I want to spend my life
00:00:01.56\00:00:07.64
Mending broken people
00:00:07.67\00:00:12.57
I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, friends,
welcome to 3ABN Today.
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My name is John Lomacang,
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but you probably know
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that if you're
part of the 3ABN family,
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but if you're not,
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welcome to this
wonderful network
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that God has ordained
and brought into existence.
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And to my immediate
left is Jason Bradley.
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Good to have you here, Jason.
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Good to be here on
the 3ABN Today set.
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That's right.
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And now this is
the first 3ABN Today
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that I'm co-hosting.
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That's right, you're usually
on Dare to Dream Network.
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That's right.
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Well, good to
have you here today.
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Good to be here.
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And we have an
exciting program for you.
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You may be wondering
where your life is headed
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and what the Lord
has in store for you.
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Well, this
program will encourage you
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as you're trying
to plan your future,
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you might know
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that the Lord
also has a plan for you
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and it will work out beautifully
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if you simply put
your life in His hand.
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But before we go any further,
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I want to thank
you for your prayers
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and your financial
support of this network
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as we continue
going and growing,
00:02:01.12\00:02:02.58
getting ready for Jesus to come.
00:02:02.62\00:02:04.45
And if you're
watching, maybe from your phone,
00:02:04.49\00:02:07.22
if you're not
watching from your phone,
00:02:07.26\00:02:08.66
you might want to go
ahead and get that 3ABN app,
00:02:08.69\00:02:10.33
know that app.
00:02:10.36\00:02:11.69
Oh, yeah.
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The free 3ABN app,
make sure you download that.
00:02:13.09\00:02:16.23
That's right, from your Android
or from your Apple device,
00:02:16.26\00:02:19.13
you go to the Play
Store or to the Apple Store
00:02:19.17\00:02:21.14
and download 3ABN app
00:02:21.17\00:02:22.54
and you can watch 3ABN anywhere,
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that's the miracle
of modern technology.
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But before we go
into our program,
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we always have
music, and Sandra Entermann,
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who is not a stranger to 3ABN
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is going to bless
us with a song entitled
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"Remember Me".
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Remember me
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In a Bible cracked and faded
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By the years
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Remember me
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In a sanctuary
filled with silent
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Prayer
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And age to age
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And heart to heart
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Bound by grace and peace
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Child of wonder
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Child of God
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I've remembered you
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Remember me
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Remember me
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When the color of a sunset
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Fills the sky
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Remember me
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When you pray
and tears of joy fall
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From your eyes
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And age to age
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And heart to heart
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Bound by grace and peace
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Child of wonder Child of God
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I've remembered you
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Remember me
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Remember me
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When the children leave
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Their Sabbath school with smiles
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Remember me
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When they're old enough to teach
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Old enough to preach
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Old enough to leave
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And age to age
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And heart to heart
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Bound by grace and peace
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Child of wonder Child of God
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I've remembered you
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Remember me
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Age to age And heart to heart
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Child of wonder
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Child of God
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Remember me
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Age to age And heart to heart
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Child of wonder
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Child of God
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Remember me
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Thank you so much,
ain't that a wonderful song?
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Absolutely, she has
such a beautiful voice.
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I know, very easy to
listen to and then the trio,
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first time I've
heard it that way.
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Well, it's time to
meet our guest today
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and I know him very well.
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He's a colleague of mine
here in the Illinois Conference.
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Pastor Lowe, so good
to have you here today.
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Blessed to be
here. Blessed to be here.
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Yes. Oh!
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You guys are
stretching across the golf here.
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Another brother
in ministry. Yeah.
00:07:30.48\00:07:33.78
And those who are listening
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maybe on radio and
watching on television,
00:07:36.52\00:07:38.99
first of all, tell
us where you're from
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and what you do right now,
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kind of just a
synopsis of your present.
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I think I gave it
away a moment ago,
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but just kind of let us know.
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Right, I'm currently employed
with the Illinois Conference,
00:07:48.80\00:07:51.33
I pastor four church district
in the central Chicago area.
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Okay.
00:07:55.37\00:07:56.71
And being there, this
is my 10th year actually.
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In Illinois? Mm-hmm.
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Okay, good to have you.
00:08:00.71\00:08:02.04
We always see you
at workers meeting,
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especially the January one.
00:08:03.78\00:08:05.18
Yeah. Do you come to...
00:08:05.21\00:08:06.55
I think sometime at camp Akita.
00:08:06.58\00:08:08.85
Awesome,
awesome, and always a fun.
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Good to have.
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You and your drone,
and your high technology.
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Yeah, he's got all the
gadgets, that's for sure.
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Amazing, amazing, just amazing.
00:08:18.39\00:08:21.10
I'm a gadgetarian
too, I must admit that.
00:08:21.13\00:08:22.86
A gadgetarian, I like that.
00:08:22.90\00:08:24.23
But today we're going
to peek into your life.
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Now, I'm looking
at our outline here
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and I'm really excited,
00:08:27.94\00:08:29.27
there are certain
things that I had forgotten,
00:08:29.30\00:08:32.14
but take us back
to your earlier days,
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because you have a ministry now,
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we'll talk about
in just a few moments.
00:08:36.54\00:08:38.11
But take us
back to the beginning
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because
everyone has a beginning,
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not just being born
but where were you raised,
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and tell us about
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some of your family background?
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Sure.
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I was born in
Guyana, South America
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and I left South
America '76, '77,
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migrated to New York.
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I always joke about it
00:08:55.93\00:08:57.27
from the tropical
jungle to the concrete jungle.
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Smack in the middle of
Brooklyn in a blizzard.
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Knew nothing about city life,
knew nothing about urban life,
00:09:05.07\00:09:08.74
myself, my sister and my mom.
00:09:08.78\00:09:11.68
Mom was working four
jobs to make ends meet.
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She was studying
at the same time.
00:09:15.12\00:09:17.55
And there we are in
the East Flatbush area
00:09:17.59\00:09:20.39
and, you know, you
have that waiting period
00:09:20.42\00:09:22.66
before you start school to
get all the paper work in place,
00:09:22.69\00:09:25.73
so for maybe a month and a half
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I'm just sitting at
the window looking out,
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you know,
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at all of this
madness I call it,
00:09:31.37\00:09:35.70
you know, the culture
shock of East Flatbush Brooklyn.
00:09:35.74\00:09:39.64
And in that
month and a half time,
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I'm trying to figure out
as a kid of ten years old,
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you know, how am I going to cope
00:09:44.75\00:09:46.82
with what I'm seeing out there,
00:09:46.85\00:09:48.18
because what I'm seeing
each day was terrifying.
00:09:48.22\00:09:51.25
I mean, the junior high school
was just across the street
00:09:51.29\00:09:53.19
from our building,
00:09:53.22\00:09:54.62
project whatever
you want to call it,
00:09:54.66\00:09:56.36
and yeah, I was
seeing stuff daily,
00:09:56.39\00:09:59.43
you know, I was
seeing violence daily.
00:09:59.46\00:10:01.90
And just trying to
fervor the mental strength
00:10:01.93\00:10:06.17
to be able to get
there and deal with that.
00:10:06.20\00:10:09.20
And back in 1976 knowing
00:10:09.24\00:10:11.41
what the city
was like at that time
00:10:11.44\00:10:12.87
because I was
living in New York City,
00:10:12.91\00:10:15.74
I was just graduating
from high school at that time
00:10:15.78\00:10:18.45
and I know the city was rough.
00:10:18.48\00:10:19.85
I mean those were the
days of the crack bottles
00:10:19.88\00:10:21.48
and the vials on the ground,
00:10:21.52\00:10:23.72
and lot of drugs
and lot of violence
00:10:23.75\00:10:25.75
in New York.
00:10:25.79\00:10:27.12
It's quite a
different place now.
00:10:27.16\00:10:28.49
Absolutely.
00:10:28.52\00:10:29.86
Praise the Lord for that,
00:10:29.89\00:10:31.23
it's kind of one of the
fastest trendiest places.
00:10:31.26\00:10:32.63
Brooklyn is
becoming the upscale place
00:10:32.66\00:10:34.03
in the United States.
00:10:34.06\00:10:35.40
Yes, yes.
00:10:35.43\00:10:36.77
And, Jason, you
lived in Brooklyn too.
00:10:36.80\00:10:38.13
I lived in Manhattan
but I've been to Brooklyn,
00:10:38.17\00:10:40.44
and Brooklyn is,
it looks amazing now.
00:10:40.47\00:10:43.51
I have seen it back,
well, not back in '76
00:10:43.54\00:10:46.47
but a little bit later on
and I've seen it recently.
00:10:46.51\00:10:51.65
Before and the after,
00:10:51.68\00:10:53.48
so here you are
waiting to go to,
00:10:53.52\00:10:54.85
waiting to go to
junior high school
00:10:54.88\00:10:56.22
or to start school,
how did that turn out?
00:10:56.25\00:10:59.19
Well, it started with PS 26,
00:10:59.22\00:11:02.32
I think that
would be elementary.
00:11:02.36\00:11:04.03
I started in the
fifth grade. Okay.
00:11:04.06\00:11:06.16
Starting in fifth
grade and first few years
00:11:06.19\00:11:09.16
was quite an adjustment.
00:11:09.20\00:11:11.37
My grandma was a
Adventist lay preacher.
00:11:11.40\00:11:16.44
So I knew Adventism,
00:11:16.47\00:11:18.54
you know, my grandma took me
00:11:18.57\00:11:19.91
and was raising me
from I was about a year
00:11:19.94\00:11:22.04
and a half or two years old.
00:11:22.08\00:11:23.51
My mom migrated to
the US, that was about '69
00:11:23.55\00:11:26.88
or there about '68, '69,
so I was raised by my grandma.
00:11:26.92\00:11:31.09
Strong, conservative,
00:11:31.12\00:11:33.52
fundamental
Adventists lay preacher
00:11:33.56\00:11:36.76
and a strong person.
00:11:36.79\00:11:38.66
A matriarch, a queen mother,
00:11:38.69\00:11:41.06
you know, we say lot of
strong Afrocentric values,
00:11:41.10\00:11:44.93
and so there's a
lot that she instilled,
00:11:44.97\00:11:48.17
but there's a lot
even within that nurture
00:11:48.20\00:11:51.07
that I would later
struggle with as far as knowing
00:11:51.11\00:11:54.81
and understanding God
for who He is in character.
00:11:54.84\00:11:58.78
And not just being obedient,
and not just being afraid,
00:11:58.81\00:12:01.78
and not just desiring salvation
so I don't get burned up,
00:12:01.82\00:12:06.72
you know, this kind of stuff.
00:12:06.76\00:12:08.32
So I get into
junior high school, sorry,
00:12:08.36\00:12:11.13
get into elementary school
00:12:11.16\00:12:13.13
and that's the kind
of an adjustment period.
00:12:13.16\00:12:15.66
I'm a good kid, shy,
00:12:15.70\00:12:20.34
strong values and principles,
00:12:20.37\00:12:22.44
I'm still walking down
the streets of Brooklyn
00:12:22.47\00:12:25.17
saying good morning to people.
00:12:25.21\00:12:27.31
You know, 'cause
that's what I did in Guyana
00:12:27.34\00:12:29.31
in South America, you know.
00:12:29.34\00:12:30.68
We were raised with that
kind of Southern courtesy.
00:12:30.71\00:12:32.05
Right.
00:12:32.08\00:12:33.42
You know, "Hello,
sir, good morning, ma'am,"
00:12:33.45\00:12:34.85
The brother said, "What?
00:12:34.88\00:12:36.22
Do I know you?"
00:12:36.25\00:12:37.59
No, but I did that for a
while until I learned to adjust.
00:12:37.62\00:12:40.26
And through all
of that observing
00:12:40.29\00:12:42.82
a lot of victimization,
00:12:42.86\00:12:44.79
you know, observing
kids getting beat up,
00:12:44.83\00:12:47.16
observing, you know,
you're just out for lunch,
00:12:47.20\00:12:50.53
you're walking going
somewhere and a group of guys,
00:12:50.57\00:12:53.44
you know, grab
you, take your money,
00:12:53.47\00:12:55.17
your lunch or whatever it is.
00:12:55.20\00:12:57.04
You know, this kind
of stuff or and later on,
00:12:57.07\00:12:59.14
you know, material thing,
00:12:59.17\00:13:00.51
they take your
coat, they take your hat,
00:13:00.54\00:13:01.88
they take your sneakers,
you know, this type of stuff.
00:13:01.91\00:13:05.01
And so by the time I
got to junior high school,
00:13:05.05\00:13:07.52
I'm trying to figure
ways to cope through that,
00:13:07.55\00:13:11.65
and I'm realizing
that it's kind of like,
00:13:11.69\00:13:13.89
it's a survival game,
00:13:13.92\00:13:15.69
and it's a kill or
be killed kind of game.
00:13:15.72\00:13:18.76
I have no
brothers, I have no cousins.
00:13:18.79\00:13:21.20
My dad, I met my dad
about age 15 at that time,
00:13:21.23\00:13:25.57
so that nurture was
absent at that time.
00:13:25.60\00:13:28.27
And so I figured,
listen, I got to fight,
00:13:28.30\00:13:32.47
you know, I have
to learn to fight.
00:13:32.51\00:13:33.84
Learn to defend yourself.
00:13:33.88\00:13:35.21
Yeah, I have to
learn to defend myself,
00:13:35.24\00:13:36.58
I have to cope,
00:13:36.61\00:13:37.95
but it wasn't
just a physical fight,
00:13:37.98\00:13:39.31
because I'm a small person
and I was even smaller then.
00:13:39.35\00:13:42.32
So it had to be a mental fight,
it had to be a mental game,
00:13:42.35\00:13:45.49
so I had to figure out
how to deal with this culture.
00:13:45.52\00:13:49.12
How to engage it, be part of it,
00:13:49.16\00:13:51.39
yet not be part of it,
00:13:51.43\00:13:53.29
you know, that kind of stuff,
and then my whole experience
00:13:53.33\00:13:56.40
is of reaching to a point
00:13:56.43\00:13:58.97
where I attain some
success in at least learning
00:13:59.00\00:14:03.10
the survival game.
00:14:03.14\00:14:04.57
So I'm now street
wise, but then once I'm there
00:14:04.61\00:14:07.44
and I'm at a secure place,
00:14:07.48\00:14:09.34
I start to get
sucked in to the other side
00:14:09.38\00:14:12.48
which I never really,
00:14:12.51\00:14:14.02
where I never
really intended to go.
00:14:14.05\00:14:15.75
So if I'm hearing you correctly,
00:14:15.78\00:14:18.19
you're learning how
to walk differently,
00:14:18.22\00:14:20.06
stop saying,
00:14:20.09\00:14:21.42
good morning
ma'am, good morning sir,
00:14:21.46\00:14:23.19
trying to have
that tough exterior,
00:14:23.22\00:14:25.13
at least look tougher.
00:14:25.16\00:14:26.80
And kind of keep your mind
00:14:26.83\00:14:28.16
focused looking
around you walking far,
00:14:28.20\00:14:30.03
because a lot of
people don't understand
00:14:30.07\00:14:31.40
that in big cities
and, Jay, you may know this.
00:14:31.43\00:14:33.67
In big cities even
when I go back home,
00:14:33.70\00:14:37.67
you know, we walk to the corner,
00:14:37.71\00:14:39.04
we make wide turns,
00:14:39.07\00:14:40.41
you know, walk to
close to a building,
00:14:40.44\00:14:42.11
not that that's
native to any particular city
00:14:42.14\00:14:44.58
but that's true,
Chicago, Detroit,
00:14:44.61\00:14:46.55
New York, L.A.
00:14:46.58\00:14:47.92
The street sense, man.
00:14:47.95\00:14:49.28
You got to have street
sense, so when we come out here,
00:14:49.32\00:14:51.42
do you know we're
in the Midwest now.
00:14:51.45\00:14:53.36
And this is rough, I
mean, what does that mean?
00:14:53.39\00:14:56.59
But you are in Chicago
00:14:56.62\00:14:57.96
so some of that
helped you for the city
00:14:57.99\00:14:59.33
that you're now missing.
00:14:59.36\00:15:00.70
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:15:00.73\00:15:02.06
This is also about
God's resourcefulness.
00:15:02.10\00:15:04.10
That's right.
00:15:04.13\00:15:05.47
Another amazing thing
that we need to remember,
00:15:05.50\00:15:07.77
those of us
00:15:07.80\00:15:09.14
who are really
struggling to know God,
00:15:09.17\00:15:10.84
and to feel His presence
00:15:10.87\00:15:12.64
if we're going
through a hard time,
00:15:12.67\00:15:15.34
whatever it is that you're going
00:15:15.38\00:15:16.88
through understand
our God is so resourceful,
00:15:16.91\00:15:19.71
He waste nothing.
00:15:19.75\00:15:21.45
So even those
experiences that you have had
00:15:21.48\00:15:24.02
or that you may be having,
00:15:24.05\00:15:26.05
God is going to
use them to His glory
00:15:26.09\00:15:27.72
and for your salvation.
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.09
But you talked about,
00:15:29.12\00:15:30.46
you were going in
a different direction
00:15:30.49\00:15:31.83
changing the way you lived,
00:15:31.86\00:15:33.19
kind of learning the
texture of the culture
00:15:33.23\00:15:36.10
of the streets of Brooklyn.
00:15:36.13\00:15:38.10
But you kind of swung
too far to the other side,
00:15:38.13\00:15:40.64
talk about that?
00:15:40.67\00:15:42.00
I did. I did. I did.
00:15:42.04\00:15:44.34
Things worked well
up to about age eight...
00:15:44.37\00:15:47.01
Sorry up to about age 13.
00:15:47.04\00:15:49.94
I'm actually a charter
member of the Brooklyn Faith
00:15:49.98\00:15:53.28
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:15:53.31\00:15:54.75
That is now on Church
Avenue on 56th street.
00:15:54.78\00:15:57.49
I was charter
member of that church
00:15:57.52\00:15:59.05
from about age 10, 11,
00:15:59.09\00:16:01.16
used to be in the
second street in a basement
00:16:01.19\00:16:03.43
when that church was
a brand Sabbath school
00:16:03.46\00:16:04.86
with eight members.
00:16:04.89\00:16:06.23
My sister and I,
and six other people
00:16:06.26\00:16:08.43
basically were the
core embryo of that church.
00:16:08.46\00:16:10.93
And when you say
brand Sabbath school,
00:16:10.97\00:16:13.13
some of our audience
might not know what that is.
00:16:13.17\00:16:14.97
That's kind of
when you just begin
00:16:15.00\00:16:16.57
a fledgling church
00:16:16.60\00:16:17.94
and you're meeting to
study your Bible together
00:16:17.97\00:16:20.44
and you don't really have
00:16:20.48\00:16:21.81
any established full recognition
00:16:21.84\00:16:23.38
as an authorized church,
00:16:23.41\00:16:24.81
kind of just the
nucleus of a church in growth.
00:16:24.85\00:16:27.28
Yes, correct, correct.
00:16:27.32\00:16:28.65
So we're there and
that was based on a promise
00:16:28.68\00:16:32.55
that my mom made to my grandma.
00:16:32.59\00:16:35.26
My grandma after
we migrated, yes,
00:16:35.29\00:16:37.29
my grandma tells my mom
00:16:37.33\00:16:38.66
who was at that time
was not an Adventist,
00:16:38.69\00:16:41.26
was a God fearing person
00:16:41.30\00:16:42.63
but not a church going person.
00:16:42.66\00:16:44.63
Grandma says to my mom, look,
00:16:44.67\00:16:46.00
I've raised these sort of
as the Seventh-day Adventist,
00:16:46.03\00:16:48.37
and I'm asking
you to do the same,
00:16:48.40\00:16:51.34
whether you desire to
be convicted in practicing
00:16:51.37\00:16:54.48
that faith or not,
00:16:54.51\00:16:55.84
please raise him the
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:16:55.88\00:16:57.45
So my mom starts asking
around forking her work,
00:16:57.48\00:16:59.05
you know, do you
know an Adventist Church,
00:16:59.08\00:17:00.42
do you know an Adventist Church,
00:17:00.45\00:17:01.78
da-da, da-da.
00:17:01.82\00:17:03.15
Somebody said,
you know, actually,
00:17:03.18\00:17:04.52
you're on 52nd Street,
00:17:04.55\00:17:05.89
there's a sister
from Brooklyn temple
00:17:05.92\00:17:07.46
that has a little mission
over there, da-da, da-da.
00:17:07.49\00:17:09.92
And so my mom starts sending us,
00:17:09.96\00:17:12.29
you know, just over there,
it's just across the street.
00:17:12.33\00:17:15.06
I was a happy man
because I was enjoying my,
00:17:15.10\00:17:17.90
you know, I
didn't see a television
00:17:17.93\00:17:20.04
until I came to the US.
00:17:20.07\00:17:21.70
Believe it or not,
00:17:21.74\00:17:23.07
I did not see a
television until 1977.
00:17:23.10\00:17:26.84
So I grew up on the radio,
00:17:26.88\00:17:29.08
like someone in the 40's
or the 50's like full radio.
00:17:29.11\00:17:32.61
So anyway, I'm here and
Saturday morning cartoons.
00:17:32.65\00:17:37.02
Oh, gosh! Man,
that was my thing.
00:17:37.05\00:17:39.32
Scooby-Doo.
00:17:39.35\00:17:40.69
And so now here's
my mom talking about,
00:17:40.72\00:17:42.32
yeah, yeah Spider
Man and all, yeah.
00:17:42.36\00:17:45.69
And Conjunction Function
00:17:45.73\00:17:47.46
and even the educational
stuff I can show you.
00:17:47.50\00:17:51.73
So my mom is like
you're gonna go to church,
00:17:51.77\00:17:54.14
you know, you guys.
00:17:54.17\00:17:55.50
Ah!
00:17:55.54\00:17:56.87
You got to be kidding
me, so, you know, all right,
00:17:56.91\00:17:58.24
I'm accustomed to it, so
we start going to church,
00:17:58.27\00:18:00.24
and then that
little mission transitions
00:18:00.28\00:18:02.41
into a larger
plans, Clarkson Avenue,
00:18:02.44\00:18:04.41
and then from Clarkson
Avenue to Church Avenue.
00:18:04.45\00:18:06.31
And right about each
13, I remember one morning,
00:18:06.35\00:18:09.15
I was laying in bed,
00:18:09.18\00:18:10.95
I had already started to
slowly make the transition
00:18:10.99\00:18:14.09
to the whole
street survival thing.
00:18:14.12\00:18:18.23
Sat up, it was my birthday,
13th birthday, and my mom said,
00:18:18.26\00:18:22.76
"Son, it's 9:30, you
need to get dressed."
00:18:22.80\00:18:26.70
And I said, "Yeah."
00:18:26.74\00:18:28.60
She came back 15, it's
9:45, you need to get dressed,
00:18:28.64\00:18:31.17
get up, get ready for church.
00:18:31.21\00:18:32.54
I said, "I'm not going."
00:18:32.57\00:18:34.88
"What do you mean
you're not going?"
00:18:34.91\00:18:36.85
I said, "I'm not
going." She said, "Son, why?"
00:18:36.88\00:18:40.32
I said, "It's my birthday."
00:18:40.35\00:18:42.08
Well, better
reason for you to go
00:18:42.12\00:18:43.52
and give God praise for,
00:18:43.55\00:18:44.89
you know, sparing your
life to see another year.
00:18:44.92\00:18:47.42
So I said, "Mom, I
ask you all the time
00:18:47.46\00:18:50.79
when you're going to let
me make my own decisions.
00:18:50.83\00:18:53.43
You told me, you start
let me make my own decisions
00:18:53.46\00:18:55.73
when I'm 13,
00:18:55.76\00:18:57.10
because that will be
the beginning of my manhood.
00:18:57.13\00:18:58.73
I'm 13, I want to go."
00:18:58.77\00:19:00.54
You thought you
were grown at that point.
00:19:00.57\00:19:01.90
Yo, I won't go
back to no church.
00:19:01.94\00:19:03.47
You know, now my mom,
00:19:03.51\00:19:04.84
we had an
interesting relationship.
00:19:04.87\00:19:07.11
My mom was the complete opposite
00:19:07.14\00:19:09.21
of my grandma.
00:19:09.24\00:19:10.75
My grandma was, you
know, strong on the right.
00:19:10.78\00:19:13.48
Enforcer. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:13.52\00:19:15.25
My mom was very gentle,
soft spoken, very loving,
00:19:15.28\00:19:18.05
very patient.
00:19:18.09\00:19:19.69
And I think my
mom was also afraid,
00:19:19.72\00:19:22.02
she sensed that
transition happening,
00:19:22.06\00:19:24.89
and I think she was afraid
if she pushed or bent that,
00:19:24.93\00:19:28.36
you know, rod too
hard, it would break.
00:19:28.40\00:19:30.80
I would be even
more distant than I was,
00:19:30.83\00:19:33.27
so she didn't want to press it.
00:19:33.30\00:19:35.04
My mom said, "Okay, son,
I'll give you, tell you what,
00:19:35.07\00:19:38.77
don't worry
about Sabbath school,
00:19:38.81\00:19:40.68
you have to come
to Sabbath school
00:19:40.71\00:19:42.04
just get some rest
00:19:42.08\00:19:43.41
and, you know, come
at 11 for divine hour.
00:19:43.45\00:19:47.08
And she started to
pull the door and I said,
00:19:47.12\00:19:48.68
"I'm not coming."
00:19:48.72\00:19:50.65
And she said,
"I'll see you in church."
00:19:50.69\00:19:53.32
As she pulled the bedroom door
and she left, never went back.
00:19:53.36\00:19:57.53
Never went back
00:19:57.56\00:19:58.89
within a
committed cyclical practice
00:19:58.93\00:20:02.56
of visiting
church over the Sabbath,
00:20:02.60\00:20:03.93
though I ended up
00:20:03.97\00:20:05.30
back in church for
many other reasons.
00:20:05.33\00:20:07.14
Did you have like one
foot in, one foot out?
00:20:07.17\00:20:09.80
Well, that's what it was.
00:20:09.84\00:20:11.17
I had already
started carrying a pistol,
00:20:11.21\00:20:13.58
carrying a knife at 13 already.
00:20:13.61\00:20:15.58
Wow!
00:20:15.61\00:20:17.55
I had already...
00:20:17.58\00:20:18.91
Well, wasn't smoking or
anything like that as yet,
00:20:18.95\00:20:21.25
but the arm thing
started with hanging
00:20:21.28\00:20:24.69
with the older
guys in the neighborhood
00:20:24.72\00:20:26.32
and trying to gain
favor and trust with them.
00:20:26.35\00:20:29.62
At 12, at 13 I looked like 10.
00:20:29.66\00:20:32.69
At 15 I looked like 12,
at 20, I looked like 15,
00:20:32.73\00:20:36.30
you know, I always had,
00:20:36.33\00:20:37.67
all is gray and everything
has changed my appearance,
00:20:37.70\00:20:39.73
but I always had a baby face.
00:20:39.77\00:20:41.64
So the older guys on the block,
00:20:41.67\00:20:43.91
they recognized that
and took advantage of it.
00:20:43.94\00:20:47.01
So whenever
00:20:47.04\00:20:48.38
we would go anywhere as a group,
00:20:48.41\00:20:49.74
I would be the one
that would tuck the pistol,
00:20:49.78\00:20:52.05
or tuck the blade
or whatever it was.
00:20:52.08\00:20:53.92
Because they didn't
expect you to get searched.
00:20:53.95\00:20:56.25
I wouldn't, and even if I did,
I would be out the next day.
00:20:56.28\00:21:00.46
Because you're minor. Yeah.
00:21:00.49\00:21:01.82
There were times
00:21:01.86\00:21:03.19
when I didn't
tugged, when I tugged two.
00:21:03.22\00:21:04.73
So you can imagine
00:21:04.76\00:21:06.09
this little kid
got two firearms on me
00:21:06.13\00:21:09.60
at a block party
or a house party,
00:21:09.63\00:21:11.53
wherever it was that we went.
00:21:11.57\00:21:12.90
Well, I know that
term, block party.
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.27
Or could even be
just a park, you know.
00:21:14.30\00:21:17.14
And then when things
00:21:17.17\00:21:18.87
would become heated so to speak,
00:21:18.91\00:21:22.58
it would be a funny sight to see
00:21:22.61\00:21:24.05
two or three guys
pulling on my clothing.
00:21:24.08\00:21:27.42
And trying to take that
yo, shorty, give me that,
00:21:27.45\00:21:29.48
yo, shorty, let me hold
that, give me that, you know.
00:21:29.52\00:21:31.32
And they are trying to
retrieve the pistol off from me
00:21:31.35\00:21:34.52
to go do whatever it
is that they have to do.
00:21:34.56\00:21:36.89
So that transition was
already slowly developing
00:21:36.93\00:21:40.80
and as Jason asked,
00:21:40.83\00:21:42.93
it was a mental struggle for me
00:21:42.96\00:21:45.43
to be sitting in church
00:21:45.47\00:21:46.80
and, you know, all of that so...
00:21:46.84\00:21:48.84
'Cause your mind
was at someplace else.
00:21:48.87\00:21:50.44
What people don't understand is,
00:21:50.47\00:21:51.91
when you start
molding your mind,
00:21:51.94\00:21:54.08
it's going to take your
body in a different direction.
00:21:54.11\00:21:56.34
The mind controls the body,
00:21:56.38\00:21:58.15
the body doesn't
control the mind.
00:21:58.18\00:22:00.08
So when you start
making intellectual choices,
00:22:00.12\00:22:02.32
those are also
choices that develop you
00:22:02.35\00:22:04.72
as far as your
physical responses,
00:22:04.75\00:22:06.76
your emotional responses.
00:22:06.79\00:22:08.86
The way you
think about something,
00:22:08.89\00:22:10.36
once you start making
intellectual decisions,
00:22:10.39\00:22:12.76
I'm not going,
I'm not going back.
00:22:12.79\00:22:14.93
Once you stop planting
that thought in your mind,
00:22:14.96\00:22:17.33
the body starts
getting a different attitude.
00:22:17.37\00:22:19.63
And you don't miss it
00:22:19.67\00:22:21.70
because you're
taken all together
00:22:21.74\00:22:23.67
and you start molding
in a different direction,
00:22:23.71\00:22:25.84
and your mind takes that all,
00:22:25.87\00:22:27.21
your mind takes your body there.
00:22:27.24\00:22:28.58
So by the time you
start to carry a pistol,
00:22:28.61\00:22:31.28
or two pistols, or a knife,
or if I'm understanding here,
00:22:31.31\00:22:35.08
did you ever get involved
in using any kind of drugs
00:22:35.12\00:22:37.69
or any kind of substances?
00:22:37.72\00:22:39.55
Primarily marijuana. Okay.
00:22:39.59\00:22:41.32
Yeah, I never
really wanted to mess
00:22:41.36\00:22:43.02
with hard drugs so to speak,
00:22:43.06\00:22:45.79
alcohol is
prevalent in our culture,
00:22:45.83\00:22:48.13
in Caribbean culture,
South American culture,
00:22:48.16\00:22:49.96
so alcohol always
played a part to some extent,
00:22:50.00\00:22:52.77
but it was primarily marijuana
00:22:52.80\00:22:54.30
and then music Old
English Eight-Hundred,
00:22:54.34\00:22:57.24
you guys are
bashing me terribly.
00:22:57.27\00:22:59.07
No, right.
00:22:59.11\00:23:00.44
Because back then was if,
00:23:00.48\00:23:01.81
you know, they
used to call it the 40.
00:23:01.84\00:23:03.18
The 40 ounce. 40 ounce a beer.
00:23:03.21\00:23:04.98
It was a 40
ounce and I don't know
00:23:05.01\00:23:08.42
if I can say those
words on camera though,
00:23:08.45\00:23:11.15
and narcotics, okay, weed,
you know, 40 ounce and weed.
00:23:11.19\00:23:14.06
That's the kind of life
00:23:14.09\00:23:15.42
you had that's
where the Lord saw you.
00:23:15.46\00:23:16.86
Yes, yes.
00:23:16.89\00:23:18.23
At that point I'm not
doing that independently,
00:23:18.26\00:23:20.80
I'm only doing
00:23:20.83\00:23:22.16
that like in
association with friends.
00:23:22.20\00:23:24.33
So I would go to
church periodically
00:23:24.37\00:23:27.60
by my mom's
invitation to appease her,
00:23:27.64\00:23:30.51
especially if I got in trouble,
00:23:30.54\00:23:32.27
if I got arrested
00:23:32.31\00:23:34.14
or if I got a
complaint of some sort.
00:23:34.18\00:23:37.15
To appease my mom, you
know, I would go to church.
00:23:37.18\00:23:41.78
The other interesting point
about this whole experience
00:23:41.82\00:23:46.45
as we look at Adventism
and look at church life,
00:23:46.49\00:23:49.69
there are people
who, when they see this,
00:23:49.72\00:23:53.03
they knew me, they'll be like,
"No, he made all of that up."
00:23:53.06\00:23:57.57
I remember him, there's no way,
00:23:57.60\00:24:00.80
all of that could
have been going on.
00:24:00.84\00:24:02.60
And let me tell you,
there are dozens of kids,
00:24:02.64\00:24:06.41
many kids
00:24:06.44\00:24:08.01
who are in a Seventh-day
Adventist church and culture
00:24:08.04\00:24:10.75
and are living
that kind of double life
00:24:10.78\00:24:13.15
in the inner city
00:24:13.18\00:24:14.52
because, especially,
00:24:14.55\00:24:16.18
if they were nurtured to
be courteous and respectful
00:24:16.22\00:24:18.85
which I was, so it was...
00:24:18.89\00:24:22.22
I never became rude
to adults or elders,
00:24:22.26\00:24:26.96
I was always still
courteous and kind to people
00:24:27.00\00:24:29.10
who were older than me
and respectful to them.
00:24:29.13\00:24:31.40
But it was this
kind of double life
00:24:31.43\00:24:33.57
that I was living and...
00:24:33.60\00:24:35.40
Turn it off, turn
it on. Yes, yes, yes.
00:24:35.44\00:24:36.77
I can identify what that
00:24:36.81\00:24:38.14
'cause that was the
same way I was raised to,
00:24:38.17\00:24:40.34
you know, be a
Adventist and go to church
00:24:40.38\00:24:42.61
and all that stuff,
but my mind wasn't there.
00:24:42.64\00:24:45.18
I was one foot in one foot
out for a long time as well.
00:24:45.21\00:24:48.42
So when I was in the street,
00:24:48.45\00:24:49.78
it's almost best
illustration I can give you,
00:24:49.82\00:24:52.05
it's like being
drafted into the military.
00:24:52.09\00:24:55.22
The streets
would be the military,
00:24:55.26\00:24:57.46
would be a military
enrolment, I have a uniform.
00:24:57.49\00:25:00.03
And survival is
all a part of it.
00:25:00.06\00:25:01.46
Yes, I have a
uniform that I put on
00:25:01.50\00:25:03.37
that I wore every day
that I went out there.
00:25:03.40\00:25:05.83
Sheepskin coat. Oh, yeah.
00:25:05.87\00:25:08.40
Sheepskin hat,
whatever leather hat,
00:25:08.44\00:25:10.44
and the bombers,
00:25:10.47\00:25:11.81
certain tight pants, Adidas,
00:25:11.84\00:25:13.64
they were Pumas,
00:25:13.68\00:25:15.34
certain walk and certain talk,
00:25:15.38\00:25:17.21
and then as we
culturally transition
00:25:17.25\00:25:20.12
and more and more
West Indians started
00:25:20.15\00:25:22.05
to migrate to Brooklyn.
00:25:22.08\00:25:23.75
Then of course, by
the mid 80s I transitioned
00:25:23.79\00:25:26.42
to a whole
Caribbean culture lifestyle,
00:25:26.45\00:25:28.29
there was a Rastafarian thing.
00:25:28.32\00:25:29.72
And, you know,
those type clothing and...
00:25:29.76\00:25:31.59
Now you have a little bit
00:25:31.63\00:25:32.96
of Jamaican
background also, don't you?
00:25:32.99\00:25:34.33
Guyanese. Oh, Guyanese.
00:25:34.36\00:25:35.70
Okay, all right.
Yes, yes, Guyanese.
00:25:35.73\00:25:37.07
So the Rastafarian
00:25:37.10\00:25:38.43
because, you know, in Brooklyn,
00:25:38.47\00:25:40.44
you know, Jamaican
culture is very strong.
00:25:40.47\00:25:41.80
Very prevalent, yes.
00:25:41.84\00:25:43.17
And then you also,
00:25:43.20\00:25:44.54
you hear the reggae
music, and Rastafaria,
00:25:44.57\00:25:46.37
all these terms,
00:25:46.41\00:25:47.74
which is kind of like
substitutes for Christ.
00:25:47.78\00:25:51.28
Did you ever get
involved in that...?
00:25:51.31\00:25:52.65
Very much so.
00:25:52.68\00:25:54.02
You got involved in
that kind of blasphemy.
00:25:54.05\00:25:55.38
Very much so,
before Rastafarianism,
00:25:55.42\00:25:58.12
my first exposure
to that type of life
00:25:58.15\00:26:00.46
was through a group
called the Five Percenters.
00:26:00.49\00:26:02.39
I remember that.
00:26:02.42\00:26:03.76
Yeah, you hear
Ivor, Dwayne Lemon,
00:26:03.79\00:26:08.30
if I'm saying his name correct,
you know, those brothers,
00:26:08.33\00:26:10.27
I hear their
testimonies and I could hear
00:26:10.30\00:26:12.60
that they also had
exposure to all of that also.
00:26:12.63\00:26:14.90
So I became a Five Percenter,
00:26:14.94\00:26:16.97
adopted an Islamic
name and I was searching,
00:26:17.01\00:26:20.48
you know, until a
friend pulled me aside
00:26:20.51\00:26:22.21
one day and explained
to me that he is Muslim.
00:26:22.24\00:26:26.38
And he said, you know,
if you're seeking Allah,
00:26:26.41\00:26:29.05
man you ain't
gonna find him here,
00:26:29.08\00:26:30.42
you know, if you really
want to know about Islam,
00:26:30.45\00:26:32.59
you know, come to the mosque.
00:26:32.62\00:26:33.96
You know, my dad
will help you to learn,
00:26:33.99\00:26:36.19
and he started to
tell me more about Islam
00:26:36.22\00:26:39.09
than what I was
learning as a Five Percenter
00:26:39.13\00:26:40.93
which basically was
the militant right arm
00:26:40.96\00:26:44.20
of the Nation of Islam.
00:26:44.23\00:26:46.23
So it's alleged
that Louis Farrakhan
00:26:46.27\00:26:49.40
was the one that
started the movement
00:26:49.44\00:26:51.31
and then pulled
himself out of it
00:26:51.34\00:26:52.94
in somewhere with everybody.
00:26:52.97\00:26:54.31
The Five Percenters
were extremely violent.
00:26:54.34\00:26:56.91
So it was kind of like
00:26:56.95\00:26:58.78
a Black Panther
movement of the nation of Islam.
00:26:58.81\00:27:03.25
So at this point in your
life, did you have an emptiness,
00:27:03.28\00:27:07.69
were you looking to
fill a void at that time,
00:27:07.72\00:27:10.13
is that why you were searching,
you were looking at drugs,
00:27:10.16\00:27:14.06
you were looking at, you
know, the Nation of Islam,
00:27:14.10\00:27:16.33
you were looking at
the Five Percenters.
00:27:16.36\00:27:18.00
You were looking at
all these different things,
00:27:18.03\00:27:19.93
where you were searching
00:27:19.97\00:27:21.37
but were you
trying to fill a void?
00:27:21.40\00:27:24.21
It was insecurity, if there
was that void was insecurity,
00:27:24.24\00:27:27.74
that void was how
am I going to survive
00:27:27.78\00:27:31.01
and I had been
introduced to God as I said,
00:27:31.05\00:27:33.72
so I believed in
the divine creator
00:27:33.75\00:27:35.78
to some extent.
00:27:35.82\00:27:37.15
I believed there was a God
that was present in my life.
00:27:37.19\00:27:39.65
What I couldn't grasp
clearly through Adventism
00:27:39.69\00:27:42.29
were all the
fundamentals and the doctrines,
00:27:42.32\00:27:44.33
and what all of that or
how all of that could help me
00:27:44.36\00:27:47.76
to be an
individual that could survive.
00:27:47.80\00:27:50.23
So we're dealing with
going to church and learning
00:27:50.27\00:27:53.30
about the Pathfinders,
00:27:53.34\00:27:55.17
which is
something I regret today,
00:27:55.20\00:27:57.51
but then I strongly
resisted and there were elders
00:27:57.54\00:28:02.44
in the church that try to,
00:28:02.48\00:28:03.81
you know, kind of
guide me in that direction.
00:28:03.85\00:28:06.92
I remember having
conversation with my mom, look,
00:28:06.95\00:28:09.12
I can't walk down
the street with a suit.
00:28:09.15\00:28:11.15
I can't be in those,
that's my language back then,
00:28:11.19\00:28:13.89
I can't be walking down
the street with a Bible, Ma.
00:28:13.92\00:28:16.09
I can't be walking
down a street with a suit,
00:28:16.12\00:28:17.56
I can't be walking down a
street with no crazy green,
00:28:17.59\00:28:20.06
yellow looking
uniform, and what is that.
00:28:20.10\00:28:22.06
You just know I ain't wearing
that, you know, of course,
00:28:22.10\00:28:24.73
and so on and so forth.
00:28:24.77\00:28:26.37
And it was this
refusal to associate myself
00:28:26.40\00:28:29.24
with anything religious,
00:28:29.27\00:28:30.91
for the fear of the labeling
and what that would cause,
00:28:30.94\00:28:34.78
it would taint
my street reputation
00:28:34.81\00:28:36.88
that I had now
supposedly developed.
00:28:36.91\00:28:39.35
Now you got soft.
00:28:39.38\00:28:40.72
Yes, I would be considered soft.
00:28:40.75\00:28:42.85
So as Jason was
saying, it was just putting on
00:28:42.88\00:28:47.39
and putting off of that uniform,
00:28:47.42\00:28:49.26
so if when I was
home, all that thug stuff,
00:28:49.29\00:28:52.69
thug tug stuff, I
kind of left it out,
00:28:52.73\00:28:56.13
if I were visiting
church, I left it out.
00:28:56.16\00:28:58.93
Once I got on the number 46 bus
and once I was standing outside
00:28:58.97\00:29:03.44
my school or wherever,
then I was that person again.
00:29:03.47\00:29:08.48
And the number 46 bus,
00:29:08.51\00:29:09.84
I mean, the 26 is
ours, the 44, the 25.
00:29:09.88\00:29:12.91
It seems like New
Yorkers always remember the bus
00:29:12.95\00:29:15.48
or the subway that
they took or that avenue.
00:29:15.52\00:29:17.42
Or PS, the school
they went to. Yeah.
00:29:17.45\00:29:20.92
But eventually you
had to leave New York,
00:29:20.96\00:29:22.72
tell us what happened?
00:29:22.76\00:29:24.46
Wow. You moved to Miami?
00:29:24.49\00:29:26.23
That's a long fast forward
00:29:26.26\00:29:29.26
so that happened in the '90s.
00:29:29.30\00:29:33.77
I was then...
00:29:33.80\00:29:35.14
Let me back up just a little bit
00:29:35.17\00:29:36.50
so we don't have
to too large a gap.
00:29:36.54\00:29:40.61
By 15, 16, I'm
heavily into street life,
00:29:40.64\00:29:45.31
that's high school years.
00:29:45.35\00:29:48.12
I'm going to a school in Queens
00:29:48.15\00:29:49.75
because I could
not go to Wingate
00:29:49.78\00:29:51.59
which was my zone school,
and I could not go to Erasmus
00:29:51.62\00:29:54.92
because of rival gang
association you would say.
00:29:54.96\00:29:59.06
Interestingly we
didn't have gangs back then,
00:29:59.09\00:30:00.80
didn't call them gangs,
just call it like a posse,
00:30:00.83\00:30:04.07
you know, it was just
varied neighborhood groups
00:30:04.10\00:30:07.40
and we actually went by
the number of our street.
00:30:07.44\00:30:12.07
So you had the 50s posse,
the 90s posse, the 40s posse,
00:30:12.11\00:30:17.88
you know, 21st
posse, 31st posse,
00:30:17.91\00:30:20.35
and all these groups...
00:30:20.38\00:30:21.72
Very territorial.
00:30:21.75\00:30:23.08
Yes, yes, yes, all having to do
00:30:23.12\00:30:24.45
with controlled
trade or trafficking,
00:30:24.49\00:30:27.66
and you didn't encroached
each other's perimeter
00:30:27.69\00:30:30.79
because you do your
trafficking in your area,
00:30:30.83\00:30:33.86
and so on and so forth so...
00:30:33.90\00:30:35.53
That's drug
trafficking to be specific.
00:30:35.56\00:30:37.37
Yes, so I go through
all of that incidents
00:30:37.40\00:30:41.20
with stabbings
and then one incident
00:30:41.24\00:30:44.57
that involved the
shooting of someone
00:30:44.61\00:30:46.68
and I ended up having
to go back to South America
00:30:46.71\00:30:49.11
for my own safety.
00:30:49.14\00:30:51.61
Again extended family,
00:30:51.65\00:30:53.55
and all the people
watching this show,
00:30:53.58\00:30:55.35
they'll be like, "No."
00:30:55.38\00:30:57.32
I didn't know
that's why he went back,
00:30:57.35\00:30:59.75
that was the reason.
00:30:59.79\00:31:01.12
So this is the tell all version.
00:31:01.16\00:31:02.49
Yes, yes, yes, indeed
so to avoid prosecution
00:31:02.52\00:31:06.90
and to avoid being killed,
00:31:06.93\00:31:10.60
being sought after and
killed by the rival group,
00:31:10.63\00:31:14.44
my mom and
another family members
00:31:14.47\00:31:16.10
worked together
00:31:16.14\00:31:17.47
and got me to return to
South America for a year.
00:31:17.51\00:31:20.24
I didn't kill the
person just to make it clear.
00:31:20.28\00:31:22.28
I just was
involved in that shooting.
00:31:22.31\00:31:26.45
I'm in South
America for almost a year
00:31:26.48\00:31:29.02
and then I return about '85
00:31:29.05\00:31:34.42
and it did help,
00:31:34.46\00:31:36.19
you know, while I was
there nothing happened
00:31:36.22\00:31:39.13
so to speak within
the environment itself
00:31:39.16\00:31:41.13
that made me say,
00:31:41.16\00:31:42.50
"Well, you know, I
don't want to be here."
00:31:42.53\00:31:43.87
I had great fun as most kids
00:31:43.90\00:31:45.40
when they get
deported or whatever.
00:31:45.43\00:31:46.77
You know, I just smoked
more weed, drank more alcohol,
00:31:46.80\00:31:51.74
we're at
Rastafarian cousins party,
00:31:51.77\00:31:53.81
you know, did all of
that wonderful stuff.
00:31:53.84\00:31:55.71
But I had a run in with a cousin
00:31:55.74\00:31:58.25
who let me know the
value of what I had in the US
00:31:58.28\00:32:02.85
and what I was
taking for granted.
00:32:02.88\00:32:04.62
She was brilliant
00:32:04.65\00:32:06.15
and she had
scholarships to Romania,
00:32:06.19\00:32:08.69
scholarship to Russia,
00:32:08.72\00:32:10.56
she was about
maybe 18 at that age,
00:32:10.59\00:32:13.03
she turned all of them down
00:32:13.06\00:32:14.40
because she wanted
to come to the west.
00:32:14.43\00:32:16.26
And so she was crying one day,
you know, as we were talking,
00:32:16.30\00:32:18.80
she said "What I would
give to have an opportunity
00:32:18.83\00:32:22.74
to have the opportunity
you had to go to the US,
00:32:22.77\00:32:25.87
you know, because
she wants to study law.
00:32:25.91\00:32:28.84
And, you know, I was
trying to comfort her
00:32:28.88\00:32:30.61
and as I was trying
to comfort her and say,
00:32:30.65\00:32:32.98
you know, you'll be all right,
you know, things will work out.
00:32:33.01\00:32:35.62
I'm thinking to
myself, you know, I'm here
00:32:35.65\00:32:37.95
and my main objective right now,
00:32:37.99\00:32:41.76
my main concern is,
00:32:41.79\00:32:43.12
when I get back to Brooklyn,
how I'm gonna find bullets,
00:32:43.16\00:32:47.06
you know, or how I'm
gonna find a bigger pistol,
00:32:47.10\00:32:50.83
or how I'm gonna find
00:32:50.87\00:32:52.43
the most lucrative yet deviant,
00:32:52.47\00:32:57.11
yet safe means of living.
00:32:57.14\00:33:01.14
I want to make money,
00:33:01.18\00:33:02.88
I want to
establish myself, right?
00:33:02.91\00:33:05.48
I know it's going to
be something illicit,
00:33:05.51\00:33:07.52
but I don't want it
to be something illicit
00:33:07.55\00:33:09.08
that's going to kill me.
00:33:09.12\00:33:10.75
So I want to be wise
about it and I'm going
00:33:10.79\00:33:13.42
through that
kind of cunningness,
00:33:13.46\00:33:15.46
and it said to me,
00:33:15.49\00:33:16.83
you know, you're
wasting your life, man,
00:33:16.86\00:33:18.93
you know, that's not
what you're here for.
00:33:18.96\00:33:20.33
So when I came back,
had a renewed spirit,
00:33:20.36\00:33:23.13
got into college and
got my first degree started
00:33:23.16\00:33:27.74
to work in
aviation, first degree was...
00:33:27.77\00:33:29.84
That's in New York? Yes.
00:33:29.87\00:33:31.54
First degree was in the
aeronautical engineering
00:33:31.57\00:33:33.54
at the College of Aeronautics,
00:33:33.58\00:33:35.98
this thing is
called Vaughn College now.
00:33:36.01\00:33:37.58
I was a bright kid,
00:33:37.61\00:33:39.25
and then working in
aviation at one point,
00:33:39.28\00:33:42.65
I end up having to be trance,
00:33:42.68\00:33:45.15
I had to get out of
New York long story short.
00:33:45.19\00:33:47.19
Because I got tangled up
within doing illicit things
00:33:47.22\00:33:51.96
while in aviation,
and it got to the point
00:33:51.99\00:33:54.30
where there was a federal probe,
00:33:54.33\00:33:56.06
a friend got shot,
00:33:56.10\00:33:57.60
he was
apprehended in the parking lot
00:33:57.63\00:33:59.40
by some of the group
that's part of that trait.
00:33:59.43\00:34:03.47
They shot him in both his
knees and left him on the ground
00:34:03.51\00:34:06.07
in the parking lot,
00:34:06.11\00:34:07.58
and then police looking
at that as a strange incident
00:34:07.61\00:34:11.15
decided to get a warrant
00:34:11.18\00:34:14.28
while he was in hospital,
questioned and raid his home,
00:34:14.32\00:34:16.28
found paraphernalia, found money
00:34:16.32\00:34:17.89
and then put pressure on him.
00:34:17.92\00:34:19.59
So then he
started to tell the police
00:34:19.62\00:34:21.72
the details of
who else was involved
00:34:21.76\00:34:23.59
and whatever and
so on and so forth.
00:34:23.63\00:34:25.43
Another friend
had fled to Jamaica
00:34:25.46\00:34:27.46
and then called me
00:34:27.50\00:34:28.83
maybe three days
later and said, look,
00:34:28.86\00:34:30.20
this is what's going on
00:34:30.23\00:34:31.57
and if you know
what's good for you,
00:34:31.60\00:34:32.93
get out of New York,
go back to South America,
00:34:32.97\00:34:35.07
I'm here in Jamaica
and, da-da, da-da...
00:34:35.10\00:34:37.81
Well, I didn't leave the country
00:34:37.84\00:34:39.24
but it just so happened,
a transfer was available,
00:34:39.27\00:34:42.54
so I transferred with
my company to Florida.
00:34:42.58\00:34:45.25
To evade and to get
away from all the tension
00:34:45.28\00:34:48.15
that was building up
in Brooklyn at that time
00:34:48.18\00:34:50.72
and to save my life.
00:34:50.75\00:34:52.19
So when you think
00:34:52.22\00:34:53.56
about Brooklyn
you think about, "Wow!
00:34:53.59\00:34:56.06
That's where I
could have ended up."
00:34:56.09\00:34:58.63
And fast forwarding in the story
00:34:58.66\00:35:00.50
because we look at
you now as you said,
00:35:00.53\00:35:03.73
and you save
yourself, similar to,
00:35:03.77\00:35:06.87
you know, Jason and myself.
00:35:06.90\00:35:08.24
I know, I survived a lot of
the street life in New York,
00:35:08.27\00:35:10.64
could've been shot,
00:35:10.67\00:35:12.01
held up at
gunpoint more than once,
00:35:12.04\00:35:13.91
fights with gangs,
00:35:13.94\00:35:16.04
and we look back
at it now on this set
00:35:16.08\00:35:20.02
and we say God had another plan.
00:35:20.05\00:35:22.88
Absolutely. God is amazing.
00:35:22.92\00:35:24.25
Indeed, indeed.
00:35:24.29\00:35:25.62
Thank God, He doesn't leave us
the way He finds us, you know.
00:35:25.65\00:35:28.96
So much could have happened
00:35:28.99\00:35:30.33
and the devil wanted to
take you out in your sins,
00:35:30.36\00:35:33.36
and he was trying to
keep you in that lifestyle
00:35:33.40\00:35:35.36
and he was
constantly pulling at you
00:35:35.40\00:35:37.53
and put you in
so many situations
00:35:37.57\00:35:42.34
where that could have been it.
00:35:42.37\00:35:44.31
Absolutely.
00:35:44.34\00:35:45.67
Now in the interest of
time, what I want to do
00:35:45.71\00:35:47.08
because I know we're
going to let our audience know
00:35:47.11\00:35:49.84
that you can invite Pastor Lowe
to give his, the full version.
00:35:49.88\00:35:54.12
We kind of leave little
gaps in there so people can say,
00:35:54.15\00:35:57.62
but I want to find
out what happened then,
00:35:57.65\00:35:59.39
kind of activate
them to invite you
00:35:59.42\00:36:00.76
because we'll let
you know at the end
00:36:00.79\00:36:02.12
the program
00:36:02.16\00:36:03.49
how to get in
touch with Pastor Lowe
00:36:03.53\00:36:04.86
because it's not possible
to cover all of the story
00:36:04.89\00:36:06.80
in one avenue of the program.
00:36:06.83\00:36:09.16
But you're in Miami now,
and you're working there,
00:36:09.20\00:36:12.50
tell us about your
eventual return to God,
00:36:12.53\00:36:15.84
and then your marriage?
00:36:15.87\00:36:17.21
How did the Lord lead there?
00:36:17.24\00:36:18.87
And then we've got
to get to the ministry
00:36:18.91\00:36:20.48
that you have and find
out what's going on there.
00:36:20.51\00:36:23.45
Sure, by the
time I reached Miami,
00:36:23.48\00:36:26.55
I had a second degree.
00:36:26.58\00:36:28.32
I was now working
in Aviation Management,
00:36:28.35\00:36:31.45
while in Miami I also got
into a professional wrongdoing
00:36:31.49\00:36:36.22
so to speak.
00:36:36.26\00:36:37.59
And one incident
failed terribly almost,
00:36:37.63\00:36:42.63
and I probably would have
still been in jail, God knows.
00:36:42.66\00:36:46.57
But it failed
through, it didn't work.
00:36:46.60\00:36:48.90
I said, today God
caused it not to work,
00:36:48.94\00:36:51.67
and as a result the
person who was at the head
00:36:51.71\00:36:55.84
of that trade
transaction whatever,
00:36:55.88\00:36:59.45
you know, was a
good friend of mine
00:36:59.48\00:37:00.82
from New York
00:37:00.85\00:37:02.18
that I had actually
trained while in New York.
00:37:02.22\00:37:05.45
How to get into this lifestyle
00:37:05.49\00:37:07.76
and, you know, how to
be more successful in it
00:37:07.79\00:37:10.13
and so forth, how to,
00:37:10.16\00:37:11.76
you know, I used
to ride motorcycles.
00:37:11.79\00:37:13.23
I taught him how to ride
00:37:13.26\00:37:14.60
and bought him
his first motorcycle
00:37:14.63\00:37:16.43
and all those ninja
bikes and all, you know.
00:37:16.46\00:37:18.50
I remember that. The
whole fast lane stuff.
00:37:18.53\00:37:20.44
So he actually turned out
to be someone very successful
00:37:20.47\00:37:23.41
within the narcotics trade,
00:37:23.44\00:37:25.51
and he pulled me back in
once I got down to Miami.
00:37:25.54\00:37:29.91
And it failed, the
effort of trade failed.
00:37:29.94\00:37:33.65
Praise the Lord.
00:37:33.68\00:37:35.02
He said to me, look, I
remember the call, he said,
00:37:35.05\00:37:37.05
"You know, Dezi
as they called me
00:37:37.09\00:37:38.65
in the street Dezi.
00:37:38.69\00:37:40.36
If I didn't know
you the way I know you,
00:37:40.39\00:37:42.26
you know, you'd be dead,
00:37:42.29\00:37:43.93
because, you know,
00:37:43.96\00:37:45.29
you'd have to put
$80,000 in my hand,
00:37:45.33\00:37:47.40
you know, by this
afternoon or else.
00:37:47.43\00:37:49.73
So that and a
few other skirmishes
00:37:49.76\00:37:52.63
I may say,
00:37:52.67\00:37:54.00
you know, started to
turn my head towards Christ.
00:37:54.04\00:37:58.44
And I had an incident
where I lost a friend.
00:37:58.47\00:38:03.31
She was a partner actually,
00:38:03.35\00:38:04.81
she didn't die but she ended up
00:38:04.85\00:38:07.78
having severe mental breakdowns,
00:38:07.82\00:38:11.95
and had to be institutionalized
for a short period of time.
00:38:11.99\00:38:15.22
And I remember
00:38:15.26\00:38:16.59
my first time
reaching out to God
00:38:16.62\00:38:19.03
was in effort
for God to reach her.
00:38:19.06\00:38:22.60
I remember one night
00:38:22.63\00:38:23.97
she was like
really having it bad
00:38:24.00\00:38:26.13
and hearing voices in the
wall and she'd strip herself
00:38:26.17\00:38:29.00
and ran in the streets and,
00:38:29.04\00:38:30.97
you know, and she was succumbing
00:38:31.01\00:38:32.91
to all of this stress.
00:38:32.94\00:38:34.28
She was a medical
student, she was brilliant also.
00:38:34.31\00:38:37.28
And I remember her saying,
"I don't know what to do."
00:38:37.31\00:38:41.75
And I said, "We have to pray,"
00:38:41.78\00:38:44.09
because she sensed the devil
00:38:44.12\00:38:45.49
trying to take
her life and she said,
00:38:45.52\00:38:46.99
"I don't know how to pray."
00:38:47.02\00:38:48.66
And then I said to her,
00:38:48.69\00:38:50.03
you know, "In my
mind I know how to pray,
00:38:50.06\00:38:53.96
I don't pray, you know, but...
00:38:54.00\00:38:55.46
But you've at
least heard about it,
00:38:55.50\00:38:57.37
you have been to church,
00:38:57.40\00:38:58.73
you have some kind of idea of...
00:38:58.77\00:39:00.10
And I prayed for and saw God act
00:39:00.14\00:39:04.64
within that
whole experience then,
00:39:04.67\00:39:06.71
then I started to question
God's existence after that.
00:39:06.74\00:39:10.35
You know, I started to ask
what happened the other day
00:39:10.38\00:39:13.01
when I prayed and that you.
00:39:13.05\00:39:14.65
So are you really
that intimate in my life,
00:39:14.68\00:39:17.99
you know, and I challenge God,
00:39:18.02\00:39:19.85
I remember when I
was driving to work,
00:39:19.89\00:39:21.36
I said, listen, I'm confused
about all of this stuff.
00:39:21.39\00:39:24.16
If you are real,
00:39:24.19\00:39:25.79
if you are more than just a
God that created this world.
00:39:25.83\00:39:29.26
If you are a God
00:39:29.30\00:39:30.63
that actually desires
an intimate relationship,
00:39:30.67\00:39:32.80
and you know me
and you care about
00:39:32.83\00:39:34.17
what I think of, what
I do daily, then let...
00:39:34.20\00:39:37.14
And I was about to
ask for some kind of sign,
00:39:37.17\00:39:40.44
you know, I
never even got there.
00:39:40.48\00:39:43.55
It's like the Holy
Spirit grabbed hold of me.
00:39:43.58\00:39:47.85
Brother, I can't explain,
00:39:47.88\00:39:49.22
I know everyone
00:39:49.25\00:39:50.59
has that experience
in life at least once.
00:39:50.62\00:39:51.95
The epiphany.
00:39:51.99\00:39:53.32
Yes, and I just remember crying,
00:39:53.36\00:39:55.96
you know, I was on Biscayne
Boulevard driving to work
00:39:55.99\00:39:58.96
and I was just,
00:39:58.99\00:40:00.33
tears just pouring down my face.
00:40:00.36\00:40:01.86
This sense of joy,
guilt lifted from my heart,
00:40:01.90\00:40:04.93
because remember,
00:40:04.97\00:40:06.30
I had all of
that past behind me,
00:40:06.33\00:40:08.17
and it was this sense of
through the Holy Spirit God
00:40:08.20\00:40:10.71
telling me, you belong to Me.
00:40:10.74\00:40:13.07
I have forgiven you for
all those choices you made,
00:40:13.11\00:40:15.84
all those wrong choices,
all those things you did,
00:40:15.88\00:40:18.25
go and sin no more.
00:40:18.28\00:40:19.61
You know, just follow Me,
and that began the transition,
00:40:19.65\00:40:23.08
I met my wife
shortly after that.
00:40:23.12\00:40:26.72
I was going to say that,
00:40:26.76\00:40:28.09
you know, it's such a blessing
when you come to the Lord,
00:40:28.12\00:40:30.69
how you have
that true inner peace.
00:40:30.73\00:40:33.19
You know, the world says
they have joy, and peace,
00:40:33.23\00:40:36.30
and all this stuff,
00:40:36.33\00:40:37.67
but the world
can't offer you peace,
00:40:37.70\00:40:39.33
the world
doesn't give you peace,
00:40:39.37\00:40:40.70
the world doesn't
give you true joy.
00:40:40.74\00:40:42.57
But when you come to the Lord,
00:40:42.60\00:40:43.94
you experience
that true inner peace
00:40:43.97\00:40:46.54
and God
forgiving you of your sins.
00:40:46.57\00:40:49.11
Yes. Amen.
00:40:49.14\00:40:50.48
How did you
become a pastor? Ooh!
00:40:50.51\00:40:55.62
Met my wife in '93.
00:40:55.65\00:40:59.19
Once like, and I was baptized
00:40:59.22\00:41:01.89
into the Adventist
Church about that time also.
00:41:01.92\00:41:05.16
Okay.
00:41:05.19\00:41:06.53
And once I...
00:41:06.56\00:41:08.56
Let me back up so, I
was raised an Adventist,
00:41:08.60\00:41:10.47
left the church at 13, I
think I was baptized at ten.
00:41:10.50\00:41:13.67
Okay.
00:41:13.70\00:41:15.07
Dr. Clifford
Jones, now president
00:41:15.10\00:41:18.41
of the Lake Region
Conference there in,
00:41:18.44\00:41:20.64
a former mentor
from New York also.
00:41:20.68\00:41:24.11
But because I left the
church and I had been engaged
00:41:24.15\00:41:27.08
in so many other belief systems.
00:41:27.12\00:41:29.72
At age 26,
00:41:29.75\00:41:32.02
I returned to the
church through a revival,
00:41:32.05\00:41:33.96
through that same
young lady I was praying for.
00:41:33.99\00:41:36.66
And it's a complete
different experience.
00:41:36.69\00:41:42.53
The doctrines, the
diet, the fundamental culture,
00:41:42.56\00:41:48.30
for the first time in my life,
00:41:48.34\00:41:49.67
I could see through all of that,
00:41:49.70\00:41:51.77
because I was well
familiar with all of that,
00:41:51.81\00:41:53.81
but it's like, all of that
00:41:53.84\00:41:56.14
I couldn't clearly
see Jesus through it.
00:41:56.18\00:41:59.61
You know, or I
couldn't see His divine love,
00:41:59.65\00:42:01.92
I couldn't see His grace, I
couldn't see His forgiveness.
00:42:01.95\00:42:04.32
What I could
clearly see was structure,
00:42:04.35\00:42:06.82
a fundamental
environment and obedience
00:42:06.86\00:42:09.26
but this stuff about
His grace, His forgiveness,
00:42:09.29\00:42:12.19
His mercy, His righteousness,
00:42:12.23\00:42:14.13
I couldn't clearly see that.
00:42:14.16\00:42:15.93
So now, I'm in the Seventh-day
Adventist Church by choice,
00:42:15.96\00:42:19.57
not because I was raised...
00:42:19.60\00:42:21.50
Oh, your grandmother.
Right, and all of that.
00:42:21.54\00:42:23.64
And what I wanted to do was to
00:42:23.67\00:42:28.18
if I had the
ability at that time,
00:42:28.21\00:42:31.65
if someone had said to
me, "Come with me to Timbuktu,
00:42:31.68\00:42:36.32
you know, come
with me to Calcutta,
00:42:36.35\00:42:38.35
come with me to
Bangkok or come with me
00:42:38.39\00:42:41.16
to the jungles
of Guyana or Brazil.
00:42:41.19\00:42:43.32
And just live there
00:42:43.36\00:42:45.16
and dedicate your
life to telling people,
00:42:45.19\00:42:47.16
I would have
done it immediately.
00:42:47.20\00:42:49.53
You know, the
opportunity just didn't surface
00:42:49.56\00:42:51.43
but what I want
to do in my heart
00:42:51.47\00:42:53.34
was to dedicate my
life to serving God,
00:42:53.37\00:42:55.90
for all that He had done for me
00:42:55.94\00:42:58.44
and for all
that He had forgiven,
00:42:58.47\00:43:01.68
I wanted to give back.
00:43:01.71\00:43:03.24
So I immersed myself
into a prison ministry,
00:43:03.28\00:43:06.05
just as I came in the church.
00:43:06.08\00:43:09.02
Was myself, a wonderful brother
by the name of Brother Perrin,
00:43:09.05\00:43:13.39
God bless his heart.
00:43:13.42\00:43:14.92
Took me under his
wing, we went down Miami,
00:43:14.96\00:43:17.96
we built up homeless
00:43:17.99\00:43:20.26
feeding programs
to feed the poor.
00:43:20.30\00:43:23.63
Fed sometimes in
excess of 300-400 people
00:43:23.67\00:43:27.64
of downtown Miami.
00:43:27.67\00:43:29.07
And those are the
things that I took joy in,
00:43:29.10\00:43:31.81
and then going into the
prison and the juvenile prisons
00:43:31.84\00:43:34.24
and so forth and
just sharing with people.
00:43:34.28\00:43:36.01
My own testimony like
I'm sharing right now.
00:43:36.04\00:43:38.48
And so that opened the door
for you to eventually become
00:43:38.51\00:43:40.95
a pastor later on.
00:43:40.98\00:43:42.32
Now, how long have you
been in ministry now roughly?
00:43:42.35\00:43:45.55
I graduated somewhere
in 2002 and I started work
00:43:45.59\00:43:48.99
with Illinois
Conference in 2008.
00:43:49.02\00:43:51.76
Okay, all right. Wow!
00:43:51.79\00:43:53.46
So when I...
00:43:53.50\00:43:56.30
While in Miami,
00:43:56.33\00:43:57.73
people would
always commend me and say,
00:43:57.77\00:44:00.57
"You really love ministry work,
you should become a pastor."
00:44:00.60\00:44:04.74
I had no desire to be a
pastor, but I kept hearing it,
00:44:04.77\00:44:08.54
hearing it, hearing it
and my mom encouraged me
00:44:08.58\00:44:10.15
to pray about it.
00:44:10.18\00:44:11.51
And then in '99,
00:44:11.55\00:44:12.88
I left Florida to
start seminary studies.
00:44:12.91\00:44:15.68
Remember, my prior
background was aviation.
00:44:15.72\00:44:19.82
Tell us about
your ministry, FREEZ,
00:44:19.85\00:44:22.99
what does that stand for?
00:44:23.02\00:44:24.36
FREEZ, well, FREEZ is
in its embryonic stage,
00:44:24.39\00:44:26.86
so there's no website currently.
00:44:26.90\00:44:30.47
As I shared, I pastor
a four church district,
00:44:30.50\00:44:33.40
I have four
churches and I am new
00:44:33.44\00:44:35.77
to that fourth church district,
this is my second year.
00:44:35.80\00:44:38.27
Okay.
00:44:38.31\00:44:39.64
So I'm still in
the developing process
00:44:39.67\00:44:43.75
as far as church leadership,
00:44:43.78\00:44:45.75
and you as a
pastor you understand,
00:44:45.78\00:44:49.15
you come into a new church,
00:44:49.18\00:44:50.52
there are things
that you have to address,
00:44:50.55\00:44:52.79
as we call enrich,
and you have to deal
00:44:52.82\00:44:55.32
with the needs
of the congregation.
00:44:55.36\00:44:56.99
So I'm still very much
immersed in enrich work
00:44:57.03\00:45:01.96
within my churches.
00:45:02.00\00:45:03.83
However, what I have envisioned
as soon as that balance
00:45:03.87\00:45:07.40
is out is establishing
00:45:07.44\00:45:09.80
and building on
this ministry, FREEZ,
00:45:09.84\00:45:11.67
the acronym is Friends
Reaching out Embracing,
00:45:11.71\00:45:17.65
Empowering Generation Z.
00:45:17.68\00:45:20.42
The Z generation.
00:45:20.45\00:45:21.92
So familiarizing
myself more and more
00:45:21.95\00:45:26.96
with different
facets of the community,
00:45:26.99\00:45:30.13
the basketball
leagues, I really love.
00:45:30.16\00:45:33.26
And one of my
churches I have an elder...
00:45:33.29\00:45:36.13
Two of my churches I have elders
00:45:36.16\00:45:37.53
that are leaders
within the leagues.
00:45:37.57\00:45:39.73
And it is just amazing to go out
00:45:39.77\00:45:42.24
and see these kids involved
00:45:42.27\00:45:44.21
and, you know, these are
kids that are not church going,
00:45:44.24\00:45:47.68
many of them.
00:45:47.71\00:45:49.04
But they join
with church going kids
00:45:49.08\00:45:51.31
to participate in the league
and where they witness too,
00:45:51.35\00:45:56.05
and through that relationship
00:45:56.08\00:45:58.32
some of them do
come into the church,
00:45:58.35\00:46:00.22
but there are other
facets that I'm looking at also.
00:46:00.26\00:46:04.89
As I get the time to
working with law enforcement,
00:46:04.93\00:46:08.53
primarily and
working with anti-gang units
00:46:08.56\00:46:12.67
and building relationship
00:46:12.70\00:46:14.44
with youth within the
impoverished community,
00:46:14.47\00:46:17.34
those who are at risk.
00:46:17.37\00:46:19.04
Because that's also what
I did for 15 years working
00:46:19.07\00:46:22.64
with the state of Michigan,
00:46:22.68\00:46:24.41
so I hope to build
00:46:24.45\00:46:25.78
that into a full blown
ministry in the future.
00:46:25.81\00:46:27.15
Which is great, that's great.
00:46:27.18\00:46:28.85
Because you're
pouring into the community,
00:46:28.88\00:46:31.92
you know, it sounds to me
like if your church was gone
00:46:31.95\00:46:35.36
or your ministry was
gone, they would notice.
00:46:35.39\00:46:38.59
You know, your
community would notice.
00:46:38.63\00:46:41.13
Should be. And
that's how it should be.
00:46:41.16\00:46:42.63
It should be, absolutely.
00:46:42.66\00:46:44.37
Is there an age limit
for the basketball team?
00:46:44.40\00:46:46.50
Oh, no. No, listen.
Bring Jason, we've got him.
00:46:46.53\00:46:49.60
I am not a baller,
right, let me confess.
00:46:49.64\00:46:52.11
When I was growing up
in Brooklyn, I got it...
00:46:52.14\00:46:55.11
'cause I was shorter they said
and you have some short guys
00:46:55.14\00:46:58.11
that are skilled,
but most of them are not,
00:46:58.15\00:47:00.15
and so I got frustrated,
00:47:00.18\00:47:01.82
and I would just
like kick the ball
00:47:01.85\00:47:03.92
and then go on
the side with the guys
00:47:03.95\00:47:05.65
who were throwing dice
00:47:05.69\00:47:07.02
while other guys were
playing ball or whatever.
00:47:07.06\00:47:09.02
Cee-lo and all that. Yeah.
00:47:09.06\00:47:10.49
So I didn't have patience.
00:47:10.53\00:47:11.93
But the Lord
brought you through a lot.
00:47:11.96\00:47:13.29
I didn't have patience
for playing basketball,
00:47:13.33\00:47:16.46
but anyway, I saw some
kids, we had the league playoff
00:47:16.50\00:47:21.57
in central Chicago
there two weeks ago.
00:47:21.60\00:47:25.17
And as young as
I saw this one kid,
00:47:25.21\00:47:28.01
he was about eight years old.
00:47:28.04\00:47:30.25
And it was just amazing to see
00:47:30.28\00:47:32.85
how this kid was
moving on the court.
00:47:32.88\00:47:35.62
Yeah, there I think one of them
that was at least five or six,
00:47:35.65\00:47:39.05
so no, you start early
00:47:39.09\00:47:40.82
all the way up
to collegiate age.
00:47:40.86\00:47:43.46
It's an awesome experience,
00:47:43.49\00:47:45.46
I encourage any
anyone in an urban community
00:47:45.49\00:47:47.66
that's part of a church,
00:47:47.70\00:47:49.03
that's not connected to
league, try to connect to one.
00:47:49.06\00:47:51.03
Well, I want to
point out for those
00:47:51.07\00:47:52.40
who may be in an
urban environment
00:47:52.43\00:47:53.77
and what Pastor
Lowe is talking about,
00:47:53.80\00:47:55.70
is that was what kept
00:47:55.74\00:47:57.07
the church together in Brooklyn,
00:47:57.11\00:47:58.81
in Bethel where I went to,
we connected with the community
00:47:58.84\00:48:01.41
through sports,
through basketball.
00:48:01.44\00:48:03.11
And in some churches
depending on where you are,
00:48:03.14\00:48:05.15
some people might say,
00:48:05.18\00:48:06.51
"Well, you know,
that's competitive sports,
00:48:06.55\00:48:08.62
we saw it as ministry,
00:48:08.65\00:48:10.45
because these young people
00:48:10.49\00:48:11.82
are going to be in the
local community centers,
00:48:11.85\00:48:13.89
they are going to be in the gym,
00:48:13.92\00:48:15.46
and the
community centers opened up
00:48:15.49\00:48:16.83
to keep them off the streets.
00:48:16.86\00:48:18.99
So when we establish programs,
00:48:19.03\00:48:21.13
we had a parameter
at our church at Bethel,
00:48:21.16\00:48:23.57
you know, if you were
not a member of the church,
00:48:23.60\00:48:25.07
you had to come to
church certain amount of times
00:48:25.10\00:48:28.17
to be on the team.
00:48:28.20\00:48:29.57
So the guys that
were not Adventists,
00:48:29.60\00:48:31.41
were not attending
church, they had to be there,
00:48:31.44\00:48:34.24
else they didn't
play on the team.
00:48:34.28\00:48:35.98
And so that's kind
00:48:36.01\00:48:37.35
of one of the
outreaches of Friends
00:48:37.38\00:48:40.72
Reaching out Empowering...
00:48:40.75\00:48:44.69
Embracing, Empowering...
00:48:44.72\00:48:46.09
Embracing,
Empowering the Generation Z.
00:48:46.12\00:48:48.02
Yup, yup, yup.
00:48:48.06\00:48:49.39
Law enforcement as I
said is the other complement.
00:48:49.42\00:48:51.89
I had that opportunity in Miami
to work with law enforcement.
00:48:51.93\00:48:55.96
There are lot of police officers
00:48:56.00\00:48:57.63
that want to help churches.
00:48:57.67\00:48:59.47
They see the value in it,
00:48:59.50\00:49:00.90
even those who
are not church going,
00:49:00.94\00:49:03.14
they do see the value in it.
00:49:03.17\00:49:04.67
And getting them involved
and getting them to be active
00:49:04.71\00:49:07.74
in reaching out to the children
in your community is an asset,
00:49:07.78\00:49:11.81
getting them to
build that relationship.
00:49:11.85\00:49:13.18
You recognize the term
FREEZ, that, we inner city kids,
00:49:13.21\00:49:17.09
when we hear that,
that's something bad,
00:49:17.12\00:49:18.45
as the cop pointed, got at you.
00:49:18.49\00:49:20.52
But this is FREEZ
for the right purpose,
00:49:20.56\00:49:22.96
for the right reason.
00:49:22.99\00:49:24.33
I like that because
somebody says FREEZ,
00:49:24.36\00:49:26.76
in your sense, it
mean stop in your tracks
00:49:26.80\00:49:28.60
and go in a different direction.
00:49:28.63\00:49:30.13
Because in the inner city,
00:49:30.17\00:49:31.50
the word freeze is a
word you don't want to hear.
00:49:31.53\00:49:33.70
Right.
Especially, young black men.
00:49:33.74\00:49:36.00
And, but if you
look back on your life
00:49:36.04\00:49:37.87
and I know that
you probably caught
00:49:37.91\00:49:39.24
this is all the things
you went through in New York,
00:49:39.27\00:49:42.78
the Lord brought you out
of a pretty much a garden
00:49:42.81\00:49:44.85
of Eden setting, not
that Guyana was perfect,
00:49:44.88\00:49:47.98
but brought you out of a
very laid back community.
00:49:48.02\00:49:52.52
Planted you out in
the middle of a city
00:49:52.55\00:49:54.79
that honed your mind to now deal
00:49:54.82\00:49:57.69
with where you're living.
00:49:57.73\00:49:59.69
See, so you know and understand
the culture in the big cities,
00:49:59.73\00:50:03.60
Chicago is a
very challenging city,
00:50:03.63\00:50:06.17
is that an understatement?
00:50:06.20\00:50:07.60
Oh, no. Not at all.
00:50:07.64\00:50:09.10
So on your day-by-day basis,
because I know up in Chicago,
00:50:09.14\00:50:11.71
I mean, when we went
to church in the cities,
00:50:11.74\00:50:14.04
we lock the doors of our car,
00:50:14.08\00:50:16.31
you know, the church was locked,
00:50:16.34\00:50:18.55
the sound system was locked.
00:50:18.58\00:50:20.42
You know, everything in a church
00:50:20.45\00:50:21.78
was on a lock.
00:50:21.82\00:50:23.15
How is it in the city now?
00:50:23.18\00:50:24.52
In ministry is it
still challenging?
00:50:24.55\00:50:26.49
Three of my
churches are in urban...
00:50:26.52\00:50:29.19
Sorry, a suburban setting. Okay.
00:50:29.22\00:50:31.26
One is in an urban setting,
00:50:31.29\00:50:32.63
that's the New
Heights Church in Markham,
00:50:32.66\00:50:35.00
but I recall, I did
my internship at Shiloh.
00:50:35.03\00:50:39.07
And while working at
Shiloh as a seminary pastor.
00:50:39.10\00:50:44.61
Going door to door
00:50:44.64\00:50:46.74
within that
community, Michigan Avenue,
00:50:46.78\00:50:48.41
you know, the whole area there.
00:50:48.44\00:50:49.81
Oh, yeah.
00:50:49.84\00:50:51.18
When I would greet residents,
00:50:51.21\00:50:53.95
they opened their door
and start to talk to them,
00:50:53.98\00:50:56.15
they say, "Where
you say you're from?"
00:50:56.18\00:50:58.62
Such and such and such
in the Charlotte Church,
00:50:58.65\00:51:01.42
"You came here by yourself?
00:51:01.46\00:51:03.06
How do you got up here?"
I say, "Yeah, I came here."
00:51:03.09\00:51:05.63
All the way up here,
00:51:05.66\00:51:07.00
you know, somebody
on the 8th, 10th, floor
00:51:07.03\00:51:08.36
would have, you
know, "Nobody stopped?"
00:51:08.40\00:51:09.73
"No."
00:51:09.76\00:51:11.10
"You ain't scared." No.
00:51:11.13\00:51:12.47
Since you came out of Brooklyn.
00:51:12.50\00:51:14.70
It's second nature,
it was second nature,
00:51:14.74\00:51:17.94
working for the
state in Michigan,
00:51:17.97\00:51:19.87
I had clients
that would tell me,
00:51:19.91\00:51:21.78
you know, Mr. Lowe don't
come around here at 9 o'clock,
00:51:21.81\00:51:24.65
don't come right
here after sunset.
00:51:24.68\00:51:27.02
I would still show up,
I need you to sign this,
00:51:27.05\00:51:29.05
you know, we need
to talk about this,
00:51:29.08\00:51:30.45
you got a court
data, you don't know,
00:51:30.49\00:51:31.99
I need to let you
know, you know, whatever.
00:51:32.02\00:51:33.76
And they would always react
with surprise, but once again,
00:51:33.79\00:51:36.32
I have no anxiety
for going anywhere.
00:51:36.36\00:51:40.46
That's an amazing story.
00:51:40.50\00:51:42.23
You know, there are those
if you're watching the program
00:51:42.26\00:51:43.93
and listening that
may want to get in touch
00:51:43.97\00:51:45.33
with Pastor Lowe,
00:51:45.37\00:51:46.94
and at this following
00:51:46.97\00:51:48.47
email address
Deslo@SBCGlobal.net.
00:51:48.50\00:51:54.11
That's Deslo@SBCGlobal.net.
00:51:54.14\00:51:58.28
Send him an email there
and invite him to your church
00:51:58.31\00:52:01.22
or your community,
00:52:01.25\00:52:02.58
because his story
is much larger than
00:52:02.62\00:52:04.39
we can cover in
a short time here
00:52:04.42\00:52:05.85
on the program.
00:52:05.89\00:52:07.22
And I'm looking
forward to hearing
00:52:07.26\00:52:08.59
the expanded version,
maybe at pastors' meetings
00:52:08.62\00:52:10.06
or have you come down
00:52:10.09\00:52:11.43
and share our story,
or maybe invite us up,
00:52:11.46\00:52:12.89
so we can see
00:52:12.93\00:52:14.26
what it's like
there in the city,
00:52:14.30\00:52:15.63
where God has
called you to minister.
00:52:15.66\00:52:17.83
We're going to
take a short newsbreak
00:52:17.87\00:52:19.47
and after that we'll come back
with a few closing thoughts.
00:52:19.50\00:52:22.90