 I really am... 46:51 because everybody deserves to see somebody come to Christ, 46:53 so we're opening these Discovery Centers. 46:55 I think that was HMS' intent in the beginning... 46:57 to lead people to Christ, 46:59 he realized... I can get into that home and get them to church 47:01 I think over the years 47:03 we've probably drifted from that a little bit 47:04 and the media became the point, it's not the point 47:07 the point is... people coming into the community of faith 47:10 becoming believers in Christ, joining God's remnant church, 47:13 getting ready for Jesus to come, 47:15 that happens at the church 47:17 so, we flipped everything on its head 47:18 and we're directing all of our attention... 47:21 all of our attention to the local church 47:23 to help your church win people to Christ. 47:25 Praise the Lord and I'll tell you what that is, Shawn, 47:27 it's freeing... 47:28 you don't have to start with a defensive posture, 47:30 you don't have to start with the mindset 47:33 that I've got to avoid failure 47:35 because if they're in front of you... 47:36 if they're in that building... 47:37 they already got a toe in the water. 47:39 That's right... that's right and you will fail... 47:41 hey, that's one of the things that we're going to teach too, 47:42 you're going to mess up, 47:44 if you're scared you're going to mess up, 47:45 let me assure you, you will... you're going to... 47:47 I've done some colossally stupid things in the past 25 years 47:50 but Jesus loves me... 47:52 He picks me up and says, 47:54 "Next time, Shawn, don't do that" 47:56 and that's part of growing in it too 47:58 but you will watch people come to Christ... you will... 48:00 everybody deserves to see that, 48:02 it is ministry of all... a priesthood of all believers. 48:04 Yes indeed, yeah that... once you find that happening, 48:07 you will find that that is an addictive thing, 48:09 just the... 48:11 just a little success is enough to send you back out there 48:13 because you know that it has happened... it can happen again 48:16 and God will be with and you're not on your own, 48:19 I really like the direction that you're moving in, 48:21 it's much more user-friendly but it's much more current, 48:25 it's... it's what will work here and now 48:27 given what we're... what we're dealing with 48:29 The idea that you still do 48:32 and that you're very susceptible to 48:35 five-week meetings... 48:37 six-week meetings... that's... 48:39 that's... that's... that's still on the table, man, 48:40 it hasn't gone away... 48:42 People... people will come... we've talked ourselves out of it 48:44 but actually in the Western world, I insist, 48:46 no less than four-and-a-half weeks 48:48 that's the bare minimum that I'll do, 48:50 they'll come... they'll stay... 48:51 some cities are harder than others, 48:52 I've had some places where the crowds aren't as large 48:54 as in other cities, 48:56 that's a fact of life 48:57 but, you know, I keep telling myself, 48:59 Noah preached for a 120 years and only baptized his kids 49:01 and we all know he would have been sinning... had he stopped. 49:05 Murray: Yes, yeah... yeah... 49:06 Had he stopped, he would have been sinning, 49:09 God told us to go and preach the gospel 49:11 as a witness to all nations, 49:12 and if the results were zero, you'd still have to do it 49:15 the good news is, the results are not zero, 49:17 they're not even close to zero, 49:19 Paul would love to be around now 49:21 because it's better now than it was back then 49:23 it really is... I wish... 49:25 if our people could only see that 49:27 they'll be soul winners full time. 49:29 Murray: Praise the Lord. 49:30 If they could see that... 49:31 that your neighbor is dying to come to Christ, 49:33 the problem is... we haven't even met them, 49:34 they're dying to come to Christ. 49:36 Yeah, yeah, I really like that and you don't mind, dare I say, 49:39 wading into kind of deep water 49:40 the size of the city 49:42 or the suspected secularism of that town... doesn't... 49:46 No, I never know what I'm going to get, 49:48 I actually tend to pick the most secular cities... 49:50 I just did Seattle... we filled the Agriplex there in Seattle, 49:53 I think we got a photo somewhere in the files 49:56 back in the control room, 49:59 that shows an Altar Call in Puyallup, Washington, 50:01 it's... it's... it's... 50:02 you wouldn't believe the size of the responses 50:04 it's the most secular city... 50:05 I tend not to go to the places I know 50:06 are really Bible-Belt places, 50:08 I want to go somewhere where it can't be done. 50:11 And it always works there too because God said... 50:13 God didn't get this wrong, 50:14 God did not look down through the corridors of time 50:16 see the whole world being lit up for the glory of Christ 50:18 He did not give His church the Three Angels Messages 50:21 found in Revelation 14 for the end time and get it wrong 50:24 He didn't get it wrong, 50:25 God didn't... isn't caught by surprise 50:27 by the post-moderns and the seculars 50:28 He's not calling a meeting right now with the angels saying, 50:31 "I got it so wrong... I just didn't see those people coming" 50:34 He got it exactly right 50:36 and what I want is for your church to experience that, 50:38 to see the God it right 50:39 and that this world's ready for Jesus to come. 50:41 Praise the Lord... praise the Lord. 50:42 I remember several years ago when it came out 50:44 that you were going to Rome 50:46 and people were saying, "Hey, Shawn's going to Rome. " 50:48 Laughter... 50:51 That's a tough town... 50:52 that is a tough town, yeah, that is a tough town 50:55 but even there it worked. 50:56 All I was asking for was ten decisions for Christ... 50:59 I think we saw 140 by the time we were done with the meetings 51:02 but the thing that touched my heart the most 51:03 were the church members, 51:05 one lady in particular was crying one night. 51:07 I said, "What's the matter?" 51:08 She said, "I can do this, I can lead people to Jesus, 51:10 nothing's wrong, I'm just that happy. " 51:11 That summer, she went through her apartment building, 51:13 knocked on every door and met everybody, 51:15 led eight people to Christ that summer. 51:16 Murray: Praise the Lord, praise the Lord. 51:18 That's why I do what I do, 51:19 it's not so I can say, 51:21 "Hey, VOP baptized X number of people" 51:22 I don't care about that, 51:23 I want your church to grow and succeed, 51:25 I want every member to lead someone to Christ 51:27 because, I'm convinced that's the only way you grow personally 51:30 anyway... it's the one thing Jesus asked us to do, 51:32 He did not ask us to have a Nominating Committee 51:34 or a Building Committee or... those are important... 51:36 but that's not the mission of the church 51:38 and everybody's involved in the mission of the church 51:41 we've lost sight of that in some corners of Christianity 51:43 and it's time to recapture it. 51:45 We can turn the world upside down again, 51:46 we can be like that first-century church. 51:48 Praise the Lord... praise the Lord, 51:49 so by any conceivable measure having someone go out 51:52 and do that on their own... 51:53 that has got to be the definition of success. 51:56 Shawn: Yeah... Murray: Yeah... 51:57 But that's how we grow so we're going to give you everything... 51:59 we're just providing everything. 52:00 "I don't know how to put together this Resource Center" 52:02 don't worry... we'll do the heavy lifting, 52:04 I've got all the resources, 52:05 they're adaptable to your own situation 52:06 I'll give you everything you need 52:08 so, there's no excuse, I'll even hold your hand, 52:10 we'll even go to that first door together. 52:11 Praise the Lord... 101... love it. 52:13 We've got to go to our newsbreak just now 52:15 then we're going to come back 52:16 and have Shawn sort of put a little bow on this 52:18 and sort of wrap this up, 52:19 we'll be back in just a couple of minutes. |
Revised 2018-07-03