I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today.
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My name is CA Murray.
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And allow me once again
to thank you for sharing
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just a little of
your day with us.
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To thank you for
your love, your prayers,
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your support of this ministry
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as for these three plus decades,
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we have tried to serve
the Lord with your assistance
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and your partnership.
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We've attempted to
lift up the name of Jesus
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and to carry the
good news of the soon
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coming of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ around the world.
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So thank you from
the bottom of our hearts
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for being with us.
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Got a very, very
special story today.
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So we want you to draw near
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and to receive
inspiration from two people
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that I've come to know
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and really respect
and love in the short time
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that we've had a
chance to communicate
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with each other who
have been through tragedy
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but have turned
tragedy into ministry,
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ministry and trial into triumph.
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Please meet Tim
and Jamie Grindley.
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Good to have you both here.
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Tim, good to have
you here too, man.
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It's good to be here.
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They come to us from...
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I don't know this
town Tryon, North Carolina.
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Where is that in the state near?
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It's kind of halfway
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between
Asheville, North Carolina
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and Spartanburg, South Carolina.
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Little short of
Spartanburg in the foothills.
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Right at the North
Carolina, South Carolina border.
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Border, yeah.
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Kind of in the
southern part of the state.
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Yeah. So good to have you here.
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I can tell you, now
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they've been through
a pretty tough tragedy
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but you can see on
their beautiful smiling faces
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that God has been with them.
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And we're going to sort
of walk our way through that.
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And what I think I want to do
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is just go to our music now
because once we get started,
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I don't want to sort of hit
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the pause
button to go to a song,
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but we want to
go to our song first
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and then I want
to come back and walk
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through what
they've been walking
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through for the
past several years
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and how God has sustained them.
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And as you hear their testimony,
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you can really
get courage to know
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that just about
anything life throws you away,
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with the power
of God in your life
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you can handle
it in Jesus Christ.
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And come off
more than a conqueror
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through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
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And that's what they're going
to be telling you about today.
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They will be quick
to tell you the story,
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it's not about
them per se as much
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as it is about
God's ability to heal,
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to strengthen and
to make you stronger
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on the other side
of the pretty rough set
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of circumstances
that you can go to.
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So thank you for being here.
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Our music today is coming
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from my good
buddy, Wintley Phipps,
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we were in undergrad
together, grad school together
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and spent a lot of
time over the years.
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He's going to be
singing a really beautiful song,
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"All the way my
savior leads me".
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All the way my Savior leads me
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What have I to ask beside?
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Can I doubt His tender mercy?
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Who through life
has been my guide
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Heavenly peace, divinest comfort
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Ere by faith in Him to dwell
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For I know whate'er fall me
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Jesus doeth all things well
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For I know whate'er fall me
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Jesus doeth
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All things well
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All the way my Savior leads me
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Cheers each winding path
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I tread Gives me
grace for every trial
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Feeds me with the living bread
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Though my weary steps may falter
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And my soul
a-thirst may be Gushing
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From the rock before me
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Though a spring of joy I see
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Gushing from the rock before me
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Though a spring of joy I see
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All the way my Savior leads me
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Oh, the fullness of His love
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Perfect rest to me is promised
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In my Father's house above
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When my spirit clothed immortal
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Wings its flight
through the realms of the day
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This my song
through endless ages
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Jesus led me all the way
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This my song
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Through endless ages
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Jesus led
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Me all
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The way
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Amen and amen.
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Wintley Phipps, "All
the way my savior leads me".
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Wonderfully sung.
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And perhaps Tim and Jamie
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that is kind of emblematic
of what you've gone through,
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savior has had to
lead you through some,
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can I say rough
stuff over these years.
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And we're going to talk about
that but before we get into,
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to Caleb and he of course
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is part of the
heart of the story.
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Give me just a
little background.
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Jamie, we'll start
with you Adventist family
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I understand and going
back, maybe a few years.
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Yes, my mother and her parents.
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And
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I'm a fourth
generation Adventist.
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My mother was from Switzerland.
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And so her family was
some of the first Adventist
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in Switzerland
from what I understand.
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So you've got
little lineage there.
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Yeah, praise the Lord.
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I was Adventist
before I was born.
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And grew up with
a wonderful promises
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and assurance that we have.
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Praise the Lord.
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And, Tim, same thing
Adventist background?
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Yes, yes. It was
Adventist background.
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But it's something
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that I take
very personal myself.
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I mean, yes, I'm glad
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that my parents
and my grandparents
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were Adventist but,
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you know, that just
gives me a good start.
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Yeah, can't get
it on their quotas.
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Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah.
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And so I just love the Bible,
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the Bible is such a
wonderful gift to us,
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the stories, the
message, the doctrine.
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Praise the Lord. I love it.
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Let me ask, how
did you guys meet?
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We met, we both
went to Southern...
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Tim is smiling, so...
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We met at Mickey Baking Company,
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we worked together.
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Made, making sweet things. Yes.
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Praise the Lord.
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It's important to know
that you are marrying somebody
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that is a good
worker and conscientious.
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It is good because
in talking with you,
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you've worked
together for a great part
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of your working career.
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So it's good to know
that you kind of meet somebody
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that kind of matches
you and resonates with you.
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In whose mind did it first occur
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that maybe this may be the one?
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Jamie, Tim, who was first?
Or who did it occur to first?
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Well, I know I enjoyed
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spending time with him and...
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Yeah. Real quick.
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Real quick let me
say after a short time
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I fell madly in love with her.
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But at 18 I'm like is,
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I don't know that I'm prepared
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for the next
step of being married.
00:10:17.31\00:10:20.28
And so I did say
"Let's take a breather."
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I needed a breather.
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And, but after a
couple years I said,
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"My mind is so
wrapped up with her."
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I just, let's
date again, so we did.
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And then ultimately got married.
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We've known each
other for four years.
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At the time. Yeah, yeah.
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So 22 is still fairly early,
it's not late in life that's...
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And of course
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if you are kind of
smitten and got bit at 18,
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that is a little young.
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You know, you've
got other things to do
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to try to get
yourself established,
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you're at school,
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you're working for Mickey Foods
and doing that kind of thing.
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So you're married
now and five children.
00:11:00.79\00:11:04.66
Am I correct? Five.
00:11:04.69\00:11:06.16
Give me their names.
00:11:06.19\00:11:07.50
Kitora, Caleb, Annelise,
00:11:07.60\00:11:11.20
Jens and Marita.
00:11:11.23\00:11:14.20
And you were living
00:11:14.24\00:11:15.67
when all of this
we're getting ready
00:11:15.70\00:11:17.07
to talk about in North
Carolina or you still in,
00:11:17.11\00:11:19.71
you're in North
Carolina at that point.
00:11:19.74\00:11:21.31
Okay. We've been
there for 25 years.
00:11:21.34\00:11:23.18
Good little
while, good little while.
00:11:23.21\00:11:24.61
But our first was born
when we lived in Collegedale.
00:11:24.65\00:11:29.15
And then when we
lived in the Marietta area,
00:11:29.18\00:11:32.69
Marietta, Georgia,
the next three were born.
00:11:32.72\00:11:35.82
And then when we
moved to North Carolina,
00:11:35.86\00:11:37.89
Marita was born.
00:11:37.93\00:11:39.26
But they were all born
00:11:39.29\00:11:41.40
in Chattanooga at
Erlanger Hospital.
00:11:41.43\00:11:45.00
We always go back
there to the doctor,
00:11:45.03\00:11:46.37
we like to get to the doctor.
00:11:46.40\00:11:47.74
Oh, praise the Lord.
00:11:47.77\00:11:49.10
So well, we praise
the Lord for consistency.
00:11:49.14\00:11:50.57
Yes.
00:11:50.64\00:11:52.17
So, of course,
everybody's being raised up
00:11:52.21\00:11:53.74
in an Adventist
home because you're...
00:11:53.81\00:11:56.54
Tell me the kinds of
things you did work wise
00:11:56.58\00:11:59.01
'cause I know
you're a nurse, Jamie.
00:11:59.05\00:12:02.72
Well, I was working
when we were in Tennessee,
00:12:02.75\00:12:06.59
I worked part of the time
00:12:06.62\00:12:09.39
with when our
first child was born.
00:12:09.42\00:12:11.69
Then we moved to and
Tim is an accountant,
00:12:11.73\00:12:14.66
we moved to Georgia,
00:12:14.73\00:12:17.33
he had been working first of all
00:12:17.37\00:12:19.37
at BlueCross
BlueShield in Tennessee.
00:12:19.40\00:12:21.20
And then we went to Georgia
and he transferred down there.
00:12:21.24\00:12:24.34
And the next three were born.
00:12:24.37\00:12:25.71
And by this time
00:12:25.74\00:12:27.08
then I just became
a stay at home mom,
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.11
and he was working.
00:12:29.14\00:12:30.98
But we just enjoy being together
00:12:31.01\00:12:32.71
and we wanted to do something
that we could work together
00:12:32.75\00:12:35.72
and spend our time together at.
00:12:35.75\00:12:37.45
And we became acquainted with,
00:12:37.49\00:12:40.32
in Georgia it's
called personal care homes.
00:12:40.36\00:12:42.96
In North Carolina it
was called assisted living.
00:12:42.99\00:12:46.66
But we saw an advertisement
in the Southern Tidings
00:12:46.70\00:12:49.43
actually for DDA home for sale,
00:12:49.46\00:12:52.73
which is
Developmentally Disabled Adults.
00:12:52.77\00:12:55.60
And so we looked at that
place and we bought that.
00:12:55.64\00:12:59.01
And the eight
residents lived downstairs
00:12:59.04\00:13:02.34
and we were upstairs
with our five children.
00:13:02.38\00:13:04.71
We just, we just
enjoyed working together
00:13:04.75\00:13:07.22
and we still do.
00:13:07.25\00:13:08.58
When I pastored in Amityville,
00:13:08.62\00:13:12.25
one of my elders and his wife
00:13:12.29\00:13:13.66
who was also on our
end did the same thing.
00:13:13.69\00:13:16.29
In New York that's
kind of a big deal.
00:13:16.32\00:13:18.53
If you can
provide the facilities,
00:13:18.56\00:13:20.13
you can take as many
as you can you can handle.
00:13:20.20\00:13:23.57
And it's nice if you,
if you get along together.
00:13:23.63\00:13:26.33
There are some
people who will tell you,
00:13:26.37\00:13:27.94
don't ever work with
your wife or with your mate
00:13:27.97\00:13:31.57
or but for in
your case obviously
00:13:31.61\00:13:34.24
it worked out very, very well,
00:13:34.28\00:13:35.61
you like each other, you
like each other's company.
00:13:35.64\00:13:37.31
And you sort of work
at the same frequency.
00:13:37.35\00:13:39.45
You know, you kind of
resonate at the same frequency.
00:13:39.48\00:13:41.65
And that's a good thing.
00:13:41.68\00:13:43.65
You know, that's
a real good thing.
00:13:43.69\00:13:45.72
So we're moving, we're growing,
the kids are growing up.
00:13:45.75\00:13:49.82
And let's go now to that
night that we walked through.
00:13:49.86\00:13:54.03
And give me some sense
of what happened with Caleb
00:13:54.10\00:13:56.40
that whole situation that night?
00:13:56.43\00:13:58.37
Well, I would like to
begin, Caleb was around 23.
00:13:58.40\00:14:04.24
And he at this time
00:14:04.31\00:14:06.88
we were not
doing assisted living
00:14:06.91\00:14:08.88
but we had the two,
00:14:08.91\00:14:10.25
we had our home and
then the assisted living
00:14:10.28\00:14:12.48
facility home behind us.
00:14:12.51\00:14:14.22
And Caleb was living,
that was his little area,
00:14:14.25\00:14:17.85
he lived back there.
00:14:17.89\00:14:20.99
And we would see
each other daily and talk.
00:14:21.02\00:14:24.16
And there was many times
00:14:24.23\00:14:25.56
as we would
talk and I would say,
00:14:25.59\00:14:27.03
"Caleb, I just
don't feel comfortable
00:14:27.10\00:14:31.53
with what you're doing
00:14:31.57\00:14:32.90
and that decision that you made.
00:14:32.93\00:14:34.74
And I don't think
00:14:34.77\00:14:36.97
that's what Jesus
would want you to do."
00:14:37.01\00:14:38.71
And that decision was?
00:14:38.74\00:14:42.34
Whatever something that
I didn't think it was...
00:14:42.38\00:14:43.91
Oh, any particular decision.
00:14:43.95\00:14:45.28
Okay, I got you. Yeah.
00:14:45.31\00:14:47.08
Use of time.
Right. Just whatever.
00:14:47.12\00:14:49.85
And so, but then I would lay
00:14:49.88\00:14:51.92
in bed at night
and I would think,
00:14:51.95\00:14:53.32
"He is 23 and he's an adult."
00:14:53.36\00:14:58.36
I mean, I was, when I
was 23 it's like, boy,
00:14:58.39\00:15:00.73
if my parents would talk to me
00:15:00.76\00:15:02.06
that way I would
have felt resentful.
00:15:02.10\00:15:04.27
And so I call him up, I say,
00:15:04.30\00:15:07.37
"Caleb, I'm so sorry
that I talk to you that way.
00:15:07.44\00:15:10.01
Will you please
forgive me, you're an adult.
00:15:10.04\00:15:11.57
And you have to
make your own decisions."
00:15:11.61\00:15:12.94
He said, "Mom, I
love you so much,
00:15:12.97\00:15:14.88
it's okay, I forgive you."
00:15:14.91\00:15:16.75
But I found myself
four, five or six times having
00:15:16.78\00:15:19.15
the same conversation with him.
00:15:19.18\00:15:20.72
And finally I
flung myself on my bed.
00:15:20.75\00:15:25.49
And I slid to
the floor and I said,
00:15:25.52\00:15:27.06
"Lord, these five
children you gave us,
00:15:27.09\00:15:30.73
they're not really
ours, they're Yours.
00:15:30.76\00:15:33.60
And I know that You
love them more than I do.
00:15:33.63\00:15:38.37
And You want their salvation,
their heart fully to You.
00:15:38.40\00:15:43.24
And so from now on
since you're the Father,
00:15:43.27\00:15:47.74
You do the disciplining
and just help me to love them
00:15:47.78\00:15:50.95
unconditionally."
00:15:50.98\00:15:52.91
And I said, I really
don't want anybody to suffer.
00:15:52.95\00:15:58.62
But if that's what
it takes to save them,
00:15:58.65\00:16:01.06
You have my permission.
00:16:01.09\00:16:03.49
And then I wept, I said,
00:16:03.56\00:16:04.89
I really don't
want anybody to die.
00:16:04.93\00:16:06.83
And I wasn't thinking of
my, any of my children dying,
00:16:06.86\00:16:09.03
I was thinking of myself
00:16:09.06\00:16:12.50
or a friend or some other family
00:16:12.53\00:16:15.74
member something and sometimes
when somebody dies it turns
00:16:15.77\00:16:20.38
somebody else
around and to the Lord.
00:16:20.41\00:16:22.31
And let me just tap the
brakes for a second, Jamie,
00:16:22.34\00:16:26.01
because and we
talked about this before,
00:16:26.05\00:16:27.92
your relationship with Caleb
00:16:27.95\00:16:29.35
was such that you
could kind of correct him
00:16:29.38\00:16:32.32
and speak to him plainly
00:16:32.35\00:16:33.89
but it didn't
destroy the relationship.
00:16:33.96\00:16:35.29
That is the depth
of the relationship
00:16:35.32\00:16:36.93
that you had that it certainly
could survive and even thrive,
00:16:36.96\00:16:40.93
even though
sometimes you saw things
00:16:40.96\00:16:42.26
you didn't like
and you address that
00:16:42.30\00:16:44.07
but it didn't destroy
what you had together.
00:16:44.13\00:16:46.60
He would
listen, he would listen,
00:16:46.63\00:16:49.10
he would make his decisions
00:16:49.14\00:16:51.34
but he was kind
and the fact that he...
00:16:51.37\00:16:54.24
He was always respectful.
00:16:54.28\00:16:55.61
He did not ever roll
his eyes or say anything,
00:16:55.64\00:17:00.38
you know, unkind to me.
00:17:00.45\00:17:01.78
He was always
very respectful to me.
00:17:01.82\00:17:04.02
And we...
00:17:04.05\00:17:05.59
When you
apologized, he accepted that.
00:17:05.62\00:17:07.09
Oh, yes, he did.
00:17:07.12\00:17:08.46
Even when it was
four or five or six times,
00:17:08.49\00:17:10.59
you know Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:10.66\00:17:13.13
And praise the Lord for that,
the depth of the relationship
00:17:13.16\00:17:15.33
that could thrive in
that kind of situation.
00:17:15.36\00:17:17.73
So praise the
Lord for that. Yeah.
00:17:17.77\00:17:19.10
It was like
00:17:19.13\00:17:20.47
when you're the
parents of young children,
00:17:20.54\00:17:21.87
you pray,
00:17:21.90\00:17:23.24
when you're the
parents of adult children
00:17:23.27\00:17:24.61
you really pray.
00:17:24.64\00:17:26.68
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:26.71\00:17:28.54
So anyway,
00:17:28.58\00:17:32.55
a couple of years later
00:17:32.58\00:17:35.62
I was skyping
00:17:35.65\00:17:36.99
with our
daughter in Switzerland.
00:17:37.02\00:17:39.95
And it was, it
was a rainy morning.
00:17:39.99\00:17:43.63
And I remember
rolling out of bed and saying,
00:17:43.66\00:17:48.16
"Lord, I know even
though it's raining outside,
00:17:48.20\00:17:51.03
the sun is
shining above the clouds
00:17:51.07\00:17:52.87
and you know all about today.
00:17:52.90\00:17:54.70
And nothing's going to happen
00:17:54.74\00:17:56.07
that You won't give us the grace
00:17:56.10\00:17:57.47
and the strength to
face whatever it is."
00:17:57.51\00:18:01.28
And so a little
later in that morning
00:18:01.31\00:18:05.08
I was skyping
with Kitora and Bruce
00:18:05.11\00:18:07.55
in Switzerland.
00:18:07.58\00:18:09.25
And I asked her if
she had heard about...
00:18:09.28\00:18:13.99
This was on a
Wednesday, on Sunday one of our,
00:18:14.02\00:18:16.99
a family friend
that I had grown up
00:18:17.06\00:18:18.39
with was killed
in a car accident.
00:18:18.43\00:18:22.03
And I asked Kitora if
she had heard about Scott.
00:18:22.06\00:18:24.87
And she said, "Yes, I did."
00:18:24.90\00:18:28.30
She said either these
things are happening more often
00:18:28.34\00:18:31.94
or I'm just
becoming more aware of it.
00:18:31.97\00:18:34.58
And I said, she said at any rate
00:18:34.61\00:18:37.95
it just kind of takes
your, takes your words away.
00:18:37.98\00:18:41.78
I said that's true
but Scott is sleeping.
00:18:41.82\00:18:44.52
And the trumpet will
sound and we'll see Scott again.
00:18:44.55\00:18:49.39
And she said, "Mom, I
have heard all my life
00:18:49.42\00:18:51.83
that Jesus is coming again,
00:18:51.86\00:18:53.80
even the
disciples believe that."
00:18:53.83\00:18:57.03
And she says,
"It hasn't happened."
00:18:57.07\00:18:58.77
She said, "I'm
beginning to think a person
00:18:58.80\00:19:01.20
has to go to
sleep for it to happen."
00:19:01.24\00:19:03.94
At any rate, she said,
"It doesn't sound so bad.
00:19:03.97\00:19:08.11
So don't worry, Mom, I'm okay."
00:19:08.14\00:19:10.08
Well, I texted
back to her, I said,
00:19:10.11\00:19:12.48
"Kitora, they that wait
00:19:12.51\00:19:15.28
upon the Lord shall
renew their strength,
00:19:15.32\00:19:17.15
they shall mount up
with wings as eagles,
00:19:17.22\00:19:18.72
they shall run and not be weary
and not walk and not faint."
00:19:18.75\00:19:21.89
And she said, "I know, Mom.
00:19:21.92\00:19:23.26
I know, thank you
for the encouragement."
00:19:23.29\00:19:25.83
Well, it was just a short time
00:19:25.86\00:19:27.30
later Caleb came
running into the room,
00:19:27.36\00:19:29.70
to the computer room
and he saw his sister,
00:19:29.73\00:19:32.43
he said, "Hey Kitora."
00:19:32.47\00:19:33.84
Bruce said, "Hey Caleb."
00:19:33.87\00:19:35.20
Oh, wow, so great to see you.
00:19:35.24\00:19:36.57
And they were
talking and I looked at Caleb
00:19:36.60\00:19:38.94
and I said,
"Caleb, this is Wednesday
00:19:38.97\00:19:41.58
and it's your off day
00:19:41.61\00:19:42.94
and you're
wearing your NAPA shirt."
00:19:42.98\00:19:45.85
He said, "Well,
something had happened
00:19:45.88\00:19:47.72
and they had an emergency
00:19:47.75\00:19:49.82
and they asked if
you'd come in and help
00:19:49.85\00:19:51.19
and he said he would.
00:19:51.22\00:19:52.92
And he said I can't talk long.
00:19:52.95\00:19:54.86
So they talked just a
few a couple more minutes
00:19:54.89\00:19:57.96
and Caleb left the house.
00:19:57.99\00:20:01.03
And one minute later
our electricity went off.
00:20:01.06\00:20:04.27
And...
00:20:04.30\00:20:06.03
So I went out to the living room
00:20:06.07\00:20:10.07
where Tim had been
talking to our daughter
00:20:10.11\00:20:13.34
who lives in Canada.
00:20:13.38\00:20:14.88
And the phone
went off and I said,
00:20:14.91\00:20:18.31
"Did you hear something
when our electricity went off?
00:20:18.35\00:20:20.98
Like somebody hit
the telephone pole
00:20:21.02\00:20:22.92
or something fell on
the line or whatever."
00:20:22.95\00:20:26.86
And I said, "Man,
Caleb just left the house
00:20:26.92\00:20:30.19
and maybe he'll have passed
something, I'll call him."
00:20:30.23\00:20:34.10
So I dialed his
cell phone number
00:20:34.13\00:20:36.93
and it just rang
and rang and rang.
00:20:37.00\00:20:39.33
Called him again, it
rang and rang and rang.
00:20:39.37\00:20:41.10
And I've got this kind
of this rising going up
00:20:41.14\00:20:44.17
in my gut felling and
the third time I called,
00:20:44.24\00:20:48.04
I heard a vibration
on the kitchen counter.
00:20:48.08\00:20:50.08
And I went in there
00:20:50.11\00:20:51.45
and he had left his
cell phone on the counter.
00:20:51.48\00:20:54.15
And so I thought,
00:20:54.18\00:20:55.78
well, he's going to need
this to deliver that parts in.
00:20:55.82\00:21:00.06
And I called NAPA and they said,
00:21:00.09\00:21:01.42
"No, he's not here
but we really need him.
00:21:01.46\00:21:03.53
So I said, well, tell him
to call me on my cell phone.
00:21:03.56\00:21:07.03
So I told Tim, he says,
00:21:07.10\00:21:08.40
"I'm just going to put his phone
00:21:08.43\00:21:09.76
in my pocket and
I'll take it to him."
00:21:09.80\00:21:13.30
So I went out the front door
00:21:13.34\00:21:15.74
and there were
these flashing blue lights
00:21:15.77\00:21:17.81
just up the road you could see.
00:21:17.84\00:21:20.14
From the house
it was very close.
00:21:20.18\00:21:22.01
Let me ask you this here, Jamie,
00:21:22.04\00:21:24.41
being a mom
00:21:24.45\00:21:25.78
with a pretty good
connection with your son.
00:21:25.81\00:21:28.42
At this time was
there any anxiety at all,
00:21:28.45\00:21:31.35
were you feeling
anything, aware of anything,
00:21:31.39\00:21:33.32
any kind of premonition
or sense of anything?
00:21:33.36\00:21:36.69
I would have to say, yes,
I felt a little bit anxious
00:21:36.73\00:21:39.53
even though when
I found his phone.
00:21:39.56\00:21:43.10
You know, that's why
I wasn't getting him.
00:21:43.13\00:21:45.13
So I thought, okay, so
anyway we got in the car,
00:21:45.17\00:21:49.74
I got in the car
00:21:49.77\00:21:51.11
and our youngest daughter
jumped in the passenger's seat.
00:21:51.14\00:21:54.21
And we pulled
out in the driveway
00:21:54.24\00:21:55.61
and turned left and the
road was barricaded so...
00:21:55.64\00:21:59.58
And we just live out
00:21:59.61\00:22:01.02
in the country
on a country road.
00:22:01.05\00:22:04.22
But you could see
00:22:04.29\00:22:05.62
that there was a
blue tarp over a car.
00:22:05.65\00:22:08.32
And I ran up
there and it's raining.
00:22:08.36\00:22:10.96
And I said is that
a Honda under there.
00:22:10.99\00:22:13.90
And they said, yes, it is.
00:22:13.93\00:22:15.93
And I said, is it a Honda
Civic and I was trying to go up
00:22:15.96\00:22:17.53
and they wouldn't let me
00:22:17.57\00:22:18.90
but I could see
the bumper of the car
00:22:18.93\00:22:20.27
and I could see
00:22:20.30\00:22:21.64
that it was the
bumper of Caleb's car.
00:22:21.67\00:22:23.51
And they said,
yes, it is a Civic.
00:22:23.57\00:22:26.51
And said that this
guy worked at NAPA.
00:22:26.54\00:22:28.14
I said, "My son works at
NAPA and I have to see him."
00:22:28.18\00:22:31.71
And they said we're not
going to let you see him.
00:22:31.75\00:22:35.08
And I just, I knelt down
00:22:35.12\00:22:38.02
on the road, put
my arm up and I said,
00:22:38.05\00:22:40.12
"Lord Jesus," I
said, "Caleb, help him."
00:22:40.16\00:22:42.96
I didn't say save him
00:22:42.99\00:22:44.33
because I just
kind of had this feeling
00:22:44.36\00:22:45.69
but a man came and
tap me on the shoulder.
00:22:45.73\00:22:47.60
And he said,
00:22:47.60\00:22:48.93
"I'm sorry, ma'am,
he's already gone."
00:22:48.96\00:22:50.83
And I got up off
my knees and I said,
00:22:50.90\00:22:53.20
"God, I don't understand.
00:22:53.27\00:22:55.50
But I know you see
the bigger picture."
00:22:55.54\00:22:57.14
And I remembered
00:22:57.17\00:22:58.51
what I had prayed that morning
00:22:58.54\00:22:59.87
and how my
prayers had been going.
00:22:59.91\00:23:02.51
And you know I
called Kitora in Switzerland
00:23:02.54\00:23:06.75
and you know told her,
00:23:06.82\00:23:08.15
and about this time Tim
came running up the road.
00:23:08.18\00:23:11.49
And this is two
blocks from our house.
00:23:11.52\00:23:14.39
So not far at all.
00:23:14.42\00:23:15.76
I said, "Tim, it's
Caleb and he's already gone."
00:23:15.79\00:23:19.33
And he got down on his
knees and he pounded the road.
00:23:19.36\00:23:23.63
And you know at that
point what do you do,
00:23:23.67\00:23:27.04
you know, you just
start calling people.
00:23:27.10\00:23:29.90
And I kept just
saying, you know, I just,
00:23:29.97\00:23:32.31
I really just want to see him,
00:23:32.34\00:23:33.68
I just want to touch
him while it was warm.
00:23:33.74\00:23:37.41
Well, after a little bit
the state patrol guy came to me
00:23:37.45\00:23:43.12
and he said,
00:23:43.15\00:23:45.12
"After the paramedics leave,
00:23:45.15\00:23:49.32
you can go into the ambulance
and you can see your son.
00:23:49.36\00:23:53.86
I'll be in charge of the scene
of the accident at that point."
00:23:53.90\00:23:57.13
And so when they left,
one of the ambulance guys
00:23:57.20\00:24:00.84
you know open the
door and we went in there.
00:24:00.87\00:24:02.97
And by this time our pastor
had come running down the road
00:24:03.00\00:24:05.94
and I asked him to come
in the ambulance with us.
00:24:05.97\00:24:09.34
And we went in there
and I unzipped the bag
00:24:09.38\00:24:12.95
and I just took
Caleb's head in my hand,
00:24:12.98\00:24:15.65
I mean, he looked,
he looked beautiful,
00:24:15.68\00:24:19.02
just so happened how
the accident had happened.
00:24:19.05\00:24:22.66
And he was on his
way back to the house,
00:24:22.69\00:24:24.46
I know 'cause the guy
that tapped me on the shoulder
00:24:24.49\00:24:26.29
had been
following right behind him.
00:24:26.33\00:24:28.26
And he turned, he
said I ran to the corner
00:24:28.30\00:24:30.33
and he was coming
back and going this way.
00:24:30.37\00:24:33.50
And I said just a little bit of,
00:24:33.54\00:24:36.77
said he wasn't speeding.
00:24:36.81\00:24:38.31
I'm sure he wasn't.
00:24:38.34\00:24:39.67
Caleb, I'm sure
he was going faster
00:24:39.71\00:24:41.04
than he should have.
00:24:41.08\00:24:42.41
But the way that the...
00:24:42.44\00:24:44.45
He hydroplaned
00:24:44.48\00:24:46.15
and ended up the
roof of the car hit
00:24:46.18\00:24:48.25
the telephone pole.
00:24:48.28\00:24:49.62
The car was on its side
00:24:49.65\00:24:50.99
just going along
side on the side.
00:24:51.02\00:24:53.56
The roof hit the telephone
pole right where his head was.
00:24:53.62\00:24:55.66
And so it didn't
deface anything up.
00:24:55.69\00:24:58.86
But anyway I asked.
00:24:58.89\00:25:00.63
So that may be what knocked
00:25:00.66\00:25:01.96
the power out in
your neighborhood.
00:25:02.00\00:25:03.33
Yes, it was.
Knocked the transformer.
00:25:03.37\00:25:04.80
It's only a
minute after he left,
00:25:04.83\00:25:06.20
he got up just a short
ways and turned around.
00:25:06.23\00:25:08.14
He's trying to
come get his phone.
00:25:08.17\00:25:09.50
Yes, and...
00:25:09.54\00:25:12.91
So I asked the
pastor, he came on and I said,
00:25:12.94\00:25:15.68
"Would you just
say a word of prayer."
00:25:15.71\00:25:18.08
You know, my first reaction was,
00:25:18.11\00:25:19.65
"Would you pray
00:25:19.68\00:25:21.02
because Jesus raise
Lazarus from the dead."
00:25:21.05\00:25:24.29
We could pray and
even as I said that I said,
00:25:24.32\00:25:27.69
"God, you are in
control and for me to,
00:25:27.72\00:25:33.06
you know, I mean, how
do you process all this?"
00:25:33.09\00:25:36.13
But Caleb every day was
calling me and telling me
00:25:36.16\00:25:39.10
how much he loved
me and you know just,
00:25:39.13\00:25:42.14
you know thinking of me and...
00:25:42.17\00:25:45.57
But, so anyway, here
we go, we're, we are,
00:25:45.61\00:25:50.61
that night we are laying
in bed and tossing and turning
00:25:50.65\00:25:53.68
and Tim said, "I
don't know how Job dealt
00:25:53.72\00:25:57.79
with losing all of
his children at once."
00:25:57.82\00:26:01.66
And I said, "We
still have five children,
00:26:01.69\00:26:03.46
one of them is just sleeping.
00:26:03.49\00:26:05.33
One of them is just sleeping,
Caleb is just sleeping."
00:26:05.36\00:26:08.33
And you're then
less than 24 hours
00:26:08.36\00:26:10.60
after your child is killed,
you're at the funeral home.
00:26:10.67\00:26:16.17
And the lady that her husband
on the funeral home knew Caleb,
00:26:16.20\00:26:21.21
he waited on them
00:26:21.24\00:26:22.58
at the restaurant
where he had worked.
00:26:22.61\00:26:24.75
And she said,
00:26:24.78\00:26:26.92
"We need to plan
a memorial service."
00:26:26.95\00:26:28.85
And from that point it's like...
00:26:28.88\00:26:31.29
And how do you do then?
00:26:31.32\00:26:33.05
You know, and I need to back up
00:26:33.09\00:26:35.89
just a little
bit here because in,
00:26:35.92\00:26:39.63
this was in 2012
the accident happened.
00:26:39.66\00:26:43.43
Well, it was in January of 2012,
00:26:43.47\00:26:46.10
Caleb was at the house
00:26:46.13\00:26:48.54
and he was practicing
his cello and playing.
00:26:48.57\00:26:50.67
And he said, "Mama."
00:26:50.71\00:26:52.24
He said, "When I played
00:26:52.27\00:26:53.64
at the Hendersonville
First Baptist Church
00:26:53.68\00:26:56.38
for the Messiah presentations.
00:26:56.41\00:26:58.75
And that had been
eight years before that
00:26:58.78\00:27:01.72
that was the
last time they did it,
00:27:01.75\00:27:03.85
and the church had
done it for about 30 years.
00:27:03.92\00:27:06.79
But he played in every
December for about 30 years.
00:27:06.82\00:27:10.06
And I mean for about three years
00:27:10.09\00:27:13.26
and he said that meant
00:27:13.29\00:27:16.20
so much to me.
00:27:16.23\00:27:19.40
I sure wish we
could do that again.
00:27:19.43\00:27:20.77
I said, "Caleb,
00:27:20.84\00:27:22.17
I have the
gentleman's name on my phone
00:27:22.20\00:27:24.04
who sang the solo part
to the trumpet shall sound
00:27:24.11\00:27:27.28
and the dead shall be raised.
00:27:27.31\00:27:28.81
And I'll call Skip and
see if he'll come and sing.
00:27:28.84\00:27:31.71
Well, I called Skip and he said,
00:27:31.75\00:27:33.42
"I'd love to come and sing.
00:27:33.45\00:27:34.78
And we had a
trumpeter and two violins.
00:27:34.82\00:27:36.79
And Caleb played his cello.
00:27:36.82\00:27:38.95
And April 7th,
Sabbath April 7th,
00:27:38.99\00:27:41.99
wonderful presentation
of the trumpet shall sound
00:27:42.02\00:27:45.43
and the dead shall be raised.
00:27:45.46\00:27:47.83
And then here it is 11
days after this happened,
00:27:47.86\00:27:52.97
it was April 18 that
this accident happened
00:27:53.00\00:27:55.64
and Caleb is killed.
00:27:55.67\00:27:57.57
And so, when she said,
00:27:57.61\00:27:58.94
"You need to plan
a memorial service."
00:27:58.97\00:28:00.61
All I could think about
was the trumpet shall sound
00:28:00.64\00:28:03.98
and the dead shall be raised.
00:28:04.01\00:28:05.95
So I called Skip,
00:28:05.98\00:28:07.35
called the
trumpeter and two violinists
00:28:07.38\00:28:08.88
and got a lady in the community,
00:28:08.92\00:28:10.42
a professional
cellist to come in.
00:28:10.45\00:28:11.95
And so for the memorial service
00:28:11.99\00:28:15.39
we did this music again.
00:28:15.42\00:28:17.96
Praise God.
00:28:17.99\00:28:19.33
And the Lord was just
so good how He prepared us
00:28:19.36\00:28:22.86
'cause we were
so focused on this.
00:28:22.90\00:28:25.43
And...
00:28:25.47\00:28:26.84
So you chose,
00:28:26.87\00:28:28.20
it was a conscious decision
to do a memorial service
00:28:28.24\00:28:30.01
as opposed to a funeral.
00:28:30.04\00:28:32.51
Well...
00:28:32.54\00:28:33.88
We had a viewing just
before that at the funeral home.
00:28:33.91\00:28:39.48
Okay.
00:28:39.51\00:28:40.95
Which was...
00:28:40.98\00:28:44.69
As a parent you don't know
00:28:44.72\00:28:46.29
what your 23,
24, 25 year old child
00:28:46.32\00:28:50.86
is how they're influencing.
00:28:50.93\00:28:54.50
And it was both
the memorial service
00:28:54.56\00:28:57.87
and right before that
the viewing were packed.
00:28:57.90\00:29:02.80
Well, one of the main reasons
is our daughter in Switzerland,
00:29:02.84\00:29:06.91
I mean, all the
kids were close to Caleb.
00:29:06.94\00:29:10.68
But Kitora had called
even just a few minutes
00:29:10.71\00:29:14.98
when we were
still at the site there
00:29:15.02\00:29:16.48
and she said,
"Mom, whatever you do,
00:29:16.52\00:29:18.82
please don't have him cremated.
00:29:18.85\00:29:22.96
I want to see him."
00:29:22.99\00:29:24.99
And, but they didn't really want
00:29:25.03\00:29:28.80
to have a casket
sitting in the front
00:29:28.83\00:29:30.70
while we were doing the service.
00:29:30.77\00:29:32.10
So we had the viewing
00:29:32.13\00:29:35.50
and the place was packed,
00:29:35.54\00:29:38.54
auto mechanics
filing through there
00:29:38.57\00:29:41.11
and customers
from the restaurant
00:29:41.14\00:29:43.98
where Caleb waited on tables.
00:29:44.05\00:29:46.38
And, anyway, so
then after the viewing
00:29:46.41\00:29:49.38
then the church had a meal
00:29:49.42\00:29:51.05
and people from the
community came in and just ate,
00:29:51.09\00:29:53.22
then we had the
memorial service there.
00:29:53.25\00:29:57.33
And...
00:29:57.36\00:30:00.03
There was...
00:30:00.10\00:30:01.40
Go ahead.
00:30:01.43\00:30:02.76
I was just going to ask
00:30:02.80\00:30:04.13
because what I think
is interesting is that
00:30:04.17\00:30:05.87
though there were
times when you saw,
00:30:05.90\00:30:07.80
perhaps some movement
in his life in directions
00:30:07.84\00:30:09.84
that you would rather have not,
00:30:09.87\00:30:11.97
obviously there was
enough Jesus in there
00:30:12.01\00:30:14.88
that he was sprinkling
00:30:14.91\00:30:16.38
that throughout his
contacts and relationships
00:30:16.41\00:30:19.85
and seasoning
that in those things
00:30:19.88\00:30:22.95
that he was doing,
he worked for NAPA,
00:30:22.98\00:30:24.35
he worked in a restaurant.
00:30:24.39\00:30:25.75
And obviously he was
taking some of that stuff that,
00:30:25.79\00:30:28.36
that you would put it in
him that the Lord had walked him
00:30:28.39\00:30:30.59
through in his growing up
years that hadn't left him
00:30:30.63\00:30:33.86
and there were those
who were seeing that in him.
00:30:33.90\00:30:35.86
Right. Yeah.
00:30:35.90\00:30:37.23
Well, it was about three
weeks after the accident.
00:30:37.30\00:30:41.87
And I met this lady
and in town and she said,
00:30:41.90\00:30:47.11
"You are Caleb
Grindley's mother."
00:30:47.14\00:30:48.58
I said, "Yes."
00:30:48.61\00:30:49.98
And she said,
00:30:50.01\00:30:51.35
"Well, how come
your eyes aren't red
00:30:51.38\00:30:52.71
and you're not
crying depressed?"
00:30:52.75\00:30:54.48
And I said,
00:30:54.52\00:30:56.25
"Because the Bible calls
death a sleep and it says,
00:30:56.28\00:30:58.52
the trumpet will
sound and the dead in Christ
00:30:58.55\00:31:00.89
shall rise first and those,"
00:31:00.96\00:31:02.29
and she and her
mouth dropped open
00:31:02.32\00:31:04.33
when I finished
reading, finished telling her
00:31:04.36\00:31:07.20
that verse about
Jesus coming again.
00:31:07.23\00:31:09.86
I said, "Tell me why
you gave me that reaction?
00:31:09.90\00:31:13.50
And she said,
"Well, on Tuesday night,
00:31:13.54\00:31:15.10
the night before the
accident Caleb came into work
00:31:15.14\00:31:18.97
to wait on tables
00:31:19.01\00:31:20.34
and he wasn't
scheduled for that night
00:31:20.38\00:31:21.91
but he saw us there
00:31:21.94\00:31:23.41
and we would always
ask for him anyway."
00:31:23.45\00:31:25.51
And so he took our
order and got our food,
00:31:25.55\00:31:27.58
he set it on the table.
00:31:27.62\00:31:29.55
And he was
going to eat with him.
00:31:29.58\00:31:31.92
He sat on the table and he said,
00:31:31.95\00:31:33.32
"May I have the
blessing for the food."
00:31:33.36\00:31:35.86
And this is the
customer at the restaurant?
00:31:35.89\00:31:37.23
Yes. And they
went, "Well, sure."
00:31:37.29\00:31:40.00
I mean, it kind of
took him by surprise
00:31:40.06\00:31:41.36
'cause he had
never done that before.
00:31:41.40\00:31:42.96
And so she said, "He prayed
and asked the Lord to bless us
00:31:43.00\00:31:45.67
and to bless our food
and bless our families."
00:31:45.70\00:31:48.07
Just a regular prayer.
00:31:48.10\00:31:49.87
And when he finished,
00:31:49.94\00:31:52.61
the friend that was with me
made some kind of a comment,
00:31:52.64\00:31:56.34
I don't know,
remember the comment was,
00:31:56.38\00:31:59.31
she couldn't remember
the comment but she's a,
00:31:59.35\00:32:00.92
whatever it was Caleb's response
00:32:00.95\00:32:02.62
was the Bible
calls death a sleep
00:32:02.65\00:32:05.32
and says the trumpet will sound
00:32:05.35\00:32:06.69
and the dead in
Christ shall rise first
00:32:06.76\00:32:08.32
and those that remain
would be caught up to meet Him
00:32:08.36\00:32:10.23
in the air and so
comfort one another
00:32:10.26\00:32:11.66
with these words.
00:32:11.69\00:32:13.03
And she said, and you just
said the same thing right now,
00:32:13.06\00:32:14.83
I can't believe it.
00:32:14.83\00:32:16.20
And I said,
00:32:16.23\00:32:17.57
"Well, I really appreciate
you sharing that with me
00:32:17.60\00:32:18.93
'cause that was a
gift, you know, to hear that,
00:32:18.97\00:32:21.67
I mean, that was the
night before his accident.
00:32:21.70\00:32:25.04
Twelve hours. Yeah.
00:32:25.07\00:32:26.74
And so. That is a little gift.
00:32:26.78\00:32:29.84
And then one of the
girls that worked with Caleb
00:32:29.88\00:32:32.65
who also was a
member of our church.
00:32:32.68\00:32:35.18
And he had left the restaurant,
00:32:35.22\00:32:36.69
he went up to their
house and says he was leaving.
00:32:36.75\00:32:40.76
She said,
Caleb's last words to us
00:32:40.82\00:32:42.89
was he said I just
really need to decide
00:32:42.92\00:32:45.96
what I want to do with my life
and I need to get on with it
00:32:45.99\00:32:48.76
and decide what I'm going to do
00:32:48.80\00:32:50.13
because I just want
to make a difference
00:32:50.20\00:32:51.73
in people's life.
00:32:51.77\00:32:53.40
And you know
00:32:53.47\00:32:55.20
and not that having a
large memorial service
00:32:55.24\00:32:59.44
or funeral.
00:32:59.47\00:33:00.88
So I think, in
fact I told the pastor
00:33:00.91\00:33:02.81
who was a good
friend with Caleb,
00:33:02.84\00:33:04.18
I said, "When we
have this service.
00:33:04.25\00:33:05.85
I really don't want the
service to be focused on Caleb.
00:33:05.88\00:33:09.32
Of course, it is 'cause
it's his memorial service."
00:33:09.35\00:33:12.99
But I said, "I
really would like it
00:33:13.02\00:33:14.36
to be an evangelistic series on,
00:33:14.39\00:33:17.26
a sermon on the
state of the dead
00:33:17.33\00:33:20.33
and on the second coming
00:33:20.40\00:33:21.93
because there may be
people from the community
00:33:21.96\00:33:25.07
that are in here
00:33:25.10\00:33:26.43
and that might be
the only opportunity
00:33:26.47\00:33:27.90
they have to hear."
00:33:27.94\00:33:29.60
And what a blessing
00:33:29.64\00:33:33.44
to be able to share
00:33:33.48\00:33:35.94
that because I tell people,
00:33:35.98\00:33:37.31
you know, Jesus is coming again.
00:33:37.35\00:33:39.48
That's not our hope,
it's our blessed assurance.
00:33:39.51\00:33:42.78
Well said, you
have quoted many times
00:33:42.82\00:33:44.85
that obviously Caleb
had picked it up first,
00:33:44.89\00:33:47.36
1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17.
00:33:47.42\00:33:50.29
So that was something
00:33:50.33\00:33:51.66
that sort of kept
you during this time.
00:33:51.69\00:33:53.56
And obviously it
was in Caleb's heart
00:33:53.60\00:33:55.26
to the understanding
that this is a sleep
00:33:55.30\00:33:57.43
and that there is going
00:33:57.50\00:33:58.83
to be a grand
reunion and resurrection.
00:33:58.87\00:34:00.87
Tim, how are
you working your way
00:34:00.94\00:34:02.27
through stuff at
this point in time?
00:34:02.30\00:34:04.84
My reaction was different
than Jamie's in the fact
00:34:04.87\00:34:08.74
that when Jamie
went there to the site,
00:34:08.78\00:34:11.85
of course we're two
different individuals
00:34:11.88\00:34:13.72
even though we
love to be together
00:34:13.75\00:34:15.08
and work together.
00:34:15.12\00:34:16.45
But when I went to the site
00:34:16.48\00:34:20.16
it was finished.
00:34:20.19\00:34:23.73
There was no doubt
in my mind he was dead.
00:34:23.76\00:34:29.00
And it knocks the
breath out of you.
00:34:29.03\00:34:30.73
Yeah.
00:34:30.77\00:34:32.43
But my reaction was God is good.
00:34:32.47\00:34:38.17
After the accident
I want to scream it,
00:34:38.21\00:34:43.81
I want to holler that
00:34:43.85\00:34:45.18
because I thought this,
00:34:45.21\00:34:50.25
I don't mean to minimize
when I say blip in the road,
00:34:50.29\00:34:53.09
bump in the road, okay.
00:34:53.12\00:34:55.12
This is a major event. Oh, sure.
00:34:55.16\00:34:57.19
Yes.
00:34:57.23\00:34:58.56
And major trauma for the family.
00:34:58.59\00:34:59.96
Right. Yes.
00:35:00.06\00:35:01.36
But my statement is what
do I have to complain about.
00:35:01.40\00:35:06.20
This is a major problem,
00:35:06.23\00:35:09.20
this is a major
event but God is so good.
00:35:09.24\00:35:14.71
First of all He
gave us five children
00:35:14.74\00:35:16.85
and we are blessed with that.
00:35:16.88\00:35:19.55
We are blessed
00:35:19.58\00:35:20.92
that we still
have five children,
00:35:20.95\00:35:22.28
like Jamie said one is asleep.
00:35:22.32\00:35:25.55
I'm not in a
position to question
00:35:25.59\00:35:29.72
why this happened.
00:35:29.76\00:35:31.16
Yeah, I did. Why Lord, why, why?
00:35:31.19\00:35:34.30
And I come back and I say,
00:35:34.30\00:35:35.63
I don't see it
from your perspective.
00:35:35.66\00:35:39.07
I accept this as an event,
00:35:39.10\00:35:42.67
we are in the sinful world
00:35:42.70\00:35:44.47
and I just, I say, I
choose to go forward.
00:35:44.51\00:35:48.58
Praise the Lord.
00:35:48.61\00:35:49.94
I choose to say, Lord,
00:35:50.01\00:35:53.11
I accept that this happened,
00:35:53.15\00:35:56.42
I accept Your will.
00:35:56.45\00:36:01.02
Now I just want to be
able to be a positive witness
00:36:01.06\00:36:04.59
to others to say, you
know, the Lord is good.
00:36:04.63\00:36:09.86
You know, in 2005
my father passed away.
00:36:09.90\00:36:13.37
In 2007, my mom passed
away, 2008, his dad passed away.
00:36:13.44\00:36:18.97
And in 2010, his mom was
killed in a car accident,
00:36:19.01\00:36:21.91
tragic in there.
00:36:21.94\00:36:23.28
And then 2012,
00:36:23.35\00:36:24.81
Caleb was killed in an accident.
00:36:24.85\00:36:26.82
And I would have to say
00:36:26.85\00:36:28.52
that for a while
after that even though
00:36:28.55\00:36:33.69
I knew God was in control
and I have all the faith,
00:36:33.76\00:36:37.13
I mean I have much
faith and belief that,
00:36:37.16\00:36:40.20
you know, God
knows what He's doing.
00:36:40.23\00:36:42.30
But there would be times
00:36:42.33\00:36:44.57
if for the next
year or two years,
00:36:44.60\00:36:47.74
it's like if I tried to hold,
00:36:47.77\00:36:49.80
get hold of Tim or
one of our children,
00:36:49.84\00:36:53.14
you know, especially
00:36:53.17\00:36:54.51
the one that was still
living at home at the time.
00:36:54.54\00:36:56.75
And I wouldn't get an answer
00:36:56.81\00:36:58.35
and you know
couldn't hear from him.
00:36:58.38\00:37:00.05
You know, and I just I
called, I said, "Marita."
00:37:00.08\00:37:02.35
Almost panic. Yeah.
00:37:02.38\00:37:03.72
It was hard for me to not have
that anxiety or panic attack,
00:37:03.75\00:37:07.49
I said, you know, just
00:37:07.52\00:37:08.86
if you can't
talk at least text me
00:37:08.89\00:37:10.26
just say, "I'm okay."
00:37:10.29\00:37:11.63
And then, you know,
I wouldn't bother you.
00:37:11.66\00:37:13.43
But it was, it
was a challenge. Yeah.
00:37:13.46\00:37:15.63
A natural response to that.
00:37:15.66\00:37:17.50
Now let me ask you
this because when you have
00:37:17.57\00:37:19.67
this kind of drama
in your life, trauma,
00:37:19.70\00:37:24.47
it tends to do
one of two things.
00:37:24.51\00:37:26.37
My last church I pastored
00:37:26.41\00:37:27.74
I did 117 funerals
in the same church.
00:37:27.78\00:37:32.05
And you see the
spectrum of responses,
00:37:32.08\00:37:34.92
they tend to fall
into two categories,
00:37:34.95\00:37:36.79
there're more subcategories
00:37:36.82\00:37:38.15
but either it
brings you closer to God
00:37:38.19\00:37:41.89
or it pushes some people away.
00:37:41.92\00:37:44.83
And the secondary
response is in marriages
00:37:44.86\00:37:47.10
it can divide the marriage.
00:37:47.13\00:37:49.70
You know, depending on
00:37:49.73\00:37:51.07
because people
grieve very differently.
00:37:51.10\00:37:53.44
You two are admittedly
close, you work together,
00:37:53.50\00:37:56.24
you spend a lot
of time together,
00:37:56.27\00:37:57.61
you like each other's company
but this kind of thing can test
00:37:57.64\00:38:01.64
that kind of relationship,
even the strongest.
00:38:01.68\00:38:04.48
Talk to us a little bit about
how you held on to each other,
00:38:04.51\00:38:10.15
held on to your
sanity and your religion
00:38:10.22\00:38:12.55
and then we can
move into how you turn
00:38:12.59\00:38:13.99
this into a ministry.
00:38:14.02\00:38:15.36
Can you kind of
walk me through that?
00:38:15.39\00:38:16.73
It did not separate us, it did,
00:38:21.06\00:38:24.83
I would say we laugh together,
00:38:24.87\00:38:29.54
we cry together.
00:38:29.57\00:38:30.91
Our time with Caleb,
00:38:34.21\00:38:38.15
when we have our remembrances,
when there's times when you,
00:38:38.18\00:38:41.55
you know, just
naturally it's on your thoughts.
00:38:41.58\00:38:45.89
We laugh.
00:38:45.92\00:38:47.36
You know we laugh
00:38:47.39\00:38:48.72
because Caleb
represented a happy life.
00:38:48.76\00:38:53.19
Caleb represented fun times.
00:38:53.23\00:38:55.26
He was a fun loving young man
00:38:55.30\00:38:59.17
which we dearly miss.
00:38:59.20\00:39:01.60
But I am very thankful
00:39:01.64\00:39:04.04
it has not caused a crisis
00:39:04.07\00:39:09.74
between the two of us.
00:39:09.78\00:39:11.11
Praise the Lord.
00:39:11.15\00:39:14.35
Because we have both
taken so very strongly
00:39:14.38\00:39:19.19
that death is a sleep.
00:39:19.22\00:39:20.89
And, you know, it's
just Caleb is sleeping.
00:39:20.92\00:39:24.63
And you know and I don't
mean to be just repeating
00:39:24.66\00:39:27.73
that over and over again.
00:39:27.76\00:39:29.26
But it is very
comforting to appreciate that.
00:39:29.30\00:39:33.94
And another verse
00:39:33.97\00:39:35.40
that is so helpful, Isaiah 57:1,
00:39:35.44\00:39:40.28
it says that good
people pass away many often
00:39:40.31\00:39:44.51
before their time
and people wonder why.
00:39:44.55\00:39:48.08
They don't consider
that the Lord has laid them
00:39:48.12\00:39:50.39
to rest to spare
them from evil to come.
00:39:50.42\00:39:54.66
And I appreciate that so much
00:39:54.69\00:39:57.43
because you know for people
00:39:57.46\00:40:01.93
in our generation,
00:40:01.96\00:40:03.63
this world is a distraction,
00:40:03.67\00:40:06.13
it's a mess for young people.
00:40:06.17\00:40:11.14
It is a huge, huge
pulling and distraction
00:40:11.17\00:40:14.81
and you know, Satan
can no longer seduce
00:40:14.84\00:40:19.18
my son to go down wrong path.
00:40:19.21\00:40:22.75
He cannot, Satan
has lost this battle.
00:40:22.78\00:40:28.36
And, you know,
the wonderful hope
00:40:28.39\00:40:31.63
and assurance that we have.
00:40:31.66\00:40:33.29
We live on
that. We live on that.
00:40:33.36\00:40:35.43
And you know I
would like to say that,
00:40:35.46\00:40:38.33
their moms that have
come to me and they say,
00:40:38.37\00:40:43.27
you know that
your son loves Jesus
00:40:43.34\00:40:45.91
and you know you'll see him,
00:40:45.94\00:40:47.31
you have the assurance
you're going to see him again.
00:40:47.34\00:40:49.61
But my son committed suicide.
00:40:49.64\00:40:52.01
And you know what a grief
00:40:52.05\00:40:55.88
but my first thought is to tell
00:40:55.92\00:40:58.22
that you know Jesus loved
your child more than you did.
00:40:58.25\00:41:01.69
Amen.
00:41:01.72\00:41:03.06
And Jesus desired His heart
more of an eternal salvation,
00:41:03.09\00:41:08.46
more than you
wanted him to have it.
00:41:08.50\00:41:11.47
You can trust
Jesus with that child.
00:41:11.50\00:41:15.00
You can trust Jesus.
00:41:15.04\00:41:16.44
That is not
something that you have to...
00:41:16.47\00:41:19.07
Yes, you grieve
because you miss him.
00:41:19.11\00:41:20.84
And I can say this
00:41:20.88\00:41:22.78
because I
didn't go through that,
00:41:22.81\00:41:24.15
Caleb didn't to have that,
00:41:24.21\00:41:25.78
that's not been
my experience but...
00:41:25.81\00:41:28.65
So was I. Yeah.
00:41:28.68\00:41:30.05
But we can trust Jesus.
00:41:30.09\00:41:32.39
And as I totally turned
our children to the Lord.
00:41:32.42\00:41:36.99
And I do that every day.
00:41:37.03\00:41:40.26
You know, and I
don't say this lightly
00:41:40.30\00:41:43.93
but if all my children
00:41:44.00\00:41:49.74
had to die or something happened
00:41:49.77\00:41:51.27
and they died,
00:41:51.31\00:41:52.64
if that had to happen
for Jesus to save them,
00:41:52.67\00:41:56.81
I would just have to
trust Jesus with that.
00:41:56.88\00:41:59.51
And here again, I
don't say that lightly.
00:41:59.55\00:42:02.02
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:02.05\00:42:03.39
Jamie, I've got
to say this to you
00:42:03.42\00:42:04.75
because that's a very
spiritually mature way
00:42:04.79\00:42:08.42
to look at the
mystery, the conundrum
00:42:08.46\00:42:11.79
that it sometimes
is life and death.
00:42:11.83\00:42:14.46
Was this something
that occurred to you shortly
00:42:14.46\00:42:17.93
after Caleb's passing
00:42:17.97\00:42:21.14
or did you have
to grow into that?
00:42:21.17\00:42:23.47
I think I had
already, before I came to that,
00:42:23.51\00:42:26.94
I mean losing our
family members like we did.
00:42:26.98\00:42:30.91
And when Tim's mom,
00:42:30.95\00:42:33.05
she was just so
vibrant and full of life,
00:42:33.08\00:42:36.22
I mean her husband
had passed away but she...
00:42:36.25\00:42:40.72
We were just really
having a good time together.
00:42:40.76\00:42:43.83
And we, it was very
difficult when that happened.
00:42:43.89\00:42:49.26
And somehow between her accident
00:42:49.30\00:42:54.37
and in Caleb's I had just,
00:42:54.40\00:43:00.08
I came to the realization
00:43:00.11\00:43:02.14
that they are
sleeping, you know.
00:43:02.18\00:43:04.61
And I don't know, I
don't take any of this lightly
00:43:04.65\00:43:09.45
because there are days,
00:43:09.48\00:43:10.99
I mean I miss Caleb
and it's like I told him,
00:43:11.02\00:43:13.12
it says, I just
feel myself slipping
00:43:13.15\00:43:16.93
or I'm tearing,
I'm, you know, weeping.
00:43:16.96\00:43:20.96
But when I have opportunity
00:43:20.96\00:43:24.13
with something
as a result of this.
00:43:24.17\00:43:27.00
We'd be in town
00:43:27.04\00:43:28.87
and I see a young
man walking along.
00:43:28.90\00:43:31.34
I love this.
00:43:31.37\00:43:32.74
We got to move you to this, too.
00:43:32.77\00:43:34.24
I think this is really great.
00:43:34.28\00:43:35.61
As you turned
this trial into triumph
00:43:35.64\00:43:38.25
for making it a ministry.
00:43:38.28\00:43:39.68
I'm sorry, I cut you off
but I'm just so excited about
00:43:39.71\00:43:41.05
where you're going 'cause
I know where you're heading.
00:43:41.08\00:43:42.42
Yeah. That's really great.
00:43:42.45\00:43:43.79
That's okay.
00:43:43.85\00:43:45.19
But, you know, we
were in Walmart one day
00:43:45.22\00:43:46.82
and this young man
was walking through
00:43:46.86\00:43:49.36
and I stopped and said, "Hey."
00:43:49.39\00:43:51.33
I just and I put my
hand on his shoulders,
00:43:51.36\00:43:52.96
I said, "I know
you don't know me
00:43:52.99\00:43:55.13
but I want to
tell you something."
00:43:55.16\00:43:56.80
And I've got his
full attention and I says,
00:43:56.83\00:43:59.63
"I want you to go
home and tell your mother
00:43:59.67\00:44:02.67
how much you love
her and appreciate her."
00:44:02.70\00:44:05.81
And he said, "Well, yes,
ma'am. Why do you say that?"
00:44:05.84\00:44:09.94
I said, "Because you never know
00:44:09.98\00:44:12.61
when you won't
have each other again."
00:44:12.65\00:44:15.02
And I says, "I lost my son,
00:44:15.05\00:44:18.85
however long it was like a year
before that in auto accident.
00:44:18.89\00:44:22.82
And he was so loving and
kind and he'd always call me
00:44:22.86\00:44:24.93
and tell me how
much he loved me,
00:44:24.96\00:44:26.29
I was one cool mama, he
would text me or whatever.
00:44:26.33\00:44:28.20
It's like, oh, I've got
to save that text, you know.
00:44:28.23\00:44:30.63
And just you know very special.
00:44:30.67\00:44:32.80
And they'll always say,
00:44:32.83\00:44:35.70
"Oh, I'm so sorry
that you lost your son."
00:44:35.74\00:44:37.41
And I said, "But it's okay
00:44:37.47\00:44:39.07
because the Bible
calls death a sleep
00:44:39.11\00:44:41.38
and says the trumpet will
sound and the dead in Christ
00:44:41.41\00:44:43.51
shall rise first."
00:44:43.55\00:44:44.88
And I just go through
that and I tell him that,
00:44:44.91\00:44:48.98
you know, Isaiah 57:1,
00:44:49.02\00:44:51.92
when good people
passed away and, anyway,
00:44:51.95\00:44:54.86
so I just go through that
00:44:54.89\00:44:56.22
and that's what I
like to share with others.
00:44:56.26\00:44:57.99
Great, great.
00:44:58.03\00:44:59.36
I want to just stop
you there for a second
00:44:59.39\00:45:00.83
because you've turned
00:45:00.86\00:45:02.16
this actually into
an ongoing ministry.
00:45:02.20\00:45:04.33
You've done this several times.
00:45:04.37\00:45:05.77
And somewhat some
kind of miraculous,
00:45:05.80\00:45:07.87
God blessed results.
00:45:07.90\00:45:09.67
So walk us through
some of that stuff.
00:45:09.70\00:45:11.64
Well, another time at Walmart,
00:45:11.67\00:45:14.48
I was looking for
something in the toy section
00:45:14.51\00:45:17.65
and I saw a couple
of young men in there.
00:45:17.68\00:45:20.15
And I, they were
helping me and then I says,
00:45:20.22\00:45:23.62
"Well, it's okay, I
can do without that."
00:45:23.69\00:45:26.96
But I want to put one
hand on this one shoulder,
00:45:26.99\00:45:29.16
one hand this one and I said,
"I want to tell you something.
00:45:29.19\00:45:33.73
It's really important
00:45:33.80\00:45:35.10
that every day you
brothers tell your mother
00:45:35.13\00:45:37.67
how much you love
her and appreciate her."
00:45:37.70\00:45:40.50
And I said,
"Because you never know
00:45:40.54\00:45:43.87
when you won't have each other."
00:45:43.91\00:45:45.84
And I said, "My son was killed
00:45:45.87\00:45:47.24
in a car accident five years ago
00:45:47.28\00:45:49.21
and he was just
always telling me
00:45:49.24\00:45:51.15
how much he loved me."
00:45:51.18\00:45:52.51
And they said,
00:45:52.55\00:45:53.88
"You really need to
talk to our mother."
00:45:53.92\00:45:56.28
I said, "Why is that?"
00:45:56.32\00:45:57.65
And they said,
"Because our older brother
00:45:57.69\00:46:00.32
was killed in Afghanistan
00:46:00.39\00:46:02.22
and mom's having a
really hard time with it."
00:46:02.26\00:46:08.36
In fact there she
goes, walking down there.
00:46:08.40\00:46:10.60
And so anyway at some point
she came walking up and I did,
00:46:10.67\00:46:14.17
I told her that
and she hugged me,
00:46:14.24\00:46:17.21
we hugged each other.
00:46:17.24\00:46:19.41
And I have not had
a lot of communication
00:46:19.44\00:46:22.58
I have attempted
but I did meet her son.
00:46:22.61\00:46:26.28
Excuse me, at the
gym that we joined saw
00:46:26.31\00:46:31.02
the son that I was talking to.
00:46:31.05\00:46:33.02
And I said, "How
is your mother doing?"
00:46:33.05\00:46:36.09
And he said,
"She's still struggling."
00:46:36.12\00:46:38.73
And I said, "You
know I looked at the video
00:46:38.76\00:46:40.70
that she told me
about your brother
00:46:40.73\00:46:42.80
that was killed
and some of the things
00:46:42.83\00:46:45.03
that she'd shared."
00:46:45.07\00:46:46.70
And I said,
00:46:46.74\00:46:48.07
"Take her on a
date, just you and her,
00:46:48.10\00:46:50.37
go on dates with her.
00:46:50.41\00:46:52.07
And as you're taking her out
of the car walking into place,"
00:46:52.11\00:46:54.44
I said, "Hold her
hand as she walked long."
00:46:54.48\00:46:56.24
She had mentioned that the son
00:46:56.28\00:46:57.95
that was killed
would hold her hand
00:46:57.98\00:47:00.35
as they would walk into a place.
00:47:00.38\00:47:02.58
And anyway he
says, "Do you think
00:47:02.62\00:47:04.69
that would be
part of her healing
00:47:04.72\00:47:06.05
that would help her?"
00:47:06.09\00:47:07.42
I said, "I really do."
00:47:07.49\00:47:08.82
And so anyway
progressively as I've seen her,
00:47:08.86\00:47:11.13
that's what they
were, they were doing that.
00:47:11.16\00:47:14.93
And, you know, I want to back up
00:47:14.96\00:47:18.33
when we were getting
ready for the memorial service.
00:47:18.37\00:47:23.91
Tim asked me, "What
are you going to wear
00:47:23.94\00:47:25.84
to the memorial service?"
00:47:25.87\00:47:27.71
And I hadn't even
thought about that, I said,
00:47:27.74\00:47:29.51
"Well, I tell you
what, if you wear your tux,
00:47:29.54\00:47:32.78
I'll wear the dress
00:47:32.81\00:47:34.15
that we wore to our
two daughter's weddings."
00:47:34.22\00:47:36.79
I said, "Caleb won't be having
a wedding here obviously."
00:47:36.82\00:47:40.26
But I said, "The next thing
he knows is we'll be joining
00:47:40.29\00:47:44.03
at the marriage
ceremony of the Lamb
00:47:44.06\00:47:46.29
when we get to heaven.
00:47:46.33\00:47:47.76
And so we'll
just dress like that."
00:47:47.76\00:47:49.90
Praise the Lord.
00:47:49.93\00:47:51.27
So, I just,
00:47:51.30\00:47:54.54
I am thankful
00:47:54.57\00:47:58.24
for the hope that we have,
00:47:58.27\00:47:59.61
Jesus is coming again
that's not my hope, our hope,
00:47:59.64\00:48:04.11
it's our blessed assurance.
00:48:04.18\00:48:05.55
Amen. Amen. Amen.
00:48:05.58\00:48:07.78
Can I say one
thing and the fact that,
00:48:07.82\00:48:09.98
you know, we may sound positive
00:48:10.02\00:48:13.72
and we are, we try to be.
00:48:13.79\00:48:16.39
And we do have our
struggles, we do have our times.
00:48:16.42\00:48:19.59
And there's things
00:48:19.63\00:48:20.96
that are automatically
going to set off emotions.
00:48:20.96\00:48:26.10
But we choose to be positive.
00:48:26.13\00:48:32.81
We can be negative
sometime, we can be down,
00:48:32.84\00:48:35.34
something can trigger it
but we turn around and say,
00:48:35.38\00:48:39.18
"But we have this
wonderful promise.
00:48:39.21\00:48:42.38
We go back to the Bible and say,
00:48:42.42\00:48:44.85
"We're looking
forward to Revelation,
00:48:44.89\00:48:47.82
looking for the Lord to come
and then we all meet together."
00:48:47.86\00:48:51.56
Praise the Lord.
And I will say this.
00:48:51.59\00:48:54.00
We had a little
family reunion last week
00:48:54.00\00:48:56.40
with all of our
children joining together.
00:48:56.43\00:49:00.27
And we talked very briefly
00:49:00.30\00:49:04.44
because this experience
00:49:04.47\00:49:07.64
that I'm
sharing is my experience
00:49:07.68\00:49:10.01
and somewhat Caleb,
00:49:10.08\00:49:11.91
I mean the way we
have handled the grief.
00:49:11.95\00:49:15.52
Some of our children,
00:49:15.55\00:49:17.02
they are still, they understand,
00:49:17.05\00:49:20.49
they know that Caleb is sleeping
00:49:20.52\00:49:22.06
and that Jesus is coming again.
00:49:22.09\00:49:24.09
But they struggle
with it, you know.
00:49:24.16\00:49:29.03
It's been hard. It's been hard.
00:49:29.06\00:49:30.77
And at the memorial service
there was Caleb graduated
00:49:30.80\00:49:33.64
from Mount Pisgah Academy, 2005.
00:49:33.67\00:49:36.47
There were...
00:49:36.50\00:49:37.84
Somebody flew,
classmates from California,
00:49:37.87\00:49:40.48
the West Coast to North Carolina
00:49:40.51\00:49:42.34
to be at this memorial service.
00:49:42.38\00:49:43.75
Wow.
00:49:43.78\00:49:45.11
And these kids,
00:49:45.15\00:49:46.48
they were like six or seven kids
00:49:46.51\00:49:47.85
from his class that were there.
00:49:47.88\00:49:49.22
And they said, "Caleb
was the guy in our class
00:49:49.25\00:49:51.89
that just kept
the class together,
00:49:51.92\00:49:54.86
he was just kind of a,
00:49:54.89\00:49:56.29
you know, that
kind of a person."
00:49:56.32\00:49:58.23
And so, we, Caleb
00:49:58.26\00:50:04.37
was a very important
person in our family.
00:50:04.40\00:50:07.00
Praise the Lord.
00:50:07.04\00:50:08.37
You know, I'm happy,
00:50:08.40\00:50:10.47
as I listen to your
narrative to your story.
00:50:10.51\00:50:12.74
One, because your children
are scattered so far, Canada,
00:50:12.77\00:50:16.04
Switzerland, other places,
00:50:16.08\00:50:17.81
that since you have
to be alone and together
00:50:17.85\00:50:20.92
that you have
developed this positive outlook.
00:50:20.95\00:50:24.15
And not just positive outlook,
you've taken God at His word.
00:50:24.19\00:50:27.99
The Bible says, "The
Lord Himself shall descend
00:50:28.02\00:50:29.92
from heaven with a shout,
00:50:29.99\00:50:31.33
with the voice of the archangel,
00:50:31.36\00:50:32.69
trump of God, the dead
in Christ will rise first.
00:50:32.73\00:50:34.36
Then which are
alive and remain,"
00:50:34.36\00:50:36.03
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
00:50:36.06\00:50:39.37
So you're buying
what you're selling.
00:50:39.40\00:50:43.00
You follow what I'm saying?
00:50:43.04\00:50:44.37
In other words, you believe
00:50:44.41\00:50:45.74
that which comes
out of your mouth.
00:50:45.77\00:50:47.11
And when you buy
what you sell, it does,
00:50:47.14\00:50:50.08
it ends with wherefore comfort
one another with these words.
00:50:50.11\00:50:54.55
So they are a comfort
when you really believe
00:50:54.58\00:50:58.02
what he's just
said in that text.
00:50:58.05\00:51:00.56
And I see that you buy that.
00:51:00.59\00:51:02.09
How do you...
00:51:02.12\00:51:03.73
It's hard for somebody,
00:51:03.76\00:51:06.49
it's easier for
us because we do,
00:51:06.53\00:51:08.86
we buy that what the Bible says.
00:51:08.90\00:51:12.40
Yes. Yes. And that's wonderful.
00:51:12.43\00:51:14.50
The Bible is
presenting a wonderful hope of,
00:51:14.54\00:51:19.21
wonderful promise to us.
00:51:19.24\00:51:21.88
I am so glad that I have that
00:51:21.91\00:51:25.95
because it would be a
hard thing to struggle
00:51:25.98\00:51:28.72
through the loss of our
son if we didn't have that.
00:51:28.75\00:51:33.52
And if he was so
grounded in that at that time,
00:51:33.56\00:51:38.29
God was so good
00:51:38.33\00:51:39.66
because He brought
this whole thing about,
00:51:39.69\00:51:44.10
the special music that we had.
00:51:44.13\00:51:46.17
And we were so focused on that.
00:51:46.20\00:51:48.60
And I will have to say
every April since then we,
00:51:48.64\00:51:53.71
I get people
together, different musicians,
00:51:53.74\00:51:56.38
but we do the
trumpets shall sound
00:51:56.41\00:51:57.85
and the dead shall be raised
00:51:57.88\00:51:59.21
with the
instruments and we just did it,
00:51:59.25\00:52:01.58
April the 28th this year.
00:52:01.62\00:52:02.95
Praise God. Praise God.
00:52:02.98\00:52:04.72
I am happy for the
smile that is on your faces
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because it bespeaks the
Christ that is in your heart.
00:52:08.62\00:52:11.89
And you could not
have one without the other.
00:52:11.93\00:52:14.76
We've got to go
to a newsbreak now.
00:52:14.83\00:52:17.97
Some information we
want to share with you,
00:52:18.00\00:52:20.30
then we'll come back
with a closing thought.
00:52:20.34\00:52:22.94