Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY017094A
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00:02 I want to spend my life
00:08 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:19 Removing pain 00:24 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:35 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:08 Hello, and welcome to another 3ABN Today program. 01:11 My name is Jill Morikone. 01:13 And it's such a privilege that you join us every day 01:16 as we bring you testimonies, we bring you ministries, 01:20 we bring you what God is doing 01:22 in and around the church today. 01:24 And today is no exception. 01:26 Before I introduce our special guests, 01:29 and I'm so excited about this program 01:33 and what God's going to do, about the topic, 01:35 especially about the topic we're talking about today. 01:38 But before I introduce them to you, 01:40 we want to give a quick disclaimer 01:42 right at the beginning. 01:44 Today's topic is a sensitive topic. 01:47 It can be a difficult topic. 01:48 We're talking about abortion, 01:50 those who have been through abortion, 01:52 talking about the silence that's within the church, 01:55 and how God calls us to speak up. 01:58 And this special ministry raises awareness, 02:02 they educate, they teach. 02:05 God uses them to bring healing to those 02:08 who have been through abortion, or in the midst 02:10 of making a decision right now regarding that. 02:13 So it is a needed topic not only 02:15 within the Seventh-day Adventist Church here 02:18 but many other denominations. 02:20 It's a needed topic in the world 02:21 because it's a human topic. 02:23 And I am excited that at 3ABN we are addressing this topic, 02:28 and I know if you are in the midst 02:30 of the valley of decision, 02:31 if you have family members or friends, 02:34 this program especially is for you. 02:37 But if you are a parent 02:39 and you have young children in your home, 02:41 this would not be the best program 02:43 for them to be watching. 02:45 So we just advice you to use parental discretion, 02:47 maybe involve them in something else in the home 02:50 while we have this discussion on the topic of abortion. 02:53 But I want to introduce to you our special guests. 02:56 We have Antionette Duck. 02:57 And we're just so grateful for you having the courage, 03:01 and coming here and sharing. 03:03 And you are the Founder and Speaker 03:05 for Mafgia ministries. 03:06 Yes. Yes. 03:08 And thank you so much for coming and for sharing. 03:09 Thank you. Thank you. 03:11 Now you were here several years ago, 03:13 and did one program several years ago on 3ABN. 03:15 Yes. Okay. 03:17 This was back in 2014. 03:22 As a ministry, the word Mafgia, people always ask, 03:25 "What is Mafgia mean?" 03:27 It's a Hebrew word for intercessor. 03:28 And we are committed to interceding for the sanctity, 03:31 the value of human life, but we're also committed 03:34 to interceding for reconciliation 03:35 and redemption for men and women 03:37 who are oppose to abortive. 03:39 It's very much a holistic sort of approach. 03:43 We firmly believe in that there are certain ideas 03:47 that we are held captive by. 03:49 In Jeremiah 29:13-14, it says, "You will seek me and find me 03:53 when you search for me with all of your heart, 03:56 I will be found by you, says the Lord, 03:58 and I will bring you back from your captivity. " 04:03 There are certain ideals and mindsets 04:05 that we've been held captive by as individuals, 04:08 as the church, and the Lord says in His Word, 04:12 2 Corinthians 10:4-5, "Take captive those ideas 04:16 and bring them unto the obedience 04:18 to the lordship of Christ. " 04:20 For us, this issue isn't necessarily 04:23 just about the rightness or wrongness, 04:25 that's right and this is wrong when it pertains to abortion. 04:28 For us, we really believe that we've forgotten 04:31 what it means to be made in the image of the Lord, 04:34 to see our value through the lens of God. 04:36 Amen. Amen. 04:38 So before we go more into how you got involved 04:40 in the ministry of Mafgia, how the Lord led you to begin. 04:42 And we have Dianne Wagner with us as well. 04:45 And you are Speaker 04:46 and part of the ministry team of Mafgia. 04:49 Yes. Yes. 04:50 And it's just a privilege and joy 04:52 to have you here too, Dianne. 04:53 Thank you. Thank you. 04:55 It's a privilege and a blessing to be here. 04:56 We want to thank 3ABN for addressing this subject. 04:59 Absolutely. It's a needed topic. 05:02 And I know Danny Shelton's just came out 05:04 with his latest book, "Spiritual Vigilantes", 05:06 and it addresses that topic as well. 05:08 And we're receiving response from people 05:10 who have been blessed and ministered too by that. 05:13 So tell us, Antionette, how the Lord led you 05:16 to become involved in this, because 05:18 you didn't just wake up one day, and say, 05:20 "I'm gonna start a program and a ministry to help 05:22 women and men who have been through abortion. " 05:25 So how did you get involved? Sure. 05:28 I was not raised Adventist, I was raised Southern Baptist. 05:31 I myself was rescued from abortion. 05:33 And it was the intervention of people 05:35 who believed not only in my value 05:36 but in the value of my mother 05:38 who in the midst of her crisis pregnancy, 05:40 they came alongside her. 05:42 So your mom was gonna abort you? 05:43 She was, yes. And she... 05:45 They were willing to walk in a difficult place, 05:47 have a difficult conversation because they believed 05:49 in our value together. 05:52 And my life was spared and her spiritual soundness 05:56 was preserved. 05:59 I came to an understanding 06:01 of the Adventist truth years later, 06:03 and began worshipping on Sabbath, 06:05 and eventually was introduced 06:08 to the Seventh-day Adventist church. 06:10 And encountered certain... 06:12 When I began studying this issue, 06:14 what Adventists believe about it, 06:16 there were certain inconsistencies there, 06:18 a silence that was there 06:20 that was just very concerning for me. 06:22 And so I was really encouraged, you don't, not join the church, 06:28 you join it and you seek to make a difference. 06:30 And so, in 2010 I was baptized into the Adventist church, 06:34 and then early 2011, the Mafgia came into existence. 06:38 So the Lord had this passion in your heart. 06:40 You know what's incredible to me is that, 06:42 the decision your mom made to spare your life. 06:45 You know, to give you life and to not have that abortion. 06:48 Years later, God's leading you in this ministry 06:52 to reach out to other people. 06:53 That's incredible. Yeah. 06:55 So, Dianne, how did you become involved in Mafgia? 06:59 Well, my first thought is, one of her motivations 07:03 for joining the church was to make a difference. 07:05 And she has certainly made a difference in my life 07:08 because she decided to do something. 07:11 In 2011, later that year at GYC in Houston, Texas, 07:17 is when I met Antionette. 07:18 She had her booth all set up. 07:20 My husband and I, we sought her out, 07:23 we wanted to hear her story. 07:24 She told us about how she had been saved 07:27 from abortion. 07:28 And while I was standing there, I realized that 07:30 if I hadn't had my first abortion, 07:33 my first born would have been close to her age. 07:37 And the thing that really made an impact on me 07:39 was she was not condemning. 07:41 She was approaching the subject with, I believe, 07:46 she had values and prioritize correctly. 07:50 And I felt valued by her. 07:52 My experience had been condemnation, 07:55 and because of that silence, so I never spoke 07:58 about the two abortions I had had when I was younger. 08:02 Had you ever told anyone before you told Antionette? 08:04 Years before I had, but because of the experiences 08:07 I had had, I clammed up. 08:10 Because there was no grace and there was no hope. 08:14 And we invited Antionette actually up to see us. 08:17 She spoke at a couple places, 08:19 and went to a women's retreat with me. 08:21 And you know, I encouraged her to share what she was doing, 08:26 and it quickly became apparent to me 08:28 because of the number of women who came forward 08:32 and shared their story of a past abortion. 08:34 These were good Christian women, you know, 08:37 who love the Lord, 08:38 and this was a part of their life 08:39 they had put away because they had never had a place 08:43 to talk about it, you know, a safe place. 08:46 So for women who have dealt with abortion, 08:49 they remain silent because of the shame, 08:52 because people bring condemnation 08:54 when it's brought up, there's no grace? 08:57 Well, I can give you an example, 09:00 and this was within the church. 09:02 One of my very dear friends, 09:04 the subject of abortion came up. 09:05 Now, of course, they had no clue 09:07 that I had ever been there. 09:09 But his response was a, all the women 09:11 who have ever had an abortion need to be lined up and shot. 09:16 Yeah. You are kidding. 09:17 No. No. 09:18 And that's just one of many. 09:20 So you hear that and it's... 09:23 Yeah, you close up. 09:24 You're not gonna talk about it when you know 09:26 that's the attitude. 09:27 Of course. 09:28 But you felt something different with Antionette? 09:30 Oh, yes. She was very... 09:32 And in fact, one of the other stories 09:33 I share quickly is the... 09:36 There was a time in my life when I sought help. 09:38 And it was a Christian radio station, 09:40 and there was an 800 number you could call. 09:43 I called the 800 number because I wanted to share my story. 09:47 And after I had shared what I had done, 09:52 her response was, "Well, you know 09:54 abortion is murder, don't you?" 09:56 There was no hope, no grace. 09:58 It was... So I'm... Yeah. 10:01 And I'm not like a lot of women who have just decided 10:04 to close up, it's not worth taking that risk of sharing. 10:09 But as we share, more and more women, 10:12 when you share your story, you empower other women. 10:15 Absolutely! 10:16 And they find their voice, 10:17 and the silence is being broken. 10:19 Amen. 10:21 And restoration is occurring. 10:23 Amen. Amen. 10:24 So it's amazing, Antionette, God called you into the church, 10:29 you accepted the truth of the Sabbath. 10:31 But yet you said, I want to go back to that for a moment 10:33 and then we have many stories that they have to share. 10:36 And we want to make sure we get to these stories. 10:38 But God called you, but you saw the silence within the church. 10:44 Why do you think there is a silence there? 10:47 I think there are probably many reasons. 10:49 People, there's a genuine, as Dianne shares, 10:53 when she shares her testimony, they're afraid of offending, 10:56 they're afraid of hurting further, 10:59 of wounding further. 11:00 Some people simply don't know how to dialogue about it. 11:03 As we'll share in our stories, 11:04 pastors even who simply aren't equipped, 11:07 they don't know, how do I counsel someone 11:10 in my congregation to speak about this. 11:12 Other people perhaps, they aren't sure 11:15 how they would respond if they were confronted 11:17 with that situation. 11:19 And so they remain silent. 11:21 There are many different reasons 11:24 why we believe there is a silence. 11:26 What we know though is that the Lord is saying, 11:29 the time is now, it's time to lift up your voice. 11:32 It's time to help set the captive free. 11:34 It's time to point people to the light and to the cross. 11:37 It's a magnificent opportunity that we've been given 11:40 as believers when it comes to this issue. 11:42 Amen. Absolutely! 11:44 And at 3ABN, we stand with Mafgia ministry, 11:47 with what God is doing in and through you. 11:49 We stand with the right for life. 11:51 We stand with... 11:53 God calls even the baby in the womb, 11:56 from the moment of conception, it's life, is not a tissue. 12:00 But if, you might be watching at home, and you said, 12:03 you're like Dianne, "I went through an abortion. 12:06 I have that pain and that shame. " 12:08 God forgives, God restores, 12:11 God extends grace and He loves you. 12:14 We want to get to many stories today. 12:16 But before we do that, we have our special music 12:18 from Pastor Wintley Phipps. 12:20 He's with us right now. 12:21 And the song he will be ministering is 12:24 "All the Way My Savior Leads Me". 12:56 All the way my Savior leads me 13:01 What have I to ask beside? 13:06 Can I doubt His tender mercy 13:11 Who through life has been my Guide? 13:16 Heav'nly peace, divinest comfort 13:21 Here by faith in Him to dwell! 13:26 For I know, whate'er befall me 13:31 Jesus doeth all things well 13:35 For I know, whate'er befall me 13:41 Jesus 13:44 Doeth all things well 13:56 All the way my Savior leads me 14:00 Cheers each winding path I tread 14:05 Gives me grace for every trial 14:10 Feeds me with the living bread 14:15 Though my weary steps may falter 14:20 And my soul athirst may be 14:25 Gushing from the Rock before me 14:30 Lo! A spring of joy I see 14:35 Gushing from the Rock before me 14:41 Lo! A spring of joy I see 14:58 All the way my Savior leads me 15:02 Oh, the fullness of His love! 15:07 Perfect rest to me is promised 15:12 In my Father's house above 15:17 When my spirit, clothed immortal 15:22 Wings its flight to realms of day 15:27 This my song through endless ages 15:32 Jesus led me all the way 15:37 This my song through endless ages 15:45 Jesus led me 15:49 All 15:54 The way 16:18 What a fitting song, All the way my Savior leads me. 16:21 No matter what our past, 16:22 God has a future for each one of us. 16:25 One of my favorite scriptures, Jeremiah 29:11, God says, 16:28 "I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, 16:31 plans to prosper you and not to harm you, 16:33 to give you a future and a hope." 16:35 And God not only has a hope and a future 16:37 for each one of us, 16:38 for you at home He has a hope and future 16:40 for the Seventh-day Adventist church, 16:42 and for each one of the churches 16:44 who are involved right now in this abortive crisis, 16:47 and in seeking to break that silence. 16:51 If you're just joining us and you are a parent, 16:54 this particular program is a sensitive topic. 16:56 We're talking about the topic of abortion. 16:58 So you might involve your children 17:00 in doing something else during this program. 17:02 But we have Antionette Duck, and Dianne Wagner with us, 17:06 and Mafgia ministry. 17:08 And you have an incredible ministry. 17:09 And well, especially, this time, 17:11 we brought you back to share us stories. 17:13 To share us some of the stories of people 17:15 who have been through abortions, 17:16 and the hope and the healing that God's bringing. 17:19 So I think, Dianne, we're gonna start with you. 17:21 Talk to us about the number of women 17:23 in Seventh-day Adventist ministry 17:25 who are dealing with this? 17:27 You know, I mentioned earlier how for intent of every women, 17:31 the women who have abortions 17:32 who are actually active in their church. 17:35 Well, I've seen that in our church, 17:37 and as we go to the different conferences, 17:39 you know, many times we'll be with 17:40 many other ministries. 17:42 And there is one that stands out 17:45 and will always stand out 17:47 because this particular individual 17:49 has been very active in her ministry, 17:51 beautiful woman. 17:53 And she shared her story with me 17:56 and it was the first one she had ever shared. 17:59 And she had had multiple abortions. 18:02 And she was... 18:06 It just humbled me because it made me realize 18:09 by breaking the silence, we're freeing up other women. 18:12 Even women in prominent positions, 18:14 you would think have it all together, 18:16 spiritually they still have this wound 18:19 that they have hidden away. 18:21 But by just breaking that silence 18:23 and finally allowing herself to go there and weep, 18:27 her ministry is gonna be blessed. 18:30 It's not a ministry about abortion. 18:32 But just because she is getting restored now 18:36 and allowing the Lord to even use her 18:39 at a deeper level... 18:41 Amen. It's just so important. 18:44 And so many women who, they'll say, 18:47 "You know, the Lord forgave me, 18:48 why do I still feel so miserable?" 18:50 We have many women say that. 18:52 Women in all locks, whether they're in a ministry, 18:55 or home ministering their children... 18:57 And what's the answer to that, if the Lord forgave me, 19:00 why am I still miserable? 19:01 What's the answer to that? 19:02 Well, that's why I believe the retreat is so important 19:04 because, yes, indeed He has, but a lot of times 19:07 there are consequences that need to be dealt with. 19:10 There are emotions that if they're not resolve 19:13 can surface in other areas. 19:15 So if you still feel pain, or misery, 19:18 or something unresolved, the devil is gonna use that 19:21 to attack you to think, "The Lord didn't forgive you," 19:24 or "you wouldn't be feeling miserable. " 19:26 So well, I encourage women to address the consequences. 19:32 There was a loss, you need to mourn that loss. 19:35 You need to pull that child out of the statistics 19:38 and claim that as your own. 19:40 And... 19:42 It's really remarkable because by Dianne 19:44 having the courage to speak out, 19:47 it takes tremendous courage to do what Dianne is doing. 19:50 But by her having the courage to do this, 19:52 it's literally liberating the voices 19:55 of other men and women to share their stories. 19:59 And that's what we see happen. 20:00 In the scripture, it says, "Confess your sins 20:02 one to another that you may be healed." 20:05 And then it says, "Comfort each other 20:07 with the same comfort with which you yourself 20:09 were comforted." 20:10 That's what's happening here. 20:12 It's not about glorifying this horrible past. 20:15 It's about pointing people to the light and to the cross. 20:18 And for us to understand that the number of abortions 20:21 that have occurred, they are approximately a million 20:23 that happen in the United States every year. 20:26 Every year. 20:27 If even half of those women and men regret their decision, 20:32 why would we hesitate to speak light into that darkness? 20:36 Because people are desperate for the freedom, the hope, 20:39 the forgiveness that the cross brings. 20:41 In some little way. 20:43 So breaking the silence as in speaking out, 20:45 sharing what has happened to you is key in healing. 20:49 And you all do retreats as in people come, 20:53 or you go to areas and speak, or... 20:56 I work with the local crisis pregnancy center, 21:00 and I'm director of the post abortion recovery program. 21:03 So that's the retreat that I'm involved in 21:05 and lead out in. 21:08 And we've actually had Adventist women 21:10 from the West Coast in Canada, who have contacted us, 21:13 and want to come to attend one of the retreats. 21:15 Okay. 21:17 So let's move on to another story. 21:18 Antionette, this is something to do with pastoral influences, 21:22 pastoral student who is wrestling 21:23 with counseling a mother. 21:25 Yes. 21:26 In the seminars that we give, generally weekend seminars. 21:28 Earlier this year, we are at Heartland 21:30 giving a weekend seminar, and a pastoral student... 21:34 We'd like to address the difficult questions, 21:37 and think it's so important that we understand 21:39 the truth can stand up to difficulty. 21:42 We don't have to be afraid of what is difficult 21:45 because the Lord is sovereign, He is right there. 21:48 Well, we were talking about, 21:49 in particular life of the mother 21:51 versus health of the mother. 21:53 And when you... 21:57 And abortions that are done to save the physical life 22:00 of the mother, for example, an ectopic pregnancy, 22:03 if the child is lodged in fallopian tube 22:05 at that early stage of development. 22:08 We believe, you seek to save as many lives as possible. 22:12 Well, with the rise in cancer, 22:14 the way that cancer is effecting women. 22:16 This pastoral student was asking, 22:18 "What if she has cancer? 22:20 What if she needs to undergo chemo? 22:21 What am I going to tell her? 22:23 Do I tell her she can't undergo the chemo, 22:25 and so she must not do any of the treatment? 22:29 Or do I say she goes ahead and should have the abortion?" 22:33 He was really wrestling back and forth, and I was saying, 22:35 it was a fascinating dialogue. 22:38 And I said, "Lord, give me wisdom, 22:39 give me wisdom to know how to answer this." 22:42 And what was really remarkable is, I think the evil one, 22:46 he attempts to cause us to see only the crisis 22:49 of the circumstance, and we see only the A and B scenarios. 22:54 But that's not how the Lord works. 22:56 The Lord isn't only A or B, and He's not, 22:59 He doesn't set up mother versus child. 23:02 The Lord has a thousand different ways to answer, 23:06 and to provide for our needs. 23:09 If you look through scripture, how many times 23:12 did the Lord ask someone 23:16 to take the life of their child? 23:18 Well, we have the story of Abraham and Isaac, 23:20 but what happened with Abraham and Isaac? 23:22 That was a test. It was. He stopped it. 23:24 When the Lord said, take the life of Isaac, 23:26 it was a test to faith. 23:27 The Lord didn't intend that Isaac's life would be taken. 23:30 And when in scripture do we have the Lord 23:33 asking a parent to take the life of their child 23:35 in order to save their own life? 23:38 That doesn't happen. 23:39 What we would love to see in a situation 23:43 where someone's wrestling with something like that, 23:45 would our pastors, 23:47 would our laypeople get in the trenches 23:50 with these people and say, "You know what? 23:51 I'm going to fall on my face before the Lord for 10 days, 23:54 20 days, 30 days, and together we will seek Him. 23:58 We will pray for healing, we will pray for an answer." 24:01 There are so many different ways 24:03 that a woman can approach that particular situation. 24:05 It doesn't have to be mother versus baby, 24:08 or child versus baby because the Lord is sovereign, 24:11 He is able to restore, redeem, to save. 24:15 And when we approach this issue, 24:17 will we approach it with that kind of faith, 24:20 not because the situation is easy 24:22 but because we know who our God really is. 24:25 Amen. Absolutely. 24:26 What I love in what you shared many things, 24:29 but one thing that stood out to me was 24:30 coming alongside the person. 24:32 Instead of saying, "Okay, you're wrestling 24:33 with a very difficult decision here, 24:35 you go home and wrestle with it." 24:37 But this was leadership. 24:38 And you talked about pastors and others 24:40 going in the trenches with them, 24:42 getting on their face, praying with them, 24:44 or fasting with them, or whatever it is with them. 24:48 It helps to know that someone is walking 24:50 through this with you and you're not alone. 24:52 Yeah. Absolutely. We want... 24:54 Normally in our programs we would put up 24:56 your contact information at the very end of the program. 24:59 But what we want to do through this program 25:00 is several times throughout the program 25:02 because we know that many of you need help, 25:05 need hope, need healing, want someone 25:08 to reach out to right now. 25:10 So even as you're watching this program, 25:12 we want to put up the website for Mafgia ministry. 25:16 You can go to is www.mafgia.com. 25:18 That's M-A-F-G-I-A.com. 25:23 Or you can email them at info@mafgia.com. 25:28 Or you can call them, 25:31 706-527-4882. 25:36 That number once again is 25:38 706-527-4882. 25:43 And we want to do this several times 25:45 throughout the program, so you make sure 25:47 you can reach out and get in touch with Mafgia. 25:50 Now going back to Dianne, you have story for us 25:52 about a woman whose child had birth defects. 25:55 One of the places we spoke at, you know, 25:57 it's not uncommon to have several people come 26:01 that want to share story. 26:02 This particular woman came up to me 26:04 and brokenhearted. 26:08 She had had a pregnancy and there had been 26:11 a deformity in her unborn child. 26:14 And the physician had asked her to, or had told her, 26:18 advised her to abort. 26:20 And so she went to her pastor, the thing 26:23 that broke this woman's heart was her pastor's advice. 26:28 Her pastor told her you would be crazy 26:30 not to have an abortion. 26:32 The fact that he gave her that kind of counsel 26:36 broke her heart more than the fact 26:39 that she had gone through with it 26:41 because she was looking to him for spiritual guidance. 26:45 And, you know, this story is just one story of many 26:50 and it needs to compel us to examine our faith. 26:54 Do I have the faith enough to say, trust God. 27:00 And by doing that, 27:01 you're not dictating a conscience, 27:03 and you're not trying to co-verse, 27:05 they can still make their own decision. 27:08 But you are exercising faith, 27:11 and you're walking alongside that person. 27:13 And if we're gonna trust God, 27:16 that's where the rubber meets the road. 27:18 We need to trust God. 27:20 I always tell people that, how can we make people 27:23 jealous for our God if we don't even give God 27:27 the opportunity to show what He can do for us. 27:31 Yes. We're afraid. 27:33 So we as Christians, as we approach 27:35 the subject need to really examine 27:38 our own faith. 27:40 Do I have faith enough to trust, to trust God? 27:44 Especially in leadership... 27:46 Amen. As pastors. 27:48 That story just astounds me 'cause you think 27:50 someone in spiritual leadership 27:53 and they give that type of advice. 27:56 Obviously, education is key. 27:57 We need education of those in ministry, 27:59 those in leadership. 28:03 Does your ministry work with that, 28:04 with educating the pastoral ministry 28:07 with others or you focus more on the, not the victim side, 28:11 but those who have gone through abortions? 28:14 Well, we did, 28:16 we had the opportunity at one camp meeting 28:17 where we spoke at to speak to pastors. 28:20 And of course, we would love to get our foot in more doors 28:23 as the Lord opens them because we believe 28:26 that's one of the starting points. 28:28 You educate pastors on how to deal with this, 28:31 specifically this, and to go into the hard places. 28:36 I like it because it causes them 28:39 to examine their experience. 28:41 Yes. So, yes... 28:44 That's good. Okay, absolutely. 28:46 Well, and we absolutely would seek to go 28:48 wherever the Lord opens the door. 28:51 The majority of abortions are occurring 28:53 between 18 and 24 years old, that's the key demographic. 28:57 And so getting in front of that age, frankly, 29:00 getting in front of them much earlier for, 29:03 because as we said, this issue is bigger than 29:06 this is right and this is wrong, 29:07 so don't do that. 29:08 When we are to finding ourselves 29:10 through the lens of God, we're valuable 29:12 because we're made in the image of the Lord, 29:15 it changes everything, it literally does. 29:18 We're gonna change the way that we value ourselves, 29:21 we value others, the way we interact with other people 29:25 much earlier from the very beginning. 29:27 And so being able to start these dialogues 29:30 early on is so critical. 29:32 Amen. Amen. 29:34 What about a young woman who hid her pregnancy? 29:40 This is such a perfect example of what Antionette 29:43 was just saying. 29:44 When we don't address this issue, 29:46 this is the kind of story we end up hearing 29:49 when we're not talking to our young people, 29:51 and educating our young people, and our parents. 29:54 This was a story, actually it was shared, 29:58 it was a pastoral family 30:00 and this young woman got pregnant, 30:02 young teenager. 30:04 And she went her entire pregnancy 30:07 binding herself because she did not want 30:10 to share with her parents. 30:12 And it was a tragic story. 30:15 It was a very tragic story because she ended up 30:18 losing that baby. 30:20 How far long was she? 30:21 She was term. And the very... 30:25 When you see a father who realizes his daughter 30:29 was not able to come to him, and was that afraid 30:33 to come to him... 30:35 That would break you as a father. 30:36 Break his heart, break his heart. 30:41 When we went to the ministerial meeting, 30:43 it was really, really good because we realized 30:45 how many pastors are confronted with this 30:48 within their own homes. 30:50 And because of, trying to keep an image 30:53 or all this pressure they're put under, 30:56 and even if they are not verbally 30:57 saying it to their kids, you know, 30:59 march the straight line, the kids are picking up on it. 31:02 So if they trip up, the pressure to hide, hide it, 31:08 that was very heartbreaking story 31:10 and very typical of what we see 31:13 because of the silence, the silence in our schools, 31:16 and... 31:18 How far long was she when her parents found out? 31:20 Term. Full term. 31:21 So she went full term. Yeah. 31:24 She actually, they had been out on a event and they came home, 31:28 and she went up to the restroom, 31:29 and they heard a thud on the floor. 31:31 And when they went up, they went up to the restroom, 31:34 they saw, there was blood on the floor. 31:36 They thought she was hemorrhaging. 31:37 So they took her to the hospital, 31:39 and they get to the hospital, and the doctor says, 31:42 "Where is the baby?" 31:43 They literally had no idea that she had been pregnant. 31:46 And what was really striking about the story is, 31:50 what is it saying about our church culture, 31:55 about us as families, 31:56 and we don't speak this in condemnation. 31:58 There's no judgment here. Right, right. 32:00 We're saying, there is a better way. 32:03 When we are valuing ourselves, again, as the Lord does, 32:08 we won't base our value on performance, 32:10 we simply won't. 32:11 And we won't love other people based on performance. 32:14 And as believers, we really tend to do that. 32:17 We tend to think the Lord loves us 32:18 based on our performance, 32:20 we tend to love others based on their performance. 32:22 That's not the standard of the Lord. 32:24 And will we choose no matter what, I will love you, 32:29 no matter what, I will walk alongside you. 32:32 What's really remarkable is we've shared this story 32:35 multiple times during seminars that we've given. 32:39 On more than one occasion someone has asked, 32:44 "Aren't you afraid that if... 32:48 We come alongside these women in crisis, 32:51 and we throw them a baby shower, 32:53 and we celebrate this life. 32:55 Aren't you afraid that it will cause women 32:58 to treat the baby like a trophy? 33:00 Everyone will think you're just allowed 33:01 to get pregnant and have sex, and do whatever you want to." 33:05 And our answer is, "Absolutely, no. 33:07 We are not afraid of that at all." 33:09 "And why not?" 33:10 "Because we're addressing the entire problem." 33:13 A woman who is having sex outside the bounds 33:17 the Lord has established, 33:18 she is telling you something about the value, 33:21 the way that she values herself. 33:22 A young man or older man, 33:24 however old these people might be 33:26 who are having sex outside the boundaries 33:28 the Lord has established, 33:29 they're telling you something 33:31 about what's going on in their soul. 33:33 We don't act that way because we're satisfied in our souls. 33:36 We act that way because we're empty 33:38 and we're looking to be filled. 33:39 And so any situations, if a young woman truly knows 33:45 I'm loved because I exist, because I'm made in the image 33:49 of the Lord, not because I perform well. 33:51 It's going to cause her to choose well, 33:54 it's simply will. 33:55 It's the same way for young men, 33:56 it's the same way for older men and older women. 33:59 So instead of pushing away someone in crisis, 34:04 it's our job to get alongside in the trenches 34:07 as we talked about and say, I will walk beside you, 34:11 I'm a living testament to people saying, 34:14 I will walk beside you, 34:17 having the courage to walk beside. 34:19 My mom, who was in crisis, but I can say honestly, 34:23 were it not for their willingness to do that, 34:26 our lives would have been very different. 34:28 Yes. That's incredible. 34:30 God has called you to be a preacher. 34:32 I just want you to know that. I can hear that. 34:34 She starts to talk and just the Holy Spirit comes out, 34:36 that's powerful, both of you. 34:37 Praise the Lord. Thank you. 34:39 God calls us to walk alongside. 34:41 And if you are in crisis like that young girl 34:43 you told the story about. 34:45 If you are a family that's just broken apart right now 34:47 and not even knowing where to turn, 34:49 we encourage you to contact Mafgia ministry. 34:52 You can... Their website is mafgia.com. 34:58 You can email them, info@mafgia.com. 35:02 That's info@mafgia.com. 35:05 Or you can give them a call, 35:07 that's 706-527-4882. 35:13 That number once again is 35:14 706-527-4882. 35:19 Now we got to move on to the next story. 35:20 We have, you've seen the Word of God 35:23 to advocate for abortion? 35:25 Yes. 35:27 Now that just seems like, 35:28 how could that even happen, right? 35:30 Well, you know, we share these stories 35:33 because we are, we firmly believe 35:35 the Lord is saying, 35:37 "There is a better way, choose My way." 35:39 We encountered a story of a young woman who, 35:41 she was in her 30s, and she had written to us, 35:44 and she was experiencing a lot of family pressure 35:47 to have an abortion. 35:49 And the thing that her father used to convince her, 35:55 to have an abortion was the Word, it was Scripture. 35:59 And that was heartbreaking. 36:02 You think of Jesus, He was the word made flesh. 36:06 He literally came to earth and died a sacrificial death 36:09 so that we could live. 36:11 There is no... 36:13 There are no scriptures in the Word 36:16 that either explicitly say or implicitly imply that 36:19 we're allowed to take the lives of our unborn children. 36:22 That principle simply is not there. 36:24 What is there is a story of the God who loves us. 36:29 It's the story of a God who established our value 36:32 at creation, and He fortified, He entrenched it 36:36 forevermore with His blood at the cross. 36:39 That's the story that's being told in Scripture. 36:43 And the tragedy is not just the way 36:49 that this was used in this particular woman's life, 36:52 but what might have been possible if her spiritual head, 36:58 her spiritual authority had chosen to stand 37:01 on the truth of this word 37:03 because imagine if he had... 37:09 He'd been willing to make the hard choice, 37:11 to have the difficult conversation 37:13 and say, do you know, daughter, that the Lord of glory, 37:18 He crafted you with love and design, 37:21 that literally once upon a time, you did not exist, 37:24 and now you do because you are brought into existence 37:28 by the finger of God, 37:30 not just you but your unborn child. 37:33 Think of the difference it would have made 37:35 not just in her particular story 37:37 but in all of her future. 37:40 Absolutely, that's incredible. 37:41 You know what I keep hearing the thread running through 37:44 is, who we are in Jesus. 37:46 If we can catch a glimpse of who am I in Jesus, 37:50 the value that God has placed on each one of us, 37:54 what a difference it would make, 37:55 and what a difference it would make in the choices 37:58 and the decisions we would make, 38:00 and the decisions maybe we've made in the past 38:02 that we regret. 38:03 We still have value in God's eyes, 38:05 and so what a difference that makes 38:06 in the healing process. 38:08 That's beautiful. 38:09 What about walking alongside a child in crisis? 38:14 We, Dianne and I both met, have met many couples 38:18 who are just talking from a real place of pain. 38:22 And a couple years ago, we met a couple who, 38:26 they had just discovered their daughter was pregnant, 38:30 and they were raw in that honesty. 38:35 "What is, what are people going to say about me, 38:37 about my parenting? 38:39 Are they going to say I was a bad parent 38:41 that I didn't raise her to love the Lord?" 38:42 Just very raw with us. 38:45 And it was remarkable because if we would be willing 38:48 to be that honest with ourselves 38:50 and with the Lord. 38:51 Well, we have the opportunity to dialog with them 38:53 over the next couple of days. 38:55 And out of the corner of my eye, 38:58 it was the last day of the convention, 39:00 I saw the father in the situation. 39:03 He was talking to Dianne, and he said, 39:05 "I'm the granddad." 39:08 He took ownership of it. He did. 39:11 And what just blessed us, this was a pastor. 39:14 And he had just moved to a new church, 39:18 they didn't know their congregation, 39:20 and so they were faced with that embarrassment. 39:23 But to see the value they were preserving 39:26 the dignity of their daughter, 39:29 and they were telling their daughter, 39:31 you are more valuable than the opinions of others. 39:35 And the rest of her life, that daughter will grow up 39:39 feeling that kind of love. 39:43 It was such a beautiful thing to see. 39:45 Now of course, they cried, those parents, 39:47 they were heart sick for their daughter, 39:50 and the mother wept. 39:52 But they didn't abandon her. Yes. 39:54 And by not abandoning her 39:56 and by choosing to stick with her, 39:59 the message was profound, 40:01 the message they were giving her. 40:03 And by speaking out and by breaking the silence 40:07 on this issue, we can give that same message 40:11 to our young daughters and sons within our church. 40:14 What a difference that girl has as opposed to the girl 40:17 who was trying to bind herself. 40:19 Yes. Exactly. 40:20 That just tears me up, and hide that pregnancy, 40:22 and what a difference, and realizing that 40:25 her parents still value her, and still lover her, 40:27 and she can grow up in that. 40:29 That's beautiful. 40:30 Now you have a poem I think, and a story behind a poem. 40:34 Dianne, why don't you share that with us? 40:36 This was a young woman we met at one of our retreats. 40:40 Actually they had asked us if we would stay over 40:43 and have one more program for those 40:46 who could not make it to the retreat. 40:48 And we were willing, of course, so. 40:52 But no one showed. 40:53 Not one person showed except for this one young lady. 40:57 And we just knew immediately it was ordained 41:00 and she had had an abortion, and we encouraged her 41:04 to go through the retreat, 41:06 Rachel's Vineyard is the retreat 41:07 that I went through. 41:09 So that's the one that at this point 41:11 I encourage people to go through. 41:12 And where is that located? 41:13 Well, you can their 1800 number and they have them all 41:17 throughout the country. 41:18 And I was in North Carolina, so of course, 41:22 I went to the one that was closest to me. 41:25 And she was in the North East, so she found one close to her. 41:31 So she did, she went through the retreat 41:34 and had just a tremendous experience. 41:36 And then she wrote this poem and I'm just gonna read 41:38 part of it, but I just love it. 41:44 "Twice a year I mourn for you as any mother would. 41:48 Twice a year I think of you and dream of all that should. 41:53 The tiny hairs that curl around, 41:56 your tiny ears and face, 41:58 eyes that should have seen the world 42:01 another time and place. 42:03 I dream of all the things you dream 42:05 and all the things you'd play, of little squeals of laughter 42:10 if I'd only let you stay. 42:13 I dream of tiny fingers how they wrap around my hand 42:17 and all the love I'd give to you, 42:19 the perfect love so grand. 42:21 I think about your little eyes if they'd be blue or brown. 42:26 I wish I could have seen you smile or even cry or frown. 42:31 I wish you had the chance to live the life 42:34 I know you should. 42:36 For if you had you wouldn't be a should, or would, or could. 42:42 I think about your little legs, all the places you would run. 42:46 The things I could have taught you 42:48 so full of life and fun, 42:51 like, why the clouds can't hold you up, 42:54 or why the sky is blue, or how to build a snowman, 42:59 or how much your mom loves you. 43:02 I tell you that the world is round, 43:04 the sun above, the moon, the stars and all the universe, 43:08 they all exist for you. 43:11 Twice a year I mourn for you. 43:14 This year you would be three, 43:16 and I never will forgive myself for not allowing you to be." 43:21 That is such a powerful, powerful poem, 43:24 but there is so much healing in that because like, 43:27 I think I mentioned earlier, she had embraced the child, 43:32 her child, to get out of the statistics 43:36 and claimed it as her own. 43:38 And now she has the hope of knowing that 43:40 she'll hold that baby again some day. 43:43 So there is great healing. 43:45 And I encourage every woman I encounter 43:48 who has been through an abortion 43:50 to go through an abortion recovery program 43:53 because of this. 43:54 That's powerful. It's huge. 43:56 It's huge to think to write that down 43:58 and to own that loss, you could say. 44:02 My husband Greg and I, we've been open about this. 44:07 We can't have children, so we've walked 44:09 in infertility journey for 15 years. 44:11 And as you read that poem, I resonated with that 44:14 because I'm more infertile than I ever had, 44:17 where this woman is mourning for the children 44:19 that she had and then she lost. 44:23 But that's powerful, that healing that God can do. 44:27 What about mental barriers? 44:29 I know we just have a few moments left. 44:32 People who say, we don't have that problem. 44:37 No, right, both of us. 44:39 What is, really we have, it's been really remarkable 44:42 as when someone attempts to bring a sin. 44:46 Sometimes there's push back, and someone might say, 44:49 we don't have that problem here. 44:51 It is a problem. 44:53 The Lord is asking us to be honest, 44:56 simply to be honest. 44:57 Not to pretend, and not to put up a facade, 45:01 but just to say, this is who I am. 45:03 And the thing about being honest 45:04 about this issue is we liberate. 45:08 The evil one keeps people bound in shackles and chains. 45:12 And the Lord has called us forward to be people 45:16 who liberate by the power of the Holy Spirit. 45:18 That's what we do, we help to set captives free. 45:21 Well, if we pretend that this isn't a problem, 45:24 and if we say, we don't deal with that, 45:28 or we don't need to address it, 45:30 we're standing as a barrier between the post abortive 45:34 man and woman, and the cross. 45:36 That's profound, that we're literally 45:40 not allowing people to experience the hope, 45:43 the healing, the freedom, the forgiveness 45:45 that the Lord has invited them into. 45:48 We must be honest with Him about who we are, 45:50 about what we've done. 45:52 That's where the freedom is. Amen. 45:55 I think it's a huge awakening when people who have invited us 46:01 to their church, and then after we left, 46:05 we share with them, yes, indeed, 46:07 there's five or six people in your congregation, 46:10 you know, that have... 46:12 And they're saying, I didn't know any. 46:13 Exactly. 46:15 Or they might, their preface might have been, 46:16 well, we don't really have that problem. 46:18 And then of course, 46:19 we give our information to schools... 46:22 Yes, that's good. You speak to schools? 46:25 If they invite us. 46:27 If they invite us, but unfortunately we hear that too, 46:29 we don't have that problem here. 46:31 Right. 46:32 We're Christians. Yes, right. 46:35 As if to say Christians don't have issues, 46:38 and Christians don't deal with stuff, 46:39 and we don't deal with stuff within 46:41 the Seventh-day Adventist church. 46:42 We want to put up their contact information again. 46:45 If you are a school, if you are a principal of the school 46:49 and you might be in that condition 46:51 and be saying, well, I'm not even sure 46:53 we have that issue 'cause we are Seventh-day Adventists, 46:55 we follow the truth. 46:57 This is the pervasive issue because it's human. 46:59 It's our humanity. 47:01 And so it is so important to raise awareness, to educate, 47:06 to work to bring healing to those who are in pain, 47:11 and to work to bring prevention for the future. 47:14 So if you are a principal, 47:15 if you are a teacher of the school, 47:17 we want to encourage you to contact this ministry. 47:21 If you are a pastor of a congregation, 47:25 we want to encourage you to have them come in 47:26 for a weekend at your church. 47:29 If you are a local conference 47:32 within the Seventh-day Adventist church, 47:33 or even another denomination, 47:35 and you want them to come into your area 47:37 to speak about these issues, 47:40 and to educate, and to train the pastors, 47:42 we just encourage you to go to mafgia.com. 47:45 Or you can call them, 706-527-4882. 47:52 Or you can email, info@mafgia.com. 47:55 I know we have a few moments left 47:56 before we go to the news break. 47:58 What would be some of the needs in your ministry? 48:02 Is there some needs that you have in the ministry 48:04 that we can help with, 48:06 that our 3ABN viewers at home can help with? 48:08 What are some of the things 48:09 that you are looking for the future? 48:11 Maybe some goals you have, and then you say, oh, 48:13 but we have these needs. 48:14 What would be some things? 48:16 Well, the number one absolutely would be prayer. 48:18 This issue from top to bottom, it's a spiritual issue 48:21 because it attacks the people who are made 48:24 in the image of the Lord. 48:25 And the evil one has deceived us 48:27 and he's tricked us into accepting lie 48:29 and believing it as truth. 48:31 And so truly people praying, that is what is moving. 48:36 It's moving people's hearts, it's awakening people's minds. 48:40 And people who before were silent, 48:42 they're coming to life again. 48:44 And it's absolutely phenomenal and glorious. 48:49 We are hoping that bigger venues 48:52 in terms of the message been able to get 48:55 in front of women, get in front of men, 48:57 get in front of pastors will open up. 48:59 And we see the Lord doing that more and more. 49:01 Now you're doing, women's retreats you've done... 49:03 You've done ASI, spoken to ASI, GYC... 49:07 What are some of the other venues 49:08 that you've been to? 49:09 AMEN, we spoke at AMEN. 49:11 Adventist Medical Evangelism Network, okay. 49:15 That's right. 49:16 At camp meeting last year, 49:18 different churches giving seminars. 49:20 We just went to Canada which was exciting for us. 49:22 Yeah. Yeah, that was real good. 49:25 And you know, you were talking about request and prayer, 49:29 pray for the pastors and the teachers 49:32 that are wrestling with whether or not 49:33 to bring the subject into the school 49:36 because like Antionette says, so many times we hear, 49:39 if I'm bringing something about abortion, 49:42 isn't it a condoning sexual activity? 49:45 And it's not that at all because 49:47 when you incorporate value, it's gonna effect the decisions 49:52 you make as a young teenager, or, you know, a young man, 49:56 how he treats a young woman, and vice versa. 49:59 So it's not condoning sexual behavior 50:03 outside of God's plan. 50:05 If anything discourages that and look more of yourself, 50:09 protect the dignity of the woman you're dating. 50:11 Amen. Or the dignity of the man. 50:14 Don't put him in a position where he's gonna be temped. 50:17 Yeah, absolutely. 50:20 I want to give each one of you an opportunity, 50:21 and if we don't have before we go to the news break, 50:24 we'll do some of this afterwards as well. 50:26 But let's start with you, Antionette, 50:27 I want to give you an opportunity 50:29 to look into the camera right over there, 50:31 and to make an appeal to someone maybe right now 50:33 who's in the valley of decision, I don't know, 50:35 should I abort, should I not, what should I do? 50:38 What would you tell her? 50:40 I would say that you are so loved, 50:45 and my deepest desire is that you would come to understand 50:48 how magnificently you're loved, how incredibly valuable you are 50:55 not because of what you do, or achieve, or posses, 50:59 but simply because you are made in the image of the Lord 51:02 that His hand literally crafted you 51:04 and brought you into existence, that you would come to see 51:08 not only your value but also the value of that unborn child, 51:13 and that I pray that He would bring people 51:15 alongside you. 51:16 Contact us who will be able to walk with you 51:20 through the difficulty of that circumstances 51:22 so that you and your unborn child 51:25 can be preserved. 51:27 Amen. 51:28 Dianne, what would you say, if someone's struggling 51:30 with that decision right now, what would you say? 51:32 Well, my burden would be for those of you 51:35 who are struggling with a decision 51:38 to abort your past that if this is something 51:41 that is keeping you cripple, or you're afraid to go there, 51:45 I can tell you I have been there, 51:49 and I have felt that shame, 51:52 and I have felt that darkness where there is no hope. 51:55 And now I'm smiling, and I can cry and smile 51:59 at the same time because you can live again 52:02 like you thought you never would be able to. 52:05 You can experience wholeness and restoration 52:08 like you never thought you could. 52:10 And it's because of Jesus, not just His redemption 52:14 but His restoration. 52:15 And if you need to contact us, please do 52:18 because I can put you in touch with people 52:20 that can help you go there 'cause I know 52:23 it's a very scary place to go sometimes. 52:25 Amen. Thank you both so much. 52:28 What an incredible ministry, 52:30 how God is using you, and I'm so excited. 52:32 We're going to go to our news break at this time, 52:34 and then we'll be back with some closing thoughts. |
Revised 2018-02-22