Participants:
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY017034A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:19 Removing pain 00:24 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:07 Hello and welcome again to 3ABN Today program. 01:11 We are so glad that you take this time out 01:13 to join us each and every day, 01:15 and this is going to be a program 01:18 that is very special. 01:20 It's something that 01:22 we're going to be focusing on something 01:24 that needs our attention as Christians, 01:26 and I believe that this is God's timing 01:30 for this program. 01:31 Before I introduce our special guests, 01:33 I want to share a scripture with you 01:35 and this scripture is one of the most important 01:38 that Paul wrote, I believe, and he is writing to Timothy, 01:41 in 1 Timothy 2, he is telling him, 01:45 "We need to pray for all people," 01:47 and then he says in verse 3, 01:50 "For this is good and acceptable 01:51 in the side of God, our Savior, 01:53 who desires all men, all of humanity to be saved," 01:59 and this is something, and then he goes on to say, 02:02 "Not only to be saved, to come to the knowledge of the truth, 02:06 for there is one God and one mediator 02:10 between God and man, 02:11 the man, Christ Jesus. 02:13 It is so important for us to realize 02:16 that we cannot compartmentalize our belief in Jesus Christ 02:23 and separate ourselves from other people groups. 02:27 You know, sometimes it's like we're good Christians 02:29 when we're with other Christians, 02:31 but God wants us to reach out to all men, 02:34 whether they are Hindu or Muslim 02:36 or whatever their religion is, 02:40 and today we have two very special guests with us 02:43 and let me introduce our special guests. 02:45 We have Dr. Conrad Vine, 02:47 who is the president of Adventists Frontier Missions. 02:51 We're so glad that you're here with us today. 02:53 It's a joy to be here, Shelley, with you. 02:54 Yes, and we love that British accent of yours, 02:57 and then we have Pastor Michee Bade 03:00 and you are a frontline worker for Adventist Frontier Mission. 03:03 Exactly. 03:04 We praise God for his special hedge of protection 03:06 around you and your wife and your two children, 03:09 because on the frontline you are put in very critical 03:12 and dangerous positions at times. 03:14 Today, we are going to be talking about 03:16 the Adventist Frontier Mission work to the Muslims, 03:21 and there are 1.3 to 1.4 billion Muslims 03:27 on earth today. 03:29 God is not going to send His Son, Jesus Christ, 03:32 back for us until we've reached this people group, 03:36 and it is so exciting to see 03:38 how the Holy Spirit is working with individual Muslims 03:43 to give them dreams and visions, 03:45 to introduce them to Jesus Christ 03:48 as the Son of God, 03:49 but how we are so thankful 03:53 for the work Adventist Frontier Missions is doing, 03:56 because this is putting flesh on the message of Jesus Christ 04:00 and they're out there reaching these precious people 04:04 who are becoming very devout 04:06 Seventh-day Adventist Christians. 04:09 Before we get into the heart of the story, 04:12 we have someone very special with us today 04:15 who is going to bring a message for us in song. 04:18 This is one of my favorite people, T. Marshall Kelly, 04:21 and he is going to be singing, 04:23 "The Unveiled Christ". 04:37 Once our blessed Christ 04:40 Of beauty 04:45 Was veiled off from human view 04:55 But through suffering, death, 04:57 And sorrow 05:04 He has rent the veil in two 05:13 O behold 05:16 The Man of Sorrows! 05:22 O behold Him in plain view! 05:30 Lo! 05:32 He is 05:34 The mighty conqueror 05:41 Since He rent 05:43 The veil in two 05:49 Lo! 05:50 He is the mighty conqueror 05:59 Since He rent the veil in two 06:10 Yes, He is with God, 06:13 The Father 06:20 Interceding there for you 06:29 For He is the well beloved 06:37 Since He rent the veil in two 06:47 Holy angels 06:49 Bow before Him 06:56 Men of earth give praises due 07:04 For He is the mighty conqueror 07:13 Since He rent that veil in two 07:21 O behold The Man of Sorrows! 07:29 O behold Him 07:33 In plain view 07:39 Lo! 07:40 He is the mighty conqueror 07:47 Since He rent that veil in two 07:58 Lo! He is 08:00 The mighty conqueror 08:08 Since He rent 08:12 The veil 08:16 In two 08:36 That is one of my special, 08:38 most beloved brothers in Jesus Christ. 08:41 He is someone who is truly special 08:44 and his relationship with the Lord is so intimate, 08:46 it's precious, so we appreciate T. Marshall Kelly 08:49 singing for us. 08:51 Well, if you're joining us just a few minutes late, 08:53 we've got a barn burner. 08:56 Today, we're going to be talking with Dr. Conrad Vine 09:00 and excuse me Pastor Michee Bade 09:04 who are with Adventists Frontier 09:06 Missions, and once again, 09:08 thank you for coming 09:10 and thank you that we're going to be talking 09:12 about a topic as large as this, 09:16 "The work with the Muslim people," 09:18 but before we get into it, 09:20 we would like to just get to know the man 09:22 just a little bit better. 09:23 Dr. Conrad Vine, you've told me to call you Conrad, 09:27 give us a little of who you are, 09:29 just a brief little nutshell? 09:32 Well, Shelley, I was born in the United Kingdom. 09:35 My father was a pastor, 09:37 and my parents were a pastoral team 09:40 in the northern industrial cities. 09:41 I gave my life to Jesus Christ at the age of 13. 09:44 I went to a camp meeting, 09:45 I heard a preacher speaking about Hosea and Gomer 09:48 and God's love the wayward children. 09:50 And I went to the front of the altar call, 09:52 and that was the best decision of my life. 09:55 And since then, I've served with ADRA for many years 09:58 in Central Asia and pastored in the UK, 10:01 and here in North America, and for the last five years, 10:04 I've been serving with Adventist Frontier Missions 10:06 in Berrien Springs, Michigan. 10:09 I met my wife in the former Soviet Union. 10:11 She was raised a communist and I was raised an Adventist, 10:15 I went to Pathfinders, she went to the Pioneers. 10:18 And I never imagined just growing up in the 1980s 10:21 that my wife was on the other side 10:22 of the Iron Curtain, 10:24 but God works in mysterious ways, 10:25 so when communism collapsed, Adventist missionaries, 10:29 lay preachers, lay evangelists 10:30 went all across the former Soviet Union. 10:33 My wife went to one of those evangelistic series 10:35 and gave her life to Jesus Christ 10:37 and about five years ago, 10:38 her parents followed that decision 10:39 and they gave their lives to Jesus Christ as well. 10:41 Praise God. 10:43 So you are a PK, a preacher's kid, 10:46 who has really made that intimate personal connection 10:50 not relying on your father 10:52 or your parents' religious beliefs, 10:55 but you really connected with the Lord, 10:56 and did you ever wander away, 10:59 or just was once you found the path, 11:02 did you stick to that path? 11:04 No, I stuck to the path. Praise God. 11:06 When I was 17, 11:08 I took a year out after high school, 11:10 I went to the Middle East to work, 11:12 and on the day I was flying out, 11:13 I was reading through the Bible actually, 11:15 and I came to Joshua 1, the first nine verses, 11:19 where God said to Joshua that 11:20 if you meditate on my law night and day 11:23 and do not depart from it, it's the right or to the left, 11:25 I'll be with you wherever you go, 11:26 you'll be successful wherever you go, 11:28 and so do not be afraid. 11:29 And God was making a personal covenant 11:31 with me then and 11:32 I've stuck with that covenant every day of my life. 11:34 Glory to God, what a testimony. 11:36 I love that, 11:37 and then Pastor Michee Bade, tell us, 11:40 did you grew up in a Christian home? 11:43 Well, yes, I was born in a Christian family, 11:48 my father and my mother together 11:51 run an evangelical church in Ivory Coast, Cote d'Ivoire, 11:56 that's West Africa and, 11:58 but I had my grandfather and my grandmother 12:03 from my mother's side were Muslims, 12:07 and when I had time, 12:09 I will spend time with them on the mat, 12:13 try to imitate the way they were praying, 12:16 but very early my parents took us 12:20 to some Adventist schools, 12:22 because my dad was working for the government, 12:24 so when I was nine-years-old, my dad said, 12:28 he has been reading some books from the church 12:31 that are very meaningful, that are very convincing, 12:34 that are biblically sound, 12:37 that he would like us to attend that school. 12:39 The Adventist... these are Adventist books then, huh? 12:42 Yeah, Adventist books that a butcher 12:44 brought to his office. 12:46 So we were sent to Adventist school 12:50 to finish our primary education, 12:52 and that was my first exposure with the Adventist message, 12:57 but, because my father was working for the government, 13:00 so we had to move very often. 13:02 So from my secondary education, 13:04 we moved with our parents to a town 13:06 where there was no Adventist school. 13:08 So we went back to public schools, 13:10 and that was when I had contact with Adventism 13:14 until when I was 19. 13:17 There was an Adventist minister 13:19 that had three weeks' series on the Revelation. 13:23 Yes. 13:24 So it was during holidays, 13:25 and I said, "Oh, I know this church," 13:27 and I decided to attend the series, 13:30 that's where God called me again, 13:32 and I decided to get baptized. 13:35 So I was the first in my family to join the Adventist Church, 13:39 but God affected me in a way that my life changed 13:45 and my parents were so impressed 13:46 with the new life I had, 13:48 that my dad decided to join the church four years later, 13:52 and I was blessed when I was pastoring 13:56 in my last mission field to baptize my mother. 14:01 So... Precious. 14:03 She didn't want to join the Adventist church 14:05 because she didn't want to be restricted 14:08 on diet, on this and that, 14:11 but after she saw 14:13 how God has used me in my last mission experience 14:17 when she came to visit, 14:19 the Holy Spirit touched at heart 14:20 and she said, "My son, you know what? 14:22 I think I've resisted too long 14:24 to the voice of the Holy Spirit. 14:25 What I've seen you're doing is enough for me 14:28 to see that God has called you 14:31 to be used in this ministry, in this church, 14:35 and I think God is also calling me 14:37 to join this ministry and this church 14:40 at least to share your faith and pray for you, 14:44 and we are supporting your ministry." 14:46 Glory to God. 14:47 Now, what about your maternal grandparents 14:49 who are Muslim? 14:50 Did they ever convert? 14:52 Well, my grandfather died 14:53 before he was exposed to Christianity, 14:57 but I was happy 14:58 when I saw my grandmother in the late years 15:01 when she came to stay with us. 15:05 She said that she wanted also to try 15:07 the Christian prayer style, 15:10 and we were surprised when she told us, 15:13 "It makes more sense, 15:15 I feel more happy the way I pray like you Christians. 15:19 So she gave her life to Christ and got baptized 15:23 before she died. 15:25 Praise God, praise God. 15:26 All right, Conrad, 15:28 tell us a little about Adventists Frontier Missions. 15:31 It is such a great work. 15:33 Well, thank you, we started in 1985, 15:36 some students, Andrews University, 15:39 led by Clyde Morgan, 15:41 they felt a burden to become missionaries 15:43 to the unreached peoples of the world. 15:45 And there are about 16,000 15:48 people groups in the world today 15:49 and even today there are over 8,000 15:52 unreached people groups 15:53 who have never heard the gospel, 15:54 almost 40% of the world's population, 15:57 and that percentage is growing year by year. 16:00 And so they counseled 16:02 with faculty at Andrews University 16:04 and God gave birth 16:06 to a new mission agency called AFM, 16:09 and the first missionaries launched the Scalzis 16:11 to the Ifugao people in the Philippines in 1987, 16:17 and six years later, they planted thriving churches, 16:20 and they handed the work back 16:21 to the local Adventist conference 16:23 and they returned home, 16:25 and that work has grown and grown 16:27 and since then we've grown 16:28 to be working in about 20 countries 16:30 around the world. 16:31 We only work when the church asks us to send missionaries. 16:35 We're supporting ministry, 16:37 and we are inundated with requests for missionaries, 16:39 we simply cannot find enough people 16:41 to serve as missionaries. 16:43 In the last four years, 16:44 we've opened an office in South Africa and in Brazil, 16:47 and we are now recruiting 16:48 and financing and hiring missionaries 16:51 from South Africa and from Latin America, 16:54 and those young people are now starting to enter 16:57 the 10/40 Mission Window, 16:58 which is where most of the world's 17:00 Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists live. 17:02 Amen, and you know, the thing that I appreciate every time 17:05 I speak with someone 17:06 from Adventist Frontier Missions, 17:09 what I appreciate is that when you go into an area, 17:13 you don't go in just saying, "We've got all the knowledge. 17:16 You really work with the local people 17:18 and the local cultures? 17:20 So this is something that I guess 17:22 that's just woven into the fabric of your being. 17:25 Sure, we expect every missionary 17:27 to learn the local language to a high level of proficiency. 17:30 Some missionaries, for instance, 17:32 in West Africa have to learn French, 17:34 plus a tribal language such as Susu or Manding, 17:37 or Fulani or Malinke, 17:39 and then they do a culture study. 17:41 We want to identify 17:42 what are the redemptive bridges in this culture 17:45 along which the gospel can go. 17:46 Oftentimes, we present the questions 17:49 to the Western heart, 17:50 but people in Southeast Asia 17:52 have different questions on their hearts. 17:54 And we need to identify 17:55 what questions do these people have, 17:57 so we know how to share the gospel, 17:59 the good news of Jesus in a way that's meaningful for them. 18:02 Amen. Amen. 18:03 So what... 18:06 Give us some examples 18:07 then when you were looking at the Muslim world 18:09 particularly in Africa. 18:13 Tell us how the Holy Spirit is influencing that work? 18:17 Well, since the year 2000, 18:19 Jesus has been appearing to Muslims 18:21 all around the world in dreams and visions. 18:23 It's a global phenomenon, 18:25 and He's inviting Muslims to follow Him. 18:27 And if Jesus is reaching out 18:29 to Muslims in dreams and visions, 18:31 then we as the followers of Jesus 18:33 must partner with Jesus in His mission. 18:36 And just recently we had missionaries in Guinea, 18:40 which is a Muslim country in West Africa, 18:43 and they went to the second largest city of that country, 18:46 and there was no Adventist's presence in that city. 18:49 And when they arrived there, 18:51 our missionaries they pray and fast, 18:53 and they say, "God, lead us to a person of peace." 18:56 As Jesus talked about 18:57 in the Gospel of Matthew and Luke, 18:59 "Lead us to someone who is open to receive the gospel, 19:02 and they pray and fast until God makes that connection, 19:05 and these particular missionaries, 19:06 they arrived in the city and they met a man 19:09 who was an Imam a Muslim religious leader 19:12 and he said, "I've been watching Hope TV 19:15 from Abidjan in Cote d'Ivoire, Ivory Coast, 19:18 and they are talking about the prophecies of Daniel, 19:20 and I can't find anybody to explain 19:22 the prophecies of Daniel to me, could you do this? 19:25 So our missionaries shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ 19:28 and the prophecies of Jesus in the Book of Daniel. 19:30 That man was baptized. 19:32 He now leads the first ever Adventist Church 19:34 in that large city of Guinea. 19:36 And that church is comprised all of Muslims, ex-Muslims 19:39 who have been baptized into Seventh-day Adventist faith. 19:42 And you know, this is happening over and over, 19:44 we had a gentleman here 19:45 who is a professor at one of our universities. 19:47 I won't give his name, 19:49 but he was speaking and had a Muslim approach him 19:53 and he said, 19:54 I've got a group of men who want to talk to you. 19:57 And there were six Imams 19:59 and he said that when he walked into the room 20:02 they had 3ABN on and so he said, 20:04 because he was a little nervous at first, 20:06 but they walked in the room 20:07 and 3ABN was on 20:09 and they had questions and likewise, 20:12 so, we're seeing God with peasants, 20:16 with professors, with Imams, 20:19 God is reaching out to this people and you know, 20:22 this is something I always say, 20:24 you know, people would say, 20:25 God can't finish the work without us, 20:27 but we can't finish the work without God. 20:29 He is the one who is opening the doors, 20:32 but then, he needs the flesh and bone people to go in there. 20:36 How did you become, Pastor Michee, 20:39 how did you become involved 20:42 with Adventist Frontier Missions? 20:44 Thank you. 20:46 I worked for almost seven years 20:49 as associate district pastor in my country, 20:52 Ivory Coast, in the capital city of Abidjan, 20:55 and I had a call to go to Burkina Faso, 20:59 that's a neighboring country in Ivory Coast. 21:02 It was then there, that I had to travel 21:07 with Late Kurten Glob, 21:12 he had a project in Burkina Faso. 21:15 So, it was during those trips that we discussed 21:20 and he told me about what AFM does, 21:24 their unique approach to mission, 21:27 to study the culture, 21:29 and to see what they can get from the culture 21:33 and design a strategy to reach out, 21:36 and I felt very interested, 21:38 because I was then 21:39 the evangelist of the Burkina Faso mission, 21:44 also the coordinator of global mission, 21:46 and I was in charge of Sabbath School and Personal Ministry, 21:50 but I didn't see that we were taking time 21:54 to study the culture of the people, 21:56 who we were sending our lay people to, 21:59 and I felt that, that approach will maybe interest me, 22:04 and he told me after three days together, 22:09 that the way I was asking questions 22:11 and processing the information was giving me, 22:14 I could be a good prospect for Adventist Frontier Missions. 22:17 So when he returned back in US in northeast, 22:21 he mentioned my name to the office, 22:24 and it was a long process that had like 12 steps 22:29 and it was a big challenge for us, 22:32 because then there were no... 22:38 African from West Africa or may be, 22:42 south of the Sahara that have joined AFM 22:44 because we were required to raise almost $10,000 22:50 to go for orientation in US. 22:52 So he said, the big problem will be 22:55 to raise that amount here in Africa, 22:57 which was next to a miracle. 22:59 So my wife and I, we prayed about it, 23:00 we fasted almost seven days 23:03 and when I decided to inform my union and my confidants, 23:09 they were not happy about it. 23:11 They had planned for me 23:13 at the local mission a local conference 23:17 and so, that was a big barrier 23:19 because I couldn't talk about my plan to my colleagues 23:23 and to the churches I was pastoring. 23:25 So we prayed and we said, God, 23:27 if you want us to begin this experience 23:30 this, to be in this ministry, make that miracle. 23:36 And we were surprised 23:37 when some friends from England, and from Portugal, 23:42 that were working for ADRA took 23:46 the little brochure we prepared 23:48 about what God was calling us to do 23:50 and what we needed to do make that call a reality, 23:55 that took that to Portugal and England, 23:59 and a businessman was touched, some years before, 24:04 to put some money aside for a special mission project. 24:08 So when he was introduced to our call 24:11 and what God wanted us to do, 24:14 and the challenge for us to answer that call, he said, 24:17 "Maybe these are the people 24:19 God asked me to put money aside for." 24:20 Praise God. 24:22 Instead of $10,000, he donated $30,000. 24:26 Oh. Praise God. 24:27 So, that's how we were able to go for 24:29 our orientation in Berrien Springs, 24:33 and in the last step of our process, 24:35 and that was in 2005. 24:38 And you know, I just have to say that, praise God, 24:40 that He gave you a very godly wife. 24:43 Amen. 24:44 And gave her the courage, because I know, 24:46 you have two children, 24:48 and to move from a relatively peaceful situation 24:53 into a situation like this, 24:55 we're going to talk about some of the experiences 24:57 he's had in just a moment, but how many... 25:00 how many pastors do you now have 25:03 who are reaching out? 25:04 How many missionaries are reaching out to the Muslims? 25:08 Well, around the world with AFM, 25:10 we have about 15 to 20 projects in different countries 25:14 working with Muslim groups. 25:17 How many do you need? 25:19 We need thousands. Okay. 25:21 The work among the Muslims 25:23 is maybe the greatest story 25:24 of the 21st century in terms of missions, 25:27 and the Holy Spirit is going before, 25:30 there's just a lack of people willing to step forward 25:32 and say, "Hey, I'm here, my Lord, sent me." 25:35 And yet wherever our missionaries go, 25:36 they find that the Holy Spirit is already preparing hearts, 25:40 and people across the Muslim world 25:42 are waiting for a living Christian 25:44 to come and meet with them 25:45 and to say this is what it means 25:46 to follow Jesus Christ and so, 25:50 we are always looking for people 25:52 who sense a call in their heart to serve 25:54 among the Muslim peoples of the world. 25:56 Now, Conrad, Muslims 26:00 believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet 26:03 but they do not believe, 26:04 the Quran does not present the Christ as the Son of God. 26:11 I do believe they have some belief in the spirit 26:14 but they think that Christians worshipping a trinity, 26:19 that's like we are worshipping multiple gods, 26:21 they don't understand the idea of a Godhead 26:24 who is three in one. 26:27 Tell us some of the common ground, 26:28 what are some of the starting points, 26:30 and what are some of the challenges? 26:32 Well, like Muslims, 26:34 we believe in the soon return of Jesus Christ. 26:37 And they do as well. That surprises a lot of people. 26:40 They believe that He had a miraculous beginning 26:42 and they believe that He is in heaven above today 26:45 and that He is coming again. 26:46 They believe in the final judgment. 26:49 Muslims believe that we should not drink alcohol, 26:53 that we should live humble lives, 26:55 pious lives before God, 26:57 and that we should avoid unclean meats. 27:00 And so there are many common areas with Muslims. 27:03 And you are right, 27:04 many Muslims think that Christianity is, 27:07 they associate it with immorality 27:09 with alcohol and with pork, 27:11 and when we share the good news, 27:12 we say that God has an end time people 27:16 who are waiting for the coming of Jesus. 27:18 And God is inviting people from every religious background 27:21 from the Catholic background, from the Hindu background, 27:24 from the secular background, from the Muslim background 27:26 to join that end time movement 27:28 who are preparing for and waiting for 27:30 the coming of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, 27:32 that end time movement is the Seventh-day Adventist movement. 27:36 And so, when Muslims hear 27:37 that there is a Seventh-day Adventist movement 27:40 and that we are distinct from the rest of Christianity, 27:42 that we do not eat pork, and drink alcohol, 27:44 and we avoid immorality is very attractive to them 27:48 because they know that in the whole of the Quran, 27:51 Jesus is the preeminent figure. 27:53 Now, you may say the glass is half empty in the Quran 27:56 when it comes to the divinity of Jesus 27:58 but they know that there is something special about Jesus, 28:01 and so when they hear people 28:02 talking about the coming of Jesus, 28:03 and what does it mean 28:05 to prepare for the coming of Jesus, 28:06 and how we can live godly and holy lives 28:08 as the Apostle Peter said, as we wait for His coming, 28:12 and they hear that one of the titles of Jesus 28:14 is the Prince of Peace, 28:16 to Muslims who are living in a world 28:18 that is torn by violence 28:20 and the overwhelming majority of victims 28:22 of Islamic terrorisms are fellow Muslims, 28:24 it is not Christians. 28:26 So Muslims who are living in the world 28:27 in a community torn by violence, 28:30 the truth that Jesus is the Prince of Peace 28:33 is a beautiful message. 28:34 And so when missionaries go into Muslim communities, 28:37 we are praying and fasting for God to reveal upon 28:41 whose heart the Holy Spirit has already been at work, 28:44 and wherever you go in the Muslim world, 28:45 you always find people who are open to the gospel. 28:48 But how difficult, how would you explain... 28:51 let's just hit the pause button on this on your experience. 28:55 How would you explain Muslim theology? 29:00 Well, the Muslim world is divided into many sects, 29:03 as many groups as there are within Christendom, 29:06 but if there is one thing 29:07 Muslims around the world can agree on, 29:09 it is that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God. 29:11 Okay. 29:13 And so, when we work with Muslims, 29:16 I view it in these terms that if I work with a Catholic, 29:20 I recognize that Catholic theology 29:23 is actually in the place of Christ. 29:25 Displaces Christ. 29:26 And yet when I speak with an individual Catholic, 29:29 I realize that the Holy Spirit is at work in their hearts, 29:32 and the call to come out of her my people 29:34 applies to that individual and likewise, 29:37 when I share the gospel with a Muslim, 29:40 I realize that Muslim theology is also like Catholic theology, 29:44 opposed to the saving role of Jesus Christ 29:48 and to the nature of who Jesus really is. 29:50 And yet when I listen to a Muslim tell their story 29:53 of their dreams and their visions 29:55 and how Jesus answers their prayers, 29:58 like with the Catholic, 29:59 I recognize that the Holy Spirit 30:01 is at work in this person's life, 30:02 they may not know that just yet. 30:04 And so, it is our role as missionaries 30:06 to affirm the actions of God in people's lives 30:09 where we recognize it. 30:10 Amen. 30:12 And we distinguish between the theology 30:13 and the people within the system. 30:15 And while we reject the theology of Islam 30:17 and we reject the theology of Catholicism, 30:20 we recognize that the call to come out of her 30:22 my people applies to people in Catholicism, 30:25 unfold in Protestantism, and within Islam as well, 30:28 and therefore it is our privilege 30:30 to love them all as Jesus Himself loved them. 30:32 Well said, my brother. 30:35 Now, Michee, 30:36 I know that to Muslims the prayer life 30:40 is something that is very critical. 30:43 What has your experience been 30:45 when you go into the villages of the Muslims? 30:49 I was very happy when God brought my wife to me 30:54 because she came from an Adventist background, 31:01 pastor's wife, 31:03 and one thing that prepared heart for the ministry, 31:08 we're thinking that her father was a former Muslim. 31:12 Say that again, her father was what? 31:13 A former Muslim. A former Muslim. 31:15 Yeah. Wow. 31:17 My wife's dad and most of her 31:20 aunties and uncles are mostly Muslims, 31:23 but he got converted and he put emphasis very early 31:29 when he became an Adventist 31:30 and a Seventh-day Adventist minister 31:32 he put emphasis on a prayer life. 31:36 As a Adventist pastor 31:38 he is known in our country and union 31:41 as one of the Adventist minister 31:42 that have a special spiritual and prayer life. 31:45 Amen. 31:47 So, my wife and I, when we met in 2002, 31:50 and we had this call. 31:52 Our first mission field 31:54 before we joined AFM was among Muslim, 31:56 and so we had some idea 31:58 about how Muslim take the prayer life seriously. 32:01 How they look down on Christians. 32:04 By the way, my wife name is Elmia. 32:07 How they look down on Christian 32:09 because they see us going to church 32:11 only twice a week, and sometimes once a week 32:15 when they go to the mosque five times a day, 32:18 and in Muslim community 32:22 everything revolves around that prayer life. 32:26 When you go to a shop and it is time for prayer 32:30 and the muezzin calls for prayer, 32:32 they will not serve you, 32:34 they'll say please wait, it's time for me to pray. 32:37 And they will go for that ten or five minutes prayer 32:39 before they come back and serve you. 32:41 So when we got to the country where we were working 32:47 and where people group was 99.99 percent Muslim, 32:52 and we studied the culture, 32:54 we asked them some questions 32:56 among maybe five important elements of a day, 33:01 which one would you put first? 33:02 Like having lunch, having prayer time, 33:07 having maybe to discuss family issues, 33:10 and all of them, almost 99 put prayer time first 33:15 and we said, "We need to do something about this." 33:18 So as we were reading the Bible, 33:20 we used to pray three times a day, 33:23 we pray in the morning, 33:24 we pray in the afternoon, we pray in the evening, 33:27 but when we saw that our Muslim friends 33:29 were not seeing us really express 33:31 and develop a prayer life 33:33 that they will appreciate and consider as spiritual life. 33:39 God drew our attention 33:41 to Psalm 119:164, 33:47 and we read that the psalmist says 33:50 seven times a day I praise the Lord. 33:53 So we were convinced that this was an insight 33:56 we could use to really also develop a prayer life 34:00 that would make sense to our Muslim brothers, 34:02 so we divided the 24 hours of a day into seven 34:06 and we started praying seven times a day. 34:09 And we would put clocks and cell phones on alarms, 34:12 so that when every three hours the time reaches, 34:16 we'll have a beep 34:18 and if we are talking with a Muslim friend 34:20 that beep would tell us this is time to pray 34:23 and we would tell our Muslim friend, 34:24 please this is time for us to pray too. 34:26 And when we began that, 34:28 our Muslim friends took us seriously 34:30 and they wondered 34:32 how we came about that prayer life 34:35 because they have never seen that among Christians 34:37 and we told them it is there in our holy scripture 34:41 and that was a big step in our outreach 34:43 among our Muslim friends. 34:45 I would imagine so. 34:46 So, you know, 34:49 we need to use your example to influence us as well. 34:55 I know that many people, 34:59 if there's any area 35:00 that everyone would like to see improvement, 35:02 it is in their prayer life. 35:04 So you were reaching out to these people... 35:09 Do the Muslims in your area are they... 35:13 I mean, they are in Africa, 35:15 is there any blending between the Muslim religion 35:19 and some of the animistic religions, 35:22 do you see any blending there? 35:25 Yeah. 35:26 I, I did a Master Degree in mythology 35:31 with emphasis in Islam. 35:33 And I'm doing right now a doctor degree 35:36 also with emphasis in Islam. 35:39 And I have discovered 35:40 that not only on the literature review side, 35:45 but in practice 35:48 a large majority of Islam practice 35:50 is mixed with the local cultural beliefs 35:54 that we call folk Islam or folk religion. 35:57 So, for example, where I worked for the last ten years, 36:02 the Voodoo influence of that country of Benin, 36:05 it's everywhere. 36:07 Black magic, witchcraft... 36:09 So you're seeing much demon possession? 36:12 Oh, yeah. Wow. 36:13 In ten years, we've had close to 200 deliverance sessions. 36:16 Praise God. 36:18 You know, I just have to say this for our audience. 36:21 I've had a couple of experiences with that, 36:23 but when I was speaking in Johannesburg 36:27 at the South African camp meeting, 36:30 whatever it was called Sedaven. 36:33 We were asking because we get a lot of phone calls here 36:37 in our pastoral department, 36:39 that people cannot find 36:41 many pastors in the United States 36:43 who really even take deliverance seriously 36:46 and we're getting all kinds of calls 36:48 from people who are claiming 36:50 either they are demon possessed or others. 36:53 And when we were there, 36:54 we asked our South African brothers, 36:57 how seriously do you take demon possession and exorcism? 37:03 And they were kind of looking around at each other 37:05 with a slight smile like she is so naive 37:09 and the conference president said to me, 37:12 "I'll tell you how seriously," he said, 37:14 "We fast and pray for three days 37:16 before we go out on one of these calls." 37:19 So you have been involved in about 200 deliverances. 37:23 Yeah, yeah. 37:26 Actually Islam was introduced very early 37:30 among that people group some historians says 37:33 in the 16th century, 17th century 37:36 but it didn't, it didn't touch 37:37 the cultural beliefs of the people. 37:40 Okay. 37:41 So orthodox Islam is against magic, 37:45 against going to a witch doctor, 37:50 but because of cultural reality, 37:53 most of our people come from that animistic background, 37:58 and most of them live in fear 38:01 with cases of demon possessions, 38:03 of harassment, evil spirit harassing them, 38:07 they cannot go in their farm in the night 38:09 because of jealousy, some neighbors, 38:13 farming neighbors will put a spell in their farms, 38:17 so that when they go to work they get sick 38:19 and there is also spiritual competitions, 38:24 I mean, in polygamous families. 38:29 If three women are married to one man, 38:32 and if they want to be the favored or preferred wife, 38:37 they will put a spell in the food, 38:40 so that they will be the first wife 38:43 that draws the attention of the husband, 38:46 or they will make the other wife sick, 38:48 so there is all this mixture of cultural reality 38:53 mixed with Voodoo and Islam. 38:55 And see, to the western mind, that sounds like hocus-pocus 39:00 but there really is, it is very... 39:03 This battle that we are involved in 39:06 is not against flesh and blood, 39:07 but it is against the powers and principalities of the air, 39:11 and there is really an evil power. 39:14 But when you have people coming to see you praying like this, 39:20 have they seen a difference in 39:22 when they're praying to Allah 39:24 or if they're praying to Jesus Christ, 39:27 have they seen a difference in the power of prayer? 39:31 Yeah. 39:32 God has been so faithful to His promises, 39:35 it says in the name of Jesus Christ only shall I bow. 39:38 So when they come they will say, 39:40 we've taken our child or my wife 39:42 has been in different places but no result, 39:47 and we would say, 39:48 "There is saving power in the name of Jesus Christ." 39:52 Amen. 39:53 And they saw the spirit, they will say, 39:56 "I don't care who you pray for or who you call, 40:00 I just want to see a result." 40:03 And when we will pray, we'll fast and pray, 40:05 we ask God to show His healing power, 40:09 His deliverance, 40:10 because He said, these are the same 40:11 that will follow in Matthew 16. 40:14 In his name they will cast out demons, 40:17 so as the Holy Spirit surrounds the place 40:20 so that there is no interference 40:22 with evil spirits, 40:23 sometimes these are family spirits, 40:27 because they are promises from the family 40:30 so that the linage with several spirit, 40:35 so ask God to clean the curses in the family, in the names, 40:40 in the bloodstream, 40:43 and ask God to free those children, 40:45 those women, and it will not take long, 40:49 they will go home. 40:50 Every night, they have to fight with bad dreams, 40:54 it will no more happen. 40:56 And they would be surprised. 40:58 And some have told us 40:59 why is it that praying in the name of Jesus 41:02 has so quick results? 41:04 Because the Quran says in Surah 2 al Baqarah, 41:11 verse 252 that special power was given to Isa al Masih, 41:16 the Son of Mary, to perform miracles. 41:19 So we tell them, if the Quran says that, 41:23 you have tested it, 41:24 it means Christ is true, 41:27 He is living and He cares about you 41:30 and He has all power to set you free 41:32 and to challenge any other spirit. 41:34 Glory to God. Amen. 41:36 But now Conrad, you're a Brit, 41:42 born in the U.K., 41:44 did it seem to you when you first, 41:47 I mean, you've heard these stories of deliverances. 41:49 Was this something that was difficult for you 41:53 to accept in the beginning? 41:56 That's a very good question 41:57 because in Britain our theologians 42:00 in Anglican Christianity, 42:03 they tend to think that Satan is a joke, 42:05 that the demons are not real, 42:07 that these are a relic from a superstitious past. 42:10 And yet, I've been serving in missions 42:12 for over 20 years and over those years, 42:15 I've been drawn more and more into the reality 42:17 of deliverance of people on a regular basis. 42:20 And I see in my own life and ministry 42:22 the reality of demonic deliverances 42:25 from harassment. 42:26 Possession is very rare but harassment is very common. 42:30 And we read in Revelation 12 42:32 that Satan was angry with the woman, 42:33 went off to make war 42:35 with the remnant of her children. 42:36 So the Satan makes the object of his attack God's people. 42:40 And in my experience now as a pastor 42:43 and as the president of AFM, 42:46 it is my privilege to be involved 42:47 in many deliverance sessions 42:49 for people in Africa and here in America, 42:52 and I often find people coming to me after church and say, 42:56 "Pastor, I have a shadow in my life, 42:58 I don't know who I can talk to 43:00 because people think I'm crazy." 43:01 Yes. "Can you help me." 43:03 And I cannot help them 43:04 but as my Pastor Michee has said, 43:07 it is in the name of Jesus Christ 43:08 that people are delivered. 43:09 Amen. 43:11 And so when we engage in mission, 43:12 mission is not just a struggle of ideas. 43:15 It is a power encounter and it's a truth encounter. 43:18 It is the truth about who God is 43:20 compared with the lies that Satan has told. 43:22 And as a missionary the question is 43:24 does the power of the Living God 43:26 flow through you? 43:27 Can people be delivered from their, 43:29 whatever local situation they're in, 43:31 whether it be a life of despair, 43:33 whether it be overt spirit possession 43:36 or worship in a Voodoo country, 43:38 can they be delivered from the harassment 43:40 that they're experiencing? 43:42 And if Jesus indeed has all authority and power 43:44 and He can deliver, then He's worthy of worship. 43:46 Amen. 43:47 And so it's my privilege as a missionary 43:50 and as a pastor to be involved in this kind of ministry 43:53 on a regular basis. 43:55 It's not something I look for, it's not something I ask for, 43:58 it just kind of happens. 44:00 And the councils of the Apostle Paul 44:03 were like clear, would not to go looking for demons, 44:05 but on the other hand we're not to run from them, 44:08 and when we face these principalities of evil, 44:11 we have to stand fast, three times in Ephesians 6, 44:13 we have to stand firm and we have the shield of faith 44:17 in the breastplates of righteousness, 44:19 and the Word, the sword of the Spirit, 44:21 which is the Word of God 44:23 and that word is not the normal word, logos, 44:26 which is like the written word, is the word rhema. 44:28 Rhema. 44:30 Which means it's the spoken word 44:31 of Jesus Christ. 44:32 Amen. 44:34 And so when you speak the words of God into an encounter, 44:37 you are speaking the presence of God into that situation. 44:40 You can do it through singing, 44:42 you can do it through the reading of scripture 44:43 or reciting scripture, 44:45 and demons tremble when the presence of God 44:48 is invoked into the situation. 44:49 Glory to God. 44:50 And so whether you're serving among Hindus, 44:52 Buddhists or Muslims 44:53 or even post-moderns here in America, 44:55 wherever you go, 44:57 ultimately there is a great controversy, 45:00 there is a struggle between Jesus Christ and Satan 45:02 for the soul, 45:03 for the eternal destiny of those individuals. 45:06 And wherever we serve, we represent Jesus Christ, 45:10 and we minister in His authority 45:12 and in His name. 45:13 Oh, and I believe in the power of the rhema word. 45:15 I do want to ask this quick question, 45:18 and I just want you to repeat it 45:19 because I think you put your finger on it, 45:22 when we're going out, it's not just a truth encounter 45:26 when you're coming into a different religious culture, 45:29 it is a power encounter. 45:30 So if we can, we can have it all up here, 45:35 we can know the 2,300 days, you can know everything 45:38 but if you're not filled with the Holy Spirit, 45:41 if you don't have the power of God 45:45 accompanying your ministry, 45:47 then it becomes a moot point, 45:50 I mean, it's just you're out there 45:52 like clanging cymbals if you will, 45:55 you've got to have the love in the power of God. 45:58 Absolutely, we have to be motivated by God's love. 46:02 And we had a missionary 46:04 recently engaged in deliverance ministry 46:06 and this demon spoke to her from this young girl 46:08 and said, "This girl is mine, you cannot have her." 46:11 And she was about to ask the girl 46:13 if she would accept Jesus as Lord and Savior 46:14 and this demon spoke, 46:16 and the missionary has an advanced degree, 46:19 many years of experience, 46:21 and at that moment she realized that all her education, 46:24 her background meant absolutely nothing. 46:26 Absolutely. 46:27 And she said, the only thing I could do was 46:29 call in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ 46:31 and the demon was not afraid of me 46:33 and he was taunting me, 46:34 and I just called on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ 46:37 and that lady was delivered. 46:38 Amen. Amen. 46:40 And so when we minister, 46:41 we cannot minister on our own strength. 46:42 Amen. 46:44 We have to minister in the name 46:45 and under the authority of Jesus Christ. 46:47 And we have to minister with the motivation of Jesus 46:50 who came into this world not to condemn but to save. 46:51 Amen. 46:53 We have 12 pictures that we want to show 46:55 because you brought them along 46:56 and we can see some of this work that's going on 46:59 and then after that 47:00 we're going to give you an opportunity to, 47:03 will talk about your address 47:05 and how to get in touch with you. 47:06 So here are the ladies from, you explain. 47:10 We'll go through this quickly. 47:11 Yes, here we have some pictures of Muslims in West Africa. 47:13 Okay. 47:15 If we want to move to the next picture, 47:17 these communities in West Africa 47:19 they have come from many tribal groups, 47:21 they have many animistic practices. 47:23 This man here is sitting outside a fetish house. 47:26 So yes, he's a Muslim 47:28 but he's also directly involved in the worship of spirits. 47:30 Wow. 47:32 And he has fetishes, 47:33 oftentimes they look like the private parts of a man 47:37 and these fetishes are worshiped 47:39 and people live in fear of the spirits. 47:43 Here we have Muslims in a city in West Africa, 47:46 Muslim women, they tend to go around together. 47:49 They don't like to go around with men. 47:51 And they go around in large groups, 47:52 and here we have them returning from a social event. 47:56 And so the women stay together for safety among other reasons. 48:01 Here we have another Muslim religious gathering 48:03 and oftentimes in large crowds 48:06 the men and the women will separate out. 48:08 So the men are on one side of the field 48:10 and the women on the other side of the fields 48:11 and Pastor Michee was at one such event 48:14 early in his ministry, 48:15 and the crowd turned into a mob 48:18 and they attacked him because they said, 48:20 "What is this Christian doing here at a Muslim ceremony", 48:23 and he was driven away by the mob 48:25 and yet God sent His angels providentially 48:27 to protect him. 48:28 Amen. 48:29 And so, as we continue through these pictures, 48:32 here we have another Muslim family, 48:34 this is in the very west coast of Africa in a country 48:38 that includes the Sahara Desert. 48:40 And what we find with Muslims is on a one on basis, 48:43 they're very friendly, they're very open, 48:46 they're incurious, they're hospitable. 48:48 Here we have Muslims who are in a dialogue center. 48:51 They meet on a weekly basis to discuss concepts of truth 48:55 or righteousness, or forgiveness, 48:57 or family matters, 48:58 and they compare what the Bible teaches 49:00 with what the Quran teaches. 49:02 Amen. 49:03 And they find that the gospel really is a liberating force. 49:06 Here we have a gentleman from Mali. 49:09 He is a practicing Muslim. 49:11 He is one of the nomadic tribes from the north. 49:13 This part of the world is heavily infested with al-Qaeda 49:17 and where our missionaries serve. 49:18 Al-Qaeda is everywhere. 49:20 And so the missionaries serve 49:21 knowing that al Qaeda are all around them, 49:23 they know who the missionaries are, 49:25 and there is a threat to their life at all times. 49:29 Here we have a young boy, again in the Sahara Desert. 49:32 They have very little opportunities 49:34 and Islam provides a structure for life, 49:36 it governs every aspect of life 49:39 and when Muslims become Adventists or Christians, 49:44 they often hear about the freedom of the gospel, 49:46 but many Muslims come from a very high practice faith, 49:49 or as their faith informs every aspect to their life, 49:52 they expect their Christian faith 49:53 will also regulate every aspect of their life. 49:56 So as western Christians 49:57 we talk about the freedom of the gospel, 50:00 to a Muslim they say, 50:01 "Well, to be a follower of Jesus means 50:03 to obey His commandments in all areas of my life." 50:06 And so you find that many Muslims 50:07 who become Adventists are very observant 50:10 of what Jesus taught. 50:11 And really, it should be 50:13 because it's freedom in Christ Jesus, right? 50:15 Yes. 50:16 It is not freedom to follow your fallen desires. 50:17 That's exactly right. Freedom from sin. 50:19 Here we have a gentleman going through his prayers, 50:22 five times a day. 50:23 And in the first surah of the Quran, they say, 50:27 shows the right way, 50:29 and they pray that prayer seven times a day. 50:31 I think that's why the Holy Spirit 50:32 is showing up to us. 50:34 And when they say, "Show me the right way," 50:36 you realize that they're praying for God 50:38 to show them the right way. 50:39 Even while they're within Islam, 50:41 and that is an opportunity to say that Jesus is the way, 50:44 the truth, and the life 50:45 and no man cometh to the Father except through Him. 50:48 You know, I just want to put up some information 50:52 for Adventist Frontier Missions. 50:54 It is a 501c3 nonprofit organization, 50:57 and perhaps the Holy Spirit is stirring your heart 51:00 to support Adventist Frontier Mission 51:02 or maybe you are one of those 51:05 who God is tapping on the shoulder 51:07 and saying, "Yes, 51:09 I feel the call to become a missionary 51:13 for Adventists Frontier Mission, 51:15 and a missionary for Jesus Christ." 51:18 Here is how you can get in touch 51:20 with this wonderful group. 51:26 If you would like to learn 51:28 more about Adventist Frontier Missions, 51:30 you can do so by writing to 107 East Ferry Street, 51:35 Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103. 51:38 That's 107 East Ferry Street, Berrien Springs, 51:42 Michigan 49103. 51:44 You can call them at 269-473-4250. 51:49 That's 269-473-4250. 51:53 You can also find them online at afmonline.org. 51:58 That's afmonline.org. |
Revised 2017-06-05