I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord let my word
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, friends, and
welcome to 3ABN Today.
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Thank you for tuning in
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for the first
time or tuning back.
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My name is John Lomacang
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and to my left
is my lovely bride,
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and what's your name bride?
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Angie Lomacang and I am so glad
even you have tuned in today.
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You're gonna be blessed today,
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I'm telling you that right now
so don't change that channel.
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That's right.
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Don't change, don't pick up
that remote and go anywhere,
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you stay tuned.
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We have a fascinating program.
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The topic is a
single word "Empty".
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Yes.
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And there are people watching
or listening to this program
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that may have at one point
or the other or even right now
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may be going
through an empty place,
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an empty season.
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You may be devoid of joy
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or trying to find
your place in the world.
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This program is for you
and you may know somebody
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that may be going
through a season of empty.
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Our guest today is
one we know very well
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and we're
excited for that reason
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to be the interviewees.
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Yeah.
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Or the interviewers and
we want you to stay tuned
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because the Lord has
chosen this hour to be the time
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where the empty places
of your life can be filled
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and you can find lasting meaning
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as it is centered on Christ,
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you know, whenever you tune in.
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We also want to
thank you for your prayers
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and your financial
support of this network
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as we continue
going and growing,
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getting ready for
the coming of the Lord.
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Honey, we have some music today
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and one person we know very well
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is gonna be giving our music.
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Valerie Shelton Walker
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is going to be singing the song,
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"His Strength is Perfect".
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I can do all things
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Through Christ
who gives me strength
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But sometimes I wonder
what He can do through me
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No great success to show
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There is no glory of my own
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Yet in my weakness
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He is there to let me know
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That His strength is perfect
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When our strength is gone
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He'll carry us
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When we can't carry on
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Raised in His power
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The weak become strong
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His strength is perfect
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His strength is perfect
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We can only know
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The power that He holds
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When we truly see
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How deep our weakness goes
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That's when His
strength in us begins
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When ours comes to an end
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He hears our humble cry
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And proves again
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That His strength is perfect
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When our strength is gone
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He'll carry us
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When we can't carry on
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Raised in His power the weak
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We become strong
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He makes us strong
His strength is perfect
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When our strength is gone
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He'll carry us
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When we can't carry on
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Raised in His power
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The weak, we become strong
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His strength is perfect
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His strength is perfect
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His strength is perfect
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His strength is perfect
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Thank you, Valerie,
for that wonderful song.
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Was that nice? Yes.
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And that song, honey,
it fits into this program.
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Oh yeah, absolutely.
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When we, when
our strength is gone,
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His strength is perfect.
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Amen.
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Why don't you do the honors
of introducing our guest today?
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Oh, I'm delighted
to introduce our guest.
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Donna Willey.
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She and her husband,
they are wonderful people,
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Rod and Donna Willey.
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Welcome, Donna. Thank you.
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And you are from up
near Galesburg, Illinois.
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We are from the great
metropolis of Peoria, Illinois,
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so that's a, that's
a little north of here
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but it's been,
it's been a good life,
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it's been good
years living there.
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Rod and I both are lay
pastors of a lay driven church
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and you may recall
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we started this church
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in the waiting room
of our dental office
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some years ago
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and it's just
been a real blessing
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to see God work,
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to see His hand
move in different lives
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and different
ministries and just to see what,
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what He really
wants for each of us.
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But, you know,
the story begins way
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before that and I
can remember that,
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that cold day when I
walked out of the hospital.
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I was supposed to leave
with a little bundle in my arms
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and we left empty armed.
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We had no baby to
bring home and I just,
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that was such a
really hard time in our life
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and I really
see now looking back
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how God has used
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all those
fragmented pieces to put us
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where we are today
and so it's a great story
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and that's why I wrote
about it in my book "Empty"
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because I do see
it as the silent shame
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that happens in
our churches today.
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I was thinking
of the title "Empty"
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and the subtitle from
Despair to Deliverance.
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When you talked about
Empty, I had to ask the question
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how did you come
up with that title
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and it was interesting
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you mentioned a number
of different types of empty,
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talk about that?
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Well you know
emptiness occurs when we just,
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we can't describe
what's going on inside of us,
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any other way.
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Maybe it's an empty
bedroom, we had lost the spouse,
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maybe it's an
empty bank account,
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we're going
through financial problems,
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maybe it's just
empty self-worth,
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we don't feel
worthy to be where we are,
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and for me it
was an empty nursery
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so either way you know that,
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that emptiness is it
comes to all of us, doesn't it?
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At some point, we as
long as we're on planet earth,
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we will sustain loss and
during those times of loss,
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we feel very empty
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and I didn't
want to write about it
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because it just seems so sad
and yet the more people I meet
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and the more
people that email me
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of what they're going through,
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one out of every
four pregnancies today
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ends in death.
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Oh my...
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And the number of widows
throughout our country is huge.
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So emptiness is
a very real issue
00:10:03.30\00:10:06.84
and it's a spiritual issue,
00:10:06.87\00:10:09.10
and that's why I really felt
00:10:09.14\00:10:10.47
as though I
needed to write about it
00:10:10.51\00:10:12.87
and that's what this book is.
00:10:12.91\00:10:14.74
But now, as I
look at the title...
00:10:14.78\00:10:16.11
And foreword...
00:10:16.14\00:10:17.48
Yeah, we'll talk about that.
00:10:17.51\00:10:18.85
Who did the
foreword which is exciting?
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It is exciting
and you know I just,
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I just really
looking for the right person
00:10:22.58\00:10:24.62
that could associate with loss.
00:10:24.65\00:10:28.36
It was truly Dr. Ben Carson
and I asked him to foreword it
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because he has had
years of experience
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watching people, such as I,
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leave the
hospital with empty arms
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and they went to,
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you know, for a joyous
occasion and it turned,
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and it wasn't that
joyous when they left
00:10:48.31\00:10:51.15
and so I asked him
to write the foreword
00:10:51.18\00:10:53.01
and he did so,
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and I really appreciate
his thoughts in the book
00:10:54.42\00:10:57.22
and that too will be a blessing.
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You know, we had
a chance to sit down
00:11:01.06\00:11:02.39
in a more casual setting
00:11:02.42\00:11:04.39
when we were on our way
to the pastors' meeting,
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.39
not too long ago actually,
we stopped by and spent,
00:11:06.43\00:11:09.53
spent some time with you
and your husband and family
00:11:09.56\00:11:11.50
and got to know
you a little better,
00:11:11.53\00:11:13.57
you know, not, not
often do we get a chance
00:11:13.60\00:11:15.24
to sort of speak and I use
this loosely let our hair down
00:11:15.27\00:11:18.01
because my hair
is always sprayed.
00:11:18.04\00:11:20.54
But we had a chance to
sit down and talk with you
00:11:20.58\00:11:22.98
and when you talk
about the title "Empty,"
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there's a particular
scripture in the Bible
00:11:25.45\00:11:26.82
that we often read
00:11:26.85\00:11:28.32
but we don't use the word empty,
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it's the wise man, Solomon,
00:11:30.19\00:11:32.32
what does he, what
does he say about life?
00:11:32.35\00:11:34.26
That's so interesting because
when we think about Solomon,
00:11:34.29\00:11:37.53
wow, what a great place to be,
00:11:37.56\00:11:38.89
you know, the richest
king that ever lived...
00:11:38.93\00:11:41.00
Had everything. Sure.
00:11:41.03\00:11:42.66
Prosperity, popularity,
00:11:42.70\00:11:45.67
I mean, supposedly he had it all
00:11:45.70\00:11:48.74
and yet when he
writes his memoir
00:11:48.77\00:11:51.87
at the very end,
00:11:51.91\00:11:53.64
vanity, vanity,
it is all vanity.
00:11:53.68\00:11:56.04
And vanity translates to empty,
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and so as I was reading
00:11:59.05\00:12:00.38
through that
book of Ecclesiastics
00:12:00.42\00:12:03.72
again, I just, I just really saw
00:12:03.75\00:12:05.95
that the title of
the book should be empty
00:12:05.99\00:12:08.32
because that's
where Solomon was as well
00:12:08.36\00:12:11.23
and that's where we are.
00:12:11.26\00:12:12.59
I mean, we can
have full nurseries,
00:12:12.63\00:12:14.70
we can have full bedrooms,
00:12:14.73\00:12:16.06
we can have a full bank account
but without God in our lives,
00:12:16.10\00:12:20.80
we still come up empty
00:12:20.84\00:12:22.77
and that, that God shaped
designed place in our heart,
00:12:22.80\00:12:29.41
no one else can fill
but Him and it takes...
00:12:29.44\00:12:33.42
it took me so long to
learn that, so long...
00:12:33.45\00:12:37.75
but back to the story
00:12:37.79\00:12:40.26
just after seven
months of pregnancy
00:12:40.29\00:12:43.93
going into the hospital and...
00:12:43.96\00:12:46.83
Donna, that must
have been difficult,
00:12:46.86\00:12:48.73
seven months feeling the baby...
00:12:48.76\00:12:50.20
It's very, very
difficult. Kicking, you know.
00:12:50.23\00:12:53.34
Yes, and my heart just
aches for the many women today
00:12:53.37\00:12:57.94
who experience this
00:12:57.97\00:12:59.81
and my heart also
aches for the many men
00:12:59.84\00:13:02.31
because they go through it
as well not in a physical sense
00:13:02.34\00:13:05.65
but in an emotional sense,
00:13:05.68\00:13:07.22
and Rod and I had
some really difficult times
00:13:07.25\00:13:11.82
getting through that emptiness
and trying to understand.
00:13:11.85\00:13:17.53
But it was, there
was really something
00:13:17.56\00:13:20.03
because like most,
most girls in our day,
00:13:20.06\00:13:24.23
you know, you just,
you just dream of that,
00:13:24.27\00:13:26.80
being that wife, being that mom,
00:13:26.84\00:13:29.77
giving childbirth
00:13:29.80\00:13:31.31
and all of
these beautiful things
00:13:31.34\00:13:33.04
that God gave to us
00:13:33.07\00:13:35.84
and just to have it
taken away in an instant is,
00:13:35.88\00:13:40.78
it is pretty devastating
00:13:40.82\00:13:43.22
and there are many, many,
many women in church today,
00:13:43.25\00:13:47.72
the ones that
make it back to church.
00:13:47.76\00:13:50.26
There are many who
don't and we look at them
00:13:50.29\00:13:53.86
and we just
consider them like prodigals.
00:13:53.90\00:13:58.33
The shame is so great.
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.34
They don't come back
00:14:00.37\00:14:02.17
and I'm glad for those who
do but there's many who don't,
00:14:02.20\00:14:07.14
and that's what I
want to bring awareness up.
00:14:07.18\00:14:11.15
It is a silent shame
that's going on in our churches
00:14:11.18\00:14:14.68
and no one's addressing it,
00:14:14.72\00:14:16.82
you know, the pain is
deep but I was there, you know,
00:14:16.85\00:14:20.82
and I can just
remember the doctor said,
00:14:20.86\00:14:24.23
"Look, we've
lost the heartbeat."
00:14:24.26\00:14:27.36
And those words
were just very crushing
00:14:27.40\00:14:31.57
and then he said
we need to do a DNC
00:14:31.60\00:14:34.34
and following the DNC
the hemorrhaging didn't stop.
00:14:34.37\00:14:39.47
And so then I can
remember so clearly,
00:14:39.51\00:14:43.75
I heard his voice say
00:14:43.78\00:14:46.98
we will have to
do a hysterectomy
00:14:47.02\00:14:48.58
in order to save her
00:14:48.62\00:14:50.79
and at that point I'm
just crying out to God,
00:14:50.82\00:14:54.22
I said, you know, if
you would just pass by,
00:14:54.26\00:14:57.79
I just want to touch
the hem of your garment,
00:14:57.83\00:15:00.70
you know, you're the
rock that's higher than I,
00:15:00.73\00:15:04.27
where are you?
00:15:04.30\00:15:06.37
I need thee every hour,
00:15:06.40\00:15:07.74
you know, the
songs, everything that you,
00:15:07.77\00:15:09.67
that you learned begins
to come through your mind
00:15:09.70\00:15:13.48
and now you're depending on it.
00:15:13.51\00:15:15.44
I want to address
that for a moment,
00:15:15.48\00:15:16.81
because a lot of
times I've heard this,
00:15:16.85\00:15:18.38
we get emails from
people, we get phone calls,
00:15:18.41\00:15:21.42
sometimes people send
us messages through 3ABN
00:15:21.45\00:15:26.59
or even to the church
with letters and they say,
00:15:26.62\00:15:30.63
"I need someone to
answer this question:
00:15:30.66\00:15:32.63
Where was God, when
I needed Him the most?"
00:15:32.66\00:15:36.56
And we're gonna talk
about that in just a moment
00:15:36.60\00:15:38.43
because this story, and I could,
00:15:38.47\00:15:41.44
to some degree where we
are, we're related in some sense
00:15:41.47\00:15:46.71
because we've been married
going on more than 30 years
00:15:46.74\00:15:49.94
I just
generally generalize that,
00:15:49.98\00:15:53.08
and we are without children.
00:15:53.11\00:15:54.45
Without children not
by choice. Not by choice.
00:15:54.48\00:15:57.19
So that's a,
00:15:57.22\00:15:58.55
that's an empty
place in our lives.
00:15:58.59\00:16:00.36
And it was a long time
when we lived out West,
00:16:00.39\00:16:04.03
you know, we went
through all the processes of,
00:16:04.06\00:16:06.56
okay, is it
possible, can we have a child,
00:16:06.59\00:16:09.06
you know, you do
00:16:09.10\00:16:10.43
all the medical
research and everything
00:16:10.47\00:16:12.40
and you come to the
realization one day,
00:16:12.43\00:16:13.77
well, it's just not gonna happen
00:16:13.80\00:16:15.37
and you wonder what,
what plan does God have
00:16:15.40\00:16:18.04
because as we
know with the story,
00:16:18.07\00:16:21.14
God doesn't
just, if a door closes,
00:16:21.18\00:16:25.21
at some point you choose
not to try to kick it down
00:16:25.25\00:16:27.42
because it's just not gonna open
00:16:27.45\00:16:29.55
and you wonder
what plan B can God have
00:16:29.58\00:16:32.39
that could even facilitate
or get close to plan A
00:16:32.42\00:16:35.49
and so you're walking
through this as a young girl,
00:16:35.52\00:16:37.73
you guys have all
the future before you,
00:16:37.76\00:16:40.16
you're excited
about going to the future
00:16:40.20\00:16:42.43
with your children
00:16:42.46\00:16:43.80
and then you're
leaving the hospital empty.
00:16:43.83\00:16:45.93
Tell us what was that like
00:16:45.97\00:16:47.44
because there are people
that are there right now.
00:16:47.47\00:16:49.20
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:16:49.24\00:16:51.24
And I just want to,
00:16:51.27\00:16:53.11
as a friend I just
want to say to you,
00:16:53.14\00:16:57.31
I just want to
embrace both of you
00:16:57.35\00:16:59.35
because I know what it's
like to desire and not have
00:16:59.38\00:17:04.19
and yet I see what God
has done in your lives,
00:17:04.22\00:17:07.46
I mean, you can see
purpose through the years
00:17:07.49\00:17:10.93
but not at the moment,
walking out of the hospital,
00:17:10.96\00:17:14.46
it's immediately
00:17:14.50\00:17:16.56
and this is how the enemy works,
00:17:16.60\00:17:18.77
immediately he begins
to whisper in your ear
00:17:18.80\00:17:22.64
to join his POW camp.
00:17:22.67\00:17:25.61
Yeah.
00:17:25.64\00:17:27.14
And when we are,
00:17:27.18\00:17:28.51
when we are victims of tragedies
00:17:28.54\00:17:30.48
and it happens to
everyone on planet earth,
00:17:30.51\00:17:34.02
victims of tragedy,
00:17:34.05\00:17:35.95
when we are those
victims that's when he comes in
00:17:35.98\00:17:39.35
like a, like lightning
00:17:39.39\00:17:42.12
and he invites
you to his POW camp.
00:17:42.16\00:17:46.70
You might as well
join the other prisoners
00:17:46.73\00:17:48.93
and here's the
thing about that camp
00:17:48.96\00:17:50.43
you think about it.
00:17:50.47\00:17:52.87
It's more comfortable there
00:17:52.90\00:17:55.10
than it is to
stand up and say no.
00:17:55.14\00:17:59.17
I'm going to take
hold of the hand of faith.
00:17:59.21\00:18:02.88
It's more comfortable to
just go into the POW camp,
00:18:02.91\00:18:06.48
take on the victim card
00:18:06.51\00:18:08.48
and live the rest
of your life like that.
00:18:08.52\00:18:10.95
And that's the, that's
where the enemy wants us to be
00:18:10.99\00:18:15.32
and I'll tell you it
takes, it's a battle,
00:18:15.36\00:18:18.86
it's a war inside to say,
"I'm not coming into your camp
00:18:18.89\00:18:23.03
because I know that the IV
00:18:23.06\00:18:26.50
that you pumped
through the veins
00:18:26.53\00:18:28.20
is an IV of just self-pity.
00:18:28.24\00:18:33.71
And when we're
caught in that self-pity,
00:18:33.74\00:18:36.75
we are indeed a
prisoner of war and it is there
00:18:36.78\00:18:40.52
that we could no
longer do ministry.
00:18:40.55\00:18:43.69
And then when the
enemy can interfere
00:18:43.72\00:18:47.42
with the
God-given ministerial gifts
00:18:47.46\00:18:50.16
that God has
for every one of us,
00:18:50.19\00:18:51.89
when the enemy can
bring that to a stop
00:18:51.93\00:18:54.96
look what he's won.
00:18:55.00\00:18:56.56
Um, I never heard
that way before POW, wow.
00:18:56.60\00:19:00.37
And that's why I
think it's just so important
00:19:00.40\00:19:02.64
that this silent shame
00:19:02.67\00:19:04.84
we began to help
each other with it.
00:19:04.87\00:19:09.54
So we lost, we
lost that baby and...
00:19:09.58\00:19:14.42
Was your husband in
dental school at the time?
00:19:14.45\00:19:17.19
He was not at the time.
00:19:17.22\00:19:20.22
We lost the baby
and it was at that point
00:19:20.26\00:19:22.89
he was in business
and we just decided
00:19:22.92\00:19:26.56
I needed to get out
of the town we were in.
00:19:26.59\00:19:29.00
That's when we moved
00:19:29.03\00:19:30.37
out of
Placerville, Camino, California
00:19:30.40\00:19:33.64
and Rod went back to school
00:19:33.67\00:19:35.80
and that's when his
education and dentistry
00:19:35.84\00:19:39.47
began to take that turn.
00:19:39.51\00:19:42.54
Up until then, that
wasn't on the radar at all.
00:19:42.58\00:19:45.41
Oh, so out of that
a new direction came.
00:19:45.45\00:19:48.78
Absolutely. Okay.
00:19:48.82\00:19:50.15
Absolutely,
00:19:50.19\00:19:51.55
and I just want to be
sensitive to those of you
00:19:51.59\00:19:57.36
who may be really listening
to what it means to be empty,
00:19:57.39\00:20:01.33
maybe you're going
through this right now.
00:20:01.36\00:20:03.83
I just want to share with you
00:20:03.87\00:20:05.20
I can remember
driving down the road
00:20:05.23\00:20:06.87
and seeing a
billboard about diapers
00:20:06.90\00:20:09.80
and just falling apart.
00:20:09.84\00:20:11.87
I can remember
coming up to a stop sign
00:20:11.91\00:20:15.21
and maybe there's a
mother with a stroller there
00:20:15.24\00:20:17.65
and just falling apart.
00:20:17.68\00:20:19.41
So if you're going through that,
00:20:19.45\00:20:20.82
I want you to stay with us
00:20:20.85\00:20:22.18
because we're going to help you
with some real Bible principles
00:20:22.22\00:20:26.55
that will help
get you through this.
00:20:26.59\00:20:28.39
Wow, thank you for doing that.
00:20:28.42\00:20:29.76
Yes, so we went through this
with, with, we lost this baby
00:20:29.79\00:20:34.50
and we just
prayed for seven years
00:20:34.53\00:20:37.87
that God would
fill the emptiness.
00:20:37.90\00:20:41.20
And during those seven years,
I experienced a very silent God
00:20:41.24\00:20:47.38
and I would pray, I would sing,
00:20:47.41\00:20:50.25
and I would do
everything I could to hear Him
00:20:50.28\00:20:54.18
and He was silent.
00:20:54.22\00:20:56.35
He was silent
during those years to me
00:20:56.38\00:20:59.59
and this is another point
00:20:59.62\00:21:01.69
that I really
just want every pastor
00:21:01.72\00:21:04.26
and every church
leader to understand
00:21:04.29\00:21:07.86
is I can
remember going to church
00:21:07.90\00:21:10.43
and I needed it,
I needed it so badly
00:21:10.47\00:21:13.84
because I could not
praise God the way I once did.
00:21:13.87\00:21:18.77
I needed to hear
someone else do it.
00:21:18.81\00:21:22.44
And I can remember going in
00:21:22.48\00:21:23.81
and sitting
down and I would say,
00:21:23.85\00:21:25.31
okay, Rod, let's find a
place where there's no children
00:21:25.35\00:21:29.28
and we would go
and we would sit down
00:21:29.32\00:21:31.05
and sure enough a little family
would come along innocently
00:21:31.09\00:21:34.72
and the tears were just shaming,
00:21:34.76\00:21:38.26
I would just
start falling apart,
00:21:38.29\00:21:40.16
get up, leave, and I
left church so many times
00:21:40.20\00:21:43.97
because I couldn't stay
00:21:44.00\00:21:45.97
and I finally got to the
point where it was like, Rod,
00:21:46.00\00:21:48.80
let's go late,
let's go really late
00:21:48.84\00:21:51.51
and sit by the
closest to the escape door.
00:21:51.54\00:21:54.94
So we can escape
00:21:54.98\00:21:56.31
when the tears
began to shame you again
00:21:56.34\00:21:58.78
because it happens.
00:21:58.81\00:22:00.15
And I can tell you God
00:22:00.18\00:22:02.12
just really
brought us through that,
00:22:02.15\00:22:03.49
but those years of suffering
00:22:03.52\00:22:07.16
the church we went to was
a very, very large church.
00:22:07.19\00:22:10.09
I'm just gonna share it,
00:22:10.13\00:22:11.46
it was the Loma
Linda University Church.
00:22:11.49\00:22:12.83
Oh, yeah. Wow, that is large.
00:22:12.86\00:22:14.20
And that monster
church has a monster heart
00:22:14.23\00:22:18.13
because those
people just loved us.
00:22:18.17\00:22:21.10
They just took us
in and they loved us
00:22:21.14\00:22:23.91
and at the end of seven years
00:22:23.94\00:22:26.07
we got a call one
day and said, "Hey, come.
00:22:26.11\00:22:29.64
We have a baby for you."
00:22:29.68\00:22:31.88
And Rod and I were ecstatic,
00:22:31.91\00:22:33.95
I mean, he was
now in dental school
00:22:33.98\00:22:35.95
and we were just
really just so thrilled
00:22:35.98\00:22:39.29
and we went and picked up
00:22:39.32\00:22:41.79
that little baby at the hospital
00:22:41.82\00:22:43.76
and I'll tell you,
00:22:43.79\00:22:45.13
she was
everything a little girl.
00:22:45.16\00:22:47.83
Ah, we built the nursery,
we had everything built out
00:22:47.86\00:22:51.10
and we had her for ten weeks
00:22:51.13\00:22:54.30
and the birth mother
rescinded on her decision
00:22:54.34\00:22:58.71
and she took the baby back.
00:22:58.74\00:23:00.38
Wow, double empty.
00:23:00.41\00:23:01.74
And, yeah,
double empty and then,
00:23:01.78\00:23:04.98
you know, there
was the hysterectomy
00:23:05.01\00:23:06.41
so that was a third.
00:23:06.45\00:23:07.82
We would never have a child.
00:23:07.85\00:23:10.89
And what that taught me is
there are things about life
00:23:10.92\00:23:16.52
that we can never
fix, that we can never do,
00:23:16.56\00:23:19.69
only God can do it for us.
00:23:19.73\00:23:22.53
And I can tell you
everybody began talking to me
00:23:22.56\00:23:26.63
about getting
on an adoption list
00:23:26.67\00:23:29.70
and I really struggled with that
00:23:29.74\00:23:31.44
because it was like,
okay, so here's the catalog,
00:23:31.47\00:23:33.84
we're gonna open it up,
00:23:33.88\00:23:35.21
you know, choose a baby,
00:23:35.24\00:23:36.78
and I'm like it just
can't be, it can't be, you know.
00:23:36.81\00:23:41.38
A family is a
miracle and I can remember
00:23:41.42\00:23:46.19
just turning to
the story of Hannah
00:23:46.22\00:23:49.76
and when I read
that story afresh,
00:23:49.79\00:23:52.13
you know, God, if
You give me a child
00:23:52.16\00:23:54.83
I vow to you, I will
give that child back.
00:23:54.86\00:23:58.23
And it's interesting
00:23:58.27\00:23:59.60
because her story
goes on to tell us
00:23:59.63\00:24:01.07
that she had five
children after Samuel, okay,
00:24:01.10\00:24:04.11
she had five more
and that's what God does.
00:24:04.14\00:24:07.18
Yes, amen. Absolutely.
00:24:07.21\00:24:09.48
And so we lost that
child and then it was,
00:24:09.51\00:24:13.85
it was another two years
00:24:13.88\00:24:16.35
and we got a call and they said,
00:24:16.38\00:24:17.99
"Donna, you don't know us
00:24:18.02\00:24:19.95
but we've heard
about your situation
00:24:19.99\00:24:23.19
and we have a baby for you,"
00:24:23.22\00:24:25.39
and it's interesting
how far God brings us
00:24:25.43\00:24:28.16
during our painful times
because the response was,
00:24:28.20\00:24:31.57
well, you know, that's...
00:24:31.60\00:24:32.93
I really appreciate the call.
00:24:32.97\00:24:35.17
We need to pray
about this a little bit.
00:24:35.20\00:24:37.31
A little bit
more cautious. Yeah.
00:24:37.34\00:24:38.94
Because now you
had a broken place,
00:24:38.97\00:24:40.71
you had an empty
place number two,
00:24:40.74\00:24:42.14
have a third empty place
no chance of having a child.
00:24:42.18\00:24:44.88
Right.
00:24:44.91\00:24:46.25
This baby just been
rescinded and you're thinking,
00:24:46.28\00:24:48.78
okay, we need to
be a lot more cautious
00:24:48.82\00:24:51.55
because I can't handle
00:24:51.59\00:24:53.76
a whole lot more broken places
or more empty experiences.
00:24:53.79\00:24:56.62
Absolutely.
00:24:56.66\00:24:57.99
And there is a chapter
in here called, "Holding on"
00:24:58.03\00:24:59.36
would that be a
part of this experience,
00:24:59.39\00:25:01.93
you're just
holding on through the,
00:25:01.96\00:25:03.50
through the silence of God
and I want to make this point
00:25:03.53\00:25:06.13
because, you
know, a lot of times
00:25:06.17\00:25:07.64
we think the silence of
God means the absence of God,
00:25:07.67\00:25:10.97
but it doesn't
mean the absence of God.
00:25:11.01\00:25:12.34
Not at all.
00:25:12.37\00:25:13.71
Because He said
I'll never leave you,
00:25:13.74\00:25:15.08
nor forsake you,
00:25:15.11\00:25:16.44
and even Jesus had
the silence of His Father,
00:25:16.48\00:25:18.71
but it didn't equal
the absence of His Father,
00:25:18.75\00:25:20.82
so I'm saying that
00:25:20.85\00:25:22.18
because there is somebody
00:25:22.22\00:25:23.55
watching or
listening to the program
00:25:23.59\00:25:24.92
that might say,
"That's right, God was silent"
00:25:24.95\00:25:26.76
but I'm telling
you "He's not absent."
00:25:26.79\00:25:29.02
And like a tree
that takes time to grow,
00:25:29.06\00:25:32.29
you know, I heard a story,
00:25:32.33\00:25:33.66
I never told
you about the story,
00:25:33.70\00:25:35.03
I heard the story,
00:25:35.06\00:25:36.40
I don't remember
where, but somebody wanted,
00:25:36.43\00:25:38.77
they wanted a
swing in their backyard,
00:25:38.80\00:25:40.50
to swing from their
tree but they had no tree.
00:25:40.54\00:25:43.97
And the father planted the tree
when they moved into the house,
00:25:44.01\00:25:48.14
well, it was 14 years later
00:25:48.18\00:25:49.51
that he was able to build a
tree swing for his daughter.
00:25:49.54\00:25:53.52
It took 14 years
00:25:53.55\00:25:55.05
before the tree
was strong enough
00:25:55.08\00:25:56.99
for her to swing on it
and sometimes it takes time.
00:25:57.02\00:25:59.75
It does, it does.
00:25:59.79\00:26:01.12
And in that
chapter, Pastor John,
00:26:01.16\00:26:03.43
I'm so glad that
you brought that up
00:26:03.46\00:26:04.79
because though God
was silent with words,
00:26:04.83\00:26:08.53
He began to embrace me
00:26:08.56\00:26:10.90
and I sensed His embrace
00:26:10.93\00:26:13.54
and I really believe
that that came at the moment
00:26:13.57\00:26:16.57
when I had my own garden
of Gethsemane experience.
00:26:16.60\00:26:20.34
When you walk into that garden
and you look back on the pain
00:26:20.38\00:26:25.61
and you know what
you've been through,
00:26:25.65\00:26:27.65
and you know what you
want, you know what you want,
00:26:27.68\00:26:30.92
you want that
perfect family over here.
00:26:30.95\00:26:33.36
You know what you want
and you walk in and you say,
00:26:33.39\00:26:36.49
"Not my will but
Your will be done."
00:26:36.52\00:26:39.29
Wow.
00:26:39.33\00:26:40.66
So, God,
00:26:40.70\00:26:42.16
if my life is to be
a life without children
00:26:42.20\00:26:45.73
then may it glorify You.
00:26:45.77\00:26:47.20
If my life is to have
children, may it glorify You,
00:26:47.24\00:26:50.61
and just giving up,
00:26:50.64\00:26:53.48
really giving up
on your own desires,
00:26:53.51\00:26:57.21
and that's what
we did, you know,
00:26:57.25\00:26:58.75
and it just
reminds me of the story
00:26:58.78\00:27:02.65
and throughout the book Empty,
00:27:02.68\00:27:05.22
it was just
really important to me
00:27:05.25\00:27:06.62
to identify with
the different people
00:27:06.65\00:27:09.09
throughout the Bible
00:27:09.12\00:27:10.46
that went through
empty experiences.
00:27:10.49\00:27:11.86
Yes, yes.
00:27:11.89\00:27:13.23
And the story about holding on
00:27:13.26\00:27:15.36
is really when Jesus
is on the Sea of Galilee,
00:27:15.40\00:27:19.17
He's there with 5000 people,
00:27:19.20\00:27:21.34
they've been there,
they're sitting on rocks,
00:27:21.37\00:27:23.00
they're sitting on ground,
but they get to hear Him.
00:27:23.04\00:27:26.91
And there they are
there all day long.
00:27:26.94\00:27:28.54
At the end of the day,
He looks at the disciples,
00:27:28.58\00:27:30.58
"Hey, you know,
these people are hungry,
00:27:30.61\00:27:32.18
what are we gonna do for dinner"
00:27:32.21\00:27:34.12
and I mean, you know,
00:27:34.15\00:27:35.48
it's like well there's, there's,
00:27:35.52\00:27:36.85
you know, we can't order out,
00:27:36.89\00:27:38.22
there's no drive through,
there's no special delivery,
00:27:38.25\00:27:40.29
you know, and yet He
says what are we going to do
00:27:40.32\00:27:43.73
and though they gave up,
00:27:43.76\00:27:45.89
Jesus knew exactly
what He was going to do.
00:27:45.93\00:27:47.73
Yes, He did.
00:27:47.76\00:27:49.10
Not only did He
feed them but get this,
00:27:49.13\00:27:51.33
He looked at the
disciples and He said,
00:27:51.37\00:27:52.87
now, I want you to go
pick up the fragments,
00:27:52.90\00:27:55.74
make sure nothing is wasted.
00:27:55.77\00:27:57.67
Wow.
00:27:57.71\00:27:59.24
And I really believe
00:27:59.27\00:28:00.61
when we're going through
empty times in our lives,
00:28:00.64\00:28:03.68
God is not asking us
to push it under the rug
00:28:03.71\00:28:05.51
and pretend like it's not there.
00:28:05.55\00:28:07.68
He is saying,
"gather the fragments,
00:28:07.72\00:28:09.95
I will waste nothing
to build and grow you."
00:28:09.98\00:28:13.22
Amen. That's right.
00:28:13.25\00:28:14.59
And that's what He does.
00:28:14.62\00:28:16.02
Twelve baskets of
fragments from an empty moment.
00:28:16.06\00:28:19.39
I know, isn't it incredible?
00:28:19.43\00:28:20.93
That's an amazing story
00:28:20.96\00:28:23.30
and so what
you're saying then is,
00:28:23.33\00:28:25.93
and this something
you mentioned before
00:28:25.97\00:28:27.30
and I want to, I want
to plug it in right here,
00:28:27.34\00:28:28.67
I think I want to use it
again before the program ends.
00:28:28.70\00:28:31.04
"When nothing is
left, God can work"
00:28:31.07\00:28:34.48
that's a statement you made,
00:28:34.51\00:28:35.84
tell us about
when nothing is left
00:28:35.88\00:28:37.71
because no child,
the mother rescinded,
00:28:37.75\00:28:41.78
then you have the hysterectomy
00:28:41.82\00:28:43.72
and then, then
you're now at this place
00:28:43.75\00:28:46.35
where you get this phone call,
00:28:46.39\00:28:47.72
you're like
intrepidation sets in.
00:28:47.76\00:28:50.46
Sure, sure.
00:28:50.49\00:28:51.83
You know, it was just...
00:28:51.86\00:28:54.43
It was just before Christmas.
00:28:54.46\00:28:57.07
And Rod and I, we just,
00:28:57.10\00:28:58.57
we were just holding
back to our emotions.
00:28:58.60\00:29:01.17
We were really asking
God, "Is this Your plan?
00:29:01.20\00:29:04.17
Is this what You want us to do?"
00:29:04.21\00:29:06.17
And we got the
call on New Year's Eve
00:29:06.21\00:29:09.41
and I said, you know,
00:29:09.44\00:29:10.85
the birth mother is on
her way to the hospital,
00:29:10.88\00:29:14.02
will you meet her there.
00:29:14.05\00:29:16.22
We said, "Yeah, we'll go.
00:29:16.25\00:29:17.59
Were you excited? We'll go.'
00:29:17.62\00:29:18.95
We were excited but
it was, it was all in,
00:29:18.99\00:29:21.36
it was all very cautious.
00:29:21.39\00:29:22.92
It really was.
00:29:22.96\00:29:24.29
And I can remember
walking into the hospital right
00:29:24.33\00:29:26.36
when Tanya was being transferred
00:29:26.39\00:29:28.46
from the delivery
room to the nursery
00:29:28.50\00:29:30.93
and, you know,
00:29:30.97\00:29:32.30
it takes all of two
seconds to fall in love.
00:29:32.33\00:29:34.77
Wow.
00:29:34.80\00:29:36.14
I fell in love
with that little girl
00:29:36.17\00:29:37.71
and I'll tell you she's,
she's a woman of God today.
00:29:37.74\00:29:41.94
She is incredible. We met her.
00:29:41.98\00:29:43.61
Yes, she is. She's a farmer.
00:29:43.65\00:29:45.31
I just love that about her.
00:29:45.35\00:29:46.68
She is herself
00:29:46.72\00:29:48.18
and she's just really a
very, very special little girl.
00:29:48.22\00:29:52.75
And Rod and I
were just so thrilled,
00:29:52.79\00:29:54.62
we just thanked God
over and over, over and over.
00:29:54.66\00:29:58.06
And mother never came back? No.
00:29:58.09\00:30:00.10
And then the
craziest thing happened.
00:30:00.13\00:30:03.87
We were coming home from church
00:30:03.90\00:30:05.83
and this doctor
followed us home.
00:30:05.87\00:30:11.17
And we pulled in our
drive, he pulled in behind us.
00:30:11.21\00:30:13.91
He said, "Rod and Donna,
I've been looking for you.
00:30:13.94\00:30:16.71
I have a baby for you."
00:30:16.75\00:30:18.08
Wait a minute. Number two.
00:30:18.11\00:30:19.45
And now you got the second. Yes.
00:30:19.48\00:30:20.82
The second. Yes, yes.
00:30:20.85\00:30:22.18
And we held up Tanya
and we said we have a baby.
00:30:22.22\00:30:24.72
She was already a baby.
00:30:24.75\00:30:26.89
And he said, "No, you need two."
00:30:26.92\00:30:29.09
And we said wow,
you know, and it's,
00:30:29.12\00:30:32.26
it's like God said I
want you to enlarge your tent.
00:30:32.29\00:30:37.00
Reset the stakes,
00:30:37.03\00:30:38.43
don't hold anything
back from your imagination.
00:30:38.47\00:30:42.34
God has bigger
plans than what we do.
00:30:42.37\00:30:45.91
And I'm not.
00:30:45.94\00:30:48.24
At that point in
life we had no idea
00:30:48.28\00:30:50.68
if we would live our whole
life without children or not
00:30:50.71\00:30:53.65
and I can tell you,
00:30:53.68\00:30:56.05
we were comfortable
with whatever God chose,
00:30:56.08\00:30:59.15
and I just really
want to share that
00:30:59.19\00:31:00.52
because not everyone
00:31:00.56\00:31:03.26
who prays for a
child has a child.
00:31:03.29\00:31:06.73
Exactly. Right.
00:31:06.76\00:31:08.36
And it's not
because God isn't listening,
00:31:08.40\00:31:11.37
it's because God has a
different path for that life
00:31:11.40\00:31:14.60
and just truly
understanding that
00:31:14.64\00:31:17.54
when you give your life to God,
00:31:17.57\00:31:19.94
everything that happens
to you is ordained by Him.
00:31:19.97\00:31:24.35
And to really, really believe
00:31:24.38\00:31:26.58
that is where you
will find your peace
00:31:26.61\00:31:30.72
and if I had four bedrooms
00:31:30.75\00:31:33.59
but I didn't have God, I
still would have been empty.
00:31:33.62\00:31:36.62
Wow, there's a
chapter you have called
00:31:36.66\00:31:38.73
"Hope delivered, "
00:31:38.76\00:31:41.03
"Hope delivered"
00:31:41.06\00:31:42.40
I mean, I'm hearing
about the delivery of this baby
00:31:42.43\00:31:44.17
and you get a phone
call, there's another one.
00:31:44.20\00:31:46.03
Another. Oh my goodness.
00:31:46.07\00:31:47.84
A little boy or girl?
00:31:47.87\00:31:49.20
Well, we have Tyler and Tania,
00:31:49.24\00:31:51.41
we're raising
them, we're so excited.
00:31:51.44\00:31:53.48
So you have two kids.
00:31:53.51\00:31:54.84
We've two and they're three,
they're three months apart.
00:31:54.88\00:31:56.85
Oh my... Boy and a girl now.
00:31:56.88\00:31:58.61
Boom, boom just like that.
00:31:58.65\00:32:00.42
And it was Christmas time
and I had been in bed with them
00:32:00.45\00:32:03.99
and I had just finished
reading the Christmas story
00:32:04.02\00:32:06.79
and, you know, Tanya says,
00:32:06.82\00:32:08.56
"Well, mommy,
were we born in a barn"
00:32:08.59\00:32:10.79
and I said no,
no, no, no, honey,
00:32:10.83\00:32:13.86
you know, and it
was at that moment
00:32:13.90\00:32:15.36
I told them that
they were adopted
00:32:15.40\00:32:17.37
and, you know, you never
know when the right time is
00:32:17.40\00:32:20.40
and you can try to
orchestrate it or whatever
00:32:20.44\00:32:22.64
but it doesn't really fit
until that moment is right
00:32:22.67\00:32:25.87
and it was right
and I shared with them,
00:32:25.91\00:32:28.78
you know, that they
were born out of love
00:32:28.81\00:32:31.15
and that they have
a very special place.
00:32:31.18\00:32:34.55
How did they take it?
00:32:34.58\00:32:36.15
Excited. Very excited.
00:32:36.18\00:32:38.72
They're five years old,
00:32:38.75\00:32:40.09
you know, they only know
who their mom and dad are.
00:32:40.12\00:32:43.26
That's right.
00:32:43.29\00:32:44.63
And I turned off the
light, left the room,
00:32:44.66\00:32:47.76
and I was right at
the top of the steps
00:32:47.80\00:32:49.90
and I could hear them
mumbling and I snuck back over.
00:32:49.93\00:32:53.94
Those two little ones were
on their knees beside their bed
00:32:53.97\00:32:57.77
and there they were
praying for a baby brother.
00:32:57.81\00:33:02.61
And now I'm in
big trouble, you know.
00:33:02.64\00:33:06.25
Because I told them, you
know, how God answers prayer
00:33:06.28\00:33:10.69
and now they're
praying with giant faith.
00:33:10.72\00:33:15.72
They're right at
the very throne of God
00:33:15.76\00:33:19.63
asking for a baby brother.
00:33:19.66\00:33:21.46
I want to throw a little twist
into this for a moment here
00:33:21.50\00:33:24.57
because I'm looking at the,
you know, the disappointment,
00:33:24.60\00:33:28.90
then hope
delivered, the silence of God.
00:33:28.94\00:33:31.87
Now you have two children.
00:33:31.91\00:33:35.44
I'll use a phrase that
almost sounds like a cliche,
00:33:35.48\00:33:38.31
was there any point that
you were waiting to exhale?
00:33:38.35\00:33:42.45
I mean, you know,
because, you know, you hold,
00:33:42.48\00:33:45.29
you're talking
about holding your breath.
00:33:45.32\00:33:47.59
Intrepidation
going to the hospital
00:33:47.62\00:33:49.06
but the moment you saw Tanya,
00:33:49.09\00:33:50.63
you fell in love
with her right away.
00:33:50.66\00:33:52.23
Did falling in love with her
00:33:52.26\00:33:54.86
make it easier to
accept the second child?
00:33:54.90\00:33:59.67
It made it,
00:33:59.70\00:34:01.04
I just saw a
bigger picture of God.
00:34:01.07\00:34:04.04
I think so many times our
picture of God is so small,
00:34:04.07\00:34:07.64
it really is,
00:34:07.68\00:34:09.24
but when He begins to
work in our life personally,
00:34:09.28\00:34:12.11
He becomes this
God of the universe,
00:34:12.15\00:34:15.95
He can do anything
00:34:15.98\00:34:18.72
and without Him
we can do nothing.
00:34:18.75\00:34:23.43
So it was,
00:34:23.46\00:34:24.79
it was just months
after Tyler and Tanya
00:34:24.83\00:34:28.20
began praying for a baby brother
00:34:28.23\00:34:30.90
that we got this phone call.
00:34:30.93\00:34:33.37
An answered
prayer. And it was oh-oh.
00:34:33.40\00:34:35.24
It was a oh-oh moment,
yeah and the physician said,
00:34:35.27\00:34:38.91
"Donna, I need you to get
Rod on the other line too,
00:34:38.94\00:34:41.21
I need to talk to both of you,"
00:34:41.24\00:34:42.58
so I knew there was
something serious coming on
00:34:42.61\00:34:45.45
and Rod got on the other line,
00:34:45.48\00:34:47.02
he said look I wasn't supposed
to be on call last night
00:34:47.05\00:34:49.88
someone else in the group was.
00:34:49.92\00:34:52.59
The call came in and
I told the dispatcher,
00:34:52.62\00:34:54.69
I'm not on call
get someone else,
00:34:54.72\00:34:56.99
I tried to go back
to sleep I couldn't,
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.79
and it was at that time
I went into the hospital
00:34:58.83\00:35:01.30
I walked in and
delivered a baby,
00:35:01.33\00:35:05.57
and the birth
mother looked up and said,
00:35:05.60\00:35:08.37
"Do you know of anyone
that would take this baby?"
00:35:08.40\00:35:11.94
And he said, "I sure do."
00:35:11.97\00:35:15.48
And, you know, he too
00:35:15.51\00:35:17.15
where he is part of
the church that we went to
00:35:17.18\00:35:19.75
and I just think
it's so important
00:35:19.78\00:35:21.55
to share your
pain and your emptiness
00:35:21.58\00:35:26.39
with those members
of your church family
00:35:26.42\00:35:29.92
because God will use
them to orchestrate your life
00:35:29.96\00:35:35.10
and he is this physician
00:35:35.13\00:35:37.97
and he
delivered little Brockton,
00:35:38.00\00:35:40.57
and Rod and I,
and Tyler and Tania,
00:35:40.60\00:35:43.20
we rushed to the
hospital and there was Brock,
00:35:43.24\00:35:47.91
such a perfect
sweet little baby boy.
00:35:47.94\00:35:50.91
He is the really
outgoing one, right?
00:35:50.95\00:35:53.11
He is very outgoing.
00:35:53.15\00:35:54.95
He's a clone of
Rod, that's what he is.
00:35:54.98\00:35:57.45
So he's just a
real, real sweetheart.
00:35:57.49\00:36:00.62
Now, Brock is the younger one?
00:36:00.66\00:36:02.69
Brock would be the third one.
00:36:02.72\00:36:04.06
Right the taller one? No.
00:36:04.09\00:36:05.83
The middle, middle
one. I'm not there yet.
00:36:05.86\00:36:08.16
Okay. Brock is the middle one.
00:36:08.20\00:36:10.47
He is the middle one but again,
00:36:10.50\00:36:11.83
you know, our
life is so foreword,
00:36:11.87\00:36:13.87
so thankful, we're so happy.
00:36:13.90\00:36:16.60
That's right.
00:36:16.64\00:36:17.97
And 15 months
later God wasn't done.
00:36:18.01\00:36:24.25
And we get another phone call
00:36:24.28\00:36:26.58
and it was just a few months
00:36:26.61\00:36:27.95
after that we
brought Bryce home.
00:36:27.98\00:36:29.72
Bryce, that's the one.
00:36:29.75\00:36:31.09
And there's our three
sons and our one daughter
00:36:31.12\00:36:34.86
and God just, He
made us a family,
00:36:34.89\00:36:38.76
you know, there's
no blood relationship
00:36:38.79\00:36:41.66
but, wow, they call me they say
00:36:41.70\00:36:43.63
we're brothers
from a different mother,
00:36:43.67\00:36:45.13
you know, and the boys
have a really great time with it
00:36:45.17\00:36:48.10
and we're real family.
00:36:48.14\00:36:51.07
And Friday nights at your
house is so special, isn't it?
00:36:51.11\00:36:54.44
It is.
00:36:54.48\00:36:55.81
Friday night has
always been family night
00:36:55.84\00:36:58.01
and this comes from
00:36:58.05\00:36:59.38
my husband's side of the family.
00:36:59.41\00:37:01.38
It's always Mexican
food on Friday night
00:37:01.42\00:37:03.99
and that's, that's very special
00:37:04.02\00:37:06.79
and we just enjoy
it so much together.
00:37:06.82\00:37:09.46
We had a chance to sit down
and enjoy that Mexican food,
00:37:09.49\00:37:12.03
it's not just
basic Mexican food,
00:37:12.06\00:37:13.46
I mean, it's just...
00:37:13.50\00:37:14.83
You guys really go all out
00:37:14.86\00:37:16.46
and when we sat at
the nice big table,
00:37:16.50\00:37:20.34
warm atmosphere,
00:37:20.37\00:37:22.37
I mean, we could see the
as you walked through the...
00:37:22.40\00:37:24.37
All her children, grandchildren.
00:37:24.41\00:37:26.81
Go ahead, hon. That's right.
00:37:26.84\00:37:28.24
As you walk
through the chronology
00:37:28.28\00:37:29.61
of everybody
sitting at the table
00:37:29.64\00:37:31.68
and you think they all are
00:37:31.71\00:37:34.65
totally
comfortable with each other.
00:37:34.68\00:37:37.82
They grew up in...
00:37:37.85\00:37:39.25
And I want to add this
00:37:39.29\00:37:40.62
because I had some brought over.
00:37:40.66\00:37:42.22
Each of us has a
similar story in some sense.
00:37:42.26\00:37:44.39
How old were you
when your dad passed away?
00:37:44.43\00:37:45.93
I was three so it
was empty for me also
00:37:45.96\00:37:48.66
when I lost my
dad of a heart attack
00:37:48.70\00:37:52.03
and my mother was
left to raise eight of us,
00:37:52.07\00:37:55.20
all on her own,
one mother one father,
00:37:55.24\00:37:57.61
eight of us and then you, honey.
00:37:57.64\00:37:59.94
Yeah, I was left at a
babysitter three months old
00:37:59.97\00:38:02.41
with my sister
at three years old,
00:38:02.44\00:38:04.58
not even knowing my mom
and dad were not on the scene.
00:38:04.61\00:38:07.62
And your story,
John, is just so amazing.
00:38:07.65\00:38:12.85
You could have been
00:38:12.89\00:38:14.22
stuck in that empty
place your whole life
00:38:14.26\00:38:17.49
but you reached out,
you reached beyond that,
00:38:17.53\00:38:19.93
you refused to
be in the POW camp
00:38:19.96\00:38:24.07
and that's what
it takes, you know,
00:38:24.10\00:38:26.53
as Christians
we need to be wise,
00:38:26.57\00:38:28.80
we need to stand up and say,
00:38:28.84\00:38:31.04
God has given me the authority
00:38:31.07\00:38:33.58
to trample on
scorpions and serpents.
00:38:33.61\00:38:37.45
You have no
power over me, Satan.
00:38:37.48\00:38:40.48
And I'm out of here,
00:38:40.52\00:38:41.85
I'm not gonna be
a part of your camp.
00:38:41.88\00:38:44.29
And to step out
of that POW camp,
00:38:44.32\00:38:46.86
I mean, my story
is about a lost child,
00:38:46.89\00:38:49.16
your story is
about a lost father,
00:38:49.19\00:38:50.93
your story is
about lost parents,
00:38:50.96\00:38:52.96
we all go through
these seasons of loss
00:38:52.99\00:38:56.97
and it reminds me
of the story of Hagar,
00:38:57.00\00:38:59.93
I mean, think about...
00:38:59.97\00:39:01.30
Yes, you have a chapter in here,
00:39:01.34\00:39:02.67
you talk, you talk about it.
00:39:02.70\00:39:04.04
I do, I do and you
think about Abraham,
00:39:04.07\00:39:06.11
you know, packing her
with a little knapsack of food
00:39:06.14\00:39:09.38
and one bottle
of water and so long
00:39:09.41\00:39:12.71
and out to the desert she goes.
00:39:12.75\00:39:15.18
And it's interesting
00:39:15.22\00:39:16.55
because just as God
counts every sand in the desert,
00:39:16.58\00:39:21.06
every little
piece of sand grain,
00:39:21.09\00:39:25.03
He counts every tear and
He saw the tears of Hagar
00:39:25.06\00:39:30.20
and it was like, you know what,
00:39:30.23\00:39:31.63
man gave you a bottle of water
but I'm gonna give you a well.
00:39:31.67\00:39:34.90
That's right. Amen. I like that.
00:39:34.94\00:39:37.07
I'm gonna give you a well.
00:39:37.11\00:39:38.64
And that's how it was, I mean,
00:39:38.67\00:39:40.01
like maybe I
could have had a child,
00:39:40.04\00:39:42.04
but I couldn't
have had these four.
00:39:42.08\00:39:43.68
That's right.
Amen, and I like that.
00:39:43.71\00:39:45.78
No way. Not those.
00:39:45.81\00:39:47.48
They were
chosen. They really were.
00:39:47.52\00:39:50.45
And those are the
stories that I believe,
00:39:50.49\00:39:54.36
God put those
stories in the Word,
00:39:54.39\00:39:57.76
so that we could
understand what to do
00:39:57.79\00:40:00.63
when we're going
through seasons of emptiness
00:40:00.66\00:40:03.40
and, you know,
00:40:03.43\00:40:04.77
just walking through
the streets of Jerusalem
00:40:04.80\00:40:07.04
and I can remember
when we were there,
00:40:07.07\00:40:09.37
were you guys
there on that trip?
00:40:09.40\00:40:10.74
We didn't go to that one.
00:40:10.77\00:40:12.11
Took a trip through,
00:40:12.14\00:40:13.48
I can remember just
being down the Via Dolorosa,
00:40:13.51\00:40:16.04
you know it's
changed since Jesus was there
00:40:16.08\00:40:18.45
but, but you still,
you still have a good feel
00:40:18.48\00:40:21.78
of what was going on and
I could envision that woman
00:40:21.82\00:40:25.72
just reaching as He's passing,
00:40:25.75\00:40:29.89
if I can just touch
the hem of His garment
00:40:29.92\00:40:33.43
and you think about it,
00:40:33.46\00:40:36.50
she was the only one
that was healed that day.
00:40:36.53\00:40:39.53
And there were a
lot of people there.
00:40:39.57\00:40:40.90
Yeah.
00:40:40.94\00:40:42.27
Because she was
reaching for Him.
00:40:42.30\00:40:44.14
You made a point here,
00:40:44.17\00:40:45.51
empty can be the best place
00:40:45.54\00:40:46.88
for one who is
searching for fullness of life.
00:40:46.91\00:40:51.61
Tell us about how important
it is to empty ourselves,
00:40:51.65\00:40:55.72
to empty ourselves
00:40:55.75\00:40:57.09
because you talked about
the different kinds of empty.
00:40:57.12\00:40:59.39
Some people,
00:40:59.42\00:41:00.76
I think the way you were saying,
00:41:00.79\00:41:02.12
we talked about this
00:41:02.16\00:41:03.49
and we're so
comfortable with you, Donna,
00:41:03.53\00:41:05.96
we're letting
you tell your story
00:41:05.99\00:41:07.73
but there's
somebody who may say,
00:41:07.76\00:41:10.07
you know, I have children
but my life is still empty.
00:41:10.10\00:41:14.10
Somebody may say, I
just got a promotion
00:41:14.14\00:41:16.20
just hit that six
figure level of life,
00:41:16.24\00:41:19.81
and why do I feel so empty?
00:41:19.84\00:41:22.04
Talk about why that
emptiness is there for people
00:41:22.08\00:41:24.05
that may be in
different categories?
00:41:24.08\00:41:25.75
Sure, and I would,
00:41:25.78\00:41:27.38
I would take you
right back to this book
00:41:27.42\00:41:31.45
because when we
have the wealthiest,
00:41:31.49\00:41:34.36
the greatest king of
Israel who had it all,
00:41:34.39\00:41:38.66
to say I have
nothing and I feel empty,
00:41:38.69\00:41:41.70
we need to really take note.
00:41:41.73\00:41:43.80
We need to especially
00:41:43.83\00:41:45.17
as Christians or pre-Christians,
00:41:45.20\00:41:47.80
we need to take a
step back and say why is,
00:41:47.84\00:41:51.71
why is he
calling his life empty,
00:41:51.74\00:41:53.81
it's because
without God, it is so empty.
00:41:53.84\00:41:57.45
There's nothing to live for.
00:41:57.48\00:41:59.21
And if I had 10
children but I didn't have God,
00:41:59.25\00:42:03.18
what could I give them.
00:42:03.22\00:42:04.55
Right.
00:42:04.59\00:42:05.92
Really what could I give them?
I would have nothing to offer.
00:42:05.95\00:42:10.39
And so I think that's
where we begin to understand
00:42:10.43\00:42:16.23
that God deals with
us in terms of eternity
00:42:16.26\00:42:21.27
and that six figure income,
00:42:21.30\00:42:23.44
it has nothing
to do with eternity.
00:42:23.47\00:42:24.97
That's right. Nothing.
00:42:25.01\00:42:27.81
However when we lose it
all and we're totally empty,
00:42:27.84\00:42:31.91
it is then that we
say, "God, I can't do this,
00:42:31.95\00:42:35.98
I couldn't, I
couldn't make a family happen,
00:42:36.02\00:42:39.55
there's nothing I
could do about it."
00:42:39.59\00:42:40.92
That's right. Good point.
00:42:40.96\00:42:42.29
Yeah, but God could. Yes.
00:42:42.32\00:42:44.19
And when we
come to those places,
00:42:44.23\00:42:46.96
that's when we
will feel the fullness
00:42:47.00\00:42:50.30
that we can feel
here on this earth.
00:42:50.33\00:42:53.60
Everything's done in the,
you know, the eyes of eternity.
00:42:53.64\00:42:57.67
That's right.
00:42:57.71\00:42:59.04
Now, these children
what in life they have?
00:42:59.07\00:43:02.18
Tell us about them,
what are they today?
00:43:02.21\00:43:05.28
Well, we have two
little granddaughters
00:43:05.31\00:43:07.45
that we absolutely adore
00:43:07.48\00:43:09.92
and our oldest son Tyler
and his beautiful wife, Kate,
00:43:09.95\00:43:14.52
they live in
Britain Harbor, Michigan
00:43:14.56\00:43:17.96
and he has his MBA
00:43:17.99\00:43:20.43
and he's working on a couple
of hospitals and clinics there
00:43:20.46\00:43:24.60
and then our son Brockton
00:43:24.63\00:43:26.63
and his beautiful
little wife Brooke
00:43:26.67\00:43:28.87
that they need a
baby right away, you know,
00:43:28.90\00:43:32.47
but they don't have one yet.
00:43:32.51\00:43:35.64
He just finished as a dentist
and he's practicing in Peoria
00:43:35.68\00:43:41.12
but they'll be moving
on to Michigan, I'm sure.
00:43:41.15\00:43:43.89
And then our son Bryce,
00:43:43.92\00:43:47.06
he is at home and
he is still in school
00:43:47.09\00:43:51.23
and of course
our daughter, Tanya
00:43:51.26\00:43:52.59
I talked about her
earlier she's a farmer
00:43:52.63\00:43:55.06
and she takes
care of me very much
00:43:55.10\00:43:58.17
with all sorts of good herbs
00:43:58.20\00:44:00.50
and all the things
I'm supposed to eat.
00:44:00.54\00:44:01.87
Wow.
00:44:01.90\00:44:03.24
And you have a good
relationship with all of them,
00:44:03.27\00:44:04.94
but I love the
relationship with Tanya,
00:44:04.97\00:44:06.78
your daughter, as I,
00:44:06.81\00:44:08.51
when I see you mingle
with her and you connect,
00:44:08.54\00:44:11.81
it's so beautiful to see
00:44:11.85\00:44:13.18
the
mother-daughter relationship.
00:44:13.21\00:44:15.22
She is her own person
and I just really love that,
00:44:15.25\00:44:19.42
but you know, I
asked each of the kids
00:44:19.45\00:44:22.26
to write
something about the book
00:44:22.29\00:44:24.73
and so each of
them did an introduction
00:44:24.76\00:44:27.63
and what my emptiness,
00:44:27.66\00:44:30.63
what my and Rod's
emptiness meant to them,
00:44:30.67\00:44:34.10
because without us being empty
00:44:34.14\00:44:35.60
they would have never
been a part of our family.
00:44:35.64\00:44:38.41
And again when you,
when you take a step back
00:44:38.44\00:44:40.44
and you just look at it,
00:44:40.48\00:44:41.88
look at how God
is orchestrating,
00:44:41.91\00:44:44.98
all of these pieces,
all of these fragments,
00:44:45.01\00:44:47.98
all of these empty bottles,
00:44:48.02\00:44:49.75
God is orchestrating all of it
00:44:49.78\00:44:52.65
so that we can grow for eternity
00:44:52.69\00:44:54.92
and live eternity with them.
00:44:54.96\00:44:56.29
I love it.
00:44:56.32\00:44:57.66
Now, Donna, we
went through the rooms,
00:44:57.69\00:44:59.03
the bedrooms of your children
00:44:59.06\00:45:01.00
and you have on
the wall what is it?
00:45:01.03\00:45:03.80
Something they wrote
when they were little?
00:45:03.83\00:45:06.03
Tell us about that?
00:45:06.07\00:45:07.40
Well, I wrote
something about each of them
00:45:07.44\00:45:11.17
when they
graduated from high school
00:45:11.21\00:45:13.74
because that's such
a big turning point.
00:45:13.78\00:45:15.54
Pivotal point in life, yeah.
00:45:15.58\00:45:17.45
And just how God had
worked in their lives,
00:45:17.48\00:45:20.35
and just to keep,
I wanted it engraved
00:45:20.38\00:45:23.35
so it would be remembered,
it wouldn't be thrown away
00:45:23.39\00:45:26.96
and I'm sure
someday they'll have it,
00:45:26.99\00:45:29.49
they'll have that
in their own homes.
00:45:29.52\00:45:32.26
And so it's the personal touch
is not just in the relationship
00:45:32.29\00:45:35.93
you have with each of
them when they come home
00:45:35.96\00:45:38.50
it's a, it's like an
Ebenezer, I remember when.
00:45:38.53\00:45:41.24
It is.
00:45:41.27\00:45:42.60
And it's important for us
to remember those moments,
00:45:42.64\00:45:44.74
you know, when people
forget where they were,
00:45:44.77\00:45:50.05
they cannot
appreciate where they are.
00:45:50.08\00:45:52.08
Exactly.
00:45:52.11\00:45:53.45
And as you look back on it,
00:45:53.48\00:45:54.98
we all have these
moments in our lives,
00:45:55.02\00:45:56.38
I mean, everybody
watching the program
00:45:56.42\00:45:57.85
or listen to the
program in your car
00:45:57.89\00:45:59.22
wherever you may be.
00:45:59.25\00:46:00.99
You might have those
moments where you say,
00:46:01.02\00:46:03.53
"I remember when,"
and then there are people
00:46:03.56\00:46:05.46
that are in the
beginning of their journey,
00:46:05.49\00:46:07.53
you have something here called
the Secrets for the Journey,
00:46:07.56\00:46:11.73
because the
journey is not an easy one
00:46:11.77\00:46:13.64
and you might be
in a journey right now
00:46:13.67\00:46:15.34
and you might say, wow, I
can't wait till my day comes
00:46:15.37\00:46:17.61
when I could have
the exhaling moment,
00:46:17.64\00:46:20.38
or the "Hope delivered" moment
00:46:20.41\00:46:22.51
that Donna's
talking about today.
00:46:22.54\00:46:24.38
Talk about the
secrets for the journey
00:46:24.41\00:46:26.41
because you know
you are excited now,
00:46:26.45\00:46:28.52
you're happy, your
children are fulfilled,
00:46:28.55\00:46:30.72
God is prospering
you in a wonderful way
00:46:30.75\00:46:32.45
ministry wise and business wise,
00:46:32.49\00:46:35.19
but just talk about
the secrets for the journey
00:46:35.22\00:46:37.06
because somebody is
in the journey right now.
00:46:37.09\00:46:39.26
They are, and you
know, I appreciate that,
00:46:39.29\00:46:41.30
and again I just, I
just want to impress.
00:46:41.33\00:46:44.90
I don't know why God
orchestrated our lives
00:46:44.93\00:46:47.14
the way He did, I
don't know, I don't know.
00:46:47.17\00:46:50.24
I know that God
works in many lives
00:46:50.27\00:46:53.27
regardless of what
the outcome appears to be.
00:46:53.31\00:46:56.81
And I don't know why the secret
things belong only to God,
00:46:56.85\00:47:01.82
I don't know why,
00:47:01.85\00:47:03.28
but when I think about
making it through the journey
00:47:03.32\00:47:07.02
whether what you're hoping
for is delivered to you or not,
00:47:07.06\00:47:12.79
making it through the journey
00:47:12.83\00:47:14.16
is all about
giving up on yourself.
00:47:14.20\00:47:16.93
Wow, wow.
00:47:16.97\00:47:18.30
And when we
give up on ourselves,
00:47:18.33\00:47:20.50
that goes back
to that empty spot.
00:47:20.54\00:47:23.10
As long as we're full, we
like that six figure number,
00:47:23.14\00:47:26.57
we like whatever,
00:47:26.61\00:47:28.64
as long as we
feel full with that,
00:47:28.68\00:47:32.71
there's no reason,
there's no place for God.
00:47:32.75\00:47:34.78
Well, Jesus said that
to the religious leaders,
00:47:34.82\00:47:37.15
He said, "If you are
sick I could heal you,
00:47:37.19\00:47:40.32
but since you
say you're not sick
00:47:40.36\00:47:41.69
I can't do anything for you."
00:47:41.72\00:47:43.29
Wow, that's a significant
point so you're saying,
00:47:43.32\00:47:46.26
when we recognize
00:47:46.29\00:47:47.83
that we have to get to
the place of our need of God
00:47:47.86\00:47:51.70
before we can
experience God, is that,
00:47:51.73\00:47:53.80
could I translate it that way?
00:47:53.84\00:47:55.17
Absolutely.
00:47:55.20\00:47:56.54
Thank you for
putting those words together
00:47:56.57\00:47:57.91
much better than I did.
00:47:57.94\00:48:01.04
I believe Jesus Christ
is coming back very soon.
00:48:01.08\00:48:04.48
Oh, yeah. Amen, that's right.
00:48:04.51\00:48:05.85
That's a fact.
00:48:05.88\00:48:07.22
And I really believe it's
time that we as Christians
00:48:07.25\00:48:09.75
become very wise Christians,
00:48:09.78\00:48:12.72
what we do with our time,
what we do with our resources,
00:48:12.75\00:48:16.16
what we do with our gifts,
00:48:16.19\00:48:17.96
it matters now more
than it ever has before.
00:48:17.99\00:48:21.06
That's right.
00:48:21.10\00:48:22.43
And this is a
little off the subject,
00:48:22.46\00:48:24.60
but it's all about eternity.
00:48:24.63\00:48:26.13
That's right. So let's go there.
00:48:26.17\00:48:28.04
You know, when I think about
00:48:28.07\00:48:30.84
what happened in that upper room
00:48:30.87\00:48:32.67
because we know as Christians,
00:48:32.71\00:48:36.31
we know what we need
more than anything right now
00:48:36.34\00:48:38.81
is an outpouring
of the Holy Spirit.
00:48:38.85\00:48:42.05
And when I think about
what those disciples did,
00:48:42.08\00:48:43.95
they went back
to that upper room
00:48:43.99\00:48:45.49
and what did they do?
00:48:45.52\00:48:46.86
They studied scripture,
they studied prophecy,
00:48:46.89\00:48:50.36
they looked back and
they said what did we miss,
00:48:50.39\00:48:53.36
why didn't we
really know the Son of God
00:48:53.40\00:48:56.73
who was eating with us,
who was walking beside us,
00:48:56.77\00:48:59.47
who was with us all that time.
00:48:59.50\00:49:01.00
We didn't recognize Him
00:49:01.04\00:49:02.57
because we didn't
understand prophecy,
00:49:02.60\00:49:05.24
so when I make the appeal
that now is the time to study
00:49:05.27\00:49:09.94
and understand
prophecy like never before,
00:49:09.98\00:49:13.08
now is the time
00:49:13.11\00:49:14.72
because what's about to happen
00:49:14.75\00:49:18.72
has everything
to do with eternity.
00:49:18.75\00:49:20.66
Wow. That's our word, isn't it?
00:49:20.69\00:49:22.96
That's our
phrase. Eternity in view.
00:49:22.99\00:49:25.53
We live with
eternity in view. Yeah.
00:49:25.56\00:49:27.96
That's our theme for
this year as a couple.
00:49:28.00\00:49:31.57
And, you know, our
theme at our little church
00:49:31.60\00:49:34.40
is the year of the wind.
00:49:34.44\00:49:37.07
And just asking God for
that Holy Spirit continuously
00:49:37.11\00:49:41.34
and I have to put this in there
00:49:41.38\00:49:42.74
our mission
statement for our family is
00:49:42.78\00:49:46.08
"Heaven Together
Whatever It Takes".
00:49:46.11\00:49:50.12
You guys, we've got
to say this to those
00:49:50.15\00:49:53.52
who are part of
the program, listening,
00:49:53.56\00:49:55.06
we were driving
with Rod in the car
00:49:55.09\00:49:57.33
and Rod called his Donna.
00:49:57.36\00:50:00.16
He called you, her
husband called her.
00:50:00.20\00:50:01.80
Oh, yeah, I love this.
00:50:01.83\00:50:03.16
He said, pass me my
phone and I said, he said,
00:50:03.20\00:50:06.03
"Love of my life"
he had on his phone,
00:50:06.07\00:50:08.70
and that we found you have
on your phone love of my life
00:50:08.74\00:50:10.87
and we said,
"Could we steal that?"
00:50:10.91\00:50:12.84
So we have in our phone.
00:50:12.87\00:50:14.21
So when I call Angie, I
say, "Call of my life, Angela."
00:50:14.24\00:50:17.25
Call love of my life, John.
00:50:17.28\00:50:18.95
And the phone rings
and we never forget.
00:50:18.98\00:50:22.88
And we have this
other thing we do.
00:50:22.92\00:50:24.89
Together for ever. It's great.
00:50:24.92\00:50:28.02
So with the eternity
in view, together forever,
00:50:28.06\00:50:30.66
God is just an
amazing God and I know
00:50:30.69\00:50:32.59
as you listen to the program
this book Empty, once again,
00:50:32.63\00:50:35.26
I would like to remind you,
00:50:35.30\00:50:37.43
we're gonna let you
know in just a moment
00:50:37.47\00:50:38.80
how you can invite Donna,
00:50:38.83\00:50:40.24
and I'm sure she should be
glad to bring Rod with her...
00:50:40.27\00:50:42.54
Oh, yeah.
Wherever she's invited.
00:50:42.57\00:50:44.67
Donna is a gifted
woman of God all by herself.
00:50:44.71\00:50:46.41
She's been all over Australia.
00:50:46.44\00:50:47.84
Been all over and traveled
quite a bit and sure Australia.
00:50:47.88\00:50:49.94
Yeah.
00:50:49.98\00:50:51.31
And this book is one
00:50:51.35\00:50:53.21
that will be able to
take you to those places
00:50:53.25\00:50:57.22
and what I like
about this is Donna hasn't,
00:50:57.25\00:51:00.16
you didn't just spend
the time telling your story
00:51:00.19\00:51:03.12
but you went down that
path of people in scripture
00:51:03.16\00:51:07.76
that had these empty
places in their lives
00:51:07.80\00:51:10.90
and what this says to me
00:51:10.93\00:51:12.40
is it's not unique for
us to have empty places
00:51:12.43\00:51:15.77
because every one of us
00:51:15.80\00:51:18.57
without Jesus is an empty place.
00:51:18.61\00:51:20.84
Every one of us
without God is an empty place.
00:51:20.88\00:51:24.55
The other thing,
00:51:27.85\00:51:29.18
spiritual prisoner
of war camp overflows
00:51:29.22\00:51:31.55
with the
heartbroken and the battered.
00:51:31.59\00:51:34.52
We're gonna take a brief
break here for our news break
00:51:34.56\00:51:37.93
but on the other side of that
00:51:37.96\00:51:40.20
this is the
address that you need
00:51:40.23\00:51:41.56
just before we
go to our news break
00:51:41.60\00:51:42.93
so you can invite Donna Willey
00:51:42.96\00:51:44.97
to come and to
share this wonderful story
00:51:45.00\00:51:47.80
of how to be filled
when your life is empty.
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If you would like to learn more
about Donna Willey's ministry
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or purchase one of her books,
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you can visit her
online at DonnaWilley.com.
00:51:56.78\00:52:00.38
That's DonnaWilley.com.
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