Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY018046A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:06 mending broken people, 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:17 removing pain... 00:21 Lord, let my words... 00:27 heal a heart that hurts, 00:33 I want to spend my life 00:38 mending broken people... 00:44 I want to spend my life 00:49 mending broken people. 00:55 Music... 01:02 more music... 01:10 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn 01:12 and we welcome you to 3ABN today. 01:15 We just want to thank you 01:17 for sharing some of your time with us, 01:19 this is going to be an exciting hour. 01:22 We have a fascinating... some fascinating testimonies 01:25 and stories of how the Lord works 01:28 when you are a seeker of truth. 01:30 And we want to thank you for your prayers 01:34 and for your love 01:35 and for your financial support of 3ABN, 01:37 we couldn't do what we do without you. 01:39 I wanted to start with a Scripture from Mark 01:43 and this is Jesus speaking, in Mark chapter 7 and verse 8 01:46 He says, "For laying aside the commandment of God, 01:50 you hold the tradition of man" 01:53 I'm going to jump down a few verses 01:56 and He finishes by saying this, "making... " 01:59 this is verse 13... 02:01 "making the word of God of no effect 02:05 through your tradition which you have handed down. 02:07 And many such things you do. " 02:09 We have to be so careful 02:11 that what we believe as Christians 02:15 is coming straight from the Word of God 02:18 because it is all too easy to let tradition take precedence 02:25 over what God's Word actually says, 02:27 and today, we have with us 02:30 some precious people who I would call, 02:32 "Seekers of the Truth" 02:33 people who suddenly recognize that 02:36 the tradition of their Amish religion 02:39 wasn't lining up with the Word of God... 02:41 and now they are Seventh-day Adventist Christians 02:44 first, let me introduce my dear brother, Andy Weaver... 02:48 Andy, so glad to have you here. 02:51 Thanks for having us again. 02:52 Yes, and you've been here before, 02:54 you are the President of the West Salem Mission. 02:58 Andy: That is correct. 03:00 And that's in Ohio and you have permission now 03:01 to take your hat off so we can see your eyes... 03:04 I wanted to start off with that 03:07 but we're going to come back and talk about that Mission 03:10 a little later in the Program 03:11 and then, next to you is your beautiful wife, Naomi Weaver, 03:15 Hi Naomi... 03:17 and our precious and gorgeous baby girl, Sarah, 03:20 she is so cute, say, "Hi" Sarah, 03:23 can you wave? 03:24 She says, "Well, I'll look at myself on TV" 03:27 and then we have Delilah Glick 03:30 and Delilah, you have Eli with you, 03:33 both Eli and Sarah are two... 03:35 and then her husband, John Glick is sitting up on the other row, 03:39 John, great to have you here with us, 03:42 and then we have Abe Raber, did I say it right? 03:46 Yes. 03:48 Good, Abe, we're so glad that you've come with us, 03:50 now, you come from a... 03:53 you're coming out of an Amish background 03:56 but obviously, a more liberal Amish Denomination. 04:00 That's correct. 04:01 Correct... because you don't have the beard 04:03 and you've got the English haircut... so... 04:05 Yeah. 04:06 All right... this is just... 04:08 I want to... with your permission 04:10 I'm going to hold off on the music 04:12 till the end of the Program 04:14 because we've got such a fascinating... 04:17 so many fascinating things to talk about today 04:20 and I just want to start Naomi and Andy with you. 04:24 You... how many generations... 04:27 has your family always been Amish? 04:30 Yes, always been Amish. 04:31 Always been Amish... 04:32 Yes. 04:34 You love the Amish lifestyle. 04:35 Oh yeah, I love the Amish lifestyle. 04:37 But something happened to you a few years ago 04:41 tell us what was going on in your heart 04:44 when you were feeling a little empty. 04:48 Well, like I said, I grew up Amish, 04:52 I was part of the Swartzentruber Amish Church 04:54 and ironically the Swartzentruber Amish 04:56 were more or less founded by my great-grandfather... 05:01 my mother was a Swartzentruber Amish 05:03 and so, I was... I was Amish... I mean, all the way 05:08 and I liked it... but... I loved the Lord, 05:12 I really wanted to do what was right 05:15 and my... my apple cart was kind of upset 05:20 when I read a book... it's called the: Martyrs Mirror 05:24 and it is like a compilation of Anabaptist people 05:28 that had died for their faith. 05:29 Okay, Anabaptists... explain that please. 05:32 Anabaptist... those were... 05:33 they were part of the Reformation 05:35 back in the 15s and 1600s 05:38 even though they didn't consider themselves 05:41 Protestants because they didn't protest. 05:44 Shelley: Okay. 05:45 But they were part of the Menno Simons group 05:47 and... yeah I read the... 05:49 some of the accounts of people that had died for their faith 05:53 and I thought, "I want what they had" 05:55 but... 05:57 Shelley: That kind of commitment... dedication... 05:58 Andy: Yes, commitment, dedication 06:00 and I was very committed... very dedicated... 06:03 but as I read there... 06:05 I felt like I was committed and dedicated to people 06:08 and I... I want to be committed and dedicated to people 06:13 that are strictly following the Lord 06:15 but I can't... I felt... I just felt like I was perhaps 06:21 on the wrong side of some of the issues 06:23 because I would watch debates that went on 06:26 between Anabaptists and Monks 06:27 and those debates went on for hours 06:30 and they were smacking my face... 06:34 I thought these people were... that we admired so much 06:37 they don't believe what we believe now 06:40 they... they... they believed in righteousness by faith 06:43 and we didn't... well, we didn't even know what that was 06:47 and so, the one Scripture I remember very well... 06:51 I wish I knew specifically what it was... 06:53 where you read it, but it's in Jeremiah 06:56 where it says, "Accursed is the man that relies on man. " 07:00 Shelley: Yes. 07:01 And I... I went to my Bible and I looked that up 07:03 and I thought... "that is disturbing" 07:07 because that is what we always were taught to do, 07:09 we just do what the Bishop tells you 07:11 and nothing against Bishops... 07:13 I mean, I love... I love my people, 07:15 I consider myself one of them, 07:17 but I thought, "I still have to know what I believe, 07:21 I don't even know what I believe. " 07:22 So, as I understand it... well, I'm going to... 07:28 a little spoiler alert here... 07:30 Andy has written a book that's just a marvelous book 07:32 and I told him... "I don't... " 07:33 as hectic as our schedules are here, 07:35 I rarely have time to read a book 07:38 before I interview somebody who's written a book 07:42 but I was reading your book and I was amazed 07:45 because I think I thought the Amish... 07:48 you think of them as being good, strong, moral people 07:52 and I thought that they probably followed the Bible 07:55 more than they do, 07:57 but the tradition of the Amish is basically... 08:00 can I say this? 08:01 And I hope it isn't too derogatory... 08:07 but some things that are happening in the Amish churches 08:10 seem more like Catholicism to me 08:12 because you're following what's handed down to you 08:16 no matter what the Scripture says, is that right? 08:18 That is true. 08:19 Okay, so, you have a Bishop 08:22 and the rules and regulations, Naomi, 08:24 it was even to how many stitches you could have 08:27 or what kind of top stitching on your clothing... 08:30 everything is... basically you're told what to do. 08:32 Naomi: Yes. 08:33 That's... see.. 08:36 to somebody outside that Community... it's amazing! 08:40 So, what happened as you are beginning to realize 08:44 how... how... because it's really not something that... 08:49 you're not recommended to study the Word a lot. 08:53 No... we are... we are encouraged to read the Bible 08:57 every Sunday or every other Sunday... 09:00 we were not encouraged to read the Bible during the week 09:03 because we were taught... 09:04 if you start reading the Bible too much, 09:06 you will fall away from God 09:08 and... because falling away... 09:11 leaving the church is... equals falling away from God 09:13 I mean, that's... and so, that was my circle, 09:16 now, there is Amish... 09:17 there is a lot of Amish people out there today 09:19 that are very spiritual... and they read their Bibles every day 09:22 and they have their devotion time 09:24 and so, I can't speak for those people 09:26 because, I mean... 09:27 there is a lot of God-loving Amish people out there. 09:30 Shelley: Yes. 09:31 We have good moral standards 09:33 and we... we had good moral standards 09:35 but we... we were just spiritually dead in so many ways 09:39 it's so formal... I guess, I would say. 09:41 So, let's just fast forward 09:43 because we have a lot to talk about with a lot of people today 09:45 how did God wake you up to His truths 09:51 and to recognize 09:53 the Ten Commandments weren't nailed to the cross 09:55 and righteousness by faith... 09:57 how did He wake you up to the everlasting gospel? 09:59 Well, I always... we always believed in the Ten Commandments 10:04 because we had memorized them in school 10:06 and so, we were taught 10:07 that the Ten Commandments were still binding 10:11 but it goes back to that book I was reading, 10:15 the Martyrs Mirror it's called... 10:17 it's like Fox's Book of Martyrs. 10:18 Shelley: Okay. 10:19 That's where I learned about righteousness by faith. 10:21 Even though there were... they were contradictive 10:24 because those people were coming out of great darkness 10:26 into light, 10:27 they didn't all agree on... you know, amongst themselves, 10:30 Um, I could still learn a whole lot, 10:34 I started realizing that I can be right with God 10:39 and still have struggles in my life... and it's not... 10:42 you know, God says, 10:43 "Be ye perfect even as I am perfect" 10:45 but it doesn't start there, it starts by a surrender 10:50 and then... 10:51 Shelley: So we will ever be perfect... 10:53 He's living His life out in us. 10:55 So, I realize that I can accept Jesus as my Savior 10:58 and then I have His righteousness 11:02 and... thus, I am perfect. 11:04 Shelley: Amen. 11:05 As long as I remain surrendered 11:07 and this has become by far, 11:10 my most favorite topic of the Bible, 11:13 there's a lot of great things in the Bible... like prophecy... 11:18 I love prophecy... but what does prophecy do for me if I'm lost? 11:22 Shelley: Absolutely. 11:24 Andy: People need Jesus 11:25 and people need to learn how we can remain surrendered to Jesus 11:31 and that will transform our life. 11:33 You want to talk about good works, 11:35 surrender your life to Jesus, and believe that you're forgiven 11:38 God will take you on an amazing journey 11:41 and some of the things that you used to say, 11:44 they just don't come out any more, 11:46 it's like... you look back and say, 11:48 "What has God wrought, I don't know... " 11:51 like Jesus said, you plant a seed and it grows 11:53 and you know not how what happened 11:55 and that was my experience. 11:57 It's not that I was good... it's just God... God is awesome. 12:01 God is awesome... so you're getting right with God 12:05 but it is putting you in a... a really difficult place 12:09 with your Amish Bishop and with the Amish religion 12:13 we're going to just fast forward 12:16 you ended up being "shunned" and tell us what shunning is. 12:20 Well, shunning is a form of... it's excommunication... 12:24 where you lose your connection with your family 12:27 and your... you're not part of your community any more 12:30 and so, you can't do any business with your community, 12:33 I mean, I could still talk to my family and my friends 12:35 but it has changed drastically and ironically, 12:38 I was shunned because I told my Leaders, 12:42 I said, "I don't read in the Bible 12:43 where we are to shun people 12:45 just because they want to go to church somewhere else" 12:48 and they said, "Well, if you don't believe in shunning, 12:51 then we're going to have to shun you" 12:53 and I said, "Well, you do what you got to do, 12:56 I got to have a clear conscience" 12:58 and so, to answer your question, 13:00 "What is shunning?" 13:01 It's excommunication. 13:03 Okay, all right, so... 13:05 Naomi, you have a man here who is seeking the truth, 13:09 your sweet husband... father of your eight children 13:13 it's a quiver full... 13:15 I always tease you all at ASI about that, 13:17 but what was it like for you? 13:20 I mean, your mother was living with you 13:21 you all were living on the family farm... 13:24 buying it from your mother 13:25 what was it like for you as this decision 13:29 was about to be made 13:31 that I know you all wrestled with this quite a bit 13:33 before the shunning... 13:35 how did you feel... 13:36 did you feel like the earth was just opening up... 13:39 about to swallow you? 13:40 Yes, it was very hard... 13:42 I felt like... I'm losing everything 13:44 and the hardest part was probably to see that I... 13:48 I can't help my mom anymore 13:50 and that she's not going to accept me 13:54 but after I decided to let God lead me 13:57 and just lean on Him, things went much better. 14:00 You know, I was telling someone 14:02 this morning, as a matter of fact... 14:04 sometimes we think we've made a sacrifice for the Lord 14:08 and a sacrifice for the truth 14:11 but I don't know that... 14:13 many of us have not experienced what you all have been through 14:17 but God has so blessed you since 14:21 and you have an Adventist Christian family now 14:25 that has accepted you... 14:28 you are both baptized into the Adventist Church 14:30 and we want to get to everybody else's story 14:33 so, kind of tell us about West Salem Mission... 14:36 when... when you came out 14:38 and suddenly you've got no church family 14:41 because you've been cut off from family and friends 14:43 and your income... everything is changing... 14:47 but God put it in your heart to minister to these people. 14:51 That's true... I was always... 14:54 I had a lot of interest in spiritual things 14:57 and I was just... I was just studying religion 15:01 so, I went to... I got all kinds of Christian literature 15:06 and it was when I came across 15:08 some Bible prophecy books and stuff 15:13 that I... I started realizing that we are all... 15:17 we're at the end of time and we are... 15:19 we are all part of Bible Prophecy, 15:21 we are either on the negative side or on the positive side 15:24 and so I just had to narrow down, 15:26 the Lord helped me find the truth 15:27 and I just... 15:29 and I realized that some of the Anabaptist people 15:33 were Sabbath keepers... 15:34 I really like the idea... 15:36 if you want to talk about preaching the faith 15:38 and living the faith that was once delivered 15:40 unto the saints, like it says in Jude, 15:42 I thought, "Well, it doesn't... 15:44 we don't read about the nine Commandments 15:46 there's 10 Commandments 15:47 and I knew I had the Lord 15:48 but I really wanted to keep all of His Commandments 15:52 because I love the Lord and... and so... 15:55 yeah, it became... it became very clear 15:57 after reading the book of Revelation, 16:00 all the prophecies on end-time Movement, 16:03 it became very obvious to me what the direction we are going. 16:06 So, this is what the new... you began... 16:09 in the book... he talks about 16:11 going to the Adventist Church for the first time 16:14 and looking around and thinking, "these are my people... " 16:17 because of the way they were dressed, 16:19 I thought... that made me laugh 16:20 but this is what then... started you... 16:24 your desire to reach the Amish is why you began... 16:28 tell us what the West Salem Mission is. 16:32 Well, the West Salem Mission is... 16:34 I guess we consider it like 16:36 an Amish Mennonite Sabbatarian Movement 16:39 that is within the Seventh-day Adventist church. 16:41 Shelley: Okay. 16:43 And we realized as we studied that... 16:47 this is a message that is... 16:49 is in harmony with a lot of the things that the Amish believe 16:52 as far as agriculture and living in the country 16:56 and we... we thought "Well, we're sitting on a gold mine" 17:02 we have common things like education 17:04 and evangelism... all these things... 17:06 and the Amish would benefit greatly from this 17:10 and so, our goal is to help the Amish see that, 17:15 you know, 17:16 well, first off, there's nothing wrong with being Amish 17:18 or the Amish lifestyle 17:20 it's just... our faith has to be in God. 17:23 Shelley: Amen. 17:24 And if our faith is really in God, 17:25 then, our faith is in His Word because Jesus is the Word 17:28 and... and so... it is our goal to help... 17:32 help a lot of the confusion 17:35 and just unhappiness that is in our people. 17:38 Okay, this started... 17:40 the West Salem Mission started in 2015 17:42 and you brought some pictures to show us, 17:45 you are building the Community Center 17:47 and it is going to be the church, 17:49 Community Center... Training Center. 17:51 Andy: Yes, that's correct. 17:53 Shelley: And is this... 17:54 all... everybody is building it together? 17:57 Andy: Yes, yeah, we... we were used to barn raising 18:01 and Work Bees and that kind of stuff 18:02 so, it will be built... we'll have a church raising 18:08 and one of our new converts, he's actually in the... 18:11 he's the Leader of the building project but... yeah. 18:15 Okay, and that precious circle of children 18:17 that's just having a good time in your backyard, isn't it. 18:21 Andy: Our hayfield. Shelley: In your hayfield... 18:23 Andy: Yes. 18:24 All right now, this is the Sabbath School... 18:26 and Naomi you told me that the little girls 18:28 till they're two wear their... 18:30 or they always wear their white caps to church, is that correct? 18:32 Naomi: No, up until two they do always white... 18:35 Shelley: Okay. 18:37 Naomi: But from there up... they always wear black to church 18:39 but since we're not a member of the Amish church... 18:42 Shelley: It doesn't matter. 18:43 Naomi: No, it doesn't matter, we do whatever we want. 18:45 Shelley: So, you're not worried about those traditions 18:46 so much anymore. 18:48 Naomi: No. 18:49 You know, with my naturally curly hair, 18:51 everybody always thinks I wear a wig... 18:53 I mean, I get... I get that so often 18:55 they think... people think I wear a wig, 18:57 I need to just borrow a bonnet... 18:59 I mean, that would really help me a lot. 19:02 So, now, we've got a few more pictures I think 19:07 this is the church group. 19:09 Andy: The church group, yes. 19:11 Shelley: God is blessing. 19:13 Andy: Yes, it exploded in the last year 19:15 and we have... we have more interest outside of Ohio 19:19 so there are a lot of people in the Amish churches 19:22 and some of the Mennonites too 19:23 that are under conviction of the Sabbath. 19:25 Shelley: Praise the Lord. 19:27 Andy: These are people that love the Lord 19:28 and they say, "Why don't we keep the Creation Sabbath?" 19:30 I mean, that was not a shadow of things to come... 19:32 that was a memorial of the past. 19:33 Shelley: Right. 19:34 Andy: And so... yeah, there's a lot of conviction out there 19:38 and so... the Lord is bringing them in 19:39 as fast as we know what to do with them... 19:41 that is just a reality. 19:42 Shelley: Glory to God. Andy: Yeah. 19:44 So, you're baptized members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 19:47 now we've got the Glicks with us 19:49 and John, tell us a little of your experience 19:54 and how God is calling you out of that darkness into His light. 19:57 Hmmm... yeah... 20:00 pause... 20:01 I guess, we were having just a lot of persecution 20:06 among the church from things... different things... 20:11 Shelley: When you say, "We" you and Delilah were like...? 20:16 John: Actually, mostly me, she was very little in that 20:20 and for a while I thought, you know, 20:23 it might be that I didn't want to read the Bible that she... 20:26 I didn't want her to know where I'm going with it 20:29 because I was afraid she won't follow it, 20:32 I expected that she wouldn't follow 20:35 and I didn't expect the right thing from God 20:37 but with... I didn't do anything that brought her to go with me, 20:44 it was... it was all God... 20:46 Shelley: Praise God. 20:47 Yes, when I... 20:49 when I... I got... I went to church 20:54 and they told us that I had to be excommunicated 20:57 for a few things I had been doing, so... 21:00 Shelley: Can you kind of give us what... I mean... 21:03 were you going to the bar in your buggy or... were you... 21:05 I was... I was using power tools 21:08 and I was... I drove a Skid Steer... 21:11 they knew about the power tools 21:14 but they didn't know about the Skid Steer... 21:16 and the reason I drove the Skid Steer 21:18 was to help a person... 21:20 and the power tools were not doing it, 21:23 just to rebel against the church I loved my church... 21:27 I had no intention of leaving my church 21:30 even at this point... 21:32 but when they told me that I had to go home, 21:35 I went into a total rebellious stage 21:40 and I... I had really... I had suicidal thoughts 21:47 so, I read the Bible and I just went home. 21:50 Shelley: Can I pause there for a second 21:53 because I just want to say, I don't think any of us... 21:56 unless we were part of that community... 21:59 if you can imagine being excommunicated 22:01 where you're suddenly separated from family... 22:04 that got very reduced interaction with family members 22:08 from your church... and you all are... 22:11 you work so much together 22:13 kind of an agricultural culturing community... 22:16 and suddenly... it is just like... 22:19 the rug's been pulled out from under you 22:22 I can understand how you would get into a dark place. 22:24 So, the verse that really got me thinking 22:27 to commit suicide was... 22:30 when they told me that my... my... one of my Ministers... 22:34 it was like four... four Ministers, 22:36 a Deacon and a Bishop standing in front of me, 22:40 one of them popped up because I willfully sinned 22:44 and they called a sin... "transgression of their rules" 22:47 because I willfully drove the Skid Steer 22:49 and did not confess myself... 22:52 that they had to get it from some other people... 22:54 that that would be "willfully sinned" 22:58 and, therefore, there's no more remission... 23:01 there's no more sacrifice for your sin... 23:03 so that pointed me... 23:05 Shelley: So you thought you were lost for eternity? 23:07 John: I thought I was lost for eternity 23:08 and I felt like that... I felt totally condemned. 23:10 I thought I was a total sinner 23:13 and I'm... I was a sinner but... I still am... 23:16 so... 23:17 but because I had to go home and was just... I was there... 23:22 I picked the kids up on my way home... 23:24 Shelley: And you have how many? 23:26 John: I have eight... or... I mean... six... 23:30 Shelley: You'd better tell Delilah 23:32 about these other two that you just claimed. 23:34 John: I guess I was listening to them... 23:36 Shelley: You have six. John: So six... 23:38 at that time we had five... 23:41 Shelley: Okay. 23:43 John: And so I picked the kids up at the neighbor's 23:45 because it was Council meeting... 23:47 the church that we went to was Council meeting that time 23:50 the kids don't go with us 23:51 so I picked up the kids and I went home 23:53 and I still don't know why I picked the kids up 23:56 because that was not my plan... 23:57 when I came to the neighbor's where the kids were, 24:00 I turned in... 24:02 and I went in and the kids asked me, "Why are you here?" 24:05 Well, it was... I was in my darkest moment of my life 24:09 and I said just, "Don't ask me questions, 24:11 I'm here to pick you up. " 24:12 So, the neighbor girl helped to get everything together 24:16 and we went home... 24:17 I had hitched the horse... we went into the house... 24:20 and that part of my life I can't remember everything 24:24 because I was... it was just so dark for me... 24:26 so, anyways I sat down... started reading the Bible... 24:30 I finally said, "Surely, if I do commit suicide, 24:35 surely God will give me the answer... 24:38 maybe there's that little slight hope... 24:40 even if He gives me that right to commit suicide... 24:43 if God will give me that right... 24:46 I would... maybe have a little chance to get in the kingdom. " 24:50 And so, I started reading the Bible... 24:53 and I started with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John... 24:57 that's where I was... 24:59 I was not an Old Testament believer at all at that time, 25:01 and I found so many promises, 25:07 God told me something but He told me totally different 25:10 from what I was looking for, 25:12 and the kids came at lunch time 25:14 and they said, "I'm hungry" 25:15 I said, "Kids, I'm... I'm... I don't have time" 25:20 I said, "Just go out in the pantry 25:21 and find something to eat. " 25:22 So, pretty soon, they came back again, 25:25 they said, "Dad, we're really hungry" 25:27 I said, "I don't care, just go out and find something, 25:30 just... I don't care what you do with the kitchen or the pantry 25:33 just do anything you have to... leave me alone. " 25:36 Because they were almost to lose their dad... 25:40 that's... I mean... that was... now I think back... 25:42 that was the best thing I could have ever done, 25:44 so I... 25:46 Shelley: Reading the Bible was the best thing you did... 25:48 Yeah, reading the Bible is the best thing... 25:50 and not... just neglecting my kids at that time 25:52 because I was almost going to neglect them for life. 25:55 So, I just... so whatever they did to the pantry 25:58 I don't know... but they quit bugging me, 26:01 I read the Bible from... I came home around 10 o'clock, 26:04 and six o'clock that night, 26:06 my wife came home with her parents. 26:08 Shelley: Wow! 26:09 John: And by that, my life was still very dark 26:13 but it had changed 80 percent, 26:17 my wife comes in just crying her eyes out 26:20 because her parents just brought her home 26:24 and they had things to say that she didn't like to hear 26:27 and she said, "I don't know what life has... 26:30 I don't know why I'm here. " 26:32 I said, "Guess what? I found something. " 26:34 She said, "You didn't read the Bible did you?" 26:36 I said, "Yes, I did. " 26:38 She said, "I was afraid you were going to do that. " 26:41 Laughter... 26:43 So, that was the beginning of all this 26:46 and then it just... it just kind of led on 26:48 into... we... 26:51 I was excommunicated for six weeks 26:53 and then... in that six weeks' time, 26:56 well, two weeks into it, 26:58 my wife wanted to get excommunicated, 27:00 we went to the Bishop and... and he said, 27:02 "Oh, that would make my 'shunning part' way too easy" 27:05 because, if a husband is shunned among the Swartzentruber Amish, 27:09 there is no relationship... 27:11 I can't eat with her... I can't... I can't... 27:13 yes, I can't... she can't take anything from my hand... 27:17 there's been times when they told them 27:19 they can't even sleep in the same bed. 27:21 Shelley: Wow! 27:22 John: For us it wasn't like that 27:24 but I know of people that... that was forced 27:27 so, yeah, she... she couldn't... 27:31 but on the way home, after we met the Bishop, 27:34 she said, "Guess what? Shunning is over... 27:37 we're going home... we're going to pull the curtains 27:40 we're going to lock the doors and I'm going to eat with you, 27:42 we're going to be a married couple, 27:44 like we were for six years. " 27:48 and I was like, "I love you" 27:51 but I said, "You know I'm not pushing you into this, 27:53 this is your choice" 27:55 I said, "I'm not trying to get you in trouble... 27:57 I got in trouble by the church... " 27:59 and I said, "that is your choice. " 28:01 And she said, "That is my choice and that's what I would do. " 28:04 So, that's what we did for the next four weeks, 28:07 we pulled the curtains 28:09 and locked the doors when we wanted to eat 28:11 so nobody would walk in 28:14 because the Amish... they don't knock on the door, 28:16 if they come in your house, they walk right in. 28:17 So, that was the reason we locked the door 28:21 so nobody would walk in on us 28:23 and see us eating together. 28:24 Shelley: Wow! 28:26 And from there, I got taken back as a member in the church 28:30 six weeks after 28:32 I had to kneel down in front of the Bishop 28:36 and confess my sins... 28:38 Shelley: And confess your sins using the Skid Steer. 28:39 John: Yes. 28:41 And I don't mean... you know... 28:42 that sounds so unreasonable... it is unreasonable... 28:46 I mean, it is amazing to allow one man 28:50 to have that much power in my mind, 28:53 that's a very unreasonable thing 28:55 and to connect that... God is not a controlling God, 28:59 I mean, even like, we've talked earlier... 29:02 it's an idea of surrender... you yield control to Him... 29:06 He never takes it from you, 29:08 so it's just... this... it's amazing 29:10 and if I hadn't read this book already, 29:12 I'd be shocked... but quickly... because we're running... 29:15 I don't want to run out of time before we get to Abe 29:19 and to your story of your book 29:22 but how did you meet this one? 29:24 In the time that I was shunned that first time... 29:29 in that first six weeks... 29:30 I forget when it was in those six weeks 29:33 but in those six weeks, I finally... 29:35 I started calling ex-Amish people, 29:38 I'm like... because I... because I was reading the Bible 29:40 and I'd seen some of the stuff... 29:41 the traditions... is not lining up with the Bible. 29:43 Shelley: Okay. 29:45 John: And so, I called his brother-in-law 29:47 and we talked against Andy. 29:50 Shelley: Did you know Andy, 29:53 I mean, you all went to the same church before... 29:56 John: Kind of... yeah... 29:58 Andy: Different district... same church. 30:00 Shelley: Okay, same church... different district... 30:01 so not the same church building. 30:02 John: Yeah. Shelley: Okay. 30:04 John: So, finally I said, "You know, I'm just... " 30:06 oh, I was... I was talking to my cousin 30:09 and then she said, "Oh, you need to talk to Andy" 30:12 and I said, "Yeah, maybe, but I don't agree with him 30:16 but maybe he would... yeah" 30:17 so she gave me her number and so, I called him, 30:22 so I called Naomi and... and I... 30:24 when she picked up, I was like, 30:26 "This is John Glick... " 30:28 they thought I'm hard-core Amish... 30:30 they didn't know what I'm going through, 30:31 and... 30:33 But would that be... I mean, would that be a clue to you, 30:36 he wasn't hard-core Amish 30:37 because he was using the phone and it wasn't... 30:39 I mean, they only can use the phone 30:41 if it's a medical emergency or something... 30:43 because I remember in your book you said 30:45 that somebody died and you weren't sure who had died 30:48 but you couldn't even phone to find out... 30:50 you went to the funeral not knowing 30:52 which relative had died, right? 30:54 So, that clued you in... 30:56 there's something going on when he called? 30:58 Andy: Yes, the fact that he called me 31:01 told me that he was on his way out 31:04 whether he knows it or not 31:05 and he was talking about all the Amish traditions 31:09 and I said, "You know, the Bible says, 31:11 'in vain do they worship me, 31:12 keepin for doctrines the commandments of men. '" 31:14 And I thought, "Well, but the verse doesn't stop there" 31:17 and that's what he wanted to hear, 31:20 but I said, "and it also says that 31:22 'full well ye reject the commandment of God, 31:24 that you may keep your own traditions'" 31:26 and I said, I just inserted... and I said, 31:28 "that is why I keep the Sabbath instead of Sunday" 31:31 and so, I planted a seed 31:33 because, you know, everybody loves... 31:36 if you leave the Amish church, everybody loves the verse, 31:39 "In vain do they worship me, 31:40 keeping for doctrines the commandments of men. " 31:42 But, how about the rest of the story? 31:44 So, before I jump in, 31:48 let's ask you about the rest of the story, 31:50 you called him, what did you think about 31:52 when he started talking about the Sabbath 31:53 and the Old Testament 31:54 since you weren't an Old Testament... 31:56 I thought he was totally crazy but I was... 31:57 I was so far in the Bible 31:59 that I was convinced that whatever the Bible says, 32:02 I... I'm... I am fully dedicated to believe, 32:05 and so, I remember going home telling my wife about... 32:08 that he said something this, 32:10 I forgot about that till few weeks ago... he brought that up 32:13 but I do remember that a little bit, 32:14 the Sabbath was definitely not part of me at that time, 32:19 definitely not at all... 32:21 but I just wanted to talk to... I didn't care who I talked to... 32:24 anything ex-Amish, anything that believe... 32:27 I mean, there's ex-Amish that don't really care 32:30 about talking about the Bible, 32:32 they're just out there to... because they're out there... 32:35 and that doesn't mean that they'll never come to the truth, 32:38 but I was looking for 32:39 people that want to talk about the Bible, 32:41 really want to talk about the New Testament is what I left 32:46 so, I guess that just kind of led... 32:50 that first phone call just kind of led into... 32:52 and another thing that really got us... 32:54 my wife said, 32:56 "There's no way I can leave this... this lifestyle... " 33:00 I never had a problem with the lifestyle, 33:02 and since Andy's were remaining, you know, 33:05 supporting the lifestyle... it pulled us more towards that, 33:09 so, people, now they might say, 33:12 "Oh, you're worshipping your clothes" 33:14 that's not the case in me, 33:16 I don't care... sometimes I wear jeans, 33:18 it's just... this is part of me... 33:22 this is part of my life... this lifestyle... 33:24 and I would feel way out of my place 33:27 not in this lifestyle for the most part, 33:30 when certain things, yeah... I'll stop at jeans, so. 33:36 I mean, we're Texans, we understand... 33:38 when I first came here, 33:40 people said, "You dress like a cowgirl" 33:42 I said, "I do... " but anyway... 33:44 let me... I wanted to share something with you 33:46 because I think this is an important part, 33:49 one Scripture that the Amish use a whole lot 33:52 to prove their point 33:54 that you should follow traditions of men over the Bible 33:59 is 2nd Timothy 3:14 that says, 34:02 "But you must continue in things 34:05 which you've learned and been assured of, 34:08 knowing from whom you have learned... " 34:10 so as these traditions are passed down by the bishops 34:14 and there's different traditions in different districts 34:18 what they're saying here is... they use this Scripture to say, 34:23 "Now you got to do whatever we've handed down to you" 34:27 but they're taking it out of context 34:29 because he goes on, 34:30 and this is Paul writing to Timothy 34:33 in 2nd Timothy 3 I'm going to repeat that... 34:36 he says in verse 14... 34:38 "But you must continue in the things which you have learned 34:41 and been assured of, 34:42 knowing from whom you have learned them, 34:46 and that from childhood 34:48 you have known the Holy Scriptures, 34:51 which are able to make you wise for salvation 34:54 through faith which is in Christ Jesus" 34:56 and then he goes on and says, 34:58 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, 35:01 is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for correction, 35:04 for instruction... for righteousness... " 35:07 so, what he is saying... the very verse that you... 35:11 any time you pluck a verse out of context, 35:13 you could twist it to your own destruction... 35:16 and what Paul is saying and when he is talking about 35:18 "All Scripture" by-the-way... 35:19 he's talking about the Old Testament... 35:21 because they didn't have the New Testament back then 35:23 so... so how did you... 35:26 it's okay Delilah, he can crawl anywhere he wants. 35:32 Delilah, when he began studying and reading 35:37 and you're like, 35:39 "Oh no... you're going to go back to the Bible" 35:42 because you really believed that it had to be the tradition 35:45 over the Bible, right? 35:46 Yes, I did at first but it didn't take me long until 35:50 I noticed that the Bible is really what I wanted to... 35:54 Shelley: Praise God... praise God. 35:57 Now, I'll say one thing and... 35:58 her family was a very tight-knitted family, 36:02 they had a very Godly family 36:06 yeah... a close family... 36:10 that would be a Godly family I mean... 36:12 a lot of traditions over the Bible 36:15 but their family was very tight, 36:17 way more than mine was 36:19 so it was easier for me to go away from my family 36:21 than it was for her... 36:23 so, that was one thing... 36:24 she didn't want me to read the Bible, so... 36:26 And I can... I mean... that would be very difficult 36:29 but what you said about Andy remaining in his clothes, 36:34 I want you to know... Andy and Naomi Weaver are all in... 36:38 they are part of this Adventist Movement 36:41 and they know the Bible and they rely on the Bible 36:45 and just because they still dress as Amish, 36:49 we were talking about that in the Green Room 36:53 is Amish a culture or is Amish a religion? 36:57 well, nobody can really answer that for us 37:00 but I think I admire you... 37:02 and first of all, it is your culture... 37:05 it is what you've grown up with and what you're used to, 37:07 I can't imagine just completely changing 37:10 but I admire you 37:12 because I think that's what's going to attract people 37:15 like it attracted Delilah and John, 37:18 is that... they're not... 37:21 you're not saying, "Oh, you have to forsake 37:24 your whole lifestyle. " 37:25 It's just saying, "Let's get with Jesus" 37:30 baby talk... 37:34 so, you all have... are about to be baptized, right? 37:39 You have this... and what has your experience been 37:43 now that God's... 37:47 the light of Scripture has shown into your life, 37:50 are you finding greater fullness and contentment? 37:53 John: Indeed. Shelley: Good. 37:54 John: Yes, I have no desire to get baptized 38:00 to the Seventh-day Adventist 38:02 but by the Seventh-day Adventist. 38:04 Shelley: Yeah, you're being baptized into Christ. 38:06 Into Christ... and at a later point, 38:08 I would consider to become a member. 38:10 Delilah: Yes. John: Yes. 38:12 Shelley: Understood... understood. 38:13 John: The reason I say that this way is 38:15 because I had a huge struggle with this... 38:17 the Amish when they baptize, 38:19 they baptize them "to the church" 38:20 and I want people to know that the Seventh-day Adventist 38:25 don't baptize people "to the Adventist" 38:28 it's baptized by an Adventist Pastor... to Jesus Christ 38:33 and membership is at a later part... 38:36 or it can be at the same time. 38:37 Shelley: Absolutely. 38:38 John: But they're two different things. 38:40 Shelley: Absolutely... we are baptized into Christ. 38:42 John: Yes. 38:44 Shelley: Amen... Abe, we have had you over here 38:46 in the corner and not let you say much yet 38:48 so, you were a member of a more progressive Denomination 38:53 of the Amish group 38:55 and was excommunicated for what purpose? 38:58 Well, basically for driving a car... 39:01 and you can't be an Amish man and drive a car. 39:04 That's something... in Andy's book he mentions that 39:07 it's more acceptable to drive your horse and buggy to a bar 39:11 than to drive a car to church. 39:13 That is correct. 39:14 Oh, that's just amazing to me 39:16 but tell us how you became involved with the Weavers 39:19 and West Salem Mission. 39:21 Well, I've had some health issues... 39:24 I hurt my hip when I was a kid... 39:27 and I was always reading literature 39:29 trying to figure out how to fix it, 39:31 and then, one day I came across a book... a natural cures book 39:39 and the author was... 39:41 explained in the book that he was an ex-member 39:46 of the Illuminati... 39:48 and... and that got me... got my curiosity 39:51 and so I started researching the Illuminati 39:55 and Secret Societies and stuff like that 39:58 and in the process, I came across a guy... 40:03 an Adventist guy that explains that stuff... 40:07 Secret Societies... 40:10 Freemasons and he came across the Pope 40:13 and... and that pretty much ended my... 40:16 So you started getting Bible doctrine... 40:18 somebody is preaching against Secret Societies. 40:22 Abe: Yes. Shelley: Okay. 40:23 Abe: And that ended my research and that... it made total... 40:27 he explained prophecy and it made sense from the Bible 40:34 and I was... I mean I was watching this stuff 40:39 for probably... 40:42 and the place where I worked... 40:44 I mean, I'm Amish... we don't have Internet at home 40:47 at the place where I work, I had Internet access, 40:50 so, I had had all kinds of access 40:53 to all kinds of information online at work 40:55 so, I would print stuff out and take it home and read it 41:02 and yeah... and so I... 41:05 and this was going on for a year 41:09 or probably two years... a year and a half... two years 41:12 and then my brother died very... 41:16 my brother was going to Medical School... 41:20 he wasn't an Amish... 41:21 he was never a member of the Amish church, 41:25 and he... because of some circumstances 41:29 he started getting seizures and... 41:31 Shelley: Oh, I'm sorry. 41:33 Died very suddenly. 41:34 Shelley: And very young. 41:36 Abe: Yeah, he was two years younger than me. 41:39 Shelley: I'm so sorry. 41:41 Abe: Anyway, that was the only comfort I had... 41:44 was listening and watching 41:47 and by this time I had a Smartphone 41:51 because I was convinced that 41:55 the Amish rules are not going to save me... 41:58 I didn't... I had no more respect for the rules, basically 42:03 so, I had a Smartphone at home 42:05 and I could watch this stuff at home 42:08 and I knew by this time I knew that... 42:11 that I was convinced that the Adventists have the truth 42:17 and... but I figured well... but I loved being Amish, 42:23 I like being Amish... the lifestyle... 42:25 and I was not ever going to leave even though... 42:30 well, I... in my mind I was... 42:32 I was thinking that when the Sunday Law comes in... 42:36 then I'll leave... 42:38 but I'll... up till then, I'll probably stay Amish. 42:42 And, then... less than a year later 42:46 my dad died very suddenly from Pneumonia 42:52 and at that point, I was... 42:55 I remember at the funeral I was like, 43:00 "Man! if that were me, I'd probably be lost 43:04 because I'm living a lie. " 43:06 Shelley: Yeah. 43:08 And... so I... at that point, I was starting... 43:15 I thought, "Something has to change" 43:16 because I knew about the Sabbath... 43:18 and... but I wasn't keeping the Sabbath 43:22 but I was basically convicted so in... 43:26 and that was in February when my dad died 43:30 then in April... I had... I started keeping the Sabbath 43:36 just on my own... 43:38 I was still going to an Amish... 43:40 well, that summer I had three... 43:42 I had part in three Amish weddings 43:43 and that would not have worked if I would have left 43:48 I wanted... the weddings were close family members 43:52 and I decided I'm going to wait to leave 43:56 till after the weddings were over, 44:00 and the last one was around Thanksgiving, 44:03 so... and at that point, I desperately wanted to... 44:10 I thought I was the only Amish person 44:13 that believed in the Sabbath, 44:14 I had no clue about West Salem Mission at that time 44:18 but I desperately wanted... 44:20 I don't think I even prayed about it 44:22 because I figured... 44:24 "there's nobody out there that thinks like me. " 44:26 and then... well, at this point, I had a Facebook Account 44:34 and I saw this Amish lady... 44:37 Swartzentruber Amish lady on Facebook 44:40 and she commented... this was on a Saturday evening, 44:44 she commented that she had worn her Amish clothes 44:48 to church today 44:50 and I was like, "What in the world... 44:53 there's... these people... 44:55 these are Amish people that keep the Sabbath apparently" 44:58 and so I looked... I dug a little deeper 45:03 and I was like, 45:05 "Oh, but they're Swartzentruber Amish 45:06 and we... our Denomination 45:10 doesn't have anything to do with the Swartzentrubers" 45:13 and so, I just kind of ignored it for a while 45:18 and then later that summer... 45:20 it was about two months later, 45:22 on YouTube, I found Andy and Naomi on... 45:28 when they were here the other time... on 3ABN 45:33 and after the interview, they had the contact information 45:42 and an e-mail address and I thought to myself, 45:46 "Man, these people think exactly like I do 45:50 I have to... I have to come in contact with them. " 45:56 Shelley: Praise God... amen. 45:57 And so, after the... so I sent them... 46:01 before I went... that was in the evening 46:03 when I was watching it 46:04 and before I went to bed, I sent them an e-mail 46:08 and by the next morning, 46:10 my neighbor... they sent me a text back... 46:15 and it turned out, 46:16 my neighbor also is convicted with the Sabbath 46:22 and he knew Andy and Naomi and he had my e-mail... 46:29 the information I had sent the evening before... 46:34 he had that on the text and told me he wants to come 46:38 and talk with me sometime 46:40 it turns out my neighbor is... 46:42 his wife doesn't believe in the Sabbath 46:46 so he goes to a Mennonite Church but... 46:50 yeah... so he took me up... 46:53 I was still... I didn't have a car at that time, 46:56 I had no way to... 46:58 and they lived about an hour and ten minutes from me. 47:02 So... but that's how you got started... and it's just... 47:06 I've got a wonderful little co-host here 47:09 and he's kind of... 47:10 he hasn't decided if he wants to join me for sure, 47:13 we only have a couple of minutes left 47:16 and thank you... 47:17 I'm so glad that you all have found one another 47:20 but we have to talk about your book 47:23 and the book is called... "The Anabaptist Remnant" 47:27 Andy: Yes, "The Anabaptist Remnant" 47:29 Shelley: And this book is coming out soon and very soon 47:32 and it... I have to tell you Andy, 47:34 to hear the story... it was so enlightening 47:39 because if you want to... 47:40 if you are trying to share the gospel with... 47:46 somebody who is Amish or Mennonite, 47:51 you have to understand that they may resist 47:53 when you just go at them with Scripture, 47:56 because they don't understand 47:59 that Scripture is actually higher than their tradition 48:04 but there's so much I learned about the Amish... 48:07 and I know they're precious people 48:08 and I know how much you all still love them 48:10 and that's why you're ministering to them 48:12 but one thing I have to say, 48:14 "You are a very good Bible Teacher... " 48:17 you're very practical about your doctrinal truths 48:21 and how you teach. 48:22 Oh, praise the Lord, I love the truth... 48:24 I love the Bible and we talked a lot about the Bible today... 48:28 or little bit about the Bible, 48:29 about Old Testament and New Testament 48:32 one of the beauties that I've learned in Adventism is 48:36 that truth does not change... it just grows, 48:41 it just... there's a progression in truth 48:46 and that's what you see from the Old Testament 48:47 going to the New Testament... 48:49 Shelley: Amen. 48:50 Proverbs 4:18, 48:52 "The path of the righteous just shines brighter and brighter 48:56 until the coming of the day. " 48:57 Yeah, so, the New Testament is vital, 48:59 it is very important for us to have 49:01 but you really can't understand the book of Revelation 49:05 and then even Hebrews and even the gospels 49:08 if you don't know the Old Testament 49:10 so it's really a progression of truth... 49:12 it's in the New Testament. 49:13 Well, I just want to highly recommend this book 49:18 because as JD said, "It doesn't matter who you are 49:23 or what Denomination you are, 49:26 you can really learn from this" 49:28 you're just a very practical person 49:31 as you put forth these truths 49:33 and tell us how God led you into writing that book. 49:37 It's a long story, I've had... so many people tell me, 49:41 "Andy, you ought to write a book" 49:43 and I thought, "Andy writing a book... 49:44 I'm a farmer, I'm not an author" 49:47 so, I just started writing our life story 49:51 that was a few years ago 49:53 and I thought, "Well, I did pretty good" 49:55 I just remembered a lot of things that I had forgotten 49:57 and then about a year later 49:59 I went back and I read it again and I thought, 50:02 "It's horrible... " 50:03 I was very critical of people 50:04 and I was very... you know, 50:06 kind of... lashing out at people 50:08 and so I made a lot of changes 50:10 and then it was probably another six months or a year, 50:14 I read it again and I thought, 50:16 "Well, I sound very legalistic it's all Law... Law... Law... 50:20 I mean that's not what I believe" 50:21 I could see that I was growing really fast 50:24 every time I went back and read it 50:27 and so, yeah, it just... 50:30 it was a... it took a couple of years 50:32 and I can't wait to revise it because you know, I... 50:37 but it's... I believe... I believe it's a... 50:42 it gives people a really good idea where we come from 50:46 and some of the struggles we have 50:47 and... 50:49 Well, and beyond that, it really... 50:50 you do a great presentation of the truth... 50:53 a great presentation of righteousness by faith 50:55 and... but... and understanding 50:58 that when we talk of obedience, that is not legalism 51:03 obedience... our obedience is motivated by love for God 51:08 and it is just a sign of our loyalty to Him. 51:11 Jesus said... if we love Him, 51:13 we will keep His Commandments didn't He? 51:15 Andy: That's true. 51:16 Well, if you want to get in touch with Andy and Naomi 51:20 or the West Salem Mission, 51:22 or if you'd like to get this information on the book, 51:26 here is how you can get in touch with them. 51:28 Music... 51:32 If you would like to support the West Salem Mission 51:34 and their efforts to build a multi-purpose building 51:37 that will serve as their church and a Community Training Center, 51:40 you may do so in a variety of ways, 51:42 you may e-mail them at WestSalemMission@gmail. com 51:47 or call them at 567-334-1080 51:52 if you would like to write, please address your letter to: 51:56 West Salem Mission P.O. Box 626 51:59 West Salem, Ohio 44287 52:02 and please ask the Holy Spirit what He would have you do. 52:06 music... |
Revised 2018-06-06