Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY018022A
|
00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:11 Hello, friends, welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:13 My name is John Lomacang, 01:14 but you probably know 01:16 that if you're part of the 3ABN family, 01:17 but if you're not, 01:19 welcome to this wonderful network 01:20 that God has ordained and brought into existence. 01:23 And to my immediate left is Jason Bradley. 01:24 Good to have you here, Jason. 01:26 Good to be here on the 3ABN Today set. 01:28 That's right. 01:29 And now this is the first 3ABN Today 01:31 that I'm co-hosting. 01:32 That's right, you're usually on Dare to Dream Network. 01:33 That's right. 01:35 Well, good to have you here today. 01:36 Good to be here. 01:38 And we have an exciting program for you. 01:39 You may be wondering where your life is headed 01:41 and what the Lord has in store for you. 01:43 Well, this program will encourage you 01:46 as you're trying to plan your future, 01:47 you might know 01:49 that the Lord also has a plan for you 01:50 and it will work out beautifully 01:52 if you simply put your life in His hand. 01:54 But before we go any further, 01:56 I want to thank you for your prayers 01:58 and your financial support of this network 02:01 as we continue going and growing, 02:02 getting ready for Jesus to come. 02:04 And if you're watching, maybe from your phone, 02:07 if you're not watching from your phone, 02:08 you might want to go ahead and get that 3ABN app, 02:10 know that app. 02:11 Oh, yeah. 02:13 The free 3ABN app, make sure you download that. 02:16 That's right, from your Android or from your Apple device, 02:19 you go to the Play Store or to the Apple Store 02:21 and download 3ABN app 02:22 and you can watch 3ABN anywhere, 02:24 that's the miracle of modern technology. 02:27 But before we go into our program, 02:29 we always have music, and Sandra Entermann, 02:32 who is not a stranger to 3ABN 02:34 is going to bless us with a song entitled 02:36 "Remember Me". 02:55 Remember me 02:59 In a Bible cracked and faded 03:03 By the years 03:08 Remember me 03:12 In a sanctuary filled with silent 03:17 Prayer 03:22 And age to age 03:25 And heart to heart 03:29 Bound by grace and peace 03:36 Child of wonder 03:39 Child of God 03:42 I've remembered you 03:48 Remember me 04:04 Remember me 04:09 When the color of a sunset 04:12 Fills the sky 04:18 Remember me 04:22 When you pray and tears of joy fall 04:25 From your eyes 04:31 And age to age 04:35 And heart to heart 04:39 Bound by grace and peace 04:45 Child of wonder Child of God 04:52 I've remembered you 04:58 Remember me 05:14 Remember me 05:19 When the children leave 05:21 Their Sabbath school with smiles 05:28 Remember me 05:32 When they're old enough to teach 05:35 Old enough to preach 05:39 Old enough to leave 05:44 And age to age 05:47 And heart to heart 05:51 Bound by grace and peace 05:58 Child of wonder Child of God 06:04 I've remembered you 06:11 Remember me 06:14 Age to age And heart to heart 06:17 Child of wonder 06:19 Child of God 06:24 Remember me 06:27 Age to age And heart to heart 06:31 Child of wonder 06:32 Child of God 06:38 Remember me 07:06 Thank you so much, ain't that a wonderful song? 07:08 Absolutely, she has such a beautiful voice. 07:10 I know, very easy to listen to and then the trio, 07:13 first time I've heard it that way. 07:14 Well, it's time to meet our guest today 07:16 and I know him very well. 07:18 He's a colleague of mine here in the Illinois Conference. 07:21 Pastor Lowe, so good to have you here today. 07:23 Blessed to be here. Blessed to be here. 07:25 Yes. Oh! 07:27 You guys are stretching across the golf here. 07:30 Another brother in ministry. Yeah. 07:33 And those who are listening 07:36 maybe on radio and watching on television, 07:39 first of all, tell us where you're from 07:40 and what you do right now, 07:42 kind of just a synopsis of your present. 07:45 I think I gave it away a moment ago, 07:46 but just kind of let us know. 07:48 Right, I'm currently employed with the Illinois Conference, 07:51 I pastor four church district in the central Chicago area. 07:55 Okay. 07:56 And being there, this is my 10th year actually. 07:59 In Illinois? Mm-hmm. 08:00 Okay, good to have you. 08:02 We always see you at workers meeting, 08:03 especially the January one. 08:05 Yeah. Do you come to... 08:06 I think sometime at camp Akita. 08:08 Awesome, awesome, and always a fun. 08:11 Good to have. 08:12 You and your drone, and your high technology. 08:17 Yeah, he's got all the gadgets, that's for sure. 08:18 Amazing, amazing, just amazing. 08:21 I'm a gadgetarian too, I must admit that. 08:22 A gadgetarian, I like that. 08:24 But today we're going to peek into your life. 08:26 Now, I'm looking at our outline here 08:27 and I'm really excited, 08:29 there are certain things that I had forgotten, 08:32 but take us back to your earlier days, 08:35 because you have a ministry now, 08:36 we'll talk about in just a few moments. 08:38 But take us back to the beginning 08:40 because everyone has a beginning, 08:42 not just being born but where were you raised, 08:45 and tell us about 08:46 some of your family background? 08:48 Sure. 08:49 I was born in Guyana, South America 08:51 and I left South America '76, '77, 08:54 migrated to New York. 08:55 I always joke about it 08:57 from the tropical jungle to the concrete jungle. 09:00 Smack in the middle of Brooklyn in a blizzard. 09:05 Knew nothing about city life, knew nothing about urban life, 09:08 myself, my sister and my mom. 09:11 Mom was working four jobs to make ends meet. 09:15 She was studying at the same time. 09:17 And there we are in the East Flatbush area 09:20 and, you know, you have that waiting period 09:22 before you start school to get all the paper work in place, 09:25 so for maybe a month and a half 09:27 I'm just sitting at the window looking out, 09:30 you know, 09:31 at all of this madness I call it, 09:35 you know, the culture shock of East Flatbush Brooklyn. 09:39 And in that month and a half time, 09:42 I'm trying to figure out as a kid of ten years old, 09:44 you know, how am I going to cope 09:46 with what I'm seeing out there, 09:48 because what I'm seeing each day was terrifying. 09:51 I mean, the junior high school was just across the street 09:53 from our building, 09:54 project whatever you want to call it, 09:56 and yeah, I was seeing stuff daily, 09:59 you know, I was seeing violence daily. 10:01 And just trying to fervor the mental strength 10:06 to be able to get there and deal with that. 10:09 And back in 1976 knowing 10:11 what the city was like at that time 10:12 because I was living in New York City, 10:15 I was just graduating from high school at that time 10:18 and I know the city was rough. 10:19 I mean those were the days of the crack bottles 10:21 and the vials on the ground, 10:23 and lot of drugs and lot of violence 10:25 in New York. 10:27 It's quite a different place now. 10:28 Absolutely. 10:29 Praise the Lord for that, 10:31 it's kind of one of the fastest trendiest places. 10:32 Brooklyn is becoming the upscale place 10:34 in the United States. 10:35 Yes, yes. 10:36 And, Jason, you lived in Brooklyn too. 10:38 I lived in Manhattan but I've been to Brooklyn, 10:40 and Brooklyn is, it looks amazing now. 10:43 I have seen it back, well, not back in '76 10:46 but a little bit later on and I've seen it recently. 10:51 Before and the after, 10:53 so here you are waiting to go to, 10:54 waiting to go to junior high school 10:56 or to start school, how did that turn out? 10:59 Well, it started with PS 26, 11:02 I think that would be elementary. 11:04 I started in the fifth grade. Okay. 11:06 Starting in fifth grade and first few years 11:09 was quite an adjustment. 11:11 My grandma was a Adventist lay preacher. 11:16 So I knew Adventism, 11:18 you know, my grandma took me 11:19 and was raising me from I was about a year 11:22 and a half or two years old. 11:23 My mom migrated to the US, that was about '69 11:26 or there about '68, '69, so I was raised by my grandma. 11:31 Strong, conservative, 11:33 fundamental Adventists lay preacher 11:36 and a strong person. 11:38 A matriarch, a queen mother, 11:41 you know, we say lot of strong Afrocentric values, 11:44 and so there's a lot that she instilled, 11:48 but there's a lot even within that nurture 11:51 that I would later struggle with as far as knowing 11:54 and understanding God for who He is in character. 11:58 And not just being obedient, and not just being afraid, 12:01 and not just desiring salvation so I don't get burned up, 12:06 you know, this kind of stuff. 12:08 So I get into junior high school, sorry, 12:11 get into elementary school 12:13 and that's the kind of an adjustment period. 12:15 I'm a good kid, shy, 12:20 strong values and principles, 12:22 I'm still walking down the streets of Brooklyn 12:25 saying good morning to people. 12:27 You know, 'cause that's what I did in Guyana 12:29 in South America, you know. 12:30 We were raised with that kind of Southern courtesy. 12:32 Right. 12:33 You know, "Hello, sir, good morning, ma'am," 12:34 The brother said, "What? 12:36 Do I know you?" 12:37 No, but I did that for a while until I learned to adjust. 12:40 And through all of that observing 12:42 a lot of victimization, 12:44 you know, observing kids getting beat up, 12:47 observing, you know, you're just out for lunch, 12:50 you're walking going somewhere and a group of guys, 12:53 you know, grab you, take your money, 12:55 your lunch or whatever it is. 12:57 You know, this kind of stuff or and later on, 12:59 you know, material thing, 13:00 they take your coat, they take your hat, 13:01 they take your sneakers, you know, this type of stuff. 13:05 And so by the time I got to junior high school, 13:07 I'm trying to figure ways to cope through that, 13:11 and I'm realizing that it's kind of like, 13:13 it's a survival game, 13:15 and it's a kill or be killed kind of game. 13:18 I have no brothers, I have no cousins. 13:21 My dad, I met my dad about age 15 at that time, 13:25 so that nurture was absent at that time. 13:28 And so I figured, listen, I got to fight, 13:32 you know, I have to learn to fight. 13:33 Learn to defend yourself. 13:35 Yeah, I have to learn to defend myself, 13:36 I have to cope, 13:37 but it wasn't just a physical fight, 13:39 because I'm a small person and I was even smaller then. 13:42 So it had to be a mental fight, it had to be a mental game, 13:45 so I had to figure out how to deal with this culture. 13:49 How to engage it, be part of it, 13:51 yet not be part of it, 13:53 you know, that kind of stuff, and then my whole experience 13:56 is of reaching to a point 13:59 where I attain some success in at least learning 14:03 the survival game. 14:04 So I'm now street wise, but then once I'm there 14:07 and I'm at a secure place, 14:09 I start to get sucked in to the other side 14:12 which I never really, 14:14 where I never really intended to go. 14:15 So if I'm hearing you correctly, 14:18 you're learning how to walk differently, 14:20 stop saying, 14:21 good morning ma'am, good morning sir, 14:23 trying to have that tough exterior, 14:25 at least look tougher. 14:26 And kind of keep your mind 14:28 focused looking around you walking far, 14:30 because a lot of people don't understand 14:31 that in big cities and, Jay, you may know this. 14:33 In big cities even when I go back home, 14:37 you know, we walk to the corner, 14:39 we make wide turns, 14:40 you know, walk to close to a building, 14:42 not that that's native to any particular city 14:44 but that's true, Chicago, Detroit, 14:46 New York, L.A. 14:47 The street sense, man. 14:49 You got to have street sense, so when we come out here, 14:51 do you know we're in the Midwest now. 14:53 And this is rough, I mean, what does that mean? 14:56 But you are in Chicago 14:57 so some of that helped you for the city 14:59 that you're now missing. 15:00 Absolutely. Absolutely. 15:02 This is also about God's resourcefulness. 15:04 That's right. 15:05 Another amazing thing that we need to remember, 15:07 those of us 15:09 who are really struggling to know God, 15:10 and to feel His presence 15:12 if we're going through a hard time, 15:15 whatever it is that you're going 15:16 through understand our God is so resourceful, 15:19 He waste nothing. 15:21 So even those experiences that you have had 15:24 or that you may be having, 15:26 God is going to use them to His glory 15:27 and for your salvation. 15:29 But you talked about, 15:30 you were going in a different direction 15:31 changing the way you lived, 15:33 kind of learning the texture of the culture 15:36 of the streets of Brooklyn. 15:38 But you kind of swung too far to the other side, 15:40 talk about that? 15:42 I did. I did. I did. 15:44 Things worked well up to about age eight... 15:47 Sorry up to about age 13. 15:49 I'm actually a charter member of the Brooklyn Faith 15:53 Seventh-day Adventist Church. 15:54 That is now on Church Avenue on 56th street. 15:57 I was charter member of that church 15:59 from about age 10, 11, 16:01 used to be in the second street in a basement 16:03 when that church was a brand Sabbath school 16:04 with eight members. 16:06 My sister and I, and six other people 16:08 basically were the core embryo of that church. 16:10 And when you say brand Sabbath school, 16:13 some of our audience might not know what that is. 16:15 That's kind of when you just begin 16:16 a fledgling church 16:17 and you're meeting to study your Bible together 16:20 and you don't really have 16:21 any established full recognition 16:23 as an authorized church, 16:24 kind of just the nucleus of a church in growth. 16:27 Yes, correct, correct. 16:28 So we're there and that was based on a promise 16:32 that my mom made to my grandma. 16:35 My grandma after we migrated, yes, 16:37 my grandma tells my mom 16:38 who was at that time was not an Adventist, 16:41 was a God fearing person 16:42 but not a church going person. 16:44 Grandma says to my mom, look, 16:46 I've raised these sort of as the Seventh-day Adventist, 16:48 and I'm asking you to do the same, 16:51 whether you desire to be convicted in practicing 16:54 that faith or not, 16:55 please raise him the Seventh-day Adventist. 16:57 So my mom starts asking around forking her work, 16:59 you know, do you know an Adventist Church, 17:00 do you know an Adventist Church, 17:01 da-da, da-da. 17:03 Somebody said, you know, actually, 17:04 you're on 52nd Street, 17:05 there's a sister from Brooklyn temple 17:07 that has a little mission over there, da-da, da-da. 17:09 And so my mom starts sending us, 17:12 you know, just over there, it's just across the street. 17:15 I was a happy man because I was enjoying my, 17:17 you know, I didn't see a television 17:20 until I came to the US. 17:21 Believe it or not, 17:23 I did not see a television until 1977. 17:26 So I grew up on the radio, 17:29 like someone in the 40's or the 50's like full radio. 17:32 So anyway, I'm here and Saturday morning cartoons. 17:37 Oh, gosh! Man, that was my thing. 17:39 Scooby-Doo. 17:40 And so now here's my mom talking about, 17:42 yeah, yeah Spider Man and all, yeah. 17:45 And Conjunction Function 17:47 and even the educational stuff I can show you. 17:51 So my mom is like you're gonna go to church, 17:54 you know, you guys. 17:55 Ah! 17:56 You got to be kidding me, so, you know, all right, 17:58 I'm accustomed to it, so we start going to church, 18:00 and then that little mission transitions 18:02 into a larger plans, Clarkson Avenue, 18:04 and then from Clarkson Avenue to Church Avenue. 18:06 And right about each 13, I remember one morning, 18:09 I was laying in bed, 18:10 I had already started to slowly make the transition 18:14 to the whole street survival thing. 18:18 Sat up, it was my birthday, 13th birthday, and my mom said, 18:22 "Son, it's 9:30, you need to get dressed." 18:26 And I said, "Yeah." 18:28 She came back 15, it's 9:45, you need to get dressed, 18:31 get up, get ready for church. 18:32 I said, "I'm not going." 18:34 "What do you mean you're not going?" 18:36 I said, "I'm not going." She said, "Son, why?" 18:40 I said, "It's my birthday." 18:42 Well, better reason for you to go 18:43 and give God praise for, 18:44 you know, sparing your life to see another year. 18:47 So I said, "Mom, I ask you all the time 18:50 when you're going to let me make my own decisions. 18:53 You told me, you start let me make my own decisions 18:55 when I'm 13, 18:57 because that will be the beginning of my manhood. 18:58 I'm 13, I want to go." 19:00 You thought you were grown at that point. 19:01 Yo, I won't go back to no church. 19:03 You know, now my mom, 19:04 we had an interesting relationship. 19:07 My mom was the complete opposite 19:09 of my grandma. 19:10 My grandma was, you know, strong on the right. 19:13 Enforcer. Yeah, yeah. 19:15 My mom was very gentle, soft spoken, very loving, 19:18 very patient. 19:19 And I think my mom was also afraid, 19:22 she sensed that transition happening, 19:24 and I think she was afraid if she pushed or bent that, 19:28 you know, rod too hard, it would break. 19:30 I would be even more distant than I was, 19:33 so she didn't want to press it. 19:35 My mom said, "Okay, son, I'll give you, tell you what, 19:38 don't worry about Sabbath school, 19:40 you have to come to Sabbath school 19:42 just get some rest 19:43 and, you know, come at 11 for divine hour. 19:47 And she started to pull the door and I said, 19:48 "I'm not coming." 19:50 And she said, "I'll see you in church." 19:53 As she pulled the bedroom door and she left, never went back. 19:57 Never went back 19:58 within a committed cyclical practice 20:02 of visiting church over the Sabbath, 20:03 though I ended up 20:05 back in church for many other reasons. 20:07 Did you have like one foot in, one foot out? 20:09 Well, that's what it was. 20:11 I had already started carrying a pistol, 20:13 carrying a knife at 13 already. 20:15 Wow! 20:17 I had already... 20:18 Well, wasn't smoking or anything like that as yet, 20:21 but the arm thing started with hanging 20:24 with the older guys in the neighborhood 20:26 and trying to gain favor and trust with them. 20:29 At 12, at 13 I looked like 10. 20:32 At 15 I looked like 12, at 20, I looked like 15, 20:36 you know, I always had, 20:37 all is gray and everything has changed my appearance, 20:39 but I always had a baby face. 20:41 So the older guys on the block, 20:43 they recognized that and took advantage of it. 20:47 So whenever 20:48 we would go anywhere as a group, 20:49 I would be the one that would tuck the pistol, 20:52 or tuck the blade or whatever it was. 20:53 Because they didn't expect you to get searched. 20:56 I wouldn't, and even if I did, I would be out the next day. 21:00 Because you're minor. Yeah. 21:01 There were times 21:03 when I didn't tugged, when I tugged two. 21:04 So you can imagine 21:06 this little kid got two firearms on me 21:09 at a block party or a house party, 21:11 wherever it was that we went. 21:12 Well, I know that term, block party. 21:14 Or could even be just a park, you know. 21:17 And then when things 21:18 would become heated so to speak, 21:22 it would be a funny sight to see 21:24 two or three guys pulling on my clothing. 21:27 And trying to take that yo, shorty, give me that, 21:29 yo, shorty, let me hold that, give me that, you know. 21:31 And they are trying to retrieve the pistol off from me 21:34 to go do whatever it is that they have to do. 21:36 So that transition was already slowly developing 21:40 and as Jason asked, 21:42 it was a mental struggle for me 21:45 to be sitting in church 21:46 and, you know, all of that so... 21:48 'Cause your mind was at someplace else. 21:50 What people don't understand is, 21:51 when you start molding your mind, 21:54 it's going to take your body in a different direction. 21:56 The mind controls the body, 21:58 the body doesn't control the mind. 22:00 So when you start making intellectual choices, 22:02 those are also choices that develop you 22:04 as far as your physical responses, 22:06 your emotional responses. 22:08 The way you think about something, 22:10 once you start making intellectual decisions, 22:12 I'm not going, I'm not going back. 22:14 Once you stop planting that thought in your mind, 22:17 the body starts getting a different attitude. 22:19 And you don't miss it 22:21 because you're taken all together 22:23 and you start molding in a different direction, 22:25 and your mind takes that all, 22:27 your mind takes your body there. 22:28 So by the time you start to carry a pistol, 22:31 or two pistols, or a knife, or if I'm understanding here, 22:35 did you ever get involved in using any kind of drugs 22:37 or any kind of substances? 22:39 Primarily marijuana. Okay. 22:41 Yeah, I never really wanted to mess 22:43 with hard drugs so to speak, 22:45 alcohol is prevalent in our culture, 22:48 in Caribbean culture, South American culture, 22:50 so alcohol always played a part to some extent, 22:52 but it was primarily marijuana 22:54 and then music Old English Eight-Hundred, 22:57 you guys are bashing me terribly. 22:59 No, right. 23:00 Because back then was if, 23:01 you know, they used to call it the 40. 23:03 The 40 ounce. 40 ounce a beer. 23:05 It was a 40 ounce and I don't know 23:08 if I can say those words on camera though, 23:11 and narcotics, okay, weed, you know, 40 ounce and weed. 23:14 That's the kind of life 23:15 you had that's where the Lord saw you. 23:16 Yes, yes. 23:18 At that point I'm not doing that independently, 23:20 I'm only doing 23:22 that like in association with friends. 23:24 So I would go to church periodically 23:27 by my mom's invitation to appease her, 23:30 especially if I got in trouble, 23:32 if I got arrested 23:34 or if I got a complaint of some sort. 23:37 To appease my mom, you know, I would go to church. 23:41 The other interesting point about this whole experience 23:46 as we look at Adventism and look at church life, 23:49 there are people who, when they see this, 23:53 they knew me, they'll be like, "No, he made all of that up." 23:57 I remember him, there's no way, 24:00 all of that could have been going on. 24:02 And let me tell you, there are dozens of kids, 24:06 many kids 24:08 who are in a Seventh-day Adventist church and culture 24:10 and are living that kind of double life 24:13 in the inner city 24:14 because, especially, 24:16 if they were nurtured to be courteous and respectful 24:18 which I was, so it was... 24:22 I never became rude to adults or elders, 24:27 I was always still courteous and kind to people 24:29 who were older than me and respectful to them. 24:31 But it was this kind of double life 24:33 that I was living and... 24:35 Turn it off, turn it on. Yes, yes, yes. 24:36 I can identify what that 24:38 'cause that was the same way I was raised to, 24:40 you know, be a Adventist and go to church 24:42 and all that stuff, but my mind wasn't there. 24:45 I was one foot in one foot out for a long time as well. 24:48 So when I was in the street, 24:49 it's almost best illustration I can give you, 24:52 it's like being drafted into the military. 24:55 The streets would be the military, 24:57 would be a military enrolment, I have a uniform. 25:00 And survival is all a part of it. 25:01 Yes, I have a uniform that I put on 25:03 that I wore every day that I went out there. 25:05 Sheepskin coat. Oh, yeah. 25:08 Sheepskin hat, whatever leather hat, 25:10 and the bombers, 25:11 certain tight pants, Adidas, 25:13 they were Pumas, 25:15 certain walk and certain talk, 25:17 and then as we culturally transition 25:20 and more and more West Indians started 25:22 to migrate to Brooklyn. 25:23 Then of course, by the mid 80s I transitioned 25:26 to a whole Caribbean culture lifestyle, 25:28 there was a Rastafarian thing. 25:29 And, you know, those type clothing and... 25:31 Now you have a little bit 25:32 of Jamaican background also, don't you? 25:34 Guyanese. Oh, Guyanese. 25:35 Okay, all right. Yes, yes, Guyanese. 25:37 So the Rastafarian 25:38 because, you know, in Brooklyn, 25:40 you know, Jamaican culture is very strong. 25:41 Very prevalent, yes. 25:43 And then you also, 25:44 you hear the reggae music, and Rastafaria, 25:46 all these terms, 25:47 which is kind of like substitutes for Christ. 25:51 Did you ever get involved in that...? 25:52 Very much so. 25:54 You got involved in that kind of blasphemy. 25:55 Very much so, before Rastafarianism, 25:58 my first exposure to that type of life 26:00 was through a group called the Five Percenters. 26:02 I remember that. 26:03 Yeah, you hear Ivor, Dwayne Lemon, 26:08 if I'm saying his name correct, you know, those brothers, 26:10 I hear their testimonies and I could hear 26:12 that they also had exposure to all of that also. 26:14 So I became a Five Percenter, 26:17 adopted an Islamic name and I was searching, 26:20 you know, until a friend pulled me aside 26:22 one day and explained to me that he is Muslim. 26:26 And he said, you know, if you're seeking Allah, 26:29 man you ain't gonna find him here, 26:30 you know, if you really want to know about Islam, 26:32 you know, come to the mosque. 26:33 You know, my dad will help you to learn, 26:36 and he started to tell me more about Islam 26:39 than what I was learning as a Five Percenter 26:40 which basically was the militant right arm 26:44 of the Nation of Islam. 26:46 So it's alleged that Louis Farrakhan 26:49 was the one that started the movement 26:51 and then pulled himself out of it 26:52 in somewhere with everybody. 26:54 The Five Percenters were extremely violent. 26:56 So it was kind of like 26:58 a Black Panther movement of the nation of Islam. 27:03 So at this point in your life, did you have an emptiness, 27:07 were you looking to fill a void at that time, 27:10 is that why you were searching, you were looking at drugs, 27:14 you were looking at, you know, the Nation of Islam, 27:16 you were looking at the Five Percenters. 27:18 You were looking at all these different things, 27:19 where you were searching 27:21 but were you trying to fill a void? 27:24 It was insecurity, if there was that void was insecurity, 27:27 that void was how am I going to survive 27:31 and I had been introduced to God as I said, 27:33 so I believed in the divine creator 27:35 to some extent. 27:37 I believed there was a God that was present in my life. 27:39 What I couldn't grasp clearly through Adventism 27:42 were all the fundamentals and the doctrines, 27:44 and what all of that or how all of that could help me 27:47 to be an individual that could survive. 27:50 So we're dealing with going to church and learning 27:53 about the Pathfinders, 27:55 which is something I regret today, 27:57 but then I strongly resisted and there were elders 28:02 in the church that try to, 28:03 you know, kind of guide me in that direction. 28:06 I remember having conversation with my mom, look, 28:09 I can't walk down the street with a suit. 28:11 I can't be in those, that's my language back then, 28:13 I can't be walking down the street with a Bible, Ma. 28:16 I can't be walking down a street with a suit, 28:17 I can't be walking down a street with no crazy green, 28:20 yellow looking uniform, and what is that. 28:22 You just know I ain't wearing that, you know, of course, 28:24 and so on and so forth. 28:26 And it was this refusal to associate myself 28:29 with anything religious, 28:30 for the fear of the labeling and what that would cause, 28:34 it would taint my street reputation 28:36 that I had now supposedly developed. 28:39 Now you got soft. 28:40 Yes, I would be considered soft. 28:42 So as Jason was saying, it was just putting on 28:47 and putting off of that uniform, 28:49 so if when I was home, all that thug stuff, 28:52 thug tug stuff, I kind of left it out, 28:56 if I were visiting church, I left it out. 28:58 Once I got on the number 46 bus and once I was standing outside 29:03 my school or wherever, then I was that person again. 29:08 And the number 46 bus, 29:09 I mean, the 26 is ours, the 44, the 25. 29:12 It seems like New Yorkers always remember the bus 29:15 or the subway that they took or that avenue. 29:17 Or PS, the school they went to. Yeah. 29:20 But eventually you had to leave New York, 29:22 tell us what happened? 29:24 Wow. You moved to Miami? 29:26 That's a long fast forward 29:29 so that happened in the '90s. 29:33 I was then... 29:35 Let me back up just a little bit 29:36 so we don't have to too large a gap. 29:40 By 15, 16, I'm heavily into street life, 29:45 that's high school years. 29:48 I'm going to a school in Queens 29:49 because I could not go to Wingate 29:51 which was my zone school, and I could not go to Erasmus 29:54 because of rival gang association you would say. 29:59 Interestingly we didn't have gangs back then, 30:00 didn't call them gangs, just call it like a posse, 30:04 you know, it was just varied neighborhood groups 30:07 and we actually went by the number of our street. 30:12 So you had the 50s posse, the 90s posse, the 40s posse, 30:17 you know, 21st posse, 31st posse, 30:20 and all these groups... 30:21 Very territorial. 30:23 Yes, yes, yes, all having to do 30:24 with controlled trade or trafficking, 30:27 and you didn't encroached each other's perimeter 30:30 because you do your trafficking in your area, 30:33 and so on and so forth so... 30:35 That's drug trafficking to be specific. 30:37 Yes, so I go through all of that incidents 30:41 with stabbings and then one incident 30:44 that involved the shooting of someone 30:46 and I ended up having to go back to South America 30:49 for my own safety. 30:51 Again extended family, 30:53 and all the people watching this show, 30:55 they'll be like, "No." 30:57 I didn't know that's why he went back, 30:59 that was the reason. 31:01 So this is the tell all version. 31:02 Yes, yes, yes, indeed so to avoid prosecution 31:06 and to avoid being killed, 31:10 being sought after and killed by the rival group, 31:14 my mom and another family members 31:16 worked together 31:17 and got me to return to South America for a year. 31:20 I didn't kill the person just to make it clear. 31:22 I just was involved in that shooting. 31:26 I'm in South America for almost a year 31:29 and then I return about '85 31:34 and it did help, 31:36 you know, while I was there nothing happened 31:39 so to speak within the environment itself 31:41 that made me say, 31:42 "Well, you know, I don't want to be here." 31:43 I had great fun as most kids 31:45 when they get deported or whatever. 31:46 You know, I just smoked more weed, drank more alcohol, 31:51 we're at Rastafarian cousins party, 31:53 you know, did all of that wonderful stuff. 31:55 But I had a run in with a cousin 31:58 who let me know the value of what I had in the US 32:02 and what I was taking for granted. 32:04 She was brilliant 32:06 and she had scholarships to Romania, 32:08 scholarship to Russia, 32:10 she was about maybe 18 at that age, 32:13 she turned all of them down 32:14 because she wanted to come to the west. 32:16 And so she was crying one day, you know, as we were talking, 32:18 she said "What I would give to have an opportunity 32:22 to have the opportunity you had to go to the US, 32:25 you know, because she wants to study law. 32:28 And, you know, I was trying to comfort her 32:30 and as I was trying to comfort her and say, 32:33 you know, you'll be all right, you know, things will work out. 32:35 I'm thinking to myself, you know, I'm here 32:37 and my main objective right now, 32:41 my main concern is, 32:43 when I get back to Brooklyn, how I'm gonna find bullets, 32:47 you know, or how I'm gonna find a bigger pistol, 32:50 or how I'm gonna find 32:52 the most lucrative yet deviant, 32:57 yet safe means of living. 33:01 I want to make money, 33:02 I want to establish myself, right? 33:05 I know it's going to be something illicit, 33:07 but I don't want it to be something illicit 33:09 that's going to kill me. 33:10 So I want to be wise about it and I'm going 33:13 through that kind of cunningness, 33:15 and it said to me, 33:16 you know, you're wasting your life, man, 33:18 you know, that's not what you're here for. 33:20 So when I came back, had a renewed spirit, 33:23 got into college and got my first degree started 33:27 to work in aviation, first degree was... 33:29 That's in New York? Yes. 33:31 First degree was in the aeronautical engineering 33:33 at the College of Aeronautics, 33:36 this thing is called Vaughn College now. 33:37 I was a bright kid, 33:39 and then working in aviation at one point, 33:42 I end up having to be trance, 33:45 I had to get out of New York long story short. 33:47 Because I got tangled up within doing illicit things 33:51 while in aviation, and it got to the point 33:54 where there was a federal probe, 33:56 a friend got shot, 33:57 he was apprehended in the parking lot 33:59 by some of the group that's part of that trait. 34:03 They shot him in both his knees and left him on the ground 34:06 in the parking lot, 34:07 and then police looking at that as a strange incident 34:11 decided to get a warrant 34:14 while he was in hospital, questioned and raid his home, 34:16 found paraphernalia, found money 34:17 and then put pressure on him. 34:19 So then he started to tell the police 34:21 the details of who else was involved 34:23 and whatever and so on and so forth. 34:25 Another friend had fled to Jamaica 34:27 and then called me 34:28 maybe three days later and said, look, 34:30 this is what's going on 34:31 and if you know what's good for you, 34:32 get out of New York, go back to South America, 34:35 I'm here in Jamaica and, da-da, da-da... 34:37 Well, I didn't leave the country 34:39 but it just so happened, a transfer was available, 34:42 so I transferred with my company to Florida. 34:45 To evade and to get away from all the tension 34:48 that was building up in Brooklyn at that time 34:50 and to save my life. 34:52 So when you think 34:53 about Brooklyn you think about, "Wow! 34:56 That's where I could have ended up." 34:58 And fast forwarding in the story 35:00 because we look at you now as you said, 35:03 and you save yourself, similar to, 35:06 you know, Jason and myself. 35:08 I know, I survived a lot of the street life in New York, 35:10 could've been shot, 35:12 held up at gunpoint more than once, 35:13 fights with gangs, 35:16 and we look back at it now on this set 35:20 and we say God had another plan. 35:22 Absolutely. God is amazing. 35:24 Indeed, indeed. 35:25 Thank God, He doesn't leave us the way He finds us, you know. 35:28 So much could have happened 35:30 and the devil wanted to take you out in your sins, 35:33 and he was trying to keep you in that lifestyle 35:35 and he was constantly pulling at you 35:37 and put you in so many situations 35:42 where that could have been it. 35:44 Absolutely. 35:45 Now in the interest of time, what I want to do 35:47 because I know we're going to let our audience know 35:49 that you can invite Pastor Lowe to give his, the full version. 35:54 We kind of leave little gaps in there so people can say, 35:57 but I want to find out what happened then, 35:59 kind of activate them to invite you 36:00 because we'll let you know at the end 36:02 the program 36:03 how to get in touch with Pastor Lowe 36:04 because it's not possible to cover all of the story 36:06 in one avenue of the program. 36:09 But you're in Miami now, and you're working there, 36:12 tell us about your eventual return to God, 36:15 and then your marriage? 36:17 How did the Lord lead there? 36:18 And then we've got to get to the ministry 36:20 that you have and find out what's going on there. 36:23 Sure, by the time I reached Miami, 36:26 I had a second degree. 36:28 I was now working in Aviation Management, 36:31 while in Miami I also got into a professional wrongdoing 36:36 so to speak. 36:37 And one incident failed terribly almost, 36:42 and I probably would have still been in jail, God knows. 36:46 But it failed through, it didn't work. 36:48 I said, today God caused it not to work, 36:51 and as a result the person who was at the head 36:55 of that trade transaction whatever, 36:59 you know, was a good friend of mine 37:00 from New York 37:02 that I had actually trained while in New York. 37:05 How to get into this lifestyle 37:07 and, you know, how to be more successful in it 37:10 and so forth, how to, 37:11 you know, I used to ride motorcycles. 37:13 I taught him how to ride 37:14 and bought him his first motorcycle 37:16 and all those ninja bikes and all, you know. 37:18 I remember that. The whole fast lane stuff. 37:20 So he actually turned out to be someone very successful 37:23 within the narcotics trade, 37:25 and he pulled me back in once I got down to Miami. 37:29 And it failed, the effort of trade failed. 37:33 Praise the Lord. 37:35 He said to me, look, I remember the call, he said, 37:37 "You know, Dezi as they called me 37:38 in the street Dezi. 37:40 If I didn't know you the way I know you, 37:42 you know, you'd be dead, 37:43 because, you know, 37:45 you'd have to put $80,000 in my hand, 37:47 you know, by this afternoon or else. 37:49 So that and a few other skirmishes 37:52 I may say, 37:54 you know, started to turn my head towards Christ. 37:58 And I had an incident where I lost a friend. 38:03 She was a partner actually, 38:04 she didn't die but she ended up 38:07 having severe mental breakdowns, 38:11 and had to be institutionalized for a short period of time. 38:15 And I remember 38:16 my first time reaching out to God 38:19 was in effort for God to reach her. 38:22 I remember one night 38:24 she was like really having it bad 38:26 and hearing voices in the wall and she'd strip herself 38:29 and ran in the streets and, 38:31 you know, and she was succumbing 38:32 to all of this stress. 38:34 She was a medical student, she was brilliant also. 38:37 And I remember her saying, "I don't know what to do." 38:41 And I said, "We have to pray," 38:44 because she sensed the devil 38:45 trying to take her life and she said, 38:47 "I don't know how to pray." 38:48 And then I said to her, 38:50 you know, "In my mind I know how to pray, 38:54 I don't pray, you know, but... 38:55 But you've at least heard about it, 38:57 you have been to church, 38:58 you have some kind of idea of... 39:00 And I prayed for and saw God act 39:04 within that whole experience then, 39:06 then I started to question God's existence after that. 39:10 You know, I started to ask what happened the other day 39:13 when I prayed and that you. 39:14 So are you really that intimate in my life, 39:18 you know, and I challenge God, 39:19 I remember when I was driving to work, 39:21 I said, listen, I'm confused about all of this stuff. 39:24 If you are real, 39:25 if you are more than just a God that created this world. 39:29 If you are a God 39:30 that actually desires an intimate relationship, 39:32 and you know me and you care about 39:34 what I think of, what I do daily, then let... 39:37 And I was about to ask for some kind of sign, 39:40 you know, I never even got there. 39:43 It's like the Holy Spirit grabbed hold of me. 39:47 Brother, I can't explain, 39:49 I know everyone 39:50 has that experience in life at least once. 39:51 The epiphany. 39:53 Yes, and I just remember crying, 39:55 you know, I was on Biscayne Boulevard driving to work 39:58 and I was just, 40:00 tears just pouring down my face. 40:01 This sense of joy, guilt lifted from my heart, 40:04 because remember, 40:06 I had all of that past behind me, 40:08 and it was this sense of through the Holy Spirit God 40:10 telling me, you belong to Me. 40:13 I have forgiven you for all those choices you made, 40:15 all those wrong choices, all those things you did, 40:18 go and sin no more. 40:19 You know, just follow Me, and that began the transition, 40:23 I met my wife shortly after that. 40:26 I was going to say that, 40:28 you know, it's such a blessing when you come to the Lord, 40:30 how you have that true inner peace. 40:33 You know, the world says they have joy, and peace, 40:36 and all this stuff, 40:37 but the world can't offer you peace, 40:39 the world doesn't give you peace, 40:40 the world doesn't give you true joy. 40:42 But when you come to the Lord, 40:43 you experience that true inner peace 40:46 and God forgiving you of your sins. 40:49 Yes. Amen. 40:50 How did you become a pastor? Ooh! 40:55 Met my wife in '93. 40:59 Once like, and I was baptized 41:01 into the Adventist Church about that time also. 41:05 Okay. 41:06 And once I... 41:08 Let me back up so, I was raised an Adventist, 41:10 left the church at 13, I think I was baptized at ten. 41:13 Okay. 41:15 Dr. Clifford Jones, now president 41:18 of the Lake Region Conference there in, 41:20 a former mentor from New York also. 41:24 But because I left the church and I had been engaged 41:27 in so many other belief systems. 41:29 At age 26, 41:32 I returned to the church through a revival, 41:33 through that same young lady I was praying for. 41:36 And it's a complete different experience. 41:42 The doctrines, the diet, the fundamental culture, 41:48 for the first time in my life, 41:49 I could see through all of that, 41:51 because I was well familiar with all of that, 41:53 but it's like, all of that 41:56 I couldn't clearly see Jesus through it. 41:59 You know, or I couldn't see His divine love, 42:01 I couldn't see His grace, I couldn't see His forgiveness. 42:04 What I could clearly see was structure, 42:06 a fundamental environment and obedience 42:09 but this stuff about His grace, His forgiveness, 42:12 His mercy, His righteousness, 42:14 I couldn't clearly see that. 42:15 So now, I'm in the Seventh-day Adventist Church by choice, 42:19 not because I was raised... 42:21 Oh, your grandmother. Right, and all of that. 42:23 And what I wanted to do was to 42:28 if I had the ability at that time, 42:31 if someone had said to me, "Come with me to Timbuktu, 42:36 you know, come with me to Calcutta, 42:38 come with me to Bangkok or come with me 42:41 to the jungles of Guyana or Brazil. 42:43 And just live there 42:45 and dedicate your life to telling people, 42:47 I would have done it immediately. 42:49 You know, the opportunity just didn't surface 42:51 but what I want to do in my heart 42:53 was to dedicate my life to serving God, 42:55 for all that He had done for me 42:58 and for all that He had forgiven, 43:01 I wanted to give back. 43:03 So I immersed myself into a prison ministry, 43:06 just as I came in the church. 43:09 Was myself, a wonderful brother by the name of Brother Perrin, 43:13 God bless his heart. 43:14 Took me under his wing, we went down Miami, 43:17 we built up homeless 43:20 feeding programs to feed the poor. 43:23 Fed sometimes in excess of 300-400 people 43:27 of downtown Miami. 43:29 And those are the things that I took joy in, 43:31 and then going into the prison and the juvenile prisons 43:34 and so forth and just sharing with people. 43:36 My own testimony like I'm sharing right now. 43:38 And so that opened the door for you to eventually become 43:40 a pastor later on. 43:42 Now, how long have you been in ministry now roughly? 43:45 I graduated somewhere in 2002 and I started work 43:49 with Illinois Conference in 2008. 43:51 Okay, all right. Wow! 43:53 So when I... 43:56 While in Miami, 43:57 people would always commend me and say, 44:00 "You really love ministry work, you should become a pastor." 44:04 I had no desire to be a pastor, but I kept hearing it, 44:08 hearing it, hearing it and my mom encouraged me 44:10 to pray about it. 44:11 And then in '99, 44:12 I left Florida to start seminary studies. 44:15 Remember, my prior background was aviation. 44:19 Tell us about your ministry, FREEZ, 44:23 what does that stand for? 44:24 FREEZ, well, FREEZ is in its embryonic stage, 44:26 so there's no website currently. 44:30 As I shared, I pastor a four church district, 44:33 I have four churches and I am new 44:35 to that fourth church district, this is my second year. 44:38 Okay. 44:39 So I'm still in the developing process 44:43 as far as church leadership, 44:45 and you as a pastor you understand, 44:49 you come into a new church, 44:50 there are things that you have to address, 44:52 as we call enrich, and you have to deal 44:55 with the needs of the congregation. 44:57 So I'm still very much immersed in enrich work 45:02 within my churches. 45:03 However, what I have envisioned as soon as that balance 45:07 is out is establishing 45:09 and building on this ministry, FREEZ, 45:11 the acronym is Friends Reaching out Embracing, 45:17 Empowering Generation Z. 45:20 The Z generation. 45:21 So familiarizing myself more and more 45:26 with different facets of the community, 45:30 the basketball leagues, I really love. 45:33 And one of my churches I have an elder... 45:36 Two of my churches I have elders 45:37 that are leaders within the leagues. 45:39 And it is just amazing to go out 45:42 and see these kids involved 45:44 and, you know, these are kids that are not church going, 45:47 many of them. 45:49 But they join with church going kids 45:51 to participate in the league and where they witness too, 45:56 and through that relationship 45:58 some of them do come into the church, 46:00 but there are other facets that I'm looking at also. 46:04 As I get the time to working with law enforcement, 46:08 primarily and working with anti-gang units 46:12 and building relationship 46:14 with youth within the impoverished community, 46:17 those who are at risk. 46:19 Because that's also what I did for 15 years working 46:22 with the state of Michigan, 46:24 so I hope to build 46:25 that into a full blown ministry in the future. 46:27 Which is great, that's great. 46:28 Because you're pouring into the community, 46:31 you know, it sounds to me like if your church was gone 46:35 or your ministry was gone, they would notice. 46:38 You know, your community would notice. 46:41 Should be. And that's how it should be. 46:42 It should be, absolutely. 46:44 Is there an age limit for the basketball team? 46:46 Oh, no. No, listen. Bring Jason, we've got him. 46:49 I am not a baller, right, let me confess. 46:52 When I was growing up in Brooklyn, I got it... 46:55 'cause I was shorter they said and you have some short guys 46:58 that are skilled, but most of them are not, 47:00 and so I got frustrated, 47:01 and I would just like kick the ball 47:03 and then go on the side with the guys 47:05 who were throwing dice 47:07 while other guys were playing ball or whatever. 47:09 Cee-lo and all that. Yeah. 47:10 So I didn't have patience. 47:11 But the Lord brought you through a lot. 47:13 I didn't have patience for playing basketball, 47:16 but anyway, I saw some kids, we had the league playoff 47:21 in central Chicago there two weeks ago. 47:25 And as young as I saw this one kid, 47:28 he was about eight years old. 47:30 And it was just amazing to see 47:32 how this kid was moving on the court. 47:35 Yeah, there I think one of them that was at least five or six, 47:39 so no, you start early 47:40 all the way up to collegiate age. 47:43 It's an awesome experience, 47:45 I encourage any anyone in an urban community 47:47 that's part of a church, 47:49 that's not connected to league, try to connect to one. 47:51 Well, I want to point out for those 47:52 who may be in an urban environment 47:53 and what Pastor Lowe is talking about, 47:55 is that was what kept 47:57 the church together in Brooklyn, 47:58 in Bethel where I went to, we connected with the community 48:01 through sports, through basketball. 48:03 And in some churches depending on where you are, 48:05 some people might say, 48:06 "Well, you know, that's competitive sports, 48:08 we saw it as ministry, 48:10 because these young people 48:11 are going to be in the local community centers, 48:13 they are going to be in the gym, 48:15 and the community centers opened up 48:16 to keep them off the streets. 48:19 So when we establish programs, 48:21 we had a parameter at our church at Bethel, 48:23 you know, if you were not a member of the church, 48:25 you had to come to church certain amount of times 48:28 to be on the team. 48:29 So the guys that were not Adventists, 48:31 were not attending church, they had to be there, 48:34 else they didn't play on the team. 48:36 And so that's kind 48:37 of one of the outreaches of Friends 48:40 Reaching out Empowering... 48:44 Embracing, Empowering... 48:46 Embracing, Empowering the Generation Z. 48:48 Yup, yup, yup. 48:49 Law enforcement as I said is the other complement. 48:51 I had that opportunity in Miami to work with law enforcement. 48:56 There are lot of police officers 48:57 that want to help churches. 48:59 They see the value in it, 49:00 even those who are not church going, 49:03 they do see the value in it. 49:04 And getting them involved and getting them to be active 49:07 in reaching out to the children in your community is an asset, 49:11 getting them to build that relationship. 49:13 You recognize the term FREEZ, that, we inner city kids, 49:17 when we hear that, that's something bad, 49:18 as the cop pointed, got at you. 49:20 But this is FREEZ for the right purpose, 49:22 for the right reason. 49:24 I like that because somebody says FREEZ, 49:26 in your sense, it mean stop in your tracks 49:28 and go in a different direction. 49:30 Because in the inner city, 49:31 the word freeze is a word you don't want to hear. 49:33 Right. Especially, young black men. 49:36 And, but if you look back on your life 49:37 and I know that you probably caught 49:39 this is all the things you went through in New York, 49:42 the Lord brought you out of a pretty much a garden 49:44 of Eden setting, not that Guyana was perfect, 49:48 but brought you out of a very laid back community. 49:52 Planted you out in the middle of a city 49:54 that honed your mind to now deal 49:57 with where you're living. 49:59 See, so you know and understand the culture in the big cities, 50:03 Chicago is a very challenging city, 50:06 is that an understatement? 50:07 Oh, no. Not at all. 50:09 So on your day-by-day basis, because I know up in Chicago, 50:11 I mean, when we went to church in the cities, 50:14 we lock the doors of our car, 50:16 you know, the church was locked, 50:18 the sound system was locked. 50:20 You know, everything in a church 50:21 was on a lock. 50:23 How is it in the city now? 50:24 In ministry is it still challenging? 50:26 Three of my churches are in urban... 50:29 Sorry, a suburban setting. Okay. 50:31 One is in an urban setting, 50:32 that's the New Heights Church in Markham, 50:35 but I recall, I did my internship at Shiloh. 50:39 And while working at Shiloh as a seminary pastor. 50:44 Going door to door 50:46 within that community, Michigan Avenue, 50:48 you know, the whole area there. 50:49 Oh, yeah. 50:51 When I would greet residents, 50:53 they opened their door and start to talk to them, 50:56 they say, "Where you say you're from?" 50:58 Such and such and such in the Charlotte Church, 51:01 "You came here by yourself? 51:03 How do you got up here?" I say, "Yeah, I came here." 51:05 All the way up here, 51:07 you know, somebody on the 8th, 10th, floor 51:08 would have, you know, "Nobody stopped?" 51:09 "No." 51:11 "You ain't scared." No. 51:12 Since you came out of Brooklyn. 51:14 It's second nature, it was second nature, 51:17 working for the state in Michigan, 51:19 I had clients that would tell me, 51:21 you know, Mr. Lowe don't come around here at 9 o'clock, 51:24 don't come right here after sunset. 51:27 I would still show up, I need you to sign this, 51:29 you know, we need to talk about this, 51:30 you got a court data, you don't know, 51:32 I need to let you know, you know, whatever. 51:33 And they would always react with surprise, but once again, 51:36 I have no anxiety for going anywhere. 51:40 That's an amazing story. 51:42 You know, there are those if you're watching the program 51:43 and listening that may want to get in touch 51:45 with Pastor Lowe, 51:46 and at this following 51:48 email address Deslo@SBCGlobal.net. 51:54 That's Deslo@SBCGlobal.net. 51:58 Send him an email there and invite him to your church 52:01 or your community, 52:02 because his story is much larger than 52:04 we can cover in a short time here 52:05 on the program. 52:07 And I'm looking forward to hearing 52:08 the expanded version, maybe at pastors' meetings 52:10 or have you come down 52:11 and share our story, or maybe invite us up, 52:12 so we can see 52:14 what it's like there in the city, 52:15 where God has called you to minister. 52:17 We're going to take a short newsbreak 52:19 and after that we'll come back with a few closing thoughts. |
Revised 2018-03-29