I want to spend my life
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mending broken people,
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I want to spend my life
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removing pain...
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Lord, let my words...
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heal a heart that hurts,
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I want to spend my life
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mending broken people...
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I want to spend my life
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mending broken people.
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Music...
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more music...
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Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and we welcome
you to 3ABN today.
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We just want to thank you
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for sharing some
of your time with us,
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this is going to
be an exciting hour.
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We have a fascinating...
some fascinating testimonies
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and stories of
how the Lord works
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when you are a seeker of truth.
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And we want to
thank you for your prayers
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and for your love
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and for your
financial support of 3ABN,
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we couldn't do
what we do without you.
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I wanted to start
with a Scripture from Mark
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and this is Jesus speaking,
in Mark chapter 7 and verse 8
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He says, "For laying
aside the commandment of God,
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you hold the tradition of man"
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I'm going to
jump down a few verses
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and He finishes by
saying this, "making... "
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this is verse 13...
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"making the word
of God of no effect
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through your tradition
which you have handed down.
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And many such things you do. "
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We have to be so careful
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that what we
believe as Christians
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is coming straight
from the Word of God
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because it is all too easy
to let tradition take precedence
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over what God's
Word actually says,
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and today, we have with us
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some precious
people who I would call,
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"Seekers of the Truth"
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people who
suddenly recognize that
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the tradition of
their Amish religion
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wasn't lining up
with the Word of God...
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and now they are
Seventh-day Adventist Christians
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first, let me introduce my
dear brother, Andy Weaver...
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Andy, so glad to have you here.
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Thanks for having us again.
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Yes, and you've
been here before,
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you are the President
of the West Salem Mission.
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Andy: That is correct.
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And that's in Ohio and
you have permission now
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to take your hat off
so we can see your eyes...
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I wanted to start off with that
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but we're going to come
back and talk about that Mission
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a little later in the Program
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and then, next to you is your
beautiful wife, Naomi Weaver,
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Hi Naomi...
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and our precious and
gorgeous baby girl, Sarah,
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she is so cute, say, "Hi" Sarah,
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can you wave?
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She says, "Well,
I'll look at myself on TV"
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and then we have Delilah Glick
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and Delilah, you
have Eli with you,
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both Eli and Sarah are two...
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and then her husband, John Glick
is sitting up on the other row,
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John, great to
have you here with us,
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and then we have Abe
Raber, did I say it right?
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Yes.
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Good, Abe, we're so glad
that you've come with us,
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now, you come from a...
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you're coming out
of an Amish background
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but obviously, a more
liberal Amish Denomination.
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That's correct.
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Correct... because
you don't have the beard
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and you've got the
English haircut... so...
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Yeah.
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All right... this is just...
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I want to...
with your permission
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I'm going to
hold off on the music
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till the end of the Program
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because we've got
such a fascinating...
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so many fascinating
things to talk about today
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and I just want to
start Naomi and Andy with you.
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You... how many generations...
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has your family
always been Amish?
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Yes, always been Amish.
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Always been Amish...
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Yes.
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You love the Amish lifestyle.
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Oh yeah, I love
the Amish lifestyle.
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But something
happened to you a few years ago
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tell us what was
going on in your heart
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when you were
feeling a little empty.
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Well, like I
said, I grew up Amish,
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I was part of the
Swartzentruber Amish Church
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and ironically the
Swartzentruber Amish
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were more or less founded
by my great-grandfather...
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my mother was a
Swartzentruber Amish
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and so, I was... I was
Amish... I mean, all the way
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and I liked it...
but... I loved the Lord,
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I really wanted
to do what was right
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and my... my apple
cart was kind of upset
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when I read a book...
it's called the: Martyrs Mirror
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and it is like a
compilation of Anabaptist people
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that had died for their faith.
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Okay, Anabaptists...
explain that please.
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Anabaptist... those were...
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they were part
of the Reformation
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back in the 15s and 1600s
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even though they
didn't consider themselves
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Protestants because
they didn't protest.
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Shelley: Okay.
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But they were part of
the Menno Simons group
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and... yeah I read the...
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some of the accounts of people
that had died for their faith
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and I thought, "I
want what they had"
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but...
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Shelley: That kind of
commitment... dedication...
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Andy: Yes,
commitment, dedication
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and I was very
committed... very dedicated...
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but as I read there...
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I felt like I was committed
and dedicated to people
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and I... I want to be committed
and dedicated to people
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that are strictly
following the Lord
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but I can't... I felt... I
just felt like I was perhaps
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on the wrong side
of some of the issues
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because I would
watch debates that went on
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between Anabaptists and Monks
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and those
debates went on for hours
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and they were
smacking my face...
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I thought these people
were... that we admired so much
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they don't believe
what we believe now
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they... they... they believed
in righteousness by faith
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and we didn't... well, we
didn't even know what that was
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and so, the one Scripture
I remember very well...
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I wish I knew
specifically what it was...
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where you read it,
but it's in Jeremiah
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where it says, "Accursed is
the man that relies on man. "
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Shelley: Yes.
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And I... I went to my
Bible and I looked that up
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and I thought...
"that is disturbing"
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because that is what we
always were taught to do,
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we just do what
the Bishop tells you
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and nothing against Bishops...
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I mean, I
love... I love my people,
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I consider myself one of them,
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but I thought, "I still
have to know what I believe,
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I don't even
know what I believe. "
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So, as I understand
it... well, I'm going to...
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a little spoiler alert here...
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Andy has written a book
that's just a marvelous book
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and I told him... "I don't... "
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as hectic as our
schedules are here,
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I rarely have
time to read a book
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before I interview
somebody who's written a book
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but I was reading
your book and I was amazed
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because I think I
thought the Amish...
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you think of them as
being good, strong, moral people
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and I thought that they
probably followed the Bible
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more than they do,
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but the tradition of
the Amish is basically...
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can I say this?
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And I hope it
isn't too derogatory...
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but some things that are
happening in the Amish churches
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seem more like Catholicism to me
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because you're following
what's handed down to you
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no matter what the
Scripture says, is that right?
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That is true.
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Okay, so, you have a Bishop
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and the rules and
regulations, Naomi,
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it was even to how
many stitches you could have
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or what kind of top
stitching on your clothing...
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everything is... basically
you're told what to do.
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Naomi: Yes.
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That's... see..
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to somebody outside that
Community... it's amazing!
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So, what happened as
you are beginning to realize
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how... how... because it's
really not something that...
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you're not recommended
to study the Word a lot.
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No... we are... we are
encouraged to read the Bible
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every Sunday or
every other Sunday...
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we were not encouraged to
read the Bible during the week
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because we were taught...
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if you start
reading the Bible too much,
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you will fall away from God
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and... because falling away...
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leaving the church is...
equals falling away from God
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I mean, that's... and
so, that was my circle,
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now, there is Amish...
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there is a lot of
Amish people out there today
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that are very spiritual... and
they read their Bibles every day
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and they have
their devotion time
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and so, I can't
speak for those people
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because, I mean...
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there is a lot of God-loving
Amish people out there.
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Shelley: Yes.
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We have good moral standards
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and we... we had
good moral standards
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but we... we were just
spiritually dead in so many ways
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it's so formal...
I guess, I would say.
00:09:39.77\00:09:41.81
So, let's just fast forward
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because we have a lot to talk
about with a lot of people today
00:09:43.45\00:09:45.58
how did God wake
you up to His truths
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and to recognize
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the Ten Commandments
weren't nailed to the cross
00:09:53.42\00:09:55.32
and righteousness by faith...
00:09:55.36\00:09:57.76
how did He wake you up
to the everlasting gospel?
00:09:57.79\00:09:59.86
Well, I always... we always
believed in the Ten Commandments
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because we had
memorized them in school
00:10:04.00\00:10:06.03
and so, we were taught
00:10:06.07\00:10:07.50
that the Ten
Commandments were still binding
00:10:07.54\00:10:11.61
but it goes back to
that book I was reading,
00:10:11.64\00:10:15.68
the Martyrs
Mirror it's called...
00:10:15.71\00:10:17.21
it's like Fox's Book of Martyrs.
00:10:17.25\00:10:18.58
Shelley: Okay.
00:10:18.61\00:10:19.95
That's where I learned
about righteousness by faith.
00:10:19.98\00:10:21.92
Even though there
were... they were contradictive
00:10:21.95\00:10:24.25
because those people were
coming out of great darkness
00:10:24.29\00:10:26.55
into light,
00:10:26.59\00:10:27.92
they didn't all agree on...
you know, amongst themselves,
00:10:27.96\00:10:30.63
Um, I could still
learn a whole lot,
00:10:30.66\00:10:34.90
I started realizing
that I can be right with God
00:10:34.96\00:10:39.63
and still have struggles
in my life... and it's not...
00:10:39.67\00:10:42.50
you know, God says,
00:10:42.54\00:10:43.87
"Be ye perfect
even as I am perfect"
00:10:43.91\00:10:45.81
but it doesn't start
there, it starts by a surrender
00:10:45.84\00:10:50.28
and then...
00:10:50.35\00:10:51.71
Shelley: So we
will ever be perfect...
00:10:51.75\00:10:53.58
He's living His life out in us.
00:10:53.62\00:10:55.78
So, I realize that I can
accept Jesus as my Savior
00:10:55.82\00:10:58.65
and then I have
His righteousness
00:10:58.69\00:11:02.12
and... thus, I am perfect.
00:11:02.19\00:11:04.23
Shelley: Amen.
00:11:04.26\00:11:05.59
As long as I remain surrendered
00:11:05.63\00:11:07.90
and this has become by far,
00:11:07.93\00:11:10.20
my most favorite
topic of the Bible,
00:11:10.23\00:11:13.64
there's a lot of great things
in the Bible... like prophecy...
00:11:13.67\00:11:18.24
I love prophecy... but what does
prophecy do for me if I'm lost?
00:11:18.27\00:11:22.81
Shelley: Absolutely.
00:11:22.84\00:11:24.18
Andy: People need Jesus
00:11:24.21\00:11:25.58
and people need to learn how we
can remain surrendered to Jesus
00:11:25.61\00:11:31.92
and that will
transform our life.
00:11:31.95\00:11:33.76
You want to talk
about good works,
00:11:33.82\00:11:35.56
surrender your life to Jesus,
and believe that you're forgiven
00:11:35.59\00:11:38.73
God will take you
on an amazing journey
00:11:38.76\00:11:41.56
and some of the
things that you used to say,
00:11:41.60\00:11:44.33
they just don't
come out any more,
00:11:44.37\00:11:46.53
it's like... you
look back and say,
00:11:46.57\00:11:48.40
"What has God
wrought, I don't know... "
00:11:48.44\00:11:51.17
like Jesus said, you
plant a seed and it grows
00:11:51.21\00:11:53.54
and you know not
how what happened
00:11:53.58\00:11:55.64
and that was my experience.
00:11:55.68\00:11:57.01
It's not that I was good...
it's just God... God is awesome.
00:11:57.05\00:12:01.02
God is awesome... so
you're getting right with God
00:12:01.05\00:12:05.02
but it is putting you in
a... a really difficult place
00:12:05.05\00:12:09.26
with your Amish Bishop
and with the Amish religion
00:12:09.32\00:12:13.46
we're going to just fast forward
00:12:13.50\00:12:16.77
you ended up being "shunned"
and tell us what shunning is.
00:12:16.80\00:12:20.54
Well, shunning is a form
of... it's excommunication...
00:12:20.60\00:12:24.31
where you lose your
connection with your family
00:12:24.34\00:12:27.94
and your... you're not
part of your community any more
00:12:27.98\00:12:30.75
and so, you can't do any
business with your community,
00:12:30.78\00:12:33.31
I mean, I could still talk
to my family and my friends
00:12:33.35\00:12:35.82
but it has changed
drastically and ironically,
00:12:35.85\00:12:38.92
I was shunned
because I told my Leaders,
00:12:38.95\00:12:42.22
I said, "I don't
read in the Bible
00:12:42.26\00:12:43.63
where we are to shun people
00:12:43.69\00:12:45.39
just because they want to
go to church somewhere else"
00:12:45.46\00:12:48.60
and they said, "Well, if
you don't believe in shunning,
00:12:48.63\00:12:51.73
then we're going
to have to shun you"
00:12:51.77\00:12:53.10
and I said, "Well,
you do what you got to do,
00:12:53.13\00:12:56.04
I got to have a
clear conscience"
00:12:56.07\00:12:58.34
and so, to answer your question,
00:12:58.37\00:13:00.48
"What is shunning?"
00:13:00.51\00:13:01.88
It's excommunication.
00:13:01.91\00:13:03.85
Okay, all right, so...
00:13:03.91\00:13:05.78
Naomi, you have a man
here who is seeking the truth,
00:13:05.81\00:13:09.52
your sweet husband...
father of your eight children
00:13:09.55\00:13:13.22
it's a quiver full...
00:13:13.25\00:13:15.09
I always tease you
all at ASI about that,
00:13:15.12\00:13:17.43
but what was it like for you?
00:13:17.46\00:13:19.96
I mean, your
mother was living with you
00:13:20.00\00:13:21.50
you all were living
on the family farm...
00:13:21.53\00:13:24.10
buying it from your mother
00:13:24.17\00:13:25.53
what was it like
for you as this decision
00:13:25.57\00:13:29.60
was about to be made
00:13:29.64\00:13:31.11
that I know you all
wrestled with this quite a bit
00:13:31.17\00:13:33.94
before the shunning...
00:13:33.98\00:13:35.58
how did you feel...
00:13:35.61\00:13:36.95
did you feel like the
earth was just opening up...
00:13:36.98\00:13:39.38
about to swallow you?
00:13:39.41\00:13:40.82
Yes, it was very hard...
00:13:40.85\00:13:42.22
I felt like...
I'm losing everything
00:13:42.25\00:13:44.02
and the hardest part was
probably to see that I...
00:13:44.05\00:13:48.22
I can't help my mom anymore
00:13:48.26\00:13:50.96
and that she's
not going to accept me
00:13:50.99\00:13:54.06
but after I
decided to let God lead me
00:13:54.10\00:13:57.10
and just lean on Him,
things went much better.
00:13:57.13\00:14:00.24
You know, I was telling someone
00:14:00.27\00:14:02.24
this morning, as
a matter of fact...
00:14:02.27\00:14:04.91
sometimes we think we've
made a sacrifice for the Lord
00:14:04.94\00:14:08.64
and a sacrifice for the truth
00:14:08.71\00:14:11.08
but I don't know that...
00:14:11.11\00:14:13.45
many of us have not experienced
what you all have been through
00:14:13.48\00:14:17.89
but God has so blessed you since
00:14:17.92\00:14:21.82
and you have an
Adventist Christian family now
00:14:21.86\00:14:25.59
that has accepted you...
00:14:25.63\00:14:28.16
you are both baptized
into the Adventist Church
00:14:28.20\00:14:30.70
and we want to get to
everybody else's story
00:14:30.73\00:14:33.70
so, kind of tell us
about West Salem Mission...
00:14:33.74\00:14:36.67
when... when you came out
00:14:36.71\00:14:38.57
and suddenly you've
got no church family
00:14:38.61\00:14:40.98
because you've been cut
off from family and friends
00:14:41.01\00:14:43.65
and your income...
everything is changing...
00:14:43.68\00:14:47.02
but God put it in your heart
to minister to these people.
00:14:47.05\00:14:51.72
That's true... I was always...
00:14:51.75\00:14:54.52
I had a lot of
interest in spiritual things
00:14:54.56\00:14:57.96
and I was just... I
was just studying religion
00:14:57.99\00:15:01.30
so, I went to... I got all
kinds of Christian literature
00:15:01.33\00:15:06.33
and it was when I came across
00:15:06.37\00:15:08.94
some Bible
prophecy books and stuff
00:15:08.97\00:15:12.97
that I... I started
realizing that we are all...
00:15:13.01\00:15:17.21
we're at the end
of time and we are...
00:15:17.25\00:15:19.25
we are all part
of Bible Prophecy,
00:15:19.28\00:15:21.25
we are either on the negative
side or on the positive side
00:15:21.28\00:15:24.09
and so I just
had to narrow down,
00:15:24.12\00:15:25.99
the Lord helped
me find the truth
00:15:26.02\00:15:27.86
and I just...
00:15:27.89\00:15:29.62
and I realized that
some of the Anabaptist people
00:15:29.66\00:15:33.06
were Sabbath keepers...
00:15:33.09\00:15:34.70
I really like the idea...
00:15:34.73\00:15:36.26
if you want to talk
about preaching the faith
00:15:36.30\00:15:38.33
and living the faith
that was once delivered
00:15:38.37\00:15:40.40
unto the saints,
like it says in Jude,
00:15:40.44\00:15:42.04
I thought, "Well, it doesn't...
00:15:42.07\00:15:44.21
we don't read about
the nine Commandments
00:15:44.24\00:15:46.04
there's 10 Commandments
00:15:46.07\00:15:47.41
and I knew I had the Lord
00:15:47.44\00:15:48.78
but I really wanted to
keep all of His Commandments
00:15:48.81\00:15:52.55
because I love the
Lord and... and so...
00:15:52.58\00:15:55.18
yeah, it became...
it became very clear
00:15:55.22\00:15:57.82
after reading the
book of Revelation,
00:15:57.85\00:16:00.82
all the prophecies
on end-time Movement,
00:16:00.86\00:16:03.73
it became very obvious to me
what the direction we are going.
00:16:03.79\00:16:06.56
So, this is what
the new... you began...
00:16:06.59\00:16:09.33
in the book... he talks about
00:16:09.36\00:16:11.90
going to the Adventist
Church for the first time
00:16:11.93\00:16:14.34
and looking around and thinking,
"these are my people... "
00:16:14.37\00:16:17.84
because of the
way they were dressed,
00:16:17.87\00:16:19.37
I thought... that made me laugh
00:16:19.41\00:16:20.74
but this is what
then... started you...
00:16:20.78\00:16:24.81
your desire to reach the
Amish is why you began...
00:16:24.85\00:16:28.95
tell us what the
West Salem Mission is.
00:16:28.98\00:16:32.45
Well, the West
Salem Mission is...
00:16:32.49\00:16:34.52
I guess we consider it like
00:16:34.56\00:16:36.29
an Amish Mennonite
Sabbatarian Movement
00:16:36.32\00:16:39.69
that is within the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
00:16:39.73\00:16:41.66
Shelley: Okay.
00:16:41.70\00:16:43.03
And we realized
as we studied that...
00:16:43.06\00:16:47.94
this is a message that is...
00:16:47.97\00:16:49.30
is in harmony with a lot of the
things that the Amish believe
00:16:49.34\00:16:52.61
as far as agriculture
and living in the country
00:16:52.64\00:16:56.71
and we... we thought "Well,
we're sitting on a gold mine"
00:16:56.75\00:17:01.98
we have common
things like education
00:17:02.05\00:17:04.39
and evangelism...
all these things...
00:17:04.42\00:17:06.69
and the Amish would
benefit greatly from this
00:17:06.72\00:17:10.83
and so, our goal is to
help the Amish see that,
00:17:10.89\00:17:14.96
you know,
00:17:15.00\00:17:16.40
well, first off, there's
nothing wrong with being Amish
00:17:16.43\00:17:18.83
or the Amish lifestyle
00:17:18.90\00:17:20.34
it's just... our
faith has to be in God.
00:17:20.37\00:17:23.07
Shelley: Amen.
00:17:23.10\00:17:24.44
And if our faith
is really in God,
00:17:24.47\00:17:25.81
then, our faith is in His
Word because Jesus is the Word
00:17:25.84\00:17:28.78
and... and so... it
is our goal to help...
00:17:28.81\00:17:32.65
help a lot of the confusion
00:17:32.68\00:17:35.65
and just unhappiness
that is in our people.
00:17:35.68\00:17:38.75
Okay, this started...
00:17:38.82\00:17:40.46
the West Salem
Mission started in 2015
00:17:40.49\00:17:42.56
and you brought
some pictures to show us,
00:17:42.59\00:17:45.09
you are building
the Community Center
00:17:45.13\00:17:47.33
and it is going
to be the church,
00:17:47.36\00:17:49.36
Community
Center... Training Center.
00:17:49.40\00:17:51.37
Andy: Yes, that's correct.
00:17:51.40\00:17:53.10
Shelley: And is this...
00:17:53.13\00:17:54.74
all... everybody is
building it together?
00:17:54.80\00:17:57.01
Andy: Yes, yeah, we...
we were used to barn raising
00:17:57.04\00:18:01.31
and Work Bees and
that kind of stuff
00:18:01.34\00:18:02.84
so, it will be built...
we'll have a church raising
00:18:02.88\00:18:08.18
and one of our new converts,
he's actually in the...
00:18:08.22\00:18:11.79
he's the Leader of the
building project but... yeah.
00:18:11.82\00:18:15.36
Okay, and that
precious circle of children
00:18:15.39\00:18:17.73
that's just having a good
time in your backyard, isn't it.
00:18:17.76\00:18:21.50
Andy: Our hayfield.
Shelley: In your hayfield...
00:18:21.53\00:18:23.26
Andy: Yes.
00:18:23.30\00:18:24.63
All right now, this
is the Sabbath School...
00:18:24.67\00:18:26.57
and Naomi you told
me that the little girls
00:18:26.63\00:18:28.70
till they're two wear their...
00:18:28.74\00:18:30.07
or they always wear their white
caps to church, is that correct?
00:18:30.11\00:18:32.71
Naomi: No, up until
two they do always white...
00:18:32.77\00:18:35.81
Shelley: Okay.
00:18:35.84\00:18:37.18
Naomi: But from there up...
they always wear black to church
00:18:37.21\00:18:39.51
but since we're not a
member of the Amish church...
00:18:39.55\00:18:42.42
Shelley: It doesn't matter.
00:18:42.45\00:18:43.79
Naomi: No, it doesn't
matter, we do whatever we want.
00:18:43.82\00:18:45.25
Shelley: So, you're not
worried about those traditions
00:18:45.29\00:18:46.92
so much anymore.
00:18:46.96\00:18:48.29
Naomi: No.
00:18:48.32\00:18:49.66
You know, with my
naturally curly hair,
00:18:49.69\00:18:51.03
everybody always
thinks I wear a wig...
00:18:51.06\00:18:53.19
I mean, I get...
I get that so often
00:18:53.23\00:18:55.43
they think...
people think I wear a wig,
00:18:55.46\00:18:57.07
I need to just
borrow a bonnet...
00:18:57.10\00:18:58.93
I mean, that would
really help me a lot.
00:18:59.00\00:19:02.47
So, now, we've got a
few more pictures I think
00:19:02.50\00:19:07.01
this is the church group.
00:19:07.04\00:19:09.28
Andy: The church group, yes.
00:19:09.31\00:19:11.31
Shelley: God is blessing.
00:19:11.35\00:19:13.31
Andy: Yes, it
exploded in the last year
00:19:13.35\00:19:15.45
and we have... we have
more interest outside of Ohio
00:19:15.48\00:19:18.99
so there are a lot of
people in the Amish churches
00:19:19.02\00:19:22.46
and some of the Mennonites too
00:19:22.49\00:19:23.83
that are under
conviction of the Sabbath.
00:19:23.86\00:19:25.96
Shelley: Praise the Lord.
00:19:25.99\00:19:27.33
Andy: These are
people that love the Lord
00:19:27.36\00:19:28.70
and they say, "Why don't
we keep the Creation Sabbath?"
00:19:28.73\00:19:30.50
I mean, that was not a
shadow of things to come...
00:19:30.53\00:19:32.13
that was a memorial of the past.
00:19:32.17\00:19:33.50
Shelley: Right.
00:19:33.54\00:19:34.87
Andy: And so... yeah, there's
a lot of conviction out there
00:19:34.90\00:19:38.14
and so... the Lord
is bringing them in
00:19:38.17\00:19:39.81
as fast as we know
what to do with them...
00:19:39.87\00:19:41.21
that is just a reality.
00:19:41.24\00:19:42.58
Shelley: Glory
to God. Andy: Yeah.
00:19:42.61\00:19:44.01
So, you're baptized members of
the Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:19:44.05\00:19:47.38
now we've got the Glicks with us
00:19:47.42\00:19:49.58
and John, tell us a
little of your experience
00:19:49.62\00:19:54.19
and how God is calling you out
of that darkness into His light.
00:19:54.22\00:19:57.76
Hmmm... yeah...
00:19:57.79\00:20:00.00
pause...
00:20:00.03\00:20:01.43
I guess, we were having
just a lot of persecution
00:20:01.46\00:20:06.63
among the church from
things... different things...
00:20:06.67\00:20:11.77
Shelley: When you say, "We"
you and Delilah were like...?
00:20:11.81\00:20:16.11
John: Actually, mostly me,
she was very little in that
00:20:16.14\00:20:20.42
and for a while I
thought, you know,
00:20:20.45\00:20:23.18
it might be that I didn't want
to read the Bible that she...
00:20:23.22\00:20:26.69
I didn't want her to
know where I'm going with it
00:20:26.72\00:20:29.79
because I was
afraid she won't follow it,
00:20:29.82\00:20:31.99
I expected that
she wouldn't follow
00:20:32.03\00:20:35.46
and I didn't expect
the right thing from God
00:20:35.50\00:20:37.80
but with... I didn't do anything
that brought her to go with me,
00:20:37.83\00:20:44.17
it was... it was all God...
00:20:44.21\00:20:46.04
Shelley: Praise God.
00:20:46.07\00:20:47.58
Yes, when I...
00:20:47.61\00:20:49.51
when I... I
got... I went to church
00:20:49.54\00:20:54.35
and they told us that I
had to be excommunicated
00:20:54.38\00:20:57.59
for a few things I
had been doing, so...
00:20:57.62\00:21:00.46
Shelley: Can you kind of
give us what... I mean...
00:21:00.49\00:21:03.06
were you going to the bar
in your buggy or... were you...
00:21:03.09\00:21:05.66
I was... I was using power tools
00:21:05.69\00:21:08.60
and I was... I
drove a Skid Steer...
00:21:08.66\00:21:11.50
they knew about the power tools
00:21:11.53\00:21:14.34
but they didn't know
about the Skid Steer...
00:21:14.37\00:21:15.97
and the reason I
drove the Skid Steer
00:21:16.00\00:21:18.61
was to help a person...
00:21:18.64\00:21:20.64
and the power
tools were not doing it,
00:21:20.68\00:21:23.21
just to rebel against the
church I loved my church...
00:21:23.24\00:21:27.55
I had no intention
of leaving my church
00:21:27.58\00:21:30.69
even at this point...
00:21:30.75\00:21:32.32
but when they told me
that I had to go home,
00:21:32.35\00:21:34.99
I went into a
total rebellious stage
00:21:35.02\00:21:40.23
and I... I had really...
I had suicidal thoughts
00:21:40.30\00:21:47.54
so, I read the Bible
and I just went home.
00:21:47.60\00:21:50.71
Shelley: Can I
pause there for a second
00:21:50.74\00:21:53.74
because I just want to
say, I don't think any of us...
00:21:53.78\00:21:56.14
unless we were part
of that community...
00:21:56.18\00:21:58.98
if you can imagine
being excommunicated
00:21:59.01\00:22:01.75
where you're suddenly
separated from family...
00:22:01.78\00:22:04.65
that got very reduced
interaction with family members
00:22:04.69\00:22:08.56
from your
church... and you all are...
00:22:08.59\00:22:11.29
you work so much together
00:22:11.33\00:22:13.09
kind of an agricultural
culturing community...
00:22:13.13\00:22:16.77
and suddenly...
it is just like...
00:22:16.80\00:22:19.57
the rug's been
pulled out from under you
00:22:19.63\00:22:21.97
I can understand how you
would get into a dark place.
00:22:22.00\00:22:24.77
So, the verse that
really got me thinking
00:22:24.81\00:22:27.84
to commit suicide was...
00:22:27.88\00:22:30.35
when they told me that my...
my... one of my Ministers...
00:22:30.38\00:22:34.08
it was like
four... four Ministers,
00:22:34.12\00:22:36.65
a Deacon and a Bishop
standing in front of me,
00:22:36.69\00:22:40.36
one of them popped up
because I willfully sinned
00:22:40.42\00:22:44.03
and they called a sin...
"transgression of their rules"
00:22:44.06\00:22:46.96
because I willfully
drove the Skid Steer
00:22:47.00\00:22:49.73
and did not confess myself...
00:22:49.76\00:22:52.43
that they had to get it
from some other people...
00:22:52.47\00:22:54.90
that that would
be "willfully sinned"
00:22:54.94\00:22:58.14
and, therefore,
there's no more remission...
00:22:58.17\00:23:00.98
there's no more
sacrifice for your sin...
00:23:01.01\00:23:03.55
so that pointed me...
00:23:03.58\00:23:05.95
Shelley: So you thought
you were lost for eternity?
00:23:05.98\00:23:07.32
John: I thought I
was lost for eternity
00:23:07.35\00:23:08.68
and I felt like that...
I felt totally condemned.
00:23:08.72\00:23:10.59
I thought I was a total sinner
00:23:10.62\00:23:13.49
and I'm... I was a
sinner but... I still am...
00:23:13.52\00:23:16.26
so...
00:23:16.29\00:23:17.73
but because I had to go home
and was just... I was there...
00:23:17.76\00:23:22.66
I picked the kids
up on my way home...
00:23:22.70\00:23:24.70
Shelley: And you have how many?
00:23:24.73\00:23:26.43
John: I have eight...
or... I mean... six...
00:23:26.47\00:23:30.37
Shelley: You'd
better tell Delilah
00:23:30.41\00:23:32.24
about these other two
that you just claimed.
00:23:32.27\00:23:34.34
John: I guess I was
listening to them...
00:23:34.38\00:23:36.48
Shelley: You have
six. John: So six...
00:23:36.51\00:23:38.55
at that time we had five...
00:23:38.58\00:23:41.78
Shelley: Okay.
00:23:41.85\00:23:43.22
John: And so I picked
the kids up at the neighbor's
00:23:43.25\00:23:45.52
because it was
Council meeting...
00:23:45.55\00:23:47.39
the church that we went to
was Council meeting that time
00:23:47.42\00:23:50.03
the kids don't go with us
00:23:50.06\00:23:51.39
so I picked up the
kids and I went home
00:23:51.43\00:23:53.26
and I still don't know
why I picked the kids up
00:23:53.29\00:23:56.03
because that was not my plan...
00:23:56.06\00:23:57.87
when I came to the
neighbor's where the kids were,
00:23:57.90\00:24:00.44
I turned in...
00:24:00.47\00:24:01.97
and I went in and the kids
asked me, "Why are you here?"
00:24:02.00\00:24:05.24
Well, it was... I was in
my darkest moment of my life
00:24:05.27\00:24:08.98
and I said just,
"Don't ask me questions,
00:24:09.01\00:24:11.41
I'm here to pick you up. "
00:24:11.45\00:24:12.78
So, the neighbor girl helped
to get everything together
00:24:12.81\00:24:16.12
and we went home...
00:24:16.15\00:24:17.49
I had hitched the horse...
we went into the house...
00:24:17.52\00:24:20.72
and that part of my life
I can't remember everything
00:24:20.76\00:24:24.09
because I was... it
was just so dark for me...
00:24:24.13\00:24:26.39
so, anyways I sat down...
started reading the Bible...
00:24:26.43\00:24:30.93
I finally said,
"Surely, if I do commit suicide,
00:24:30.97\00:24:35.20
surely God will
give me the answer...
00:24:35.24\00:24:38.04
maybe there's that
little slight hope...
00:24:38.07\00:24:40.08
even if He gives me that
right to commit suicide...
00:24:40.11\00:24:43.88
if God will
give me that right...
00:24:43.91\00:24:46.01
I would... maybe have a little
chance to get in the kingdom. "
00:24:46.05\00:24:50.79
And so, I started
reading the Bible...
00:24:50.82\00:24:53.89
and I started with
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...
00:24:53.92\00:24:57.79
that's where I was...
00:24:57.86\00:24:59.19
I was not an Old Testament
believer at all at that time,
00:24:59.23\00:25:01.80
and I found so many promises,
00:25:01.83\00:25:06.97
God told me something but
He told me totally different
00:25:07.00\00:25:10.21
from what I was looking for,
00:25:10.24\00:25:12.21
and the kids came at lunch time
00:25:12.24\00:25:14.08
and they said, "I'm hungry"
00:25:14.11\00:25:15.84
I said, "Kids, I'm...
I'm... I don't have time"
00:25:15.88\00:25:20.02
I said, "Just go
out in the pantry
00:25:20.05\00:25:21.38
and find something to eat. "
00:25:21.42\00:25:22.75
So, pretty soon,
they came back again,
00:25:22.78\00:25:25.05
they said, "Dad,
we're really hungry"
00:25:25.09\00:25:27.42
I said, "I don't care,
just go out and find something,
00:25:27.46\00:25:29.96
just... I don't care what you do
with the kitchen or the pantry
00:25:30.03\00:25:33.09
just do anything you
have to... leave me alone. "
00:25:33.13\00:25:36.56
Because they were
almost to lose their dad...
00:25:36.63\00:25:40.00
that's... I mean... that
was... now I think back...
00:25:40.04\00:25:42.47
that was the best
thing I could have ever done,
00:25:42.50\00:25:44.94
so I...
00:25:44.97\00:25:46.94
Shelley: Reading the Bible
was the best thing you did...
00:25:46.98\00:25:48.81
Yeah, reading the
Bible is the best thing...
00:25:48.84\00:25:50.78
and not... just
neglecting my kids at that time
00:25:50.81\00:25:52.71
because I was almost
going to neglect them for life.
00:25:52.75\00:25:55.75
So, I just... so
whatever they did to the pantry
00:25:55.78\00:25:58.45
I don't know... but
they quit bugging me,
00:25:58.49\00:26:01.66
I read the Bible from... I
came home around 10 o'clock,
00:26:01.69\00:26:04.79
and six o'clock that night,
00:26:04.83\00:26:06.56
my wife came
home with her parents.
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.13
Shelley: Wow!
00:26:08.16\00:26:09.50
John: And by that, my
life was still very dark
00:26:09.53\00:26:13.03
but it had changed 80 percent,
00:26:13.07\00:26:17.11
my wife comes in
just crying her eyes out
00:26:17.14\00:26:20.78
because her parents
just brought her home
00:26:20.81\00:26:24.38
and they had things to say
that she didn't like to hear
00:26:24.41\00:26:27.85
and she said, "I
don't know what life has...
00:26:27.88\00:26:30.89
I don't know why I'm here. "
00:26:30.92\00:26:32.42
I said, "Guess
what? I found something. "
00:26:32.45\00:26:34.66
She said, "You didn't
read the Bible did you?"
00:26:34.69\00:26:36.86
I said, "Yes, I did. "
00:26:36.89\00:26:38.76
She said, "I was afraid
you were going to do that. "
00:26:38.79\00:26:41.40
Laughter...
00:26:41.43\00:26:43.30
So, that was the
beginning of all this
00:26:43.37\00:26:46.27
and then it just...
it just kind of led on
00:26:46.30\00:26:48.20
into... we...
00:26:48.24\00:26:51.34
I was
excommunicated for six weeks
00:26:51.37\00:26:53.94
and then... in
that six weeks' time,
00:26:53.98\00:26:56.54
well, two weeks into it,
00:26:56.58\00:26:58.18
my wife wanted to
get excommunicated,
00:26:58.21\00:27:00.02
we went to the
Bishop and... and he said,
00:27:00.05\00:27:02.38
"Oh, that would make my
'shunning part' way too easy"
00:27:02.42\00:27:05.82
because, if a husband is shunned
among the Swartzentruber Amish,
00:27:05.85\00:27:09.26
there is no relationship...
00:27:09.29\00:27:11.16
I can't eat with
her... I can't... I can't...
00:27:11.19\00:27:13.76
yes, I can't... she can't
take anything from my hand...
00:27:13.80\00:27:17.57
there's been times
when they told them
00:27:17.60\00:27:19.60
they can't even
sleep in the same bed.
00:27:19.63\00:27:21.40
Shelley: Wow!
00:27:21.44\00:27:22.77
John: For us it wasn't like that
00:27:22.80\00:27:24.14
but I know of people
that... that was forced
00:27:24.17\00:27:27.28
so, yeah, she... she couldn't...
00:27:27.31\00:27:31.11
but on the way home,
after we met the Bishop,
00:27:31.15\00:27:34.25
she said, "Guess
what? Shunning is over...
00:27:34.28\00:27:37.32
we're going home... we're
going to pull the curtains
00:27:37.35\00:27:40.09
we're going to lock the doors
and I'm going to eat with you,
00:27:40.12\00:27:42.69
we're going to
be a married couple,
00:27:42.72\00:27:44.06
like we were for six years. "
00:27:44.09\00:27:48.00
and I was like, "I love you"
00:27:48.03\00:27:51.90
but I said, "You know I'm
not pushing you into this,
00:27:51.93\00:27:53.90
this is your choice"
00:27:53.94\00:27:55.37
I said, "I'm not trying
to get you in trouble...
00:27:55.40\00:27:57.64
I got in trouble
by the church... "
00:27:57.67\00:27:59.37
and I said,
"that is your choice. "
00:27:59.41\00:28:01.01
And she said, "That is my choice
and that's what I would do. "
00:28:01.04\00:28:04.48
So, that's what we did
for the next four weeks,
00:28:04.51\00:28:07.62
we pulled the curtains
00:28:07.65\00:28:08.98
and locked the doors
when we wanted to eat
00:28:09.02\00:28:11.92
so nobody would walk in
00:28:11.95\00:28:14.22
because the Amish...
they don't knock on the door,
00:28:14.26\00:28:15.96
if they come in your
house, they walk right in.
00:28:16.02\00:28:17.69
So, that was the
reason we locked the door
00:28:17.73\00:28:21.66
so nobody would walk in on us
00:28:21.70\00:28:23.30
and see us eating together.
00:28:23.33\00:28:24.87
Shelley: Wow!
00:28:24.90\00:28:26.23
And from there, I got taken
back as a member in the church
00:28:26.27\00:28:30.67
six weeks after
00:28:30.71\00:28:32.04
I had to kneel down
in front of the Bishop
00:28:32.07\00:28:36.38
and confess my sins...
00:28:36.41\00:28:38.05
Shelley: And confess your
sins using the Skid Steer.
00:28:38.08\00:28:39.41
John: Yes.
00:28:39.45\00:28:41.18
And I don't mean... you know...
00:28:41.22\00:28:42.55
that sounds so unreasonable...
it is unreasonable...
00:28:42.58\00:28:46.35
I mean, it is
amazing to allow one man
00:28:46.39\00:28:50.03
to have that
much power in my mind,
00:28:50.06\00:28:53.66
that's a very unreasonable thing
00:28:53.70\00:28:55.43
and to connect that...
God is not a controlling God,
00:28:55.46\00:28:59.60
I mean, even like,
we've talked earlier...
00:28:59.63\00:29:02.54
it's an idea of surrender...
you yield control to Him...
00:29:02.57\00:29:06.27
He never takes it from you,
00:29:06.31\00:29:07.98
so it's just...
this... it's amazing
00:29:08.01\00:29:10.38
and if I hadn't
read this book already,
00:29:10.41\00:29:12.68
I'd be shocked... but quickly...
because we're running...
00:29:12.71\00:29:15.48
I don't want to run out
of time before we get to Abe
00:29:15.52\00:29:19.79
and to your story of your book
00:29:19.82\00:29:22.32
but how did you meet this one?
00:29:22.36\00:29:24.79
In the time that I was
shunned that first time...
00:29:24.83\00:29:29.03
in that first six weeks...
00:29:29.06\00:29:30.40
I forget when it
was in those six weeks
00:29:30.43\00:29:32.97
but in those six
weeks, I finally...
00:29:33.00\00:29:35.50
I started
calling ex-Amish people,
00:29:35.54\00:29:37.97
I'm like... because I...
because I was reading the Bible
00:29:38.01\00:29:40.24
and I'd seen
some of the stuff...
00:29:40.28\00:29:41.74
the traditions... is not
lining up with the Bible.
00:29:41.78\00:29:43.75
Shelley: Okay.
00:29:43.78\00:29:45.11
John: And so, I
called his brother-in-law
00:29:45.15\00:29:47.85
and we talked against Andy.
00:29:47.88\00:29:50.55
Shelley: Did you know Andy,
00:29:50.59\00:29:53.19
I mean, you all went to
the same church before...
00:29:53.22\00:29:56.06
John: Kind of... yeah...
00:29:56.09\00:29:58.36
Andy: Different
district... same church.
00:29:58.39\00:30:00.00
Shelley: Okay, same
church... different district...
00:30:00.03\00:30:01.36
so not the same church building.
00:30:01.40\00:30:02.73
John: Yeah. Shelley: Okay.
00:30:02.76\00:30:04.10
John: So, finally I
said, "You know, I'm just... "
00:30:04.13\00:30:06.74
oh, I was... I was
talking to my cousin
00:30:06.77\00:30:09.57
and then she said, "Oh,
you need to talk to Andy"
00:30:09.60\00:30:12.91
and I said, "Yeah, maybe,
but I don't agree with him
00:30:12.97\00:30:16.24
but maybe he would... yeah"
00:30:16.28\00:30:17.91
so she gave me her
number and so, I called him,
00:30:17.95\00:30:22.25
so I called
Naomi and... and I...
00:30:22.28\00:30:24.55
when she picked up, I was like,
00:30:24.59\00:30:26.82
"This is John Glick... "
00:30:26.86\00:30:28.29
they thought I'm
hard-core Amish...
00:30:28.32\00:30:30.26
they didn't know
what I'm going through,
00:30:30.29\00:30:31.63
and...
00:30:31.66\00:30:32.99
But would that be... I mean,
would that be a clue to you,
00:30:33.03\00:30:35.96
he wasn't hard-core Amish
00:30:36.00\00:30:37.33
because he was using
the phone and it wasn't...
00:30:37.37\00:30:39.37
I mean, they
only can use the phone
00:30:39.40\00:30:41.50
if it's a medical
emergency or something...
00:30:41.57\00:30:43.71
because I remember
in your book you said
00:30:43.74\00:30:45.81
that somebody died and
you weren't sure who had died
00:30:45.84\00:30:48.34
but you couldn't
even phone to find out...
00:30:48.48\00:30:50.15
you went to the
funeral not knowing
00:30:50.18\00:30:52.08
which relative had died, right?
00:30:52.11\00:30:53.98
So, that clued you in...
00:30:54.02\00:30:56.18
there's something
going on when he called?
00:30:56.22\00:30:58.02
Andy: Yes, the
fact that he called me
00:30:58.05\00:31:01.19
told me that he
was on his way out
00:31:01.22\00:31:04.33
whether he knows it or not
00:31:04.36\00:31:05.69
and he was talking
about all the Amish traditions
00:31:05.73\00:31:09.40
and I said, "You
know, the Bible says,
00:31:09.43\00:31:11.00
'in vain do they worship me,
00:31:11.03\00:31:12.40
keepin for doctrines
the commandments of men. '"
00:31:12.43\00:31:14.77
And I thought, "Well, but
the verse doesn't stop there"
00:31:14.80\00:31:17.77
and that's what
he wanted to hear,
00:31:17.81\00:31:20.04
but I said, "and
it also says that
00:31:20.08\00:31:22.11
'full well ye reject
the commandment of God,
00:31:22.14\00:31:24.85
that you may keep
your own traditions'"
00:31:24.88\00:31:26.65
and I said, I just
inserted... and I said,
00:31:26.72\00:31:28.38
"that is why I keep the
Sabbath instead of Sunday"
00:31:28.42\00:31:31.62
and so, I planted a seed
00:31:31.65\00:31:33.76
because, you
know, everybody loves...
00:31:33.79\00:31:36.42
if you leave the Amish church,
everybody loves the verse,
00:31:36.46\00:31:39.33
"In vain do they worship me,
00:31:39.36\00:31:40.70
keeping for doctrines
the commandments of men. "
00:31:40.73\00:31:42.30
But, how about
the rest of the story?
00:31:42.33\00:31:44.70
So, before I jump in,
00:31:44.73\00:31:48.57
let's ask you about
the rest of the story,
00:31:48.60\00:31:50.37
you called him,
what did you think about
00:31:50.41\00:31:52.07
when he started
talking about the Sabbath
00:31:52.11\00:31:53.44
and the Old Testament
00:31:53.48\00:31:54.81
since you weren't
an Old Testament...
00:31:54.84\00:31:56.18
I thought he was
totally crazy but I was...
00:31:56.21\00:31:57.71
I was so far in the Bible
00:31:57.75\00:31:59.41
that I was convinced
that whatever the Bible says,
00:31:59.45\00:32:02.48
I... I'm... I am
fully dedicated to believe,
00:32:02.55\00:32:05.52
and so, I remember going
home telling my wife about...
00:32:05.55\00:32:08.66
that he said something this,
00:32:08.72\00:32:10.06
I forgot about that till few
weeks ago... he brought that up
00:32:10.09\00:32:13.23
but I do remember
that a little bit,
00:32:13.26\00:32:14.80
the Sabbath was definitely
not part of me at that time,
00:32:14.83\00:32:19.33
definitely not at all...
00:32:19.37\00:32:20.97
but I just wanted to talk to...
I didn't care who I talked to...
00:32:21.00\00:32:24.61
anything ex-Amish,
anything that believe...
00:32:24.64\00:32:27.51
I mean, there's
ex-Amish that don't really care
00:32:27.58\00:32:30.41
about talking about the Bible,
00:32:30.45\00:32:32.15
they're just out there to...
because they're out there...
00:32:32.18\00:32:35.15
and that doesn't mean that
they'll never come to the truth,
00:32:35.18\00:32:38.12
but I was looking for
00:32:38.15\00:32:39.89
people that want to
talk about the Bible,
00:32:39.92\00:32:41.76
really want to talk about
the New Testament is what I left
00:32:41.82\00:32:46.23
so, I guess that
just kind of led...
00:32:46.26\00:32:50.13
that first phone call
just kind of led into...
00:32:50.17\00:32:52.10
and another thing
that really got us...
00:32:52.13\00:32:54.54
my wife said,
00:32:54.60\00:32:56.10
"There's no way I can leave
this... this lifestyle... "
00:32:56.14\00:33:00.18
I never had a
problem with the lifestyle,
00:33:00.24\00:33:02.88
and since Andy's
were remaining, you know,
00:33:02.91\00:33:05.51
supporting the lifestyle...
it pulled us more towards that,
00:33:05.55\00:33:09.78
so, people, now they might say,
00:33:09.82\00:33:12.65
"Oh, you're
worshipping your clothes"
00:33:12.69\00:33:14.72
that's not the case in me,
00:33:14.76\00:33:16.49
I don't care...
sometimes I wear jeans,
00:33:16.52\00:33:18.56
it's just...
this is part of me...
00:33:18.59\00:33:22.33
this is part of my
life... this lifestyle...
00:33:22.36\00:33:24.83
and I would feel
way out of my place
00:33:24.87\00:33:27.80
not in this
lifestyle for the most part,
00:33:27.84\00:33:30.71
when certain things,
yeah... I'll stop at jeans, so.
00:33:30.74\00:33:36.41
I mean, we're
Texans, we understand...
00:33:36.44\00:33:38.08
when I first came here,
00:33:38.11\00:33:40.62
people said, "You
dress like a cowgirl"
00:33:40.65\00:33:42.52
I said, "I do... " but anyway...
00:33:42.55\00:33:44.45
let me... I wanted to
share something with you
00:33:44.49\00:33:46.45
because I think this
is an important part,
00:33:46.52\00:33:49.62
one Scripture that
the Amish use a whole lot
00:33:49.66\00:33:52.76
to prove their point
00:33:52.79\00:33:54.13
that you should follow
traditions of men over the Bible
00:33:54.16\00:33:59.43
is 2nd Timothy 3:14 that says,
00:33:59.47\00:34:02.70
"But you must continue in things
00:34:02.74\00:34:05.91
which you've
learned and been assured of,
00:34:05.94\00:34:08.41
knowing from whom
you have learned... "
00:34:08.44\00:34:10.85
so as these traditions
are passed down by the bishops
00:34:10.88\00:34:14.62
and there's different traditions
in different districts
00:34:14.65\00:34:18.35
what they're saying here is...
they use this Scripture to say,
00:34:18.39\00:34:23.26
"Now you got to do whatever
we've handed down to you"
00:34:23.29\00:34:27.56
but they're
taking it out of context
00:34:27.60\00:34:29.56
because he goes on,
00:34:29.60\00:34:30.93
and this is Paul
writing to Timothy
00:34:30.97\00:34:33.30
in 2nd Timothy 3 I'm
going to repeat that...
00:34:33.34\00:34:36.54
he says in verse 14...
00:34:36.57\00:34:37.97
"But you must continue in the
things which you have learned
00:34:38.01\00:34:41.11
and been assured of,
00:34:41.14\00:34:42.68
knowing from whom
you have learned them,
00:34:42.71\00:34:46.31
and that from childhood
00:34:46.35\00:34:48.65
you have known
the Holy Scriptures,
00:34:48.68\00:34:51.85
which are able to
make you wise for salvation
00:34:51.89\00:34:54.22
through faith
which is in Christ Jesus"
00:34:54.26\00:34:56.42
and then he goes on and says,
00:34:56.46\00:34:58.09
"All Scripture is
given by inspiration of God,
00:34:58.13\00:35:01.06
is profitable for doctrine,
reproof, for correction,
00:35:01.10\00:35:04.60
for instruction...
for righteousness... "
00:35:04.63\00:35:07.17
so, what he is saying...
the very verse that you...
00:35:07.20\00:35:11.07
any time you pluck a
verse out of context,
00:35:11.11\00:35:13.54
you could twist it to
your own destruction...
00:35:13.58\00:35:16.08
and what Paul is saying
and when he is talking about
00:35:16.11\00:35:18.48
"All Scripture" by-the-way...
00:35:18.51\00:35:19.85
he's talking about
the Old Testament...
00:35:19.88\00:35:21.65
because they didn't have
the New Testament back then
00:35:21.68\00:35:23.79
so... so how did you...
00:35:23.82\00:35:26.65
it's okay Delilah, he
can crawl anywhere he wants.
00:35:26.69\00:35:32.86
Delilah, when he
began studying and reading
00:35:32.89\00:35:37.67
and you're like,
00:35:37.70\00:35:39.03
"Oh no... you're going
to go back to the Bible"
00:35:39.07\00:35:42.70
because you really believed
that it had to be the tradition
00:35:42.74\00:35:45.44
over the Bible, right?
00:35:45.47\00:35:46.81
Yes, I did at first but
it didn't take me long until
00:35:46.84\00:35:50.75
I noticed that the Bible
is really what I wanted to...
00:35:50.78\00:35:54.75
Shelley: Praise
God... praise God.
00:35:54.78\00:35:56.99
Now, I'll say one thing and...
00:35:57.05\00:35:58.82
her family was a
very tight-knitted family,
00:35:58.85\00:36:01.99
they had a very Godly family
00:36:02.02\00:36:06.29
yeah... a close family...
00:36:06.33\00:36:10.57
that would be a
Godly family I mean...
00:36:10.60\00:36:12.80
a lot of
traditions over the Bible
00:36:12.83\00:36:15.20
but their family was very tight,
00:36:15.24\00:36:17.61
way more than mine was
00:36:17.64\00:36:18.97
so it was easier for me
to go away from my family
00:36:19.01\00:36:21.88
than it was for her...
00:36:21.94\00:36:23.28
so, that was one thing...
00:36:23.31\00:36:24.65
she didn't want me
to read the Bible, so...
00:36:24.68\00:36:26.01
And I can... I mean...
that would be very difficult
00:36:26.05\00:36:29.78
but what you said about
Andy remaining in his clothes,
00:36:29.82\00:36:34.26
I want you to know... Andy
and Naomi Weaver are all in...
00:36:34.29\00:36:38.69
they are part of
this Adventist Movement
00:36:38.73\00:36:41.40
and they know the Bible
and they rely on the Bible
00:36:41.43\00:36:45.87
and just because
they still dress as Amish,
00:36:45.90\00:36:49.84
we were talking about
that in the Green Room
00:36:49.87\00:36:53.38
is Amish a culture
or is Amish a religion?
00:36:53.41\00:36:57.08
well, nobody can
really answer that for us
00:36:57.11\00:37:00.75
but I think I admire you...
00:37:00.78\00:37:02.65
and first of all,
it is your culture...
00:37:02.68\00:37:05.02
it is what you've grown up
with and what you're used to,
00:37:05.05\00:37:07.66
I can't imagine
just completely changing
00:37:07.69\00:37:10.96
but I admire you
00:37:10.99\00:37:12.73
because I think that's
what's going to attract people
00:37:12.76\00:37:15.46
like it
attracted Delilah and John,
00:37:15.50\00:37:18.50
is that... they're not...
00:37:18.53\00:37:21.47
you're not saying,
"Oh, you have to forsake
00:37:21.50\00:37:23.97
your whole lifestyle. "
00:37:24.01\00:37:25.81
It's just saying,
"Let's get with Jesus"
00:37:25.84\00:37:30.35
baby talk...
00:37:30.38\00:37:34.88
so, you all have... are
about to be baptized, right?
00:37:34.92\00:37:39.42
You have this... and
what has your experience been
00:37:39.45\00:37:43.96
now that God's...
00:37:43.99\00:37:47.20
the light of Scripture
has shown into your life,
00:37:47.23\00:37:50.43
are you finding greater
fullness and contentment?
00:37:50.47\00:37:53.03
John: Indeed. Shelley: Good.
00:37:53.07\00:37:54.90
John: Yes, I have no
desire to get baptized
00:37:54.94\00:38:00.21
to the Seventh-day Adventist
00:38:00.24\00:38:02.44
but by the
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:38:02.48\00:38:03.95
Shelley: Yeah, you're
being baptized into Christ.
00:38:04.01\00:38:06.05
Into Christ...
and at a later point,
00:38:06.08\00:38:08.32
I would consider
to become a member.
00:38:08.38\00:38:10.59
Delilah: Yes. John: Yes.
00:38:10.62\00:38:12.12
Shelley:
Understood... understood.
00:38:12.15\00:38:13.49
John: The reason I
say that this way is
00:38:13.52\00:38:15.49
because I had a huge
struggle with this...
00:38:15.52\00:38:17.46
the Amish when they baptize,
00:38:17.49\00:38:19.23
they baptize
them "to the church"
00:38:19.26\00:38:20.90
and I want people to know
that the Seventh-day Adventist
00:38:20.96\00:38:25.60
don't baptize
people "to the Adventist"
00:38:25.63\00:38:28.47
it's baptized by an Adventist
Pastor... to Jesus Christ
00:38:28.50\00:38:33.27
and membership is
at a later part...
00:38:33.31\00:38:36.04
or it can be at the same time.
00:38:36.08\00:38:37.41
Shelley: Absolutely.
00:38:37.45\00:38:38.78
John: But they're
two different things.
00:38:38.81\00:38:40.15
Shelley: Absolutely...
we are baptized into Christ.
00:38:40.18\00:38:42.48
John: Yes.
00:38:42.52\00:38:44.09
Shelley: Amen... Abe,
we have had you over here
00:38:44.12\00:38:46.52
in the corner and
not let you say much yet
00:38:46.55\00:38:47.99
so, you were a member of a
more progressive Denomination
00:38:48.02\00:38:53.40
of the Amish group
00:38:53.43\00:38:55.46
and was
excommunicated for what purpose?
00:38:55.50\00:38:58.57
Well, basically
for driving a car...
00:38:58.63\00:39:01.64
and you can't be an
Amish man and drive a car.
00:39:01.67\00:39:04.61
That's something... in
Andy's book he mentions that
00:39:04.64\00:39:07.91
it's more acceptable to drive
your horse and buggy to a bar
00:39:07.94\00:39:10.98
than to drive a car to church.
00:39:11.01\00:39:13.31
That is correct.
00:39:13.35\00:39:14.68
Oh, that's just amazing to me
00:39:14.72\00:39:16.35
but tell us how you
became involved with the Weavers
00:39:16.38\00:39:19.95
and West Salem Mission.
00:39:19.99\00:39:21.32
Well, I've had
some health issues...
00:39:21.36\00:39:24.13
I hurt my hip
when I was a kid...
00:39:24.19\00:39:27.13
and I was always
reading literature
00:39:27.16\00:39:29.50
trying to figure
out how to fix it,
00:39:29.53\00:39:31.80
and then, one day I came across
a book... a natural cures book
00:39:31.83\00:39:39.94
and the author was...
00:39:39.97\00:39:41.91
explained in the book
that he was an ex-member
00:39:41.94\00:39:46.75
of the Illuminati...
00:39:46.78\00:39:48.12
and... and that got
me... got my curiosity
00:39:48.15\00:39:51.72
and so I started
researching the Illuminati
00:39:51.75\00:39:55.06
and Secret
Societies and stuff like that
00:39:55.09\00:39:58.56
and in the process,
I came across a guy...
00:39:58.59\00:40:03.26
an Adventist guy that
explains that stuff...
00:40:03.30\00:40:07.90
Secret Societies...
00:40:07.94\00:40:09.97
Freemasons and he
came across the Pope
00:40:10.01\00:40:13.24
and... and that
pretty much ended my...
00:40:13.27\00:40:15.98
So you started
getting Bible doctrine...
00:40:16.04\00:40:18.68
somebody is preaching
against Secret Societies.
00:40:18.71\00:40:22.28
Abe: Yes. Shelley: Okay.
00:40:22.32\00:40:23.65
Abe: And that ended my research
and that... it made total...
00:40:23.69\00:40:27.82
he explained prophecy and
it made sense from the Bible
00:40:27.86\00:40:34.36
and I was... I mean I
was watching this stuff
00:40:34.40\00:40:39.43
for probably...
00:40:39.47\00:40:42.10
and the place where I worked...
00:40:42.14\00:40:44.37
I mean, I'm Amish... we
don't have Internet at home
00:40:44.41\00:40:47.38
at the place where I
work, I had Internet access,
00:40:47.41\00:40:50.45
so, I had had
all kinds of access
00:40:50.48\00:40:53.21
to all kinds of
information online at work
00:40:53.25\00:40:55.68
so, I would print stuff out
and take it home and read it
00:40:55.72\00:41:02.36
and yeah... and so I...
00:41:02.39\00:41:05.09
and this was going on for a year
00:41:05.13\00:41:09.06
or probably two years... a
year and a half... two years
00:41:09.10\00:41:12.43
and then my brother died very...
00:41:12.47\00:41:16.67
my brother was
going to Medical School...
00:41:16.71\00:41:20.08
he wasn't an Amish...
00:41:20.11\00:41:21.44
he was never a
member of the Amish church,
00:41:21.48\00:41:25.31
and he... because
of some circumstances
00:41:25.35\00:41:29.45
he started
getting seizures and...
00:41:29.48\00:41:31.75
Shelley: Oh, I'm sorry.
00:41:31.79\00:41:33.15
Died very suddenly.
00:41:33.19\00:41:34.52
Shelley: And very young.
00:41:34.56\00:41:35.99
Abe: Yeah, he was two
years younger than me.
00:41:36.02\00:41:38.99
Shelley: I'm so sorry.
00:41:39.03\00:41:41.03
Abe: Anyway, that was
the only comfort I had...
00:41:41.06\00:41:44.00
was listening and watching
00:41:44.03\00:41:47.64
and by this time
I had a Smartphone
00:41:47.67\00:41:51.47
because I was convinced that
00:41:51.51\00:41:55.41
the Amish rules are
not going to save me...
00:41:55.44\00:41:58.21
I didn't... I had no more
respect for the rules, basically
00:41:58.25\00:42:02.98
so, I had a Smartphone at home
00:42:03.02\00:42:05.45
and I could watch
this stuff at home
00:42:05.49\00:42:08.69
and I knew by this
time I knew that...
00:42:08.72\00:42:11.86
that I was convinced that
the Adventists have the truth
00:42:11.89\00:42:17.83
and... but I figured
well... but I loved being Amish,
00:42:17.87\00:42:23.74
I like being
Amish... the lifestyle...
00:42:23.77\00:42:25.74
and I was not ever
going to leave even though...
00:42:25.77\00:42:30.55
well, I... in my mind I was...
00:42:30.58\00:42:32.38
I was thinking that when
the Sunday Law comes in...
00:42:32.41\00:42:36.69
then I'll leave...
00:42:36.75\00:42:38.15
but I'll... up till
then, I'll probably stay Amish.
00:42:38.22\00:42:42.39
And, then...
less than a year later
00:42:42.42\00:42:46.53
my dad died very
suddenly from Pneumonia
00:42:46.59\00:42:52.90
and at that point, I was...
00:42:52.93\00:42:55.84
I remember at the
funeral I was like,
00:42:55.87\00:43:00.54
"Man! if that were
me, I'd probably be lost
00:43:00.58\00:43:04.25
because I'm living a lie. "
00:43:04.28\00:43:06.95
Shelley: Yeah.
00:43:06.98\00:43:08.32
And... so I... at that
point, I was starting...
00:43:08.35\00:43:14.99
I thought,
"Something has to change"
00:43:15.02\00:43:16.66
because I knew
about the Sabbath...
00:43:16.69\00:43:18.29
and... but I
wasn't keeping the Sabbath
00:43:18.33\00:43:22.93
but I was
basically convicted so in...
00:43:22.96\00:43:26.63
and that was in
February when my dad died
00:43:26.67\00:43:30.27
then in April... I had...
I started keeping the Sabbath
00:43:30.31\00:43:36.18
just on my own...
00:43:36.21\00:43:38.01
I was still going to an Amish...
00:43:38.05\00:43:40.28
well, that summer I had three...
00:43:40.32\00:43:42.48
I had part in
three Amish weddings
00:43:42.52\00:43:43.92
and that would not have
worked if I would have left
00:43:43.99\00:43:48.32
I wanted... the weddings
were close family members
00:43:48.36\00:43:52.69
and I decided I'm
going to wait to leave
00:43:52.73\00:43:56.70
till after the
weddings were over,
00:43:56.73\00:44:00.54
and the last one
was around Thanksgiving,
00:44:00.57\00:44:03.44
so... and at that point,
I desperately wanted to...
00:44:03.51\00:44:10.45
I thought I was
the only Amish person
00:44:10.48\00:44:13.35
that believed in the Sabbath,
00:44:13.38\00:44:14.72
I had no clue about West
Salem Mission at that time
00:44:14.75\00:44:18.22
but I desperately wanted...
00:44:18.25\00:44:20.72
I don't think I
even prayed about it
00:44:20.76\00:44:22.62
because I figured...
00:44:22.66\00:44:23.99
"there's nobody out
there that thinks like me. "
00:44:24.03\00:44:26.83
and then... well, at this
point, I had a Facebook Account
00:44:26.86\00:44:34.14
and I saw this Amish lady...
00:44:34.17\00:44:37.47
Swartzentruber
Amish lady on Facebook
00:44:37.51\00:44:40.38
and she commented... this
was on a Saturday evening,
00:44:40.41\00:44:44.68
she commented that she
had worn her Amish clothes
00:44:44.71\00:44:48.95
to church today
00:44:48.98\00:44:50.89
and I was like,
"What in the world...
00:44:50.92\00:44:53.02
there's... these people...
00:44:53.05\00:44:55.22
these are Amish people that
keep the Sabbath apparently"
00:44:55.26\00:44:58.69
and so I looked...
I dug a little deeper
00:44:58.73\00:45:03.63
and I was like,
00:45:03.67\00:45:05.00
"Oh, but they're
Swartzentruber Amish
00:45:05.03\00:45:06.67
and we... our Denomination
00:45:06.70\00:45:10.94
doesn't have anything to
do with the Swartzentrubers"
00:45:10.97\00:45:13.94
and so, I just kind
of ignored it for a while
00:45:13.98\00:45:18.85
and then later that summer...
00:45:18.91\00:45:20.78
it was about two months later,
00:45:20.82\00:45:22.62
on YouTube, I found
Andy and Naomi on...
00:45:22.65\00:45:28.19
when they were here
the other time... on 3ABN
00:45:28.22\00:45:33.36
and after the interview,
they had the contact information
00:45:33.40\00:45:42.30
and an e-mail address
and I thought to myself,
00:45:42.34\00:45:46.27
"Man, these people
think exactly like I do
00:45:46.31\00:45:50.18
I have to... I have to
come in contact with them. "
00:45:50.21\00:45:56.15
Shelley: Praise God... amen.
00:45:56.18\00:45:57.69
And so, after
the... so I sent them...
00:45:57.85\00:46:01.52
before I went...
that was in the evening
00:46:01.56\00:46:03.32
when I was watching it
00:46:03.36\00:46:04.69
and before I went to
bed, I sent them an e-mail
00:46:04.73\00:46:08.10
and by the next morning,
00:46:08.13\00:46:10.53
my neighbor... they
sent me a text back...
00:46:10.57\00:46:15.04
and it turned out,
00:46:15.07\00:46:16.40
my neighbor also is
convicted with the Sabbath
00:46:16.44\00:46:22.68
and he knew Andy and
Naomi and he had my e-mail...
00:46:22.71\00:46:29.22
the information I had
sent the evening before...
00:46:29.25\00:46:34.89
he had that on the text
and told me he wants to come
00:46:34.92\00:46:38.66
and talk with me sometime
00:46:38.69\00:46:40.03
it turns out my neighbor is...
00:46:40.06\00:46:42.40
his wife doesn't
believe in the Sabbath
00:46:42.43\00:46:46.30
so he goes to a
Mennonite Church but...
00:46:46.33\00:46:50.14
yeah... so he took me up...
00:46:50.17\00:46:53.81
I was still... I didn't
have a car at that time,
00:46:53.84\00:46:56.85
I had no way to...
00:46:56.88\00:46:58.21
and they lived about an
hour and ten minutes from me.
00:46:58.25\00:47:02.18
So... but that's how you
got started... and it's just...
00:47:02.22\00:47:06.29
I've got a
wonderful little co-host here
00:47:06.32\00:47:08.96
and he's kind of...
00:47:09.02\00:47:10.86
he hasn't decided if he
wants to join me for sure,
00:47:10.93\00:47:13.63
we only have a
couple of minutes left
00:47:13.66\00:47:16.06
and thank you...
00:47:16.10\00:47:17.43
I'm so glad that you
all have found one another
00:47:17.47\00:47:20.34
but we have to
talk about your book
00:47:20.37\00:47:23.00
and the book is called...
"The Anabaptist Remnant"
00:47:23.04\00:47:27.71
Andy: Yes, "The
Anabaptist Remnant"
00:47:27.74\00:47:29.24
Shelley: And this book is
coming out soon and very soon
00:47:29.28\00:47:32.21
and it... I have
to tell you Andy,
00:47:32.25\00:47:34.95
to hear the story...
it was so enlightening
00:47:34.98\00:47:39.25
because if you want to...
00:47:39.29\00:47:40.79
if you are trying to
share the gospel with...
00:47:40.82\00:47:46.16
somebody who is
Amish or Mennonite,
00:47:46.19\00:47:51.13
you have to
understand that they may resist
00:47:51.17\00:47:53.90
when you just go at
them with Scripture,
00:47:53.94\00:47:56.64
because they don't understand
00:47:56.67\00:47:59.11
that Scripture is actually
higher than their tradition
00:47:59.17\00:48:04.25
but there's so much I
learned about the Amish...
00:48:04.31\00:48:07.02
and I know
they're precious people
00:48:07.05\00:48:08.38
and I know how much
you all still love them
00:48:08.42\00:48:10.59
and that's why
you're ministering to them
00:48:10.62\00:48:12.75
but one thing I have to say,
00:48:12.79\00:48:14.72
"You are a very
good Bible Teacher... "
00:48:14.76\00:48:17.43
you're very practical
about your doctrinal truths
00:48:17.46\00:48:21.33
and how you teach.
00:48:21.36\00:48:22.70
Oh, praise the
Lord, I love the truth...
00:48:22.73\00:48:24.87
I love the Bible and we talked
a lot about the Bible today...
00:48:24.93\00:48:28.00
or little bit about the Bible,
00:48:28.04\00:48:29.57
about Old
Testament and New Testament
00:48:29.60\00:48:32.77
one of the beauties that
I've learned in Adventism is
00:48:32.81\00:48:36.75
that truth does not
change... it just grows,
00:48:36.78\00:48:41.45
it just... there's
a progression in truth
00:48:41.48\00:48:46.05
and that's what you
see from the Old Testament
00:48:46.09\00:48:47.92
going to the New Testament...
00:48:47.96\00:48:49.29
Shelley: Amen.
00:48:49.32\00:48:50.93
Proverbs 4:18,
00:48:50.96\00:48:52.53
"The path of the righteous just
shines brighter and brighter
00:48:52.56\00:48:56.00
until the coming of the day. "
00:48:56.03\00:48:57.37
Yeah, so, the New
Testament is vital,
00:48:57.40\00:48:59.13
it is very
important for us to have
00:48:59.20\00:49:00.97
but you really can't understand
the book of Revelation
00:49:01.00\00:49:05.74
and then even
Hebrews and even the gospels
00:49:05.77\00:49:08.48
if you don't
know the Old Testament
00:49:08.51\00:49:10.55
so it's really a
progression of truth...
00:49:10.58\00:49:12.35
it's in the New Testament.
00:49:12.41\00:49:13.75
Well, I just want to
highly recommend this book
00:49:13.78\00:49:18.69
because as JD said, "It
doesn't matter who you are
00:49:18.72\00:49:23.66
or what Denomination you are,
00:49:23.69\00:49:26.59
you can really learn from this"
00:49:26.63\00:49:28.83
you're just a
very practical person
00:49:28.86\00:49:31.07
as you put forth these truths
00:49:31.10\00:49:33.54
and tell us how God led
you into writing that book.
00:49:33.57\00:49:37.71
It's a long story, I've
had... so many people tell me,
00:49:37.74\00:49:41.84
"Andy, you
ought to write a book"
00:49:41.88\00:49:43.21
and I thought,
"Andy writing a book...
00:49:43.24\00:49:44.71
I'm a farmer, I'm not an author"
00:49:44.75\00:49:47.05
so, I just started
writing our life story
00:49:47.08\00:49:51.12
that was a few years ago
00:49:51.15\00:49:53.02
and I thought,
"Well, I did pretty good"
00:49:53.05\00:49:55.26
I just remembered a lot of
things that I had forgotten
00:49:55.29\00:49:57.79
and then about a year later
00:49:57.83\00:49:59.79
I went back and I read
it again and I thought,
00:49:59.83\00:50:02.00
"It's horrible... "
00:50:02.06\00:50:03.40
I was very critical of people
00:50:03.43\00:50:04.77
and I was very... you know,
00:50:04.80\00:50:06.13
kind of... lashing out at people
00:50:06.17\00:50:08.27
and so I made a lot of changes
00:50:08.30\00:50:10.34
and then it was probably
another six months or a year,
00:50:10.37\00:50:14.51
I read it again and I thought,
00:50:14.54\00:50:16.11
"Well, I sound very legalistic
it's all Law... Law... Law...
00:50:16.14\00:50:20.48
I mean that's
not what I believe"
00:50:20.52\00:50:21.92
I could see that I
was growing really fast
00:50:21.95\00:50:24.82
every time I
went back and read it
00:50:24.85\00:50:26.99
and so, yeah, it just...
00:50:27.06\00:50:30.43
it was a... it
took a couple of years
00:50:30.49\00:50:32.46
and I can't wait to
revise it because you know, I...
00:50:32.49\00:50:37.20
but it's... I
believe... I believe it's a...
00:50:37.23\00:50:42.10
it gives people a really
good idea where we come from
00:50:42.17\00:50:46.37
and some of the
struggles we have
00:50:46.41\00:50:47.74
and...
00:50:47.78\00:50:49.11
Well, and beyond
that, it really...
00:50:49.14\00:50:50.68
you do a great
presentation of the truth...
00:50:50.71\00:50:53.31
a great presentation
of righteousness by faith
00:50:53.35\00:50:55.95
and... but... and understanding
00:50:55.98\00:50:58.89
that when we talk of
obedience, that is not legalism
00:50:58.95\00:51:03.63
obedience... our obedience
is motivated by love for God
00:51:03.66\00:51:08.30
and it is just a sign
of our loyalty to Him.
00:51:08.36\00:51:11.63
Jesus said... if we love Him,
00:51:11.70\00:51:13.74
we will keep His
Commandments didn't He?
00:51:13.77\00:51:15.14
Andy: That's true.
00:51:15.17\00:51:16.60
Well, if you want to get
in touch with Andy and Naomi
00:51:16.67\00:51:20.71
or the West Salem Mission,
00:51:20.74\00:51:22.08
or if you'd like to get
this information on the book,
00:51:22.11\00:51:25.98
here is how you can
get in touch with them.
00:51:26.01\00:51:28.58
Music...
00:51:28.62\00:51:32.12
If you would like to
support the West Salem Mission
00:51:32.15\00:51:34.66
and their efforts to
build a multi-purpose building
00:51:34.69\00:51:37.16
that will serve as their church
and a Community Training Center,
00:51:37.19\00:51:40.46
you may do so in
a variety of ways,
00:51:40.50\00:51:42.53
you may e-mail them at
WestSalemMission@gmail. com
00:51:42.56\00:51:47.30
or call them at 567-334-1080
00:51:47.34\00:51:52.57
if you would like to write,
please address your letter to:
00:51:52.61\00:51:56.11
West Salem Mission P.O. Box 626
00:51:56.14\00:51:59.41
West Salem, Ohio 44287
00:51:59.45\00:52:02.92
and please ask the Holy Spirit
what He would have you do.
00:52:02.95\00:52:06.76
music...
00:52:06.79\00:52:13.46