Participants: CA Murray (Host), Ann Carmouche, Brian Hamilton, John Carmouche
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY017030A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:06 Hello, and welcome to 3ABN today. 01:09 My name is CA Murray. 01:10 Allow me once again to thank you for sharing 01:12 just a little of your busy day with us. 01:15 To thank you as always for your love, your prayers, 01:17 your support of Three Angels Broadcasting Network. 01:20 We realized that we could not do 01:22 what we are called to do without your partnership. 01:24 So we thank you from the bottom of our heart. 01:26 I'm in the company of our CFO, speaking of financial support, 01:30 Mr. Brian Hamilton, Pastor Brian Hamilton, 01:32 you've won many hats in the past 01:34 and wear many hats here. 01:35 Brian, good to have you here, man. 01:37 Yeah, good to be here, CA. 01:38 Today we sort of, we sort of called upon you in your role 01:42 as director of the prison ministries out of 3ABN. 01:46 A ministry that you have taken on that has grown, 01:48 I was gonna say locally but really, 01:50 you've become interstate certainly 01:52 if not international, gone down to Alabama 01:54 and done some other things. 01:55 So it's really, really growing. 01:57 New Mexico, number of different places. 01:58 Yeah, yeah. 02:00 And doing a great work as together 02:02 we both work with Lemuel Vega and Christmas Behind Bars. 02:04 Yeah. 02:06 It's real blessing, the Lord has taken tragedy 02:09 and turned it into something that's more of a triumph. 02:13 And a lot of people whose lives are, 02:17 they find themselves in difficult place, 02:19 its timeout and the Lord reaches them 02:22 during their timeout. 02:23 Yeah, yeah. 02:24 And so it's neat to see 02:26 and be a part of something like that. 02:28 And it's interesting how God, and as you well said can take 02:32 a really tough time in your life 02:33 and give you a ministry that draws out of that, 02:39 and sort of puts you in a place 02:40 that you would not normally think of being 02:41 or having to do something 02:43 which is now very much part of your soul 02:45 that before maybe it wasn't on the radar for you. 02:48 Yes. Yes. Yeah. 02:49 The promise that all things work together for the good. 02:52 Amen. 02:53 We've seen, realize in our own life. 02:55 And we're going to see how it's realized in the life 02:58 of a couple of guests here with us. 03:00 Indeed. 03:02 Our guest are John and Annie Carmouche, 03:05 and I want to get that right 03:07 because there's a little accent on that. 03:09 Good to have you both here. 03:10 And, Annie, good to have you here 03:12 and, John, good to have you here also. 03:15 Of course we're talking about prison ministry today. 03:17 They run a wonderful prison ministry, 03:20 and we're going to talk about that, 03:22 recognized by the conference, working with the conference 03:24 and doing some great work but it too, Brian, 03:29 comes out of an experience. 03:30 Yes. 03:32 And that John had 03:33 and now Annie is part of that experience 03:36 and so we're going to unpackage that story. 03:39 Before we go to our music, 03:40 John, let's just sort of dip our toes 03:42 in the water here just a little bit. 03:44 Tell us where you're from initially, originally? 03:46 Originally, I'm from Louisiana, Marksville to be precise. 03:51 This is a small town that I was born in. 03:53 Later on, I moved to New Orleans 03:55 and I spent most of my early life there 03:58 plus some my adult life. 04:01 When he says Louisiana like that, 04:03 you could tell he's a natural, he's an original. 04:07 And there was, is a large French community 04:10 historically being going back century 04:13 or so that is resident 04:14 in the southern part of Louisiana, 04:16 around New Orleans, isn't there? 04:17 That's correct. Yeah. 04:18 In fact my grandmother and grandfather 04:20 did come from Marseille. 04:22 And they came there 04:24 and they didn't speak English at all 04:26 and they landed in, 04:28 a parish called Avoyelles Parish 04:31 which is in, where Marksville is at. 04:34 And out of that, you know, we were born. 04:38 Marksville, now that must not be the largest city 04:42 in Louisiana by any stretch. 04:46 Yeah, how big a town? 04:48 At the time it was probably 5,000 people maybe, 04:51 maybe 4,000. 04:55 Christian home, faith based growing up, 04:58 what was it like in your home growing up? 05:00 We were Catholic. 05:04 My mother and my father did not go to church 05:07 but they professed Catholicism. 05:10 But my grandmother on my father side, 05:12 she was very faithful to go to church. 05:15 And she also worked at the Catholic school. 05:19 As children were you sort of nominally, 05:21 nominally Catholic or you in church kind of practicing? 05:24 Well, at first we were nominally 05:26 but then when we began to attend the Catholic school, 05:30 it became more evident that we were Catholics 05:34 because we went to Catholic school 05:36 and we went to the Catholic church. 05:39 Brothers and sisters? 05:41 Yes, I had a sister who has passed away since then. 05:45 So you kind of did the bonafidic Catholic thing, 05:47 Catholic church, Catholic school, 05:49 Catholic upbringing and all of Catholic. 05:50 That's boy. 05:54 So you were really, really Catholic. 05:56 Yes. 05:57 And when we come back from a song, Brian, 05:59 I want to ask him about... 06:01 It's one thing as you well know to attend church 06:04 or attend a Christian school or Catholic school, 06:07 parochial school, 06:08 but it's another thing to know Jesus for yourself. 06:10 Yeah. 06:11 And we're going to talk about that 06:12 because your life took some interesting twists and turns 06:15 having read the book and I want to just, 06:16 just put in a little plug for your book, 06:18 "If I Make My Bed In Hell", very aggressive title 06:22 that you had a chance to put down 06:27 what God has done with you, for you, 06:28 to you and through you. 06:30 And it's very riveting, I began reading this 06:32 about midnight last night. 06:35 And sort of propped myself up in the bed 06:38 and got through most of it, really well done 06:41 and quite a saga of your life and that brings you here today. 06:44 So we want to talk about that, but before we do so, 06:47 Brother Brian, we want to go to our music. 06:48 Okay. 06:50 An old friend, and maybe I shouldn't say 06:51 old friend of the ministry 06:53 because this is a long-time friend. 06:56 Kateena LeForge who has been here many, many times 06:59 and she's going to be singing 07:01 "His Strength Is Perfect". 07:16 I can do all things 07:21 Through Christ who gives me strength 07:26 But sometimes I wonder what 07:29 He can do through me 07:36 No great success to show 07:42 No glory of my own 07:46 Yet in my weakness 07:49 He is there to let me know 07:56 His strength is perfect 08:00 When our strength is gone 08:06 He'll carry us 08:09 When we can't carry on 08:16 Raised in His power, 08:20 The weak become strong 08:27 His strength is perfect 08:50 We can only know 08:55 The power that He holds 08:59 When we truly see 09:02 How deep our weakness goes 09:10 His strength in us begins 09:15 When ours comes to an end 09:20 He hears our humble cry 09:25 And proves again 09:29 His strength is perfect 09:34 When our strength is gone 09:39 He'll carry us 09:43 When we can't carry on 09:50 Raised in His power 09:54 The weak become strong 10:00 His strength is perfect 10:09 When our strength is gone 10:15 He'll carry us 10:19 When we can't carry on 10:26 Raised in His power 10:29 The weak become strong 10:36 His strength is perfect 10:46 Raised in His power 10:50 The weak become strong 10:57 His strength is perfect 11:30 CA, "His Strength Is Perfect". 11:32 Amen, I need that. Amen. 11:34 That's a beautiful song, well sung, 11:37 we appreciate Kateena and her ministry 11:41 and Tim Parton on the piano there 11:44 that his nimble fingers can make that piano sing. 11:48 Yep. 11:49 So we have two guests John and Annie... 11:54 Carmouche. 11:55 Carmouche, I know it's French, 11:57 my tongue is still working on that just a little bit. 12:00 But, John and Annie, we're glad that you're here with us 12:03 and, John. 12:05 I haven't read, had a chance to read your book, 12:08 CA had a chance too, I read your testimony 12:11 and it was powerful, it moved me. 12:14 When we left off just before the song, 12:17 we were talking about your Catholic upbringing. 12:21 Yes. 12:22 And I understand you began to have some questions about that 12:27 or somehow you moved away from that. 12:29 You want to share a little more on how that happened? 12:32 Yes, Brian, this is what happened there. 12:35 As you know, I was going to Catholic school, 12:38 and I was being taught by priests and nuns. 12:40 And I had questions about, you know, 12:43 some of the laws of the church. 12:45 And I asked for a Bible first of all and they said, 12:47 "Well, you don't need a Bible, all you need is a catechism 12:50 which is the laws of the church and a missal which is like, 12:54 some like a Sabbath school lesson 12:56 but it's for the year. 12:57 And they said, anything else we would teach you. 13:00 Well, we've heard that before, haven't we? 13:03 Well, anyhow, I wasn't given a Bible 13:07 and I was told at times that you, you know, 13:11 you don't need a Bible because it's too expensive, 13:13 and it's all this and all that. 13:16 So when in 1959, 13:21 I was in VIII grade, 13:24 and I had a question about something that took place, 13:28 because during that year 13:31 the Catholic Church changed the law. 13:34 It used to be, it was a sin to eat meat on Friday, 13:36 if you willingly sinned, you know, 13:39 God would send you to hell, and you'd burn eternally, 13:42 that was the teaching. 13:44 And so this law was that, if you ate meat on Friday 13:50 that you would sin willingly but they chanced a law, 13:53 they said, "You can now eat meat on Friday." 13:56 Well, this puzzled me very much. 13:58 Okay. 14:00 So I said to the nuns and the priest I said, 14:03 "You know, you can't just do that 14:05 so they had this Monsignor come and talk to me." 14:09 He says, "I understand you have a problem 14:10 with the laws of the church." 14:12 I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, what is it?" 14:14 I said, "Well, who changed the law 14:16 that you can eat meat on Friday?" 14:18 He said, "Well, the church did." 14:19 And I said, "Well, church can't do that." 14:21 He says, "Yeah, the church can do anything it wants." 14:24 I said, "Well, what do you do with all these people 14:26 that's burning in hell 14:27 because they ate meat on Friday willingly. 14:31 VIII grader. Yes. 14:33 You know, that's very incisive for a young fella. 14:35 It is. 14:36 To sort of put the dots together, 14:38 connect the dots like that. 14:39 And he said to me, 14:41 I have to get back with you on that. 14:44 He didn't have an answer for that. 14:46 Well, that, you know, 14:47 I had other questions too about Catholicism 14:49 that I didn't agree with very much, 14:52 but that was the icing on the cake for me 14:55 that said well, you know, you don't need to be here, 14:58 because they had begun to prep me 15:01 to go to seminar to become a priest. 15:04 Okay. 15:05 And I was going to leave, 15:07 after the VIII grade I was going to go 15:08 and do my high school at the seminar 15:10 but that didn't happen obviously. 15:13 So I got away from the church, I got away from God completely. 15:18 And I feared God, you know, in that sense I feared God 15:22 in a different way from what I do now. 15:23 Okay. 15:25 I reverence God now but before you know, 15:27 I was like... 15:28 Yeah. 15:30 I'm scared to do most times. For instance, afraid of God. 15:31 Yes. Yes. 15:34 And then I went into playing music, I had a... 15:39 God gave me another talent to play music you know. 15:42 And I went into that and I started playing music 15:45 in nightclubs eventually. 15:48 And I found that the nightlife was, you know, rewarding, 15:51 you know, in many ways. 15:52 What instrument, John? I played saxophone. 15:56 A very seductive instrument by the way. 15:58 Yes, yes. 15:59 And I really enjoyed that until later on 16:05 I started working in the oil field, 16:07 did you want me to continue on here just a bit. 16:10 I started working in the oil fields in, 16:13 off in the Gulf of Mexico off of New Orleans. 16:16 Okay. 16:18 And I really enjoyed this kind of work, 16:20 it was difficult, hard work but I enjoyed it 16:23 and it was very invigorating to me. 16:27 There's lot of mathematics involved 16:29 and I'm very good in mathematics. 16:30 Okay. 16:31 So that's another gift that God gave me 16:34 that I didn't see it at the time but... 16:37 John, give me a some sense because the oil field, 16:41 working in oil fields 16:42 and we know you worked in the Gulf, 16:45 but you also worked in the Persian Gulf. 16:47 Give me some sense or give us some sense of the kind of life, 16:51 the kind of a person that an oil guy is, 16:53 is he a teetotaling Bible-thumping kind of guy 16:57 or is he so independent the other way. 16:59 Give us some sense of the kind of guy 17:01 that an oil field guy is? 17:02 Just the opposite. 17:04 He's rough-and-ready guy and drinks a lot, you know, 17:09 when he comes into the beach or comes into land, 17:12 first thing he does just go to the bars 17:14 and have a few drinks, you know. 17:17 In fact I used to drink, I ordered two beers, 17:21 the first one I never tasted it, 17:22 it just went down after being on a rig for seven days 17:27 and then the second one I just, I drank the other one down, 17:30 you know, sipped it a bit but, you know, 17:33 oil field people get into fights 17:37 which is not unusual. 17:40 And you know, it's... 17:42 They're not called roughnecks for nothing. 17:45 So this, at this point you're out, 17:47 it's seven days out and then how many days on land? 17:50 Seven days in. Seven days out, seven days in. 17:52 You didn't get a lot of mischief 17:54 in seven days, you know. 17:55 You certainly can. Yeah, you can. 17:56 Yeah. 17:59 So it was pretty rough life 18:01 but yet interesting in terms of, 18:04 it was a challenging work to be involved in. 18:07 It was, yeah. 18:09 And probably financially rewarding work. 18:11 Yes, it was very good. Yeah. 18:14 So the pay is pretty good, you make in pretty good money. 18:16 Yes, absolutely. You're saving it, spending it. 18:18 What are you doing with your money? 18:20 Now at first I was spending it and later on 18:22 when I went to the Middle East, I made a lot of money. 18:25 I saved quite a bit of it but... 18:27 Yeah. 18:28 Talk to us about how you got from America 18:31 over working in the Middle East? 18:33 Well, in the United States 18:35 I had worked for about ten years. 18:37 I started as a roughneck 18:39 and I worked for about five years 18:40 I became a driller and then I worked, 18:43 I did that for little less than five years 18:45 and I became a drilling supervisor 18:46 or a tool pusher it's called. 18:48 And you know, things were just ho-hum in the United States. 18:55 So a friend of mine said, brother, said, 18:58 you need to go to the Middle East. 19:00 You know, he said, "You need to go overseas." 19:02 That's what he told me. And I said, "Overseas?" 19:04 He said, "Yeah, you have to think about it, so I said, 19:08 "Perhaps," so he said to me, said, 19:11 "There's a company here 19:13 that they would probably send you over there, you know. 19:16 So I got a hold of a company by the name of 19:20 Southeastern Drilling Company called SEDCO. 19:23 And I talked to them and they said, 19:28 "Yeah, we have a place for you in Iran." 19:31 And I said, "Iran." 19:33 He said, "Yeah," I said, "I never heard of Iran." 19:34 He said, Yes, you have", it's call Iran. 19:37 Oh, I said, Iran. 19:40 Iran, yeah, at that time. 19:43 So they said, 19:46 "Well, we'd like you to go over there?" 19:47 And I said, "Okay, I said, 19:49 well, maybe I should go as a driller." 19:51 Said, "No, no, no with your experience 19:52 you should be a drilling supervisor." 19:55 So I went to the Middle East and I lived in Tehran. 20:00 And I worked off the coast in the Persian Gulf. 20:07 Two questions come to mind, very quickly 20:09 because Annie said to me just before we came on, 20:12 you were making six figures back in the 70s. 20:14 That's right. 20:15 So you're making a lot of money. 20:17 A lot of money. 20:18 But the culture there is not like 20:19 the rough-and-ready loose culture in New Orleans 20:22 that you've to kind of behave yourself a little bit, 20:24 you know, when you came to port? 20:26 Yes, pretty much so. 20:27 You know, it was, it was different, 20:29 I mean, I was... 20:32 I don't know, I would say I was well to do 20:35 in that part of the world, you know, I mean, 20:37 I was looked at as a, you know, okay, 20:40 he's an upstanding man, you know, he's got a good job. 20:44 They called me an engineer, 20:46 and that's what the term was for drilling supervisor. 20:50 And I learned to speak their language there 20:53 which is Farsi. 20:55 And I, you know, the Lord blessed me 20:59 with so many things that I didn't see 21:00 at the time I thought, 21:02 well, this is all my own doing, you know. 21:04 But it wasn't really. 21:07 You know, the Lord was working with me throughout the years 21:10 and trying to get me to accept Jesus Christ 21:14 and which I had read, 21:15 I had studied the Bible for many years, 21:17 but I didn't understand it very well. 21:20 But as I began to work in the Middle East, 21:25 I saw some things that, you know, 21:28 brought me to realize that, 21:31 okay, perhaps there is a God, you know. 21:33 In fact my first assignment was on a rig 21:38 in the Persian Gulf 21:40 and the night before I arrived there 21:42 the rig caught on fire and the person's place 21:46 I was supposed to take that burned. 21:49 And he died in that, in that, on that rig 21:54 and as well several of them did, 21:56 and so I was given another job to do 22:01 during that time, I thought. 22:02 So even though, I mean God is not a part 22:05 of your conscious life right now, 22:07 you're not worshiping Him, not serving Him 22:08 but you can see looking back the protecting hand of God 22:11 through all of these experiences. 22:13 I can, I can. Yeah, that's powerful. 22:15 That's powerful. 22:16 So, did you go over a single man? 22:19 I did. Okay. 22:20 I was single. 22:21 And you know I may had, did a lot of things 22:25 and I met a young lady that 22:30 actually she was younger than I thought she was 22:32 but she told me she was 19 and the time I was 29. 22:36 Okay. 22:38 And which in the Middle East it's not unusual. 22:42 And so I got with her family, you know, 22:45 she invited me to meet her family 22:47 and I did and her family were very nice. 22:49 In fact her father didn't speak English 22:51 but he spoke French. 22:53 So he and I, we communicated well together, 22:57 her mother didn't speak English or French. 22:59 So I had to use a translator at first 23:02 until I learned the language. 23:03 Yeah, now I read it in the book he was 29, 23:07 he was told she was 19, was little bit, 23:09 she was little bit younger than that. 23:11 Oh, really? Oh, yeah. 23:13 Very much, very much so. 23:15 But they, the family had no problem with that, correct? 23:17 No, they didn't have a problem with that, 23:19 that it's normal in the Middle East. 23:22 They wanted their daughter to... 23:24 In fact, she was the youngest of their children 23:27 and they wanted their daughter to marry someone 23:30 who was well-to-do, 23:32 who could take care of their daughter 23:34 and they wanted a nice family. 23:37 So, and I was the one. 23:39 Yeah, so here comes Mr. American guy 23:41 making six figures. 23:42 So that would bring honor to them, 23:43 honor to the family name, 23:45 it'd be, you know, it's all positive. 23:46 That's correct, yes, yes. Yeah, okay. 23:48 Yeah, so she was, she was a good bit younger than you. 23:52 You got married, did you stay there 23:54 or did you come back stateside? 23:56 Actually during that time the Shah was becoming 24:00 deposed in that country, 24:02 and Ayatollah Khomeini was taking over. 24:05 And her family said, particularly her father, 24:10 he was a retired judge and he said, 24:13 "You know, you need to take your little family 24:15 and go back to the United, go to the United States 24:18 because things are not gonna be 24:20 very good over here in this country. 24:21 Yeah, I remember when the Shah left, 24:23 it was kind of pro-western. 24:24 That's right. 24:26 And when Ayatollah came in, 24:27 those kinds of marriages were frowned on. 24:29 They were. 24:30 And the whole swing towards western culture was frowned on, 24:31 they were heading back 24:33 towards their kind of historical culture, 24:34 so wasn't a place you wanted to be 24:36 too much longer I wouldn't think. 24:37 No, sir, I didn't want to be there much longer 24:38 but, you know, I was willing to stay, 24:40 I mean, I knew I could, you know, 24:42 I could maintain, I could manage, 24:43 but my father-in-law was very much wanted, 24:48 he very much wanted me to take our family 24:50 to the United States. 24:52 Your family consisted of at this point? 24:54 I had one son at the time. 24:58 One son was born in Iran. 25:01 So coming back to the States and, you know, 25:03 that's a culture shift, man. 25:05 Yeah. You came back to where? 25:06 Especially for her. Yeah, very much so. 25:09 Where did you come back to? 25:10 Well, we came back to Marksville 25:12 because my mother had lived in Marksville, 25:14 and my grandmother also lived in Marksville. 25:17 And we lived there for a short time 25:21 but my former wife had her, you know, my wife at the time, 25:27 she had family in Washington DC area. 25:31 So I was working, began, I began to work one month on 25:34 and one month off, 25:36 it was a different situation there. 25:39 So I said, "Well, you know, since I have to spend 25:43 a whole month going, I said, 25:44 it would be good if you were next to your family 25:46 so let's go ahead and move to Washington DC area, 25:50 which is in Northern Virginia actually. 25:53 So that's where we moved in. Were you still working in oil? 25:56 Yes. 25:57 So still making decent money, I suspect. 26:00 Oh, yes. 26:01 So that has never been an issue per se. 26:04 You know, you had a good solid job, 26:06 something you could transport and go, you could work, 26:08 you know, and do that. 26:09 Yes. 26:10 Let's go now to because, Brian, 26:12 this is sort of the crux of the story. 26:16 Another child came... 26:18 Yes. 26:19 And then some stuff began to happen. 26:21 So walk us through that experience 26:24 because it's a big part of the book, 26:26 but some things happened 26:29 and that ended up landing you in prison. 26:33 So walk us through that whole experience? 26:35 Okay, well what happened was my second son was born 26:38 and I was still working overseas. 26:41 And then, you know, I could tell that 26:44 there was some changes in my family life 26:46 and I saw that things were happening, 26:51 my wife was having an affair. 26:54 And I didn't want to believe it myself 26:56 but, you know, I tried not to believe it 26:58 but it became so obvious. 27:01 So I quit working overseas 27:02 and I took a job in Northern Virginia. 27:06 And I found it, I found out that, 27:12 yes, she was having an affair. 27:14 And I followed her and her lover 27:17 to a motel one night 27:19 and he and I got into a confrontation, 27:22 and apparently I found and I stabbed him, 27:25 and he died as a result of that 27:27 and I was given 20 to life for a premeditated murder. 27:34 And, but, because of the situation, you know, 27:37 that I was, it was an act of passion, 27:43 it was a crime of passion. 27:46 So that the jury saw that, okay, you know, 27:49 you can have 20 years to life but I spent ten years in prison 27:55 and I was released 27:56 as I mandatory left my sentence. 28:00 I did everything that I was supposed to do 28:02 while I was in prison. 28:03 I didn't cause any problems, 28:05 another thing I had no infractions. 28:08 There's a time that while I was in prison that, 28:11 you know, God really worked in my life. 28:14 You know, when I first went to prison 28:16 I saw that I could go no lower than what I was, 28:20 I could only look up. 28:22 And I saw Jesus, His hand trying to pull me out of this. 28:28 And that was a time while I was in prison that, 28:32 there was a Sabbath issue now, 28:34 I had been a Seventh-day Adventist 28:36 because I had learned Adventism. 28:38 Yeah, let's back up to that 28:40 because we sort of passed over that. 28:42 And then I want to get to Annie. 28:44 Ann, Annie rather, you actually do get to talk, 28:46 so it's okay but... 28:49 No problem. 28:51 We want to come to that because you would had some, 28:53 I'll say brushes with Adventism prior, hadn't you? 28:55 I did. 28:57 I had a collapsed lung in 1986 and I just smoked cigarettes 29:03 and it caused me to have some problems 29:05 and I had a collapsed lung 29:06 and I was in the hospital for 20 days. 29:09 While I was in the hospital, I've been reading the Bible. 29:14 You know, and I studied the Bible, 29:16 I really studied it and I didn't... 29:19 I learned about the Sabbath through reading the Bible, 29:22 through reading the gospels particularly. 29:25 But every preacher that I asked outside of Adventism 29:29 gave me answers like 29:31 well, we're not under the law, we're under grace. 29:36 We don't keep the law anymore or suffer less, 29:39 and I said, "Well, what does that mean"? 29:43 And you know, well, we just, you know, we just don't, 29:45 don't keep the law anymore. 29:46 I said, "Oh, so that means that I can take your car, 29:49 I can take your money, and your wife and go party." 29:51 Well no, they would say, you know. 29:53 Yeah. 29:54 I said, "Well, what does it mean then?" 29:56 Yeah. 29:57 Well, we just don't keep the fourth commandment 29:59 what they were telling about. 30:01 And so I was in this hospital bed 30:06 and this nurse said to me, says, 30:08 "Would you like to speak with someone, 30:09 there's a man you would like to talk and I said, "Sure." 30:12 So he came to the door 30:14 and he put his head through door, 30:15 he said, "Hi, my name is John". 30:17 And I said, "My name is John too." 30:20 I said, "Come on in." 30:21 So we chatted for a few minutes and he said to me, he said, 30:24 "I've seen you've been reading the Bible. 30:25 Do you have any questions?" 30:26 I said, "Yeah, tell me about the Sabbath." 30:29 Well, he expounded upon the Sabbath and I said, 30:31 "Yeah, that's what it says in the Bible." 30:34 And he was the Seventh-day Adventist minister. 30:36 Okay. 30:37 And he said, "We're Sabbath keepers." 30:40 I said, "Really?" 30:42 "Yeah, he said, we're Seventh-day Adventists." 30:44 He said, "Have you ever heard of Seventh-day Adventist?" 30:45 And I said, "No." 30:47 And I hadn't really I mean, I knew of Herbert W. Armstrong 30:51 which was a worldwide church of God. 30:54 But that was another situation that came about 30:57 and I didn't take part of that. 30:59 But so then, this was Pastor John, he said, 31:02 "When do you get out of the hospital?" 31:04 I said, "Oh, in a week about you know, a few days". 31:07 He said, "Would you like to come to our church?" 31:08 I said, "Yeah, I would." 31:10 So I did, I went to the church. 31:11 And they gave me two books, The Desire of Ages 31:14 and The Great Controversy, said, you have to read these. 31:15 Not bad stuff, yeah, that's pretty good. 31:19 So I said, "Okay, you know, I read The Desire of Ages 31:21 and I said, "Well this is the gospels 31:23 in chronological order, you know. 31:24 I said, "It's a great book here." 31:26 Yeah. 31:27 And so when I went to, and then I started reading 31:31 The Great Controversy, I said, 31:32 "Wow, and I knew a lot about the things 31:34 that happened in Catholicism so this brought things 31:37 to memories from what I had learned 31:39 at the Catholic School. 31:40 Okay. 31:42 So when I went back to the church I said, 31:45 "Who is this E.G White?" 31:47 And he said, "Well, she is a prophet." 31:50 What? 31:51 And he said, "She is a prophet". 31:53 Oh, wait a minute, I'm not sure about that. 31:55 Yeah, okay. 31:57 I said, prophets come from the Bible, you know. 31:58 Yeah. 32:00 Wow, you know it's interesting, 32:02 as, as looking back at his life, Brian. 32:04 You are, first of all you're a logical thinker, 32:06 you're an investigative kind of guy. 32:07 Yes. 32:09 And you connect dots, so some things 32:11 that may not occur to others occurred to you, 32:14 so even though you're not following God, 32:16 God sort of tracking you down, He's kind of keeping in touch 32:18 and He'll not let you get too far. 32:20 That's right. 32:21 When you were in, with the hospital, 32:24 with the collapsed along, 32:25 were you married at this point of time? 32:27 Oh, yes, I was. You were married? 32:28 Yes. 32:29 Did your swinging in towards Adventism, 32:32 your move toward Adventism, 32:34 did it affect your home life at all? 32:35 Very much so. Yeah, I would think so. 32:38 She said to me, I took her to church with me 32:42 a couple of times and she said, "I don't like these people, 32:47 they don't drink, they don't smoke, 32:49 and they don't party." 32:50 And I said, "Yeah, I know it's time to stop this." 32:53 And she said, "I don't have anything to do with them." 32:58 So she was here and I was here. 33:02 And this was after you had moved back to the States? 33:04 Yes, we had moved back to States, 33:06 this was in Woodbridge, Virginia, 33:08 actually it was Northern Virginia. 33:11 So you got some dissonance there already, 33:14 because you're moving towards the Lord 33:18 and she is resisting that move. 33:20 Yes. 33:22 Of course, that does allow for Satan to come in 33:24 and bring some pretty face and some pair of pants 33:27 and then now you got, 33:29 you got some other kinds of issues. 33:30 So now jumping back forward, you're in prison 33:34 and is this Adventism thing, 33:37 I use that term coming back to you, 33:38 is it beginning to, the Lord is beginning 33:40 to speak to you while... 33:41 It is, it is. Yeah. 33:43 And I found that while I was in prison 33:45 that there was a Seventh-day Adventist 33:48 Bible study going on at the prison. 33:51 Okay. 33:52 And this was great for me because I said, you know, 33:56 I want to learn more about this Adventism, 33:58 actually I had already been baptized 34:00 but I hadn't had the change of heart, 34:02 you know what I mean. 34:04 Yeah. 34:05 Had, excuse me I had the, in my mind I knew 34:09 a lot of about Adventism. 34:11 And I knew a lot about God. 34:14 But my heart had not given up yet. 34:17 Yeah, yeah. 34:18 Now I've got to move along because this is good story 34:20 and I don't want to, don't want to lose it. 34:23 Was it in while you're in prison 34:25 that your first marriage sort of dissolved? 34:29 No, it actually... 34:31 Well, it finished dissolving there, yes but... 34:33 Yeah, well, we know it was dissolved 34:36 that's why you're in prison. 34:37 Yeah, that's right. 34:38 But as far as, as far as this divorce 34:40 and sort of ending that, 34:41 that happened while you were in prison. 34:43 Yes. 34:44 Now I do know, there's a cute story 34:47 because you are having some dietary problems in prison 34:51 because in prison both of us have been there 34:53 we know that the food is not necessarily, 34:55 they don't have a nutritionist and all this kind of thing. 34:56 Definitely. 34:58 And you saw some people eating differently 34:59 and you wanted to have what they had 35:01 and you found that those were the Jewish guys 35:04 and the Muslim guys and they were eating fruit 35:07 and vegetables and clean things and that's what you wanted. 35:10 That's what I wanted. 35:11 Yeah, yeah, and the Lord worked it out that you got that. 35:13 He did. Praise the Lord. 35:15 What happened was... Go ahead. 35:17 You know, I saw these guys 35:18 and first I confronted one of these men 35:21 and he was Muslim, right, and I said, 35:23 "Well, where did you get that diet?" 35:24 He said, "Well, it's a Muslim diet, man, 35:26 you got to be Muslim to get that." 35:27 And I said, really, 35:29 and so where the Jews have it too, 35:31 you know, so then I put in to see the chaplain, 35:34 and the chaplain said, "Oh, well, you got to, 35:36 if you want to get on that diet, he said, 35:37 you got to see the assistant warden, 35:39 you got to see the warden." 35:40 I said, "Okay, so I couldn't see the warden 35:42 and they sent me to the assistant warden 35:44 and he said, "Well, why do you want to be on that diet?" 35:46 I said, "Because it's nutritious you know, 35:48 and I said, it's just good food." 35:49 You know, he said, "Well, it's got to be more than that, 35:52 it's got to be some kind of religious conviction." 35:54 I said, "Oh, yeah, okay." 35:56 And he said, "Well, I said, Seventh-day Adventists are, 35:58 you know, predominantly vegetarians. 36:01 And we eat, you know, good food. 36:03 He said, "Well, do you have any documentation then?" 36:05 Oh, yeah, so I had some 36:07 Amazing Fact study guides on that now, 36:09 so I had some Ellen White writings on that 36:11 and I brought them to him and he got back with me 36:14 and he said, "If anybody should be on his diet 36:17 you should be on it, 36:18 he said, I'm going to have you get on this diet. 36:20 Amen, amen. 36:21 So he did, I got on that diet. Great. 36:23 Let me interject in here just a minute, 36:26 part of the reason why that's an issue in prison 36:29 is the diet that is for Jews or Muslims or someone 36:35 who wants this kind of a healthier diet 36:38 is more expensive to the prison administration 36:44 than the regular diet. 36:49 So it costs them and that hurts. 36:52 Yeah, so there's that bottom-line. 36:54 So you got to earn that diet, yeah, yeah. 36:57 I want to interject a little 36:58 spiritual sort of thought in here 37:01 about the experience you went through with your, 37:06 with your wife and the affair in that whole situation 37:11 because there's a text here in Proverbs it says, 37:14 "Wrath is cruel..." 37:16 That's right, yeah. 37:17 "And anger a torrent 37:20 but who is able to stand before jealousy." 37:24 That's right. 37:26 Now the Bible isn't condoning those actions, 37:29 but it is recognizing that we all within us 37:34 have those kind of emotions and feelings 37:37 and they're very powerful and there isn't any one of us 37:41 that couldn't be a step or two away 37:44 from a long prison term because of that. 37:47 That's right. This is very true. 37:49 And so there's a lot of, 37:51 a lot of men and women in prison today 37:54 because of their inability 37:58 to control their emotions and their anger. 38:01 Well said, well said. 38:03 And really you weren't lying and wait and the reason 38:06 that your senses was, as it was 38:08 because it wasn't a premeditated thing, 38:10 I mean, you follow them for a while 38:11 but you didn't say, "You know, 38:13 I'm going to take this guy's life, 38:14 that was just something happened 38:15 in the heat of passion. 38:17 That's right. 38:18 And it does happen, now I want to get to, 38:19 and I want to go to Annie here, 38:21 how did you meet Brother Carmouche here, 38:25 how did you come into the picture? 38:27 Well, he, while his short time as a Seventh-day Adventist 38:32 before his crime, 38:35 he was a member of the Woodbridge Church 38:37 and there was a retired pastor there 38:39 who befriended him after he was put in prison. 38:45 He continued to connect with him 38:48 and let him know how his boys were doing 38:50 and he was starting a new church 38:52 in a Darke County near Woodbridge. 38:54 And I was a member of that group, that company. 38:58 And he would mention every Sabbath, 39:02 "Please pray for my friend John Carmouche, 39:05 he is a good man, he was a good father, 39:08 he's got two children, and he committed a crime 39:13 but he's really surrendered his heart to God, 39:16 please pray for him." 39:17 And then he started putting up a little postcard please write, 39:21 just give him a little word of encouragement whatever. 39:24 And so I see on the bulletin board 39:27 every Sabbath this name and address of this man 39:30 that I didn't know. 39:32 And the Holy Spirit started working on me 39:34 and I started asking some of the church members, 39:36 you know, "Did you ever write to this John Carmouche guy? 39:40 No, I didn't get a chance, no, I haven't, no, sorry, 39:43 I'm going to, whatever, nobody was. 39:46 So finally I decided it, I needed to just give him 39:50 a little note of encouragement, so I wrote him a little note 39:53 and said, I'll try to be a pen pal, 39:55 I'm not sure how often I can write whatever, 39:57 that was the beginning and then the rest is history. 40:00 Amen and amen. 40:01 Now I want to move the story along 40:03 because I see our time is slipping away 40:04 because you wrote for two years 40:06 but you kept it strictly spiritual. 40:07 Yeah, he would write me about questions 40:10 that he was ministering in the prison 40:13 and the men would give him questions 40:16 and sometimes he didn't have the answers. 40:18 So if I didn't have the answer I would check 40:20 with some of my college friends and pastors 40:23 and then I'd write him back and I just, 40:25 just kept it strictly spiritual. 40:27 All right, who of the two of you 40:30 sort of swung the pendulum to the, 40:34 not so spiritual part? 40:36 Well, I think it began when he finally asked me 40:39 he would write things, I have two children 40:41 and some of his concerns, he poured his heart to me 40:44 but I just kept it spiritual, 40:46 but then when he asked me 40:48 if there was the remotest possibility 40:51 that I might be able to contact his ex-wife 40:54 and see if I could get permission slips 40:59 and whatever to bring his sons to visit him. 41:03 And so that's how it began, I did that 41:07 and eventually we got all the paperwork 41:10 and eventually I got them down there 41:11 and then once we met we found that 41:13 we had a lot of things in common, 41:15 and then it just went from there. 41:19 That's a very, very... 41:21 First of all thank you for doing that for him. 41:23 You know, that's, that's a big step 41:24 to go from just Bible study to, 41:26 now you're into his personal life, 41:28 did you meet the ex-wife? 41:30 Yes, I had met her when I had to go up 41:33 and pick up the boys and take the paperwork 41:36 and this and that and so I met her a few times 41:39 and even though she told me at that first meeting, 41:42 you know, I loved him when we first got married 41:44 but I don't love him anymore, 41:46 I don't ever want to see him again. 41:49 She has, she does live nearby and we have, 41:52 we meet on grandchildren's birthdays 41:55 and things like that we still see her she... 41:57 And I think we ought to put in here 41:58 and acquainted to you, John, your ex even said, 42:01 he was a good father and a good man. 42:04 She did, she did. That came out of her lips. 42:06 Yeah, it did. 42:08 Yeah, now we gotta fast forward into ministry. 42:10 We do, we do. 42:12 The Lord took this tragedy, this event in your life 42:17 and has turned it into a ministry, 42:20 tell us a bit about that? 42:22 Well, this is what, I every day 42:25 I would go out to the wreck for you 42:27 and I take my Bible 42:28 and some Spirit of Prophecy books 42:30 and I go down and I sit down in this special place, 42:32 there was a rock here 42:33 and I sit down next to this rock 42:35 and I'd read, I'd study the Bible. 42:37 Eventually people started coming to me 42:39 and asking me questions about the Bible. 42:42 Some of them say, man, 42:43 "Why do you read that Bible all the time?" 42:45 And I said, "Because I want to know 42:47 what God's will is for me." 42:49 And that was always the answer, 42:51 "I want to know what God's will is for me", 42:54 because I know 42:55 it's got to be more than just this. 42:58 And it happened away, 43:00 I need to tell this little story here 43:02 this one time, 43:03 it happened that there was a Sabbath issue, 43:06 I was a plumber. 43:07 And I was called on Friday evening and they said, 43:11 "We want you to go fix hot water in this building" 43:15 and I said... 43:16 And this is in the prison? 43:17 It was in prison. Okay. 43:19 And I said, "I don't work on Sabbath." 43:21 And he said, "Well, when is the Sabbath?" 43:22 And I said, "Friday night sundown 43:23 to Saturday night sundown." 43:26 So they said, "Well, how many on the plumbing crews," 43:29 I gave the names of those on the plumbing crew 43:32 and they called and they said, 43:33 "They all said they don't know what to do but you do." 43:37 So then I was called to the yard office 43:39 which is where the, the higher-ups 43:42 or and this lieutenant said to me says, 43:46 he called me Carmouche, he said, 43:48 Mr. Carmouche we have a problem here in the prison 43:51 and as we have a problem here, 43:53 there's no hot water in his building you know 43:54 and I said, sir, I said, 43:55 "You know, I don't work on Sabbath." 43:57 I said, "My supervisor knows that." 43:59 And I said, there's a letter here at the office 44:02 or someplace, well, 44:04 they couldn't find a letter obviously, but anyhow, 44:07 so I refused to work on Sabbath. 44:10 Well, while I was in his office something happened 44:14 and he got a phone call and he says, 44:16 "Well, I don't know what happened he said, 44:18 but they have hot water now." 44:20 And I said, "That's a power of God." 44:22 So I was sent back to my room and it came back, 44:27 he got to the warden and the warden said, 44:29 take away his good time, put him in the hole 44:31 and take away his good time. 44:33 And I was, at the point of losing four years of good time. 44:38 So I prayed about it and I called Nancy, 44:42 I called Annie here and I said, 44:44 "You know, we got to pray about this and so we did, 44:47 we prayed and we fasted and when it came time 44:51 for them to serve me with this charge 44:52 which is on Monday, the officer says, 44:56 "I don't know what kind of power you got 44:58 but the warden tore that charge up. 45:00 Amen. I said Praise God. 45:02 That's Jesus Christ is involved in this. 45:04 Amen. That doesn't happen very often. 45:06 No, it doesn't. No. 45:08 I've never heard of it happening before. 45:10 Yeah. 45:11 So you came out of prison to try to move on 45:14 along after ten years, ten years served. 45:16 Yes, ten years. 45:17 Then how did the ministry start? 45:19 Well, I didn't want anything to do with prison 45:21 to begin with 45:22 because I got a job 45:25 at Heartland Institute right away. 45:27 While I was in prison 45:28 there were people coming to visit me 45:30 that I didn't really know but they were, 45:33 the Administrative Committee from Heartland Institute 45:36 and they were, they were interviewing me 45:40 what they were doing and I didn't know that, 45:41 they asked me questions about what happened in 1844 45:45 and what happened here, you know, and this and that 45:46 and I knew the answers because I studied it all out. 45:49 So when I got out of prison I was given a job 45:54 at Heartland Institute and put in a bookstore. 45:59 And while I was working in the bookstore you know, 46:01 I realized that, okay, 46:03 here's some good books and everything else. 46:05 Well, I didn't want to even look at the prison 46:07 because we go by it on the way to work and I'd hide my face. 46:12 So then when I... 46:16 One day I was impressed because somebody in the prison 46:21 that I knew said, there's a group of people, 46:24 the group of men here from the Messianic Jews 46:27 that need a sponsor, 46:28 can you find someone to come and minister to them? 46:32 So I checked on a few people and nobody wanted to do this 46:36 'cause they didn't have time for it. 46:37 So this little voice says to me, said, you go. 46:41 And you know, when you hear that small little voice 46:46 you know, it's nagging sometimes, isn't it? 46:50 So I did, I called the prison 46:53 I said, "Well, what do I have to do?" 46:54 I said, I'm a convicted felon and they said, 46:55 "Oh, yeah, just come on in 46:57 and fill out the paperwork so I did. 46:58 Well, I got denied right away. 47:02 So I kept trying to find somebody else 47:06 but the little voice said to me appeal it. 47:09 What? Appeal the decision. 47:12 So I went and I said, "Who would I have 47:13 to appeal the decision to come into the prison? 47:16 And they said, "You have to see the warden." 47:18 So they got the assistant warden 47:20 and I talk with him, and I told him 47:23 the story about everything and he said, 47:24 you know what, Mr. Carmouche, he said, 47:27 "I'm going to help you get into this prison 47:29 because I think that, you know, 47:31 you have a legitimate reason to do this." 47:34 And he did, he helped me to get in 47:35 and we started ministering in 2008 to the Messianic Jews. 47:39 Now I got another guy name Brian Beavers involved in it. 47:45 He didn't want to go at first but once he started going 47:49 and you know, how prison ministry is. 47:50 Oh, yes. Yeah. 47:52 Once you start going... 47:53 Yeah, it changes. 47:55 Your life is changed completely. 47:57 Yeah, yeah. 47:58 Now let me, at this point were you married 48:01 and how long after you got out of prison did you get marry? 48:03 Actually we got married while I was still in prison. 48:05 While you're still in prison, okay, very good, very good. 48:07 Did the idea, Annie, of doing the prison ministry, 48:11 was that something that settled into your heart very easily 48:14 or did you kind of go kicking and screaming into that? 48:17 No, it did, it was fine, 48:19 I thought that it was good for him. 48:20 It was therapeutic for him I think and, 48:23 and I could see that the Holy Spirit 48:25 was really working on him and I mean I couldn't, 48:29 you have to go with the flow 48:30 when the Holy Spirit is calling, you know. 48:33 And so I do not go into the prisons, 48:35 I do the paperwork and I do I write articles etcetera. 48:39 But I'm 100 percent behind him and it's been, 48:42 it keeps him very busy and he, he loves it. 48:47 And he gets people involved and they love it. 48:50 Amen, amen. 48:51 Now the ministry is Bibles 4 Prisoners, 48:55 so your main focus is to get the word of God 48:58 into the prisons, 48:59 into the hands of the offenders or of the inmates. 49:02 Yes. 49:03 Your ministry is recognized by the local church 49:05 and the local conferences, isn't that? 49:07 Yes, it is. 49:08 So you're working with, and your conference is the...? 49:10 Potomac Conference. Potomac Conference. 49:12 So you're working with Potomac Conference. 49:15 So this comes with the full imprimatur 49:18 of the church is something you're doing with, 49:19 with church support and church encouragement. 49:21 Yes. 49:23 What is your, how do you go about, 49:25 now like Lemuel does, 49:27 gift bags and things, what do you do, 49:29 give us your routine 49:30 as how you interface with the prisons? 49:32 Well, there is two of the prisons that we go to 49:34 which are maximum security prisons, 49:35 we just bring a form and let them fill out the form 49:38 and we just send them whatever they want, 49:40 you know, some books and a Bible, 49:43 but two other prisons they have to have 49:46 a personal property request form 49:47 if you know what I'm talking about, 49:49 they have to request it through there 49:50 and they have to get it approved 49:52 and then they give it to us, then we send it to them. 49:55 So what we do is, we take these forms 49:57 and my wife sees me coming home with this, 50:00 you know, and I fill out always on the computer here 50:03 and I put all the information down 50:04 and I keep a record of everything that goes out. 50:07 Well, we have gotten funds for this ministry 50:13 and actually it started with 50:15 when I retired from Hartland Institute, 50:19 I took the money that I had gotten retired from 50:21 and I purchased Bibles with them. 50:23 She thought I was going to do something else with it. 50:27 But that's what I did, I purchased Bibles 50:29 because I saw such a great need. 50:31 And we just used King James Bibles 50:33 because it's best to have everybody 50:35 on the same page, you know. 50:37 So we provide and they're good leather Bibles, 50:40 leather bound Bibles. 50:42 So these are quality Bibles, 50:43 not just a little papers or something. 50:45 Absolutely good, good quality Bibles, yes. 50:46 The prisons provide paperback 50:48 and not very good quality Bibles 50:51 but they need something they can keep in their cell 50:53 or on their person they can write in it, 50:55 they can take notes and, 50:58 and it really helps them in their spiritual walk. 51:02 Before our time gets away and I want to do this 51:07 as you look back over the years that the ministry has existed, 51:11 give us one miracle story or one testimony 51:14 that really stands out in your mind from the ministry, 51:18 from Bibles 4 Prisoners 51:22 Well, Bible 4 Prisoners, well... 51:28 I guess that because you know, 51:30 so many people have made changes in our lives 51:33 because of these Bibles. 51:34 we're going to these prisoners and we tell them 51:37 about Jesus Christ, we talk to them about, 51:41 that they can get this free Bible you know, 51:43 and for instance there was a young man, 51:46 he had just last week, he was a Jehovah Witness 51:50 and his whole family was Jehovah Witness 51:52 and when his, he started studying 51:56 because he heard that Jesus Christ is God 52:00 and Jehovah Witness don't believe that, 52:01 they believe he's a created being. 52:06 And he is, they do believe that he's Michael the Archangel 52:09 but on the other hand he's not God. 52:12 So then this man gave his testimony here last week 52:15 that he has accepted Jesus Christ. 52:18 And through reading of the Bible 52:20 and our preaching into that prison, 52:23 he has made some changes in his life. 52:26 And he has talked to his mom about and his mom said, 52:30 "Oh, you know, they've corrupted his mind." 52:33 Well, his mom is now studying about this same thing 52:37 and his grandmother is Jehovah Witness 52:39 and his uncles and aunts so it's begun, 52:42 it's begun to change people's lives 52:46 not only in prison but outside of prison as well. 52:48 Amen, amen. 52:50 This ministry is one, Brian, that deserves your prayers 52:55 and your financial support. 52:57 Two people who have given their lives to the Lord 52:59 who have a great history, 53:00 should you like to help them 53:02 by providing Bibles, providing money 53:04 so they can get Bibles. 53:06 Here is the contact information 53:08 that you need for Bibles 4 Prisoners, 53:12 here's what you need to do. 53:15 If you would like to learn more about Bibles 4 Prisoners, 53:18 you can do so by writing to Bibles 4 Prisoners, 53:22 PO Box 972, Locust Grove, Virginia, 22508. 53:28 That's PO Box 972, 53:30 Locust Grove, Virginia, 22508. 53:35 You can also call them at 540-729-5705. 53:40 That's 540-729-5705. 53:45 You'll also find them online at Bibles4Prisoners.com. 53:49 That's Bibles then the number 4 then Prisoners.com. |
Revised 2022-03-29