Participants: John and Angela Lomacang (Host), Donna Willey
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY017027A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord let my word 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:07 Hello, friends, and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:10 Thank you for tuning in 01:11 for the first time or tuning back. 01:13 My name is John Lomacang 01:14 and to my left is my lovely bride, 01:17 and what's your name bride? 01:18 Angie Lomacang and I am so glad even you have tuned in today. 01:22 You're gonna be blessed today, 01:24 I'm telling you that right now so don't change that channel. 01:27 That's right. 01:28 Don't change, don't pick up that remote and go anywhere, 01:30 you stay tuned. 01:31 We have a fascinating program. 01:33 The topic is a single word "Empty". 01:35 Yes. 01:36 And there are people watching or listening to this program 01:38 that may have at one point or the other or even right now 01:42 may be going through an empty place, 01:44 an empty season. 01:46 You may be devoid of joy 01:48 or trying to find your place in the world. 01:51 This program is for you and you may know somebody 01:55 that may be going through a season of empty. 01:58 Our guest today is one we know very well 02:01 and we're excited for that reason 02:02 to be the interviewees. 02:03 Yeah. 02:05 Or the interviewers and we want you to stay tuned 02:07 because the Lord has chosen this hour to be the time 02:10 where the empty places of your life can be filled 02:14 and you can find lasting meaning 02:16 as it is centered on Christ, 02:19 you know, whenever you tune in. 02:20 We also want to thank you for your prayers 02:22 and your financial support of this network 02:24 as we continue going and growing, 02:26 getting ready for the coming of the Lord. 02:29 Honey, we have some music today 02:30 and one person we know very well 02:33 is gonna be giving our music. 02:35 Valerie Shelton Walker 02:38 is going to be singing the song, 02:40 "His Strength is Perfect". 02:57 I can do all things 03:02 Through Christ who gives me strength 03:07 But sometimes I wonder what He can do through me 03:19 No great success to show 03:24 There is no glory of my own 03:29 Yet in my weakness 03:31 He is there to let me know 03:39 That His strength is perfect 03:44 When our strength is gone 03:50 He'll carry us 03:54 When we can't carry on 04:02 Raised in His power 04:06 The weak become strong 04:13 His strength is perfect 04:19 His strength is perfect 04:26 We can only know 04:31 The power that He holds 04:36 When we truly see 04:39 How deep our weakness goes 04:47 That's when His strength in us begins 04:54 When ours comes to an end 04:59 He hears our humble cry 05:03 And proves again 05:08 That His strength is perfect 05:13 When our strength is gone 05:20 He'll carry us 05:23 When we can't carry on 05:31 Raised in His power the weak 05:37 We become strong 05:39 He makes us strong His strength is perfect 05:46 When our strength is gone 05:53 He'll carry us 05:57 When we can't carry on 06:04 Raised in His power 06:09 The weak, we become strong 06:16 His strength is perfect 06:25 His strength is perfect 06:30 His strength is perfect 06:36 His strength is perfect 06:49 Thank you, Valerie, for that wonderful song. 06:51 Was that nice? Yes. 06:53 And that song, honey, it fits into this program. 06:55 Oh yeah, absolutely. 06:56 When we, when our strength is gone, 06:58 His strength is perfect. 07:00 Amen. 07:01 Why don't you do the honors of introducing our guest today? 07:03 Oh, I'm delighted to introduce our guest. 07:06 Donna Willey. 07:07 She and her husband, they are wonderful people, 07:11 Rod and Donna Willey. 07:13 Welcome, Donna. Thank you. 07:14 And you are from up near Galesburg, Illinois. 07:19 We are from the great metropolis of Peoria, Illinois, 07:22 so that's a, that's a little north of here 07:25 but it's been, it's been a good life, 07:27 it's been good years living there. 07:30 Rod and I both are lay pastors of a lay driven church 07:34 and you may recall 07:35 we started this church 07:36 in the waiting room of our dental office 07:39 some years ago 07:40 and it's just been a real blessing 07:43 to see God work, 07:45 to see His hand move in different lives 07:47 and different ministries and just to see what, 07:51 what He really wants for each of us. 07:53 But, you know, the story begins way 07:56 before that and I can remember that, 08:00 that cold day when I walked out of the hospital. 08:04 I was supposed to leave with a little bundle in my arms 08:08 and we left empty armed. 08:12 We had no baby to bring home and I just, 08:16 that was such a really hard time in our life 08:19 and I really see now looking back 08:21 how God has used 08:23 all those fragmented pieces to put us 08:27 where we are today and so it's a great story 08:31 and that's why I wrote about it in my book "Empty" 08:34 because I do see it as the silent shame 08:39 that happens in our churches today. 08:42 I was thinking of the title "Empty" 08:44 and the subtitle from Despair to Deliverance. 08:47 When you talked about Empty, I had to ask the question 08:49 how did you come up with that title 08:51 and it was interesting 08:52 you mentioned a number of different types of empty, 08:54 talk about that? 08:56 Well you know emptiness occurs when we just, 08:59 we can't describe what's going on inside of us, 09:02 any other way. 09:03 Maybe it's an empty bedroom, we had lost the spouse, 09:06 maybe it's an empty bank account, 09:09 we're going through financial problems, 09:11 maybe it's just empty self-worth, 09:14 we don't feel worthy to be where we are, 09:18 and for me it was an empty nursery 09:22 so either way you know that, 09:23 that emptiness is it comes to all of us, doesn't it? 09:27 At some point, we as long as we're on planet earth, 09:31 we will sustain loss and during those times of loss, 09:36 we feel very empty 09:38 and I didn't want to write about it 09:40 because it just seems so sad and yet the more people I meet 09:46 and the more people that email me 09:50 of what they're going through, 09:52 one out of every four pregnancies today 09:55 ends in death. 09:57 Oh my... 09:58 And the number of widows throughout our country is huge. 10:03 So emptiness is a very real issue 10:06 and it's a spiritual issue, 10:09 and that's why I really felt 10:10 as though I needed to write about it 10:12 and that's what this book is. 10:14 But now, as I look at the title... 10:16 And foreword... 10:17 Yeah, we'll talk about that. 10:18 Who did the foreword which is exciting? 10:20 It is exciting and you know I just, 10:22 I just really looking for the right person 10:24 that could associate with loss. 10:28 It was truly Dr. Ben Carson and I asked him to foreword it 10:32 because he has had years of experience 10:36 watching people, such as I, 10:39 leave the hospital with empty arms 10:42 and they went to, 10:44 you know, for a joyous occasion and it turned, 10:48 and it wasn't that joyous when they left 10:51 and so I asked him to write the foreword 10:53 and he did so, 10:54 and I really appreciate his thoughts in the book 10:57 and that too will be a blessing. 11:01 You know, we had a chance to sit down 11:02 in a more casual setting 11:04 when we were on our way to the pastors' meeting, 11:06 not too long ago actually, we stopped by and spent, 11:09 spent some time with you and your husband and family 11:11 and got to know you a little better, 11:13 you know, not, not often do we get a chance 11:15 to sort of speak and I use this loosely let our hair down 11:18 because my hair is always sprayed. 11:20 But we had a chance to sit down and talk with you 11:23 and when you talk about the title "Empty," 11:25 there's a particular scripture in the Bible 11:26 that we often read 11:28 but we don't use the word empty, 11:30 it's the wise man, Solomon, 11:32 what does he, what does he say about life? 11:34 That's so interesting because when we think about Solomon, 11:37 wow, what a great place to be, 11:38 you know, the richest king that ever lived... 11:41 Had everything. Sure. 11:42 Prosperity, popularity, 11:45 I mean, supposedly he had it all 11:48 and yet when he writes his memoir 11:51 at the very end, 11:53 vanity, vanity, it is all vanity. 11:56 And vanity translates to empty, 11:59 and so as I was reading 12:00 through that book of Ecclesiastics 12:03 again, I just, I just really saw 12:05 that the title of the book should be empty 12:08 because that's where Solomon was as well 12:11 and that's where we are. 12:12 I mean, we can have full nurseries, 12:14 we can have full bedrooms, 12:16 we can have a full bank account but without God in our lives, 12:20 we still come up empty 12:22 and that, that God shaped designed place in our heart, 12:29 no one else can fill but Him and it takes... 12:33 it took me so long to learn that, so long... 12:37 but back to the story 12:40 just after seven months of pregnancy 12:43 going into the hospital and... 12:46 Donna, that must have been difficult, 12:48 seven months feeling the baby... 12:50 It's very, very difficult. Kicking, you know. 12:53 Yes, and my heart just aches for the many women today 12:57 who experience this 12:59 and my heart also aches for the many men 13:02 because they go through it as well not in a physical sense 13:05 but in an emotional sense, 13:07 and Rod and I had some really difficult times 13:11 getting through that emptiness and trying to understand. 13:17 But it was, there was really something 13:20 because like most, most girls in our day, 13:24 you know, you just, you just dream of that, 13:26 being that wife, being that mom, 13:29 giving childbirth 13:31 and all of these beautiful things 13:33 that God gave to us 13:35 and just to have it taken away in an instant is, 13:40 it is pretty devastating 13:43 and there are many, many, many women in church today, 13:47 the ones that make it back to church. 13:50 There are many who don't and we look at them 13:53 and we just consider them like prodigals. 13:58 The shame is so great. 14:00 They don't come back 14:02 and I'm glad for those who do but there's many who don't, 14:07 and that's what I want to bring awareness up. 14:11 It is a silent shame that's going on in our churches 14:14 and no one's addressing it, 14:16 you know, the pain is deep but I was there, you know, 14:20 and I can just remember the doctor said, 14:24 "Look, we've lost the heartbeat." 14:27 And those words were just very crushing 14:31 and then he said we need to do a DNC 14:34 and following the DNC the hemorrhaging didn't stop. 14:39 And so then I can remember so clearly, 14:43 I heard his voice say 14:47 we will have to do a hysterectomy 14:48 in order to save her 14:50 and at that point I'm just crying out to God, 14:54 I said, you know, if you would just pass by, 14:57 I just want to touch the hem of your garment, 15:00 you know, you're the rock that's higher than I, 15:04 where are you? 15:06 I need thee every hour, 15:07 you know, the songs, everything that you, 15:09 that you learned begins to come through your mind 15:13 and now you're depending on it. 15:15 I want to address that for a moment, 15:16 because a lot of times I've heard this, 15:18 we get emails from people, we get phone calls, 15:21 sometimes people send us messages through 3ABN 15:26 or even to the church with letters and they say, 15:30 "I need someone to answer this question: 15:32 Where was God, when I needed Him the most?" 15:36 And we're gonna talk about that in just a moment 15:38 because this story, and I could, 15:41 to some degree where we are, we're related in some sense 15:46 because we've been married going on more than 30 years 15:49 I just generally generalize that, 15:53 and we are without children. 15:54 Without children not by choice. Not by choice. 15:57 So that's a, 15:58 that's an empty place in our lives. 16:00 And it was a long time when we lived out West, 16:04 you know, we went through all the processes of, 16:06 okay, is it possible, can we have a child, 16:09 you know, you do 16:10 all the medical research and everything 16:12 and you come to the realization one day, 16:13 well, it's just not gonna happen 16:15 and you wonder what, what plan does God have 16:18 because as we know with the story, 16:21 God doesn't just, if a door closes, 16:25 at some point you choose not to try to kick it down 16:27 because it's just not gonna open 16:29 and you wonder what plan B can God have 16:32 that could even facilitate or get close to plan A 16:35 and so you're walking through this as a young girl, 16:37 you guys have all the future before you, 16:40 you're excited about going to the future 16:42 with your children 16:43 and then you're leaving the hospital empty. 16:45 Tell us what was that like 16:47 because there are people that are there right now. 16:49 Absolutely, absolutely. 16:51 And I just want to, 16:53 as a friend I just want to say to you, 16:57 I just want to embrace both of you 16:59 because I know what it's like to desire and not have 17:04 and yet I see what God has done in your lives, 17:07 I mean, you can see purpose through the years 17:10 but not at the moment, walking out of the hospital, 17:14 it's immediately 17:16 and this is how the enemy works, 17:18 immediately he begins to whisper in your ear 17:22 to join his POW camp. 17:25 Yeah. 17:27 And when we are, 17:28 when we are victims of tragedies 17:30 and it happens to everyone on planet earth, 17:34 victims of tragedy, 17:35 when we are those victims that's when he comes in 17:39 like a, like lightning 17:42 and he invites you to his POW camp. 17:46 You might as well join the other prisoners 17:48 and here's the thing about that camp 17:50 you think about it. 17:52 It's more comfortable there 17:55 than it is to stand up and say no. 17:59 I'm going to take hold of the hand of faith. 18:02 It's more comfortable to just go into the POW camp, 18:06 take on the victim card 18:08 and live the rest of your life like that. 18:10 And that's the, that's where the enemy wants us to be 18:15 and I'll tell you it takes, it's a battle, 18:18 it's a war inside to say, "I'm not coming into your camp 18:23 because I know that the IV 18:26 that you pumped through the veins 18:28 is an IV of just self-pity. 18:33 And when we're caught in that self-pity, 18:36 we are indeed a prisoner of war and it is there 18:40 that we could no longer do ministry. 18:43 And then when the enemy can interfere 18:47 with the God-given ministerial gifts 18:50 that God has for every one of us, 18:51 when the enemy can bring that to a stop 18:55 look what he's won. 18:56 Um, I never heard that way before POW, wow. 19:00 And that's why I think it's just so important 19:02 that this silent shame 19:04 we began to help each other with it. 19:09 So we lost, we lost that baby and... 19:14 Was your husband in dental school at the time? 19:17 He was not at the time. 19:20 We lost the baby and it was at that point 19:22 he was in business and we just decided 19:26 I needed to get out of the town we were in. 19:29 That's when we moved 19:30 out of Placerville, Camino, California 19:33 and Rod went back to school 19:35 and that's when his education and dentistry 19:39 began to take that turn. 19:42 Up until then, that wasn't on the radar at all. 19:45 Oh, so out of that a new direction came. 19:48 Absolutely. Okay. 19:50 Absolutely, 19:51 and I just want to be sensitive to those of you 19:57 who may be really listening to what it means to be empty, 20:01 maybe you're going through this right now. 20:03 I just want to share with you 20:05 I can remember driving down the road 20:06 and seeing a billboard about diapers 20:09 and just falling apart. 20:11 I can remember coming up to a stop sign 20:15 and maybe there's a mother with a stroller there 20:17 and just falling apart. 20:19 So if you're going through that, 20:20 I want you to stay with us 20:22 because we're going to help you with some real Bible principles 20:26 that will help get you through this. 20:28 Wow, thank you for doing that. 20:29 Yes, so we went through this with, with, we lost this baby 20:34 and we just prayed for seven years 20:37 that God would fill the emptiness. 20:41 And during those seven years, I experienced a very silent God 20:47 and I would pray, I would sing, 20:50 and I would do everything I could to hear Him 20:54 and He was silent. 20:56 He was silent during those years to me 20:59 and this is another point 21:01 that I really just want every pastor 21:04 and every church leader to understand 21:07 is I can remember going to church 21:10 and I needed it, I needed it so badly 21:13 because I could not praise God the way I once did. 21:18 I needed to hear someone else do it. 21:22 And I can remember going in 21:23 and sitting down and I would say, 21:25 okay, Rod, let's find a place where there's no children 21:29 and we would go and we would sit down 21:31 and sure enough a little family would come along innocently 21:34 and the tears were just shaming, 21:38 I would just start falling apart, 21:40 get up, leave, and I left church so many times 21:44 because I couldn't stay 21:46 and I finally got to the point where it was like, Rod, 21:48 let's go late, let's go really late 21:51 and sit by the closest to the escape door. 21:54 So we can escape 21:56 when the tears began to shame you again 21:58 because it happens. 22:00 And I can tell you God 22:02 just really brought us through that, 22:03 but those years of suffering 22:07 the church we went to was a very, very large church. 22:10 I'm just gonna share it, 22:11 it was the Loma Linda University Church. 22:12 Oh, yeah. Wow, that is large. 22:14 And that monster church has a monster heart 22:18 because those people just loved us. 22:21 They just took us in and they loved us 22:23 and at the end of seven years 22:26 we got a call one day and said, "Hey, come. 22:29 We have a baby for you." 22:31 And Rod and I were ecstatic, 22:33 I mean, he was now in dental school 22:35 and we were just really just so thrilled 22:39 and we went and picked up 22:41 that little baby at the hospital 22:43 and I'll tell you, 22:45 she was everything a little girl. 22:47 Ah, we built the nursery, we had everything built out 22:51 and we had her for ten weeks 22:54 and the birth mother rescinded on her decision 22:58 and she took the baby back. 23:00 Wow, double empty. 23:01 And, yeah, double empty and then, 23:05 you know, there was the hysterectomy 23:06 so that was a third. 23:07 We would never have a child. 23:10 And what that taught me is there are things about life 23:16 that we can never fix, that we can never do, 23:19 only God can do it for us. 23:22 And I can tell you everybody began talking to me 23:26 about getting on an adoption list 23:29 and I really struggled with that 23:31 because it was like, okay, so here's the catalog, 23:33 we're gonna open it up, 23:35 you know, choose a baby, 23:36 and I'm like it just can't be, it can't be, you know. 23:41 A family is a miracle and I can remember 23:46 just turning to the story of Hannah 23:49 and when I read that story afresh, 23:52 you know, God, if You give me a child 23:54 I vow to you, I will give that child back. 23:58 And it's interesting 23:59 because her story goes on to tell us 24:01 that she had five children after Samuel, okay, 24:04 she had five more and that's what God does. 24:07 Yes, amen. Absolutely. 24:09 And so we lost that child and then it was, 24:13 it was another two years 24:16 and we got a call and they said, 24:18 "Donna, you don't know us 24:19 but we've heard about your situation 24:23 and we have a baby for you," 24:25 and it's interesting how far God brings us 24:28 during our painful times because the response was, 24:31 well, you know, that's... 24:32 I really appreciate the call. 24:35 We need to pray about this a little bit. 24:37 A little bit more cautious. Yeah. 24:38 Because now you had a broken place, 24:40 you had an empty place number two, 24:42 have a third empty place no chance of having a child. 24:44 Right. 24:46 This baby just been rescinded and you're thinking, 24:48 okay, we need to be a lot more cautious 24:51 because I can't handle 24:53 a whole lot more broken places or more empty experiences. 24:56 Absolutely. 24:58 And there is a chapter in here called, "Holding on" 24:59 would that be a part of this experience, 25:01 you're just holding on through the, 25:03 through the silence of God and I want to make this point 25:06 because, you know, a lot of times 25:07 we think the silence of God means the absence of God, 25:11 but it doesn't mean the absence of God. 25:12 Not at all. 25:13 Because He said I'll never leave you, 25:15 nor forsake you, 25:16 and even Jesus had the silence of His Father, 25:18 but it didn't equal the absence of His Father, 25:20 so I'm saying that 25:22 because there is somebody 25:23 watching or listening to the program 25:24 that might say, "That's right, God was silent" 25:26 but I'm telling you "He's not absent." 25:29 And like a tree that takes time to grow, 25:32 you know, I heard a story, 25:33 I never told you about the story, 25:35 I heard the story, 25:36 I don't remember where, but somebody wanted, 25:38 they wanted a swing in their backyard, 25:40 to swing from their tree but they had no tree. 25:44 And the father planted the tree when they moved into the house, 25:48 well, it was 14 years later 25:49 that he was able to build a tree swing for his daughter. 25:53 It took 14 years 25:55 before the tree was strong enough 25:57 for her to swing on it and sometimes it takes time. 25:59 It does, it does. 26:01 And in that chapter, Pastor John, 26:03 I'm so glad that you brought that up 26:04 because though God was silent with words, 26:08 He began to embrace me 26:10 and I sensed His embrace 26:13 and I really believe that that came at the moment 26:16 when I had my own garden of Gethsemane experience. 26:20 When you walk into that garden and you look back on the pain 26:25 and you know what you've been through, 26:27 and you know what you want, you know what you want, 26:30 you want that perfect family over here. 26:33 You know what you want and you walk in and you say, 26:36 "Not my will but Your will be done." 26:39 Wow. 26:40 So, God, 26:42 if my life is to be a life without children 26:45 then may it glorify You. 26:47 If my life is to have children, may it glorify You, 26:50 and just giving up, 26:53 really giving up on your own desires, 26:57 and that's what we did, you know, 26:58 and it just reminds me of the story 27:02 and throughout the book Empty, 27:05 it was just really important to me 27:06 to identify with the different people 27:09 throughout the Bible 27:10 that went through empty experiences. 27:11 Yes, yes. 27:13 And the story about holding on 27:15 is really when Jesus is on the Sea of Galilee, 27:19 He's there with 5000 people, 27:21 they've been there, they're sitting on rocks, 27:23 they're sitting on ground, but they get to hear Him. 27:26 And there they are there all day long. 27:28 At the end of the day, He looks at the disciples, 27:30 "Hey, you know, these people are hungry, 27:32 what are we gonna do for dinner" 27:34 and I mean, you know, 27:35 it's like well there's, there's, 27:36 you know, we can't order out, 27:38 there's no drive through, there's no special delivery, 27:40 you know, and yet He says what are we going to do 27:43 and though they gave up, 27:45 Jesus knew exactly what He was going to do. 27:47 Yes, He did. 27:49 Not only did He feed them but get this, 27:51 He looked at the disciples and He said, 27:52 now, I want you to go pick up the fragments, 27:55 make sure nothing is wasted. 27:57 Wow. 27:59 And I really believe 28:00 when we're going through empty times in our lives, 28:03 God is not asking us to push it under the rug 28:05 and pretend like it's not there. 28:07 He is saying, "gather the fragments, 28:09 I will waste nothing to build and grow you." 28:13 Amen. That's right. 28:14 And that's what He does. 28:16 Twelve baskets of fragments from an empty moment. 28:19 I know, isn't it incredible? 28:20 That's an amazing story 28:23 and so what you're saying then is, 28:25 and this something you mentioned before 28:27 and I want to, I want to plug it in right here, 28:28 I think I want to use it again before the program ends. 28:31 "When nothing is left, God can work" 28:34 that's a statement you made, 28:35 tell us about when nothing is left 28:37 because no child, the mother rescinded, 28:41 then you have the hysterectomy 28:43 and then, then you're now at this place 28:46 where you get this phone call, 28:47 you're like intrepidation sets in. 28:50 Sure, sure. 28:51 You know, it was just... 28:54 It was just before Christmas. 28:57 And Rod and I, we just, 28:58 we were just holding back to our emotions. 29:01 We were really asking God, "Is this Your plan? 29:04 Is this what You want us to do?" 29:06 And we got the call on New Year's Eve 29:09 and I said, you know, 29:10 the birth mother is on her way to the hospital, 29:14 will you meet her there. 29:16 We said, "Yeah, we'll go. 29:17 Were you excited? We'll go.' 29:18 We were excited but it was, it was all in, 29:21 it was all very cautious. 29:22 It really was. 29:24 And I can remember walking into the hospital right 29:26 when Tanya was being transferred 29:28 from the delivery room to the nursery 29:30 and, you know, 29:32 it takes all of two seconds to fall in love. 29:34 Wow. 29:36 I fell in love with that little girl 29:37 and I'll tell you she's, she's a woman of God today. 29:41 She is incredible. We met her. 29:43 Yes, she is. She's a farmer. 29:45 I just love that about her. 29:46 She is herself 29:48 and she's just really a very, very special little girl. 29:52 And Rod and I were just so thrilled, 29:54 we just thanked God over and over, over and over. 29:58 And mother never came back? No. 30:00 And then the craziest thing happened. 30:03 We were coming home from church 30:05 and this doctor followed us home. 30:11 And we pulled in our drive, he pulled in behind us. 30:13 He said, "Rod and Donna, I've been looking for you. 30:16 I have a baby for you." 30:18 Wait a minute. Number two. 30:19 And now you got the second. Yes. 30:20 The second. Yes, yes. 30:22 And we held up Tanya and we said we have a baby. 30:24 She was already a baby. 30:26 And he said, "No, you need two." 30:29 And we said wow, you know, and it's, 30:32 it's like God said I want you to enlarge your tent. 30:37 Reset the stakes, 30:38 don't hold anything back from your imagination. 30:42 God has bigger plans than what we do. 30:45 And I'm not. 30:48 At that point in life we had no idea 30:50 if we would live our whole life without children or not 30:53 and I can tell you, 30:56 we were comfortable with whatever God chose, 30:59 and I just really want to share that 31:00 because not everyone 31:03 who prays for a child has a child. 31:06 Exactly. Right. 31:08 And it's not because God isn't listening, 31:11 it's because God has a different path for that life 31:14 and just truly understanding that 31:17 when you give your life to God, 31:19 everything that happens to you is ordained by Him. 31:24 And to really, really believe 31:26 that is where you will find your peace 31:30 and if I had four bedrooms 31:33 but I didn't have God, I still would have been empty. 31:36 Wow, there's a chapter you have called 31:38 "Hope delivered, " 31:41 "Hope delivered" 31:42 I mean, I'm hearing about the delivery of this baby 31:44 and you get a phone call, there's another one. 31:46 Another. Oh my goodness. 31:47 A little boy or girl? 31:49 Well, we have Tyler and Tania, 31:51 we're raising them, we're so excited. 31:53 So you have two kids. 31:54 We've two and they're three, they're three months apart. 31:56 Oh my... Boy and a girl now. 31:58 Boom, boom just like that. 32:00 And it was Christmas time and I had been in bed with them 32:04 and I had just finished reading the Christmas story 32:06 and, you know, Tanya says, 32:08 "Well, mommy, were we born in a barn" 32:10 and I said no, no, no, no, honey, 32:13 you know, and it was at that moment 32:15 I told them that they were adopted 32:17 and, you know, you never know when the right time is 32:20 and you can try to orchestrate it or whatever 32:22 but it doesn't really fit until that moment is right 32:25 and it was right and I shared with them, 32:28 you know, that they were born out of love 32:31 and that they have a very special place. 32:34 How did they take it? 32:36 Excited. Very excited. 32:38 They're five years old, 32:40 you know, they only know who their mom and dad are. 32:43 That's right. 32:44 And I turned off the light, left the room, 32:47 and I was right at the top of the steps 32:49 and I could hear them mumbling and I snuck back over. 32:53 Those two little ones were on their knees beside their bed 32:57 and there they were praying for a baby brother. 33:02 And now I'm in big trouble, you know. 33:06 Because I told them, you know, how God answers prayer 33:10 and now they're praying with giant faith. 33:15 They're right at the very throne of God 33:19 asking for a baby brother. 33:21 I want to throw a little twist into this for a moment here 33:24 because I'm looking at the, you know, the disappointment, 33:28 then hope delivered, the silence of God. 33:31 Now you have two children. 33:35 I'll use a phrase that almost sounds like a cliche, 33:38 was there any point that you were waiting to exhale? 33:42 I mean, you know, because, you know, you hold, 33:45 you're talking about holding your breath. 33:47 Intrepidation going to the hospital 33:49 but the moment you saw Tanya, 33:50 you fell in love with her right away. 33:52 Did falling in love with her 33:54 make it easier to accept the second child? 33:59 It made it, 34:01 I just saw a bigger picture of God. 34:04 I think so many times our picture of God is so small, 34:07 it really is, 34:09 but when He begins to work in our life personally, 34:12 He becomes this God of the universe, 34:15 He can do anything 34:18 and without Him we can do nothing. 34:23 So it was, 34:24 it was just months after Tyler and Tanya 34:28 began praying for a baby brother 34:30 that we got this phone call. 34:33 An answered prayer. And it was oh-oh. 34:35 It was a oh-oh moment, yeah and the physician said, 34:38 "Donna, I need you to get Rod on the other line too, 34:41 I need to talk to both of you," 34:42 so I knew there was something serious coming on 34:45 and Rod got on the other line, 34:47 he said look I wasn't supposed to be on call last night 34:49 someone else in the group was. 34:52 The call came in and I told the dispatcher, 34:54 I'm not on call get someone else, 34:57 I tried to go back to sleep I couldn't, 34:58 and it was at that time I went into the hospital 35:01 I walked in and delivered a baby, 35:05 and the birth mother looked up and said, 35:08 "Do you know of anyone that would take this baby?" 35:11 And he said, "I sure do." 35:15 And, you know, he too 35:17 where he is part of the church that we went to 35:19 and I just think it's so important 35:21 to share your pain and your emptiness 35:26 with those members of your church family 35:29 because God will use them to orchestrate your life 35:35 and he is this physician 35:38 and he delivered little Brockton, 35:40 and Rod and I, and Tyler and Tania, 35:43 we rushed to the hospital and there was Brock, 35:47 such a perfect sweet little baby boy. 35:50 He is the really outgoing one, right? 35:53 He is very outgoing. 35:54 He's a clone of Rod, that's what he is. 35:57 So he's just a real, real sweetheart. 36:00 Now, Brock is the younger one? 36:02 Brock would be the third one. 36:04 Right the taller one? No. 36:05 The middle, middle one. I'm not there yet. 36:08 Okay. Brock is the middle one. 36:10 He is the middle one but again, 36:11 you know, our life is so foreword, 36:13 so thankful, we're so happy. 36:16 That's right. 36:18 And 15 months later God wasn't done. 36:24 And we get another phone call 36:26 and it was just a few months 36:27 after that we brought Bryce home. 36:29 Bryce, that's the one. 36:31 And there's our three sons and our one daughter 36:34 and God just, He made us a family, 36:38 you know, there's no blood relationship 36:41 but, wow, they call me they say 36:43 we're brothers from a different mother, 36:45 you know, and the boys have a really great time with it 36:48 and we're real family. 36:51 And Friday nights at your house is so special, isn't it? 36:54 It is. 36:55 Friday night has always been family night 36:58 and this comes from 36:59 my husband's side of the family. 37:01 It's always Mexican food on Friday night 37:04 and that's, that's very special 37:06 and we just enjoy it so much together. 37:09 We had a chance to sit down and enjoy that Mexican food, 37:12 it's not just basic Mexican food, 37:13 I mean, it's just... 37:14 You guys really go all out 37:16 and when we sat at the nice big table, 37:20 warm atmosphere, 37:22 I mean, we could see the as you walked through the... 37:24 All her children, grandchildren. 37:26 Go ahead, hon. That's right. 37:28 As you walk through the chronology 37:29 of everybody sitting at the table 37:31 and you think they all are 37:34 totally comfortable with each other. 37:37 They grew up in... 37:39 And I want to add this 37:40 because I had some brought over. 37:42 Each of us has a similar story in some sense. 37:44 How old were you when your dad passed away? 37:45 I was three so it was empty for me also 37:48 when I lost my dad of a heart attack 37:52 and my mother was left to raise eight of us, 37:55 all on her own, one mother one father, 37:57 eight of us and then you, honey. 37:59 Yeah, I was left at a babysitter three months old 38:02 with my sister at three years old, 38:04 not even knowing my mom and dad were not on the scene. 38:07 And your story, John, is just so amazing. 38:12 You could have been 38:14 stuck in that empty place your whole life 38:17 but you reached out, you reached beyond that, 38:19 you refused to be in the POW camp 38:24 and that's what it takes, you know, 38:26 as Christians we need to be wise, 38:28 we need to stand up and say, 38:31 God has given me the authority 38:33 to trample on scorpions and serpents. 38:37 You have no power over me, Satan. 38:40 And I'm out of here, 38:41 I'm not gonna be a part of your camp. 38:44 And to step out of that POW camp, 38:46 I mean, my story is about a lost child, 38:49 your story is about a lost father, 38:50 your story is about lost parents, 38:52 we all go through these seasons of loss 38:57 and it reminds me of the story of Hagar, 38:59 I mean, think about... 39:01 Yes, you have a chapter in here, 39:02 you talk, you talk about it. 39:04 I do, I do and you think about Abraham, 39:06 you know, packing her with a little knapsack of food 39:09 and one bottle of water and so long 39:12 and out to the desert she goes. 39:15 And it's interesting 39:16 because just as God counts every sand in the desert, 39:21 every little piece of sand grain, 39:25 He counts every tear and He saw the tears of Hagar 39:30 and it was like, you know what, 39:31 man gave you a bottle of water but I'm gonna give you a well. 39:34 That's right. Amen. I like that. 39:37 I'm gonna give you a well. 39:38 And that's how it was, I mean, 39:40 like maybe I could have had a child, 39:42 but I couldn't have had these four. 39:43 That's right. Amen, and I like that. 39:45 No way. Not those. 39:47 They were chosen. They really were. 39:50 And those are the stories that I believe, 39:54 God put those stories in the Word, 39:57 so that we could understand what to do 40:00 when we're going through seasons of emptiness 40:03 and, you know, 40:04 just walking through the streets of Jerusalem 40:07 and I can remember when we were there, 40:09 were you guys there on that trip? 40:10 We didn't go to that one. 40:12 Took a trip through, 40:13 I can remember just being down the Via Dolorosa, 40:16 you know it's changed since Jesus was there 40:18 but, but you still, you still have a good feel 40:21 of what was going on and I could envision that woman 40:25 just reaching as He's passing, 40:29 if I can just touch the hem of His garment 40:33 and you think about it, 40:36 she was the only one that was healed that day. 40:39 And there were a lot of people there. 40:40 Yeah. 40:42 Because she was reaching for Him. 40:44 You made a point here, 40:45 empty can be the best place 40:46 for one who is searching for fullness of life. 40:51 Tell us about how important it is to empty ourselves, 40:55 to empty ourselves 40:57 because you talked about the different kinds of empty. 40:59 Some people, 41:00 I think the way you were saying, 41:02 we talked about this 41:03 and we're so comfortable with you, Donna, 41:05 we're letting you tell your story 41:07 but there's somebody who may say, 41:10 you know, I have children but my life is still empty. 41:14 Somebody may say, I just got a promotion 41:16 just hit that six figure level of life, 41:19 and why do I feel so empty? 41:22 Talk about why that emptiness is there for people 41:24 that may be in different categories? 41:25 Sure, and I would, 41:27 I would take you right back to this book 41:31 because when we have the wealthiest, 41:34 the greatest king of Israel who had it all, 41:38 to say I have nothing and I feel empty, 41:41 we need to really take note. 41:43 We need to especially 41:45 as Christians or pre-Christians, 41:47 we need to take a step back and say why is, 41:51 why is he calling his life empty, 41:53 it's because without God, it is so empty. 41:57 There's nothing to live for. 41:59 And if I had 10 children but I didn't have God, 42:03 what could I give them. 42:04 Right. 42:05 Really what could I give them? I would have nothing to offer. 42:10 And so I think that's where we begin to understand 42:16 that God deals with us in terms of eternity 42:21 and that six figure income, 42:23 it has nothing to do with eternity. 42:25 That's right. Nothing. 42:27 However when we lose it all and we're totally empty, 42:31 it is then that we say, "God, I can't do this, 42:36 I couldn't, I couldn't make a family happen, 42:39 there's nothing I could do about it." 42:40 That's right. Good point. 42:42 Yeah, but God could. Yes. 42:44 And when we come to those places, 42:47 that's when we will feel the fullness 42:50 that we can feel here on this earth. 42:53 Everything's done in the, you know, the eyes of eternity. 42:57 That's right. 42:59 Now, these children what in life they have? 43:02 Tell us about them, what are they today? 43:05 Well, we have two little granddaughters 43:07 that we absolutely adore 43:09 and our oldest son Tyler and his beautiful wife, Kate, 43:14 they live in Britain Harbor, Michigan 43:17 and he has his MBA 43:20 and he's working on a couple of hospitals and clinics there 43:24 and then our son Brockton 43:26 and his beautiful little wife Brooke 43:28 that they need a baby right away, you know, 43:32 but they don't have one yet. 43:35 He just finished as a dentist and he's practicing in Peoria 43:41 but they'll be moving on to Michigan, I'm sure. 43:43 And then our son Bryce, 43:47 he is at home and he is still in school 43:51 and of course our daughter, Tanya 43:52 I talked about her earlier she's a farmer 43:55 and she takes care of me very much 43:58 with all sorts of good herbs 44:00 and all the things I'm supposed to eat. 44:01 Wow. 44:03 And you have a good relationship with all of them, 44:04 but I love the relationship with Tanya, 44:06 your daughter, as I, 44:08 when I see you mingle with her and you connect, 44:11 it's so beautiful to see 44:13 the mother-daughter relationship. 44:15 She is her own person and I just really love that, 44:19 but you know, I asked each of the kids 44:22 to write something about the book 44:24 and so each of them did an introduction 44:27 and what my emptiness, 44:30 what my and Rod's emptiness meant to them, 44:34 because without us being empty 44:35 they would have never been a part of our family. 44:38 And again when you, when you take a step back 44:40 and you just look at it, 44:41 look at how God is orchestrating, 44:45 all of these pieces, all of these fragments, 44:48 all of these empty bottles, 44:49 God is orchestrating all of it 44:52 so that we can grow for eternity 44:54 and live eternity with them. 44:56 I love it. 44:57 Now, Donna, we went through the rooms, 44:59 the bedrooms of your children 45:01 and you have on the wall what is it? 45:03 Something they wrote when they were little? 45:06 Tell us about that? 45:07 Well, I wrote something about each of them 45:11 when they graduated from high school 45:13 because that's such a big turning point. 45:15 Pivotal point in life, yeah. 45:17 And just how God had worked in their lives, 45:20 and just to keep, I wanted it engraved 45:23 so it would be remembered, it wouldn't be thrown away 45:26 and I'm sure someday they'll have it, 45:29 they'll have that in their own homes. 45:32 And so it's the personal touch is not just in the relationship 45:35 you have with each of them when they come home 45:38 it's a, it's like an Ebenezer, I remember when. 45:41 It is. 45:42 And it's important for us to remember those moments, 45:44 you know, when people forget where they were, 45:50 they cannot appreciate where they are. 45:52 Exactly. 45:53 And as you look back on it, 45:55 we all have these moments in our lives, 45:56 I mean, everybody watching the program 45:57 or listen to the program in your car 45:59 wherever you may be. 46:01 You might have those moments where you say, 46:03 "I remember when," and then there are people 46:05 that are in the beginning of their journey, 46:07 you have something here called the Secrets for the Journey, 46:11 because the journey is not an easy one 46:13 and you might be in a journey right now 46:15 and you might say, wow, I can't wait till my day comes 46:17 when I could have the exhaling moment, 46:20 or the "Hope delivered" moment 46:22 that Donna's talking about today. 46:24 Talk about the secrets for the journey 46:26 because you know you are excited now, 46:28 you're happy, your children are fulfilled, 46:30 God is prospering you in a wonderful way 46:32 ministry wise and business wise, 46:35 but just talk about the secrets for the journey 46:37 because somebody is in the journey right now. 46:39 They are, and you know, I appreciate that, 46:41 and again I just, I just want to impress. 46:44 I don't know why God orchestrated our lives 46:47 the way He did, I don't know, I don't know. 46:50 I know that God works in many lives 46:53 regardless of what the outcome appears to be. 46:56 And I don't know why the secret things belong only to God, 47:01 I don't know why, 47:03 but when I think about making it through the journey 47:07 whether what you're hoping for is delivered to you or not, 47:12 making it through the journey 47:14 is all about giving up on yourself. 47:16 Wow, wow. 47:18 And when we give up on ourselves, 47:20 that goes back to that empty spot. 47:23 As long as we're full, we like that six figure number, 47:26 we like whatever, 47:28 as long as we feel full with that, 47:32 there's no reason, there's no place for God. 47:34 Well, Jesus said that to the religious leaders, 47:37 He said, "If you are sick I could heal you, 47:40 but since you say you're not sick 47:41 I can't do anything for you." 47:43 Wow, that's a significant point so you're saying, 47:46 when we recognize 47:47 that we have to get to the place of our need of God 47:51 before we can experience God, is that, 47:53 could I translate it that way? 47:55 Absolutely. 47:56 Thank you for putting those words together 47:57 much better than I did. 48:01 I believe Jesus Christ is coming back very soon. 48:04 Oh, yeah. Amen, that's right. 48:05 That's a fact. 48:07 And I really believe it's time that we as Christians 48:09 become very wise Christians, 48:12 what we do with our time, what we do with our resources, 48:16 what we do with our gifts, 48:17 it matters now more than it ever has before. 48:21 That's right. 48:22 And this is a little off the subject, 48:24 but it's all about eternity. 48:26 That's right. So let's go there. 48:28 You know, when I think about 48:30 what happened in that upper room 48:32 because we know as Christians, 48:36 we know what we need more than anything right now 48:38 is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. 48:42 And when I think about what those disciples did, 48:43 they went back to that upper room 48:45 and what did they do? 48:46 They studied scripture, they studied prophecy, 48:50 they looked back and they said what did we miss, 48:53 why didn't we really know the Son of God 48:56 who was eating with us, who was walking beside us, 48:59 who was with us all that time. 49:01 We didn't recognize Him 49:02 because we didn't understand prophecy, 49:05 so when I make the appeal that now is the time to study 49:09 and understand prophecy like never before, 49:13 now is the time 49:14 because what's about to happen 49:18 has everything to do with eternity. 49:20 Wow. That's our word, isn't it? 49:22 That's our phrase. Eternity in view. 49:25 We live with eternity in view. Yeah. 49:28 That's our theme for this year as a couple. 49:31 And, you know, our theme at our little church 49:34 is the year of the wind. 49:37 And just asking God for that Holy Spirit continuously 49:41 and I have to put this in there 49:42 our mission statement for our family is 49:46 "Heaven Together Whatever It Takes". 49:50 You guys, we've got to say this to those 49:53 who are part of the program, listening, 49:55 we were driving with Rod in the car 49:57 and Rod called his Donna. 50:00 He called you, her husband called her. 50:01 Oh, yeah, I love this. 50:03 He said, pass me my phone and I said, he said, 50:06 "Love of my life" he had on his phone, 50:08 and that we found you have on your phone love of my life 50:10 and we said, "Could we steal that?" 50:12 So we have in our phone. 50:14 So when I call Angie, I say, "Call of my life, Angela." 50:17 Call love of my life, John. 50:18 And the phone rings and we never forget. 50:22 And we have this other thing we do. 50:24 Together for ever. It's great. 50:28 So with the eternity in view, together forever, 50:30 God is just an amazing God and I know 50:32 as you listen to the program this book Empty, once again, 50:35 I would like to remind you, 50:37 we're gonna let you know in just a moment 50:38 how you can invite Donna, 50:40 and I'm sure she should be glad to bring Rod with her... 50:42 Oh, yeah. Wherever she's invited. 50:44 Donna is a gifted woman of God all by herself. 50:46 She's been all over Australia. 50:47 Been all over and traveled quite a bit and sure Australia. 50:49 Yeah. 50:51 And this book is one 50:53 that will be able to take you to those places 50:57 and what I like about this is Donna hasn't, 51:00 you didn't just spend the time telling your story 51:03 but you went down that path of people in scripture 51:07 that had these empty places in their lives 51:10 and what this says to me 51:12 is it's not unique for us to have empty places 51:15 because every one of us 51:18 without Jesus is an empty place. 51:20 Every one of us without God is an empty place. 51:27 The other thing, 51:29 spiritual prisoner of war camp overflows 51:31 with the heartbroken and the battered. 51:34 We're gonna take a brief break here for our news break 51:37 but on the other side of that 51:40 this is the address that you need 51:41 just before we go to our news break 51:42 so you can invite Donna Willey 51:45 to come and to share this wonderful story 51:47 of how to be filled when your life is empty. 51:52 If you would like to learn more about Donna Willey's ministry 51:55 or purchase one of her books, 51:56 you can visit her online at DonnaWilley.com. 52:00 That's DonnaWilley.com. |
Revised 2017-06-19