Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY018012A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:19 Removing pain 00:24 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:09 Hello, and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:12 And I'm here with my co-host... All right. 01:16 Danny Shelton, my husband. 01:18 And we are just so happy to be here. 01:19 I'm so excited. Oh, absolutely. 01:22 I'm super excited. Nothing like having family. 01:23 I know it. I know it. 01:25 My family is here today. 01:27 And so actually I always prefer for Danny to be in this seat 01:30 and for me to be in the co-host seat, 01:33 but he wanted me to be in the seat. 01:34 I took a back seat today 01:36 'cause, you know, who knows more about 01:37 family than family, right? 01:39 Well, that's true. That's true. 01:40 And I get to introduce my family to you because... 01:45 Well, let me just introduce them first, 01:47 and then I'll tell you about them. 01:48 So this is my aunt Jocelyn Thomas, 01:51 my uncle Claude Thomas, 01:53 and my cousin Pattie Conwell, 01:55 Pattie Thomas Conwell, their daughter. 01:58 And my whole life... 02:04 there are certain couples that just stand out, 02:08 there are certain couples that you just say, 02:10 "You know what? 02:11 When I get married, I want a marriage like that." 02:15 And that's what all of my friends 02:19 and all of our family thinks about 02:21 Uncle Jackie and Aunt Joe. 02:24 Oh, the Lord be praised. Lord be praised. 02:26 Well, it's so obvious that the Lord 02:28 is at the center of your relationship, 02:31 and today, we're going to talk about 02:34 the relationship that they have, 02:36 and how they got there, 02:38 and the book that they have that Pattie has written 02:42 that they've written together. 02:45 So we're just going to look at 02:47 what goes into a really solid relationship. 02:51 There are people out here who are really hurting 02:54 because they don't know how to have 02:57 a good, strong relationship. 02:59 And I know no better couple 03:02 to tell us about that than you two. 03:05 The old saying says, "Pray church." 03:07 Yeah. Right. 03:10 So we want to talk about how you guys met, 03:13 and we actually have a little clip 03:16 that we're going to show in just a second on how you met 03:20 because it's important to just set the foundation here, 03:25 how did you guys get together, so let's take a look. 03:29 I was the youth leader for the church 03:31 in Buffalo, New York, where dad was the pastor. 03:34 I was working in New York as a public health nurse, 03:37 but I was also the youth leader, 03:39 and my friend Pearl was there. 03:40 I heard about Claude, 03:43 and we had a lot of fun talking about the possibility 03:46 that he might be somebody that we would be interested, 03:50 and I would be interested in. 03:52 And so we decided to go, 03:53 and we decided to go looking good. 03:55 She was single, and I was single, 03:57 and we said, "We're going to go with our catch 'em suits. 04:04 My Aunt Thelma and Uncle called me, "Why don't you go?" 04:09 And I was not particular about it. 04:11 I wasn't going to go. 04:14 But it was too recent for me. 04:17 Then I knew a lot of people who were going to be there, 04:18 we'll have you there, 04:20 I wouldn't know, and all of that. 04:21 So I didn't want to answer a whole lot of questions 04:26 or hang on a whole lot of condolences. 04:31 So I made my mind, I wasn't going, 04:35 but my chaplain wanted to go. 04:39 He was a kid too eager to go. 04:42 Then I finally said, "Okay." 04:43 Then I drove him down. 04:46 Jackie had married his teen heartthrob 04:48 Carol Laverne Jones in September, 1953. 04:52 Tragically, she passed away on October 23, 1964, 04:58 leaving him and three children, Jackie Jr., 10 years old, 05:03 Brian, 7 years old, and Pattie, 3 years old. 05:08 Family members of Joe felt 05:09 Jackie made a good catch for Joe. 05:12 So the plan was to introduce them to each other 05:14 during Youth Congress. 05:16 So that Sabbath evening, 05:19 one of my classmates was doing a concert there at the hall, 05:23 and I still had on my outfit from Sabbath. 05:28 And I found myself walking down the hall, 05:34 down one of the aisles of the auditorium, 05:37 and Robert's aunt, we called her... 05:40 Aunt Francis. 05:41 Aunt Francis, she saw me, 05:44 and she said, "Oh, Joe, have you met Jackie?" 05:47 I said, "No, dear." 05:49 And she grabbed my hand 05:51 and snatched me with great zeal. 05:54 And she starts marching me to wherever you were. 05:57 And on the way to wherever you were sitting, 06:02 "Joe, now this is a man 06:04 that's going to be your husband." 06:06 That was the voice that said to me clearly, out of the blue. 06:10 It wasn't a startling effect, no one else heard it but I did. 06:15 And so I went on to meet the man. 06:17 And Aunt Francis ran up, 06:22 "Jackie, I have somebody I want you to meet." 06:25 And when he got up, he stepped back. 06:29 Beautiful young lady there on dressed in red bow hair, 06:34 and black patterned leather shoes, 06:38 beautiful hat, black hat. 06:42 And that's it? 06:44 Pretty much. 06:45 They went their separate ways 06:46 and back to their separate lives. 06:49 But obviously, it didn't end there. 06:52 Oh, no. 06:55 That video was so nice, wasn't it? 06:57 Absolutely. Where do you come from? 06:59 Where did you guys... 07:00 Well, Pattie and her brothers, 07:03 well, Pattie's really the lead person here, 07:06 put together a 50th wedding anniversary celebration for us. 07:12 So she went through all our pictures 07:14 and just put everything together. 07:16 It was really well done. 07:18 And that's how it all came about. 07:21 Wow. 07:22 Putting this picture together for everyone, 07:23 our friends to see. 07:25 You know, I remember when after Aunt Carol died, 07:32 she had left three children, 07:36 and watching that brought tears to my eyes 07:39 because you stepped into a situation 07:43 that was really a difficult situation to step into. 07:48 A preexisting family, 07:51 and you had never had any children of your own, 07:53 and you stepped in as their mom, 07:57 as really as their mom. 07:59 What was going on in your mind about then, Aunt Joe? 08:03 Oh, really, very interesting thing is 08:05 when God does something, 08:08 everything fits, everything fits. 08:11 Ever since I was a little girl, I've been working... 08:13 Let's go back when I was 11 years old, 08:16 my dad was a pastor. 08:17 Of course, his wife, my mom, worked with him. 08:20 And I worked in the credit roll division. 08:22 I taught this credit rolls children. 08:24 I was always around children, and I always loved children. 08:28 I had a lot of teddy bears and stuffed animals 08:30 because they were my children. 08:36 In fact, when I first heard of Uncle Jackie, 08:39 and someone mentioned, "You know, there's a young man, 08:42 his wife died, blah, blah, blah." 08:44 I said, "No, that wouldn't be for me 08:46 because I want to start from scratch. 08:49 Honey and me and then baby makes three, 08:51 so that was just the bottom line. 08:53 That's not what God had in mind. 08:55 But when he introduced me to this man, 08:58 it was just an automatic thing. 08:59 Everything just went into play. Wow. 09:02 And then, of course, our daughter, 09:05 she was the first one to say that, 09:07 "That's our new mommy." 09:08 Aw. She just... 09:11 It's amazing when you hear the story 09:13 how the Lord had really put things together. 09:14 And our oldest son said that, 09:16 you know, he's always been older in mind, 09:18 we tease him and call him "the old man". 09:21 But he said, "Daddy needs a wife." 09:23 "Knowing he's a man, and he needs a wife," 09:25 that's what our son said, that the baby says. 09:29 And what did Brian call you? 09:32 Pattie said, "That's our new mommy." 09:35 And Brain said... 09:37 Brian was the one that held out. 09:38 And he is the middle one. 09:39 He is the middle one, 09:41 and I always tell him he's special. 09:42 I hugged him before we came up here, 09:44 and I said, "Brian, you know you're special 09:46 because daddy had told them that he wouldn't marry anyone 09:50 unless they, the three children, 09:53 agree to it, 09:55 so, and he told me, he said, 09:57 "Joe, if the children don't agree, 09:58 you know, we will not be able to get married." 10:01 So when Brian... 10:03 Brian held out on that whole thing. 10:07 The two, the older and the youngest, were with it, 10:11 the middle boy said, "Okay, I'm going to check this out, so..." 10:15 See, Pattie was really answering Brian. 10:18 Brian said, "Is that your new girlfriend?" 10:22 Pattie said, "No, that's our new mommy." 10:25 And then we went to the new... Psychics. 10:27 To the World's Fair in New York, 10:29 and Brian walked up to us, 10:33 daddy and I were sitting on a bench, 10:34 he said, "It's okay, Daddy, 10:37 you can go ahead and get married." 10:38 What? After how long? 10:39 Oh, we'd been what? 10:42 It was just six months before we got married 10:44 when we first met to when we got married, 10:45 it was just six months. 10:47 So it was in between there somewhere. 10:49 Wow. 10:50 Uncle Jackie, what were you thinking? 10:52 What were you thinking when you first met Aunt Joe? 10:55 What were you thinking? 10:59 Oh, how fine she was. 11:07 That's through his eye. That's through his eyes, folks. 11:10 Absolutely. 11:13 It drummed up all my manners, and I stood up. 11:19 Oh, yes, he did. 11:21 And I said, "Hello..." 11:23 Oh, he had a deep voice, "Well, hello." 11:28 She dramatizes it. 11:30 That's the way it came across. 11:34 And I was sitting there with a young lady that I knew. 11:40 And I had really kind of come to this thing with you... 11:48 'cause I met her as soon as we got into the city and all. 11:53 And I asked her to come sit with us. 11:57 But once we met... Who met? 12:01 My aunt took over, once, Joe and I met. 12:03 Okay, yeah. Oh, I see. 12:05 When I came up on the scene, 12:07 he is with this lovely young lady, 12:09 I don't know anything, so it doesn't... 12:11 Yeah, I'm not startled or being concerned. 12:14 But then Aunt Thelma came along and took the girl. 12:18 Moved her out. And took her, just moved. 12:20 Moved her away. 12:22 Aunt Thelma is his aunt. 12:24 It's like his... It is his mother's sister. 12:27 She was his mother's sister. 12:28 My mother died early. 12:30 Yeah, so I mean she loved this boy here. 12:33 Oh, yes. I know that. She loved. 12:34 Aunt Thelma loved him, 12:36 so she's going to take care of business. 12:37 Okay. 12:39 So how quickly, Aunt Joe, just before she met you, 12:44 the Lord spoke to her and said, 12:45 "This is going to be your husband." 12:46 How far after meeting her, how long after meeting her, 12:50 did you have that same impression 12:53 that she was going be your wife? 12:55 When we left each other. 12:58 From that weekend? 12:59 After that meeting, we were there for Youth Congress. 13:03 And then we had dispersed, gone home. 13:05 I went to Buffalo, and he went to New York. 13:08 And when I got home, 13:12 I just couldn't get her out of my mind. 13:16 And that whole weekend, I just... 13:19 So I finally called and talked to her parents. 13:24 I wasn't there yet 13:26 because I hadn't gotten home yet. 13:27 She hadn't gotten, or she had gone to take back 13:29 the young people she had brought to that meeting. 13:32 Youth Congress. 13:34 And I enquired about her and all, 13:37 and they had been told by her, 13:43 "What was to be, and this is my... 13:46 I met the man I'm going to marry." 13:47 Yeah, I called we were... So they were aware. 13:49 Yeah, right. 13:50 I called my parents, 13:51 at the hotel we were both at the same meeting, 13:53 and said, "I met the man I'm going to marry." 13:55 They said, "What?" 13:57 You know, and... 13:58 So when I called, they were ready for me. 14:02 Telling you had children. 14:04 No, but see, the interesting thing is, Danny, 14:06 that this man was on the conference committee 14:10 with my father. 14:11 Oh, okay. 14:13 So they knew each other. 14:14 Okay, all right. 14:15 And so that everything was in place. 14:20 Everything was in place. 14:22 So when I got to the house, 14:25 mom and dad told me about Jackie called, 14:28 I said, "Oh, okay." 14:30 I didn't think anymore about it. 14:32 I was expecting him to call me back 14:34 'cause he didn't get me the first time 14:36 when he never called. 14:38 So I'm sitting there, waiting for him to call, 14:40 and he's sitting there waiting for me to call. 14:43 The first argument we had. 14:45 The first argument. 14:46 To this day, we still... 14:47 It's still a little fresh. Yeah. 14:51 Because I told him, "I don't call men." 14:54 You know, I try to tell women, "You are the prize. 14:57 You're it." 14:59 And that's the object of their goal 15:01 is to find this prize, 15:03 this diamond. 15:05 So I was waiting for him to call the diamond. 15:11 Because I had told them, 15:14 "Be sure and tell her that I called." 15:16 I didn't know his name. 15:18 All I knew was Jackie, and you know that's a nickname. 15:20 Right. I didn't know his phone number. 15:22 We didn't have those kind of phones like we have today. 15:24 Right. 15:26 With the numbers left... I didn't have any of that. 15:28 So, you know, then what was interesting, 15:31 that was in April, 15:34 that was the end of April, honey? 15:36 The end of April? It was beginning of spring. 15:38 Right. 15:40 So a camp meeting was coming up for Northeastern in New York, 15:43 and my girlfriend said, "Let's go." 15:46 My parents said, "We'll take you." 15:47 I said, "No, I'm not going. I might see him. 15:49 He might think I'm running after him. 15:51 I'm not going." 15:53 And I would not go to camp meeting 15:55 knowing that he was going to be there. 15:58 So you guys didn't even connect. 15:59 'Cause we didn't... He didn't... 16:01 After he made the call, 16:02 and my parents answered the phone, 16:04 I never heard from him again, 16:09 but I knew God had told me, "This is the man." 16:11 So this is not for me to be involved with, so. 16:15 But once I had made the call... 16:17 This is our argument. This is our argument. 16:18 Once I had made the call... 16:20 I'm with you right now. 16:22 I know you know, Uncle Jackie, I'm with you. 16:24 And I said, "Be sure and tell her that I called." 16:29 You know, and then after I didn't hear anything. 16:32 And my mind started working and I said, 16:35 "Now what would she want 16:37 with a man with three children?" 16:39 So he is beginning to doubt himself now. 16:42 I went through all of that. Okay. 16:44 You know, I said, "She wouldn't want to... 16:46 She's never been married." 16:47 So, yeah, we got to find out, 16:49 so what finally made the change? 16:50 Where did you see each other next? 16:52 My father... Who called who? 16:54 So camp meeting comes up. 16:56 I didn't go because I didn't want to seem forward, 16:59 that's the word I think I want to use. 17:00 That's my make up. Okay. 17:04 So my daddy sees him, my daddy is West Indian, okay. 17:08 Was a very strong presentation of himself. 17:13 Okay. 17:14 "Young man, what happened to you? 17:19 We didn't hear anymore from you." 17:22 And after that, letters started coming. 17:24 Without letting me notice, she was still interested. 17:27 And the family was still interested. 17:29 So I called her. All right. 17:31 And the rest is history. 17:33 And invited her... Oh, my. 17:36 To another camp meeting, the Pine Forge camp meeting. 17:39 Okay. Allegheny East. 17:40 And that I would drive up and... 17:43 Pick her up. Pick her up... 17:45 And let me drive on up. 17:46 Drive to the new camp meeting. 17:47 Now, Yvonne, you know, I come from old-timers. 17:51 My mom said, "I don't think that will be good, Joe. 17:54 Why don't you invite him to come to Buffalo." 17:56 That's where we lived. Right. 17:58 "So why don't you have him come and spend a week with us." 18:01 That's what we did. Okay. 18:03 You know, it's very good, Danny, 18:04 to listen to godly parents. 18:09 In today's climate, I don't know that young people, 18:11 they would say, "They're old-timer..." 18:13 But there's good wisdom in listening to those 18:17 who've been here before. 18:19 Absolutely. 18:20 So we didn't go, he came to Buffalo where I was. 18:23 We had the best of times. 18:25 And the thing of it is, when he came to Buffalo, 18:28 everything clicked. 18:32 Where were we in weekend? 18:33 I'm telling you that we went to church that Sabbath, 18:36 I was so proud to have him on my arm. 18:38 You know, my arm on his arm to go in the church... 18:41 And everybody see me with this man. 18:44 And it's important to know that 18:45 this is only the second time they'd seen each other. 18:47 Right. Right, that is important. 18:49 The second time, they were seeing each other. 18:51 And he had to leave Saturday night, 18:54 he came on a bus, 18:56 he was going to take a bus back. 18:57 And so we were sitting down in my parent's... 19:00 I lived with my parents until I got married. 19:03 Folks would say, "You live with your parents? 19:05 You were grown and work..." 19:06 I said, "Yes, I live with my parents. 19:09 And I love my parents." 19:11 Actually, I left on Sunday. 19:13 Okay, was it Sunday? 19:15 That was Sunday. Saturday night. 19:16 Oh, Saturday night, okay. 19:17 But Saturday night, I'm sitting... 19:19 Was it Sunday night we were talking in the living room 19:20 when daddy came in the midst? 19:22 Yeah, it was Saturday. 19:25 We went to Niagara Falls. Okay. 19:28 And we, on the way there and back to her house, 19:34 I guess we talked about everything. 19:35 Everything, the children, life, marriage, 19:39 everything that you would 19:40 need to talk about before you get married. 19:42 Philosophy of life. Yeah. 19:44 From A to Z. Yeah. 19:46 So you spent hours just talking about life? 19:49 That Saturday night, we talked for about three, four hours, 19:54 we came back, and then the next Sunday, 19:57 we were talking again. 19:59 And, in fact, we were sitting in my parent's living room 20:05 just talking about... 20:07 He was getting close to saying, "Will you marry me?" 20:09 And my dad comes down from upstairs... 20:13 Talk about timing. 20:14 And sits right in the midst of us. 20:15 "Well, all right, how're we doing?" 20:19 But I have a very smart mother, 20:22 mother said, "Honey, I need you to come 20:24 upstairs a minute, dear." 20:27 She took him out of the way. 20:28 Oh, good, good. 20:30 Took daddy out of the mix, and life went on, 20:33 you know, and then... 20:34 I gave her a few more nuggets to think about, 20:37 you know, not like I'm going to stop, go ahead. 20:39 Yeah, you were going, getting ready 20:41 to take the bus to go back, 20:42 and I was in the kitchen fixing a lunch 20:44 for my husband to take... 20:46 Your future husband. 20:47 Yeah, for my... 20:49 Intended. For my intended. 20:51 Intended, right. 20:52 My God given gift. God given gift. 20:54 And my mother walked by 20:56 'cause where I was standing here 20:57 fixing the sandwich over there in the living room, 21:01 you could kind of see in, 21:02 and my husband was sitting there, 21:03 but she didn't want him to hear. 21:05 So she said to him... 21:07 She came by and said to me, 21:08 "Why don't you put a little letter? 21:10 Put a little letter in that lunch." 21:12 I said, "Wow, Mom, that is really sharp. 21:15 That's cool." 21:18 So I wrote him a nice letter, put it in the lunch, 21:21 and he said he opened it down the road 21:23 when he got ready to eat your lunch. 21:24 Good reading. Good reading. 21:27 And the rest... Well, he asked me... 21:29 Whoa, I drove him to the bus station, 21:32 and the bus was supposed to leave at 12 midnight. 21:36 And he was talking about, 21:38 you know, "It's so much easier 21:40 if two people live in the same home." 21:44 He was going around the bush to say will you marry me. 21:47 So he had to hurry because the bus is about to leave... 21:50 So he finally said, "Would you marry me?" 21:53 And how did you put it, Jackie? 21:54 'Cause you didn't say it right. I don't remember. 21:55 I don't remember. 21:57 And, of course... But it was a second date. 21:58 It was our second date, and I said yes. 22:00 Okay on a second date. And we had never kissed. 22:04 But when I said yes, we kissed. 22:08 Okay. 22:10 And the next time I saw him, was it our wedding? 22:13 No, when I got home. To New York. 22:18 In New York, 22:20 my brother came to pick me up 22:27 and asked me about the trip, "How was it?" 22:30 I said, "Fine." 22:34 And when I told him, 22:35 that's a second time I'd just seen her. 22:37 Right. 22:39 "I asked her to marry me." 22:41 He said, "What? 22:45 You did what?" 22:49 Total disbelief. 22:52 And I said, "I don't know, man. 22:55 I can't explain it to you. 22:58 It just happened." 22:59 Well, see, you had to remember God told us, told me, 23:04 well, before that, Yvonne and Danny, 23:06 I had told the Lord if I get married 23:10 because a lot of women don't get to marry, 23:12 there're just not suitable men to marry, 23:14 and there's a shortage of men. 23:16 So I said, "Lord, if I'm to get married, 23:17 you be the one, I give you permission." 23:19 Can you imagine me giving God permission 23:22 to choose my husband? 23:24 Because He says, "He will not force us." 23:28 He offers us salvation, 23:30 but He does not force it on you. 23:32 So I took Him at His word, and I said, 23:35 "Lord, You'll be the one to choose for me 23:37 because I want this to be right." 23:38 That's good. 23:39 I think we have a video of your wedding. 23:41 I think we want to show a bit of that in a second 23:45 because, you guys, after six months, 23:50 six months you were married. 23:53 Married. Six months. 23:54 Let's take a look at the video. 23:56 Tell us what's going on here? 23:59 Okay, I can't see, that's daddy is singing to me. 24:03 I've come down the aisle, and he is now singing to me. 24:06 Oh, ain't that sweet? 24:08 And then little Brian sang his heart out. 24:10 He sang the Lord's prayer. 24:13 He was so precious. 24:16 Pattie was in the wedding. 24:20 That's so sweet. 24:21 The three children were in the wedding, 24:24 of course, part of the wedding. 24:25 We had five, 24:27 or was it six little bridesmaids and little... 24:33 Flower girl and... And then the grown up. 24:35 Junior groom and junior bridesmaids. 24:37 Right. 24:38 So it was just precious. 24:40 So he is singing to me, 24:42 and I'm looking straight in his eyes. 24:45 And there they are. There's the group. 24:47 Yeah. The wedding is over. 24:49 With these hands. 24:51 And the children think they're going on the honeymoon. 24:54 So they all look very sad. They've found out. 24:58 They found out that they weren't going. 25:00 But when we got back to the house 25:02 after the reception, 25:06 Pattie held on to my hand. 25:09 She was going. 25:11 That's bottom, she is going. Right. 25:13 They had to pull her away, and it broke our hearts, 25:15 just broke my heart. 25:17 Yes. You know. 25:18 So Pattie attached to you very early. 25:20 Right away. 25:21 Yes. Right away. 25:23 Yvonne and Danny, when God's in it, it's perfect. 25:26 That's just the bottom line. That's true. 25:28 It doesn't mean you're not going to have 25:29 problems and situations, 25:31 but God is, that's who He is, 25:32 He handles everything for us. 25:35 And as a result of knowing that 25:38 God's been at the center and all this, 25:41 you have written a book called Becoming a Professional Lover. 25:47 Yes. I love this one. 25:48 Now I love that title too. 25:50 And Claude Jr. and Jocelyn Thomas 25:53 with Patrice Thomas Conwell. 25:55 Tell us about this book? 25:57 Tell us how it came to be, you know? 25:59 And, Pattie, I want to hear from you too 26:01 on how this book came to be 26:05 because you guys are professional lovers, 26:07 I'm telling you. 26:08 One of the things that just came to me recently, 26:10 the word "becoming". 26:13 We were always becoming like God. 26:15 Okay. 26:16 We are not going to be like God. 26:18 We'll be becoming like Him. 26:19 We'll never be God. 26:22 We don't want to be that, but we want to be like Him. 26:23 It was based on the biblical statement. 26:25 Right. God is love. 26:26 Right. 26:29 We were always growing 26:30 into His likeness 26:33 and getting better and better at it 26:36 as we go along. 26:37 But the Professional Lover name actually came from dad. 26:41 When they would do marriage and family life 26:44 seminars and workshops, 26:46 he would start off by saying 26:48 that he was a professional lover, 26:51 and, of course, that got, you know... 26:53 In the audience, the folks would go... 26:55 "My man, you know, right, 26:57 you know, he is a professional lover." 26:59 That kind of thing. 27:00 And he used that term on purpose 27:05 really to demonstrate 27:08 that learning how to love professionally, 27:12 whatever you do anything professionally, 27:13 it takes time, it takes studying, 27:16 it takes practice, it takes mastery of those skills, 27:20 and that's the whole premise of using 27:23 that term professional lover, 27:24 not that you have any special, 27:27 you know, draw or charm, 27:32 but that you have spent the time 27:34 necessary to be a professional at doing something, 27:39 which in this case is loving. 27:41 And what's so great, to me, 27:43 one of the things that's so great about this book 27:45 is that it keeps the Lord at the center. 27:49 All of these chapters have to do with biblical principles. 27:54 This is not just people sitting down surmising how things is... 28:00 I think earlier you were saying, Pattie, 28:02 that this is based on 28:04 their whole relationship, tell us about that? 28:06 Actually, how it came about was as we were preparing 28:09 for their 50th anniversary celebration, 28:13 I asked them to give me 50 tips 28:17 that I could put together to hand out as a bookmark 28:21 to those who came to celebrate with them. 28:24 And it's called... 28:25 I called it Joe and Jackie's 50 ways to keep your lover. 28:29 Kind of a playoff of the... Of the song. 28:31 The song, right. 28:33 And so I put these 50 tips in this bookmark 28:37 and gave them out to the people who came as a thank you. 28:43 Not long after that, 28:44 mom started getting phone calls from people 28:47 saying, "Joe, do you have anymore of those bookmarks? 28:50 I've got a son who's just getting ready to get married. 28:53 Or I have a nephew who, 28:55 you know, is talking about getting married, 28:56 and I want to give them." 28:58 So I started thinking, 29:00 of course, you know, the people are showing 29:03 a lot of interest in these tips. 29:05 Maybe we need to do something with the tips. 29:09 And, you know, the Lord impressed me with the book, 29:14 and then Alton, my husband, 29:16 suggested making it a devotional. 29:18 And we knew it couldn't be a daily devotional. 29:20 We only had 50 tips. 29:22 But if you add a two, 29:24 it could become a weekly devotional. 29:26 There you go. 29:27 And that's how we decided on making it a weekly devotional. 29:30 So each of the tips 29:32 are from their own marital journey 29:36 and come from also what they would teach other couples 29:40 in their marriage and family life seminars 29:43 on what it takes to create and maintain 29:47 and nurture a strong relationship. 29:50 That's good. 29:51 So you wrote the book out of demand, popular demand? 29:56 I don't know about popular but yes. 29:57 Starting from the 50 there, right? 30:00 And then going on, but when you say 30:03 "the Lord sets things up." 30:04 Yes, He does. 30:05 And it's like, you know, it's just not happenstance 30:09 that you have a daughter who is a prolific writer. 30:11 Yeah, she is. 30:12 And so to be able to put this together... 30:14 Right. And we went through... 30:16 Why don't you read some of the chapter titles... 30:17 Yes. I want to do that. 30:18 Because I'm going to show you, and those of you at home, 30:21 you're going to want this book. 30:23 And it's something I wish I could've read 30:26 maybe a long time ago. 30:28 And probably some of you are thinking the same thing, 30:30 "I wish I would've." 30:32 But we want you to get this book. 30:33 We'll tell you how you can do so in a little bit. 30:36 Bunch of great titles. 30:37 Pattern your love after Christ and His church. 30:42 That's week one, week two is structure your love 30:44 around all the principles in 1 Corinthians 13. 30:48 And then week... 30:51 I won't read 52, but I'll just give you some. 30:52 Yeah, sure. 30:53 Another one is love is a commitment, not a feeling. 30:56 I want to stop there for a second 30:58 because there are so many people who'll say, 31:02 "I just don't love him anymore. 31:04 Or I just don't love her anymore." 31:07 What do you say to people who come to you for counseling 31:12 because that is what you have been doing all these years? 31:17 What do you say to people who say, 31:19 "I just don't feel it anymore for my spouse?" 31:23 But I'll let them know that prolific writer, 31:27 Ellen White, commented on that 31:31 in one of her books, Steps to Christ. 31:34 And her statement was that love is not a feeling, 31:41 it's a principle. 31:44 It's a combination of thoughts and actions 31:50 and would have you 31:53 that deepen relationships. 31:57 It's a way of behaving. 31:58 It's a way of behaving. A way of behaving. 32:01 Right. 32:02 And then I thought about 32:06 the text in the Bible that said 32:09 that when the Lord asked Jesus, 32:16 "What must you do to be saved?" 32:17 He said, "You must love the Lord, your God, 32:20 with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, 32:23 and your neighbor as yourself." 32:24 And then the whole story about 32:27 how Jesus talked about the Samaritan 32:30 who fixed up the man, 32:31 the Jewish man that had been hurt by the road 32:37 and the relationship between the Samaritans and the Jews, 32:42 they do not like each other. 32:44 And out of that came a principle 32:48 that I began to teach in my classes. 32:51 I taught marriage and family 32:52 at Oakwood University for some years, 32:57 that love for me then became 33:04 doing what you have to do with what resources 33:07 that you have available to you 33:11 to meet the legitimate needs of another human being. 33:16 Would you say that again, Uncle Jackie, 33:17 'cause that's good. 33:18 So this is a decision. This is a decision. 33:20 That's the principle that I garnered out of all of that. 33:23 Would you say that principle again for us? 33:25 That love is utilizing the resources 33:28 you have available 33:30 to meet the legitimate needs of another human being. 33:34 Legitimate needs. 33:36 Now that's because it's not being selfish 33:42 or allowing the other person even to be selfish, 33:47 it's discovering what the actual need is 33:52 and relating to that, 33:56 and using whatever resources you're having, 33:59 garnering whatever resources you need to meet that need 34:04 which brings about a sense of satisfaction 34:09 and over a longtime a sense of happiness 34:12 on the person whose needs you're providing overtime 34:17 on a consistent basis. 34:19 And I began to teach that in my class. 34:22 When you first married, 34:24 was it difficult for you 34:27 to ascertain the needs of the other one, 34:30 or did you just kind of fallen to it, did you know? 34:35 No, we didn't fall into it, you know. 34:40 I would give my students too a personality test 34:43 to find out what their personalities 34:45 were like and so forth, 34:47 and how they operated on an actual basis, 34:51 and we discovered about ourselves 34:55 that for her doing things for me, 35:00 and in all kinds of ways whatever it is, 35:05 may not happen. 35:07 I read that in the book Service. 35:09 Yeah, and I also grew up with my father and my brother, 35:13 so these two men were very important to me. 35:17 And I would do things for them, and I enjoyed doing it, 35:21 and so that just transferred over to this man. 35:24 Where your mother was a doer. 35:25 Yeah, my mother took care of her family. 35:27 I mean, mom did everything for us. 35:31 She made our clothes, she cooked, we canned, 35:33 and we as a family, the four of us 35:35 did these things together. 35:36 We would go pick the fruit, come home, can it, 35:42 make the grape juice. 35:43 It was a lot of fun doing things as a family, 35:45 so that was my natural bet. 35:48 So when I met him, this, I just carried it right on. 35:51 I would make this man happy. 35:53 I made that decision before I married him, 35:55 I remember in one youth meeting, 35:58 back in the day, 36:00 it was missionary volunteer program, 36:02 and husbands and wives, 36:03 and we have back then getting together, 36:05 talking about marriage. 36:07 And, Danny, one lady stood up, 36:11 and she said, "Well, you know, I work as well as my husband, 36:16 and when I come home from work, 36:18 I'm tired too, but I'm in the kitchen cooking, 36:20 and he goes and sits down and reads the newspaper," 36:22 and the big discussion came on, 36:24 they were bickering back and forth in the meeting. 36:28 So I stood up, I said, "Brothers and sisters, 36:32 I'm not married and I've never been married, 36:35 but I declare to you that if the Lord 36:38 should give me a husband, I won't be bickering, 36:41 I want him to sit down and enjoy himself. 36:42 I want to take care of him. 36:44 I want to do for him. 36:45 That's where it came from. 36:47 My whole heart was just breaking out 36:48 that I want to love him whatever it means." 36:51 Yes. And that's how you would love by service. 36:53 Now, my love style... 36:55 I didn't know anything about the style 36:56 and all that at that time. 36:58 Predominant part of my love style was togetherness. 37:03 Stop doing for me, come and sit down. 37:07 He sounds a little tough, 37:09 but that's not how he came across. 37:11 Yeah. Until one night though... 37:12 Let's talk and just do things together. 37:15 Tell us what happened that night? 37:17 Well, my husband is a reader, 37:19 and if I had someone to be jealous of or something, 37:24 it would be books because he just reads. 37:29 Obsessive reader. Then I was a teacher. 37:30 Yeah, but he loved to read. That's his pastime. 37:33 But I wasn't jealous of his books 37:35 'cause I learned from... 37:36 I'm not the reader, he is the reader. 37:38 So you heard of stories of wives, husbands 37:43 getting up out of the bed or the wife or somebody, 37:46 and when they find them they're in another room, 37:48 and they have died. 37:50 So whenever I reached over, 37:51 and he wasn't there in the middle of the night, 37:54 I would get up and go search for him. 37:56 This could be serious. 37:58 So this particular night, I went to the kitchen, 38:02 and he was there, looking at our love, our tests. 38:07 You know, we had done the love style tests 38:09 and personality tests, and he's looking at them. 38:13 I was studying. 38:14 And you have to know him that he doesn't... 38:18 You can talk to Jackie, 38:19 and he will not respond right away, 38:21 because he's a deep thinker. 38:23 So I went in, and I said, "Honey, are you okay?" 38:29 Silence, not a word, so I went over, 38:32 I said, "Jackie, are you okay?" 38:39 I said, "Honey, what's going on?" 38:42 "You don't love me," this is his response. 38:45 "You don't love me," I said, "What?" 38:47 In fact, you have never loved me. 38:49 But before he said that part, 38:52 I'm trying to digest the first part, 38:56 "You don't love me," I said, "What do you mean?" 39:00 "In fact, you've never loved me." 39:02 Then I said, "This is serious." 39:04 Tears rolled up in my mind, in my eyes, 39:06 and I said, "I need to listen to this man." 39:10 Mind you they have been married 10 years already. 39:12 I said, "I need to..." 39:14 So for him to say, you've never loved me. 39:16 You've never loved me. Over 10 years. 39:18 That threw me for a loop. Yeah. That's kind of heavy. 39:20 I've loved with all my heart. Yes. 39:22 And I promised God 39:24 that I would love a husband if He gave me one. 39:26 And then he tells me I have never loved him. 39:29 So I said, "Joe, you need to listen to this man. 39:32 He's trying to tell you something." 39:35 And what was that? 39:36 So I sat down, and you take it from there, 39:38 honey, what did you tell me. 39:43 "That our love styles were very different." 39:45 That's when we began to see our differences, you know. 39:51 And she would get her joy out of all the things 39:55 she would do for me to make me happy. 40:01 My love style was togetherness. 40:05 Be with me, talk to me, 40:10 spend time with me, 40:14 and let's enjoy time together, right. 40:18 Times other than the intimate moments 40:19 because we did a lot of... 40:21 We always did everything together though, honey. 40:24 But he means when we would come home, 40:28 I'm busy doing for him, 40:30 you know, I'd get his dinner ready, 40:31 make sure this is done, and it's all, 40:34 the clothes are nice, the bedroom is nice, 40:37 that's not what he wanted. 40:39 And I didn't know that. 40:42 What's great about this book 40:45 is you're really writing out of experience. 40:47 You're not setting up in a classroom style saying, 40:50 let's see, if you do this, 40:51 this equals this, and this equals... 40:53 Oh, yeah. 40:55 Your book, and what, people and especially younger folk, 40:58 maybe all of us, are going to get from this is this 41:01 is your relationship that you have given it to God, 41:08 and you've both dedicated your lives 41:10 to God and to each other. 41:12 And I'm sure during the course of that, not everything's been, 41:15 we used the term around here, hunky-dory, 41:18 but everything is good all the time. 41:20 But even I'm sure some of this that you're going to show us 41:24 even when things don't look bad, 41:26 here's the answer, 41:27 and here's why you're still together 41:29 because you put God first than each other. 41:31 And the idea was what God had given us. 41:34 Yeah. 41:36 What teaches how to fix it when things going to go 41:40 and just right and other things needed to be done, 41:45 we begin to learn what could be done to fix the relationship. 41:52 You know, when two people want to be together, 41:55 having all kinds of problems, if you have a desire, 41:59 God can fix that. 42:01 He can take those problems 42:03 and literally bring you back to where you originally were, 42:07 just like when we fall in sin, away from God, 42:11 if we have repented in the true heart want to, 42:15 we can be drawn closer to God again, 42:17 and you can do that with a husband and wife 42:20 if that's what you want. 42:22 That's why, Danny, it's important to know 42:25 we did not developed love, what we did not create... 42:30 Mankind did not make love, God is the originator of love. 42:34 God is love, that's where love comes from. 42:36 That's who He is. 42:38 And Satan doesn't want you to love that way. 42:42 He wants to do it over here, so people get married, 42:44 and in six months, they're separating, divorcing, 42:48 they're bickering, and all that. 42:49 That's what Satan likes, 42:50 but if you based your foundation 42:52 on the source of love, 42:54 how can you go wrong. 42:56 You want to learn. 42:57 See, that's why the title is Becoming a Professional Lover. 43:01 You're in school. The focus of sin... 43:03 You're in a love school. 43:05 Right. Love school. 43:06 The focus of sin is selfishness. 43:09 Where as God, the focus is others, 43:12 doing for others, to meet their needs, 43:15 and once we discover that... 43:17 Once we discover what the needs are or were, you know. 43:23 And His principles will tell you how to fix it. 43:25 Right. And that's what... 43:27 One of the things I love about this book is that, 43:29 it says like, "Love isn't love until your spouse says so, 43:33 or love your spouse his or her way." 43:37 You know, it's not just what you perceive as love 43:42 but what does your spouse need from you. 43:45 And that's what all the testing does. 43:48 You know, and that's... 43:49 There are tests in this book as well? 43:51 No, not in the book, but we do suggest where to go 43:54 and find different types of tests. 43:56 But that has been kind of the hallmark of dad's practice 44:00 through the years is using these personality tests, 44:05 and loving styles tests, 44:08 and spiritual gifts test on couples to see 44:12 where the compatibility is if there is compatibility, 44:16 if there's not a lot of compatibility 44:18 because marriage is supposed to be 44:22 a thoughtful process 44:25 when you're thinking about getting married, 44:27 it's supposed to not just be of the heart, 44:29 I think Ellen White talks about it 44:31 being head and heart and not just, 44:34 "Oh, he's fine, or just he's fine, 44:36 and we have this physical chemistry." 44:38 No, you're supposed to be thinking about it too. 44:41 And I mean, so he put everybody in our family, 44:44 all the kids, and their spouses, 44:47 their going-to-be spouses through these tests, you know. 44:51 In fact, when Pattie was living in DC area, 44:54 and she came home and brought out for us to meet him, 44:58 that's Pattie's husband. 45:00 A whole lot happened that weekend, 45:03 so in the course of all of that, that... 45:05 In fact, before they came, before she came home, 45:08 before she came home, Daddy set the test. 45:10 He mailed his tests. 45:12 Now Al and I were not 45:15 talking at that time about being married, 45:16 but we were both older, in our 30s. 45:18 And, you know, at that time, 45:20 it's not going to take a long time 45:21 to decide if it's the one, 45:23 but we weren't talking about that. 45:26 So he mails these tests, 45:27 he says, "Take these before you come." 45:30 And, you know, praise the Lord for my husband 45:32 who was a good sport, he was like, 45:35 you know, he could've easily been like, "Tests? 45:36 I'm not taking them tests." 45:38 You know, all he was like, you know, 45:41 "Hey, that seems kind of fun, sure." 45:43 And when we got to Huntsville, and kiss-kiss, hug-hug, 45:48 how you doing, glad you made it here, 45:50 where are the tests. 45:52 And he took the tests 45:54 and went to his office to analyze them. 45:57 To analyze them. Yes, he did. Absolutely. 45:59 And I think the viewers need to know that, by profession, 46:03 you would have been a counselor and a professor, 46:05 a teacher all these years, 46:07 and Aunt Joe has also counseled and been a registered nurse, 46:11 and you all have done family life for years together. 46:15 So this is not just somebody... 46:16 And, Yvonne, this is our only girl. 46:18 I mean what more, the man's not just 46:19 going to throw her out there to the world. 46:22 We didn't know Al. 46:24 He wanted to make sure 46:25 that he was giving his daughter to the right one. 46:28 And, Pattie, of course, is a professional writer, 46:30 and you've written how many books, Pattie? 46:32 Oh, I've ghostwritten three, and wrote an e-book of my own, 46:37 Nobody Ever Told Me I Might Not Get Married! 46:39 Yes. And then this one. 46:42 Yes, yes, yes. 46:43 Is there anything, in particular, 46:45 that you've learned about your folks 46:48 while you were writing this book, 46:49 or did you pretty well, 46:51 you've kind of grown up with it, 46:52 or is there anything that you've learned that sticks out? 46:54 I don't know that I learned anything new 46:57 when writing this book, but it's funny 47:00 and in talking with them 47:02 'cause what we did was we took each tip, 47:05 and I would ask questions 47:07 and, you know, they would respond, but a lot of times, 47:10 their responses would spark little back and forth 47:14 encounters which showed me 47:17 that this never goes out of style 47:20 for having to go back and review it, 47:24 and we study it because, you know... 47:26 It started just like who called who, you know... 47:28 But the book is good. 47:30 Danny, the book is good for us too. 47:33 You know, so, and mom would often say, 47:36 you know, "We're in a new era now." 47:37 She's now my dad's primary caretaker 47:40 after him experiencing a lot of health challenges. 47:44 And so that brings out a whole new experience 47:50 that require them to now go back 47:54 and review some of these same tips, 47:56 so that just shows that, 47:58 you know, this is a resource that is everlasting. 48:01 I've been married almost 25 years, 48:03 I would say that Al and I have a great relationship, 48:06 but we're going through the book, 48:09 and realizing that there's always something to tweak. 48:12 There's always something that you can be doing better, 48:16 and that's really what I've learned through this process. 48:19 Well, I wanted to say to, Danny and Yvonne, 48:22 my husband's 85 years old, I'm 78, 48:25 I'm seven years younger than my husband. 48:29 By profession, I was a nurse, 48:33 the Lord knew all that because he's on dialysis now. 48:37 His kidneys have shut down, 48:38 but praise God, we have the system of dialysis. 48:42 And I'm not uncomfortable, the things that he needs done, 48:47 blood pressure, finger pricking for his diabetes, 48:50 how to feed him, which foods not to give him, 48:53 that's all in my background. 48:55 So I match him at this stage of life. 48:58 When we were first married, this man did everything for me, 49:02 I was the homemaker, and he handled all the bills, 49:06 all everything, just all that was done, 49:10 and thank God for our children 49:11 because they now have stepped in 49:13 to do what he can't do now. 49:15 He doesn't pay any bills now, our younger son does that. 49:18 If something needs to be fixed, Al or Brian or anybody, 49:23 the children are there now to take care of us 49:26 where we first took care of them. 49:27 That's beautiful. 49:28 And God has really worked that out. 49:30 It's a beautiful thing when you do things God's way, 49:35 it's awesome. 49:36 And let me piggyback on that 49:37 because that also demonstrates that the book, 49:40 even though the context is marriage 49:43 and a marital relationship, 49:45 we're still really talking about love. 49:47 The love relationship, 49:49 and that can be singles to singles, 49:53 within families, it doesn't necessarily just mean couples. 49:57 There are a lot of principles in there 50:00 that just relate to how do you love 50:02 another person God's way. 50:05 Oh, good. That's great. 50:07 And we want to make sure we get an address 50:09 because I know that you all are going to want 50:11 and get your copies of this book, 50:13 and so maybe right now, would this be a good time? 50:16 I'm the co-host today, not the host. 50:18 No, no, no, please, please, go for it. 50:19 Okay, all right. 50:20 I just wanted to support here. 50:22 What we'd like to do if you're interested, 50:23 and I know that you are, you have questions, 50:26 you may contact them at the following address. 50:30 For over 30 years, Claude and Joe Thomas 50:33 have studied, practiced, 50:35 and shared relationship advice from the Bible. 50:38 And that has led to over 50 years of joyful marriage. 50:42 They know that God's way works, 50:44 and they want to share it with you. 50:46 To get your own copy of their book, 50:48 Becoming a Professional Lover or the Companion workbook, 50:52 please visit their website, TheProfessionalLover.net. 50:56 That's TheProfessionalLover.net. 50:59 If you would like to contact them in person, 51:01 you may do so by calling area code (256) 714-3822. 51:16 So people can go to your website, 51:18 and what's on the website? 51:20 Well, on the website, 51:22 it's a little bit about my parents, 51:23 their background, credentials if you will and all that. 51:27 And it gives a little bit about the book, 51:30 but for the website particularly, 51:32 there is a workbook 51:34 that is a companion to this actual book. 51:38 And the workbook facilitates the study part. 51:42 At the end of each week's tip is a homework assignment, 51:45 which makes it nice to give your week to study the tip 51:48 and to do some of the homework. 51:50 And so the workbook is available on the website, 51:54 and you can buy it right there through Paypal. 51:57 And it comes in two different formats, 51:59 a PDF format if you just want to print it out on your own, 52:02 or Word doc format if you want to keep it in your computer 52:05 and actually put your answers right on the computer. 52:08 Nice. 52:09 Otherwise, the book itself can be gotten through Amazon.com, 52:13 Barnes&Noble.com, BooksaMillion.com. 52:16 If you want to actually go to Barnes & Noble 52:19 and request it, 52:21 and it will come through the store itself. 52:25 And it's in a print format, as well as an e-book format. 52:28 Great. 52:29 Okay, I'd like to suggest church leaders 52:33 that you get one of these 52:35 because with the study guides and all, 52:37 especially pastors when you're counseling people 52:40 preparing for marriage, what a great book for them, 52:43 and your church could actually buy, 52:44 make a donation to each of these 52:46 which you could go through these lessons with them, 52:49 I think that'd be... 52:50 Or even with your church group. So great. 52:51 Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. 52:53 Marriage and family... Leaders. 52:54 Leaders, this is a wonderful tool. 52:57 It is. 52:58 But you know what's bad, this time is almost out. 53:00 I know. 53:01 So what we're going to do is not totally over. 53:03 We're going to go to a news break. 53:05 We'll be back in just a moment. |
Revised 2018-04-26