I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome
again to 3ABN Today program.
00:01:07.63\00:01:11.10
We are so glad that
you take this time out
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to join us each and every day,
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and this is
going to be a program
00:01:15.74\00:01:18.84
that is very special.
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It's something that
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we're going to be
focusing on something
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that needs our
attention as Christians,
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and I believe that
this is God's timing
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for this program.
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Before I introduce
our special guests,
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I want to share a
scripture with you
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and this scripture is
one of the most important
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that Paul wrote, I believe,
and he is writing to Timothy,
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in 1 Timothy 2,
he is telling him,
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"We need to
pray for all people,"
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and then he says in verse 3,
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"For this is good and acceptable
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in the side of God, our Savior,
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who desires all men, all
of humanity to be saved,"
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and this is something,
and then he goes on to say,
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"Not only to be saved, to come
to the knowledge of the truth,
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for there is one
God and one mediator
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between God and man,
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the man, Christ Jesus.
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It is so
important for us to realize
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that we cannot compartmentalize
our belief in Jesus Christ
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and separate ourselves
from other people groups.
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You know, sometimes it's
like we're good Christians
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when we're with
other Christians,
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but God wants us to
reach out to all men,
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whether they are Hindu or Muslim
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or whatever their religion is,
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and today we have two
very special guests with us
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and let me
introduce our special guests.
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We have Dr. Conrad Vine,
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who is the president of
Adventists Frontier Missions.
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We're so glad that
you're here with us today.
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It's a joy to be
here, Shelley, with you.
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Yes, and we love that
British accent of yours,
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and then we have
Pastor Michee Bade
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and you are a frontline worker
for Adventist Frontier Mission.
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Exactly.
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We praise God for his
special hedge of protection
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around you and your
wife and your two children,
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because on the frontline
you are put in very critical
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and dangerous
positions at times.
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Today, we are
going to be talking about
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the Adventist Frontier
Mission work to the Muslims,
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and there are 1.3
to 1.4 billion Muslims
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on earth today.
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God is not going to
send His Son, Jesus Christ,
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back for us until we've
reached this people group,
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and it is so exciting to see
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how the Holy Spirit is
working with individual Muslims
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to give them dreams and visions,
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to introduce
them to Jesus Christ
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as the Son of God,
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but how we are so thankful
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for the work Adventist
Frontier Missions is doing,
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because this is putting flesh
on the message of Jesus Christ
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and they're out there
reaching these precious people
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who are becoming very devout
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Seventh-day
Adventist Christians.
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Before we get into
the heart of the story,
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we have someone very
special with us today
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who is going to bring
a message for us in song.
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This is one of my favorite
people, T. Marshall Kelly,
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and he is going to be singing,
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"The Unveiled Christ".
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Once our blessed Christ
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Of beauty
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Was veiled off from human view
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But through suffering, death,
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And sorrow
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He has rent the veil in two
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O behold
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The Man of Sorrows!
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O behold Him in plain view!
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Lo!
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He is
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The mighty conqueror
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Since He rent
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The veil in two
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Lo!
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He is the mighty conqueror
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Since He rent the veil in two
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Yes, He is with God,
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The Father
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Interceding there for you
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For He is the well beloved
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Since He rent the veil in two
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Holy angels
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Bow before Him
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Men of earth give praises due
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For He is the mighty conqueror
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Since He rent that veil in two
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O behold The Man of Sorrows!
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O behold Him
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In plain view
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Lo!
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He is the mighty conqueror
00:07:40.89\00:07:47.86
Since He rent that veil in two
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Lo! He is
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The mighty conqueror
00:08:00.88\00:08:08.02
Since He rent
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The veil
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In two
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That is one of my special,
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most beloved
brothers in Jesus Christ.
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He is someone
who is truly special
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and his relationship
with the Lord is so intimate,
00:08:44.09\00:08:46.69
it's precious, so we
appreciate T. Marshall Kelly
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singing for us.
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Well, if you're joining
us just a few minutes late,
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we've got a barn burner.
00:08:53.23\00:08:56.30
Today, we're going to be
talking with Dr. Conrad Vine
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and excuse me Pastor Michee Bade
00:09:00.74\00:09:04.37
who are with Adventists Frontier
00:09:04.41\00:09:06.71
Missions, and once again,
00:09:06.74\00:09:08.58
thank you for coming
00:09:08.61\00:09:10.08
and thank you that
we're going to be talking
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about a topic as large as this,
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"The work with
the Muslim people,"
00:09:16.82\00:09:18.55
but before we get into it,
00:09:18.59\00:09:20.22
we would like to
just get to know the man
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just a little bit better.
00:09:22.16\00:09:23.79
Dr. Conrad Vine, you've
told me to call you Conrad,
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give us a little of who you are,
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just a brief little nutshell?
00:09:29.73\00:09:32.77
Well, Shelley, I was
born in the United Kingdom.
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My father was a pastor,
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and my parents
were a pastoral team
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in the northern
industrial cities.
00:09:40.11\00:09:41.71
I gave my life to Jesus
Christ at the age of 13.
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I went to a camp meeting,
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I heard a preacher
speaking about Hosea and Gomer
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and God's love
the wayward children.
00:09:48.42\00:09:50.89
And I went to the
front of the altar call,
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and that was the
best decision of my life.
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And since then, I've
served with ADRA for many years
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in Central Asia
and pastored in the UK,
00:09:58.03\00:10:01.23
and here in North America,
and for the last five years,
00:10:01.26\00:10:04.73
I've been serving with
Adventist Frontier Missions
00:10:04.77\00:10:06.94
in Berrien Springs, Michigan.
00:10:06.97\00:10:09.20
I met my wife in
the former Soviet Union.
00:10:09.24\00:10:11.84
She was raised a communist
and I was raised an Adventist,
00:10:11.87\00:10:15.91
I went to Pathfinders,
she went to the Pioneers.
00:10:15.94\00:10:18.71
And I never imagined
just growing up in the 1980s
00:10:18.75\00:10:21.28
that my wife was
on the other side
00:10:21.32\00:10:22.65
of the Iron Curtain,
00:10:22.68\00:10:24.02
but God works
in mysterious ways,
00:10:24.05\00:10:25.52
so when communism collapsed,
Adventist missionaries,
00:10:25.55\00:10:29.46
lay preachers, lay evangelists
00:10:29.49\00:10:30.86
went all across the
former Soviet Union.
00:10:30.89\00:10:33.03
My wife went to one of
those evangelistic series
00:10:33.06\00:10:35.16
and gave her
life to Jesus Christ
00:10:35.20\00:10:37.20
and about five years ago,
00:10:37.23\00:10:38.57
her parents
followed that decision
00:10:38.60\00:10:39.93
and they gave their
lives to Jesus Christ as well.
00:10:39.97\00:10:41.84
Praise God.
00:10:41.87\00:10:43.20
So you are a PK,
a preacher's kid,
00:10:43.24\00:10:46.34
who has really made that
intimate personal connection
00:10:46.37\00:10:50.71
not relying on your father
00:10:50.75\00:10:52.51
or your parents'
religious beliefs,
00:10:52.55\00:10:55.08
but you really
connected with the Lord,
00:10:55.12\00:10:56.82
and did you ever wander away,
00:10:56.85\00:10:59.15
or just was once
you found the path,
00:10:59.19\00:11:02.26
did you stick to that path?
00:11:02.29\00:11:04.16
No, I stuck to
the path. Praise God.
00:11:04.19\00:11:06.29
When I was 17,
00:11:06.33\00:11:08.16
I took a year out
after high school,
00:11:08.20\00:11:10.33
I went to the
Middle East to work,
00:11:10.37\00:11:12.37
and on the day I was flying out,
00:11:12.40\00:11:13.94
I was reading
through the Bible actually,
00:11:13.97\00:11:15.47
and I came to Joshua
1, the first nine verses,
00:11:15.50\00:11:18.97
where God said to Joshua that
00:11:19.01\00:11:20.38
if you meditate on
my law night and day
00:11:20.41\00:11:23.24
and do not depart from it,
it's the right or to the left,
00:11:23.28\00:11:25.25
I'll be with
you wherever you go,
00:11:25.28\00:11:26.92
you'll be
successful wherever you go,
00:11:26.95\00:11:28.28
and so do not be afraid.
00:11:28.32\00:11:29.85
And God was making
a personal covenant
00:11:29.88\00:11:31.22
with me then and
00:11:31.25\00:11:32.59
I've stuck with that
covenant every day of my life.
00:11:32.62\00:11:34.26
Glory to God, what a testimony.
00:11:34.29\00:11:36.49
I love that,
00:11:36.52\00:11:37.86
and then Pastor
Michee Bade, tell us,
00:11:37.89\00:11:40.86
did you grew up
in a Christian home?
00:11:40.90\00:11:43.37
Well, yes, I was born
in a Christian family,
00:11:43.40\00:11:48.70
my father and my mother together
00:11:48.74\00:11:51.81
run an evangelical church
in Ivory Coast, Cote d'Ivoire,
00:11:51.84\00:11:56.41
that's West Africa and,
00:11:56.44\00:11:58.81
but I had my
grandfather and my grandmother
00:11:58.85\00:12:03.85
from my mother's
side were Muslims,
00:12:03.89\00:12:07.49
and when I had time,
00:12:07.52\00:12:09.82
I will spend time
with them on the mat,
00:12:09.86\00:12:13.13
try to imitate the
way they were praying,
00:12:13.16\00:12:16.26
but very early
my parents took us
00:12:16.30\00:12:20.04
to some Adventist schools,
00:12:20.07\00:12:22.54
because my dad was
working for the government,
00:12:22.57\00:12:24.94
so when I was
nine-years-old, my dad said,
00:12:24.97\00:12:28.71
he has been reading
some books from the church
00:12:28.74\00:12:31.11
that are very meaningful,
that are very convincing,
00:12:31.15\00:12:34.95
that are biblically sound,
00:12:34.98\00:12:37.09
that he would like us
to attend that school.
00:12:37.12\00:12:39.35
The Adventist... these
are Adventist books then, huh?
00:12:39.39\00:12:42.12
Yeah, Adventist
books that a butcher
00:12:42.16\00:12:44.83
brought to his office.
00:12:44.86\00:12:46.70
So we were sent
to Adventist school
00:12:46.73\00:12:50.27
to finish our primary education,
00:12:50.30\00:12:52.70
and that was my first exposure
with the Adventist message,
00:12:52.73\00:12:57.77
but, because my father was
working for the government,
00:12:57.81\00:13:00.18
so we had to move very often.
00:13:00.21\00:13:02.28
So from my secondary education,
00:13:02.31\00:13:04.55
we moved with
our parents to a town
00:13:04.58\00:13:06.88
where there was
no Adventist school.
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.55
So we went back
to public schools,
00:13:08.58\00:13:10.29
and that was when I
had contact with Adventism
00:13:10.32\00:13:14.29
until when I was 19.
00:13:14.32\00:13:17.89
There was an Adventist minister
00:13:17.93\00:13:19.53
that had three weeks'
series on the Revelation.
00:13:19.56\00:13:23.10
Yes.
00:13:23.13\00:13:24.47
So it was during holidays,
00:13:24.50\00:13:25.93
and I said, "Oh,
I know this church,"
00:13:25.97\00:13:27.50
and I decided to
attend the series,
00:13:27.54\00:13:29.97
that's where
God called me again,
00:13:30.01\00:13:32.24
and I decided to get baptized.
00:13:32.27\00:13:35.28
So I was the first in my family
to join the Adventist Church,
00:13:35.31\00:13:39.41
but God affected me in
a way that my life changed
00:13:39.45\00:13:45.15
and my parents were so impressed
00:13:45.19\00:13:46.59
with the new life I had,
00:13:46.62\00:13:48.79
that my dad decided to join
the church four years later,
00:13:48.82\00:13:52.29
and I was blessed
when I was pastoring
00:13:52.33\00:13:56.67
in my last mission
field to baptize my mother.
00:13:56.70\00:14:01.24
So... Precious.
00:14:01.27\00:14:03.00
She didn't want to
join the Adventist church
00:14:03.04\00:14:05.74
because she didn't
want to be restricted
00:14:05.77\00:14:08.34
on diet, on this and that,
00:14:08.38\00:14:11.05
but after she saw
00:14:11.08\00:14:13.25
how God has used me in
my last mission experience
00:14:13.28\00:14:17.72
when she came to visit,
00:14:17.75\00:14:19.52
the Holy Spirit touched at heart
00:14:19.55\00:14:20.89
and she said, "My
son, you know what?
00:14:20.92\00:14:22.49
I think I've resisted too long
00:14:22.52\00:14:24.03
to the voice of the Holy Spirit.
00:14:24.06\00:14:25.83
What I've seen you're
doing is enough for me
00:14:25.86\00:14:28.30
to see that God has called you
00:14:28.33\00:14:31.03
to be used in this
ministry, in this church,
00:14:31.07\00:14:35.80
and I think God
is also calling me
00:14:35.84\00:14:37.37
to join this
ministry and this church
00:14:37.41\00:14:40.74
at least to share your
faith and pray for you,
00:14:40.78\00:14:44.15
and we are
supporting your ministry."
00:14:44.18\00:14:46.08
Glory to God.
00:14:46.11\00:14:47.45
Now, what about your
maternal grandparents
00:14:47.48\00:14:49.02
who are Muslim?
00:14:49.05\00:14:50.39
Did they ever convert?
00:14:50.42\00:14:52.02
Well, my grandfather died
00:14:52.05\00:14:53.89
before he was
exposed to Christianity,
00:14:53.92\00:14:57.33
but I was happy
00:14:57.36\00:14:58.69
when I saw my
grandmother in the late years
00:14:58.73\00:15:01.60
when she came to stay with us.
00:15:01.63\00:15:04.97
She said that she
wanted also to try
00:15:05.00\00:15:07.90
the Christian prayer style,
00:15:07.94\00:15:10.07
and we were
surprised when she told us,
00:15:10.11\00:15:13.71
"It makes more sense,
00:15:13.74\00:15:15.21
I feel more happy the way
I pray like you Christians.
00:15:15.24\00:15:19.95
So she gave her life
to Christ and got baptized
00:15:19.98\00:15:23.69
before she died.
00:15:23.72\00:15:25.05
Praise God, praise God.
00:15:25.09\00:15:26.62
All right, Conrad,
00:15:26.65\00:15:27.99
tell us a little about
Adventists Frontier Missions.
00:15:28.02\00:15:31.16
It is such a great work.
00:15:31.19\00:15:33.40
Well, thank you,
we started in 1985,
00:15:33.43\00:15:36.77
some students,
Andrews University,
00:15:36.80\00:15:39.03
led by Clyde Morgan,
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.14
they felt a burden
to become missionaries
00:15:41.17\00:15:43.71
to the unreached
peoples of the world.
00:15:43.74\00:15:45.94
And there are about 16,000
00:15:45.97\00:15:48.08
people groups in the world today
00:15:48.11\00:15:49.88
and even today
there are over 8,000
00:15:49.91\00:15:52.18
unreached people groups
00:15:52.21\00:15:53.55
who have never heard the gospel,
00:15:53.58\00:15:54.92
almost 40% of the
world's population,
00:15:54.95\00:15:57.42
and that percentage
is growing year by year.
00:15:57.45\00:16:00.19
And so they counseled
00:16:00.22\00:16:02.16
with faculty at
Andrews University
00:16:02.19\00:16:04.66
and God gave birth
00:16:04.69\00:16:06.70
to a new mission
agency called AFM,
00:16:06.73\00:16:09.06
and the first missionaries
launched the Scalzis
00:16:09.10\00:16:11.60
to the Ifugao people in
the Philippines in 1987,
00:16:11.63\00:16:17.11
and six years later, they
planted thriving churches,
00:16:17.14\00:16:20.41
and they handed the work back
00:16:20.44\00:16:21.78
to the local
Adventist conference
00:16:21.81\00:16:23.88
and they returned home,
00:16:23.91\00:16:25.25
and that work
has grown and grown
00:16:25.28\00:16:27.08
and since then we've grown
00:16:27.12\00:16:28.45
to be working in
about 20 countries
00:16:28.48\00:16:30.05
around the world.
00:16:30.09\00:16:31.85
We only work when the church
asks us to send missionaries.
00:16:31.89\00:16:35.49
We're supporting ministry,
00:16:35.52\00:16:37.03
and we are inundated with
requests for missionaries,
00:16:37.06\00:16:39.79
we simply cannot
find enough people
00:16:39.83\00:16:41.33
to serve as missionaries.
00:16:41.36\00:16:43.50
In the last four years,
00:16:43.53\00:16:44.87
we've opened an office in
South Africa and in Brazil,
00:16:44.90\00:16:47.44
and we are now recruiting
00:16:47.47\00:16:48.90
and financing and
hiring missionaries
00:16:48.94\00:16:51.37
from South Africa
and from Latin America,
00:16:51.41\00:16:54.38
and those young people
are now starting to enter
00:16:54.41\00:16:57.18
the 10/40 Mission Window,
00:16:57.21\00:16:58.88
which is where
most of the world's
00:16:58.91\00:17:00.35
Hindus, Muslims,
and Buddhists live.
00:17:00.38\00:17:02.72
Amen, and you know, the thing
that I appreciate every time
00:17:02.75\00:17:05.05
I speak with someone
00:17:05.09\00:17:06.89
from Adventist
Frontier Missions,
00:17:06.92\00:17:09.16
what I appreciate is
that when you go into an area,
00:17:09.19\00:17:13.53
you don't go in just saying,
"We've got all the knowledge.
00:17:13.56\00:17:16.77
You really work
with the local people
00:17:16.80\00:17:18.53
and the local cultures?
00:17:18.57\00:17:20.07
So this is
something that I guess
00:17:20.10\00:17:22.47
that's just woven into
the fabric of your being.
00:17:22.50\00:17:25.94
Sure, we expect every missionary
00:17:25.97\00:17:27.41
to learn the local language
to a high level of proficiency.
00:17:27.44\00:17:30.65
Some missionaries, for instance,
00:17:30.68\00:17:32.25
in West Africa
have to learn French,
00:17:32.28\00:17:34.45
plus a tribal language
such as Susu or Manding,
00:17:34.48\00:17:37.05
or Fulani or Malinke,
00:17:37.09\00:17:39.12
and then they
do a culture study.
00:17:39.15\00:17:41.19
We want to identify
00:17:41.22\00:17:42.59
what are the redemptive
bridges in this culture
00:17:42.62\00:17:45.06
along which the gospel can go.
00:17:45.09\00:17:46.90
Oftentimes, we
present the questions
00:17:46.93\00:17:49.03
to the Western heart,
00:17:49.06\00:17:50.40
but people in Southeast Asia
00:17:50.43\00:17:52.27
have different
questions on their hearts.
00:17:52.30\00:17:54.30
And we need to identify
00:17:54.34\00:17:55.67
what questions do
these people have,
00:17:55.70\00:17:57.47
so we know how
to share the gospel,
00:17:57.51\00:17:58.97
the good news of Jesus in a
way that's meaningful for them.
00:17:59.01\00:18:02.11
Amen. Amen.
00:18:02.14\00:18:03.48
So what...
00:18:03.51\00:18:06.31
Give us some examples
00:18:06.35\00:18:07.68
then when you were
looking at the Muslim world
00:18:07.72\00:18:09.92
particularly in Africa.
00:18:09.95\00:18:13.22
Tell us how the Holy
Spirit is influencing that work?
00:18:13.25\00:18:17.79
Well, since the year 2000,
00:18:17.83\00:18:19.59
Jesus has been
appearing to Muslims
00:18:19.63\00:18:21.53
all around the world
in dreams and visions.
00:18:21.56\00:18:23.26
It's a global phenomenon,
00:18:23.30\00:18:25.20
and He's inviting
Muslims to follow Him.
00:18:25.23\00:18:27.80
And if Jesus is reaching out
00:18:27.84\00:18:29.17
to Muslims in
dreams and visions,
00:18:29.20\00:18:31.57
then we as the
followers of Jesus
00:18:31.61\00:18:33.38
must partner with
Jesus in His mission.
00:18:33.41\00:18:36.18
And just recently we
had missionaries in Guinea,
00:18:36.21\00:18:40.15
which is a Muslim
country in West Africa,
00:18:40.18\00:18:43.12
and they went to the second
largest city of that country,
00:18:43.15\00:18:46.55
and there was no Adventist's
presence in that city.
00:18:46.59\00:18:49.82
And when they arrived there,
00:18:49.86\00:18:51.29
our missionaries
they pray and fast,
00:18:51.33\00:18:52.99
and they say, "God, lead
us to a person of peace."
00:18:53.03\00:18:56.00
As Jesus talked about
00:18:56.03\00:18:57.37
in the Gospel of
Matthew and Luke,
00:18:57.40\00:18:59.00
"Lead us to someone who is
open to receive the gospel,
00:18:59.03\00:19:02.17
and they pray and fast
until God makes that connection,
00:19:02.20\00:19:05.21
and these
particular missionaries,
00:19:05.24\00:19:06.78
they arrived in the
city and they met a man
00:19:06.81\00:19:09.18
who was an Imam a
Muslim religious leader
00:19:09.21\00:19:12.81
and he said, "I've
been watching Hope TV
00:19:12.85\00:19:15.65
from Abidjan in Cote
d'Ivoire, Ivory Coast,
00:19:15.68\00:19:18.35
and they are talking
about the prophecies of Daniel,
00:19:18.39\00:19:20.26
and I can't find
anybody to explain
00:19:20.29\00:19:22.42
the prophecies of Daniel
to me, could you do this?
00:19:22.46\00:19:25.39
So our missionaries shared
the Gospel of Jesus Christ
00:19:25.43\00:19:28.06
and the prophecies of
Jesus in the Book of Daniel.
00:19:28.10\00:19:30.67
That man was baptized.
00:19:30.70\00:19:32.03
He now leads the
first ever Adventist Church
00:19:32.07\00:19:34.30
in that large city of Guinea.
00:19:34.34\00:19:36.37
And that church is comprised
all of Muslims, ex-Muslims
00:19:36.40\00:19:39.51
who have been baptized into
Seventh-day Adventist faith.
00:19:39.54\00:19:42.08
And you know, this is
happening over and over,
00:19:42.11\00:19:44.01
we had a gentleman here
00:19:44.05\00:19:45.88
who is a professor at
one of our universities.
00:19:45.91\00:19:47.78
I won't give his name,
00:19:47.82\00:19:49.15
but he was speaking and
had a Muslim approach him
00:19:49.18\00:19:53.19
and he said,
00:19:53.22\00:19:54.89
I've got a group of men
who want to talk to you.
00:19:54.92\00:19:57.46
And there were six Imams
00:19:57.49\00:19:59.36
and he said that when
he walked into the room
00:19:59.39\00:20:01.96
they had 3ABN on and so he said,
00:20:02.00\00:20:04.20
because he was a
little nervous at first,
00:20:04.23\00:20:06.10
but they walked in the room
00:20:06.13\00:20:07.74
and 3ABN was on
00:20:07.77\00:20:09.20
and they had
questions and likewise,
00:20:09.24\00:20:12.37
so, we're seeing
God with peasants,
00:20:12.41\00:20:16.31
with professors, with Imams,
00:20:16.34\00:20:19.51
God is reaching out to
this people and you know,
00:20:19.55\00:20:22.05
this is something I always say,
00:20:22.08\00:20:24.35
you know, people would say,
00:20:24.39\00:20:25.72
God can't finish
the work without us,
00:20:25.75\00:20:27.22
but we can't finish
the work without God.
00:20:27.26\00:20:29.56
He is the one who
is opening the doors,
00:20:29.59\00:20:31.99
but then, he needs the flesh
and bone people to go in there.
00:20:32.03\00:20:36.80
How did you
become, Pastor Michee,
00:20:36.83\00:20:39.67
how did you become involved
00:20:39.70\00:20:42.17
with Adventist
Frontier Missions?
00:20:42.20\00:20:44.57
Thank you.
00:20:44.61\00:20:46.14
I worked for almost seven years
00:20:46.17\00:20:49.31
as associate
district pastor in my country,
00:20:49.34\00:20:52.31
Ivory Coast, in the
capital city of Abidjan,
00:20:52.35\00:20:55.85
and I had a call
to go to Burkina Faso,
00:20:55.88\00:20:58.99
that's a neighboring
country in Ivory Coast.
00:20:59.02\00:21:02.86
It was then there,
that I had to travel
00:21:02.89\00:21:07.23
with Late Kurten Glob,
00:21:07.26\00:21:12.07
he had a
project in Burkina Faso.
00:21:12.10\00:21:15.50
So, it was during
those trips that we discussed
00:21:15.54\00:21:20.31
and he told me
about what AFM does,
00:21:20.34\00:21:24.11
their unique
approach to mission,
00:21:24.15\00:21:27.32
to study the culture,
00:21:27.35\00:21:29.02
and to see what they
can get from the culture
00:21:29.05\00:21:33.79
and design a
strategy to reach out,
00:21:33.82\00:21:36.79
and I felt very interested,
00:21:36.83\00:21:38.23
because I was then
00:21:38.26\00:21:39.59
the evangelist of
the Burkina Faso mission,
00:21:39.63\00:21:44.00
also the
coordinator of global mission,
00:21:44.03\00:21:46.53
and I was in charge of Sabbath
School and Personal Ministry,
00:21:46.57\00:21:50.77
but I didn't see
that we were taking time
00:21:50.81\00:21:54.51
to study the
culture of the people,
00:21:54.54\00:21:56.78
who we were
sending our lay people to,
00:21:56.81\00:21:59.15
and I felt that, that
approach will maybe interest me,
00:21:59.18\00:22:04.75
and he told me
after three days together,
00:22:04.79\00:22:09.26
that the way I
was asking questions
00:22:09.29\00:22:11.69
and processing the
information was giving me,
00:22:11.73\00:22:14.30
I could be a good prospect
for Adventist Frontier Missions.
00:22:14.33\00:22:17.60
So when he returned
back in US in northeast,
00:22:17.63\00:22:21.37
he mentioned my
name to the office,
00:22:21.40\00:22:24.04
and it was a long
process that had like 12 steps
00:22:24.07\00:22:29.28
and it was a big
challenge for us,
00:22:29.31\00:22:32.51
because then there were no...
00:22:32.55\00:22:35.38
African from
West Africa or may be,
00:22:38.89\00:22:42.46
south of the Sahara
that have joined AFM
00:22:42.49\00:22:44.49
because we were
required to raise almost $10,000
00:22:44.53\00:22:50.07
to go for orientation in US.
00:22:50.10\00:22:52.33
So he said, the
big problem will be
00:22:52.37\00:22:55.07
to raise that
amount here in Africa,
00:22:55.10\00:22:57.14
which was next to a miracle.
00:22:57.17\00:22:59.01
So my wife and I,
we prayed about it,
00:22:59.04\00:23:00.91
we fasted almost seven days
00:23:00.94\00:23:03.38
and when I decided to inform
my union and my confidants,
00:23:03.41\00:23:09.32
they were not happy about it.
00:23:09.35\00:23:11.29
They had planned for me
00:23:11.32\00:23:13.89
at the local
mission a local conference
00:23:13.92\00:23:17.13
and so, that was a big barrier
00:23:17.16\00:23:19.89
because I couldn't talk
about my plan to my colleagues
00:23:19.93\00:23:23.00
and to the
churches I was pastoring.
00:23:23.03\00:23:25.60
So we prayed and we said, God,
00:23:25.63\00:23:27.80
if you want us to
begin this experience
00:23:27.84\00:23:30.77
this, to be in this
ministry, make that miracle.
00:23:30.81\00:23:36.11
And we were surprised
00:23:36.14\00:23:37.85
when some friends from
England, and from Portugal,
00:23:37.88\00:23:42.75
that were working for ADRA took
00:23:42.78\00:23:46.52
the little brochure we prepared
00:23:46.55\00:23:48.22
about what God
was calling us to do
00:23:48.26\00:23:50.83
and what we needed to do
make that call a reality,
00:23:50.86\00:23:55.26
that took that to
Portugal and England,
00:23:55.30\00:23:59.57
and a businessman was
touched, some years before,
00:23:59.60\00:24:04.74
to put some money aside
for a special mission project.
00:24:04.77\00:24:08.44
So when he was
introduced to our call
00:24:08.48\00:24:11.95
and what God wanted us to do,
00:24:11.98\00:24:14.02
and the challenge for us
to answer that call, he said,
00:24:14.05\00:24:17.65
"Maybe these are the people
00:24:17.69\00:24:19.02
God asked me to
put money aside for."
00:24:19.05\00:24:20.82
Praise God.
00:24:20.86\00:24:22.19
Instead of
$10,000, he donated $30,000.
00:24:22.22\00:24:26.43
Oh. Praise God.
00:24:26.46\00:24:27.80
So, that's how we
were able to go for
00:24:27.83\00:24:29.66
our orientation
in Berrien Springs,
00:24:29.70\00:24:33.00
and in the last
step of our process,
00:24:33.03\00:24:35.77
and that was in 2005.
00:24:35.80\00:24:38.47
And you know, I just
have to say that, praise God,
00:24:38.51\00:24:40.68
that He gave you
a very godly wife.
00:24:40.71\00:24:43.08
Amen.
00:24:43.11\00:24:44.45
And gave her the
courage, because I know,
00:24:44.48\00:24:46.72
you have two children,
00:24:46.75\00:24:48.08
and to move from a
relatively peaceful situation
00:24:48.12\00:24:53.79
into a situation like this,
00:24:53.82\00:24:55.26
we're going to talk
about some of the experiences
00:24:55.29\00:24:57.36
he's had in just a
moment, but how many...
00:24:57.39\00:25:00.23
how many pastors do you now have
00:25:00.26\00:25:03.57
who are reaching out?
00:25:03.60\00:25:04.93
How many missionaries are
reaching out to the Muslims?
00:25:04.97\00:25:08.34
Well, around the world with AFM,
00:25:08.37\00:25:10.01
we have about 15 to 20
projects in different countries
00:25:10.04\00:25:14.64
working with Muslim groups.
00:25:14.68\00:25:17.11
How many do you need?
00:25:17.15\00:25:19.28
We need thousands. Okay.
00:25:19.31\00:25:21.78
The work among the Muslims
00:25:21.82\00:25:23.59
is maybe the greatest story
00:25:23.62\00:25:24.95
of the 21st century
in terms of missions,
00:25:24.99\00:25:27.86
and the Holy
Spirit is going before,
00:25:27.89\00:25:30.59
there's just a lack of
people willing to step forward
00:25:30.63\00:25:32.69
and say, "Hey, I'm
here, my Lord, sent me."
00:25:32.73\00:25:35.36
And yet wherever
our missionaries go,
00:25:35.40\00:25:36.90
they find that the Holy Spirit
is already preparing hearts,
00:25:36.93\00:25:39.97
and people
across the Muslim world
00:25:40.00\00:25:42.00
are waiting for
a living Christian
00:25:42.04\00:25:44.04
to come and meet with them
00:25:44.07\00:25:45.51
and to say this is what it means
00:25:45.54\00:25:46.88
to follow Jesus Christ and so,
00:25:46.91\00:25:50.48
we are always looking for people
00:25:50.51\00:25:52.25
who sense a call in
their heart to serve
00:25:52.28\00:25:54.58
among the Muslim
peoples of the world.
00:25:54.62\00:25:56.45
Now, Conrad, Muslims
00:25:56.48\00:26:00.36
believe in Jesus
Christ as a prophet
00:26:00.39\00:26:03.59
but they do not believe,
00:26:03.63\00:26:04.96
the Quran does not present
the Christ as the Son of God.
00:26:04.99\00:26:11.70
I do believe they have
some belief in the spirit
00:26:11.73\00:26:14.20
but they think that Christians
worshipping a trinity,
00:26:14.24\00:26:19.51
that's like we are
worshipping multiple gods,
00:26:19.54\00:26:21.58
they don't
understand the idea of a Godhead
00:26:21.61\00:26:24.81
who is three in one.
00:26:24.85\00:26:27.22
Tell us some of
the common ground,
00:26:27.25\00:26:28.62
what are some of
the starting points,
00:26:28.65\00:26:30.42
and what are some
of the challenges?
00:26:30.45\00:26:32.62
Well, like Muslims,
00:26:32.65\00:26:34.52
we believe in the soon
return of Jesus Christ.
00:26:34.56\00:26:37.13
And they do as well. That
surprises a lot of people.
00:26:37.16\00:26:40.70
They believe that He
had a miraculous beginning
00:26:40.73\00:26:42.86
and they believe that
He is in heaven above today
00:26:42.90\00:26:45.20
and that He is coming again.
00:26:45.23\00:26:46.84
They believe in
the final judgment.
00:26:46.87\00:26:49.24
Muslims believe that we
should not drink alcohol,
00:26:49.27\00:26:53.24
that we should
live humble lives,
00:26:53.27\00:26:55.38
pious lives before God,
00:26:55.41\00:26:57.35
and that we should
avoid unclean meats.
00:26:57.38\00:27:00.12
And so there are many
common areas with Muslims.
00:27:00.15\00:27:03.12
And you are right,
00:27:03.15\00:27:04.49
many Muslims think
that Christianity is,
00:27:04.52\00:27:07.16
they associate
it with immorality
00:27:07.19\00:27:09.52
with alcohol and with pork,
00:27:09.56\00:27:11.53
and when we share the good news,
00:27:11.56\00:27:12.89
we say that God
has an end time people
00:27:12.93\00:27:16.16
who are waiting for
the coming of Jesus.
00:27:16.20\00:27:18.33
And God is inviting people
from every religious background
00:27:18.37\00:27:21.27
from the Catholic background,
from the Hindu background,
00:27:21.30\00:27:24.11
from the secular background,
from the Muslim background
00:27:24.14\00:27:26.51
to join that end time movement
00:27:26.54\00:27:28.38
who are preparing
for and waiting for
00:27:28.41\00:27:30.55
the coming of the Lord
and Savior, Jesus Christ,
00:27:30.58\00:27:32.88
that end time movement is the
Seventh-day Adventist movement.
00:27:32.91\00:27:36.02
And so, when Muslims hear
00:27:36.05\00:27:37.55
that there is a
Seventh-day Adventist movement
00:27:37.59\00:27:40.09
and that we are distinct
from the rest of Christianity,
00:27:40.12\00:27:42.46
that we do not eat
pork, and drink alcohol,
00:27:42.49\00:27:44.86
and we avoid immorality
is very attractive to them
00:27:44.89\00:27:48.43
because they know that
in the whole of the Quran,
00:27:48.46\00:27:51.13
Jesus is the preeminent figure.
00:27:51.17\00:27:53.50
Now, you may say the
glass is half empty in the Quran
00:27:53.54\00:27:56.10
when it comes to
the divinity of Jesus
00:27:56.14\00:27:58.04
but they know that there is
something special about Jesus,
00:27:58.07\00:28:01.18
and so when they hear people
00:28:01.21\00:28:02.54
talking about
the coming of Jesus,
00:28:02.58\00:28:03.91
and what does it mean
00:28:03.95\00:28:05.28
to prepare for
the coming of Jesus,
00:28:05.31\00:28:06.82
and how we can live
godly and holy lives
00:28:06.85\00:28:08.95
as the Apostle Peter
said, as we wait for His coming,
00:28:08.98\00:28:12.82
and they hear that
one of the titles of Jesus
00:28:12.85\00:28:14.69
is the Prince of Peace,
00:28:14.72\00:28:16.69
to Muslims who
are living in a world
00:28:16.73\00:28:18.13
that is torn by violence
00:28:18.16\00:28:20.10
and the
overwhelming majority of victims
00:28:20.13\00:28:22.50
of Islamic
terrorisms are fellow Muslims,
00:28:22.53\00:28:24.90
it is not Christians.
00:28:24.93\00:28:26.43
So Muslims who are
living in the world
00:28:26.47\00:28:27.90
in a community torn by violence,
00:28:27.94\00:28:30.37
the truth that Jesus
is the Prince of Peace
00:28:30.41\00:28:33.21
is a beautiful message.
00:28:33.24\00:28:34.84
And so when missionaries
go into Muslim communities,
00:28:34.88\00:28:37.85
we are praying and
fasting for God to reveal upon
00:28:37.88\00:28:41.78
whose heart the Holy
Spirit has already been at work,
00:28:41.82\00:28:44.25
and wherever you go
in the Muslim world,
00:28:44.29\00:28:45.75
you always find people
who are open to the gospel.
00:28:45.79\00:28:48.86
But how difficult,
how would you explain...
00:28:48.89\00:28:51.09
let's just hit the pause button
on this on your experience.
00:28:51.13\00:28:54.96
How would you
explain Muslim theology?
00:28:55.00\00:29:00.04
Well, the Muslim world
is divided into many sects,
00:29:00.07\00:29:03.57
as many groups as
there are within Christendom,
00:29:03.61\00:29:06.37
but if there is one thing
00:29:06.41\00:29:07.74
Muslims around the
world can agree on,
00:29:07.78\00:29:09.31
it is that Jesus
Christ is not the Son of God.
00:29:09.34\00:29:11.61
Okay.
00:29:11.65\00:29:12.98
And so, when we
work with Muslims,
00:29:13.01\00:29:16.45
I view it in these terms
that if I work with a Catholic,
00:29:16.48\00:29:20.49
I recognize that
Catholic theology
00:29:20.52\00:29:23.39
is actually in
the place of Christ.
00:29:23.43\00:29:25.16
Displaces Christ.
00:29:25.19\00:29:26.53
And yet when I speak
with an individual Catholic,
00:29:26.56\00:29:29.23
I realize that the Holy Spirit
is at work in their hearts,
00:29:29.26\00:29:32.67
and the call to
come out of her my people
00:29:32.70\00:29:34.77
applies to that
individual and likewise,
00:29:34.80\00:29:37.77
when I share the
gospel with a Muslim,
00:29:37.81\00:29:40.14
I realize that Muslim theology
is also like Catholic theology,
00:29:40.18\00:29:44.35
opposed to the
saving role of Jesus Christ
00:29:44.38\00:29:48.38
and to the nature
of who Jesus really is.
00:29:48.42\00:29:50.75
And yet when I listen to
a Muslim tell their story
00:29:50.79\00:29:53.66
of their dreams
and their visions
00:29:53.69\00:29:55.66
and how Jesus
answers their prayers,
00:29:55.69\00:29:58.03
like with the Catholic,
00:29:58.06\00:29:59.39
I recognize that the Holy Spirit
00:29:59.43\00:30:01.16
is at work in
this person's life,
00:30:01.20\00:30:02.63
they may not know that just yet.
00:30:02.66\00:30:04.57
And so, it is our
role as missionaries
00:30:04.60\00:30:06.84
to affirm the actions
of God in people's lives
00:30:06.87\00:30:09.30
where we recognize it.
00:30:09.34\00:30:10.67
Amen.
00:30:10.71\00:30:12.04
And we distinguish
between the theology
00:30:12.07\00:30:13.68
and the people
within the system.
00:30:13.71\00:30:15.58
And while we reject
the theology of Islam
00:30:15.61\00:30:17.88
and we reject the
theology of Catholicism,
00:30:17.91\00:30:20.45
we recognize that the
call to come out of her
00:30:20.48\00:30:22.72
my people applies to
people in Catholicism,
00:30:22.75\00:30:25.52
unfold in Protestantism,
and within Islam as well,
00:30:25.55\00:30:28.69
and therefore
it is our privilege
00:30:28.72\00:30:30.23
to love them all as
Jesus Himself loved them.
00:30:30.26\00:30:32.86
Well said, my brother.
00:30:32.89\00:30:35.06
Now, Michee,
00:30:35.10\00:30:36.67
I know that to
Muslims the prayer life
00:30:36.70\00:30:40.80
is something
that is very critical.
00:30:40.84\00:30:43.84
What has your experience been
00:30:43.87\00:30:45.54
when you go into the
villages of the Muslims?
00:30:45.57\00:30:49.68
I was very happy when
God brought my wife to me
00:30:49.71\00:30:54.78
because she came from
an Adventist background,
00:30:54.82\00:31:01.49
pastor's wife,
00:31:01.52\00:31:03.66
and one thing that
prepared heart for the ministry,
00:31:03.69\00:31:08.76
we're thinking that her
father was a former Muslim.
00:31:08.80\00:31:12.10
Say that again,
her father was what?
00:31:12.13\00:31:13.77
A former
Muslim. A former Muslim.
00:31:13.80\00:31:15.94
Yeah. Wow.
00:31:15.97\00:31:17.31
My wife's dad and most of her
00:31:17.34\00:31:20.18
aunties and uncles
are mostly Muslims,
00:31:20.21\00:31:23.28
but he got converted and
he put emphasis very early
00:31:23.31\00:31:29.38
when he became an Adventist
00:31:29.42\00:31:30.82
and a Seventh-day
Adventist minister
00:31:30.85\00:31:32.75
he put emphasis
on a prayer life.
00:31:32.79\00:31:36.69
As a Adventist pastor
00:31:36.73\00:31:38.19
he is known in
our country and union
00:31:38.23\00:31:41.06
as one of the Adventist minister
00:31:41.10\00:31:42.80
that have a special
spiritual and prayer life.
00:31:42.83\00:31:45.60
Amen.
00:31:45.63\00:31:46.97
So, my wife and I,
when we met in 2002,
00:31:47.00\00:31:50.37
and we had this call.
00:31:50.41\00:31:52.74
Our first mission field
00:31:52.77\00:31:54.11
before we joined
AFM was among Muslim,
00:31:54.14\00:31:56.14
and so we had some idea
00:31:56.18\00:31:58.38
about how Muslim take
the prayer life seriously.
00:31:58.41\00:32:01.78
How they look
down on Christians.
00:32:01.82\00:32:04.35
By the way, my
wife name is Elmia.
00:32:04.39\00:32:07.89
How they look down on Christian
00:32:07.92\00:32:09.36
because they see
us going to church
00:32:09.39\00:32:11.69
only twice a week,
and sometimes once a week
00:32:11.73\00:32:15.26
when they go to the
mosque five times a day,
00:32:15.30\00:32:18.83
and in Muslim community
00:32:18.87\00:32:22.64
everything revolves
around that prayer life.
00:32:22.67\00:32:26.78
When you go to a shop
and it is time for prayer
00:32:26.81\00:32:30.05
and the muezzin
calls for prayer,
00:32:30.08\00:32:32.88
they will not serve you,
00:32:32.91\00:32:34.25
they'll say please wait,
it's time for me to pray.
00:32:34.28\00:32:37.02
And they will go for that
ten or five minutes prayer
00:32:37.05\00:32:39.59
before they come
back and serve you.
00:32:39.62\00:32:41.59
So when we got to the
country where we were working
00:32:41.62\00:32:47.40
and where people group
was 99.99 percent Muslim,
00:32:47.43\00:32:52.80
and we studied the culture,
00:32:52.83\00:32:54.74
we asked them some questions
00:32:54.77\00:32:56.94
among maybe five
important elements of a day,
00:32:56.97\00:33:00.98
which one would you put first?
00:33:01.01\00:33:02.64
Like having lunch,
having prayer time,
00:33:02.68\00:33:07.28
having maybe to
discuss family issues,
00:33:07.32\00:33:10.82
and all of them, almost
99 put prayer time first
00:33:10.85\00:33:15.16
and we said, "We need to
do something about this."
00:33:15.19\00:33:18.66
So as we were reading the Bible,
00:33:18.69\00:33:20.93
we used to pray
three times a day,
00:33:20.96\00:33:23.03
we pray in the morning,
00:33:23.06\00:33:24.40
we pray in the afternoon,
we pray in the evening,
00:33:24.43\00:33:27.07
but when we saw
that our Muslim friends
00:33:27.10\00:33:29.17
were not seeing
us really express
00:33:29.20\00:33:31.81
and develop a prayer life
00:33:31.84\00:33:33.48
that they will appreciate
and consider as spiritual life.
00:33:33.51\00:33:39.88
God drew our attention
00:33:39.91\00:33:41.45
to Psalm 119:164,
00:33:41.48\00:33:47.09
and we read that
the psalmist says
00:33:47.12\00:33:50.53
seven times a day
I praise the Lord.
00:33:50.56\00:33:53.43
So we were convinced
that this was an insight
00:33:53.46\00:33:56.53
we could use to really
also develop a prayer life
00:33:56.56\00:34:00.47
that would make sense
to our Muslim brothers,
00:34:00.50\00:34:02.90
so we divided the 24
hours of a day into seven
00:34:02.94\00:34:06.84
and we started
praying seven times a day.
00:34:06.88\00:34:09.24
And we would put clocks
and cell phones on alarms,
00:34:09.28\00:34:12.88
so that when every
three hours the time reaches,
00:34:12.91\00:34:16.75
we'll have a beep
00:34:16.79\00:34:18.12
and if we are
talking with a Muslim friend
00:34:18.15\00:34:20.12
that beep would tell
us this is time to pray
00:34:20.16\00:34:23.09
and we would tell
our Muslim friend,
00:34:23.12\00:34:24.46
please this is
time for us to pray too.
00:34:24.49\00:34:26.43
And when we began that,
00:34:26.46\00:34:28.06
our Muslim
friends took us seriously
00:34:28.10\00:34:30.90
and they wondered
00:34:30.93\00:34:32.40
how we came
about that prayer life
00:34:32.43\00:34:35.30
because they have never
seen that among Christians
00:34:35.34\00:34:37.81
and we told them it is
there in our holy scripture
00:34:37.84\00:34:41.21
and that was a big
step in our outreach
00:34:41.24\00:34:43.78
among our Muslim friends.
00:34:43.81\00:34:45.15
I would imagine so.
00:34:45.18\00:34:46.58
So, you know,
00:34:46.61\00:34:49.82
we need to use your
example to influence us as well.
00:34:49.85\00:34:54.99
I know that many people,
00:34:55.02\00:34:59.16
if there's any area
00:34:59.19\00:35:00.53
that everyone would
like to see improvement,
00:35:00.56\00:35:02.80
it is in their prayer life.
00:35:02.83\00:35:04.53
So you were reaching
out to these people...
00:35:04.57\00:35:09.54
Do the Muslims in
your area are they...
00:35:09.57\00:35:13.88
I mean, they are in Africa,
00:35:13.91\00:35:15.38
is there any blending
between the Muslim religion
00:35:15.41\00:35:19.15
and some of the
animistic religions,
00:35:19.18\00:35:22.08
do you see any blending there?
00:35:22.12\00:35:25.12
Yeah.
00:35:25.15\00:35:26.55
I, I did a Master
Degree in mythology
00:35:26.59\00:35:31.36
with emphasis in Islam.
00:35:31.39\00:35:33.93
And I'm doing
right now a doctor degree
00:35:33.96\00:35:36.53
also with emphasis in Islam.
00:35:36.56\00:35:38.97
And I have discovered
00:35:39.00\00:35:40.80
that not only on the
literature review side,
00:35:40.84\00:35:45.67
but in practice
00:35:45.71\00:35:48.34
a large majority
of Islam practice
00:35:48.38\00:35:50.85
is mixed with the
local cultural beliefs
00:35:50.88\00:35:54.02
that we call folk
Islam or folk religion.
00:35:54.05\00:35:56.99
So, for example, where I
worked for the last ten years,
00:35:57.02\00:36:02.22
the Voodoo influence
of that country of Benin,
00:36:02.26\00:36:05.89
it's everywhere.
00:36:05.93\00:36:07.26
Black magic, witchcraft...
00:36:07.30\00:36:09.56
So you're seeing
much demon possession?
00:36:09.60\00:36:12.07
Oh, yeah. Wow.
00:36:12.10\00:36:13.60
In ten years, we've had close
to 200 deliverance sessions.
00:36:13.64\00:36:16.91
Praise God.
00:36:16.94\00:36:18.27
You know, I just have to
say this for our audience.
00:36:18.31\00:36:21.48
I've had a couple of
experiences with that,
00:36:21.51\00:36:23.81
but when I was
speaking in Johannesburg
00:36:23.85\00:36:27.15
at the South
African camp meeting,
00:36:27.18\00:36:30.95
whatever it was called Sedaven.
00:36:30.99\00:36:33.96
We were asking because we
get a lot of phone calls here
00:36:33.99\00:36:37.09
in our pastoral department,
00:36:37.13\00:36:38.99
that people cannot find
00:36:39.03\00:36:41.26
many pastors in
the United States
00:36:41.30\00:36:43.90
who really even take
deliverance seriously
00:36:43.93\00:36:46.53
and we're getting
all kinds of calls
00:36:46.57\00:36:48.40
from people who are claiming
00:36:48.44\00:36:50.01
either they are
demon possessed or others.
00:36:50.04\00:36:53.17
And when we were there,
00:36:53.21\00:36:54.74
we asked our
South African brothers,
00:36:54.78\00:36:57.65
how seriously do you take
demon possession and exorcism?
00:36:57.68\00:37:03.05
And they were kind of
looking around at each other
00:37:03.08\00:37:05.12
with a slight smile
like she is so naive
00:37:05.15\00:37:09.29
and the conference
president said to me,
00:37:09.32\00:37:12.49
"I'll tell you how
seriously," he said,
00:37:12.53\00:37:14.33
"We fast and pray for three days
00:37:14.36\00:37:16.73
before we go out on
one of these calls."
00:37:16.77\00:37:19.03
So you have been involved
in about 200 deliverances.
00:37:19.07\00:37:23.77
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:23.81\00:37:25.97
Actually Islam was
introduced very early
00:37:26.01\00:37:30.28
among that people
group some historians says
00:37:30.31\00:37:33.11
in the 16th
century, 17th century
00:37:33.15\00:37:36.08
but it didn't, it didn't touch
00:37:36.12\00:37:37.79
the cultural
beliefs of the people.
00:37:37.82\00:37:40.42
Okay.
00:37:40.46\00:37:41.79
So orthodox
Islam is against magic,
00:37:41.82\00:37:45.93
against going to a witch doctor,
00:37:45.96\00:37:50.67
but because of cultural reality,
00:37:50.70\00:37:53.37
most of our people come
from that animistic background,
00:37:53.40\00:37:58.34
and most of them live in fear
00:37:58.37\00:38:01.61
with cases of demon possessions,
00:38:01.64\00:38:03.85
of harassment, evil
spirit harassing them,
00:38:03.88\00:38:07.38
they cannot go in
their farm in the night
00:38:07.42\00:38:09.95
because of
jealousy, some neighbors,
00:38:09.98\00:38:13.79
farming neighbors will
put a spell in their farms,
00:38:13.82\00:38:17.16
so that when they go
to work they get sick
00:38:17.19\00:38:19.69
and there is also
spiritual competitions,
00:38:19.73\00:38:24.13
I mean, in polygamous families.
00:38:24.17\00:38:29.17
If three women are
married to one man,
00:38:29.20\00:38:32.61
and if they want to be
the favored or preferred wife,
00:38:32.64\00:38:37.28
they will put a
spell in the food,
00:38:37.31\00:38:40.18
so that they
will be the first wife
00:38:40.22\00:38:43.55
that draws the
attention of the husband,
00:38:43.59\00:38:46.09
or they will make
the other wife sick,
00:38:46.12\00:38:48.82
so there is all this
mixture of cultural reality
00:38:48.86\00:38:53.29
mixed with Voodoo and Islam.
00:38:53.33\00:38:55.26
And see, to the western mind,
that sounds like hocus-pocus
00:38:55.30\00:39:00.07
but there really
is, it is very...
00:39:00.10\00:39:03.44
This battle that
we are involved in
00:39:03.47\00:39:06.47
is not against flesh and blood,
00:39:06.51\00:39:07.94
but it is against the powers
and principalities of the air,
00:39:07.98\00:39:11.08
and there is
really an evil power.
00:39:11.11\00:39:13.98
But when you have people coming
to see you praying like this,
00:39:14.02\00:39:20.46
have they seen a difference in
00:39:20.49\00:39:22.56
when they're praying to Allah
00:39:22.59\00:39:24.59
or if they're
praying to Jesus Christ,
00:39:24.63\00:39:27.10
have they seen a difference
in the power of prayer?
00:39:27.13\00:39:31.13
Yeah.
00:39:31.17\00:39:32.50
God has been so
faithful to His promises,
00:39:32.53\00:39:35.84
it says in the name of
Jesus Christ only shall I bow.
00:39:35.87\00:39:38.84
So when they come they will say,
00:39:38.87\00:39:40.28
we've taken our child or my wife
00:39:40.31\00:39:42.64
has been in
different places but no result,
00:39:42.68\00:39:47.02
and we would say,
00:39:47.05\00:39:48.92
"There is saving power in
the name of Jesus Christ."
00:39:48.95\00:39:52.35
Amen.
00:39:52.39\00:39:53.72
And they saw the
spirit, they will say,
00:39:53.76\00:39:56.39
"I don't care who you
pray for or who you call,
00:39:56.42\00:40:00.70
I just want to see a result."
00:40:00.73\00:40:03.16
And when we will
pray, we'll fast and pray,
00:40:03.20\00:40:05.30
we ask God to
show His healing power,
00:40:05.33\00:40:09.00
His deliverance,
00:40:09.04\00:40:10.41
because He said,
these are the same
00:40:10.44\00:40:11.94
that will follow in Matthew 16.
00:40:11.97\00:40:14.64
In his name they
will cast out demons,
00:40:14.68\00:40:17.05
so as the Holy
Spirit surrounds the place
00:40:17.08\00:40:20.62
so that there is no interference
00:40:20.65\00:40:22.12
with evil spirits,
00:40:22.15\00:40:23.52
sometimes these
are family spirits,
00:40:23.55\00:40:27.32
because they are
promises from the family
00:40:27.36\00:40:30.76
so that the linage
with several spirit,
00:40:30.79\00:40:35.06
so ask God to clean the curses
in the family, in the names,
00:40:35.10\00:40:40.94
in the bloodstream,
00:40:40.97\00:40:43.04
and ask God to
free those children,
00:40:43.07\00:40:45.54
those women, and
it will not take long,
00:40:45.57\00:40:49.34
they will go home.
00:40:49.38\00:40:50.71
Every night, they have
to fight with bad dreams,
00:40:50.75\00:40:54.58
it will no more happen.
00:40:54.62\00:40:56.08
And they would be surprised.
00:40:56.12\00:40:58.15
And some have told us
00:40:58.19\00:40:59.69
why is it that
praying in the name of Jesus
00:40:59.72\00:41:02.42
has so quick results?
00:41:02.46\00:41:04.73
Because the Quran
says in Surah 2 al Baqarah,
00:41:04.76\00:41:11.37
verse 252 that special
power was given to Isa al Masih,
00:41:11.40\00:41:16.10
the Son of Mary,
to perform miracles.
00:41:16.14\00:41:19.14
So we tell them, if
the Quran says that,
00:41:19.17\00:41:23.35
you have tested it,
00:41:23.38\00:41:24.88
it means Christ is true,
00:41:24.91\00:41:27.05
He is living and
He cares about you
00:41:27.08\00:41:30.09
and He has all
power to set you free
00:41:30.12\00:41:32.92
and to challenge
any other spirit.
00:41:32.95\00:41:34.86
Glory to God. Amen.
00:41:34.89\00:41:36.29
But now Conrad, you're a Brit,
00:41:36.32\00:41:42.36
born in the U.K.,
00:41:42.40\00:41:44.40
did it seem to
you when you first,
00:41:44.43\00:41:47.34
I mean, you've heard
these stories of deliverances.
00:41:47.37\00:41:49.74
Was this something
that was difficult for you
00:41:49.77\00:41:52.97
to accept in the beginning?
00:41:53.01\00:41:56.48
That's a very good question
00:41:56.51\00:41:57.85
because in
Britain our theologians
00:41:57.88\00:42:00.28
in Anglican Christianity,
00:42:00.32\00:42:03.12
they tend to think
that Satan is a joke,
00:42:03.15\00:42:05.82
that the demons are not real,
00:42:05.85\00:42:07.26
that these are a relic
from a superstitious past.
00:42:07.29\00:42:10.79
And yet, I've been
serving in missions
00:42:10.83\00:42:12.93
for over 20 years
and over those years,
00:42:12.96\00:42:15.70
I've been drawn more
and more into the reality
00:42:15.73\00:42:17.73
of deliverance of
people on a regular basis.
00:42:17.77\00:42:20.57
And I see in my
own life and ministry
00:42:20.60\00:42:22.67
the reality of
demonic deliverances
00:42:22.70\00:42:25.04
from harassment.
00:42:25.07\00:42:26.61
Possession is very rare
but harassment is very common.
00:42:26.64\00:42:29.98
And we read in Revelation 12
00:42:30.01\00:42:32.11
that Satan was
angry with the woman,
00:42:32.15\00:42:33.62
went off to make war
00:42:33.65\00:42:34.98
with the
remnant of her children.
00:42:35.02\00:42:36.35
So the Satan makes the object
of his attack God's people.
00:42:36.38\00:42:40.56
And in my
experience now as a pastor
00:42:40.59\00:42:43.09
and as the president of AFM,
00:42:43.12\00:42:46.13
it is my
privilege to be involved
00:42:46.16\00:42:47.86
in many deliverance sessions
00:42:47.90\00:42:49.60
for people in
Africa and here in America,
00:42:49.63\00:42:52.80
and I often find people coming
to me after church and say,
00:42:52.83\00:42:56.10
"Pastor, I have a
shadow in my life,
00:42:56.14\00:42:58.17
I don't know who I can talk to
00:42:58.21\00:43:00.01
because people think I'm crazy."
00:43:00.04\00:43:01.44
Yes. "Can you help me."
00:43:01.48\00:43:02.98
And I cannot help them
00:43:03.01\00:43:04.58
but as my
Pastor Michee has said,
00:43:04.61\00:43:07.05
it is in the
name of Jesus Christ
00:43:07.08\00:43:08.42
that people are delivered.
00:43:08.45\00:43:09.78
Amen.
00:43:09.82\00:43:11.15
And so when we
engage in mission,
00:43:11.19\00:43:12.55
mission is not just
a struggle of ideas.
00:43:12.59\00:43:15.32
It is a power encounter
and it's a truth encounter.
00:43:15.36\00:43:18.29
It is the truth about who God is
00:43:18.33\00:43:20.26
compared with the
lies that Satan has told.
00:43:20.30\00:43:22.73
And as a
missionary the question is
00:43:22.76\00:43:24.63
does the power of the Living God
00:43:24.67\00:43:26.03
flow through you?
00:43:26.07\00:43:27.54
Can people be
delivered from their,
00:43:27.57\00:43:29.94
whatever local
situation they're in,
00:43:29.97\00:43:31.74
whether it be a life of despair,
00:43:31.77\00:43:33.84
whether it be
overt spirit possession
00:43:33.88\00:43:36.08
or worship in a Voodoo country,
00:43:36.11\00:43:38.21
can they be
delivered from the harassment
00:43:38.25\00:43:40.62
that they're experiencing?
00:43:40.65\00:43:41.98
And if Jesus indeed
has all authority and power
00:43:42.02\00:43:44.39
and He can deliver,
then He's worthy of worship.
00:43:44.42\00:43:46.39
Amen.
00:43:46.42\00:43:47.76
And so it's my
privilege as a missionary
00:43:47.79\00:43:50.53
and as a pastor to be involved
in this kind of ministry
00:43:50.56\00:43:53.76
on a regular basis.
00:43:53.80\00:43:55.36
It's not something I look for,
it's not something I ask for,
00:43:55.40\00:43:58.53
it just kind of happens.
00:43:58.57\00:44:00.27
And the councils
of the Apostle Paul
00:44:00.30\00:44:03.27
were like clear, would
not to go looking for demons,
00:44:03.30\00:44:05.91
but on the other hand
we're not to run from them,
00:44:05.94\00:44:08.31
and when we face these
principalities of evil,
00:44:08.34\00:44:10.98
we have to stand fast,
three times in Ephesians 6,
00:44:11.01\00:44:13.68
we have to stand firm and
we have the shield of faith
00:44:13.72\00:44:17.62
in the
breastplates of righteousness,
00:44:17.65\00:44:19.25
and the Word, the
sword of the Spirit,
00:44:19.29\00:44:21.92
which is the Word of God
00:44:21.96\00:44:23.29
and that word is not
the normal word, logos,
00:44:23.32\00:44:26.90
which is like the
written word, is the word rhema.
00:44:26.93\00:44:28.76
Rhema.
00:44:28.80\00:44:30.13
Which means it's the spoken word
00:44:30.17\00:44:31.50
of Jesus Christ.
00:44:31.53\00:44:32.87
Amen.
00:44:32.90\00:44:34.24
And so when you speak the
words of God into an encounter,
00:44:34.27\00:44:37.01
you are speaking the presence
of God into that situation.
00:44:37.04\00:44:40.64
You can do it through singing,
00:44:40.68\00:44:42.01
you can do it through
the reading of scripture
00:44:42.04\00:44:43.38
or reciting scripture,
00:44:43.41\00:44:45.15
and demons tremble
when the presence of God
00:44:45.18\00:44:48.05
is invoked into the situation.
00:44:48.08\00:44:49.42
Glory to God.
00:44:49.45\00:44:50.79
And so whether
you're serving among Hindus,
00:44:50.82\00:44:52.15
Buddhists or Muslims
00:44:52.19\00:44:53.52
or even
post-moderns here in America,
00:44:53.56\00:44:55.46
wherever you go,
00:44:55.49\00:44:57.03
ultimately there is
a great controversy,
00:44:57.06\00:45:00.00
there is a struggle
between Jesus Christ and Satan
00:45:00.03\00:45:02.53
for the soul,
00:45:02.56\00:45:03.90
for the eternal
destiny of those individuals.
00:45:03.93\00:45:06.77
And wherever we serve,
we represent Jesus Christ,
00:45:06.80\00:45:10.54
and we minister in His authority
00:45:10.57\00:45:12.07
and in His name.
00:45:12.11\00:45:13.44
Oh, and I believe in
the power of the rhema word.
00:45:13.48\00:45:15.94
I do want to ask
this quick question,
00:45:15.98\00:45:18.05
and I just want you to repeat it
00:45:18.08\00:45:19.85
because I think you
put your finger on it,
00:45:19.88\00:45:22.62
when we're going out,
it's not just a truth encounter
00:45:22.65\00:45:26.02
when you're coming into a
different religious culture,
00:45:26.05\00:45:29.09
it is a power encounter.
00:45:29.12\00:45:30.93
So if we can, we
can have it all up here,
00:45:30.96\00:45:35.00
we can know the 2,300
days, you can know everything
00:45:35.03\00:45:38.80
but if you're not
filled with the Holy Spirit,
00:45:38.83\00:45:41.50
if you don't
have the power of God
00:45:41.54\00:45:45.01
accompanying your ministry,
00:45:45.04\00:45:47.31
then it becomes a moot point,
00:45:47.34\00:45:50.65
I mean, it's
just you're out there
00:45:50.68\00:45:52.78
like clanging
cymbals if you will,
00:45:52.81\00:45:55.75
you've got to have the
love in the power of God.
00:45:55.78\00:45:58.35
Absolutely, we have to
be motivated by God's love.
00:45:58.39\00:46:02.09
And we had a missionary
00:46:02.12\00:46:04.29
recently engaged in
deliverance ministry
00:46:04.33\00:46:06.59
and this demon spoke to
her from this young girl
00:46:06.63\00:46:08.86
and said, "This girl is
mine, you cannot have her."
00:46:08.90\00:46:11.90
And she was
about to ask the girl
00:46:11.93\00:46:13.27
if she would accept
Jesus as Lord and Savior
00:46:13.30\00:46:14.87
and this demon spoke,
00:46:14.90\00:46:16.24
and the missionary
has an advanced degree,
00:46:16.27\00:46:19.24
many years of experience,
00:46:19.27\00:46:21.14
and at that moment she
realized that all her education,
00:46:21.18\00:46:24.78
her background
meant absolutely nothing.
00:46:24.81\00:46:26.48
Absolutely.
00:46:26.51\00:46:27.85
And she said, the
only thing I could do was
00:46:27.88\00:46:29.32
call in the name of
the Lord Jesus Christ
00:46:29.35\00:46:31.69
and the demon
was not afraid of me
00:46:31.72\00:46:33.19
and he was taunting me,
00:46:33.22\00:46:34.96
and I just called on the
name of the Lord Jesus Christ
00:46:34.99\00:46:37.46
and that lady was delivered.
00:46:37.49\00:46:38.83
Amen. Amen.
00:46:38.86\00:46:40.20
And so when we minister,
00:46:40.23\00:46:41.56
we cannot minister
on our own strength.
00:46:41.60\00:46:42.93
Amen.
00:46:42.96\00:46:44.30
We have to minister in the name
00:46:44.33\00:46:45.67
and under the
authority of Jesus Christ.
00:46:45.70\00:46:47.37
And we have to minister
with the motivation of Jesus
00:46:47.40\00:46:50.14
who came into this world
not to condemn but to save.
00:46:50.17\00:46:51.94
Amen.
00:46:51.97\00:46:53.31
We have 12 pictures
that we want to show
00:46:53.34\00:46:55.21
because you brought them along
00:46:55.24\00:46:56.58
and we can see some of
this work that's going on
00:46:56.61\00:46:59.25
and then after that
00:46:59.28\00:47:00.62
we're going to give
you an opportunity to,
00:47:00.65\00:47:03.72
will talk about your address
00:47:03.75\00:47:05.09
and how to get
in touch with you.
00:47:05.12\00:47:06.59
So here are the
ladies from, you explain.
00:47:06.62\00:47:09.99
We'll go through this quickly.
00:47:10.03\00:47:11.36
Yes, here we have some pictures
of Muslims in West Africa.
00:47:11.39\00:47:13.90
Okay.
00:47:13.93\00:47:15.26
If we want to move
to the next picture,
00:47:15.30\00:47:17.23
these communities in West Africa
00:47:17.27\00:47:19.33
they have come
from many tribal groups,
00:47:19.37\00:47:21.74
they have many
animistic practices.
00:47:21.77\00:47:23.87
This man here is
sitting outside a fetish house.
00:47:23.91\00:47:26.78
So yes, he's a Muslim
00:47:26.81\00:47:28.34
but he's also directly involved
in the worship of spirits.
00:47:28.38\00:47:30.61
Wow.
00:47:30.65\00:47:31.98
And he has fetishes,
00:47:32.01\00:47:33.52
oftentimes they look like
the private parts of a man
00:47:33.55\00:47:37.65
and these fetishes are worshiped
00:47:37.69\00:47:39.62
and people live in
fear of the spirits.
00:47:39.65\00:47:43.06
Here we have Muslims
in a city in West Africa,
00:47:43.09\00:47:46.43
Muslim women, they
tend to go around together.
00:47:46.46\00:47:49.40
They don't like to
go around with men.
00:47:49.43\00:47:51.30
And they go
around in large groups,
00:47:51.33\00:47:52.93
and here we have them
returning from a social event.
00:47:52.97\00:47:56.60
And so the women stay together
for safety among other reasons.
00:47:56.64\00:48:01.14
Here we have another
Muslim religious gathering
00:48:01.18\00:48:03.35
and oftentimes in large crowds
00:48:03.38\00:48:06.25
the men and the
women will separate out.
00:48:06.28\00:48:08.15
So the men are on
one side of the field
00:48:08.18\00:48:10.12
and the women on the
other side of the fields
00:48:10.15\00:48:11.82
and Pastor Michee
was at one such event
00:48:11.85\00:48:14.39
early in his ministry,
00:48:14.42\00:48:15.79
and the crowd turned into a mob
00:48:15.82\00:48:18.19
and they attacked
him because they said,
00:48:18.23\00:48:20.33
"What is this Christian doing
here at a Muslim ceremony",
00:48:20.36\00:48:23.47
and he was
driven away by the mob
00:48:23.50\00:48:25.57
and yet God sent His
angels providentially
00:48:25.60\00:48:27.00
to protect him.
00:48:27.04\00:48:28.37
Amen.
00:48:28.40\00:48:29.74
And so, as we continue
through these pictures,
00:48:29.77\00:48:32.74
here we have
another Muslim family,
00:48:32.77\00:48:34.48
this is in the very west
coast of Africa in a country
00:48:34.51\00:48:38.31
that includes the Sahara Desert.
00:48:38.35\00:48:40.52
And what we find with
Muslims is on a one on basis,
00:48:40.55\00:48:43.69
they're very
friendly, they're very open,
00:48:43.72\00:48:46.02
they're incurious,
they're hospitable.
00:48:46.05\00:48:48.79
Here we have Muslims who
are in a dialogue center.
00:48:48.82\00:48:51.89
They meet on a weekly basis
to discuss concepts of truth
00:48:51.93\00:48:55.36
or
righteousness, or forgiveness,
00:48:55.40\00:48:57.47
or family matters,
00:48:57.50\00:48:58.87
and they compare
what the Bible teaches
00:48:58.90\00:49:00.70
with what the Quran teaches.
00:49:00.74\00:49:02.07
Amen.
00:49:02.10\00:49:03.44
And they find that the gospel
really is a liberating force.
00:49:03.47\00:49:06.27
Here we have a
gentleman from Mali.
00:49:06.31\00:49:09.21
He is a practicing Muslim.
00:49:09.24\00:49:11.05
He is one of the
nomadic tribes from the north.
00:49:11.08\00:49:13.68
This part of the world is
heavily infested with al-Qaeda
00:49:13.72\00:49:17.32
and where our
missionaries serve.
00:49:17.35\00:49:18.75
Al-Qaeda is everywhere.
00:49:18.79\00:49:20.52
And so the missionaries serve
00:49:20.56\00:49:21.89
knowing that al
Qaeda are all around them,
00:49:21.92\00:49:23.76
they know who
the missionaries are,
00:49:23.79\00:49:25.59
and there is a threat
to their life at all times.
00:49:25.63\00:49:29.10
Here we have a young boy,
again in the Sahara Desert.
00:49:29.13\00:49:32.70
They have very
little opportunities
00:49:32.73\00:49:34.44
and Islam provides
a structure for life,
00:49:34.47\00:49:36.50
it governs every aspect of life
00:49:36.54\00:49:39.11
and when Muslims become
Adventists or Christians,
00:49:39.14\00:49:44.18
they often hear about
the freedom of the gospel,
00:49:44.21\00:49:46.38
but many Muslims come from
a very high practice faith,
00:49:46.41\00:49:49.28
or as their faith informs
every aspect to their life,
00:49:49.32\00:49:52.15
they expect
their Christian faith
00:49:52.19\00:49:53.76
will also regulate
every aspect of their life.
00:49:53.79\00:49:56.59
So as western Christians
00:49:56.62\00:49:57.96
we talk about the
freedom of the gospel,
00:49:57.99\00:50:00.26
to a Muslim they say,
00:50:00.30\00:50:01.63
"Well, to be a
follower of Jesus means
00:50:01.66\00:50:03.06
to obey His commandments
in all areas of my life."
00:50:03.10\00:50:06.07
And so you find
that many Muslims
00:50:06.10\00:50:07.67
who become
Adventists are very observant
00:50:07.70\00:50:10.31
of what Jesus taught.
00:50:10.34\00:50:11.67
And really, it should be
00:50:11.71\00:50:13.04
because it's freedom
in Christ Jesus, right?
00:50:13.07\00:50:15.04
Yes.
00:50:15.08\00:50:16.41
It is not freedom to
follow your fallen desires.
00:50:16.44\00:50:17.81
That's exactly
right. Freedom from sin.
00:50:17.85\00:50:19.91
Here we have a gentleman
going through his prayers,
00:50:19.95\00:50:22.18
five times a day.
00:50:22.22\00:50:23.72
And in the first surah
of the Quran, they say,
00:50:23.75\00:50:27.26
shows the right way,
00:50:27.29\00:50:29.26
and they pray that
prayer seven times a day.
00:50:29.29\00:50:31.39
I think that's
why the Holy Spirit
00:50:31.43\00:50:32.76
is showing up to us.
00:50:32.79\00:50:34.13
And when they say,
"Show me the right way,"
00:50:34.16\00:50:36.26
you realize that
they're praying for God
00:50:36.30\00:50:38.13
to show them the right way.
00:50:38.17\00:50:39.50
Even while they're within Islam,
00:50:39.53\00:50:41.27
and that is an opportunity
to say that Jesus is the way,
00:50:41.30\00:50:44.11
the truth, and the life
00:50:44.14\00:50:45.57
and no man cometh to the
Father except through Him.
00:50:45.61\00:50:48.41
You know, I just want
to put up some information
00:50:48.44\00:50:52.61
for Adventist Frontier Missions.
00:50:52.65\00:50:54.35
It is a 501c3
nonprofit organization,
00:50:54.38\00:50:57.95
and perhaps the Holy
Spirit is stirring your heart
00:50:57.99\00:51:00.46
to support
Adventist Frontier Mission
00:51:00.49\00:51:02.66
or maybe you are one of those
00:51:02.69\00:51:05.46
who God is
tapping on the shoulder
00:51:05.49\00:51:07.33
and saying, "Yes,
00:51:07.36\00:51:09.06
I feel the call to
become a missionary
00:51:09.10\00:51:13.94
for Adventists Frontier Mission,
00:51:13.97\00:51:15.77
and a missionary
for Jesus Christ."
00:51:15.80\00:51:18.07
Here is how you can get in touch
00:51:18.11\00:51:20.08
with this wonderful group.
00:51:20.11\00:51:21.44
If you would like to learn
00:51:26.88\00:51:28.22
more about
Adventist Frontier Missions,
00:51:28.25\00:51:30.19
you can do so by writing
to 107 East Ferry Street,
00:51:30.22\00:51:35.02
Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103.
00:51:35.06\00:51:38.16
That's 107 East Ferry
Street, Berrien Springs,
00:51:38.19\00:51:42.40
Michigan 49103.
00:51:42.43\00:51:44.83
You can call
them at 269-473-4250.
00:51:44.87\00:51:49.47
That's 269-473-4250.
00:51:49.50\00:51:53.51
You can also find them
online at afmonline.org.
00:51:53.54\00:51:58.68
That's afmonline.org.
00:51:58.71\00:52:02.75